1 00:00:15,276 --> 00:00:23,396 Speaker 1: Pushkin. A little content warning. We get into some descriptions 2 00:00:23,436 --> 00:00:26,676 Speaker 1: of throwing up in this episode, so if Barf's not 3 00:00:26,756 --> 00:00:30,636 Speaker 1: your jam, keep that in mind when listening. Okay, onwards, 4 00:00:36,636 --> 00:00:42,636 Speaker 1: I have to give my dog a peanut butter treat 5 00:00:42,876 --> 00:00:46,196 Speaker 1: so that she doesn't bark the entire time I'm on 6 00:00:46,236 --> 00:00:51,356 Speaker 1: this call, which is what is it? It's the second 7 00:00:51,556 --> 00:00:58,156 Speaker 1: meetup of the DC Women's Autism or something. I don't know, 8 00:00:58,716 --> 00:01:02,556 Speaker 1: really good grasp of the details there, Lauren. Anyway, I 9 00:01:02,716 --> 00:01:06,156 Speaker 1: wanted to dip my toe in the wider autism community 10 00:01:06,236 --> 00:01:10,236 Speaker 1: and maybe even make some okay one an autistic friend, 11 00:01:10,876 --> 00:01:13,076 Speaker 1: and this group seemed like a good enough place for 12 00:01:13,116 --> 00:01:16,796 Speaker 1: me to start. I mean, I am a DC area 13 00:01:16,956 --> 00:01:20,476 Speaker 1: autistic lady person, so why not see what they're all about? 14 00:01:21,196 --> 00:01:26,196 Speaker 1: Except there was one snag. I actually hate joining things, 15 00:01:28,756 --> 00:01:30,716 Speaker 1: but I figure, if I don't have to keep my 16 00:01:30,876 --> 00:01:40,036 Speaker 1: camera on, you know, then I feel more comfortable. Obviously 17 00:01:40,276 --> 00:01:43,276 Speaker 1: I'm babbling into my voice memos. But then maybe a 18 00:01:43,316 --> 00:01:45,196 Speaker 1: lot of people won't turn their cameras on because they 19 00:01:45,236 --> 00:01:47,276 Speaker 1: feel the same as I do. And then it's like, well, 20 00:01:47,276 --> 00:01:50,076 Speaker 1: why don't we just have a conference call? Okay, so 21 00:01:50,356 --> 00:01:54,396 Speaker 1: already I have a bad attitude mostly born of anxiety. 22 00:01:54,796 --> 00:01:56,796 Speaker 1: But if I was going to live in the real 23 00:01:56,796 --> 00:02:00,556 Speaker 1: world and not some fantasy autism pleasant phil, I needed 24 00:02:00,596 --> 00:02:03,356 Speaker 1: to meet some folks like me, and this group seemed 25 00:02:03,356 --> 00:02:07,116 Speaker 1: like a low pressure effort at the time. Oh my god, 26 00:02:07,116 --> 00:02:12,676 Speaker 1: I'm one minute late. I'm always oh so who cares? All? Right? 27 00:02:12,836 --> 00:02:21,196 Speaker 1: Clicking in he we have buses, Yes, Alexandre, we had 28 00:02:21,236 --> 00:02:23,276 Speaker 1: to dash bus. I know there's a buses. When the 29 00:02:23,356 --> 00:02:26,756 Speaker 1: zoom screen opened to a bunch of strangers and little squares, 30 00:02:26,956 --> 00:02:29,596 Speaker 1: folks who were already engaging in some idle chit chat 31 00:02:30,196 --> 00:02:34,156 Speaker 1: about public transit right off the bat, I felt squirmy. 32 00:02:35,076 --> 00:02:38,676 Speaker 1: It's very common among artistic people not to drive. Yes, 33 00:02:39,436 --> 00:02:42,876 Speaker 1: very common. Okay, well, I love driving and my parallel 34 00:02:42,916 --> 00:02:48,396 Speaker 1: parking skills are beyond reproach. Oh I can't do it. 35 00:02:49,156 --> 00:02:52,076 Speaker 1: I left the zoom room without ever talking or showing 36 00:02:52,076 --> 00:02:55,916 Speaker 1: my face. It was a total bust. I tried. I 37 00:02:55,996 --> 00:03:02,196 Speaker 1: gave it what three minutes before I bail. It's not terrible, 38 00:03:05,036 --> 00:03:08,116 Speaker 1: it's not great, But I could have not shown up 39 00:03:08,156 --> 00:03:12,036 Speaker 1: at all. Yes, here's the thing, though, These types of 40 00:03:12,076 --> 00:03:15,876 Speaker 1: situations are my private hell, a group where the connection 41 00:03:15,956 --> 00:03:19,476 Speaker 1: is tenuous because it's based on some sort of broad identity. 42 00:03:20,196 --> 00:03:23,356 Speaker 1: No thank you, like I don't relate to all Gingers 43 00:03:23,356 --> 00:03:25,196 Speaker 1: just because none of us look good in the color 44 00:03:25,276 --> 00:03:27,716 Speaker 1: red and we all have to wear long sleeves at 45 00:03:27,716 --> 00:03:30,636 Speaker 1: the beach. But I was trying to keep an open mind. 46 00:03:30,956 --> 00:03:34,236 Speaker 1: I really wanted to know autistic people, even if the 47 00:03:34,316 --> 00:03:38,956 Speaker 1: effort came with a slight cost. But I bailed. Clearly 48 00:03:38,996 --> 00:03:42,676 Speaker 1: the cost was higher than I anticipated. Now I want 49 00:03:42,716 --> 00:03:46,996 Speaker 1: to be absolutely crystalline. This is not about the group. 50 00:03:47,476 --> 00:03:50,956 Speaker 1: I'm so glad that it exists and that it provides 51 00:03:51,036 --> 00:03:54,276 Speaker 1: some kind of comfort and joy and connection to the 52 00:03:54,316 --> 00:03:58,156 Speaker 1: people who participate. Really I do. This is not me 53 00:03:58,316 --> 00:04:01,876 Speaker 1: yucking their yum. This is actually me mad at myself 54 00:04:01,956 --> 00:04:05,676 Speaker 1: for not getting into it. I'm frustrated that my social 55 00:04:05,716 --> 00:04:08,716 Speaker 1: anxiety and my fear of joining make it really hard 56 00:04:08,796 --> 00:04:11,276 Speaker 1: for me to feel like I fit in, not just 57 00:04:11,356 --> 00:04:14,556 Speaker 1: here in this zoom room, but like in life. But 58 00:04:14,916 --> 00:04:17,716 Speaker 1: if I want other autistic people in my orbit, if 59 00:04:17,716 --> 00:04:21,836 Speaker 1: I want friends who have this particular shared experience, I'm 60 00:04:21,876 --> 00:04:25,036 Speaker 1: gonna have to get over myself, or at least tighten 61 00:04:25,116 --> 00:04:28,236 Speaker 1: up my friend making skills. Plot out a BFF strategy 62 00:04:28,436 --> 00:04:32,236 Speaker 1: and implemented step by step. So that's what I'm going 63 00:04:32,316 --> 00:04:35,676 Speaker 1: to do with the assistance of a millennial self help book, 64 00:04:36,036 --> 00:04:40,276 Speaker 1: a neurodivergent psychiatrist friend, and a handful of willing autistic 65 00:04:40,316 --> 00:04:43,956 Speaker 1: guinea pigs. But not like pet guinea pigs who are autistic. 66 00:04:44,516 --> 00:04:53,396 Speaker 1: You know what I mean. You're listening to the Loudest 67 00:04:53,436 --> 00:04:56,836 Speaker 1: Girl in the World. Who is not that one drunk 68 00:04:56,916 --> 00:05:00,236 Speaker 1: lady cheering at the baseball game. It's me, Lauren Obert. 69 00:05:01,076 --> 00:05:03,116 Speaker 1: The Loudest Girl in the World is a show about 70 00:05:03,156 --> 00:05:06,676 Speaker 1: finding yourself broken in a pretty dark place and emerging 71 00:05:06,716 --> 00:05:09,716 Speaker 1: from that place a mostly glued back together our person. 72 00:05:18,396 --> 00:05:21,076 Speaker 1: I'm a person who likes to solve my own problems. 73 00:05:21,516 --> 00:05:26,116 Speaker 1: For example, recently, after some gnarly dental surgery, I figured 74 00:05:26,156 --> 00:05:28,556 Speaker 1: I could fix the issue of a giant piece of 75 00:05:28,596 --> 00:05:31,596 Speaker 1: bone protruding from my lower jaw with some two dollars 76 00:05:31,716 --> 00:05:35,916 Speaker 1: orthodontic wax from CVS, rather than take one more useless 77 00:05:35,956 --> 00:05:39,756 Speaker 1: tail and all. My girlfriend regularly marvels at my ability 78 00:05:39,796 --> 00:05:42,356 Speaker 1: to come up with fixes for problems she didn't even 79 00:05:42,396 --> 00:05:46,196 Speaker 1: know could be solved. What can I say, I'm solutions oriented, 80 00:05:46,956 --> 00:05:49,436 Speaker 1: And so it was that I found myself at the 81 00:05:49,476 --> 00:05:52,196 Speaker 1: main branch of the DC Public Library looking for a 82 00:05:52,236 --> 00:05:58,596 Speaker 1: book on how to make friends use old do it does? 83 00:05:58,676 --> 00:06:04,156 Speaker 1: Some more skills here, some like panting, like was he 84 00:06:04,196 --> 00:06:08,796 Speaker 1: even wrong with me? Oh? Yeah, what's wrong with me 85 00:06:08,916 --> 00:06:11,036 Speaker 1: is that I chose to walk up a million stairs 86 00:06:11,076 --> 00:06:14,276 Speaker 1: but neglected to remember how monstrously unfit I had become 87 00:06:14,276 --> 00:06:21,036 Speaker 1: in my dotage. Anyway, I'm going to the Psychology and 88 00:06:21,196 --> 00:06:27,836 Speaker 1: Personal growth section of the library. I passed a bunch 89 00:06:27,836 --> 00:06:31,476 Speaker 1: of books with titles like failure to Launch out Order 90 00:06:31,596 --> 00:06:35,716 Speaker 1: in her Calm, and I really needed this today Hoodakapi's 91 00:06:35,836 --> 00:06:39,636 Speaker 1: inspirational Words of Wisdom. Then I found what I was 92 00:06:39,676 --> 00:06:46,116 Speaker 1: looking for for two. Here we go here to make friends, 93 00:06:46,276 --> 00:06:49,276 Speaker 1: How to make friends as an adult? I hope killer 94 00:06:49,316 --> 00:06:56,116 Speaker 1: her so short her? WHOA? All right? I'm like almost 95 00:06:56,156 --> 00:06:58,516 Speaker 1: embarrassed to take this up to the counter and check 96 00:06:58,556 --> 00:07:05,036 Speaker 1: it out, but only almost. When I got home, I 97 00:07:05,116 --> 00:07:08,556 Speaker 1: cruised through the book, and here's what I learned. Most 98 00:07:08,596 --> 00:07:11,876 Speaker 1: people we have between one and five close friends. A 99 00:07:11,996 --> 00:07:17,796 Speaker 1: quality friendship has many dimensions like reciprocity, interdependence, emotional intimacy, 100 00:07:17,996 --> 00:07:22,356 Speaker 1: and conflict resolution. And between the ages of forty five 101 00:07:22,396 --> 00:07:25,596 Speaker 1: and fifty five. The number of friends people have seems 102 00:07:25,636 --> 00:07:30,436 Speaker 1: to plateau. Great something to look forward to. One thing 103 00:07:30,476 --> 00:07:33,396 Speaker 1: the book suggested that I hadn't thought of before was 104 00:07:33,516 --> 00:07:36,956 Speaker 1: using apps to make new friends, which seems an awful 105 00:07:36,996 --> 00:07:39,556 Speaker 1: lot like doing a zoom meet up to me, but 106 00:07:39,836 --> 00:07:44,116 Speaker 1: worse because it seems desperate. Just the suggestion that I 107 00:07:44,196 --> 00:07:49,516 Speaker 1: use something called friended or friender or friending all real 108 00:07:49,596 --> 00:07:53,476 Speaker 1: apps to meet a buddy makes my hair curl pass. 109 00:07:54,356 --> 00:07:56,556 Speaker 1: I did the dating apps a million years ago and 110 00:07:56,716 --> 00:07:59,396 Speaker 1: had about as much success as a toddler trying to 111 00:07:59,396 --> 00:08:03,276 Speaker 1: read Tolstoy. But maybe the apps would be good for 112 00:08:03,396 --> 00:08:07,716 Speaker 1: friend making, more one on one interaction, no awkward video. 113 00:08:08,396 --> 00:08:11,196 Speaker 1: So I broke my no apps ever again rule and 114 00:08:11,396 --> 00:08:18,236 Speaker 1: set up a bumble bff account. Okay, it's downloading, downloading 115 00:08:18,716 --> 00:08:24,756 Speaker 1: all right? Open? Oh no, this is giving me like 116 00:08:25,036 --> 00:08:30,276 Speaker 1: flashback PTSD. First I had to upload some photos, which 117 00:08:30,356 --> 00:08:33,276 Speaker 1: was totally annoying. I was already over this and I 118 00:08:33,356 --> 00:08:36,116 Speaker 1: hadn't even gotten into it. I don't need to drag 119 00:08:36,196 --> 00:08:39,196 Speaker 1: this out. I quit about thirty two seconds after starting. 120 00:08:39,716 --> 00:08:43,316 Speaker 1: Definitely not for me. The profiles were mostly just straight 121 00:08:43,396 --> 00:08:46,996 Speaker 1: moms looking for friends or activity. Partners and I wish 122 00:08:46,996 --> 00:08:50,316 Speaker 1: some good luck in that, but nary an autistic person 123 00:08:50,356 --> 00:08:54,196 Speaker 1: to be found. I was starting to feel dispirited. I 124 00:08:54,196 --> 00:08:57,276 Speaker 1: couldn't join the Zoom group, the friend book didn't really help, 125 00:08:57,636 --> 00:09:01,276 Speaker 1: and the app Root was not my jam. I was 126 00:09:01,556 --> 00:09:04,596 Speaker 1: never going to make an autistic friend. I was stuck 127 00:09:04,596 --> 00:09:09,716 Speaker 1: with the neurotips forever unless I called for backup in 128 00:09:09,756 --> 00:09:14,036 Speaker 1: the form of a narc ealeptic psychiatrist slash TV personality 129 00:09:14,076 --> 00:09:18,756 Speaker 1: who also has ADHD. Doctor Kelly to the rescue. That's 130 00:09:18,796 --> 00:09:28,236 Speaker 1: after the break my friend. Doctor Kelly Cyrus is a 131 00:09:28,236 --> 00:09:33,396 Speaker 1: board certified psychiatrist in private practice. She is also a neurodivergent, 132 00:09:33,516 --> 00:09:37,596 Speaker 1: queer black narc elliptic assistant professor who is often on 133 00:09:37,756 --> 00:09:42,556 Speaker 1: TV commentating on race identity and mental health, like here 134 00:09:42,676 --> 00:09:47,036 Speaker 1: on the Showtime show Couples Therapy, where she gently nudges 135 00:09:47,116 --> 00:09:51,476 Speaker 1: psychoanalyst or a girl Nick to examine her own racial identity. 136 00:09:51,796 --> 00:09:54,956 Speaker 1: Can I ask a question, has your whiteness been named? 137 00:09:54,996 --> 00:09:58,516 Speaker 1: In what way? Did they ever challenge you about it? No? 138 00:09:59,836 --> 00:10:04,236 Speaker 1: I want them to. Ooh Spicy Cally' is a good 139 00:10:04,236 --> 00:10:06,796 Speaker 1: pal of mine and helping people fix their problems as 140 00:10:06,836 --> 00:10:09,676 Speaker 1: part of her job, so I figured could ask her 141 00:10:09,676 --> 00:10:12,196 Speaker 1: to solve all my crap for me. Well, really, just 142 00:10:12,236 --> 00:10:16,676 Speaker 1: one thing, Kellie. I need. I need to find autistic 143 00:10:16,716 --> 00:10:19,756 Speaker 1: friends who are like me, who are my age, and 144 00:10:19,876 --> 00:10:23,636 Speaker 1: I need your Ope, can you help me? I can try, 145 00:10:23,996 --> 00:10:27,116 Speaker 1: you can try. I can try. Have you ever have 146 00:10:27,236 --> 00:10:30,316 Speaker 1: you ever had anyone ask you to help them find 147 00:10:30,396 --> 00:10:35,956 Speaker 1: friends before? I can't say that I've had someone say 148 00:10:36,116 --> 00:10:39,796 Speaker 1: help me find autistic friends before? Like me? Right, yes, 149 00:10:39,956 --> 00:10:42,756 Speaker 1: but I have gotten before. I need some friends that 150 00:10:42,916 --> 00:10:46,876 Speaker 1: they may not really Yeah, so you are not unfamiliar 151 00:10:47,196 --> 00:10:55,316 Speaker 1: with the strife and struggle of humans needing connection aka friends. Right, 152 00:10:55,436 --> 00:10:57,756 Speaker 1: but this is a special request, I will say. So 153 00:10:59,676 --> 00:11:02,356 Speaker 1: what can I say? I'm special? As anyone who is 154 00:11:02,396 --> 00:11:04,836 Speaker 1: over the age of twenty three knows, it's hard to 155 00:11:04,876 --> 00:11:08,276 Speaker 1: make friends as an adult. It's especially hard when you're 156 00:11:08,276 --> 00:11:10,396 Speaker 1: out of practice and you're looking for a needle in 157 00:11:10,436 --> 00:11:13,836 Speaker 1: a haystack, in my case, middle aged autistic people who 158 00:11:13,836 --> 00:11:17,596 Speaker 1: are not men, but also who like dogs and loud 159 00:11:17,636 --> 00:11:22,236 Speaker 1: talkers and don't mind endless conversations about perimenopause or my 160 00:11:22,316 --> 00:11:27,036 Speaker 1: upstairs neighbors midday karaoke habits. Before doctor Kelly could help me, 161 00:11:27,236 --> 00:11:30,756 Speaker 1: she wanted to know a crucial bit of information. Why 162 00:11:30,756 --> 00:11:33,036 Speaker 1: did I want to make an autistic friend so badly? 163 00:11:33,516 --> 00:11:36,236 Speaker 1: I could understand why you'd want to find a friend 164 00:11:36,276 --> 00:11:38,516 Speaker 1: like you, but what do you want to talk to 165 00:11:38,556 --> 00:11:41,436 Speaker 1: them about that you can't talk to other people about it? 166 00:11:41,516 --> 00:11:44,036 Speaker 1: Just kind of saying, Okay, that's a really good question. 167 00:11:44,356 --> 00:11:48,156 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this myself, and I think it's 168 00:11:48,356 --> 00:11:52,836 Speaker 1: like a comfort thing. I have gone through my entire 169 00:11:53,036 --> 00:11:59,356 Speaker 1: life in what I would categorize as like a non 170 00:11:59,516 --> 00:12:08,516 Speaker 1: autistic way. I don't know anybody who is autistic, except for, 171 00:12:09,236 --> 00:12:14,436 Speaker 1: you know, my girlfriend's son. I'm sure I have engaged 172 00:12:14,476 --> 00:12:17,636 Speaker 1: with autistic people many times and just not known it. 173 00:12:17,756 --> 00:12:21,316 Speaker 1: But in terms of like my close friends or even 174 00:12:21,396 --> 00:12:25,996 Speaker 1: my wider circle of acquaintances, to the extent that anyone 175 00:12:26,116 --> 00:12:30,636 Speaker 1: knows anyone's neurology, I don't think any of them are autistic. 176 00:12:30,836 --> 00:12:34,596 Speaker 1: And that feels weird in a way that I think 177 00:12:34,636 --> 00:12:38,636 Speaker 1: it would feel weird if I was like gay and 178 00:12:38,716 --> 00:12:41,876 Speaker 1: didn't know any gay people. Okay, Well, in case you're 179 00:12:41,916 --> 00:12:45,676 Speaker 1: just tuning in newsplash, I am gay and I do 180 00:12:45,756 --> 00:12:49,116 Speaker 1: know loads of gay people, and being friends with people 181 00:12:49,196 --> 00:12:52,756 Speaker 1: like me makes my life feel more complete in a 182 00:12:52,796 --> 00:12:56,276 Speaker 1: world where I often feel like an interloper. Having that 183 00:12:56,356 --> 00:12:59,956 Speaker 1: familiarity is critical. I explained it to Callie in a 184 00:12:59,996 --> 00:13:02,716 Speaker 1: different way. I'm from Pittsburgh, so I don't need to 185 00:13:02,756 --> 00:13:06,036 Speaker 1: know people from Pittsburgh to make my way through the world. 186 00:13:06,396 --> 00:13:10,796 Speaker 1: But every time I meet someone Fromburg it's like I 187 00:13:10,796 --> 00:13:15,956 Speaker 1: immediately feel like comforted around them. We have a similar 188 00:13:16,556 --> 00:13:20,756 Speaker 1: understanding of accent, of a language, of a sports team, 189 00:13:20,796 --> 00:13:24,196 Speaker 1: of a whatever. But there's another reason why making an 190 00:13:24,236 --> 00:13:28,276 Speaker 1: autistic friend or twelve is really important to me. Autism, 191 00:13:28,316 --> 00:13:31,436 Speaker 1: for me, doesn't feel normalized unless it's sort of a 192 00:13:31,476 --> 00:13:35,196 Speaker 1: part of your everyday life. But right now, it's not 193 00:13:35,316 --> 00:13:38,076 Speaker 1: a part of my every day in that I haven't 194 00:13:38,076 --> 00:13:41,796 Speaker 1: told that many people, so it's mostly just a diagnosis 195 00:13:41,836 --> 00:13:43,956 Speaker 1: that lives in my head along with the lyrics to 196 00:13:43,996 --> 00:13:47,276 Speaker 1: Salton Peppa Shoop, my running list of puppy names, and 197 00:13:47,436 --> 00:13:50,836 Speaker 1: deep regrets over that cross country road trip I didn't 198 00:13:50,876 --> 00:13:54,756 Speaker 1: take when I was twenty two. But doctor Kelley says 199 00:13:54,836 --> 00:13:57,396 Speaker 1: it's the lack of disclosure that makes it hard to 200 00:13:57,436 --> 00:14:00,196 Speaker 1: connect with people like me. It's kind of like dating 201 00:14:00,196 --> 00:14:02,236 Speaker 1: in this way, right like you're looking for someone to 202 00:14:02,276 --> 00:14:04,836 Speaker 1: set you up on a blind date to think of 203 00:14:04,876 --> 00:14:07,996 Speaker 1: you the next time. Maybe they know somebody or even 204 00:14:08,036 --> 00:14:11,796 Speaker 1: if it's there, and you can either try to look 205 00:14:11,836 --> 00:14:17,156 Speaker 1: for your future friend in real life or on the internet. Right, 206 00:14:17,196 --> 00:14:20,596 Speaker 1: And so some of that means some level of public disclosure, 207 00:14:21,916 --> 00:14:24,116 Speaker 1: because this is, you know, more of a private thing. 208 00:14:24,156 --> 00:14:27,076 Speaker 1: So you're gonna have to try to attract you know what, 209 00:14:27,156 --> 00:14:32,196 Speaker 1: you're looking like, God, well, putting myself out there is hard. 210 00:14:32,756 --> 00:14:35,916 Speaker 1: Why can't I just accidentally happen upon a whole trove 211 00:14:36,036 --> 00:14:38,636 Speaker 1: of autistic friends while I'm out walking my dog or something. 212 00:14:38,996 --> 00:14:40,996 Speaker 1: The best scenario would be like if you were out 213 00:14:41,076 --> 00:14:42,916 Speaker 1: doing something you would normally be doing, let's say it's 214 00:14:42,916 --> 00:14:46,116 Speaker 1: not coronavirus, and you met someone who also happened to 215 00:14:46,116 --> 00:14:48,836 Speaker 1: be autistic, which is like how you would find out 216 00:14:48,836 --> 00:14:50,956 Speaker 1: in that way because you're not wearing a badge of like, 217 00:14:51,516 --> 00:14:54,876 Speaker 1: don't just I'm going to though, now we're I'm going 218 00:14:54,876 --> 00:14:57,156 Speaker 1: to I'm gonna wear pins, I'm gonna wear some I'm 219 00:14:57,156 --> 00:15:01,876 Speaker 1: gonna be like, I'm autistic. Hey, what's what's your name? Okay, 220 00:15:02,236 --> 00:15:05,476 Speaker 1: badge pin idea not so great. I think I just 221 00:15:05,596 --> 00:15:07,956 Speaker 1: need to get my disclosure on to find people who 222 00:15:07,956 --> 00:15:12,316 Speaker 1: are like me. But doctor Kelly said, exercise some caution. 223 00:15:12,836 --> 00:15:15,876 Speaker 1: I believe that there's a way to disclose that is 224 00:15:15,956 --> 00:15:21,276 Speaker 1: professionally or personally responsible and aligned with whatever your boundaries are. Okay, 225 00:15:21,316 --> 00:15:23,356 Speaker 1: so this gives me. This gives me hope that I 226 00:15:23,476 --> 00:15:25,756 Speaker 1: might be able to make an autistic friend. But I 227 00:15:25,796 --> 00:15:29,116 Speaker 1: really just have to I have to put myself out there. Yes, 228 00:15:30,276 --> 00:15:34,676 Speaker 1: if you build it, they will come. Great. Great, I'll 229 00:15:34,676 --> 00:15:39,156 Speaker 1: just embody Kevin Conser. I'll just walk out of an 230 00:15:39,196 --> 00:15:42,516 Speaker 1: Iowa cornfield being like I'm autistic, and then all of 231 00:15:42,516 --> 00:15:44,876 Speaker 1: a sudden people would just be like flocking to me. 232 00:15:46,036 --> 00:15:52,516 Speaker 1: He right, I'm telling you that now. But before I 233 00:15:52,636 --> 00:15:55,316 Speaker 1: jumped from the autism kittie pool to the deep end, 234 00:15:55,756 --> 00:15:58,156 Speaker 1: I wanted to create a cheat sheet of sorts for 235 00:15:58,236 --> 00:16:02,596 Speaker 1: myself so I wasn't just flailing about. Luckily, girlfriend Hannah 236 00:16:02,636 --> 00:16:05,076 Speaker 1: had just the thing I was looking for. We met 237 00:16:05,156 --> 00:16:07,396 Speaker 1: up to talk about it over lunch. I think you're 238 00:16:07,436 --> 00:16:11,076 Speaker 1: sitting like too close to me right now? Okay, just 239 00:16:11,116 --> 00:16:14,116 Speaker 1: like we don't have to touch while you're sitting next 240 00:16:14,156 --> 00:16:17,436 Speaker 1: to me. Are you wearing a mock turtleneck? Okay? No, 241 00:16:17,556 --> 00:16:20,636 Speaker 1: I am not stop touching me if oh, if I 242 00:16:20,636 --> 00:16:23,436 Speaker 1: can't touch you, then fine, okay fine. Hannah pulled out 243 00:16:23,436 --> 00:16:26,276 Speaker 1: a folder with a sheaf of paper stuffed inside. Okay, 244 00:16:26,316 --> 00:16:28,396 Speaker 1: this is the thing I wanted to show you, right 245 00:16:28,516 --> 00:16:32,036 Speaker 1: which which is It's a it's a pretty well known 246 00:16:32,116 --> 00:16:35,436 Speaker 1: program called Peers. Yeah, and it's a program that Jacob 247 00:16:35,436 --> 00:16:40,076 Speaker 1: and I did together right before the pandemic. Jacob Hanna's 248 00:16:40,116 --> 00:16:43,796 Speaker 1: middle child and my favorite autistic team. Basically, it's a 249 00:16:43,796 --> 00:16:47,876 Speaker 1: pretty intense program and it's like a very specific breakdown 250 00:16:48,396 --> 00:16:53,276 Speaker 1: of how to make friends, and it's designed for teams 251 00:16:53,396 --> 00:16:56,396 Speaker 1: and which I am not, which you are not? But 252 00:16:57,756 --> 00:17:00,556 Speaker 1: aren't we all have like an internal age, you know, 253 00:17:00,756 --> 00:17:04,156 Speaker 1: and my internal age is seventy five. Thank you. The 254 00:17:04,196 --> 00:17:07,396 Speaker 1: handouts from Jacob's class broke down how to make friends 255 00:17:07,396 --> 00:17:11,196 Speaker 1: into the tiniest steps. They might seem obvious to most folks, 256 00:17:11,316 --> 00:17:16,076 Speaker 1: but autistics are not most folks. It's like identifying where 257 00:17:16,156 --> 00:17:20,036 Speaker 1: sources of friends might be. So it's basically like where 258 00:17:20,036 --> 00:17:22,356 Speaker 1: do they live, where do they exist? Where do they 259 00:17:22,396 --> 00:17:26,436 Speaker 1: show up? And then it's like, then how do you 260 00:17:26,716 --> 00:17:30,636 Speaker 1: enter into that the source? Like how do you jump 261 00:17:30,636 --> 00:17:33,116 Speaker 1: in that stream? How do you jump into the stream? 262 00:17:33,516 --> 00:17:35,796 Speaker 1: And then how do you maintain a conversation so the 263 00:17:35,796 --> 00:17:38,916 Speaker 1: conversation doesn't go like this, I like your green sweater. 264 00:17:39,836 --> 00:17:42,836 Speaker 1: Thank you. That right there is what we would call 265 00:17:42,876 --> 00:17:46,356 Speaker 1: a conversation ender. Good thing. Hannah took so many notes 266 00:17:46,396 --> 00:17:49,236 Speaker 1: on the strategies to avoid that happening in the future. 267 00:17:50,196 --> 00:17:52,556 Speaker 1: Look at my notes here. It's like, if I can't 268 00:17:52,556 --> 00:17:56,036 Speaker 1: even read your hand, reisation, have a prop ready so 269 00:17:56,076 --> 00:17:58,836 Speaker 1: that you can drop like a cane or like a 270 00:17:58,876 --> 00:18:03,396 Speaker 1: top hat. I would one hundred percent advocate that Hannah 271 00:18:03,436 --> 00:18:06,716 Speaker 1: dumped me after this exchange, But there were a lot 272 00:18:06,716 --> 00:18:09,596 Speaker 1: of good reminders in the worksheets about how to comport 273 00:18:09,636 --> 00:18:12,396 Speaker 1: yourself around people you might want to be friends with. 274 00:18:13,636 --> 00:18:17,756 Speaker 1: Ask the other person about themselves, find common interests, share 275 00:18:17,796 --> 00:18:21,556 Speaker 1: the conversation, don't be a conversation hug, don't be an interviewer, 276 00:18:21,916 --> 00:18:26,116 Speaker 1: don't get too personal at first, Assess interest. There are 277 00:18:26,196 --> 00:18:28,596 Speaker 1: for sure a few of those that I struggle with. 278 00:18:28,996 --> 00:18:32,116 Speaker 1: I'm going to let you guess which ones. After the break, 279 00:18:32,116 --> 00:18:34,196 Speaker 1: I'm going to take all this info and I'm going 280 00:18:34,236 --> 00:18:36,316 Speaker 1: to use it to put myself out there and see 281 00:18:36,316 --> 00:18:38,996 Speaker 1: who shows up. Just kidding, I'm going to be a 282 00:18:38,996 --> 00:18:41,756 Speaker 1: reporter and call up cool autistic people and see if 283 00:18:41,756 --> 00:18:43,716 Speaker 1: any of them want to be my friend. It's one 284 00:18:43,716 --> 00:18:46,276 Speaker 1: of the perks of working in media, asking interesting folks 285 00:18:46,276 --> 00:18:48,196 Speaker 1: to talk to you, and damn it, I'm going to 286 00:18:48,356 --> 00:18:50,476 Speaker 1: use it. Would you think I was going to do 287 00:18:50,596 --> 00:18:53,036 Speaker 1: stand on the sidewalk wearing a sandwich board that read 288 00:18:53,156 --> 00:18:56,956 Speaker 1: I'm autistic? Are you? I mean? I did consider it. 289 00:19:10,156 --> 00:19:13,116 Speaker 1: After trying and failing with the autistic Lady zoom and 290 00:19:13,156 --> 00:19:15,556 Speaker 1: the make a Friend app, I figured I needed to 291 00:19:15,596 --> 00:19:19,476 Speaker 1: get more strategic. With my doctor Callie conversation in my 292 00:19:19,596 --> 00:19:23,516 Speaker 1: head and the autistic teen worksheets at my fingertips. I 293 00:19:23,596 --> 00:19:26,396 Speaker 1: came up with a few rules to help guide my approach. 294 00:19:27,116 --> 00:19:33,676 Speaker 1: Rule number one, find things in common to talk about. 295 00:19:34,556 --> 00:19:37,236 Speaker 1: Catherine May is the New York Times best selling author 296 00:19:37,316 --> 00:19:40,836 Speaker 1: of Wintering, The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult 297 00:19:40,916 --> 00:19:44,676 Speaker 1: Times During the pandemic, I, like half the people I know, 298 00:19:44,956 --> 00:19:47,836 Speaker 1: read this book. It was a real beacon in the 299 00:19:47,916 --> 00:19:52,436 Speaker 1: perpetual bleakness that was COVID times. In reading that book, 300 00:19:52,516 --> 00:19:55,756 Speaker 1: one of the things I learned was that Catherine was autistic. 301 00:19:56,196 --> 00:20:00,276 Speaker 1: Well shit, that's exciting. Of course, upon uncovering that, I 302 00:20:00,356 --> 00:20:04,156 Speaker 1: had to know everything about her. One crucial detail about 303 00:20:04,236 --> 00:20:07,676 Speaker 1: Catherine is that before she wrote Wintering, she published a 304 00:20:07,716 --> 00:20:11,836 Speaker 1: memoir about learning she was artistic. It's called The Electricity 305 00:20:11,916 --> 00:20:15,036 Speaker 1: of Every Living Thing, and you should pass this episode 306 00:20:15,036 --> 00:20:20,396 Speaker 1: and go order a copy right now. It's that good. Naturally, 307 00:20:20,436 --> 00:20:22,836 Speaker 1: I wanted to be best friends with her, so I 308 00:20:22,916 --> 00:20:24,956 Speaker 1: called her up at her home in Kent in the 309 00:20:25,076 --> 00:20:27,876 Speaker 1: UK and just went for it. I'm curious about the 310 00:20:27,916 --> 00:20:34,196 Speaker 1: initial process of thinking about artism, or kind of diagnosing yourself, 311 00:20:34,236 --> 00:20:36,476 Speaker 1: Like I know in the book it became like a 312 00:20:36,556 --> 00:20:42,156 Speaker 1: compulsive yeah, job of like I need to hoover up 313 00:20:42,156 --> 00:20:45,916 Speaker 1: all the information about this. Yeah. I think that's a 314 00:20:45,956 --> 00:20:49,116 Speaker 1: really common experience having talked to other like diagnosed autistics. 315 00:20:49,156 --> 00:20:52,916 Speaker 1: Actually that you've become totally obsessed with hoovering. Like it 316 00:20:53,436 --> 00:20:56,156 Speaker 1: was this moment of recognition for me. I was driving 317 00:20:56,156 --> 00:20:58,676 Speaker 1: in my car and I heard a woman on the 318 00:20:58,756 --> 00:21:02,756 Speaker 1: radio talk about being autistic herself, and genuinely, you know, 319 00:21:02,836 --> 00:21:05,276 Speaker 1: like I was thirty nine years old. It was the 320 00:21:05,356 --> 00:21:09,316 Speaker 1: first time I'd ever heard an autistic woman speak about 321 00:21:09,476 --> 00:21:13,716 Speaker 1: her experiences, and I immediately recognized myself. There was just 322 00:21:14,396 --> 00:21:16,356 Speaker 1: there was just no shadow of a doubt in my mind. 323 00:21:16,396 --> 00:21:20,836 Speaker 1: Like I felt this immediate contact with her, and it 324 00:21:20,916 --> 00:21:24,076 Speaker 1: was on one hand quite thrilling and on the other 325 00:21:24,116 --> 00:21:28,076 Speaker 1: hand completely terrifying and unknown. And like, you know, did 326 00:21:28,116 --> 00:21:30,636 Speaker 1: I want to carry this label? What would it mean? 327 00:21:30,716 --> 00:21:34,236 Speaker 1: What does it mean about me? You know, the whole 328 00:21:34,396 --> 00:21:39,876 Speaker 1: big cloud of thought and fear, you know, anxiety, Oh 329 00:21:39,916 --> 00:21:43,276 Speaker 1: my god, same, we're twins. I wanted to talk to 330 00:21:43,316 --> 00:21:49,396 Speaker 1: you about your temper as a kind, and and I guess, 331 00:21:49,516 --> 00:21:53,196 Speaker 1: like what that looked like when you were a child. Yeah, 332 00:21:53,716 --> 00:21:55,956 Speaker 1: I was, you know, seen as a child with a 333 00:21:55,996 --> 00:21:58,796 Speaker 1: temper who could kind of fly off the handle, who 334 00:21:59,436 --> 00:22:04,716 Speaker 1: was naughty and difficult. And I believed that about myself, 335 00:22:04,756 --> 00:22:09,476 Speaker 1: and so that's what I've kind of overwritten my memory with, 336 00:22:09,636 --> 00:22:12,556 Speaker 1: you know. And so to see it now as like 337 00:22:12,596 --> 00:22:15,876 Speaker 1: an autistic child who was meeting moments of social and 338 00:22:16,276 --> 00:22:21,996 Speaker 1: sensory overwhelming was therefore mentally collapsing in the way that 339 00:22:22,076 --> 00:22:24,636 Speaker 1: you know, we're really familiar with understanding that autistic kids 340 00:22:24,676 --> 00:22:27,476 Speaker 1: do now and adults, but you know, probably more more 341 00:22:27,556 --> 00:22:31,636 Speaker 1: visibly children. I find it hard to unravel and to 342 00:22:31,676 --> 00:22:34,756 Speaker 1: go back to what those triggers were for me. You know, 343 00:22:34,796 --> 00:22:37,436 Speaker 1: they've they've kind of vanished in time, and what I 344 00:22:37,476 --> 00:22:42,276 Speaker 1: remember as being disapproved of by adults for losing control 345 00:22:42,676 --> 00:22:48,316 Speaker 1: and feeling very different in that sense, like very very 346 00:22:48,396 --> 00:22:50,916 Speaker 1: much like a like somebody who was who did not 347 00:22:51,076 --> 00:22:52,956 Speaker 1: have control of their behavior in the way that other 348 00:22:53,036 --> 00:22:56,076 Speaker 1: children did, and wondering how other children managed to pull 349 00:22:56,116 --> 00:23:01,276 Speaker 1: off this amazing feet of control. Okay, it was clear 350 00:23:01,396 --> 00:23:04,956 Speaker 1: that Kathern May and I weren't destined for best friend necklaces, 351 00:23:05,396 --> 00:23:08,916 Speaker 1: Oprah and Gail move over. We had empathy, we had 352 00:23:09,316 --> 00:23:12,596 Speaker 1: in common like anger and meltdowns. We were on the 353 00:23:12,676 --> 00:23:17,716 Speaker 1: express train to Paltown, so I had to ask will 354 00:23:17,756 --> 00:23:22,156 Speaker 1: you be my autistic Yes? Yes, this is so great. 355 00:23:22,276 --> 00:23:24,196 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said yes, because it would be 356 00:23:24,236 --> 00:23:30,316 Speaker 1: really awkward if you said no. Autistic friendmaking level one unlocked. 357 00:23:30,876 --> 00:23:33,356 Speaker 1: But then I made it weird by following up our 358 00:23:33,436 --> 00:23:35,796 Speaker 1: chat with an email saying I was going to fly 359 00:23:35,996 --> 00:23:38,276 Speaker 1: to the UK so we could do a ramble in 360 00:23:38,316 --> 00:23:48,716 Speaker 1: the countryside like a good brit Catherine politely declined rule 361 00:23:48,836 --> 00:23:57,836 Speaker 1: number two for how to make a friend show some vulnerability. Now, 362 00:23:58,196 --> 00:24:02,396 Speaker 1: normally I'm allergic to the V word, but sharing is caring, right. 363 00:24:03,236 --> 00:24:06,156 Speaker 1: Pip Brown is an electro pop singer songwriter from a 364 00:24:06,316 --> 00:24:10,276 Speaker 1: Tiaroa New Zealand known as Lady Hawk. Hey, I'm Lady 365 00:24:10,316 --> 00:24:14,196 Speaker 1: Hook or you can call me Pip. Fun fact, Pip 366 00:24:14,196 --> 00:24:17,636 Speaker 1: composed all the original music for the series, So if 367 00:24:17,636 --> 00:24:19,996 Speaker 1: you like what you hear, give Lady Hawk's tunes a whirl. 368 00:24:20,796 --> 00:24:24,076 Speaker 1: But Pip is other things besides a musician. She's a 369 00:24:24,116 --> 00:24:28,116 Speaker 1: prolific gamer, a parent, and for our purposes and artistics, 370 00:24:28,196 --> 00:24:31,316 Speaker 1: soon to be friend. Did you ever have a clue 371 00:24:31,396 --> 00:24:33,796 Speaker 1: you're like because you felt like you were a little 372 00:24:33,796 --> 00:24:36,196 Speaker 1: bit weird, a little bit different than you found music 373 00:24:36,356 --> 00:24:39,796 Speaker 1: and it was a relief. But did you sense like 374 00:24:39,796 --> 00:24:44,596 Speaker 1: like there's something else? Yeah? Yeah, there was that feeling 375 00:24:44,596 --> 00:24:48,196 Speaker 1: for me. And when I was living in Melbourne, I 376 00:24:48,276 --> 00:24:52,356 Speaker 1: was struggling a lot with going outside. I was struggling 377 00:24:52,396 --> 00:24:55,996 Speaker 1: with like getting on public transport to go to my job, 378 00:24:56,036 --> 00:24:58,156 Speaker 1: which was I worked at a bar. I remember thinking 379 00:24:58,156 --> 00:25:00,436 Speaker 1: to myself, this shouldn't be this hard for a person. 380 00:25:00,516 --> 00:25:03,196 Speaker 1: Other people don't find it that hard to walk out 381 00:25:03,196 --> 00:25:06,436 Speaker 1: the front door and like get on a tram. But 382 00:25:06,716 --> 00:25:09,756 Speaker 1: for me, I had the cyclical thoughts in my head 383 00:25:09,876 --> 00:25:11,876 Speaker 1: of everything that could go wrong in the time that 384 00:25:11,956 --> 00:25:14,076 Speaker 1: I stepped out of the door and hopped onto the tram. 385 00:25:14,916 --> 00:25:17,996 Speaker 1: So for me, my biggest fear has always been the 386 00:25:18,076 --> 00:25:22,676 Speaker 1: unpredictability of other people. And I hate getting on like 387 00:25:22,836 --> 00:25:25,116 Speaker 1: public transport and not knowing what's going to happen because 388 00:25:25,356 --> 00:25:28,236 Speaker 1: strangers are just like crazy, instantly crazy. To me, I'm like, 389 00:25:28,276 --> 00:25:31,076 Speaker 1: anyone could do anything at any point. Pepper is doing 390 00:25:31,076 --> 00:25:34,396 Speaker 1: an excellent job in the vulnerability department. Clearly she knows 391 00:25:34,396 --> 00:25:37,436 Speaker 1: how this friend making thing works. So I hopped on 392 00:25:37,436 --> 00:25:41,356 Speaker 1: a tram. I really really mentally worked myself up to it. 393 00:25:41,836 --> 00:25:44,076 Speaker 1: I was like sweating and I felt sick. I was 394 00:25:44,076 --> 00:25:46,676 Speaker 1: like I'm nautious, I'm nauseous, and I was sitting there 395 00:25:46,836 --> 00:25:51,476 Speaker 1: and this like junkie couple hopped on the next stop 396 00:25:52,236 --> 00:25:55,196 Speaker 1: and instantly the check just puked on the ground and 397 00:25:55,236 --> 00:25:58,276 Speaker 1: I went and that's why worst, that's like my worst nightmare. 398 00:25:58,316 --> 00:26:00,116 Speaker 1: Like you couldn't put me in a worse situation. And 399 00:26:00,196 --> 00:26:06,516 Speaker 1: I was like having a meltdown and like I had 400 00:26:06,556 --> 00:26:08,516 Speaker 1: to get off the tram and I called my girlfriend 401 00:26:08,516 --> 00:26:11,876 Speaker 1: at the time. It's like I'm off the trim, come 402 00:26:12,156 --> 00:26:19,236 Speaker 1: come get me, help me. A junkie puked Like that 403 00:26:19,356 --> 00:26:23,556 Speaker 1: was I'm laughing so much because this is like, this 404 00:26:23,636 --> 00:26:28,996 Speaker 1: is exactly my feeling, Like I feel you on this 405 00:26:29,156 --> 00:26:33,916 Speaker 1: so hard, because like any kind of erratic behavior is 406 00:26:34,116 --> 00:26:38,556 Speaker 1: very stressful to me. So like, so this is gonna 407 00:26:38,596 --> 00:26:43,116 Speaker 1: sound totally nuts, but just bear with me. Like I 408 00:26:43,196 --> 00:26:46,636 Speaker 1: have a real I have almost like a phobia of 409 00:26:46,716 --> 00:26:51,836 Speaker 1: particular birds, because birds are like unpredictable. Birds will come 410 00:26:51,916 --> 00:26:54,316 Speaker 1: like flap at you. Like I got tacked by a 411 00:26:54,356 --> 00:26:57,596 Speaker 1: turkey once and it was like holy shit, like what 412 00:26:57,796 --> 00:27:00,716 Speaker 1: is happening? Yeah, yeah, And I'm fearful that the thing 413 00:27:00,836 --> 00:27:04,516 Speaker 1: is gonna impact me, Like what's happening. I'm fearful that 414 00:27:04,596 --> 00:27:07,636 Speaker 1: it's gonna happen on me. Oh yeah, Well, you don't 415 00:27:07,676 --> 00:27:09,796 Speaker 1: want to get barthed up. I don't want to get 416 00:27:09,796 --> 00:27:12,676 Speaker 1: based on or pooped on, or like all the things 417 00:27:12,716 --> 00:27:15,996 Speaker 1: I've seen heaven. You know, I had to immassive. Well 418 00:27:16,036 --> 00:27:20,156 Speaker 1: you wouldn't know this, but like my social anxiety when 419 00:27:20,156 --> 00:27:25,676 Speaker 1: I was a kid up and through probably college was 420 00:27:25,756 --> 00:27:29,516 Speaker 1: like that I would throw up in public and I 421 00:27:29,516 --> 00:27:35,036 Speaker 1: would make myself so nervous about the idea, and because 422 00:27:35,076 --> 00:27:38,396 Speaker 1: I was anxious about that, I would get a stomach ache, 423 00:27:38,596 --> 00:27:40,796 Speaker 1: and the stomach ache would say to me, oh, you're 424 00:27:40,876 --> 00:27:44,396 Speaker 1: gonna throw up in public, so so I would have 425 00:27:44,476 --> 00:27:47,036 Speaker 1: to like sit out, Like I'd be all ready to 426 00:27:47,076 --> 00:27:50,316 Speaker 1: go for like Halloween trick or treating and then feel 427 00:27:50,796 --> 00:27:53,116 Speaker 1: super anxious, feel like I was going to throw up, 428 00:27:53,156 --> 00:27:55,676 Speaker 1: and then have to sit it out. And I never 429 00:27:56,036 --> 00:28:00,356 Speaker 1: puped ever. I never did. You've just described my entire 430 00:28:00,476 --> 00:28:04,356 Speaker 1: childhood that exact thing. Yeah, was my thing, and I 431 00:28:04,556 --> 00:28:08,156 Speaker 1: always god would work myself up to the point where 432 00:28:08,196 --> 00:28:10,396 Speaker 1: I felt nautious, and then I'd be like, I'm gonna puke. 433 00:28:10,396 --> 00:28:12,436 Speaker 1: I'm gonna puke, I'm gonna puke. I can I'd be like, 434 00:28:14,036 --> 00:28:16,116 Speaker 1: oh my god, I'd have a puke. And I'd always 435 00:28:16,116 --> 00:28:18,116 Speaker 1: have to get seen hard from school as well and 436 00:28:18,356 --> 00:28:20,676 Speaker 1: be like, I can't, I can't do this class. I 437 00:28:21,156 --> 00:28:23,316 Speaker 1: feel sick. I feel sick. I want to be sick. Right. 438 00:28:24,196 --> 00:28:26,596 Speaker 1: It was just like it was awful, and it followed 439 00:28:26,636 --> 00:28:30,076 Speaker 1: me around for years. That ship. Oh my god, me too. 440 00:28:31,116 --> 00:28:34,036 Speaker 1: I don't tell many people that stuff because it's weird 441 00:28:34,636 --> 00:28:39,436 Speaker 1: like bird and bar phobias, really, but I shared some 442 00:28:39,516 --> 00:28:42,476 Speaker 1: of my vulnerabilities and it turns out Pip has them 443 00:28:42,516 --> 00:28:45,756 Speaker 1: too well, not the bird thing that's all me. But 444 00:28:45,956 --> 00:28:48,876 Speaker 1: still I feel like we could be moving to best 445 00:28:48,876 --> 00:28:52,196 Speaker 1: friend zone. Oh, I have one last question, Um, do 446 00:28:52,236 --> 00:28:59,876 Speaker 1: you want to be my autistic friend? Yes? Yes? M 447 00:29:00,156 --> 00:29:04,116 Speaker 1: Did I sense a slight hesitation in Pip's voice? Maybe 448 00:29:04,676 --> 00:29:08,276 Speaker 1: she is probably worried I will exhibit unpredictable behavior if 449 00:29:08,316 --> 00:29:10,836 Speaker 1: we ever meet in life, and she would be right 450 00:29:10,876 --> 00:29:15,436 Speaker 1: to be concerned. According to the Autistic teen Worksheet, one 451 00:29:15,436 --> 00:29:18,676 Speaker 1: of the most important skills in friendmaking is that when 452 00:29:18,676 --> 00:29:22,156 Speaker 1: you are in conversation with someone, you reflect back what 453 00:29:22,236 --> 00:29:25,116 Speaker 1: the other person has told you. You don't shift the 454 00:29:25,156 --> 00:29:29,076 Speaker 1: conversation back to you and your story. This approach to 455 00:29:29,116 --> 00:29:33,356 Speaker 1: friendship might be obvious, but it's something I actively struggle with, 456 00:29:33,956 --> 00:29:36,836 Speaker 1: mostly because I use my own experience as a way 457 00:29:36,876 --> 00:29:39,756 Speaker 1: to empathize with people. But that can take you out 458 00:29:39,756 --> 00:29:42,916 Speaker 1: of someone else's story. By the way, this is me 459 00:29:42,996 --> 00:29:45,556 Speaker 1: being vulnerable with you. Do you want to be friends now? 460 00:29:46,036 --> 00:29:57,716 Speaker 1: And I thought so? So my final rule be a 461 00:29:57,796 --> 00:30:02,556 Speaker 1: reflective listener. Chelsea Wolf is a professional BMX writer in 462 00:30:02,596 --> 00:30:06,116 Speaker 1: San Diego, and a pretty excellent one at that. She 463 00:30:06,276 --> 00:30:08,916 Speaker 1: was an alternate to represent the US in the twenty 464 00:30:09,116 --> 00:30:13,196 Speaker 1: twenty Tokyo Olympics. Chelsea is also one of the very 465 00:30:13,316 --> 00:30:18,476 Speaker 1: few out transaction sports athletes. From a young age, Chelsea 466 00:30:18,596 --> 00:30:23,516 Speaker 1: was into just about everything with wheels, jeeps, remote controlled cars, 467 00:30:23,556 --> 00:30:27,876 Speaker 1: but bikes stole her heart. There's something so fascinating and 468 00:30:28,076 --> 00:30:33,036 Speaker 1: beautiful about the bicycle and how it's just a simple 469 00:30:33,236 --> 00:30:36,916 Speaker 1: but also complex piece of machinery that can be fine 470 00:30:37,036 --> 00:30:42,116 Speaker 1: tuned to just create beautiful music of riding basically, and 471 00:30:42,276 --> 00:30:46,436 Speaker 1: just the different styles of bikes and construction they're They're 472 00:30:46,556 --> 00:30:50,276 Speaker 1: very fascinating. Her obsession with bikes was one of the 473 00:30:50,316 --> 00:30:54,436 Speaker 1: reasons she suspected she might be autistic. Probably one of 474 00:30:54,476 --> 00:30:58,996 Speaker 1: my longtime special interests is just bikes and bike knowledge. 475 00:30:59,036 --> 00:31:01,276 Speaker 1: I worked as a mechanic for like nine years, and 476 00:31:02,236 --> 00:31:04,796 Speaker 1: there's just so many things to learn about such a 477 00:31:04,836 --> 00:31:08,516 Speaker 1: simple thing. But then socially as well, like the freedom 478 00:31:08,716 --> 00:31:12,796 Speaker 1: that bicycles provide of just freedom of motion and their 479 00:31:12,836 --> 00:31:19,036 Speaker 1: involvement in various liberation movements throughout history. Bicycles are a 480 00:31:19,196 --> 00:31:22,996 Speaker 1: very special thing to me. I feel you like I'm 481 00:31:23,036 --> 00:31:26,116 Speaker 1: smiling the whole way through as you're talking, because I 482 00:31:26,156 --> 00:31:29,756 Speaker 1: feel the same way. I mean, you know, I was okay, 483 00:31:29,796 --> 00:31:33,636 Speaker 1: So I'm shifting back to me not really reflective listening, Lauren. 484 00:31:34,516 --> 00:31:38,716 Speaker 1: Let's try again. Did you get a formal autism diagnosis 485 00:31:38,836 --> 00:31:42,276 Speaker 1: or did you sort of self identify self diagnosed? And 486 00:31:43,236 --> 00:31:46,916 Speaker 1: when did that happen for you? I kind of always 487 00:31:46,996 --> 00:31:51,756 Speaker 1: knew there was something. My older brother was diagnosed as 488 00:31:51,796 --> 00:31:55,116 Speaker 1: autistic at a very young age. Very difficult, you know, 489 00:31:55,156 --> 00:31:59,396 Speaker 1: the boy gets diagnosed and the girl is ignored. So 490 00:31:59,436 --> 00:32:02,476 Speaker 1: it wasn't until a couple of years ago actually that 491 00:32:02,876 --> 00:32:05,716 Speaker 1: when the pandemic started, all of those supports kind of 492 00:32:05,716 --> 00:32:07,956 Speaker 1: fell apart and I had to start spending time with 493 00:32:07,996 --> 00:32:12,836 Speaker 1: myself that I started to really have to figure out, like, 494 00:32:13,436 --> 00:32:15,236 Speaker 1: what is it that makes me tick? How do I 495 00:32:15,316 --> 00:32:19,236 Speaker 1: learn how to function again without the supports that I 496 00:32:19,356 --> 00:32:23,356 Speaker 1: used to have. So it was during the year of 497 00:32:23,356 --> 00:32:26,196 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, like that was when I sought out and 498 00:32:26,516 --> 00:32:30,196 Speaker 1: got a diagnosis. But I went my entire life just 499 00:32:30,236 --> 00:32:33,556 Speaker 1: thinking that there was something wrong with me, rather than 500 00:32:33,996 --> 00:32:37,956 Speaker 1: realizing like, oh, this, this particular thing about me is 501 00:32:38,316 --> 00:32:40,676 Speaker 1: because of the autism. Like I just thought it was 502 00:32:40,716 --> 00:32:45,756 Speaker 1: like a character flaw. That's interesting that you had a 503 00:32:45,876 --> 00:32:51,716 Speaker 1: sibling who was on the spectrum and was diagnosed, and like, 504 00:32:51,836 --> 00:32:55,596 Speaker 1: I mean, were there similarities between you where you were like, oh, 505 00:32:55,596 --> 00:32:59,716 Speaker 1: he has that I'm a little bit like that, absolutely, 506 00:32:59,756 --> 00:33:01,916 Speaker 1: And that's the thing that blows my mind that I 507 00:33:01,956 --> 00:33:05,916 Speaker 1: don't understand how I wasn't diagnosed sooner. Is like almost 508 00:33:05,956 --> 00:33:09,676 Speaker 1: all of the things that got him his diet ignosis, 509 00:33:09,756 --> 00:33:12,196 Speaker 1: like the various traits that were noticed and picked up 510 00:33:12,196 --> 00:33:15,356 Speaker 1: on by the adults. I had the same thing. But 511 00:33:15,436 --> 00:33:17,436 Speaker 1: instead of being like, oh, wow, like you might be 512 00:33:17,516 --> 00:33:20,076 Speaker 1: autistic too, let's take you to a professional and figure 513 00:33:20,116 --> 00:33:22,636 Speaker 1: this out, it was like, why are you doing that thing? 514 00:33:22,676 --> 00:33:24,916 Speaker 1: And I would get in trouble for it and be criticized. 515 00:33:24,956 --> 00:33:28,756 Speaker 1: It's like, well what, And it's really funny too. Was 516 00:33:28,876 --> 00:33:31,596 Speaker 1: like at the time, my parents wouldn't have had any 517 00:33:31,636 --> 00:33:34,196 Speaker 1: reason to suspect that I wasn't a boy just like 518 00:33:34,236 --> 00:33:37,676 Speaker 1: my older brother. And yet my experiences even in that 519 00:33:37,756 --> 00:33:42,556 Speaker 1: time is more closely aligned with experiences of them people 520 00:33:42,676 --> 00:33:46,716 Speaker 1: and women who are autistic being overlooked and having our 521 00:33:46,796 --> 00:33:51,636 Speaker 1: needs neglected because the way that they are perceived that 522 00:33:51,836 --> 00:33:57,036 Speaker 1: is so interesting. Isn't like like in your brain, in 523 00:33:57,116 --> 00:34:01,276 Speaker 1: your soul, in all of the parts that matter, you're 524 00:34:01,476 --> 00:34:07,516 Speaker 1: identifying as female, and so that is how your brain works, 525 00:34:08,116 --> 00:34:12,596 Speaker 1: and you were probably doing all of the sort of stereotypical, 526 00:34:12,676 --> 00:34:16,236 Speaker 1: like masking, camouflaging, like all of that kind of stuff. 527 00:34:16,716 --> 00:34:19,516 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, it's so it's also complicated 528 00:34:19,596 --> 00:34:23,596 Speaker 1: and interesting, weird and like our brains are so bizarre. 529 00:34:24,476 --> 00:34:27,836 Speaker 1: This is all going very well. I think now you 530 00:34:27,876 --> 00:34:30,156 Speaker 1: know what I have to ask, Chelsea. I want to know, 531 00:34:30,436 --> 00:34:33,556 Speaker 1: will you be my autistic friend? I would love to 532 00:34:33,596 --> 00:34:40,156 Speaker 1: be your autistic friend? Yes? Yes, lemons the best friends 533 00:34:40,276 --> 00:34:42,916 Speaker 1: like this. You know how there's always like growing up, 534 00:34:42,996 --> 00:34:47,196 Speaker 1: there's that just disconnect of like you don't understand why 535 00:34:47,396 --> 00:34:50,036 Speaker 1: you don't connect with your peers, but you know that 536 00:34:50,076 --> 00:34:52,756 Speaker 1: you don't, and you just feel like an outcast. Autistic 537 00:34:52,756 --> 00:34:55,236 Speaker 1: friends of the opposite. It's like you don't understand why 538 00:34:55,316 --> 00:34:57,796 Speaker 1: you have that connection, but you just fit in. It 539 00:34:57,876 --> 00:35:03,156 Speaker 1: works so well. So yeah, are the best fantastic So 540 00:35:03,196 --> 00:35:08,796 Speaker 1: if I ever, if I ever come out to talking 541 00:35:08,836 --> 00:35:12,236 Speaker 1: to all these great autistic women and gently forcing my 542 00:35:12,276 --> 00:35:16,076 Speaker 1: friendship on them was so inspiring and heartening. It's such 543 00:35:16,116 --> 00:35:19,316 Speaker 1: a lovely feeling to know that you're part of a clan, 544 00:35:19,836 --> 00:35:22,436 Speaker 1: that you have kin beyond the people who raised you. 545 00:35:23,156 --> 00:35:25,756 Speaker 1: These women made me feel like I'm not alone. I 546 00:35:25,876 --> 00:35:29,236 Speaker 1: felt like they got me, and I got them, and 547 00:35:29,316 --> 00:35:32,636 Speaker 1: the importance of that can't be underestimated. We all want 548 00:35:32,676 --> 00:35:36,076 Speaker 1: to feel seen and have our experiences reflected back to 549 00:35:36,196 --> 00:35:39,356 Speaker 1: us in a friendly face or a kind word or 550 00:35:39,516 --> 00:35:42,676 Speaker 1: a light touch. Just kidding, light touches are the worst 551 00:35:43,556 --> 00:35:46,836 Speaker 1: for me. Just knowing that people like Catherine and Pip 552 00:35:46,876 --> 00:35:50,116 Speaker 1: and Chelsea exist as well as doctor Kelly, who is 553 00:35:50,156 --> 00:35:54,236 Speaker 1: autism adjacent, make stepping into this new identity seem a 554 00:35:54,276 --> 00:35:58,036 Speaker 1: little less terrifying. I feel more sure of myself after 555 00:35:58,076 --> 00:36:01,636 Speaker 1: talking with them, like I can accomplish anything, which is 556 00:36:01,676 --> 00:36:04,116 Speaker 1: good because I have a big task ahead of me. 557 00:36:04,996 --> 00:36:07,596 Speaker 1: At this point in my journey, I've passed through the 558 00:36:07,636 --> 00:36:12,076 Speaker 1: outer rings with my disclosure. I've told friends, acquaintances, and 559 00:36:12,196 --> 00:36:15,676 Speaker 1: total strangers. But now it's time to let in the 560 00:36:15,716 --> 00:36:20,036 Speaker 1: innermost ring, the ring with the highest stakes. It's time 561 00:36:20,076 --> 00:36:32,476 Speaker 1: to tell my family You've been listening to the Loudest 562 00:36:32,516 --> 00:36:36,076 Speaker 1: Girl in the World. It's hosted, written, end executive produced 563 00:36:36,116 --> 00:36:39,756 Speaker 1: by me Lauren Ober. Our senior producer is writer. Also 564 00:36:40,316 --> 00:36:44,116 Speaker 1: our associate producer is David John. Sophie Crane is our 565 00:36:44,116 --> 00:36:47,956 Speaker 1: showrunner and senior editor. Jake Gorski is our mix engineer. 566 00:36:48,396 --> 00:36:53,156 Speaker 1: Music composed by my autistic Kiwi Pale the Inimitable Lady Hawk. 567 00:36:53,716 --> 00:36:58,276 Speaker 1: Our artwork was created by the autistic illustrator Loretta Ipsum. 568 00:36:58,356 --> 00:37:01,436 Speaker 1: The show was fact checked by Andrea Lopez Cruzado, and 569 00:37:01,596 --> 00:37:06,196 Speaker 1: our autism consultant is Sarah Cappett. Our executive producers are 570 00:37:06,316 --> 00:37:14,956 Speaker 1: Mia Lobell and Lee tom mullat Big. Thanks to my 571 00:37:15,036 --> 00:37:18,676 Speaker 1: pal doctor Cally Cyrus for her time and expertise. You 572 00:37:18,716 --> 00:37:24,076 Speaker 1: can find her online at Callie DCMD dot com. That's 573 00:37:24,156 --> 00:37:28,316 Speaker 1: Callie k a l I super special. Thanks to all 574 00:37:28,396 --> 00:37:32,116 Speaker 1: my new autistic best friends Katherine May, Pip Brown, and 575 00:37:32,316 --> 00:37:35,916 Speaker 1: Chelsea Wolf check them out in all the places. And 576 00:37:36,036 --> 00:37:37,956 Speaker 1: thanks to you friend for listening.