WEBVTT - Lights Out

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<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>In April of twenty twenty, we were all talking about

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<v Speaker 2>what we were going to buy with our twelve hundred

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<v Speaker 2>dollars COVID stimulus check. I vaguely recall making the decision

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<v Speaker 2>to go ahead and bite the bullet and buy a toaster.

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<v Speaker 2>No more preheating the whole oven, just a toast of

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<v Speaker 2>little bread in my house. Life's too short not to

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<v Speaker 2>enjoy a crisp pot sandwich from time to time, and

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<v Speaker 2>starting to feel like life might be even shorter. It

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<v Speaker 2>was a fraud time. We all coped differently, but about

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<v Speaker 2>three hundred miles south of where I was obsessively reading

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<v Speaker 2>reviews for small appliances, an unnamed witness was chatting with

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<v Speaker 2>an acquaintance at Camp La June. He was thinking about

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<v Speaker 2>using his check to buy a handgun at a nearby

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<v Speaker 2>store in Jacksonville, North Carolina, and he was far from

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<v Speaker 2>the only one with this idea. The FBI reported a

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<v Speaker 2>twenty percent increase in gun sales over the previous year

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<v Speaker 2>during those early months of the pandemic. I guess when

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<v Speaker 2>Americans get scared, they turn to guns, even when that

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't really make any sense. But everybody wanted a gun

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<v Speaker 2>even beyond the average American lust for guns. So lines

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<v Speaker 2>were long, and prices were high, and paperwork was backlocked.

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<v Speaker 2>The acquaintance our unnamed witness was talking to about the purchase.

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<v Speaker 1>Said, oh, no, you don't want to do that.

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<v Speaker 2>I can get you a great deal in a Glocken

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen with no serial number for just fifteen hundred dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>You'll even get a silencer. Before discussing the details of

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<v Speaker 2>the deal, Liam Collins placed his phone inside of the microwave.

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<v Speaker 2>For those of you who only have normal friends and

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<v Speaker 2>have never been asked to put your cell phone in

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<v Speaker 2>the microwave, the idea is that the appliance acts as

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<v Speaker 2>a Faraday cage, preventing the device from transmitting a signal

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<v Speaker 2>of any kind, so it can't be used to monitor

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<v Speaker 2>a conversation you don't want the government to know about.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure this technique is terribly worthwhile.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, the government can get a warrant to track

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<v Speaker 2>your phone to WI or tap your phone, but I've

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<v Speaker 2>never read a case where a warrant was obtained to

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<v Speaker 2>use someone's cell phone as a passive listening device. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>sure it's possible, I just don't know how likely it

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<v Speaker 2>is that the government is using your phone this way,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's a common enough idea in certain circles. And

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<v Speaker 2>with the spone safely stowed in the microwave, William Collins

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<v Speaker 2>started cooking something a little hotter than ramen. We opened

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<v Speaker 2>the door to the investigation that revealed a neo Nazi

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<v Speaker 2>terror plot to kick off a race war. I'm Molly Conger,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is a weird blue guys. I usually start

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<v Speaker 2>the process of sorting out a story by making a timeline.

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<v Speaker 2>Chronological order isn't always the best way to tell a story,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's the best way I found to understand how

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<v Speaker 2>the pieces fit together so I can try to make

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<v Speaker 2>sense of it for us. I lay out every scrap

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<v Speaker 2>of information I can find in the court record and

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<v Speaker 2>existing reporting by other journalists, and all the odds and

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<v Speaker 2>ends I can scrape together from the vast corners of

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<v Speaker 2>the Internet. After I published a piece last year about

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<v Speaker 2>a different weird little guy, he actually reached out to

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<v Speaker 2>a journalist I know who had an existing source relationship

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<v Speaker 2>with him and asked.

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<v Speaker 1>How did she know that thing about my grandmother? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>it's my job to know.

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<v Speaker 2>I spent an entire day finding county court records for

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<v Speaker 2>everyone you've ever met, and read a few dozen issues

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<v Speaker 2>of your hometown newspaper from the early nineties. I'm kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a weird little guy too, I guess, and I

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<v Speaker 2>can get a little carried away. I mean, I'm deeply

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<v Speaker 2>committed to placing everything in its proper context, but sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>I've got four generations of a guy's family tree mapped out.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm looking at his cousin's wedding photos on Instagram, and

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<v Speaker 2>I've got a copy of his grandparents marriage license saved

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<v Speaker 2>to my desktop, and I realize I've lost the plot

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<v Speaker 2>a little. In this case really complicated my process. With

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<v Speaker 2>five defendants, three superseding indictments, and four years in court,

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<v Speaker 2>it's hard to find a single beginning for the timeline.

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<v Speaker 2>So than digging myself into a hole I can't get

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<v Speaker 2>back out of, let's just start in twenty fifteen, Shortly

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<v Speaker 2>before these five men's lives began to intertwine. In twenty fifteen,

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<v Speaker 2>Liam Jan Montgomery Collins, Justin Wade Hermansen, and Joseph Marino

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<v Speaker 2>were all still in high school. Marino would soon have

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<v Speaker 2>a chance encounter with a National Guard recruiter in his

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<v Speaker 2>high school cafeteria. Collins was doing a little modeling, walking

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<v Speaker 2>in a New York Fashion Week show for the Japanese

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<v Speaker 2>designer North Hooleywood. The summer before his junior year, Marine

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<v Speaker 2>Lance Corporal Jordan Duncan was living in Latvia studying Russian

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<v Speaker 2>at the Defense Language Institute's Foreign Language Center, and Paul

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<v Speaker 2>James Kreischuk Junior, not to be confused with his father,

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<v Speaker 2>Paul Senior, a retired Suffolk County police officer, started more

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<v Speaker 2>than fifty pornographic films that year, mostly in a genre

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<v Speaker 2>called facial abuse, despite telling an industry publication the year

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<v Speaker 2>before that he was getting out of the business, calling

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<v Speaker 2>the work he did in facial abuse the most degrading

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<v Speaker 2>job he'd ever done. Now, I'm not here to judge

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<v Speaker 2>anybody's private life. I mean, beyond the premise of the show,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, which is kind of me passing some judgement of.

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<v Speaker 1>These guys' lives.

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<v Speaker 2>But as far as consensual adult film work, as long

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<v Speaker 2>as everyone's safe and doing work they've chosen to do,

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<v Speaker 2>that's not my business. That's not what we're here to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out. But personally, I'm not very knowledgeable about pornography.

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<v Speaker 2>I fear I may be outing myself as kind of

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<v Speaker 2>apprude here, but I wanted to figure out if this

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<v Speaker 2>was actually as gross as it sounds, or if it

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<v Speaker 2>just seemed gross to me because it's not my cup

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<v Speaker 2>of tea. So I had to do some research here

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<v Speaker 2>that I really wish I had not. I read a

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<v Speaker 2>few industry blogs, some forums for both performers and consumers,

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<v Speaker 2>some interviews with performers who worked in the genre and

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<v Speaker 2>with this particular studio.

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<v Speaker 1>And some legal documents.

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<v Speaker 2>According to a definition used by the examining attorney in

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<v Speaker 2>an official decision by the US Trademark and Patent Office

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<v Speaker 2>denying a trademark application, the term facial abuse is the

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<v Speaker 2>act of sexually humiliating your partner by abusing and degrading

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<v Speaker 2>her face during rough oral sex, by holding her head

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<v Speaker 2>deep on your genitalia, slapping her face, and talking to

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<v Speaker 2>her in a degrading manner during the process. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>the nicest way to describe what I saw. The company

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<v Speaker 2>seeking that trademark. D and D Media is listed as

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<v Speaker 2>the production company behind one hundred and ninety two of

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<v Speaker 2>the three hundred and eighty five credits listed on the

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<v Speaker 2>Internet Adult Film Database profile for Polly Harker, the alias Kraishak,

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<v Speaker 2>performed under for thirteen years. I regret every second I

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<v Speaker 2>spent finding out more about this. I know, I said

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<v Speaker 2>I'd like to know everything about a guy before I

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<v Speaker 2>start writing, but I don't actually need to see him naked,

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<v Speaker 2>and I really didn't expect to see him pour a

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<v Speaker 2>dog bowl full of a woman's own vomit over her face.

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<v Speaker 2>This is, unfortunately not the first time my research has

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<v Speaker 2>led me to see aspiring terrorist's penis, but it is,

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<v Speaker 2>without a doubt, the worst. Again, I don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>put my own moral judgment on this aspect of things.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying that a guy with a kink that

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<v Speaker 2>makes my stomach hurt is necessarily evil. So I really

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<v Speaker 2>did some extra digging here, and I found several women

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<v Speaker 2>who had done work with dn E Media and with

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<v Speaker 2>Paul Kreischuk specifically. I had really hoped. As I was

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<v Speaker 2>gritting my teeth through the videos, I found that the

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<v Speaker 2>women were just phenomenal actors that they were putting on

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<v Speaker 2>a convincing show of being terrified of being unable to breathe.

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<v Speaker 2>I understand there's a market for that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I hoped that they'd all agreed ahead of time that

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<v Speaker 2>she would only be pretending to sob and what looked

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<v Speaker 2>like her desperately trying to get the man to stop

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<v Speaker 2>was only scripted drama. And maybe that's the case for

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<v Speaker 2>some of the videos, but several women have come forward

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<v Speaker 2>over the years to say that was not their experience

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<v Speaker 2>with D and D media. In twenty eleven, DNE released

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<v Speaker 2>a facial abuse scene between Kreischuk and a woman performing

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<v Speaker 2>under the name Clara Bo on the form Adult DVD Talk.

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<v Speaker 2>Even fans of the genre unsettled, with one user writing

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<v Speaker 2>they were pretty rough on her, even for fa multiple

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<v Speaker 2>and hard slaps to the face, prolonged upside down djays

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<v Speaker 2>both over the shoulder and on the couch, and not

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<v Speaker 2>one but two body slams. I am sad she even

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<v Speaker 2>took it for five minutes, let alone ten. Another user

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<v Speaker 2>responded the editing was weird. They must have had to

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<v Speaker 2>cut a lot of stuff out so it wouldn't look criminal.

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<v Speaker 2>I noticed her eyes were closed for the most part

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<v Speaker 2>of the second half. I wonder if he told her

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<v Speaker 2>to do that to hide the bloodshot eye. She had

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<v Speaker 2>on her blog. Claire herself replied to the thread back

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty eleven, posting, to be honest, I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if I can look at it without dredging up the

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<v Speaker 2>fucked up feelings it gave me. I'm all for some

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<v Speaker 2>rough sex, I was happy with my scene for public disgrace,

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<v Speaker 2>and I can't wait for Princess Donna to get back

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<v Speaker 2>to the USA so I can get it.

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<v Speaker 1>On bound gang bangs.

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<v Speaker 2>But facial abuse was exactly what they say in the

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<v Speaker 2>title abuse with a facial.

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<v Speaker 1>At the end.

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<v Speaker 2>So this isn't just a woman who is regretful about

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<v Speaker 2>her time in the industry or someone who showed up

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<v Speaker 2>to shoot in a genre she was inexperienced with. She's

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<v Speaker 2>shot BDSM and kink content. People are getting hurt for real,

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<v Speaker 2>she wrote in twenty eleven. It's not the same as

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<v Speaker 2>kink or typical BDSM. In twenty twenty three, she spoke

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<v Speaker 2>again about the experience with journalist Paul mulholland. She told

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<v Speaker 2>moholland that there was an agreed upon tap out signal

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<v Speaker 2>she needed to stop for any reason, but when she

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<v Speaker 2>tried to stop the scene, she was ignored. I tapped

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<v Speaker 2>his thighs because I couldn't breathe anymore, and he didn't care.

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<v Speaker 2>He actually grabbed the back of my head and pulled

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<v Speaker 2>me closer, and I had to from kneeling push on

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<v Speaker 2>his thighs, get my feet underneath me, and literally launched

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<v Speaker 2>my entire body weight backward to get off of him.

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<v Speaker 2>They didn't cut this from the video. Paul Kryshut, covered

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<v Speaker 2>in distinctive tattoos, can be seen ignoring BOE's attempt to

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<v Speaker 2>end the scene as the blood vessels in her eyes burst.

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<v Speaker 2>A woman who performs as Felicity Feeline says the videos

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<v Speaker 2>she did for D and E Media are her greatest

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<v Speaker 2>regret of her nine years in the industry, and she's

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<v Speaker 2>made several videos about the violent shoots and the subsequent

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<v Speaker 2>harassment and coercion from the director, though she doesn't name him.

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<v Speaker 2>Both of the credits on her Internet Adult film Database

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<v Speaker 2>profile for DNA shoots are videos starring opposite Kraishuk.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's what their goal is. They want to completely

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<v Speaker 3>ruin a woman on camera, and they will do anything

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<v Speaker 3>in their power legally to do it. Maybe they overstep

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<v Speaker 3>the legal boundaries at points, but that's to be determined

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<v Speaker 3>by someone in law, because I don't want to go there.

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<v Speaker 2>In other videos, I sincerely regret watching Kraishuk chokes and

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<v Speaker 2>slaps a black performer for rating her and calling her

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<v Speaker 2>racial slurs as she sobs if her experience was anything

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<v Speaker 2>like Clara's or Felicity's or any of the other women

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<v Speaker 2>who've come forward about this company not acting. So that's

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<v Speaker 2>who pol was before all of this starts. His last

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<v Speaker 2>pornographic film was released in twenty eighteen, so it seems

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<v Speaker 2>likely he stopped shooting porn in twenty seventeen, which is

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<v Speaker 2>about when he made the career switch to illegally manufacturing

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<v Speaker 2>firearms for guys. He met on a Nazi message board

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty sixteen, when Liam Collins was a senior at

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<v Speaker 2>New Providence High School in a northern New Jersey suburb.

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<v Speaker 2>He started posting on Iron March.

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<v Speaker 1>The forum first.

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<v Speaker 2>Appeared online in twenty eleven, launched by a Russian nationalist

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<v Speaker 2>named Alisher Mukitnadoff, and in its six years online it

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<v Speaker 2>was an incubator for neo Nazi ideology around the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Fascist organizations like National Action in the UK, Adam Waffin,

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<v Speaker 2>and the us Skidas in Lithuania and Antipodian Resistance in

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<v Speaker 2>Australia were born on the forum. These and other organizations

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<v Speaker 2>grew and networked, recruiting online posters into real life terror cells.

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<v Speaker 2>The site disappeared without explanation one day in November twenty seventeen.

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<v Speaker 2>The webmaster for The Daily Stormer at the time, Andrew Ahenheimer,

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<v Speaker 2>perhaps better known as Weave, speculated that there was international

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<v Speaker 2>pressure to take the site offline after an incident in

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<v Speaker 2>Florida earlier that year, Adam Woffin founder Brandon Russell was

0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.480
<v Speaker 2>arrested when police found a stash of explosives and bomb

0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.920
<v Speaker 2>making supplies in his garage. The police were only in

0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.760
<v Speaker 2>his garage because his roommate fellow Adam Woffin member Devin

0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Arthur's and Iron March user, the vice of WULFA, told

0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:30.000
<v Speaker 2>investigators that Russell planned to target infrastructure and synagogues, and

0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.200
<v Speaker 2>Arthur's was only talking to the police because he'd been

0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.400
<v Speaker 2>arrested for murdering their other two roommates, Andrew Onischuk and

0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Jeremy Himmelman, in the apartment the four shared. Now obviously

0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.360
<v Speaker 2>the double murder and the bombing plot are the bigger

0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:45.680
<v Speaker 2>deal here. But do you just want to point out

0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.680
<v Speaker 2>that Devon should have put a little more effort into

0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:51.080
<v Speaker 2>the screening. These guys love costplaying the whole Hitler vibe,

0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.680
<v Speaker 2>using German words in their handles. But if he's one

0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.679
<v Speaker 2>white wolf, it'd be der weis a wolf. If he's

0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:03.600
<v Speaker 2>multiple white wolf wolves, it's device in Vilfa. The vice

0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:08.000
<v Speaker 2>of Volfa isn't anything. I guess it doesn't matter because

0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.199
<v Speaker 2>it'll be twenty five years to life before he logs

0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:14.160
<v Speaker 2>back on. Other former posters on the Terrorism Training for

0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Him believed the Russian government pressured Mukitnadov to take the

0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.080
<v Speaker 2>site offline because users were recruiting and raising money for

0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:24.080
<v Speaker 2>the Ukrainian Nu Nazi paramilitary group Azov Battalion, which is

0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.920
<v Speaker 2>considered a terrorist organization by the Russian government. A twenty

0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:31.240
<v Speaker 2>twenty investigation by the Russian language office of PHOEBC News.

0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't really support that theory.

0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Mkitnadov was still living in Moscow and was never charged

0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:39.920
<v Speaker 2>by the Russian government, something they would presumably do if

0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.440
<v Speaker 2>they felt he was to blame for funding Asov. Both

0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.240
<v Speaker 2>Mukitnadov and a spokesperson for Azov declined to speak with

0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:50.240
<v Speaker 2>reporters from the BBC, so, despite speculation from his fans

0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.439
<v Speaker 2>that he'd been murdered by Russian intelligence agents, he was

0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:55.960
<v Speaker 2>alive enough in twenty twenty to hang up on a reporter.

0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.120
<v Speaker 2>But before the site disappeared, it was a place for

0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.320
<v Speaker 2>lonely Nazis to connect and in September of twenty sixteen,

0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.680
<v Speaker 2>when Liam Collins was starting his senior year of high school,

0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.760
<v Speaker 2>he was already recruiting members for a group project, as

0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:14.000
<v Speaker 2>he called it, as Niez Gooda. He exchanged messages with

0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 2>a user named Panzerlier, a twenty three year old just

0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.040
<v Speaker 2>finishing up a three year stint in the US Army.

0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.200
<v Speaker 2>Colins said he was forming a group that would eventually

0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:25.840
<v Speaker 2>become a paramilitary organization. He planned to join the Marines

0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:27.600
<v Speaker 2>after high school to get the training he would need

0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:29.760
<v Speaker 2>to lead the group, and was looking to recruit members

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:31.440
<v Speaker 2>with military and policing experience.

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.040
<v Speaker 1>I guess Panserliter.

0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.200
<v Speaker 2>Passed the teens Vibe check because he became a member

0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.200
<v Speaker 2>of the Fledgling group. A few years later, when he

0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.200
<v Speaker 2>was outed as an Iron March poster and lost his

0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.680
<v Speaker 2>job at the Lafayette, Indiana Police Department. Joseph Zacharrek would

0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.920
<v Speaker 2>cooperate with federal investigators and testify before the grand jury

0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 2>then indicted Collins. The core group really came together when Collins,

0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.120
<v Speaker 2>as Niezgoda, started corresponding with Paul Kreischach, who was posting

0:14:56.120 --> 0:15:01.200
<v Speaker 2>on Iron March as visions from Patmos. In early twenty seventeen, Collins,

0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.880
<v Speaker 2>still a high school senior, recruited the adult film actor.

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:04.960
<v Speaker 1>To the crew.

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Just a few months later, the growing group took a

0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.800
<v Speaker 2>camping trip together, finally getting offline and meeting in real

0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:13.400
<v Speaker 2>life to discuss their plans for the future. By August,

0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.200
<v Speaker 2>Collins had joined the Marine Corps and moved down to

0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.120
<v Speaker 2>Camp Lea. June, on Iron March, he posted that he

0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.720
<v Speaker 2>had a tight knit crew of x mill and security

0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 2>that he was training with, going on hikes and doing

0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.800
<v Speaker 2>live fire exercises. Collins posted that he couldn't really get

0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.280
<v Speaker 2>into specifics online, writing that it's an inner circle thing,

0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:33.680
<v Speaker 2>but it will serve its purpose when the time comes.

0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:38.640
<v Speaker 2>Think of it as a modern day ss Kryshuck laid

0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.560
<v Speaker 2>out his theory of operations in a post on Iron

0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:41.840
<v Speaker 2>March in early twenty seventeen.

0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.640
<v Speaker 4>First order of business is knocking down the system, mounting

0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:50.040
<v Speaker 4>it and smashing its face until it has been beaten

0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.920
<v Speaker 4>past the point of death. Eventually we will have to

0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.360
<v Speaker 4>bring the rifles out and go to work. We will

0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.920
<v Speaker 4>have to hit the streets and strike as many blows

0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.440
<v Speaker 4>to the remaining power structure as we can. Keep it

0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:04.120
<v Speaker 4>on the ropes, forget the ponds, and go for the knights, kings,

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.000
<v Speaker 4>and queens. Second order of business is the seizing of

0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 4>territory and the Balkanization of North America. Buying property in

0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:15.200
<v Speaker 4>remote areas that are already predominantly white and right leaning,

0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:20.560
<v Speaker 4>networking with locals, training, farming, and stockpiling. Essentially, we are

0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.640
<v Speaker 4>laying the framework for a guerrilla organization and a takeover

0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.520
<v Speaker 4>of local government and industry. Start buying property now in

0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.240
<v Speaker 4>the types of regions mentioned above, and get to work

0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.840
<v Speaker 4>on building your own group. As time goes on in

0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.400
<v Speaker 4>this conflict, we will expand our territories and slowly take

0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.520
<v Speaker 4>back the land that is rightfully ours. As we build

0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.880
<v Speaker 4>our forces in our numbers, we will move into the

0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.920
<v Speaker 4>urban areas and clear them out. This will be a

0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 4>ground we're very reminiscent of Iraq, as we will essentially

0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.200
<v Speaker 4>be facing an insurgent force made up of criminals and

0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:52.520
<v Speaker 4>gang members.

0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:55.600
<v Speaker 1>And he meant it.

0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:58.440
<v Speaker 2>You don't have to give these guys credit for anything,

0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.040
<v Speaker 2>but you can't say he didn't mean it. A lot

0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.520
<v Speaker 2>of guys talk like this online, but they don't all

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.560
<v Speaker 2>start an illegal amateur gunsmithing operation and move to Idaho.

0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.439
<v Speaker 2>It's not entirely clear when Paul Kreischuk started making his

0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.920
<v Speaker 2>own guns. The earliest payment listed across the slew of

0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:17.280
<v Speaker 2>indictments as a transfer from one of his co conspirators,

0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.520
<v Speaker 2>Joseph Marino, to Paul Kreischuk, in September of twenty eighteen.

0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:24.320
<v Speaker 2>The documents don't clearly spell out what that payment was for,

0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.040
<v Speaker 2>but all the other money transfers discussed in the indictments

0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:31.120
<v Speaker 2>are linked to shipments of firearms or their components. Kreishak

0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.480
<v Speaker 2>had recruited Marino to join the group earlier that year.

0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.840
<v Speaker 2>In February of twenty eighteen, according to testimony from John Little,

0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.000
<v Speaker 2>the investigator from the Naval Criminal Investigative Services assigned to

0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.480
<v Speaker 2>this case, Marino had attempted to join Identity Europa, a

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.359
<v Speaker 2>now defunct white supremacist organization earlier that year, so he

0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.240
<v Speaker 2>was clearly shopping around for the right fit, just looking

0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:55.960
<v Speaker 2>for the right Nazi group for his interests. Little's testimony

0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:57.719
<v Speaker 2>doesn't elaborate on this at all, but I did go

0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.080
<v Speaker 2>on a bit of a fishing trip to see what

0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.840
<v Speaker 2>I could find about this my own. He didn't find

0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.399
<v Speaker 2>anything terribly satisfying, but he did find a single message.

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.800
<v Speaker 2>In the discord leaks published by Unicorn Riot in February

0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.399
<v Speaker 2>of twenty eighteen, a user posted in the identity Europa

0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.399
<v Speaker 2>Discord's new member chat, Hey I'm Joseph from New Jersey.

0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.800
<v Speaker 2>My interviewer was aj But a YouTube channel with the

0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.760
<v Speaker 2>same username has playlists that includes several videos of cops

0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.000
<v Speaker 2>getting shot, a genre of video mentioned in the court records.

0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:28.879
<v Speaker 2>Apparently the crew liked to watch things like this as

0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.119
<v Speaker 2>part of their training, preparing to fight police to the

0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.560
<v Speaker 2>death if the time came, and critiquing the way the

0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:37.200
<v Speaker 2>officers reacted to getting shot, saying things like a true

0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:41.159
<v Speaker 2>warrior wouldn't show pain. That YouTube account also added a

0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.720
<v Speaker 2>video to a playlist about how National Guardsmen can prepare

0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.640
<v Speaker 2>for overseas deployment at around the same time that Marino's

0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.120
<v Speaker 2>National Guard unit did deploy to Cutter in twenty nineteen.

0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.359
<v Speaker 2>So I can't tell you with ironclad certainty that the

0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.639
<v Speaker 2>discord post I found is the one the investigator was

0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.240
<v Speaker 2>talking about, but it seems like a pretty solid fit.

0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.119
<v Speaker 2>And I guess Identity EUROPEO wasn't a good fit because

0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:18.960
<v Speaker 2>he never posted there again. But back to the guns,

0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.639
<v Speaker 2>because that's where all of this started. In April of

0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:26.680
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty, investigators with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service NCIS

0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.040
<v Speaker 2>sat down with that confidential witness, the guy who wanted

0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.160
<v Speaker 2>to use his COVID bucks to buy a glock. When

0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Liam Collins tried to persuade him to purchase the weapon

0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.320
<v Speaker 2>from him instead of going to a store in town,

0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Collins showed the potential customer videos of the kinds of

0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.720
<v Speaker 2>equipment he could get. The video showed a man with

0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:47.440
<v Speaker 2>very distinctive tattoos firing a pistol with a homemade silencer.

0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.920
<v Speaker 2>John Little, the NCIS agent, later testified that they wanted

0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:54.440
<v Speaker 2>to find photos of Kryshuk that would show that part

0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:56.560
<v Speaker 2>of his arm to determine if Kraishuk was the man

0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.880
<v Speaker 2>in the video. Obviously they had his driver's license photo,

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.439
<v Speaker 2>but you can't see his tattoos in any of the

0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.199
<v Speaker 2>photos the government already had.

0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:05.840
<v Speaker 1>So he set off to do a little.

0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.800
<v Speaker 2>Open source research online and what he found was Paully Harker.

0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:12.400
<v Speaker 1>So this NCIS.

0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.879
<v Speaker 2>Agent absolutely watched some of the same pornographic videos I

0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.199
<v Speaker 2>had to watch while researching this, and you can probably

0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.160
<v Speaker 2>guess that you can definitely see the tattoos in the video.

0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.439
<v Speaker 2>And given that this initial interview was with NCIS, not

0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.800
<v Speaker 2>the FBI, we can guess that this confidential witness was

0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.760
<v Speaker 2>likely a fellow marine, So credit where credit is due,

0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.399
<v Speaker 2>I guess at least one marine in this story was

0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.560
<v Speaker 2>offered the chance to do crimes of the Nazi and said,

0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:39.760
<v Speaker 2>I think I got to talk to somebody about this

0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:44.880
<v Speaker 2>instead of sign me up. And the NCIS investigators were

0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.640
<v Speaker 2>probably very pleased to hear their new cooperating witness say

0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.480
<v Speaker 2>the name Liam Collins. Just a few months earlier, they'd

0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.880
<v Speaker 2>tried to talk to Collins himself about something else. When

0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.200
<v Speaker 2>the contents of the defunct Iron March forum were leaked

0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.920
<v Speaker 2>online in late twenty nineteen, Collins was quickly identified in

0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 2>the data Newsweek published an article on November eighth, twenty nineteen,

0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:08.160
<v Speaker 2>identifying Collins as an active duty marine whose Iron March

0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.719
<v Speaker 2>posts were riddled with slurs and plans to create his

0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:15.400
<v Speaker 2>own paramilitary force. When NCIS investigators attempted to interview him

0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.040
<v Speaker 2>about the allegations in the article, he asked for an

0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:23.040
<v Speaker 2>attorney and declined to comment. There's no information available about

0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.520
<v Speaker 2>what follow up occurred internally between that November interview and

0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.240
<v Speaker 2>this confidential witness coming forward in April, but I really

0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.840
<v Speaker 2>want to believe that they were developing their own investigation

0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:36.320
<v Speaker 2>into Collins during that time before this gift fell into

0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:41.119
<v Speaker 2>an elapse. Instead of arresting Collins immediately for trying to

0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.080
<v Speaker 2>sell an illegal silencer to this witness, they set up

0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:49.080
<v Speaker 2>a meeting. They needed their cooperating witness to actually buy

0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:52.520
<v Speaker 2>the gun. Offering to sell it to him wasn't enough.

0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:56.800
<v Speaker 2>They needed him on record making the transaction, and so

0:21:56.840 --> 0:21:59.720
<v Speaker 2>on April twenty fourth, twenty twenty, the cooperating witness transferred

0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:02.040
<v Speaker 2>fifty teen hundred dollars provided to him by the government

0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:06.760
<v Speaker 2>to Collins for the pistol and the silencer. Collins told

0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:08.440
<v Speaker 2>the buyer that the money would then be transferred to

0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:10.800
<v Speaker 2>someone he had done many similar deals with, someone he's

0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:13.800
<v Speaker 2>known for years and trusts completely, even showing the witness

0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:16.520
<v Speaker 2>the Venmo account he was sending the money to. The

0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:18.800
<v Speaker 2>Venmo account was under the actual name for the man

0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:23.320
<v Speaker 2>who would fulfill the order, Paul Kreischuk. An affidavit written

0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:25.639
<v Speaker 2>for a search warrant later that summer says investigators were

0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:28.440
<v Speaker 2>then able to follow that money. They went into Kreischuk's

0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:31.240
<v Speaker 2>personal bank account, and he then used that money to

0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:33.919
<v Speaker 2>make several purchases for the materials he'd need to fulfill

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:34.359
<v Speaker 2>the order.

0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Now, I'm not a gun guy.

0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.760
<v Speaker 2>Gun guys are some of the most pedantic little nerds

0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:43.879
<v Speaker 2>on the planet, and so I'm going to say this preemptively.

0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:46.639
<v Speaker 2>I do not want you to explain gun guy stuff

0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.480
<v Speaker 2>to me. I did some research, and I consulted a

0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:51.919
<v Speaker 2>couple of gun guys I know, and this is correct

0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:53.680
<v Speaker 2>enough for us all to make it through the episode.

0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:57.280
<v Speaker 2>One of the things Kreishuk purchased with the government's money

0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:01.040
<v Speaker 2>from this controlled buy was called a solvent trap. If you,

0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:03.520
<v Speaker 2>like me, are not a gun guy, you don't know

0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:06.720
<v Speaker 2>what that is. So I was looking online websites where

0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:08.560
<v Speaker 2>you can buy solvent traps, and the odd copy on

0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:13.080
<v Speaker 2>these websites seems convincing enough. It's a little tube you

0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:14.840
<v Speaker 2>can screw onto the end of your gun when you're

0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:17.879
<v Speaker 2>cleaning it, and its alleged purpose is to collect the

0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:22.000
<v Speaker 2>excess solvent that's used to clean the weapon. So convenient, right,

0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:24.840
<v Speaker 2>But as I read through some of these sites, it

0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:28.639
<v Speaker 2>felt like I was being lied to. If this is

0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:31.760
<v Speaker 2>such a necessary object that everyone needs every time they

0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:35.359
<v Speaker 2>clean their gun, why haven't they always existed? Why have

0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:37.359
<v Speaker 2>I never heard of this being an issue that every

0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:40.080
<v Speaker 2>gun owner is facing every day, big puddles of solvent

0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:42.560
<v Speaker 2>every time you clean your gun. And I feel like

0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:46.359
<v Speaker 2>I've seen people clean guns inside. If this is something

0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:50.800
<v Speaker 2>that makes a large mess with a volatile chemical, surely

0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:54.200
<v Speaker 2>you wouldn't do it inside. So I asked some gun guys,

0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:57.720
<v Speaker 2>it's not a thing. Nobody uses a solvent trap to

0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:00.720
<v Speaker 2>clean a gun. It's a flimsy gus story for an

0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:03.720
<v Speaker 2>object that can be easily modified with minimal skill to

0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:08.960
<v Speaker 2>create a homemade silencer. And silencers are not completely illegal.

0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:13.320
<v Speaker 2>It's very possible to own one legally, but you have

0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:15.680
<v Speaker 2>to do some paperwork and pay some money and wait

0:24:15.720 --> 0:24:19.320
<v Speaker 2>a little while, and then of course the government knows

0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:22.400
<v Speaker 2>you have it, and they are banned at the state level,

0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:24.680
<v Speaker 2>and a handful of states, including New York, New Jersey,

0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:27.399
<v Speaker 2>and Rhode Island, three states where we'll see him making

0:24:27.520 --> 0:24:31.119
<v Speaker 2>or shipping them to. So based on the information they

0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:34.000
<v Speaker 2>got from this controlled buy with their cooperating witness, they

0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:36.960
<v Speaker 2>now know that Liam Collins is selling guns and silencers

0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:39.880
<v Speaker 2>in North Carolina. He's sending that money to Paul Kreyschuk

0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:43.360
<v Speaker 2>and Idaho, and then Kryshuck is doing a little amateur gunsmithing,

0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:46.280
<v Speaker 2>and then he's putting these guns in the mail. And

0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:49.919
<v Speaker 2>now this isn't arts and crafts between friends or small

0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:54.680
<v Speaker 2>business entrepreneurship. That's gun trafficking. And they already know Collins

0:24:54.720 --> 0:24:57.919
<v Speaker 2>was active on Iron March. They've tried asking him about it,

0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:01.520
<v Speaker 2>and the investigation quickly leads them to kreischuk'sccount and the

0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:05.080
<v Speaker 2>Iron March data too, and then to the conversations that

0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:07.720
<v Speaker 2>Collins and Kreishach had been having together about creating a

0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:12.359
<v Speaker 2>modern dass about buying land to the Pacific Northwest, about

0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:15.480
<v Speaker 2>recruiting people with military backgrounds for a coming domestic conflict

0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:20.200
<v Speaker 2>about arming themselves. Kishak had recently moved from New York

0:25:20.200 --> 0:25:23.879
<v Speaker 2>to Idaho, and he's making guns. This plan is already

0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:28.600
<v Speaker 2>in motion. Based on the package they could confirm was

0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:31.840
<v Speaker 2>the result of their controlled buy, investigators discovered that Kreischuk

0:25:31.920 --> 0:25:34.040
<v Speaker 2>was using a fake driver's license with the name Sean

0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Corkoran to rent a private mailbox in Idaho, and their

0:25:37.720 --> 0:25:41.080
<v Speaker 2>cooperating witness was far from the only person receiving packages

0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:45.720
<v Speaker 2>from this Shan Corkoran. Financial records for Collins and Kreishuk

0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:49.280
<v Speaker 2>showed numerous similar transactions involving the pair with apparent buyers,

0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:52.760
<v Speaker 2>many of whom were identifiable as other Iron March posters

0:25:53.280 --> 0:25:58.480
<v Speaker 2>or other active duty Marines. Investigators obtained warrants to intercept

0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:01.040
<v Speaker 2>a trio of packages from that adres in Idaho and

0:26:01.119 --> 0:26:05.320
<v Speaker 2>addressed to another marine in Collins's unit. Inside they found

0:26:05.320 --> 0:26:08.080
<v Speaker 2>a pistol with no serial number and a silencer with

0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:10.879
<v Speaker 2>the parts distributed across the three boxes. I guess so

0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:15.000
<v Speaker 2>it would be less suspicious, I don't know. A few

0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:17.199
<v Speaker 2>days later there was another trio of packages with the

0:26:17.200 --> 0:26:23.119
<v Speaker 2>same contents. Both times, investigators opened the packages, documented their contents,

0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:25.520
<v Speaker 2>packed them back up and.

0:26:25.640 --> 0:26:29.040
<v Speaker 1>Put them back in the mail. So just because you

0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:33.760
<v Speaker 1>haven't been caught doesn't mean you're not caught. Right.

0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:36.600
<v Speaker 2>You see this in a lot of investigations where they

0:26:36.640 --> 0:26:38.840
<v Speaker 2>know exactly what you're doing, and they're watching you do it,

0:26:38.880 --> 0:26:41.760
<v Speaker 2>and they're letting you do it enough times to get

0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:44.800
<v Speaker 2>yourself in deeper trouble. So don't think that just because

0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:48.120
<v Speaker 2>the package with your illegal gun arrived that it's all

0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:51.320
<v Speaker 2>good now. So the packages go back in the mail,

0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:54.040
<v Speaker 2>and then they waited outside the post.

0:26:53.760 --> 0:26:55.320
<v Speaker 1>Office to see who picked them up.

0:26:56.800 --> 0:27:00.400
<v Speaker 2>Physical surveillance showed Justin Hermannson, a marine in Collins unit,

0:27:00.480 --> 0:27:03.760
<v Speaker 2>and another member of this Nazi paramilitary pick up one

0:27:03.760 --> 0:27:07.359
<v Speaker 2>set of those packages. A few days later, when NCIS

0:27:07.400 --> 0:27:10.639
<v Speaker 2>conducted another controlled meat with their cooperating witness, it was

0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Hermanson who arrived to hand over the gun to the buyer.

0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:16.119
<v Speaker 2>So they're kind of dead to rights here on the

0:27:16.119 --> 0:27:20.080
<v Speaker 2>firearm trafficking. Collins and Kraaishak, and to a lesser degree Hermanson,

0:27:20.480 --> 0:27:23.199
<v Speaker 2>have all participated in this scheme to make ship and

0:27:23.280 --> 0:27:27.520
<v Speaker 2>sell these guns and silencers. But now it's becoming clear

0:27:27.560 --> 0:27:31.760
<v Speaker 2>that there's something else going on here. In July Liam

0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Collins bought a plane ticket to fly to Boise. Joseph Morino,

0:27:35.520 --> 0:27:37.560
<v Speaker 2>that National guardsman in New Jersey who had made his

0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:40.760
<v Speaker 2>own transfers directly to Kaishak the year before, bought a

0:27:40.760 --> 0:27:44.480
<v Speaker 2>plane ticket too, and Jordan Duncan, a former Marine who

0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:47.480
<v Speaker 2>had also made several transfers to Kaishak corresponding with packages

0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:50.480
<v Speaker 2>mailed to him and his brother in Texas, was surveilled

0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:54.119
<v Speaker 2>driving from San Antonio to Idaho and unloading a large

0:27:54.200 --> 0:27:57.840
<v Speaker 2>number of very heavy boxes from his car into Kaishuk's garage.

0:27:58.880 --> 0:27:59.600
<v Speaker 1>What are they doing?

0:28:01.119 --> 0:28:03.800
<v Speaker 2>The investigators got a warrant to track Liam Collins's location

0:28:03.880 --> 0:28:06.760
<v Speaker 2>by his cell phone during this trip, but he ultimately

0:28:06.800 --> 0:28:09.960
<v Speaker 2>did not go. This was July twenty, twenty lifetime ago.

0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:13.040
<v Speaker 2>There were pandemic related restrictions for active duty Marines that

0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:17.120
<v Speaker 2>prevented him from traveling, but Joseph Marino, Jordan Duncan, and

0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:22.159
<v Speaker 2>Liam Collins's little brother Tate did make the trip. FBI

0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:25.920
<v Speaker 2>agents surveiled the group when they met in Boise. Photos

0:28:25.920 --> 0:28:27.920
<v Speaker 2>and videos were covered from the men's phones show them

0:28:27.920 --> 0:28:31.200
<v Speaker 2>wearing the skull print half face mask closely associated with

0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Adam Woffen. At the time shooting their guns and posing

0:28:34.359 --> 0:28:38.080
<v Speaker 2>for group photos giving the Nazi salute. During that visit,

0:28:38.120 --> 0:28:40.600
<v Speaker 2>they conducted several live fire training exercises out in the

0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:45.480
<v Speaker 2>middle of nowhere. In August of twenty twenty, investigators installed

0:28:45.480 --> 0:28:47.880
<v Speaker 2>a pole camera outside the post office near Camp La June,

0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:51.320
<v Speaker 2>where Collins and Hermanson were picking up these packages. They

0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:54.280
<v Speaker 2>considered installing a pole camera outside Joseph Marino's home in

0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:57.960
<v Speaker 2>New Jersey, probably to document the deliveries of stolen military

0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:00.600
<v Speaker 2>equipment that Collins was having dropped off by a third party,

0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:03.320
<v Speaker 2>but the lighting was no good and the camera never

0:29:03.360 --> 0:29:07.600
<v Speaker 2>went up. They conducted another controlled by with their cooperating witness,

0:29:08.200 --> 0:29:10.400
<v Speaker 2>this time having the witness purchase a short barreled rifle

0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:13.280
<v Speaker 2>and another silencer and confirming the details of the purchase

0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:16.720
<v Speaker 2>over FaceTime with Collins. They got another warrant to track

0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Liam Collins using his cell phone, and they got warrants

0:29:19.520 --> 0:29:22.280
<v Speaker 2>for the iCloud accounts belonging to Paul Kreischuk, Jordan Duncan,

0:29:22.360 --> 0:29:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Justin Hermanson, Liam Collins, and Tate Collins. Joseph Marino was

0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:29.640
<v Speaker 2>sparing that particular intrusion. The affidavit notes that he was

0:29:29.680 --> 0:29:32.640
<v Speaker 2>a Samsung user, so he did not have an iCloud account,

0:29:34.080 --> 0:29:36.480
<v Speaker 2>And now, unbeknownst to them, they are on a collision

0:29:36.520 --> 0:29:39.520
<v Speaker 2>course with a federal indictment, and at the same time,

0:29:40.040 --> 0:29:43.000
<v Speaker 2>they're ready to move past just mailing each other guns.

0:29:43.960 --> 0:29:47.520
<v Speaker 2>They're ready to move on to the next phase. In August,

0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Jordan Duncan and Paul Kreischuk were chatting about Duncan's upcoming

0:29:50.360 --> 0:29:53.800
<v Speaker 2>move to Boise. Kraischuk tells Duncan to go ahead and

0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:56.480
<v Speaker 2>follow BLM Boise on Instagram because he's been getting a

0:29:56.480 --> 0:30:00.120
<v Speaker 2>lot of really good intelligence from their posts, and Duncan writes,

0:30:00.480 --> 0:30:03.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm like four weeks away from being there. Fam been

0:30:03.080 --> 0:30:04.840
<v Speaker 2>thinking a lot more about stuff you and I need

0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:09.360
<v Speaker 2>to be doing, and Kaishuk tells him playtime is over,

0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:13.000
<v Speaker 2>writing he is looking forward to you getting out here

0:30:13.040 --> 0:30:14.480
<v Speaker 2>so we can get shit done.

0:30:15.840 --> 0:30:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Duncan replies, Yeah, I feel you.

0:30:18.720 --> 0:30:20.520
<v Speaker 2>The closer I get to it, the more I think

0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:22.840
<v Speaker 2>about everything we have to do, and brother, we are

0:30:22.880 --> 0:30:39.720
<v Speaker 2>going to have to move some mountains. In September twenty twenty,

0:30:39.760 --> 0:30:42.040
<v Speaker 2>Jordan Duncan takes a pretty serious pay cut to take

0:30:42.040 --> 0:30:44.400
<v Speaker 2>a job up in Idaho and moves up to Boise

0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:47.880
<v Speaker 2>to be near Kraishuk. Liam Collins is discharged from the

0:30:47.920 --> 0:30:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Marines and sets off on a road trip that includes

0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:52.040
<v Speaker 2>a stop in New Jersey to speak with Joseph Marino

0:30:52.040 --> 0:30:55.960
<v Speaker 2>in person. In October, Justin Hermanson recruits another marine to

0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:59.360
<v Speaker 2>the group. Collins instructs this new member to buy a

0:30:59.360 --> 0:31:02.200
<v Speaker 2>bunch of ten right and explosive that can be ignited

0:31:02.200 --> 0:31:05.800
<v Speaker 2>by shooting at it. Paul Kreischuk was preparing to take

0:31:05.800 --> 0:31:09.280
<v Speaker 2>the entrance exam to become a firefighter in Boise, and

0:31:09.360 --> 0:31:12.200
<v Speaker 2>Liam Collins moves to Idaho, moving in with Jordan Duncan

0:31:12.200 --> 0:31:17.880
<v Speaker 2>and Boise. On October sixteenth, twenty twenty, Joseph Zakerk, that

0:31:17.920 --> 0:31:21.280
<v Speaker 2>police officer in Indiana is publicly identified in the Iron

0:31:21.320 --> 0:31:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Marsh Leaks. He is immediately fired and so just days

0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:29.560
<v Speaker 2>before Jordan Duncan, Liam Collins, and Paul Kreischuk are arrested.

0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:32.440
<v Speaker 2>They don't know they're about to be arrested. They're all

0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:34.880
<v Speaker 2>in the group chat urging Zacharic to just move out

0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:37.120
<v Speaker 2>to Boise to be with them. You know you've lost

0:31:37.160 --> 0:31:39.360
<v Speaker 2>your job, you don't have anything else to do right now.

0:31:39.560 --> 0:31:43.440
<v Speaker 2>Just come on out here with us. But after being

0:31:43.480 --> 0:31:47.480
<v Speaker 2>publicly outed and losing his job, Zachark just wants out altogether.

0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:50.760
<v Speaker 2>It's just not worth it anymore, and he later tells

0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:54.080
<v Speaker 2>federal agents that he's very worried the group will think

0:31:54.120 --> 0:31:56.760
<v Speaker 2>that he talked to the cops, which is I guess

0:31:56.840 --> 0:31:58.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of a silly thing to worry about, because he

0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:02.520
<v Speaker 2>was a cop until the day before this, But I

0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:06.880
<v Speaker 2>guess he means other cops and about this. So the

0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:09.280
<v Speaker 2>more they insist that you have to come out here.

0:32:09.320 --> 0:32:11.120
<v Speaker 2>You're not allowed to leave the group, you have to

0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:14.040
<v Speaker 2>come out here to be with us, the more scared

0:32:14.080 --> 0:32:15.800
<v Speaker 2>he gets that they only want him to come out

0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:20.000
<v Speaker 2>to Boise so they can kill him. And that's the

0:32:20.040 --> 0:32:23.040
<v Speaker 2>week the first indictment came down, and it's only for

0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:25.360
<v Speaker 2>Liam Collins and Paul Kreishak, and they're only charged with

0:32:25.400 --> 0:32:28.640
<v Speaker 2>the gun trafficking. The Feds pick up Jordan Duncan the

0:32:28.640 --> 0:32:31.240
<v Speaker 2>same day, charging him with conspiracy.

0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:32.160
<v Speaker 1>He was arrested as.

0:32:32.040 --> 0:32:33.680
<v Speaker 2>He walked across the parking lot on his way into

0:32:33.680 --> 0:32:36.840
<v Speaker 2>work that morning. A dozen agents through flash bangs before

0:32:36.920 --> 0:32:40.400
<v Speaker 2>rushing him, and on the day of that arrest, all

0:32:40.400 --> 0:32:42.400
<v Speaker 2>the Feds know for sure is that these guys are

0:32:42.440 --> 0:32:46.040
<v Speaker 2>making and mailing guns, and that they have these extremist views.

0:32:46.880 --> 0:32:49.720
<v Speaker 2>It's not illegal to have those extremist views. You can't

0:32:50.080 --> 0:32:53.680
<v Speaker 2>arrest them for having those views. But if you know

0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:57.920
<v Speaker 2>they're trafficking those guns to members of their Nazi paramilitary group,

0:32:58.320 --> 0:33:00.480
<v Speaker 2>there are going to be some follow up quests that

0:33:00.960 --> 0:33:04.640
<v Speaker 2>aren't about the National Firearms Act. And right around the

0:33:04.640 --> 0:33:08.400
<v Speaker 2>time of these first arrests, investigators interview Maxwell Womack, the

0:33:08.440 --> 0:33:11.400
<v Speaker 2>most recent recruit to the organization, the one who bought

0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:15.480
<v Speaker 2>all that tannerite. Justin Hermanson had recruited this fellow marine

0:33:15.520 --> 0:33:18.520
<v Speaker 2>just weeks before the indictment. He's only mentioned by name

0:33:18.560 --> 0:33:20.600
<v Speaker 2>a few times. It looks like he came into things

0:33:20.680 --> 0:33:23.320
<v Speaker 2>right there at the end and hadn't necessarily broken the

0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:27.320
<v Speaker 2>law yet and was very cooperative during the investigation. And

0:33:27.360 --> 0:33:30.080
<v Speaker 2>they also interviewed Joseph Zacherik, the cop with Cold Feet.

0:33:30.960 --> 0:33:33.360
<v Speaker 2>He too was cooperative and was never charged in connection

0:33:33.440 --> 0:33:36.560
<v Speaker 2>with the group's activities. And both of these men tell

0:33:36.600 --> 0:33:40.000
<v Speaker 2>investigators in October of twenty twenty that their former friends

0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:44.880
<v Speaker 2>had talked a lot about attacking the power grid. They

0:33:44.880 --> 0:33:48.120
<v Speaker 2>were obsessed with the Metcalf sniper attacked as still unsolved

0:33:48.120 --> 0:33:51.200
<v Speaker 2>incident in twenty thirteen, where a small team of gunmen

0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:54.720
<v Speaker 2>damaged seventeen transformers at the Metcalf transmission substation outside of

0:33:54.760 --> 0:33:58.960
<v Speaker 2>San Jose, California. The attack failed to actually take out

0:33:59.000 --> 0:34:01.240
<v Speaker 2>power to the area, but it did cost fifteen million

0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:04.240
<v Speaker 2>dollars in damage. And it's a source of great fascination

0:34:04.440 --> 0:34:07.760
<v Speaker 2>for a certain kind of guy, a guy who wants

0:34:07.760 --> 0:34:10.560
<v Speaker 2>to turn out the lights. It's sort of proof of

0:34:10.600 --> 0:34:13.160
<v Speaker 2>concept that you can take out a substation with just

0:34:13.200 --> 0:34:16.839
<v Speaker 2>a rifle. And when they arrested Paul Kreischak, they found

0:34:16.840 --> 0:34:19.959
<v Speaker 2>a piece of paper in his wallet. On one side

0:34:20.000 --> 0:34:24.680
<v Speaker 2>there was a handwritten list of intersections. Each intersection corresponded

0:34:24.719 --> 0:34:27.040
<v Speaker 2>to the location of a piece of critical infrastructure for

0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:31.840
<v Speaker 2>the power grid in Idaho, Oregon, Washington, and California. And

0:34:31.920 --> 0:34:35.880
<v Speaker 2>on the other side there were a dozen names. The

0:34:35.880 --> 0:34:38.560
<v Speaker 2>people on the list were mostly local and state politicians.

0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:41.640
<v Speaker 2>It included the governor of Oregon and a California state

0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:46.000
<v Speaker 2>representative who happens to be both gay and Jewish. Alicia Garza,

0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:48.120
<v Speaker 2>a co founder of the Black Lives Matter movement, posted

0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:50.120
<v Speaker 2>a tweet that week that the FBI had visited her

0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:52.520
<v Speaker 2>home to inform her that her name was on the list.

0:34:53.600 --> 0:34:56.640
<v Speaker 2>Investigative journalist Jim Laporta has also posted that he received

0:34:56.640 --> 0:35:01.280
<v Speaker 2>a similar visit in late twenty twenty. Physical surveillance conducted

0:35:01.280 --> 0:35:03.600
<v Speaker 2>prior to these first arrests, along with the information they

0:35:03.640 --> 0:35:06.000
<v Speaker 2>got back from the warrant for the iCloud accounts, did

0:35:06.040 --> 0:35:09.279
<v Speaker 2>provide investigators with some idea that the group was considering

0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:14.000
<v Speaker 2>using those guns they were making. Investigators noted that their

0:35:14.040 --> 0:35:16.319
<v Speaker 2>observation of the recordings of the live fire drill the

0:35:16.320 --> 0:35:21.400
<v Speaker 2>group got together for in July showed offensive tactics, so

0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:24.360
<v Speaker 2>they're not just out there target shooting. They were drilling

0:35:24.360 --> 0:35:26.680
<v Speaker 2>in the kinds of paramilitary tactics you would use to

0:35:26.719 --> 0:35:31.359
<v Speaker 2>carry out an offensive attack. Liam Collins's younger brother, still

0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:33.279
<v Speaker 2>in high school at the time, recorded a video of

0:35:33.320 --> 0:35:36.640
<v Speaker 2>Black Lives Matter rally from a high vantage point. He

0:35:36.719 --> 0:35:38.960
<v Speaker 2>sent the group a photo he took while surveilling the rally,

0:35:39.040 --> 0:35:42.719
<v Speaker 2>superimposing a swastika over the picture and captioning it if

0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:46.919
<v Speaker 2>only they knew. In late July, Paul Kreischuk was seen

0:35:46.960 --> 0:35:49.120
<v Speaker 2>sitting in his car observing a Black Lives Matter rally

0:35:49.120 --> 0:35:53.400
<v Speaker 2>at Boise State University, then slowly circling it several times

0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:57.480
<v Speaker 2>before driving off. A month later, he was seen again

0:35:57.560 --> 0:35:59.560
<v Speaker 2>sitting in his car across the street from a park

0:35:59.600 --> 0:36:02.920
<v Speaker 2>in Boys where a rally was being held. Activists and

0:36:02.960 --> 0:36:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Idaho were understandably outraged when they found out that the

0:36:05.880 --> 0:36:09.759
<v Speaker 2>FBI had simply watched this man as he watched them,

0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:14.080
<v Speaker 2>knowing he was considering opening fire on them. It seems

0:36:14.120 --> 0:36:16.480
<v Speaker 2>the full extent of the plan was only really uncovered

0:36:16.680 --> 0:36:20.000
<v Speaker 2>after the arrests in October. With the first three members

0:36:20.040 --> 0:36:22.400
<v Speaker 2>of the cell and custody, they now had full access

0:36:22.400 --> 0:36:26.240
<v Speaker 2>to the men's phones and computers. In early October, Duncan

0:36:26.280 --> 0:36:28.720
<v Speaker 2>and Kryshuk discussed shooting members of the local Black Lives

0:36:28.719 --> 0:36:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Matter chapter. Videos were also found on Joseph Marino's phone

0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:35.040
<v Speaker 2>indicating that he had been surveilling Black Lives Matter rallies

0:36:35.040 --> 0:36:39.080
<v Speaker 2>in his area that summer too. In one conversation that summer,

0:36:39.160 --> 0:36:41.560
<v Speaker 2>the height of the uprising after George Floyd's murder, Paul

0:36:41.640 --> 0:36:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Kryschuk texted the group a photo of a BLM flyer

0:36:44.000 --> 0:36:46.759
<v Speaker 2>he'd torn down in Boise. He said they should come

0:36:46.800 --> 0:36:48.760
<v Speaker 2>up with something else. To put up in its place.

0:36:49.920 --> 0:36:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Joseph Morino replied, the lights will turn off, and so

0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:58.360
<v Speaker 2>will you. It's a bit of a clunky slogan. I

0:36:58.440 --> 0:37:00.360
<v Speaker 2>might have workshopped that a little bit. I was in

0:37:00.440 --> 0:37:03.520
<v Speaker 2>charge of propaganda for the Nazi terror cell, but it

0:37:03.560 --> 0:37:07.000
<v Speaker 2>describes the group's ultimate plan. They hoped to do something

0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:10.200
<v Speaker 2>like the Metcalf sniper attack, and then, under cover of darkness,

0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:13.800
<v Speaker 2>with emergency responders tied up with car accidents and medical

0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:16.839
<v Speaker 2>emergencies that would ensue during a blackout, they would carry

0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:21.320
<v Speaker 2>out a series of targeted assassinations. Searches of Kaishak's devices

0:37:21.320 --> 0:37:23.920
<v Speaker 2>indicated he had already compiled information about the whereabouts of

0:37:23.960 --> 0:37:26.680
<v Speaker 2>many of the names on his list. The group had

0:37:26.719 --> 0:37:29.200
<v Speaker 2>discussed the most efficient ways of killing their targets, working

0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:33.040
<v Speaker 2>out the logistics of placing car bombs. As Kraischuk wrote

0:37:33.040 --> 0:37:36.520
<v Speaker 2>to other members of the group, the final frontier is

0:37:36.600 --> 0:37:41.080
<v Speaker 2>real life violence. Liam Collins had been stealing military gear

0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:43.759
<v Speaker 2>from Camp Lajune for years, so when the time came,

0:37:44.320 --> 0:37:48.839
<v Speaker 2>they'd be outfitted in military grade body armour. It wasn't

0:37:48.880 --> 0:37:50.840
<v Speaker 2>until August of twenty twenty one that the Department of

0:37:50.920 --> 0:37:53.359
<v Speaker 2>Justice actually filed a charge against the men for this

0:37:53.440 --> 0:37:57.240
<v Speaker 2>particular element of the plot. The first indictment in October

0:37:57.280 --> 0:37:59.880
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty charged Kaishak and Collins with a firearm trafficking.

0:38:00.560 --> 0:38:02.480
<v Speaker 2>Duncan was arrested at the same time in charge with

0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:05.800
<v Speaker 2>a conspiracy. The week of those arrests, they tried to

0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:08.200
<v Speaker 2>speak with Joseph Marino and he was arrested on state

0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:11.320
<v Speaker 2>level charges in New Jersey for having an unseerialized lower

0:38:11.360 --> 0:38:14.440
<v Speaker 2>receiver that's the part of the gun that makes it

0:38:14.520 --> 0:38:17.120
<v Speaker 2>legally a gun. According to the government, I don't know,

0:38:17.280 --> 0:38:21.800
<v Speaker 2>not a gun guy, and they interviewed Justin Hermanson. According

0:38:21.800 --> 0:38:24.759
<v Speaker 2>to Joseph Marino's attorney, Herminson was offered an out by

0:38:24.760 --> 0:38:27.640
<v Speaker 2>the agents who spoke to him in October. They told him, hey,

0:38:28.080 --> 0:38:30.520
<v Speaker 2>you've got a chance to help yourself out here, and

0:38:30.560 --> 0:38:33.319
<v Speaker 2>that may have been true. A lot of the men

0:38:33.360 --> 0:38:37.240
<v Speaker 2>involved in this plot never got charged. People who made

0:38:37.280 --> 0:38:40.799
<v Speaker 2>purchases or picked up a package. Maxwell Womack who bought

0:38:40.800 --> 0:38:43.880
<v Speaker 2>the Tannerite, A lot of men who cooperated and weren't

0:38:44.160 --> 0:38:47.920
<v Speaker 2>central to the plot did not get charged. And again,

0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:51.200
<v Speaker 2>according to Marino's lawyer, Herminson did talk to the agents

0:38:51.239 --> 0:38:54.799
<v Speaker 2>at that time specifically about how involved Marino had been

0:38:54.840 --> 0:38:59.480
<v Speaker 2>in these crimes. But either Herminson wasn't that helpful or

0:38:59.800 --> 0:39:02.160
<v Speaker 2>the agents just didn't realize the time in October the

0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:04.360
<v Speaker 2>extent to which he'd been involved in the gun running scheme,

0:39:04.800 --> 0:39:06.960
<v Speaker 2>because a month later, in November of twenty twenty, there's

0:39:07.000 --> 0:39:12.239
<v Speaker 2>a second indictment, the first superseding indictment. The term superseding

0:39:12.280 --> 0:39:15.120
<v Speaker 2>indictment will be familiar to you if you have any

0:39:15.120 --> 0:39:17.360
<v Speaker 2>involvement with the courts or if you've just been following

0:39:17.400 --> 0:39:19.960
<v Speaker 2>the Trump criminal cases closely, but it just means they

0:39:19.960 --> 0:39:22.319
<v Speaker 2>got the grand jury back together to issue a new

0:39:22.360 --> 0:39:25.880
<v Speaker 2>indictment in a case based on some new information. It

0:39:25.920 --> 0:39:29.400
<v Speaker 2>could involve adding new charges or new defendants, and in

0:39:29.440 --> 0:39:32.440
<v Speaker 2>this case we got both. So in this second indictment,

0:39:32.480 --> 0:39:35.319
<v Speaker 2>we've got way more details about the specific transactions, the

0:39:35.360 --> 0:39:38.400
<v Speaker 2>money transfers and the gun shipments. And now in addition

0:39:38.440 --> 0:39:42.640
<v Speaker 2>to Kryshak and Collins, Jordan Duncan and Justin Hermanson are charged.

0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:46.879
<v Speaker 2>But we're still just talking about firearm trafficking. And there's

0:39:46.920 --> 0:39:49.879
<v Speaker 2>this conspiracy element now making a new allegation that they're

0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:52.520
<v Speaker 2>engaged in this conspiracy to traffic these guns for a

0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:56.680
<v Speaker 2>criminal purpose, with the intent being to provoke civil disorder.

0:39:57.160 --> 0:39:59.279
<v Speaker 2>And here's where we finally get the government talking about

0:39:59.280 --> 0:40:03.960
<v Speaker 2>them stalking the blm rallies and talking privately about shooting protesters.

0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:07.000
<v Speaker 2>The following year, in June of twenty twenty one, a

0:40:07.040 --> 0:40:10.480
<v Speaker 2>second superseding indictment comes down, and now all five of

0:40:10.520 --> 0:40:14.040
<v Speaker 2>these men have been charged, Paul Kreischuk, Liam Collins, Justin Hermanson,

0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:18.200
<v Speaker 2>Jordan Duncan, and now Joseph Marino. And they've known all

0:40:18.200 --> 0:40:21.080
<v Speaker 2>along that Marino went to Boise in July twenty twenty

0:40:21.120 --> 0:40:24.279
<v Speaker 2>to participate in the training drill. And they've known all

0:40:24.320 --> 0:40:26.800
<v Speaker 2>along that Marino was recruited to the group by Kraishuk

0:40:26.840 --> 0:40:29.600
<v Speaker 2>in twenty eighteen, and that he transferred money to Kraishuk

0:40:29.680 --> 0:40:30.440
<v Speaker 2>in twenty eighteen.

0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:33.120
<v Speaker 1>It's unclear exactly when.

0:40:33.000 --> 0:40:36.800
<v Speaker 2>They determined that Marino had been as Collins was engaging

0:40:36.800 --> 0:40:39.400
<v Speaker 2>in a little bit of his own deal making, selling

0:40:39.480 --> 0:40:41.480
<v Speaker 2>guns to people, getting their money and then sending that

0:40:41.560 --> 0:40:44.239
<v Speaker 2>money and the order to Kryshuk to fulfill. But that's

0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:48.160
<v Speaker 2>what's newly alleged in this second superseding indictment. So now

0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:50.759
<v Speaker 2>they're all charged for this conspiracy to manufacture and ship

0:40:50.760 --> 0:40:54.960
<v Speaker 2>firearms with the intent to cause civil disorder. And then finally,

0:40:55.080 --> 0:40:58.400
<v Speaker 2>in August of twenty twenty one, the third superseding indictment

0:40:58.480 --> 0:41:01.840
<v Speaker 2>charges four of them Rreisch, Collins, Marino, and Duncan, but

0:41:02.000 --> 0:41:05.840
<v Speaker 2>not Hermitsen, with conspiracy to damage an energy facility.

0:41:07.239 --> 0:41:07.759
<v Speaker 1>And I guess they.

0:41:07.680 --> 0:41:11.160
<v Speaker 2>Should explain a little bit about the idea that taking

0:41:11.160 --> 0:41:13.680
<v Speaker 2>out a power grid is a rational first step for

0:41:13.760 --> 0:41:17.279
<v Speaker 2>starting a race war. It's maybe not something that makes

0:41:17.320 --> 0:41:19.680
<v Speaker 2>perfect intuitive sense to someone who doesn't have a dozen

0:41:19.719 --> 0:41:20.680
<v Speaker 2>manifestos about it on.

0:41:20.680 --> 0:41:21.279
<v Speaker 1>Their hard drive.

0:41:22.400 --> 0:41:24.960
<v Speaker 2>FBI, if you were listening, these are research materials. I

0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:28.200
<v Speaker 2>actually really hate it when the power goes out, but

0:41:28.239 --> 0:41:30.280
<v Speaker 2>it's an incredibly common belief.

0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:31.440
<v Speaker 1>At least in certain circles.

0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:35.040
<v Speaker 2>The general idea for many of them is that a

0:41:35.080 --> 0:41:40.680
<v Speaker 2>massive blackout would cause chaos. That's reasonable enough, perhaps, And

0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:42.520
<v Speaker 2>most people who think that this is a good idea

0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:47.320
<v Speaker 2>are accelerationists, people who believe that society is already unstable,

0:41:47.680 --> 0:41:50.520
<v Speaker 2>and instead of trying to fix it or realize their

0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:53.240
<v Speaker 2>vision of what it could look like within the current structure,

0:41:53.760 --> 0:41:55.600
<v Speaker 2>they believe that the best course of action is to

0:41:55.760 --> 0:42:00.000
<v Speaker 2>force it to collapse. You accelerate the destabilization of society,

0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:02.960
<v Speaker 2>you push it over the brink and into complete collapse

0:42:03.520 --> 0:42:06.839
<v Speaker 2>so you can rebuild it from the rubble. And their

0:42:06.920 --> 0:42:09.000
<v Speaker 2>vision of what is to be built from the ashes

0:42:09.120 --> 0:42:13.640
<v Speaker 2>is usually pretty bad spoiler alert, A lot of us

0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:17.680
<v Speaker 2>are not alive in it. The general idea is actually

0:42:17.719 --> 0:42:21.759
<v Speaker 2>predicated on a false assumption that in a blackout, when

0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:24.520
<v Speaker 2>resources are restricted and there is confusion and chaos and

0:42:24.560 --> 0:42:27.040
<v Speaker 2>we can't get what we need, that will turn on

0:42:27.080 --> 0:42:31.279
<v Speaker 2>each other immediately, that we will turn to violence immediately,

0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:34.719
<v Speaker 2>that we will riot and steal and kill because we've

0:42:34.719 --> 0:42:38.239
<v Speaker 2>been inconvenienced. But a lot of the documentation we have

0:42:38.280 --> 0:42:41.360
<v Speaker 2>from real natural disasters shows us evidence to the contrary.

0:42:42.160 --> 0:42:46.200
<v Speaker 2>When disaster strikes, we don't turn on each other. Psychologists

0:42:46.239 --> 0:42:50.839
<v Speaker 2>and sociologists have terms like catastrophe compassion, and disaster collectivism

0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:55.400
<v Speaker 2>to describe the phenomenon, and research shows that this conventional

0:42:55.440 --> 0:42:57.560
<v Speaker 2>wisdom that people turn on each other in a crisis

0:42:57.600 --> 0:43:01.360
<v Speaker 2>is just not true, at least in the short term.

0:43:01.520 --> 0:43:05.799
<v Speaker 2>Disasters actually bring us together. But I suppose if you're

0:43:05.800 --> 0:43:08.680
<v Speaker 2>an aspiring neo Nazi terrorist, you don't have the same

0:43:08.840 --> 0:43:11.840
<v Speaker 2>understanding of love and human compassion as your neighbors do,

0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:16.279
<v Speaker 2>so the plan maybe makes sense to you. Attacks or

0:43:16.440 --> 0:43:21.000
<v Speaker 2>attempted ones anyway on electrical infrastructure are alarmingly common in

0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:24.600
<v Speaker 2>right wing extremism. In early twenty twenty two, the Department

0:43:24.600 --> 0:43:27.520
<v Speaker 2>of Homeland Security shared an intelligence bulletin with law enforcement

0:43:27.600 --> 0:43:30.719
<v Speaker 2>agencies and utility operators that there had been a marked

0:43:30.800 --> 0:43:34.760
<v Speaker 2>uptick in attacks on electrical infrastructure since twenty twenty, writing

0:43:35.480 --> 0:43:39.200
<v Speaker 2>domestic violent extremists have developed credible, specific plans to attack

0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:43.280
<v Speaker 2>electricity infrastructure since at least twenty twenty, identifying the electric

0:43:43.320 --> 0:43:46.920
<v Speaker 2>grid as a particularly attractive target given its interdependency with

0:43:47.000 --> 0:43:51.600
<v Speaker 2>other infrastructure sectors. Several news outlets lengthy uptick and the

0:43:51.640 --> 0:43:55.480
<v Speaker 2>resulting bulletins, specifically to a fourteen page zene styled document

0:43:55.560 --> 0:44:01.800
<v Speaker 2>circulating on Telegram, a messaging platform favored by extremists, And honestly,

0:44:01.840 --> 0:44:03.640
<v Speaker 2>I've got a copy of that one, I know, which

0:44:03.640 --> 0:44:07.160
<v Speaker 2>when they're talking about it doesn't really provide any actionable

0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:09.520
<v Speaker 2>instructions you couldn't come up with on your own. It

0:44:09.560 --> 0:44:12.640
<v Speaker 2>doesn't map out a specific attack. It just sort of

0:44:13.120 --> 0:44:19.000
<v Speaker 2>advances the idea that attacks like this are good. It's flashy, though,

0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:21.840
<v Speaker 2>I'll give it that. It's got a lot of colors

0:44:21.840 --> 0:44:26.320
<v Speaker 2>and fonts. Terrible fonts, really bad use of fonts. Honestly,

0:44:27.640 --> 0:44:30.080
<v Speaker 2>one page is just a diagram of the wound patterns

0:44:30.120 --> 0:44:34.680
<v Speaker 2>from Sharon Tate's autopsy that does actually make a certain

0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:37.439
<v Speaker 2>kind of sense. But I fear we'll have to save

0:44:37.480 --> 0:44:40.560
<v Speaker 2>the pen pal relationship between Charles Manson and neo Nazi

0:44:40.640 --> 0:44:45.319
<v Speaker 2>James Mason for another episode. But this document, cited by

0:44:45.400 --> 0:44:47.880
<v Speaker 2>DHS officials as part of their concern of the rising

0:44:47.880 --> 0:44:51.160
<v Speaker 2>threats to the grid, tells the reader to be a

0:44:51.200 --> 0:44:54.239
<v Speaker 2>man of action to topple this anti white system through

0:44:54.239 --> 0:44:57.360
<v Speaker 2>a variety of means, including attacking the power grid.

0:44:57.600 --> 0:45:01.239
<v Speaker 1>The pamphlet writes, but with.

0:45:01.239 --> 0:45:03.880
<v Speaker 4>The power off, when the lights don't come back on,

0:45:04.600 --> 0:45:08.520
<v Speaker 4>all hell will break loose, making conditions desirable for our

0:45:08.600 --> 0:45:11.280
<v Speaker 4>race to once again take back what is ours.

0:45:14.760 --> 0:45:18.439
<v Speaker 2>While these attacks can end up costing millions of dollars, and,

0:45:18.480 --> 0:45:23.640
<v Speaker 2>according to experts, could theoretically in certain circumstances, trigger catastrophic

0:45:23.760 --> 0:45:27.239
<v Speaker 2>cascading grid failures that would take months to repair, they've

0:45:27.239 --> 0:45:30.960
<v Speaker 2>never actually cost a race war. In nineteen ninety nine,

0:45:31.000 --> 0:45:33.600
<v Speaker 2>three members of the San Joaquin Militia, an anti government

0:45:33.600 --> 0:45:36.080
<v Speaker 2>extremist group, plotted to blow up a pair of tanks,

0:45:36.160 --> 0:45:39.480
<v Speaker 2>each holding twelve million gallons of propane because they thought

0:45:39.520 --> 0:45:42.480
<v Speaker 2>the ensuing chaos would force the government to declare martial law,

0:45:42.520 --> 0:45:45.360
<v Speaker 2>which I guess in their minds would inspire more people

0:45:45.400 --> 0:45:47.760
<v Speaker 2>to join the militia movement to then fight the government.

0:45:47.880 --> 0:45:51.000
<v Speaker 2>So these militia groups are terrified that the government would

0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:54.000
<v Speaker 2>declare martial law, and so in order to prove to

0:45:54.080 --> 0:45:57.319
<v Speaker 2>people that the government could do that, they're going to

0:45:57.360 --> 0:45:59.719
<v Speaker 2>make them do that. I don't know, I don't know

0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:02.919
<v Speaker 2>what it's going on in their minds. That same year,

0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Donald Beauregard, the leader of a militia group called the

0:46:05.239 --> 0:46:08.720
<v Speaker 2>Southeastern States Alliance, was arrested for a plan to steal

0:46:08.719 --> 0:46:11.759
<v Speaker 2>explosives from National Guard armory to blow up power transmission

0:46:11.800 --> 0:46:15.279
<v Speaker 2>stations in Florida. He too, hoped a government crackdown in

0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:18.400
<v Speaker 2>response to the disaster would inspire a popular uprising and

0:46:18.560 --> 0:46:23.759
<v Speaker 2>subsequent violent revolution. And remember Brandon Russell, the Iron March

0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:27.240
<v Speaker 2>poster who founded Adam Offfen when his roommate Devon Arthur's

0:46:27.280 --> 0:46:29.560
<v Speaker 2>murdered the other two men they lived with in twenty seventeen.

0:46:29.800 --> 0:46:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Arthur's told the police that Russell had plans to take

0:46:32.040 --> 0:46:37.080
<v Speaker 2>out critical infrastructure. Tampa police searched the apartment mainly because

0:46:37.120 --> 0:46:40.160
<v Speaker 2>there were two dead guys inside from the double murder,

0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:43.040
<v Speaker 2>and they found a cooler full of a white cake

0:46:43.239 --> 0:46:47.520
<v Speaker 2>like substance that FBI technicians on scene recognized as hexamethylene

0:46:47.560 --> 0:46:54.640
<v Speaker 2>triperoxide diamine or HMTD, an explosive compound, and they found

0:46:54.640 --> 0:46:59.239
<v Speaker 2>other precursor materials for making explosives and homemade detonators, radioactive materials,

0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:03.560
<v Speaker 2>a framed photo of Timothy McVeigh on Russell's dresser, and

0:47:03.640 --> 0:47:05.840
<v Speaker 2>assorted neo Nazi propaganda materials.

0:47:06.960 --> 0:47:09.120
<v Speaker 1>The Tampa police spoke to Brandon Russell.

0:47:09.200 --> 0:47:12.640
<v Speaker 2>He told them, yes, I'm a Nazi, Yes I'm a

0:47:12.640 --> 0:47:15.759
<v Speaker 2>member of Adam Offfen, but no, no, that cooler full

0:47:15.800 --> 0:47:21.320
<v Speaker 2>of HMTD is actually for model rocketry. The Tampa police

0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:24.760
<v Speaker 2>let him go, but the FBI immediately contacted the ATF

0:47:24.840 --> 0:47:26.960
<v Speaker 2>with the details of the materials they'd found in the apartment,

0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:31.040
<v Speaker 2>and the ATF said, yeah, that's that's bombs. You let

0:47:31.120 --> 0:47:34.760
<v Speaker 2>the bomb Nazi go, So they immediately issued a federal

0:47:34.800 --> 0:47:38.480
<v Speaker 2>warrant for Russell the following day. He ultimately pled guilty

0:47:38.520 --> 0:47:41.600
<v Speaker 2>to possessing an unregistered explosive device and was sentenced to

0:47:41.640 --> 0:47:44.600
<v Speaker 2>five years. He was out barely a year before he

0:47:44.600 --> 0:47:48.120
<v Speaker 2>started conspiring to blow up critical infrastructure in Baltimore, so

0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:52.399
<v Speaker 2>he is back in federal prison now well. He allegedly

0:47:52.600 --> 0:47:55.040
<v Speaker 2>conspired to take out the power in Baltimore. I guess

0:47:55.040 --> 0:47:59.200
<v Speaker 2>he hasn't been tried yet. Christopher Cook and Jonathan Frost

0:47:59.239 --> 0:48:01.399
<v Speaker 2>were sentence last for a plot to attack the power

0:48:01.400 --> 0:48:04.920
<v Speaker 2>grid in multiple US cities. They too, believed the ensuing

0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:07.399
<v Speaker 2>chaos would spark the race war and that society could

0:48:07.440 --> 0:48:11.360
<v Speaker 2>be rebuilt by and four white men. And there have

0:48:11.360 --> 0:48:14.160
<v Speaker 2>been at least four unsolved attacks on electrical infrastructure in

0:48:14.160 --> 0:48:16.920
<v Speaker 2>North Carolina in the last two years, including a November

0:48:16.960 --> 0:48:19.400
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty two incident that left thousands without power in

0:48:19.520 --> 0:48:23.839
<v Speaker 2>Jones County, not far from Camp La June. A month later,

0:48:23.880 --> 0:48:26.000
<v Speaker 2>in December of twenty twenty two, a woman died as

0:48:26.040 --> 0:48:29.160
<v Speaker 2>a result of the power outage in Moore County. Because

0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:31.000
<v Speaker 2>her death was a direct result of the attack on

0:48:31.040 --> 0:48:34.600
<v Speaker 2>the infrastructure, her death has been ruled a homicide, so

0:48:34.640 --> 0:48:36.440
<v Speaker 2>if they ever do charge someone for the attack on

0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:41.359
<v Speaker 2>that substation, they'll probably catch that murder charge too. In

0:48:41.360 --> 0:48:44.440
<v Speaker 2>February of twenty twenty two, Paul Kreishak pled guilty to

0:48:44.560 --> 0:48:48.720
<v Speaker 2>conspiracy to destroy an energy facility. His plea agreement dropped

0:48:48.719 --> 0:48:51.000
<v Speaker 2>all the other charges, even though, if you've been able

0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:54.040
<v Speaker 2>to follow along this convoluted mess of a story, he's

0:48:54.080 --> 0:48:57.080
<v Speaker 2>actually the one who made and mailed all of those guns.

0:48:58.000 --> 0:49:01.080
<v Speaker 2>He was sentenced last month to six years and six months.

0:49:02.440 --> 0:49:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Justin Hermanson was the next to plead, taking an agreement

0:49:04.719 --> 0:49:07.319
<v Speaker 2>in March twenty twenty two, and was sentenced last month

0:49:07.360 --> 0:49:10.520
<v Speaker 2>to one year and nine months for conspiracy to manufacture

0:49:10.600 --> 0:49:14.839
<v Speaker 2>firearms and ship interstate. Joseph Marino took a plea deal

0:49:14.840 --> 0:49:17.480
<v Speaker 2>a month later, in April twenty twenty two, pleading guilty

0:49:17.520 --> 0:49:20.440
<v Speaker 2>to the same charge, a single count of conspiracy to

0:49:20.520 --> 0:49:25.319
<v Speaker 2>manufacture firearms and ship interstate. Oddly, he doesn't have a

0:49:25.360 --> 0:49:27.759
<v Speaker 2>sentencing date that I can find. He's been out on

0:49:27.840 --> 0:49:30.799
<v Speaker 2>bond since that August twenty twenty one indictment, and after

0:49:30.840 --> 0:49:33.439
<v Speaker 2>he pled guilty, they set a sentencing date for July

0:49:33.480 --> 0:49:36.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three, but it was postponed indefinitely after a

0:49:36.080 --> 0:49:40.239
<v Speaker 2>sealed motion was filed. It's possible they needed his cooperation

0:49:40.320 --> 0:49:43.400
<v Speaker 2>in the cases against his co defendants, and pending that cooperation,

0:49:43.480 --> 0:49:46.279
<v Speaker 2>they postponed sentencing so they could consider that help in

0:49:46.360 --> 0:49:49.600
<v Speaker 2>deciding his punishment. I should stop trying to guess why

0:49:49.640 --> 0:49:51.960
<v Speaker 2>the Department of Justice times their paperwork the way they do.

0:49:52.520 --> 0:49:56.000
<v Speaker 2>It's too hard, usually fruitless, and even if I'm ridal

0:49:56.400 --> 0:50:01.200
<v Speaker 2>never know, I just can't help it, I guess. Liam

0:50:01.239 --> 0:50:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Collins was the fourth to plead guilty. In October twenty

0:50:04.000 --> 0:50:06.320
<v Speaker 2>twenty three, he pled guilty to one count of aiding

0:50:06.320 --> 0:50:10.239
<v Speaker 2>and a betting the interstate transportation of unregistered firearms. He

0:50:10.320 --> 0:50:15.120
<v Speaker 2>was sentenced last month to ten years. Then finally, in

0:50:15.200 --> 0:50:18.359
<v Speaker 2>June twenty twenty four, Jordan Duncan pled guilty to one

0:50:18.440 --> 0:50:21.200
<v Speaker 2>count of aiding and a betting the manufacturing of a firearm.

0:50:21.840 --> 0:50:24.120
<v Speaker 2>He scheduled to be sentenced in September and could face

0:50:24.200 --> 0:50:27.680
<v Speaker 2>up to ten years. You have to wonder about the

0:50:27.760 --> 0:50:28.920
<v Speaker 2>charges everyone ended.

0:50:28.760 --> 0:50:29.319
<v Speaker 1>Up pleading to.

0:50:29.440 --> 0:50:32.160
<v Speaker 2>At the end of the day, the guy who made

0:50:32.200 --> 0:50:34.520
<v Speaker 2>all of the guns didn't get convicted of a gun crime.

0:50:35.480 --> 0:50:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Some of them are guilty of helping make the guns.

0:50:37.960 --> 0:50:39.880
<v Speaker 2>Some are just guilty of being part of the process

0:50:39.880 --> 0:50:43.279
<v Speaker 2>of getting those guns across state lines. Marino isn't actually

0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:45.719
<v Speaker 2>guilty of either, just of being part of a conspiracy

0:50:45.719 --> 0:50:49.040
<v Speaker 2>to do it. And nobody's guilty of fantasizing about starting

0:50:49.040 --> 0:50:53.280
<v Speaker 2>a race war because I guess technically that's legal, although

0:50:53.760 --> 0:50:57.600
<v Speaker 2>not in Virginia. Actually, Section eighteen point two Dash four

0:50:57.640 --> 0:51:01.040
<v Speaker 2>eighty five, conspiring to incite one race to insurrection against

0:51:01.080 --> 0:51:04.040
<v Speaker 2>another race makes it a class for felony here in

0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:07.480
<v Speaker 2>the Commonwealth of Virginia to conspire with another to incite

0:51:07.520 --> 0:51:09.600
<v Speaker 2>the population of one race to acts of violence and

0:51:09.640 --> 0:51:13.319
<v Speaker 2>war against the population of another race. But I don't

0:51:13.320 --> 0:51:16.080
<v Speaker 2>think anybody's ever actually been charged with that. And these

0:51:16.080 --> 0:51:18.480
<v Speaker 2>guys were trying to start the race war in Idaho anyway.

0:51:19.320 --> 0:51:21.479
<v Speaker 2>They aren't the first weird guys to try to start

0:51:21.480 --> 0:51:23.840
<v Speaker 2>the race war from Idaho, and they definitely will not

0:51:23.920 --> 0:51:24.879
<v Speaker 2>be the last.

0:51:25.880 --> 0:51:26.840
<v Speaker 1>But today I will.

0:51:26.760 --> 0:51:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Leave you with this the best thing I have ever

0:51:29.680 --> 0:51:33.600
<v Speaker 2>and probably will ever read. In a federal court transcript

0:51:34.440 --> 0:51:36.560
<v Speaker 2>at in August twenty twenty one hearing to determine if

0:51:36.600 --> 0:51:39.279
<v Speaker 2>Joseph Marino would be held in pre trial custody, the

0:51:39.320 --> 0:51:42.239
<v Speaker 2>prosecutor was trying to present evidence that the defendant was

0:51:42.360 --> 0:51:45.840
<v Speaker 2>armed and dangerous. That's her job at that stage, right

0:51:46.000 --> 0:51:48.400
<v Speaker 2>to say that this guy is dangerous for these specific

0:51:48.440 --> 0:51:52.120
<v Speaker 2>reasons and you shouldn't let him out, and that didn't

0:51:52.160 --> 0:51:54.040
<v Speaker 2>have to be so hard given what we know about

0:51:54.080 --> 0:51:58.520
<v Speaker 2>the full situation. But she misunderstood something she read in

0:51:58.560 --> 0:52:02.799
<v Speaker 2>the chat logs that she'd entered in evidence. Ncis agent

0:52:02.880 --> 0:52:05.680
<v Speaker 2>John Little reading from the government's exhibit a chat that

0:52:05.719 --> 0:52:08.360
<v Speaker 2>Marino had sent about procuring guns and ammunition for a

0:52:08.360 --> 0:52:11.200
<v Speaker 2>trip to West Virginia to shoot guns and hang out

0:52:11.200 --> 0:52:15.160
<v Speaker 2>with his extremist pals. So he reads aloud to the court,

0:52:16.040 --> 0:52:19.759
<v Speaker 2>Mister Marino states, he's got seven Mac elevens, about eight

0:52:19.920 --> 0:52:24.319
<v Speaker 2>thirty eight's and nine nines. It appears to be he's

0:52:24.360 --> 0:52:28.960
<v Speaker 2>referring to firearms. These types of firearms were never recovered.

0:52:29.560 --> 0:52:33.800
<v Speaker 2>These firearms would have different calibers. It appears they're trying

0:52:33.840 --> 0:52:37.520
<v Speaker 2>to figure out what calibers they need to purchase. If

0:52:37.520 --> 0:52:40.040
<v Speaker 2>you already know how the sends, I think you're already laughing.

0:52:41.680 --> 0:52:44.160
<v Speaker 2>And the judge ruled that day that Marino would be

0:52:44.200 --> 0:52:47.040
<v Speaker 2>held without bond, citing his apparent leadership role in the group,

0:52:47.080 --> 0:52:50.000
<v Speaker 2>his violent beliefs, the training he'd engaged in in furtherance

0:52:50.000 --> 0:52:53.200
<v Speaker 2>of them, the surveillance he'd been conducting of these plm rallies,

0:52:53.840 --> 0:52:59.239
<v Speaker 2>and these mysterious missing guns. Shortly after that hearing, the

0:52:59.280 --> 0:53:02.000
<v Speaker 2>last supersed the indictment was filed, so Marino was back

0:53:02.000 --> 0:53:04.759
<v Speaker 2>in court in front of the same judge, and now

0:53:04.760 --> 0:53:06.279
<v Speaker 2>that he'd had a few days to mull it over,

0:53:07.000 --> 0:53:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Judge Richard E. Myers interjects, just as the government is

0:53:10.120 --> 0:53:13.680
<v Speaker 2>finishing up their questioning of that NCIS agent, he says,

0:53:14.520 --> 0:53:18.160
<v Speaker 2>I've got a follow up question about the Biggie Small's lyric,

0:53:19.239 --> 0:53:24.439
<v Speaker 2>and the federal Prosecutor's confused the what, And the judge

0:53:24.440 --> 0:53:27.759
<v Speaker 2>says again about the Biggie Smalls lyrics, I've got seven

0:53:27.840 --> 0:53:31.480
<v Speaker 2>macalleven's about eight thirty eights and nine nines. That's a

0:53:31.520 --> 0:53:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Biggie Small lyric. Are we looking for those firearms? The

0:53:36.480 --> 0:53:41.160
<v Speaker 2>federal prosecutor remains perplexed. Judge Meyer says the court is

0:53:41.480 --> 0:53:45.560
<v Speaker 2>independently aware of the Biggie Small lyrics. He's taking judicial

0:53:45.600 --> 0:53:48.560
<v Speaker 2>notice of the lyrics to come on a track on

0:53:48.560 --> 0:53:51.760
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen ninety nine album Born Again from the notorious big.

0:53:53.160 --> 0:53:55.920
<v Speaker 2>The witness and the federal prosecutor are baffled, like the

0:53:56.000 --> 0:53:59.200
<v Speaker 2>judges started speaking a foreign language to them, and so

0:53:59.239 --> 0:54:03.840
<v Speaker 2>he says again that list of guns is just Biggie lyrics,

0:54:04.320 --> 0:54:08.160
<v Speaker 2>and a prosecutor at a loss says, I am still

0:54:08.200 --> 0:54:12.359
<v Speaker 2>not understanding the word. I apologize, and the judge looks

0:54:12.360 --> 0:54:16.560
<v Speaker 2>at her and says, Biggie Smalls, Biggie Smalls is a

0:54:16.600 --> 0:54:21.920
<v Speaker 2>dead wrapper. So five members of a neo Nazi paramilitary

0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:25.320
<v Speaker 2>group are heading off to federal prison for assorted gun crimes.

0:54:26.080 --> 0:54:29.719
<v Speaker 2>Nazis everywhere desperately want to shoot holes in electrical transformers.

0:54:30.560 --> 0:54:31.240
<v Speaker 1>No one shot.

0:54:31.280 --> 0:54:34.200
<v Speaker 2>The governor of Oregon and a federal judge in North

0:54:34.239 --> 0:54:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Carolina took judicial notice of Biggie Smalls.

0:54:42.120 --> 0:54:44.960
<v Speaker 1>Weird Little Guys. The production of cool Zone Media or

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<v Speaker 1>more from pool Zone Media.

0:54:46.520 --> 0:54:49.879
<v Speaker 2>Visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out

0:54:49.920 --> 0:54:52.680
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