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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media, Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did

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Speaker 1: Cool Stuff. You're a weekly reminder that when people do

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Speaker 1: bad things, there's people around trying to do good things.

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Speaker 1: And one of the people who I think is often

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Speaker 1: trying to do good things is Samantha McVeigh. Hi.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that was such a nice introduction. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: You might know Samantha from stuff Mom never told you,

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Speaker 1: and you might know Samantha from a lot of episodes

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Speaker 1: of this very show, including some of the first ones.

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Speaker 1: I actually the Jane one is so burned into my

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Speaker 1: brain as like one of the foundational recordings, and like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this show is going to be fun and good. It

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Speaker 1: was like that recording. But so I actually don't remember

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Speaker 1: each other, but even on.

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Speaker 2: Like four rep Yeah, so one of them was an

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Speaker 2: Asian one. And you told me after the fact that

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Speaker 2: you were like, I hotly.

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Speaker 1: Just because yeah, I overthink this shit, which.

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Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, because they were about their

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Speaker 2: having their own village for those who were I think

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Speaker 2: my polar and schosophenic or any time.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah remember in Japan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was like, oh, I thought you knew

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Speaker 2: I was a social worker, and that's what my Schupter

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Speaker 2: was so it was a beautiful culmination that there's been

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie, I can't remember because I never've

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Speaker 2: been on a few more.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, But anyway, all tho, those are good.

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Speaker 1: I've actually met people who by listening to those, have

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Speaker 1: like gotten really involved in social work.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'd love when good social work stuff actually happens

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Speaker 2: when you get plans, because they're so much bad, especially

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Speaker 2: in the US. The way that it's set up is minimal,

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Speaker 2: and obviously the government today is making even worse. We're

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Speaker 2: kind of getting into that. Actually. Yeah, but when I

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Speaker 2: see a good program, which oftentimes is not in the US,

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Speaker 2: it makes me envious and really excited to see things.

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Speaker 2: I will say, have you seen I know this is

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Speaker 2: very far off script Christian Bales initiative that he's doing

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Speaker 2: believe in California, No, I don't think so. He is

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Speaker 2: investing millions of dollars to create his own community, okay,

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Speaker 2: set up for un housed people.

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Speaker 1: I believe this could go either really bad or really

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Speaker 1: good exactly, but I trust you, so I want to

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Speaker 1: hear about it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know, because it's all new.

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Speaker 2: I've only seen the headlegs on it, and that was

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Speaker 2: my exact thought, macpay. I was like, that could be great,

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Speaker 2: that could be really bad. Yeah, I will tell you,

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Speaker 2: as a person who's been in like especially like working

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Speaker 2: with teens and working with runaway teens and those types

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Speaker 2: of communities because of their home life, we oftentimes talk

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Speaker 2: about our dream of having millions of dollars and creating

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Speaker 2: our own community that is sustaining, that also has social

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Speaker 2: workers that live within the buildings, that get enough pay

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Speaker 2: that helps provide essentially healthcare within like all of those things.

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Speaker 2: If that could be in place, what that can look like.

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Speaker 2: And also one of the biggest conversations is allowing for mistakes.

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Speaker 2: When I say mistakes, those who make choices that they

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Speaker 2: feel like our survival mode choices and oftentimes, yeah, when

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Speaker 2: we have these programs, they do not allow for that.

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Speaker 2: And I get it because you don't have the resources

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Speaker 2: to handle that. A lot of big conversations, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: we will see what his plans are for when things

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Speaker 2: do fall apart. Because there's always bad players, there's always

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Speaker 2: mistakes made, there's always survival most or trauma responses that

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Speaker 2: never truly go away. So I don't know, but it

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Speaker 2: does sound like something that most of us social workers

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Speaker 2: who have been in that field would love to do.

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Speaker 2: Is according to who he brings in.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense. I'm thinking about one of my friends once,

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Speaker 1: a social worker in a southern city, who is like,

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Speaker 1: trying to buy a million dollar empty hotel, Yeah, for

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Speaker 1: this purpose, and what's trying to do it? And not

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Speaker 1: like I personally going to do this thing. They were like,

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Speaker 1: I work with this organization, We're doing this thing. And

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Speaker 1: in the end they wouldn't sell to them even if

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Speaker 1: they were to do it, because the people who are

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Speaker 1: selling it were like, no, we don't want sketchy people

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Speaker 1: here or whatever. I think.

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Speaker 2: But oh, I have to correct myself. It's for foster siblings.

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Speaker 2: It's for foster kids who could be right, That's how

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Speaker 2: I was. Okay, So, because I will tell you as

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Speaker 2: a person who has been in the system, have worked

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Speaker 2: with the Department of Family Children's Services, foster care is

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Speaker 2: one of the most corrupt. Foster care is one of

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Speaker 2: the least funded. Yeah, foster care is probably one of

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Speaker 2: the worst setups, especially when it comes to governmental ways

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Speaker 2: that it really is almost impossible for families to remain together,

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Speaker 2: like it's set up to fail. That's a whole different conversation.

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Speaker 1: No, but actually that's the kind of thing that, like

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Speaker 1: some other time, if you have examples of people doing that, well,

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Speaker 1: I would love to cover that kind of stuff because

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Speaker 1: I love social work done right. That's like one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite genres of cool.

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Speaker 2: People when it's done right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like interesting because like I remember when

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Speaker 1: we did that. I think it was the beginning the

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Speaker 1: battlehel episodes, like Oh, I'm to tell you about this thing,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, I hope that did.

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Speaker 2: Right, you know, because there's so much corrosion within those systems.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know much about Christian Bell. He's not

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Speaker 2: my favorite actor. I don't know if there's a movie

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Speaker 2: that I've seen that I'm like, he's amazing.

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Speaker 1: I knew he was an actor. That was all I knew.

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Speaker 2: Used to be a Batman. Okay, yeah, see Batman. Okay,

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Speaker 2: there you go, Oh Batman.

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Speaker 1: He's no Scars Guard. Is that what we're saying?

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Speaker 2: He's not a Scars Guard.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: He was in a Shakespeare okay take off like movie.

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Speaker 2: I do remember that as well. But all of that

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Speaker 2: to say is if he does as well, it'll be

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Speaker 2: interesting to see and I think the idea behind it

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Speaker 2: seems like a great idea, but yeah, it's really matter

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Speaker 2: another episode to who that he.

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Speaker 1: Brings on and like write, yeah, well, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: people fighting in defense of immigrants in the Netherlands, and we.

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Speaker 2: Could talk about how the US uses immigration as a

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Speaker 2: way of selling goods.

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Speaker 1: But a, we've covered that a little bit on episodes

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Speaker 1: that we did around Oh, I don't remember. There was

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Speaker 1: a side piece in one of these stories about how

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church was particularly guilty of, like in the

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century, taking immigrant kids from New York City and

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Speaker 1: selling them to rich people in the Southwest, and like

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Speaker 1: at one point a priest like went with the kids

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Speaker 1: and was like, WHOA, none of this is okay, And

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Speaker 1: I think I ended up in a gunfight with the

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Speaker 1: people who were trying to take the kids. Like wow,

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Speaker 1: But it has been a minute, sins I remember this story. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: the whole I've actually never quite found a way to

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Speaker 1: talk about adoptees' rights movement that like everyone I know

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Speaker 1: who's adopted who have talked to about this has real

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Speaker 1: issues with the adoption system and it's so hard to

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Speaker 1: bring up because people are like, but everyone who adopts

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Speaker 1: a kid as a saint who has personally saved a person,

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Speaker 1: I'm not adopted, and so it's like so hard to

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Speaker 1: like get over. I'm like, but isn't that good, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you're like, oh no, it's it is

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Speaker 1: messy at best.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the white saviorism that comes behind the conversation about adoption,

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Speaker 2: especially international adoption, there is this bit of like concern

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Speaker 2: and to to who they see as adoptedbull is a

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Speaker 2: whole different conversation. Yeah, But I will say one of

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Speaker 2: the biggest conversations that has been had is through a

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Speaker 2: case from Denmark and an adoptee filed the case against

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Speaker 2: South Korea as an international adoptee, and that's what brought

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Speaker 2: up this upheaval within especially Korean adoptees, and it has

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Speaker 2: shone light on China as well. But hey, so you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they got some things that happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's people trying to do good things everywhere. It's like,

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Speaker 1: one of the main things I learned about history is

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Speaker 1: that when we have these like really black and white

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Speaker 1: way of thinking about things, obviously, like when states are

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Speaker 1: doing really bad things, you know. We're like like most

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Speaker 1: of the Germans and nineteen forty in Germany were either

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Speaker 1: in jail or doing bad stuff, but not all. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's like messy, right.

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Speaker 2: We love the underground swatters here, like the underground movements

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Speaker 2: that happened that I know nothing about that Margaret was

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Speaker 2: a part of.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, okay, so the Netherlands. Yes, to continue to

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Speaker 1: throw myself into this story way more than I actually

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable. I'm like so worried about being like I'm

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Speaker 1: so cool because I did this stuff. I'm like I

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Speaker 1: am a fly on the wall for these movings.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you are so cool back then that

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Speaker 2: we wouldn't have been friends. And I've been so intimidated

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Speaker 2: by you, so I love hearing these stories.

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Speaker 1: I stuck around the Netherlands for three months, but this

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Speaker 1: was I was on a tourist visa, so at the

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Speaker 1: time you could have three months out of six without

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Speaker 1: getting into potential problems, and so I had to fuck

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Speaker 1: off for a while. I went back to the US

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Speaker 1: and I spent a miserable autumn and winter living in

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Speaker 1: a loft and a punk house in Ashville. Washing dishes

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Speaker 1: at a late night diner and walking home in the

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Speaker 1: snow at five am most mornings. But this was also

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Speaker 1: my most like Empire Records moment, was working in this

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Speaker 1: diner where we would like we could play whatever we wanted,

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Speaker 1: and especially after it closed, we could play in as

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Speaker 1: loud as we wanted. So we were just like listen

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Speaker 1: to punk rock while like mopping the floors and like

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Speaker 1: romanticizing her like kind of crummy lives and you know.

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Speaker 2: Really we're living the nineties two thousand movie era, I know.

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Speaker 1: And this was the first time I did a never

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Speaker 1: get mad at someone who dresses up as a girl

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Speaker 1: for Halloween because she just doesn't know she's a girl yet, okay,

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Speaker 1: And so I like, yeah, absolutely, like went to work

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Speaker 1: as like a passing trans girl because I was young

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Speaker 1: enough to do that, you know, And well I still

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Speaker 1: pass as a trans girl, but anyway, whatever. So sometimes

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Speaker 1: besides all that, so I'm living in the US when

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Speaker 1: all this stuff happens, and I'm just sad, and meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: shit is going down in the Netherlands. On October twenty sixth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five, and into the morning of the

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Speaker 1: twenty seventh, a fire broke out at the largest of

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Speaker 1: the airport detention centers, the one built right outside shit

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Speaker 1: Bull Airport, the Amsterdam Airport. Probably I read way too

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Speaker 1: much of like a one hundred page report that's linked

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Speaker 1: in the notes about the internal investigation about this. No

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Speaker 1: one is certain. It probably started from a cigarette being

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Speaker 1: cast off. Two hundred and ninety eight people were locked

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Speaker 1: up in cells in that detention center, again, most of

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Speaker 1: them not even being accused of any crime. There might

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Speaker 1: have been some people who had swallowed some drugs and

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Speaker 1: flown into the country, which is funny because that's why

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Speaker 1: white people go to the fucking Netherlands, right, Like, this

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Speaker 1: is kind of funny. When I decided I was going

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Speaker 1: to the Netherlands, I was going because of legalized squatting.

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Speaker 1: My parents and my parents' generation were like, ah, legalized weed,

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Speaker 1: that's why you're going there, right. I don't smoke weed.

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Speaker 1: It makes me too paranoid because I've had too many

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Speaker 1: encounters with the police already in my life. And my

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Speaker 1: grandfather was like, Ah, the ladies in the picture windows.

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Speaker 2: The ladies, that's what I've heard, right, And.

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Speaker 1: So like people go to the Netherlands to do drugs.

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Speaker 1: That is the basis of their tourism is legalized sex

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Speaker 1: work and drugs, right and anyway, But how dare Some

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Speaker 1: people have swallowed drugs and brought them into the country,

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Speaker 1: but most of them were asylum seekers, people who had

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Speaker 1: not been accused of breaking a single law. The center

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Speaker 1: was a death trap, and eleven people died in the fire.

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Speaker 1: Fire safety. We know it wasn't part of its planning.

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Speaker 1: The Dutch government admits this. I read the internal report

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Speaker 1: about it, and it conclusively states that poor planning led

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Speaker 1: to this situation. Planners had all along told them how

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Speaker 1: to do things differently, but they ignored those people and

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Speaker 1: those warnings. Like the report is like things to have

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Speaker 1: done differently, not ignored the following things, you know. And

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Speaker 1: it's so interesting. It's so cold, right because it's written

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Speaker 1: in this bureaucratic language, and it talks about being like

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Speaker 1: fire safety is particularly complicated when everyone in the building

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Speaker 1: is kept into cells, and it just like it's like

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Speaker 1: admitting like prison is a trap, you know, right, Another

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Speaker 1: similar center officials had already put together a report about

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Speaker 1: how wildly inadequate the safety was there. This was also ignored. Apparently,

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Speaker 1: the same detention center, the Shipbull Detention Center might have

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Speaker 1: caught fire once already before, shortly after it had opened.

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Speaker 1: There was no pull this lever and all the cell

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Speaker 1: doors unlock system. During the fire, the guards, who were

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Speaker 1: almost all private contractors for a private company, went sell

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Speaker 1: to sell to let people out, and it took them

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Speaker 1: a long time to start doing that. When prisoners were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's a fire, the guards ignored them. Apparently there was

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Speaker 1: no fire alarm system, because maybe there was, but the

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Speaker 1: way that people heard about the fire was prisoners being like, hey,

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Speaker 1: they were ignored for a long time. Story after story

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Speaker 1: has come out from the detainees saying they were held

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Speaker 1: at gunpoint by these private guards when they were trying

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Speaker 1: to help people escape the fire. Like most of the

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Speaker 1: news reports about us at the time, like don't worry,

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Speaker 1: we got a helicopter to find the eight people who escaped.

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Speaker 1: Again not even criminals, not even by Dutch legal standards,

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Speaker 1: but don't worry. They all got tracked down. It's twenty

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Speaker 1: years later and I'm still mad about this. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's murder, right, it's state sanctioned murder of the most

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Speaker 1: vulnerable people in your carriage. The way you treat the

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Speaker 1: people who you have ultimate power over. Is how you

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Speaker 1: know whether or not you're a moral person. And if

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Speaker 1: you are this country and these people have come to

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Speaker 1: you and say like, hey, I have nothing and if

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Speaker 1: I go home they'll kill me, the way you treat

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Speaker 1: them is how you should understand whether or not you're

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Speaker 1: a moral person. But don't worry right away. Rida Verdonk

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Speaker 1: was right on top of it. She went and told

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Speaker 1: the press that the guards had quote adequately handled the situation.

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Speaker 1: She's a real fucking Donald Trump. Like she wasn't the

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Speaker 1: prime minister, so she didn't get to.

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Speaker 2: Be one, right. I mean her and Christy Nomes sound

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Speaker 2: like they could be best friends. Yeah, they could be

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Speaker 2: best friends. Maybe they are.

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Speaker 1: I bet they are, honestly could be. She is still alive.

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Speaker 1: I believe there was one thing I will say about

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Speaker 1: America over Europe. I sure appreciate our press freedoms here

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Speaker 1: now because it took me a while to understand. Like

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Speaker 1: later in this people are going to get in a

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Speaker 1: lot of trouble for hanging up banners that say, hey,

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Speaker 1: you killed these people. Rita right, And I'm like, how

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Speaker 1: is that illegal? I'm like, oh, because they don't have

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Speaker 1: free speech protections, not that this wouldn't happen in America.

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Speaker 2: Let's say we're teetering.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so this became a massive political scandal when eleven

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Speaker 1: people died, because I think people were able to say, like, oh, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: those people were in our care and we failed them right.

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Speaker 1: In response to the fire, squats all over Amsterdam hung

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Speaker 1: up banners blaming Rita Verdonk personally for the fires. These

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Speaker 1: banners said things like, for Donk, still no blood on

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Speaker 1: your hands because she it said, after the people had

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Speaker 1: been killed in the Congo, she didn't have any blood

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Speaker 1: on her hands because they hadn't died in her care.

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Speaker 1: And another banner read eleven burned alive thanks Rita, and

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Speaker 1: another one. And I believe this isn't the best translation

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Speaker 1: eleven innocently detained dead by guilt. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: not great translations that I found in various points to

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Speaker 1: this story. The mayor at the city was the famous

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Speaker 1: Yop Cohen and Yop is spelled job, but it's yup

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Speaker 1: or something that sounds like that. And I never got

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Speaker 1: good at Dutch pronunciation to the point where I got

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Speaker 1: frustrated and gave up and started studying Spanish, and then

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Speaker 1: my Dutch friends were like, you know, I appreciate their

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Speaker 1: trying to learn Spanish. You do live in the Netherlands.

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Speaker 1: You could be studying Dutch and I'd be like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the difference between cocain and cocaine is not something I

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Speaker 1: can hear. That is not a thing that makes any

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Speaker 1: sense to me.

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Speaker 2: That was repetition to me.

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Speaker 1: Right, I'm doing it wrong. I can't actually pronounce it.

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Speaker 1: This it's the difference between cooking in the kitchen. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's two different vowel sounds that we don't have in English,

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Speaker 1: and so it's just anyway whatever. Yeah, yeah, Actually, some

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Speaker 1: of the other people on the other side, some of

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Speaker 1: the squatters are also named Yop.

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Speaker 2: So it's a common name.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yop. Cohen was famous specifically for diffusing xenophobic tensions

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Speaker 1: in Amsterdam. He's actually like, he's an interesting character to

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Speaker 1: throw into this reader. Verdonk is his right wing figure.

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Speaker 1: There's no doubt about that Amsterdam was heavily Muslim by

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Speaker 1: the mid two thousands. I think it's like it was

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Speaker 1: around like only half born in the Netherlands. I believe

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Speaker 1: at that point, specifically, he had been heralded as a

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Speaker 1: hero for keeping shit together. After that Van Gogh was murdered,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like he genuinely did a good job.

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Speaker 1: His motto wasn't we must act firmly? His motto was

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Speaker 1: like we listened to all sides. Riata Verdonk didn't like

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Speaker 1: him at all. In two thousand and six, after the

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Speaker 1: events of this story, she accused Amsterdam of being a

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Speaker 1: banana republic, which I actually don't think is a correct

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Speaker 1: use of the word banana republic, but we're gonna it's

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Speaker 1: what she said anyway, right, I honestly think she just

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Speaker 1: straight up met a racist. I actually think it was

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Speaker 1: like probably straight up about like black people.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say, is this supposed to be like

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Speaker 2: racist towards black people? I believe we're saying, okay, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: interesting and.

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Speaker 1: A conflation of all like Middle Eastern immigrants with black immigrants.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, like she never said I hate black people, right,

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Speaker 1: she just said I post multiculturalism. Well, actually she might

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Speaker 1: said I hate black people. I did not find her

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Speaker 1: saying that. But she would complain about the lazy youth

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Speaker 1: causing lots of crime by hanging around the corners. Now

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Speaker 1: Amsterdam's crime levels were the same as every other city

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Speaker 1: in the Netherlands. It's just where all the immigrants lived.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, Also, I'm guessing they're creating chaos to give

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Speaker 2: them charges, as in like, oh, you're standing your jaywalking

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Speaker 2: type of conversation and excessively giving out charges.

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Speaker 1: Totally. But do you know what doesn't care about anything

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Speaker 1: other than your money. Tell me the products and services

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Speaker 1: to support this show. Actually, I can't promise that some

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Speaker 1: of them might be racist, but if they are, we

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Speaker 1: get them cut.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let us know on our show too, we.

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Speaker 1: Actually do try to not have that happen. Yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: never made Sophie make that face with a that transition before. Sorry, Sophie,

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Speaker 1: here's the ads and we're back. So this hero of

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Speaker 1: moderation and acceptance that is you know, yop right, and

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Speaker 1: it's telling about where Dutch society was, free speech and

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Speaker 1: all of that in two thousand and five. That he's

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Speaker 1: the one who led the assault on the squats for

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Speaker 1: hanging anti Verdonk banners. And this is sort of the

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Speaker 1: problem that people have with moderates and centrists is that

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Speaker 1: if your primary concern is difusing tensions, you might not

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Speaker 1: be looking in to see whether those tensions are justified.

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Speaker 1: All right, buses full of riot police rated squats all

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Speaker 1: over the city to rip these banners down. It's almost comical,

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Speaker 1: except for the fact that people almost diet or in

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Speaker 1: this but they don't. Well, people died at the start

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Speaker 1: of it. But it's almost comical the level of overreaction.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the banners that named Rita by name.

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Speaker 1: There was a legal argument that could be made that

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Speaker 1: they were criminal to put up because defamation defamation.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: The squats were generally speaking, legal residences, were people legally resided,

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Speaker 1: but because they would eventually be criminalized by the state

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Speaker 1: and then raided, like that was the fate of most

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Speaker 1: squats if they weren't eventually legalized. Also, a lot of

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Speaker 1: times squats would be attacked by thugs hired by the

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Speaker 1: owners of the buildings who left them vacant. Like there

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Speaker 1: was this a whole thing where I wasn't a very

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Speaker 1: fighty person, but people would be like, Hey, we need

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Speaker 1: everyone to come stay over at the squad because we

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Speaker 1: think the owner is going to send people around to

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Speaker 1: try and beat us up, so we all have to

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Speaker 1: be there. And I would be like, but I am

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Speaker 1: but a little waif. Why would you want to waif?

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Speaker 2: Is the body the numbers?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like no, we don't care. You're part of

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Speaker 1: the squad saying you got to do this thing. And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, I.

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Speaker 2: Want American, let's go.

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Speaker 1: This is what solidarity is. If one of us is

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Speaker 1: getting beat up, we're all getting beat up. And actually

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Speaker 1: a lot of them could beat up back better than

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Speaker 1: I could.

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Speaker 2: So that's why he told you to go to the gym.

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Speaker 1: That I know, like honestly, actually, yeah, So the squats

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Speaker 1: are very well barricaded because they are under assault a lot, right, right,

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Speaker 1: Like a lot of squatters were like locksmiths and shit professionally, like,

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Speaker 1: oh really yeah, you have whole teams of breakers who

401
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Speaker 1: knew exactly how to get into a building as quickly

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Speaker 1: and like non destructively as possible, despite what their name

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Speaker 1: translates to. So cops showed up outside a squat called

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Speaker 1: the wilda Vestern the wild West, and it had still

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Speaker 1: no blood on your hands. Rita banner, and the squatters

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Speaker 1: barricaded themselves inside, and they called a friend. They were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: the cops are outside about her banner and the friend

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Speaker 1: and came by to talk to the police, and he

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Speaker 1: went up and he was like, if you believe it

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Speaker 1: is illegal for that banner to be there, that my

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Speaker 1: banner I put it there, arrest me and they would

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Speaker 1: be like na, and he'd be like, take down my

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Speaker 1: name and information. I am taking full legal responsibility for

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Speaker 1: that banner. So he had to like make them take

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Speaker 1: down as information. They refused to arrest him instead, at

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Speaker 1: five point thirty in the morning. The next morning, the

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Speaker 1: police raided the place, breaking out windows and pepper sprain everywhere.

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Speaker 1: The communal kitchen that they used to feed hungry people

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Speaker 1: was destroyed, so the squatters put up a new banner

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Speaker 1: that said burned alive thanks to Rita. So the cops

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Speaker 1: came back that afternoon with a knife attached to a

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Speaker 1: stick and started trying to cut the banner down, So

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Speaker 1: the squatters brought it inside until the cops left and

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Speaker 1: then hung it again and the police raided again. They

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Speaker 1: stopped traffic in the streets and attacked passerby. They spent

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Speaker 1: ten minutes trying to beat down the door, but squatters

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Speaker 1: know their business and they couldn't get through the door,

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Speaker 1: so one cop gave another cop a leg up and

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Speaker 1: they snatched the banner and then they left like it

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Speaker 1: all fell into this weird game of capture the flag.

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Speaker 1: Right the whole time, that's same man kept telling the

432
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: police like, hello, it's me right, that's my banner. I

433
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: would like to take legal responsibility. If that's crime, please

434
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: put me on trial. If this is a criminal offense,

435
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: we can discuss it in court. And they were like, no,

436
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 1: we want to do this weird thing where we have

437
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: this knife on a stick, and we're really excited about

438
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: the knife stick. So I don't know what we're gonna

439
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 1: do here.

440
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 2: You know who's not excited about a knife stick? Though,

441
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 2: come on, Margaret.

442
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 1: I know that's true. That is a good point. You

443
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: know that things are bad in your country for law

444
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: and order when the anarchists are more interested in law

445
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: than the police are. Right at another squad, the cops

446
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: came and said, hey, take down the banner. And in

447
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: this case, the filde Western was like a kind of

448
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 1: a social center, like people lived there, but I was

449
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: also this communal kitchen. I used to go to pizza

450
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: nights there. They were actually the first people were nice

451
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: to be about the accordion. They were like, Hey, we

452
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: want to have a fancy dinner. Come, come play accordion.

453
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 2: Wait so they made you do a fancy music time

454
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: were their fancy dinner with the accordion?

455
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: Make is not the right word. They invited me to Okay.

456
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 2: They asked you. That's fantastic. I know.

457
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: It's one of the first times I was like, oh,

458
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: maybe people like me here.

459
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 2: They love your skills. They found the youth for.

460
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 1: I think it's just that they like didn't know how

461
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: to like we just socialized different, you know.

462
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, music speaks to everyone, especially an accordion.

463
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. When I would bust all the time, I had

464
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 1: a nemesis, who is the hurdy gurdy man?

465
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 2: I'm sorry?

466
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 1: What? Yeah? So, which is funny because hurdy gurdy actually

467
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 1: means something different. It's the name for a lot of

468
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: different instruments. Hurdy gurdy, as I understand it now, is

469
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: a hand cranked, weird violin thing from the Middle Ages

470
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 1: where you press keys and it pushes on the strings.

471
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: But the hurdy gurdy man, who is my nemesis, had

472
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: a steam empowered I would call the calliope, or maybe

473
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: it was gas powered, but it would like blow air

474
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: through these like perforated sheets that had the music on

475
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 1: them right, and so it was like carnival music, you know,

476
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 1: And he would just blow away everyone else on the street.

477
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 1: He would just like push it around and no one

478
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: else could busk because this man was just like infinitely

479
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: loud yea. And at one point get into kind of

480
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: like turf stuff over busking. And so at one point

481
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm busking with my my French friend is

482
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: also accordionist, and blow it and I'm trying to show

483
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: her that busking is fine. And she's like way better

484
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 1: and accordious than me. Anyway, we barely speak the same language,

485
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 1: English as or third language, but we can talk about accordions.

486
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: So it's fine. And he comes and he starts blowing

487
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: us out of the water, and so I go over

488
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: and I'm like, hey, man, like we were here first.

489
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: He was like I don't care. I'm like fuck. He

490
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 1: was like I have papers because he had a permit

491
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: to do it and we didn't have a parole.

492
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 2: Oh he had permit.

493
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so we gave up. I had to go home,

494
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: and so he would just show up and ruin us.

495
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: But the violinist I started off in conflict with because

496
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: we would try and get to the same spot at

497
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: the same time every day when like the shopping district

498
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: closed and you were allowed to bust, but there's still

499
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 1: people around, and so I'm like walking down the street

500
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: and he would start walking faster, I'd start walking faster.

501
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: And we did not share a single word of a

502
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: shared language. He didn't speak any Dutch, I didn't whatever anyway,

503
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: And finally, like we like nonverbally communicated that like all right,

504
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: this is my block, that's your block, and we like

505
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: figured it out. We became friends. We'd like check in

506
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: on each other at the end of the day and

507
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: we're like, hey, how you doing.

508
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 2: You know, Okay, this feels like what I would imagine

509
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: of the Netherlands. I want you to know this, like

510
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: this is very like Battle of the Accordion and like

511
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 2: all of these instruments that are you're not your typical

512
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: that I have seen, And I'm like, this is amazing.

513
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna call it white nonsense.

514
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: What you can if you want the calliope, hurdy gurdy

515
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: versus Accordian.

516
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 2: Fight, It's exactly what I'm like, this is, Yeah, this

517
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 2: is what I would imagine as a Dutch story that

518
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 2: is coming to me as not knowing anything about the

519
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: Dutch people once again, and I love it. I also

520
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 2: love the ending with the violinists. And in my head,

521
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: I'm like whispering the background, now kiss, this battle in

522
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 2: each other's face. I'm like, uh, but now kiss and

523
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: it becomes a rom com.

524
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: It would be such a good romance.

525
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 2: This is the turn in my head that that has

526
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 2: happened on the Dutch streets that I know nothing of.

527
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: You know, there was a busking accordion Amsterdam romance story

528
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: that I'm not going to say on Mike, but I'll

529
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: tell you later. Anyway, So this squad, not the Bildevester

530
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: and this other squad that I'm gonna talk about.

531
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 2: Which, by the way, So they had a place that

532
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 2: translate into the words wild West. Did they have a

533
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: like in Dutch culture, a wild West because that's typically

534
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: a US battle of the cowboy thing.

535
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: So it's a reference to American cowboy wild west stuff.

536
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: But it was in West is the name of the district.

537
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 2: Oh okay, that makes sense, Okay, yeah, okay.

538
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 1: But there was nothing themed wild Western about it.

539
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 2: I'm like, please tell me you had chaps and cowboy hat.

540
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: No, they had like a pizza contest where it was

541
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: two different squats would come over and try and make

542
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: the best pizza to give away for free, and so

543
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: whoever had the nicest pizza would win. But it was

544
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: just a whiteboard where people would tally which when they

545
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: prefer and no one policed who was tallying what, so

546
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: people would just get drunk and start adding more and

547
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: more tallies. I love that kind of competition where it's

548
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: not taken seriously at all, except the making of the pizza.

549
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: They took very seriously.

550
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: So was it some of the best pizza that you've

551
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: ever had?

552
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: No, I don't like touch pizza very much. American and

553
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: Italian pizza is good everywhere else. I can't.

554
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: It wasn't good.

555
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: It was fine.

556
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 2: It was fine, But you didn't tell them that, right.

557
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: No, absolutely not. Yeah, I know, and if you're listening,

558
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: I loved your pizza.

559
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 2: Everything was amazing.

560
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing hurt.

561
00:27:58,280 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: Nothing hurt.

562
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: So this other squad, it's just a residence. People live there,

563
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: including a four year old. They still are like, we

564
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: got to do it's right, you know, but we're also like, man,

565
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: we don't want got to raid it a four year

566
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: old lives here, you know. They put up a banner,

567
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: and the cops come and say take down the banner,

568
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: and the squatter goes outside and he talks to the

569
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: cops and or they actually don't know the pronouns of

570
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: this particular person, and they're like, hey, look, I actually

571
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: can't make a decision about this banner by myself. It's

572
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: actually owned collectively, So tell me what specific complaint you

573
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: have against it, and I'll bring it to the collective

574
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: and we'll deal with this. Which is the most fun

575
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: way to irritate cops is when you're like, hey, no

576
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: one's in charge. I'm sorry you have to go through

577
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: collective process, because no one likes collective process, and it's

578
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: really fun to do to people. And once again the

579
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: squatters were like, look, we'll let a judge decide the

580
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: legality of the banner. They're like, come here and tell

581
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: us what the specific complaint is and you can have it.

582
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: In this case, when the cops left and they were like,

583
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: all right, look, we can't have a raid. If the

584
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: cops come back, we'll give them the banner. They all agreed,

585
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: and instead the cops came back, batons swinging, so the

586
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: squatters tossed down the banner, the cops took it and ran.

587
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: A few days later, they're still feeling kind of salty,

588
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: so they hang up some new banners and they say,

589
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: for donks, still no blood on your hands, And they

590
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: say four banners more important than eleven human lives. We

591
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: demand justice, and my favorite one, I want my banner back.

592
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: I mean, that's simple, give me a banner back.

593
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: I know. So the police closed off the entire street

594
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: and arrested one squatter on her way home from work.

595
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: And the police saw a squatter with a power drill

596
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: on the roof who was up there hanging up a banner,

597
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: and they decided the drill. You know how cops think

598
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: everything is a gun. They were like, oh, it's a gun.

599
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: Shots are being fired. Squatters tend to monitor police radio,

600
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: so they heard the cops saying things like the squatters

601
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: are still shooting, even though we can't hear the shots.

602
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: What they're like, somehow it has to be a gun

603
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: and they have to be shooting at us even though

604
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: we can't hear anything. Right, I think because they're listening

605
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: to the radio, someone inside sorts out that the cops

606
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: are freaked out over this drill, and that's why they're

607
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: like on crazy lockdowns equivalent of swat outside. And so

608
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: someone walks out holding the drill over their head and

609
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, it's just a drill. They set the

610
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: drill on the ground and they are promptly arrested. The

611
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: rest of the squatters decide they don't want to be raided.

612
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: They surrender themselves. They come out of their legal residence

613
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: and get arrested one by one for someone having had

614
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: a drill with a banner that the cops wouldn't even

615
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: admit this defamation. And interestingly, the owner of the house,

616
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: who's like probably not a big fan of the squatters

617
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: who are living in the house, was far more mad

618
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: at the cops because they smashed up his doors right

619
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: than he was at the squatters. And they were released

620
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: without charges or any paperwork. A week later, the cops

621
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: returned the drill, so they hung up a banner that

622
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: said banners don't kill, ACU drills don't kill, which is

623
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: the brand of drill the deportation policies do. And then

624
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: they came from my house the omstall. But do you

625
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: know what the ground floor of the Omstoll was it

626
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: was a sushi restaurant that sold things. And do you

627
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: know who else sells things? Add Peoples, Yeah, ad Peoples.

628
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: If nothing else, ads have been sold to be on

629
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: this podcast. Not actually all of them sell things. Some

630
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: of them are for very good podcasts. I've started listening

631
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: to some podcasts based on ads and cool Zone shows,

632
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: so as you should. Yeah, anyway, here they are.

633
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 2: Row back.

634
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: I'm being a little self important when I call it

635
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: my house because in Dutch squatting terms, it wasn't my

636
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: house because I didn't help open it. So even though

637
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: I lived there for about half a year and like

638
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: had a room, it wasn't my house.

639
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: Could it be your residence? Is that a better way

640
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: to say it?

641
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, it was just a kind of an interesting

642
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: like like later I actually had a squat that was

643
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: my squat kind of because I was like part of

644
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: the group that got into it, you know. But the

645
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: Omstoles like it's where I lived, It's where I hung

646
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: out and like slept and all of that. Had lots

647
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: of sleep. Proalyssis dreams about strange demons, you know, all

648
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: the important.

649
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: Stuff they try to get you.

650
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: It's a very old building. I'm not really in this story,

651
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: but I just care about it because this was where

652
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: I lived. I was back in the States, being depressed,

653
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: washing dishes at the late night diner, renting a loft

654
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: in a basement where if I sat up too fast

655
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: I would hit my head on asbestos. I was like

656
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: paying a couple hundred bucks a month to rent this loft,

657
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: and I was like, Man, I used to live in

658
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: this mansion we stole from a mafia leader for free,

659
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: for free, and among the most beautiful places in the world,

660
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: right on the downtown Maine Canal of Amsterdam. And now

661
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: I live in a basement with asbestos and washed dishes

662
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: and washed and pay for it. So I got myself

663
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: back to Amsterdam as soon as I could. But the

664
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: downside is that there are far more police rates when

665
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: you stay at these places. Oh. Yes, this place was

666
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: owned by a mafia family. I've read a couple different

667
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: versions about this. I had always been told while I

668
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: lived there that the mafia owner was in prison, and

669
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: so that's why his building had gone empty. Is that

670
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: he was in prison, but he would send people around

671
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: to try and roust us out every now and then,

672
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: And so it was very well barricaded. Two days after

673
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: the fire, the omstill hung of a banner that said

674
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: burned alive. Thank you Rita. One resident Shword wrote about

675
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: it quote with this message. We wanted to say that,

676
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: according to us, eleven people died because of this minister's policies.

677
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 1: We wanted to stimulate opinions and make people think. In

678
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: my opinion, it is necessary for democracy to have discussions,

679
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: and therefore it's necessary to put a cat among the pigeons,

680
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: which is a Dutch idiom meaning to stir things up.

681
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:30,720
Speaker 2: That makes sense.

682
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: My favorite Dutch idiom. Instead of saying you can't get

683
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: blood from a stone, they would say you can't pluck

684
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: feathers from a naked chicken. They're not wrong, I know

685
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: there's no feathers to pluck. It feels more accurate.

686
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: How many naked chickens do they have at the squad? Yeah?

687
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: How many natural chickens do the Dutch have naked.

688
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 1: Rather naked chickens? Yeah, probably not a lot.

689
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: I'm assuming if that's the process of like, you know.

690
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: But maybe you've already gotten all the feathers from cha.

691
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 2: You're plucking them because of the.

692
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: There's no feathers left. No, No, I'm not sure. I

693
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 1: also like to think sometimes that like a Dutch idiom

694
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: that someone taught me could have just been someone fucking

695
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: with me.

696
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: It's kind of like when people get Asian character tattoos

697
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: and people would just messing with them and be like, yeah,

698
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 2: that's absolutely a word that you want on there.

699
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. One time I was in Sweden and I was

700
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: waiting for this book fair to open, so I was

701
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: I went to the store and I was like, I'm hungry,

702
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: So I bought a green pepper and I was eating

703
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: the green.

704
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: Pepper like a bill pepper.

705
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just a green bell pepper you ate like

706
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: an apple? Yeah yeah, huh. Interesting, And the sweetish person

707
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: is like, man, you Americans are so weird.

708
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 2: And that's when Americans are like, that's not common.

709
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not a thing we do either.

710
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: That's a Margaret.

711
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, honey, don't make your decisions about Americans based on

712
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: the like has it come out yet? Trans girl? The

713
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: beard and a skirt.

714
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 2: Just really needed some There's a lot of iron in

715
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 2: bill pepper. I think.

716
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: When I am like the platonic ideal of a vegetable,

717
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: when I'm like, man, I need a vegetable. It is

718
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: a green bell pepper.

719
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 2: A bell pepper.

720
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: It's like slightly bitter, has a nice crisp bite.

721
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 2: Does have a crunch. Yeah, like Peaches, my dog, that's

722
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 2: one of our favorite things, is a green bell pepper

723
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: because she loves loves a crunch. Yeah, she loves the

724
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: idea that she's breaking something I assume, but that's an Okay,

725
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: I'm sorry I stopped that story, but I needed to

726
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 2: know that that's a bell pepper.

727
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 1: Moving on, Yeah, I just I really like the idea

728
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: of me as the ambassador for America.

729
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 2: Walking around with a bell pepper.

730
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. At one point, actually years later from this, I

731
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: was giving a talk in the Netherlands about the state

732
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: of American anarchism and someone was like, yeah, but you're

733
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: just talking about like the punks and stuff who dressed

734
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: like you. And I'm like, man, no one dresses like me,

735
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: like like actually just funny as now people do, because

736
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: like everyone's come out as trans but like like now,

737
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: like a man in a long black pirate dress, that's

738
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: not normal, Like that wasn't how my friends dressed.

739
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 2: I hope you correct it. I'm like, boo, no, I'm

740
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 2: an icon. I am a trandsetter. No one is like me.

741
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is actually it led to the very first

742
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: time I was recognized in public. This is years before

743
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 1: any of the shit.

744
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: Oh I was playing.

745
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: Accordion at Amsterdam, and I swear to god, I don't

746
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: normally have that many stories about this, and this is

747
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 1: like five years late. This is like twenty ten touch.

748
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 2: Accordion has never come up more. I love that that

749
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: is like the main character in this story inside of

750
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: the like squatters and the amazing rebellion and anti fascist

751
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 2: but also Accordions. Yeah, I'm gonna need a picture.

752
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: I could probably find one.

753
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna need a picture of you in Yeah.

754
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: But I was busking in an Accordion and this woman

755
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: comes up to me. She's not subculturally dressed. She's just

756
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: like a you know, woman from Turkey. And she comes

757
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: up and she goes, are you American? And I'm like yeah.

758
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: She's like, are you an anarchist? And I'm like, oh man,

759
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: uh yeah. She's like are you Margaret Killjoy? Oh hello,

760
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: because she had seen a talk I gave with fucking

761
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: Ursula Gwynn on YouTube.

762
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah that is so niche.

763
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have that anyway, we became friends.

764
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: Obviously she wanted to be your friend.

765
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I was definitely just like a couple of

766
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: times in my life strangers have asked me if I'm

767
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: an anarchist, and I've answered honestly and it's gone well

768
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: every time, but I'm always a little nervous.

769
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a little bit of like why.

770
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, how's this gonna go?

771
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 2: Anyway? Back to your house?

772
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: So short who has that quote from earlier, who was

773
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 1: at the armstrole, was my friend and probably still would

774
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: be if we were on the same continent. And frankly,

775
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna sidetrack about how much I respect this man.

776
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: He was one of my heroes and role models when

777
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: I was in my early twenties. We are not very

778
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: similar and aesthetics or temperament. He was always kind of macho,

779
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: but he would listen when people would be like hey,

780
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: including his partner, would be like hey, you're kind of

781
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: being kind of chauvinistic, and he'd listen and he would

782
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: try to change. His partner was an Israeli anarchist who

783
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: lived in the Netherlands to avoid conscription into the IDF,

784
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: and the two of them regularly returned to Palestine to

785
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: join demonstrations against the IDF in the West Bank, facing

786
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 1: bullets and death. Like a bunch of people died during

787
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: those demonstrations. She later died of cancer, very young. Rest

788
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: in peace. Tall Short's primary interests were listening to Dutch

789
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: hip hop, lifting weights, fighting Nazis, and playing Dungeons and dragons.

790
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

791
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: He's actually the one who got me back into Plaine.

792
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 1: Dungeons and dragons really yeah, and he had his jaw

793
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: broken fighting Nazis.

794
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: And I thought you were going to say playing dungeons.

795
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, no, no, we didn't play that hard.

796
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: But I like, I don't know, whatever, here's the U,

797
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: old friend. I don't know. If you listen, some of

798
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: the squads had already been raided, and the residents of

799
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 1: the omstill looked out, and they saw black mercedes parked

800
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: out front with people with ear pieces inside the mercedes

801
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: watching them. The local news crew came, I think this

802
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: squatters called the news and they filmed the banner and

803
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: when they turned the camera on, the plane closed cops

804
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: and the mercedes. The film crew was told that they

805
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: were not allowed to film the people in the mercedes.

806
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: The squatters decided that they would resist, but non violently,

807
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: just in a more playful and active form of nonviolence,

808
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: which is that they threw water balloons at the police.

809
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: Because the home alone moments are coming back. One of

810
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: the residents had experienced with climbing on ropes, like doing

811
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 1: activist stuff where you go and you hang a banner

812
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: and you hang out and you'd like lock yourself to

813
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: the banner at the no blood for oil or whatever

814
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: the style of the time. So he goes up to

815
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: the balcony, which is the third floor, but they call

816
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: it the second floor because they don't how to count,

817
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 1: and he's hanging there off with the banner. Two platoons

818
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: of riot cops, a van full of stillin which are

819
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: the undercovers who don't actually try to look undercover. They're

820
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: like the obvious undercovers who are there to intimid eight people.

821
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

822
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: And then the brata, who are the riot cops who

823
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: specialize in evictions. They all show up, so they're like,

824
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: all right, this is about to get This hasn't gone

825
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: great for us, messy. All of these cops outside could

826
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: have gotten a ladder and pulled down the banner. They didn't.

827
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: They wanted to raid the building. The Brataw went to

828
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: the door with sledgehammers, water balloons rained down onto them.

829
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: The door didn't budge, so the cops got out chainsaws.

830
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: The Omstoll was a historic building. It was protected by

831
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: historical building laws. The front door was this big ornamental

832
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: wooden door. It was probably like five hundred year old door.

833
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: The riot police chainsaw right through it. Oh no, I

834
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: want to quote sure directly for this next part. Quote. We,

835
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: the four occupants and our guests had experienced evictions before.

836
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: To a great extent. Evictions are ritualized. There are certain

837
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: rules of play, and we were keeping to that. One

838
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: of the most important ones is that you cease resisting

839
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: actively as soon as the brataw are inside. When the

840
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: front door was destroyed, almost everybody went to the living

841
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: room on the first floor, second floor, if you know

842
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: what account, and waited for the brata to come in.

843
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: A friend and I stayed on the balcony of the

844
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: second floor, third floor. In America to assist the climber

845
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: who was hanging off during the actions, there always has

846
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,959
Speaker 1: to be someone with the climber, the aid in case

847
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: of emergency, the brata has experienced with this, and we

848
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: assumed that they would respect it with a chainsaw. They

849
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: took on the hatch door to the stairs, like, okay,

850
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: so if you like got in the front door and

851
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: you go up the stairs, there's a hatch that could

852
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 1: be closed that the squaders had installed to close it

853
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: off because it's home alone. Back to the quote, this

854
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: hatch door was never meant to stop the brata, just

855
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,919
Speaker 1: the owner's hit squad. It didn't hold out for long,

856
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: making a lot of racket. They stormed living room. You're

857
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 1: all under arrest on the floor. Now. They didn't give

858
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: a reason for this. Everybody was waiting on the couch peacefully.

859
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: There wasn't any resistance. The room was surveyable and the

860
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: light was on. There was certainly no threat for the

861
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: police at all. The woman who was sitting closest to

862
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: the door shouted, take it easy, jerk, and they immediately

863
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 1: punched her in the face, causing a heavy nosebleed. Anyway,

864
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: no longer a quote. They trashed the place, beat people

865
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: while they were restrained. The whole shitty nine yards. They

866
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 1: arrested the direct support for the climber, but they couldn't

867
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 1: reach the climber himself, so they were like, you better

868
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: come up, and he was like, ah, I'm not gonna.

869
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: So they pulled out a knife and held it up

870
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: to the rope. He's on the third floor of the

871
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: building and an ancient building with high ceilings. The cops

872
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: didn't cut the rope, but they pressed the knife up

873
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: to scare the climber. The climber refused to scare, so

874
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: they used the fire department to bring him down. The

875
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: fire department, though, they didn't like being used for political games,

876
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: so when they go up and take him down, they

877
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: are like, all right, we're gonna let you off on

878
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: the far side of the police line, and so they do,

879
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: and the cops still come over and they try to

880
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: arrest him, and the fire Department's like, nah, you can't

881
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: arrest him at least until the blood flow comes back

882
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: into his legs. We're gonna keep you away. And they

883
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 1: march all of the squatters out, all the people who

884
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: are supposedly under arrest, and they lead him outside and

885
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: then they're like, eh, whatever, we have the banner, and

886
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: they let them all go and then drive away. So

887
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 1: it was absolutely about violence and forced compliance, right yep.

888
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: And not about the law.

889
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 2: Right.

890
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: The mayor, mister Moderation, said that the raids were perfectly

891
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: legal because the banners were defamatory. They said things that

892
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 1: were against the fame. So a bunch of the squatters

893
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: they heard this and they're like, oh, they're defamatory.

894
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 2: Eh.

895
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: So the squatters went to the police station to file

896
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: charges against themselves.

897
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 2: Oh.

898
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: They were like, oh, yeah, right, you're saying that this

899
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: is a crime, right, fucking prove it, right, let's do this.

900
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: The police refused to accept the charges that they were

901
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: trying to file against themselves.

902
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 2: So when the raid happened, was the press still there?

903
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: I believe so, And there's a still image I have

904
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: of it. It's actually a really funny image. They stole

905
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: the banner and they also stole the red and black flag,

906
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: which is just an anarchist flag with no writing on it.

907
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: There's no way to consider it defamatory. It's just a

908
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 1: political flag. And so there's this nice footage of the

909
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: cops holding the big red and black flag. Oh I

910
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: love it. Yeah, but I believe it was like local

911
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: news in two thousand and five. So I haven't been

912
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: able to track down the footage of it, and what

913
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 1: short said about it all afterwards is quote why the

914
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: police did this. They never told us and we were

915
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 1: never told why it wasn't allowed to hang up these banners.

916
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: They never gave us any certificate of confiscation nor a

917
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: writ of summons for libel, defamation, mayhem or any other

918
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: kind of crime. The miscarriage of justice was obvious, and

919
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: the cover up over the fire was obvious, and more

920
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: people started speaking up against both. So posters went up

921
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 1: all over the country saying things like travel agency, RITA, arrest, deportation, cremation,

922
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: and then the part that isn't translated very well adequate

923
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: to the bitter end.

924
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I just love when people use like adequate

925
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 2: or they are okay, yeah, totally insult yeah, some par

926
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 2: okay mid exactly.

927
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: In Nimechen, which is another city in the Netherlands, one

928
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 1: person was arrested simply for unrolling the poster in front

929
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: of a TV camera. Theoretically right, because it's defamation, so

930
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: he showed the thing, but they, yeah, they just arrested

931
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: him for it. The activists filed a suit against the

932
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: Dutch state to ban the city from taking down the

933
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: banners referencing RITA Verdonk, and by November eighteenth, the Attorney

934
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 1: of the state announced that they were no longer taking

935
00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: actions against the banners, which did not meet their criteria defamatory. However,

936
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: the last news source I could find was this that

937
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: November eighteen it was no longer considered defamatory, and the

938
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: article ends with the person who unrolled the poster is

939
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: still going to court in January.

940
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 2: Oh well.

941
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: But what's really fun about old news stories is you

942
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: can find the thing that says this thing is happening,

943
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: and you cannot find follow up because it's not newsworthy

944
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: to people. You can only find that in the academic literature,

945
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: and it's hard. In this case. There's actually decent archives

946
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: of stuff from squats in Europe because they were all

947
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: very techy and they were all like early Internet people.

948
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 1: But it's still kind of limited. And it's a bit

949
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: of a problem that the story of the repression of

950
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: the activists became the news story instead of the deadly

951
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: fire that killed eleven people seeking asylum. I feel kind

952
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 1: of sad that my story is focused around that, but

953
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: the squatters and the banner hangars stayed on message the

954
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: entire time. This is about the fire. This is about

955
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: the treatment of migrants. The same people doing this were

956
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: like the same people who went to go shout their

957
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: support at detention centers. They're probably the same people who

958
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 1: occupy the detention center, or at least like spiritually on

959
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,240
Speaker 1: the same side. You know. Yeah, there was a flag

960
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: I saw all over the place around the Netherlands with

961
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: silhouettes of people runnings as refugees welcome. And unfortunately I

962
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 1: can't tell you that these protests worked. I can tell

963
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 1: you that the cover up didn't happen. They were not

964
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: able to sweep this under the rug. This stayed part

965
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: of the national conversation because of the people who were

966
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: willing to hang up banners in very public places and

967
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: then stand by and get arrested over nonsense around it, right,

968
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: But it didn't. As of twenty twenty two, at least

969
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: the deportation center Shipple is still in operation. As of

970
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, the Netherlands has what political calls quote

971
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: the most right wing government in the country's recent history.

972
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: It joins the rest of Fortress Europe as the continent

973
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: tries to crack down on the free movement of people.

974
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty five, it enacted its strictest asylum policy ever,

975
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: blocking family reunification and ending permanent residence permits, which are

976
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,720
Speaker 1: at least as the articles in twenty twenty five suggests,

977
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: possibly EU courts are going to find those illegal at

978
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: some point, you know, those particular levels of asylum restrictions.

979
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: And I want to tell you that the US is

980
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: alone in this hard right word turn, but it's not.

981
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,439
Speaker 1: But people in the Netherlands, no matter where they were born,

982
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: are still fighting for people and for freedom. And the

983
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:47,839
Speaker 1: future is famously unwritten. Even the past, it turns out,

984
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: is poorly written. And there's far far more cool people

985
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: in history than we assume, and they're in places that

986
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: you might not expect. And we can be those cool

987
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: people right now today with accordions. Yeah, all you need

988
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,919
Speaker 1: is an accordion. Man. There's so many good terrible jokes

989
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: about like banjo's and accordions, which were all the instruments

990
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: that all my friends played. You know. There's the joke

991
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: about like, oh no, I like left my accordion in

992
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 1: the backseat of my car, and then I went into

993
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: the store and I came back out and someone had

994
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: broken the window of the car to put another accordion

995
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: in there.

996
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 2: You would be so lucky.

997
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, accordions are great. They're the perfect busking instrument because

998
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:31,760
Speaker 1: they're like loud and kind of unique.

999
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 2: They are. For some reason, I picture them as like

1000
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 2: the Lady in the Tramp, not for some for reasons,

1001
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: I think of the Lady in the Tramp romantic spaghetti

1002
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 2: scenes with the backup music of the accordion.

1003
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, I like, I was like, this was

1004
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: not a very happy period of my life, as I

1005
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: keep hinting that, and like the way I coped with

1006
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: it was romanticizing the shit out of my life. I'd

1007
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: be like playing music for the drunks, coming home under

1008
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: a street light by the canal, with the snow falling

1009
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: on me, and I'd be like, you know what, if

1010
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 1: fucking nothing else, my life is.

1011
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,240
Speaker 2: Beautiful right now, this picture is perfect.

1012
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: Yeah? Like, am I lonely? Yes? Do I have a

1013
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 1: hard time connecting with people both here and in America? Yes?

1014
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: Does it feel like my side's winning?

1015
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 2: No?

1016
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: Am I right where I kind of want to be? Yeah?

1017
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 2: Oh, it's true. There are good people out there doing

1018
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 2: a lot of good work, including y'all who keep telling

1019
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 2: these stories and make sure that history is not erased

1020
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,439
Speaker 2: when we see the good that we need.

1021
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: Oh thanks.

1022
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1023
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 1: It was funny because I was like, I learned about

1024
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: this story. I heard about it because I came back

1025
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: and I was like, what happened to the door, you know,

1026
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, we got a story for you.

1027
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: And then I actually learned graphic design from Dutch squatters

1028
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: who put together a Dutch squatter magazine called lev which

1029
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: means like shout, and they were like, yeah, you could

1030
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: use your help, you kind of know in design. It

1031
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 1: was like a little bit and they were like, all right,

1032
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 1: you're doing it wrong. You got to make it cool

1033
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: and punk like this, you know. And it had a

1034
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 1: special insert that was in both English and Dutch about

1035
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: the Banner Wars as they called it, the Spendocan or Loch,

1036
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: which I'm pronouncing incredibly incorrectly based on a memory of

1037
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: someone telling me something a long time ago. And even

1038
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 1: at the time, it was like, oh, this is kind

1039
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: of like an interesting like it wasn't as big of

1040
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: a deal as most of the protests, including in the

1041
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: Netherlands and in the US that I was like around,

1042
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 1: and so what I didn't realize is that they were

1043
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: making a historical artifact, and they were making a little

1044
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: bit of memory that opens up other things, you know,

1045
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 1: and like going back in in retrospect to it real differently,

1046
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 1: it would have a they didn't know the names of

1047
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: the asylum seekers who died in the fire. The state

1048
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: didn't release that information too much later with the report.

1049
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: But there's like other things that they could have included

1050
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: in it, you know. But I actually really appreciate that

1051
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: they were, like, we're taking the time to document this

1052
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: thing that happened that and the the people who traveled

1053
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: all this way only to be killed, Like how we

1054
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: tried to not make them forgotten exactly. Anyway, do you

1055
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: got anything you want to plug here?

1056
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 2: At the end, come listen to our show, Steph Mom

1057
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 2: never told you. We talk about intersectional feminist issues and beyond.

1058
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 2: We even talk about that in relation to like gaming,

1059
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,760
Speaker 2: D and D things. Yeah, we talk all the different

1060
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: things outside of that. You can find me on the

1061
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 2: social Media's on a couple of them, but I'm not

1062
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 2: very active. I think it's McVeigh Sam on Instagram.

1063
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: But there's pictures of pets.

1064
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 2: There are pretty much only pictures of pets, But that's okay.

1065
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: It's the best kind of social media. I know.

1066
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 2: I agree. That's what I go for. I am on

1067
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 2: Blue Sky as well. I don't write on that either

1068
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 2: because I'm not witty and funny. When it comes one

1069
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 2: liner is on Twitter, so or not Twitter, I'm not that,

1070
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:01,240
Speaker 2: but Louis guy.

1071
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: Yeah I understand. Yeah, yeah, new Twitter.

1072
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 2: You know. Come and listen to us banter. We even

1073
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 2: have had Margaret on the show. We've even featured your

1074
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 2: book Real Hell.

1075
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. People should listen. And also I'll say

1076
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: that the best podcast series that I listened to last

1077
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: December was The Devil You Know by Sarah Marshall, and

1078
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: it talks about a Satanic panic in a way that

1079
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 1: I thought I knew the Satanic panic. I thought that

1080
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 1: was like a I was like, I already know that information.

1081
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 1: I did not, And it's incredibly well done. So I

1082
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: highly recommend that me too. That's my best friend. That's

1083
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: so good. Take care of yourselves and others and do

1084
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: what's right, not what's safe, but try to be safe. Well,

1085
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: you do what's right. And yeah, we're gonna get through this,

1086
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: most of us, hopefully. Whatever I don't know, we're gonna try.

1087
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 1: Everything is great.

1088
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 2: Cool People who did Cool Stuff is a production of

1089
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,720
Speaker 2: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1090
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: visit our website goolezonemedia dot com, or check us out

1091
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1092
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 2: your podcasts.