Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2: Hello, sir, Hello, I'm right, I am fair admitting and
Speaker 2: that s they say sometimes here, Okay, it's good. Hello everyone.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm like Iah by the way, because my name
Speaker 3: is harder to pronounce.
Speaker 2: What is it? What is the hard name? I want
Speaker 2: to hear the hard name.
Speaker 3: Lie eight.
Speaker 2: Is not hard. If you know when you told now,
Speaker 2: I may have it may have been hard if I
Speaker 2: had to read it right. Yeah, we said lay up
Speaker 2: for the person. We all decided to get media or
Speaker 2: reading class.
Speaker 3: You look amazing. I love that shirt.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Love
Speaker 4: Supreme Duo style.
Speaker 2: I like this season.
Speaker 4: We're doing combinations of solos, duos, trios.
Speaker 3: A mere perfect combination.
Speaker 2: Yes we is this our first duo.
Speaker 3: It's been a while. We've been like a couple of times,
Speaker 3: but it's been a while.
Speaker 2: We haven't done a duo yet. I got that. I
Speaker 2: got that.
Speaker 4: So today special episode of Quest Loves Supreme. Today we
Speaker 4: are welcoming a Grammy Award winning legendary singer, songwriter, author,
Speaker 4: television producer, actor to say that he comes from a
Speaker 4: musical dynasty that rivals no one else an influential musical
Speaker 4: dynasty is really understating it. It can't be emphasized enough.
Speaker 4: How powerful you know? I come from the hip hop generation.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: When we see the W, we think of Wu Tang.
Speaker 4: But there's a certain generation they think of a musical
Speaker 4: dynasties with the letter W.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: One name that comes to mind, and that our guest
Speaker 4: is part of that music dynasty. Of course, in addition
Speaker 4: to his bloodline and his siblings singing, his entire family singing.
Speaker 4: Our guest has worked with so many greats today name
Speaker 4: him Stevie Wonder, Eric Clapton, and he needed Baker, Detroit's
Speaker 4: own Anita Baker, David Foster, and I definitely want to
Speaker 4: get into his friendship and creativity with the one and
Speaker 4: only Whitney Houston. And right now he has a new
Speaker 4: single father in Heaven with saxophonist Gerald Albright. We are
Speaker 4: delighted to have brother BB one and Zo on Quest
Speaker 4: Love Supreme.
Speaker 2: A thank you, sir. How you doing I'm doing? Or
Speaker 2: should I say what up? Though both I will say too,
Speaker 2: I'm doing great. I really am great. Great. Do you
Speaker 2: still reside in Detroit or where do you live now? No,
Speaker 2: I moved to Nashville, Tennessee, forty years ago, and everybody
Speaker 2: years ago. You know when you can say forty and
Speaker 2: you got a whole lot of years after that, you're old.
Speaker 4: See, you know what, I didn't stay young, but I
Speaker 4: say I would have said four decades ago.
Speaker 2: I tried to compress it. You can say two.
Speaker 4: Scores ago if you you know, if you're talking about rebuffs,
Speaker 4: two scores ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, But so so I moved down here forty
Speaker 2: years ago, and then the girls came tumbling after, which
Speaker 2: is cc ang and Debbie, my three sisters. So all
Speaker 2: of us lived here in Nashville and our families and so.
Speaker 3: So y'all are the y'all are the pioneers because all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, everybody, I mean, we knew that the
Speaker 3: country thing was happening, but when it came to the
Speaker 3: black country and the black scene, like Nashville's popping.
Speaker 2: So besides Jill, who else is in Nashville? You know
Speaker 2: a lot of people have moved from the industry. That
Speaker 2: you have Reese Witherspoon, you have Nicole Kipman. I'm hearing
Speaker 2: now Beyonce's coming through this way.
Speaker 3: Yeah from s W v and Eddie George like they down.
Speaker 2: George and everything. So Nashville has changed tremendously. But when
Speaker 2: even when I moved here, I mean, if you didn't
Speaker 2: know Nashville, you would think country. But the reason why
Speaker 2: I moved is because it was such a great haven
Speaker 2: for writing. And you had to say music, not even country,
Speaker 2: but music in general, gospel, inspirational, R and B. You
Speaker 2: had it all here, the writers. So that's why I moved.
Speaker 2: My family was angry at me when I moved, I
Speaker 2: mean to the point where you can't do that. I
Speaker 2: was like, whoa, whoa, I'm twenty six.
Speaker 3: Was it about leaving Detroit or going to Nashville?
Speaker 2: Leaving Detroit? You know, my family very close knitted family,
Speaker 2: and me being the baby boy, I had six older
Speaker 2: brothers and so they thought they were my father's too,
Speaker 2: and so, oh god, all that works out. First of all,
Speaker 2: how many winings are there? Siblings?
Speaker 3: Thank you and mayor for asking this question.
Speaker 2: I can say that either way, there's a lot of them.
Speaker 2: Or I can say ten. It was ten seven boys
Speaker 2: straight my mom and dad had I'm not that boy,
Speaker 2: and then three girls after me.
Speaker 4: Wow, Okay, I'm not even going to get into the
Speaker 4: nephews and everything.
Speaker 2: So when you add it all up, you know, we
Speaker 2: go to a certain city family reunions or nightmare every
Speaker 2: other Thanksgiving. Oh god, the last one we had like
Speaker 2: one hundred and eight people wait for Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving? How
Speaker 2: do y'all even decide that you'll? Yeah, is this there's
Speaker 2: a certain my baby's sister is the one that's actually
Speaker 2: in charge, and so we rent five homes and not
Speaker 2: only Thanksgiving, but week that whole week. So after Thanksgiving
Speaker 2: is over, that week, you don't want to see no
Speaker 2: more winings for a good two years. So it's Thanksgiving
Speaker 2: the family reunion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know how many winings are on record? Literally,
Speaker 3: how many winings have recorded?
Speaker 2: Well you have you know when my when my brother
Speaker 2: started off, it was the four brothers the wine. Then
Speaker 2: you had me and Cec right, my brother Daniel, who
Speaker 2: is the sole artist. You have my two sisters, Angie
Speaker 2: and Debbie. And then after years down the road that
Speaker 2: my mom and dad recorded. So they met. My mom
Speaker 2: and dad met in a group called the Lemon Gospel Corps.
Speaker 2: That's how they met. My father was an only child
Speaker 2: and my mother only had one sister, and so they met,
Speaker 2: and then a sister in law, VICKI recorded, so within
Speaker 2: the family, tell you this. There's about forty five Grammy Awards.
Speaker 3: It's a Jackson's wine in Battle.
Speaker 2: Oh no, the wine is one. Oh okay, damn At
Speaker 2: least in the pop world.
Speaker 4: Like you know, Silvers were allowed to exist, Like I
Speaker 4: think to most people, the Winings are the only dynasty
Speaker 4: that matters and gospel, even though I'm certain that there
Speaker 4: are other Hawkins family, Yes, yes.
Speaker 2: And and so yeah, we we and we grew up together,
Speaker 2: we being me and the clarks Us and the clarks
Speaker 2: sisters you know, same high school, you know, fred Ham
Speaker 2: and all them, and so we've always been a great,
Speaker 2: big family and understood it the doors that they opened,
Speaker 2: the doors that we opened with for other people, for
Speaker 2: each other, and so you know, we've always learned to
Speaker 2: celebrate each other, right, and and everything that has happened
Speaker 2: for all of us.
Speaker 4: You know, I was going to say that it was
Speaker 4: really important for me to have you on here because
Speaker 4: you and your sister CC specifically were responsible for like
Speaker 4: a paradigm shift in the Thompson household. Oh it was Philadelphia,
Speaker 4: So you know, and I've explained this on the show
Speaker 4: a lot that there was kind of a period where
Speaker 4: like I basically came home one day and there was
Speaker 4: a new regime and my dad was like, we're all
Speaker 4: born again.
Speaker 2: Wait, huh what happened? And this is all I know.
Speaker 4: Something happened in seventy nine, and I kind of feel
Speaker 4: like the first domino that fell because my father.
Speaker 2: Was in the music business as well.
Speaker 4: And the first domino that fell was there was a
Speaker 4: moment where in downa Summer. It explains this in her
Speaker 4: documentary where it was like seventy eight seventy nine, and
Speaker 4: this is when she was literally on top of the
Speaker 4: world in terms of her career and all that stuff.
Speaker 4: But of course, you know, there's an emptiness inside of her,
Speaker 4: and I believe she might have been conto plating suicide
Speaker 4: or whatever, and whatever the situation was, she had this
Speaker 4: revelation and she became born again, and she shared the
Speaker 4: story on either the seven hundred Club or the PTL Club.
Speaker 4: I believe it was the seven hundred Club. It's Pat Robinson.
Speaker 4: Because of terrestrial television and not having access to cable,
Speaker 4: my dad would just leave the channel on either PTL
Speaker 4: or seven hundred Club would just buy blocks.
Speaker 2: Right, four hour blocks, five hour blocks on.
Speaker 4: Certain UHF stations, and my dad would just constantly keep
Speaker 4: it running. And so around eighty one something really touched
Speaker 4: my dad in the morning whatever and he ordered something
Speaker 4: you know, call this is one eight hundred number to
Speaker 4: get your prayer package or whatever. And inside of that
Speaker 4: prayer package thing was a forty five and the forty.
Speaker 2: Five was.
Speaker 4: Up, not exactly a cover of Joe Cocker and Jennifer
Speaker 4: Warren's Love Lifts Up Where We Belong from Offers and
Speaker 4: a Gentleman, but a gospel version of it.
Speaker 2: Wow, And my dad played, remember that version, you are
Speaker 2: wearing me out right, this bobus.
Speaker 3: This is both of them a mirror, this is this
Speaker 3: is this Islaiah.
Speaker 4: So this will explain all the prince punishments and all
Speaker 4: those things, because I didn't get the memo that we
Speaker 4: are now born again and what that entails. Because before
Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy nine, I would say my parents were
Speaker 4: relatively hip. They were sixties revolutionaries. Yeah, you were Afros
Speaker 4: and you know my mom. They had a sprawling record
Speaker 4: collection of four thousand records. They were hip, and then
Speaker 4: something happened in nineteen eighty eighty one, they became born
Speaker 4: again and this this.
Speaker 2: Was happening, you know. And I think that when you
Speaker 2: are like in the Revolution in the eary.
Speaker 4: Sixties and the hedonistic seventies, then the eighties were sort
Speaker 4: of seen as an atonement period for some. And man,
Speaker 4: when he got that forty five, he played it so much.
Speaker 3: That's the only song that was on there.
Speaker 2: It was a forty five or five, but it's what
Speaker 2: it's what made them stars.
Speaker 4: And then so if anything, I think for a lot
Speaker 4: of people, they came to your brothers first.
Speaker 2: No, from my household, BB and CC were first.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my house old BB and CC was first, right,
Speaker 3: and then it was like, wait, there's more.
Speaker 2: So suddenly, maybe a year later, I'm hearing this no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: no no song over and over again. I'm like, they
Speaker 2: got another song.
Speaker 5: It's like, no, there's then just between eighty one and
Speaker 5: eighty seven, like whining's only the entire clan.
Speaker 2: So I definitely got questions to ask. Let's go. I
Speaker 2: don't know if to say thank you or I'm sorry?
Speaker 2: Is that I too? You know what? Okay, So here's
Speaker 2: the deal.
Speaker 4: Oh, because I'm twelve thirteen, and this this happens with
Speaker 4: every twelve and thirteen year old, Like once your parents
Speaker 4: lay down the law, you see it as.
Speaker 2: Punishment, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh yeah, and so but look I say
Speaker 4: this way, I joke now that even I'm starting now
Speaker 4: to have fond memories of the pandemic, like ah, man,
Speaker 4: it was fun like living in the farm, you know,
Speaker 4: taking long walks, not having to work, like of course
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty it was like, oh god, the world's
Speaker 4: about the end. Like now I'm starting to have like
Speaker 4: pandemic fond memories. So that said, when I now think
Speaker 4: of like my tweens and how heavy the whinings were
Speaker 4: inside of that family, all of your work, all of
Speaker 4: their work, and all your simply like included, now I
Speaker 4: can say, yeah, those were fond memories.
Speaker 3: I'm not traumatized.
Speaker 4: No, the traumatizing part was wanting to listen to rap
Speaker 4: music secular music and trying to sneak it in the
Speaker 4: house and getting busted.
Speaker 2: But oh yeah, oh yeah, and so the thing is
Speaker 2: so but I'm tickled. I could laugh for the rest
Speaker 2: of this interview. I understand. So you have to understand
Speaker 2: being raised in the household I was raised in. My
Speaker 2: father laid down the law there would be no other
Speaker 2: type of music in my household except gospel music. Detroit.
Speaker 2: Though Detroit, I'm saying Motown where hurt where one street
Speaker 2: ahead Santa Barbara to the left, Smokey Robinson Lyve. We
Speaker 2: used to rush to his house to shovel snow because
Speaker 2: Smokey would give you like twenty five dollars instead of
Speaker 2: you know, and three blocks behind us on Santa Maria
Speaker 2: lived Stevie Wonder. Not only was it Motown four more
Speaker 2: blocks down the street, the four Tops. So we had
Speaker 2: all this great, great, great music and we could not
Speaker 2: listen to it in the house. So sometimes, you know,
Speaker 2: we would take a song from that era and then
Speaker 2: we would switch to words and my father to know, ye, what.
Speaker 4: Last light is like the light or something exact. What
Speaker 4: was your what was your first musical well wow, okay, now,
Speaker 4: nor what was your first musical memory in life?
Speaker 2: Well? You know so so growing up seriously in the
Speaker 2: household I grew up in. Music was always a part
Speaker 2: of my life, whether that was in church or at school,
Speaker 2: school choir. So it was always a love of my
Speaker 2: whole entire family. Not knowing it would be our career.
Speaker 2: But my father and mother saw the passion for music,
Speaker 2: and so they sacrificed. You know, my father was a
Speaker 2: barber by trade. He worked in the car manufactory and
Speaker 2: everything else between there, you know, because he had to
Speaker 2: support ten kids.
Speaker 4: Wait, can I see something? Were they part of what
Speaker 4: we would call the great migration from down south where
Speaker 4: blacks were escaping down south to go to the north
Speaker 4: of my great grandfather.
Speaker 2: Yes, from Mississippi.
Speaker 4: Okay, so they came to Detroit to fine industry and yeah, okay, I'm.
Speaker 2: Had definitely born and raised in Detroit, and so we
Speaker 2: you know, my father sacrifice bought us a piano, and
Speaker 2: none of us went to school and learn how to
Speaker 2: play piano. It was self talk, but we had a passion.
Speaker 2: So they really poured into us. So we sung all
Speaker 2: the time, you know, not knowing it would be our
Speaker 2: career yet and still we learned so much. And my
Speaker 2: father used to tell us, before you are international, you
Speaker 2: gotta be regional, I mean national, Before you're national, you
Speaker 2: got to be regional before your regional got to be local.
Speaker 2: And so we were taught to be faithful with our talent.
Speaker 2: So you know, whether it's three people in audience. We
Speaker 2: sung like it was two thousand, you know, and gave
Speaker 2: it our all. And then doors started opening here, doors
Speaker 2: started opening there. My music me and CC was totally
Speaker 2: different from my brothers because of my fourth grade teacher,
Speaker 2: Miss bids, I'll never forget this because it shifted me.
Speaker 2: I always wanted to write more so, always been more
Speaker 2: passionate of writing than singing, and so in the fourth
Speaker 2: grade he said to the students, I have a poem
Speaker 2: I'm gonna read to you, And that was really the
Speaker 2: time to go to sleep. But she read The Wind,
Speaker 2: and when she read it, it captivated me. He said,
Speaker 2: why does the wind so want to be here in
Speaker 2: my little room with me? When he's all the world
Speaker 2: to blow about? And just because he keeps him out,
Speaker 2: he cannot wait a moment? Still be frets upon my
Speaker 2: window ceiling sometimes brings a noisy rain to help him
Speaker 2: better at the pain. Upon my door, he comes and knocks,
Speaker 2: and he rattles and rattles at the locks. He lifts
Speaker 2: the latch and stirs the key and waits a moment Previously,
Speaker 2: tell me, why does the wind so want to be
Speaker 2: here in my little room with me? And I was like,
Speaker 2: thank you Jesus. WHOA wow? That was profounding? You Okay,
Speaker 2: it was profound. So when I wrote songs like love
Speaker 2: said not so, I wanted to write it in a
Speaker 2: way that caused people to think, you know, and so
Speaker 2: doing that it separated me and Cecy from my brothers.
Speaker 2: And Ceci and I wasn't a duet until we went
Speaker 2: down to PTL and joined the Ptail Singers, and Jim
Speaker 2: Baker came in the room and said, I heard a
Speaker 2: song on the radio from officer and a gentleman, and
Speaker 2: I want, you know, change a couple of works and
Speaker 2: I want you Bb and cc y'all sing it together.
Speaker 4: Jim Baker, It was that instantaneous how we became a duet.
Speaker 4: How does one start a gospel business where suddenly you're
Speaker 4: now making a living off it?
Speaker 2: Like, how does this start in your household? Well, my father,
Speaker 2: you know, our biggest fan, and he felt as if
Speaker 2: you know what, you guys are talented, talented enough to record,
Speaker 2: So he put his money into recording the first forty
Speaker 2: five for my brothers. As that continue, that door opened
Speaker 2: another door in that door, and before you know it,
Speaker 2: my brothers met Andre Crouch and the Disciples who were
Speaker 2: our heroes, and he signed them and the first to
Speaker 2: Light Records or Records? Yes, where was Light located in
Speaker 2: all Saneles? Gee? I thought it was a Detroit label, okay.
Speaker 2: And the first single that Ray released in nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: was question he is no No No, No no No.
Speaker 4: And I came in backwards. But so that that first
Speaker 4: album did start the dynasty.
Speaker 2: So me and CC at the it was a the
Speaker 2: question is was out first? And then CC released that
Speaker 2: first single for PTL. Uh Lord left us up when
Speaker 2: we belonged, and so we were on different tracks, probably
Speaker 2: a year or so in between the release of their
Speaker 2: song and the release of our song on PTL Records.
Speaker 3: I'm still in shocked at Jim Baker's ear, my mind,
Speaker 3: his ear, don't hear y'all, but he did he did. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm a shock of that.
Speaker 2: So you have to understand. So me and CC we
Speaker 2: had before we came to PTL, we had a group
Speaker 2: and the Whinings Part two, and in that group was
Speaker 2: another brother, Danielle. At the time, Vicky was married to
Speaker 2: Marvin and then another friend. And so after a couple
Speaker 2: of years, she said I remember us looking at each
Speaker 2: other saying do you feel what I feel? And she
Speaker 2: was like, I think so. So we had to go
Speaker 2: back home to Detroit and tell the rest of our
Speaker 2: group this group no longer exists. Y'all gotta go back
Speaker 2: and get all easy to do that? That was so difficult.
Speaker 3: Did people walk away upset?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yes? My father was angry because you know, my
Speaker 2: father was like, we got to stick together. And I said, Daddy,
Speaker 2: we are.
Speaker 4: But me and CC, well, first of all, okay, are
Speaker 4: you the C C respectively consecutive and age. This's the
Speaker 4: first girl. I'm the basic eldest girl. You're the youngest boy. Okay,
Speaker 4: how do you guys even pair up?
Speaker 2: Like? Were you two just that close in age? So Ronald,
Speaker 2: my brother who passed away twenty years ago. Now he
Speaker 2: put me, my brother Daniel, my brother Michael together with CC.
Speaker 2: We were the Christian version of Gladdest Knight in the
Speaker 2: pips Okay Elementary school and they were in high school,
Speaker 2: Mumford High which had a lot of great talent in
Speaker 2: that high school. And for their talent show, he made
Speaker 2: us go sing at that talent show. So we had
Speaker 2: that group and then as time would have it. Michael
Speaker 2: would leave our group and go to their group, and
Speaker 2: they became the Whinings, and so it was just it
Speaker 2: kept evolving. Jim and Tammy that brought us together and
Speaker 2: caused us to be a duet. PJL was was at
Speaker 2: North Carolina, Charlotte Charlotte, North Carolina. It was the place
Speaker 2: if you wanted to be exposed on Christian television. It
Speaker 2: was PTL. It was much bigger than TBN and CBN
Speaker 2: and all those other places. So I met all those people,
Speaker 2: me and CC because everybody came through PTL, even Hollywood.
Speaker 2: You know, if an actor became a Christian, he came
Speaker 2: through PTL. It was the place to go.
Speaker 3: And they were racially welcoming to everyone too well.
Speaker 2: Jim and Tammy was but at the time would go on.
Speaker 2: You know, I would learn a lot how they were
Speaker 2: attacked because of me and Ceci. They broke ground in
Speaker 2: having these colored children. Whoa that was that was controversial. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what I'm saying. Death threats, death threat and he
Speaker 2: hid us from those. So so I would jump over
Speaker 2: to you know, I have a book and I have
Speaker 2: out of the book is the musical that I wrote
Speaker 2: called Born for this which looks like now twenty five spring,
Speaker 2: it will hit Broadway. But one of the things that
Speaker 2: that I did, I went and set with Jim, who
Speaker 2: are still friends to this day, because they became like
Speaker 2: our parents, they really did, and they protected me at Cecy.
Speaker 2: And so I was sitting with him and I told him,
Speaker 2: I said, Jim, you know, me and my co author,
Speaker 2: we took some you know, lead and said there was
Speaker 2: you know, some threats. And Jim looked at me and said,
Speaker 2: be there was many threats. I was like what he said,
Speaker 2: people would call up stead, they were coming up to
Speaker 2: shoot us and kill us. And how could they have
Speaker 2: these black kids on the show and this and that?
Speaker 2: Oh it was. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 3: The hatred these beautiful chocolate babies too, like what.
Speaker 2: Oh they was angry. And then after we received we
Speaker 2: did that duet. I mean you thought you were tired
Speaker 2: of listening to the quest. We were tired of singing
Speaker 2: that song. It was every day.
Speaker 4: How long did it consume you before, like you eventually
Speaker 4: had more songs in your canon that you could you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we sang that song seriously every day
Speaker 2: for maybe every day twice or three times a day
Speaker 2: for two years straight. And so because of that, we
Speaker 2: were asked to come out and sing various other places.
Speaker 2: And so that's when I had to say, CC, we
Speaker 2: gotta we got to create some duets and so taking
Speaker 2: songs that Amy Grant sang, taking so that this one
Speaker 2: saying and made them do X and would go do
Speaker 2: that and so and that's when we realized, you know what,
Speaker 2: I think we're supposed to be a duet, you know,
Speaker 2: and went and had that talk with the family.
Speaker 4: How did the kind of fallout of eighty seven affect you?
Speaker 2: And what.
Speaker 4: Pivot did you had to make once the PTL empire
Speaker 4: kind of came crumbling down.
Speaker 2: I don't is it over now or is there's there's
Speaker 2: other people in that space. So when we decided to leave,
Speaker 2: it was years before that happened because CC was getting
Speaker 2: married moving back to Detroit, and I thought, hey, we
Speaker 2: came together, we're gonna leave together. So it was the
Speaker 2: hardest meeting we had and Tammy cried. It was we
Speaker 2: went to their home for dinner and they cried and
Speaker 2: we both cried. And then Jim said to us, he said,
Speaker 2: you guys are going to be huge stars. And we
Speaker 2: started laughing. He said, I'm not I'm not playing. You're
Speaker 2: going to be stars, you know, and you know talked
Speaker 2: about and we're sorry for you to let you go,
Speaker 2: but we understand, right, So we went back home to Detroit,
Speaker 2: and then we got a call saying, a year or
Speaker 2: so later, Jim and Tabing want you to come back,
Speaker 2: and you can have the freedom you need because we
Speaker 2: have recorded and things started moving in our in our
Speaker 2: career as a duet, and you can have all the
Speaker 2: time you need, but they just want you to come back,
Speaker 2: and we agreed to it, and then then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, get a phone call said Jim said no,
Speaker 2: and no explanation. So it was like, this is confusing.
Speaker 2: I mean, we were you didn't know what was happening.
Speaker 2: I know what has happened. And so when everything tumbled
Speaker 2: and everything came out, we realized that he was protecting us.
Speaker 2: He did not want us to come back and be
Speaker 2: caught up in the store or anything that was happening.
Speaker 2: So he was still loving on us, still protecting us
Speaker 2: as he did when we were there. The whole time.
Speaker 2: I ran into a car as I was cleaning different
Speaker 2: drawers in my home and there was a card from
Speaker 2: Tammy Faye Baker that she wrote to my son bb
Speaker 2: whinings sore, Mom's going to miss you. And so it was.
Speaker 2: It was. It was very moving, but they saw what
Speaker 2: was going to happen in our lives before we saw.
Speaker 4: Did you ever watch the biopic that?
Speaker 2: Yes? Did you feel like it it was depicted fairly?
Speaker 2: Or I thought some things were predicted fairly. You know,
Speaker 2: Tammy Faye was one of the sweetest persons you ever
Speaker 2: want to meet. I mean, when she passed away, it
Speaker 2: was a very hard thing for us. And Jim has
Speaker 2: always been a supporter, right, so they were dear to us. Okay,
Speaker 2: to this day, Jim, I don't agree with everything he says,
Speaker 2: but you know, that's life. At the same time, when
Speaker 2: I opened the musical Born for this the regional run
Speaker 2: in Atlanta, Jim came to that. So I had Jim
Speaker 2: on my right side and I had my mom on
Speaker 2: my other side. There's a scene, there's a scene in
Speaker 2: it where I was dating one of the singers and
Speaker 2: actually Tammy, and this was the racism that existed. Tammy
Speaker 2: was upset as well as others because she was a
Speaker 2: tall blonde and she said, you can't date BB because
Speaker 2: it's not right, and so we ignored it and they
Speaker 2: fired her. So while this scene has gone on, Jim
Speaker 2: leaned in and said, I didn't know that happened. I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry, I said, Jim, that was thirty years ago.
Speaker 2: You even got this.
Speaker 3: Wow, it's so interesting, the subtle racism of things still
Speaker 3: right and yet she still loved you. But that's that's
Speaker 3: what that's seven white folks, I guess exactly.
Speaker 2: But you're talking about something that's embedded and.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know when you're obviously not going back to PTL.
Speaker 4: Was there ever a trepidation of fear, of like what now?
Speaker 2: What? What do I do? You know what? Never fear.
Speaker 2: I was always a big dreamer and some people, so
Speaker 2: my father used to say, there's a thin line between
Speaker 2: confident and conceited. And some people may think you're conceited,
Speaker 2: but what you're going to be is very confident and
Speaker 2: believe in what you have. Right. So I believed that
Speaker 2: that CC and I would accomplish fish things that was
Speaker 2: even beyond our dreams, and so I went for it.
Speaker 2: So I went to Nashville, you know, with a friend
Speaker 2: and took's meetings and then brought Cci and everybody was
Speaker 2: saying no. One person said I don't even hear talent.
Speaker 2: I was like, whoa, I mean, wait what that's what
Speaker 2: the record company said. And I looked at him and I said, okay,
Speaker 2: you mean you don't hear none. That was confusing to me. Okay,
Speaker 2: but that's what he said. And then we kept going.
Speaker 2: So I never ever thought this is not going to happen.
Speaker 2: Never thought that, never, And so the last record company,
Speaker 2: which was Sparrow Records, said yes. And that started the
Speaker 2: serious step and shift in my sister's career and the writing. Again,
Speaker 2: we knew traditional church is not going to like this,
Speaker 2: and they were angry, but that was no fear because
Speaker 2: every song I wrote, I had my mom listen to it,
Speaker 2: and if my mom gave me the thun up, I
Speaker 2: was good. I was looking. So that was the That
Speaker 2: was the path and never stop.
Speaker 4: How are you even aware of what's out there if
Speaker 4: it's not allowed in the house, And did you guys follow.
Speaker 2: The rules or.
Speaker 4: Also like Richard Pryor's status, where you had to like
Speaker 4: sneak and listen to it a.
Speaker 2: Maan when you walked up the house. There's no way
Speaker 2: you couldn't Detroit, Michigan. There's no way you couldn't hear
Speaker 2: or Tops and Stevie Wonder and all these other people.
Speaker 2: So no, and good music always caught my ear. So
Speaker 2: my favorite singer in the world was Donnie Hathaway. Oh,
Speaker 2: if you wanted to make me smile, say, man, you
Speaker 2: you you sound like a little a little bit like Donny,
Speaker 2: what can I buy? You? Got it to me? He
Speaker 2: was the greatest singer of all times. He really was.
Speaker 2: So there were there were vocalists, there was writers that
Speaker 2: I kind of gravitated to. And when I wrote a song,
Speaker 2: I wanted the song to be kind of like distant,
Speaker 2: you know, uh, you know, it was just my imagination, right,
Speaker 2: So it was like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, and and
Speaker 2: and so that was those were my heroes. Those were
Speaker 2: the kind of songs that I was, I was uh
Speaker 2: gravitated to. So when I sat down and started writing
Speaker 2: stuff like I'm Lost with you said, don't have vocal
Speaker 2: move mid mid temple and and lyric was the most
Speaker 2: important that I said something that would cause people to
Speaker 2: be uplifted and to give life another try. Now here's
Speaker 2: the thing.
Speaker 4: When I first heard and that's a good example, like
Speaker 4: if I'm lost without you, I mean obviously you know.
Speaker 2: There was a period.
Speaker 4: Where I remember second grade, somebody either she in a valerie,
Speaker 4: like someone in my school wanted to sing you Light
Speaker 4: up my Life, and my music teacher had to say, like,
Speaker 4: you know that's a gospel song, right, They're like no,
Speaker 4: It's like we had no idea that you the light
Speaker 4: of my life was singing about God or whatever. Some
Speaker 4: point I always wondered if using especially in an example
Speaker 4: if I'm lost without you, would sometimes would you sort
Speaker 4: of ambiguously blur the lines of the pronoun because we
Speaker 4: often think in the gospel world that be you and
Speaker 4: sometimes works in the second world, like.
Speaker 2: I think love too, love right, and I think in.
Speaker 4: The second world, like Philip Billy once told me, like
Speaker 4: it was some earth wind and fire song. I thing
Speaker 4: it was like I had enough, and I'm thinking, like, oh,
Speaker 4: Philip bill is singing about I'm s so tired of
Speaker 4: being on the road and I'm coming home to you, babe.
Speaker 2: And he was like, no, I'm singing about I'm coming
Speaker 2: home to God or whatever.
Speaker 4: As a songwriter, you know, would you say that you
Speaker 4: could catch more fish if your songs are spiritual, but.
Speaker 2: You don't know where it falls. And so what I
Speaker 2: always say and truthfully say that that is I wish
Speaker 2: I was that smart, and I wish I was thinking
Speaker 2: that way. I always this is this is my reality.
Speaker 2: I felt like I had the authorization to tell the
Speaker 2: world what God meant to me in every ho aspect
Speaker 2: of my life, in my love life, in my friendship life,
Speaker 2: in my family life, and my public life, in my
Speaker 2: private every area of my life. I felt like I
Speaker 2: had the authority to write about. So Lost without You
Speaker 2: was definitely all about me saying, Lord, if you leave me,
Speaker 2: I'm totally lost. I am really totally lost. Now let's
Speaker 2: jump into the song. Down the Road. Me and Ceci
Speaker 2: are in Chicago doing a concert. It was a one
Speaker 2: of those musical amphitheaters, and not knowing the night before,
Speaker 2: Janet Jackson was in Chicago in concert, she saw our
Speaker 2: names and the next thing I know, I'm sitting there
Speaker 2: because Fred Hammon was on The Shame Show and I'm
Speaker 2: listening to Fred Hammond and somebody said, excuse me, mister Winings,
Speaker 2: you have to come to your room. It's like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm watching you know, Fred, No, No, you have to.
Speaker 2: I'm watching Fred mister Wayne is Jenny Jackson is on
Speaker 2: the way to your room like Janet, if you're nasty, Jenny,
Speaker 2: I love that you reference. And so we go back
Speaker 2: to the room. Cec it myself and up drives this
Speaker 2: four car convey and Janey gets out and comes to
Speaker 2: the room and the first thing she wants to ask
Speaker 2: is tell me about Loss Without you. It's my favorite song.
Speaker 2: We are you talking about? Really? Yes? I never agree,
Speaker 2: And so that was one of those moments that I
Speaker 2: realized people interpret our songs the way they hear it,
Speaker 2: and that was okay with me. You know, I always
Speaker 2: feel and always felt then and now where there are people,
Speaker 2: whether it's in the club, where it's on the street,
Speaker 2: in the church, in a different venue where there's people,
Speaker 2: there's ministry, and so I'm always excited when my song
Speaker 2: goes beyond the four walls.
Speaker 3: Wait, Can I ask you both a question? Because oftentimes
Speaker 3: on this show I would think that something is created
Speaker 3: and new, but maybe sometimes I'm wrong. So I don't
Speaker 3: want to assume this. But for me and my generation,
Speaker 3: you were that person who blurred the line. And yes,
Speaker 3: you initially maybe you didn't think you were talking about God.
Speaker 3: But then when you realized you were talking about God,
Speaker 3: then it was like, oh this is even better. I'm good,
Speaker 3: you know. So why did it feel so special? Was
Speaker 3: there anybody else for who really could grasp that? Like
Speaker 3: fine line?
Speaker 2: Who is I mean? So you had again, you had
Speaker 2: the Hawkins family, so Edward and you know when he
Speaker 2: did Old Happy Day, that thing went cross.
Speaker 3: You know, but he still said Jesus Christ though.
Speaker 2: Yes, but it went to the pop charte wait, I
Speaker 2: got you okay. You know, music has a way even
Speaker 2: before the lyric of how it's produced and the rhythm
Speaker 2: of it, that will cross the lines. And so you
Speaker 2: take that rhythm that we were taught, you take also
Speaker 2: the message, which is important. And I remember after every
Speaker 2: after every album we recorded, I would sit it on
Speaker 2: the dresser and I would say, you know, Lord, I
Speaker 2: did my part. Can't wait to see what you're going
Speaker 2: to do with it. And so they get a phone
Speaker 2: call from someone in another country saying I was on
Speaker 2: the dance floor dancing to Addictive Love and it was
Speaker 2: my song and and then I realized, oh wow, oh
Speaker 2: that's a Christmas songs And it changed their lives. And
Speaker 2: so I'm always excited when things like that happen.
Speaker 3: But bbe, did you hear what you just said? Like,
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, y'all know that our grandmothers was like,
Speaker 3: don't you be dancing to that gospel music?
Speaker 2: But to me, when I read in the Old test
Speaker 2: when David dance out of his clothes because of what
Speaker 2: God had did, So you know I was free. When
Speaker 2: I went to PTL to Charlotte, North Carolina, I knew
Speaker 2: there was something happening inside of me that brought down
Speaker 2: the walls man made rooms, and I really found out
Speaker 2: more for personally who God was. So you have to understand.
Speaker 2: My first movie was ET, and I remember sitting. I
Speaker 2: had to go see it twice because the first time
Speaker 2: I saw it, I couldn't even I couldn't even enjoy
Speaker 2: it because I heard thunder you got die, I got it,
Speaker 2: got it for you? Was there ever longing to like?
Speaker 2: In making the first album in eighty four?
Speaker 4: Was it up by design that to not make it
Speaker 4: too funky, not make it too slow, asked to not
Speaker 4: turn off the older gospel authority, whereas come eighty seven,
Speaker 4: you guys are like, hey, here's breakbeats, here's a drum machine.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna make it sound like today's music, Like were
Speaker 4: you ever caught in the controversy of don't make the
Speaker 4: sound too No?
Speaker 2: Never, never, And so the answer to the question is
Speaker 2: just so it takes me back back to pt. L.
Speaker 2: So Howard mcquarie was the musical director and he's that
Speaker 2: called knew my brothers and asked if we could come audition.
Speaker 2: So he has a meeting and the last minute, Jim
Speaker 2: Baker called another meeting, and Howard comes to me and said,
Speaker 2: b you gotta do me a favorite. You've got to
Speaker 2: go in and meet with this guy. His name is
Speaker 2: Keith Thomas's from Nashville. He's coming up to meet with me.
Speaker 2: But I can't meet him because the thing. And I
Speaker 2: looked at Howard and said, I'm not going to meet
Speaker 2: somebody who's coming to me. I mean, that makes no sense.
Speaker 2: I would disappoint him as well. And so he said,
Speaker 2: phoebe just just going and meet him, not knowing because
Speaker 2: that I was going to meet the person that I
Speaker 2: would collaborate my whole career with. So when he started
Speaker 2: playing on the piano, it did something inside of me.
Speaker 2: It was like it was like meeting you know your spouse.
Speaker 2: It was like wow, I mean I fell in love
Speaker 2: with his courts. So before the meeting was over, I
Speaker 2: told him, I don't you know, let's let's swap numbers
Speaker 2: because I'm gonna come to Nashville and I'm gonna sit
Speaker 2: with you and there you have it. So it wasn't
Speaker 2: a thing of being worried about what people were going
Speaker 2: to say or how to navigate the craziness between traditional
Speaker 2: and contemporary. I just found my partner and we just
Speaker 2: started creating, and so I you know, I owe you me.
Speaker 2: It was like, yeah, I was gonna say, I owe
Speaker 2: you me.
Speaker 4: Was like, that was the first one, right. Keith Thomas
Speaker 4: to our listeners, don't know. He has so many numbers
Speaker 4: on the board. He's probably going best for I think
Speaker 4: he wrote save.
Speaker 2: The Best for last last.
Speaker 4: Vanessa Williams, did he have something to do with.
Speaker 2: Thomas what he did Amy Grant Baby, Baby Baby, Yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah he did. So. Keith was not being utilized much
Speaker 2: at all in the Christian world until he produced Me
Speaker 2: and CC and then people started finding out. But I
Speaker 2: understand after the first album, Me and CEC were now
Speaker 2: signed to Capitol Records, and so we went up to California,
Speaker 2: had the meeting with the CEO and all these big executives,
Speaker 2: and then the CEO said, Okay, you know you guys
Speaker 2: are going to work with different producers and me and
Speaker 2: sitting there and I said, no, no, we already have
Speaker 2: our producer, Keith Thomas. He said, oh, you know you're
Speaker 2: big time now, you're in the big league, so you
Speaker 2: got to work with big producers. And so long story short,
Speaker 2: I realized, oh, y'are not asking us, y'all telling them.
Speaker 2: And so I looked at him, happy to be on
Speaker 2: Capitol Records, and I told him, but if we can't
Speaker 2: use our producer, then I will grab my sister's hand
Speaker 2: and we will walk out and y'all have a good day.
Speaker 2: And he said, what, well, you would leave Capital Records
Speaker 2: And I looked at him and I meant this. I said,
Speaker 2: don't get it wrong, glad to be here, but you
Speaker 2: do not hold my future. God holds my future. So
Speaker 2: we will walk out of here. And that man said, well,
Speaker 2: I guess keep producing. I didn't know he was white.
Speaker 2: They didn't know anything about him, but he brought us
Speaker 2: to the party. We have this meeting is because of
Speaker 2: Keith Thomas and the collaboratory chemistry that he and I had.
Speaker 2: And so I'm glad I did it because because of that,
Speaker 2: you have the slew of things that me and I
Speaker 2: says to a company.
Speaker 4: So on that first album, yeah, you pretty much are
Speaker 4: utilizing your siblings as auxiliary voices.
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 4: Is that obligatory if you wanted to work with another
Speaker 4: group of background singers with your family, feel some sort
Speaker 4: of way like do you know we were always now?
Speaker 2: The only thing about us using each other is that
Speaker 2: we were free. Yeah, I was gonna say, and how
Speaker 2: does that work? Three? Why not? Why would I pay CC?
Speaker 2: Why would CC pay me? That made no sense? So
Speaker 2: if you wanted to you and that was just how
Speaker 2: we were, well, not.
Speaker 3: CC, but everybody else. So I mean, did you got
Speaker 3: some other folks in the backgrounds too?
Speaker 2: Right? Oh? Family, that'd be and various other people. So
Speaker 2: if we used other people, which we did, you know
Speaker 2: you had to pay fees and so whenever we wanted to,
Speaker 2: you know, if the budget ran out, Hey, Marvin, how
Speaker 2: you doing this day? I need y'all to set up
Speaker 2: a record, is that to come and help us? And
Speaker 2: to this day, you know I turned sixty, I can't
Speaker 2: believe it. It's two years now, I'll be sixty two.
Speaker 2: And so when I had I always wanted my sixtieth
Speaker 2: birthday in London. So I decided the last minute to
Speaker 2: hear of a concert in London. So I called my
Speaker 2: brother and I said, Hey, you're gonna come to London
Speaker 2: for me? He said, I guess I'm not getting paid.
Speaker 2: I said, why would we start paying each other? Now?
Speaker 4: Forgive my ignorance and asking this because I still feel
Speaker 4: like I'm relatively well adept in my Wining's allergy. Has
Speaker 4: there ever been a collective.
Speaker 3: Twenty three hundred Jackson Street.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a collective Whining's album project? No, No, I only
Speaker 2: had we. We did two Wining Family tours, international and
Speaker 2: national tours, and we had the most fun. It was
Speaker 2: absolutely incredible. But after we came off of those tours,
Speaker 2: I don't never have to see another one a kid.
Speaker 2: And this is the reason. So as the youngest, right boy,
Speaker 2: are you the agitator? No? No, I'm the one that
Speaker 2: does the work. And so I'm creative in the place
Speaker 2: of and I enjoy it in putting this song with
Speaker 2: this song, and this and that and that, and so
Speaker 2: I'm creating the whole thing, given permission to do it,
Speaker 2: and then at the last minute the older brothers wanted
Speaker 2: to come in and say, I ain't doing that song.
Speaker 2: Yes you are, so be back and forth, and you
Speaker 2: told me to put this together, but I didn't tell
Speaker 2: you that song. Well you singing that song? I mean
Speaker 2: up until ladies and gentlemen, please welcome. Who is the
Speaker 2: alpha whining? Who is Dad? When Dad is not there? Well,
Speaker 2: Marvin thinks he's there. Dad was alive. He used to
Speaker 2: tell my mother, I'm your father. I'm not lying. You
Speaker 2: call him up and he'll say the same thing. So
Speaker 2: but he was and still he was the songwriter of
Speaker 2: the Whinings, and we all you know, used to always
Speaker 2: say he's the greatest singer in the Winings family. At
Speaker 2: the same time, he is not the one that does
Speaker 2: the footwork, you know, right, And so I'm that one.
Speaker 2: And then you know, you always meet Okay, he is
Speaker 2: that big brother and little brother, you know, right.
Speaker 3: But BB, you got like nephews and nieces and stuff.
Speaker 3: Now I'm curious if there's a baby Bebe coming up
Speaker 3: up in the family, who now is like, well, Bbe,
Speaker 3: remember you used to be that person but now I
Speaker 3: know my finger is on the pulse and.
Speaker 2: I I wish we had that. Now. We do have
Speaker 2: great writers. H CC's Sun is really a great writer,
Speaker 2: Alvin Jr. And producer. He's produced some things on her album.
Speaker 2: But and in One is one who right. So we
Speaker 2: have some great writers. But these days it's hard. I
Speaker 2: don't know if it's just this generation. I don't want
Speaker 2: to do no work. They just want to walk in
Speaker 2: and just hey, no, it don't work like that. Here's
Speaker 2: the thing though, and I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 3: This spendor defend the people.
Speaker 4: I kind of believe that everything that we've been generationally
Speaker 4: taught our parents, our grandparents, our great grandparents and so
Speaker 4: on and so forth, I now believe that we might
Speaker 4: have to let maybe eighty percent of everything we were
Speaker 4: ever taught.
Speaker 2: Whoa what a lot? I know.
Speaker 4: But here's the thing though, and the number one thing
Speaker 4: that I'm trying to get rid of, even for a
Speaker 4: person that doesn't know me, I have this James Brown
Speaker 4: reput you know, hardest working man, and that's.
Speaker 2: Really my fault.
Speaker 4: It's my fault, like, oh, you're doing movies one day,
Speaker 4: you're doing records the next day, you write a book
Speaker 4: this day. Because I was kind of raised in that
Speaker 4: environment that.
Speaker 3: Like work hard, work hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, work hard, work hard.
Speaker 4: And then the pandemic came and the first time in
Speaker 4: my life, and I don't know if you've had this
Speaker 4: same experience, but the first time in life, for eight months,
Speaker 4: I did nothing, you know that feeling as a workaholic.
Speaker 4: If I'm even asleep past ten thirty a m. I
Speaker 4: feel like the worst person. I hear my grandmom, my
Speaker 4: dad like that sort of thing. So to do that
Speaker 4: for eight months in a row, where you just you
Speaker 4: don't do nothing, and I'm the world's most overachievingest overworker.
Speaker 4: After six months, I was like, wait a minute, let
Speaker 4: me find out.
Speaker 2: The key to life is not whatever we complain about
Speaker 2: the younger generation.
Speaker 4: Right, No, So I'll say I'm now sixty forty, where
Speaker 4: I now agree with the younger generation.
Speaker 3: Smarter, now harder.
Speaker 2: But my approach is this. My answer to that is this,
Speaker 2: This is my philosophy. Okay, two plus two will always
Speaker 2: equal four. Now how you get there? It's you know,
Speaker 2: in this year, twenty years ago and forty years down
Speaker 2: the road, two plus two will always equal four. So
Speaker 2: unless you're Terrence Howard, but I won't even start that. Look,
Speaker 2: I want to get involved in come forward. Plus multiplication
Speaker 2: is always going to go forward. So no, I've always
Speaker 2: believed that I didn't have to follow the path that
Speaker 2: my father followed to be successful. I didn't have to
Speaker 2: follow my brother's pattern to be successful. So but you
Speaker 2: do have to have a dream. You do have to
Speaker 2: have the understanding that you have to work towards that dream.
Speaker 2: Like I would have liked this, and I'll end it
Speaker 2: like this. A friend of mine, a friend named Wren Brown.
Speaker 2: He said, Christians don't want a miracle, they want magic.
Speaker 2: They want to say, oh I want this house. Damn
Speaker 2: that house is there, he said, because a miracle has
Speaker 2: to have your participation, and so a lot of times
Speaker 2: this generation don't want to participate in what's there. They
Speaker 2: just want to sit around and wait for magic. Dude.
Speaker 4: No, wow, Okay, now you made me feel bad because
Speaker 4: here's the thing though, I know that well because again
Speaker 4: because I'm I'm literally taking an active exercise to see. Okay,
Speaker 4: miracle versus magic, and you you praised the perfect with miracles.
Speaker 4: You have to be actively involved and expert in your field.
Speaker 4: You know what you're doing with magic. You do nothing
Speaker 4: and it happens. So here's the thing, though, I'm right
Speaker 4: now the place in my life where.
Speaker 2: Between the Christian side of me versus the metaphysical side
Speaker 2: of me. And you know, a lot of.
Speaker 4: This also has to do with me studying my African ancestry.
Speaker 3: To say, you are like Christian, you better stop well,
Speaker 3: but dude, like at some point.
Speaker 2: You have to start somewhere well and understanding. Look my
Speaker 2: father said, and maybe I answered this way. My father
Speaker 2: used to tell us, y'are not the greatest things in
Speaker 2: the world. Don't you sit around and think you're the
Speaker 2: greatest thing in the world. But you're going to be confident.
Speaker 2: You're going to be the most confident singers in the world. Okay,
Speaker 2: So that's what he said. When I was younger, I
Speaker 2: had to perfect my vocal ability. Like I have a son,
Speaker 2: he was sixteen or seventeen eighteen at the time, and
Speaker 2: he said, Dad, we're gonna do a duet together. I said,
Speaker 2: you and me, Yeah, we have no no, no, no,
Speaker 2: we not you not waking up today and all of
Speaker 2: a sudden you do it with me. And the reason
Speaker 2: is not that it has nothing to do with my
Speaker 2: love towards you. It has nothing to do with your desire,
Speaker 2: even if you have a desire. Yeah, you can't sing?
Speaker 2: Oh wow?
Speaker 4: What time out? Time out? Time out, time out? Are
Speaker 4: you trying to tell me that somewhere on this earth
Speaker 4: there's a as the last name of Whinings.
Speaker 2: There are men know how to sing, There are many? Really,
Speaker 2: what is that? Like my brother, oldest brother, David, he
Speaker 2: can't sing to save his life in our ears. That
Speaker 2: has to be psychological.
Speaker 3: I refuse nobody else in his ear.
Speaker 2: He thinks he can. So when we went out on
Speaker 2: those two runs of the Windings Family or he was
Speaker 2: with us, but the sound people knew. Don't turn his
Speaker 2: mic on monitors or nothing. You're horrible.
Speaker 4: To close my statement only because the the period of
Speaker 4: me finding out by my African ancestry and the and
Speaker 4: the pandemic forced me in a place where the most
Speaker 4: that ever happened in my life out of nowhere happened
Speaker 4: because I sat.
Speaker 2: Around and just stayed silent.
Speaker 4: Yes, and then it happened, of which the conflict of
Speaker 4: me is like, well, are you going to dismiss forty
Speaker 4: years of the insane amount of hours that you studied
Speaker 4: your skill and your practice and all those things. My
Speaker 4: dad had a rule in the house. Like you've heard
Speaker 4: the idiom, practice makes perfect. My dad's idiom was perfect
Speaker 4: practice makes perfect. He was Joe Jackson on steroids. So
Speaker 4: the thing is, I can't dismiss the preparation and the
Speaker 4: over preparation of having a skill right makes you better.
Speaker 4: But I gotta admit that this generation might be on something.
Speaker 4: I'm only three years into this, and trust me as
Speaker 4: an over worker who is on your side of the
Speaker 4: fence with miracles versus magic, I decided to just backslide
Speaker 4: a little bit from miracles and to see.
Speaker 2: Just to see if the magic is in.
Speaker 4: If I do nothing, we'll match make a curred. Well
Speaker 4: well but but but but let me answer that this way,
Speaker 4: because faith is not magic. But faith is something you
Speaker 4: don't see or you can earn truth. Okay, I agree, so,
Speaker 4: but works is important to make faith come to existence.
Speaker 2: All right. So I've always seen myself being what God
Speaker 2: had prepared for me. I didn't see it, but I
Speaker 2: believed it. So one of the things that I've always
Speaker 2: taught my children and the upcoming artists and everything. You
Speaker 2: have to see yourself as successful you have to see
Speaker 2: yourself right now. You have to know your worth right now.
Speaker 2: So again I always go back to my father. I
Speaker 2: mean he really was, but he is to always say,
Speaker 2: before my children leave my house, you're going to know
Speaker 2: who you are. So when you go on to the
Speaker 2: world and they tell you who you are, you won't
Speaker 2: believe it because you already know it. You know. It's
Speaker 2: this generation. What what I enjoy is that they have
Speaker 2: a confidence that we didn't have back then, and they
Speaker 2: have some of the tubes that we didn't have back then.
Speaker 3: Don't forget they got it on our backs.
Speaker 2: Us two still.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and every reason that they have to rest today
Speaker 3: is because of our work. Let's not forget that. Like, yes, baby,
Speaker 3: you can rest today because we worked yesterday, because we
Speaker 3: worked today before that.
Speaker 2: For the word of appreciation of that work.
Speaker 4: Look okay, So yes, gratitude is important, absolutely important.
Speaker 2: I mean because again, you know, some of my heroes
Speaker 2: have passed away this year, and I've gone to their
Speaker 2: celebrations because I had to be there to say thank you,
Speaker 2: said it before they passed away, because they opened doors,
Speaker 2: They did a lot of the knocking down of the
Speaker 2: doors and everything, and so as CEC and I have
Speaker 2: you know. I knew then this door that we're knocking
Speaker 2: down is not just for us, but it's for the
Speaker 2: Kirk Franklin, it's for the Mary Mayor's, it's for all
Speaker 2: the other people that are following us. And they could
Speaker 2: go through the door because they did the work. I'll say,
Speaker 2: that's perfect, perfect. I remember we did. I used to
Speaker 2: do all the and I still do something all the
Speaker 2: music behind the scenes for Oprah Winfrey, right, And so
Speaker 2: we did the Legends ball, and I was over the
Speaker 2: music for the Legends Ball, and so Oprah decided at
Speaker 2: the last minute to put this girl in the lineup.
Speaker 2: And I called her and said, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: This woman is not ready for she had a nice
Speaker 2: she had a nice voice at an actually a wonderful voice.
Speaker 2: She reminded you of Aretha Franklin and her presentation and
Speaker 2: long story short, hey you got the last word. She
Speaker 2: was in the lineup, but I knew was she ready ready?
Speaker 2: And she wasn't ready, not because of the talent she
Speaker 2: had inside of her. She she wasn't ready to stand
Speaker 2: up in front of the people. Uretha Franklin night and
Speaker 2: Barbara Streis saying and all these other people. She started,
Speaker 2: she started taking like the Titanic. And at that moment,
Speaker 2: at that moment, I can't say that I was very merciful.
Speaker 2: You came in saved. So I saw Oprah get up
Speaker 2: and she ran around to the stage where I was,
Speaker 2: and she was and I wouldn't. I wouldn't, and oh,
Speaker 2: I'm telling you the truth, and she's truth. Oprah wanted
Speaker 2: to talk to you. And I look at her waiting,
Speaker 2: coming quickly because this woman is dying. This whole thing
Speaker 2: is gone down. It's hard. And so I went over
Speaker 2: and she said, you gotta do something, and I looked
Speaker 2: at her. I said, uh, oh, you want me to
Speaker 2: do something about the person that you put in the
Speaker 2: program that I told you. Oh, I was enjoying the moment.
Speaker 3: But it was beautiful. But it also but you know,
Speaker 3: the friendship that you have with Oprah in that way
Speaker 3: because she need that truth, She need that honestly, And
Speaker 3: I'm sure yes, and that is I'm sure that's why
Speaker 3: y'all been friends as long. Like, come on, girl, I
Speaker 3: told you.
Speaker 2: We saved the day because to legends, you had to
Speaker 2: have legends. And that was the Hawkins family that tore
Speaker 2: the place down.
Speaker 3: They went after her, after the young lady. They went
Speaker 3: after her.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, that was the group that I had
Speaker 2: lined up, and I had everything else and lined up.
Speaker 2: You just stuck her in and it almost took the
Speaker 2: whole thing down.
Speaker 4: To Oprah's credit. And you gotta you gotta remember that.
Speaker 4: You know, Oprah came to national prominence as that woman
Speaker 4: in the color Purple. We didn't know who Oprah Winfrey was.
Speaker 4: They could have easily given that role to someone of
Speaker 4: Oscar caliber, you know whatever. You know, I can see that,
Speaker 4: and I've seen a few times where Oprah might want
Speaker 4: to highlight someone that's untested Trueton see if you're ready
Speaker 4: for it, and this message, this.
Speaker 2: Event.
Speaker 3: But I repent again, mister Wyne. It's a testament to
Speaker 3: your relationship with Lady Oh that has been led lasted
Speaker 3: this long because at the level she's at, everybody don't
Speaker 3: have that level of honesty with her. And so I
Speaker 3: just think it's beautiful that y'all still have this relationship
Speaker 3: and it works.
Speaker 2: I mean, our relationship goes back to the first six
Speaker 2: months of her show. I was called and I wrote
Speaker 2: a commercial for the show called I Found a Friend
Speaker 2: in Oprah. So our relationship goes way back. Always we
Speaker 2: agree that I had the relationship. We had the relationship
Speaker 2: where we would tell each other the truth no matter what.
Speaker 2: I love that she has been a great friend and
Speaker 2: andce versa, you know.
Speaker 4: But at the same time, no ideas like you still
Speaker 4: better lie to me anyway.
Speaker 3: I am that I'm friend.
Speaker 2: Stop it. But in that, in that that is so funny.
Speaker 2: But in that this is why, this is why she
Speaker 2: wanted you tell the.
Speaker 3: Story this thirty years right here, BB.
Speaker 2: Okay, But but I tell you the truth. One of
Speaker 2: the things that I love more than anything is friendship.
Speaker 2: And if you really have a friend, that friend is
Speaker 2: going to tell you the truth, you know, especially in
Speaker 2: this industry where you're surrounded by people who act like
Speaker 2: and that's quest love supreme thinking no, no, no, but I
Speaker 2: was going to say it.
Speaker 3: So it also shows that I'm guessing that part of
Speaker 3: the result of this friendship is our ability to see.
Speaker 2: In green leaf exactly. And so so the funny So
Speaker 2: so that story is very simple. My niece who was
Speaker 2: who is uh loved acting ever since she was two
Speaker 2: years old. She knew you, and so I got behind
Speaker 2: her in her years, and she was playing the part
Speaker 2: of CC in my musical. And so I had a
Speaker 2: table reading in New York that I had oprahcomm and
Speaker 2: various other people, Sicily Tyson. And then after that I
Speaker 2: get a call from Oprah about green Leaf. She sent
Speaker 2: me the script and she asked me to read it.
Speaker 2: And then she then she said, well, your niece, but
Speaker 2: I know she's doing your play. I would love for
Speaker 2: her to I said, girl, whatever you would love for
Speaker 2: my niece to do, don't worry about my play. Fashion
Speaker 2: was to act. And so she did work and and
Speaker 2: she ended up on the show and excited. There's the
Speaker 2: other things that are happening that me and my nieces
Speaker 2: girl do a movie together, and she's going to play
Speaker 2: my daughter in this movie. So I'm enjoying that moment.
Speaker 3: That I love you name my niece, my baby, my
Speaker 3: niece girl.
Speaker 4: Speaking of Greenleaf, I became really good friends with a
Speaker 4: Merrill on the ship. The other thing that I've I've
Speaker 4: done that's different after the pandemic is making time for
Speaker 4: fun and joy because people are like too serious, you
Speaker 4: were too much, You don't take time out for yourself.
Speaker 4: And so I've started like a series of Game Nights.
Speaker 4: And Merle is also a part of my word old group.
Speaker 4: You know, we we played the New York Times World
Speaker 4: and there's eight of us and you know it's fastary
Speaker 4: of people are the actors, actresses, news people and literally
Speaker 4: I'm keeping an eye on our scoreboard.
Speaker 2: And she.
Speaker 4: Meryl is an overchiever in gaming right now. So I'm
Speaker 4: giving I'm giving a shout out tomorrow.
Speaker 2: So if you play scrabble and you have feelings, don't
Speaker 2: play with any of my family members. Wow. Oh we
Speaker 2: come at you. Oh, we come at you with sarcasm.
Speaker 2: You put a word up there that we're not familiar
Speaker 2: with and we know it is not a word. Now
Speaker 2: say that you lose that. We start creating sentences with
Speaker 2: that word and it it breaks your heart. So, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: you don't want to not scrabble?
Speaker 3: Is at a wine in this game night? Is there profanity?
Speaker 2: No? And and and because it was just not in us,
Speaker 2: we weren't raised. So I was just going to ask,
Speaker 2: are you guys allowed to argue? Oh? Yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: but if we said when we were coming up words,
Speaker 2: shut up, that would just stir my mom and dad,
Speaker 2: like don't you say so? But we have become very
Speaker 2: good friends with Whitney, right, and she became like family.
Speaker 2: And one day CC and I were over and she
Speaker 2: was she was, you know, we're talking about the first major.
Speaker 2: But she said, I got to ask you all a question.
Speaker 2: It was like what she said, I've been wanting to
Speaker 2: ask all this all the times. Okay, what she said,
Speaker 2: y'all don't curse? Why don't y'all.
Speaker 3: What do y'all do? What do you put in the
Speaker 3: place of them words?
Speaker 2: It was so funny because it never dawned on us
Speaker 2: that you're checking out every word there was.
Speaker 3: Is she feeling like some type of way?
Speaker 2: But every now and then and then she stopped doing
Speaker 2: all together. And my answer was, Whitney, it's not in me.
Speaker 2: It's just not in me. There's more vocabulary. You will
Speaker 2: know how I feel by the words I say, but
Speaker 2: they won't be loaded with words that maybe you're familiar
Speaker 2: with and and and so it's important, I think, more
Speaker 2: than than ever, that we teach our children how to
Speaker 2: stand up, how to argue, how to get it. You know,
Speaker 2: anger and hatred does not benefit anger and hatred. You know,
Speaker 2: I can say some words to you because the scriptures
Speaker 2: even tell us that let your words be filled with
Speaker 2: honey and sweetness. You can kill them with honey and
Speaker 2: sweetness more so than the same hatred that they use.
Speaker 2: So I was and I've always been a fan of that.
Speaker 2: So but that's for another two.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I wanted to ask you because well, one,
Speaker 4: I wanted to know what compelled you to write a
Speaker 4: book about Whitney, but just basically talk about the friendship
Speaker 4: and the fact that I think since your second album,
Speaker 4: she's basically she's basically the auxiliary Wine and his family member.
Speaker 2: Oh, incredible relationship and it just happened. It just happened.
Speaker 2: There was nothing we did, nothing she did that caused
Speaker 2: us just to be like that. And I just I
Speaker 2: remember her saying, for the rest of my life, you
Speaker 2: guys have to be in my life and no major,
Speaker 2: no major choices I will make without sitting with you all,
Speaker 2: And was like, Okay, you know.
Speaker 3: That last part was heavy.
Speaker 4: But is the bonding based on vocal skill or is
Speaker 4: it just based on the fact that you guys grew up.
Speaker 2: There's elements there. But when I say our hearts just
Speaker 2: was knitted because I understand she met my brothers before
Speaker 2: she met me. In cc okay. I met her. I
Speaker 2: met her because she was on tour opening for Jeffrey
Speaker 2: Osbourne and she singing one of my brother's songs tomorrow
Speaker 2: in her set. I remember her walking out from the
Speaker 2: back and I said to her, I don't know what
Speaker 2: church you came out of. I don't know your last name.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know your middle name, but I
Speaker 2: know you come from some church singing the way you sing.
Speaker 2: And she smiled and said New Hope Baptist, and so
Speaker 2: we laughed and just that moment, and so I can
Speaker 2: go through the years. But one of the things that
Speaker 2: always sticks out with her is I run every morning,
Speaker 2: right Monday through Saturday, and I run my path and
Speaker 2: asked her, I go buy this home. And every time
Speaker 2: I see it, I smile, sometimes I cry. It's because
Speaker 2: it was my first home and I saved the money.
Speaker 2: And then because of race and various other risks that
Speaker 2: they see in the color student, they decided you need
Speaker 2: it seventy five percent to put on the house instead
Speaker 2: of fifty, which was high from the get go. And
Speaker 2: so just like any other time, Hey what's going on? Hey,
Speaker 2: I think what was wrong? How about the house? Well, yeah,
Speaker 2: they you know, threw a curve and she's like, what
Speaker 2: it was like, don't worry about it, No, tell me,
Speaker 2: And so I told her what was going on with
Speaker 2: D D D this thing I knew. Whitney flew in
Speaker 2: unannounced and at that point me and my wife, we
Speaker 2: stayed in a one bedroom apartment. So she decided she
Speaker 2: going to spend the night, slept on the couch and
Speaker 2: I remember walking out now and she's Whitney Houston. He's
Speaker 2: Whitney Houston. The number one song is I Want to
Speaker 2: Dance with Somebody. Wow.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: She's sleeping on the couch and I'm trying to sneak
Speaker 2: out of the door because you opened the door. The
Speaker 2: sun hits the couch and so I'm sneaking out. The
Speaker 2: sun hits and she wakes up. Her hair is going
Speaker 2: every witch away and I started laughing and I said, boy,
Speaker 2: if they can see you now to night. Ah. She said,
Speaker 2: shut up, where where are you going? I said, Whitney,
Speaker 2: I just got to go on her air and I'll
Speaker 2: be right back, okay, because we got to go see
Speaker 2: that house. I was like, girls, shut up, and so
Speaker 2: I went came back. We went to the house, going
Speaker 2: through this house because every room Whitney would say, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: now that that looks like my brother's veryl oh that's
Speaker 2: like my brother's bathroom. Oh that looks like my brother's
Speaker 2: a laundry room. It was like, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 2: And so the last place we stepped on the porch
Speaker 2: and she said, oh yeah, this looks like my brother's porch.
Speaker 2: And then she hands me an envelope and I said
Speaker 2: what is it? And she said, she opened you she'd
Speaker 2: opened it up. I said, what, I opened it up,
Speaker 2: and it is the fifty thousand dollars that I needed
Speaker 2: to buy my home. Oh man, And she said, I
Speaker 2: told you this was my brother's house. And I was like,
Speaker 2: oh man, witn'ey? I mean I got to pay. She said,
Speaker 2: don't you worry about Okay, let's go. So so when
Speaker 2: I run by the house now, I paid her back right,
Speaker 2: And she called me because I paid it to her
Speaker 2: accountants and she said, they just called me. Tell me
Speaker 2: you paid me. And I said, yeah, I told you
Speaker 2: I was gonna pay you. She said, a lot of
Speaker 2: people say to me, but and I you know, I
Speaker 2: sold the house years ago, but every time I run
Speaker 2: by that house, I can't help but think of her,
Speaker 2: oh man, help her, think of her love of after
Speaker 2: of every experience that we had together, which lives inside
Speaker 2: of me. And uh, she was just she was family.
Speaker 2: One of the greatest, uh friendships I can even imagine.
Speaker 3: So that must be the answer to a mere's question
Speaker 3: of why the book, because were these stories just about
Speaker 3: to explode inside of you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? But the stories of what people didn't know, you know,
Speaker 2: That's what I mean. The only thing, Yeah, the only
Speaker 2: thing they talked about was the problem she had with
Speaker 2: you and this and that, and it's just like that
Speaker 2: is that is not her? Let me tell you about
Speaker 2: the ninety five percent of her that y'all don't know.
Speaker 2: And so I felt a need and it was therapy
Speaker 2: for me, It really was, because that was a hard moment.
Speaker 2: I got a call that night from her mom and
Speaker 2: when she called me, she said, I wanted you to
Speaker 2: know what my daughter meant to you and what you
Speaker 2: meant to my daughter. And I had to pull over
Speaker 2: and like a down broken side of me and I
Speaker 2: just wept because not only is the news hard enough,
Speaker 2: but Sissy, you checking on me. I need to be
Speaker 2: checking on you. But it was we were family. We
Speaker 2: really were family and she is the best.
Speaker 3: Thank you for the book and continuing to tell these
Speaker 3: stories everywhere, Like thank you.
Speaker 4: Let me ask because there's something I always wanted to know,
Speaker 4: especially when it comes to celebrations, and you mentioned it
Speaker 4: earlier and yeah, I watched whitney service when it was
Speaker 4: on CNN. Oftentimes the world will lean on the anointed
Speaker 4: gospel singers to really come through in one of the
Speaker 4: most lowest, saddest moments in a person's journey, which is there.
Speaker 4: I believe it's a transitioning, not a death, but it's
Speaker 4: very sad for the people left behind. And Whitney's celebration
Speaker 4: was one of those moments where a lot of joyful
Speaker 4: noise gospel singing.
Speaker 2: Needed to be utilized to help celebrate her.
Speaker 4: But I know that it has to sting extra hard
Speaker 4: where you yourself, even if you're in a mournful state
Speaker 4: for someone that you knew, Like it's one thing if
Speaker 4: you're just called, hey, can you sing at this funeral?
Speaker 2: You know his brother passed away, and da da da da.
Speaker 4: Da, But could you describe to me because I wanted
Speaker 4: to know it was the most difficult thing you could do.
Speaker 4: How did how did you channel or pull into you
Speaker 4: to step to the plate, and really.
Speaker 2: Just didn't want to do it, didn't know what and
Speaker 2: for me, not even for my sister, not for my brothers.
Speaker 2: I'm not good at singing, at which I felt apart
Speaker 2: at her so vibration before I started singing, even before
Speaker 2: and after, because this person means a lot to me, right,
Speaker 2: So the only thing other than God's help that gave
Speaker 2: me the stremp to do it is that I heard
Speaker 2: what she would say. So when I got up that
Speaker 2: morning and I started getting dressed, I started crying. And
Speaker 2: then I remember sitting standing up and I could hear
Speaker 2: her say, now, don't you mess up. And that's what
Speaker 2: she would say while we were alive. You know each other.
Speaker 2: So I used to say to her because she would
Speaker 2: call sometimes say her voice was gone, and I would say, oh,
Speaker 2: I wish I was there because I know now you're
Speaker 2: gonna really sing, because you got to take different avenues
Speaker 2: to do what you do. I remember in New York
Speaker 2: when she's sung at Radio City Music Hall for Clive Davis.
Speaker 2: It was something she had this burgundy dress on. She
Speaker 2: was so hor and I was excited because I knew Oh,
Speaker 2: she's going, she's gonna really give it to y'all because
Speaker 2: she has to. So I heard in my head, don't
Speaker 2: you mess up. You better look good and you better now,
Speaker 2: you know, because that's what she said in life, right,
Speaker 2: And so that is what I leaned on, and I
Speaker 2: focused in on those moments, not that moment. You know,
Speaker 2: I had enough time to focus on that moment when
Speaker 2: I sat down and could just you know, weep.
Speaker 4: I always wanted to ask you that question, like what
Speaker 4: is it to reach to use your gift when you
Speaker 4: might not necessarily be in the mind state to deliver,
Speaker 4: but you know you have to not only deliver for
Speaker 4: the church, but also you know the world's watching you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and understand not only deliver for them, but deliver
Speaker 2: for me. So before my songs touch anyone else's heart,
Speaker 2: it touches his mind because it comes from my heart.
Speaker 2: It comes from my experience, It comes from the down times,
Speaker 2: it comes from the victories and the defeats. And so
Speaker 2: I sing what I believe. No matter what you know,
Speaker 2: whether it's it'sy bitsy spider kind of spout, it means
Speaker 2: a different thing to me. Gotcha.
Speaker 4: Hey, Speaking of crowds and performing every night. Can you
Speaker 4: talk about your experience and playing on harpo in the
Speaker 4: Color Purple?
Speaker 3: My theater experienced Baby Lake.
Speaker 2: What's that like for you? Oh? That was a double ed'swore,
Speaker 2: you know. So I got a phone call from a
Speaker 2: guy named Scott that told me he wanted me to
Speaker 2: come in and write some songs for a new music
Speaker 2: that was going to happen called The Color Purple. So
Speaker 2: I went in to New York and then I remember,
Speaker 2: as time was going on, I called Oprah and said, hey,
Speaker 2: they're making a musical and her words was that's stupid.
Speaker 3: Fast forward'st forward best forward.
Speaker 2: Forward, not too fast. But as I fast forward and
Speaker 2: was walking down the street, I picked up a mag
Speaker 2: You know, this is when we had newspapers in the USA.
Speaker 2: To day there was the announcement of Color Purple coming
Speaker 2: in the Broadway and my name was nowhere on the
Speaker 2: credits and the guy wouldn't call me back. I mean,
Speaker 2: broke my little heart. But what you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: and so hey, and then next thing I know, Oprah
Speaker 2: is one of the producers and this and that. I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, okay, well you know that's it's hilarious.
Speaker 2: What that's a lot. And then then I get to
Speaker 2: get a phone call. Opening night is about to happen,
Speaker 2: and Oprah and Gail calls me and says, you got
Speaker 2: to be at the opening. I said, I don't have
Speaker 2: to do nothing of God and breathe, y'all know what happened.
Speaker 2: I'm not coming. And then something in me said go
Speaker 2: And I remember going hoping hear me right, hoping that
Speaker 2: it was a mess.
Speaker 3: You don't gonna tell us who was playing Harple at
Speaker 3: the time? Are you?
Speaker 2: It was like it was the hope I forgive the original? Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is the original. I'm like, So I'm sitting there
Speaker 2: saying that was a good song. Oh man, that was
Speaker 2: pretty good.
Speaker 4: Don't you hate giving in?
Speaker 2: So at the end, I remember so I found Scott
Speaker 2: and I went up to him and I said I
Speaker 2: wanted just to tell you congratulations, sir, and he looked
Speaker 2: like he said deer in hairlights and he was like, oh, thanks, Phoebe.
Speaker 2: I said, you know, much success to you. So bounce back.
Speaker 2: Two years later, for a year or so, I get
Speaker 2: a phone call saying they want you to come in
Speaker 2: and Gae will call me. Just just be out there.
Speaker 2: They want you to be harpo. Mister was the position.
Speaker 2: I said, girl, please, I ain't got time for that.
Speaker 2: You don't remember I do, and so they'll say do
Speaker 2: just for open, you know. I was like, y'all, you
Speaker 2: know what, I'm gonna come in. And when I got there,
Speaker 2: they switched it and wanted me to do Harpo. I
Speaker 2: bumped into Shaka Khan. I was like, why are you here?
Speaker 2: She said, well, I'm They asked me to do Sophia
Speaker 2: because they asked. I said, that's not what they asked.
Speaker 2: So this this tricks just going on, and you know,
Speaker 2: tricks are for kids or grown ups. So we did
Speaker 2: the thing and I didn't care if I got the
Speaker 2: point the party. Now that evening, I got a phone
Speaker 2: call from Scott and he said, we loved you. And
Speaker 2: before we get another thing out, I said, Scott, why
Speaker 2: don't we start with you apologizing what happened two years ago? Dang,
Speaker 2: you apologized, and right after you apologized, I said, I'll
Speaker 2: do the part, but let's not sit up here and
Speaker 2: act like.
Speaker 3: I love you.
Speaker 1: Be back.
Speaker 3: I love the truth or yeah two plus suit not
Speaker 3: equal four.
Speaker 2: It, you know, come on. So I enjoyed it I said,
Speaker 2: this is probably gonna be my last time, because I
Speaker 2: did Broadway in nineteen eighty six on a show called
Speaker 2: Don't Get God Started, and it's just hard work and
Speaker 2: your life winds the line life is gone, you can't.
Speaker 2: I remember walking down the street seeing, oh, the Queen
Speaker 2: is coming to to to Radio City. I'm gonna go there,
Speaker 2: and some saying, no, you ain't. You're gonna be on stage.
Speaker 2: You gotta work. Yeah, so time it was one. I
Speaker 2: don't know if I did anything after that, but it
Speaker 2: is something I'm excited to be on the other side
Speaker 2: of and giving jobs to so many wonderful, talented people
Speaker 2: that are out there. So but yeah, you know it was.
Speaker 2: It was great. Thank you.
Speaker 4: I have two more questions than we could wrap up,
Speaker 4: and I do have to know because pivots are a
Speaker 4: big part of your story. What was the deciding factor
Speaker 4: that you go solo after having sung with your sister
Speaker 4: for so long? Like, how hard was the transition and
Speaker 4: not being BB and CC wining?
Speaker 2: Not hard at all. You're a BANDI ripper, Okay, you're
Speaker 2: not sentimental. I never heard before. Let's let's go think
Speaker 2: that I'm gonna use that. No, because this was planned
Speaker 2: in my mind from this first album. So from first
Speaker 2: album to the end, there's always been a solo on
Speaker 2: the duet album for CC and for me, because I
Speaker 2: knew we were going to do solos, and so the
Speaker 2: record company would be angry and I was like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: Inside I knew, and when that day happened, we had
Speaker 2: something to build. Each of us had something to build upon.
Speaker 3: Your look catalog and some songs you had already done solo.
Speaker 2: And so when that day came, I said, CC, ladies, first,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go somewhere and rest my brain. Hmmm, do
Speaker 2: other things because it would have been crazy for us
Speaker 2: to try to do it at the same time, because
Speaker 2: we would be fighting for the same audience. So I
Speaker 2: went away. For years, some people thought I had passed away.
Speaker 2: We didn't.
Speaker 4: You tried your hand in acting because you're in the
Speaker 4: Manturian Candidate, even though it's a cameo.
Speaker 2: Yes, I did that, not trying to That was again
Speaker 2: when when doors opened, I've learned to walk through. But
Speaker 2: you know, Denzel directed my first video. It was his
Speaker 2: directorial in Harm's way. Vinzel did that and at the
Speaker 2: end of the video didn't connected. Oh yeah, and doors.
Speaker 2: I love interdience.
Speaker 3: I loved That's what that is, that's love.
Speaker 2: So so he directed that and at the end of
Speaker 2: the thing he said, I'm gonna tell you one thing.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, what did I do? What did
Speaker 2: I do? And he said, you got some acting shops.
Speaker 2: You should act? And I said, well, well, Denzel's telling
Speaker 2: me I can act. I said, you ain't got to
Speaker 2: even worry about coming out of this year because I
Speaker 2: ain't gonna let it in this year. You're Dizel And
Speaker 2: he said, I'm just telling you. And ten years down
Speaker 2: the road, I'm in mancheering candidate, not because of Denzel
Speaker 2: but because of the director meeting me at a birthday
Speaker 2: celebration and he says, you're gonna be in my next movie.
Speaker 2: You know. It's like, okay, I guess you're a director.
Speaker 2: And then here I am finding out this man's name
Speaker 2: was Jonathan Demi. J oh my god, I knew it.
Speaker 2: I knew it was Jonathan. So I'm at this meeting
Speaker 2: with a friend and I picked up the Variety of
Speaker 2: magazine and I was like, this is the name of
Speaker 2: the movie that these people try to give me here,
Speaker 2: and he said, what's the guy's name, I said, Jonathan
Speaker 2: something he said Jonathan Demi bebey. I said, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: that man's name. And so that's how that happened. Having
Speaker 2: that experience, Jonathan calls me and says, you gotta do
Speaker 2: more movies. It's like, what is wrong with y'all?
Speaker 3: So then what you ain't? What's that with that though?
Speaker 2: So so hey, I just did my first TV series
Speaker 2: premiere June the second called uh Minor Business with Lumbus Short.
Speaker 2: I didn't even know who he was. And then I
Speaker 2: was from from a Scandal Pendo Yes the cast and
Speaker 2: it bounced TV and it was the most previous in history.
Speaker 2: They're history over two million households. So I'm on that.
Speaker 2: My name is Henry and that is doing well. And
Speaker 2: so the fear, let's just say that, the fear of
Speaker 2: stepping into that, you know, part of my my world
Speaker 2: is starting to dissipate. And but you said something earlier
Speaker 2: that that is important to me. If I'm not having fun,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do it. Yeah, you know, so
Speaker 2: this new song, I'm having fun doing that again because
Speaker 2: I have behind the scenes, so Father and Heaven right now,
Speaker 2: I went overseas and four concerts in South Africa and
Speaker 2: it just was it woke up the sleeping Bear. Did
Speaker 2: you miss it? I didn't miss it because I really
Speaker 2: truly don't. I'm allergic to the word tour. I get
Speaker 2: is what is the wordst thing about touring? Travel, travel
Speaker 2: and dealing with children, And that's what I call the
Speaker 2: band and everybody else they're children. You still have to
Speaker 2: keep the children in line. You have to do, you know,
Speaker 2: So that's the hard part. Way.
Speaker 4: And when you mean children, are you referring to musicians
Speaker 4: you overplay?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yes, as if they came to see you, they.
Speaker 3: Still do that to you. Oh, I just they would
Speaker 3: be disciplined enough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am. I am the last Mohican. I'm world
Speaker 2: famous for doing nothing. I'm world famous for doing nothing
Speaker 2: because I was.
Speaker 4: Like, I am a metronome and that's that's how I
Speaker 4: paid the bills.
Speaker 3: Wait, Amir, you will be mad if we don't ask
Speaker 3: this question before we were in this interview, because listen,
Speaker 3: two weeks ago, I was hosting a Q and A
Speaker 3: at Capitol Jazz Fest and Louis Bega was the man
Speaker 3: on the stage. And every New Year everybody wanted to
Speaker 3: talk about BB and this this relationship that you had
Speaker 3: with Louis Bega and this collaboration that you've been doing
Speaker 3: for years. Can you just I would like you to
Speaker 3: just tell me about your first meeting with Louis and
Speaker 3: with the magic that was.
Speaker 2: It's to me, I forget how we met. He had
Speaker 2: mixed the song thank You, and Luther was like a
Speaker 2: brother to me, and so I helped him get Luther
Speaker 2: to come on and do a thing on his seat
Speaker 2: as well. But Luther did a lot of the background
Speaker 2: for me and Cec. I mean, I can name you
Speaker 2: five or six songs that Luka I love you answer
Speaker 2: that question, Ben, I mean searching for Love? So searching
Speaker 2: for love, Yeah, the one found search in Fad.
Speaker 3: He was the background vocal king.
Speaker 2: That's Luther, his arrangement and him and his singer. He's
Speaker 2: a whole another I have to come back. So so
Speaker 2: Louis Vega, we did the song. The song started really
Speaker 2: generating a lot in the house. In the house, and
Speaker 2: so he calls me. I think this is where this
Speaker 2: is when Louie and I became friends. He called me
Speaker 2: and said, BB can you please come and sing it
Speaker 2: live at the shelter. Now I don't even know what
Speaker 2: the shelter was. Wow, boy, yeah, I can't this story,
Speaker 2: I said, Louis, yes, so I said yes because I
Speaker 2: had no idea what was going on. Your team did it.
Speaker 2: So my singers came with me, and when we got
Speaker 2: to New York, Louis calls and said, hey, man, I'm excited,
Speaker 2: so we'll pick you up like at four. Now when
Speaker 2: I am chriss, I stumbled when I even talk about
Speaker 2: it now years ago. So it was like one PM.
Speaker 2: I said, you're gonna pick us up? Oh, in three hours? Okay,
Speaker 2: we'll be ready. He said, no, no, no, people pick you
Speaker 2: up at four am. I said, I said, whoa pick four?
Speaker 2: You picking us up at four?
Speaker 3: He?
Speaker 2: What? What time?
Speaker 3: We go on?
Speaker 2: Forty five and five? I said, what what are you
Speaker 2: talking about? What boy, how are you talking about? Say?
Speaker 2: I've never sung at four point thirty and what do
Speaker 2: you talk? People are up? Quite seriously, it was like
Speaker 2: I'm thrown when we went to that place. First of all,
Speaker 2: we trying to stay up was the hardest thing in
Speaker 2: my life. So he picks us up. We go to
Speaker 2: the shelter. I've never seen so many people in my life,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, are these vampires and then we sang
Speaker 2: the song. I'm telling you, I've seen audiences that is
Speaker 2: waiting to hear their song. Yes, ever saw an audience
Speaker 2: like this before. They knew every lick, every line, they
Speaker 2: knew every pause, and they were celebrating like I never
Speaker 2: saw people celebrate like this before. It blew my mind.
Speaker 2: And so after that, Louis was like, Phoebe, you gotta
Speaker 2: go with me. I said, no, no, no, be me
Speaker 2: one and done. You're gonna give you? I said, because
Speaker 2: I love you, I'm gonna give you three more. So
Speaker 2: I remember I did one in Miami, I did one
Speaker 2: in London. And then so he calls me. I said, Louis,
Speaker 2: don't you call me. But when I say, I have
Speaker 2: a love for him and his talent and and and
Speaker 2: all of them, that's my brother.
Speaker 3: Those records and y'all have changed, like y'all have changed
Speaker 3: in house and gospel at the second and now his
Speaker 3: other records with the Clark Sisters and of Your Brothers
Speaker 3: and now the Brell song the Joy Join. I'm like,
Speaker 3: this is just the baby of like with y'all. You
Speaker 3: know what.
Speaker 4: To me, it's only right only because it's historically speaking
Speaker 4: I mean, you're from Detroit, and the world doesn't know.
Speaker 4: Like I know, the world thinks like Motown, there's great
Speaker 4: jazz that comes out of Detroit, but the world really
Speaker 4: doesn't know that the role that Detroit has played in
Speaker 4: electronic music. And there's this whole you know, Chicago versus
Speaker 4: Detroit thing. But to me, it makes all the sense
Speaker 4: in the world that this pairing happened in the fact
Speaker 4: that you did it in the.
Speaker 2: Second best nightclub in world history.
Speaker 4: Of course, you know, to the Shelter will even say
Speaker 4: that their modus operandi was sort of that of what
Speaker 4: Paradise Garage represented in the early eighties. But to me,
Speaker 4: gospel flavored house music is one of the most spiritual
Speaker 4: experiences that one could watch it.
Speaker 3: So spirit yes, amir, it is in your buy. It
Speaker 3: does something to your insides.
Speaker 4: Well, because you gotta make a joyful noise and you
Speaker 4: also have to move, and the African people we move.
Speaker 2: And that's that's the thing. So I did the picnic
Speaker 2: loyal call and say, uh, bbe, it's not for me.
Speaker 2: It's like who is it? Before you know? Yeah, they
Speaker 2: call him to get me, And I was like, Louis
Speaker 2: who you stop calling me. So I did the picnic
Speaker 2: in Chicago.
Speaker 4: It was Oh, that's important, it's important.
Speaker 2: It's important. All my stars that it was unbelievable. I'm serious.
Speaker 2: When the when the music start, it's just it goes through.
Speaker 2: There's such an appreciation for their music that they have
Speaker 2: that I don't think any other genre has.
Speaker 3: I think that's true.
Speaker 2: I learn that.
Speaker 4: I learned that I still maintain that gospel music belongs
Speaker 4: in the clubs.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry everywhere I am. I believe it songs everywhere,
Speaker 2: and I you know, so as a songwriter you learn
Speaker 2: over the years. You learn if you've written something that's mediocre,
Speaker 2: you've readen something like that, Oh this so this song
Speaker 2: now that's out the word scared is not the thing.
Speaker 2: But I anticipate where it's going to go. I think
Speaker 2: it has the legs to go everywhere that the other
Speaker 2: songs that I've written that's crossed lines will do. And
Speaker 2: so I'm excited about it makes sense, Yeah, and so
Speaker 2: it makes so. You know, I'm in a great space.
Speaker 2: But again it's not just for me. I grow in
Speaker 2: these spaces, but I know it's also for some that
Speaker 2: are coming through this way as well. That's exemplary.
Speaker 4: Wait, I guess it's one important question I do have
Speaker 4: to ask you, and this kind of ties into the
Speaker 4: whole proud family thing.
Speaker 2: Is BB your birth name? Thank you with me? Thank you?
Speaker 2: My given name is Benjamin. My CC's given name is Priscilla.
Speaker 2: Wasn't for Jim Baker again Jim and Tammy Fay Baker.
Speaker 2: So no one knew our nickname other than the people
Speaker 2: you know in my household I'm a dad and all them.
Speaker 2: And then people at my church they called us BB
Speaker 2: and CC, but at school was Benjamin. And so after
Speaker 2: some of the success, remember going back to Mumford High
Speaker 2: for our ten year school reunion and walked in and
Speaker 2: the people who only knew us by Benjamin, they looked
Speaker 2: over and said, oh, hey, Phoebe. I was like, pep,
Speaker 2: you don't know me as Pobe. So if you want
Speaker 2: to stop me in my tracks, you call me Benjamin exactly,
Speaker 2: stopping my.
Speaker 4: Even worse as fans call you Benjamin, and then you're
Speaker 4: like no, right, Like some people will say to me, hey,
Speaker 4: a mirror, and then my mind's like first grade, second grade,
Speaker 4: third grade, fourth grade. They're like, man, I'm just depend
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, go for that well, brother BB, I
Speaker 4: want to thank you for this conversation, Uh just amazing.
Speaker 2: Thank you for spending with like and myself, and.
Speaker 3: Thank you Sarrid and Alita, thank you, yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you so much.
Speaker 4: And I hope our listeners out there enjoyed this particular episode.
Speaker 2: I know I did.
Speaker 4: And on behalf of Sugar Steve and Pon Tigolo and
Speaker 4: Unpaid Bill and like yeah myself this Quest Love Supreme
Speaker 4: and thank you once again and we'll see you on
Speaker 4: in the next program.
Speaker 2: Thank you listening to Quest Love Supreme.
Speaker 6: This podcast is hosted by Amir Wees, Love Thompson, Big
Speaker 6: Boss Man, Like Saint Clair Black Black Myself, Fontigelo, Fonte Covid, Sugar,
Speaker 6: Steve Mandel and Unpaid Bill Sherman. The executive producers are
Speaker 6: a Mere Quest Love Thompson, Sean g and the Unbothered
Speaker 6: Brian Calhoun. Produced by Brittany Benjamin, my Dog Cousin, Jake Payne,
Speaker 6: My Motherfucking Man and Like he Is Saint Clairs My
Speaker 6: work Wife, edited by Alex Conroy, Produced for iHeart by
Speaker 6: Noel Brown.
Speaker 1: Us Up Supreme is a production of Myheart Radio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
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