WEBVTT - Paul Rosolie, Protecting the Amazon Rainforest 0:00:15.076 --> 0:00:22.196 Pushkin. Hey, Solvable listeners, I want to let you know 0:00:22.276 --> 0:00:24.196 that this is going to be the last episode of 0:00:24.196 --> 0:00:28.516 Solvable for the foreseeable future. Thank you for joining us 0:00:28.516 --> 0:00:31.196 each week as we've mined the brightest brains around for 0:00:31.276 --> 0:00:35.756 solutions to problems like climate change, imperialism in the arts, 0:00:35.756 --> 0:00:40.316 size discrimination, exclusivity and gaming, the nation's mental health crisis, 0:00:40.356 --> 0:00:43.996 and of course the pandemic. Now. Although the world has 0:00:44.156 --> 0:00:47.236 many more problems, this is the last will aim to 0:00:47.276 --> 0:00:51.436 solve for now. And with that, let's start the show. 0:00:54.316 --> 0:00:59.156 This is Solvable. I'm Ronald doing Junior to just listen. 0:00:59.156 --> 0:01:01.876 You're flying over a field abroccoli and there is nothing else. 0:01:02.556 --> 0:01:06.836 That massive field is the Amazon rainforest, stretching from Brazil 0:01:07.036 --> 0:01:14.476 to Bolivia, Peru, Eador, Colombia, Venezuela, Guyana, French, Guyana and Surinam, 0:01:15.116 --> 0:01:17.876 sometimes called the lungs of the Earth, or its ability 0:01:17.916 --> 0:01:21.276 to absorb massive amounts of CO two and produce oxygen. 0:01:21.716 --> 0:01:25.436 The Amazon now suffers from man made fires and deforestation. 0:01:25.876 --> 0:01:28.276 If somebody came to your backyard and started you or 0:01:28.316 --> 0:01:30.556 your block and started cutting down all the trees and 0:01:30.636 --> 0:01:32.916 bulldozing the sidewalk, I mean you'd have the cops out 0:01:32.956 --> 0:01:35.276 there in a second. We'd never allowed that. The jungle 0:01:35.356 --> 0:01:38.716 is changing as people increasingly view the Amazon as a 0:01:38.796 --> 0:01:42.236 resource for things like wood and gold, and so bit 0:01:42.316 --> 0:01:44.316 by bit, day by day, they've just been shipping away 0:01:44.316 --> 0:01:47.556 at it. People are cutting timber from rainforest, people are 0:01:47.596 --> 0:01:51.836 gold mining from rainforest. Paul Rosalie is a conservationist and author. 0:01:52.436 --> 0:01:54.956 In August twenty nineteen, he posted a video showing the 0:01:54.996 --> 0:01:58.676 results of the wildfires destroying the Amazon rainforest. At that time, 0:01:59.116 --> 0:02:02.556 it was viewed over one point four million times and 0:02:02.636 --> 0:02:06.036 received a lot of media attention. Just by people posting 0:02:06.076 --> 0:02:08.476 and resharing his video, Paul and his team got the 0:02:08.516 --> 0:02:11.476 word out about what was being lost in those fires. 0:02:11.796 --> 0:02:14.116 Give me a reason to be working in the Amazon 0:02:14.156 --> 0:02:16.636 at a purpose I was helping with something, which is 0:02:16.636 --> 0:02:19.756 something I really wanted, was to not just be you know, 0:02:20.276 --> 0:02:21.836 being like, yeah, it's a lot of fun and to 0:02:21.836 --> 0:02:23.716 take pictures. It was like, no, I'm actually helping these 0:02:23.756 --> 0:02:28.276 people to protect their land. Through his eco tourism company 0:02:28.436 --> 0:02:31.236 and his team of forest rangers, Rosalie is trying to 0:02:31.236 --> 0:02:34.636 get people to see why the rainforest exists, why it's 0:02:34.636 --> 0:02:37.436 important to our daily lives, and what can be done 0:02:37.436 --> 0:02:41.036 to preserve the thousands of animal and plant species that 0:02:41.156 --> 0:02:44.796 make the rainforest their home. A single tree can be 0:02:44.876 --> 0:02:48.516 covered in reptiles, and birds and frogs will be living 0:02:48.556 --> 0:02:51.596 on the mosses, lichens, vines, all this stuff. It's just 0:02:51.636 --> 0:02:54.996 like a skyscraper of life. The Amazon's existence is also 0:02:55.036 --> 0:02:58.116 crucial to our own existence, helping to stabilize the climate. 0:02:58.836 --> 0:03:02.156 Rosalie remains optimistic that his efforts to save the rainforest 0:03:02.396 --> 0:03:05.676 will not be in vain. Saving the Amazon rainforest is 0:03:05.676 --> 0:03:16.276 a solvable problem. Do you remember the earliest time that 0:03:16.356 --> 0:03:21.236 you fell in love with wildlife or with nature? And 0:03:21.436 --> 0:03:23.916 you tell me about how that came to be for you. 0:03:24.276 --> 0:03:26.796 So I was born in Brooklyn, and my parents wanted 0:03:26.836 --> 0:03:28.716 to get away from the city, so so they moved 0:03:28.716 --> 0:03:31.316 to like northern New Jersey, and so we had I 0:03:31.316 --> 0:03:34.156 had access to a lot of forests. People don't realize, 0:03:34.156 --> 0:03:36.396 like doing New York and New Jersey, there's actually a 0:03:36.436 --> 0:03:38.156 lot of forests there. And so my parents used to 0:03:38.196 --> 0:03:42.036 taking me on hikes. I loved like stormy summer days 0:03:42.076 --> 0:03:45.196 when the foliage is really thick. I wanted to pretend 0:03:45.196 --> 0:03:47.796 it was the jungle, and I used to love going 0:03:47.796 --> 0:03:51.516 out and looking for snakes and turtles. And then as 0:03:51.516 --> 0:03:53.796 I got older, took me to the Bronx Zoo. It's 0:03:53.836 --> 0:03:56.356 like it's like legendary. You see these animals that you 0:03:56.396 --> 0:03:58.596 know from all over the world that are so incredible. 0:03:59.076 --> 0:04:00.716 It just stuck in my head that that's something that 0:04:00.796 --> 0:04:03.716 you can do, that a person can do. And then 0:04:03.756 --> 0:04:05.316 when I was a teenager, it was like going out 0:04:05.316 --> 0:04:09.676 into the woods with like a knife and one match 0:04:09.796 --> 0:04:11.916 and my dog and I'd have to like survive for 0:04:11.956 --> 0:04:14.716 the whole weekend. So yeah, one match, add your dog 0:04:15.396 --> 0:04:18.676 doesn't seem like enough to survive for the weekend. So 0:04:19.276 --> 0:04:22.396 you dropped out of high school with your parents encouragement, 0:04:22.436 --> 0:04:25.076 Tell me tell me that story. Yeah it always people 0:04:25.116 --> 0:04:26.796 always scratch their head and I tell them that. But 0:04:26.876 --> 0:04:30.556 I was the worst student you have ever heard of. Well, no, 0:04:30.636 --> 0:04:32.276 second worst. There's always that kid that takes it to 0:04:32.356 --> 0:04:37.196 another level. Always there's always that guy. But no, I was. 0:04:37.476 --> 0:04:41.396 I think I got detention or suspended how many times 0:04:41.436 --> 0:04:43.236 through middle school and then in high school it was 0:04:43.236 --> 0:04:45.156 like I was old enough to be like getting in 0:04:45.196 --> 0:04:48.396 fights with people and just failing all my classes and 0:04:48.516 --> 0:04:50.996 miserable and depressed, I mean, you know, it sounds like, oh, 0:04:50.996 --> 0:04:53.196 it was school, but it's like when you're a kid, 0:04:53.436 --> 0:04:55.636 you're in a room and they tell you you're gonna 0:04:55.636 --> 0:04:58.476 be in this room for a long time. It's January 0:04:58.836 --> 0:05:00.476 and you got months ahead of you, and next year 0:05:00.556 --> 0:05:02.676 is gonna be the same thing. And when you grow up, 0:05:02.676 --> 0:05:04.236 you're gonna sit in an office and it's gonna be 0:05:04.236 --> 0:05:07.516 the same thing again. And it's just assignments and it's boring. 0:05:07.556 --> 0:05:08.876 And so I'd be like, all right, well, at least 0:05:08.916 --> 0:05:11.276 I'm going to read, and then like no, Paul gave 0:05:11.316 --> 0:05:12.476 me the book. And then I'd be like, you're not 0:05:12.476 --> 0:05:14.516 taking the book. Give us the book now, or else 0:05:14.556 --> 0:05:16.196 you're onto the principal office. We're going to call this 0:05:16.276 --> 0:05:18.196 a kid. It was My mom came to me and 0:05:18.236 --> 0:05:20.516 she was like, look, if you want drop out, and 0:05:20.596 --> 0:05:22.796 I was like what. She's like, yeah, you're not going 0:05:22.836 --> 0:05:24.316 to be a couch kid. She's like, you're not gonna 0:05:24.316 --> 0:05:26.236 go work at you know, the gas station. She's like, 0:05:26.236 --> 0:05:27.916 you got to go to college. She's like, but you 0:05:27.956 --> 0:05:31.276 can get your geed right now, which is two years 0:05:31.276 --> 0:05:32.756 of high school. And I tell this to kids like 0:05:32.836 --> 0:05:34.476 it's it's a get out of Jail free card. If 0:05:34.516 --> 0:05:37.276 you're ready to go do something, if you want to 0:05:37.356 --> 0:05:39.436 learn a trade, if you want to go exploring, whatever 0:05:39.516 --> 0:05:41.916 does you want to do. You don't need to sit 0:05:42.076 --> 0:05:43.916 for the second two years of high school. It's not 0:05:43.956 --> 0:05:45.676 made for everybody. And if you're one of those people, 0:05:45.676 --> 0:05:48.916 it's not made for you. Take this test. And I 0:05:48.956 --> 0:05:51.316 went straight to community college and then I applied to 0:05:51.356 --> 0:05:53.156 state school and I just you know, I did my 0:05:53.236 --> 0:05:57.676 undergrad and that gave me the time to start focusing 0:05:57.716 --> 0:06:00.476 on what I really wanted. And at that very very 0:06:00.516 --> 0:06:02.716 young age, at like seventeen, I was already going, Okay, 0:06:02.756 --> 0:06:06.316 well what about what am I doing here? You ended 0:06:06.396 --> 0:06:08.716 up in Peru somehow, so take me on that trip. 0:06:09.636 --> 0:06:12.356 It was actually, I think in school a teacher had 0:06:12.356 --> 0:06:14.396 made a joke about like, oh, you know this wood 0:06:14.396 --> 0:06:16.476 that they're cutting down the Amazon rainforest for and I 0:06:16.556 --> 0:06:18.756 sort of said, wait a second, this is that's a 0:06:18.796 --> 0:06:24.116 real place that theoretically I could go to. And so 0:06:24.156 --> 0:06:25.676 I like got in my head and I started doing 0:06:25.716 --> 0:06:27.636 searches on the internet, and like, you know, the first 0:06:27.636 --> 0:06:29.236 thing you look up, like go to the rainforest, you 0:06:29.236 --> 0:06:30.556 found like tours and stuff, and I was like, I 0:06:30.596 --> 0:06:32.796 don't want to do that, you know, I want to go. 0:06:33.276 --> 0:06:34.916 I want to go and do something. I want to 0:06:34.916 --> 0:06:38.196 go be part of something, something authentic. And I found 0:06:39.036 --> 0:06:43.396 this local indigenous guy who was working with mccause, you know, 0:06:43.396 --> 0:06:47.476 the color for the big colorful parrots. And I sent 0:06:47.556 --> 0:06:49.756 out an email and I asked it that like one 0:06:49.796 --> 0:06:53.316 hundred and thirty other emails too. But I waited like 0:06:53.356 --> 0:06:54.876 a month and a half, heard nothing, and then one 0:06:54.916 --> 0:06:56.476 day I got an email back and it was like, hey, 0:06:56.716 --> 0:06:58.516 you know, if you're if you're good in the outdoors 0:06:58.516 --> 0:07:01.396 and you feel this and that, you can come. It was. 0:07:01.836 --> 0:07:03.716 It was very surreal and I had to fight that one. 0:07:03.716 --> 0:07:05.076 I had to fight with my parents with because they 0:07:05.076 --> 0:07:06.436 were like, you are too young to be getting on 0:07:06.516 --> 0:07:08.676 a plane by yourself, going to the middle of the 0:07:08.756 --> 0:07:11.556 jungle down a road completely out of contact for days 0:07:11.596 --> 0:07:13.876 and days and days and weeks and with anacondas and 0:07:13.916 --> 0:07:18.196 bushmasters and jaguars and poachers and all this stuff. Yeah. Yeah, 0:07:18.236 --> 0:07:19.876 So that one was tough. That was a tough one 0:07:19.916 --> 0:07:21.956 to sell. And I basically had to play the you know, 0:07:21.996 --> 0:07:24.916 if I'm turning eighteen, I can do it without your things. 0:07:24.916 --> 0:07:26.556 So I'd rather do it with you, so I had to. 0:07:26.996 --> 0:07:30.036 We got into it on that one. But yeah, getting 0:07:30.036 --> 0:07:41.156 there the first time was that was an adventure. Describe 0:07:41.156 --> 0:07:43.796 how big the Amazon is and I don't know if 0:07:43.796 --> 0:07:46.716 you have any comparative terms. I can't really imagine the 0:07:46.716 --> 0:07:50.596 scope in the size the Amazon basin itself is larger 0:07:50.636 --> 0:07:56.836 than the continental US, and we Yeah, it's huge. And 0:07:56.956 --> 0:07:59.556 when you're in this forest, when you fly over it, 0:07:59.796 --> 0:08:02.196 I was lucky enough to be in like a small 0:08:02.236 --> 0:08:04.676 cess and of flying over we were monitoring for shorterier 0:08:04.756 --> 0:08:08.756 dogs and you we reach parts where you can't see 0:08:09.276 --> 0:08:11.876 anything but forest. It just looks like you're flying over 0:08:11.916 --> 0:08:15.396 a field a broccoli and there's nothing else. Yeah, as 0:08:15.396 --> 0:08:17.036 far as the eye can see. And it's just it's 0:08:17.076 --> 0:08:19.756 such a massive forest. And it's not just jungle. It's 0:08:19.756 --> 0:08:22.356 a lot of people don't realize there's in the Amazon. 0:08:22.356 --> 0:08:25.316 There's grasslands, and there's wetlands, there's the pentanale, there's there's 0:08:25.316 --> 0:08:27.676 all this different other types of ecosystems there's been but 0:08:27.756 --> 0:08:31.916 bamboo forests. It floods and it recedes is it's so 0:08:31.916 --> 0:08:36.036 so much more complex than we think. That. My big 0:08:36.076 --> 0:08:38.236 thing there that that really blew my mind. Was that 0:08:38.276 --> 0:08:39.916 you show up and you see a bunch of green 0:08:39.956 --> 0:08:42.476 and these giant trees, and you're like, okay, cool. But 0:08:42.516 --> 0:08:45.476 then it takes you a few years of learning to 0:08:45.676 --> 0:08:49.036 learn how much you don't know. Because once you learn all, 0:08:49.236 --> 0:08:51.716 you know, let's say, out of out of fifteen hundred 0:08:51.756 --> 0:08:55.596 tree species, I learned, you know, thirty trees, you know, 0:08:55.636 --> 0:08:58.236 and and fifty birds and a few snakes and the Okay, 0:08:58.236 --> 0:08:59.716 so I learned those things, But I say, well, wait, 0:09:00.116 --> 0:09:04.676 the size of this jungle is so beyond our comparison 0:09:05.676 --> 0:09:07.516 that it's other than comparing it to the to the 0:09:07.596 --> 0:09:10.236 United States. I don't I can't even I can't even begin. 0:09:10.356 --> 0:09:13.156 It's just massive. Do you remember the first time you 0:09:13.196 --> 0:09:16.196 stepped in there? I imagine that's different from the New 0:09:16.316 --> 0:09:20.476 York forests. So what what was it like? You ever 0:09:20.516 --> 0:09:23.116 see the beginning of Jurassic Park? Would you see the 0:09:23.116 --> 0:09:26.396 broad of sources? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, he like grabs her 0:09:26.396 --> 0:09:28.916 face and she she stands up and like everyone gets 0:09:28.996 --> 0:09:30.596 chills when you see that. And it was like the 0:09:30.756 --> 0:09:33.756 first time I stepped off the boat and saw a giant, 0:09:33.956 --> 0:09:37.276 you know, thousand year old capoc tree and trails of 0:09:37.356 --> 0:09:39.476 leaf cutter ends and you hear two cans and there's 0:09:39.556 --> 0:09:42.316 spider monkeys. It was literally just like, this is where 0:09:42.516 --> 0:09:45.036 I am supposed to be. It felt like it felt 0:09:45.036 --> 0:09:47.436 like it felt like waking up from the matrix for 0:09:47.476 --> 0:09:49.356 the first time. I was like, oh, this is what 0:09:49.396 --> 0:09:52.956 it's supposed to be. Like, this is great. The one 0:09:53.036 --> 0:09:57.036 thing that my teacher didn't know was he was scared 0:09:57.036 --> 0:10:00.116 of snakes, and I had. I had grown up like 0:10:00.156 --> 0:10:02.916 rescuing snakes. Like one time on a trail in like 0:10:02.996 --> 0:10:04.596 New York, in New Jersey, this some old guy was 0:10:04.596 --> 0:10:07.316 trying to kill a copper head and I just, you know, 0:10:07.356 --> 0:10:09.036 stepped in and like picked it up and moved it. 0:10:09.116 --> 0:10:11.636 Which by that point I'd caught hundreds of non venomous 0:10:11.636 --> 0:10:13.316 snakes and so I knew how to do it. No, 0:10:13.716 --> 0:10:17.876 thank you, Paul. This is yeah with your guy, no 0:10:18.156 --> 0:10:21.516 trying to stay away from them. I mean, I support 0:10:21.556 --> 0:10:23.636 you on that. Everybody should stay away from them. But 0:10:24.036 --> 0:10:26.076 the funny thing is a snake will never, in any 0:10:26.076 --> 0:10:29.756 circumstances um attack a person. You know, anybody that's messing 0:10:29.756 --> 0:10:31.556 with a snake. You know, you hear about people like 0:10:31.596 --> 0:10:33.516 killing rattlesnakes and stuff. It's like, well you could do 0:10:33.596 --> 0:10:38.116 that or you could just keep walking like you just 0:10:38.636 --> 0:10:42.636 you just not you know what a radical copdown. It's 0:10:42.716 --> 0:10:45.876 it's amazing and there's a lot of that in conservation um. 0:10:45.956 --> 0:10:47.476 But yeah, going to going to the jungle for the 0:10:47.516 --> 0:10:51.196 first time absolutely was a major life changing moment. That 0:10:51.316 --> 0:10:53.556 moment of seeing the jungle for the first time, that's it. 0:10:53.676 --> 0:11:05.156 That was like really the start of my actual life. 0:11:10.796 --> 0:11:12.396 As you got there and you know, you see this, 0:11:12.556 --> 0:11:16.236 you have this Jurassic Park moment. Were there? Did you 0:11:16.276 --> 0:11:20.036 have another Jurassic Park moment when you know the juggle 0:11:20.116 --> 0:11:22.476 kind of turned, don't you? Or you saw less less 0:11:22.476 --> 0:11:25.676 glamorous parts of the jungle that weren't so weren't so great, 0:11:25.676 --> 0:11:28.556 the grittier parts you know about visiting and living in 0:11:28.556 --> 0:11:34.596 the Amazon. Well, the thing is I love everything about 0:11:34.596 --> 0:11:37.076 the jungle. I mean the you know, people say, what 0:11:37.116 --> 0:11:39.756 about the piranhas, what about this? What about that? It's like, dude, 0:11:40.436 --> 0:11:47.236 piranhas are delicious, Fried piranhas are delicious. I mean anaconda's 0:11:47.236 --> 0:11:49.876 black Cayman. I've had close en concounters with jaguars. The 0:11:49.916 --> 0:11:53.796 only thing that that after I had started learning and 0:11:53.836 --> 0:11:56.196 gone on adventures and and sort of got in my 0:11:56.276 --> 0:11:58.276 jungle feet, which is something you literally had to do 0:11:58.396 --> 0:12:01.476 because the native guys they're like, look, you're too loud 0:12:01.516 --> 0:12:04.156 with boots on, take them off. So they want you 0:12:04.196 --> 0:12:06.596 to walk barefoot with the scorpions and the snakes and 0:12:06.636 --> 0:12:09.356 the spikes and the jung yads. No, thank you, this 0:12:09.436 --> 0:12:12.116 is all Ronald repellent. You're describing a place that Ronald 0:12:12.156 --> 0:12:15.876 Will Will we'll see from Afar on a tour. Wait, 0:12:15.916 --> 0:12:17.876 but your team just told me they got your plane tickets. 0:12:17.876 --> 0:12:21.476 You're coming with me next week. Yeah. My My goal 0:12:21.516 --> 0:12:23.916 to preserve the Amazon is by staying out of it. 0:12:24.036 --> 0:12:29.396 So that's you're not a lot of people that really 0:12:29.396 --> 0:12:31.436 help us protect the Amazon. I've said the same thing. 0:12:31.436 --> 0:12:34.236 They're like, look in in theory, I want to protect 0:12:34.236 --> 0:12:36.796 the rainforest. I don't want to set foot there. I'm 0:12:36.836 --> 0:12:39.916 glad that it exists, and hey, you know, I respect 0:12:39.996 --> 0:12:41.956 I really respect that. At least for me, there's a 0:12:42.036 --> 0:12:44.756 huge benefit of that. I enjoy it. You wanted to 0:12:44.796 --> 0:12:48.476 go yourself. How do you get other people excited about 0:12:48.516 --> 0:12:51.756 about the Amazon, about preserving it? How do you get 0:12:51.796 --> 0:12:55.716 somebody that you know that maybe apathetic or indifferent about 0:12:55.756 --> 0:12:58.596 the Amazon. How do you get them excited about your 0:12:58.596 --> 0:13:01.276 work and what it is that you're doing. The rainforests 0:13:01.276 --> 0:13:05.796 are huge global forces in the stabilization of our climate 0:13:05.836 --> 0:13:08.516 that keep tons of carbon in the ground. That's where 0:13:08.556 --> 0:13:11.916 all of our bio diversity is, huge amounts of land 0:13:11.996 --> 0:13:14.396 for indigenous people. I mean, there's there's just the crown 0:13:14.476 --> 0:13:18.716 jewel of planet Earth, and some people still don't care. Yeah, 0:13:18.756 --> 0:13:21.636 you know, But the thing is, if that's where you 0:13:21.636 --> 0:13:24.156 get to the level of like, yeah, but a bad environment, 0:13:24.156 --> 0:13:26.356 if you can't breathe the air and drink the water, 0:13:26.836 --> 0:13:29.156 it ain't good for business either. I I was on 0:13:29.196 --> 0:13:31.476 a Fox News show at some point and the guy, 0:13:31.716 --> 0:13:33.876 he was actually nice off camera. He goes, luck, he goes, 0:13:33.916 --> 0:13:35.876 I'm about to come after you. And I went, Okay, 0:13:35.956 --> 0:13:38.316 he goes, but this is a financial show. And and 0:13:38.316 --> 0:13:40.236 then they started and he goes and I got a 0:13:40.236 --> 0:13:42.116 tree hugger on here. Now, why would we want to 0:13:42.116 --> 0:13:44.876 protect the Amazon? And I was like, you got millions 0:13:44.876 --> 0:13:47.596 of starving people because there's no rainforest, and everybody up 0:13:47.636 --> 0:13:49.836 here starts choking and the weather goes all out of whack. 0:13:49.916 --> 0:13:52.556 I was like, that is not good for your third 0:13:52.636 --> 0:13:55.636 quarter or whatever it is you're worried about. And that's 0:13:55.636 --> 0:14:05.996 the truth. You know, we need a function ecosystem. You 0:14:06.116 --> 0:14:10.876 started the eco tourism company, Tamandua Expeditions, telling a little 0:14:10.876 --> 0:14:13.596 bit about how that came about. The local guy I 0:14:13.636 --> 0:14:15.596 first met. His name is Juan Julio, and he just 0:14:15.636 --> 0:14:17.516 told everybody to call him JJ because he thought that 0:14:17.556 --> 0:14:19.836 was easier for the green goes. But it stucks now 0:14:19.836 --> 0:14:22.516 we all call him JJ. Originally he was doing that. 0:14:22.596 --> 0:14:24.356 He was saying, look, you know, I'll bring people onto 0:14:24.396 --> 0:14:26.476 my land because I'm trying. He was trying to protect 0:14:26.556 --> 0:14:28.876 his land, and he said, look, we'll take you out 0:14:28.916 --> 0:14:30.996 for animals, and he worked with scientists and so like, 0:14:31.156 --> 0:14:33.076 go out in the morning and take that on my cause, 0:14:33.116 --> 0:14:34.516 and then at night I'd be free to run out 0:14:34.556 --> 0:14:36.196 and look for snakes or do whatever else I wanted 0:14:36.236 --> 0:14:39.716 to do, climb trees and stuff. Originally that was the 0:14:39.756 --> 0:14:41.836 first thing I was told, was like, do that, you know, 0:14:41.956 --> 0:14:43.956 bring people that'll help. And it also gave me a 0:14:43.956 --> 0:14:46.436 reason to be working in the Amazon. Had a purpose. 0:14:46.476 --> 0:14:49.276 I was helping with something. Our deal is that we 0:14:49.316 --> 0:14:52.596 want to take people on authentic wildlife experiences. And so 0:14:52.636 --> 0:14:55.516 that's whether that's tracking tigers in India or coming to 0:14:55.596 --> 0:14:59.916 the Amazon and taking part in conservation, it's it's always 0:14:59.916 --> 0:15:02.876 like the real deal. And then also like now that 0:15:02.956 --> 0:15:05.116 we have a ranger team and that we have all 0:15:05.156 --> 0:15:07.836 these projects running, I mean, things have grown so much 0:15:07.916 --> 0:15:10.276 that now the so much for people to see when 0:15:10.316 --> 0:15:14.196 they come. How do you think eco tourism drives conservation. 0:15:16.676 --> 0:15:20.276 I've heard people criticize ecotourism for conservation, and I think 0:15:20.276 --> 0:15:22.676 in some places there's you know, like anything. I mean 0:15:22.956 --> 0:15:24.836 in some places, I mean, water is great, you know, 0:15:24.916 --> 0:15:27.636 until it's a flood. But in the Amazon, in my region, 0:15:27.716 --> 0:15:31.516 it is incredibly beneficial. If you're a guy with some forest, 0:15:31.636 --> 0:15:35.156 or if you're an indigenous community with some forests, you 0:15:35.276 --> 0:15:39.076 might not have a way of interacting with the global economy. 0:15:39.356 --> 0:15:41.996 Even if you're an indigenous community that mostly survives off 0:15:41.996 --> 0:15:45.076 of piranha and monkeys and a few crops. At some 0:15:45.116 --> 0:15:47.116 point you're going to need gasoline for your boat motor 0:15:47.116 --> 0:15:48.356 and it's like, well you got to buy that. And 0:15:48.396 --> 0:15:50.596 then when the loggers come and try to cut down 0:15:50.676 --> 0:15:52.796 your land, it's like, well, now I need a lawyer. 0:15:52.956 --> 0:15:56.036 So you do have to interact with the global economy, 0:15:56.036 --> 0:15:57.036 and so if you want to do that, you have 0:15:57.076 --> 0:15:59.276 to earn a little cash. And it's like, well, ecotourism 0:15:59.356 --> 0:16:01.596 is a great way to do that, Paul. Can you 0:16:01.636 --> 0:16:03.956 talk me through some of the ways that people are 0:16:05.316 --> 0:16:09.436 pillaging I guess we're, lack of a better word, the rainforest. Yes, 0:16:09.956 --> 0:16:12.196 if somebody came to your backyard and started, you know, 0:16:12.316 --> 0:16:14.556 or your block and started cutting down all the trees 0:16:14.556 --> 0:16:16.876 and bulldozing the sidewalk, I mean you'd have the cops 0:16:16.876 --> 0:16:18.996 out there in a second. We'd never allow that. Yeah, 0:16:19.036 --> 0:16:22.356 But when it's the middle of the Amazon, a lot 0:16:22.356 --> 0:16:24.156 of times no one's here to see it, and so 0:16:24.476 --> 0:16:26.516 bit by bit, day by day, they've just been chipping 0:16:26.516 --> 0:16:29.836 away at it. People are cutting timber from rainforests, People 0:16:29.836 --> 0:16:32.956 are gold mining from rainforests. And so in my experience, 0:16:32.996 --> 0:16:36.556 I've seen the logging industry going after giant ironwood trees. 0:16:36.596 --> 0:16:40.356 These are five hundred, six hundred, sometimes maybe thousand year 0:16:40.356 --> 0:16:45.316 old trees that are habitat for thousands of other species, 0:16:45.596 --> 0:16:47.876 and that at first even I was like, wait, thousands, 0:16:48.236 --> 0:16:51.196 but yes, it's a single tree can be covered in 0:16:51.356 --> 0:16:54.476 you know, reptiles and birds and all this other stuff. 0:16:54.476 --> 0:16:57.236 Frogs will be living on the mosses, lichens, vines, all 0:16:57.276 --> 0:16:59.716 this stuff is just like a skyscraper of life. And 0:16:59.716 --> 0:17:02.156 so when you cut that down, this is all this 0:17:02.236 --> 0:17:07.116 habitat that's gone. You started a second organization called jungle Keepers. Yes, 0:17:07.556 --> 0:17:10.236 tell me about what that does and how that fights 0:17:10.276 --> 0:17:13.436 some of the extraction that you're talking about right now. 0:17:13.476 --> 0:17:17.036 What we have is a team of eight local rangers, 0:17:17.996 --> 0:17:21.276 a fleet of boats, We have a ranger station, and 0:17:21.356 --> 0:17:27.036 we are currently protecting fifty five thousand acres along this river, 0:17:27.116 --> 0:17:28.836 so a lot of a lot of the area right 0:17:28.876 --> 0:17:30.956 around where we were starting to see that deforestation. We're 0:17:30.956 --> 0:17:35.716 sort of trying to arrest the cutting, protecting old growth 0:17:35.756 --> 0:17:39.196 forest specifically. You know, it's like we can all do something. 0:17:39.236 --> 0:17:41.916 It doesn't have to be you know, running with a 0:17:41.916 --> 0:17:44.516 sword on fire towards a bulldozer trying to save the 0:17:44.596 --> 0:17:49.076 rainforest and one heroic you know, last hand. So I 0:17:49.076 --> 0:17:51.756 imagine you guys aren't running at bulldozs with flaming swords. 0:17:52.116 --> 0:17:53.556 What are some of the things that you guys do 0:17:53.596 --> 0:17:55.636 in order to stop them, Like we're not talking about 0:17:55.676 --> 0:17:58.676 like a citizen's arrest here, but if you guys are patrolling. 0:17:58.956 --> 0:18:01.196 I imagine there's some sort of execution factor where you 0:18:01.236 --> 0:18:04.076 guys are actually stopping folks from doing the things that 0:18:04.076 --> 0:18:07.156 they're doing to extract from the rainforest. We gave them 0:18:07.156 --> 0:18:12.996 a better job. One of our most esteemed colleagues is 0:18:13.356 --> 0:18:15.476 and he drives boat for us, and he does maintenance 0:18:15.476 --> 0:18:17.556 for us. He does all this stuff. Name is Victor. 0:18:18.436 --> 0:18:22.196 He was a logger. Wow, I mean with logging. He 0:18:22.276 --> 0:18:24.716 was like, yeah, man, it's dangerous. The trees fall over 0:18:24.756 --> 0:18:26.956 and there's snakes and all the stuff, and you gotta 0:18:26.996 --> 0:18:29.036 be out there cutting and it's weeks on end away 0:18:29.036 --> 0:18:31.956 from your family. And I was like, what if you 0:18:31.996 --> 0:18:33.876 came to us because you're like an expert on the 0:18:33.956 --> 0:18:35.316 river now right, And he's like, yeah, I know, this 0:18:35.436 --> 0:18:37.156 river like came back of my hand. I was like, okay, 0:18:37.556 --> 0:18:40.316 so what if you drive travelers up and down and 0:18:41.156 --> 0:18:43.556 help us out with what we do? And he was like, well, 0:18:43.556 --> 0:18:45.116 what else? And I was like, well that's really it. 0:18:45.196 --> 0:18:47.596 And he's like, so I get good food, a clean bed, 0:18:47.716 --> 0:18:49.276 I get to hang out with people that I've never 0:18:49.316 --> 0:18:51.756 met before. And he was like, and you're gonna pay 0:18:51.796 --> 0:18:53.596 me more? And I was like yeah. I was like, 0:18:53.636 --> 0:18:56.436 what is logging pain? And he's like fifty souls to day. 0:18:56.476 --> 0:18:59.916 I was like, bro, let's make it a hundred. I mean, 0:19:00.036 --> 0:19:01.996 but really no, it's so cheap. It's so cheap. They're 0:19:02.036 --> 0:19:05.476 working for a wage that is keeping them poor and starving. 0:19:05.476 --> 0:19:07.076 And it's like when we started tim and do it, 0:19:07.116 --> 0:19:08.276 one of the things we said was, if we're going 0:19:08.316 --> 0:19:11.756 to bring people that have the resources to travel, yeah, 0:19:11.916 --> 0:19:13.956 make sure that the local team is paid in such 0:19:13.956 --> 0:19:17.076 a way that they're not just getting paid like a 0:19:17.236 --> 0:19:20.276 like a day wage, that they're professionals at what they do. 0:19:20.596 --> 0:19:23.716 And well, like, are you guys just the jobs creating 0:19:23.876 --> 0:19:26.396 organization or do you guys ever find yourself in situations 0:19:26.396 --> 0:19:29.676 where you have to do maybe like documentation and prosecuting 0:19:29.716 --> 0:19:32.916 And you know, what does patrolling look like for you? 0:19:33.596 --> 0:19:36.036 Because I imagine you guys don't have you know, a 0:19:36.076 --> 0:19:39.476 big backing like organization. You're not necessarily the FBI of 0:19:39.516 --> 0:19:42.036 the rainforest. So how do you get you know, the 0:19:42.396 --> 0:19:45.676 type of you know, the type of executive branch stopping 0:19:45.676 --> 0:19:48.396 power to actually get in there and um and and 0:19:48.396 --> 0:19:52.356 and and stop you know, stop the extractions. And you're right, 0:19:52.556 --> 0:19:55.116 I'm excited about this one thing about how we've been 0:19:55.116 --> 0:19:57.956 able to convert so many people. But you can't do 0:19:57.996 --> 0:20:00.676 that for everybody. We can't just make you know, five 0:20:00.756 --> 0:20:03.676 thousand jobs. You can't do that. So yeah, on a 0:20:03.756 --> 0:20:08.316 normal day, our rangers are patrolling and monitoring wildlife, so 0:20:08.356 --> 0:20:10.636 they're they're checking, you know, where the spider monkeys are, 0:20:10.756 --> 0:20:15.556 do you see jaguar tracks. Enforcement is something we do 0:20:15.676 --> 0:20:18.716 periodically where it's like, when we need enforcement, we collaborate 0:20:18.716 --> 0:20:21.716