1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm George Ori and welcome to the new I 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a paranormal podcast network. 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: Like us on Facebook, Tell your friends and share us 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: with everyone. This is an exciting new network that will 5 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: feature podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained. Now, 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: please sit back and enjoy Dark Becomes Light with Heidi Hollis. 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware of the thoughts 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: and opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: opinions only and do not reflect those of I Heart Media, 10 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, Coast to Coast AM, employees of premier networks, 11 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: or their sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage 12 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: you to do your own research and discover the subject 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: matter for yourself. You are listening to Dark Becomes Light 14 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: with Me Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio and 15 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. Welcome to my show. 16 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: Remember each week this is the place that you go 17 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: to when you want to learn about what is going 18 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: on out there in the world. When it comes to 19 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: anything and everything out of the ordinary. I don't care 20 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: if it's Big Bood, moth Man, or shadow people or 21 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: near death experiences, or if you're having truly weird waking dreams, 22 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: out of body experiences. I mean, how else are we 23 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: going to get to know what's going on out there 24 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: in the world unless we connect, unless we tell somebody, 25 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: And uh, well, I'm kind of broadcasting it, um, but yeah, 26 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: this is the place. So go to my main website, 27 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: which is shadow Folks dot com or Heidi Hollis dot 28 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: com and write me, tell me what's going on. You're 29 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: always welcome to come on this program to share, But 30 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: I am telling you, nine times out of ten, everybody 31 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: would prefer to send me an email. And I don't 32 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: mind because the details and the form of communicating sometimes 33 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 1: it's easier for people and their nerves don't get the 34 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: better of them where they're trying to think of what 35 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: best to say next. So the longer the email, the better. 36 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: I don't mind one bit. And I'm telling you I 37 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: have learned something and it's something I've kind of realized 38 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: for a long time, Like I'm I'm part of the 39 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: old school. I guess you could say, where we had 40 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: the UFO meetings and got to meet people face to face, 41 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: and but it's not that old school isn't because there's 42 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people that still do that, but in 43 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: the COVID world it makes it a lot more difficult. 44 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: And I get it, um, but there's something that's missing 45 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: when it comes to this COVID world or the Internet world, 46 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: where we're just zooming and we google and we find 47 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: a forum and we get some information and it's like, okay, 48 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: I shared, I think, but there's something to be said 49 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: about physically connecting with people, getting out and meeting people. 50 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: And I'm bringing this up for a reason because, my goodness, 51 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: I had a blast. More recently haven't gone to a 52 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: UFO festival, and wow, I didn't know how much I 53 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: I needed that, how much I missed that. And it 54 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: was COVID safe and you know, we all practice a 55 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: safe distance and the masking and all that good stuff. 56 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: And uh, I met great people. They're great people, the 57 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: people who attended to the speakers, And in fact, it 58 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: leads right into a couple of things on this program today. 59 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: One being the guest today is from that conference and 60 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: her name is Katie Grubowski, and uh, I have to 61 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: tell you connecting with her and the other speakers were fabulous. 62 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: By the way, I mean, I had a great time, 63 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: learned a lot from every single person. And yeah, but 64 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: also I always say I don't I don't peek at 65 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: the emails when I get them. I really don't. But 66 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: sometimes they're just so short, and I'm like, I'm okay, 67 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: I reading this here, Oh well, hey, and randomly picked 68 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 1: an email and lo and behold it fits right in 69 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: to the conversation with what I wanted to address in 70 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: this first segment before we get to Katie. So, um, yeah, 71 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna I'm gonna hop right on over and 72 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to read that to you right now so 73 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: you can see what I mean. It starts off dear hiding. 74 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: I am a lifetime abductee, black eyed teens, doublegangers, angels, 75 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: aliens and evil crap since I was two years old, 76 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: now sixty six, and finally I'm over PTSD and looking 77 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,119 Speaker 1: to help others fight these agents from hades. He didn't 78 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: say hades, but I would love to talk for a 79 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: while and see if we see eye to eye and 80 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: ask what do you do to fight and teach others 81 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: to do that. Thanks Doug, short and sweet, you know, 82 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: short and sweet. So I saw that, and I was like, Oh, 83 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: that's just so perfect. So many people, so many people 84 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: are experiencing a multitude of things, from something that might 85 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: seem other dimensional, too solid, to cryptid like stuff too 86 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: black eyed teens. I mean, gosh, Doug, I wish he 87 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: wrote about that, because I really want to learn and 88 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: hear more about the black eyed children because those things 89 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: really freaked me out. But doublegangers would love to hear 90 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: about that more too. I've experienced that, and uh yeah, 91 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: but listen to what he's saying here. He's calling this 92 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: stuff evil. So a lot of people, when they experience 93 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: something alien, especially over time, there's a shift. There's a 94 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: shift that happens people. People shift in their thinking on 95 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: what was thought to be traumatic. Post traumatic stress disorder 96 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: often comes from alien abductions, and they go to seek 97 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: help and then lo and behold, it's been aliens this 98 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: whole time and had no idea. And then I've watched 99 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: this over the years of people shift, and like, I 100 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: guess it's not so bad. I've gotten used to the 101 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: surgeries and and then interrupting my sleep and taking my 102 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: children to the window and and doing all these different things. 103 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: And but this person here has come out saying it's 104 00:06:55,000 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: evil and uh, I like to say, there's definitely a 105 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: conflict in alien contact where people are experiencing more than 106 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: one thing. But some of these people straight up abductions 107 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: experiments the same stuff that's going on for I don't 108 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: know how long, and but the person's perspective is has changed. 109 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: And I'm not going to knock a person for what 110 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: they believe to be true for themselves, because who am I? UM, 111 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: but I just like to put that thought out there 112 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: and what I learned to from uh encounters with things 113 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: that I have also had, uh, not of the alien 114 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: abduction kind, but beings that say beware, because some of 115 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: these beings can shape shift to make themselves look at 116 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: like other beings, and you think, oh, there's are the 117 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: good guys I had a conversation with they didn't do 118 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: an experiments on me, and then all of a sudden, Oha, 119 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: these guys I thought were nice experiments on me? Or 120 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: or they get convinced to say, you agree to this 121 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: in the past life, or they get a memory even 122 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: you agreed to have this happening to you, so they 123 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: become more um, I don't know, appliable to what's going on, 124 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: or they're taught something and so they get you know, 125 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: they're they're okay with what's happening, but again not trying 126 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: to knock people for what they believe to be true 127 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: for themselves. For myself, UM, I don't if somebody's coming 128 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: over and abusing me, I would ask them to leave, 129 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: and I wouldn't try to get used to it, you know. 130 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: But and it's like, oh, but did I get used 131 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: to the abuse? And then it seemed like I agreed. 132 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, what's going on here? I 133 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: see the shift. I don't understand it. Um. But then 134 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: some of these people become more spiritual, more spiritually inclined, 135 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: more aware about the environment. And these all sound like 136 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: wonderful things. But a lot of people are becoming more 137 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: spiritual these days, a lot of people are more aware. Um. 138 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: But then there's people who also step away from spirituality 139 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: or they'll just stick to the spiritual uh topic as 140 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: as that not religious. I'm spiritual. It's like, okay, I 141 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 1: get it, um, but you know what, what is this? Why? 142 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 1: Why is this? You know? Are these beings encouraging this? 143 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: Is that? Okay? The beings that I had contact with said, 144 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: the beings that do abductions do try to put the 145 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 1: thought of preserve the planet um environmentally, and the more 146 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: positive beings say, but that's not the most important thing 147 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: that should be focused on. Putting all that energy into 148 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: that is not the most important thing. And I'm like, 149 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: I'll confuse, what do you mean? It's like the most 150 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: important thing are tending to souls, saving the souls. The 151 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: Earth recycles, that's what it does. It will recycle, it 152 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: will repair itself. But focusing on the souls, that's what's important. 153 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 1: So diverting attention from that is not a good thing. 154 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: That's what I was told. UM just sharing a lot 155 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: of people think otherwise because environmental things are are positive, 156 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: you know, and I get that, and I feel that 157 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: is too. I think we should definitely do our best 158 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: to keep this planet in decent shape for ourselves in 159 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: the next generation. So, but the conflict and alien contact, 160 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: like we're taking the words of beings that are doing 161 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: things that I wouldn't volunteer for surgery, I wouldn't volunteer 162 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: to have hybrid children. I wouldn't volunteer. I mean, in 163 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: my my today mind, I would hope I wouldn't volunteer 164 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: or past life mind you know. Um. Yeah, So that's 165 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: that's where I come from on it. But there are 166 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 1: people and a lot of people are like what they 167 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: once thought was negative, they don't anymore. And I'm like, okay, 168 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: why we should understand this. But these things, these conversations, 169 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: what I'm getting at, I got I got a little sidetrack. 170 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: But what I'm getting at is we should have these 171 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: conversations and discuss it with each other. And we have 172 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: these conclusions independently oftentimes because we we are just kind 173 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: of connecting online resuming sometimes a lot of us do 174 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: not get out to meetings and actually, you know, grab 175 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: a coffee and have a conversation. And it's a whole 176 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: different thing when you feel you could totally trust the 177 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: person in front of you and and that's that's special, 178 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 1: and that's what's missing these days. And I had a 179 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: UFO paranormal discussion group called u FO to you dot com. 180 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: It's a number two and letter you um dot com. 181 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: And Wow, I learned a lot. I grew and I 182 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: saw people, I connected with them, I got to know 183 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: them for years, and I understood to degree some of 184 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: the shift. I got to ask the people use up 185 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: with a gun on your pillow wire. Are you okay 186 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: with the aliens now? You know? So I gotta have 187 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 1: these conversations and I think we need to have that 188 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: connection again. And uh it, Doug, you're asking how can 189 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: you help teach people to fight and teach others to 190 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: do that. It's getting out and connecting with the people. 191 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: It's having a meeting, getting on one of these apps 192 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: where you can have a meet up or um, you know, 193 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: just connect. Absolutely, it is a brilliant thing. And I 194 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: got that opportunity to do that at this recent UFO 195 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: festival in Oregon and it was so needed and having 196 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: that chance, I wish others did too. And yes, we're 197 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 1: in a COVID world. We're going to have to work 198 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: on working around these things so we could all stay safe. 199 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: But wow, I cannot wait for people to learn to 200 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: reach out again. I think we're going to have a 201 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: resurgence of that because we have been locked down for 202 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: so long. And I think we're going to find more 203 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: value in having the groups come back to life. Even 204 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: I am thinking of bringing back mine. So and uh, 205 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: my guest today is actually from that conference, and I 206 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: think you're going to really enjoy her. It is boy, 207 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: to be Katie Grabowski and Wow, are you in for 208 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: a treat. We're talking connections to something like skid Walker Branch. 209 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you guys, you are listening to Dark Becomes 210 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: Light with me Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio 211 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: and Coast to Coast a M Paranormal podcast network Teck 212 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: a Rap. 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You are listening to dark It 231 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: comes Light with me Heidi Hollis on the I Heart 232 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: Radio at Coast to Coast AM par Normal podcast Network. 233 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: As promised, I have a fabulous guest. I have Katie Krabowski, 234 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: who is the Colorado Moufon State Director and serves on 235 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: the Colorado Board of Directors. She is a Star investigator 236 00:14:54,320 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: from Mufon and is Team lead administrator for Moufon's MARS Team, 237 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: which has Moufon's archive research reporting system. She also conducts 238 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: her own independent investigations and research outside a Moufon and 239 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: founded the Colorado UFO Paranormal Research Group to further explore 240 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: these topics and to share her discoveries with others. Katie 241 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: spends a lot of her time traveling to archives for 242 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: research and to conduct interviews. She is the author of 243 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: Letters of Light and Love, four Decades of UFO Encounters, 244 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: experiences and sightings shared with ufologists are Leo Sprinkle, PhD. 245 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: She is currently writing her second book, High Strangeness on 246 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: a Colorado Ranch and She holds a Bachelor of Science 247 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: in Visual Communications and owned her own graphic design studio 248 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: Design Junkie, and is the mother of five. I'm telling you, 249 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: Katie is truly a tremendous force to be reckoned with 250 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: and is absolutely necessary and needed to help further research today. 251 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: So everybody, i'd love to welcome Katie Grabowski. How are 252 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: you doing there, Katie. I'm doing great. I am soaking 253 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: up the gorgeous Colorado sun. It's a beautiful day here today, 254 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: preparing and enjoying it before winner hits us. Well, that 255 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: is wonderful, lucky you. We had a conversation just prior. 256 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: I'm not even going to talk about it, um, but 257 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: you know I have to say, Katie, you know I 258 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: had the wonderful opportunity to connect with you. We're at 259 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: the UFO fest up there in uh McMinnville, Oregon, and 260 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: uh I am really impressed, first of all with your background. 261 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: Second of all, with your ginormous personality. You know, a 262 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: lot of move on people get totally pegged for being 263 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: all just I don't know, it's not it's not an uptightness, 264 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: but you is are more scientifically based, but you are 265 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: ultimately human, and I was very appreciative to get to 266 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: know that very human side of you. You have a 267 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: spark that I think is uh really really welcoming to 268 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: a lot of people. Thank you having that's so funny. 269 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: I always like to say, I kind of live in 270 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: the center of the bridge, you know, I have that 271 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: scientific side, and I appreciate moupon and move on. You know, 272 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: we can have fun too, so but yeah, I I like, 273 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, they have some fun with some things, 274 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: or what's the point. I mean, you know, we live 275 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 1: one life, and I just think it's a great way 276 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: to connect with people and and hear people's experiences and 277 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: things that it's vitally important to what we do in 278 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: the field. And I like also the bridging of the 279 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: UFO world and the paranormal world, because um, you know, 280 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: if my experience is I just can't I can't disconnect 281 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: it to I feel they're very much connected and the 282 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: answer is ultimately going to be very complex, very true, 283 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: and and there's science to kind of back that as well. 284 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: That there's that bridge between the two, the paranormal and uthology. 285 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: That's right, and I love that. I mean, you know, 286 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: as far as you know the power of our consciousness 287 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: and our mind. And I mean I think that's finally 288 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,719 Speaker 1: being taking more seriously and being studied more, you know, 289 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: academically in universities and that so, UM, I think that's 290 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: an exciting, exciting thing, truly. So my goodness, I have 291 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: to ask, uh so being the state director for Colorado's 292 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: bluefn UM, I mean, how on earth and why on earth? 293 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: Why did you get involved in these things? Well? Um, 294 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: I really got involved in um. You know, like a 295 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: lot of people. You know, people go through life and 296 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: they experience things they don't quite understand. And that happened 297 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: to me from a very young age. I mean, and 298 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: you know, we had some experiences when I was really young, 299 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: kind of family legends both in Wisconsin and Illinois and 300 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: then in this from nineteen seventy eight, I spent a 301 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: handful of times out on this very strange ranch on 302 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: Melburt County, Colorado. It was known in UFO folklore through 303 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: the Apple Reports as a clear View Ranch or the 304 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain Ranch. Um. It is in Elbert County and 305 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: it's very much like the Skinwalker Ranch in Utah. So 306 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: those sat you know, I had these memories my sister 307 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: and I have these things happening. We were threatened and 308 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: more and really never to talk to anybody about it, 309 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: so I did never even knew it was reported or 310 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: investigated or anything. And um, in twelve I started watching 311 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: Actually before that, it was it was earlier than that, 312 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: I started watching Ghost Hunters and love that show and 313 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: all the paranormal staff. And I was watching a documentary 314 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 1: and they had mentioned mouf On or the Mutual UFO network, 315 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: and I had my degree in graphic design. I thought, oh, 316 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: maybe I can be at a field invest gator kind 317 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: of figure out what the heck all that was that 318 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: happened in my earlier years, and maybe I can sketch 319 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: like E. T. S or beans and craft, which I've 320 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: never really done, but that was sort of my intention 321 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: to begin with. And anyway, um, and you know, it's 322 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: just been kind of rabbit hole you jump into. As 323 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: many people know, the more you investigate, the more you learned, 324 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: the more questions you have, and that's you know, that's 325 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 1: where I'm at. Well, that makes sense to me that 326 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: you have that background and graphic design, because the presentation 327 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: you put on was extremely colorful and very lively. Thank 328 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: you a lot of people appreciated that and wanted to 329 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: get up out of their seats quite literally, for many reasons. 330 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: I appreciate that things. Oh it's great. So so it's 331 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: fascinating to me. Like I, I think a lot of 332 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: people that are involved in these uh these types of 333 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: topics are familiar with the skin Walker ranch and some 334 00:20:55,240 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: of the very strange happenings. But to have ex bury 335 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: it something like that yourself, and and to hear your story, UM, 336 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: I think the most disturbing part was the threat that 337 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: you got and it wasn't an earthly threat. Are you 338 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: able to go into that a little bit? Yeah? I 339 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 1: sure can, UM, And I'll tell you it's been you know, 340 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: you know, the move on side of me loves archives 341 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: and research, and UM, I spent you know, eight years 342 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: just doing that and not really sharing my story publicly, 343 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: you know, on any media platforms. UM. And I'm really 344 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: glad I'm starting to do that now because the people 345 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: that are coming out or that I'm um learning about 346 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: that have similar experiences is fascinating. In one such person 347 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: I just learned about UM had the same disembodied voice. 348 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: So what had happened? It was a weekend my sister 349 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: and I were out on the ranch for the boys 350 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: that we knew. We knew the three sons. His mom 351 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: had a birthday, so the adults were playing a board game. 352 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: My my sister, and I and the three sons were 353 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: in the room hanging out, and all of a sudden, 354 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: there's a strange, loud, humming noise that would happen out 355 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 1: there on the ranch property and sometimes would get so 356 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: loud you can't even hear yourself talk over it. And 357 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, the power goes out in 358 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: the house. The brightest light you've ever seen, like the whitest, 359 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: brightest light through the windows, and we're all just freaking 360 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: out what's going on. And at that moment, this disembodied 361 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: electrical voice, remember there's no power in the house at 362 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: this point, and in a nutshell, basically says, we've allowed 363 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: you to remain. Your friends will be warned not to 364 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: talk about us. Um you know, so the actual whole 365 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: sentences in the briefing document that I read, but in 366 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: a nutshell basically said, your friends will be we're not 367 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: to talk about us, and UM, my mom and the 368 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: adults in our lives at the time, I'm nine to twelve, 369 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: years old. I'm just a little girl, and they're like, Katie, 370 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: you know, don't you say anything to anybody about this. Um, 371 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: we don't know what will happen if you do. And 372 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: so you know, you learned to be quiet and shut 373 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: up really fast. Well, yeah, so some of the strange happenings. Uh, 374 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more detail about what exactly 375 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: you experience, Like what was the first thing that happened? 376 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: The first thing I remember happening is you know, just 377 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: like what we were talking about earlier. It was a spring, 378 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: sunny day in Colorado, but yet there was this wet, 379 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: heavy snow on the ground. Um. You know, springtimes and 380 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: Colorado are like that. We can get a really big 381 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: snow and then the sum will come out and the 382 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: weather is nice. Um. And so my sister and I 383 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 1: were out there just tossing the frisbee and we look 384 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: down and we just happened to notice that the dirt 385 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: under our feet is not only no snow on it, 386 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: but it was completely dry and nothing grew in it. 387 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: And we're like, this is really strange. And it's one 388 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: of those again we're young. It's like that big memory, 389 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 1: but we both remember it very well. It was just 390 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: so unusual, and the the whole ranch just had this 391 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 1: eeriness about it. Just being on the property, you just 392 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: felt different, you felt watched. It was strange. And what 393 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: was cool is M. John Schusler, after he knew of 394 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: my connection to the ranch, he gave me the original 395 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,479 Speaker 1: briefing document and investigation papers along with Dr Leo Sprinkle. 396 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: When I went to go get the research from him, 397 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: his archives and Laramie wyoming Um, they actually had that 398 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: that snowless dry circle. They investigated that and they said 399 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: it was thirty five ft in diameter. So it was 400 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: cool to have that confirmation like, there it is, that's 401 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: that circle. But that was the very first thing my 402 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: sister and I remember. That is amazing. I mean it's 403 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: quite physical. It's one of those things that it helps 404 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: to verify and justify in your mind, and then to 405 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: to have that absolutely verified later, I mean, I wish 406 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: I had something like that. Haven't grown up and some 407 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: of the strange circumstances personally, so it's that's uh, that's amazing. Yeah, 408 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,239 Speaker 1: the confirm ations of our our memories have been just like, 409 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it's so rewarding to have that, you know, 410 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: and and also in that report when it talked about 411 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: that thirty five ft in diame and or diameter circle, 412 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: it talked about the snow on the outside of it, 413 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: and there were drops of blood. So there were even 414 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: more details in it. And at the time out there 415 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: in Nolburg County from seventy to seventy eight, cattle mutilation 416 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: was extremely high. That's where linnimal and how got her 417 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: start out there as an investigative journalist researching all these 418 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: mutilations out there. And it just wasn't cattle, it was horse, 419 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: it was cow, was sheep, even dog, um and so. 420 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: And you know when I went out to investigate the 421 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: sheriff out there at the time, Bill Wall, the under sheriff, 422 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: his um wife now widow, Jean, and his youngest son 423 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: live out in Florida. We flew out there to interview them, 424 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: and um, they were saying these things were almost a 425 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: cream daily. That's how many of these things they were. Wow, 426 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: that's amazing. Well, you know, I want to get into, uh, 427 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: some of the details involved in your book and other experiences. 428 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: After the break, we'll explore that you guys are listening 429 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: to Dark Becomes Light with me. Heidi Hollis on the 430 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 431 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: Stick around, we'll be right back. Hey, folks. It's easier 432 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: than ever to become a Coast to Coast a UM 433 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: insider and have access to pass shows the Art Bell 434 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: Vault with classic audio and interviews and so much more. 435 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: And you can listen to the show live or on 436 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: demand with your computer or cell phone, and the audio 437 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: streams are high quality and crystal clear. It's easy to 438 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: become an insider. Just head on over to Coast to 439 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: Coast a M dot com the website and you'll find 440 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: all the info right there. That's Coast to Coast a 441 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: M dot com Coast to Coast a L dot com. Hey, 442 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: it's George and Ori, and thank you for listening to 443 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a M 444 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: Paranormal Podcast Network. Here we go with more Dark Becomes 445 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: Light with Heidi Hollis. Welcome back. You are listening to 446 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: Dark Becomes Light with me, Heidi Hollis on the I 447 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 448 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: Joining me is Katie Rebel skichi Is. Wow, she's really 449 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: got quite the story, and uh, why had a few 450 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: similarities between the famous skin Walker Ranch and uh, you're 451 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: telling us a little bit about some of those odd 452 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: experiences that you had, and I wanted to hear more 453 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 1: about that and what you feel skin Walker Ranch has 454 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 1: in common with where you grew up. Yeah, I mean, 455 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 1: you know, the commonalities between the skin Walker Ranch and 456 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: the Colorado Ranch are just astounding. I mean, from the 457 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: cattle mutilations, the humming noises, the Native American connections, strange 458 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: um circles on the ground, the humming noises, the crypto creatures, 459 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: the sasquatch creature, I mean, on and on the list. 460 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: You know, these strange disappearing boxes. Um. But one of 461 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: my um main objectives starting out and researching this property 462 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: in the area because I thought at first it was 463 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: just UM at that particular ranch. Come to find out, 464 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: the activity was really high in the whole entire county. 465 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: There's several small towns in Obert County, Colorado, and so 466 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: the activity was going on. It wasn't just isolated to 467 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: the one property. But what was really fascinating to me, 468 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: and the question I really always had was how much 469 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: of this was unknown phenomenon possible UFOs, UM and beings, 470 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: and how much of it was our own military and 471 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: government out there because we had these strange h menacing 472 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: helicopters UM that were out there, and you know, pulling 473 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: up newspaper articles from back in the day, these helicopters 474 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: were actually chasing people, menacing people, and we're talking young kids, 475 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: Why would you do that? You know? What were these 476 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: helicopters doing out there at the time? UM? There were 477 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: to a SEVENTI s that in the report that I received, 478 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: UM said that they crashed in pursuit of a UFO. 479 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: And it was so interesting because in Laughlin at a 480 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: UFO conference, Richard Doughty was there speaking and I know, 481 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: I know, you know, disinformation. He's kind of come out 482 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: forward lately and said, look, man, I was just doing 483 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: my job, but I thought it would be interesting to 484 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: just ask him if he knew of the property, which 485 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: he said that he did. He didn't say he was 486 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: out there personally, but he was aware of it. Which 487 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: is really interesting to me that we have people in 488 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: our military that we know we're out there. We know 489 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: Norad was aware of what was going on, and we 490 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: know Camp Carson and the Air Force academy. They're all 491 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: in Colorado Springs, and where this property sits Um wasn't 492 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: too far from the lands that they owned. So my 493 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: question had always been what were they doing out there? 494 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: Were they out there causing activity or were they out 495 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: there trying to investigate activity? And what I've come to 496 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: believe now is that it's a combination of both. I 497 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: think both things were happening, and I find I'm still 498 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: that's what drives me to keep digging because it's been 499 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: so long now, you know, over four decades. Certainly some 500 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: of these helicopter pilots and military people, people that were 501 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: connected to the activity, I would feel like, okay, it's 502 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,719 Speaker 1: okay to talk about what what was happening out there, Like, 503 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: you know, time to come clean, guys, you know, guys 504 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: and gals, time to complain. So, I mean, there was 505 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: just so much happening out there, but at the same time, 506 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: through my interviews, so many things that you can't explain 507 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: away just by military and cover ups. I mean, these 508 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: cryptic creatures, the sasquatch creatures out there, some of the mutilations. 509 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: Although I know, you know, Christopher O'Brien and czuch Sukowski 510 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: have have done decades of research on this topic. I 511 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: don't claim to be the expert here. I know that 512 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: some of them have very earthly explanations, but there are 513 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: a handful that are really high strange strangeness that they're like, okay, 514 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: that we don't have an answer to that, that that 515 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: can't be explained away so easily. And then of course 516 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: there's these orange flying orbs that the sheriff's were witnessing 517 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: and they would fly off the property do ninety degree 518 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,959 Speaker 1: right angle angle terms. Um, some of these experiences by 519 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: the sheriff and the undershriff, These disappearing boxes and trees 520 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: that would appear to go just into the ground, just 521 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: completely disappear. I mean, what is that all about? So, 522 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: and then the paranormal things that we're going on, you know, 523 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: the ghosts and so there's a lot to these properties 524 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: that is amazing. Do you feel there's an interdimensional element 525 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: that's going on? Um? I do? I believe that. It 526 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: just seems like one of the only logical explanations to me. 527 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: And you know, and in talking about this and coming 528 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: forward and sharing this information, I've learned of other places. 529 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: You know. Now we have the blind Frog Ranch, and 530 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: we have the meadows Um which is down south with 531 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: Trey Hudson, and we have Marley Woods in Missouri. And 532 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: I learned through the move On Mars project, which the 533 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: move On Mars Project is all of the pre computerized 534 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: cases that move On would get, they would be you know, 535 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: on paper, and I had a team of fifteen people 536 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: that would go through and redact all the private information 537 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: out of these reports. So you know, we have access 538 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: to read and look at all these pre computer reports 539 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: from move On. And in there was the Ohio Pile, 540 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania creature case, which had numerous witnesses the humming noises, 541 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: the circles on the ground, the cattle mutilations, these bigfoot 542 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: creatures and they claim they like shot at these things 543 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: and it just these bigfoot would disappear in a flash 544 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: of light. So there's another one. So I count that 545 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: in there. And something that is really intriguing to me 546 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: is is to try and find like, what is it 547 00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: about these places that either are allowing us to see 548 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: the phenomenon more easily, or is allowing these things to 549 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: interact with the environment. Um you know, like portals or 550 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: or or gates or something that are opening here and 551 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: something that I found. If you go to the UM 552 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: United States Geological Magneticism Map, you'll find that most of 553 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: these are all of these locations are paying the charts 554 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: is being highly magnetic areas. So I find that interesting. 555 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: I think there's something important there. And I'm hoping, I'm 556 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: hopeful that we're all going to start working together to 557 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: look at some of these commonalities at these locations, look 558 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: at what we have in common versus the differences when 559 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: it comes to these cross research type situations. And and 560 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: I believe that there's always that situation if you look 561 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: and listen longer to the people that are telling you, 562 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: if they have constant activity in one arena, it seems 563 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: like they're also susceptible to experiencing another. UM. And I 564 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: remember you also mentioned having shadow people encounters coming through. 565 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: That's right, That's another one of my big questions, UM, 566 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: you know, because I have experienced things. And it really 567 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: got that night that I talked about with the disembodied 568 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 1: voice coming out of every orpus of the house that evening. 569 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: You know, we left the ranch property and we lived 570 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: forty five you know, minutes away from that property. We 571 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 1: lived in Englewood, Colorado at the time, and I got home, 572 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: made it through the front door, was down on the ground. 573 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: I went paralyzed, and my older sister, my mom or 574 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,439 Speaker 1: you know, Katie, what did you eat? I'm like trying 575 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,800 Speaker 1: to say peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and I couldn't. 576 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: And that must have lasted. It seemed like five or 577 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: ten minutes or something, and then I, you know, came 578 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: to got up in my bed and had my first 579 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: major episode of a migraine headache with the tunnel vision 580 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,240 Speaker 1: of those who suffered migraines know what I'm talking about. 581 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,240 Speaker 1: And I suffered those for years. UM and lucid vivid 582 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: dreams and the shadow people in room oftentimes by three. 583 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: It was never one, it was either two or three. Um. 584 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: I never slept alone after that. Always felt like I 585 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: was being watched, just a host of other things. And 586 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: the more people you talked to about these things and 587 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, wow, they experienced that stuff too. And 588 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,399 Speaker 1: another thing I'd like to mention, even with Project Blue Book, 589 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: you know, they were really just focused on the nuts 590 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: and bolts craft, the propulsion, the configuration of lighting, didn't 591 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: make a sound, you know, those kind of things. They 592 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: never really even asked about the paranormal side of things. So, 593 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,320 Speaker 1: you know, going through all the newspaper articles from the 594 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: way back in the day, pulling names and trying to 595 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: contact some of these folks. It's a great thing to say. 596 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: And now I know you had cattle mutilations, because most 597 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: of the articles are written about the cattle mutilations and 598 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: what they thought was going on at the time, whether 599 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: they're you know, colts doing this or you know, their 600 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: theories on what was happening. Um, But they didn't ask 601 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: them about the paranormal side of things, you know, or 602 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: their activities or strange humming sounds or any of these 603 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,439 Speaker 1: other you know, crypto creatures or anything. So I think 604 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: it's important that we go back and revisit some of 605 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: these investigations because now we have more questions to ask, 606 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: more connections to make. Yeah, definitely, that is just it 607 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: just blows my mind just when we think we have 608 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: some kind of answer or understanding of anything going on, 609 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: when it comes to these supernatural type of events. We 610 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: I feel like with each case, you have to start 611 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,879 Speaker 1: from ground zero and to try to trace the connections 612 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: and who was where and what was going on at 613 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: the time. I mean, did you ever find any kind 614 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: of connecting source to why some of the things happened 615 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: as they did for you? Um? Well, I think that's 616 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: a huge problem in this field. Um you know, reinventing 617 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: the wheel, having to go back, you know, that was 618 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: fascinating to me. Learning how I first found out about this, 619 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: that this was ever reported in the first place, were investigated, 620 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: um Is. I bought a book titled Hunt for the 621 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: skin Walker by George Knapp and Colm Kelly and her PhD. 622 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,280 Speaker 1: And I didn't know anything about the skin Walker Ranch 623 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 1: at the time, and you know, they didn't have a 624 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 1: show on on the History Channel or anything. I just 625 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: knew it was about a ranch and some strange stuff. 626 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: So I bought the book and I get to other 627 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: hot Spots the chapter of the Hot Spots, and they 628 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: started talking about the ranch in Colorado, and I knew 629 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: it was the ranch I had spent time on as 630 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,359 Speaker 1: a young girl. And I called my sister right away 631 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: and my mom right away. And you're not going to 632 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: believe this, but in that book, um they mentioned Dr 633 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: Leo Sprinkle, PhD, John Dr PhD, and Peter Van Arsdale, 634 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: PhD were all out there on the ranch along with 635 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: Clarissa Burnhout, who was a psychic medium, which I found fascinating. 636 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: I got to interview her as well. Um, but to 637 00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: learn that that place was actually being investigated with shocking 638 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 1: and unbelievable. But more importantly, when I went to go 639 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 1: research it, I got lost in all these letters written 640 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: to Dr Sprinkle, and it was very apparent to me 641 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: that we're just always reinventing the wheel. There's thousands of 642 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: thousands of books on the topic, both paranormal and UFOs. 643 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: There's so many unbelievable researchers and scientists and people who 644 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: have been trying to find the answers to these things 645 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,399 Speaker 1: in these connections for decades and decades, and it makes 646 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: you humble really fast, and it makes you think, wow, 647 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: just when we think we're finding some sort of parallel 648 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: or connection with you know, like for example, oh, it 649 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: must be like a frequency of thing or a magnetic thing, 650 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: or this thing or that thing, they've already thought about that, 651 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 1: they've already explored that. And I was like, well crude, 652 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: you know, so it just um, you know, you could 653 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: spend a lifetime trying to find one little piece of 654 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: this big puzzle, you know, and it's difficult. It's really difficult, truly. Well, 655 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to get into details about this book that 656 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: you pulled together, um and that was connected to Dr 657 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: Leo Sprinkle. It sounds really fascinating. So you guys, you're 658 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 1: listening to Dark Becomes Light with me Heidi Hollis on 659 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 660 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: Podcast Network. We'll be right back. The Internet is an 661 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 1: extraordinary resource that links our children to a world of information, experiences, 662 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 1: and ideas. It can also expose them to risk. Teach 663 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: your children the basic safety rules of the virtual world. 664 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:58,800 Speaker 1: Our children are everything. Do everything for them. You're listening 665 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: to the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM 666 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: Paranormal Podcast Network, heard on the I Heart Radio app, 667 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find your favorite shows. Welcome back. 668 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 1: You are listening to Dark That Comes Light with me 669 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 1: Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio and Coast to 670 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. And I have Katie Powski 671 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: and wow, you guys, you have never heard such a story. 672 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: I am really really digging it. And uh, I haven't 673 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 1: had anybody come on the show that says, you know, 674 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: I really got involved and looking into these topics because 675 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: I read my story in a book already. What I 676 00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 1: know was it was quite shocking for me as well, 677 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: but also just like validation, like oh my gosh, my sister, 678 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 1: we're like, we're not crazy. Oh my gosh, this happened, 679 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, because you know, yeah, I'll never ever forget 680 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 1: that night. And of course Dr Leo Sprinkle, who is 681 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,759 Speaker 1: just a gem and a pioneer in the field for 682 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,360 Speaker 1: experience or and a hypnotherapist and a psychologist, how to 683 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 1: lary Me Wyoming. He's old school. He didn't do, you know, 684 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,480 Speaker 1: emails or anything. So I had to handwrite him a 685 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: letter and I'll never forget walking to my mailbox and 686 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 1: getting that letter back from him going yes, and he 687 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: had the last name of the family and the local 688 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I knew it. Oh my gosh, 689 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: that is an unforgettable day. And you know, next week 690 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: it's a two and a half hour drive to me 691 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,879 Speaker 1: for me to alary Me. So I made that drive 692 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: met with Leo and he is the most gracious time 693 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: of his time, of his spirit in his time, like 694 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,839 Speaker 1: he We sat on the couch and talked for two 695 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: hours in his office. This is the sweetest man you 696 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,439 Speaker 1: can ever want to know. I actually went last week 697 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 1: in it at him. Um. You know, he's ninety one, 698 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 1: but now he's hanging in there. Um. But he's just 699 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 1: a great guy. So what ended up happening is I 700 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,320 Speaker 1: went to the archives, which is open for anybody. You 701 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: can go to the Heritage Center and Larry and he 702 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: has eighty four boxes of his lifetime of work there. 703 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 1: And I went to pull the file on the ranch 704 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 1: which is there, but I got lost. I pulled every 705 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: file out of every box. I got lost in people's 706 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 1: letters that had written to him over the decades. And 707 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: we're talking from experiencers, from pH d s, from other 708 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: people in the field. They're all filed in there, and 709 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: they're fascinating. And I just, you know, made a dozen 710 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 1: trips back and forth, and I would take photographs of 711 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: hundreds of these letters. Then i'd go home, I'd organize 712 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: them all into files, you know, box thirty three, and 713 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: then I'd go through and I'd read them all. I 714 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,240 Speaker 1: kind of pulled all the juicy parts out of the letters, 715 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: like I felt if I found them interesting, other people 716 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: would find them interesting. And it came to me in 717 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: a dream. You need to put these in a book. 718 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: So the book is Letters of Love and Life for 719 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:13,439 Speaker 1: decades of UFO encounters, experiences, and sightings shared with uphologists 720 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: are Leo Sprinkle, PhD. There's several different chapters in the 721 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: book on hypnosis, something a lot of people wrote about. 722 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: Where was this a dream or was this some memory abductions? 723 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 1: Channeling the e T S letters from children, um um. 724 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,840 Speaker 1: Dr Sprinkle kept all his response letters, so every chapter 725 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: begins with a quote that relates to the chapter. And 726 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: that's cool because you can kind of see how his 727 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,239 Speaker 1: process of thought changed through the decades. So it was 728 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: just this huge labor of love. And like I said, 729 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,319 Speaker 1: it made me so humble to read the work of 730 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,759 Speaker 1: so many other pioneers in the field, and it kind 731 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,919 Speaker 1: of you know, it was it was just a great experience. 732 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,280 Speaker 1: It was a really great experience. I was so happy 733 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,799 Speaker 1: to honor him in this way, um. And along the way, 734 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,759 Speaker 1: I learned a lot of cool things, you know, from 735 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: different people in different letters, But were some of the 736 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: more interesting experiences that you read one one that really 737 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 1: surprised me. Um. I would hope most of your listeners 738 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: would be familiar with the nineteen seventy five Travis Walton 739 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: abduction case out of Snowflake Arizona. So I come across 740 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: a letter in box twenty, folder thirty one from a 741 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: gentleman that lives in Illinois and the letters dated UM 742 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,279 Speaker 1: March thirteenth, nineteen eighty one. And he's he says, I'm 743 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,919 Speaker 1: a senior citizen now and not educated to your level. 744 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: I have been a country preacher for many years now. UM. 745 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 1: And he goes on to talk about it was a 746 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:47,280 Speaker 1: year between nineteen thirty one and nineteen thirty four, UM 747 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:52,359 Speaker 1: our bus had run through a small place that I 748 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: believe to be Snowflake Arizona. And he goes on to 749 00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 1: talk about an abduction experience he had with a blue light. UH. 750 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: Pretty similar description of this. I mean. So I'm like, wow, 751 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: this is an earlier Snowflake Arizona incident. UM from a 752 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 1: preacher that talks about that. UM, that's interesting. There's also 753 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,399 Speaker 1: some really cool information I found on fe Warren Air 754 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,879 Speaker 1: Force Base. It was a multi witness UM sighting out 755 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:28,359 Speaker 1: there in Cheyenne, Wyoming, multiple multiple military witnesses, nuclear shutdowns 756 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,360 Speaker 1: and you name it. So that was fascinating. There's just 757 00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,680 Speaker 1: so many things, um and not only from the United States, 758 00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: but you know, stories from Brazil and all around the world, 759 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:43,800 Speaker 1: So you know, amazing. Did did you get a sense 760 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,239 Speaker 1: of what beings people were having the most interactions with 761 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: where they all graze or you know, that's really a 762 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: great question. And something that also fascinates me about this 763 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 1: topic is it seems to me, reading through the letters 764 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 1: and reading the books and all the research that the 765 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:05,799 Speaker 1: phenomenon has, it seems to somewhat ship like for me. 766 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 1: My my favorite decade to read about in research, of course, 767 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,600 Speaker 1: is in nineteen seventies, you know, because of my experiences 768 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,399 Speaker 1: out on the ranch property, and it's fascinating to read 769 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,880 Speaker 1: about these because there were like more accounts of actual 770 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:26,400 Speaker 1: landed craft or beans in these suits, silver suits, blue suits, 771 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: and of course you don't know how much of that 772 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: is popular media, you know. In nineteen seventy seven was 773 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: Close Encounters of the Third kind, which I had to 774 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: laugh because it just occurred to me. I'm like, wow, 775 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,520 Speaker 1: I don't think everybody looked at that as like a 776 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,080 Speaker 1: documentary films, and I'm like, it's like your life, I'm 777 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,360 Speaker 1: living that, I'm living that craft anyway, Sorry, for the language. 778 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,160 Speaker 1: But so I thought that was funny. But you know, 779 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,839 Speaker 1: so you know, you hear these encounters of you know, 780 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 1: beings working on craft, and of course there were the 781 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,920 Speaker 1: humanoid types and the grays and the and then the 782 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,000 Speaker 1: cases that come into move On now seem to be 783 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,359 Speaker 1: more lights in this guy. And if there is an 784 00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,439 Speaker 1: encounter case, it's more personal, like in my bedroom kind 785 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,879 Speaker 1: of thing. You know, the beings came to me, not 786 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,600 Speaker 1: like by at landed craft in a field, but in 787 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 1: my room. So it's sort of changed in that way. 788 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:24,720 Speaker 1: I find that really interesting. Well, I have the different 789 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,000 Speaker 1: things that occurred during abductions. Has that altered at all 790 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 1: over the years, you know, again reading that and again 791 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,759 Speaker 1: a lot of this from just reading the letters and 792 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,439 Speaker 1: research from Dr Leo Sprinkle because he worked with experiencers 793 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: and abductees for so long, um, and it seems to 794 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:46,359 Speaker 1: me those types of commonalities, um haven't changed all that 795 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,319 Speaker 1: much when it comes to you know, you know, the 796 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 1: hybrid program or being put on a table and you 797 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 1: know something a needle stuck in your navel or these 798 00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 1: that seems to remain fairly consistent even as early as 799 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,200 Speaker 1: like the sixties seventies, eighties nineties, those things tend to 800 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 1: be fairly consistent through all the decades. Uh and uh, 801 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,720 Speaker 1: I know out there when we were at your focus, 802 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 1: you know, Ray Hernandez just in his team are doing 803 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,840 Speaker 1: research on that as well, looking you know, talking to 804 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,360 Speaker 1: experiences from the around the world and trying to find 805 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,840 Speaker 1: those connections as well. And um, yeah, so that hasn't 806 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,480 Speaker 1: changed so much. Yeah, it seems the things that have changed. 807 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,600 Speaker 1: I've been involved in it for a while myself, and 808 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: and the the perspective of those who were taken have 809 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,799 Speaker 1: changed from horror two. I think I was chosen to 810 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 1: I guess I'm okay with this. And it was always 811 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,759 Speaker 1: puzzling to me that part, because it was PTSD that 812 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,359 Speaker 1: got them to realize they were experiencing what they were 813 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,440 Speaker 1: And I honestly believe there's a conflict in alien contact 814 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,720 Speaker 1: that they may be having positive experience with different beings 815 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: that might look similar and ones that are doing things 816 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,760 Speaker 1: like I don't know anybody that would volunteer for surgery, 817 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,279 Speaker 1: that's all I'm gonna say, right, No, you know, I 818 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 1: had that same kind of thing, and you know, on 819 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,840 Speaker 1: the ranch property, I did not see any et beans 820 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,840 Speaker 1: that I consciously remember seeing on the ranch. But it 821 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: was reported that there were two types of beans out 822 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,319 Speaker 1: on that property, and in fact they it says they 823 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,120 Speaker 1: were in conflict with one another. One was this very 824 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:29,359 Speaker 1: mechanical looking being with tubes and wrinkles around the mouth, 825 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,720 Speaker 1: wrinkles on the forehead, really heavy brow, not the huge, 826 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,799 Speaker 1: huge almond eyes, but bigger than our eyes. It was 827 00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:39,240 Speaker 1: fascinating about that. Those sketches were in Dr Leo's files 828 00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,160 Speaker 1: and I put them in my back pocket. I didn't 829 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,239 Speaker 1: put them anywhere. I didn't share them with anybody because 830 00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to find something that looks similar and ling 831 00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,600 Speaker 1: the whole. You know. A year and a half two 832 00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,800 Speaker 1: years later, we have a guest speaker, Shawn bar talk 833 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: talk about his book Flashbacks was about and it was 834 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,400 Speaker 1: about a property he had in Castle Rock, Colorado in 835 00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:00,600 Speaker 1: the early seventies. All sorts of very similar, high strange activity, 836 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,479 Speaker 1: and up comes these drawings and you couldn't match these 837 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,799 Speaker 1: two beans any closer actually did a morph of the two, 838 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,960 Speaker 1: and I was like, what are the chances of that? 839 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,719 Speaker 1: That closed my mind. But that mechanical being, but there 840 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,680 Speaker 1: was also these humanoid like Nordic being beans and it 841 00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,320 Speaker 1: was like they were in conflict, and Heidi, I really 842 00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,840 Speaker 1: wrestle with that too. Like for me, I was terrified, 843 00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,480 Speaker 1: you know, nightmares, never slept alone. I mean, it was 844 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,319 Speaker 1: a scary time for me. I felt watched. I would 845 00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,120 Speaker 1: run up to the nearest house. Um. You know, it 846 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:37,400 Speaker 1: went through that PTSD stuff, all of it. Um. But now, 847 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,160 Speaker 1: just like so many experiences, now, I feel like I'm 848 00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,160 Speaker 1: kind of driven and it's you know, more of a 849 00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,279 Speaker 1: positive kind of thing in my life. UM, certainly don't 850 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 1: feel chosen in any kind of way. And people asked 851 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,840 Speaker 1: me do you think you were abducted? And I, you know, 852 00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,319 Speaker 1: like I said, I don't know the answer to that. 853 00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,799 Speaker 1: Dr Sprinkle put me under hypnosis and I was kind 854 00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,400 Speaker 1: of a little shock. Boy came out back. Now, so 855 00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, um, but I wrestle 856 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,160 Speaker 1: with that kind of How did that bad experience, that 857 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,840 Speaker 1: really frightening thing when I was a kid where you 858 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,279 Speaker 1: felt isolated and alone turn into something that I'm so 859 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:20,719 Speaker 1: driven about now. I think, yeah, it's really an interesting, 860 00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,839 Speaker 1: interesting thing, that's wonderful. I just hope I'm not being 861 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,960 Speaker 1: tricked right well, I mean, ay, but you might be 862 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,759 Speaker 1: inspired by an opposing force, another type of being for 863 00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,640 Speaker 1: all you know. But I mean, it's a puzzle. How 864 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,279 Speaker 1: can people get a hold of you if they want 865 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,400 Speaker 1: to reach out? Um, I have a website. It's Katie 866 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:42,920 Speaker 1: Grubovski K A T I E G R I b 867 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:47,720 Speaker 1: as in boy O s k I dot com. Katie 868 00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,160 Speaker 1: Grubovski dot com. Thank you so much, Katie Gruvovski. I 869 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:52,920 Speaker 1: really want to thank you for coming out on the 870 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,480 Speaker 1: show today. This was really fascinating. Yeah, thank you so 871 00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,520 Speaker 1: much for having mean. I can't wait to hang out again. 872 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,840 Speaker 1: We had a blast. It will happen, It will happen, 873 00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,319 Speaker 1: all right, everybody, we have come to the bottom of 874 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,680 Speaker 1: another fabulous program. Remember to go to my main website, 875 00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,640 Speaker 1: Shadow Folks for Heidi Hollis dot com and tell me 876 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,480 Speaker 1: what's going on in your lives. What is it at 877 00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,280 Speaker 1: your experience and what are your thoughts? What's your research? 878 00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,759 Speaker 1: And I mean A to Z anything and everything you 879 00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,880 Speaker 1: have been listening to Dark becomes light with me, Heidi 880 00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,280 Speaker 1: Hollis on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast 881 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:33,640 Speaker 1: am Paranormal Podcast Network. We'll see you next time. Stay 882 00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:49,040 Speaker 1: say everybody, Well, if you like this edition of Dark 883 00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,200 Speaker 1: Becomes Light. Wait till you hear the next one. You've 884 00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,800 Speaker 1: been listening to the I Heart Radio and Coast Coast 885 00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,120 Speaker 1: AM Paranormal podcast network