WEBVTT - Inside San Quentin Continues 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:05.440 Man, what's handed man? You got Marshaw Bismall Lynch, Doug Hendrickson. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.639 And Gavin Knewsome and you're listening to politics you know 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:09.800 to be you known to be. 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:20.680 So. 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.599 Doug, Doug Marshawn, what was that? I mean, it's been 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.759 about a week or so. What was the experience like 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:28.240 going into San Quent, Doug. I think it was the 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:30.400 first time you've been inside San Quentin, right. 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.199 It was eye opening, and it was it was enlightening 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.199 because I truthfully, when I went there, I expected to, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.600 you know, a much much different perspective than I thought. 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.760 I mean when I got there, seeing these these inmates 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:48.480 and prisoners who literally the programs that San Quentin had 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:53.479 and their mindset that you know, yeah, incarcerated if or 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:55.600 if they don't get out or they get out, to 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.080 have the programs in place to have these guys' life 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.600 change in terms of uh, their mindset was so enlightening. 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:07.199 I did not expect to meet the sixty seventy eighty 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:10.880 prisoners that they did, that had the mindset they'd have, 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:13.320 and it blew me away. 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:13.880 I bet. 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:15.760 I mean one of the things I imagine if you've 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:17.600 never been there, and I remember the first time I 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:18.280 went to San Juan. 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:19.520 What really surprised me is. 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:22.840 That you can walk into the yard and there are 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.440 hundreds and hundreds of prisoners, and folks can walk right. 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:27.720 Up to you. 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.120 You can talk. I mean, we were talking to lifers. 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:32.960 We were talking to folks that may never see the 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.080 light of day, and they're all out there in the yard. 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:38.400 People seem to be getting along. They're willing. I mean 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:40.840 they're willing. The guards are willing to allow you to 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:44.800 walk around. I mean, was that something you had anticipated. 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:46.640 You thought it would be a little bit more organized. 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.600 I thought you'd see, honestly, I thought you'd see the 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:53.240 Hispanics in one side the blacks. I thought you'd see 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:55.400 the segregation in terms of the prisoners like you see 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.840 in the movies. But to see these guys walk up, 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:01.000 and how appreciative they were that we were there, how 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:05.200 appreciative they were without the prisons, and Quentin with the warden, 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.440 had the programs that they have, uh and all the 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.800 things that they're allowed to do, to walk freely and 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.240 to take part in you know, math programs in the 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:15.840 podcast room that they have, and and the different things 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.040 they're doing. Was was completely eye opening to me in 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:19.639 a great way. 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:21.600 Marshawn, you ever met a warden like that? 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:24.040 Nah? 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:25.880 That wasn't the kind of warden you expect. 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:30.040 But but but the thing, the biggest thing that stuck out, 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:37.080 uh to me about him was you know, the uh, 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.880 the gentleman that we was talking to that was from 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:44.160 Oakland and he's like, yeah, man, I noticed, like man, 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.160 you know we've been doing time together, like you feemy, 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.120 I remember he used to come run up in my 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.240 cel and hell of shit, you know, we bumping it 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.680 out and is the third and then to see like 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.280 you know, them two just sitting down being able to 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.239 you know, I mean reminisce on what it was like, 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:00.400 you know what I mean back in the days can entering. 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:05.960 You know how far they have came on, you know, 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.480 for both of them, and you know they relationship and 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.000 being able to just see them have a conversation it 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:14.240 was more and so like you know, I mean, that 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.280 was more so like you running into one of your 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.600 old school pintners that you used to fight all the 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:21.240 time when y'all was younger, And you know what I mean, like, boy, 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.320 you remember I used to chase your ass? Now like 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:25.600 hell yeah, you Remember I was hiding all that dope 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:27.320 from you, like you know, I had it, but you 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.519 couldn't find my ship. Boy, I had my sending a 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:34.200 good but it was just like for me to see 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:40.920 that the warden had a mindset like, damn, I've really 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:45.200 been doing time with you, and as much time as 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:47.720 you been doing, I've been doing it as well. So 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.160 you know, when I look at that situation and you 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:51.480 know what I mean, you know, you look at it 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:57.720 from an institutionalize situation, it's like these wardens, these CEOs, 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:01.000 you know what I mean, they going into prison and 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:05.320 they doing this time too. Now under the circumstances in 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.920 the situation like yeah, you're going in here to get 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:10.520 a check, to be able to you know what I mean, 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.240 take care of your family and shit. But the way 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.120 that he was just making it, you know what I mean, 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.280 in a situation where like you know, we were being 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:20.240 integrated here, like you know what I mean, I go 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.360 and talk to my guys like, hey, you know, what 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.440 can we do you know I mean, in order to 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.880 help you know what I mean, make this a a 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.000 you know what I mean, as comfortable as it is. 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.120 And I'm not sure if y'all was around while we 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.400 were having the conversation, but he was saying he gave 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.440 a you know, I mean a scenario like you know, 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:44.000 you get a twenty year old and I mean have 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.960 a run in with the law, and then you know, 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.520 from there, get arrested, go to the county and then 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.120 you know, I mean from that officer that he come 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.599 into contact with is not a good interaction. Then the 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.760 DA not a good interaction. Then you go in the 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:03.280 court and now you're talking to the motherfucking judge, and 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.280 the judge talking down that you're not a good situation. 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:08.560 And then you know, I mean, you do your counting 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.160 time you interacting with the guards in they're not a 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.800 good situation. And then you know, I mean they come 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:18.000 and they drop you off into the pen. And the 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:20.520 motherfucker was like, I have to, you know, tell my 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:23.880 guards and shit like hey, you know what I mean 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.039 when when these individuals step off the fucking the bus, 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:32.200 like these are still humans considering you know, they they 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:34.040 fucked up and they did what they did. But at 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:35.840 the end of the time, end of the day, you're 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.200 about to be here with this individual for a long time, 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:42.000 so you go ahead and establish a relationship with this individual. 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:44.920 So while you're doing it, that's that's that takes less 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.680 off your plate to the point where you ain't here, 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.360 you ain't got to look over your back. I know 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.480 you're hear so many times about you know, in prison, 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.440 the guards getting bum rushed by inmates, this, that and 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.160 the third. But you know, I mean his mindset was to, 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.000 I mean, well, we gonna be here. It ain't knowing 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.240 we could do about it, you know, I mean regardless 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.880 to whatever you've done to get in here. But basically, motherfucker, 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:08.919 we finna be roommates, we finna be living here, so 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:11.320 we might as well find a common ground to where 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:13.919 we could get an understanding to Yeah, I mean for 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:17.080 you that I can feel safe and for you, for 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.200 you can feel safe. And I'm like, you know what, man, 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:23.600 when you think about that process, like yeah, why would 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.520 I get off this bus going into the pen thinking 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.760 like oh it's cool, Like nah, hell no, I'm pissed 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.479 off a mad as fuck along my journey is being 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.640 fucked up. This then the third and I mean, you know, 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:40.160 not to you, I mean look at it from a 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.440 position to where you know, whether you are incarcerated, like 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.760 you've done what you've done, and now it come time 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.200 to you know, serve your time and do what you 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.000 gotta do, like you know what I mean, you got 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.120 to make the most of it. And then when I 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.240 talk to individual my family that is in there, and 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.840 I asked these individuals like, hey man, how you doing? 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.520 And when I talk to him and they coming from 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.400 a standpoint of like I'm in a good space, and 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.040 it fucks me up in my head. I'm like, damn, bro, 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:12.120 you not coming outside, You're not like you're not finna 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.800 come home. But for you to be you know, I 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.640 mean to have a mindset like you know, one day 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:19.640 at a time. And I'm in a good space, you know, 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.560 I mean I got a program, a regiment. I mean, 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:25.520 I stick to that and you know I got served 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.840 my time. It's like fuck. But then I can see 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.440 where that situation would come from after having a conversation 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:36.240 with a warden that maybe, you know, I mean, operate 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:37.040 the way that he do. 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.280 And what's so special about this war love what I mean, 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.480 I think that distinction that you just made and I 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.480 loved hearing it as you did from the wardens and 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.640 we're both we're both doing time together. I mean this 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.000 idea that that they share that experience and to have 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.200 the warden top down, to have a lot. 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:56.160 Of guards, not all of them. 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.360 I mean, we're doing a lot of reforms and not 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.760 everybody's on board, but a lot of of the guards 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:04.000 are on board because they recognize that they want to 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:07.120 create a safer environment. They want an environment where people 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.640 are more respected and they don't have to your point, 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.520 if they turn their back, they're not worried about what's 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.720 going on behind their back every single minute of every 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:15.280 single day. 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:16.880 But I think what's. 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.240 Special about this warden is he has his own lived 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:23.040 experience with his own family and the fact that he 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.840 had family members doing time and grew up in that 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.760 environment and with a deeper perspective of understanding. So we're 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.000 we're lucky as hell to have this guy at San 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:37.240 quent leading the way in this transformation of one of 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.800 the most iconic prisons in the world, what we call 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.280 the California model. And so what you guys saw in 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:44.800 the yard is what we want to see a lot 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:49.880 more of as we increase scale ten x the programming there, 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:54.200 we physically redesign that facility, just as we did with 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:54.719 Death Row. 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:56.520 And I'm curious for you guys. 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.400 I mean, I don't know if you've been on death 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:03.240 row before we call the East Block at San Quentin, 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.320 what was that experience like to physically walk in to 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:08.440 death row. 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.440 Well, before I get to that, Gvin, I mean just 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.679 looking at the non lifers and looking at the cells 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:20.000 that those guys had that might get out in ten, fifteen, five, ten, fifteen, 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:24.960 twenty years whatever. If to understand that when you put 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.080 your hands to the side, you can touch the walls, 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.120 when you put your hands above you can touch the ceiling, 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.040 and if you're six foot two, six foot whatever it 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.040 may be, and you have a cellmate, you can't turn 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:38.920 around without going back to back to. 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:39.760 Get around the cell. 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.080 To be able to live in those conditions and think 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.280 you might get out in five ten years without the 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.760 programs that San Quentin has, you have no hope. And 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.040 I can see that if these guys get out in 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.559 other prisons that don't have the programs and the hope 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.160 that they're giving them, how do you get out and 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.520 expect to join the real world and function and be 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.120 a memor society, as a as a father, as a. 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:07.480 Husband, as whatever it may be. Go forward? It's mind blown. 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.160 So I mean a kudos to San Quentin because these 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.360 inmates that have a chance to get out, even the 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:16.040 ones that don't, their mindset is the right way, which 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:17.200 is pretty cool to see. 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.240 Uh. To walk to death Row was eerie. 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:22.480 It was. 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.199 My hair raising on my arms. It was really really 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:32.120 weird to see that part of it. To walk through, 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:33.800 and I can see both sides. I can see as 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.240 a as a parent, if your son or daughter gets 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:40.040 killed and they're there, you can see, Hey, you know what, 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.160 I wanted to stay there or I wanted to get killed. 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:43.720 I don't know what I would do if this was 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:44.679 my son or dough. 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:45.240 I don't know. 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.160 I can't tell you and equivocally, but to walk through there, 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.240 it was eerie, and it was weird, and it was 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.040 it was you know, it was tough to see, no 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:54.800 question about it. 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.000 Yeah, Marshaun, what was it like for you? I mean 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.280 you you walked in. I don't know how long you 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.960 stuck a I mean, what was that like for me? 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:04.960 Man? That ain't you know? I mean, that ain't something 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:08.920 that you feel me. I don't that Main's something I 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:12.400 would say, like I glorify, So you know what I mean? 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:14.400 You know what I mean, I think what I maybe 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:18.480 stepped in maybe three four five steps and then you know, 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:20.160 I got the fuck up out of there. But just 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:23.480 the mentality of just you know, I mean, understanding that 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.520 you got motherfuckers locked in that box in that cave. 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.440 That's that's some you know what I mean, that's some 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.000 some some deep shit. Now I understand you feel me, 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.240 you do that, that situation, you do, the crime, you 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:40.560 do the time type shit. So for me, man, just 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:44.400 like even just thinking about it, it's like I don't 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:46.480 even want to go and put myself in a position 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.960 where I even go get a visual or some shit 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.079 like that, because I mean, at the end of the day, 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.319 my model is you feel me though I'm trying to last, 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.840 not come in last, and just going even just for me, 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.280 just even going in there and getting, ah, you mean 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.360 a glimpse of it, Like I mean, I don't want 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:04.560 that for real, for real. 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.640 So I mean I imagine it was like that too 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:09.640 when we were at the gas chamber and then we 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:14.280 went separated that the death chamber where they do the injections. 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.120 Hell yeah, like man, that's some ship, like you know 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:18.960 what I mean, Like I don't even want to see 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:20.679 like even to the point where you know, we'll talk 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:22.800 about it. You know, when my fucker came out, like 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.600 you know that's sound brutal shit, like you know, you 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:29.280 put the motherfucker in there to to you know what 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.200 I mean, that that walk over there, you know, knowing 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.760 that this's gonna be your last walk, like you know 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.560 what I mean, just the mindset of how that ship go, 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:42.640 but understanding like like damn, there's some there's some real 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:44.480 fuck up ship and I know I was saying to 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.200 you or like there's some barbers ship, like who the 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.440 fuck think is ship like this? In order to just 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.439 you know what I mean, take motherfuckers lives. It's it's 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:54.960 just like another Tuesday. 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.760 Another Tuesday could be Monday through Friday. I mean, dozens 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.840 of people right now are eligible to be executed. They've 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.560 exhausted all their appeals. And I think for me, you know, 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.520 I really wanted you guys to see that, particularly Doug. 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.360 I think you came back with me and were the 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.320 injection chair that place. Since the last time we did 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.960 an execution was two thousand and six. They literally have 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.400 not changed anything in that room. They just moved some 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.920 of the chairs, but every single thing is the same, 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.960 including the phone on the wall with a red light 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:35.360 above it with the governor says the governor doesn't say 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.720 which governor says the governor waiting for that phone call 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.840 to do a reprieve, to stop the execution or allow 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.040 the green light for the execution to go. I've been 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.360 in there a couple of times, and you talk about 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.959 Doug hair on your arms. I mean, that's just that 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.120 sits with you in a different way that you have 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.520 the ability. It's like some gladiator, you know, putting up 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.040 the thumb up or down life and death. And so 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:02.040 I appreciate mar Shaun about that. This notion that we 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.360 can kill broken people, that we can do it in 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:08.720 a premeditated way, that somehow that we're saying it's wrong 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.480 to kill people, but in the name of that we 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.800 execute someone. That's just hard for me to square. And 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:19.040 as governor, that responsibility falls, you know, straight on my. 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:20.160 Damn lap well. 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.160 And the sad thing, Gavin, look, I mean, you know, 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:25.840 you and I weren't raised the same way that Marshaun was, 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:27.400 a lot of people were. But to see some of 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.320 these guys in there and to make a wrong turn 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.440 in life, you know and end up. I mean, it's 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:38.320 not fair. It's really scary in a lot of ways. 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:40.080 And his eye opening. I think I was talking to 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.000 twenty four year old prisoner there who talked about when 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.800 he was I think his mom was a prostitute, his 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:50.040 dad didn't wasn't there seven eight nine years old, had 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.640 no food, didn't know what to do. I think he 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.240 had his first you know, stole some bread as a kid, 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:58.080 and he kind of evolved from there. 0:14:58.120 --> 0:14:59.960 But this kid did no chance in life. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.240 He had no chance and he got in and luckily 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.960 he's got a chance to get out in ten fifteen years. 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.760 But you know, without the programme san Quentin has, without 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.680 the hope he's going to have going forward. I mean, 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.640 this kid had no chance in life, and it's really sad. 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.680 But most people in the world don't look at this 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.360 and say, oh, well, he shouldn't have been in there. Okay, 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:22.720 we'll put yourself in issues. 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:23.360 What are you gonna do? 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:24.240 Really? 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:25.600 I mean, I mean that's the hard part. 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:29.240 All powerful components of what we ultimately want to bring 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:30.840 to light in this podcast. 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:33.480 Well, yeah, and I applaud you for doing what you've 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:35.720 do done with san Quentin and all the prisoners across 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.320 California because it's making a difference. 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.720 And to your point, you know, when they do get out, they're. 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.640 Going to be our neighbors, our community members and all that, 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:46.680 and so what you've done is great. So I appreciate 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:48.040 what you've done and taken us in there. 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.880 How about one of those community members is my old 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:58.440 teammate in Twin Cities Little League in Larksburg, California, and 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.200 that literally my age. You met him, Doug Marshaun. You 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:08.000 guys all met him. Angelo Mecki, who was our third baseman, shortstop, 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:12.480 second baseman, had everything going for him in life and 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.520 just started hanging out with the wrong people. I mean, 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.080 you talk about just this, how any for the grace 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.240 of God go any of us. One decision hanging out 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.120 with the wrong people. A couple of bad decisions after that, 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:29.280 and here he is, third striker, third damn striker. But 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.120 it was a hell of a thing to walk into 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:36.080 that yard and meet a former Little League teammate who says, hey, Gavin, 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:38.160 how's your sister doing? You like, what the hell are 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.040 you talking about? And find a guy who played for 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.160 Roundtable Pizza that was the name of the team, and 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:49.680 my eleventh, twelfth year old Little League team. So it's 0:16:50.480 --> 0:17:04.200 it's life and I think people really enjoy this podcast. Bordon, 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.399 where I've been in here, I've had the privilege of 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.399 being Air of San Quentin News on a number of occasions, 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.000 and to see the evolution over the course last decade 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.280 here in the multimedia and all the incredible work that 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.720 they continued to do. Tell us a little bit about 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:18.720 this space, maybe a little bit of history, and tell 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.199 us a little bit about your journey. You're in the 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:25.439 newly appointed tag. You're it Warden of San Quentin, the 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:30.880 iconic San Quentin built eighteen fifty two, the oldest, oldest 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.120 state prison in the state of California. 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.920 I would say it's the luckiest. I'm the luckiest person 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.480 alive right now. As far as my job, I'm leading 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:41.880 the California model here at San Quentin State Prison. We're 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.640 in our media room, which produces a podcast, it has 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:50.280 a filming studio, it has a newspaper. The opportunity that 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.200 the governor has given me is pretty cool. My journey 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.280 is a little different. My father was incarcerated and out 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.080 of jail, so I grew up kind of having to 0:17:59.080 --> 0:17:59.919 make some tough choices. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.000 Yeah, so that me and you we got kind of like, 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:03.879 you know what I mean, because that's that's how my 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:05.080 poths was. You feel me. 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.639 So I had to make a decision, man, you know, 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:10.240 do I follow that trend or do I. 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:11.000 Do I change? 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:12.080 Well, how long was your dead in for? 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.400 So I didn't see him a lot after he got incarstraighted. 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.080 He now passed, but he was a D number, which 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.840 tells you was probably about thirty years ago. He did 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:22.119 some time in Chino, and then he was in and 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.119 out of jail. So he really wasn't relevant in my life. 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:28.760 So I wanted to distance myself from him. So I 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.320 went into law enforcement because everybody assumed I was going 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.280 to go that path, and I started over twenty two 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.160 years ago. I started over twenty two years ago when 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.480 the three strikes law was in effect. No one told 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:42.960 us how to do it. We just went in there 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.159 and they just told us how it was. So to 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.560 get the opportunity to actually give back to the community 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.760 and get people ready to participate in our communities and 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:52.960 give back, it's an amazing. 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.439 That's hell of that's that's strange that you even you 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.359 feel me, don't look at it like that, because just 0:18:57.560 --> 0:18:59.520 when you hear like the war and type shit, that's 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:03.480 like hell no, like almost like the principal at school 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.160 and shit like that. So it's and then to hear 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.959 them saying like, you know, giving back to the community 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.640 like for whatever, that shit just not for me. It's 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.800 not translating in my head to even think about it 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.119 in that way. So when you say that, because you 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.240 just threw out some shit, that's big. When you say 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.240 we're in the media room, like y'all got a podcast, 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.160 y'all got it? Uh, first of all these goddamn cameras 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.320 that I've been seeing these guys walk around with that 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.119 you feel what I'm saying, that's some state of the 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:37.960 ort like equipment type shit. So it sounds like you know, 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:41.000 I mean, we was talking a little like the system 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:45.800 and the mold that has been kind of for the 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:50.080 last I don't know how many goddamn years. But you 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:51.679 know when you came up and like, yeah, I'm the 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:53.640 ward and we're like, damn you look shit, you don't 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:55.840 look a day Yeah, you know what I mean? Over 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.280 twenty one like and you say, you know what, you're 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:00.280 trying to change things, trying to break the molde now, 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.240 not just with your appearance, but your mindset and what 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:08.240 you bringing into the institution here. Like, you know, it's 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.760 been hard just you feel me just even coming in here, 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.600 because it's like, why the fuck would you be going 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:17.960 into a prison. But then it's like, you know what 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.399 I mean, the history of my you know, coming up 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.960 here to visit my pops when I was hell younger, Dan, 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.760 you fear me all of my people that just been 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.000 through this system, and you know what I mean, we 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:34.240 have a whole different outlook on what prison is. And 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.320 I mean when I looked up their little research and 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:43.320 it's like it's a rehabilitation spot. But it's like whenever 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.399 somebody come home after doing their time, you feel me 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.919 though they seem to be in a worse off place 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:53.400 than they was when they went in, and they went 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.560 in probably on some you know, I'm young, I'm dumb, 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.520 I don't know. This is just how what I got 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:02.480 to do in order to feed my family or I 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.880 got to protect myself and or whatever. Yeah, I mean, 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.640 they come down to it. But then when they get 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:16.000 out there know way fucked up more mindset. Yeah, I 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:20.159 mean the world has passed them. And I understand is 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:24.040 the the you know what I mean, the punishment was 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:29.399 that the fucking now I told me to op. We 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:38.600 just was talking to my boy about consequences. Yeah, you got. 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:39.520 That's what we're trying to change, exactly what you're saying. 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:41.840 The opposition would say this is a public safety, But 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.640 it's absolutely public safety because we're making citizens here, right, 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:47.399 people that we put back in our community and have 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:49.920 trades degrees to get back to our community. So it 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:53.040 is public safety and that's what some people are struggling 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:53.600 to realize. 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:55.920 And I think one of the things just a good 0:21:55.960 --> 0:22:01.280 reminder everybody folks in our system end up home and 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.679 you want them broken, more pissed off, or do you 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.159 want them to be more resourceful, more fully and you 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:10.159 want them to be your neighbors. You gotta think in 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:10.680 those terms. 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:12.959 Who was I talking recently? I was talking to an 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:16.240 old Mexican mafia guy and he says, Uh, this guy 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:18.560 was running the yard and he had he had a date. 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:19.720 He goes, hey, man, I got a date. Can I 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:25.320 stop politicking? And that leadership in the Mexican mafia basically 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:27.040 allowed that and said, yeah, you've always done your work 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:30.920 for us. Don't mess with them now with the gangser's power, 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:32.720 So now you're not going to always get that type 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:37.440 of thread line or Okay, so yeah, there's there's prison 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:39.560 politics that we could write a book. 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:41.560 So you know what that sounded like to me because 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:44.800 I asked this mufflucker, Hey, why you're gonna run for president? 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:48.480 And then it was an order just like what you 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:51.760 just demonstrated right now, it's an order or how you 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:54.080 feel me, how they rock? And I'm like, oh shit, 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:59.600 so when you politicking, you really dealing with some real politics. 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:03.200 And I'm like, shit, go run for president, like for 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:04.480 we could stop the podcast. 0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:15.960 Of all the things that I've done as governor, the 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:19.359 one thing I wasn't prepared for was this space. I mean, 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:21.720 when you're campaigning out there, no one asked me what 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:26.680 my relationship or with prison reform was. They talked about 0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:29.600 criminal justice reform more broadly. We did not didn't understand 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:31.879 the nature of debriefing. That never came up. There was 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:33.320 no white paper that I had. 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:34.240 I don't know what a. 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:37.880 Gang debrief was. I didn't fully appreciate the parole process 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:41.399 and didn't understand all of these nuances. But every single 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:43.760 week I have life or death decisions. Literally, no bullshit. 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:47.440 When you're looking at that, what is it in your mind? Like, Okay, 0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:49.400 if I see these type of. 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:53.160 It's exactly what we just heard right there. As you want, 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:56.040 you can kind of talk away. I want to know 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:58.080 the journey. I want to know that it's sincere, it's 0:23:58.119 --> 0:23:59.760 not bullshit. I want to know that you didn't just 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:03.680 go into some program just to quote unquote get a check, 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:06.080 so you just stack in those checks to come to me. 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:09.680 I want to know that you feel remorse, that you 0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:13.280 feel for the victims, that you have a relationship to 0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:15.360 the victims, because at the end of the day, we 0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:18.960 I think what happens when we have these conversations. People 0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:21.640 see it as it's it's right or wrong, black or white. 0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:24.199 You spend time with the folks that are incarcerated, it 0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:26.639 means somehow you're taking away from the families and the 0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:29.840 victims and I and that's important to me that that 0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:32.760 has to be both. And you've got to come out 0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:38.160 feeling deeply responsible, accountable, remorseful, and you've got to come 0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:41.000 back as stronger person. And if you if you have that, 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:43.439 if you have empathy, you have care. I have some 0:24:43.480 --> 0:24:47.800 goddamn compassion and you could demonstrate that, then that's determinative 0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:48.199 in terms of. 0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:49.159 The people that we let go. 0:24:49.440 --> 0:24:53.680 Otherwise, if I feel just a it's instinctual sometimes and 0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:56.760 it's just immediately rejection. 0:24:57.280 --> 0:24:59.840 When you just look at the name, like Marshaan Lanche. 0:25:01.480 --> 0:25:03.399 You know what, That's what every governor used to do. 0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:07.000 When I go fill out job applications, they. 0:25:08.000 --> 0:25:08.880 The name alone. 0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:13.040 By the way, you see that, that's a real thing. 0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:14.640 That's what I'm saying. 0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:16.120 But let me let me tell you, let me tell 0:25:16.119 --> 0:25:17.000 you negotiate. 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:22.400 It's only been since Governor Brown had gotten the previous 0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:26.920 governors Democrats, not just Republicans, they rejected every single Parole 0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:27.760 Board recommendation. 0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:28.760 They didn't even look at it. 0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:30.840 And then they would look at the name, or worse, 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:33.160 they'd look at a picture and they go they look 0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:35.760 and see if someone's got tatted up, Like no, he's gone, 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:39.879 I'm no bullshit. And and then race was a determinative 0:25:39.960 --> 0:25:43.240 damn factor for on getting in here and getting out 0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:46.680 of here. So I don't see pictures, I don't care 0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:49.639 about the name. I quite literally look at the journey 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:51.920 people are on, and I look, we have a risk 0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:55.960 assessment a psychologist. I look at the programming. When did 0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:59.159 they debrief from the Mexican mafia. It's been ten years. 0:25:59.280 --> 0:26:02.399 Are they cleaning sober? Because most folks out and a 0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:04.919 lot of them, and they fuck things up because they 0:26:04.920 --> 0:26:07.560 start using again even though they're parole eligible. They've done 0:26:07.560 --> 0:26:09.800 everything right and they were dumb enough to go back. 0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:11.439 And I figure they're dumb enough to do that. Here, 0:26:11.480 --> 0:26:13.320 they're gonna dumb enough to end up back on the 0:26:13.320 --> 0:26:15.719 goddamn streets and back in the pond. 0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:18.960 You because I know, I know, I know how you 0:26:19.280 --> 0:26:20.000 like that. 0:26:20.440 --> 0:26:21.120 Free the game. 0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:24.360 But I know we're gonna tell them, by the way, 0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:26.439 in a minute, we're gonna talk about the goddamn death penalty. 0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:29.600 How about that on your concha? How about that on 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:30.080 your conte? 0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:33.640 Like, just let the motherfucker sit down and do their time. 0:26:34.359 --> 0:26:38.160 It's like, uh, what is that you was talking about 0:26:38.200 --> 0:26:40.520 in the movies and ship like? But the movies, I'll 0:26:40.520 --> 0:26:44.320 be saying they were fucking people will like with the uh, 0:26:44.560 --> 0:26:48.360 the the gas chambers and all those kind of ships, Like, 0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:52.239 who go and think about creating some ship like that? 0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:54.320 The fuck people, that's some sick ship. 0:26:54.480 --> 0:26:56.359 Well, I think it's pretty sick that we tell people 0:26:56.440 --> 0:26:59.840 it's wrong to kill, and so in the name are 0:26:59.840 --> 0:27:01.760 in somehow in the spirit of saying it's wrong to kill, 0:27:01.800 --> 0:27:05.919 we kill people premeditated man, and we kill broken people. 0:27:05.960 --> 0:27:06.120 Man. 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:08.280 One thing everybody has in common. They come in here, 0:27:08.320 --> 0:27:12.080 they're broken, they're broken some way, shape or form. And 0:27:12.119 --> 0:27:14.879 then the idea that we're killing broken people as a 0:27:14.960 --> 0:27:19.320 society systemically, and that was something by the way, broken 0:27:19.400 --> 0:27:21.960 people killing broken pit And so the question is, yeah, 0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:24.480 who's broken. If I'm sitting there, I think there's a 0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:27.520 dozen there's a couple dozen guys that were on sand 0:27:27.800 --> 0:27:30.760 here in San quin eligible for me to put them 0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:34.119 to death, that that had gone through all their all 0:27:34.160 --> 0:27:38.400 their appeals and every sing and no I could have overseen. 0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:41.119 I could have overseen dozens of things. And that had 0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:43.480 been on my watch. Man, Like you decide, you'll go, 0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:45.520 and when we go in the ejection room, you'll see 0:27:45.520 --> 0:27:48.679 the damn phone. You'll see the phone right there, and 0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:51.679 that's the governor's phone for the last phone call. And 0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:55.160 if there's no call, I mean that's on your that's 0:27:55.160 --> 0:27:55.920 on your conscience. 0:27:55.960 --> 0:27:57.080 Man, I couldn't live. 0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:02.760 So if you don't call the governor has the ability 0:28:02.920 --> 0:28:06.679 at those last minutes, reprieve and comye. I mean it's 0:28:06.680 --> 0:28:08.800 it's that's their life or death to say so. I 0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:10.560 did a moratorium. When I got here, I said, I 0:28:10.560 --> 0:28:12.439 can't do it. I just I'm not that guy. I 0:28:12.480 --> 0:28:15.440 can't do it. I talked to Swartz and Agria was 0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:17.399 the last guy that to condempted him in two thousand 0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:19.800 and six, and he didn't. He said this very publicly, 0:28:19.840 --> 0:28:22.119 and it's not a knock on Arnold at all. He 0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:24.800 said it it was last time that was used, right, 0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:26.280 Warne was two thousand and six. 0:28:27.320 --> 0:28:29.800 Yeah, yeah, Well who was it? 0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:32.520 It was Ray Allen and Ray was a legendary guy 0:28:32.600 --> 0:28:35.440 for a lot of different reasons. And I asked, I said, 0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:37.919 I asked Arnold because I had just done the moratorium. 0:28:37.920 --> 0:28:40.160 And I said, you know, I said, how was? 0:28:40.360 --> 0:28:42.719 How was? Just as a human level? And again I 0:28:42.760 --> 0:28:43.360 only share this. 0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:46.400 Because he's repeated publicly, and he said he said to me, no, 0:28:46.440 --> 0:28:48.600 you know, he said, well, I'll give you the asked that. 0:28:48.680 --> 0:28:49.560 He said, you know, you know. 0:28:49.840 --> 0:28:52.160 You know, you know Givin's you know, I slept like 0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:54.920 a baby, he said, he slept like a baby. I'm 0:28:54.960 --> 0:28:59.480 like whoa. And honestly, that like that hit me in 0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:01.640 intense way. He slept like a bit you know what, 0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:05.680 and some way like I respect that he did and 0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:08.080 he was serious about it. I couldn't. I'm not that guy. 0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:10.920 I'm not wired like that. I couldn't do that. And 0:29:10.960 --> 0:29:13.920 so that that was a heavy weight that also led 0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:17.080 to this California model. It's one thing to do a moratorium, 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:19.720 but we got to do a more torum on stupidity, 0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:22.920 doubling down on stupid and the recidiveum rates that are 0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:25.960 off the damn charts. People are less safe as a 0:29:26.000 --> 0:29:29.280 consequence of our stupidity, and we needed to start doing 0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:32.040 program but at scale, not ones, he too, not little 0:29:32.040 --> 0:29:34.640 small ball stuff. And the great thing about San Quentin 0:29:34.680 --> 0:29:37.560 and Wardon was saying this is it's so proximate, and 0:29:37.600 --> 0:29:41.040 proximity is a powerful word, just generally. And that's why 0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:42.720 I keep coming back to the prisons because I want 0:29:42.720 --> 0:29:45.760 to be proximate to what's happening inside so I make 0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:49.080 better decisions on the outside. But the proximity here and 0:29:49.120 --> 0:29:51.640 what I'm relating to is so many people that want 0:29:51.640 --> 0:29:53.400 to volunteer, and it's one of the reasons this is 0:29:53.400 --> 0:29:56.360 a service rich environment, and why I wanted to change 0:29:56.360 --> 0:30:00.000 that environment at scale by investing in this California model 0:30:00.360 --> 0:30:03.120 at a whole nother level where successfully is clues. If 0:30:03.120 --> 0:30:05.640 we can prove it here, we can then lay this 0:30:05.640 --> 0:30:08.000 thing out, lay the tracks for forming the rest of 0:30:08.000 --> 0:30:10.680 the system. This is the biggest system in the United 0:30:10.720 --> 0:30:14.240 States of America, with the largest deskwall in the Western hemisphere. 0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:16.400 We have more prisoners in our system than any other 0:30:16.440 --> 0:30:19.760 state in America. If we can change it here, Warden's power. 0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:22.640 If you can change it here, the paradigm that you 0:30:22.680 --> 0:30:25.480 shift in this country with five percent of the world's 0:30:25.480 --> 0:30:28.360 population but twenty five percent of the people that are incarcerated. 0:30:28.640 --> 0:30:33.040 How much does it cost to house take care? 0:30:34.640 --> 0:30:36.480 What's the latest number? We were at one hundred and 0:30:36.560 --> 0:30:37.720 six thousand two years ago. 0:30:37.760 --> 0:30:38.840 What are we up to this year? 0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:40.360 I think it's about one. 0:30:40.440 --> 0:30:48.120 Yeah, per poseous, you got the motherfucking fifth largest economy in. 0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:52.640 But you know what world you want to put me 0:30:52.760 --> 0:30:53.360 in the mix? 0:30:53.760 --> 0:30:57.000 You are you're gonna be our budget director. God, and 0:30:57.080 --> 0:30:58.600 you want to know why. You want to know why. 0:30:58.800 --> 0:31:01.360 But you you were talking out in the yard, Marshaan. 0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:02.920 Now you want to have a real conversation. You want 0:31:02.960 --> 0:31:05.080 to know what. You want to know why. You want 0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:07.880 to know what the contracts are to make phone calls here. 0:31:08.080 --> 0:31:09.920 You want to know what the racket is there. You 0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:11.920 want to know what the procurement racket is in the 0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:15.160 prison industries and how people are making a fortune oft 0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:17.240 incarcerating people. You want to know what's going with private 0:31:17.320 --> 0:31:20.720 prisons in this country that are incentivizing more folks being 0:31:20.760 --> 0:31:22.400 locked up for longer periods. 0:31:22.480 --> 0:31:23.400 And making a fortune. 0:31:23.640 --> 0:31:26.480 And the lobbyists and the lobbyists that are being hired 0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:28.720 and the lives that are being destroyed so people can 0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:31.120 make money. That's goddamn right. That is a huge part 0:31:31.160 --> 0:31:33.400 of this whole thing, a huge part of it. Don't 0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:35.840 think for a second you're wrong about that. Everything you 0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:38.680 say we're in the yard was spot on. People are 0:31:38.720 --> 0:31:41.960 selling you fear and anxiety, and that's what this is about, 0:31:42.200 --> 0:31:45.720 fear and anxiety. It's fear based and it's fueled by anger. 0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:48.440 And it's understandable because people want to be safe and 0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:51.360 they want and I get that, and victims need to 0:31:51.400 --> 0:31:54.400 be respected and we need to connect them. I think 0:31:54.760 --> 0:31:57.320 we need to connect to that much more. But this 0:31:57.360 --> 0:31:59.920 has become a racket, and breaking up this racket is 0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:03.200 hard and the opposition is real, and it's not about politics. 0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:06.600 Democrats are careful, bro, because when you get to talking 0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:11.680 like that stern and all that type of motherfucker they be, 0:32:11.840 --> 0:32:14.520 they be creeping and ship. Man, Hey, look well you 0:32:14.640 --> 0:32:17.200 just I just rolled over here with you. I like 0:32:17.240 --> 0:32:20.320 I said, I like I like living. I like baking up, 0:32:20.560 --> 0:32:23.720 brushing my teeth after long nights and getting some oasis, 0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:28.520 tearing ship down. But the truth is I like living. 0:32:28.640 --> 0:32:30.840 And you know what you are, hot boy. You was 0:32:30.840 --> 0:32:33.200 talking about the gang this year. I tell him they 0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:37.160 got the red and the blue, red and red with 0:32:37.200 --> 0:32:41.760 the politics ship. So he familiar with gang coaching, you 0:32:41.800 --> 0:32:43.360 know what I mean? Just how you broke it. 0:32:44.960 --> 0:32:47.080 I hope you all heard what he just said. 0:32:47.160 --> 0:32:49.680 Man, you know he talks about it. Know you you 0:32:49.720 --> 0:32:52.640 can probably you could probably give me some insights. So 0:32:52.920 --> 0:32:55.000 when he turned his mic off and all of that, 0:32:55.120 --> 0:32:56.800 we get rid of him. Then I need to high. 0:32:57.560 --> 0:32:59.760 Don't talk about it, man. Yeah, so you let me. 0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:01.880 Every time we talked about gang stuff, he said, don't 0:33:01.880 --> 0:33:03.040 talk to me about gang stuff. 0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:06.800 How about the gang you're in out there in politics? Yeah, sious, 0:33:07.080 --> 0:33:09.520 like nothing says it right it. 0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:17.880 Is look here brown zero. They started them gangs. They 0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:22.080 separated this ship and then they started conquering. We was like, 0:33:22.960 --> 0:33:24.760 which one is you? You the blue or the real one. 0:33:25.000 --> 0:33:27.080 You was over here and was like, all right, we're 0:33:27.080 --> 0:33:29.080 gonna take all this. They're gonna take all this and 0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:32.480 then now hold on, well we want this with nah. 0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:37.920 So then y'all politics spilled over into us. It was like, well, ship, 0:33:37.960 --> 0:33:40.000 we're gonna go get the motherfuckers and bring them over 0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:41.600 here and have them go to work, and this ship 0:33:41.720 --> 0:33:44.120 woo woo dann. You had to like, na, we want 0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:45.680 to free them, Like hell no, we don't want to 0:33:45.720 --> 0:33:50.320 freem Like, well, we're gonna put up what's the prison 0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:53.400 up there in New York where they started? So you 0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:56.760 was talking in sentems with the the how to get 0:33:57.080 --> 0:34:00.640 the gualla for the what you call them inmate nam 0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:04.480 incarcerated incarcerat so how you get to get the guala 0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:06.360 for them? It was like, well, ship, if we go 0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:09.120 out and we catch all of them, then we just 0:34:09.920 --> 0:34:11.880 gonna get it up here on the front end for 0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:13.560 bringing them. Then we're gonna get it on the back 0:34:13.640 --> 0:34:17.840 end because we're gonna send them back down. So y'all, 0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:21.640 the whole gang. You fear me though, the damn y'all, 0:34:21.719 --> 0:34:23.640 that's crazy when you say it like that, because then 0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:26.319 you start looking at individuals that look like me, and 0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:33.880 then it's like we're product. Fuck wheretty sick motherfuckers that 0:34:34.000 --> 0:34:39.200 be thinking like this to be doing that type of ships. 0:34:39.960 --> 0:34:41.719 You should then you're angry, man. 0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:49.480 I know, politician, but I need to get one of them. 0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:52.640 Now you're getting in the deeper conversations about it. And 0:34:53.880 --> 0:34:56.880 there's nothing more true about the system. That it is 0:34:56.960 --> 0:35:04.440 better to be rich and guilty than then poor and innocent. 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:08.959 Is a damn fact. Rich and guilty, you're better off 0:35:09.040 --> 0:35:12.440 than poor and innocent. And that's a fuck ub system. 0:35:13.280 --> 0:35:16.920 And that is perpetuated and it has been for decades 0:35:16.960 --> 0:35:18.120 and decades, not everywhere. 0:35:18.120 --> 0:35:18.880 I'm not naive. 0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:21.400 I'm not casting as persions on people trapped in this 0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:24.000 damned system, but it is a system that has evolved 0:35:24.040 --> 0:35:27.520 over time. You had, I mean, we have vestiges of 0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:30.960 slavery here in the prison system. We had convictly seen 0:35:31.040 --> 0:35:34.200 after eighteen sixty convict leasing, where they were literally taking 0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:37.800 the incarcerated and folks in the private sector were basically 0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:41.759 getting them for ten cents an hour, and literally the 0:35:41.800 --> 0:35:44.200 prisons were making money off the backs of folks that 0:35:44.280 --> 0:35:47.680 otherwise were previously enslaved. I mean there's serious stuff, segregation 0:35:47.760 --> 0:35:50.440 and lynching, everything that's gone on for decades and decades 0:35:50.440 --> 0:35:54.319 have been institutionalized. And I hate when these assholes, these 0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:58.000 politicians that aren't aproximate to anything, never been in systems 0:35:58.040 --> 0:36:00.759 like this, never been in communities where you probably start 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:03.319 talking about all this, they don't know what they're talking about. 0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:06.600 I'm saying, if they just serve their community, right, this 0:36:06.760 --> 0:36:10.200 is the thing about the politician, like, if they there 0:36:10.239 --> 0:36:13.799 to serve the community, and shit, I really just be 0:36:13.880 --> 0:36:16.960 seeing them just go stack up coins and then they 0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:19.359 just mobbing, like you feel me? I know, we don't, 0:36:19.760 --> 0:36:21.600 you know what I mean, we don't. We don't talk 0:36:21.640 --> 0:36:24.000 about dog. That's what we're gonna We're just gonna call 0:36:24.080 --> 0:36:27.040 him dog or folks. But you know what I mean. 0:36:27.080 --> 0:36:31.040 I heard him say like, if y'all wan't fucking change change, 0:36:31.160 --> 0:36:33.919 want me to pay tax, change the laws, but you're 0:36:33.960 --> 0:36:37.879 not gonna do that because it's gonna affect you. Feel 0:36:37.880 --> 0:36:40.920 me though, something bigger than what y'all are willing to 0:36:40.960 --> 0:36:43.480 talk about So y'all just gonna let me say this 0:36:44.480 --> 0:36:47.279 and be like, oh, he ain't he ain't talking about shit, 0:36:47.360 --> 0:36:50.400 But ain't nobody gonna go and really looking to these 0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:53.879 tax laws that he talking about and start changing shit. 0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:56.760 Because I mean, at the end of the day, that comment, 0:36:56.880 --> 0:36:58.200 you just you know, I don't let you say a 0:36:58.239 --> 0:37:01.480 lot of shit, but I really fuck with that one, 0:37:01.520 --> 0:37:04.320 that one you tell you rich and guilty. 0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:06.440 Yeah, rich and guilty and poor in innocent. 0:37:06.960 --> 0:37:10.600 So I mean it's oftentimes it's race more than culpability. 0:37:10.600 --> 0:37:12.480 And I didn't get that was I didn't even get 0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:13.200 in the race there. 0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:16.040 I was talking about wealth, but then we get into 0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:19.400 race and that becomes more of a factor than culpability 0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:21.440 in terms of sentencing. And it's I don't think this, 0:37:21.560 --> 0:37:23.759 we know this, This is not this is it is 0:37:23.840 --> 0:37:25.960 like that the guy we just met, he said, this 0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:26.840 is just math. 0:37:27.440 --> 0:37:29.640 It's it's just fact. It's a fact. 0:37:30.080 --> 0:37:33.560 Yeah, and you right now, this is why I'm this. 0:37:33.560 --> 0:37:36.160 This shit is just came right on time. Man, I'm black. 0:37:39.160 --> 0:37:41.319 Because the thing is, like I was telling you, like 0:37:42.040 --> 0:37:44.719 that was an opportunity and it didn't come from me. 0:37:45.200 --> 0:37:47.280 It came from somebody who's been in here for twenty 0:37:47.320 --> 0:37:50.400 seven years, and he gave you the same ism that 0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:53.479 I gave you when we was hollering. So you see 0:37:53.520 --> 0:37:57.160 that from twenty seven years ago when he was outside, 0:37:57.440 --> 0:37:59.680 it's the same shit probably where he looking at it 0:37:59.719 --> 0:38:01.759 like it's turned up a little more. And what he 0:38:01.840 --> 0:38:04.400 was talking about the fact that I got a little 0:38:04.400 --> 0:38:06.600 bit of that was if I was outside, I could 0:38:06.680 --> 0:38:09.319 run down to the rect Center where I didn't need 0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:12.160 no sign up or nothing. I was a kid, Hey, 0:38:12.200 --> 0:38:14.800 come in here, you know deeds to play wool whoop, 0:38:14.840 --> 0:38:17.560 and you do something wrong, you get your ass whooped there, 0:38:17.640 --> 0:38:20.279 and then I'm gonna call your house or take you 0:38:20.320 --> 0:38:22.440 home to your mama, and then you're gonna get another 0:38:22.480 --> 0:38:26.319 ass whooping there. That sense of community, that sense of 0:38:26.320 --> 0:38:29.520 community is lost now that is no longer there. 0:38:30.840 --> 0:38:31.880 That's I hear you. 0:38:32.080 --> 0:38:34.680 That's that's that's a that's a problem. But it just 0:38:34.719 --> 0:38:37.040 sounded like to the point when I think about it, 0:38:37.080 --> 0:38:41.400 in y'all community, you feel me, y'all, don't worry about 0:38:41.440 --> 0:38:44.520 no type of ship like that because everything else. 0:38:44.520 --> 0:38:46.279 I mean, we don't. I mean, to be honest with you, 0:38:46.480 --> 0:38:49.040 we've been blessed and it's not right. 0:38:49.120 --> 0:38:51.400 I'm not sure like it's a good or a bad thing. 0:38:51.440 --> 0:38:55.160 I'm just saying as far as are like problems, right, 0:38:55.760 --> 0:39:00.760 this is a huge issue going home not knowing if 0:39:00.920 --> 0:39:06.799 tonight I'm going eat And that's just like that's serious though, right, 0:39:07.360 --> 0:39:09.799 because you think about when you come home, like yeah, 0:39:09.840 --> 0:39:14.240 I just had school or whatever, like damn, moms ain't here. Fuck, 0:39:14.440 --> 0:39:18.480 we ain't got no the lights ain't on. Damn. I 0:39:18.640 --> 0:39:21.279 just hope and just pray that it's gonna be at 0:39:21.360 --> 0:39:24.480 least a peanut butter sandwich or a syrup soundwich or 0:39:24.880 --> 0:39:27.160 you feel me though, I hope it's some spam in 0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:31.680 a like and you come home to not team your 0:39:31.760 --> 0:39:35.760 stomach started doing that, putting that hole on you, choking 0:39:35.800 --> 0:39:37.840 the shit out you, like, what the hold on? I 0:39:37.880 --> 0:39:44.640 can't I'm about to die. I gotta survive what I'm 0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:48.640 gonna do. I'm a kid. Ain't nobody there ain't nobody 0:39:48.640 --> 0:39:51.360 to say, hey, look, hold on, fin the you know 0:39:51.400 --> 0:39:54.440 what I mean, make this wish sandwich? You fear me though, 0:39:54.600 --> 0:39:59.759 or whatever, And it's now I gotta go outside and 0:39:59.760 --> 0:40:03.440 get something to eat. How I don't know, But what 0:40:03.560 --> 0:40:08.120 I seen or what I heard, and that one home 0:40:08.160 --> 0:40:11.719 rey night leads you into a situation like this was 0:40:12.719 --> 0:40:16.400 I didn't know. I just wanted a piece of his 0:40:16.520 --> 0:40:19.319 chicken and he turned and I By the. 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:21.000 Way, it's it's such a powerful thing to say. 0:40:21.040 --> 0:40:23.040 And most people in the world and everything about that, 0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:24.440 they think, why this guy do this? 0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:25.319 What happened here? 0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:26.400 They have no idea that. 0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:34.040 Board, right, and you looking at that paperwork. The paperwork 0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:37.600 ain't gonna say that. It's not gonna say that, this 0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:41.040 is why this kid was here and did what. He's 0:40:41.120 --> 0:40:42.880 not gonna say that. And then you're looking at that 0:40:43.000 --> 0:40:45.640 paper and I'm not saying you personally, but they get 0:40:45.680 --> 0:40:47.680 that paper and they look at that name and it's 0:40:47.880 --> 0:40:50.120 I throw that motherfucker. Or if they get that paper 0:40:50.120 --> 0:40:52.360 they look at that picture and they throw that motherfucker. 0:40:52.400 --> 0:40:54.560 Or they get that paperwork and they look at the 0:40:54.600 --> 0:40:58.120 black and white on it in this it won't say that. 0:40:58.920 --> 0:41:00.920 But how do we get to it? Explain that? And 0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:04.239 then from the ship that do really do be going 0:41:04.320 --> 0:41:07.600 on to who is a fucked up situation? 0:41:07.920 --> 0:41:10.360 Well, I mean you're right, I mean. 0:41:11.800 --> 0:41:16.319 The file I get is everything that happens after that, right, 0:41:16.719 --> 0:41:20.080 and I guess it's just that's the lesson you know 0:41:20.440 --> 0:41:22.759 you can It's it's not what happens, it's what you 0:41:22.840 --> 0:41:25.120 do with what happens that determine your fate in future. 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:28.799 And it's it's everything that happened. It's the folks that 0:41:28.920 --> 0:41:33.040 will survive and thrive on the outside are folks that 0:41:33.200 --> 0:41:35.480 understand that I can't make up for the past. I'm 0:41:35.480 --> 0:41:38.480 not the worst thing I ever did. Just because you 0:41:38.520 --> 0:41:42.400 know I stole something doesn't mean I'm a thief, doesn't. 0:41:42.080 --> 0:41:43.360 Mean I am a thief. 0:41:43.880 --> 0:41:44.040 Uh. 0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:46.680 And those that go on a journey of discovery and 0:41:46.719 --> 0:41:49.799 they can demonstrate that, those are the folks that that's 0:41:49.800 --> 0:41:52.160 what I read, and that's the journey. 0:41:51.920 --> 0:41:52.920 That I want to support. 0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:57.359 And then the work beyond this conversation is the work 0:41:57.400 --> 0:41:59.160 about how do I see a different future? 0:41:59.400 --> 0:42:02.040 How do I these things? From the beginning, And I 0:42:02.040 --> 0:42:02.479 don't want. 0:42:02.400 --> 0:42:05.400 To even bore you with the bullshit politicking or politics 0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:08.680 of pre natal goddamn care or zero to three or 0:42:08.719 --> 0:42:12.960 early head start or childcare or high quality tutoring and 0:42:13.080 --> 0:42:16.759 mentorship and addressing learning disabilities and all the bullshit that 0:42:16.920 --> 0:42:19.480 is real. Where we got to begin at the beginning 0:42:19.520 --> 0:42:22.719 to address these cycles of violence, ignorance, and disease. But 0:42:23.480 --> 0:42:25.440 both of those things have to happen. But the thing 0:42:25.440 --> 0:42:28.400 we're trying to control for here is what we are 0:42:28.440 --> 0:42:32.640 responsible for while people are here. And this California modelman 0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:35.360 is taking the best ideas from around the rest of 0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:38.239 the world and across this country and bringing the bear 0:42:38.400 --> 0:42:40.680 and one of the coolest and most amazing things for me, 0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:43.200 that's revelatory. And I hope you appreciate this, Doug and 0:42:43.280 --> 0:42:47.880 Marshaun is we're actually in quite literally one of the 0:42:47.920 --> 0:42:52.799 great rehabilitation programs in American history. What San Quentin News 0:42:52.880 --> 0:42:56.080 is represented to inmates here for years and years and years, 0:42:56.280 --> 0:42:58.719 and the opportunity. I remember we were here just a 0:42:58.719 --> 0:43:00.799 few months ago and there was a kid who said, 0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:04.239 all is ever since he got into the system, his 0:43:04.520 --> 0:43:08.120 dream was to get into this room, he said, and 0:43:08.440 --> 0:43:10.759 I swear to God true story. We were sitting he 0:43:10.880 --> 0:43:12.959 was right behind me and he's sitting there and said, 0:43:13.080 --> 0:43:14.200 you know what I finally got here. 0:43:14.200 --> 0:43:15.279 I said, that's amazing. Goes. 0:43:15.280 --> 0:43:17.319 No, you know what was amazing is when I had 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:19.839 my byline on San quent News and I said, that's 0:43:19.880 --> 0:43:22.240 amazing goes, no, no, you know it was really amazing, 0:43:22.520 --> 0:43:25.759 he says. When I called my mom and she got 0:43:25.760 --> 0:43:27.719 a copy of it, and she said the words I 0:43:27.840 --> 0:43:30.440 never heard her say in my life, true story, I'm 0:43:30.480 --> 0:43:34.120 proud of you. And he said that just it brought 0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:36.920 me it, just I'm proud of you. 0:43:36.840 --> 0:43:39.439 Do you know what what's crazy is Like I'm saying, 0:43:40.120 --> 0:43:43.799 like I've been up here to visit my pops and shit. Right, 0:43:44.440 --> 0:43:46.680 but as I started to like think about it, memories 0:43:46.680 --> 0:43:48.879 and shit like that ship that you know, I don't 0:43:48.880 --> 0:43:51.279 want to hold in here like I thought about it, 0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:55.600 I said, noam you know what, I've never heard my 0:43:55.600 --> 0:44:01.480 my pops tell my mother I love you. And then 0:44:01.560 --> 0:44:04.560 I can't even remember if he ever even told me 0:44:04.640 --> 0:44:06.640 some shit like that, you feel me, So it would 0:44:06.640 --> 0:44:08.480 be the little wins like you feel me when you 0:44:08.520 --> 0:44:11.200 get him, like you gotta stack them motherfuckers up? So 0:44:12.400 --> 0:44:17.319 is he here? No, it's not okay, say shit, I 0:44:17.360 --> 0:44:19.720 want to get that man out. What's having my boy? 0:44:20.040 --> 0:44:20.320 Right? 0:44:20.520 --> 0:44:22.879 You feel me? But you're like that be a part 0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:26.160 of the like the healing process. Yeah, that's where it started, 0:44:26.360 --> 0:44:28.319 Like ooh shit, I felt something like what the fuck 0:44:28.480 --> 0:44:31.920 just happened. Oh that didn't feel right, but it felt good. 0:44:33.080 --> 0:44:34.520 Oh what the fuck is that? 0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:34.840 Like? 0:44:35.000 --> 0:44:37.279 Get that shit off me, typ hold on. But I 0:44:37.360 --> 0:44:39.320 liked it though a little bit. Let me try to 0:44:39.320 --> 0:44:45.759 figure out what's going on. So then those kind of programs, right, Yeah. 0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:49.160 I mean that that hit me in a different way 0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:50.960 because all of a sudden, I mean, that guy's on 0:44:51.000 --> 0:44:51.680 the path. 0:44:51.800 --> 0:44:54.000 And how old was he a recovery? He's a kid, bro, 0:44:54.120 --> 0:44:55.160 he was nineteen twenty and. 0:44:55.120 --> 0:44:57.600 He's yeah, he's a kid if he was twenty two three, 0:44:57.680 --> 0:44:59.920 I mean, the kid and he's gonna be here probably 0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:02.520 a couple of decades, or he may be here the 0:45:02.560 --> 0:45:04.640 rest of his goddamn life, may die here if he 0:45:04.680 --> 0:45:07.760 doesn't get his ship together. But he's on a different pathway, 0:45:08.120 --> 0:45:10.640 And there's power in those words. Man power in the 0:45:10.640 --> 0:45:13.880 wordst then what his mom never said to him and 0:45:14.160 --> 0:45:15.600 like and here he is sharing. 0:45:15.360 --> 0:45:16.680 It openly to a bunch of folks. 0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:19.040 Man, So it goes to your I mean what you 0:45:19.120 --> 0:45:21.799 just said about your pops, your mom, those things, it's 0:45:22.120 --> 0:45:24.360 a those are powerful, powerful words. 0:45:24.760 --> 0:45:28.200 Yeah, all right, that's how you going. 0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:29.759 We're going to death row. 0:45:30.320 --> 0:45:32.600 Let's go to death row. 0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:48.920 Wait a second, I'm coming round with that. Yeah, get 0:45:48.920 --> 0:45:49.440 get old. 0:45:49.320 --> 0:45:53.240 Get your ass over here, Jesus Christ litterally, my bucking 0:45:53.280 --> 0:45:54.120 little league guy. 0:45:54.640 --> 0:46:00.319 I told you, I told you it's good, all right? Yeah, absolutely, yeah, 0:46:00.360 --> 0:46:00.920 I woke up. 0:46:01.000 --> 0:46:04.600 That's the best thing I can do. Thanks. 0:46:04.600 --> 0:46:07.960 What so how what? How long you been here now? 0:46:08.000 --> 0:46:09.399 Two years now too? Yeah? 0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:10.680 And you were aware before. 0:46:10.800 --> 0:46:13.000 Season nough for two and a half years, and James 0:46:13.000 --> 0:46:14.040 sounds like three weeks. 0:46:14.120 --> 0:46:17.680 And then I was here before that for almost ten years. Jesus, 0:46:18.000 --> 0:46:19.200 So how much more time. 0:46:18.960 --> 0:46:21.200 Would I go back in FORO in? Two years? 0:46:22.040 --> 0:46:22.560 In two years? 0:46:22.719 --> 0:46:23.040 All right? 0:46:23.080 --> 0:46:23.919 So that's around the corner. 0:46:23.960 --> 0:46:27.920 And you're senior dougka Hey, tell Doug how we know 0:46:28.000 --> 0:46:28.399 each other? 0:46:28.560 --> 0:46:28.960 Oh yeah? 0:46:29.280 --> 0:46:30.440 Really well literally? 0:46:30.800 --> 0:46:30.960 Uh? 0:46:31.040 --> 0:46:32.960 Ten season twin city lit. 0:46:33.320 --> 0:46:33.440 Bro. 0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:34.920 Now, let me ask you a question. I'm telling you 0:46:35.000 --> 0:46:37.200 right now. He was a decent player, but you were 0:46:37.280 --> 0:46:38.920 much better than he was. I can tell right now. 0:46:38.920 --> 0:46:41.319 All right, Hey, he did all right till until he 0:46:41.400 --> 0:46:42.880 ran into Kirk Yaeling and broke his arm. 0:46:43.040 --> 0:46:44.920 Well there was that, See, Jesus, I mean a guy 0:46:44.920 --> 0:46:48.320 who remembers Kurt yealing, I'll feel the sacond based patient. 0:46:48.600 --> 0:46:51.920 Okay, Uh, he was actually one year ahead of men? 0:46:52.000 --> 0:46:53.759 Would you be could you have a chance keep going 0:46:53.760 --> 0:46:54.680 a plane. 0:46:54.760 --> 0:46:58.000 In high school and college? Yeah? The choices I made right? 0:46:58.200 --> 0:47:01.400 But but but when did you start making the crazy choices? 0:47:01.719 --> 0:47:02.560 Quick them? Baseball? 0:47:03.440 --> 0:47:03.720 Really? 0:47:04.080 --> 0:47:06.120 So these I went from hanging out with guys like 0:47:06.200 --> 0:47:08.279 you and others, You're hanging out with guys. 0:47:08.000 --> 0:47:09.279 Like, hey, what do you want to do? Let's go 0:47:09.360 --> 0:47:10.040 get right and. 0:47:10.840 --> 0:47:11.960 What are you in here for? 0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:13.400 Btrike? 0:47:13.719 --> 0:47:15.719 Okay, yeah, so you're not You're not getting out, You're 0:47:15.760 --> 0:47:16.319 you're right now. 0:47:16.440 --> 0:47:18.919 No, he's mean, he's coming up from eating right. 0:47:18.800 --> 0:47:22.160 Now twenty eight and Jesus, I got a five years 0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:23.600 now just for a prison Davor. 0:47:23.760 --> 0:47:26.879 Let me ask questions as the crew you have back 0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:29.359 in the day, the family are they do they? 0:47:29.400 --> 0:47:31.040 Are they involving you now you see him? 0:47:31.360 --> 0:47:33.080 Or is this your family here now? 0:47:33.200 --> 0:47:34.160 Or what's your family? 0:47:34.480 --> 0:47:38.319 Mainly here? My friends are here. I've been in throughout life, 0:47:38.360 --> 0:47:39.560 and I'll just struggle in here. 0:47:39.920 --> 0:47:42.839 Uh but no, because when I first felt there wasn't 0:47:42.880 --> 0:47:44.760 a lot of communications. 0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:47.399 The lines are so expensive at the time, and then 0:47:47.480 --> 0:47:48.439 everyone has their own life. 0:47:48.480 --> 0:47:50.080 You know, they're you know, they're in the mid twenties, 0:47:50.120 --> 0:47:52.000 they're trying to start a family in their careers, you know, 0:47:52.320 --> 0:47:54.480 and they're still trying to fun. 0:47:54.719 --> 0:47:59.120 He knows Hillary, you know Hillary, Okay, okay, crazy, that's crazy, 0:47:59.160 --> 0:47:59.520 little man. 0:47:59.719 --> 0:48:02.560 So it was the drugs that sort of left that. 0:48:02.719 --> 0:48:05.799 Oh absolutely, absolutely, you know, it was uh, you know, 0:48:05.920 --> 0:48:08.879 everything once I quit playing ball. And that's that's to 0:48:08.920 --> 0:48:11.000 tell these guys because now I'm coaching on the team. 0:48:11.160 --> 0:48:15.759 Oh you're coaching mentally? Is sitting there? You're looking You're 0:48:16.000 --> 0:48:17.120 played right there over the La Soul. 0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:18.640 I mean, I mean, is it like you're like, oh 0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:21.200 my god, it played little right there and now I'm 0:48:21.280 --> 0:48:21.640 right here. 0:48:22.000 --> 0:48:25.360 Yes, everywhere I look. I have a memory. Yeah. But 0:48:25.400 --> 0:48:29.439 at the same time, yeah, it's knowing that I'm sober. 0:48:29.760 --> 0:48:32.680 You know, I went to school five. I mean, he's 0:48:32.719 --> 0:48:33.840 my house ten minutes. 0:48:34.640 --> 0:48:36.080 The house is about seven minutes. 0:48:37.680 --> 0:48:38.759 I appreciate you keep going. 0:48:38.920 --> 0:48:42.239 What was it a roundable red table around round table pizza? 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:45.680 Oh yeah, that was our team right on. 0:48:46.200 --> 0:48:48.920 Yeah that in the court Madero one in the court there. 0:48:48.960 --> 0:48:51.600 But I guess they put a bank there or something exactly. 0:48:51.600 --> 0:48:52.279 There's a bank there. 0:48:52.400 --> 0:48:52.600 Yeah. 0:48:53.000 --> 0:48:55.799 Yeah, we're getting old. Yeah, it's good to see you again. 0:48:55.840 --> 0:48:57.640 You guys get to go take care. 0:48:58.200 --> 0:49:01.320 Good you look, I mean, the only thing that the 0:49:01.400 --> 0:49:04.560 only way this thing works is you guys make it work, man, 0:49:05.120 --> 0:49:08.920 And the whole idea is I mean, honestly, I'm not exaggerating. 0:49:08.920 --> 0:49:11.600 If we can make what's about to be unveiled on 0:49:11.640 --> 0:49:14.799 the other side of that wall and just tenexting the programming, 0:49:15.360 --> 0:49:17.080 and if if we can see the results of that, 0:49:17.160 --> 0:49:19.800 then we're gonna spread it in every damn prison and 0:49:19.920 --> 0:49:21.000 it's a big goddamn deal. 0:49:21.120 --> 0:49:22.360 Do you think it's going to be picked up by 0:49:22.400 --> 0:49:22.960 other states? 0:49:23.000 --> 0:49:25.319 That's the whole idea because everything California does. 0:49:25.320 --> 0:49:29.279 Man, already, wait, thank you, thank you, appreciate it. 0:49:33.440 --> 0:49:37.120 I ain't gonna happen, but I appreciate you, Man, President, 0:49:37.200 --> 0:49:37.960 I appreciate it. 0:49:38.400 --> 0:49:40.040 Thank you for giving us hope. My name is just 0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:42.480 in my little thanks for everything you do. For appreciate man, 0:49:42.600 --> 0:49:45.680 Thank you. Uh, we got a lot of work to 0:49:45.680 --> 0:49:46.120 do here, bro. 0:49:46.160 --> 0:49:48.080 I've been here in my whole dull life, and I've 0:49:48.080 --> 0:49:49.200 never had this much hope. 0:49:49.440 --> 0:49:51.760 I love it in the future for us that's incarcerated people. 0:49:52.040 --> 0:49:52.879 So it's a lot of that. 0:49:52.760 --> 0:49:53.839 Comes from you and the work you do. 0:49:54.000 --> 0:49:56.719 Appreciate it, brother, that means a lot. Keep it up, brother, 0:49:58.080 --> 0:50:06.759 Keep it up, guys. I'm good brother. 0:50:06.800 --> 0:50:07.279 How you doing. 0:50:08.040 --> 0:50:09.160 You're blessed. I love that. 0:50:09.280 --> 0:50:09.759 I like that. 0:50:09.760 --> 0:50:13.040 That's a good attitude. Take care of man Ward. 0:50:13.080 --> 0:50:15.200 How many people were here at one time when this 0:50:15.239 --> 0:50:18.760 thing was fifty twenty years ago, in in death row. 0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:21.879 So we had close to seven hundred, believe seven hundred 0:50:21.880 --> 0:50:23.640 people on death row when I when I got here, 0:50:23.719 --> 0:50:26.839 we had uh we have five over five hundred on 0:50:26.880 --> 0:50:29.279 death row on death row and they've all been moved 0:50:29.280 --> 0:50:29.800 out since. 0:50:30.920 --> 0:50:32.680 Was that the biggest of any state, any state? 0:50:34.840 --> 0:50:35.640 I would say yes. 0:50:35.680 --> 0:50:38.040 I don't know though those data numbers for sure, but 0:50:38.040 --> 0:50:41.399 I would because as much as we have, you bro. 0:50:42.840 --> 0:50:45.239 And how many people, how many people on a year, 0:50:45.320 --> 0:50:47.000 on a year basis were put to death. 0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:50.080 The people's process is very wrong, so it wouldn't be yearly. 0:50:50.520 --> 0:50:53.400 It would actually be sometimes five. 0:50:53.280 --> 0:50:57.560 Years, five years, So Doug, over the course of just 0:50:57.600 --> 0:51:01.439 the last couple couple months, they've I mean not even 0:51:01.480 --> 0:51:03.720 just a couple of months, I mean over the course 0:51:03.760 --> 0:51:07.200 of the last couple of years, they've been decommissioning death 0:51:07.280 --> 0:51:10.719 row and doing a risk assessment for everybody aside who 0:51:10.760 --> 0:51:11.239 comes off. 0:51:11.960 --> 0:51:14.480 But this thing when we start it was completely fooled up. 0:51:14.600 --> 0:51:14.880 Wow. 0:51:15.080 --> 0:51:18.200 And you know these are you can see these single cells. 0:51:18.680 --> 0:51:20.000 Anytime someone came out. 0:51:19.880 --> 0:51:20.279 Of the cell. 0:51:20.960 --> 0:51:24.640 You can see the cages that they came in right 0:51:24.680 --> 0:51:27.080 over here. We'll go to the yard and you can 0:51:27.080 --> 0:51:28.400 tell me how great that is. 0:51:29.640 --> 0:51:32.720 Yeah, you can appreciate the yard differently. 0:51:34.120 --> 0:51:35.440 Yes, Scott Peterson was here. 0:51:35.960 --> 0:51:37.560 We actually have another horse. 0:51:37.560 --> 0:51:41.560 Segregation was actually iron came up and honor that will 0:51:41.640 --> 0:51:44.839 get it. They were programmers, so they would actually it's 0:51:44.840 --> 0:51:47.080 another building on top and their yard was on top 0:51:47.120 --> 0:51:49.920 of that building, and they were considered. 0:51:49.440 --> 0:51:51.520 Honored, meaning like they were. 0:51:51.520 --> 0:51:53.160 They didn't have any disciplinary issues. 0:51:53.239 --> 0:51:57.000 Oh god, I gotta work your way up there. I 0:51:57.000 --> 0:51:59.000 think the most no bullshit. 0:51:59.120 --> 0:52:01.200 The first time I came in, the most alarming thing 0:52:01.360 --> 0:52:05.360 was not what is it behind you? It was just 0:52:05.360 --> 0:52:08.239 seeing people in these things, wow, and going what the 0:52:08.239 --> 0:52:11.359 hell is this? You know, it's like a I mean 0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:13.400 that's this is these by the way, these are all 0:52:13.440 --> 0:52:15.840 going right, they're all going yeah the outside. 0:52:15.880 --> 0:52:20.600 I yeah, we'll show these guys. You have me selling 0:52:20.680 --> 0:52:22.000 you guys want to go past each other? 0:52:22.040 --> 0:52:23.879 You go back, you're saying, you're saying there be two 0:52:23.880 --> 0:52:24.399 people in these. 0:52:24.640 --> 0:52:27.040 Yeah, so it's one person on top of person on bottom. 0:52:27.040 --> 0:52:29.360 So if we share this cell with somebody else, whenever 0:52:29.440 --> 0:52:29.879 I need to. 0:52:29.800 --> 0:52:30.920 Go to the back of the cell and we go 0:52:31.040 --> 0:52:33.120 back to back, so Gavin would put his chest up 0:52:33.160 --> 0:52:33.759 against the rack. 0:52:34.000 --> 0:52:36.319 I put my chest up against the wall, and we like, 0:52:36.719 --> 0:52:39.399 not back to back, going back to that way, that way, 0:52:39.800 --> 0:52:40.239 you know what I mean? 0:52:40.719 --> 0:52:41.960 Yeah, back to the bay. 0:52:43.000 --> 0:52:44.640 So it's just the size of the cells in the 0:52:44.680 --> 0:52:46.239 main in the part of the prison tent. 0:52:46.440 --> 0:52:48.719 Yeah, this is the same size. 0:52:47.440 --> 0:52:49.160 Yeah, pretty much. 0:52:49.480 --> 0:52:52.319 You got another the buildings doesn't have that bar right 0:52:52.360 --> 0:52:53.399 there against the wall. 0:52:54.480 --> 0:52:55.120 Wow. Yeah. 0:52:55.960 --> 0:52:58.279 These were all single cells, right, I mean from death row. 0:52:59.000 --> 0:53:03.080 Yes, they were all sulf Now you make someone have one, right, 0:53:06.840 --> 0:53:07.640 It's funny with me. 0:53:07.840 --> 0:53:08.520 If people were here. 0:53:08.520 --> 0:53:12.080 Till win one year, till a people once ago, weeks ago, 0:53:12.640 --> 0:53:13.000 they were just. 0:53:13.040 --> 0:53:15.520 Here literally, and some people went to another and two 0:53:15.719 --> 0:53:17.400 together and they ended up selling out to guess it. 0:53:18.440 --> 0:53:20.520 Okay, but I want to I want to show him 0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:24.920 some of them. Yeah, here's a more seeing Doug, go 0:53:25.000 --> 0:53:25.560 to the chapel. 0:53:27.480 --> 0:53:32.480 Yeah, please the chapel. Wow, chaplin right there. But I 0:53:32.520 --> 0:53:36.399 thought this was just this was just from death row. Yeah, 0:53:36.960 --> 0:53:40.080 we're just you know, looking up with the bomb wire 0:53:40.120 --> 0:53:40.520 and everything. 0:53:41.640 --> 0:53:41.879 Wow. 0:53:42.080 --> 0:53:45.400 Yeah, and they and they would Chap will be right 0:53:45.440 --> 0:53:51.600 there right, And this should be once twice a day, 0:53:53.400 --> 0:53:55.759 once a week, once a week, once a week, that's it. 0:53:56.560 --> 0:53:57.160 Once a week. 0:53:57.400 --> 0:53:57.600 Yeah. 0:53:57.719 --> 0:54:00.560 Well, and then you probably had your your most talkative 0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:04.560 and may was literally right there in the corner, right. 0:54:04.800 --> 0:54:05.000 Yeah. 0:54:05.560 --> 0:54:07.839 But yeah, if you want these these these cells when 0:54:07.880 --> 0:54:12.239 they're in the Wow, this is crazy. Yeah, no, it's uh, 0:54:13.239 --> 0:54:17.080 the first time I came in here, the most surreal thing, honestly, 0:54:17.120 --> 0:54:19.840 the most serial things. How many people recognize me, like 0:54:20.160 --> 0:54:22.719 almost without exception, and then when they heard your name 0:54:22.760 --> 0:54:26.280 and then just to hear your voices up top, you forget, 0:54:26.440 --> 0:54:26.600 you know. 0:54:26.600 --> 0:54:28.920 I mean, you know, being a mayor being out there 0:54:28.960 --> 0:54:30.640 in public. I mean, that's that's that's. 0:54:30.560 --> 0:54:31.239 Just it was to me. 0:54:31.400 --> 0:54:33.800 It was a sort of eery experience. 0:54:34.000 --> 0:54:36.200 And again, did the attorneys come in and eating these 0:54:36.239 --> 0:54:37.960 guys in here or is there another area where the 0:54:38.000 --> 0:54:38.800 attorneys come. 0:54:38.680 --> 0:54:40.600 In and they would go to our visiting area a 0:54:40.680 --> 0:54:43.479 visitor Yeah, but but so this all. 0:54:43.600 --> 0:54:46.759 At least for the interim, they're gonna take the these 0:54:47.000 --> 0:54:48.560 these out and then they're cleaning them in. 0:54:48.600 --> 0:54:51.040 You're in the rites feels all my cleaner, Yeah. 0:54:51.480 --> 0:54:54.480 Clean up, and the mills start bringing decompressing the general population, 0:54:54.920 --> 0:54:57.400 getting rid of some double bunks and bringing people in here. 0:54:57.680 --> 0:54:59.279 Oh, you've put prisoners back into here. 0:54:59.320 --> 0:55:01.160 We're gonna redo though, We're gonna, we're gonna if we 0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:03.160 want to change the image. You don't want to associate 0:55:03.160 --> 0:55:06.840 it with what it was. But the single cell is 0:55:06.920 --> 0:55:10.600 very important to a lot of these individuals because, like 0:55:10.680 --> 0:55:13.839 we were talking about, you know, there's some scenarios where 0:55:13.880 --> 0:55:15.319 you really can't choose it, you as. 0:55:15.880 --> 0:55:18.320 We have even these in the same size as the 0:55:18.560 --> 0:55:21.440 main block. Yes, right, two people in the additions all 0:55:21.440 --> 0:55:24.480 there's no business. They're all the same communits correct to 0:55:24.840 --> 0:55:27.480 swe no sweets. 0:55:28.480 --> 0:55:29.759 I mean there are some things we can do. 0:55:29.840 --> 0:55:31.640 I think you saw the larger ones down there. 0:55:32.040 --> 0:55:34.320 You know, we want to make kitchen ads and areas 0:55:34.320 --> 0:55:36.640 where they we'll get you know, microwaving through. We're gonna 0:55:36.680 --> 0:55:39.200 do different things to normalize. 0:55:40.280 --> 0:55:41.719 Good time there. 0:55:41.760 --> 0:55:43.719 We walked through there, so we're gonna just quickly show 0:55:43.719 --> 0:55:44.480 them into the yard. 0:55:45.719 --> 0:55:49.480 Yes, they've evolved a long time. They're currently called individual 0:55:49.600 --> 0:55:52.240 exercise guards. It's proper. 0:55:52.840 --> 0:55:54.840 But as you can see, it's pretty much just do so. 0:55:54.960 --> 0:55:58.239 For the condemned inmates that come here for their quote 0:55:58.320 --> 0:56:01.560 unquote exercise. But we're read of Marshall all this is 0:56:01.680 --> 0:56:04.960 gone and so we're gonna have this for program, for yard, 0:56:05.040 --> 0:56:08.000 for whatever else didn't move September DA. 0:56:08.480 --> 0:56:11.320 So you're gonna see, like, bro, you act like you 0:56:11.480 --> 0:56:15.880 on what's that home home renovation? Oh yeah, and this 0:56:16.080 --> 0:56:21.000 right here, this used to be my single cell incarcerated area. 0:56:21.080 --> 0:56:22.680 But I'm gonna tear it down. And I'm like, man, 0:56:22.760 --> 0:56:26.000 I'm gonna put a something right here with a gauz 0:56:26.080 --> 0:56:29.920 z bo and ship like what you're talking about? Man, 0:56:30.000 --> 0:56:31.839 you need to kick his ass up out of here. 0:56:32.760 --> 0:56:35.680 You just walking around this motherfucker like a grown man 0:56:35.840 --> 0:56:39.120 at uh Disney World or something not Disney World. 0:56:39.160 --> 0:56:43.360 Brother, this I just for years we've been talking about this. 0:56:43.480 --> 0:56:45.640 It's finally happening. It's a big deal. 0:56:45.880 --> 0:56:48.279 So do you understand what it do to me? Like 0:56:48.840 --> 0:56:53.120 I'm not like you know, I watched Ship. I see 0:56:53.200 --> 0:56:55.759 Ship and then it it fucked with me. 0:56:56.360 --> 0:56:56.840 And just so. 0:56:58.920 --> 0:57:00.640 You know what I mean, Like I don't want to 0:57:00.719 --> 0:57:03.080 keep getting reminded of that ship, Like get it. I 0:57:03.160 --> 0:57:08.120 get I get unless, but look, if we going there, 0:57:08.600 --> 0:57:12.160 me and you and the gloves, then I'll go in there. 0:57:14.320 --> 0:57:16.680 What's that? What the two of us don't mean the 0:57:16.920 --> 0:57:20.240 don't be in there with you for like forty five seconds, 0:57:21.040 --> 0:57:24.439 just me and you. You could lock the door, locked 0:57:24.480 --> 0:57:27.200 it on, give you the he is that clean? 0:57:28.560 --> 0:57:29.600 Just blackout? 0:57:29.800 --> 0:57:33.640 Damn damn grind And I wake up in Marine General Hospital. 0:57:34.400 --> 0:57:36.560 Like, no, we're gonna take you to We're gonna take 0:57:36.600 --> 0:57:42.320 you to Highland. We'll get to We'll get to the hospital. 0:57:43.880 --> 0:57:48.200 Christ full manice back down here right if you don't 0:57:48.200 --> 0:57:49.440 have to go, We're gonna you want to see the 0:57:49.480 --> 0:57:52.440 gas chamber and say, hell no, I really don't want 0:57:52.480 --> 0:57:55.560 to see that, sick ass. But who the fuck be stinking. 0:57:55.360 --> 0:57:58.120 Ship like, because it's important to understand it's not the 0:57:58.280 --> 0:58:00.360 barbaric nature of the past, So. 0:58:00.520 --> 0:58:04.480 Don't they want to write that motherfucker up right now? 0:58:05.120 --> 0:58:08.280 It's just my day that I'm here. I want to 0:58:08.280 --> 0:58:09.360 make sure that should work. 0:58:09.400 --> 0:58:10.320 It's on the outside. 0:58:10.440 --> 0:58:11.840 It's literally outside. 0:58:16.000 --> 0:58:25.680 You no my history, dude, ship, who would be making 0:58:27.120 --> 0:58:29.720 your mind even thinking? I just wonder if I just 0:58:29.800 --> 0:58:32.440 put somebody in this little place and just put on 0:58:32.520 --> 0:58:34.560 this gash in it and wonder what they would happen 0:58:34.640 --> 0:58:38.160 to him? Why would you want to do that? 0:58:38.920 --> 0:58:43.400 That's this is the ald Gaston, not when we did this. 0:58:45.000 --> 0:58:47.040 Decoration since decades. 0:58:48.720 --> 0:58:52.320 They would they would be in there and the family 0:58:52.440 --> 0:58:55.439 would be out here, and it's just the guys would 0:58:55.480 --> 0:58:55.880 come in here. 0:58:55.960 --> 0:58:56.480 They're saying it. 0:58:56.760 --> 0:58:58.439 That's some white people ship for sure. 0:58:59.640 --> 0:59:03.640 Why if we go outside, you can see the exhaust. 0:59:03.280 --> 0:59:04.720 At the the smost. 0:59:06.000 --> 0:59:07.120 History's history. 0:59:07.160 --> 0:59:12.640 Bro, No, what was the process. 0:59:13.720 --> 0:59:14.000 Today? 0:59:14.120 --> 0:59:16.080 Coming from a one other sections and somewhere. 0:59:15.840 --> 0:59:17.200 Else, they're not coming from this work. 0:59:17.600 --> 0:59:19.320 Yeah, there's a back there's a back way to come 0:59:19.360 --> 0:59:22.360 in here. So it's actually by at the end of 0:59:22.400 --> 0:59:23.560 the east block of North Block. 0:59:23.760 --> 0:59:25.080 There's access to here yet. 0:59:25.120 --> 0:59:26.200 So they were just walking down. 0:59:26.720 --> 0:59:27.880 It was like forty years ago. 0:59:27.920 --> 0:59:31.440 I think it was like the last time, so before 0:59:31.520 --> 0:59:35.320 my time. So I went actual problem because leaf injection 0:59:35.480 --> 0:59:38.000 came after, right, so that we have a leathal injection. 0:59:38.840 --> 0:59:39.920 They tried to clean it up. 0:59:40.400 --> 0:59:42.800 Try to clean it up, right, and that's been litigated 0:59:42.800 --> 0:59:49.120 because it's all the cocktails were so lenses used the 0:59:49.200 --> 0:59:50.520 victims family. 0:59:59.360 --> 0:59:59.800 Well, I got it. 0:59:59.880 --> 1:00:00.520 I gotta be honest. 1:00:00.520 --> 1:00:04.400 Gavin. I mean this right here was the weirdest part 1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:05.080 of the day man. 1:00:05.000 --> 1:00:06.880 Walking out of the gas chamber. 1:00:07.600 --> 1:00:10.040 In nineteen eighty, when I was sixteen, seventeen years old, 1:00:10.400 --> 1:00:12.320 this thing still existed. I mean, I got it's I 1:00:12.400 --> 1:00:15.080 got a weird, weird feel right now walking out of 1:00:15.120 --> 1:00:15.400 their mouth. 1:00:15.520 --> 1:00:18.320 And you should because there's dozens and dozens of people 1:00:18.560 --> 1:00:21.600 today that could be get condemned to death. And of 1:00:21.680 --> 1:00:25.360 course we're using more humane means now with leth injection, 1:00:25.480 --> 1:00:27.560 but that's just literally right next door. But the idea, 1:00:27.840 --> 1:00:30.840 the gas chamber, even leth injection, used to line people 1:00:30.920 --> 1:00:32.360 up and shoot them, hang people. 1:00:33.240 --> 1:00:36.479 So you know, there's a It don't sound a little 1:00:36.480 --> 1:00:38.720 bit strange, y'all that when y'all be talking about this, 1:00:39.240 --> 1:00:42.960 it's like the people y'all talk about, is they. 1:00:42.920 --> 1:00:45.600 Look like me disproportionate. 1:00:46.800 --> 1:00:50.560 Man, That ship is fucked up, Like that's y'all, that's. 1:00:53.280 --> 1:00:57.440 Because it's fucked moratorium, meaning I stopped it that. 1:00:57.560 --> 1:01:00.000 We would have been doing you'd have been reading about. 1:01:00.080 --> 1:01:01.960 There have been protests right outside these gates. 1:01:02.560 --> 1:01:05.440 We would quite literally put the ability to put a 1:01:05.560 --> 1:01:08.880 couple dozen or a dozen people to death. 1:01:09.480 --> 1:01:13.880 Just before this, we saw death row, which was death row, 1:01:14.400 --> 1:01:16.280 and for them to be in the cells that you 1:01:16.320 --> 1:01:17.160 couldn't even move. 1:01:17.040 --> 1:01:19.680 And then go into cages, I mean just to get 1:01:19.680 --> 1:01:20.120 to the yard. 1:01:20.280 --> 1:01:23.480 Unbelievable in terms of uh, you know, how they're living. 1:01:23.560 --> 1:01:24.840 So I applause, you for get rid of this. 1:01:25.080 --> 1:01:27.240 Well, it was the largest one in the largest one. 1:01:27.320 --> 1:01:29.840 And it's not just in America, in the entire Western hemisphere. 1:01:30.000 --> 1:01:31.840 We're one of the few countries on planet Earth, one 1:01:31.880 --> 1:01:36.720 of the few that still executes people. I mean the Yemen, 1:01:37.360 --> 1:01:42.280 in China, countries, the Western democracies have ended the death party. 1:01:43.880 --> 1:01:45.960 Nah, you know what I just thought about right now? 1:01:48.320 --> 1:01:51.680 Damn standing next to you talking like this and you say, 1:01:51.800 --> 1:01:55.680 certain shit is way bigger than just having a conversation. 1:01:56.400 --> 1:01:58.640 The motherfuckna take it and blow that shit way out 1:01:58.680 --> 1:02:02.320 of proportion. We probably should get to the point where 1:02:02.400 --> 1:02:05.280 we don't have none of that ship. I think the 1:02:05.400 --> 1:02:08.360 rehabilitation thing, we we probably need to take that shit 1:02:08.520 --> 1:02:13.400 a little bit further. We're helping then incarcerated just like that. 1:02:13.480 --> 1:02:17.280 They don't call them inmates, call them cacerated. But to 1:02:17.400 --> 1:02:19.840 help you feel me, because god, damn you think about 1:02:21.400 --> 1:02:23.400 you been saying that it's a lot now caught on 1:02:23.560 --> 1:02:27.080 to it. The humane that's it. We probably need to 1:02:27.120 --> 1:02:28.720 get more of that type of shit. Well. 1:02:29.040 --> 1:02:32.160 To hear your story, end up food in the house, Galvin, 1:02:32.160 --> 1:02:34.120 I didn't grow up that way, so you did. And 1:02:34.280 --> 1:02:36.440 and to think the choices you can make tend up 1:02:36.440 --> 1:02:39.840 in here. Life isn't fair and and the imbalances are 1:02:39.920 --> 1:02:41.840 are This is a perfect example of it. 1:02:42.000 --> 1:02:44.520 But the thing you get that it's not fair, right, 1:02:45.200 --> 1:02:50.520 But the thing is somebody implemented a system for it 1:02:50.720 --> 1:02:55.560 to be that particular way. It's just that I get 1:02:55.600 --> 1:02:57.880 the short end of the stick when it come to 1:02:57.920 --> 1:02:58.320 that shit. 1:02:59.680 --> 1:03:02.440 Is that this old fray society becomes how we behave. 1:03:02.520 --> 1:03:05.680 This has happened on our watch. This has happened on 1:03:05.880 --> 1:03:09.200 our watch. This is not someone else's problem. This is 1:03:09.320 --> 1:03:11.720 the world we have created. And so we all have 1:03:11.800 --> 1:03:13.680 some responsibility and some accountability. 1:03:14.400 --> 1:03:17.640 Yep. So when you go around for president, but I 1:03:17.800 --> 1:03:20.600 was gonna say, you gotta bring me with you. You 1:03:20.640 --> 1:03:22.840 can get you from the you feel me level talk 1:03:22.880 --> 1:03:24.880 about because we don't have your level. But then you're 1:03:24.880 --> 1:03:26.480 gonna need do you feel me level. 1:03:27.840 --> 1:03:27.880 Me? 1:03:27.920 --> 1:03:31.240 And who are we kind of talk on the level. 1:03:32.880 --> 1:03:35.720 President President about you gonna have you feel. 1:03:35.600 --> 1:03:40.640 Me speak to do you feel me? When you spoke 1:03:40.680 --> 1:03:42.960 to the you feel me? That's how I do want 1:03:42.960 --> 1:03:45.640 to say that like you as you feel mean. 1:03:45.920 --> 1:03:47.120 I want to say quick is this. 1:03:47.240 --> 1:03:50.560 I want to appreciate you because you are the new 1:03:50.680 --> 1:03:53.600 wave of this and you're not the wave that you 1:03:53.720 --> 1:03:56.560 see and you hear about whatnot where you know you're 1:03:57.280 --> 1:03:59.720 the guy in shawsh a redemption. You're these different You're 1:03:59.760 --> 1:04:01.880 doing the new way because that's what it's all about. 1:04:01.920 --> 1:04:05.240 So I appreciate this today. It was real and enlightening 1:04:05.320 --> 1:04:06.439 and scary. 1:04:07.640 --> 1:04:07.960 In the world. 1:04:08.040 --> 1:04:08.960 So I appreciate what you're doing. 1:04:09.040 --> 1:04:11.720 Because you were doing a ship. They wouldn't like, oh 1:04:11.880 --> 1:04:15.720 here it is Assholen ship. They were. It was for sure, 1:04:15.720 --> 1:04:16.280 it was different. 1:04:16.320 --> 1:04:18.240 They know you had the which is really cool to 1:04:18.240 --> 1:04:21.440 see man, because I was not expecting. 1:04:21.600 --> 1:04:22.960 But Doug, you know, also he is back. 1:04:23.080 --> 1:04:26.600 I mean the people that these folks have hurt as well. 1:04:26.840 --> 1:04:29.160 I mean, this is not about being soft on crime. 1:04:29.240 --> 1:04:32.200 This is not about absolving any responsibility. 1:04:32.320 --> 1:04:33.120 Quite the contrary. 1:04:33.720 --> 1:04:35.640 People make a mistake, they have to not only live 1:04:35.720 --> 1:04:37.640 with that, they have to pay the price for the 1:04:37.680 --> 1:04:40.800 mistake they made. But again the reality is tens of 1:04:40.920 --> 1:04:43.520 thousands of people are released every single year back into 1:04:43.560 --> 1:04:46.160 your neighborhood. Do you want them to come back angry, 1:04:46.600 --> 1:04:49.840 with a chip on their shoulder, less productive and constructive, 1:04:49.880 --> 1:04:52.440 more likely to commit a crime again, or take the 1:04:52.560 --> 1:04:56.200 time to humanize and address the underlying reasons why they're 1:04:56.200 --> 1:04:59.160 so broken in the first place. And that's the approach 1:04:59.400 --> 1:05:01.400 the war and sane and that's what this California model 1:05:01.440 --> 1:05:01.720 is about. 1:05:01.920 --> 1:05:04.720 Twenty thirty people I met today are more compassionate at 1:05:04.840 --> 1:05:06.880 a deeper heart than a lot of people I see 1:05:06.880 --> 1:05:10.439 every day walking the streets going to stores at the DM. 1:05:10.480 --> 1:05:14.720 I mean, it is real, these guys. It's they got it. 1:05:14.880 --> 1:05:17.280 And what you're doing ward works work. 1:05:17.360 --> 1:05:17.760 And what's so? 1:05:18.080 --> 1:05:21.400 I think you hear you've lived it in all the 1:05:21.440 --> 1:05:23.520 work you've done. But I keep experience every time I 1:05:23.600 --> 1:05:27.040 come back. The folks have said t X number of 1:05:27.080 --> 1:05:30.880 years ago. I had no hope, and so I acted accordingly. 1:05:31.360 --> 1:05:33.440 I didn't give a damn about myself, I didn't give 1:05:33.440 --> 1:05:35.880 a damn about my cellmate, I didn't give a damn. 1:05:35.760 --> 1:05:36.960 About the warden of the guards. 1:05:37.240 --> 1:05:39.640 And all of a sudden, you guys started giving us hope. 1:05:39.680 --> 1:05:40.120 That if we. 1:05:40.320 --> 1:05:43.840 Program, we do the right thing, if we're more empathetic, 1:05:43.920 --> 1:05:47.560 if we address the issues of the violence we did 1:05:47.640 --> 1:05:50.640 outside these gates, and then maybe we have a chance 1:05:50.760 --> 1:05:51.760 to get the hell out of here. 1:05:52.600 --> 1:05:56.480 And that mindset is pretty powerful, and I hope it's 1:05:56.560 --> 1:05:57.560 it's paying dividends for. 1:05:58.040 --> 1:06:02.000 All the extraordinary staff that you have and and the 1:06:02.040 --> 1:06:04.240 hard work these guards do every single day. And I 1:06:04.400 --> 1:06:06.120 made this point about the California We don't want to 1:06:06.160 --> 1:06:08.200 do this to the guards. We want to do it 1:06:08.280 --> 1:06:09.720 with the guards, but nor do we want to do 1:06:09.800 --> 1:06:12.600 it to the inmates. We want to get there there 1:06:12.640 --> 1:06:16.160 they're incarcerated. We want to get their council advice. And 1:06:16.240 --> 1:06:19.520 you've created these advisory committees that are inclusive not only 1:06:19.560 --> 1:06:21.320 people on the inside, but on the outside that have 1:06:21.440 --> 1:06:25.000 real experience, lived experience here at said Quentin. 1:06:25.400 --> 1:06:27.320 Yeah, I think that hope is safety for all of us. 1:06:27.440 --> 1:06:29.240 We walk in here and you feel the vibe. The 1:06:29.320 --> 1:06:31.200 vibe is kind of different. Right any given day you 1:06:31.200 --> 1:06:33.240 can walk in here, here a band playing, see a 1:06:33.320 --> 1:06:35.720 softball game going down. You know, we walked and talked 1:06:35.720 --> 1:06:37.600 and shook hands with a bunch of people that live 1:06:37.640 --> 1:06:40.960 and work here, right, and it wasn't this depressing feeling, right, 1:06:41.200 --> 1:06:42.680 So we're trying to make the best of what we got, 1:06:43.240 --> 1:06:45.000 but we got a lot more more to do as well. 1:06:45.360 --> 1:06:45.440 Well. 1:06:45.440 --> 1:06:46.400 I appreciate it, thank you. 1:06:46.440 --> 1:06:47.680 I appreciate you, guy, it very much. 1:06:47.680 --> 1:06:48.160 Appreciate it. 1:06:48.240 --> 1:06:51.000 Thank you, sir, thank you, thank you. Appreciate you. 1:06:51.640 --> 1:06:55.080 Yes, sir, I'm still trying to figure out how y'all 1:06:55.120 --> 1:07:03.480 got the bank b