1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: A few episodes ago, I challenged mildly something that Clay 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Travis said about social media being the reason for unhappiness 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: for young people. I said, it wasn't social media exactly. 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: And I know listeners of the show have heard this before, 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: because there is no social media anymore. Nobody is socializing, 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: not even on their phones or anywhere, and that is 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: the bigger problem. A listener named Kurt wrote in to 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: add to the conversation, and I'll read you part of 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: his email. Hi, Carol, fan of you and the show 11 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: you led with Clay Travis blaming social media for the 12 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,959 Speaker 1: decline and the happiness index. You added that scrolling through 13 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: videos for hours and hours contributes to Of course, you're 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: both correct, But why is social media dragging people down 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: not up? Now? Kurt writes that intersectionality is effectively causing this. 16 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: That's the belief that more relevant is attained by those 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: belonging to more victim groups, he writes, and that politics 18 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: is affecting the way people see themselves. He writes, this 19 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: mindset and fixation on victims over heroes permeates our culture, 20 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: dark pop, categorized by its dark, moody and often melancholic sound, 21 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: is now a top genre and home to many cultural 22 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: icons like Billie Eilish and Halsey. It's now cool to 23 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: be depressed and seek and celebrate victim status. I agree 24 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: with that, but I would say I listened to heavy 25 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: metal growing up. That didn't mean that, you know, I 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: became a moody, kind of angry person. That was common 27 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: of those bands. I think music a lot of times 28 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: is an emotional release and doesn't really represent what people 29 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: are doing. But I agree, I agree that it's a 30 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,919 Speaker 1: sign of something. He writes, when we celebrate milestones today, 31 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: instead of celebrating heroism, we're still celebrating victimhood. Like Pete 32 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: but a Judge being the first openly gay Cabinet secretary, 33 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: as defined at the top of his Wikipedia page, his 34 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: identity to a victim group is celebrated first and foremost intersectionality. 35 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: The implicit part of that is it's still a world 36 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: in society of oppression. How could you be happy with 37 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: our society and status quo because of this bigotry. Our 38 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: fixation with victim status is a major problem affecting our 39 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: culture and happiness. He writes, we're training kids to look 40 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: for victim groups to belong to, and we've supplanted victims 41 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: for heroes and role models. Put yourself in the shoes 42 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: of a minor in the twenty twenties. 43 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 2: Who are you being. 44 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: Told to be as a hero and why is that 45 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: person heroic? Now? I agree with all of that, of course, 46 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: but I think both things can be true. When you 47 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: see yourself as a perpetual victim and you don't have 48 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: friends to socialize with, then you never have anyone telling 49 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: you to just get over it. An episode earlier in 50 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: the show with Kirsten Fleming earlier this year, you know, 51 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: she said that one of the best parts of having 52 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: friends is learning how to make fun of each other 53 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: and learn how to take the humor at you. And 54 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: I think when you're a perpetual victim and you don't 55 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: have anybody to tell you cut that out, it reinforces 56 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: it and you wallow in your loneliness. A lot of 57 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: our problems are because of this. People who can't meet 58 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: a romantic partner, for example, often don't have a friend 59 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: to tell them why that is really truly the case. 60 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: I agree that the victimhood era has hurt us all, 61 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: but it's much harder to peel yourself out of that 62 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: when you have no one to talk to because you're 63 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,399 Speaker 1: staring at your phone. Thanks for listening, and I love 64 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: getting your emails. Carol Markowitz Show at gmail dot com 65 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: would love to hear from you. Coming up next and 66 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: interview with Billy Binyon. Join us after the break. Welcome 67 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest 68 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: today is Billy Binyon. Billy is a reporter at Reason. Hi, Billy, 69 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: is so nice to have you on. 70 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. 71 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: So, I've had a lot of libertarians on. I consider 72 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: myself very libertarian adjacent. You guys have the best parties. 73 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: I say that all the time. You know it's true. 74 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: I've had definitely true. 75 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, Matt Welch, Nick Gillespie, you know, Nancy Ramwoman, et cetera. 76 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: What is the worst part about being a libertarian? Because 77 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: I know what the best part is the best part 78 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: is you don't have to be on either lunatic side. 79 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: You don't have to support anything you don't want to support. 80 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: You could just go your own way. But what's the 81 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: worst part? 82 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 2: Okay, So I would say that the description you gave 83 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 2: is very accurate, but I would also say that that's 84 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 2: kind of the flip side of that same coin is 85 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: the worst part, which is that being politically homeless, you 86 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 2: will always find agreement with people, whether you're on the 87 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: far left, Democrats, Republicans, whatever the case may be. But 88 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: it also means that you will find there will always 89 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 2: be someone who hates everything you have to say or 90 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 2: can nitpick something you have to say. And so I 91 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: think the we joke at reason, you know, you when 92 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 2: you look at the common or like the emails we get, 93 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,799 Speaker 2: it's it's you know a lot of people are like, wow, 94 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: you guys love Trump, or wow, you guys are really 95 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 2: in you know, you guys are all Biden fangirls or whatever. 96 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: It's like, well, neither one of those things are true. 97 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: Right. It's funny that you refer to yourself as politically homeless, 98 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: because I always saw like I see politically homeless, like 99 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: Bridget Fetasie, you know, used to be on the left, 100 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: can't be on the left anymore, voted for Trump like 101 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: that to me is politically homeless. Libertarian was always its 102 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: own kind of category. Do you not see it? Like that. 103 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 2: I don't. I've never been a member of the Libertarian Party. 104 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 2: I don't know how familiar you are with it. 105 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: I am skin Every once in a while, somebody dies 106 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: your skin blue by accident. 107 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: It's a bit of a circus, and it's not really 108 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 2: it's not my thing. I mean, libertarian, like the value, 109 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: the basic philosophy is something I very much align with. 110 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: But when it comes to a political party, I mean, 111 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 2: the current iteration is a bunch of people who are 112 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: just trying to get attention on the internet. They're not 113 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: really interested in winning elections. 114 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: And this is different you think from Republicans and Democrats. 115 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 2: Well, I think I think that basically any political party 116 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: kind of falls is vulnerable to becoming a bit of 117 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 2: a circus. I mean it's just I think it's you know, 118 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: you become beholden to kind of the loudest voices in 119 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: the party who are often advocating for things that are 120 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 2: out of touch with the mainstream. I mean, I know 121 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: libertarianism is not mainstream in a lot of ways, but 122 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: in some ways, you know, the whole like socially liberal, 123 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: fiscally conservative is yeah, right exactly. It's an oversimplification in 124 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 2: the philosophy, but that does resonate with a lot of people, 125 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 2: and you have a party apparatus that I think if 126 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 2: most people were to acquaint themselves with, they would be like, 127 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 2: what is this? M M, it's not It's not something 128 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 2: that I really relate with. 129 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: I see. 130 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 2: So even though I was, I'm not really formally at 131 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: the left, I actually very much relate with Bridget and 132 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 2: being politically homeless. I feel like there's no there's no 133 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 2: one that really speaks for me and on the mainstream 134 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 2: political stage. 135 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: Interesting. Did you always want to be a reporter? No? 136 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: So I have a very weird entry into journalism. 137 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's hear it. 138 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: I used to be a performer. I studied voice and 139 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: worked at an opera company for a bit after school. 140 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: For a couple of years, I did some professional musical 141 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 2: theater and that kind of thing. I know that politics 142 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: and media. 143 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: He seemed too good looking for journalism. 144 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 2: Politics and media. I feel like it's full of a 145 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: bunch of X theater kids, and I am I don't 146 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: want to say, among them, but I hide it. And 147 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 2: I remember I was doing a show actually Red for Madness, 148 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: which is a parody of the nineteen twenties that was 149 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: meant to the scarecads out of smoking weed and it's 150 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: about this teenage boy who smokes weed and descends into madness. 151 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: And so that was me and the director's wife. I 152 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 2: remember after one of the shows, was like, well, how 153 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: are you feeling about ever read like how life is going? 154 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: And I was like, well, not great. And I was 155 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: I think twenty two at the time, and she was like, well, 156 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 2: I work at a defense contractor. You want to come 157 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: try it? 158 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: So I ended up working Can I act there? 159 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 2: Right? So I'm planning NATO, which randomly is on a 160 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: Navy base in Norfolk, Virginia, Okay, and then eventually segued 161 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: into doing some media stuff for them. Was like, Okay, 162 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: I really like this, but I don't know if I'm 163 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: really if I really want to do it, like exclusively 164 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 2: for the military. And so eventually made my way to 165 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: d S and landed at Reason And I think the 166 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: through line, you know, the thing that kind of connects 167 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 2: all those things. I really do love telling stories, and 168 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 2: I'm very interested in people's stories. I cover civil liberties 169 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 2: and criminal justice issues. Stories that are very there's always 170 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 2: you know, people, or at least one person at the 171 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 2: center of a you know, when you look at a 172 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: court case or something and it might sound really boring, 173 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: and then you dig into the waves, like, oh, this 174 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 2: is actually like there are a lot of moving parts 175 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 2: to this and it's very human. I never actually I 176 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 2: loved rehearsing. I never actually liked performing. Yes, oh my gosh, I'm. 177 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: That performing was the whole thing, Like, yeah, you're totally right. 178 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 2: When you talk to a lot of professional performers, usually 179 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 2: it's the inverse of what I just said, you know, 180 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 2: going to rehearsals kind of a chore for them, and 181 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: then performing is what they're like all about. I found that, 182 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 2: you know, I would kind I just nitpicked everything. And 183 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 2: live performance is thrilling in that way where you never 184 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: know what's going to happen, but it's also dreadful in 185 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 2: that way and that you never know what's going to happen, 186 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 2: especially when it's your voice and like it's very physical, 187 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 2: so you just never really know. Sometimes it doesn't, It 188 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 2: just simply does not come out the way you wanted to. 189 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: And I really I really had a hard time with that. 190 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: I also, I don't know if you've seen Miss Congeniality, 191 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 2: one of the. 192 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: Best movies Bullock right, yes. 193 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 2: And she has this line about how you know, all 194 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 2: the other beauty queens are like hoping the other one 195 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 2: fails because they want the title. And I felt that way. 196 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 2: I felt like even in some rehearsals, you know, you 197 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: go and you're still kind of like everyone's kind of 198 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 2: really waiting you and they want your spot. And I 199 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: don't know. 200 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: When when celebrities say we were just one big family 201 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: on the show, they're. 202 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: Lying, Well, I ever did television at least in in 203 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 2: I just did you know theater and like. 204 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: Stage stuff, well theater even more so, I think they all. 205 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 2: Say, yeah, ever heard someone say that, Yeah, that's definitely 206 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 2: a lie. But I mean friends with a lot of 207 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 2: these people because it's very intense, it's very social. But yeah, 208 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: it's some of the backstabbyists, some of the most backstabbyist 209 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 2: environment I've ever been in. 210 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,119 Speaker 1: Interesting not libertarian politics. 211 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 2: Then I guess, well, it's probably up there too, to 212 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: be honest, I like with writing and in journalism, you 213 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 2: can like you're still telling a story, but you know, 214 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 2: before I publish an article, I can like put the 215 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 2: finishing touches on it and be happy with what I'm 216 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: putting out to the world, whereas like if you walk 217 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 2: on stage and you crack, you can't take that back, right, 218 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: that's what people remember that. Yeah, oh yeah, it was 219 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 2: great except for the you know that came out. 220 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: Right, So you're right about civil liberties? Do you have 221 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: like a beat within that? 222 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 2: So it used to be I used to like focus 223 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 2: really narrowly on stuff like qualified immunity, things that make 224 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 2: it very hard to hold government accountable. I've kind of 225 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 2: expanded out from that. I'm very interested in the idea that, 226 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 2: you know, people who enforced the law should not be 227 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 2: above it, and I think that is I used to 228 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 2: see that more narrowly, but now I mean it's kind 229 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 2: of widened out. For instance, I Cover I did a 230 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 2: series last year and the year before on people who 231 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 2: felt behind on their property taxes and so the local 232 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: governments seize their homes and sold them and kept the profits. 233 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 2: I read that, yeah, right, which is like, I mean, 234 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 2: people wouldn't necessarily think of that as government accountability, but 235 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 2: like to me, it was because it was just like 236 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 2: I mean, like that if you said someone on the 237 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 2: street told someone on the street, they would think that 238 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: was theft, right, And I'm just kind of fascinated by 239 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: the idea that the government gets to hold itself to 240 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: a different standard. 241 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: So hasn't read any movement on that, has anything changed. 242 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 2: The Supreme Court case. The Supreme Court ruled in favor 243 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 2: of one of the women that I covered, but a 244 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 2: lot of states have responded by trying to write debt 245 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: collection statutes to get all out get around the Supreme 246 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 2: Court's ruling, which is both predictable and really perverse. So 247 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 2: still kind of still following stories like that, but I'm 248 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 2: interested sounds like civil forfeiture or the police law enforcement 249 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 2: can seize property without necessarily proving in a court of 250 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: law that it was connected to criminal wrongdoing? Right these things? 251 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: How do they get to do that? Like, what's the 252 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: what's the law that allows that? 253 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 2: So the idea is that civil forfeiture is constitutional because 254 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 2: the law enforcement are taking assets that are supposedly connected 255 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 2: to criminal activity, but they could do. 256 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: It even before guilty. 257 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: Perfect. Yeah, in most in most case that is the 258 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 2: case where it's it's a conviction isn't required, sometimes not 259 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 2: even an arrest. In a lot of states, you don't 260 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: even have to have an arrest required. And since it's 261 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 2: a civil action not a criminal action. You're not entitled 262 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: to an attorney, and so a lot of you know, 263 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 2: people would respond on why don't they just go to court? 264 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 2: If they're in they can go prove. So well, if 265 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 2: you don't have any money because law enforcement seized it, 266 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 2: or if you can't afford an attorney, generally the state 267 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: doesn't have to appoint you one. People either have to 268 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 2: give up and walk away or they have to represent themselves, 269 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 2: which goes about as well as you would assume. And 270 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 2: to me, I know, criminal justice has, you know, kind 271 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 2: of the conversation on a national level has become a 272 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 2: little unhinged at least in my view, and is another 273 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: one of those cases where a lot of you know, 274 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 2: the fringiest voices are hogging the microphone. But this is 275 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 2: an issue that I really think whether you're a Republican, Democrat, libertarian, 276 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: whatever I mean. In Congress, that's the case. There's bipartisan 277 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 2: proposals around curtailing this, but it you know, it's not 278 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 2: like an issue that gets a lot of play in 279 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: the press, so they always kind of stall. But I 280 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 2: think this is an everyone issue. If the government, the 281 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 2: monopoly uenforce in power is going to take your car, 282 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 2: your cash, your home. I think at the very least 283 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 2: people can agree that they should have to prove in 284 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 2: a court of law, you know, with a conviction that 285 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 2: it was. 286 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: Connection to be an easy call. I mean, even if 287 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: you agree with the premise, just getting to the guilty 288 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: verdict first seems like that we can all agree on that. 289 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: Who you know, I consider myself pretty hardcore on crime, 290 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: but that's you know, if you're not even convicted of 291 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: anything yet, how could they take away you know, your assets. 292 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: Is crazy, it is, and it sounds like kind of 293 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 2: like a parody, but it's real. I mean, like I 294 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 2: covered a case a couple of years ago where it 295 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: was two women in Alabama, both of whose cars were 296 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 2: seized because they let I think in one case it 297 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: was her son, in one case it was her friend. 298 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: They let these two men borrow their cars and they 299 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: didn't know each other. Two different cases, but just very 300 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: similar outcomes where the police pulled them over. I think 301 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: in one case the guy had weed. In the other 302 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 2: case that might have been methamphetic mean, not sure exactly which, 303 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: but they seized both vehicles despite the fact that the 304 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 2: owners of those cars were not even accused of a crime, 305 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: much less arrested or convicted, and just crazy stories like that. 306 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 2: It's something that I think it offends most people's perception 307 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 2: of basic fairness, right. 308 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: It just doesn't seem like that's justice, right. 309 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 2: And I think people who haven't had this happen to them. 310 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: Which is most people, right, It's hard for people to 311 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: put themselves in these shoes, but just imagine, like, you know, 312 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: having your car seized. 313 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 2: A lot of people have to drive to work, right. 314 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 2: It makes getting by in life very difficult, makes supporting 315 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: yourself hard, and it can have all these domino ripple 316 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: effects that are really catastrophic for people who haven't even 317 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 2: been convicted. 318 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: And I think the argument that becomes, you know, people 319 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: would say, well, I wouldn't let my car, let my 320 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: cards somebody who was doing drugs, And you know, sometimes 321 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: you just don't know. Sometimes it is your kids, sometimes 322 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: it's a relative, and you just are not aware. It 323 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're like, hey, crack user, come take 324 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: my car. 325 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 2: You know, like absolutely, And I'll also say that there 326 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 2: are some cases where police will seize if they just 327 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 2: find someone with like a large share of cash in 328 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: their car. This happens at the airport a lot or 329 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 2: federal law enforcement. If you're traveling with a lot of cash, 330 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 2: they will just say, well, people, normal people don't travel 331 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: with a lot of cash, so this must be connected 332 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 2: to the drug trade, for instance, even if they don't 333 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 2: find drugs on the person at all, And there are 334 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 2: plenty of cases of this. I'm not just pulling this 335 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 2: out of my ass. This happens. You know, it's well documented, 336 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 2: and I think, you know, maybe some people agree it 337 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 2: is weird to travel with a lot of cash, but 338 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: also weird. 339 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, it definitely makes me suspicious if 340 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: you're traveling with a bunch of cash. I either yeah, 341 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: I just don't. I don't even know where to even get. 342 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 2: Cash, right. But I think at the very least we 343 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 2: should expect the government to prove that it was actually 344 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 2: part of a drug as opposed to you know, the 345 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 2: one case I cover where the guy was like, well, 346 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 2: I was trying to start a business and I was 347 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 2: moving stay and it's always you know, it's there's more 348 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 2: nuanced than people would like to believe. 349 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: I think we're going to take a quick break and 350 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: be right back on the Carol Marcowitch show, what do 351 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: you worry about? 352 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 2: Mm? Okay, So I do not mean this as a 353 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 2: cop out, but I'm going to make the case. Yeah 354 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 2: for not worrying. 355 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: I like it. 356 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 2: Let's right, is I suppose plenty to worry about? How 357 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 2: told you I am thirty three? 358 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: Okay, you look like twenty one. 359 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:42,479 Speaker 2: I appreciate that. 360 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: I So I was gonna be like, yeah, of course 361 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: you're not worrying. You're like just the good lighting its 362 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: twenty years old. Yeah. 363 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 2: I recently interviewed a man of Knox, the woman who 364 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 2: was arrested in Italy and barding a roommate and later 365 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: exonerated and so uh. In talking to HER's she had 366 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 2: this this little nugget of wisdom where I was basically 367 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 2: just like, how do you go about life? For four years? 368 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 2: Locked up in terrible conditions? She's constantly harassed. I mean, 369 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 2: of course her for people aren't familiar. Her case was 370 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 2: sensationalized in every way. And she said something where she 371 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 2: was just like, the only thing I had control over 372 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 2: was my day to day. So like worrying or panicking 373 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: about the position she was in, it wasn't going to 374 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 2: do anything. She just had to make the best of 375 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 2: that situation, and most of us aren't going to end 376 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 2: up in prison for a crime we didn't commit. But 377 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 2: I think that is very transferable to anyone. I mean, 378 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 2: I think that, especially working in the media, there is 379 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 2: a pro panic bias where I mean, because it's a 380 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 2: business model and panic gets people engaged, activated, and I 381 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 2: understand it. I mean, I'm probably guilty of it too sometimes, 382 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 2: But I think it is also object actively true that 383 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 2: panicking or worrying about something doesn't do anything to change 384 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 2: it other than get yours all levels up, you know. 385 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: And so even though there is much wrong with the world, 386 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 2: I think if I have one big bias, it's like 387 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 2: an anti panic bias. 388 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: I like it, and I hope you maintain that. I 389 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: feel like it gets harder a little bit as you get. 390 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 2: Older, probably, And I also don't have kids, I mean, yeah, 391 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 2: that's kids, right, So yeah, and. 392 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: A lot of people on the show answer that they 393 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: worry about their kids, I mean just general worry, you know. 394 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: But Tom Petty said, you know, most things I worry 395 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: about never happened anyway, and there's definitely some truth to 396 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: that as well. So what advice would you give your 397 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: sixteen year old self. 398 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 2: I would tell myself to stop taking yourself so seriously. 399 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 2: I took myself so seriously, and at that age and 400 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 2: into early adulthood, I just I wanted so badly to 401 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 2: be successful, and I thought that every little decision you 402 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 2: made so consequential. And it's in some cases that's true. 403 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know, sounds. 404 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: Like you're worried a little when you're younger. 405 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, my anti panic bias rather 406 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 2: has not been something that has used to panic a lot. 407 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: I'll say, was it part of the performing life? 408 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 2: Like I would say that was the main part of it. Actually, 409 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 2: I was so caught up in feeling like that's what 410 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: made me special, was that I was a good singer, 411 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 2: especially as a male. You know, people when you're a 412 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 2: guy who can sing in theater and like dance and 413 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 2: act whatever, people are just like you're such a commodity. 414 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 2: Whereas like for women, it's just so much more competitive 415 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 2: because more women, frankly, are just more they're more interested 416 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 2: in doing it. You're talking to a good friend last 417 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 2: night whose daughter is pursuing ballet and she was learning 418 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 2: point for the first time, and it's three men who 419 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 2: they had to bring in from a professional company because 420 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 2: how many boys in their school and like twenty girls. 421 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: And it's like, I don't know, you know, as a 422 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: guy in the performing arts, it's it's you're just kind 423 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 2: of held up on a pedestal. And I just I 424 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 2: was so neurotic about being perfect, yeah, and having that 425 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 2: be like the thing that defined me. And the thing 426 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 2: is it's not that serious. There are more important things 427 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 2: in life than getting an opportunity on stage. 428 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 1: Or my sixth grade son just tried out for his 429 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: school play and we were like, you're not going to 430 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 1: make it, Like not because we're terrible parents or anything. 431 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: He's in sixth grade, so you know, bottom of the 432 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 1: totem pole in middle school. He has zero acting or 433 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: singing ability. I mean, you know, he's just new to it. 434 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: So we were like, you know, prepare yourself to not 435 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: not to not get apart, but you're going to be 436 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,239 Speaker 1: like truck Driver number twelve, Like, don't don't think you're 437 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,239 Speaker 1: getting the lead. He got two speaking parts because there 438 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: are just no boys trying for anything, right, Yeah, So 439 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: we'll see how that goes. But maybe he'll follow you 440 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: to the life on the on the stage. 441 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 2: Hey, I wish us luck. I mean it can be 442 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 2: really great and really fun by Bertie, you know, so, 443 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 2: oh my gosh, that's a classic. 444 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's he's Hugo the boyfriend, and then another, yeah, and. 445 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 2: Then another and that you would usually never be double cast. 446 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 2: So that's how you know, really. 447 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: They really don't have anyone, right, Yeah, So you know 448 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: he's he's very happy and he's like excited about being 449 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: on the stage and you know, we'll see. I'm not 450 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: gonna let him worry about it. 451 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 2: But do you think you'll be nervous watching from the audience. 452 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. He's a he's a performer 453 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: in his in his everyday life. So yeah, well, I've 454 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: loved this conversation. This has been so much fun. And 455 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: us here with your best tip from my listeners on 456 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: how they can improve their lives. 457 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 2: Hmm. I don't know if this sounds super corny, and 458 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 2: maybe it sounds super critical if someone works in the media, 459 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 2: But I when my friends come to me and they're like, 460 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, I can't listen to or I can't 461 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 2: read your stuff right now because I'm just like too strong. Right, Yeah, 462 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 2: it's okay to tune that out, and I think it's 463 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: important to like know what's going on. But if there's 464 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 2: one thing in my life when I say earlier, you know, 465 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 2: like don't take things so seriously. That's one thing that 466 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 2: has made my life really fulfilling. It is my friendships. 467 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 2: And that sounds super corny, and I'm more aware of 468 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,959 Speaker 2: about corny that sounds. But yeah, I think that's the 469 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: most important part of life and fulfilling life is the 470 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 2: people around you. And if you have good people around you, 471 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 2: then that's a that's a pretty good life lived. 472 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, And I encourage my friends not 473 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 1: to read my stuff and not to read anything that 474 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: pisses them off or enrages them in any. 475 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 2: Way, even if it's totally agree. 476 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: You know, why go through life like angry at things 477 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: you can't control? 478 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 2: And sure not everything in life has to be filtered 479 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 2: through a political lens, you know. I feel like you 480 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 2: and I both know very well that essentially everything in life, 481 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 2: if you're in a certain space, it's political, and we 482 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 2: don't have to be. 483 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: It doesn't. And I would say, all sort of people 484 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 1: who are you know, not in our world, but end 485 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: up reading something and it makes them angry and whatever. 486 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: A lot of the left and the right at at 487 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: you know, at in our world and in let's say, 488 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,360 Speaker 1: like in the in the government world as well, they 489 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: hang out together, they have friendships, they're able to overlook 490 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,719 Speaker 1: all of this. What you see is a lot of 491 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: like professional wrestling stuff right now on the internet. Yeah, 492 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,199 Speaker 1: it's not it's not really the way it is. I 493 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: like to say, you know, and Culture used to hang 494 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: out with like lots of MSNBC people, and you know, 495 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: if she could do it, the rest of us are. 496 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 2: Okay, that's very true. 497 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: He is Billy Binyon. Check him out at Reason. Thank 498 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: you so much, Billy for coming on. Thanks, thanks so 499 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: much for joining us on the Carol Marco Wood Show. 500 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.