1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: But if you're working with a group of kids, it's 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: better to take attack that's going to keep more of 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: them there and build relationships across all of the kids, 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: rather than to assume that the ones who can't take 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: it should drop out anyway. This is the Reformed Sports Project, 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: a podcast about restoring healthy balance and perspective in all 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: areas of sports through education and advocacy. Hi, this is 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: Nick Bonacoor from the Reformed Sports Podcast. Today, I'm speaking 9 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: with doctor Julie McCleary, Director of Research Practice Partnerships for 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: the University of Washington Center for Leadership in Athletics. With 11 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: over twenty five years of experience as an educator, research 12 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: or a coach, Doctor McCleary is a longtime advocate for accessible, 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: inclusive children's sports and recreational options. Julie and I discuss 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: why kids who specialize early are more likely to develop 15 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: anxiety and depression in the long run, the importance of 16 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: coaches prioritizing psychological safety for their athlete, and why all 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: kids deserve access to high quality youth sports opportunities. Here 18 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: we go. I am once again ecstatic. I have another 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: awesome guest. She is a familiar voice a familiar person 20 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: in my life from the youth sports side. A lot 21 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: of you may know her work or see her on 22 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: social media. We spoke, we've spoken several times. We actually 23 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: recorded an episode way back and I screwed it up, 24 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: so we're gonna do it again. But I'm really tickled 25 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: to have her. She is a professor at the University 26 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: of Washington and all around stud and youth sports advocate. 27 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: Tremendous voice, Doctor Julie McClary, Doc, thank you so much 28 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: for hopping on. Thanks you, thanks for having me. Looking 29 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: forward to picking up where we left off on our 30 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: conversation for sure, and so walk us through. I mean, 31 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: obviously I gave a little bit of a background. You know, 32 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: we have our intro, But what exactly do you do 33 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: at the University of Washington, because I know it's really 34 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: centered around youth sports and kind of all that, So 35 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: can you kind of tell us what you're doing? Sure? Right, 36 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: I work within the College of Education at a center 37 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: called the Center for Leadership and Athletics, So I do 38 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: research on coaching and on youth sports, and then I 39 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: help translate that research into community based programs. So whether 40 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: that's coach training or For example, I help run a 41 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: coalition that's focused on play equity, you know, making sure 42 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: kids have access to youth sports. So I work on 43 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: kind of both the practical side and the research side, 44 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: and I also am an instructor in our graduate program, 45 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: which is focused on both athletic administration and coaching. I 46 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: love this because of the fact that you do the research. 47 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: A lot of people, you know, like to have opinions, 48 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: and you know, we try to get as much information 49 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: research out there because it's important to have data backed 50 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: up because I think we're all passionate about this, which 51 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: obviously it's an important thing to be passionate about, and 52 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about children. One thing in particular, I know 53 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: you and I spoke on about a year ago, and 54 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna set this up because a lot of people 55 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: may remember there was a viral video that went around 56 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: of Trent Dilfer, who's now the head football coach. I 57 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: think it's at like Uab's at college head football coach now. 58 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: He just got a new job. At the time, he 59 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: was a high school head coach at one of the 60 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: best programs I believe in the country, and there was 61 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: a viral clip of him like getting really really really intense, 62 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: you know, with a high school kid. He kind of 63 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 1: had him like jacked up by the shoulder pads, and 64 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: you know it was in his grill, you know when 65 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: I say in his girl in his face, you know, 66 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: and being very loud, very very aggressive, right, And you 67 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: know a lot of people felt very passionately about that. 68 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: You and I kind of exchanged personal perspective on that, 69 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: and I really want to focus in doctor McClary on 70 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: the word yelling. You know, I heard someone say this 71 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: to me when I made a post recently, and I 72 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: used the word yelling, but I kind of prefaced it 73 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: with like quotations like and the person used the term 74 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: coaching voice, and I was like, you know, that's a 75 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: really there is a coaching voice. And I was like, 76 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: that is so much less aggressive than the word yelling. 77 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: Can you talk about yelling, why it is maybe not 78 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: good or what are your thoughts on it when it 79 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: comes to coaching, and you'd sports, sure, Well, I love 80 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: that you started just with the definition, because I mean, 81 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: since you and I have had that exchange about yelling 82 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,720 Speaker 1: or aggressive coaching behavior, I've definitely had that exchange with 83 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:26,799 Speaker 1: other people on Twitter and it always devolves into this 84 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: where some folks are saying, how can you call yelling 85 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: verbal abuse? You know that yelling is just part of coaching, 86 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: and so it sort of lacks a definition of what 87 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: we're even talking about. So I think that's an important 88 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: place to start. And like, I think we can both 89 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: admit we don't mean yelling like exhorting in a friendly way, 90 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: like cheering on loudly, right, that's kind of not what 91 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: we're talking about. We're talking about probably some gray area 92 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: where there's an intensity, you know, driven by excitement or 93 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: driven by the moment, but that it could come it 94 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: could be perceived as aggressive, right, And that that can 95 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: often tip over from some coaches into what may be 96 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: allowable to what seems maybe like something that shouldn't be 97 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: allowed in a youth sports context or even in a 98 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: college sports context. So I'd say it's a little bit 99 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: of one of those like you know what when you 100 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: see it, right, like a coach is doing something that 101 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: you're like, m, I don't know if we should be 102 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: treating people that way, right. I think that's the best 103 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: I can do in terms of a definition, But I 104 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: do think it's an important place to start. We're not 105 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: just talking about like cheering in a loud voice. When 106 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about yelling. We're talking about some sort of 107 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: intense aggressiveness that might be out of place when working 108 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: with kids. And I think that there's a place where, 109 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: you know, speaking in a listen. I have six kids, 110 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: and you know, there are quite often times where the 111 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: kids don't respond. I feel like like I could tell 112 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: my kids a hundred times, all right, it's time to 113 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: turn off the TV. Time off, and they literally don't 114 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: look at you until it's like, hey, you know, kind 115 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: of like I got to get your attention type thing. 116 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: Is there such things? And I guess I'm asking you've 117 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: based off of any research you've done, or is there 118 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: any such thing as a healthy fear? Maybe a healthy fear? 119 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: Is that even I don't know possible. That's a great question. 120 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: What I would say is like, that's exactly what that is. 121 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: Is that when you are shouting or being intense, you know, 122 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: in that manner, it's fear based coaching. Right. It's like 123 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to yell or I'm gonna I'm going to 124 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: act in this way because I want you to be 125 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: a little bit of afraid and respond you know, out 126 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: of fear, and so what you're likely going to get 127 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: is maybe a short term response, right, Like if you 128 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: yell at your kids to turn off the TV, probably 129 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: the TV is going to get turned off, But is 130 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: it going to get turned off all the next times 131 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: when you ask nicely? Maybe not. So what we know 132 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: about this, like extrinsic motivation like that especially you know, 133 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: more of a punitive extrinsic motivation, is that it might 134 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: work in the short term, so it might appear effective, 135 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: but in the long term, if you keep using it, 136 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 1: it actually diminishes ineffectiveness and it hinders your relationships. And 137 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: that's what coaching is ultimately about, right, is having these 138 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,119 Speaker 1: the kind of relationships with athletes that you that last 139 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: over time, where you're working together towards an end goal 140 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: and have trust and respect for one another. And so 141 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: anything that's eroding that is not you know, building your 142 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: team or building your relationships with your athletes towards your 143 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: the positive end goal that you want over time. You know, 144 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: it's funny because I often have heard I've interviewed so 145 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: many people, but like I talked to Chipper Jones and 146 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: he was like, one of the great things that he 147 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: learned from different managers. You know Chipper Jones, Hall of 148 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: Fame major League Baseball player for those of you who've 149 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: been on MARS for the last fifty years. He said 150 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: to me, you know, part of being a great coach 151 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: is knowing and I'm not going to give the exact quote. 152 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: I may screw it up, but it's knowing you know 153 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: who needs a pat on the back and who might 154 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: need a foot in the rear, but more importantly, knowing 155 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: when to do both, when's the time and place. But 156 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: like I know, for me from my experience, I responded 157 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: well two coaches who coached me. There were times during 158 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: my athletic career when I was definitely more unsure of 159 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: myself than others. And at those moments where I was 160 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: maybe lacking some confidence or insecure, the last thing I 161 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: needed was like a foot in the rear, like I 162 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: needed to be an arm around my back. So you 163 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: talk about building relationships, like you know what's the best 164 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: way to or what are some ways in which coaches 165 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: can you know know which kids can benefit from maybe 166 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: a more stern approach or more direct not saying yelling 167 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: or aggressive, but I'm saying more sterning the direct versus 168 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: those that you know may need I don't want to 169 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: use the word condled because I feel like that's that's 170 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: negative too. But it's like, you know, may need a 171 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: little bit more love, you know, maybe a little bit 172 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: more like hey, it's all right, you know, build them 173 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: up as opposed to but some kids really respond really 174 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: well to being like more stern. Right. Yeah, I mean 175 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to answer that sort of two ways. I mean, 176 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: first just to say that, like this idea of using 177 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: yelling as sort of tactic I think is an interesting 178 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: one because I think part of the problem is that 179 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: it might be the only tactic a coach has. It 180 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: might be the only tool in their toolbox. And when 181 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: you only have that one tool, you know, for all 182 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Right. 183 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: So coaches, because maybe they don't have training in like 184 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: teaching and learning or pedagogy or youth development or some 185 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: of these other things, they don't necessarily know what else 186 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: to use, and so they're using this tool that isn't 187 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: effective in this particular situation. So, you know, for as 188 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: I use this example with my students, I was actually 189 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: just talking with my son about it. I was playing basketball. 190 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: This was a while ago. They're doing a shooting competition 191 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: and his team was just having a lot of trouble. 192 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: They couldn't make all the baskets in a row, and 193 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: the coach just kept yelling at them to compete, to 194 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: try harder. And what he was thinking is I'm not 195 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: trying to miss like I'm trying my best. Something's wrong 196 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: right and in that moment, So when a coach is 197 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: treating everything like it's a motivational problem, often what you 198 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: know they need to do is take a step back 199 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: and say, is this a motivational problem? Maybe this is 200 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: one where they don't actually know how to do this 201 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: skill right, or maybe this is a problem of fatigue. 202 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: You know, they're all sorts of other problems that it 203 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: could be. So I think some of the issues around 204 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: yelling is just an overuse of it as a tactic 205 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: when other tactics might be better to get people where 206 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: you want them to go. Well, And then that didn't 207 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: like directly answer your question. But I guess the other 208 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: thing I would say about like when to use it 209 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: and who to use it on is I just think, 210 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: like you know, at most stages of sports, I think 211 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: we want to think more about how to keep more 212 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: kids playing for as long as possible as opposed to 213 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: weeding them out early, because you know, we do have 214 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: really high rates of attrition for kids from use sports 215 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: around twelve, thirteen, fourteen, So wet on all kids to 216 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: have these great benefits from sports, Like we know that 217 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: you're going to catch more kids if you don't use 218 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: the aggressive tactics, right, Like, maybe there's one or two 219 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: who are going to put up with it, And often 220 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: we end up with this kind of bias that those 221 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: who outlast, right, those who can put up with it, 222 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: stay in sport for longer, and then they're like, see 223 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: it worked for me, the yelling's fine, but what about 224 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, those other ten kids that dropped out of 225 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: that same program. We don't get to hear from them 226 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: because they didn't make it. So I guess I would 227 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: just say, like, yes, maybe when you really get to 228 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: know a kid and you can be tougher on them, 229 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: But if you're working with a group of kids, it's 230 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: better to take attack that's going to keep more of 231 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: them there and build relationships across all of the kids, 232 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: rather than to assume that the ones who like can't 233 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: take it, should drop out anyway. That's a great point, 234 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: and you brought up a few things there, and I 235 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: think most importantly is when I brought the Trent bill 236 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: for I mentioned obviously was a high school football game. 237 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: And there's a massive, massive difference between coaching a high 238 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: school kid versus coaching is seven, eight, nine, ten year old. 239 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: I mean really anything under high school is there's just 240 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: a massive difference. So age appropriateness is first and foremost. 241 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: And you make a great point though, I mean, like, 242 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: you know, you talk about attrition and kids aging out 243 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: of sport or you know there is a you know, 244 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: huge turn Overnet's a whole different topic. I'd love to 245 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: get into here shortly as far as like the whys 246 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: and hows and all that at particular ages. But at 247 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: the same time, it kind of brings me back to 248 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: you know, parenting is hard, you know, helping to keep 249 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: kids attentions hard. But as you were describing the file 250 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: shot thing, it made me think of in baseball when 251 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: people say just throw strikes. I gotta tell you the 252 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: single most annoying thing to hear and I hate this 253 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: to keep your eye on the ball, Like what do 254 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: you think I'm closing my eye, Like I know they're 255 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: they're just like almost reactionary things that you know, people say, 256 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: but it's like, do you have any idea what it's 257 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: like to stand on a mound be trying to throw 258 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: it over the plate and you just can't. It's just 259 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: it's not that easy. So I think times it's important 260 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: for people to hear like it's such a valuable thing. 261 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: For that you said it's not a matter of effort. 262 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: It could be that, hey, I got to step back 263 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: and realize this isn't a motivational thing. Maybe they just 264 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: don't know how to do this properly. And that's where 265 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: as a coach have to be willing to adjust well, 266 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: and that's really hard to do, right, Like, it's a 267 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: lot easier to assume that it's something about effort because 268 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: we kind of think we know how to address that, 269 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: and it also makes it less of our problem. Right, 270 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: If it's like a motivation or a focus or an 271 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: effort thing, we can put that on the kids. And 272 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: if it's one about like teaching and learning, like, okay, 273 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: you know, if I'm watching this picture and I actually 274 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: don't know what the problem is, what am I going 275 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: to say, right, if my technical eye hasn't developed enough 276 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: to be able to say, okay, is it his grip? 277 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: Is it his bottom half? Is it his rotation? Like? 278 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: What is it? Then it's just a lot harder and 279 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: more complicated and more nuanced and than many coaches sort 280 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: of have the training to be able to diagnose. And 281 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: I think that's another part of it. I can't remember 282 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: a few and I talked about this last time, but 283 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: a lot of this is just that coaches don't have training. 284 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 1: They're not required to have training in teaching and learning 285 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: or development or a lot of things that might help 286 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: this situation, and so they come into coaching sort of 287 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: in this apprenticeship model of doing to others what was 288 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: done to them, which sometimes is great and works, but 289 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: other times it just means you just don't have a 290 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: lot of tools in your toolbox. And that's what the 291 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: great thing is I think about coach development and coach 292 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: training is it just gives you a few more tools, 293 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: like a few new ways to think about every problem 294 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: in situation you face, you know, and what your role 295 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: might be in helping, you know, make things get better, 296 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: as opposed to assuming that it's a problem that the 297 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: kids are having. Wow, You're you might hurt some feelings 298 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: with that because you're you're talking about accountability and having 299 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: a look in the mirror, and it's not easy to 300 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: do for me at times, I make a mistake parenting 301 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: all the time. You know. I think it's a good 302 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: thing to tap into in this conversation piece because you're 303 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: you're really involved with grassroots level and you know, recreation sports, 304 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: which gets you know, I don't even like that term, 305 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: Like I don't even like saying wreck, you know, it 306 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: gets such a negative, but it's like, really that is 307 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: where everyone, for the most part, starts. At some point. 308 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: You start at that recreation that hey, we're just gonna 309 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: bring our kids out, and you know, at some point 310 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: that veers off based on skill and all that. But 311 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: most of those coaches are either a guys like myself 312 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: or yourself, or young ladies who who may have played 313 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: and may have not and they want to volunteer and help. 314 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: Or it might just be a mom or dad or grandma, 315 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: grandpa and uncle whoever, who steps up and wants and 316 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: they may not have the sport experience, Like I can 317 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: go coach soccer and I've never played soccer, but I 318 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: would probably I would be okay at organizing it, but 319 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: I don't really know how to teach the fundamentals of soccer. 320 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: So you know, there's a lot of us out there 321 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: who may be voluntary to coach a sport who don't. 322 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: How do you talked about coach training? You talk what 323 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: are some ways in which that you may think it's 324 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: good for parents, because I think that may hold back 325 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: some really great potential youth coaches from wanting to get 326 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: involved because they're afraid that their lack of experience, you know, 327 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: they won't be an asset. And I totally think that 328 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: that's that's that's disheartening. I think your comparison to parenting 329 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: is a really good one. I think like, instead of 330 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: thinking that the experience that you need to have to 331 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: be a coach is one about like having the axes 332 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: and o's, it's really one about like how to relate 333 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: to kids. And you know, if a parent is thinking 334 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: about stepping into this position, a lot of what they 335 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: need to bring is the experience of parenting and you know, 336 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: how do they want their kid to be treated and 337 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: how does their kid learn best? And you know, they 338 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: probably know that they can't sit their kids down and 339 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: give them like a long thirty minute lecture about something 340 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: and expect that they're going to listen and do it. 341 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: But somehow, you know, we see coaches do that on 342 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: the playing field and expect different results. Like people have, 343 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: I think the innate knowledge, especially if they've been parents, 344 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: like bring that sense of building relationship and caring for 345 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: one another and you know, having a good time the 346 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: same way that you want to do with your kids. 347 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: Like that's really what we need at that level of sport. Like, 348 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: as you said, you didn't know soccer, but you know 349 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: enough about soccer to help some seven and eight year 350 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: olds have a great experience playing soccer, right, Like we 351 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: always talk about in our programs that what you need 352 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: to know in coaching like XS and o's are a 353 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: really small flivver of that. I went from coaching like 354 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: elite level rowing to coaching little league baseball, and I 355 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: feel like I had, you know, ninety percent of the 356 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: skills that I needed to be able to do it. 357 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: My baseball diagnostic skills were not great and I had 358 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: to develop, you know, a technical eye for what I 359 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: was looking at. But like I could do that better 360 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: through YouTube, than I could learn the sort of basics 361 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: of how you relate to kids and people and how 362 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: you structure a practice. Right, Like, that's the stuff that 363 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: I that I already knew how to do. So the 364 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: technical stuff is easier to learn than the relational stuff. 365 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: I think, And I always say, especially especially at the 366 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: you know, if you're talking about preventing kids from wanting 367 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: to drop out, I always say, you can grade yourself. 368 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: And I didn't come up with this, but it's really 369 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: how I grade my own performance as a coach. Is 370 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: how many kids want to continue to play sport? And 371 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: I feel like you can do that by having kids 372 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: have a great time. That you could teach them, you know, 373 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: the fundamentals and teach them obviously the athletic skills specific 374 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: stuff according to that sport, But I think what's going 375 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:27,959 Speaker 1: to make them want to play again the next year? 376 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: Did they have a good time? Right? Obviously they learn, 377 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 1: did they get better? Did they improve? Did they feel 378 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: like they became part of something bigger than themselves? Did 379 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: they feel like when they got to the ball field 380 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: of the soccer field, the wrestling, you know, workout room, 381 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: do they feel like they're going there for a greater 382 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: purpose and positivity. And you know, if they're having a 383 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: bad day at school or whatever, do they get relief 384 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: coming there. I think those are the things as coaches, 385 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: you know, we need to think about, Like it's not 386 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: all about wins and losses, is about if my kids 387 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: are coming here with enthusiasm, Well, then all of a sudden, 388 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: I think as a coach, all we're doing is trying 389 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: to It's like a teacher, you're trying to create the 390 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: best environment possible for your kids to have success. And 391 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: you know, depending on how they grasp it the time 392 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: frame and we'll dictate, you know, maybe their progression from 393 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: a skill set or sports specific perspective. But at the 394 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: end of the day, if you create that environment that 395 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: allows them to kind of feel free to explore and 396 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: to to to be risky, right to try things without 397 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: the fear of you know, embarrassment of failure. I think 398 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: that's how us coaches should be critical of our own 399 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: successes or failures, is if we're creating an environment. Do 400 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: you what are your thoughts on that? I love so 401 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: many of the words that you just use, you know, 402 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: like basically you just describe psychological safety, right kids, you know, 403 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: being willing to show up and try hard, which definitely 404 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: means taking risks and failing and knowing that that's going 405 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: to be okay, and being willing to show up and 406 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: be like one hundred percent like authentically themselves and know 407 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: that that's going to be accepted. And when when you 408 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: think about that, you can see where back to the yell, 409 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: where that doesn't necessarily overlay with those those kind of goals, 410 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: with the psychological safety, with this idea of it's okay 411 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: to take a risk, because if you're worried that there 412 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: might be some explosiveness or some reactivity to mistakes, you're 413 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: not going to be free to problem solve and be 414 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 1: creative and try things out right. Even if the intention 415 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: of that yelling isn't about limiting you, anything that spear 416 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: based will limit you. And so I definitely do want 417 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: to say, like, I know a lot of what I 418 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: said was about, you know, how we would work with kids, 419 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: but I still think this applies in the high school 420 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: and college years as well. I mean, I think when 421 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: you and I talked last, I told you I can't 422 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: tell you how many college student athletes I get into 423 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: my master's degree program. Who tell me about sort of 424 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: emotionally abusive experiences they've had in college, with things like 425 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,239 Speaker 1: coaches saying like, you need to be worried. When I 426 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: stop yelling at you, that's when you need to be worried, 427 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: and you know them being like, oh, okay, yelling's good, 428 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 1: Like I'm supposed to think that's good. That's just like 429 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: a way to keep a person, kid or adult in 430 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: a like flight or fight mode all the time right, 431 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: completely anxious. So it's just to say that I think 432 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: this apply is broadly to kids and too high school 433 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: and collegiate athletes as well. When we come back, Julie 434 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: and I discuss mental health and young athletes and why 435 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: the best coaches are self aware. Where we left off, 436 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 1: Julie and I were about to talk about creating a safe, 437 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: inclusive space for young athletes and why communities need to 438 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: reinvest in accessible youth sports opportunities. So as you as 439 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,199 Speaker 1: you talk with you know college age, and you know 440 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: older right, and you know older than eighteen, you know 441 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: young adults right our borderline, you know adults, young adults 442 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: certainly um mental health is something that is that is 443 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 1: on the forefront. You know, people are becoming more vulnerable, 444 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: and you know, I applaud a lot of you know, 445 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: great athletes and professionals that are out there right now 446 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: kind of not being afraid to share on the those things. 447 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: And I hear all the time from college coaches, doctor McClary, 448 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: that you know, more than any other time in their careers, 449 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: they're having to you know, have mental health experts or 450 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 1: you know, mental coaches like this whole it's unlocking this 451 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: whole other side self belief and positive self talk and 452 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: all these different things. It's more than ever. Do you 453 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: think it's it's from your I don't know if you 454 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: have any research based on this. Do you think it's 455 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: just a sign of the times. You think it's just 456 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: that we've been behind the eight ball, or do you 457 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: think it's just someone somewhere, you know, felt the need 458 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,479 Speaker 1: to talk about it, you know, maybe it's Michael Phelps, 459 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: maybe it's Simone Baus, whoever it's opening the fluggage. Or 460 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: do you think that you know that that coaching or 461 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: sport has from a youth level become more stress like 462 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: literally become more stressful in causing this. I think you 463 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: had a lot of reasons in there, and I sort 464 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: of think yes to all of them. I mean, I'll 465 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: start with the the ecosystem, Um, I think yes. I 466 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,479 Speaker 1: think there is a lot of evidence that like early 467 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: specialization and particularly early identification with your sport is something 468 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: that produces anxiety and depression in the long run, because 469 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: then when you are injured or you're having difficulties with 470 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: your sport, your whole identity is threatened. Right, it's undermining 471 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: who you are as a person. And so that that 472 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: ecosystem piece of the early identification early specialization, like one 473 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: sport all the time means that's who you are, and 474 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: so if who you are is not going well on 475 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: the court or in the pool or whatever, then that's 476 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: really like a foundational block of your personhood is sort 477 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: of taken away. And I think that is definitely part 478 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: of the issue. I think probably, like you also said, 479 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: it's always been there, we just haven't talked about it. 480 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to say. Again, this sort of 481 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: like survivor's bias, Like maybe some folks who couldn't handle, 482 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: like had mental health issues, were not able to stay 483 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: in sports, and we didn't get to hear from them. 484 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: And now those folks are able to speak up and 485 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: get the help they need and stay in sport in 486 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 1: that way. It's really great. And I think there are 487 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: a lot of role models out there you named Simone 488 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: Biles and Michael Phelps and you know, Kevin Love who 489 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: are sort of talking about it and giving us all 490 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: the tools that we need to have conversations with our athletes. 491 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,959 Speaker 1: And you know, I think about I do a lot 492 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: of coach training, and mental health comes up a lot 493 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: as a training. As you said that coaches really feel 494 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: like they need and I think coaches do need to 495 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: understand sort of what their role is and what they 496 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 1: can do and who they can refer to and what 497 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: resources are available for kids in their schools or in 498 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: their communities. But I also do think coaches can think 499 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: about their own coaching becoming like safer places for kids 500 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: but you know, physically and psychologically, and that that part 501 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: of their role is to make as you describe before, 502 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: make their sport environment, you know, as safe and supportive 503 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: as it possibly can be. That's a really important role 504 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: that they can play. And that goes back to you 505 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: know the premise of what we started this with is 506 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: like for most kids, that's going to be not yelling. 507 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: Like if we want to kind of create an environment 508 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: that keeps people feeling good and safe. Especially I think, 509 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: you know, I skipped over this. I do think this 510 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: is a generation of kids who have experienced things that 511 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: most of us can barely fathom. I mean, whether you 512 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: know it's coming out of the pandemic, still having grown 513 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: up with social media. I think all of those things 514 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: are contributors, and we just need to make space for 515 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,719 Speaker 1: them and their particular needs at this time. Actually, who 516 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: did I listen to um Tree Beekman's She's at like 517 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: University of Florida. I think she talks a lot about culture, 518 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: but also about gen Z, and she talked about them 519 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: as a group. They're sort of missing relational reps, like 520 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: they've just had less social interactions. And so part of 521 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: our tab as a coach with that with this generation 522 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: is to help them get those reps and to help 523 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: them build relationships with adults and with each other in 524 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: a way that maybe we haven't had to do before 525 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 1: with other generations. Well, I know that my wife and 526 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: I like we make our kids call like their grandma 527 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: and grandpa, their aunts and uncle, like we make you know, 528 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: because they're so used to just you know, texting, you know, 529 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: I text text text that. We're like, no, you're gonna 530 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: get on the phone, like you've got to learn how 531 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: to speak. Um, you know, you gotta learn. Whereas you know, 532 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: you and I we were I was dialing rotary phones. Um, 533 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: you know I still remember AOL and you know the 534 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: beep and beep. So I mean, like at times I 535 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 1: think about but it's really not that long ago. But 536 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: it's like how quickly things So you're right, all like, 537 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: certainly my kids have all come up in it's what 538 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: they know, and we're the ones playing catch up um 539 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: in many ways, So I don't think we taken it. 540 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: I think we I don't think at times we give enough. 541 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: Probably I don't want to say sympathy, but you know, 542 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: use the word space to like realize, like times have 543 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: changed and we're the ones who are trying to play 544 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 1: ketchup and our kids know what they've grown up in. 545 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: And I'm curious for your thoughts on this. I often 546 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: see people who are advocates for youth sports and they're 547 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: trying their best to do work, but they they wanted 548 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: to go back to the I'm sorry it bothers me. 549 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: Want to hear people say we need to go back 550 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: to sand lot, and I'm like, what sand lot? Like? 551 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: We don't go back in time. It's a twenty billion 552 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 1: dollar industry and it's forecasted. I guess to like triple like, 553 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: it's not going backwards. Knowing the space we're in now, 554 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 1: if you could blow it up, I want to say, 555 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: blow it up. If you can use the circumstances that 556 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: we're the ecosystem that we have now and say, Okay, 557 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,479 Speaker 1: here's what we have. We have businesses, we have all 558 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: this thing. It's a travel industry. It is not just 559 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: a sand lot. What would you do to make things 560 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: go in a better direction that you think is a 561 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: better direction knowing that we're not going back in time. 562 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: That's a tough question. I guess I would say that 563 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: it is going to take some sort of reinvestment in 564 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: a community, like looking at access to sport as a 565 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: public good right that like, it's something that kids and 566 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: families deserve and it isn't something that is just for 567 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: the wealthy. And I think that's what we've gotten away from, 568 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: and so how can we infuse that back in our 569 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: understanding of what a community looks like that it's like 570 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: a space where kids have opportunity to be on teams 571 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: and be physically active on their own terms and their 572 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: own communities. And I think it's going to take schools 573 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: and parks and rec and you know, all of our 574 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 1: public agencies to decide that this is a commitment that 575 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: we got away from that we need to get back to. 576 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: And I think some of the best examples I see 577 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: of that are you know, in Tacoma, Washington here where 578 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: I'm from, the Parks and Rec Department has a relationship 579 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: with the school district and they do all of their 580 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: sports programming directly in the elementary schools, so no kid 581 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: has to travel anywhere, like no one has to drive them. 582 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: It happens at school, right And I know that there's 583 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: some other blanking on who's doing this right now, but 584 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: there's been some great investments in like middle school sports, 585 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: which is where we lose everybody. How can we use 586 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: like the assets, the fields, the facilities, the spaces that 587 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: we already have where kids are to bring back the 588 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: kind of programming. And that's also if we want our 589 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: elected officials to do it, like we all have to 590 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: collectively decide that it's something that we want to advocate for. 591 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: And I think that's where, you know, we have to 592 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: find some kind of common ground and believe that it's 593 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: something all kids deserve and start that kind of messaging 594 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: so that we can get the funding and the policies 595 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: that would make that happen, because I don't. I don't 596 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: think as much as I would like to say we 597 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: want to sort of dismantle the pay to play system, 598 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: I don't. I think you're right, it's not going to 599 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: like dismantle itself or be dismantled, but we can build 600 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: other structures that create spaces for everybody. And that's what's 601 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: gone away unfortunately. It's it's almost like youth sports has 602 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: become you know, you can look at Major League Baseball 603 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: and say, well, the minor league system is the you know, 604 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: it's the feeding into the professional sports. I'm looking at 605 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: it and and outgoing, Well, it starts, you know, the minor 606 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: leagues almost starting new sport. Like it's like everything is. 607 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: It's it's like it's all about recruiting, right, So you're 608 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: ten years old, you're trying what am I gonna be 609 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: able to do so that in two years I could 610 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: be at this tournament? Because then when I get to 611 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: high school, I gotta be ranked here to go here. 612 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: So the privatization, the professionalization, the money that's there, it's 613 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I almost, I almost I thought about this. 614 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, I think you're gonna need some sort of regulation, 615 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: like some sort of government regulation to come in and 616 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: like put the because it is important. It is a 617 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: physical health issue, it is a mental health issue. It 618 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: is all these things. So it's almost like we gotta 619 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: slap handcuffs not to say that people can't make a living, 620 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: because there is a need for certain you know, for 621 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: God's sakes, there's everywhere I look, there's a new you know, 622 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: everyone that hears of IMG Academy, when now there's like 623 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: different there's always different baseball schools. When I was fourteen 624 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: years old, I went to Cuba with an all star 625 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: team to play, you know, to play against Cuban baseball players. 626 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: And we played like seven games and we got destroyed. 627 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: It was a great experience. But I remember going to 628 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: we went and worked out each town or city we 629 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: went to, we played against the local team. There was 630 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: like six thousand people the game. It was crazy, But 631 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: like we went in practiced and worked out with the team. 632 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: We played against and their coaches and they were at 633 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: a sports school. The kids that were there for fencing, 634 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: they're there for all these different sports, for baseball, for 635 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: this one, for that one. I'm like, this is in 636 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: ninety four. I'm like, these kids are going to school. 637 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: But now I feel like here in the States, like 638 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: that is what you're seeing Now, You're you're seeing schools, 639 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: high schools, you know, for sports specific. So it's not 640 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: go to wait. So like I guess, yeah, on the regulations, 641 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I don't usually start there 642 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: because I think it's sort of a people feel like 643 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: it's an extreme position. But I think that if we 644 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: truly believe that, you know, access to sport shouldn't be 645 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: only for the folks who can afford it, then we 646 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: need to do something that big and bold, which is 647 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: to say, like we need to regulate you sports. I 648 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: a hundred percent agree with that. I'm not fully sure 649 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: what it would look like. I think one place to 650 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: start might be with coaching and coach certification, and I'm 651 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: working right now the Washington Interscholastic Activities Association, which is 652 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: the governing body of sport in Washington State, and they 653 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: are going to be mandating coach training for all school 654 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,719 Speaker 1: based coaches that is focused on youth development and some 655 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: of the foundational ideas that we've talked about today. And 656 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: I think that's an amazing start. I think it'll I 657 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: think it will be the first in the country, the 658 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: first state in the country to require that type of 659 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: foundational coach training of a lot all they all require 660 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: concussion training, First aid CPR, but I think that's one 661 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: place where we can start to move things and shift 662 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: a little bit. It's going to take those bigger organizations 663 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: to have that same vision that that's the role that 664 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: they can play, is to help shift the sports culture 665 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: and shift the sports ecosystem by training coaches and by 666 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: creating regulations and legislation. That's going to kind of write 667 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: the ship. I mean, because at the end of the day, 668 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: you can't go work in finance in most cases without 669 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: having a license. You can't become a lawyer without having 670 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: a license. You can't become a doctor without certain qualifications. 671 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: I mean, half the day occupations in the United States, 672 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: you need to have some there's like some sort of 673 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: barrier ventry. But if I just want to go start 674 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: a private hitting facility, I can just say it, and 675 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: if I'm a great salesperson or marketer, I can get 676 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: people to come there and charging whatever the hell they're 677 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: willing to pay me. Absolutely, And while you're supposed to 678 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: have people background checked, like that's not well regulated either. 679 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: So I do think it also comes back to a 680 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: safety issue. I mean, we do have issues with safeguarding 681 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: kids in sports. There are just too many really unfortunate 682 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: stories about folks using egregious methods, you know, and abusive 683 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: methods with kids. And that would be one place that 684 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: you know, we could start educating folks about that is, 685 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: is through some required certification. But and I do think 686 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,479 Speaker 1: like that's again to just go back to the beginning 687 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: of our conversation. That's why this sort of yelling thing 688 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: is so problematic is because it is a slippery slope, 689 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: and we often do see the coaches that are willing 690 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: to push the limits around there, you know, the way 691 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: they verbally treat their kids, Like those are the ones 692 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: who you know, slide on that slippery slope to treating 693 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 1: kids in a problematic ways you know, in other areas. 694 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: And so I just think it's like we need to 695 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: really set like a really hard line that says like 696 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: this is the way that kids deserve to be treated, 697 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: and they have a bill of rights in sports, and 698 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: their rights are to be respected and you know, treated 699 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: in a humane way at all in all parts of 700 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: their sport experience. And I think sometimes we forget that 701 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: and we think we have the answers and the tactics 702 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: and that you know, the way adults are treated should 703 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: be the same way kids are treated, and it's just 704 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: not true. We need to create a different paradigm that 705 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: puts them at the center and respect you know, who 706 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: they are in their humanity and what their needs are. 707 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: Doctor Julie McClary, I freaking love this. This is awesome. 708 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough. Can you tell everyone where 709 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: to find you and and you know, maybe maybe be 710 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: able to find more information on what you do and 711 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: how you're doing it. Yeah. I mean my Twitter, which 712 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: is where I met you, is at you dub coaching Lab, 713 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 1: so you w Coaching Lab and I think that's the 714 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: best place to find me. But the center I work 715 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: for is the University of Washington Center for Leadership in Athletics, 716 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,879 Speaker 1: so you could also check them out with some great 717 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: coach training programs. And graduate program there folks want to 718 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: learn more about the stuff. So I appreciate you, you know, 719 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: coming back to me, and I think it was pretty 720 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: cool how we kind of met on Twitter on opposite 721 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: sides of this issue, and you reached out to learn 722 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: more and we've been able to have some some good conversations. 723 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: So I appreciate it. Yeah, we definitely, you know, it 724 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: was funny because I'm glad you brought it up. And 725 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: I love it because I try. You know, I have 726 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 1: learned so much by I say, being an advocate, but 727 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: but sharing mine and I think it's so important and 728 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: where you know, a lot of adults, Quite frankly, I 729 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: lose interest in people's messaging when they don't have an 730 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: open mind. It's like if my way or the highway, 731 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: and I feel like I am selling myself short to 732 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 1: think I have all the answers. I think I'm selling 733 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: myself short if I think that you don't have your 734 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 1: own experience and I can't learn from it. And quite frankly, 735 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: like you know, it's important to have these conversations because 736 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I think we have 737 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: a way more in common than we don't have in common. 738 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: When it comes particularly to the passion around our kids 739 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: and playing sports and youth sports in general. So thank you, 740 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: and I am so grateful that we were able to 741 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: connect again and I appreciate you bringing that up. I 742 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: have just one more thing I want to add about that, 743 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 1: which is, like you mentioned coaches having self awareness before, 744 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,439 Speaker 1: and I think that's just what you're speaking to there, 745 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: is like having self awareness to like think about, you know, 746 00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: why we hold the views that we hold. And I 747 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 1: think self awareness is just is the key to kind 748 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: of solving some of these issues around coaching. And I 749 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: would say that I think a lot of a lot 750 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: of yelling, a lot of coach behavior is just like 751 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,800 Speaker 1: lack of emotional regulation. And coaches get excited and sports 752 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: are really exciting, you know, they just and sometimes that 753 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: comes out in a way that is not the most 754 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: filtered for the audience that they're working with. And like 755 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: just to be able to see that and instead of 756 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: saying to kids, like, you know, I'm just telling because 757 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: I care about you and you're just excited and in 758 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,319 Speaker 1: the moment, and so that's what I can do and 759 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 1: you should appreciate that and you should like that. We 760 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: need to listen to kids and say, well, maybe that 761 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,240 Speaker 1: maybe they don't like that, and maybe I could regulate 762 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: my emotions and like come with a different message, you know, 763 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 1: and see if I can find a different space to 764 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,839 Speaker 1: coach from that might suit them better. So I think 765 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: self awareness is just a really important takeaway message. Great point. 766 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: Great ending. I just can't thank you enough for coming 767 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: on sharing you really we're going to do this, but 768 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: we can spend a lot more time on here and 769 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: we'll definitely do it again. All right, great, thanks so much. 770 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: That's doctor Julie McCleary, professor at the University of Washington 771 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: and longtime youth sports advocate. Thanks for listening to the 772 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,439 Speaker 1: Reform Sports Project podcast. I'm Nick Boncourt and our goal 773 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: is to restore a healthy balance and perspective in all 774 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,839 Speaker 1: areas of sports through education and advocacy. For updates, please 775 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or check out 776 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,720 Speaker 1: our website by searching for the Reform Sports Project.