WEBVTT - Sex

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to Deeply Human, the show about why

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<v Speaker 1>you do what you do. It's general admission, so sit

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere you like, but if you sit on top of

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<v Speaker 1>someone else, you must have their express consent. I am

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<v Speaker 1>your host, DSSA, and I've got an unusually sexy program

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<v Speaker 1>queued up this time around, So if you are in

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<v Speaker 1>the company of pint sized listeners who don't yet know

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<v Speaker 1>how they got made, this program might let the reproductive

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<v Speaker 1>cat out of the bag. Today we're tackling the question

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<v Speaker 1>why do you have sex all the time? Now, those

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<v Speaker 1>of you who are seated alone maybe thinking, lady, you

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<v Speaker 1>are mistaken because I am definitely not having sex all

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<v Speaker 1>the time. And those of you sitting with the date

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<v Speaker 1>might be thinking that's obvious. We have sex because it

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<v Speaker 1>feels good. But I assure you that is only half

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<v Speaker 1>the story. You are in for an evening of evolution,

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<v Speaker 1>wonder and Victorian perversions. We're about to find find out

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<v Speaker 1>why humans have sex at times that our fellow mammals don't.

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<v Speaker 1>Let the show begin. My name is Steve Gangstead. I

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<v Speaker 1>am a professor of psychology at the University in New Mexico,

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<v Speaker 1>and I study sex. I study sexual interests. I study

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<v Speaker 1>hormone influences on sex. Perfect, I'm interested in sex. Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>To understand the quirks of human sex, we first need

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<v Speaker 1>to know how it works for most mammals. Here's Steve

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<v Speaker 1>giving us the lay of the land. Okay, let's just

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<v Speaker 1>call it like it is. Yes, a show about sex

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<v Speaker 1>is going to have a lot of unintentional dad puns.

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<v Speaker 1>There will be double and triple entendres. But I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>gonna ask that we call on our better angels and

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<v Speaker 1>take the high road. Okay, Steve, please tell us about

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<v Speaker 1>mammal sex. So, for most female ammalst it's two or

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<v Speaker 1>three days out of a cycle that they have sex,

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<v Speaker 1>and otherwise they're not willing to have sex with males

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<v Speaker 1>that initiated, and they're really not that attractive to males either.

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<v Speaker 1>Males seem to know. And why would most mammals schedule

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<v Speaker 1>their whole sex life into just a couple of days

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<v Speaker 1>of the cycle. Well, sex takes time and energy and

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<v Speaker 1>even risks injury. Most female mammals are only into it

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<v Speaker 1>during the fertile phase. But how do the males know

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<v Speaker 1>when those days are? Well? In? In some species, like

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<v Speaker 1>particularly some of our close relatives in the primate order,

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<v Speaker 1>females have sexual swellings. They have these swellings on their

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<v Speaker 1>rumps that to mess, that is, they grow, they swell

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<v Speaker 1>when females are sexually active. That said smell typically trumps

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<v Speaker 1>that as a cue. The females of most mammal species

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<v Speaker 1>are out there clearly signaling when they're conceptive, when they're

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<v Speaker 1>in the fertile phase. They're giving big, obvious cues and

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<v Speaker 1>their scent or appearance. The natural question then becomes can

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<v Speaker 1>human dudes tell when lady humans are fertile? There are

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<v Speaker 1>these sort of coquil called a stinky T shirt studies

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<v Speaker 1>where women have worn T shirts for a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>nights and they're either conceptive or not conceptive, And men

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<v Speaker 1>on average do prefer the scent of conceptive females, but

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<v Speaker 1>they're not that good. They're telling you mean or they're

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<v Speaker 1>getting a very close up with you know, they're smelling

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<v Speaker 1>a T shirt that's been worn for a couple of days.

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<v Speaker 1>So in normal just interaction now, they're not very good.

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<v Speaker 1>Even women can't sense exactly when we're conceptive, though some

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<v Speaker 1>women can feel the moment of ovulation. The biological details

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<v Speaker 1>of our menstral cycles are hidden even from us. That's

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<v Speaker 1>why women trying to get pregnant make color code their

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<v Speaker 1>calendars or download apps like Fertility friend. The typical term

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<v Speaker 1>that's used with regard to humans as that we have

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<v Speaker 1>so called concealed ovulation. So there's not really any real

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<v Speaker 1>cues of when women are ovulating, which is weird when

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<v Speaker 1>you think about it. We're ignorant to one of the

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<v Speaker 1>most basic bodily functions. There might be some very little cues,

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<v Speaker 1>but for the most part, where a black box. This

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<v Speaker 1>concealed ovulation might help explain why humans are game to

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<v Speaker 1>have sex at any time in a woman's cycle. What

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<v Speaker 1>you have is what has been termed extended sexuality. Sounds funky,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's the extension part is really just referring to

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that it's extended beyond that conceptive period, so

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<v Speaker 1>there's non conceptive sex. There are some mammals who have

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<v Speaker 1>extended sexuality, and in fact most primates actually have some

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<v Speaker 1>period of extended sexuality. Interestingly, but as opposed to humans,

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<v Speaker 1>usually in primates it's a few days. Possibly to the

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<v Speaker 1>best of our knowledge. Are we the most extended extended sexuality?

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<v Speaker 1>You can't get anymore. There might be a species or

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<v Speaker 1>two that ties us, but we are as extended as

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<v Speaker 1>you can get. So you really are having sex all

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<v Speaker 1>the time. Maybe not relative to your friends or your

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<v Speaker 1>ex guy, and is maddeningly likable new girlfriend. But compared

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<v Speaker 1>to wild mammals who have never heard of Netflix and

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<v Speaker 1>might not get to chill, you are Humans have a

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<v Speaker 1>lot more sex during phases of the cycle where pregnancy

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<v Speaker 1>isn't a possibility. It's worth noting that most mammals have

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<v Speaker 1>different reproductive cycles than we do. Most don't get periods,

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<v Speaker 1>and sometimes ovulation is even induced by the mail, so

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<v Speaker 1>the systems are different. But still we're the ones doing

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<v Speaker 1>it all over the calendar. We're the ones with concealed

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<v Speaker 1>ovulation and extended sexuality. But of course none of that

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<v Speaker 1>goes through your mind as making eyes at a special someone.

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<v Speaker 1>Evolution doesn't have to shape your thoughts to shape your behavior.

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<v Speaker 1>Most of us are driven to have sex just because

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<v Speaker 1>it feels good. And with that, let's welcome Dr David

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<v Speaker 1>Puts to stage from the Department of Anthropology at Penn State.

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<v Speaker 1>Both David and his wife are sex researchers. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>we've published on orgasm together. So funny enough, I met

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<v Speaker 1>her at a sex conference and she had just presented

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<v Speaker 1>a paper on the genetics of the female orgasm. So

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<v Speaker 1>after her talk we started talking about the topic and

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<v Speaker 1>the science and YadA YadA, we have three kids. One

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<v Speaker 1>of David's specialties is the female orgasm, which actually poses

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<v Speaker 1>something of a mystery for academics. Nobody really knows what

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<v Speaker 1>women's orgasm is for, and there's a lot of debate

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<v Speaker 1>about whether it's for anything at all, whether it might

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<v Speaker 1>just be a nonfunctional byproduct, and one suggestion is that

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<v Speaker 1>it's a by aroductive orgasm in men, and that really

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<v Speaker 1>in men, that's where the adaptation lies. Um, I think,

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<v Speaker 1>just for a second, because I think too listeners who

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<v Speaker 1>who aren't looking at this through an evolutionary lens, the

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<v Speaker 1>idea that like, we don't know what a female orgasm

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<v Speaker 1>is for, I think a lot of hands in the air, like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so you have to ask what it's for. Then you're

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<v Speaker 1>not doing it right. Have you ever seen a female orgasm?

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<v Speaker 1>When scientists say they don't know what it's for, they

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<v Speaker 1>mean they're not sure how it might help us to

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<v Speaker 1>survive and pass on our genes. Like, how could orgasms

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<v Speaker 1>increase a person's likelihood of having kids and grandkids? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>the dude's orgasm helps deliver sperm to where it has

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<v Speaker 1>to go, so okay, we can see how that helps

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<v Speaker 1>in procreation. Some scientists think female orgasms don't have any

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<v Speaker 1>similar purpose. They just developed as a happy accident. The

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<v Speaker 1>common analogy that's used as male nipples that you can

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<v Speaker 1>have an adaptation in one sex, So you've got a

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<v Speaker 1>functional trait in one sex that just some vestiges of

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<v Speaker 1>it occur in the other sex. I think some dudes

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<v Speaker 1>might be thinking, no, dude, my nipples are awesome, Like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>they are not functionless brov. So yeah, they hold up

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<v Speaker 1>my nipple ring. Yeah. So by function and evolutionary biologist

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<v Speaker 1>means that there was some way in which it contributed

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<v Speaker 1>to reproductive success ancestral e. Either by increasing survival or

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<v Speaker 1>by increasing you know, mating success or you know survival

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<v Speaker 1>of offspring or something like that. You could use your

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<v Speaker 1>nipples for whatever you want, um, but that doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 1>that they evolved for that purpose. But there's another camp

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<v Speaker 1>that think female orgasms do serve a purpose of their own.

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<v Speaker 1>Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the up suck theory.

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<v Speaker 1>The idea here is that the contractions of the female

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<v Speaker 1>orgasm actually draw semen into the female reproductive tract, where

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<v Speaker 1>it has a better chance of for realizing an egg.

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<v Speaker 1>To test this idea, researchers of dosed women with oxytocin,

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<v Speaker 1>a hormone that triggers the muscle contractions during orgasm two

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<v Speaker 1>different labs found that women who went into the lab

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<v Speaker 1>those that were treated with oxytocin that that caused the

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<v Speaker 1>transport of a fluid the same viscosity of seemen up

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<v Speaker 1>into the overducts, and the closer the women were to ovulation,

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<v Speaker 1>the more of that transport was just into the oviduct

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<v Speaker 1>where the egg was coming down. So is there essentially

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<v Speaker 1>an argument to be made that if a woman orgasms

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<v Speaker 1>with a partner, she's more likely to be impregnated by

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<v Speaker 1>him then when she has sex where she does not organs. Yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>but we don't really know that it's clearly not necessary, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, plenty of women have kids that have never

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<v Speaker 1>had an orgasm. The up stuck theory is still hotly debated.

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<v Speaker 1>Other experiments have yielded results that don't support the idea.

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<v Speaker 1>And so far no one's run a big study to

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<v Speaker 1>find out if women's orgasms during actual sex are more

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<v Speaker 1>likely to lead to a pregnancy in the real world.

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<v Speaker 1>But up suck isn't the only possible purpose for the

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<v Speaker 1>female orgasm. The intense feeling of pleasure, the idea that

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<v Speaker 1>that has no function at all. It's hard to swallow because, uh, jeez,

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<v Speaker 1>I shouldn't say, come David, better angels, let's keep it classy.

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<v Speaker 1>It's hard. It's hard to believe because you would think

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<v Speaker 1>that that kind of intense feeling would have some effect

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<v Speaker 1>on behavior. Right. It seems likely, and there's some evidence

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<v Speaker 1>that this is the case, that if women have more

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<v Speaker 1>orgasms with a partner, then they feel more emotionally close,

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<v Speaker 1>and that that would then tend to sort of strengthen

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<v Speaker 1>a long term pair bond. So the contractions of a

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<v Speaker 1>female orgasm might improve the likelihood of fertilization. Or maybe

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<v Speaker 1>the pleasure is the purpose and that it strengthens the

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<v Speaker 1>emotional bonds between sexual partners. They're different hypotheses, but they're

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<v Speaker 1>not mutually exclusive. Steve Gang said, the dude who told

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<v Speaker 1>us about mammal sex at the very start of this program.

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<v Speaker 1>Says that our concealed ovulation may also encourage pair bonds

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<v Speaker 1>between mates. And here's why. Mammal species males don't care

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<v Speaker 1>for they're young at all, But humans take a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of work to raise and concealed ovulation maybe a strategy

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<v Speaker 1>to help get dad's involved. This takes a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of explaining, so bear with me. Picture a world where

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<v Speaker 1>it's somehow very obvious when human women are in the

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<v Speaker 1>fertile phase of their psycho they act a certain way,

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<v Speaker 1>or they look a certain way, or they only whistle

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<v Speaker 1>show tunes, whatever, all the guys would be interested in

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<v Speaker 1>mating at this time. The proverbial milkshake bringing all the

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<v Speaker 1>boys to the yard. But with an abundance of boys

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<v Speaker 1>and only so much milkshake, not every dude would get

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<v Speaker 1>the chance to copulate. Males are not of equal ability

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to take advantage of that. There are

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<v Speaker 1>some that are going to be more dominant and they

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<v Speaker 1>can monopolize the fertile phase matings. M h. The alpha

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<v Speaker 1>males could just chase the other suitors out of the yard.

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<v Speaker 1>Most offspring are sired by just a few dominant males. Then,

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<v Speaker 1>when the lady next door enters her fertile phase, the

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<v Speaker 1>dominant males would head over to her yard, leaving the

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<v Speaker 1>pregnant female to raise the young alone. But this situation

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't serve the genetic interests of the female all that well.

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<v Speaker 1>For her, it'd be better if both parents cared for

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<v Speaker 1>the baby, improving the kid's chances of growing up and

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<v Speaker 1>one day mating two. The problem with those dominant males

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<v Speaker 1>is they're doing just fine. Caring for babies would take

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<v Speaker 1>away from the dominant males mating time, which is their

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<v Speaker 1>best bet for genetic success, and so to mate with

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<v Speaker 1>males who would provide care for her young. Female bodies

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<v Speaker 1>evolved to hide their fertile phases by concealing ovulation. Then

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<v Speaker 1>the male, the dominant males can't just guard, so that's

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<v Speaker 1>an argument for the evolution of concealed opulation that arose

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<v Speaker 1>early antien Needy late nineteen seventies. The alpha males can't

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<v Speaker 1>fend off other suitors from all the females all the time,

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<v Speaker 1>so other males get the chance to mate, and these

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<v Speaker 1>non dominant males, they're not the high octane studs who

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<v Speaker 1>can fight off rivals and mate with all the females.

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<v Speaker 1>They're best chance at getting their genes out there is

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<v Speaker 1>to lock it down, to form pair bonds and invest

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<v Speaker 1>in the kids to give them a better shot at

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<v Speaker 1>growing up and continuing the line. The top theory I

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<v Speaker 1>think is that extended sexuality is about biparental care. It

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<v Speaker 1>co evolved with biparental care and humans, and that extended

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<v Speaker 1>sexuality is partly about strengthening that pair bond, ensuring investment

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<v Speaker 1>from a primary partner. In conversations like these, it can

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<v Speaker 1>be tempting to try to retrofit the whole world with

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<v Speaker 1>an evolutionary explanation. But not every feature of our body

0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:04.800
<v Speaker 1>or our behavior is perfectly adapted to our environments. Evolution

0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.080
<v Speaker 1>works on transmutations, and we're just the best models that

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:12.319
<v Speaker 1>have emerged so far. And also, responsible scientists need more

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:16.320
<v Speaker 1>evidence than yeah, that it totally makes sense. What do

0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:21.680
<v Speaker 1>we know for sure about extended sexuality in humans? If anything? Well,

0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.600
<v Speaker 1>being a scientist, very very cautious about what we say

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:31.320
<v Speaker 1>that we know for sure because it's tough to prove stuff,

0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 1>And that, my friends, is the full and complete story

0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.680
<v Speaker 1>of human sexuality. We ovulate in secret, we get it

0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:45.440
<v Speaker 1>on all the time, and female orgasms are Hello, mysterious. Okay,

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:47.880
<v Speaker 1>let's bring up the house lights drive to say if

0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:55.920
<v Speaker 1>everybody to be bartenders and good night. Nope, wrong, stop.

0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.240
<v Speaker 1>Obviously we cannot end the show that way. We can't

0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.920
<v Speaker 1>talk about all this sex we're having only in terms

0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:08.720
<v Speaker 1>of genetics and reproduction and up sick. Our horizontal lives

0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.680
<v Speaker 1>are shaped by culture, too, so let's pan out for

0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.920
<v Speaker 1>some much needed context. So far, we've been using the

0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:19.360
<v Speaker 1>terms male and female as absolute and discreet, which isn't

0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.960
<v Speaker 1>how we consider them in the real and complicated world.

0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:27.000
<v Speaker 1>We've also been pretty heteronormative. Let's bring in sex historian

0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:31.240
<v Speaker 1>Kate Lister for a quick vocab check on that last term.

0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.760
<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me what the term heteronormative means. It's

0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.360
<v Speaker 1>when all of our assumptions and our biases are coming

0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:41.280
<v Speaker 1>from a place where we are making pains and vagina

0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 1>sexual sex the default, and everything else around that is

0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:50.000
<v Speaker 1>not the default. Homosexual behavior has been abundantly documented all

0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:54.320
<v Speaker 1>over the animal kingdom, from swans to lions to lizards,

0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 1>and sex isn't only procreative either if it's about making babies,

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.160
<v Speaker 1>And how do we account for masturbation and oral sex

0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.400
<v Speaker 1>anal sex same sex sex. Keith is a researcher. It

0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.520
<v Speaker 1>leads Trinity University in England. In her book A Curious

0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 1>History of Sex, she documents all sorts of sexual fantasies

0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:16.480
<v Speaker 1>and fears and prohibitions throughout the ages. The actual act

0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.960
<v Speaker 1>of sex itself is pretty standard, but what changes and

0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.760
<v Speaker 1>what's different is people's attitudes to it, the rituals that

0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.480
<v Speaker 1>go around it, the things that are shamed, things are acceptable,

0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:33.600
<v Speaker 1>things that are condemned. The Puritans who left our jolly

0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:37.800
<v Speaker 1>shows and turned up on yours, bringing with them sexual

0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.400
<v Speaker 1>repression and shame and mad hats with buckles on. That

0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:47.960
<v Speaker 1>was they were really caught up about sexuality. And the Puritans,

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.200
<v Speaker 1>they were a movement that started largely out of this

0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:55.760
<v Speaker 1>denying pleasure, but a very excessive and strict version of

0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Puritanism that rejected where they thought of as Catholic decadence,

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.760
<v Speaker 1>and sex was something very much that they wanted to repress.

0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.359
<v Speaker 1>But a whole society can't just go called turkey. You

0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.199
<v Speaker 1>have to have some sex otherwise we're all just going

0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.239
<v Speaker 1>to die out. So then it becomes about controlling the

0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:16.159
<v Speaker 1>act very very carefully, and the Puritans are sort of

0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.480
<v Speaker 1>very much in that vein. You could have sex, but

0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.200
<v Speaker 1>you couldn't enjoy it. It was for making babies only.

0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:25.320
<v Speaker 1>Victorian England has become sort of like the poster child

0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.960
<v Speaker 1>for sexual hang ups. There is a real emphasis on

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.360
<v Speaker 1>trying to stop people, women and men, but particularly men

0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:37.600
<v Speaker 1>from masturbating. And what you've got anti masturbation devices that

0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.440
<v Speaker 1>came around in sort of the mid nineteenth century, and

0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.760
<v Speaker 1>the idea was to stop quote unquote nocturnal emissions. So

0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.880
<v Speaker 1>that's a wet dream. So what you get is these rings,

0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.760
<v Speaker 1>sper matter zoa rings, which are basically were tied on

0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.400
<v Speaker 1>the penis but had really sharp, jagged teeth on the inside,

0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.040
<v Speaker 1>so you'd put the penis into it, and then the

0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.080
<v Speaker 1>idea would be that if he got an erection the

0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.520
<v Speaker 1>middle of the night, the teeth would bite out and

0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 1>wake him up before he could lose his special seed. Okay,

0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.960
<v Speaker 1>So so I am currently looking at your hardcover book

0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.680
<v Speaker 1>and there is like a pen and ink drawing that's

0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:16.440
<v Speaker 1>labeled the four pointed urethril ring. Yep, yep. And it's

0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.240
<v Speaker 1>quite horrendous thing, isn't it. Yeah, it's one of those things.

0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.480
<v Speaker 1>It's like even as even as a lady. The legs

0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.959
<v Speaker 1>cross a little bit, isn't it's it's that awful. But yeah,

0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:30.880
<v Speaker 1>it looks like a napkin ring yep, that has spikes

0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:34.440
<v Speaker 1>on the inside of the circumference. Yeah, that's pretty much it. Yeah,

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:41.320
<v Speaker 1>it's a bummer kate, it's a realm. But Victorians also

0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.280
<v Speaker 1>produced a bunch of kinky porn, like they're really into

0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.600
<v Speaker 1>stuff like whips and lashes. So there's this sort of

0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:53.000
<v Speaker 1>choreograph hypocrisy about what's publicly forbidden but still happens in private.

0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:55.480
<v Speaker 1>Look at our own society, you know, Paul, you know

0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't watch Part up Master Bag. Of course you do.

0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.600
<v Speaker 1>We just don't talk about it, impolite society. With the

0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.840
<v Speaker 1>passage of time and a better understanding of our own bodies,

0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.760
<v Speaker 1>our attitudes about sex and sexuality have changed in big,

0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.920
<v Speaker 1>like head spinning ways. The pill sparked a revolution. It

0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:15.880
<v Speaker 1>just radicalized everything because suddenly you could control your own

0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.440
<v Speaker 1>reproduction and it placed in the hands of women as well.

0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.360
<v Speaker 1>That's amazing. I do get asked a lot. Was there

0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.360
<v Speaker 1>ever a period in history when we had it all

0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.119
<v Speaker 1>figured out, when when everyone was just coverting in a

0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:31.679
<v Speaker 1>shame free sexual paradise. And the answer to the question

0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.160
<v Speaker 1>is is the closest we've ever come is probably now,

0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:37.560
<v Speaker 1>and which feels really uncomfortable because like we look around

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.560
<v Speaker 1>and to go, you're freaking kidding me, Like there's still

0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.159
<v Speaker 1>places around the world where people will be killed for

0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.640
<v Speaker 1>their sexuality, but the fact that there is a movement

0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.440
<v Speaker 1>to not shame people, to not execute people because of

0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:52.080
<v Speaker 1>their sexuality or chemically castrate them or do so, we

0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:56.439
<v Speaker 1>are the closest now that we've been to getting it

0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:04.040
<v Speaker 1>all figured out. And that's quite scary. Humans have culture

0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:08.800
<v Speaker 1>and birth control, religious mandates and weaponized napkin rings. So

0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.000
<v Speaker 1>does that put us above the freight of evolutionary forces?

0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm betting that when researchers Steve goes to a restaurant

0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:19.320
<v Speaker 1>with friends, everybody at the table is fascinated by his work,

0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.760
<v Speaker 1>but few are really convinced it applies to their own lives.

0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.760
<v Speaker 1>Did you ever talked to people who kind of dismiss

0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:28.760
<v Speaker 1>your work as reductive, like, Oh, that's the way it

0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:30.680
<v Speaker 1>works in animals, but that's not the way it works

0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.760
<v Speaker 1>for us. Well, certainly some people what they say is, oh,

0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.480
<v Speaker 1>the magic is gone, but I don't see it that way.

0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:41.080
<v Speaker 1>The thing is the magic is what you feel. But

0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:43.879
<v Speaker 1>what's under the magic, what's giving rise to all this?

0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:47.920
<v Speaker 1>The loves there? The question is why is the love there?

0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:57.480
<v Speaker 1>It's at a different level of analysis. The way that

0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:03.560
<v Speaker 1>we experience lust and love of and jealousy and intimacy.

0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:08.679
<v Speaker 1>They feel so real, so fundamental to our humanity, that

0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't think we want them undermined by chemical accounts.

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.000
<v Speaker 1>We don't want to hear our most poignant experiences boiled

0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.800
<v Speaker 1>down to only genes and reproduction. But I agree with Steve,

0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:21.800
<v Speaker 1>there are motors to the magic, and learning how the

0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:26.000
<v Speaker 1>gears fit doesn't have to break the spell. If concealed

0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:31.440
<v Speaker 1>ovulation encourages pair bonds, Hey lucky us, a proclivity to

0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:34.040
<v Speaker 1>love one another is written in the code of our design.

0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:37.639
<v Speaker 1>If our species has evolved to have sex all around

0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:42.080
<v Speaker 1>the cycle, Hey lucky, Yes, put a date night on

0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 1>the calendar. Any day will do. And that concludes our show.

0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:51.240
<v Speaker 1>Be safe, be kind to one another, maybe make a milkshake,

0:21:51.680 --> 0:22:00.240
<v Speaker 1>see who comes around, and for the final bows. Be

0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.679
<v Speaker 1>Human is a BBC World Service, an American public media

0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:08.360
<v Speaker 1>co production with I Heart Media and hosted by MESA.

0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:17.280
<v Speaker 1>Next Time a deeply human Our topic is standing in

0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:20.240
<v Speaker 1>line and why it turns us into low rage monsters.

0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:25.919
<v Speaker 1>There is a meme that's been going around. It has

0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.280
<v Speaker 1>a picture of Beyonce and it says, why aren't you Beyonce?

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:31.160
<v Speaker 1>She has the same twenty four hours you do, um,

0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.480
<v Speaker 1>and I don't think that's accurate at all. We all

0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:38.000
<v Speaker 1>do have objectively twenty four hours, but we are often

0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:41.359
<v Speaker 1>forced to use those hours in very distinct ways. I

0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:44.960
<v Speaker 1>think about people who have very long commutes to their

0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:48.439
<v Speaker 1>second job, and time is very different for them. The

0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:52.000
<v Speaker 1>people in a grocery store line who have to, you know,

0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:56.040
<v Speaker 1>use food stamps or cash and count coupons. They're using

0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:59.200
<v Speaker 1>their time at that check out stand very differently than

0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:06.040
<v Speaker 1>I have to. Oh,