1
00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,920
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, your

2
00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:09,160
Speaker 1: podcast about people who were cool and did cool stuff,

3
00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:11,840
Speaker 1: like in the snow. The snow is goh fuck. I

4
00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,200
Speaker 1: wrote that on later into the script just locked it up.

5
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,880
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy and with me as this

6
00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,640
Speaker 1: week's guest and probably next week's guest, depending on the

7
00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,680
Speaker 1: linearity of when we release these episodes, is Carl. Hi.

8
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,280
Speaker 2: Carl, Hey, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

9
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Carl is the host of in Range TV, which

10
00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,519
Speaker 1: is where you can go to learn about guns from

11
00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,160
Speaker 1: people who aren't bad people.

12
00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,639
Speaker 2: Oh no, we definitely don't want to be that's such

13
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,680
Speaker 2: a touchy topic, but we try to touch on things

14
00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,640
Speaker 2: that from a very different perspective and bring like, for example,

15
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,280
Speaker 2: I know we're going to be talking about war today,

16
00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 2: and war is something that needs to be talked about

17
00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 2: as part of the human condition, but it shouldn't be glorified.

18
00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:53,479
Speaker 2: And that's one of the things, Like we talk about war,

19
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,440
Speaker 2: and we talk about guns, and we talk about topics

20
00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,920
Speaker 2: around that on in Range, but it's not glorification at

21
00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:58,800
Speaker 2: least it isn't meant to be.

22
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you'll do a good job. Actually,

23
00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,319
Speaker 1: even before I or do you want anything else, I've

24
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,080
Speaker 1: been watching in range TV because when I got into

25
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,919
Speaker 1: firearms after Nazis docked me, I was looking for things

26
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,959
Speaker 1: I didn't even like. I was like, oh, this person

27
00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,440
Speaker 1: is not a right winger and isn't telling me to

28
00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,880
Speaker 1: hate everyone. Not that everyone on on YouTube is that right,

29
00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,400
Speaker 1: but it was just something I really appreciated about the

30
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:31,479
Speaker 1: way you handle it. And you know who else handles firearms, well,

31
00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,200
Speaker 1: Sophie two guns Licktormen.

32
00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,440
Speaker 3: Wow, what an honor. I'll take that nickname.

33
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I was.

34
00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,920
Speaker 2: Funny about the nickname from historical speaking is in the

35
00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,160
Speaker 2: Old West, which is not what we're talking about today.

36
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,800
Speaker 2: But if someone was called a two gun person, they

37
00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,320
Speaker 2: were actually a bad actor because you wouldn't come into

38
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 2: town with two guns.

39
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,520
Speaker 1: It's actually so your dog is secretly insult.

40
00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:57,720
Speaker 2: You just got secretly dissed.

41
00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I probably deserved it.

42
00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,560
Speaker 1: Well, it's because you just keep dropping one, you know.

43
00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

44
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,000
Speaker 1: Well, pirates had lots of guns, but that's because they

45
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:12,680
Speaker 1: were single shot.

46
00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean you hold ten of them and you

47
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 2: had eight shots. The two wouldn't go off on the

48
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:19,160
Speaker 2: other eight. Mite.

49
00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

50
00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,080
Speaker 3: I have a really big axe. Does that make me cool?

51
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,160
Speaker 2: Yes? Axes are cool. Yeah, of course they're cool.

52
00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,919
Speaker 1: Axes are actually cooler, although the only time they've appeared

53
00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,520
Speaker 1: so far in this story is real bad. But so

54
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:36,919
Speaker 1: do you think you're the greater wrath? I think you're

55
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:42,320
Speaker 1: the greater wrath, Sophie, the greater wrath. Licktermen, I'll take it. Okay,

56
00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 1: that's our producer, and Ian the lesser rat no no,

57
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 1: Ian's nickname six guns. Yeah, I'm out of ideas. Uh

58
00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,600
Speaker 1: Ian is the Ian the audio engineer. That is, that's

59
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,880
Speaker 1: Ian's name. And on woman whose name is already a

60
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 1: nickname made our music for us. So the full round

61
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:18,040
Speaker 1: of and I got killed Joy, I'm good, I already. Yeah.

62
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,359
Speaker 1: This week we are talking about snipers, and we're talking

63
00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,160
Speaker 1: about World War Two. It's all an excuse to talk

64
00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,560
Speaker 1: about the Eastern Front World War two and how complicated

65
00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,760
Speaker 1: it was, and to make you all actually think it's interesting,

66
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,240
Speaker 1: because it is interesting, but not always what Okay. The

67
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:34,880
Speaker 1: thing that's really interesting to me about this, and I

68
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,480
Speaker 1: swear I'll get back into the script at some point,

69
00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,680
Speaker 1: is that I thought I knew this story because I

70
00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,680
Speaker 1: knew the broad strokes, and then when I looked closer,

71
00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,080
Speaker 1: it was a different picture than what I knew from

72
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,960
Speaker 1: the broad strokes, like the fact that, as we talked

73
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,760
Speaker 1: about last week, that the Finnish Civil War was not

74
00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:58,760
Speaker 1: between Soviets or Bolsheviks and capitalists but instead between social

75
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,040
Speaker 1: democrats and bootlockers who want to be part of the

76
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 1: German Empire. But then also a lot of the stuff

77
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about about what comes after

78
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,760
Speaker 1: the Winter War is going to be a similar thing

79
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:10,840
Speaker 1: where it's a different picture than I expected. It's not

80
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,280
Speaker 1: a pretty picture. We're not talking about pretty stuff today,

81
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,520
Speaker 1: which I about interesting stuff today because this is part

82
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,040
Speaker 1: two in our four part series about some snipers in

83
00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:26,680
Speaker 1: World War Two. So Simo hahe was born in nineteen

84
00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,560
Speaker 1: oh five, which is a good year to be a

85
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,680
Speaker 1: failed revolutionary in Russia. That is the only thing I

86
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,480
Speaker 1: know about nineteen oh five. Besides that there's a good

87
00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,360
Speaker 1: punk band called nineteen oh five. I don't know if

88
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:43,400
Speaker 1: they're named after the nineteen oh five revolution. Probably you

89
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 1: should look them up. Good anarcho punk from the late nineties,

90
00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,960
Speaker 1: maybe the early odds. Much like Simo, who was the

91
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,760
Speaker 1: seventh of age kids into a Lutheran family, not punk

92
00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,359
Speaker 1: Rock at all. In Karelia, which at that point was

93
00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,479
Speaker 1: part of Russian Finland, in the southeast corner next to

94
00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:08,040
Speaker 1: and now part of Russia. His family's farm wasn't a nice,

95
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,720
Speaker 1: good growing soil big old. It was like mostly forest,

96
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,039
Speaker 1: right because it's not a place full of fertile soil.

97
00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,280
Speaker 1: So he grew up a lot of hunting, and it

98
00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,599
Speaker 1: seems like his only interests. But there's a lot of

99
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,960
Speaker 1: mythologizing about him. But his main interests were hard work, hunting,

100
00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,279
Speaker 1: hanging out in the snow with his dog, and also

101
00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:30,680
Speaker 1: hard work. This guy's completely mythologized. He's maybe the best

102
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,920
Speaker 1: sniper in history. There's a lot of argument about that.

103
00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 1: And he's a national hero. So people ascribe lots of

104
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,080
Speaker 1: good Finnish values, like hard work, humility, and never expressing

105
00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:47,520
Speaker 1: emotion to him. It might be true, that's the vibe

106
00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 1: I get from me.

107
00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,800
Speaker 2: He's like a finished Johnny appleseed, but instead of trees,

108
00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,080
Speaker 2: he's planting bullets.

109
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's planting Russians.

110
00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,960
Speaker 2: Into Russians. Bullets into Russians. Was then germanyed into trees?

111
00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, put the little seeds in each bullet. The hollow

112
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,440
Speaker 1: point is for you covered up with wax. Oh, little

113
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,640
Speaker 1: oak tree. I don't know what trees are common, they're

114
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,160
Speaker 1: probably pine trees. He went to school for a hot minute,

115
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,520
Speaker 1: just long enough for reading and arithmetic, and then he

116
00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,520
Speaker 1: went back to the farm for his real love, hard

117
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,760
Speaker 1: work and snow. When he was nineteen, he went off

118
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,360
Speaker 1: to his compulsory fifteen months of military service, where he

119
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,400
Speaker 1: was an officer in a bicycle battalion, which will never

120
00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,320
Speaker 1: stop seeming both cool and funny to me every time

121
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,920
Speaker 1: bicycle battalions come up. Last time I think was that

122
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,040
Speaker 1: the Dutch had bicycle battalions before the Nazis invaded them.

123
00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,760
Speaker 1: He was a crack shot with a rifle and he

124
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,800
Speaker 1: did his fifteen months. He got out, he went back

125
00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,680
Speaker 1: to hard work and snow farming. I think he was

126
00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,520
Speaker 1: a snow farmer. He stayed active in the Civil Guard,

127
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:56,000
Speaker 1: which is basically the reserves, and he won every shooting

128
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,359
Speaker 1: contest he entered, as far as I can tell, and

129
00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,680
Speaker 1: he just like filled his house up with trope, like

130
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,880
Speaker 1: he just was like because he was in the shooting

131
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,560
Speaker 1: club and they would give awards the best could you

132
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,280
Speaker 1: imagine how annoying it would be to be in the

133
00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 1: same shooting club as this man.

134
00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,560
Speaker 2: Ah Simo showed up. Let's just go home, no, yeah today?

135
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, well then you're just like arguing who gets second?

136
00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:18,720
Speaker 1: You know, like you know what.

137
00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,680
Speaker 2: That's still like that in the competition circles in a

138
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,400
Speaker 2: different way. There's certain times you go to an event

139
00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,520
Speaker 2: and someone shows up and you just know that you're

140
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,600
Speaker 2: not first that day. Whether you wouldn't get a chance

141
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,960
Speaker 2: at first or not irrelevant. You know you're not because

142
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:29,720
Speaker 2: you know who will be.

143
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. It seems like shooting is a

144
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:41,840
Speaker 1: skill that the the gradients of levels like are. Yeah,

145
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,800
Speaker 1: it would make sense to me that there's like certain people.

146
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, like, I know a lot of people I

147
00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:46,600
Speaker 1: can out shooting a lot of people who can out

148
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 1: shoot me.

149
00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,120
Speaker 2: It's a weird thing. It's something that you can put

150
00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,200
Speaker 2: a lot of time and effort into and you can

151
00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,559
Speaker 2: always increase your skill, but there's like your skill only

152
00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,920
Speaker 2: increases based on some level. Other level of also included

153
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,840
Speaker 2: natural ability. Natural ability. He won't get you there by itself.

154
00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,320
Speaker 2: You have to practice to get it. But your natural

155
00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 2: ability plus the time you put in ultimately gives you

156
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,160
Speaker 2: your skill points whatever you want to do in like

157
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,360
Speaker 2: a role playing game kind of way. So there are

158
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,120
Speaker 2: some people whose natural ability is just there and they

159
00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,200
Speaker 2: put the time in and they will always beat you.

160
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:17,480
Speaker 2: And that's just how it works.

161
00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is why I'm glad I don't even stick

162
00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,440
Speaker 1: to shooting competitions. I stick to plinking in my yard.

163
00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,440
Speaker 1: But that's why I'm glad that I don't enter wars

164
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,840
Speaker 1: on a regular basis. I'd be more likely to enter competitions.

165
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,839
Speaker 2: Oh what war is a shooting competition? Well, the part time.

166
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:41,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he he was real humble about it though,

167
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,439
Speaker 1: which I feel like I don't wantedst to be mad

168
00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,480
Speaker 1: at right, he shows up, he's gonna win, and then

169
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,920
Speaker 1: he's gonna stand at the back of the group photo,

170
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,160
Speaker 1: which one if I'm a photographer, I kind of hate him.

171
00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,640
Speaker 1: He's five foot three, like he wants to stand at

172
00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,480
Speaker 1: the back of the photo. Finns not traditionally tall people.

173
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,320
Speaker 1: Another thing that people don't understand because people assume that

174
00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,320
Speaker 1: Fins are Swedes, and this is not true. Not a

175
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,440
Speaker 1: traditionally tall people necessarily, but five foot three is not

176
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 1: towering over anyone and he's standing at the back of

177
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:11,720
Speaker 1: these things, and so he's like gonna win, and then

178
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,640
Speaker 1: he's gonna stand at the back and like everyone's like, yeah,

179
00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:15,400
Speaker 1: you're the most humble, and he's like, I do win

180
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,400
Speaker 1: the word for most humble, but he actually seems really

181
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,560
Speaker 1: genuine about it. His rifle of choice was basically everyone

182
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,280
Speaker 1: on the planet's rifle of choice at this time, or

183
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,760
Speaker 1: at least everyone in that corner of the planet, which

184
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,760
Speaker 1: is the Mosen the Gaunt. This was developed in the

185
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,640
Speaker 1: eighteen nineties. It is a bolt action rifle. Every time

186
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,760
Speaker 1: you shoot, you have to manually cycle the next round

187
00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 1: into the chamber. I'm clearly not explaining this for Carl's sake.

188
00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 1: I'm clearly explaining this for the audience's sake. It holds

189
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,760
Speaker 1: five rounds in a fixed magazine, which means you can't

190
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,160
Speaker 1: like pop the magazine out and put in a new one.

191
00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,720
Speaker 1: The magazine stays in the gun and you feed another

192
00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,640
Speaker 1: five rounds into it. You either have to do it

193
00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,000
Speaker 1: one at a time or with what's called a stripper clip,

194
00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,160
Speaker 1: which is a little clip of metal that holds five

195
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,040
Speaker 1: rounds for faster reloading. And this was an advancement over muzzleloaders,

196
00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,560
Speaker 1: but it is not an easy gun to shoot fast.

197
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,480
Speaker 1: Is was the gun that helped the Russians and the

198
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaker 1: Russo Japanese War of nineteen oh four nineteen oh five,

199
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,920
Speaker 1: which means it didn't help them enough, because the Russians

200
00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,079
Speaker 1: lost the shit out of that war. It was used

201
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,000
Speaker 1: in by all sides of the Russian Civil War and

202
00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,600
Speaker 1: by all sides of the Winter War, which we're coming to.

203
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, the most in the Gaunt is a really interesting

204
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,199
Speaker 2: rifle in terms of it's one of the earliest bolt

205
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,880
Speaker 2: action designs that was one would say, is modern and

206
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,360
Speaker 2: viable from a modern perspective, and as many of them did.

207
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,439
Speaker 2: It held five rounds in a box magazine. It was

208
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,520
Speaker 2: chambered in a cartridge that at least in this instance

209
00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,800
Speaker 2: we're talking about here with the Russians of the Fins

210
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,240
Speaker 2: with around seven sixty by fifty four rimmed. And that's

211
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:47,160
Speaker 2: interesting because rimmed is not modern and it's even though

212
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,800
Speaker 2: the so or so the Russians now fades of gray

213
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,920
Speaker 2: there shades of gray, they still use this round and

214
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,880
Speaker 2: a rimmed round means that it has this little extended

215
00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,440
Speaker 2: piece of metal at the end of the cartridge itself

216
00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,800
Speaker 2: that is a rim. Most modern cartridges are rim list.

217
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:04,640
Speaker 2: There's a little divot cut out from the back of

218
00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,280
Speaker 2: the cartridge and that's what's used to extract the cartridge

219
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,679
Speaker 2: from the chamber. But these are rims. That means that

220
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 2: when you stack them on top of each other, imagine

221
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,839
Speaker 2: like a little pie dish on the back of each round.

222
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,560
Speaker 2: And if you stack them incorrectly and your gun isn't

223
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,199
Speaker 2: designed to work with it properly, they'll have something called

224
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,319
Speaker 2: rimlock where the rim of the cartridge in front of

225
00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,880
Speaker 2: it will prevent the rim from or behind it will

226
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 2: prevent it from feeding when you try to cycle the bolt.

227
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,280
Speaker 2: So the most in the Gaunt has this interesting system

228
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,960
Speaker 2: called the interrupter that when you cycle the bolt, it

229
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,800
Speaker 2: only allows one round to pop up into the feeding

230
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,640
Speaker 2: angle to chamber into the chamber, because if it didn't

231
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,360
Speaker 2: you could have a rimlock issue. The other gun that

232
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,680
Speaker 2: deals with that is the old Enfield from Britain with

233
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,040
Speaker 2: their rimmed round, but the Most of the God did that.

234
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,160
Speaker 2: It's also one of the earliest bolt action modern guns

235
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,400
Speaker 2: that dealt with smokeless ammunition versus black powder. And one

236
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,320
Speaker 2: of the things and the reasons you see it common

237
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,280
Speaker 2: in these environments. Is while it is I think, by

238
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,679
Speaker 2: most modern statements, not a good baul to action rifle.

239
00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,840
Speaker 2: It is slow, clunky, and hard to use, and in

240
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,959
Speaker 2: some instance jams a lot. It is sort of better

241
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,920
Speaker 2: in some ways in very low temperature environments. It does

242
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,000
Speaker 2: work well in cold.

243
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,480
Speaker 1: Okay, that makes a lot of sense with what we're

244
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,360
Speaker 1: what I've learned. My experience with the MOZONEA gaunt is

245
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 1: that it's the only gun I've ever handled that went

246
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,960
Speaker 1: off without anyone pulling the trigger.

247
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:25,800
Speaker 2: That's nice.

248
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,920
Speaker 1: My friend had a broken one. Everyone was fine because

249
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,880
Speaker 1: we followed the rules of firearms safety. And then we

250
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,520
Speaker 1: put down the gun. And then my friend, who actually

251
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:40,600
Speaker 1: worked in a gun manufacturer or something, stop shooting that gun.

252
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,559
Speaker 2: Did it happened when the bolt was closed. I bitched,

253
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,080
Speaker 2: the firing pin was frozen forward or something.

254
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,199
Speaker 1: I couldn't I don't know. This was before I knew

255
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:49,920
Speaker 1: shit about guns.

256
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,920
Speaker 2: So these things are like prolific. They made the Russians,

257
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,320
Speaker 2: the Soviets made sivee seven gazillion of these, and for

258
00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,440
Speaker 2: a long time in the market, American market, whatever, these

259
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,120
Speaker 2: were the cheapest guns you could buy. You could get

260
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,040
Speaker 2: most of the guns for like sixty bucks. You can't anymore,

261
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:04,760
Speaker 2: but you could.

262
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:06,840
Speaker 1: And I'm so sad I missed that.

263
00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:08,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean their need is a history.

264
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,040
Speaker 1: They're not great. I don't think it's like a useful

265
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:12,520
Speaker 1: firearm for anything, but.

266
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,079
Speaker 2: I mean they can be still. I mean they are

267
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,200
Speaker 2: intrinsically oz bolt actions are very accurate, right it is,

268
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:19,880
Speaker 2: and that's something we'll get into, I'm sure talking about

269
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,439
Speaker 2: today with Cimo. But it's an accurate rifle and it's

270
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,920
Speaker 2: an accurate round. The Russian manufactured ones tend to be

271
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,800
Speaker 2: very clunky and hard, and sometimes bring a hammer with you,

272
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,480
Speaker 2: a rubber mallet because they'll get stuck. Called it's just

273
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,199
Speaker 2: the bolt. We'll get stuck closed. You have to beat

274
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:38,280
Speaker 2: it open with a mallet. What's all about finish stuff

275
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,080
Speaker 2: is the fins took Russian most of the gunes, rework them,

276
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,160
Speaker 2: put better sights on them, and a finish most of

277
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,640
Speaker 2: the Gune, even though it was made on Russian machines,

278
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,400
Speaker 2: is a wholly different gun. It's actually reliable, it doesn't jam,

279
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:52,599
Speaker 2: and it's really good.

280
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,760
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, if you hear of one for sixty dollars,

281
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:56,440
Speaker 1: please let.

282
00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,880
Speaker 2: Me know finish. Most of the gunes command a premium,

283
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,520
Speaker 2: but if I see one for sixty bucks, I'll keep

284
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:00,959
Speaker 2: you in mind.

285
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:06,679
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. So so Simo. He's in this hunting

286
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,600
Speaker 1: club and he's doing his thing. He's hunting Santa Claus,

287
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 1: he's winning medals, he's pulling off wild feats like the

288
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:15,920
Speaker 1: one that get cited all the time. But I'm like,

289
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,000
Speaker 1: I can fucking dream of doing this. He would with

290
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,160
Speaker 1: a mozaa Gaunt. He would hit a target one hundred

291
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,840
Speaker 1: and fifty meters away sixteen times in one minute with

292
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,360
Speaker 1: no scope and a rifle that only holds five rounds

293
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:26,880
Speaker 1: at a time.

294
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,960
Speaker 2: That's that's a real feat from a stripper clip perspective,

295
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 2: because you mentioned a stripper clip, which is the way

296
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:34,960
Speaker 2: you get five rounds quickly back into the gun instead

297
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 2: a single one at a time. Yeah, and this is

298
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,480
Speaker 2: another deficiency of the most inda Gaunt. The stripper clips

299
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,840
Speaker 2: are wonky and tend to cut you when you use them.

300
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,360
Speaker 2: So if he's doing that, he's doing a good job

301
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,120
Speaker 2: and not hurting himself in the process. So yeah, that's impressive.

302
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't find a fucking word about his politics.

303
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,240
Speaker 1: If you know, please let me know. There are a

304
00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,280
Speaker 1: million books written Abouthim and I have not read all

305
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,520
Speaker 1: of them or most of them, and which has me

306
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 1: thinking he wasn't particularly political, because otherwise people will be

307
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,920
Speaker 1: trying really hard to claim him. Or he was like

308
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 1: kind of right wing and people don't want to talk

309
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,920
Speaker 1: about it because being right wing is embarrassing. I don't know,

310
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 1: but it seems like the things that he did were

311
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,080
Speaker 1: all legit and cool. His priorities were defending his home

312
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,360
Speaker 1: and being a cool guy who liked nature and farming

313
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,560
Speaker 1: and hard work. He talks about hunting and respecting in

314
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:27,280
Speaker 1: the forest in a way that reminds me a lot

315
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,760
Speaker 1: of the animist roots of Finnish culture honestly, Like he

316
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,840
Speaker 1: talks about like the spirit of animals that he's killing

317
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:33,920
Speaker 1: and stuff like that.

318
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never seen a thing about it. As well.

319
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 2: Everything I've ever seen about Simo is exactly that, which

320
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,960
Speaker 2: is stalwart defender of Finland and an amazing sniper.

321
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,040
Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, I think that this thing. So he's

322
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,200
Speaker 1: doing his thing, he never gets married. Then the USSR

323
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 1: invades his home and specifically his home like he is

324
00:15:54,040 --> 00:16:00,240
Speaker 1: in the line of he is in Karelia and people

325
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,600
Speaker 1: are like, he defended his home successfully in Finland State Finland.

326
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 1: He loses his home spoiler alert. During this war, the

327
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,960
Speaker 1: Soviet Union takes Karelia and his home. But he's like,

328
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,280
Speaker 1: all right, back into the army, that's what I'm here for.

329
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,760
Speaker 1: And he starts off as a machine gunner. And half

330
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,120
Speaker 1: of his kill count was a machine a submachine gun,

331
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 1: the Swami KP thirty one, and it's one of the

332
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,760
Speaker 1: first really good You talked about this a little bit before,

333
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,480
Speaker 1: but what I've learned about it is this is one

334
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,360
Speaker 1: of the first really good submachine guns. It's way more

335
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,640
Speaker 1: accurate than most submachine guns. This list has a longer

336
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,000
Speaker 1: barrel than what you think of when you think of

337
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,560
Speaker 1: a submachine gun. It's heavy as fuck for submachine gun,

338
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,480
Speaker 1: which helps with recoil and muzzle rise and later if

339
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,400
Speaker 1: you read about it, it's like a seventy one drum magazine,

340
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 1: but actually when he was using it, I believe it

341
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,840
Speaker 1: was more likely a forty round drum magazine, and then

342
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,600
Speaker 1: had an interchangeable barrel so you could swap it out

343
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 1: when it got too hot. That's what I got about it.

344
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 2: Honestly, it is one of the best submachine guns, like

345
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,240
Speaker 2: there's more undred generations stow machine guns now that are

346
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,399
Speaker 2: maybe safer for lack of a better phrase, but the

347
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,320
Speaker 2: KP thirty one, the Saomi is a fantastic gun. It's

348
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 2: well machined, it's well made, the parts are interchangeable, the

349
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 2: magazines work from one gun to another. It's incredibly reliable.

350
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:18,760
Speaker 2: It's weight, and some of them have a muzzle break

351
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,960
Speaker 2: on at A muzzle break is a little some cuts

352
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,120
Speaker 2: in the front of the barrel that reduce climb when

353
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,960
Speaker 2: it's firing in filado. It has a high rate of fire,

354
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,080
Speaker 2: typically like nine hundred rounds a minute or even a

355
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 2: little more. But with the weight and the muzzle break

356
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 2: and the capacity, you can pull what are called bursts

357
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 2: for you press the trigger and let out like say three,

358
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 2: four or five rounds and reliably hit at distances with

359
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,119
Speaker 2: that subgun that you normally couldn't with others, like one,

360
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,000
Speaker 2: two hundred even three hundred round Aimed fire at a

361
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 2: man sized target with a Sawomi is totally viable. In fact,

362
00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 2: I have a video not to promote in range, but

363
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,439
Speaker 2: I have a video on in range where we were

364
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,200
Speaker 2: shooting one of those original saamis and you can see

365
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,439
Speaker 2: the what's called beat zone where the bullets hitting the

366
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 2: berm and it's it's extremely accurate. They're a pleasure to shoot.

367
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,600
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, I get the impression he did some of

368
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:09,680
Speaker 1: it sniping with this thing.

369
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I believe he did a lot of work

370
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:13,719
Speaker 2: with the song. With the song, he did a lot.

371
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:15,479
Speaker 1: He absolute a lot of work with it.

372
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's because sniping is always considered like, I don't

373
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 2: want to get too far and what we're getting into now.

374
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,720
Speaker 2: So many people think about sniping is this long range

375
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,320
Speaker 2: precision work, and there's some truth to that sometimes, but

376
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 2: sniping is actually more field craft than it is precision fire.

377
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,439
Speaker 1: And that actually seems to be like most of the

378
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 1: people that he shoots are going to be one hundred,

379
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,679
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty meters away from him when he's

380
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 1: shooting them, which is very different than like modern sniper stuff,

381
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:46,440
Speaker 1: as I understand, where you have a lot of like

382
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,359
Speaker 1: killing people at a half mile whatever, you know they're

383
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 1: in the forest and shit. Yeah, and the fact that

384
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 1: he knows a fucking forest is why he's so effective.

385
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:56,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

386
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. In Finland, like the idea of shots, long shots

387
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,600
Speaker 2: are not a commonality there. Like you said, it's almost

388
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 2: all forested. There's not a lot of large areas to

389
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,399
Speaker 2: see for very far field craft applies, and so yeah,

390
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 2: making one hundred or one hundred and fifty meters hits

391
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,399
Speaker 2: with a KP thirty one sub machine gun is is

392
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,120
Speaker 2: totally doable.

393
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:24,400
Speaker 1: Okay, So the USSR invades and they have tanks, planes, artillery,

394
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 1: and just fuck tons of people. No one in history

395
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 1: has cared less about the value of his own people

396
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,400
Speaker 1: than Joseph Stalin. If there is a problem, throw Soviets

397
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 1: at it. That is how he gets shit done. On

398
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,879
Speaker 1: the other side, the Fins have a grand total of

399
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,879
Speaker 1: thirty two tanks one hundred and fourteen aircraft compared to

400
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 1: like three thousand and four thousand, three thousand tanks and

401
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 1: four thousand airplanes on the Soviet side. But they've got

402
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 1: skis and unlike the Soviets, they've got weather appropriate clothing,

403
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 1: which is funny because the Soviets are even from a

404
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,360
Speaker 1: fucking cold place.

405
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,920
Speaker 2: Not as cold as Finland. Yeah, at least not as cold,

406
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 2: or at least not as in terms of maybe that's

407
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,440
Speaker 2: not fair. They have places that are as cold as Finland.

408
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 1: Right, Soldier is not equipped or a place like Finland totally.

409
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 1: The Finns mostly don't have uniforms. They just have a

410
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 1: military hat and whatever clothes they were able to show

411
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 1: up to do to even which means that they have

412
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,719
Speaker 1: a lot of white clothes for snow and they're actually camouflaged.

413
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 1: They they've got morale on their side, and they grew

414
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 1: up in these woods, and so they fuck the Soviets up.

415
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,359
Speaker 1: At the end of this one hundred and five I

416
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 1: think day war, Stalin loses like one hundred and fifty

417
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 1: thousand soldiers. Finns lose about twenty six thousand. That's a

418
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 1: really good I don't want to be one of the

419
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 1: twenty six thousand to die, right, but that's a fucking

420
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 1: good ratio. The Soviets are still gonna win sort of,

421
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 1: but they're not going to steamroll like they thought they would.

422
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: And it is quite likely that this fierce defense is

423
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 1: the reason that Finland is around today. I don't know

424
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,239
Speaker 1: whether or not Stalin could have held Finland or not,

425
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 1: but Simo specifically, we'll get to the quote later speaks

426
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,360
Speaker 1: about how this is why there's a Finland. So he's

427
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 1: a machine gunner and he's fighting gorilla style. He's fighting

428
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 1: under a man named arna Edward Utulnen aka the Terror

429
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: of Morocco, who is not a good person. He fought

430
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 1: in the Finished Civil War on the White Side when

431
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 1: he was fourteen years old. I think he was like

432
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: helping load ammunition or something, and then he went and

433
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 1: there wasn't enough war happening, so he went and joined

434
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 1: the French Foreign Legion. He fought in the colonial forces

435
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 1: occupying Morocco, earning his shitty nickname. But apparently he didn't

436
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 1: like really like he wasn't like such an effective soldier

437
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: that like people were like the Terror of Morocco while

438
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: he was in the French Foreign Legion. It's when he

439
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 1: got back to Finland people are like, oh, where were

440
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 1: you Morocco? Oh yeah, you're like the Terror of Morocco,

441
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: aren't you. There's this probably apocryphal story about his leadership

442
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 1: style where he one time joining a firefight in order

443
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: to convince his friends his soldier sorry not friends, he's

444
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: an asshole, to convince them to not worry. He pulls

445
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 1: out a chair and he just like sits there on

446
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: the firing line. He's like, what the fuck fighting fucking

447
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 1: cowards or whatever you know, which is always like a

448
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: cool move when the like officer fights in the front line.

449
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 2: Whatever.

450
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: Anyway, he's also known for getting drunk and beating his

451
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: own soldiers. He's not a cool guy at all. His

452
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 1: own nephew wrote, and I'm gonna quote this, Arnae was

453
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,199
Speaker 1: a bad person. That's the quote. I didn't cut the

454
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: sentence short. There's not a butt after it. The full

455
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 1: quote is like a paragraph about like people call him

456
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 1: a war hero. I guess that's technically true. God, he's

457
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: a piece of shit.

458
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like if like speaking from like just finish,

459
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 2: like my knowledge of Finish culture, that sentence is all

460
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 2: you need to know. That says it, all right, we

461
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 2: don't need to add more to that. This is Matt person. Okay,

462
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take your I'm gonna believe that.

463
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what you should believe also, you

464
00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:01,479
Speaker 1: should believe that every one of these ads for goods

465
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 1: and services was made in good faith, with your best

466
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: interests at heart, and not within the context of a

467
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: capitalist system that only rewards short term gain of profit.

468
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 2: Nothing says altruism like corporation. So I believe you.

469
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta be rich to be a philanthropist. You

470
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: gotta steal everyone's shit in order to here's some advertisers

471
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: and we're back. Sosimo started off not as a sniper, right,

472
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: but as a unit leader submachine gunning Russians. Overall. The

473
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: Fins had a strategy where like, Okay, so the Russians

474
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 1: have like tanks and shit, and there's only certain paths

475
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 1: and roads that they can move on. Like one thing

476
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: I read was like it took a lot while to

477
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 1: like pack down the snow enough to get a fucking

478
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: tank across, right, So there was a lot of long,

479
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 1: single file marches into Finland. Basically there was a lot

480
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:02,959
Speaker 1: of like, let's get ambushed, and so the Fins were like, Okay,

481
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 1: we can do that for you. They would cut off

482
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: the tanks from the rest of their support and then

483
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: just fuck them up by using Molotov cocktails. I am

484
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: not going to tell you how to make. You can

485
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: look it up yourself with a VPN, but it is

486
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: a homemade firebomb that is easiest shit to make. I

487
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: am not advocating that anyone do it because the cost

488
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: benefit analysis of making them molotovs in the US is grim.

489
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 1: They will not advocate anyone break any laws.

490
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: You know, Molotov got a cocktail and Ribbentrop did not.

491
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: That's true. That's fucked up. That's not your range. Fuck,

492
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: So the history of the Molotov cocktail. Fortunately, I James

493
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 1: Stout Channel zero network what no Cool Zone Media. The

494
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: problem is that I'm on two podcasts networks with the

495
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: named fucking initials basically CZN and CZM, and I get

496
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: that mixed up constantly. Cool Zone media journalist James Stout,

497
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: that's an article. Oh, he's cool. Most famous as a bicyclist.

498
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: He has an article about the origin of Molotovs in

499
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: the Winter War quote. The war began with a bombardment

500
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: of Helsinki, which Soviet foreign Minister Vitchislav Molotov claimed was

501
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: a humanitarian aid drop. The Fins, retaining their dark humor,

502
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: called the bombs Molotov's bread baskets. Soon everything bad was

503
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,719
Speaker 1: associated with Molotov. Blackout curtains used to stop bombers from

504
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: spotting urban areas from overhead by blocking out visible light

505
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: from the windows at night, were called Molotov curtains, and

506
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: bombing planes were called Molotov's chickens. So the Fins found

507
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: a great pairing for the bread baskets and churned out

508
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 1: at an industrial scale by distilleries the Molotov cocktail with

509
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 1: which to toast the invader, which.

510
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: By the way, if I might add, when you look

511
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 2: into this, if you do listener, the Finnish Smotov cocktails

512
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 2: are actually interestingly better than what you think of. They're

513
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: not as crude. They're actually produced and manufactured and almost

514
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: like how I put this, they're not they're not they're

515
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: not they're not rogue at all. There's a sign that's

516
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 2: better than most. Yeah.

517
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 1: Oh, interesting, they have.

518
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 2: Their own ignition systems and such that are better.

519
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: Okay, that's actually really interesting.

520
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, they made their own thing. Not to go too

521
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 2: deep into it. Instead of just a burning rag, they

522
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 2: actually had like burning flares that were taped to the glass.

523
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: No, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, yeah, I

524
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: just know someone who went to jail for At a talk,

525
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: someone asked him how he had already gone to jail

526
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: for burning some shit as part of the Animal Liberation Front.

527
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: And at the talk someone was like, oh, how did

528
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: you burn the things? And he described how he burned

529
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: the things, and so then he went back to prison. Yeah,

530
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 1: I'm like real fucking nervous about that shit.

531
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: No, totally, but it is an interesting topic and if

532
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: you look at it, it's interesting to see how the

533
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: Finnish Molotov cocktail is actually greatly improved over the let's

534
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 2: say original design.

535
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that makes sense. Do you know it was

536
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: originally a fascist invention?

537
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 3: No?

538
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 2: Actually didn't.

539
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: The Spanish fascist in nineteen thirty six, under Franco invented

540
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: the bottle bomb, as we understand it now.

541
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 2: Didn't know that. That's fascinating consider now it's seen.

542
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: Now, I know absolutely it's the weapon of the working class.

543
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 2: It's like the Molotov cocktail and the machete, right, those

544
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 2: two things are like so iconic.

545
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally. Both have been used by good people

546
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: and bad people.

547
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

548
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: Nineteen thirty six, Spanish fascist troops started using them, and

549
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: then soon enough both sides of the Spanish Civil War,

550
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: including the good guys, were using them. But they got

551
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 1: their name during the Winter War a couple of years later,

552
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: and they are a great way to fuck up a tank.

553
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: I actually don't know as much about I've heard. Basically,

554
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: it was like the old tanks weren't enclosed, and so

555
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: if you like set the outside on fire. It's like

556
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: causing a lot of problems and it like forces the

557
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: tank people to get out and you can shoot them

558
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 1: or something.

559
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 2: The rear of the tanks usually have a ventilation system

560
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: which allows for the intake of air for the people

561
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: inside to actually survive, or ventilation system for the actual

562
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: engine because it needs air to be able to do

563
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 2: combustion and drive. And so the target on the tank

564
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 2: where the ventilation systems at the rear. So if you

565
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 2: threw fire into that, it would leak down into the

566
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 2: ventilation system and either a make it impossible to survive

567
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 2: inside by breathing, or it would choke out the engine

568
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: or get to a part that would cause the rest

569
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 2: of the tank to combust.

570
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, and they were I love when there's a

571
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: I remember reading this article a million years ago called

572
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: bashing the laser rangefinder with a rock about like low

573
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: tech solutions to modern problems, you know, mm hmm. Yeah.

574
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: So they have these low tech solutions to modern problems,

575
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: but they do it at an industrial scale, and they

576
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: do it with their own actual carefully engineered they put

577
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: their own on it. Eh ah. Yes, So Finns on

578
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: skis are fucking up the tanks, burning the shit out

579
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: of him after cutting them off from everyone else, and

580
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: pretty soon Simo's commander needs a specific Russian sniper takeout

581
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: taken out who keeps killing Finnish officers and I think

582
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: this guy's off. His officer Arna is like, I don't,

583
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: I don't want to get shot, Hey, Simo, can you go?

584
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: Can you go shoot a dude? And Simo's like, yeah,

585
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: I can go shoot a dude, and he shifts over

586
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: to sniper and counter sniper duty. Back to the mozen Nagaunt,

587
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: he was offered one with a scope. Supposedly, he had

588
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: no interest for a few reasons. First, and I think

589
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: this is the actual main reason. The first and foremost,

590
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: he'd never trained with a scope. That just wasn't this,

591
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: that wasn't what he's used to. But this worked out

592
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: really well for him. One, you have to raise your

593
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: head an inch or two or higher to cite a scope.

594
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: Two And if you're trying to get shot, the higher

595
00:29:58,080 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: you lift your head, the more likely area to get

596
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: you shot. Apparently the glass could fog up in the cold,

597
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: and this is minus forty degrees out And the cool

598
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: thing about minus forty degrees is I don't have to

599
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: tell you whether it's celsius or fahrenheit because it's the

600
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: one place where they both meet.

601
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: Ah, the neutral ground of temperatures.

602
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, the dead Man, but that's land of.

603
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: That's specifically true about the most and na gaunt sniper,

604
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 2: which is the most common iteration. It's called the ninety

605
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: one thirty. But the scope is really high off of

606
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: the comb of the stock where you would normally rest

607
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: your cheek to look down the iron sights, so you

608
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: do this thing called chin weld where you kind of

609
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: rest your chin on the stock to see it. And

610
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 2: the scope isn't bor centric. It's kind of off to

611
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: the left of the actual rifle bore, and so sides

612
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: fog ammunition in it. Well, it's just kind of up

613
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: and high, so you can get your hands and you

614
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: can't use stripper clips anymore when it's gotta Yeah, there's

615
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: another example of going with iron sights. Because the scope

616
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: is on there, you can no longer use the stripper

617
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 2: clip and feed quickly. You have to feed into wividual

618
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: rounds one at a time. Yeah, But it's also so

619
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 2: the scope has to be higher on offset so that

620
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: you can actually throw the bolt and cycle the gun.

621
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: Ah okay, okay.

622
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 2: All that turns into harder to shoot. So him being

623
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: already proficient with iron sights makes a lot of sense

624
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: that he would stick with it.

625
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, totally. And then the other thing is that

626
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: half of how he killed enemy snipers is he'd like

627
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: wait till the sun reflected off of him. Like he

628
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: literally wait all day till the sun was in the

629
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: right place reflect off of the enemy sniper off the scope,

630
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: and then shoot them in the face. And Simo wanted

631
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: to go as long as possible before he got shot

632
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: in the face.

633
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: So that's a usual you know what. I spend every

634
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 2: day of my life trying to not get shot in

635
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: the face. That's a good goal.

636
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually take it for granted.

637
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 2: But the United States, you never know.

638
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: I know, I'm like, wait, I got my concealed Gary

639
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: permit because Nazi sent me pictures of my family, Like anyway,

640
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: fuck those people. So he's the original no scope guy,

641
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: and he is fucking methodical. He works sometimes alone, sometimes

642
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: with a spotter. This actually like fucks up his like

643
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: kill count, you know, and like as if it's as

644
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: if life is a video game. Because only confirmed kills

645
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: get to count, and if no one's around to see

646
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: if a tree the Soviet falls in the forest. So

647
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: he goes out at night. He gets himself nice and

648
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: cozy in a spot, uses natural cover, lots of snow.

649
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: He wears all white. He wraps a white bandage around

650
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: the stock of his rifle. And apparently he shot. I

651
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: only found this in one place, But apparently he shot

652
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: from a sitting position, not prone, because and because he

653
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: is in a foxhole natural depression anyway, and he's not

654
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: very tall. This is not a problem for him. I

655
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: mean it clearly worked. Then the sun would rise, he

656
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: would do a murderer thirty he aimed center masks instead

657
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: of for the heads, sorry video game players of the world.

658
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: And then the sun would set and he'd leave. And

659
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: before he when he was setting up, he'd pack down

660
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: the snow in from of his position, so the report

661
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: didn't set up a cloud of snow. Other versions that

662
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: he poured a little bit of water on it so

663
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: that it would freeze. And he also sometimes supposedly kept

664
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: snow in his mouth to keep his breath from showing.

665
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: He sustained himself by chewing on bread and sugar that

666
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: he just like had in his pockets, and then he

667
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: laid still in the middle of the fucking winter, coldest

668
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: winter in years, and waited. The Soviets had green uniforms,

669
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: made them very easy to pick out and then pick off.

670
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: And of course it didn't help that Stalin had just

671
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: purged seventy to eighty percent of all of his top

672
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: leadership during one of his fits of paranoia, so there's

673
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: not a lot of good leadership in the Soviet Army

674
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: at this point. There's one story that is probably apocryphal,

675
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: but one of my Finnish friends told me about Semo.

676
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: I remember when I first like asked my Finnish anarchist

677
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: friends about Simo. I was like expecting them to all

678
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: be like, are you fucking kidding me? Fuck, that guy's

679
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: a national hero, and instead, at least the person I

680
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: talked to was like, oh, my god, let me tell

681
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: you stories about him. And one of the stories I

682
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: heard is that he would basically just get buried under

683
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: the snow and then he'd wait for a rabbit to

684
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: go over his head and then he would like stick

685
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: a knife up through the snow to catch the rabbit

686
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: and then like bring it down in and eat it raw.

687
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: I have no source on this besides a fucking drunk

688
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: friend of mine at a party, but I wouldn't put

689
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: it past Semo is what I'll tell you now.

690
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: I mean it kind of tracks and like everything you

691
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 2: just mentioned about what Simo would made him effective at

692
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: what he was doing was like mentioned earlier in the discussion,

693
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 2: was field craft not to undermine the marksmanship, but this

694
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: is all field.

695
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: Craft totally, no, that is yeah. I remember like reading

696
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: something that was like with no sniper experience, and I'm like,

697
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: the guy was a moose hunter since he was like

698
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: the baby like anyway, whatever, Soon he gets the nickname

699
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: the White Death. The general version of the stories that

700
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: the Russian started calling this because they're afraid of him.

701
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: The far more likely version of the story is that

702
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 1: the Finns started saying that the Russians started calling him

703
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: in this because it's because it's good propaganda to be

704
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: like everyone's afraid of the White Death, which apparently was

705
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: also like the word for just like dying in the

706
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: fucking snow is the White Death.

707
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: I don't know, what's a cool name. I think you

708
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 2: should take it. It's awesome.

709
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, absolutely, someone did. Yeah. Absolutely. The Russians

710
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: are really fucking not excited about him. The Fins also

711
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: started calling him the magic shooter, but no one mentions

712
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: that nickname in the English language accounts because it does

713
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: not sound cool or metal in English. Sorry, magic shooter,

714
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: white death translates better. Several times Soviets call down artillery

715
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: strikes just to get him to flush him out, but

716
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: he wouldn't flush. He actually apparently like turned down orders,

717
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: like his commander was like, get the fuck out of here.

718
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: They're fucking artillery, and he's like, I'm good, and he

719
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: just sits there and he lets the artillery come and

720
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: go like a bad storm. One time shrapnel caught his

721
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: coat on fire. Apparently there's other versions where he lost

722
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: his coat in it, but it like fucks up his coat,

723
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: but it doesn't get him. Enemy snipers are constantly trying

724
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: to hunt him, but they all die mysteriously, and by

725
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: mysteriously I mean from bullets that Simo has shot them

726
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: with the same Finnish friend telling me apocryphal stories says,

727
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: and one time shooting people with a rifle wasn't effective enough.

728
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: Too many people were coming through the past, so we

729
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: just went down to the enemy camp and submachine gun

730
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: submachine gun to them all down only grammatically correct, And

731
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean he absolutely killed a fuck

732
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: ton people with submachine gun and a sniper rifle. I

733
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: don't know if that particular story is true or not. Overall,

734
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 1: the war wasn't going well for anyone. The Russians wanted

735
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: to steamroll, but no steamrolling was possible, kind of the

736
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: original like Zurig Rush Army. The Finns wanted to drive

737
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: the Russians out, but no driving out was possible either,

738
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: And in February a new wave of Russians hit the

739
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: country and the Fins fell back to a line that

740
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: they were trying to hold. Sniping wasn't the only thing

741
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: he was doing. He was still a commander, he was

742
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: still fighting as a machine gunner, and during some battles,

743
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 1: and during one battle, like a week maybe before the

744
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: end of the war, and exploding bullet hit him in

745
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: the face. Now I know what you're thinking, Carl, you've

746
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: never heard of exploding bullet before. But I googled and

747
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 1: I found a video explaining exploding bullets with a nice

748
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: man named Carl explaining it, which is basically that these

749
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: bullets were initially designed to help zero rifles, making little

750
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: explosions when they hit, So maybe it's a little less

751
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: like some of the what I read is like and

752
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: those evil Soviets used exploding rifles because they hate humanity.

753
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: It sounds like these were more like what was used

754
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: for piercing armor. And also, if you're shooting some in

755
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: the face, you're shooting some in the face. What's your

756
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: take on this?

757
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 2: Actually? And even more than that, they were used most

758
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 2: The most common use of the exploding bullet or was

759
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 2: for hit indicators from coaxial machine guns and tanks, so

760
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 2: when the tanks would fire, they would fire machine gun

761
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 2: rounds to try and see if their ranging estimate was correct,

762
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 2: and when the bullets would hit the enemy tank, these

763
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: exploding rounds would make visible sparks and explosions and smoke

764
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 2: when they were hitting the armor of the enemy tank,

765
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 2: which helped them zero the main gun. That same concept

766
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: of technology got put into aircraft for armour piercing inscyndianary,

767
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 2: which is rounds that are intended to cause fire or

768
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 2: flame inside the tanks and the gas tanks of enemy aircraft.

769
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: They are also standard rifle rounds that can be fired

770
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 2: in standard rifles most of the time, and so they

771
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 2: started getting used very much so on the Eastern Front

772
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: as well as in Finland by both sides or high

773
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 2: value targets, because once they penetrate a couple inches of material,

774
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 2: they detonate, and of course if you are doing that

775
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,479
Speaker 2: in a person's chest, that is a confirmed kill for sure.

776
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 2: In fact, yeah, oh, we show some of that in

777
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 2: the video which we shoot this ballistic soap stuff and

778
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: you can see them detonating. It's really just an inertial

779
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 2: firing pin with a primer and some some sort of

780
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 2: explosive compound and when the bullet accelerates, the firing pin

781
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: hits the primer and then it causes to detonate inside

782
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:27,439
Speaker 2: the target. And Okay, what's interesting about that is it's

783
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 2: again a Navy, not cool person that didn't do cool stuff.

784
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: But there's a book sniper on the Eastern Front which

785
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 2: was a Nazi sniper, and he talks about the use

786
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: of this ammunition against high value targets, typically Russian or

787
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 2: Soviet officers, and describes in grim detail about their heads

788
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 2: turning into like mist and such from it.

789
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: No, that makes a lot of sense, because I've read

790
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different accounts about this, particular like

791
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: his injury that took him out and stuff, you know,

792
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: and some was like a lucky shot, and some was

793
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: like it was an enemy sniper, And that makes an

794
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: enemy sniper seem way more likely, right because if it

795
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: was like because there was almost certainly someone who's like,

796
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: at any given battle, it's like, your job is to

797
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: kill Semo.

798
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 2: You know, if Simo was your target, it would make

799
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 2: sense to use explosive ammunition for a high value target

800
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: because if you got the hit, you would hope that

801
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 2: it would be amazingly he survived it, but yep, it's

802
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 2: not likely to survive and exploding around yet they're quite lethal.

803
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. On March sixth, nineteen forty, Simo took an

804
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: exploding bullet to the jaw, destroyed half of his face.

805
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: He went down thousand versions of how he was saved.

806
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: The version that seems to line up the most with

807
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: his own recollections is that basically people were like, we

808
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: are not fucking leaving until we find Semo, Like, we

809
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 1: are not leaving this, and so probably at the bottom

810
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 1: of a pile of bodies, someone's like, oh, that leg's

811
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: twitching or whatever, you know, But he wasn't dead. He

812
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: was just missing half of his face and looked real

813
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: dead and was unconscious for most of it. Ragged off

814
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 1: to safety. By the time he came to the war

815
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 1: was over and the Fins had lost after one hundred

816
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: and five day war. He read a newspaper report about

817
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: his own death and sent a correction to the paper.

818
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: Stalin The way that the war had come to an

819
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 1: end is Stalin had kept trying to install this puppet government, right,

820
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: so he wasn't negotiating with the actual Finnish government. He

821
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: couldn't because he didn't respect them. They weren't a legitimate force.

822
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: But somewhere around like January or so, I can't remember exactly,

823
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: he gave up. He was like, all right, no one

824
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: fucking believes my fake government. I guess I'll start talking

825
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: to the actual Finnish government. And so the Finns had

826
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: to give up half of Karelia, which was Simo's homeland,

827
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 1: as well as the city of Viporo, which is one

828
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: of the largest cities in the country. There's different It

829
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: was either the second biggest or the fourth biggest, depending

830
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: on which population survey you're looking at. But it was

831
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: a big fucking important place. A huge chunk of the

832
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: Finnish population lived in this area. It's a small country

833
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: and most of the people live way in the south,

834
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: and Karelia is as south as you can get in Finland.

835
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: At first, the government is like, no, you can't fucking

836
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: have our second biggest city. What the fuck? And they

837
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: kept writing the Western power Sweden and France for military support.

838
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: They kept being like, hey, we we're democracy, we don't

839
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: want to become Bolsheviks. Excuse you give us some stuff.

840
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: And everyone's like, oh, what's that. I can't hear you

841
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: over the sound of not listening to you. Sweden, I

842
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: think I think they had this thing where like they

843
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: were like, look, we're not going to stop volunteers from

844
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: going over, but we're not going to do anything beyond that.

845
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: I think I might be mixing that up with like

846
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: I read about like five Finish wars to write this

847
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: fucking thing. Anyway, twelve percent of the Finnish population has

848
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: to flee the conquered territory because they're genociders, right. That

849
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: is the thing is the people who just genocided all

850
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,399
Speaker 1: the Finns took a bunch of Finland. Everyone has to leave,

851
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 1: so they lost, but they took out so many Russians

852
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: in the process. Stalin himself said, and I cannot tell

853
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: if this is a direct quote or paraphrase, but I'm

854
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: gonna present it as a quote. The Finns were a

855
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: primitive people, the inhabitants of marshes and forests, but they

856
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: had stubbornly defended their independence, unlike the Belgians, civilized people

857
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: who surrendered right away. If they had been Fins instead

858
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: of Belgians, I thought they would have fought hard against

859
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: the German aggression. So Stalin did this like weird kind

860
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: of racist, like you know, oh, you primitive strong people,

861
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: you backwards fighty assholes anyway, whatever kind.

862
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,479
Speaker 2: Of shades of something you'd hear way a way later

863
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 2: in a much different conflict with two different countries of

864
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 2: the Vietcong.

865
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: Oh huh, I don't know about that.

866
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 2: That's how they were labeled too.

867
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

868
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: So Simo exits world history at this point. I mean,

869
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: we know what happened to him. He doesn't disappear, but

870
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: he wanted to fight in the ongoing hostilities against the USSR,

871
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: and we'll get to those. But he was too wounded.

872
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: He had twenty six surgeries and his face was reconstructed

873
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: with grafts from his hip. He lived a long and

874
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: healthy life, probably not a happy life. He preferred to

875
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: never marry. He just hunted moose and raised dogs and

876
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,439
Speaker 1: tried to stay out of the limelight. But he would

877
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: like go hunting with like the president and shit, there's

878
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: this centrist guy from the Agrarian Party named Kekkonen who

879
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: was president of Finland for twenty six years, who was

880
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: anti communist but also anti fascist. He was a centrist guy.

881
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. Simo struggled with PTSD. It seems like

882
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, talks about him like having night terrors the

883
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: rest of his life. Most reports say that he was

884
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: fairly lonely and he was isolated by from society by

885
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 1: his experience, and like mostly only hung out with fellow vets.

886
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: He wrote a memoir and he wrote it like right

887
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: after he's recovering in the hospital, I think, and he

888
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,439
Speaker 1: refers to the around five hundred people he'd killed as

889
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: his sin list. It is unclear to me. Someone probably knows,

890
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: but no one I read about nos. No, it's unclear

891
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: if this is an earnest expression of like penance or

892
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: whether it was this dry, finish humor. It doesn't like.

893
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: I don't think he's like sorry, right, but like you

894
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 1: kind of can't tell whether it's just a dry, dry

895
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: humor or whether it was a you know, a religious

896
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: thing in a more penitent way. When asked if he

897
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: felt remorse near his ninety sixth birthday, he said I

898
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: did what I was told to do as well as

899
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: I could. There would be no Finland unless everyone else

900
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: had done the same, And he also talked about who

901
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 1: he didn't hate, the Soviet soldiers, even though he knew

902
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 1: that he had to fight them. His actual sniper count

903
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: is hard to confirm. Five hundred five is the most

904
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: common number of confirmed kills. It's also the lowest number

905
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: by far, of the people of what is ascribed to him.

906
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: It's been a while since you told me there's something

907
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: I need to buy.

908
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: Oh what? I I can't believe I left that out.

909
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: If you buy a cool People Who Did Cool Stuff notebook,

910
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: you can keep track of your confirmed Nope, Nope, probably shouldn't. No, Uh,

911
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: if you what did we advertised last time, and there

912
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: was like something I liked advertising last time. Say something

913
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: more positive, go.

914
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 2: Do.

915
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't get your dogs from breeders. Get your dogs

916
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: from rescues, because you should be raised right to understand

917
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: that that's where dogs come from, the ones who need homes.

918
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: That's dogs are great. Uh. Also these other ads that

919
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 1: if you were This.

920
00:46:55,120 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 3: Podcast is sponsored by Anderson. My dog, yeah skewed me.

921
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:06,760
Speaker 1: It's true. Sophie was like bleeding out in the street

922
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 1: after getting by a car and then ran out.

923
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 2: There and apply to tourniquet.

924
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

925
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 2: It's an impressive dog.

926
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 3: I know. Yeah, doesn't even have thumbs. It's incredible.

927
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: No fucking good at it. Here's some other ads. We're back. Okay,

928
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: So his actual sniper count is hard to confirm. Five

929
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: hundred and five is the most common number of confirmed kills,

930
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: but this is the lowest number also that has ever

931
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: ascribed to him. There's an expectation that this leaves off

932
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: a lot like times where multiple people shot the same

933
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: target or no one was around to confirm. I cannot

934
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: imagine being in a shooting war and then being like

935
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: fucking legoless and gamely being like forty three forty four like,

936
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: I just I can't imagine this process. Some people think

937
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: that the number is closer to eight hundred. Other people

938
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 1: are like, look, this guy's like real good, but this

939
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: is all propaganda. The number is probably like two hundred

940
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: or something. I actually think that the around five hundred

941
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: is a pretty safe I guess he is not a braggart.

942
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 1: That is not a thing that one get ascribed to

943
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: this man who stands at the back of his fucking photos.

944
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: You know, he's seen as the most successful sniper in history,

945
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: which is incredibly disputed and probably not true. And also whatever,

946
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's non Western snipers with counts that

947
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: are presented as way higher. Those are harder to verify.

948
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: There's also a fuck ton of Soviet snipers from the

949
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: war against the Nazis with very similar accounts to his.

950
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: And then the other thing is that life is in

951
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: a video game and we don't actually keep score this way.

952
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: I don't know what have you heard about, Like is

953
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: it in your world? Is it like, oh, yeah, no,

954
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 1: seme as number one, or is it like, oh, it's disputed, or.

955
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 2: There's a handful of these of these famous snipers that

956
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: are It's interesting sometimes their fame doesn't come from their

957
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 2: supposed kill count, but from other things they've done in

958
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 2: terms of like amazing shots or whatever. Like. Yeah, Carlos

959
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 2: Halfcock is an example of that. His marksmanship was like

960
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 2: considered legendary and some of the things he did in

961
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 2: that regard. But and that also has a high number

962
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 2: as well. But in general, I that the the consensus

963
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 2: seems to be that Simo might be, if not the top,

964
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 2: he's He's definitely right up there.

965
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And what matters the reason he's on Kobeble

966
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: did cool stuff. One is because I want to talk

967
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: about something real messy, and two because he was a

968
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 1: farmer who, alongside countless others, went and did what he

969
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: had to do to save his homeland from genocidal invaders

970
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: and got shot in the face for it, and then

971
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: tried to survive and did survive the rest of his

972
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: life dealing with the ramifications of what had happened, and

973
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: in the process he and his compatriots likely save Finland.

974
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: And you know, obviously this completely transformed his life and

975
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: likely not for the better. But I don't blame his

976
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: actions for that. I blame Stalin for that, just clearly

977
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: and simply It's worth talking about the rest of Finnish

978
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: history in World War Two, though, because it's one of

979
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,760
Speaker 1: the messiest political webs I've ever seen in my life.

980
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 1: I remember once I was like started reading the Finnish

981
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: history and I was like talking to my girlfriend and

982
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, when I was like teenager

983
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: or whatever, and I was like, wow, you fins like

984
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: you never did anything wrong because I'm an American and

985
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: all I come from is I'm a white American, so

986
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: I come from all we did is wrong, right, And

987
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: I don't even mean that. I guess Civil War was

988
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: all right when we stopped the Confederacy, but like, overall,

989
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: we're not.

990
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 2: There's a couple of shining moments, but.

991
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, like D Day and yeah, D.

992
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 2: Day's pretty amazing, right, Yeah, there's some stuff that's good.

993
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 2: There's just it's it's moments of good. The best thing

994
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 2: I ever heard was someone that said to me on

995
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 2: in Range and maybe I don't know if they quoted

996
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 2: this or they quoted someone else, but American history is

997
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 2: punctuated with doing the right thing after exhausting all the

998
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 2: other choices.

999
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is it. Yep, even like trying to stay

1000
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 1: out of World War two or trying to not abolish slavery. Yeah,

1001
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: so I remember I saw. I was talking to my

1002
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: girlfriend about it. I was like, you didn't do anything

1003
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: wrong in history and she's like nope. And then I

1004
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: like I sorrow. Week later, I was like, you were

1005
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: an axis power and she's like, ooh, you got me.

1006
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 1: And that is Yeah, that is the finish attitude about this.

1007
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: They were not technically an axis power in that they

1008
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: did not sign the you were an axis power?

1009
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 2: What is it?

1010
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 1: The tripe prior to a pact.

1011
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 2: But they were driving around Nazi Nazi armor like the

1012
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,240
Speaker 2: Stug three. In fact, if you go to the Finnish

1013
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: Armor Museum, there's a bunch of what would have been

1014
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 2: like German era Nazi technology tanks and uh huh. Their

1015
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 2: helmets are the stahl helm right, they're using all of

1016
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 2: this German gear. Yeah, because the Germans were supplementing their

1017
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 2: war effort against the Soviets seeing it, you know, because

1018
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 2: at that point the Germans were clearly losing on the

1019
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:10,240
Speaker 2: Eastern Front. Always were really, they just didn't know it yet. Yeah, okay,

1020
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 2: And but forgiving a bunch of gear to the Finns

1021
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 2: was like they saw the Finns as there as one

1022
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 2: of the few allies that was actually successful against the Soviets,

1023
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 2: and so, yeah, they used a lot of Nazi equipment

1024
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 2: and met with Nazi leaders. There's necessarily notes about Mannerheim

1025
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 2: meeting with Himmler and it's interesting and they talk about

1026
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 2: the tactics of the war, and then there's a quote

1027
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 2: and a paraphrasing where later Mannheim was like, what an

1028
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: unimpressive man. So they had this weird relationship in which

1029
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 2: they used the gear and were allies but didn't necessarily

1030
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 2: like it.

1031
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm going to talk about some of that

1032
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 1: because they yeah, it's okay. So Hitler sees Stalin failed

1033
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 1: to conquer this tiny, sparselyss sparsely populated Finland, and suddenly

1034
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: Hitler gets an idea, And the idea is, what if

1035
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: Stalin is a fucking push This turned out to be

1036
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: an incorrect assessment of the situation, luckily for the rest

1037
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 1: of the world. A year or so later, on June

1038
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,720
Speaker 1: twenty second, nineteen forty one, Hitler betrayed his friend Stalin

1039
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: and invaded in Operation Barbarossa. Basically, Germany had no oil

1040
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: production and didn't want to rely on foreign aid. That

1041
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 1: is the quickest version I've ever heard. It seemed to

1042
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: make sense to me.

1043
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a quote from Hitler where he

1044
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 2: essentially said, you kick in the door and the whole

1045
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 2: rotten structure will come falling down.

1046
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, worked just as well as it did for Napoleon.

1047
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: Don't invade Finland and the winner and don't invade the

1048
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: USSR basic rules of life or Russia whatever, Okay, And

1049
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 1: so Finland helped Germany invade the USSR. Finland joined World

1050
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: War Two on the side of Nazi Germany in what

1051
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: is called the Continuation War. For three years, they fought

1052
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 1: against the USSR and helped the Nazis do the same.

1053
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 1: They let Nazis set up bases and launch attacks and

1054
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: ship from their territory. They never officially joined the Axis Club.

1055
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: They have the odd to distinction of being the only

1056
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,919
Speaker 1: German ally to remain a democracy during the war. All Right,

1057
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:06,879
Speaker 1: here's where it gets real wild from my point of view.

1058
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: During the Finnish far right had a lot of Jewish leaders,

1059
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: and the leftist didn't hate the Jews either. So Finland

1060
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:16,760
Speaker 1: was on World War II on the side of the Nazis,

1061
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: which means that Finnished Jews were in World War Two

1062
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: on the side of the Nazis. The Finnish soldiers had

1063
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 1: a field synagogue at the front so that they could

1064
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: keep going to synagogue. It's probably the only synagogue for

1065
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:34,280
Speaker 1: soldiers fighting alongside Hitler. History is so fucking messy. Finland

1066
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 1: didn't deport its Jews. At one point, someone in the

1067
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: Finnish government turned over eight out of five hundred refugees,

1068
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: and the rest of the Finnish government like flipped the

1069
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: fuck out and was like, this is not happening. Several

1070
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 1: Jewish officers were offered the German Iron Cross. They did

1071
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: not accept it. They were probably like what the fuck,

1072
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: Oh god, what the fuck is happening? Oh God, I

1073
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 1: can't imagine being a Finn in World War two and

1074
00:54:58,280 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 1: not just spending the entire time being like what the

1075
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: fuck is happening? Over and over. The Finnish government, especially

1076
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:08,319
Speaker 1: the Social Democrats who were allies with Germany, were like, hey,

1077
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 1: once again, we're not Hitler's allies. Were co belligerents in

1078
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: a war, right, and that is their line. Other Finns

1079
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:18,759
Speaker 1: are like, fuck yeah, being a Hitler's ally rules and

1080
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: they are like fighting for like greater Finland and shit like.

1081
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: Most Finnish historians agree that it is fair to refer

1082
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: to Finland as a German ally for most of World

1083
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: War two, but there's a lot of tension. Most Finns

1084
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: were fighting to reclaim the nineteen thirty nine border. They

1085
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 1: just wanted back what they had just lost. Other folks

1086
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 1: wanted greater Finland, which involves concrete and all the places

1087
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 1: the Finnic people traditionally lived, like Iningria and therefore Saint

1088
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: Petersburg slash Leningrad. When the Finnish soldiers passed the nineteen

1089
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: thirty nine lines in December nineteen forty one, some soldiers

1090
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 1: started basically being like, oh shit, are we the baddies?

1091
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 1: Because they're no longer reclaiming territory, they are now invaders.

1092
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 1: The Finish top general Mannaheim, is that his name Mannaheim.

1093
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: At one point he refuses to attack Leningrad. And there's

1094
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: like historical argument about whether or not the Finns participated

1095
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,919
Speaker 1: in the Siege of Leningrad, and the fact that historians

1096
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: don't know this is wild to me. That is a

1097
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: not a small thing, you know, No.

1098
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 2: It's a huge thing. The siege of Leningrad was horrendous,

1099
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 2: and so to not be able to ascertain that is

1100
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,399
Speaker 2: a weird I don't know. I gotta say what, every

1101
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,879
Speaker 2: time I run into something in my historical work, whether

1102
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 2: it's this recent or older, because World War Two is recent,

1103
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 2: When something like that isn't known, my little antenna goes

1104
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 2: up and it feels like something that's been suppressed.

1105
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:49,320
Speaker 1: That's Finland is trying really hard to come out of

1106
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: this clean. They're trying as hard as possible to be

1107
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: the best Nazi allies that have ever happened. Not the

1108
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: best is in the most allied with Nazis, but the

1109
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 1: least allied with Nazis. And so they're playing up a

1110
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff. But it also but some of

1111
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: it is true, you know, but it doesn't make it okay.

1112
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,800
Speaker 1: And that's what's so interesting to me about this. Finland

1113
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: maintained relations not with the Nazi occupation government of Norway,

1114
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: but with the government and exile of Norway, and they

1115
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: tried really hard to play both sides. They weren't starving

1116
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 1: to death because they were getting German grain, but they

1117
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: were making like secret deals with Western powers to be like, hey,

1118
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: like we promise we won't do this or that attack

1119
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: on the USSR. We promised we won't go along with

1120
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: this particular part of it, or this is all Finland

1121
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: trying to cover it tass in history books. The Eastern

1122
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: Front didn't go well for anyone. The Finns hadn't really

1123
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 1: been big on the war ever since they'd hit their

1124
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 1: old territory and reclaimed it. After the fail of the

1125
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: Battle of Stalingrad nineteen forty three, the Finns formed a

1126
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 1: new government mostly concerned with how to get the fuck

1127
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: out of the war. The Soviet Union kept offering them

1128
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 1: peace terms which involved taking even more finished territory, and

1129
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 1: basically the Finns felt like they couldn't say yes to

1130
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: it because Stalin genocides them, right or because of pride,

1131
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, they they didn't know what the fuck to do.

1132
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: Seems to be the impression. But in nineteen forty four,

1133
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: the Fins were beat. The Soviets successfully invaded them right back,

1134
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: and they're just like, the Fins are in no position

1135
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: to be picky about the terms anymore, right, so they

1136
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 1: sign a peace treaty with USSR on September nineteenth, nineteen

1137
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: forty four. They lose even more territory than the nineteen

1138
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: forty line. But once again, their fierce defense once the

1139
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: war turned might have been part of why they didn't

1140
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: lose at all. I don't really know. Then Finland joins

1141
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: the war again, this time on the Allied side, and

1142
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 1: they go to war against Hitler in the Lapland War.

1143
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: It's not like a they're not like invading Germany, right,

1144
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: but they are like militarily shooting the Nazis who aren't

1145
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: leaving Lapland the northern part of Finland. So you have

1146
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 1: the same folks who the Soviets then alongside the Nazis

1147
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 1: marched up to northern Finland and did a war against

1148
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: the Nazis. The Nazis or fucks. So they did scorched earth,

1149
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: they burned everything, they landmned everything, which of course mostly

1150
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: fucks up the indigenous Sami people who were part of

1151
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 1: all of these wars on all of the sides, including

1152
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 1: the bad sides with reindeer pulled sledges, which is cool.

1153
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 1: The Communists, they weren't fucking around with the continued The

1154
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: Communists in Finland weren't fucking around with the Continuation War.

1155
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: When I was talking earlier about how the Communists went

1156
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: and joined the Winter War to fight against the Soviet invasion.

1157
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 1: When it came time to be allies with the Nazis,

1158
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: they were like fuck no. Right the far left in

1159
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: Finland fought against the Finnish government. It fought against the

1160
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: Nazi allied government. Hundreds of leftists were arrested and many

1161
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 1: were executed for fighting against the Finnish government because you

1162
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 1: can't be allied with fucking Hitler. After the war, anti

1163
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 1: communism was turned into right wingness and Finland to turn

1164
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: to the right. By the late sixties you get anarchist

1165
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: groups like the Winnie the Pooh Society who used folklory

1166
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 1: mythology to talk about leftism, which did not single handedly

1167
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: bring leftism back to Finland. I'm just including it because

1168
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: when you run across the anarchist group called Winnie the

1169
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 1: Pooh Society, you have to include it in your script.

1170
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: If you're Margaret Kiljoy and that's Finland ed Simo. Next week,

1171
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about sniper on the opposite side, Ludmilla Pavlchenko,

1172
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 1: who fought the Nazis more consistently the entire time because

1173
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: the Nazis were the ones invading her country, and she

1174
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: fought Soviet sexism. Along the way, she became close personal

1175
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: friends with Eleanor Roosevelt, first Lady of the United States.

1176
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: And we get to talk about more messy history on

1177
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 1: go people do cool stuff. Do anything more about like

1178
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 1: FEMO or anything major imissed or No.

1179
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 2: It's just so wild, isn't it. I just it's like

1180
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 2: I think about it, and it's in a smaller context.

1181
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 2: It was a couple of years ago when I was

1182
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,919
Speaker 2: in Finland. There's this sounds off topic, but it isn't

1183
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 2: There's this really interesting strange art complex north of Helsinki,

1184
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 2: a couple hours drive, and it's this weird statuary with

1185
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 2: a bunch of statues with filled with dentures and maybe

1186
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 2: human teeth. You can look it up on Atlas Obscura.

1187
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 2: It's insane, okay, But it's right on the Finnish Russian border.

1188
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 2: And this is of course before the current conflict was

1189
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 2: going on in Ukraine that forced, not forced, finally got

1190
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 2: things to change where Finland is now part of NATO.

1191
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 2: But at any rate, it's right there on the border.

1192
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 2: And this was there was this barbed wire fence and

1193
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 2: this sign in Finnish and Russian about the gigantic minefield

1194
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 2: that existed just east of that. So you're standing in

1195
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 2: this statuary and like a few feet away as a minefield,

1196
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 2: and that was a couple of years ago. And that's

1197
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 2: an example of the of the feeling in Finland about

1198
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 2: their Russian neighbors, and of course now with what's happening

1199
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 2: with Ukraine that that feeling is not just justified legitimately

1200
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 2: concerning like there's a real real thing there that they

1201
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 2: experienced once before and they look at what's going on

1202
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 2: now and they see it like that's not that different,

1203
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 2: and who knows if it's next us next again? Right.

1204
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 2: So I think that that has shaped so much Finnish culture.

1205
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 2: And I think the Winter War and Continuation Wars shaped

1206
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 2: Finnish culture not just from a military perspective, not just

1207
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 2: from a from a from a from a war type perspective,

1208
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 2: but in how they just approach life like compulsory service.

1209
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 2: A lot of people are reservists still. They have a

1210
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 2: shooting culture now called the SRA, but the same was

1211
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 2: over the US ESRAH and they go out and they

1212
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 2: practice and train and all of that is the idea

1213
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 2: that they're trying to be potentially ready if the Russians

1214
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 2: did it again. And I think that that's part of

1215
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 2: the psyche. And I think that that trickles down into

1216
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 2: even other simple things like how you prepare for winter

1217
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 2: or your food stores or other things. Yeah, and it

1218
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 2: still affects them.

1219
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 1: Now, Okay, I have a question though about standing next

1220
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 1: to a minefield? Did you have intrusive thoughts about wanting

1221
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 1: to throw rocks into the minefield?

1222
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 2: Yes? How do you not have that as a human being?

1223
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: I can't imagine otherwise?

1224
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 2: That seems like the natural order of things?

1225
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, also the natural order of things is watching

1226
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 1: in range TV. Do you want to talk about that

1227
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: or something else?

1228
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, sure, that's the I mean, I don't

1229
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 2: know if that's part of the natural order, but it's

1230
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 2: it's not.

1231
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to, Yeah, make weird transitions. No, I like,

1232
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 1: do it in regular conversation now, And my friends are like,

1233
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 1: you're not recording. You don't have to make transitions anyway. Sorry,

1234
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,040
Speaker 1: you're a podcaster, I know.

1235
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:54,439
Speaker 2: Being a content creator, it is nice to know people

1236
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 2: want to watch your work or listen to your work,

1237
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 2: or consume your work because it has value. To them

1238
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 2: and hopefully that's the case. So yeah, you can find

1239
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 2: in range TV at range dot tv, which is my website,

1240
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 2: and from there you can find all the different distribution points.

1241
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 2: Predominantly most people watch on YouTube, and it is a

1242
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:13,720
Speaker 2: I always hesitate to call it a firearms channel, although

1243
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 2: it is. We have a lot of gun content, a

1244
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 2: lot of competition content, but it's mixed in with history

1245
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 2: and culture and hopefully that shapes the narrative in a

1246
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 2: way that it's unique and is more about community and

1247
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 2: humanity than it is about glorification of the horrors. And

1248
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 2: so it's also very much about where firearms like messy

1249
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 2: history like this, which is where firearms have been used

1250
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 2: in what I call intentionally induced amnesia events where people

1251
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 2: don't know about it because it's been left out of

1252
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 2: the general cultural narrative to do amazing things and save lives.

1253
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 2: And there are people alive today because they had a gun,

1254
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 2: and we don't talk about that as much as much

1255
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 2: as we talk about the times where people have been

1256
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 2: lost to them. But it's a difficult and messy topic. Anyways,

1257
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 2: if you like that approach to it in range dot.

1258
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 1: Tv, yeah, and I do like that approach, and I

1259
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 1: suggest people listen to it. The history of One of

1260
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 1: the things that comes up over and over again on

1261
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 1: the show is people fighting and dying literally to just

1262
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 1: find small arms. You know, so many times access to

1263
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 1: small arms is the difference between being wiped out as

1264
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: a culture and not. It's not a great system by

1265
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: which to wage a war, but it is a great

1266
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 1: system by which to offer community defense, which can make

1267
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: all of the difference of being a spiky target versus

1268
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 1: a not spiky target. But it's also complicated and it's

1269
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 1: more than I can get into right now. Obviously, choosing

1270
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 1: to be armed as a very personal choice with a

1271
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 1: lot of variables, but okay, I want to plug. I

1272
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 1: wrote a book a while ago called A Country of

1273
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 1: Ghosts is an anarchists utopia book, and it's about some

1274
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 1: people in some mountains defending themselves on skis and rifles

1275
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 1: against It's like an against an invading army, and it

1276
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 1: is absolutely People are like, wow, what is your inspiration

1277
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: on this, And I'm like, I was a finophile as

1278
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 1: a kid. I read about the Winter War was very

1279
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 1: influential on me. I had to at some point do

1280
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 1: something with people with rifles and skis and it's called

1281
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 1: a country it goes. That is not the part of

1282
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 1: it that is what most people think about. But I'll

1283
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 1: plug that. The most recent publisher of it is Akpress

1284
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 1: and has a fantasy city painted on for the cover,

1285
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 1: and I was like so excited. It's my first like

1286
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 1: fantasy city painting on a cover. And I actually am

1287
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: probably going to write a book with a dragon in

1288
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 1: it literally just so that I can have a book

1289
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 1: of mine with a painted dragon on the cover at

1290
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: some point in my life. Sophie, what do you.

1291
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 3: Got just at cool Zone Media?

1292
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 1: Buck, Yeah things. Next week we're going to talk about

1293
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 1: more of the shit and it's going to be good

1294
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 1: buck to you.

1295
01:06:55,520 --> 01:07:01,920
Speaker 3: Then, Hey, people who did Cool Stuff is a production

1296
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 3: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

1297
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 3: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1298
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1299
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 3: your podcasts.