WEBVTT - Immigration: From Detainees to Sanctuary Cities 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.480 This is Bloomberg Law with June Grosseo from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:13.039 After more than three months in federal custody, Columbia University 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:17.080 graduate and activist Mahmoud Khalil was released from an iced 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.280 attention facility in Louisiana on Friday. He vowed to continue 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.440 the protests against Israel and the war in Gaza that 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.480 got him arrested in the Trump administration's crackdown on foreign 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.040 students who joined campus protests. 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:39.520 The US government is funding this genocide and Columbia University 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:44.600 is investing in this genocide. This is what I was protesting. 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:47.360 This is what I would continue to protest with every 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:47.760 one of you. 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.760 A federal judge had ordered Khalil to be released, saying 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:55.280 it would be highly unusual for the government to continue 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:59.320 to detain a legal US resident who's unlikely to flee 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.440 and had hasn't been accused of violence. Joining me is 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:06.039 Immigration law expert Leon Fresco, a partner at Honda Knight, 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.000 Leon Khalil is out of detention. But is he out 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:10.600 of the woods. 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.399 No, He's absolutely not out of the woods, because there 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.160 are so many different ways in which he can be 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.320 placed back in detention. The first would be for an 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.399 appellate court to place him back in detention under the 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:28.640 guys that his entire habeas proceeding. There's no jurisdiction for 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:31.959 the lower court judge to actually issue any of the 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.920 orders he's issuing. This is a big undecided issue in 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:40.200 the immigration system, which is do these types of habeas 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:44.600 claims have to be decided actually in the context of 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.360 the removal preceding itself, and not in a habeas claim, 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:50.920 but rather just what happens is you go to an 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:54.880 immigration judge, you say that the law is unconstitutional that 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.680 says that you can be banned from the country because 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:01.160 of foreign policy reasons. The immigrant just says they don't 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.600 have jurisdiction. Then the Board of Immigration Appeal says they 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.800 don't have jurisdiction, and only then you can make this 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.160 constitutional claim to a court of appeals as part of 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:15.120 a petition for review. So that's the argument the government's making, 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:20.120 and they actually have pretty strong statutory authority for this. 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.360 The problem is that could take years, and so the 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.360 question is will the Supreme Court say, look, you actually 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.960 can be detained for years while you make these kinds 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:33.600 of claims or does the court allow this kind of 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:37.519 habeas for this exact type of situation. So there's that, 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.600 But then there's a whole second issue, which is that 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.160 they're actually trying to deport in not just for this 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:46.880 calm to foreign policy reason, but they're also saying that 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:51.400 he lied on his green card application, and that in 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:55.120 and of itself justifies his detention and removal if they 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.040 can show that the lies on the green card application 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.799 or material and the lies were all about various associations 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:03.960 that he's had in the past that he did not 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:07.679 report when there was this question that says, please tell 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.320 me about any organizations that you've been a member of, 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.120 and he didn't put any of these organizations on his application, 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.720 and the question is are those omissions materials? And so 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.399 the lower court judge said that because there wasn't any 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:24.239 evidence that the government provided, they did not think that 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:29.280 detention and removal was based on that issue. That is 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:33.600 never used to justify detention and removal. But if an 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.040 appellate court used that either of those two issues are 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:40.440 sufficient to place him back in detention and ultimately removal, 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:44.720 then Khalil will be either redetained and ultimately removed and 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.040 so he's definitely not out of the woods. 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.640 Yet can't the government bring up at any point that 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:52.560 you lied on your green court application? 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.840 They absolutely can, and that's why it was kind of 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.240 remarkable what the district judge said. The district judge basically 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.320 said that this was a pretextual claim, and because he 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.120 viewed it as a pretextual claim, he wasn't going to 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.280 allow the government to keep Khalil in detention. There's a 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.120 lot of precarious parts about the lower court's order, but 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.480 that's the most precarious part, because there wasn't even a 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:19.720 dispute that the government has this authority to detain and 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:23.560 remove on the basis of these omissions. But the district said, look, 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.400 there wasn't any strong evidence that you've done this in 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.360 the past in this context, and so I'm going to 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.400 view this as pretextual and say that you are doing 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:37.160 this because of Mahmud Khalil's complaints about the war, you know, 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:41.560 between the Israelis and the Palestinians. And so that's kind 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:46.200 of a remarkable decision in terms of its far reaching authority. 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:48.480 And we're going to see if an appellate court tries 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:49.920 to rein that in he. 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.800 Says he's going to continue his protests, and since his 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.359 release he's been doing just that. Is he hurting his 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:00.159 case in any way by continuing the pro chest. 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:03.800 I definitely think now we're at the point where he's 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:08.159 gonna get all the negative presumptions in terms of his activity, 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.960 whether his activity is viewed in a way that's helpful 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.240 or harmful. It's just a matter now of the sort 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.640 of legal arguments in this case, which are Number one, 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:22.640 is the statute under which he's being detained so vague 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.279 that putting aside anything you think Mamood Khalil is doing, 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.400 it's just so vague. We just don't know what if 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.880 what you're leading is a protest in favor of the 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.880 Red Cross and you're saying give more money to the 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.760 Red Cross, if somebody just doesn't like that and detains you, 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:40.760 And so that's the real question here is is that 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:44.520 statute so vague that it can't be used for any purpose? 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.839 Or will that statute actually not be viewed as vague? 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:51.360 And then the second question, of course, is what is 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.760 the context in which you can challenge this? And so 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:59.360 it's possible that his entire habeas salad was completely unlawful 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:01.719 because you have to only challenge it as part of 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:05.960 the removal process. And then third the specific questions about 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.840 his green card application and whether he lied on it. 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.560 So there's just so many complications in this case that 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:17.120 for him to pull out the perfect straight flush here 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:21.799 would be an incredible legal accomplishment. But I definitely don't 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.600 think that he's doing himself and he favors fact wise 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.480 by doing all of the things he's doing. 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:31.480 I want to turn to jilmoar Abrigo Garcia for a moment, 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:36.480 because a judge rule that he should be released as well, 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:39.320 explain why she said that he shouldn't be kept in 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:40.560 pre trial detention. 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.360 Well, at the end of the day, the issue there is, 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.880 when you're doing a pre trial criminal detention, you're trying 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.480 to decide whether the person is going to be dangerous 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:57.120 and are they going to abscond from their proceedings, And 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.600 the issue there is, at least vis a v the 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:05.520 criminal proceedings, what the judge is basically saying is there 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:10.520 isn't enough evidence here that he's going to be violent enough. Member. 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.600 When you ask for bond from a criminal case, many 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:17.200 people get bond when they're in trial. It doesn't. So 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.080 there are people who are on murder cases who are 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:23.559 on bond during trial, and so it's very actually rare 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.840 that there's no bond at all that's issued. And so 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.360 they're saying, this guy doesn't have a history of actually 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:35.640 committing violent crimes. Number one and number two in terms 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.920 of being a flight risk. This guy's pretty famous and 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.280 notorious now, and so he doesn't actually want to flee 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.960 the country. His whole point is he's wanted to stay 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.840 in the country, and so he would be someone that 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.480 would be absconding. There wouldn't be a risk there, because 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.360 the whole point is this guy's just trying to remain 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:57.960 in the country. But in any case, the fact that 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:01.760 he's gotten this bond doesn't really change anything, because now 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:06.720 what happens is the immigration proceedings will continue because there's 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.840 sort of these two parallel things. There's a deportation process 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.320 and there's a criminal process, and the government can always 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:16.520 elect to do the criminal process first and then do 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.320 the deportation process, but it doesn't have to do it 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.720 that way. And so if this judge says he can 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.280 go free on bond, then what the immigration folks will 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.000 do is say, well, we'll just then continue the immigration 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:33.760 process of trying to get him deported, and that part 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:37.000 of the process has to do with showing that conditions 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:40.640 in El Salvador have changed such that he would be 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.599 able to be sent there without being tortured, which is 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:47.080 itself going to be quite a tricky case because if 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:48.880 he's just going to be sent back to that same 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.160 Sea Coot facility, this might not be the easiest case 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.240 as opposed to he was going to be sent to 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:58.480 El Salvador and be freed, then okay, you can make 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.360 a better argument that the game related torture he was 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.280 worried about in the past isn't going to happen now. 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.840 But there's this whole separate claim about, well, the president 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.600 of Olsavador has called him a terrorist, and if he 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.640 puts him back in seacocks, are the conditions in the 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:17.960 seacot facility tends about the torture. So this case is 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:22.120 even messier than the Khalil case, and we'll just have 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.720 to wait and see. But the upshot is he's not 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.720 going to be free from detension one way or another. Again, 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.440 he's another one that will need the straight plush of 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.400 having both the criminal court free him from bond, and 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.960 an immigration court judge who will free him in a 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:39.319 bond proceeding as well. 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.880 Yes, these cases are so complicated. I guess they're showing 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:47.920 the public how complicated the immigration laws are. Let's talk 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:54.160 about sanctuary cities and sanctuary states. Attorneys general in twenty states, 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:59.360 mostly Democratic led states, have sued the administration. Their claims 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.840 are sort of similar to other lawsuits that have sued 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:03.839 the administration for different things. 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:07.120 Yes, what happened in the particular case that just got 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:11.240 decided earlier last week was that the Secretary of Transportation, 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:16.480 Sean Duffy, had tried to block transportation funds, which are 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.800 funds that the Congress sets for the purpose of giving 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.840 them to the states and to the cities for roads 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.600 and bridges and tunnels and that kind of thing. And 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:30.800 Secretary Duffi's claim was, why should sanctuary cities get this money. 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.760 They're just ruining everything, They're causing all these problems. I'm 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:38.160 going to give it to cities that actually will try 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.480 to improve their communities and not be sanctuary cities. Those 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.559 are his words, not mine. And so he said these 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.560 conditions that said you will have to make a certification 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.360 that you're not a sanctuary city in order to get 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.480 these funds. And so again, as you said, the states 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.839 and the city sued, and the federal court judge in 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:01.400 Rhode Island actually blocked this ability to say that you 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:04.800 can't get funding unless you say you're not a sanctuary 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.960 city because he said that the Congress didn't actually when 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:12.640 they issued these grants contemplate anything related to sanctuary cities 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.040 at all. And so the point is, maybe if the 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.400 Congress had said something about that, you could have an argument, 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:23.040 But the Congress just said, hey, based these grant allocations 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.640 on the transportation means of the states of the cities, 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.839 and the story. That's it. So there isn't any authority 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:34.640 for the Secretary of Transportation to add new requirements, especially 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.720 not ones that are related to immigrations. 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:41.800 Leon are there any sanctuary cities or states because of this, 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:46.120 you know, pushed by the Trump administration that are retreating 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:47.400 from their positions. 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.280 So there's a couple of problems. So in some states, 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:55.439 like for instance, if you say California, California actually has 0:11:55.679 --> 0:12:00.360 a state law that requires all of the city in 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:04.080 California to be sanctuary cities as a state. They say 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:09.120 the states and the cities cannot cooperate with ICE vis 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.840 a ve giving either access to the jails or with 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:16.640 regard to detaining people and reporting them to ICE, and 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:18.960 so in those situations, there are plenty of cities in 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:24.559 California that are voicing a desire to cooperate with ICE, 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:28.160 but they're not able to because of state law. And 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.880 in a lot of big cities there's that problem. But 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.920 in other cities where the states are not constraining them, 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.840 you are seeing some efforts. It's sort of the same 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.120 thing you're seeing with the law firms and a little 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.400 bit with the universities, except that no university has yet 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:49.320 reached an agreement with the Trump administration. Where there are 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.960 some cities that are trying to broker deals with the 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:57.360 Trump administration to get themselves off of the naughty list, 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:00.640 so to speak, but again none have been a But 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.040 there are some cities that are sort of lower profile 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:08.080 cities that are trying to broker those deals to get 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.440 themselves off this list, but again none have been finalized 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:12.559 and none have been announced. 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.240 Coming up next, Trump gets an immigration win at the 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:19.160 Supreme Court. This is Bloomberg. There's been a lot of 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:24.239 publicity over federal immigration officials conducting large scale arrests outside 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:28.560 immigration courtrooms across the country. In many cases, immigrants are 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:32.720 arrested after a judge grants a government request to dismiss 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:37.160 their case, making them eligible for expedited removal. I've been 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.559 talking to immigration law expertly on Fresco of Holland and 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.160 Knight Leon is what the government is doing in these cases, 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:49.160 dismissing the case and then arresting them. Is it legal? 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:54.120 Yes, it is legal. ICE can and the reason it 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:58.319 actually does choose the immigration court is because the individuals 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.240 have gone through security so they don't have any weapons. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.400 They're not home, they're not in a school, they're not 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:08.160 in a place where it will be a major scene, 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.319 sort of a place where you wouldn't expect to be caught. Now, 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.959 the problem is if you go to immigration courts and 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:17.439 you apprehend people, people will stop going to immigration court, 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:19.360 which is not what you want. You want them to 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.240 go to court and then you want them to see 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.640 what happens after that. But now people are not going 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:26.720 to go to court. But that's the reason why ICE 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.320 is doing it. Now. The second thing that they're doing 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.600 as you said, is they're not just waiting to see 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:36.280 who loses and then apprehend them, which theoretically people would 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.400 understand that. They would say, look, if you get a 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:44.040 deportation order, why not actually place the person in deportation 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.640 custody at that point and deport them. Why let them 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.560 just go home and have to go get them some 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.160 other day and deport them. So I think people understand 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.120 that point. But what's happening now is this second thing 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:02.000 where they're saying, we're going to actually cut your deportation 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.080 proceedings off. We're going to dismiss them, which in a 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.640 theory is a benefit to the foreign nationals. But what 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.800 they're doing is they're asking them to be dismissed because 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.200 they don't want to go through the two year process 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.520 that these hearings sake. They want to put them in 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:21.760 something called expedited removal. The difference is is once you're 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:26.120 in expedited removal, you can be placed in mandatory detention. 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.600 There is no bond from that. And what expedited removal 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.600 is is if you've been in the country less than 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:36.600 two years, you actually don't need to go through the 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:41.440 whole formal removal process. So long as you haven't articulated 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.080 a credible fear of being persecuted on the basis of 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:49.840 your race, religion, national origin, social group, or political opinions. 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.640 And so what happens is there's a been about five 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.800 six hundred thousand people who have been parolled under that 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:02.800 Biden Cuban, Haitian, Nicaraguans Whalen parole, and also hundreds of 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.960 other thousands of people that have gotten temporary protected status, 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.920 and so some of those people actually don't have any 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:14.320 such claims for persecution. So what Ice is trying to 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.200 do is say, let's take some of those people just 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.560 because they're very low hanging fruit, and when we terminate 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:24.520 their status, place them in expedite and removal and cut 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.240 off their two or three year immigration proceeding so that 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:32.040 we can place them in mandatory detention. And so it's 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:36.440 really just about that. And also remember that they've been 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.240 getting a lot of political pressure to have three thousand 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.120 arrests per day, and so this is just again the 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.920 lowest hanging fruit way of getting those three thousand arrests 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:46.400 per day. 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.120 So, speaking about immigration court and people not wanting to 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.720 show up for fear of arrest, let's talk about the 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:58.600 Alien Registration Act, which has not been used in seventy 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.600 five years. You know, it's still on the books. 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:05.320 Though, correct, there's laws that require that if you haven't 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.040 registered with the federal government when you've entered the country, 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.720 you're actually committing a misdemean And so what happens is 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.040 the way it's being interpreted right now, and say they 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.680 tried to get it and enjoined and they failed. Meaning 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.040 the courts have actually recently and meaning this year, have 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:25.679 said that the Trump administration can enforce this registration requirement. 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.000 The Trump administration has said, look, if you entered with 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.119 a visa, then you've registered, that's fine. But if you 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:35.480 cross the border and nobody knows you're here, you just 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:39.560 crossed illegally. If we find you and you didn't register, 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.840 we can put you in jail. We can prosecute you 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:47.520 for failure to register. And what you're seeing now is 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:53.840 because there's not enough space in immigration detention facilities to 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.399 place all of these people in the deportation process in 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.120 an immigration detention facility. The other way that these three 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.199 thousand arrests are being executed is that some of these 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.840 people are actually being placed in federal criminal prosecutions and 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:13.200 proceedings to say, look, you just didn't register as someone 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.080 who's here undocumented, so they're actually going to prosecute you 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.600 for this crime. And the added benefit of that to 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.919 the Trump administration is by doing that, that sort of 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:29.760 creates another deterrent factor, another tactic that will make people 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:34.800 who cross the border illegally hear very, very nervous about 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:37.960 remaining in the country, because in addition to just being deported, 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.440 now there's this other possibility that they can be criminally 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:47.000 prosecuted and criminally detained for failure to report their statistie. 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.359 But then one might argue, well, why don't they just 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.720 report their status, and certainly they should, but then the 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:54.680 fear as well if they do that, does that make 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.640 them low hanging fruit for ice to come pick them 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:01.640 up anyway? And so that's the forty two situation that 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:05.200 those individuals are in. But the point is, if there's 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.840 any interaction at all that any person who crossed the 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.360 border has with police, it's very likely now that they're 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.320 going to be charged with this failure to register and 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.240 be criminally prosecuted for it. 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.320 DHS estimates that up to three point two million immigrants 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.679 are currently unregistered and would be affected by this. But 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.280 there are several cases, like five cases or so, and 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:34.640 a federal magistrate judge dismissed the criminal cases right. 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:39.040 Well, some federal magistrate judges are saying that people are 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:43.720 not intentionally refusing to register, and so they're interpreting the 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.800 statute as saying that the only way you can actually 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.760 be prosecuted is if you knew you had this requirement 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:54.440 and intentionally refused to register. And so from that perspective, 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.040 there's going to be some debate about, well, does ICE 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:00.840 need to sort of do a double cat, which is 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:03.760 catch the person, tell them to register, and only if 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:07.640 they don't register then you can prosecute them. And that's 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:09.440 going to be another of these issues that's going to 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.000 have to work their way up to the Supreme Court. 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.399 Is do you have some duty to know already that 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.639 you have to register or does the government have to 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:20.760 tell you you have to register and only then do 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:21.760 you have to register? 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:24.440 And how much is the possible sentence? 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:28.160 The maximum is six months in prison, but I don't 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:30.679 think anybody would actually get six months in prison. And 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:33.879 I think the larger issue is just that it's just 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.639 another way to when they arrest you. They can arrest you, 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.120 they can put you in the tension, separate you from 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.240 your family, and just that trauma that that whole process 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.080 creates is basically the reason for doing it. 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.400 A lot of these tactics by the Trump administration are 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:52.560 to encourage illegal immigrants to self deport. 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.720 Correct, that's the whole point of this. By creating the 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.840 various touch points in which one can be apprehended and 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:05.080 can eventually either be detained or prosecuted or deported or 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:08.840 otherwise inconvenience. There's now, by the way, new regulation that's 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:11.680 going to come out soon for the people that overstayed. 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.399 So those are not people that registered, but the people 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.800 oversay that will find them each day and we'll see 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.200 if the courts allow that to happen. But that'll be 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.560 yet another checkpoint is if you get this gigantic bill 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.840 for hundreds of thousands of dollars for you know, every 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.000 day that you've been in the country and lawfully you 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:32.280 got to fined fifty dollars or something like that. And 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.640 so all of these are various touch points that they're 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:37.959 trying to create to basically force people to self support 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:40.119 from the United States And let's. 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.639 Turn to Harvard for a minute, because it's a little 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:46.879 confusing to me. What has the Trump administration tried to 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:53.600 do with regard to Harvard and its foreign students. 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:55.680 From multiple things. The first attempt was just to say, 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.920 every school in America that wants to bring a fore 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:03.520 students into their school has to get an approval from 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:07.679 something called SEVP, the Student Exchange Visitor Program, which is 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:11.080 part of ICE Immigration and Customs Enforcement. And so once 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:14.439 you have that approval, you basically have the ability to 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:18.320 give these permission flips out. They're called I twenty forms 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:21.159 that gives a student that you've admitted to your school 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.480 the right to go to an embassy and ask for 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:28.520 a student visa. And so what Harvard did is Harvard, 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:31.960 like everyone else, gave out these I twenties and students 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:34.239 had visas and they were at Harvard. And so what 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:38.120 the Trump administration said is we wanted to terminate your 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:43.080 SEVP status, meaning put Harvard back into the position as 0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:46.040 if it had never been given disapproval at all, like 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.600 if it was just a brand new university that can't 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:53.080 bring foreign students in. And this would have had two effects. One, 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:56.360 don't do students could have come in and gotten visas. 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:00.240 But number two, the students who are at Harvard would 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:04.680 immediately lose their ability to continue studying at Harvard because 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:07.840 every student who's here on a student visa has to 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:11.320 have what's called that quote unquote active status in the 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:15.160 Student Exchange Visitor Program in order to have lawful status. 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:17.960 And so what the Trump administration had said to those 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:21.240 students was, you have to transfer. You have to leave 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:23.600 Harvard as student as possible and go to some other 0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:26.960 school if you want to maintain your status. So Harvard 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:31.159 asks for an injunction, and they get an injunction or 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:33.439 they get a temporary restraining order, and now they have 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:37.919