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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: In April of twenty twenty, we were all talking about

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Speaker 2: what we were going to buy with our twelve hundred

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Speaker 2: dollars COVID stimulus check. I vaguely recall making the decision

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Speaker 2: to go ahead and bite the bullet and buy a toaster.

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Speaker 2: No more preheating the whole oven, just a toast of

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Speaker 2: little bread in my house. Life's too short not to

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Speaker 2: enjoy a crisp pot sandwich from time to time, and

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Speaker 2: starting to feel like life might be even shorter. It

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Speaker 2: was a fraud time. We all coped differently, but about

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Speaker 2: three hundred miles south of where I was obsessively reading

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Speaker 2: reviews for small appliances, an unnamed witness was chatting with

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Speaker 2: an acquaintance at Camp La June. He was thinking about

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Speaker 2: using his check to buy a handgun at a nearby

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Speaker 2: store in Jacksonville, North Carolina, and he was far from

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Speaker 2: the only one with this idea. The FBI reported a

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Speaker 2: twenty percent increase in gun sales over the previous year

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Speaker 2: during those early months of the pandemic. I guess when

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Speaker 2: Americans get scared, they turn to guns, even when that

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Speaker 2: doesn't really make any sense. But everybody wanted a gun

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Speaker 2: even beyond the average American lust for guns. So lines

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Speaker 2: were long, and prices were high, and paperwork was backlocked.

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Speaker 2: The acquaintance our unnamed witness was talking to about the purchase.

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Speaker 1: Said, oh, no, you don't want to do that.

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Speaker 2: I can get you a great deal in a Glocken

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Speaker 2: nineteen with no serial number for just fifteen hundred dollars.

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Speaker 2: You'll even get a silencer. Before discussing the details of

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Speaker 2: the deal, Liam Collins placed his phone inside of the microwave.

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Speaker 2: For those of you who only have normal friends and

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Speaker 2: have never been asked to put your cell phone in

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Speaker 2: the microwave, the idea is that the appliance acts as

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Speaker 2: a Faraday cage, preventing the device from transmitting a signal

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Speaker 2: of any kind, so it can't be used to monitor

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Speaker 2: a conversation you don't want the government to know about.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure this technique is terribly worthwhile.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the government can get a warrant to track

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Speaker 2: your phone to WI or tap your phone, but I've

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Speaker 2: never read a case where a warrant was obtained to

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Speaker 2: use someone's cell phone as a passive listening device. I'm

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Speaker 2: sure it's possible, I just don't know how likely it

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Speaker 2: is that the government is using your phone this way,

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Speaker 2: but it's a common enough idea in certain circles. And

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Speaker 2: with the spone safely stowed in the microwave, William Collins

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Speaker 2: started cooking something a little hotter than ramen. We opened

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Speaker 2: the door to the investigation that revealed a neo Nazi

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Speaker 2: terror plot to kick off a race war. I'm Molly Conger,

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Speaker 2: and this is a weird blue guys. I usually start

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Speaker 2: the process of sorting out a story by making a timeline.

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Speaker 2: Chronological order isn't always the best way to tell a story,

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Speaker 2: but it's the best way I found to understand how

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Speaker 2: the pieces fit together so I can try to make

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Speaker 2: sense of it for us. I lay out every scrap

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Speaker 2: of information I can find in the court record and

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Speaker 2: existing reporting by other journalists, and all the odds and

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Speaker 2: ends I can scrape together from the vast corners of

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Speaker 2: the Internet. After I published a piece last year about

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Speaker 2: a different weird little guy, he actually reached out to

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Speaker 2: a journalist I know who had an existing source relationship

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Speaker 2: with him and asked.

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Speaker 1: How did she know that thing about my grandmother? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's my job to know.

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Speaker 2: I spent an entire day finding county court records for

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Speaker 2: everyone you've ever met, and read a few dozen issues

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Speaker 2: of your hometown newspaper from the early nineties. I'm kind

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Speaker 2: of a weird little guy too, I guess, and I

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Speaker 2: can get a little carried away. I mean, I'm deeply

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Speaker 2: committed to placing everything in its proper context, but sometimes

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Speaker 2: I've got four generations of a guy's family tree mapped out.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at his cousin's wedding photos on Instagram, and

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Speaker 2: I've got a copy of his grandparents marriage license saved

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Speaker 2: to my desktop, and I realize I've lost the plot

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Speaker 2: a little. In this case really complicated my process. With

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Speaker 2: five defendants, three superseding indictments, and four years in court,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to find a single beginning for the timeline.

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Speaker 2: So than digging myself into a hole I can't get

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Speaker 2: back out of, let's just start in twenty fifteen, Shortly

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Speaker 2: before these five men's lives began to intertwine. In twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 2: Liam Jan Montgomery Collins, Justin Wade Hermansen, and Joseph Marino

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Speaker 2: were all still in high school. Marino would soon have

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Speaker 2: a chance encounter with a National Guard recruiter in his

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Speaker 2: high school cafeteria. Collins was doing a little modeling, walking

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Speaker 2: in a New York Fashion Week show for the Japanese

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Speaker 2: designer North Hooleywood. The summer before his junior year, Marine

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Speaker 2: Lance Corporal Jordan Duncan was living in Latvia studying Russian

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Speaker 2: at the Defense Language Institute's Foreign Language Center, and Paul

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Speaker 2: James Kreischuk Junior, not to be confused with his father,

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Speaker 2: Paul Senior, a retired Suffolk County police officer, started more

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Speaker 2: than fifty pornographic films that year, mostly in a genre

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Speaker 2: called facial abuse, despite telling an industry publication the year

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Speaker 2: before that he was getting out of the business, calling

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Speaker 2: the work he did in facial abuse the most degrading

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Speaker 2: job he'd ever done. Now, I'm not here to judge

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Speaker 2: anybody's private life. I mean, beyond the premise of the show,

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Speaker 2: I guess, which is kind of me passing some judgement of.

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Speaker 1: These guys' lives.

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Speaker 2: But as far as consensual adult film work, as long

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Speaker 2: as everyone's safe and doing work they've chosen to do,

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Speaker 2: that's not my business. That's not what we're here to

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Speaker 2: figure out. But personally, I'm not very knowledgeable about pornography.

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Speaker 2: I fear I may be outing myself as kind of

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Speaker 2: apprude here, but I wanted to figure out if this

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Speaker 2: was actually as gross as it sounds, or if it

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Speaker 2: just seemed gross to me because it's not my cup

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Speaker 2: of tea. So I had to do some research here

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Speaker 2: that I really wish I had not. I read a

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Speaker 2: few industry blogs, some forums for both performers and consumers,

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Speaker 2: some interviews with performers who worked in the genre and

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Speaker 2: with this particular studio.

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Speaker 1: And some legal documents.

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Speaker 2: According to a definition used by the examining attorney in

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Speaker 2: an official decision by the US Trademark and Patent Office

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Speaker 2: denying a trademark application, the term facial abuse is the

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Speaker 2: act of sexually humiliating your partner by abusing and degrading

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Speaker 2: her face during rough oral sex, by holding her head

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Speaker 2: deep on your genitalia, slapping her face, and talking to

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Speaker 2: her in a degrading manner during the process. And that's

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Speaker 2: the nicest way to describe what I saw. The company

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Speaker 2: seeking that trademark. D and D Media is listed as

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Speaker 2: the production company behind one hundred and ninety two of

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Speaker 2: the three hundred and eighty five credits listed on the

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Speaker 2: Internet Adult Film Database profile for Polly Harker, the alias Kraishak,

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Speaker 2: performed under for thirteen years. I regret every second I

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Speaker 2: spent finding out more about this. I know, I said

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Speaker 2: I'd like to know everything about a guy before I

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Speaker 2: start writing, but I don't actually need to see him naked,

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Speaker 2: and I really didn't expect to see him pour a

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Speaker 2: dog bowl full of a woman's own vomit over her face.

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Speaker 2: This is, unfortunately not the first time my research has

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Speaker 2: led me to see aspiring terrorist's penis, but it is,

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Speaker 2: without a doubt, the worst. Again, I don't want to

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Speaker 2: put my own moral judgment on this aspect of things.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that a guy with a kink that

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Speaker 2: makes my stomach hurt is necessarily evil. So I really

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Speaker 2: did some extra digging here, and I found several women

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Speaker 2: who had done work with dn E Media and with

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Speaker 2: Paul Kreischuk specifically. I had really hoped. As I was

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Speaker 2: gritting my teeth through the videos, I found that the

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Speaker 2: women were just phenomenal actors that they were putting on

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Speaker 2: a convincing show of being terrified of being unable to breathe.

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Speaker 2: I understand there's a market for that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: I hoped that they'd all agreed ahead of time that

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Speaker 2: she would only be pretending to sob and what looked

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Speaker 2: like her desperately trying to get the man to stop

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Speaker 2: was only scripted drama. And maybe that's the case for

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Speaker 2: some of the videos, but several women have come forward

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Speaker 2: over the years to say that was not their experience

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Speaker 2: with D and D media. In twenty eleven, DNE released

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Speaker 2: a facial abuse scene between Kreischuk and a woman performing

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Speaker 2: under the name Clara Bo on the form Adult DVD Talk.

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Speaker 2: Even fans of the genre unsettled, with one user writing

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Speaker 2: they were pretty rough on her, even for fa multiple

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Speaker 2: and hard slaps to the face, prolonged upside down djays

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Speaker 2: both over the shoulder and on the couch, and not

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Speaker 2: one but two body slams. I am sad she even

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Speaker 2: took it for five minutes, let alone ten. Another user

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Speaker 2: responded the editing was weird. They must have had to

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Speaker 2: cut a lot of stuff out so it wouldn't look criminal.

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Speaker 2: I noticed her eyes were closed for the most part

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Speaker 2: of the second half. I wonder if he told her

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Speaker 2: to do that to hide the bloodshot eye. She had

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Speaker 2: on her blog. Claire herself replied to the thread back

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Speaker 2: in twenty eleven, posting, to be honest, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if I can look at it without dredging up the

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Speaker 2: fucked up feelings it gave me. I'm all for some

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Speaker 2: rough sex, I was happy with my scene for public disgrace,

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Speaker 2: and I can't wait for Princess Donna to get back

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Speaker 2: to the USA so I can get it.

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Speaker 1: On bound gang bangs.

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Speaker 2: But facial abuse was exactly what they say in the

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Speaker 2: title abuse with a facial.

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Speaker 1: At the end.

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Speaker 2: So this isn't just a woman who is regretful about

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Speaker 2: her time in the industry or someone who showed up

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Speaker 2: to shoot in a genre she was inexperienced with. She's

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Speaker 2: shot BDSM and kink content. People are getting hurt for real,

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Speaker 2: she wrote in twenty eleven. It's not the same as

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Speaker 2: kink or typical BDSM. In twenty twenty three, she spoke

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Speaker 2: again about the experience with journalist Paul mulholland. She told

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Speaker 2: moholland that there was an agreed upon tap out signal

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Speaker 2: she needed to stop for any reason, but when she

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Speaker 2: tried to stop the scene, she was ignored. I tapped

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Speaker 2: his thighs because I couldn't breathe anymore, and he didn't care.

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Speaker 2: He actually grabbed the back of my head and pulled

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Speaker 2: me closer, and I had to from kneeling push on

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Speaker 2: his thighs, get my feet underneath me, and literally launched

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Speaker 2: my entire body weight backward to get off of him.

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Speaker 2: They didn't cut this from the video. Paul Kryshut, covered

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Speaker 2: in distinctive tattoos, can be seen ignoring BOE's attempt to

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Speaker 2: end the scene as the blood vessels in her eyes burst.

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Speaker 2: A woman who performs as Felicity Feeline says the videos

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Speaker 2: she did for D and E Media are her greatest

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Speaker 2: regret of her nine years in the industry, and she's

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Speaker 2: made several videos about the violent shoots and the subsequent

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Speaker 2: harassment and coercion from the director, though she doesn't name him.

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Speaker 2: Both of the credits on her Internet Adult film Database

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Speaker 2: profile for DNA shoots are videos starring opposite Kraishuk.

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Speaker 3: And that's what their goal is. They want to completely

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Speaker 3: ruin a woman on camera, and they will do anything

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Speaker 3: in their power legally to do it. Maybe they overstep

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Speaker 3: the legal boundaries at points, but that's to be determined

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Speaker 3: by someone in law, because I don't want to go there.

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Speaker 2: In other videos, I sincerely regret watching Kraishuk chokes and

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Speaker 2: slaps a black performer for rating her and calling her

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Speaker 2: racial slurs as she sobs if her experience was anything

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Speaker 2: like Clara's or Felicity's or any of the other women

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Speaker 2: who've come forward about this company not acting. So that's

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Speaker 2: who pol was before all of this starts. His last

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Speaker 2: pornographic film was released in twenty eighteen, so it seems

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Speaker 2: likely he stopped shooting porn in twenty seventeen, which is

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Speaker 2: about when he made the career switch to illegally manufacturing

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Speaker 2: firearms for guys. He met on a Nazi message board

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Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, when Liam Collins was a senior at

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Speaker 2: New Providence High School in a northern New Jersey suburb.

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Speaker 2: He started posting on Iron March.

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Speaker 1: The forum first.

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Speaker 2: Appeared online in twenty eleven, launched by a Russian nationalist

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Speaker 2: named Alisher Mukitnadoff, and in its six years online it

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Speaker 2: was an incubator for neo Nazi ideology around the world.

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Speaker 2: Fascist organizations like National Action in the UK, Adam Waffin,

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Speaker 2: and the us Skidas in Lithuania and Antipodian Resistance in

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Speaker 2: Australia were born on the forum. These and other organizations

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Speaker 2: grew and networked, recruiting online posters into real life terror cells.

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Speaker 2: The site disappeared without explanation one day in November twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 2: The webmaster for The Daily Stormer at the time, Andrew Ahenheimer,

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Speaker 2: perhaps better known as Weave, speculated that there was international

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Speaker 2: pressure to take the site offline after an incident in

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Speaker 2: Florida earlier that year, Adam Woffin founder Brandon Russell was

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Speaker 2: arrested when police found a stash of explosives and bomb

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Speaker 2: making supplies in his garage. The police were only in

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Speaker 2: his garage because his roommate fellow Adam Woffin member Devin

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Speaker 2: Arthur's and Iron March user, the vice of WULFA, told

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Speaker 2: investigators that Russell planned to target infrastructure and synagogues, and

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Speaker 2: Arthur's was only talking to the police because he'd been

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Speaker 2: arrested for murdering their other two roommates, Andrew Onischuk and

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Speaker 2: Jeremy Himmelman, in the apartment the four shared. Now obviously

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Speaker 2: the double murder and the bombing plot are the bigger

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Speaker 2: deal here. But do you just want to point out

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Speaker 2: that Devon should have put a little more effort into

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Speaker 2: the screening. These guys love costplaying the whole Hitler vibe,

240
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Speaker 2: using German words in their handles. But if he's one

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Speaker 2: white wolf, it'd be der weis a wolf. If he's

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Speaker 2: multiple white wolf wolves, it's device in Vilfa. The vice

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Speaker 2: of Volfa isn't anything. I guess it doesn't matter because

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Speaker 2: it'll be twenty five years to life before he logs

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Speaker 2: back on. Other former posters on the Terrorism Training for

246
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Speaker 2: Him believed the Russian government pressured Mukitnadov to take the

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Speaker 2: site offline because users were recruiting and raising money for

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Speaker 2: the Ukrainian Nu Nazi paramilitary group Azov Battalion, which is

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Speaker 2: considered a terrorist organization by the Russian government. A twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty investigation by the Russian language office of PHOEBC News.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't really support that theory.

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Speaker 2: Mkitnadov was still living in Moscow and was never charged

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Speaker 2: by the Russian government, something they would presumably do if

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Speaker 2: they felt he was to blame for funding Asov. Both

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Speaker 2: Mukitnadov and a spokesperson for Azov declined to speak with

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Speaker 2: reporters from the BBC, so, despite speculation from his fans

257
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Speaker 2: that he'd been murdered by Russian intelligence agents, he was

258
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Speaker 2: alive enough in twenty twenty to hang up on a reporter.

259
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Speaker 2: But before the site disappeared, it was a place for

260
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Speaker 2: lonely Nazis to connect and in September of twenty sixteen,

261
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Speaker 2: when Liam Collins was starting his senior year of high school,

262
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Speaker 2: he was already recruiting members for a group project, as

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Speaker 2: he called it, as Niez Gooda. He exchanged messages with

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Speaker 2: a user named Panzerlier, a twenty three year old just

265
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Speaker 2: finishing up a three year stint in the US Army.

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Speaker 2: Colins said he was forming a group that would eventually

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Speaker 2: become a paramilitary organization. He planned to join the Marines

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Speaker 2: after high school to get the training he would need

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Speaker 2: to lead the group, and was looking to recruit members

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Speaker 2: with military and policing experience.

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Speaker 1: I guess Panserliter.

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Speaker 2: Passed the teens Vibe check because he became a member

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Speaker 2: of the Fledgling group. A few years later, when he

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Speaker 2: was outed as an Iron March poster and lost his

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Speaker 2: job at the Lafayette, Indiana Police Department. Joseph Zacharrek would

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Speaker 2: cooperate with federal investigators and testify before the grand jury

277
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Speaker 2: then indicted Collins. The core group really came together when Collins,

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Speaker 2: as Niezgoda, started corresponding with Paul Kreischach, who was posting

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Speaker 2: on Iron March as visions from Patmos. In early twenty seventeen, Collins,

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Speaker 2: still a high school senior, recruited the adult film actor.

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Speaker 1: To the crew.

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Speaker 2: Just a few months later, the growing group took a

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Speaker 2: camping trip together, finally getting offline and meeting in real

284
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Speaker 2: life to discuss their plans for the future. By August,

285
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Speaker 2: Collins had joined the Marine Corps and moved down to

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Speaker 2: Camp Lea. June, on Iron March, he posted that he

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Speaker 2: had a tight knit crew of x mill and security

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Speaker 2: that he was training with, going on hikes and doing

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Speaker 2: live fire exercises. Collins posted that he couldn't really get

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Speaker 2: into specifics online, writing that it's an inner circle thing,

291
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Speaker 2: but it will serve its purpose when the time comes.

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Speaker 2: Think of it as a modern day ss Kryshuck laid

293
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Speaker 2: out his theory of operations in a post on Iron

294
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Speaker 2: March in early twenty seventeen.

295
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Speaker 4: First order of business is knocking down the system, mounting

296
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Speaker 4: it and smashing its face until it has been beaten

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Speaker 4: past the point of death. Eventually we will have to

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Speaker 4: bring the rifles out and go to work. We will

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Speaker 4: have to hit the streets and strike as many blows

300
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Speaker 4: to the remaining power structure as we can. Keep it

301
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Speaker 4: on the ropes, forget the ponds, and go for the knights, kings,

302
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Speaker 4: and queens. Second order of business is the seizing of

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Speaker 4: territory and the Balkanization of North America. Buying property in

304
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,200
Speaker 4: remote areas that are already predominantly white and right leaning,

305
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:20,560
Speaker 4: networking with locals, training, farming, and stockpiling. Essentially, we are

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Speaker 4: laying the framework for a guerrilla organization and a takeover

307
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Speaker 4: of local government and industry. Start buying property now in

308
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Speaker 4: the types of regions mentioned above, and get to work

309
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Speaker 4: on building your own group. As time goes on in

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Speaker 4: this conflict, we will expand our territories and slowly take

311
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Speaker 4: back the land that is rightfully ours. As we build

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Speaker 4: our forces in our numbers, we will move into the

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Speaker 4: urban areas and clear them out. This will be a

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Speaker 4: ground we're very reminiscent of Iraq, as we will essentially

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Speaker 4: be facing an insurgent force made up of criminals and

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Speaker 4: gang members.

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Speaker 1: And he meant it.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to give these guys credit for anything,

319
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,040
Speaker 2: but you can't say he didn't mean it. A lot

320
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,520
Speaker 2: of guys talk like this online, but they don't all

321
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Speaker 2: start an illegal amateur gunsmithing operation and move to Idaho.

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Speaker 2: It's not entirely clear when Paul Kreischuk started making his

323
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,920
Speaker 2: own guns. The earliest payment listed across the slew of

324
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Speaker 2: indictments as a transfer from one of his co conspirators,

325
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Speaker 2: Joseph Marino, to Paul Kreischuk, in September of twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: The documents don't clearly spell out what that payment was for,

327
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Speaker 2: but all the other money transfers discussed in the indictments

328
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,120
Speaker 2: are linked to shipments of firearms or their components. Kreishak

329
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,480
Speaker 2: had recruited Marino to join the group earlier that year.

330
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Speaker 2: In February of twenty eighteen, according to testimony from John Little,

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Speaker 2: the investigator from the Naval Criminal Investigative Services assigned to

332
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Speaker 2: this case, Marino had attempted to join Identity Europa, a

333
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,359
Speaker 2: now defunct white supremacist organization earlier that year, so he

334
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,240
Speaker 2: was clearly shopping around for the right fit, just looking

335
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,960
Speaker 2: for the right Nazi group for his interests. Little's testimony

336
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:57,719
Speaker 2: doesn't elaborate on this at all, but I did go

337
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 2: on a bit of a fishing trip to see what

338
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,840
Speaker 2: I could find about this my own. He didn't find

339
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,399
Speaker 2: anything terribly satisfying, but he did find a single message.

340
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Speaker 2: In the discord leaks published by Unicorn Riot in February

341
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,399
Speaker 2: of twenty eighteen, a user posted in the identity Europa

342
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,399
Speaker 2: Discord's new member chat, Hey I'm Joseph from New Jersey.

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Speaker 2: My interviewer was aj But a YouTube channel with the

344
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 2: same username has playlists that includes several videos of cops

345
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 2: getting shot, a genre of video mentioned in the court records.

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00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,879
Speaker 2: Apparently the crew liked to watch things like this as

347
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 2: part of their training, preparing to fight police to the

348
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,560
Speaker 2: death if the time came, and critiquing the way the

349
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 2: officers reacted to getting shot, saying things like a true

350
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,159
Speaker 2: warrior wouldn't show pain. That YouTube account also added a

351
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,720
Speaker 2: video to a playlist about how National Guardsmen can prepare

352
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,640
Speaker 2: for overseas deployment at around the same time that Marino's

353
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,120
Speaker 2: National Guard unit did deploy to Cutter in twenty nineteen.

354
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Speaker 2: So I can't tell you with ironclad certainty that the

355
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Speaker 2: discord post I found is the one the investigator was

356
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Speaker 2: talking about, but it seems like a pretty solid fit.

357
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,119
Speaker 2: And I guess Identity EUROPEO wasn't a good fit because

358
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 2: he never posted there again. But back to the guns,

359
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,639
Speaker 2: because that's where all of this started. In April of

360
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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, investigators with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service NCIS

361
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,040
Speaker 2: sat down with that confidential witness, the guy who wanted

362
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 2: to use his COVID bucks to buy a glock. When

363
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 2: Liam Collins tried to persuade him to purchase the weapon

364
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,320
Speaker 2: from him instead of going to a store in town,

365
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,440
Speaker 2: Collins showed the potential customer videos of the kinds of

366
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Speaker 2: equipment he could get. The video showed a man with

367
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Speaker 2: very distinctive tattoos firing a pistol with a homemade silencer.

368
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 2: John Little, the NCIS agent, later testified that they wanted

369
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,440
Speaker 2: to find photos of Kryshuk that would show that part

370
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 2: of his arm to determine if Kraishuk was the man

371
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,880
Speaker 2: in the video. Obviously they had his driver's license photo,

372
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,439
Speaker 2: but you can't see his tattoos in any of the

373
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Speaker 2: photos the government already had.

374
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Speaker 1: So he set off to do a little.

375
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Speaker 2: Open source research online and what he found was Paully Harker.

376
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,400
Speaker 1: So this NCIS.

377
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,879
Speaker 2: Agent absolutely watched some of the same pornographic videos I

378
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,199
Speaker 2: had to watch while researching this, and you can probably

379
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 2: guess that you can definitely see the tattoos in the video.

380
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,439
Speaker 2: And given that this initial interview was with NCIS, not

381
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Speaker 2: the FBI, we can guess that this confidential witness was

382
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Speaker 2: likely a fellow marine, So credit where credit is due,

383
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,399
Speaker 2: I guess at least one marine in this story was

384
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Speaker 2: offered the chance to do crimes of the Nazi and said,

385
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Speaker 2: I think I got to talk to somebody about this

386
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Speaker 2: instead of sign me up. And the NCIS investigators were

387
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,640
Speaker 2: probably very pleased to hear their new cooperating witness say

388
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 2: the name Liam Collins. Just a few months earlier, they'd

389
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 2: tried to talk to Collins himself about something else. When

390
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 2: the contents of the defunct Iron March forum were leaked

391
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 2: online in late twenty nineteen, Collins was quickly identified in

392
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 2: the data Newsweek published an article on November eighth, twenty nineteen,

393
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 2: identifying Collins as an active duty marine whose Iron March

394
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,719
Speaker 2: posts were riddled with slurs and plans to create his

395
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 2: own paramilitary force. When NCIS investigators attempted to interview him

396
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 2: about the allegations in the article, he asked for an

397
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 2: attorney and declined to comment. There's no information available about

398
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 2: what follow up occurred internally between that November interview and

399
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 2: this confidential witness coming forward in April, but I really

400
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 2: want to believe that they were developing their own investigation

401
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 2: into Collins during that time before this gift fell into

402
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 2: an elapse. Instead of arresting Collins immediately for trying to

403
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 2: sell an illegal silencer to this witness, they set up

404
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 2: a meeting. They needed their cooperating witness to actually buy

405
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 2: the gun. Offering to sell it to him wasn't enough.

406
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: They needed him on record making the transaction, and so

407
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 2: on April twenty fourth, twenty twenty, the cooperating witness transferred

408
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 2: fifty teen hundred dollars provided to him by the government

409
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 2: to Collins for the pistol and the silencer. Collins told

410
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 2: the buyer that the money would then be transferred to

411
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 2: someone he had done many similar deals with, someone he's

412
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 2: known for years and trusts completely, even showing the witness

413
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 2: the Venmo account he was sending the money to. The

414
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 2: Venmo account was under the actual name for the man

415
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 2: who would fulfill the order, Paul Kreischuk. An affidavit written

416
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 2: for a search warrant later that summer says investigators were

417
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 2: then able to follow that money. They went into Kreischuk's

418
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 2: personal bank account, and he then used that money to

419
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 2: make several purchases for the materials he'd need to fulfill

420
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 2: the order.

421
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: Now, I'm not a gun guy.

422
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 2: Gun guys are some of the most pedantic little nerds

423
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 2: on the planet, and so I'm going to say this preemptively.

424
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 2: I do not want you to explain gun guy stuff

425
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 2: to me. I did some research, and I consulted a

426
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 2: couple of gun guys I know, and this is correct

427
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 2: enough for us all to make it through the episode.

428
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 2: One of the things Kreishuk purchased with the government's money

429
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 2: from this controlled buy was called a solvent trap. If you,

430
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 2: like me, are not a gun guy, you don't know

431
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 2: what that is. So I was looking online websites where

432
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 2: you can buy solvent traps, and the odd copy on

433
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: these websites seems convincing enough. It's a little tube you

434
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 2: can screw onto the end of your gun when you're

435
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,879
Speaker 2: cleaning it, and its alleged purpose is to collect the

436
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 2: excess solvent that's used to clean the weapon. So convenient, right,

437
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 2: But as I read through some of these sites, it

438
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 2: felt like I was being lied to. If this is

439
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 2: such a necessary object that everyone needs every time they

440
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 2: clean their gun, why haven't they always existed? Why have

441
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 2: I never heard of this being an issue that every

442
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 2: gun owner is facing every day, big puddles of solvent

443
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 2: every time you clean your gun. And I feel like

444
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 2: I've seen people clean guns inside. If this is something

445
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 2: that makes a large mess with a volatile chemical, surely

446
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 2: you wouldn't do it inside. So I asked some gun guys,

447
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 2: it's not a thing. Nobody uses a solvent trap to

448
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 2: clean a gun. It's a flimsy gus story for an

449
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 2: object that can be easily modified with minimal skill to

450
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: create a homemade silencer. And silencers are not completely illegal.

451
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: It's very possible to own one legally, but you have

452
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 2: to do some paperwork and pay some money and wait

453
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 2: a little while, and then of course the government knows

454
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 2: you have it, and they are banned at the state level,

455
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 2: and a handful of states, including New York, New Jersey,

456
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 2: and Rhode Island, three states where we'll see him making

457
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 2: or shipping them to. So based on the information they

458
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 2: got from this controlled buy with their cooperating witness, they

459
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 2: now know that Liam Collins is selling guns and silencers

460
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 2: in North Carolina. He's sending that money to Paul Kreyschuk

461
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 2: and Idaho, and then Kryshuck is doing a little amateur gunsmithing,

462
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: and then he's putting these guns in the mail. And

463
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 2: now this isn't arts and crafts between friends or small

464
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 2: business entrepreneurship. That's gun trafficking. And they already know Collins

465
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 2: was active on Iron March. They've tried asking him about it,

466
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 2: and the investigation quickly leads them to kreischuk'sccount and the

467
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: Iron March data too, and then to the conversations that

468
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 2: Collins and Kreishach had been having together about creating a

469
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 2: modern dass about buying land to the Pacific Northwest, about

470
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 2: recruiting people with military backgrounds for a coming domestic conflict

471
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 2: about arming themselves. Kishak had recently moved from New York

472
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 2: to Idaho, and he's making guns. This plan is already

473
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 2: in motion. Based on the package they could confirm was

474
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: the result of their controlled buy, investigators discovered that Kreischuk

475
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: was using a fake driver's license with the name Sean

476
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 2: Corkoran to rent a private mailbox in Idaho, and their

477
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: cooperating witness was far from the only person receiving packages

478
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 2: from this Shan Corkoran. Financial records for Collins and Kreishuk

479
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 2: showed numerous similar transactions involving the pair with apparent buyers,

480
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: many of whom were identifiable as other Iron March posters

481
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: or other active duty Marines. Investigators obtained warrants to intercept

482
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: a trio of packages from that adres in Idaho and

483
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: addressed to another marine in Collins's unit. Inside they found

484
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 2: a pistol with no serial number and a silencer with

485
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 2: the parts distributed across the three boxes. I guess so

486
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 2: it would be less suspicious, I don't know. A few

487
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 2: days later there was another trio of packages with the

488
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 2: same contents. Both times, investigators opened the packages, documented their contents,

489
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: packed them back up and.

490
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: Put them back in the mail. So just because you

491
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: haven't been caught doesn't mean you're not caught. Right.

492
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: You see this in a lot of investigations where they

493
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: know exactly what you're doing, and they're watching you do it,

494
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: and they're letting you do it enough times to get

495
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 2: yourself in deeper trouble. So don't think that just because

496
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 2: the package with your illegal gun arrived that it's all

497
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: good now. So the packages go back in the mail,

498
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 2: and then they waited outside the post.

499
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: Office to see who picked them up.

500
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 2: Physical surveillance showed Justin Hermannson, a marine in Collins unit,

501
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: and another member of this Nazi paramilitary pick up one

502
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 2: set of those packages. A few days later, when NCIS

503
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 2: conducted another controlled meat with their cooperating witness, it was

504
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 2: Hermanson who arrived to hand over the gun to the buyer.

505
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 2: So they're kind of dead to rights here on the

506
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 2: firearm trafficking. Collins and Kraaishak, and to a lesser degree Hermanson,

507
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 2: have all participated in this scheme to make ship and

508
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 2: sell these guns and silencers. But now it's becoming clear

509
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: that there's something else going on here. In July Liam

510
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 2: Collins bought a plane ticket to fly to Boise. Joseph Morino,

511
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: that National guardsman in New Jersey who had made his

512
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 2: own transfers directly to Kaishak the year before, bought a

513
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 2: plane ticket too, and Jordan Duncan, a former Marine who

514
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: had also made several transfers to Kaishak corresponding with packages

515
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: mailed to him and his brother in Texas, was surveilled

516
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 2: driving from San Antonio to Idaho and unloading a large

517
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: number of very heavy boxes from his car into Kaishuk's garage.

518
00:27:58,880 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: What are they doing?

519
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: The investigators got a warrant to track Liam Collins's location

520
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: by his cell phone during this trip, but he ultimately

521
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 2: did not go. This was July twenty, twenty lifetime ago.

522
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: There were pandemic related restrictions for active duty Marines that

523
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 2: prevented him from traveling, but Joseph Marino, Jordan Duncan, and

524
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 2: Liam Collins's little brother Tate did make the trip. FBI

525
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 2: agents surveiled the group when they met in Boise. Photos

526
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 2: and videos were covered from the men's phones show them

527
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 2: wearing the skull print half face mask closely associated with

528
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 2: Adam Woffen. At the time shooting their guns and posing

529
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: for group photos giving the Nazi salute. During that visit,

530
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: they conducted several live fire training exercises out in the

531
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: middle of nowhere. In August of twenty twenty, investigators installed

532
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: a pole camera outside the post office near Camp La June,

533
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: where Collins and Hermanson were picking up these packages. They

534
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 2: considered installing a pole camera outside Joseph Marino's home in

535
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: New Jersey, probably to document the deliveries of stolen military

536
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 2: equipment that Collins was having dropped off by a third party,

537
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: but the lighting was no good and the camera never

538
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: went up. They conducted another controlled by with their cooperating witness,

539
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: this time having the witness purchase a short barreled rifle

540
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: and another silencer and confirming the details of the purchase

541
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 2: over FaceTime with Collins. They got another warrant to track

542
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 2: Liam Collins using his cell phone, and they got warrants

543
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: for the iCloud accounts belonging to Paul Kreischuk, Jordan Duncan,

544
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: Justin Hermanson, Liam Collins, and Tate Collins. Joseph Marino was

545
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: sparing that particular intrusion. The affidavit notes that he was

546
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: a Samsung user, so he did not have an iCloud account,

547
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: And now, unbeknownst to them, they are on a collision

548
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: course with a federal indictment, and at the same time,

549
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 2: they're ready to move past just mailing each other guns.

550
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: They're ready to move on to the next phase. In August,

551
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 2: Jordan Duncan and Paul Kreischuk were chatting about Duncan's upcoming

552
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: move to Boise. Kraischuk tells Duncan to go ahead and

553
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: follow BLM Boise on Instagram because he's been getting a

554
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 2: lot of really good intelligence from their posts, and Duncan writes,

555
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: I'm like four weeks away from being there. Fam been

556
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 2: thinking a lot more about stuff you and I need

557
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: to be doing, and Kaishuk tells him playtime is over,

558
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: writing he is looking forward to you getting out here

559
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 2: so we can get shit done.

560
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: Duncan replies, Yeah, I feel you.

561
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: The closer I get to it, the more I think

562
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 2: about everything we have to do, and brother, we are

563
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 2: going to have to move some mountains. In September twenty twenty,

564
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 2: Jordan Duncan takes a pretty serious pay cut to take

565
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 2: a job up in Idaho and moves up to Boise

566
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: to be near Kraishuk. Liam Collins is discharged from the

567
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: Marines and sets off on a road trip that includes

568
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 2: a stop in New Jersey to speak with Joseph Marino

569
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: in person. In October, Justin Hermanson recruits another marine to

570
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: the group. Collins instructs this new member to buy a

571
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: bunch of ten right and explosive that can be ignited

572
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 2: by shooting at it. Paul Kreischuk was preparing to take

573
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: the entrance exam to become a firefighter in Boise, and

574
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: Liam Collins moves to Idaho, moving in with Jordan Duncan

575
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 2: and Boise. On October sixteenth, twenty twenty, Joseph Zakerk, that

576
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: police officer in Indiana is publicly identified in the Iron

577
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: Marsh Leaks. He is immediately fired and so just days

578
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 2: before Jordan Duncan, Liam Collins, and Paul Kreischuk are arrested.

579
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 2: They don't know they're about to be arrested. They're all

580
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: in the group chat urging Zacharic to just move out

581
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: to Boise to be with them. You know you've lost

582
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: your job, you don't have anything else to do right now.

583
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: Just come on out here with us. But after being

584
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: publicly outed and losing his job, Zachark just wants out altogether.

585
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: It's just not worth it anymore, and he later tells

586
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: federal agents that he's very worried the group will think

587
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: that he talked to the cops, which is I guess

588
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 2: kind of a silly thing to worry about, because he

589
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: was a cop until the day before this, But I

590
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 2: guess he means other cops and about this. So the

591
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: more they insist that you have to come out here.

592
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 2: You're not allowed to leave the group, you have to

593
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 2: come out here to be with us, the more scared

594
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: he gets that they only want him to come out

595
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: to Boise so they can kill him. And that's the

596
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: week the first indictment came down, and it's only for

597
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 2: Liam Collins and Paul Kreishak, and they're only charged with

598
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: the gun trafficking. The Feds pick up Jordan Duncan the

599
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 2: same day, charging him with conspiracy.

600
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: He was arrested as.

601
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 2: He walked across the parking lot on his way into

602
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: work that morning. A dozen agents through flash bangs before

603
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: rushing him, and on the day of that arrest, all

604
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: the Feds know for sure is that these guys are

605
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: making and mailing guns, and that they have these extremist views.

606
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 2: It's not illegal to have those extremist views. You can't

607
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: arrest them for having those views. But if you know

608
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 2: they're trafficking those guns to members of their Nazi paramilitary group,

609
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: there are going to be some follow up quests that

610
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 2: aren't about the National Firearms Act. And right around the

611
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: time of these first arrests, investigators interview Maxwell Womack, the

612
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: most recent recruit to the organization, the one who bought

613
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 2: all that tannerite. Justin Hermanson had recruited this fellow marine

614
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: just weeks before the indictment. He's only mentioned by name

615
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: a few times. It looks like he came into things

616
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: right there at the end and hadn't necessarily broken the

617
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: law yet and was very cooperative during the investigation. And

618
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: they also interviewed Joseph Zacherik, the cop with Cold Feet.

619
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: He too was cooperative and was never charged in connection

620
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: with the group's activities. And both of these men tell

621
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 2: investigators in October of twenty twenty that their former friends

622
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 2: had talked a lot about attacking the power grid. They

623
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 2: were obsessed with the Metcalf sniper attacked as still unsolved

624
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 2: incident in twenty thirteen, where a small team of gunmen

625
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: damaged seventeen transformers at the Metcalf transmission substation outside of

626
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 2: San Jose, California. The attack failed to actually take out

627
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: power to the area, but it did cost fifteen million

628
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 2: dollars in damage. And it's a source of great fascination

629
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: for a certain kind of guy, a guy who wants

630
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 2: to turn out the lights. It's sort of proof of

631
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: concept that you can take out a substation with just

632
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 2: a rifle. And when they arrested Paul Kreischak, they found

633
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,959
Speaker 2: a piece of paper in his wallet. On one side

634
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: there was a handwritten list of intersections. Each intersection corresponded

635
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: to the location of a piece of critical infrastructure for

636
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 2: the power grid in Idaho, Oregon, Washington, and California. And

637
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 2: on the other side there were a dozen names. The

638
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: people on the list were mostly local and state politicians.

639
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 2: It included the governor of Oregon and a California state

640
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: representative who happens to be both gay and Jewish. Alicia Garza,

641
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: a co founder of the Black Lives Matter movement, posted

642
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: a tweet that week that the FBI had visited her

643
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: home to inform her that her name was on the list.

644
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: Investigative journalist Jim Laporta has also posted that he received

645
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 2: a similar visit in late twenty twenty. Physical surveillance conducted

646
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 2: prior to these first arrests, along with the information they

647
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: got back from the warrant for the iCloud accounts, did

648
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 2: provide investigators with some idea that the group was considering

649
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: using those guns they were making. Investigators noted that their

650
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 2: observation of the recordings of the live fire drill the

651
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: group got together for in July showed offensive tactics, so

652
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 2: they're not just out there target shooting. They were drilling

653
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 2: in the kinds of paramilitary tactics you would use to

654
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 2: carry out an offensive attack. Liam Collins's younger brother, still

655
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: in high school at the time, recorded a video of

656
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: Black Lives Matter rally from a high vantage point. He

657
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 2: sent the group a photo he took while surveilling the rally,

658
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 2: superimposing a swastika over the picture and captioning it if

659
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 2: only they knew. In late July, Paul Kreischuk was seen

660
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: sitting in his car observing a Black Lives Matter rally

661
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 2: at Boise State University, then slowly circling it several times

662
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: before driving off. A month later, he was seen again

663
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: sitting in his car across the street from a park

664
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: in Boys where a rally was being held. Activists and

665
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 2: Idaho were understandably outraged when they found out that the

666
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 2: FBI had simply watched this man as he watched them,

667
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 2: knowing he was considering opening fire on them. It seems

668
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: the full extent of the plan was only really uncovered

669
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: after the arrests in October. With the first three members

670
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 2: of the cell and custody, they now had full access

671
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 2: to the men's phones and computers. In early October, Duncan

672
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 2: and Kryshuk discussed shooting members of the local Black Lives

673
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: Matter chapter. Videos were also found on Joseph Marino's phone

674
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 2: indicating that he had been surveilling Black Lives Matter rallies

675
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: in his area that summer too. In one conversation that summer,

676
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 2: the height of the uprising after George Floyd's murder, Paul

677
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 2: Kryschuk texted the group a photo of a BLM flyer

678
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: he'd torn down in Boise. He said they should come

679
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 2: up with something else. To put up in its place.

680
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 2: Joseph Morino replied, the lights will turn off, and so

681
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 2: will you. It's a bit of a clunky slogan. I

682
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 2: might have workshopped that a little bit. I was in

683
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 2: charge of propaganda for the Nazi terror cell, but it

684
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: describes the group's ultimate plan. They hoped to do something

685
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: like the Metcalf sniper attack, and then, under cover of darkness,

686
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 2: with emergency responders tied up with car accidents and medical

687
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 2: emergencies that would ensue during a blackout, they would carry

688
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 2: out a series of targeted assassinations. Searches of Kaishak's devices

689
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 2: indicated he had already compiled information about the whereabouts of

690
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 2: many of the names on his list. The group had

691
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: discussed the most efficient ways of killing their targets, working

692
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 2: out the logistics of placing car bombs. As Kraischuk wrote

693
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: to other members of the group, the final frontier is

694
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 2: real life violence. Liam Collins had been stealing military gear

695
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 2: from Camp Lajune for years, so when the time came,

696
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 2: they'd be outfitted in military grade body armour. It wasn't

697
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 2: until August of twenty twenty one that the Department of

698
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 2: Justice actually filed a charge against the men for this

699
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 2: particular element of the plot. The first indictment in October

700
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 2: twenty twenty charged Kaishak and Collins with a firearm trafficking.

701
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 2: Duncan was arrested at the same time in charge with

702
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 2: a conspiracy. The week of those arrests, they tried to

703
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: speak with Joseph Marino and he was arrested on state

704
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 2: level charges in New Jersey for having an unseerialized lower

705
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 2: receiver that's the part of the gun that makes it

706
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: legally a gun. According to the government, I don't know,

707
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 2: not a gun guy, and they interviewed Justin Hermanson. According

708
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 2: to Joseph Marino's attorney, Herminson was offered an out by

709
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: the agents who spoke to him in October. They told him, hey,

710
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 2: you've got a chance to help yourself out here, and

711
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 2: that may have been true. A lot of the men

712
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,240
Speaker 2: involved in this plot never got charged. People who made

713
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 2: purchases or picked up a package. Maxwell Womack who bought

714
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: the Tannerite, A lot of men who cooperated and weren't

715
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 2: central to the plot did not get charged. And again,

716
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 2: according to Marino's lawyer, Herminson did talk to the agents

717
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 2: at that time specifically about how involved Marino had been

718
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 2: in these crimes. But either Herminson wasn't that helpful or

719
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 2: the agents just didn't realize the time in October the

720
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 2: extent to which he'd been involved in the gun running scheme,

721
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 2: because a month later, in November of twenty twenty, there's

722
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 2: a second indictment, the first superseding indictment. The term superseding

723
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 2: indictment will be familiar to you if you have any

724
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 2: involvement with the courts or if you've just been following

725
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 2: the Trump criminal cases closely, but it just means they

726
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 2: got the grand jury back together to issue a new

727
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: indictment in a case based on some new information. It

728
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 2: could involve adding new charges or new defendants, and in

729
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: this case we got both. So in this second indictment,

730
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 2: we've got way more details about the specific transactions, the

731
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 2: money transfers and the gun shipments. And now in addition

732
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 2: to Kryshak and Collins, Jordan Duncan and Justin Hermanson are charged.

733
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 2: But we're still just talking about firearm trafficking. And there's

734
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 2: this conspiracy element now making a new allegation that they're

735
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 2: engaged in this conspiracy to traffic these guns for a

736
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: criminal purpose, with the intent being to provoke civil disorder.

737
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 2: And here's where we finally get the government talking about

738
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 2: them stalking the blm rallies and talking privately about shooting protesters.

739
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: The following year, in June of twenty twenty one, a

740
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 2: second superseding indictment comes down, and now all five of

741
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: these men have been charged, Paul Kreischuk, Liam Collins, Justin Hermanson,

742
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: Jordan Duncan, and now Joseph Marino. And they've known all

743
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: along that Marino went to Boise in July twenty twenty

744
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 2: to participate in the training drill. And they've known all

745
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 2: along that Marino was recruited to the group by Kraishuk

746
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen, and that he transferred money to Kraishuk

747
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen.

748
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: It's unclear exactly when.

749
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 2: They determined that Marino had been as Collins was engaging

750
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 2: in a little bit of his own deal making, selling

751
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: guns to people, getting their money and then sending that

752
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 2: money and the order to Kryshuk to fulfill. But that's

753
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: what's newly alleged in this second superseding indictment. So now

754
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 2: they're all charged for this conspiracy to manufacture and ship

755
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 2: firearms with the intent to cause civil disorder. And then finally,

756
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: in August of twenty twenty one, the third superseding indictment

757
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 2: charges four of them Rreisch, Collins, Marino, and Duncan, but

758
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 2: not Hermitsen, with conspiracy to damage an energy facility.

759
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: And I guess they.

760
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 2: Should explain a little bit about the idea that taking

761
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: out a power grid is a rational first step for

762
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 2: starting a race war. It's maybe not something that makes

763
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: perfect intuitive sense to someone who doesn't have a dozen

764
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 2: manifestos about it on.

765
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: Their hard drive.

766
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: FBI, if you were listening, these are research materials. I

767
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 2: actually really hate it when the power goes out, but

768
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 2: it's an incredibly common belief.

769
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: At least in certain circles.

770
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 2: The general idea for many of them is that a

771
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: massive blackout would cause chaos. That's reasonable enough, perhaps, And

772
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 2: most people who think that this is a good idea

773
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 2: are accelerationists, people who believe that society is already unstable,

774
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: and instead of trying to fix it or realize their

775
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 2: vision of what it could look like within the current structure,

776
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: they believe that the best course of action is to

777
00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: force it to collapse. You accelerate the destabilization of society,

778
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 2: you push it over the brink and into complete collapse

779
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 2: so you can rebuild it from the rubble. And their

780
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 2: vision of what is to be built from the ashes

781
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 2: is usually pretty bad spoiler alert, A lot of us

782
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 2: are not alive in it. The general idea is actually

783
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 2: predicated on a false assumption that in a blackout, when

784
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 2: resources are restricted and there is confusion and chaos and

785
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 2: we can't get what we need, that will turn on

786
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 2: each other immediately, that we will turn to violence immediately,

787
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 2: that we will riot and steal and kill because we've

788
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 2: been inconvenienced. But a lot of the documentation we have

789
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 2: from real natural disasters shows us evidence to the contrary.

790
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: When disaster strikes, we don't turn on each other. Psychologists

791
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 2: and sociologists have terms like catastrophe compassion, and disaster collectivism

792
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 2: to describe the phenomenon, and research shows that this conventional

793
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: wisdom that people turn on each other in a crisis

794
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 2: is just not true, at least in the short term.

795
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 2: Disasters actually bring us together. But I suppose if you're

796
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: an aspiring neo Nazi terrorist, you don't have the same

797
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 2: understanding of love and human compassion as your neighbors do,

798
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 2: so the plan maybe makes sense to you. Attacks or

799
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 2: attempted ones anyway on electrical infrastructure are alarmingly common in

800
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: right wing extremism. In early twenty twenty two, the Department

801
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: of Homeland Security shared an intelligence bulletin with law enforcement

802
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 2: agencies and utility operators that there had been a marked

803
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 2: uptick in attacks on electrical infrastructure since twenty twenty, writing

804
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 2: domestic violent extremists have developed credible, specific plans to attack

805
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,280
Speaker 2: electricity infrastructure since at least twenty twenty, identifying the electric

806
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 2: grid as a particularly attractive target given its interdependency with

807
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 2: other infrastructure sectors. Several news outlets lengthy uptick and the

808
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 2: resulting bulletins, specifically to a fourteen page zene styled document

809
00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 2: circulating on Telegram, a messaging platform favored by extremists, And honestly,

810
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: I've got a copy of that one, I know, which

811
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: when they're talking about it doesn't really provide any actionable

812
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 2: instructions you couldn't come up with on your own. It

813
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 2: doesn't map out a specific attack. It just sort of

814
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: advances the idea that attacks like this are good. It's flashy, though,

815
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 2: I'll give it that. It's got a lot of colors

816
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: and fonts. Terrible fonts, really bad use of fonts. Honestly,

817
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 2: one page is just a diagram of the wound patterns

818
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: from Sharon Tate's autopsy that does actually make a certain

819
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 2: kind of sense. But I fear we'll have to save

820
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: the pen pal relationship between Charles Manson and neo Nazi

821
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: James Mason for another episode. But this document, cited by

822
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 2: DHS officials as part of their concern of the rising

823
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 2: threats to the grid, tells the reader to be a

824
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 2: man of action to topple this anti white system through

825
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 2: a variety of means, including attacking the power grid.

826
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 1: The pamphlet writes, but with.

827
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 4: The power off, when the lights don't come back on,

828
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 4: all hell will break loose, making conditions desirable for our

829
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 4: race to once again take back what is ours.

830
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,439
Speaker 2: While these attacks can end up costing millions of dollars, and,

831
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 2: according to experts, could theoretically in certain circumstances, trigger catastrophic

832
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 2: cascading grid failures that would take months to repair, they've

833
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 2: never actually cost a race war. In nineteen ninety nine,

834
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: three members of the San Joaquin Militia, an anti government

835
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 2: extremist group, plotted to blow up a pair of tanks,

836
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 2: each holding twelve million gallons of propane because they thought

837
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 2: the ensuing chaos would force the government to declare martial law,

838
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 2: which I guess in their minds would inspire more people

839
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 2: to join the militia movement to then fight the government.

840
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 2: So these militia groups are terrified that the government would

841
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: declare martial law, and so in order to prove to

842
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 2: people that the government could do that, they're going to

843
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 2: make them do that. I don't know, I don't know

844
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,919
Speaker 2: what it's going on in their minds. That same year,

845
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: Donald Beauregard, the leader of a militia group called the

846
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 2: Southeastern States Alliance, was arrested for a plan to steal

847
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 2: explosives from National Guard armory to blow up power transmission

848
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: stations in Florida. He too, hoped a government crackdown in

849
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 2: response to the disaster would inspire a popular uprising and

850
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 2: subsequent violent revolution. And remember Brandon Russell, the Iron March

851
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,240
Speaker 2: poster who founded Adam Offfen when his roommate Devon Arthur's

852
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 2: murdered the other two men they lived with in twenty seventeen.

853
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 2: Arthur's told the police that Russell had plans to take

854
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 2: out critical infrastructure. Tampa police searched the apartment mainly because

855
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 2: there were two dead guys inside from the double murder,

856
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 2: and they found a cooler full of a white cake

857
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 2: like substance that FBI technicians on scene recognized as hexamethylene

858
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 2: triperoxide diamine or HMTD, an explosive compound, and they found

859
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 2: other precursor materials for making explosives and homemade detonators, radioactive materials,

860
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: a framed photo of Timothy McVeigh on Russell's dresser, and

861
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 2: assorted neo Nazi propaganda materials.

862
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: The Tampa police spoke to Brandon Russell.

863
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 2: He told them, yes, I'm a Nazi, Yes I'm a

864
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 2: member of Adam Offfen, but no, no, that cooler full

865
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 2: of HMTD is actually for model rocketry. The Tampa police

866
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 2: let him go, but the FBI immediately contacted the ATF

867
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 2: with the details of the materials they'd found in the apartment,

868
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 2: and the ATF said, yeah, that's that's bombs. You let

869
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,760
Speaker 2: the bomb Nazi go, So they immediately issued a federal

870
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: warrant for Russell the following day. He ultimately pled guilty

871
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 2: to possessing an unregistered explosive device and was sentenced to

872
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: five years. He was out barely a year before he

873
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 2: started conspiring to blow up critical infrastructure in Baltimore, so

874
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 2: he is back in federal prison now well. He allegedly

875
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: conspired to take out the power in Baltimore. I guess

876
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 2: he hasn't been tried yet. Christopher Cook and Jonathan Frost

877
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 2: were sentence last for a plot to attack the power

878
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 2: grid in multiple US cities. They too, believed the ensuing

879
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,399
Speaker 2: chaos would spark the race war and that society could

880
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 2: be rebuilt by and four white men. And there have

881
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 2: been at least four unsolved attacks on electrical infrastructure in

882
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 2: North Carolina in the last two years, including a November

883
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two incident that left thousands without power in

884
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,839
Speaker 2: Jones County, not far from Camp La June. A month later,

885
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 2: in December of twenty twenty two, a woman died as

886
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: a result of the power outage in Moore County. Because

887
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: her death was a direct result of the attack on

888
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 2: the infrastructure, her death has been ruled a homicide, so

889
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 2: if they ever do charge someone for the attack on

890
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:41,359
Speaker 2: that substation, they'll probably catch that murder charge too. In

891
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 2: February of twenty twenty two, Paul Kreishak pled guilty to

892
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 2: conspiracy to destroy an energy facility. His plea agreement dropped

893
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: all the other charges, even though, if you've been able

894
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: to follow along this convoluted mess of a story, he's

895
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 2: actually the one who made and mailed all of those guns.

896
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: He was sentenced last month to six years and six months.

897
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 2: Justin Hermanson was the next to plead, taking an agreement

898
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 2: in March twenty twenty two, and was sentenced last month

899
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 2: to one year and nine months for conspiracy to manufacture

900
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 2: firearms and ship interstate. Joseph Marino took a plea deal

901
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 2: a month later, in April twenty twenty two, pleading guilty

902
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 2: to the same charge, a single count of conspiracy to

903
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 2: manufacture firearms and ship interstate. Oddly, he doesn't have a

904
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 2: sentencing date that I can find. He's been out on

905
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 2: bond since that August twenty twenty one indictment, and after

906
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,439
Speaker 2: he pled guilty, they set a sentencing date for July

907
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, but it was postponed indefinitely after a

908
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 2: sealed motion was filed. It's possible they needed his cooperation

909
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 2: in the cases against his co defendants, and pending that cooperation,

910
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 2: they postponed sentencing so they could consider that help in

911
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: deciding his punishment. I should stop trying to guess why

912
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 2: the Department of Justice times their paperwork the way they do.

913
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: It's too hard, usually fruitless, and even if I'm ridal

914
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: never know, I just can't help it, I guess. Liam

915
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 2: Collins was the fourth to plead guilty. In October twenty

916
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,320
Speaker 2: twenty three, he pled guilty to one count of aiding

917
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 2: and a betting the interstate transportation of unregistered firearms. He

918
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 2: was sentenced last month to ten years. Then finally, in

919
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,359
Speaker 2: June twenty twenty four, Jordan Duncan pled guilty to one

920
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 2: count of aiding and a betting the manufacturing of a firearm.

921
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 2: He scheduled to be sentenced in September and could face

922
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 2: up to ten years. You have to wonder about the

923
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 2: charges everyone ended.

924
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: Up pleading to.

925
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, the guy who made

926
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 2: all of the guns didn't get convicted of a gun crime.

927
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 2: Some of them are guilty of helping make the guns.

928
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 2: Some are just guilty of being part of the process

929
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 2: of getting those guns across state lines. Marino isn't actually

930
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 2: guilty of either, just of being part of a conspiracy

931
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,040
Speaker 2: to do it. And nobody's guilty of fantasizing about starting

932
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:53,280
Speaker 2: a race war because I guess technically that's legal, although

933
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: not in Virginia. Actually, Section eighteen point two Dash four

934
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 2: eighty five, conspiring to incite one race to insurrection against

935
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: another race makes it a class for felony here in

936
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 2: the Commonwealth of Virginia to conspire with another to incite

937
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 2: the population of one race to acts of violence and

938
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 2: war against the population of another race. But I don't

939
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 2: think anybody's ever actually been charged with that. And these

940
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 2: guys were trying to start the race war in Idaho anyway.

941
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,479
Speaker 2: They aren't the first weird guys to try to start

942
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 2: the race war from Idaho, and they definitely will not

943
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:24,879
Speaker 2: be the last.

944
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: But today I will.

945
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 2: Leave you with this the best thing I have ever

946
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 2: and probably will ever read. In a federal court transcript

947
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 2: at in August twenty twenty one hearing to determine if

948
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 2: Joseph Marino would be held in pre trial custody, the

949
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 2: prosecutor was trying to present evidence that the defendant was

950
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 2: armed and dangerous. That's her job at that stage, right

951
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 2: to say that this guy is dangerous for these specific

952
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 2: reasons and you shouldn't let him out, and that didn't

953
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 2: have to be so hard given what we know about

954
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: the full situation. But she misunderstood something she read in

955
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 2: the chat logs that she'd entered in evidence. Ncis agent

956
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 2: John Little reading from the government's exhibit a chat that

957
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 2: Marino had sent about procuring guns and ammunition for a

958
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 2: trip to West Virginia to shoot guns and hang out

959
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 2: with his extremist pals. So he reads aloud to the court,

960
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 2: Mister Marino states, he's got seven Mac elevens, about eight

961
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 2: thirty eight's and nine nines. It appears to be he's

962
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 2: referring to firearms. These types of firearms were never recovered.

963
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 2: These firearms would have different calibers. It appears they're trying

964
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 2: to figure out what calibers they need to purchase. If

965
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 2: you already know how the sends, I think you're already laughing.

966
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 2: And the judge ruled that day that Marino would be

967
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 2: held without bond, citing his apparent leadership role in the group,

968
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 2: his violent beliefs, the training he'd engaged in in furtherance

969
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 2: of them, the surveillance he'd been conducting of these plm rallies,

970
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 2: and these mysterious missing guns. Shortly after that hearing, the

971
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 2: last supersed the indictment was filed, so Marino was back

972
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 2: in court in front of the same judge, and now

973
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 2: that he'd had a few days to mull it over,

974
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 2: Judge Richard E. Myers interjects, just as the government is

975
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 2: finishing up their questioning of that NCIS agent, he says,

976
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 2: I've got a follow up question about the Biggie Small's lyric,

977
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:24,439
Speaker 2: and the federal Prosecutor's confused the what, And the judge

978
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 2: says again about the Biggie Smalls lyrics, I've got seven

979
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 2: macalleven's about eight thirty eights and nine nines. That's a

980
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 2: Biggie Small lyric. Are we looking for those firearms? The

981
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 2: federal prosecutor remains perplexed. Judge Meyer says the court is

982
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 2: independently aware of the Biggie Small lyrics. He's taking judicial

983
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 2: notice of the lyrics to come on a track on

984
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,760
Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety nine album Born Again from the notorious big.

985
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 2: The witness and the federal prosecutor are baffled, like the

986
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 2: judges started speaking a foreign language to them, and so

987
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 2: he says again that list of guns is just Biggie lyrics,

988
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 2: and a prosecutor at a loss says, I am still

989
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 2: not understanding the word. I apologize, and the judge looks

990
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 2: at her and says, Biggie Smalls, Biggie Smalls is a

991
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 2: dead wrapper. So five members of a neo Nazi paramilitary

992
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,320
Speaker 2: group are heading off to federal prison for assorted gun crimes.

993
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 2: Nazis everywhere desperately want to shoot holes in electrical transformers.

994
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:31,240
Speaker 1: No one shot.

995
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 2: The governor of Oregon and a federal judge in North

996
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 2: Carolina took judicial notice of Biggie Smalls.

997
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: Weird Little Guys. The production of cool Zone Media or

998
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: more from pool Zone Media.

999
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 2: Visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out

1000
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get here.

1001
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,720
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