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Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ. It's Saturday,

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Speaker 1: September thirteenth. We've been doing every week a recovery run

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Speaker 1: episode where we talk about the ways we have intentionally

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Speaker 1: tried to recover spend some time together. This week, honestly,

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Speaker 1: we have nothing to report. This was a very intense

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Speaker 1: and heavy news week. I think it took a toll

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Speaker 1: on a lot of us, and I think it got

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Speaker 1: really personal for just about everybody in different ways. And

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Speaker 1: certainly we're talking most notably about the political assassination of

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Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk, but there were a lot of other stories

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Speaker 1: that were ripple effects. I think that came from this story.

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Speaker 1: And maybe it's just more of the same of what

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Speaker 1: we've been dealing with, where we've gotten active shooters in schools,

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Speaker 1: we've gotten more hoaxes, and it feels overwhelming to the

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Speaker 1: point where it gets personal and you think about how

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Speaker 1: it's affecting your life. And we were discussing earlier like

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Speaker 1: how has and I think everyone's felt this, How have

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Speaker 1: this week's headlines? How have you been personally impacted? TJ?

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Speaker 1: Have you felt the weight of this with you and

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Speaker 1: your life and your circle and Sabine like, has this

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Speaker 1: impacted you in a significant way, perhaps more than even

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Speaker 1: other weeks have.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, it's just a matter of I felt less

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Speaker 2: hope and more despair about where we are. I think

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Speaker 2: we're going more so in this direction before we correct

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Speaker 2: and this stuff stops. It felt like this is going

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Speaker 2: to ramp up. This seems impossible in our lifetimes in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five that a political assassination would be taking place.

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Speaker 2: That's insane, right, So it makes me feel like things

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Speaker 2: are going to get worse. At what point do we

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Speaker 2: turn things around? I actually did think about Emmittil and

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Speaker 2: I thought about George Floyd moments where we all look

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Speaker 2: at something and I don't care who you are, you

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Speaker 2: look and you say, okay, we gotta be better than this.

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Speaker 2: And I looked at this and thought that could possibly

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Speaker 2: be one of those moments and something come of it.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not hopeful there either. So I think just

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Speaker 2: despair was how I walked away from this week.

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Speaker 1: And it came on a week where we already are

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Speaker 1: reflective and somber because of nine to eleven. It's the

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Speaker 1: twenty fourth anniversary this week, so you already had a

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Speaker 1: heavy week that was kind of predetermined based on our

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Speaker 1: and we celebrate and we honor and we remember. But

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Speaker 1: in spite of all of that, we had someone actually

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Speaker 1: who was born after nine to eleven who never actually

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Speaker 1: even felt the atrocities of that and what the impact

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Speaker 1: of that, that act of terror created in the generations

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Speaker 1: of folks who have now not even known what it

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Speaker 1: felt like to live through that day. And so, yes,

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Speaker 1: this week's gunman who took out Charlie Kirk was twenty two,

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Speaker 1: so he was not even alive during nine to eleven,

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Speaker 1: which was something to consider, right, like they don't in

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Speaker 1: this age of feeling connected to people and yet in

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Speaker 1: that sense almost creating a band of thieves, like you

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Speaker 1: have this group of people you find online who think

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Speaker 1: like you, and you can create you can create gang

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Speaker 1: so to speak, or just tribalism where you're like, we

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Speaker 1: think this and you think that us versus them, and

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Speaker 1: they never really lived through what we all did on

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven. So that kind of struck me that

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Speaker 1: he was he's younger than my oldest daughter.

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Speaker 2: I think remember al Qaeda, Yes, an Isis, Do you

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Speaker 2: remember the day when September eleventh rolled around an anniversary,

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Speaker 2: and everybody was on heightened alert. You remember that alert

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Speaker 2: system we used to have with the yellow and the

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Speaker 2: orange and the red and the You remember they used

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Speaker 2: to warn us about terrorist organizations. And we found ourselves

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Speaker 2: on September eleventh of this year fearing one of our own.

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Speaker 2: In fear. Politicians weren't canceling their events because they were

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Speaker 2: scared of foreign actor or a terrorist group was going

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Speaker 2: to attack them. They were worried about an American citizen

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Speaker 2: from the other side of whatever political ideology might take

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Speaker 2: a shot at them.

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Speaker 1: And in a weird way, this week, with a single

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Speaker 1: shot and a single political assassination, it's carried more weight

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Speaker 1: in a way because someone was silenced for what they think,

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Speaker 1: silence for what they believe, a targeted and assassinated for

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Speaker 1: having a different opinion than the gunmen. And I think, look,

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Speaker 1: we have these mascul shootings, not to you underplay those

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Speaker 1: and the fear and terror that those instill. But this

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Speaker 1: arbitrary shooting of AR fifteen or some sort of assault

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Speaker 1: rifle where you're just spraying people indiscriminately because you're angry

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Speaker 1: at the world and you have mental health issues, that's

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Speaker 1: a whole other issue. But I think this act this

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Speaker 1: week cut at the core of who we are as Americans,

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Speaker 1: where we literally stand our ground and base our foundation

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Speaker 1: of our country on the freedom of speech and the

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Speaker 1: freedom of being able to have different opinions and to

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Speaker 1: think that if you think differently than someone else and

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Speaker 1: you talk about it loudly and proudly and grandly, maybe

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Speaker 1: even on major social media platforms, that now you are

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Speaker 1: at risk, physical risk, like your life is at risk.

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Speaker 1: That is not the country that we believe in that

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Speaker 1: we've built. And that's I think what's so scary about

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Speaker 1: what happened this week.

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Speaker 2: Now he's not a politician, but it certainly falls in

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Speaker 2: line with political assassinations of what JFK, RFK MLK, Malcolm

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Speaker 2: X all in the sixties was at sixty three, sixty five,

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Speaker 2: sixty eight. I'm missing one of the years, but all

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Speaker 2: of them were silenced because of some power, some voice,

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Speaker 2: some message for what they were saying. They were all

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Speaker 2: silenced for some action they were doing something in their

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Speaker 2: voice intimidated people. That's where we are now, Where do

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Speaker 2: we go robes If politicians are scared to is this

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Speaker 2: going to discourage I always hate this about politics because

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Speaker 2: I always say like, they're really good people out there

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Speaker 2: who could help, and politics turns them off.

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Speaker 1: Correct, the people who actually should and could lead our

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Speaker 1: country into better, calmer, more peaceful waters are the very

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Speaker 1: people who know better than to get into it.

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Speaker 2: So now this you add this to it, my life.

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Speaker 1: Is going to be on the line, right it used

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Speaker 1: to be. My reputation is going to be on the line.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be fodder. I'm going to be torn apart.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's going to rip through every potential skeleton in my closet. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't want that for me. I don't want that

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Speaker 1: from my family because we've all made mistakes. And just

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Speaker 1: to imagine, if your worst mistake was the thing that

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Speaker 1: everyone remembered about you, that was paraded out on every

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Speaker 1: campaign commercial you could watch on television. Yeah, who wants

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Speaker 1: to put themselves and their families through that kind of scrutiny.

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Speaker 1: Not a lot of people. And so you do have

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Speaker 1: a very small pool of people who are even willing

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Speaker 1: to become politicians. Now you add a threat to their

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Speaker 1: life for based for their beliefs, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: times we all know this. To get elected, you have

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Speaker 1: to have a strong opinion. You have to appeal to

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Speaker 1: your base, You have to kind of go to maybe

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Speaker 1: the margins of what you believe to bring along the

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Speaker 1: folks who will get you elected in those primaries. That's

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Speaker 1: just how our politics work. But that very strategy is

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Speaker 1: now what potentially could put you at risk, could put

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Speaker 1: you in the bullseye of somebody who thinks differently than you. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this has been a very scary week for a lot

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Speaker 1: of folks, and I can speak personally that this has

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Speaker 1: and so many people out there who are listening have

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Speaker 1: kids in college, kids in high school, kids in school period,

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Speaker 1: and for whatever reason, this all comes in the midst

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Speaker 1: of these We've had school shootings obviously for years now, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: but now we have these hoaxes, we have these false

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Speaker 1: nine one called my daughter right now. How many times

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Speaker 1: in the last two weeks have I received a phone

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Speaker 1: call from Analyse who is at the University of Colorado Boulder,

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Speaker 1: with some sort of emergency situation, whether it's a report

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Speaker 1: of a gunman, a report of a bomb threat. That's

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Speaker 1: what we're dealing with right now. I believe she literally

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Speaker 1: is on lockdown right now in her home. She was

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Speaker 1: pushed out of campus. There are three bills, things now

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Speaker 1: being searched with canine units and police, and she was

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Speaker 1: she facetimed me, and she's kind of got this nervous laughter,

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Speaker 1: trying to play it off because they're hoping and thinking

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Speaker 1: it's probably a hoax. But with a two different school

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Speaker 1: shootings nearby her just in this week, high schools, and

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Speaker 1: then having what happened in neighboring Utah, I've never seen

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Speaker 1: this level of unease in this country, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know that. I don't know what institution is immune from

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Speaker 1: it at this point.

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Speaker 2: No, and rose to your point about analyse, I get,

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Speaker 2: at what point does she stop getting scared? And just

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Speaker 2: kind of right, you become immune, you become desensitized to

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Speaker 2: a threat, and you kind of roll your eyes. And

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Speaker 2: then that is the one that's going to be the one?

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Speaker 2: Is it not that we can't have this boy who

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Speaker 2: cry wolf attitude? You have to take each and every

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Speaker 2: one of them seriously. But now it's affecting, like there

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Speaker 2: is anxiety, like what's the next thing? Like I'm on

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Speaker 2: edge every day. We get up very early and I

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Speaker 2: turn on the tv R, unlock the phone, and I'm

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Speaker 2: nervous to see the first thing that's going to pop up,

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Speaker 2: like what happened overnight? What is it now? And so

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Speaker 2: this thing and how it looks. It's hard you have

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Speaker 2: to find and we preach it all the time, robes

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Speaker 2: about staying in the moment and enjoying our lives, doing

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Speaker 2: the best we can, kindness and all of these things,

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Speaker 2: and forgiveness even but man, it is hard on a

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Speaker 2: week like this where you just feel anxiety and you

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Speaker 2: feel we didn't know this kid personally, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of the things he said we might even find objectionable. Okay,

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Speaker 2: my heart is breaking for those two kids.

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Speaker 1: And his wife Erica.

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Speaker 2: Oh God, But to see that many people can't even

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Speaker 2: just stop there that two kids lost their dad, Like

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Speaker 2: people are being fired left and right across the country

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Speaker 2: because they are putting out messages and essentially saying, so

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Speaker 2: what that he's dead.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's almost the worst part of the story.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the death of Charlie Kirk is the most

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Speaker 1: tragic and the worst part of the story obviously, So

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Speaker 1: I just want to make that clear. And it's obviously

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Speaker 1: a relief to know that the gunman is behind bars,

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Speaker 1: But I think The sickening aftermath is the continued hoaxes

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Speaker 1: that are being called in and the apathy and the

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Speaker 1: callousness at which so many people are receiving the news

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Speaker 1: of what happened. That there is no empathy, there is

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Speaker 1: no there is no compassion, There is none of that

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Speaker 1: for someone who thinks differently than you. And then you

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Speaker 1: have to ask yourself, how am I any different than

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Speaker 1: the people who?

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Speaker 2: Uh? Nobody gets to that next part? How am I

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Speaker 2: any different? Nobody gets to that part.

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Speaker 1: It's so easy to agree with and be open minded

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Speaker 1: to the people who think like you do. The challenge

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Speaker 1: is keeping that open mind and that open heart towards

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Speaker 1: people who think very differently than you, and that you

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Speaker 1: might even think aren't good people because you're judging them

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Speaker 1: based on your filter. I just it's one of those

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Speaker 1: things where I just I don't We've been screaming this

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Speaker 1: for so long. When is it not going to be enough?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, we thought Newtown was, We

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Speaker 1: thought Paul's Nightclub was, We thought the Las Vegas shootings were.

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Speaker 2: We thought I think you Valdi was the one that

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Speaker 2: sounds great. I think you Valdi was the one that

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Speaker 2: I finally said we will never do anything. I know

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Speaker 2: Newtown should have been the one. And even after Vegas,

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Speaker 2: how awful fifty something Parkland, I forgot Parkland Parklett. Oh

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Speaker 2: my goodness.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just sad. There are so many you forget.

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Speaker 1: And I have been on these campuses. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 1: the most gutting to see. Let me just tell you,

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Speaker 1: in Uvaldi and in Newtown specifically, I was there for

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Speaker 1: days and days and days. And to see those little coffins,

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you, there's nothing like it. And to know

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Speaker 1: that that's suffering and that loss came at the hands

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Speaker 1: of a young man. And here we are again in

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Speaker 1: the same situation, and you just don't know who you

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Speaker 1: can trust. You don't know who's good, who's bad, who

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Speaker 1: is going to snap, and who is just having a

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Speaker 1: bad day. It's really hard to know. And it's really disheartening.

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Speaker 1: And and I'm an adult, you're an adult. How do

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Speaker 1: we talk to our kids about this? I don't even

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Speaker 1: know what to say to analyst at this point.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean, what lesson what are you supposed to

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Speaker 2: say to a kid? You can't explain this evil because

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Speaker 2: I don't understand it. I really don't understand how you

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Speaker 2: get to that point. How is this a gun conversation?

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Speaker 2: It should always be right, access to guns is always

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Speaker 2: worthy of conversation. But what if this is just it's

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Speaker 2: not that. What if it's not mental illness. What if

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Speaker 2: it's just radical behavior? What if this is someone who

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Speaker 2: has just got so caught up. Do you have to

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Speaker 2: be mentally ill to have done what he did? I

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Speaker 2: don't know. Somebody say you have to be just by

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Speaker 2: its nature. Others would just say you are that. Yes,

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Speaker 2: our dialogue in this country has gotten to a point

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Speaker 2: where people it keeps getting hotter and hotter and hotter

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Speaker 2: and hotter.

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Speaker 1: And this the other question is all this technology, have

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Speaker 1: we all become desensitized or at least the younger folks

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Speaker 1: who have not really had to deal in human to

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Speaker 1: human face to face connection, where they've been so removed,

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Speaker 1: like one step removed from actually having people be human,

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Speaker 1: Like if you are on if you're a gamer and

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Speaker 1: you're just everything's virtual, does it take you, like away

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Speaker 1: from the fact that there's a human being on the

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Speaker 1: other side of that debate, there's a human being who

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Speaker 1: is a father, who's a husband, who has dreams, and

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Speaker 1: hopes and is confused and doesn't know what you know.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's like somehow we just we demonize the

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Speaker 1: other side, and then we justify how we feel and

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Speaker 1: then ultimately even justify our actions.

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Speaker 2: Man, No, I just don't have to Europe still think

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Speaker 2: about what you say to your kids. I don't have nothing.

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Speaker 2: I really don't want me talking to Sabin. She has

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Speaker 2: more access to things, she sees more things on that

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Speaker 2: phone that I can't keep them from everything she sees it.

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Speaker 2: What do you say? I mean, I don't want it

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Speaker 2: to be out. I don't want her to be in crowds.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be in crowds. We do events,

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Speaker 2: we make public appearances. We don't have anything close to security,

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Speaker 2: we don't have anything close to crowds like he brings,

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Speaker 2: but we are in the public. Die. I mean, you

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Speaker 2: just you're scared to go out and you're scared to

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Speaker 2: say anything. I don't know what to say to kids

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Speaker 2: that don't know where the hope is. Where we talking

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Speaker 2: about this earlier, there's nothing like the worst thing in

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Speaker 2: life is to lose. Hope is not to die. We

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Speaker 2: think that's the worst thing, but it's actually to you

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Speaker 2: die while you're living by losing something inside and hope

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Speaker 2: is the worst thing you can live.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so when we come back, we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about how we can all live better in the

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Speaker 1: midst of all of this chaos and all of this

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Speaker 1: difficult news, and how we can make a point to

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Speaker 1: not let fear dictate how we live our lives. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back everyone on this Saturday. It is September fourteenth, thirteenth.

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Speaker 1: I jumped ahead. Tomorrow's the fourteenth. Today is the thirteenth,

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Speaker 1: and it's been a hell of a week and a

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Speaker 1: lot of folks. We might be tired, but we're emotionally exhausted,

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Speaker 1: and we've been struggling. I've been struggling. I'm saying we

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Speaker 1: because I can only imagine that everyone kind of is

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Speaker 1: in the same boat in this situation where we're all

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Speaker 1: feeling a bit underwater. I've been struggling with how to

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Speaker 1: talk to my daughters and even how to get through

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Speaker 1: it as a parent, knowing that I don't have control

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Speaker 1: over what happens. My girls are off in the world

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Speaker 1: and ones in college and the others in Brooklyn, and

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Speaker 1: who knows what she does and where she is and

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Speaker 1: we all have this feeling of insecurity, I think, really,

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Speaker 1: and I'm talking physical insecurity, which is just the way the

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Speaker 1: world is, and all of what to believe, who to believe.

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Speaker 1: And I think the point being fear is always is there,

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Speaker 1: and it has been since the beginning of time. And

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Speaker 1: I've really tried to make sure that with what I

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Speaker 1: say to analyse and what I even say to myself,

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Speaker 1: that it isn't fear based, because that doesn't help anything. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we're aware that a threat might be there, but we

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Speaker 1: can't live our lives paralyzed by that fear. I think

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Speaker 1: we have to be motivated by it to make sure

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Speaker 1: we live our lives and every moment to the fullest

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Speaker 1: and not worried about what could happen. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: how do you? How do you tell? Sabine? We had

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Speaker 1: a really interesting conversation with her just the other day.

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Speaker 1: You and I grew up with tornado drills. I grew

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Speaker 1: up in Saint Louis, you grew up for my formative years,

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Speaker 1: and you were in Arkansas. We were talking about how

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Speaker 1: when we had drills in school, we were running out

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Speaker 1: into the hallway and we knew what tornado position was. Right,

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Speaker 1: So beIN had a very different experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they have shooter drills, they have lockdown drills, they

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Speaker 2: have on drills in which they're trained to hide, in

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Speaker 2: which their teachers are trained to lock the door and

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Speaker 2: pull the shade, and they're trained to go barricade themselves

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Speaker 2: in certain areas of the classroom. At that's different. So

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Speaker 2: are we Now this is just a part of our culture.

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Speaker 2: Now we have to be trained to what to expect

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Speaker 2: and what we're putting ourselves at risk, and how we're

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Speaker 2: putting ourselves at risk anytime we show our faces in public.

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Speaker 2: It shouldn't be the case. It's if we need to

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Speaker 2: be mindful of it. I guess we will adjust. It's

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Speaker 2: just a shame to see that this week and we

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Speaker 2: are I feel terrible because we are. We put this

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Speaker 2: in place to recovery Run as really a way to

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Speaker 2: show people, Yeah, you gotta give yourself a beat, take

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Speaker 2: you always got to take a break with you, whether

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Speaker 2: you're actually running or figuratively. During the week. We are

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Speaker 2: all ripping and running figuratively every single week. And man,

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Speaker 2: we have had I had too many weeks where we

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Speaker 2: come on the Recovery Run and say, yeah, We're sorry,

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Speaker 2: we're just really letting you down. We haven't recovered the

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Speaker 2: right way in this today, and this week just feels.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is more of a reflective run,

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Speaker 1: and every now and then you're like, one, Okay, maybe

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Speaker 1: this is our reflective run. But I think it's important

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Speaker 1: to actually verbalize how we're feeling. I mean, there's no

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Speaker 1: way you can consume the news that we've consumed this week.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you think about it. Many of you listening

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Speaker 1: watched that video and maybe even inadvertently, you didn't know

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Speaker 1: what you were about to see. And a lot of

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Speaker 1: your kids have seen it too. You know, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to think it, but they have. It was available

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Speaker 1: to everybody. The things we saw that we weren't prepared

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Speaker 1: for take a toll, and I just think it's important

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Speaker 1: for everybody to take a beat and acknowledge that that

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Speaker 1: weighs on you, and it defeats the human spirit in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways, because you start to think the

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Speaker 1: worst of everybody, Like, is there you know, is there

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Speaker 1: any hope? Is there anyone good in the world left? Yes,

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Speaker 1: and there are mostly good people, and you get a

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Speaker 1: couple bad folks who then make us all feel the

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Speaker 1: weight of that negativity, and I just I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to have a conversation because I'm I was really struggling

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Speaker 1: with with Anna Lisa and what to talk to her

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Speaker 1: about and how to tell her to be vigilant but

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Speaker 1: not to be not to be in any way stopped

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Speaker 1: from living her life because she's in fear, but just

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Speaker 1: to be aware. And I wanted her to just to

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Speaker 1: take it and be kind and never not react to

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Speaker 1: people and if things look scary, walk away. Like you've

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Speaker 1: got to give your kids the tools, but also make

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Speaker 1: them recognize that you can't live like that, like always

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Speaker 1: anticipating worst case scenario. But you get into this mindset

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Speaker 1: when you hear news and you have a week like

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Speaker 1: we did today or this week excuse me, where you

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Speaker 1: just start to feel like, oh my god, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: have to be on high alert and you're one of

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Speaker 1: those people your head's on a swivel. We talk about

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Speaker 1: it a lot. How do you balance that awareness with

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Speaker 1: making sure it doesn't dictate your life and stop you

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Speaker 1: from doing things you love and being with people and

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Speaker 1: being at events and things you want to do, concerts

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Speaker 1: and parades and you know, football games all of these things.

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Speaker 1: Now it's you know, in the back of your mind.

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Speaker 1: Ann Alice told me she was worried about going to

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Speaker 1: the football game this weekend. That's so incredibly sad. That's

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Speaker 1: so incredibly sad.

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Speaker 2: That has to be on her mind, any young person's mind,

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Speaker 2: in any of our minds, but it is. And folks,

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Speaker 2: we can't say it enough. Just be as kind as

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Speaker 2: you can, yeah, and how good as tight as you can,

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Speaker 2: and don't miss in a moment because you don't know

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Speaker 2: if it's going to be the last. You were talking

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Speaker 2: about this earlier, What was the last thing, Charlie Kirk

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Speaker 2: said to his wife. Yeah, And she said to him,

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Speaker 2: not knowing that it was going to be the last time.

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Speaker 2: You never think it's going to be the last time,

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Speaker 2: and you can't necessarily live it sounds morbid, but you

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Speaker 2: just youd never know.

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Speaker 1: So that's always the takeaway in all of these moments.

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Speaker 1: The takeaway is to love, to live, to be kind

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Speaker 1: to the way to defeat darkness is through light and

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Speaker 1: through love, and so that's how we will get through.

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Speaker 1: But the conversation, I think is an important one to

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Speaker 1: have with yourself and with the people you love and

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Speaker 1: hopefully it can remind us all to take advantage of

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Speaker 1: the time that we do have with one another to

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Speaker 1: be loving and kind. So anyway, with that everyone, we

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Speaker 1: hope you have a wonderful Saturday and a great weekend.

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Speaker 1: I made me roback alongside TJ. Holmes. We'll talk to

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Speaker 1: you soon.