WEBVTT - Is science phasing out sleep? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.520 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know? 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:16.400 From House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:20.480 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:24.279 uh and that makes this stuff you should know? What 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.240 Criterion Collection? What are you doing tonight? Buddy? What am 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.319 I doing tonight? What am I doing tonight? I know 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.320 what you're doing. What I know what we're doing? Oh yeah, tonight, 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:39.680 tonight tonight. So not like tonight in our physical new temporality, 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:42.120 I mean tonight in the future. Yes, like as of 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:44.720 like someone listening to this, it would be there tonight, 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:48.880 I would say, possibly on October twelve. I am going 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.560 to be at the Drunken UNI. That's right, the Drunken 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:59.240 Unicorn on East Paul Stallion Avenue in Atlanta, at the 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:01.760 n j q CO of course. Yes, sort of hard 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.039 to find if you don't know where what you're looking for. Well, 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.639 this is what you do. You go along Ponce until 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:11.479 you see the murder Kroger. You left or right, depending 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.959 on where you're coming from. Chipotle opposite the murder Kroger 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:19.760 on the other side of Ponce and Um, behind that 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:24.040 is m j Q. Yes. Beside that is Friends on 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.880 Ponts the bar never been I'll take you there. It's 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:32.920 gonna blow your socks off. Uh. And then below Friends 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.240 is m j Q. Yes, a very little nondescript door, 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.840 gray steel door. I think some steps down and I 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.200 don't think there's any signage whatsoever. Chuck. We may have 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:47.240 to have stand outside and be like here, everybody, why 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.440 are there. We're going to be there because our house band, 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.360 the Henry Clay People, are going to be playing there. 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.160 And this is kind of the unofficial kickoff for a 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:01.440 big trivia event night, which is tomorrow Tomorrow night, which 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.360 is October, Yes, and that is at the Five Seasons 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:08.200 Brewery West Side on Marietta Street. And it is gonna 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.400 be fun. I'm getting excited. I'm getting pretty excited. It's 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.640 gonna be pretty cool. We have actor and author and 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:19.240 former literary agent John Hodgman, and we have former Dukes 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:24.399 of Hazzard co star Joe Randazzo, and we have Squidbillies 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.720 co creator and Aquitine Hunger Force co creator Dave Willis. 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:34.160 I've been really getting into squid Billies. Yeah, it's awesomely wrong. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:37.760 I don't know if he still has it or not 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:43.040 an original um squid billies oil painting on wood, and 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:44.880 I don't I haven't talked to him in a while, 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.120 so I don't know if they've will actually painted it, 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.919 but I mean it is dead on, so I need 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.720 to ask him, do you also paint? I was watching 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:56.400 last night and Earl the Dad Squid had he always 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.720 has on different baseball caps that say different retenick things, 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.760 and one of them beware in big letters and then 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:11.240 in small little letters that said good stuff. Good stuff. 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:12.920 So there's your chance to come out and meet John 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.919 and Joe and Dave and Us and Jerry and uh 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.480 that there'll be other podcasters there, imagine the ones that 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:21.799 don't hate us will be there. So Strickland Struggle will 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.720 be there, Strickland will be there, hopefully some other people. Yeah, 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.680 so we invite everyone to come out six o'clock doors 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.680 Trivia starts at seven. The Henry Clay People shows one 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.280 of those later shows, but we encourage you to come. 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:40.160 And that's on Tuesday Trivias on Wednesday season Brewer west 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:44.160 Side experience some rock and or roll and then some 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.320 fun trivia and Chuck. Also, you can look up our 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:51.440 event on Facebook and there there's all sorts of details 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.520 and directions and stuff on absolutely yeah check it out, 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.760 um the stuff you should know trivia event page. And 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.040 this is the last you will hear of this. That's it. 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.280 And then what we may be going on a national tour. 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.080 We're almost definitely going to Austin. It's so funny, like 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.000 everyone else is so sick of hearing this, but I 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:12.080 guarantee you we will get people on that Thursday on Facebook. 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.040 That's say, well, I never heard anything about your trick, 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:17.400 and we'll just be like, go buy a tech hammer 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:21.599 at your local Ace Hardware. Take it home, Yes, put 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.960 the receipt in the garbage can and smack yourself in 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.920 the forehead with it. Don't return it after all. Right, 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.680 on with the show, On with the show, Chuck's plug 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:37.080 Fest two thousand ten for now. Yeah, So, Chuck, I've 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.520 got a story for you, alright, story time. Okay, So 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.600 remember when we were talking about roller Derby's um and 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:48.000 there was that whole Transcontinental roller Derby where it was 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.479 really just a roller rink that people went around fifty 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.080 seven thousand times for eleven hours a day until they 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:56.880 passed out. So I know that that you know that 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:59.800 there's all sorts of a thons or what they call 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.400 what they're called, what they used to be called. People 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:05.280 like to just do stuff to the extreme test their endurance. Right, 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.880 dance a thons, um, hunt nazis a thons. Just anything 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:13.200 you could think of in like the forties, fifties and thirties. Well, um, 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:17.680 staying awake was not immune to the athon fever. Um. 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:19.839 There's a guy in the nineteen fifty nine. He's thirty 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:21.960 two years old at the time. His name is Peter Tripp, 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.400 and he's a disc jockey in New York City, New 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:29.279 York City. Yeah, and um, he made a little studio 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:31.839 in the storefront and said I'm going to stay awake 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.360 for as long as I can. And he did. And 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.440 while he's doing it, oh yeah, he did for two 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:44.080 one straight hours. Wow. Yeah, Um he did. This is 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.400 kind of a mark against him as far as stay 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.520 awake a thonors or than enthusiasts. But he was given 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:55.280 him feta means by two physicians to keep him up. Physicians. 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.440 But the guy, yeah, well back in those days, Joey 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:03.039 in the corner, Yeah, his physicis. Um. I was gonna say, 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.839 back in those days, you know, like you like doctors 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.039 prescribed to anything, and I thought, oh, yeah, nothing's changed, right, Um, 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:12.480 But he stayed awake for two d one hours, assisted 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:16.159 by amphetamans, but still right. Quite an accomplishment it was, 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:17.960 and it stood for a while as I think the 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.240 longest to anyone ever stayed awake, and then people started 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.960 topping it and topping it, and then finally in nineteen four, 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:26.560 there was a teenager in San Diego, which is a 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.640 town I know you love, uh, And his name was 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:33.440 Randy Gardner and he's actually still around. That kid stayed 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:38.440 up with nothing, no assistance whatsoever, for two hundred and 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.440 sixty four hours on purpose to try and set the record. Yeah, 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:45.400 for a science fairs. It was a science experiment, and 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.320 the guy ended up setting the world record for a while. 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:53.760 I bet he hallucinated like crazy. Now, yes, here's the thing, Um, 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:56.640 I think Randy had a bit of a hard time. 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:01.159 He um had something kind of a some sort of 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:05.560 psychotic break here there. Um. Peter Tripp particularly had a 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:09.880 hard time, especially because of the amphetamines he hallucinated. UM. 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.960 Cats chasing mice in the little studio. I thought one 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.880 of the desk drawers that um he was seated at 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.240 where it was on fire. A man uh showed up 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.120 in a dark suit, and he confused him for an 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:25.280 undertaker and ran out because it was an undertaker probably um. 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.360 So yeah, there's all sorts of horrible stuff associated with 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.760 sleep deprivation. I don't like it. Bear with me, I'm 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:33.760 with you. We're about to get to the want, Want 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.000 Want moment. Okay. In two thou seven you may remember 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.520 there was a guy named um Mr Wright. I can't 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.280 remember Mr Wright's first name, can you, Tony? He was 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.120 from Cornwall, England? Oh yeah, I stayed up for eleven 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.840 days pub in Cornwall, playing pool, just hanging out. We 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:57.840 did down the webcast right. Yes, he broke the record 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:01.400 and I'm making air quotes here. He broke um Randy 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.560 um Gardner's record. What he didn't know is that a 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.720 year after Randy Gardner set the record, a guy in 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.880 Finland beat Randy Gardner's records. So two problems here, Tony 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.360 Wright didn't actually beat the world record, And the second 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:20.000 part is in Guinness stopped acknowledging the world records for 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:24.440 staying awake the longest because of health reasons. So Tony 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.880 Wright stayed awake for eleven days for absolutely nothing. Well, 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.480 he got a lot of coverage and he was a 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:35.960 national hero in Wales from what I understand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:37.720 I would have looked into that beforehand. I would have 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.160 called Guinness, the Guinness people. Yeah. One of his friends's 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:42.040 quota is saying like, we've never heard of this guy 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:49.199 in Finland. His name was Tomoy so annoy No, toy me, 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:52.360 that's got it. I've got it. His name is Toymi 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:56.240 Soyny of Finland. I've never heard of him either, and 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.120 that's a name you wouldn't forget. No, but thank you 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.360 for bearing with me through that horribly long introduction. That 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:06.240 was good. My point was this, we have this weird 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:12.560 obsession with staying awake sometimes, right, it's it's well, some 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:17.760 people do. It's it's like an endurance contest. And the 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.800 guy in New York, Peter Tripp, was assisted by amphetamines. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.720 These days, there's entirely new classes of drugs that are 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:28.800 designed to keep us awake. Right, Yes, they're called drugs. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:32.240 I don't want anywhere near me. So Chuck, you you 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.000 were big on sleeping. Right, Well, yeah, but I don't. 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:39.680 I don't sleep like Emily sleep. She can sleep. Yeah, 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:41.520 I mean I'm still you know, you get older, you 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.679 start waking up early no matter what. So even if 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:45.439 I have a late night at like two am, I'm 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:50.559 still up at seven. Yes, okay, but you still require sleep. Yes, 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.720 I for one am alarmed at the concept of synthetically 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.280 phasing sleep out, even if we don't need it, even 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.120 if we figure out how to get asked without sleep, 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.640 it just seems wrong. Well it is. You know. We'll 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:06.640 talk a bit more about that, because I have pretty 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:11.960 strong feelings about messing with you know, your natural human biology. Now, 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.480 we do already chuck through things like caffeine, speed, we 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:20.440 stay awake. I know you're huge on speed greenies. Not true, 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:25.000 absolutely not true. Um, but what are these things do 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.760 to you? There's problems, there's side effects, right, but there's 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.800 a problem. Yeah, caffeine. Um, although there are studies now 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:33.320 that say that caffeine can be good for you in 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.840 certain amounts, But caffeine can make you crash, it can 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:40.400 give you diarrhea, it can make you really irritable. If 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:45.160 you don't get your caffeine in your system, and the 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:49.319 same with amphetamines. You have a serious crash after an 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:53.280 amphetamine high. Yes, and that's not what you're looking for. No, 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.040 that's called sleep debt. Yeah, and you gotta pay it 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.800 back with amphetamines, right, So sleep for half a day 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.360 if you've been up on Greenies? Yes, Um, I think 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.000 when did Greenies? That was big and major League Baseball 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.120 they called him Greenies? Is that a bunch of baseball 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.760 players used to them being called Benny's a lot of 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.679 Caro aquinos in high school's Yeah, that's short for Ben's 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:19.120 a dream. Yeah. Yeah, So that's the bad effects of 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:25.640 caffeine and sleepitteriness, diarrhea. Plus the problem is that you're 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:29.920 being kept awake. You're awake, but you're not There's no 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.440 rest whatsoever. Yeah, your body is not getting used to 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.040 it or anything. No, and your mental faculties begin to 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:39.360 decline pretty rapidly once it starts, right, So, Chuck, what's 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:41.560 somebody who wants to stay up? It doesn't feel like 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:46.360 getting addicted to speed going to do? What can you do? Well, Josh? 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:52.320 You should try madefanel. What's medeffanel? It is a sort 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:55.040 of new drug. What is it about? Twelve? Years old 0:11:55.040 --> 0:12:00.760 in total. No, some French researchers were even cats in 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.120 the early nineties, but it's really kind of taken off 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.920 for human use beginning in ninety I think it's Uh. 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:11.040 It's in a class of drugs called eugeroics, yeah, which 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:15.960 is Greek for quote good arousal. Yeah. So the idea 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:20.319 here is that you can stay awake uh with medeffanel 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:21.920 and it goes like all drugs, it goes by like 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.559 a dozen different names, and you don't have a sleep debt. 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:30.760 That's pretty amazing. It is. Um. What's more, it's in 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:34.200 this This article was written by Julia Layton on March seventh, 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:39.520 two thousand seven. It has quite a bit um. It's 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:42.840 at the time at two thousand and seven, medaffanel was 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.240 like this promise of the future. Um. And and not 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.920 only no side effects, no addictiveness. Um. All of this 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:55.800 stuff has been proven untrue over time. And it's actually 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.400 I've read one study that found that medaffanel for use 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.600 and shift to workers late shift workers, it kept them 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:07.520 awake one point seven minutes longer than a placebo. Yeah, 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:11.240 so it may not even work. But um, let's let's 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:15.760 take the two thousand seven view of my daffa. No first, Okay, okay, 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:20.480 so it's non addictive. How could that possibly be? Well, 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:25.360 it can't, but sorry, we're back in time. This is well, 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:30.000 are we explaining how it works? Um? Specifically, it doesn't 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:36.280 do what caffeine and emphetamines do, things like blocking uh 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:39.840 neuro receptors that triggered drowsiness. UM one's called a dinna 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.800 scene and they block the receptors that bind to it. 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.880 Caffeine does, and so it will keep you awake basically 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.960 because you're not feeling tired. Right. So, like your neurotransmitters, 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.960 all of our neurotransmitters function by a release and then 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.480 they float around and have their effect and then they're 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.480 they're taken back up uptake re uptake. Yeah, well, in 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:01.679 dopamine plays a big part two in both of these, right. 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:06.160 But with with the neurotransmitter, including dopamine, you can activate 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:10.520 its release and or prevent its reuptake, so you're either 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.280 flooding the brain with it and or keeping it in 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.680 the brain longer. Right. Well, and that's what amphetamines too, specifically, 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.400 is they give the dopamine nowhere to go, so you're 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.680 just euphork sounds pretty good to me. It does sound good. 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.560 But the problem is is your brains like, oh, you 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.360 want to play that game, huh, while I'm just gonna 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:33.600 withhold dopamine unnaturally, So you're gonna be depressed for three 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:37.480 or four days. Okay. So that's how you get addicted 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:41.600 to something. Though, anytime dopamine is released artificially in the brain, 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.480 your body loves it, right, And that's here's the problem. 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:51.400 You're Dopamine is the centerpiece of the brain's reward system. 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.480 It's how we learn to eat and have sex, to 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:58.320 reproduce or have sex for whatever reason, and anything that 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.600 gives us a sense of pleasure. Dopa means involved, and 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.480 we're taught we're motivated to repeat that behavior through the 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.120 release of dopamine. So if we drink caffeine or take 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.640 speed or do cocaine or whatever, and dopamins released, we're 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.440 taught to do it again, which is the basis of addiction, which, 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.040 by the way, I think we should do a podcast 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.600 on just addiction. Yeah, it's a really interesting about that 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.040 how addiction works. Well, let's do it. Okay, let's do 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.360 it right now. Alright, you're ready, I'm not prepared. So 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.080 that's how those other uh well in two thousand seven, 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.640 more nefarious drugs would help keep you awake, and um, 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.840 medefanel didn't do that for some reason. It activated dopamine, 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.760 but just maybe not as much, right, And they believe 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.800 that medefanel actually targets a neurotransmitter G A B A. 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.720 We'll just call it gabba gabba, gabba gabba, and that 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.600 is the sleep regulator of the brain. And it seemed 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:59.760 to slow down uh gabba's release. So basically your brain 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.360 at it now that hey, it's time to go to 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.600 sleep now, right, like your circadian rhythms thrown off, right, Yeah, 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.760 So it's specifically targeted that and well not that alone, 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:10.800 because it did release a little bit of dopamine, right, 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.240 it did, But what they were saying was like it's 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.000 just such a little amount that you're not becoming addicted 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.840 like it does. But you're not becoming addicted. Don't worry 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.360 about it. Um gaba is not the only and there's 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:25.720 also um from what I found, there's four types of 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.680 gab gabba and apparently like gab before is like the 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.720 most sensitive one, and that's like the real it's the 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.840 trux of research right now is trying to figure out 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:38.000 GABBA or GABA four um. But in addition to GABA, 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:43.040 there's also histamines which make us drowsy. That's why antihistamines 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.920 can jet you up. UM. And there's also glutamate, and 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:53.680 glutamate is um basically the brain's natural speed, right um. 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:57.320 So they think that I think they figured it out 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:02.160 by now. But two thousand seven thought was that the 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:07.199 the medaffanel prevented the reuptake of glutamate, which keeps you 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.240 alert and functioning right. Yeah. And the end result of 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.359 all this is what they found was a miracle drug, 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:15.280 is what they called it, because there was no sleep 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.679 that when you came off of um this drug, you 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.960 didn't need to sleep for a half a day to 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:21.879 catch up on things. You would just go back and 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.320 fall into your regular pattern and be all rested. Yeah 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.520 it sounds great. Yeah, it does sound great. I mean 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:28.680 staying up for four day hours and then just being 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:32.560 able to get an average eight hour night sleep and 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:34.760 you're fine. I mean, why why wouldn't you want to 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.320 do that? Me personally, Well, we'll get to that later. 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.760 Well we should say too though, that it was developed 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.840 to treat U narcolepsy specifically, right, and we should probably 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.760 talk about this. There's a company called Cephalon, and Cephalon 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:50.320 took Madeffanel and marketed the heck out of it as 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.920 a pro vagil and provagil. According to a two thousand 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.640 two New York Times article, we read UM said call 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:05.679 said that um. It means provides vigilance. Right, And basically 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.720 it was adopted for off label use by everyone from 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:16.640 college students to the CEO of of UM Cephalon. Yeah, 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:21.280 what's uh, Frank Cabaldino. Frank Baldino, he took it and 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:23.560 he didn't say why he was taking it. No, but 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.879 the only thing it's approof for is NARCILEPSI is a 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.320 treatment of narcilepsy. They've tried to get it a proof 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.560 for jet lag, they tried to get it a proof 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:36.720 for shift workers UM syndrome. They tried to get it 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:42.080 a proof for general drowsiness tiredness UM and they couldn't that. 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.840 THEA was like, no, we'll let you sell this for narcilepsy, 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.520 to treat narcileptics. The problem is it's not how it 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:50.960 wor right. Well, the problem is there's only about two 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.560 thousand narcileptics in the United States. So Cephalon is like, 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.640 we need to get this out there, and they started 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:02.840 marketing it off label. It's kind of nefariously as well. Yeah, 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.720 it became a lifestyle drug, is what they classified it as. Yeah, 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.760 UM a new tropic and O O T R O 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.399 P I C, which means it's it's another name for 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:16.280 smart drug, like trans humanists love new tropics. Yes, all 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:18.679 those farmer names were so like, I don't know, they 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.320 rubbed me the wrong way. So like I said, uh, nefarious, 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.800 I'm basing this nefarious nous on UM. This really great article, Chuck. 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.040 There's two parts called UM The Rise and Fall of Provigil, 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.760 and it's by UM investigative journalist Evelyn Pringle, And I 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.399 think everybody should read this. It's really interesting. This is 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.560 hot off like yesterday it was released. I think, yeah, 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:42.199 it was hot off the press. How how odd is 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.639 that I know that you picked this, Yeah, because I 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.639 had no idea that this was written yesterday and we 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:51.440 picked it like two days before a week before. Anyway, 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:56.160 in the article, she talks about how um Cephalon had 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.879 UM physicians that they were underwriting. It didn't reveal their 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.560 relationship to the company. But we're saying, like, this is 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:05.840 a great drug and it should be used for all 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.679 these off market purposes. Stuff that if the company had 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.359 done it, they would have been prosecuted federally. There was 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:15.400 a and the Attorney General of Pennsylvania oversaw a bunch 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:20.640 of lawsuits and the company hired him as executive legal counsel. Yeah, 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:23.400 just all sorts of stuff like that. There's allegations of 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:28.480 UM paid to delay UM programs with UH, with their 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:33.520 competitors that they found that of the prescriptions written had 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:40.360 nothing to do with an ecalepsy. Yeah, it was depression, MS, sleepiness, 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:44.200 and like you said, the shift workers syndrome. They were 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.199 prescribing it for all kinds of things, basically to make 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:50.119 you feel better. They had their UM reps actually visiting psychiatrists, 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:55.760 dentists were prescribing this stuff. Yeah, UM. And and again 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:59.560 two arcileptics of them were on the drug within a 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:04.640 year of its release, right, Yeah, And it just wasn't enough. Well, 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:06.520 and then that's when they started jacking up the price, 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.159 when they found out that people really love this stuff. 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:14.159 From November to March it rose in price and it 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:17.320 was seventy seventy percent more expensive than it was four 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:19.879 years previous in two thousand four, and I think it 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:24.120 topped out at like thirteen eighteen dollars a pill. That 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:27.720 is insane. And the long and short of all this, 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:32.239 as of this week, the European Medicines Agency basically came 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:34.479 out and said, you know what, you can't use this 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:38.240 for anything but narcolepsy, because we have found out that 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:42.199 there are certain psychiatric disorders this causes, like suicidal thoughts 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:47.359 and depression in psychotic episodes and potentially life threatening skin reactions. 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:49.879 And also, first, I'm sorry, you're right it topped out 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:52.560 at thirteen sixty two a pill when it was originally 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:55.520 five dollars and fifty three cents a pill for no 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.160 reason whatsoever. It just rose and costs in the US 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:00.719 make money, UM, and you were talking king about the 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:07.560 psychiatric disorders that it exacerbated. They basically reformulated um MD 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:11.879 affodel into a kid's version for the treatment of a 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:15.439 d h D, and they found that what would be 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:19.200 the equivalent in the in the UM actual population of 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:22.800 one in about two hundred or no. Twenty in a 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:27.479 hundred cases of things like psychotic breaks, suicidal thoughts and children. 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:31.480 And this drug, it was called Sparlon, was taken out 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:35.159 of FDA testing. They just dropped it. Yeah. Well, and 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.600 not only that, but it's supposedly non addictive. Not so. 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:43.120 In two thousand nine, a psychiatrist an addiction specialists said 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:46.920 UH to USA Today that he had seen his third 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:52.439 case of probagil addiction and UM two doctors back to 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:54.719 back admitted that they were addicted to it and they 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:58.760 were also alcoholics. Right, And it's kind of interesting. I guess. 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.240 So the hammer kind of all down on um munafodil 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:06.960 and cephalon kind of simultaneously. It's currently falling. It sounds like, yeah, 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:10.560 the um FTC has a lawsuit. There's UM. I think 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:14.280 three different employees turned whistleblow around the company and file 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:18.760 lawsuits against it UM. And then yeah, that psychiatrists came 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:21.000 out in USA today and said that he was treating 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:24.919 people for addiction to it, which is huge. And then 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:28.760 Bloomberg also the same day, Bloomberg News released a report 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.840 about its addictiveness. But it's really interesting to read the 0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:35.680 stuff that's going on now compared to our two thousand 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:38.920 seven articles that I think probably should be taken down 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.159 and rewritten pretty soon because it's basically claims it's a 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:45.159 wonder drug, like, yeah, it makes it actually compared it 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:47.160 to viagran and says it's better because you don't get 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:52.560 five hour erections, right or worse depending on your viewpoint. 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:55.760 Uh So, Josh, that is just one drug that we 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.240 have picked out, but that is not the whole story 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:02.040 of science phasing out sleep. Yeah, and this, this whole 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:05.359 podcast isn't intended to to target cephalon. It was just 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:08.520 really interesting that we ran across this during our research. 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:10.880 And again, I think you should read um The Rise 0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:14.240