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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Imagine walking through a beautiful

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Speaker 1: cops of dense woods, enjoying your morning, when suddenly you

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Speaker 1: see a welcome to the fabulous Las Vegas suitcase, and

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Speaker 1: of course, curiosity gets the better of you. You open

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Speaker 1: it up and you don't find a lot of casino chips,

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Speaker 1: you don't find a lot of money. Inside, you find

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Speaker 1: a dead boy. That is exactly what happened. The body

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Speaker 1: of a five year old little boy found and a

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Vegas suitcase. But now who is he and

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Speaker 1: how did he get there? I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at

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Speaker 1: Fox Nation in series XM one eleven. First of all,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at wh S shocking

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Speaker 1: story that's been developing since the weekend. New evidence released

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Speaker 1: by Indiana State Police moments ago in the discovery of

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Speaker 1: a little boy's body in the woods in southern Indiana,

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Speaker 1: the chilling reality that he may have been dumped there

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Speaker 1: from somewhere else. This photo of a suitcase. Indiana State

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Speaker 1: Police tell us the body of the little boy was

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Speaker 1: found inside this suitcase, and for the first time, they

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Speaker 1: have given a specific location. The seven thousand block of

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Speaker 1: East Holder Road in Washington County, Indiana. The wooded area

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Speaker 1: there that southeast of Salem. Now the discovery was made

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Speaker 1: by a person hunting for mushrooms over the weekend. Also

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Speaker 1: new today, an autopsy was performed. Police have not released

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Speaker 1: any results, nor they have released no possible cause of death,

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Speaker 1: and they still do not know his identity. We do

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Speaker 1: know the police say the boy is only five to

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Speaker 1: eight years old. They add that he could have been

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Speaker 1: from anywhere, not just southern Indiana. Investigators say they have

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Speaker 1: been searching the wooded area where the boy was found,

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Speaker 1: but the information has not led them to any answers. Again,

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Speaker 1: a five year old little boy stuffed into a suitcase,

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Speaker 1: and the only clue we have so far is a

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Speaker 1: sticker of sorts on the suitcase. It says welcome to

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Speaker 1: the fabulous Las Vegas with the iconic photo there where

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Speaker 1: so many people take a picture in front of it

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Speaker 1: the background of Vegas. Why who is this little boy?

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Speaker 1: How did he die? How can we trace his whereabouts?

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Speaker 1: Because that's the only way we're going to find out

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Speaker 1: who put him in that suitcase? Again, I Meanancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Here on Fox Nation

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Speaker 1: in series six one eleven. I've got an all star

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Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we know right now.

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Speaker 1: But very first I want to go to Max Lewis,

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter with Fox fifty nine joining us out of Indianapolis. Max,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. First of all,

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Speaker 1: what can you tell me about the area where the

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Speaker 1: suitcase was found? So, yeah, this is in Washington County, Indiana.

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Speaker 1: It's about we're a little over halfway from Indianapolis down

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Speaker 1: to about the Louisville area, and it's extremely rural, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it really is shocking that this kind of thing

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Speaker 1: would happen here. These people don't really see much going

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Speaker 1: on down there, and for them to find a boy

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Speaker 1: in a suitcases pretty shocking. But as you said, the

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Speaker 1: person that found this was doing mushroom hunting, So you

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Speaker 1: think you can't just do that in some near you know,

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Speaker 1: some city, some urban areas. So he was in a

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Speaker 1: pretty rural area in some country roads, not too far

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Speaker 1: off the interstate Act. Okay, Max Lewis joined me from

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Speaker 1: Fox fifty nine. Got so many questions for you, Max,

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Speaker 1: you said, it's halfway between Louisville and what it's halfway

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Speaker 1: between Louisville and Indianapolis on the I sixty five corridor.

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Speaker 1: There how far aways is from I sixty five. It's

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Speaker 1: only a couple of miles from what I've been told

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Speaker 1: from police off of the interstate. There a couple of

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Speaker 1: miles off the interstate with me, as I said, an

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Speaker 1: all star pound. But before we get going with them,

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Speaker 1: having spoken to Max Lewis with Fox fifty nine, I

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Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to our friends at

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Speaker 1: wh S eleven. The man who found this boy, Jeff Meredith,

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Speaker 1: is in agony knowing he was one of the last

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Speaker 1: people to see this child's face. When I first saw

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Speaker 1: that little feller, immediately I felt that he was telling me,

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Speaker 1: help me, I need help. The Washington County Sheriff's Office

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Speaker 1: is holding a memorial service for the little boy. The

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Speaker 1: community is invited to honor him next Wednesday, June one,

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Speaker 1: at eleven in the morning. It will be held at

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Speaker 1: Weather's Funeral Home in Salem. And remember, if you know

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Speaker 1: anything about an unreported missing boy about five years old,

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Speaker 1: short hair and about forty pounds, or if you saw

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Speaker 1: this suitcase in southern Indiana, contact ESP at its designated

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Speaker 1: tip line. This case, that number is eight eight eight

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Speaker 1: four three seven six four three two repet eight eight

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Speaker 1: four three seven six four three two Straight out to

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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Duprie, former forensic pathologist, medical examiner and detective.

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Speaker 1: Author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide and Investigating Child Abuse

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Speaker 1: Field Guide, which we need your expertise and both of

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Speaker 1: these areas, Doctor Michelle Dupree, First of all, I want

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about the location, location, location, location.

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Speaker 1: It's not just about real estate. It gives me a

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Speaker 1: plethora of clues. We're gonna need to figure this thing out.

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Speaker 1: First of all, you've got a very rural, densely wooded

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Speaker 1: area halfway between Indiana and Louisville. It's just a few

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Speaker 1: miles off the I sixty five corridor. Now what does

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Speaker 1: that tell me? And what can I learn from the

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Speaker 1: area from the suitcase, Doctor Duprie, Can I talk to

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Speaker 1: you about mushroom hunting, because when someone finds a body,

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Speaker 1: they're the first person you'll look at. When somebody calls

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Speaker 1: nine one one, they're the first person you look at.

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Speaker 1: In no way has the mushroom hunter come under suspicion,

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Speaker 1: but that is a starting place so let's talk about

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Speaker 1: mushroom hunting in itself, Doctor Michelle Duprie. That was let

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Speaker 1: me just say, you don't hear that every day? Right,

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Speaker 1: that's right answer, you don't. Well, doctor Michelle Dupree. I

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Speaker 1: was expecting a little more from you than the yes

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Speaker 1: no you just gave me. Let me go to Max

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Speaker 1: Lewis joining me, Fox fifty nine. Apparently MOREL season is

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Speaker 1: upon us. MOREL mushrooms love Indiana. Tell me about it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they sure do. They start when the beginning of spring,

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Speaker 1: and this suitcase was found in early April, so right

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Speaker 1: about the time. A lot of people do it. It's

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Speaker 1: a very common activity. They go out, they go to

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Speaker 1: deeply wooded areas they search for these morale mushrooms and

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Speaker 1: they're pretty actually hard to find and kind of rare.

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Speaker 1: So if you come upon them, you're doing a pretty

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Speaker 1: good job. But it's a common activity that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people do, so wouldn't really raise any suspicion that

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Speaker 1: this guy was going out and doing that at this time.

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Speaker 1: Old timers say, quote, when the oat leaves are the

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Speaker 1: size of a mouse's ear, that's the time to look

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Speaker 1: for morals. Okay, I'm going to take that with a

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Speaker 1: box of salt. Max Lewis, again, this guy that finds

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Speaker 1: the body is not under suspicion. What I'm saying is

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Speaker 1: that's where you start your investigation if you've got nothing else.

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Speaker 1: And joining me Karen L. Smith, forensic expert joining us

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Speaker 1: out of La Lecturer University, Florida, host a hit series,

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Speaker 1: Shattered Soul's podcast, Karen, we got enough. So that's why

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about this guy. This guy is not under suspicion.

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Speaker 1: He's not even a person of interest. He's not a suspect.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying very simply that when you've got nothing, that's

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Speaker 1: where you start your investigation. And I guess we could

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Speaker 1: also start with the suitcase and what the little boy

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Speaker 1: is wearing, but let's finish it up about the mushroom hunter. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's not under suspicion, and nor should he be, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I think, wait a minute, whoa wait, wait wait, I

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Speaker 1: don't think he should be. No, that's where I just start.

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Speaker 1: Somebody standing there with a dead body. You darn right,

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Speaker 1: the cops better investigate that guy. Oh absolutely, I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about questioning him. I don't think that he should be

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Speaker 1: under suspicion for doing anything wrong. I think he came

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Speaker 1: upon a suitcase. I think his voice tells the story.

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Speaker 1: He was very distraught. Oh hey, Karen, just remember the

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Speaker 1: poor soul. I think his name was Ray Kronk that

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Speaker 1: found Tott Mom's daughter killing Anthony. That guy was so

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Speaker 1: mistreated online by so many people. He started calling police

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Speaker 1: weeks before they finally came out and followed up on

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Speaker 1: his call. He said he saw something weird and strange

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Speaker 1: off the road, and I've been to the spot many times.

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Speaker 1: It is off the road, but if you look carefully,

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Speaker 1: you can see back into again a densely wooded area.

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Speaker 1: Finally it had rained, the rain stopped. He called them again.

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Speaker 1: They finally came out, and it was the remains of

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Speaker 1: this little beautiful girl, Kelly Anthony, who many people to

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Speaker 1: this day believe was murdered by her mother. Taught mom

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Speaker 1: Casey Anthony. And he was demonized. He was demonized when

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Speaker 1: he's the one that did a good deed and I

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Speaker 1: believe that's what happened here. But since we've got nothing,

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Speaker 1: that's the launching spot for cops to talk to. This

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Speaker 1: guy that finds the ba right and there's something else

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Speaker 1: I'd like to point out, with regard to the suitcase

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Speaker 1: and where it was found, you can do a little

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Speaker 1: bit of criminal profiling from the person who actually did

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Speaker 1: leave it there. There was a handle that you can

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Speaker 1: retract or you can put it down. Was that handle

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Speaker 1: retracted or left extended? Was it just tossed away or

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Speaker 1: was that suit case placed down flat and face up?

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Speaker 1: Was it hidden or left out to be found? This

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Speaker 1: tells me about the person and whether or not they

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Speaker 1: cared enough for this little boy to place it down,

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Speaker 1: which means they may have spent maybe a moment there,

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Speaker 1: Maybe they left something of themselves behind before they walked away,

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Speaker 1: So it may be worth another search of that area.

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Speaker 1: Looking at the suitcase where it was found, how it

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Speaker 1: was found, can tell you a little bit about the

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Speaker 1: person who did leave it there. You know. Thinking about

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Speaker 1: the suitcase as well, I'd like to find out was

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Speaker 1: it mean was it bought specifically for this purpose? If

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Speaker 1: it was, that tells me the little boy been in Vegas,

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Speaker 1: or at least in the area of Vegas, Because I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can go to the airport, you can go to

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Speaker 1: a lot of places surrounding Vegas, and you can find

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Speaker 1: that type of Las Vegas, you know, paraphernalia, touristy stuff

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Speaker 1: all over the state. So I'm wondering about that Crime

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace joining me right now, in addition

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Speaker 1: to Max Lewis Fox fifty nine, doctor Michelle Duprie, medical

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Speaker 1: examiner Karen Smith, forensics expert Katherine marsh Is with us

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Speaker 1: from the Special Victims Liaison joining us from Charles County,

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Speaker 1: co founder of Right Response Consulting, and she's the star

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Speaker 1: of the No Gray Zone podcast. Catherine jump in, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of information from the suitcase

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Speaker 1: and the location, but for me, it's most important the

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Speaker 1: fact that there's been no discussion about this child. Nobody's

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Speaker 1: talking about there's been a missing child. I want to know,

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Speaker 1: how do we have a child that's been was discovered

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Speaker 1: over a month ago. Nobody's reported a missing We don't

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Speaker 1: have any records from a school reporting a young child

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Speaker 1: missing or a daycare. Was this child ever in the

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Speaker 1: public domain? Those are all factors that I would want

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Speaker 1: to know, because when we're talking about where the suitcase

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Speaker 1: was located, you know, you're absolutely correct, You're absolutely correct.

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Speaker 1: Nothing has indicated a child matching this description. Is missing,

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Speaker 1: and I want to remind everybody about a case. Call

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Speaker 1: little Miss Nobody, take us an our cut one. This

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Speaker 1: is justin lump Fox ten, Phoenix, a little girl between

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Speaker 1: three and five years old found partially buried in the

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Speaker 1: desert back in nineteen sixty. The case still haunts the

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Speaker 1: Yavapine County Sheriff's office. Who is this little girl in

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Speaker 1: the sketch dubbed little Miss Nobody. Her partially buried remains

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Speaker 1: found at Sandwash Creek in Congress, Arizona, on July thirty first,

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty. Investigators believe her remains had been burned one

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Speaker 1: to two weeks before she was discovered. The cause of

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Speaker 1: death undetermined yet suspicious, and it was ruled a homicide

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Speaker 1: in that case, goes On, is certainly not the first

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Speaker 1: time we have encountered an unidentified child dead. What do

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Speaker 1: we know about this case? We're talking about the suitcase now.

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Speaker 1: Karen Smith, joining us from Shattered Soul's podcast, was describing

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Speaker 1: some emotional attachment the killer or the person that disposed

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Speaker 1: of the body. That person may have had to the child.

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Speaker 1: You know what, sorry, Karen, don't care. I only care

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Speaker 1: to the extent it could tell me who left this

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Speaker 1: child there? So I care about I don't care about

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Speaker 1: their emotions because they're going to write and help. Number one.

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in the forensic aspect. Are there any fingerprints

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Speaker 1: or is there any fiber If this was a used suitcase,

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Speaker 1: maybe there's fiber or DNA of some sort in there

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Speaker 1: that can help me track back to the adult that

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Speaker 1: left this. We believe five year old little boy folded

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Speaker 1: up in a suitcase like he was an old pair

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Speaker 1: of pajamas. Take a listen now to our cut number two.

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Speaker 1: This is Dakota Sherik at w d RB right now

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Speaker 1: in d Nast. Please isn't giving too many details on

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Speaker 1: this case, but investigators do believe that somebody out there

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Speaker 1: knows something that can help them figure out who this

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Speaker 1: child was. We are looking for the public's help and

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Speaker 1: finding out the name of this child, this little boy

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Speaker 1: who deserves answers. He deserves our help. Urgent Carrie Holes

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Speaker 1: said Saturday night, a mushroom hunter in the woods in

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Speaker 1: rural Washington County discovered the body of a young boy.

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Speaker 1: He noticed something and went to investigate, and that's what

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Speaker 1: he found so very disturbing, very shocking, very traumatic event,

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Speaker 1: very sad event, not just for the person who located it,

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Speaker 1: but the officers and are involved also. Holes said the

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Speaker 1: boy is likely between five and eight years old. He's

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Speaker 1: about four feet tall, with a slim build and short haircut.

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Speaker 1: Investigators believe the boy died within the last week. State

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Speaker 1: police say they're not releasing details about where the boy

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Speaker 1: was found or what he was wearing to protect their investigation.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how much it's protecting the investigation, but okay,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Alan Blockey joining US clinical forensic psychologist, joining us

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Speaker 1: out of Birmingham, specializing in criminal and child cases. He

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Speaker 1: is Professor, University Alabama, Birmingham. Doctor Blockee, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us now. Karen L. Smith was describing a

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Speaker 1: potential emotional attachment to the boy by the person who

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Speaker 1: left the body there. The only reason I'm remotely interested

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Speaker 1: in emotional attachments to this child that was so horribly

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Speaker 1: abandoned is can it be a clue to tell me

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Speaker 1: who did this? But I'm wondering, Doctor Blockey, who would

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Speaker 1: leave their child like that? Again? Let me harken back

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Speaker 1: to top mom Casey Anthony, and one of her many

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Speaker 1: and varied defenses was that little Kelly died in a

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Speaker 1: swimming pool unattended, and that her grandfather, George Anthony, fished

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Speaker 1: her out. And then, as opposed to calling nine one one,

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Speaker 1: this former cop just decided that he would put in

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Speaker 1: a trash bag and thrower in the woods. Okay, that

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Speaker 1: didn't happen. George Anthony did not do that. If this

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Speaker 1: child had died, naturally, wouldn't the guardian the parent call

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Speaker 1: nine one one. Why would you put your child in

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Speaker 1: a suitcase and leave it in the woods unless there

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Speaker 1: was a nefarious aspect to the death. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're right, it certainly sounds like it's a nefarious kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. Of course, what this child Donald died from

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Speaker 1: is going to be critical. I guess you could say

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Speaker 1: the parents panicked. I mean, maybe that's the best spend

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Speaker 1: you can put on. At best, they panicked, But it

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Speaker 1: certainly makes no sense. It's certainly throwing out the trash.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, when you said that, that just hurt me.

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Speaker 1: And you're right to them, it was like throwing out

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Speaker 1: the trash. I'm going to follow up on what doctor

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Speaker 1: Alan Black he just told us. But speaking CD, take

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Speaker 1: a listen to Demi Johnson WISHTV. State police say the

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Speaker 1: young child was around five years old based on a

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Speaker 1: dental examination. Hole says, Unfortunately, the boy's autopsy did not

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Speaker 1: give police the clarity they were hoping for, but it

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Speaker 1: does tell them the boy had been in someone's recent care.

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Speaker 1: The autopsy did confirmed that we're talking about a death

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Speaker 1: probably within the past week. Now. We're not talking about

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Speaker 1: skeletal remains or anything like that. You know, the fact

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Speaker 1: that the autopsy doesn't reveal any cause of death, and

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Speaker 1: the fact that it's only you know, days old since

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Speaker 1: that horrific event occurred says a lot. You know, as

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Speaker 1: far as what we found. Obviously somebody cared for him.

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Speaker 1: That whoever that is isn't coming forward for whatever reason.

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Speaker 1: There's more than one reason that could be. State police

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Speaker 1: tell me they've receiemed about five hundred calls on the case,

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Speaker 1: but they want to remind people to not call them

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Speaker 1: about children already listed as missing around the country. They're

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Speaker 1: already investigating those cases. To doctor Michelle dupre joining us,

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Speaker 1: we typically hear about an identification made through DNA or

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Speaker 1: fingerprints on children. You don't have fingerprints. I don't know

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Speaker 1: why they still do footprints at the hospital as opposed

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Speaker 1: to fingerprints, but they do so there's no way to

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Speaker 1: track the child through fingerprints. Here we hear a dental exam. Now,

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Speaker 1: while it's not identifying who the child is, what's the

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Speaker 1: point of the dental exam? Well, Nancy, we'll do a

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Speaker 1: dental exam so that if and when a suspective childless,

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Speaker 1: someone might suspay that this child is, then we can

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Speaker 1: compare general records with that person. But without a comparison,

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Speaker 1: the denteral exam is really useless. We're hoping to gain

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Speaker 1: a comparison with some child found or reporting missing in

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Speaker 1: the future. Doctor du print, Why don't hospitals do fingerprints

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Speaker 1: as opposed to a footprint? Nancy, I do not know.

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Speaker 1: I think that's an excellent thing to do, as well

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Speaker 1: as do DNA. I think they should do DNA and fingerprints. Now,

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Speaker 1: fingerprints never changed during our home lifetime, and no two

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Speaker 1: fingerprints are the same exactly. So if you have an

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Speaker 1: adult print, if you find an adult, can the adult

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Speaker 1: fingerprint be matched with child fingerprints? Oftentimes, of course it's

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Speaker 1: going to be larger, But there are certain distinguishing characteristics

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Speaker 1: we call them points that very well would be in

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Speaker 1: the child finger print as well as in the adult fingerprints.

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Speaker 1: You know, doctor Duprie, let me ask you this as well.

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Speaker 1: We just heard from police sources that the child had

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Speaker 1: only been in the suitcase for a few days. How

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Speaker 1: can you tell that, Nancy. We can tell that by

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Speaker 1: the state of the body, the amount of decomposition or not,

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Speaker 1: the way that that body decomposes in that type of atmosphere,

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Speaker 1: because it was left outside, because it was in a suitcase,

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Speaker 1: because it is warm weather, decomposition is going to happen faster.

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Speaker 1: So we take all of those things into account when

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Speaker 1: we determine the time of death. Joining me, Max Lewis,

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Speaker 1: reporter of Fox fifty nine out of Indianapolis. Max, again,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You heard doctor Michelle

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Speaker 1: Duprie respond to my question by mentioning the weather. What

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Speaker 1: is the weather in that area at this time of

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Speaker 1: the year. It still would have probably been cool. I

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Speaker 1: would say the average high in a day would be

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Speaker 1: fifty degrees, maybe into the low sixties, and overnight it

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Speaker 1: could you get down into the high thirties and possibly

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Speaker 1: into even the freezing temperatures. We might have been a

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Speaker 1: little bit out of freezing range at that point. But

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Speaker 1: I think that could you know, affect things. I'll let

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Speaker 1: the experts speak to that as far as temperature wise,

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Speaker 1: right right, Doctor Michelle Dupray. Does that support or distract

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Speaker 1: from your theory? It actually supports it because the body

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Speaker 1: would have been in a closed container, which means it's

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Speaker 1: probably going to be protected somewhat from the environment, and

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Speaker 1: the fact that it doesn't get down too terribly low

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Speaker 1: is still going to make that sort of a warm

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Speaker 1: weather environment. So yes, it's it's still accurate. You know.

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Speaker 1: Mix lewis joining me from Fox fifty nine Indian Apples.

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Speaker 1: So I'm very surprised that the police are not releasing

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Speaker 1: the outfit the little boy was wearing. And I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you why, because when the twins were this age, I

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Speaker 1: had special T shirts for them, a little out matching

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Speaker 1: out fitz Lucy at that time still always wore a

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Speaker 1: bow before she broke my heart and quit wearing those

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Speaker 1: I always had. John David was obsessed with dinosaurs and

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Speaker 1: t Shue trains. A lot of his and cars, a

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Speaker 1: lot of his clothing had that emblazoned on the front.

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Speaker 1: Any idea why they're keeping that a secret? Max Lewis,

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Speaker 1: So what they've told us is that they are keeping

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Speaker 1: the boys clothes, they're keeping the book, not releasing the

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Speaker 1: voice close because they don't want to disrupt or compromise

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Speaker 1: the integrity of the investigation. I don't know what I'm

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Speaker 1: not a police officer. I don't know why police do

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Speaker 1: what they do. But like you said, it seems like

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Speaker 1: that would be really helpful in identifying this boy. But

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Speaker 1: I'll leave it to them to decide. You're right, Max Lewis,

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Speaker 1: Karen Smith. There are reasons sometimes at police told peculiar

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Speaker 1: facts in a case that only the killer would know.

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Speaker 1: So when they catch the killer, if and when he

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Speaker 1: or she gives a statement, you match it up to

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Speaker 1: what has been withheld from the public to see if

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Speaker 1: it's really the killer or if it's just a nut

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Speaker 1: making a false confession. However, what we need to identify

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Speaker 1: this child, this little boy, there's just like put in

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Speaker 1: a suitcase and like I said, left like an old

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Speaker 1: pair of pajamas out in a suitcase right in the woods.

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Speaker 1: I don't see how this is really helping them to

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Speaker 1: withhold that evidence. Well, yeah, I'm on the fence with it,

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Speaker 1: and I think the reason that they're doing it is

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Speaker 1: they don't want an influx of false leads taking the

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Speaker 1: investigators off the track. But if the public doesn't know

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Speaker 1: what kind of clothes this child was wearing, it makes

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Speaker 1: it difficult for the public to help. So it's kind

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Speaker 1: of a catch. Twenty two Nancy, a little boy just

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Speaker 1: five years old, left dead in a suitcase out in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the woods halfway between Indianapolis and Louisville

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Speaker 1: by a mushroom hunter that seemingly and I'll go out

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Speaker 1: on a limb, is not involved. He's actually a good

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Speaker 1: samaritan that calls in the discovery. When I heard his

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Speaker 1: voice describing what he found, I thought immediately he was

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Speaker 1: not involved. So what do we know? Take a listen

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Speaker 1: now to Tom Lalley, whas eleven, a boy found dead

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Speaker 1: in southern Indiana, remains nameless. His story and the suit

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Speaker 1: case he was found in have gained national attention, hundreds

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Speaker 1: of tips submitted, and still no answers except for one.

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Speaker 1: We now know how the boy died. At this time,

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Speaker 1: there's no evidence that leads investigators to believe that he

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Speaker 1: was alive when he went into the suit case. Sergeant

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Speaker 1: Carrie Hooles says investigators got the autopsy and toxicology reports

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Speaker 1: on May twentieth. Seven days later, they share this unnamed

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Speaker 1: boy died from an electrolyte imbalance, most likely due to

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Speaker 1: gastro enteritis, which in common Layman's term would be vomiting

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Speaker 1: and diarrhea, and that resulted in dehydration fetal dehydration, and

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Speaker 1: he says the toxicology rapport found nothing significant. Straight out

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Speaker 1: to you, doctor Michelle Dupree, translate please, Nancy, gastro enter iris.

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Speaker 1: Enteritis is a viral infection, mostly commonly caused stomach flue.

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Speaker 1: And the problem with this is that it does cause

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Speaker 1: vomiting and diarrhea. And the problem with that is that

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Speaker 1: you use up electrolytes, you get rid of those. And

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Speaker 1: electrolytes are very narrowly balanced in our system. They control

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Speaker 1: things like even our heart rate, our blood pressure. So

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Speaker 1: when those are depleted from nausea and vomiting and diarrhea,

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Speaker 1: then we may go into a cardiacorythea, we may become dehydrated,

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Speaker 1: and then that causes that cardiacorythm okay, let's follow this through.

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Speaker 1: Katherine Mars joining me Special Victims Liaison for the State

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Speaker 1: Attorney's office there in Charles County. Catherine, again, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. So let's go with what we know.

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Speaker 1: The cod is as vomiting and diarrhea gastro enteritis. What

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Speaker 1: does that tell you about who left this boy his

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Speaker 1: body folded up in a suitcase. It says welcome to

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Speaker 1: the fabulous Las Vegas on the front of it. Well,

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Speaker 1: it tells me that I need to start looking at

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Speaker 1: neglect of the child, because if the child was this ill,

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Speaker 1: that the child died from the electrolyte deficiency or dehydration,

428
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: that means he wasn't getting proper care while he wasn't

429
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: while he was sick, or he wasn't taken to a doctor,

430
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: he wasn't being given fluids by his caregivers. So that

431
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: tells me that there is an outside component to his

432
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: death that I need to look at as well. It

433
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: also tells me, Katherine Morris, that this may have been

434
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: someone that was afraid that the boy died on their

435
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: watch and that they would go to jail. Now, who

436
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: would that be? A mom or dad that had had

437
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: trouble with defacts from my family Shoulder's services before, some

438
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: that they have had a criminal history or just a

439
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: neglectful parent. That feels they'd be the one that got

440
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 1: in trouble. Of course they would be. They let this

441
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: boy die. A five year old little boy. You couldn't

442
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: have been any guitar than what Jackie three feet or so?

443
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: Five years old. Now, my question, Max lewis the Fox

444
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: fifty nine. Have police drawn and released a composite sketch

445
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 1: of the boy? No, Nancy, they haven't. That's another thing

446
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: that people have been asking about. You know, at least

447
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: give us something more because clearly what they've released so

448
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: far is not working. It's not helped identify this boy.

449
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 1: And they're still basically went back at the drawing board.

450
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: And so that's a lot of what a lot of

451
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: people are asking. But they haven't done it. They again

452
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: are citing compromising the investigation. I'll leave that to the

453
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: expert to decide whether or not that is true or not,

454
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: but we'll see. Okay, that's total bs. Look, I know,

455
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: Max Lewis, it's not your message. You're just the messenger.

456
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: But step one is identifying the boy. We need a

457
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: composite sketch. Take a listen to our cut twelve. This

458
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 1: is todd aaleh A s As this search continues, we

459
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: know police are able to release a composite or photo

460
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: of the boy and have chosen not to the description

461
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: of this boy could apply to so many people. Why

462
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: not release a rendering or what kind of closed the

463
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: child was wear? Right? And that's been discussed, But again,

464
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 1: the main thing is if somebody knows of a child

465
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: who fits the description that's missing, they need to give

466
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: the call. Having a picture shouldn't make somebody all of

467
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: a sudden recall, oh that child if they know a

468
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: child who's missing. But what if they wouldn't know the

469
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: child is missing, but they could recognize the child. Well. Again,

470
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: again there's many different reasons. But sometimes you know, diagrams, drawings,

471
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: Sometimes those renderings can lead to misconceptions as well. So

472
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: it can open up at Pandora's box of people saying, well,

473
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,479
Speaker 1: I thought it was this child when possibly not, so

474
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: at this time they fill us in the best interests

475
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: of the case, not to do that. Two. Karen L.

476
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: Smith joining me, forensics expert, joining side of LA. This

477
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: isn't exactly right. A composite, as we are calling it,

478
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: is typically made when you can't get a full facial Okay, Here,

479
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: like a photograph, you make it based on an or

480
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: several eyewitnesses. Here we have the boy. His body is

481
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: still intact. It's not like a drawing it's going to

482
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: be that far off from the child. In fact, they

483
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: may have been able to actually take a picture of

484
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: the child and enhance it to make it look as

485
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: if it were in life. I don't get how they're saying, Oh,

486
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: a composite would open up a Pandora's box of false leads.

487
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: Hey they need something. Yeah, I don't under stand that

488
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,719
Speaker 1: at all. A composite sketch or a composite drawing can

489
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: lead to people. You know. Yes, you may not say

490
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: yes I know this missing boy, but you may say,

491
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: you know, I saw this little boy with so and so.

492
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: It looks familiar to me. None of that makes sense.

493
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: And you know the clothing I said I was on

494
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,479
Speaker 1: the fence. The composite drawing. I don't understand that at all.

495
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: M Okay, guys, take a listen now to our friend

496
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: Katrina and Nickel at w d RB, just off a

497
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: rural road in Washington County. One answer can be added

498
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: to a long list of questions that remain in the

499
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: cause of death of the young male as electrolyte imbalance.

500
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: According to IP, the autopsy results say vomiting and diarrhea

501
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: likely resulted in severe dehydration. It's a very odd, tragic case.

502
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: Medical director for Norton Children's Hospital, Mark McDonald explains that

503
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: a death related to electrolyte imbalance leads to organ slowly

504
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,479
Speaker 1: shutting down. You don't really know what's going on. You don't,

505
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: you're delirious, and you eventually become unconscious and to die

506
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: from something likes of your dehydration is uncommon for a

507
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: young child, who police believe is a five year old

508
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: boy and can take days. The only circumstance I would

509
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: think that a younger child could become so dehydrated they

510
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: passed away would be if they were really by themselves.

511
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: You know, if they were left alone, it didn't have

512
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: the means to help themselves or have someone around to

513
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: help them. That is exactly what you were saying, Katherine

514
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: Marsh Catherine Special Victims Liaison. This child was horribly neglected

515
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 1: and you just heard the cop hit the nail on

516
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: the head. The child was alone and died as one

517
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: organ after the next shut down that's correct, and it's

518
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: the heartbreaking thing, especially when you heard him say this

519
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: kind of death would have taken days. So we had

520
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: a child who suffered for days, and then after that

521
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: suffering was pulled it up, put in a suitcase and

522
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: disposed on the side of the road. Time stories with

523
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, doctor Michelle Duprey joining me. What would this

524
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: child have gone through as each organ shut down, massive

525
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: diarrhea so weak you probably couldn't even get up and

526
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom, vomiting all alone, Nancy. He would

527
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: have obviously been very tired, probably had a fever, very

528
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: sore muscles, abdominal pain again, the diarrhea, dehydration, bloody stools.

529
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: He would have basically become unconscious and then succumbed to death. Guys,

530
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: I'm looking in his suitcase, and if you look at

531
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: it very carefully, it's abundantly clear this is not something

532
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: that was just bought for this purpose. I've been examining

533
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: it very closely. The wheels are old and worn out,

534
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: that the suitcase therefore is old and worn out. But

535
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,959
Speaker 1: isn't it true? Karen Smith forensi's expert that the brand

536
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: of suitcase can be identified and it can be figured

537
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: out where it was sold. Isn't that true? Yes, it

538
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: is absolutely. You can find out the manufacturers and you

539
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: can find out the stores where it is sold. Now

540
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: that's kind of like finding a needle in a haystack,

541
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: but it is a lead that needs to be followed.

542
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: And Nancy, I'd just like to say this, finding the

543
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: identity of this boy is paramount. I suggest taking the

544
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: victim's DNA from his autosity and putting it into public

545
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: genealogical and ancestral DNA databases to see if any distant

546
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: relatives have submitted their DNA to those public records. Try

547
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: to find a partial matching work back from there. As

548
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 1: little boys DNA is not going to be in CODEUS,

549
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: the combined DNA index system that's used for criminal cases,

550
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,720
Speaker 1: but there may be a lead in those ancestral databases.

551
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: It'll take time, but it's worth a shot. We have

552
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: to find out his identity. It's called genetic genealogy. And

553
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: while you people will often say, well don't you have

554
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: a fingerprint or don't you have DNA from the victim? Well, yes,

555
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: that's not that hard to get. But then the question

556
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: is who you're going to match it too. Example, say

557
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: in a rape case they're semen. You can get the

558
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: DNA from the semen, but you've got to figure out

559
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: whose is it. And that is where databases DNA databases

560
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: come into play. If the perp as a criminal history

561
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: and has given his or her DNA or their fingerprints,

562
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: then you can match up. Otherwise the millions and millions

563
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: of people that could be the part. You have to

564
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: have something to match it too. So in this case,

565
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: you would take the child's DNA and do an ancestral

566
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: DNA match genetic genealogy, and sometimes you have to go

567
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: way back, say the eighteen hundreds, and you get a

568
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: hit to somebody's great great great great great grandfather. Then

569
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 1: you follow it down, follow it down all the way

570
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: down to the here and now the present. Who are

571
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: the relatives here and now who were in the area

572
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: who would have had a child this age. That's how

573
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: you do it. Now there's the other factor. What if

574
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: this child was in foster care and was not with

575
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 1: his genetic parents. Well, guess what, you can still find

576
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: the parents and then find who had the child in

577
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: foster care. I want to go back to doctor Alan

578
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: Blockkey clinical forensic psychologists joining us out of Birmingham Doctor

579
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: Block Giggin, thank you for being with us. I want

580
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: to analyze not only he would put a child like

581
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: top mom casey Anthony did put a child in a

582
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: plastic bag and throw it in the woods, but who

583
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: similarly would put their child's dead body in this suitcase

584
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: and leave it in the woods. And who would stand

585
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: by and let their child vomit and have diarrhea to

586
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: the point the child dies as the organs shut down.

587
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: A child in intense pain. You know, a profoundly neglectful parent,

588
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: obviously you know, and why they're neglectful. There can be

589
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: many reasons, substance abuse, mental illness, etc. Etc. But the

590
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: profoundness is so striking here and then again, like I

591
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: said earlier, they put the boy in a suitcase and

592
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: put her like The mindset of whoever did this is

593
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: cold and calculated and cruel a five year old little boy.

594
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: Think of your child at that young age. Take a

595
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: listen to our Frank Katrina Nickel at the b DRM

596
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: ISP does believe the boy was already dead when put

597
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: in the suitcase, and previously said the boy was likely

598
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: found within about a week from dying. He appeared to

599
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: be at least somewhat cared for, so that's again not

600
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: what you expect. Autopsy results also revealed the boy was

601
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: an average height and wait for a five year old,

602
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: and a toxicology report came back negative. As far as

603
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 1: just who this boy is, where he's from, who left

604
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: him in the suitcase, it's all a mystery of the

605
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: documented children that are missing on the Missing Children's list

606
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: across the country. At this point, there's no match on

607
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: any child that's list as missing. ISP will not release

608
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: a rendering or drawing of the boy at this time.

609
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: Sometimes those renderings can lead to misconceptions as well. They

610
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: fill us in the best interests of the case not

611
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: to do that, police said. Detectives on the case are

612
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: utilizing any information they have with all available technology. You know,

613
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: we've had many cases when we throw this out to

614
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: Katherine marsh, many cases where we have tried to identify

615
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: a child. Sometimes these cases go cold and it's decades

616
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: later that the child is identified and there's no way

617
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: to bring the killer to justice. What do you advise, Catherine,

618
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: so this case doesn't go cold. I think I'd start

619
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: with what so many people on this panel have said,

620
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: I think it's imperative to get the composite sketch or

621
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: the picture of this young victim out there. I think

622
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: we need to know what he looks like, because then

623
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 1: we can start moving forward with identifying him and building

624
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: the blocks of the last moments of his life or

625
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: the last time somebody saw him. What we know is

626
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: in six weeks, nobody's reported a child missing to the

627
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 1: police that fit his description. So it's not going to

628
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: come from the caregivers. It needs to come from people

629
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: in the community. We need to get what he looks

630
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: like out You know, that's really interesting. Remember Karen Smith

631
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: the House of Horrors in California, that Turpin parents seems

632
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: treated their children so horribly. They had many children. Not

633
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: one neighbor reported never seeing the children. Nobody said a thing,

634
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: So I doubt very seriously that neighbors or anybody in

635
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: the community is going to come forward. What's our best

636
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: chance at this point? I have two suggestions. One would

637
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: be to consider using what's called wet vacuum technology, like

638
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: an m VAC. These can extract really minute samples of

639
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: DNA that might not be recoverable by standard methods like

640
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: swab or taping. These wet vacuums spray a buffer onto

641
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: the substrate and then pull everything out into a bottle.

642
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: This can find other sources of DNA that are not

643
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: the victims, so that may be a lead another one,

644
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 1: and this is a little bit of a wide net.

645
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: But there may be spores or pollen or other fauna

646
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: present on his clothes or in that suitcase that are

647
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: foreign to the area where he was found. That can

648
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: give investigators an area of focus. So they might want

649
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: to contact a forenic botanist to consult on microscopic analysis

650
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: of that clothing to see if there's any unusual plant

651
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: material from a specific state or region or even other country. Nancy,

652
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: we don't know where this little boy is from. He

653
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: may not be from the United States, which may be

654
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 1: why the person who left him there didn't consult a doctor.

655
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: I'm not giving an excuse. It's disgusting, but you know,

656
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: I'm just going to go out on a limb and

657
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: say he was from the US. Okay, someone that lived

658
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: in or had visited Vegas, someone that was familiar with

659
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: this area and new to dump the body there. I

660
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: would also be interested in the clothing where it came

661
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: from what store, what mall in this country to give

662
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 1: me an idea of where the purp lives as well

663
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: as did the boy have on shoes? Because on those

664
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: shoes would be a wealth of forensic evidence. Agreed Tipline

665
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,919
Speaker 1: eight one two two four, eight four three seven four

666
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: or toll three eight hundred eight seven two sixty seven

667
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: forty three. We wait as justice and falls Nancy Grace

668
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 1: Crimes Story, signing off goodbye friend,