Speaker 1: The following. He's a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This he's Talking Cowboys
Speaker 1: training live from the Dallas Cowboys World Head Hours at
Speaker 1: the Star in Frascola. Welcome into another edition of Talking
Speaker 1: Cowboys here from Oxnard, California, as we are forty two
Speaker 1: days away from kickoff of the twenty twenty one NFL season,
Speaker 1: and we have got plenty to talk about, because more
Speaker 1: things change, the more they seem to sittay the same.
Speaker 1: Rob Phillips, Mickey's Bagnola, I'm Kyle Yeoman's and gentlemen, we
Speaker 1: had quite the scare yesterday. I think it's, to say
Speaker 1: the least amongst cowboys his nation, and it revolved around
Speaker 1: a certain quarterback, certain name that rhymes was Zach. But
Speaker 1: it's not Zach. It's actually Dak Prescott. First off, just
Speaker 1: kind of give us your initial thoughts on what you
Speaker 1: were thinking during practice yesterday. Of course, Dak Prescott leaving
Speaker 1: early due to a muscle strain and his right shoulder,
Speaker 1: his throwing shoulder. Rob, what did you see and what
Speaker 1: did you hear after the fact, Well, first off, it's
Speaker 1: not training camp until Todd Archers across the tennis court
Speaker 1: with a sport coat on over shorts doing a live
Speaker 1: shot for ESPN. That's when you know something that's big
Speaker 1: is going on, and it's not training camp until there's
Speaker 1: an injury, unfortunately, or something going on with a significant player.
Speaker 1: It's nice to be out here and get started, but
Speaker 1: this is the reality of football. And it was a
Speaker 1: scary moment because you know you're out there watching practice
Speaker 1: and Dak just kind of stops throwing during the seven
Speaker 1: on seven period, didn't do anything the rest of it,
Speaker 1: and when you're talking to Jim mau or the head
Speaker 1: athletic trainer, you know there's something going on when one
Speaker 1: on ones I'm sorry that was one on ones. When
Speaker 1: seven on seven and team drills happened, he jogged off
Speaker 1: the field and eventually went and got an MRI and
Speaker 1: we got some some updates on that in terms of
Speaker 1: arm soreness. Turns out the MRI mix says it's a
Speaker 1: muscle strain in his shoulder on his throwing arm, and
Speaker 1: they're just gonna be careful with him for the next
Speaker 1: few days. And Mike McCarthy was on the fan this
Speaker 1: morning saying, basically it sounded like he's going to do
Speaker 1: some form of practice. Micky, Okay, are you sweating? No
Speaker 1: this trail mix. Something went down my throat and it's
Speaker 1: trailing me right now, got your water there, right, you're good?
Speaker 1: Um yeah, short of the Heimlich I think okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: he got on the air. That's it's a no no
Speaker 1: for that reason. For that reason, it'd be a good visual.
Speaker 1: Somebody saves me. Right, Um, so I totally lost my
Speaker 1: train of thought. But he I'll pick it up for you.
Speaker 1: Can you talk you basically? You basically? Uh. That was
Speaker 1: my lead to mix shots. It's like, you know, always
Speaker 1: something training camp doesn't start until something happens, and something
Speaker 1: always happens. Right, we had a we had a clean week,
Speaker 1: and then it's like, okay, the pads came on and
Speaker 1: training camp starts and you have an injury and yeah,
Speaker 1: um I was good with the sore arm. I like that.
Speaker 1: I didn't like when it was up in the shoulder
Speaker 1: because there's too many strains, because there's too many things
Speaker 1: in the shoulder that can go wrong that are serious. Right,
Speaker 1: the first thing you think of is an ac joint
Speaker 1: or something like that that it gets sprained. Uh, my
Speaker 1: first question to somebody was did he get hit And
Speaker 1: it's like, no, it's it's it's a muscle thing. It's like,
Speaker 1: oh okay, that's that's good. Um. Now, Dak called it tightness.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like it, and he said he developed it
Speaker 1: the day before it started bothering him and he kind
Speaker 1: of pushed through it and he thought he could push
Speaker 1: through it yesterday and it tightened up on him, is
Speaker 1: what he said. So if if, if you know, Dak
Speaker 1: decided to shut himself down, then it's got to be something, right.
Speaker 1: He doesn't just go in for a hang nail. Uh. Well,
Speaker 1: to your point Mike McCarthy on the fan this morning,
Speaker 1: because they asked him like he's probably gonna lie right
Speaker 1: and say he's okay, he said he does have the
Speaker 1: communication with Britt and the training staff is really good.
Speaker 1: He's not gonna he's not gonna fudge it. He knows
Speaker 1: how important he is to group. And what Mike said
Speaker 1: was soundn't like he's gonna maybe do something at practice
Speaker 1: now now, not throw, but be involved in the run
Speaker 1: game stuff and be out there take snaps right so
Speaker 1: and he can run. There's nothing wrong with that, yither.
Speaker 1: So that was the other thing. That was the other
Speaker 1: part yesterday where you're like, Okay, it doesn't look like
Speaker 1: anything's wrong with his ankle, but that's the first thing
Speaker 1: that goes through your mind, and when he jogs off
Speaker 1: the field, you're like, he's good. And we kind of
Speaker 1: got word from that. But yeah, that was that was
Speaker 1: probably a really not probably a really stressful moment for
Speaker 1: Cowboys fans because on top of that, you know, he
Speaker 1: was supposed to do those car wash interviews mid afternoon
Speaker 1: out here with local media and it got postponed and
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, what's going on. He did get
Speaker 1: an MRI and the news was pretty good all things considered.
Speaker 1: That's pretty good news. Yeah, it is pretty good news.
Speaker 1: And it's it's still considered a minor strain. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: called it, might call a soft strain. So the first thought,
Speaker 1: at least, like you said, whenever he did jog off
Speaker 1: into the locker room, you were thinking, Okay, the ankle's fine,
Speaker 1: check that box off. The second one, is he I mean,
Speaker 1: of course he hadn't been hit yet, kind of like
Speaker 1: how Mick was talking about. He hadn't been in drills
Speaker 1: where he had even remotely been around taking a hit
Speaker 1: or had to avoid pressure or do anything really stressful.
Speaker 1: So I think the initial thought was probably something with
Speaker 1: the arm or the upper body at the same time.
Speaker 1: And so my initial thought went to pitching baseball, because
Speaker 1: you hear about it all the time, a starting pitcher
Speaker 1: getting warm, getting ready the bullpen, and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you feel some arm soreness, and then you
Speaker 1: have to shut it down and go get checked up
Speaker 1: on and you may get scratched from a start here
Speaker 1: and there, and then that's exactly so. And I had
Speaker 1: never heard about that sort of deal with a quarterback before,
Speaker 1: and even David Ellman said the same thing later on
Speaker 1: in the day after we had had a conversation. But
Speaker 1: that's what scared me about it was that it wasn't
Speaker 1: a non it wasn't a contact thing. It was more of,
Speaker 1: like you said, a muscle issue. Is this something that
Speaker 1: could linger into the season. I know we're not doctors
Speaker 1: here by any means, but just based off of what
Speaker 1: you've seen in the past, I just think he needs
Speaker 1: to be shut down. And he's talking a day or two.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking a week or two, and there's no reason
Speaker 1: for him to do anything until after the Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame game, right, and maybe not until after the Arizona
Speaker 1: preseason game. Yeah, my first thought was we won't see
Speaker 1: him throw out here until after Oxnard. We got maybe
Speaker 1: maybe we got five weeks before the first week of
Speaker 1: preparation for the season openers a long time. So that's
Speaker 1: a long time and as long as it's just sore,
Speaker 1: irritated or whatever, that should be enough time for it
Speaker 1: to recover. And yeah, but when he was supposed to
Speaker 1: speak at two o'clock yesterday, right with the TV stations,
Speaker 1: and then it was two thirty, and then at three o'clock,
Speaker 1: it was six thirty or six fifteen, and I'm going, uh,
Speaker 1: something's up right, and that's he wouldn't for an MRI,
Speaker 1: and the MRI showed soreness, So okay, fine, it's a muscle.
Speaker 1: That's a good thing. Somebody had tweeted out a picture
Speaker 1: of Maler when they were still on the field, going
Speaker 1: underneath the shoulder pad and doing this, and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't like the looks of that, but we'll see
Speaker 1: how it turns out. But yeah, you to see your
Speaker 1: starting quarterback because this sore arms have happened in training
Speaker 1: camp before guys get dead arm. Yeah, Romo used to
Speaker 1: get it right, right, Yeah, because you're not used to
Speaker 1: throwing day in and day out as much as they
Speaker 1: throw here. And another reason why it's a good thing
Speaker 1: that they don't have two days and no days off.
Speaker 1: I guess so from a quarterback standpoint, you gotta watch
Speaker 1: your pitch count. And even though there's four quarterbacks out there,
Speaker 1: for a while, there was only three right without Cooper rushed,
Speaker 1: so everybody's getting more throws. And you know, and he
Speaker 1: hadn't been throwing like that consistently. You know, you can
Speaker 1: do it in the offseason and train, right, But I
Speaker 1: don't know how many times he throws the ball out here,
Speaker 1: It's true, but you don't do that in a workout
Speaker 1: or a rehab session or you know, when OTAs you
Speaker 1: do it for you know, it's three days and then
Speaker 1: you got a week off till the next three days,
Speaker 1: and here it's every day almost so. And I mean again,
Speaker 1: we don't know how much he throws on his own,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't doing team stuff in the spring, so
Speaker 1: this is more of a workload than he's had. Not
Speaker 1: that he's being overworked, but he is working back into
Speaker 1: full practice here in training camp. I saw some speculation
Speaker 1: on Twitter last night that, oh gosh, maybe you know
Speaker 1: he'll be back by the Rams practice, And I'm thinking
Speaker 1: that's not a game. Who cares about that? Yea, the
Speaker 1: Rams are coming in, who cares? But we'll see. I
Speaker 1: think one thing also that Mike said on the fan
Speaker 1: this morning that's encouraging are is there were certain throws
Speaker 1: that bother him and there's certain throws that don't bother
Speaker 1: him at all. And so to me that that is
Speaker 1: an indication that this is probably something more mild than
Speaker 1: a grade whatever strain that he's dealing with in his muscle.
Speaker 1: And he had talked about how it actually bothered him
Speaker 1: prior to yesterday. He talked about Tuesday was when it
Speaker 1: first started flaring up, And of course we saw what
Speaker 1: happened Tuesday. The defense really got after him and was
Speaker 1: in the process of kind of starting a little bit
Speaker 1: of that defensive momentum. They continued that yesterday against the
Speaker 1: backup quarterbacks. So that leads me into this topic of
Speaker 1: conversation is are we comfortable right now at backup quarterback? Um?
Speaker 1: Are we sure of what's going on with guys like
Speaker 1: Garrett Gilbert Cooper Rush been the Nucci back there because
Speaker 1: yesterday did not really uh soothe my nerves by anything.
Speaker 1: I don't think we ever were comfortable. Okay, I wasn't
Speaker 1: comfortable in the off season. Um so what were you thinking?
Speaker 1: Yet we're talking worked, Well, it's practice. Talking about practice, right,
Speaker 1: it's practice, and quarterbacks are going to try to throw
Speaker 1: and make throws because there's no ramification if it gets intercepted, right,
Speaker 1: and as long as when they're judging that they make
Speaker 1: the right read. And two of the interceptions were throw ups. Yes,
Speaker 1: right was fourth and fifteen, they had to score a touchdown.
Speaker 1: He's under pressure, he just lobs it in the end zone, right, uh,
Speaker 1: and there was nobody there. And then Mcamu's was an overthrow.
Speaker 1: I don't know. He missed the receiver and it was
Speaker 1: high and it went right to them. Now, the other
Speaker 1: two were great plays. Parsons and Anthony Anthony Brown. They
Speaker 1: they were they were cutting across the middle and he
Speaker 1: saw somebody flash open and they read it and cutting
Speaker 1: in front. So those were great interceptions. The other two now,
Speaker 1: big deal, um so, but at least they were catching
Speaker 1: the ball right, which they play last year was actually
Speaker 1: catching the football. That's by my account, in two days.
Speaker 1: That's nine interceptions and in a couple drops by the way,
Speaker 1: so good for them. But I think Gilbert explained it
Speaker 1: pretty well that the defense was doing a really good
Speaker 1: job of disguising what they were in and they were
Speaker 1: showing the offense some things that they hadn't seen before
Speaker 1: where guys were gonna be So Dalton Schultz said the
Speaker 1: same thing. Yeah, it's a man look maybe pre snap
Speaker 1: and then they're in zone and that's hey, if you're
Speaker 1: a Cowboy fan, you're liking that. Yeah, because that's a
Speaker 1: defense that's showing all those different disguises like we heard
Speaker 1: about last year, but in practice maybe it's being executed
Speaker 1: better well guys that don't have as many buses maybe.
Speaker 1: And then guys guys like Terrell Basham talking about how
Speaker 1: simple it is too, how they simplified the defense, and
Speaker 1: you mentioned last year where the team kind of wanted
Speaker 1: to see those hybrid looks and wanted to see the
Speaker 1: man and zone and the disguises and the things of
Speaker 1: the sort. And they saw that, but it was more complex,
Speaker 1: whereas the defense is simplified things down but make you
Speaker 1: started off by saying you weren't satisfied at the backup
Speaker 1: quarterback spot, and he talked about the good defense. And
Speaker 1: I feel like that's the balance that we have to
Speaker 1: decide on what we're seeing right now. Is it bad
Speaker 1: offense or good defense? And is it worrisome about what
Speaker 1: the offense has shown you the last two days. No,
Speaker 1: I'm not worried whatsoever. And as a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: while the defense is bragging, there were two plays the
Speaker 1: day before that they busted coverages on the right end right.
Speaker 1: I tried, he didn't. He didn't get my humor. It
Speaker 1: was like, was that a great move or did they
Speaker 1: bust the coverage? And he goes the linebackers. I think
Speaker 1: he was wide open. No one covered him. And then
Speaker 1: and then it was a player or two before it
Speaker 1: was Blake Jarwin wide open down the middle, and I
Speaker 1: think it was Parsons and Neil were standing there looking
Speaker 1: at each other like, okay, which one of us was
Speaker 1: supposed to do that? Somebody was right. So yeah, they
Speaker 1: had a couple. Even though they're bragging about their no
Speaker 1: fly zone, they had a couple. That was the first
Speaker 1: time I saw busted coverages. But again, it's These guys
Speaker 1: don't get to work that much in the season. You know,
Speaker 1: they improve in the off season, so it's good. Now
Speaker 1: the blessing in disguise is the fact that these guys
Speaker 1: are gonna get more reps. Right, Gilberer get more reps?
Speaker 1: Do Nucci will get more reps? I think finally Rush
Speaker 1: got out there and he took them finally, so they'll
Speaker 1: get more reps. And that's gonna be either good or bad.
Speaker 1: Because it's good that you get to practice. It's bad
Speaker 1: if you could expose why you're considered a backup quarterback.
Speaker 1: I always thought that fine, let them, let them fight
Speaker 1: it out, but keep an eye on the waiver wire
Speaker 1: the end of August because something's like the other day
Speaker 1: Blake Bortles came now and didn't get me all excited
Speaker 1: on the mailbag this morning. But if somebody, but if
Speaker 1: somebody shows up, that's got some experience, right, These guys
Speaker 1: have two combined NFL starts. Backup quarterbacks need experience. They
Speaker 1: don't need to be young guys I'm bringing along. So
Speaker 1: if somebody gets really what if what if Andy Dalton
Speaker 1: gets released by the Bears? Oh right, from a call?
Speaker 1: Bring them back, right, somebody. They can't keep both fulls
Speaker 1: in Dalton as a backup quarterback and have three guys
Speaker 1: if the other guy wins the starting job, the rookie,
Speaker 1: So there's gonna be somebody released. You got to keep
Speaker 1: their eye on that. And those guys are competing against
Speaker 1: them sel and they're competing against the waiver wire. This
Speaker 1: could almost be a blessing in disguise. Not you know,
Speaker 1: you don't want to see dak miss anytime. But if
Speaker 1: it is indeed minor and that's what we're being told,
Speaker 1: then he's okay. And again six weeks till the opener,
Speaker 1: and in the meantime, they're going to get more clarity
Speaker 1: on their backup quarterback position because Mickey's right, like they're
Speaker 1: not satisfied with it. They've said there, I mean, the
Speaker 1: so many words that they're not because they've said, we're
Speaker 1: keeping our eyes open. They've brought in quarterbacks to work
Speaker 1: out in the springtime, two of them, right, Yeah, didn't
Speaker 1: sign him. And that part of that is money, I mean,
Speaker 1: I would think because you know, they paid Andy Dalton
Speaker 1: three to five million bucks last year to be a
Speaker 1: backup quarterback. I don't know if they have that kind
Speaker 1: of pocket change this year. So the hope would be
Speaker 1: Garrett Gilbert balls out and shows gives them a comfort
Speaker 1: level as the backup quarterback. Now he's gonna have more reps,
Speaker 1: more opportunities to do that. If not, or even if
Speaker 1: he does play pretty well, to Mickey's point, there's always
Speaker 1: options in early September, whether it's cuts or we've seen
Speaker 1: them make trades in the past as well to bring
Speaker 1: in backup quarterbacks quarterback depth. So I would not rule
Speaker 1: that out at all in the next few weeks. But
Speaker 1: in the meantime, all three other guys are gonna get
Speaker 1: a lot of reps and and one way or another,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get a feel for where it's at. And
Speaker 1: you're right, the last couple of days have not been
Speaker 1: good overall. It's been the defense is dominated for the
Speaker 1: most part the last two days. And you know Dak
Speaker 1: was part of that too, Yeah two days ago, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I completely agree. I think Ben de Nucci, who had
Speaker 1: a pretty good start to camp, really just did not
Speaker 1: play well the last two days. Maybe he gets an
Speaker 1: opportunity running with the twos to finally fix a couple
Speaker 1: of his issues. I think over the next couple of
Speaker 1: days and then what you just talked about it Garret
Speaker 1: Gilbert going back to the ones, and he even spoke
Speaker 1: about it yesterday saying, I'm comfortable with those guys. I
Speaker 1: got thrown into the mix a little bit, yes, or
Speaker 1: excuse me last year, and when I was thrown into
Speaker 1: the fire I didn't even know everybody's name at the
Speaker 1: same time. And now he's got a chance to turn
Speaker 1: around and maybe make an impact with the ones with
Speaker 1: legit meant practice rep with these quarterbacks and the backup quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: Tell me what you think is more talented the backup
Speaker 1: defensive line or the backup offensive line because the protection
Speaker 1: hadn't been good when those guys get in there. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's it's been problematic, especially when the
Speaker 1: pads came on. I would agree. I thought the deep,
Speaker 1: backup defensive line has more talent than having all those
Speaker 1: backups on the offensive line, and so that has that'll
Speaker 1: affect a quarterback. Now these guys will have a chance
Speaker 1: maybe to get some reps with the first offensive line,
Speaker 1: which by the way, looks pretty good. Yes they do.
Speaker 1: And then the other thing that happens in this in
Speaker 1: this stuff is those guys aren't worrying about the run,
Speaker 1: right because you're not tackling anybody. All they're doing is
Speaker 1: pinning their ears back and going after the quarterback. So
Speaker 1: you get it gets a little bit skewed on on
Speaker 1: just how well they're playing, because remember, that's fair if
Speaker 1: they don't stop the run, that they ain't rushing the quarterback.
Speaker 1: And they were bad, bad, you know what. I got
Speaker 1: had another word in there, and I caught myself. That's
Speaker 1: a good one. That is a good point that I mean,
Speaker 1: the pads come on, but you know, you're not really
Speaker 1: getting a full gauge of your run defense until I
Speaker 1: guess preseason's saying until you play somebody. Yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 1: then you're starting you gotta put somebody on the ground.
Speaker 1: Right right now, you're not putting anybody on the ground.
Speaker 1: You're just touching up. So Okay, they ran and then
Speaker 1: you know, and when they're looking at oh that was
Speaker 1: four yard gain, right right? Okay, Well, I kind of
Speaker 1: want to continue this conversation a little bit later on,
Speaker 1: so let's go ahead and take our first break when
Speaker 1: we come back kind of along those same lines, is
Speaker 1: there an unforeseen position battle happening on that offensive line
Speaker 1: when we talk. When we returned with more talking cowboys
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Speaker 1: See more, do more, or as always here on Talking
Speaker 1: Cowboys Mickey's Bagnola, Rob Phillips, Kyle Yeoman's here from Oxnard, California.
Speaker 1: Still kind of reeling after the news yesterday, and also
Speaker 1: a sigh of relief, I believe, of the news yesterday
Speaker 1: surrounding Dak Prescott and his shoulder injury. It is a
Speaker 1: muscle strain in his right shoulder, and at least at
Speaker 1: the moment, things look like it as minor and it
Speaker 1: should be only a couple of days or weeks if
Speaker 1: we're Mickey's Bagnolan, Rob Phillipson here, and I agree with
Speaker 1: you guys too, by the way, sit him out for
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, lead it heel, and then get
Speaker 1: back to action. But yeah, outside of that, we got
Speaker 1: a chance to see the offensive line blocking for a
Speaker 1: different quarterback. And like you said, the starting offensive line
Speaker 1: has looked really good. And I wrote this down yesterday
Speaker 1: in my practice notes, but Connor McGovern taking snaps for
Speaker 1: Zach Martin at right guard pretty darn good from what
Speaker 1: I've seen yesterday, and of course what he showed at
Speaker 1: the end of the year. Mike McCarthy even talked about
Speaker 1: it yesterday, speaking on how he was the most improved
Speaker 1: offensive lineman of the season last year. All the way
Speaker 1: down the street. I'm not gonna say he's going to
Speaker 1: display Zach Martin R. I'm not saying Zach Martin, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the other side. It was about Connor Williams,
Speaker 1: the guy that was the best offensive lineman last year.
Speaker 1: So you don't agree if Connor Williams and Connor McGovern
Speaker 1: got in a bit of a guard battle. I think
Speaker 1: that Connor Williams played well last year, considering he had
Speaker 1: a guy on his left side that had started one
Speaker 1: previous game in his career and was an undrafted free
Speaker 1: agent night and yeah, yeah, and they've already moved him
Speaker 1: from tackle, and then at center you got Joe Looney
Speaker 1: and then be Idish playing for the first time in
Speaker 1: his NFL career. So I think everybody wants to replace
Speaker 1: Connor Williams for some reason. I'm not sure why. I
Speaker 1: think he's solid. Is he a Pro Bowl or probably not?
Speaker 1: But I think he's solid, and uh, I think it's
Speaker 1: good that you have another guard that can come in.
Speaker 1: I thought the hope was that he could do both. Well.
Speaker 1: He's not put his hand nuts, so they must not
Speaker 1: think he can play center in the NFL. That he
Speaker 1: is a guard, and you know that's good. But I
Speaker 1: don't know that there's open competition yet because I haven't
Speaker 1: seen him take snaps with the first team at left
Speaker 1: guard in place of Williams unless he's playing center or
Speaker 1: or they're keeping him at guard, so he can really
Speaker 1: focus on that competition and left guard, you know, and
Speaker 1: give him a real chance to win the job. Now
Speaker 1: I'm you mean it left guard. I'm I'm playing Devil's advocate.
Speaker 1: I agree with Mickey. I mean, I think I take
Speaker 1: crap for this on the normal rotation with Heck and Isaiah,
Speaker 1: because I said Connor Williams played well last year was
Speaker 1: his best season as a cowboy off coming off in
Speaker 1: ACL And now does he get does he get overpowered
Speaker 1: at times? Yes? Yes? Has he improved in that area
Speaker 1: over three years, yes he has. He's got a different
Speaker 1: body type than he did when he came in the league.
Speaker 1: He's in the final year of his deal. I don't
Speaker 1: know if he'll be back, and Connor McGovern could be
Speaker 1: prepared to slide into that spot in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: But I if I had to guess, I would say
Speaker 1: he's the left guard, Connor Williams once again, and possibly
Speaker 1: the backup center. I mean, they're they're taking a look
Speaker 1: at that, you know, in training camp and see how
Speaker 1: it goes. But I don't see change in the starting
Speaker 1: lineup there, barring injury. I think I'm with you, guys. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: I have been impressed of what Connor McGovern has shown,
Speaker 1: and maybe this does kind of allude to the fact
Speaker 1: that Connor Williams has been chosen as maybe the work
Speaker 1: in backup center because they feel good about maybe replacing
Speaker 1: his spot in the starting lineup should something happen to
Speaker 1: Tyler Biatta scoot over Connor Williams, Connor McGovern goes up
Speaker 1: to the left guard spot, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you're feeling really good about your backup off of line choices.
Speaker 1: To your point about Connor mcgovernor, I talked to him
Speaker 1: at minicamp and, like Mickey said, he's only really working
Speaker 1: at guard, but he just feels like he's in a
Speaker 1: better place. If you remember, he missed his entire rookie
Speaker 1: year with the pectoral deal and still was kind of
Speaker 1: working through that into the spring summer, going into twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, twenty twenty training camp. So you know, he
Speaker 1: really got off to a slow start in terms of
Speaker 1: reps and what they saw from him last year because
Speaker 1: all the linemen had to play last year. He did
Speaker 1: show something. I thought he did play well at guard
Speaker 1: when he was in there, and I think he has
Speaker 1: shown enough that they get an injury at tackle. Zack
Speaker 1: Martin's my backup tackle because you feel I'll guarantee you
Speaker 1: McGovern will play a better guard than any of the
Speaker 1: other guys will play it at tackle. You think that's
Speaker 1: why Ultimately they were like, uh, yeah, Zach okay, because
Speaker 1: Mike has said he doesn't want to change two spots
Speaker 1: if he doesn't have to. But but look to last
Speaker 1: year or what happened best five. Yeah, they got forced
Speaker 1: to do it because it was so bad. Yeah. Right now,
Speaker 1: Having said that, Terren Steele's body looks different. He looks
Speaker 1: like an NFL offensive lineman. Now he's put some weight
Speaker 1: on the lower half, which was one thing that I
Speaker 1: had knocked against him early last year. He came in
Speaker 1: as an undrafted free agent and he was about as
Speaker 1: top heavy as a water burger cup that you get
Speaker 1: in the drive through and then you turn around and
Speaker 1: he's even down a little bit. So I think between Steele,
Speaker 1: Nasecki and Josh Ball, those are the three guys I
Speaker 1: think the competition for that backup spot. Can they keep
Speaker 1: them all? Yeah? Maybe so as guys to groom and
Speaker 1: then with McGovern, you know you got a backup guard.
Speaker 1: The key thing will be if Connor Williams can show
Speaker 1: he can be the backup center, because then you don't
Speaker 1: have to keep another swing guy right. You can just
Speaker 1: keep one more guy um and you you save spots
Speaker 1: by doing that. But they cannot do if they don't
Speaker 1: have confidence in the secy Ball or Steel to be
Speaker 1: that backup swing tackle. Then the drop of a dime,
Speaker 1: if something happens one of those tackles, Zach's got to
Speaker 1: go out. They can't wait like they did last year.
Speaker 1: They wasted too much time for me. Are there any
Speaker 1: reserves about Zack Martin and his health right now? No,
Speaker 1: I think they're just being smart. I mean that they
Speaker 1: are rotating those right guard snaps in team because we
Speaker 1: saw Connor McGovern, we saw Brandon Knight. Even I think
Speaker 1: with the first team a little bit left left guard,
Speaker 1: some left guard. Yeah, okay, I thought I saw any
Speaker 1: might have been. I just know that when they went
Speaker 1: second team, he'd been the second team left guard. You know,
Speaker 1: Zach spoke to it a couple of days ago. Just
Speaker 1: I mean, as I get older, and he's only thirty,
Speaker 1: but I mean, you know, he's been in the league.
Speaker 1: That's a line that's about a long see, that's a
Speaker 1: long career. So that's funny. He's only thirty, right, but
Speaker 1: Tyrant Smith, Oh, he's getting old. He's thirty. Yep, thirty, Yes,
Speaker 1: that's crazy. He turns thirty one, I think in December
Speaker 1: if I remember correct. So he was twenty when he
Speaker 1: came in. Yeah, he was a he was a pup
Speaker 1: that's won when he came in. Yeah, he's thirty, So
Speaker 1: thirty one in December. It's eleventh season. Crazy, and it's
Speaker 1: Zach's eighth. Yeah, And I mean Zach's had some stuff
Speaker 1: kind of pop up the last couple of years. Not
Speaker 1: anything super serious, but he had a back in training
Speaker 1: camp a couple of years ago. He had the calf
Speaker 1: last year. So yeah, just you know, be smart with
Speaker 1: one of the best three players on the team. You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I just kind of wanted to bring that conversation
Speaker 1: up because, of course, with the revolving door that we
Speaker 1: had last year at offensive line depth is an issue,
Speaker 1: and Mickey, you even spoke about it in the last segment.
Speaker 1: Outside of Connor McGovern, the quote unquote backup offensive line
Speaker 1: has not been impressive so far. No, they they have struggled.
Speaker 1: But you know, look what you're what you're out there with,
Speaker 1: Uh Josh Ball rookie right, Uh Niseki Now he's old
Speaker 1: thirty six right, Yeah, I'll say that's old. He may
Speaker 1: not like that. Uh, You've got Forni act that's moving
Speaker 1: from guard to center. Um, and then either McGovern and
Speaker 1: then who's ever at the Brandon Knight at the left
Speaker 1: guard spot, who's probably fighting to and steals in there.
Speaker 1: So those guys are fighting. Just make the roster let
Speaker 1: alone a backup job. So yeah, and it happens all
Speaker 1: the time. You know, that's there's not enough offensive linemen
Speaker 1: in this league to have too deep, right and and
Speaker 1: and if you look at when they tried to play
Speaker 1: these alternative leagues, the biggest problem they had is there's
Speaker 1: not enough offensive linemen. So you the quarterback however, good,
Speaker 1: bad or otherwise they are, they ain't got no shot
Speaker 1: because they have no protection when it's time to throw
Speaker 1: the football. Um. So, I don't know where all the
Speaker 1: offensive linemen have gone, but they're I don't know they
Speaker 1: play defense now or what? Rob Why do we give
Speaker 1: a pass on some of these rookie offensive linemen but
Speaker 1: we also have exceptionally high expectations for some of these
Speaker 1: rookie defensive lineman. Is it because of that reason that
Speaker 1: it's that much to it that much of an adjustment
Speaker 1: going from college to pro when stopping pass rushers as
Speaker 1: opposed to being the pass rushers. That's a great question.
Speaker 1: I don't know why we do that. I guess I
Speaker 1: guess the thing, yeah, everybody does. It's it's college football.
Speaker 1: It's it's harder to find NFL ready offensive linemen these days.
Speaker 1: And if that's why it's so hard to find him
Speaker 1: off the waiver wire, you know, like Brian always used
Speaker 1: to say, and he was right. You know, if they
Speaker 1: if you've got a good backup tackle, you know, even
Speaker 1: if you have good depth, you're keeping him, keeping him
Speaker 1: because they're just they're not easy to find. And I
Speaker 1: do think it's the college game the way the college
Speaker 1: game has played a fewer pro style offenses, all the
Speaker 1: spread stuff, and it's just not the same. All they're
Speaker 1: doing is pass blocking or trying to yeah, and they
Speaker 1: don't run the football hardly anymore. And then there's this,
Speaker 1: and Rob's probably heard me tell this story. So back
Speaker 1: in the nineties when Joe Brotsky was the offensive line
Speaker 1: he was the running backs coach, but he had been
Speaker 1: a big time high school coach in Miami, legendary, and
Speaker 1: so one day we were talking and was something how
Speaker 1: it came up about offensive lineman. He goes, all right, Mick,
Speaker 1: let me explain it to you. I'm in high school.
Speaker 1: First day of practice, right, We get all these guys
Speaker 1: to come out, and you don't know what they can
Speaker 1: do or whatever. And you look around and it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: that guy right there looks like the best athlete. You're
Speaker 1: my quarterback, the next best athlete, you're my running back,
Speaker 1: the next best guy by defensive end. After that, can
Speaker 1: you catch the ball? You're the wide receiver. You can't
Speaker 1: catch the ball, you're the cornerback, right, And he says,
Speaker 1: you go through this whole thing, And then you look
Speaker 1: around and you go okay, I'll restue you guys, your
Speaker 1: offensive lineman because you can't do anything right, and they're
Speaker 1: the least athletic usually because if you're athletic and big,
Speaker 1: you're on defensive end right, or you're chasing the quarterback
Speaker 1: or you're a linebacker. But the rest of you, guys,
Speaker 1: and if you go to high school games, I mean
Speaker 1: there's some big old yea, they are right and jersey
Speaker 1: barely fits. But that medium, that's how you make that's
Speaker 1: how you make an offensive line, and then you hope
Speaker 1: maybe they grow into something right. Good point, it's a
Speaker 1: good point. It's it's the trickle down effect of how
Speaker 1: athletes are chosen from a younger age, I guess is
Speaker 1: one way we could look at it at this point.
Speaker 1: But we've got a little bit of defensive talk to
Speaker 1: talk about as well. We're gonna hit how did the
Speaker 1: defense look yesterday? And is it that much of an
Speaker 1: exciting prospect is to think, hey, turnovers are going to
Speaker 1: be here in twenty twenty one as opposed to twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one. We returned with more talking Cowboys here on
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Speaker 1: About ten minutes left here in this episode of Talking Cowboys,
Speaker 1: Rob Phillips, Mickey's Bag, Nola, Kyle Yeoman's here from Oxnard, California.
Speaker 1: We're entering practice day Numeros six here from the West Coast,
Speaker 1: and well, practices four and five were highlighted by the
Speaker 1: defense and it was a response from the defense after
Speaker 1: really the offense had their way in practices two and three.
Speaker 1: You counted nine interceptions the last two days, but I
Speaker 1: think there was five on Tuesday and fourty yesterday. There
Speaker 1: were more on Tuesday, I believe, so wow, I have
Speaker 1: to go back and look, but it felt like there
Speaker 1: was an interception every two rows yesterday. Mickey's rightful, but
Speaker 1: there were a couple of spots where it's like, hey, Dnucci,
Speaker 1: just throw it up there. Yeah, but yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: the dbs are flying around and Kelvin Joseph's had like
Speaker 1: three practices and starting stir in. Yeah, no, he's I
Speaker 1: always kind of felt like once we got out there
Speaker 1: and he got settled in, like his talent would take
Speaker 1: over a little bit, because he's a very talented player.
Speaker 1: And he did miss ten days because of COVID quarantine
Speaker 1: in the spring. But he's flying around he said, no
Speaker 1: fly zone, airplane mode. I mean it's you know, that's
Speaker 1: a lot of swagger for just getting started in your
Speaker 1: first camp. But you know what, maybe that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe that's that's what this defense needs a
Speaker 1: little bit. And I think it does speak to while
Speaker 1: Mickey was right, you know, there's a couple busts there
Speaker 1: that we've seen it on the defense, the communication seems
Speaker 1: to be really good, and I think when it's really good,
Speaker 1: guys are in the right spots, you know, and to
Speaker 1: go make plays on the ball. And you know, some
Speaker 1: of the stuff we saw on on Tuesday was red
Speaker 1: zone work, and it does get tighter and tougher down
Speaker 1: there for the offense to cash in. But you know,
Speaker 1: you cannot be anything but impressed with the way the
Speaker 1: defense has flown around here. Calvin Joseph have shown and
Speaker 1: and I thought that was good to be one of
Speaker 1: his attributes. Speed. He has ketchup speed. Dbs are gonna
Speaker 1: get beat and I've seen two plays where he's been
Speaker 1: beaten balls in the air and he catches up and
Speaker 1: either deflects it or I think it's happened twice. It
Speaker 1: happened yesterday for sure, on a crossing pattern. He was
Speaker 1: beat and the balls in the air and he came
Speaker 1: in and knocked it out. There was a deep ball
Speaker 1: the other day where the guy was behind him and
Speaker 1: the receiver was behind him, and he got back and
Speaker 1: got his hand up in the air and knocked it down.
Speaker 1: So I'll be interesting to see if that continues. But
Speaker 1: Anthony Brown had a really nice interception, so he's not
Speaker 1: sitting there going okay, I can't hold this starting job, right,
Speaker 1: go ahead, rookie gets yours. Oh and he also can
Speaker 1: play in the slot, which mentioning the slot Jordan Lewis
Speaker 1: better not miss another day because Maurice Kennedy is gonna
Speaker 1: wally pip him here pretty soon. He's had two really
Speaker 1: good days without Jordan Lewis on the field, a pick
Speaker 1: in each practice, right yep, and impressive ones too. I
Speaker 1: believe he had a PBu as well on Tuesday along
Speaker 1: with his interception, a really nice one where he actually
Speaker 1: laid out and got a handle the football. But this
Speaker 1: is kind of the buzzword that's been thrown around all
Speaker 1: of our podcast Mick SHOT's Talking Cowboys. The break doesn't matter. Competition, yep,
Speaker 1: And we have been waiting for that, especially in the secondary,
Speaker 1: for the last couple of years, and now you finally
Speaker 1: have it with Kelvin Joseph who right now, if you
Speaker 1: ask pretty much anybody, he's not the starter. He's a
Speaker 1: second string corner. But why was he the first name
Speaker 1: that brought up? Because he's bringing that swagger, he's bringing
Speaker 1: that competition at confidence that this defense hasn't shown in years. Me, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know about years. Let's not let last year
Speaker 1: cloud everything else. That was twenty eighteen maybe the last time. Well,
Speaker 1: they were the number eleven defense in twenty nineteen. Now
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about points. I'm talking about yards, sure,
Speaker 1: because they did give up way too many points. So
Speaker 1: all this talk, we've talking about cornerbacks. Right, can they
Speaker 1: stop the run? Because they couldn't last year. It was
Speaker 1: gosh awful biggest problem they had by far on the
Speaker 1: whole team. And so I I gotta see has this
Speaker 1: been solved? Has it been solved? Um? Right now? We don't.
Speaker 1: We think it could be, but we haven't seen it.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can't tell what's going on in practice.
Speaker 1: If they're stopping the run, pads come on the first day,
Speaker 1: you're not tackling anybody. They need to start tackling thirty
Speaker 1: four and thirty seven. Sorry, Rico Dowd says up, stays up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not nice. Man. You could go hit forty five too,
Speaker 1: because I don't think it'll bother him. Goalie. He you
Speaker 1: think he can make this team? Yeah? Yeah, Can we
Speaker 1: get a fullback out there? Is that something McCary. I
Speaker 1: guess McCarthy's valued it in great Q. That guy just
Speaker 1: roomed the Cowboys that one year, right, Yeah, they might
Speaker 1: throw him the ball right after he caught four or
Speaker 1: five of them. Yeah, then they didn't cover him. So
Speaker 1: but again, can they stop the run? Twenty five hundred
Speaker 1: yards rushing last year, second most enfranchise history in history.
Speaker 1: We're not going to know. We're not going to know
Speaker 1: for sure until the games started. That's why training camp
Speaker 1: you gotta put a little bit of a disclaimer on
Speaker 1: everything you see. But but no, I mean there there
Speaker 1: is confidence and activity these last couple of days, especially
Speaker 1: in the secondary, where you're like, this is this is good,
Speaker 1: this is really this is really promising looking you know,
Speaker 1: and and I can't help but think a lot of
Speaker 1: it has to do with dan Quinn being so hands
Speaker 1: on in the communication. I think that's that's sorely needed
Speaker 1: from that position that he's filled, and the competition will
Speaker 1: just get raised at safety now right with the addition
Speaker 1: of Malik Hooker. Um, I'm not sure how soon he'll
Speaker 1: get in the stuff, but let's see what happens. I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know. I asked him specifically that yesterday
Speaker 1: and he wouldn't give me a date. He said, they're
Speaker 1: just gonna easy, but he's got to ramp up. He
Speaker 1: hasn't he hasn't done anything. He's coming off in Achilles. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it ain't easy, no, I can tell you. And you're
Speaker 1: just trying to get I just wanted to sit up
Speaker 1: and walk right. And this guy's gonna go out there
Speaker 1: and try to play football. And I'm guessing he hadn't
Speaker 1: really done you know, you can condition, but I bet
Speaker 1: we don't see him in pads until next week. That
Speaker 1: makes sense, but there's only what well, maybe the weekend
Speaker 1: one more practice one day to this weekend Saturday Sunday,
Speaker 1: so maybe some time in there. But yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think they're gonna rush him out there. There's no need
Speaker 1: to do it, but I think the competition rises, you know,
Speaker 1: kzy curse. Let's see what you got because everybody back
Speaker 1: there is on a one year deal. Donovan Lewis, Donovan
Speaker 1: did it again? Did it again? You did it yesterday?
Speaker 1: I told Donovan, I told him, I just promoted him
Speaker 1: to start in safety. Donovan Lewis that the ticket, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Donovan Wilson and um, I think he's got a spot.
Speaker 1: But let's see, because I think it's open competition back there.
Speaker 1: We've been so worried about the safety position. Now we
Speaker 1: got all these guys, but guess what one year deals,
Speaker 1: So no one's promised from a financial standpoint. You gotta
Speaker 1: prove yourself. And even Kean O'Neill, right, we're just assuming
Speaker 1: he's he's good. Well, he's got competition. Have you seen
Speaker 1: anything at linebacker yet? Um? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: I've liked Actually, I liked him in coverage yesterday. He
Speaker 1: followed Zeke all the way down the field and made
Speaker 1: a pass breakup. I feel like he's kind of been
Speaker 1: in the right spot, you know, And that's the biggest
Speaker 1: to me. That's maybe the biggest part of the linebacker position.
Speaker 1: Going back last year, you rather him there than Parsons. No,
Speaker 1: there's a difference between splash plays in training camp and
Speaker 1: also just kind of watching to see if guys are
Speaker 1: doing what they're supposed to do, and so sometimes that
Speaker 1: kind of those lines get blurred in training camp. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying Parsons hadn't had a good camp. I mean
Speaker 1: he shows up every day with something. Yeah, um, but
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think Keanu Neal's got a spot
Speaker 1: on this team. I don't know how many snaps he's
Speaker 1: gonna play, and I think maybe as we go on
Speaker 1: throughout the season, Michael Parkson's plays more and more and more.
Speaker 1: But I think there's a spot for him. And I'm
Speaker 1: with Mick on safety, I think I think Donovan Wilson's
Speaker 1: as a starter, but that other spot could be up
Speaker 1: for grabs, especially if Hooker gets going here. I think
Speaker 1: all three of those guys are fighting for that free
Speaker 1: safety spot because I think right now the safest bet
Speaker 1: is to say you're starting safety or strong safety rather
Speaker 1: is Donovan Wilson, we think, but they've kind of rotated
Speaker 1: that to free also, but well, he did that last
Speaker 1: year too, he bounced back and forth. So I think
Speaker 1: that's the safest bet right now is to say that
Speaker 1: six is gonna be out there for the most part.
Speaker 1: But then you've got three other guys clamoring for the
Speaker 1: rest of the snaps. And I think we already talked
Speaker 1: about it on another show. But the fact that Malie
Speaker 1: Cooker was signed and he was out on the field,
Speaker 1: it looked like they had raised their competition level. It
Speaker 1: looked like they had raised it up a little bit.
Speaker 1: Casey had the really nice interception that was returned for
Speaker 1: a touchdown. That's true. That was the day that Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's like, oh, hold up here, right, not
Speaker 1: so fast, which is back to the competition aspect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have guys here that you you think can come
Speaker 1: in and win a starting job. And if you think
Speaker 1: you can win a starting job, you're gonna have that
Speaker 1: extra cozy another guy is coming off with torn both
Speaker 1: guys and the year before it was it was Neil, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: so Neil missed some time last year as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah, look, this is this is gonna be a
Speaker 1: that's gonna be a prove it position. And then when
Speaker 1: you know we haven't talked about the linebackers, but there's
Speaker 1: some great no competition going on there, you know what.
Speaker 1: Talk about that on Saturday when we come back on
Speaker 1: Talking Cowboys. That's the that's the homework assignment for all three.
Speaker 1: Keep an eye on the line, keep it on the
Speaker 1: linebackers because whenever we get to Saturday, I want to
Speaker 1: try and rank all four of them. Want to We
Speaker 1: did that on the sideline yesterday. Actually really yeah wow,
Speaker 1: So I'll save it for Saturday. Okay, okay, we need
Speaker 1: we need I'll join that conversation. We need some running,
Speaker 1: like up the middle type stuff, right like they used
Speaker 1: to do in the old days. They did it alive yesterday,
Speaker 1: ground on the ground. You know. Jimmy when when they
Speaker 1: would do that inside run. Yeah, when we were in Austin,
Speaker 1: Jimmy would let us go on the field and stand
Speaker 1: behind to watch it, to ramp up the count, to
Speaker 1: ramp up the competition, right, because those guys are right there,
Speaker 1: they're gonna see everything that happens. And boy was there
Speaker 1: some head knocking going on. It was live, but we
Speaker 1: got to go on the field to watch it. When
Speaker 1: they first invited us on, we looked at each other like,
Speaker 1: does he really want us to go stand there like
Speaker 1: ten fifteen yards behind the line of scrimmage? And we did.
Speaker 1: It was great, It was great. Things have changed. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're probably gotta be sixty yards away from him for
Speaker 1: on the field, probably, yeah, most likely. But yeah, we're
Speaker 1: gonna watch the linebackers. We're gonna come back with more
Speaker 1: of that on Saturday. That's the next time we're back
Speaker 1: and live. It'll get all all everything kicked off eleven
Speaker 1: am Central Time back in the Lone Star State, and
Speaker 1: then we'll be live out here at nine am Pacific
Speaker 1: Coast time. But for Rob Phillips, Mickey's Bagnola, Kyle Yeoman's
Speaker 1: Chris Beam in the back saying so long here from Oxnard, California.
Speaker 1: More Cowboys training camp on the way. Be sure to
Speaker 1: stay up today on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. We'll see
Speaker 1: you Saturday. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.