Speaker 1: Man, what's handed man? You got Marshaw Bismall Lynch, Doug Hendrickson.
Speaker 2: And Gavin Knewsome and you're listening to politics you know
Speaker 2: to be you known to be.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 3: Doug, Doug Marshawn, what was that? I mean, it's been
Speaker 3: about a week or so. What was the experience like
Speaker 3: going into San Quent, Doug. I think it was the
Speaker 3: first time you've been inside San Quentin, right.
Speaker 4: It was eye opening, and it was it was enlightening
Speaker 4: because I truthfully, when I went there, I expected to,
Speaker 4: you know, a much much different perspective than I thought.
Speaker 4: I mean when I got there, seeing these these inmates
Speaker 4: and prisoners who literally the programs that San Quentin had
Speaker 4: and their mindset that you know, yeah, incarcerated if or
Speaker 4: if they don't get out or they get out, to
Speaker 4: have the programs in place to have these guys' life
Speaker 4: change in terms of uh, their mindset was so enlightening.
Speaker 4: I did not expect to meet the sixty seventy eighty
Speaker 4: prisoners that they did, that had the mindset they'd have,
Speaker 4: and it blew me away.
Speaker 1: I bet.
Speaker 3: I mean one of the things I imagine if you've
Speaker 3: never been there, and I remember the first time I
Speaker 3: went to San Juan.
Speaker 2: What really surprised me is.
Speaker 3: That you can walk into the yard and there are
Speaker 3: hundreds and hundreds of prisoners, and folks can walk right.
Speaker 2: Up to you.
Speaker 3: You can talk. I mean, we were talking to lifers.
Speaker 3: We were talking to folks that may never see the
Speaker 3: light of day, and they're all out there in the yard.
Speaker 3: People seem to be getting along. They're willing. I mean
Speaker 3: they're willing. The guards are willing to allow you to
Speaker 3: walk around. I mean, was that something you had anticipated.
Speaker 3: You thought it would be a little bit more organized.
Speaker 4: I thought you'd see, honestly, I thought you'd see the
Speaker 4: Hispanics in one side the blacks. I thought you'd see
Speaker 4: the segregation in terms of the prisoners like you see
Speaker 4: in the movies. But to see these guys walk up,
Speaker 4: and how appreciative they were that we were there, how
Speaker 4: appreciative they were without the prisons, and Quentin with the warden,
Speaker 4: had the programs that they have, uh and all the
Speaker 4: things that they're allowed to do, to walk freely and
Speaker 4: to take part in you know, math programs in the
Speaker 4: podcast room that they have, and and the different things
Speaker 4: they're doing. Was was completely eye opening to me in
Speaker 4: a great way.
Speaker 2: Marshawn, you ever met a warden like that?
Speaker 1: Nah?
Speaker 2: That wasn't the kind of warden you expect.
Speaker 1: But but but the thing, the biggest thing that stuck out,
Speaker 1: uh to me about him was you know, the uh,
Speaker 1: the gentleman that we was talking to that was from
Speaker 1: Oakland and he's like, yeah, man, I noticed, like man,
Speaker 1: you know we've been doing time together, like you feemy,
Speaker 1: I remember he used to come run up in my
Speaker 1: cel and hell of shit, you know, we bumping it
Speaker 1: out and is the third and then to see like
Speaker 1: you know, them two just sitting down being able to
Speaker 1: you know, I mean reminisce on what it was like,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean back in the days can entering.
Speaker 1: You know how far they have came on, you know,
Speaker 1: for both of them, and you know they relationship and
Speaker 1: being able to just see them have a conversation it
Speaker 1: was more and so like you know, I mean, that
Speaker 1: was more so like you running into one of your
Speaker 1: old school pintners that you used to fight all the
Speaker 1: time when y'all was younger, And you know what I mean, like, boy,
Speaker 1: you remember I used to chase your ass? Now like
Speaker 1: hell yeah, you Remember I was hiding all that dope
Speaker 1: from you, like you know, I had it, but you
Speaker 1: couldn't find my ship. Boy, I had my sending a
Speaker 1: good but it was just like for me to see
Speaker 1: that the warden had a mindset like, damn, I've really
Speaker 1: been doing time with you, and as much time as
Speaker 1: you been doing, I've been doing it as well. So
Speaker 1: you know, when I look at that situation and you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, you know, you look at it
Speaker 1: from an institutionalize situation, it's like these wardens, these CEOs,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, they going into prison and
Speaker 1: they doing this time too. Now under the circumstances in
Speaker 1: the situation like yeah, you're going in here to get
Speaker 1: a check, to be able to you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: take care of your family and shit. But the way
Speaker 1: that he was just making it, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: in a situation where like you know, we were being
Speaker 1: integrated here, like you know what I mean, I go
Speaker 1: and talk to my guys like, hey, you know, what
Speaker 1: can we do you know I mean, in order to
Speaker 1: help you know what I mean, make this a a
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, as comfortable as it is.
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure if y'all was around while we
Speaker 1: were having the conversation, but he was saying he gave
Speaker 1: a you know, I mean a scenario like you know,
Speaker 1: you get a twenty year old and I mean have
Speaker 1: a run in with the law, and then you know,
Speaker 1: from there, get arrested, go to the county and then
Speaker 1: you know, I mean from that officer that he come
Speaker 1: into contact with is not a good interaction. Then the
Speaker 1: DA not a good interaction. Then you go in the
Speaker 1: court and now you're talking to the motherfucking judge, and
Speaker 1: the judge talking down that you're not a good situation.
Speaker 1: And then you know, I mean, you do your counting
Speaker 1: time you interacting with the guards in they're not a
Speaker 1: good situation. And then you know, I mean they come
Speaker 1: and they drop you off into the pen. And the
Speaker 1: motherfucker was like, I have to, you know, tell my
Speaker 1: guards and shit like hey, you know what I mean
Speaker 1: when when these individuals step off the fucking the bus,
Speaker 1: like these are still humans considering you know, they they
Speaker 1: fucked up and they did what they did. But at
Speaker 1: the end of the time, end of the day, you're
Speaker 1: about to be here with this individual for a long time,
Speaker 1: so you go ahead and establish a relationship with this individual.
Speaker 1: So while you're doing it, that's that's that takes less
Speaker 1: off your plate to the point where you ain't here,
Speaker 1: you ain't got to look over your back. I know
Speaker 1: you're hear so many times about you know, in prison,
Speaker 1: the guards getting bum rushed by inmates, this, that and
Speaker 1: the third. But you know, I mean his mindset was to,
Speaker 1: I mean, well, we gonna be here. It ain't knowing
Speaker 1: we could do about it, you know, I mean regardless
Speaker 1: to whatever you've done to get in here. But basically, motherfucker,
Speaker 1: we finna be roommates, we finna be living here, so
Speaker 1: we might as well find a common ground to where
Speaker 1: we could get an understanding to Yeah, I mean for
Speaker 1: you that I can feel safe and for you, for
Speaker 1: you can feel safe. And I'm like, you know what, man,
Speaker 1: when you think about that process, like yeah, why would
Speaker 1: I get off this bus going into the pen thinking
Speaker 1: like oh it's cool, Like nah, hell no, I'm pissed
Speaker 1: off a mad as fuck along my journey is being
Speaker 1: fucked up. This then the third and I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: not to you, I mean look at it from a
Speaker 1: position to where you know, whether you are incarcerated, like
Speaker 1: you've done what you've done, and now it come time
Speaker 1: to you know, serve your time and do what you
Speaker 1: gotta do, like you know what I mean, you got
Speaker 1: to make the most of it. And then when I
Speaker 1: talk to individual my family that is in there, and
Speaker 1: I asked these individuals like, hey man, how you doing?
Speaker 1: And when I talk to him and they coming from
Speaker 1: a standpoint of like I'm in a good space, and
Speaker 1: it fucks me up in my head. I'm like, damn, bro,
Speaker 1: you not coming outside, You're not like you're not finna
Speaker 1: come home. But for you to be you know, I
Speaker 1: mean to have a mindset like you know, one day
Speaker 1: at a time. And I'm in a good space, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean I got a program, a regiment. I mean,
Speaker 1: I stick to that and you know I got served
Speaker 1: my time. It's like fuck. But then I can see
Speaker 1: where that situation would come from after having a conversation
Speaker 1: with a warden that maybe, you know, I mean, operate
Speaker 1: the way that he do.
Speaker 3: And what's so special about this war love what I mean,
Speaker 3: I think that distinction that you just made and I
Speaker 3: loved hearing it as you did from the wardens and
Speaker 3: we're both we're both doing time together. I mean this
Speaker 3: idea that that they share that experience and to have
Speaker 3: the warden top down, to have a lot.
Speaker 2: Of guards, not all of them.
Speaker 3: I mean, we're doing a lot of reforms and not
Speaker 3: everybody's on board, but a lot of of the guards
Speaker 3: are on board because they recognize that they want to
Speaker 3: create a safer environment. They want an environment where people
Speaker 3: are more respected and they don't have to your point,
Speaker 3: if they turn their back, they're not worried about what's
Speaker 3: going on behind their back every single minute of every
Speaker 3: single day.
Speaker 2: But I think what's.
Speaker 3: Special about this warden is he has his own lived
Speaker 3: experience with his own family and the fact that he
Speaker 3: had family members doing time and grew up in that
Speaker 3: environment and with a deeper perspective of understanding. So we're
Speaker 3: we're lucky as hell to have this guy at San
Speaker 3: quent leading the way in this transformation of one of
Speaker 3: the most iconic prisons in the world, what we call
Speaker 3: the California model. And so what you guys saw in
Speaker 3: the yard is what we want to see a lot
Speaker 3: more of as we increase scale ten x the programming there,
Speaker 3: we physically redesign that facility, just as we did with
Speaker 3: Death Row.
Speaker 2: And I'm curious for you guys.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know if you've been on death
Speaker 3: row before we call the East Block at San Quentin,
Speaker 3: what was that experience like to physically walk in to
Speaker 3: death row.
Speaker 4: Well, before I get to that, Gvin, I mean just
Speaker 4: looking at the non lifers and looking at the cells
Speaker 4: that those guys had that might get out in ten, fifteen, five, ten, fifteen,
Speaker 4: twenty years whatever. If to understand that when you put
Speaker 4: your hands to the side, you can touch the walls,
Speaker 4: when you put your hands above you can touch the ceiling,
Speaker 4: and if you're six foot two, six foot whatever it
Speaker 4: may be, and you have a cellmate, you can't turn
Speaker 4: around without going back to back to.
Speaker 5: Get around the cell.
Speaker 4: To be able to live in those conditions and think
Speaker 4: you might get out in five ten years without the
Speaker 4: programs that San Quentin has, you have no hope. And
Speaker 4: I can see that if these guys get out in
Speaker 4: other prisons that don't have the programs and the hope
Speaker 4: that they're giving them, how do you get out and
Speaker 4: expect to join the real world and function and be
Speaker 4: a memor society, as a as a father, as a.
Speaker 5: Husband, as whatever it may be. Go forward? It's mind blown.
Speaker 4: So I mean a kudos to San Quentin because these
Speaker 4: inmates that have a chance to get out, even the
Speaker 4: ones that don't, their mindset is the right way, which
Speaker 4: is pretty cool to see.
Speaker 5: Uh. To walk to death Row was eerie.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 4: My hair raising on my arms. It was really really
Speaker 4: weird to see that part of it. To walk through,
Speaker 4: and I can see both sides. I can see as
Speaker 4: a as a parent, if your son or daughter gets
Speaker 4: killed and they're there, you can see, Hey, you know what,
Speaker 4: I wanted to stay there or I wanted to get killed.
Speaker 5: I don't know what I would do if this was
Speaker 5: my son or dough.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I can't tell you and equivocally, but to walk through there,
Speaker 4: it was eerie, and it was weird, and it was
Speaker 4: it was you know, it was tough to see, no
Speaker 4: question about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Marshaun, what was it like for you? I mean
Speaker 3: you you walked in. I don't know how long you
Speaker 3: stuck a I mean, what was that like for me?
Speaker 1: Man? That ain't you know? I mean, that ain't something
Speaker 1: that you feel me. I don't that Main's something I
Speaker 1: would say, like I glorify, So you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, I think what I maybe
Speaker 1: stepped in maybe three four five steps and then you know,
Speaker 1: I got the fuck up out of there. But just
Speaker 1: the mentality of just you know, I mean, understanding that
Speaker 1: you got motherfuckers locked in that box in that cave.
Speaker 1: That's that's some you know what I mean, that's some
Speaker 1: some some deep shit. Now I understand you feel me,
Speaker 1: you do that, that situation, you do, the crime, you
Speaker 1: do the time type shit. So for me, man, just
Speaker 1: like even just thinking about it, it's like I don't
Speaker 1: even want to go and put myself in a position
Speaker 1: where I even go get a visual or some shit
Speaker 1: like that, because I mean, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: my model is you feel me though I'm trying to last,
Speaker 1: not come in last, and just going even just for me,
Speaker 1: just even going in there and getting, ah, you mean
Speaker 1: a glimpse of it, Like I mean, I don't want
Speaker 1: that for real, for real.
Speaker 3: So I mean I imagine it was like that too
Speaker 3: when we were at the gas chamber and then we
Speaker 3: went separated that the death chamber where they do the injections.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, like man, that's some ship, like you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like I don't even want to see
Speaker 1: like even to the point where you know, we'll talk
Speaker 1: about it. You know, when my fucker came out, like
Speaker 1: you know that's sound brutal shit, like you know, you
Speaker 1: put the motherfucker in there to to you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, that that walk over there, you know, knowing
Speaker 1: that this's gonna be your last walk, like you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, just the mindset of how that ship go,
Speaker 1: but understanding like like damn, there's some there's some real
Speaker 1: fuck up ship and I know I was saying to
Speaker 1: you or like there's some barbers ship, like who the
Speaker 1: fuck think is ship like this? In order to just
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, take motherfuckers lives. It's it's
Speaker 1: just like another Tuesday.
Speaker 3: Another Tuesday could be Monday through Friday. I mean, dozens
Speaker 3: of people right now are eligible to be executed. They've
Speaker 3: exhausted all their appeals. And I think for me, you know,
Speaker 3: I really wanted you guys to see that, particularly Doug.
Speaker 3: I think you came back with me and were the
Speaker 3: injection chair that place. Since the last time we did
Speaker 3: an execution was two thousand and six. They literally have
Speaker 3: not changed anything in that room. They just moved some
Speaker 3: of the chairs, but every single thing is the same,
Speaker 3: including the phone on the wall with a red light
Speaker 3: above it with the governor says the governor doesn't say
Speaker 3: which governor says the governor waiting for that phone call
Speaker 3: to do a reprieve, to stop the execution or allow
Speaker 3: the green light for the execution to go. I've been
Speaker 3: in there a couple of times, and you talk about
Speaker 3: Doug hair on your arms. I mean, that's just that
Speaker 3: sits with you in a different way that you have
Speaker 3: the ability. It's like some gladiator, you know, putting up
Speaker 3: the thumb up or down life and death. And so
Speaker 3: I appreciate mar Shaun about that. This notion that we
Speaker 3: can kill broken people, that we can do it in
Speaker 3: a premeditated way, that somehow that we're saying it's wrong
Speaker 3: to kill people, but in the name of that we
Speaker 3: execute someone. That's just hard for me to square. And
Speaker 3: as governor, that responsibility falls, you know, straight on my.
Speaker 2: Damn lap well.
Speaker 4: And the sad thing, Gavin, look, I mean, you know,
Speaker 4: you and I weren't raised the same way that Marshaun was,
Speaker 4: a lot of people were. But to see some of
Speaker 4: these guys in there and to make a wrong turn
Speaker 4: in life, you know and end up. I mean, it's
Speaker 4: not fair. It's really scary in a lot of ways.
Speaker 4: And his eye opening. I think I was talking to
Speaker 4: twenty four year old prisoner there who talked about when
Speaker 4: he was I think his mom was a prostitute, his
Speaker 4: dad didn't wasn't there seven eight nine years old, had
Speaker 4: no food, didn't know what to do. I think he
Speaker 4: had his first you know, stole some bread as a kid,
Speaker 4: and he kind of evolved from there.
Speaker 5: But this kid did no chance in life.
Speaker 4: He had no chance and he got in and luckily
Speaker 4: he's got a chance to get out in ten fifteen years.
Speaker 4: But you know, without the programme san Quentin has, without
Speaker 4: the hope he's going to have going forward. I mean,
Speaker 4: this kid had no chance in life, and it's really sad.
Speaker 4: But most people in the world don't look at this
Speaker 4: and say, oh, well, he shouldn't have been in there. Okay,
Speaker 4: we'll put yourself in issues.
Speaker 5: What are you gonna do?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 5: I mean, I mean that's the hard part.
Speaker 3: All powerful components of what we ultimately want to bring
Speaker 3: to light in this podcast.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and I applaud you for doing what you've
Speaker 4: do done with san Quentin and all the prisoners across
Speaker 4: California because it's making a difference.
Speaker 5: And to your point, you know, when they do get out, they're.
Speaker 4: Going to be our neighbors, our community members and all that,
Speaker 4: and so what you've done is great. So I appreciate
Speaker 4: what you've done and taken us in there.
Speaker 3: How about one of those community members is my old
Speaker 3: teammate in Twin Cities Little League in Larksburg, California, and
Speaker 3: that literally my age. You met him, Doug Marshaun. You
Speaker 3: guys all met him. Angelo Mecki, who was our third baseman, shortstop,
Speaker 3: second baseman, had everything going for him in life and
Speaker 3: just started hanging out with the wrong people. I mean,
Speaker 3: you talk about just this, how any for the grace
Speaker 3: of God go any of us. One decision hanging out
Speaker 3: with the wrong people. A couple of bad decisions after that,
Speaker 3: and here he is, third striker, third damn striker. But
Speaker 3: it was a hell of a thing to walk into
Speaker 3: that yard and meet a former Little League teammate who says, hey, Gavin,
Speaker 3: how's your sister doing? You like, what the hell are
Speaker 3: you talking about? And find a guy who played for
Speaker 3: Roundtable Pizza that was the name of the team, and
Speaker 3: my eleventh, twelfth year old Little League team. So it's
Speaker 3: it's life and I think people really enjoy this podcast. Bordon,
Speaker 3: where I've been in here, I've had the privilege of
Speaker 3: being Air of San Quentin News on a number of occasions,
Speaker 3: and to see the evolution over the course last decade
Speaker 3: here in the multimedia and all the incredible work that
Speaker 3: they continued to do. Tell us a little bit about
Speaker 3: this space, maybe a little bit of history, and tell
Speaker 3: us a little bit about your journey. You're in the
Speaker 3: newly appointed tag. You're it Warden of San Quentin, the
Speaker 3: iconic San Quentin built eighteen fifty two, the oldest, oldest
Speaker 3: state prison in the state of California.
Speaker 6: I would say it's the luckiest. I'm the luckiest person
Speaker 6: alive right now. As far as my job, I'm leading
Speaker 6: the California model here at San Quentin State Prison. We're
Speaker 6: in our media room, which produces a podcast, it has
Speaker 6: a filming studio, it has a newspaper. The opportunity that
Speaker 6: the governor has given me is pretty cool. My journey
Speaker 6: is a little different. My father was incarcerated and out
Speaker 6: of jail, so I grew up kind of having to
Speaker 6: make some tough choices.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that me and you we got kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because that's that's how my
Speaker 1: poths was. You feel me.
Speaker 6: So I had to make a decision, man, you know,
Speaker 6: do I follow that trend or do I.
Speaker 1: Do I change?
Speaker 5: Well, how long was your dead in for?
Speaker 6: So I didn't see him a lot after he got incarstraighted.
Speaker 6: He now passed, but he was a D number, which
Speaker 6: tells you was probably about thirty years ago. He did
Speaker 6: some time in Chino, and then he was in and
Speaker 6: out of jail. So he really wasn't relevant in my life.
Speaker 6: So I wanted to distance myself from him. So I
Speaker 6: went into law enforcement because everybody assumed I was going
Speaker 6: to go that path, and I started over twenty two
Speaker 6: years ago. I started over twenty two years ago when
Speaker 6: the three strikes law was in effect. No one told
Speaker 6: us how to do it. We just went in there
Speaker 6: and they just told us how it was. So to
Speaker 6: get the opportunity to actually give back to the community
Speaker 6: and get people ready to participate in our communities and
Speaker 6: give back, it's an amazing.
Speaker 1: That's hell of that's that's strange that you even you
Speaker 1: feel me, don't look at it like that, because just
Speaker 1: when you hear like the war and type shit, that's
Speaker 1: like hell no, like almost like the principal at school
Speaker 1: and shit like that. So it's and then to hear
Speaker 1: them saying like, you know, giving back to the community
Speaker 1: like for whatever, that shit just not for me. It's
Speaker 1: not translating in my head to even think about it
Speaker 1: in that way. So when you say that, because you
Speaker 1: just threw out some shit, that's big. When you say
Speaker 1: we're in the media room, like y'all got a podcast,
Speaker 1: y'all got it? Uh, first of all these goddamn cameras
Speaker 1: that I've been seeing these guys walk around with that
Speaker 1: you feel what I'm saying, that's some state of the
Speaker 1: ort like equipment type shit. So it sounds like you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, we was talking a little like the system
Speaker 1: and the mold that has been kind of for the
Speaker 1: last I don't know how many goddamn years. But you
Speaker 1: know when you came up and like, yeah, I'm the
Speaker 1: ward and we're like, damn you look shit, you don't
Speaker 1: look a day Yeah, you know what I mean? Over
Speaker 1: twenty one like and you say, you know what, you're
Speaker 1: trying to change things, trying to break the molde now,
Speaker 1: not just with your appearance, but your mindset and what
Speaker 1: you bringing into the institution here. Like, you know, it's
Speaker 1: been hard just you feel me just even coming in here,
Speaker 1: because it's like, why the fuck would you be going
Speaker 1: into a prison. But then it's like, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, the history of my you know, coming up
Speaker 1: here to visit my pops when I was hell younger, Dan,
Speaker 1: you fear me all of my people that just been
Speaker 1: through this system, and you know what I mean, we
Speaker 1: have a whole different outlook on what prison is. And
Speaker 1: I mean when I looked up their little research and
Speaker 1: it's like it's a rehabilitation spot. But it's like whenever
Speaker 1: somebody come home after doing their time, you feel me
Speaker 1: though they seem to be in a worse off place
Speaker 1: than they was when they went in, and they went
Speaker 1: in probably on some you know, I'm young, I'm dumb,
Speaker 1: I don't know. This is just how what I got
Speaker 1: to do in order to feed my family or I
Speaker 1: got to protect myself and or whatever. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: they come down to it. But then when they get
Speaker 1: out there know way fucked up more mindset. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean the world has passed them. And I understand is
Speaker 1: the the you know what I mean, the punishment was
Speaker 1: that the fucking now I told me to op. We
Speaker 1: just was talking to my boy about consequences. Yeah, you got.
Speaker 6: That's what we're trying to change, exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 6: The opposition would say this is a public safety, But
Speaker 6: it's absolutely public safety because we're making citizens here, right,
Speaker 6: people that we put back in our community and have
Speaker 6: trades degrees to get back to our community. So it
Speaker 6: is public safety and that's what some people are struggling
Speaker 6: to realize.
Speaker 3: And I think one of the things just a good
Speaker 3: reminder everybody folks in our system end up home and
Speaker 3: you want them broken, more pissed off, or do you
Speaker 3: want them to be more resourceful, more fully and you
Speaker 3: want them to be your neighbors. You gotta think in
Speaker 3: those terms.
Speaker 6: Who was I talking recently? I was talking to an
Speaker 6: old Mexican mafia guy and he says, Uh, this guy
Speaker 6: was running the yard and he had he had a date.
Speaker 6: He goes, hey, man, I got a date. Can I
Speaker 6: stop politicking? And that leadership in the Mexican mafia basically
Speaker 6: allowed that and said, yeah, you've always done your work
Speaker 6: for us. Don't mess with them now with the gangser's power,
Speaker 6: So now you're not going to always get that type
Speaker 6: of thread line or Okay, so yeah, there's there's prison
Speaker 6: politics that we could write a book.
Speaker 1: So you know what that sounded like to me because
Speaker 1: I asked this mufflucker, Hey, why you're gonna run for president?
Speaker 1: And then it was an order just like what you
Speaker 1: just demonstrated right now, it's an order or how you
Speaker 1: feel me, how they rock? And I'm like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: so when you politicking, you really dealing with some real politics.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, shit, go run for president, like for
Speaker 1: we could stop the podcast.
Speaker 3: Of all the things that I've done as governor, the
Speaker 3: one thing I wasn't prepared for was this space. I mean,
Speaker 3: when you're campaigning out there, no one asked me what
Speaker 3: my relationship or with prison reform was. They talked about
Speaker 3: criminal justice reform more broadly. We did not didn't understand
Speaker 3: the nature of debriefing. That never came up. There was
Speaker 3: no white paper that I had.
Speaker 5: I don't know what a.
Speaker 3: Gang debrief was. I didn't fully appreciate the parole process
Speaker 3: and didn't understand all of these nuances. But every single
Speaker 3: week I have life or death decisions. Literally, no bullshit.
Speaker 1: When you're looking at that, what is it in your mind? Like, Okay,
Speaker 1: if I see these type of.
Speaker 3: It's exactly what we just heard right there. As you want,
Speaker 3: you can kind of talk away. I want to know
Speaker 3: the journey. I want to know that it's sincere, it's
Speaker 3: not bullshit. I want to know that you didn't just
Speaker 3: go into some program just to quote unquote get a check,
Speaker 3: so you just stack in those checks to come to me.
Speaker 3: I want to know that you feel remorse, that you
Speaker 3: feel for the victims, that you have a relationship to
Speaker 3: the victims, because at the end of the day, we
Speaker 3: I think what happens when we have these conversations. People
Speaker 3: see it as it's it's right or wrong, black or white.
Speaker 3: You spend time with the folks that are incarcerated, it
Speaker 3: means somehow you're taking away from the families and the
Speaker 3: victims and I and that's important to me that that
Speaker 3: has to be both. And you've got to come out
Speaker 3: feeling deeply responsible, accountable, remorseful, and you've got to come
Speaker 3: back as stronger person. And if you if you have that,
Speaker 3: if you have empathy, you have care. I have some
Speaker 3: goddamn compassion and you could demonstrate that, then that's determinative
Speaker 3: in terms of.
Speaker 2: The people that we let go.
Speaker 3: Otherwise, if I feel just a it's instinctual sometimes and
Speaker 3: it's just immediately rejection.
Speaker 1: When you just look at the name, like Marshaan Lanche.
Speaker 2: You know what, That's what every governor used to do.
Speaker 1: When I go fill out job applications, they.
Speaker 2: The name alone.
Speaker 3: By the way, you see that, that's a real thing.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: But let me let me tell you, let me tell
Speaker 2: you negotiate.
Speaker 3: It's only been since Governor Brown had gotten the previous
Speaker 3: governors Democrats, not just Republicans, they rejected every single Parole
Speaker 3: Board recommendation.
Speaker 2: They didn't even look at it.
Speaker 3: And then they would look at the name, or worse,
Speaker 3: they'd look at a picture and they go they look
Speaker 3: and see if someone's got tatted up, Like no, he's gone,
Speaker 3: I'm no bullshit. And and then race was a determinative
Speaker 3: damn factor for on getting in here and getting out
Speaker 3: of here. So I don't see pictures, I don't care
Speaker 3: about the name. I quite literally look at the journey
Speaker 3: people are on, and I look, we have a risk
Speaker 3: assessment a psychologist. I look at the programming. When did
Speaker 3: they debrief from the Mexican mafia. It's been ten years.
Speaker 3: Are they cleaning sober? Because most folks out and a
Speaker 3: lot of them, and they fuck things up because they
Speaker 3: start using again even though they're parole eligible. They've done
Speaker 3: everything right and they were dumb enough to go back.
Speaker 3: And I figure they're dumb enough to do that. Here,
Speaker 3: they're gonna dumb enough to end up back on the
Speaker 3: goddamn streets and back in the pond.
Speaker 5: You because I know, I know, I know how you
Speaker 5: like that.
Speaker 1: Free the game.
Speaker 3: But I know we're gonna tell them, by the way,
Speaker 3: in a minute, we're gonna talk about the goddamn death penalty.
Speaker 2: How about that on your concha? How about that on
Speaker 2: your conte?
Speaker 1: Like, just let the motherfucker sit down and do their time.
Speaker 1: It's like, uh, what is that you was talking about
Speaker 1: in the movies and ship like? But the movies, I'll
Speaker 1: be saying they were fucking people will like with the uh,
Speaker 1: the the gas chambers and all those kind of ships, Like,
Speaker 1: who go and think about creating some ship like that?
Speaker 1: The fuck people, that's some sick ship.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's pretty sick that we tell people
Speaker 3: it's wrong to kill, and so in the name are
Speaker 3: in somehow in the spirit of saying it's wrong to kill,
Speaker 3: we kill people premeditated man, and we kill broken people.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: One thing everybody has in common. They come in here,
Speaker 3: they're broken, they're broken some way, shape or form. And
Speaker 3: then the idea that we're killing broken people as a
Speaker 3: society systemically, and that was something by the way, broken
Speaker 3: people killing broken pit And so the question is, yeah,
Speaker 3: who's broken. If I'm sitting there, I think there's a
Speaker 3: dozen there's a couple dozen guys that were on sand
Speaker 3: here in San quin eligible for me to put them
Speaker 3: to death, that that had gone through all their all
Speaker 3: their appeals and every sing and no I could have overseen.
Speaker 3: I could have overseen dozens of things. And that had
Speaker 3: been on my watch. Man, Like you decide, you'll go,
Speaker 3: and when we go in the ejection room, you'll see
Speaker 3: the damn phone. You'll see the phone right there, and
Speaker 3: that's the governor's phone for the last phone call. And
Speaker 3: if there's no call, I mean that's on your that's
Speaker 3: on your conscience.
Speaker 2: Man, I couldn't live.
Speaker 3: So if you don't call the governor has the ability
Speaker 3: at those last minutes, reprieve and comye. I mean it's
Speaker 3: it's that's their life or death to say so. I
Speaker 3: did a moratorium. When I got here, I said, I
Speaker 3: can't do it. I just I'm not that guy. I
Speaker 3: can't do it. I talked to Swartz and Agria was
Speaker 3: the last guy that to condempted him in two thousand
Speaker 3: and six, and he didn't. He said this very publicly,
Speaker 3: and it's not a knock on Arnold at all. He
Speaker 3: said it it was last time that was used, right,
Speaker 3: Warne was two thousand and six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well who was it?
Speaker 3: It was Ray Allen and Ray was a legendary guy
Speaker 3: for a lot of different reasons. And I asked, I said,
Speaker 3: I asked Arnold because I had just done the moratorium.
Speaker 3: And I said, you know, I said, how was?
Speaker 2: How was? Just as a human level? And again I
Speaker 2: only share this.
Speaker 3: Because he's repeated publicly, and he said he said to me, no,
Speaker 3: you know, he said, well, I'll give you the asked that.
Speaker 2: He said, you know, you know.
Speaker 3: You know, you know Givin's you know, I slept like
Speaker 3: a baby, he said, he slept like a baby. I'm
Speaker 3: like whoa. And honestly, that like that hit me in
Speaker 3: intense way. He slept like a bit you know what,
Speaker 3: and some way like I respect that he did and
Speaker 3: he was serious about it. I couldn't. I'm not that guy.
Speaker 3: I'm not wired like that. I couldn't do that. And
Speaker 3: so that that was a heavy weight that also led
Speaker 3: to this California model. It's one thing to do a moratorium,
Speaker 3: but we got to do a more torum on stupidity,
Speaker 3: doubling down on stupid and the recidiveum rates that are
Speaker 3: off the damn charts. People are less safe as a
Speaker 3: consequence of our stupidity, and we needed to start doing
Speaker 3: program but at scale, not ones, he too, not little
Speaker 3: small ball stuff. And the great thing about San Quentin
Speaker 3: and Wardon was saying this is it's so proximate, and
Speaker 3: proximity is a powerful word, just generally. And that's why
Speaker 3: I keep coming back to the prisons because I want
Speaker 3: to be proximate to what's happening inside so I make
Speaker 3: better decisions on the outside. But the proximity here and
Speaker 3: what I'm relating to is so many people that want
Speaker 3: to volunteer, and it's one of the reasons this is
Speaker 3: a service rich environment, and why I wanted to change
Speaker 3: that environment at scale by investing in this California model
Speaker 3: at a whole nother level where successfully is clues. If
Speaker 3: we can prove it here, we can then lay this
Speaker 3: thing out, lay the tracks for forming the rest of
Speaker 3: the system. This is the biggest system in the United
Speaker 3: States of America, with the largest deskwall in the Western hemisphere.
Speaker 3: We have more prisoners in our system than any other
Speaker 3: state in America. If we can change it here, Warden's power.
Speaker 3: If you can change it here, the paradigm that you
Speaker 3: shift in this country with five percent of the world's
Speaker 3: population but twenty five percent of the people that are incarcerated.
Speaker 1: How much does it cost to house take care?
Speaker 3: What's the latest number? We were at one hundred and
Speaker 3: six thousand two years ago.
Speaker 2: What are we up to this year?
Speaker 6: I think it's about one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, per poseous, you got the motherfucking fifth largest economy in.
Speaker 3: But you know what world you want to put me
Speaker 3: in the mix?
Speaker 2: You are you're gonna be our budget director. God, and
Speaker 2: you want to know why. You want to know why.
Speaker 3: But you you were talking out in the yard, Marshaan.
Speaker 3: Now you want to have a real conversation. You want
Speaker 3: to know what. You want to know why. You want
Speaker 3: to know what the contracts are to make phone calls here.
Speaker 3: You want to know what the racket is there. You
Speaker 3: want to know what the procurement racket is in the
Speaker 3: prison industries and how people are making a fortune oft
Speaker 3: incarcerating people. You want to know what's going with private
Speaker 3: prisons in this country that are incentivizing more folks being
Speaker 3: locked up for longer periods.
Speaker 2: And making a fortune.
Speaker 3: And the lobbyists and the lobbyists that are being hired
Speaker 3: and the lives that are being destroyed so people can
Speaker 3: make money. That's goddamn right. That is a huge part
Speaker 3: of this whole thing, a huge part of it. Don't
Speaker 3: think for a second you're wrong about that. Everything you
Speaker 3: say we're in the yard was spot on. People are
Speaker 3: selling you fear and anxiety, and that's what this is about,
Speaker 3: fear and anxiety. It's fear based and it's fueled by anger.
Speaker 3: And it's understandable because people want to be safe and
Speaker 3: they want and I get that, and victims need to
Speaker 3: be respected and we need to connect them. I think
Speaker 3: we need to connect to that much more. But this
Speaker 3: has become a racket, and breaking up this racket is
Speaker 3: hard and the opposition is real, and it's not about politics.
Speaker 1: Democrats are careful, bro, because when you get to talking
Speaker 1: like that stern and all that type of motherfucker they be,
Speaker 1: they be creeping and ship. Man, Hey, look well you
Speaker 1: just I just rolled over here with you. I like
Speaker 1: I said, I like I like living. I like baking up,
Speaker 1: brushing my teeth after long nights and getting some oasis,
Speaker 1: tearing ship down. But the truth is I like living.
Speaker 1: And you know what you are, hot boy. You was
Speaker 1: talking about the gang this year. I tell him they
Speaker 1: got the red and the blue, red and red with
Speaker 1: the politics ship. So he familiar with gang coaching, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Just how you broke it.
Speaker 2: I hope you all heard what he just said.
Speaker 1: Man, you know he talks about it. Know you you
Speaker 1: can probably you could probably give me some insights. So
Speaker 1: when he turned his mic off and all of that,
Speaker 1: we get rid of him. Then I need to high.
Speaker 1: Don't talk about it, man. Yeah, so you let me.
Speaker 3: Every time we talked about gang stuff, he said, don't
Speaker 3: talk to me about gang stuff.
Speaker 2: How about the gang you're in out there in politics? Yeah, sious,
Speaker 2: like nothing says it right it.
Speaker 1: Is look here brown zero. They started them gangs. They
Speaker 1: separated this ship and then they started conquering. We was like,
Speaker 1: which one is you? You the blue or the real one.
Speaker 1: You was over here and was like, all right, we're
Speaker 1: gonna take all this. They're gonna take all this and
Speaker 1: then now hold on, well we want this with nah.
Speaker 1: So then y'all politics spilled over into us. It was like, well, ship,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go get the motherfuckers and bring them over
Speaker 1: here and have them go to work, and this ship
Speaker 1: woo woo dann. You had to like, na, we want
Speaker 1: to free them, Like hell no, we don't want to
Speaker 1: freem Like, well, we're gonna put up what's the prison
Speaker 1: up there in New York where they started? So you
Speaker 1: was talking in sentems with the the how to get
Speaker 1: the gualla for the what you call them inmate nam
Speaker 1: incarcerated incarcerat so how you get to get the guala
Speaker 1: for them? It was like, well, ship, if we go
Speaker 1: out and we catch all of them, then we just
Speaker 1: gonna get it up here on the front end for
Speaker 1: bringing them. Then we're gonna get it on the back
Speaker 1: end because we're gonna send them back down. So y'all,
Speaker 1: the whole gang. You fear me though, the damn y'all,
Speaker 1: that's crazy when you say it like that, because then
Speaker 1: you start looking at individuals that look like me, and
Speaker 1: then it's like we're product. Fuck wheretty sick motherfuckers that
Speaker 1: be thinking like this to be doing that type of ships.
Speaker 2: You should then you're angry, man.
Speaker 1: I know, politician, but I need to get one of them.
Speaker 3: Now you're getting in the deeper conversations about it. And
Speaker 3: there's nothing more true about the system. That it is
Speaker 3: better to be rich and guilty than then poor and innocent.
Speaker 3: Is a damn fact. Rich and guilty, you're better off
Speaker 3: than poor and innocent. And that's a fuck ub system.
Speaker 3: And that is perpetuated and it has been for decades
Speaker 3: and decades, not everywhere.
Speaker 2: I'm not naive.
Speaker 3: I'm not casting as persions on people trapped in this
Speaker 3: damned system, but it is a system that has evolved
Speaker 3: over time. You had, I mean, we have vestiges of
Speaker 3: slavery here in the prison system. We had convictly seen
Speaker 3: after eighteen sixty convict leasing, where they were literally taking
Speaker 3: the incarcerated and folks in the private sector were basically
Speaker 3: getting them for ten cents an hour, and literally the
Speaker 3: prisons were making money off the backs of folks that
Speaker 3: otherwise were previously enslaved. I mean there's serious stuff, segregation
Speaker 3: and lynching, everything that's gone on for decades and decades
Speaker 3: have been institutionalized. And I hate when these assholes, these
Speaker 3: politicians that aren't aproximate to anything, never been in systems
Speaker 3: like this, never been in communities where you probably start
Speaker 3: talking about all this, they don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, if they just serve their community, right, this
Speaker 1: is the thing about the politician, like, if they there
Speaker 1: to serve the community, and shit, I really just be
Speaker 1: seeing them just go stack up coins and then they
Speaker 1: just mobbing, like you feel me? I know, we don't,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, we don't. We don't talk
Speaker 1: about dog. That's what we're gonna We're just gonna call
Speaker 1: him dog or folks. But you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I heard him say like, if y'all wan't fucking change change,
Speaker 1: want me to pay tax, change the laws, but you're
Speaker 1: not gonna do that because it's gonna affect you. Feel
Speaker 1: me though, something bigger than what y'all are willing to
Speaker 1: talk about So y'all just gonna let me say this
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, he ain't he ain't talking about shit,
Speaker 1: But ain't nobody gonna go and really looking to these
Speaker 1: tax laws that he talking about and start changing shit.
Speaker 1: Because I mean, at the end of the day, that comment,
Speaker 1: you just you know, I don't let you say a
Speaker 1: lot of shit, but I really fuck with that one,
Speaker 1: that one you tell you rich and guilty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, rich and guilty and poor in innocent.
Speaker 3: So I mean it's oftentimes it's race more than culpability.
Speaker 2: And I didn't get that was I didn't even get
Speaker 2: in the race there.
Speaker 3: I was talking about wealth, but then we get into
Speaker 3: race and that becomes more of a factor than culpability
Speaker 3: in terms of sentencing. And it's I don't think this,
Speaker 3: we know this, This is not this is it is
Speaker 3: like that the guy we just met, he said, this
Speaker 3: is just math.
Speaker 2: It's it's just fact. It's a fact.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you right now, this is why I'm this.
Speaker 1: This shit is just came right on time. Man, I'm black.
Speaker 1: Because the thing is, like I was telling you, like
Speaker 1: that was an opportunity and it didn't come from me.
Speaker 1: It came from somebody who's been in here for twenty
Speaker 1: seven years, and he gave you the same ism that
Speaker 1: I gave you when we was hollering. So you see
Speaker 1: that from twenty seven years ago when he was outside,
Speaker 1: it's the same shit probably where he looking at it
Speaker 1: like it's turned up a little more. And what he
Speaker 1: was talking about the fact that I got a little
Speaker 1: bit of that was if I was outside, I could
Speaker 1: run down to the rect Center where I didn't need
Speaker 1: no sign up or nothing. I was a kid, Hey,
Speaker 1: come in here, you know deeds to play wool whoop,
Speaker 1: and you do something wrong, you get your ass whooped there,
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna call your house or take you
Speaker 1: home to your mama, and then you're gonna get another
Speaker 1: ass whooping there. That sense of community, that sense of
Speaker 1: community is lost now that is no longer there.
Speaker 2: That's I hear you.
Speaker 1: That's that's that's a that's a problem. But it just
Speaker 1: sounded like to the point when I think about it,
Speaker 1: in y'all community, you feel me, y'all, don't worry about
Speaker 1: no type of ship like that because everything else.
Speaker 5: I mean, we don't. I mean, to be honest with you,
Speaker 5: we've been blessed and it's not right.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure like it's a good or a bad thing.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying as far as are like problems, right,
Speaker 1: this is a huge issue going home not knowing if
Speaker 1: tonight I'm going eat And that's just like that's serious though, right,
Speaker 1: because you think about when you come home, like yeah,
Speaker 1: I just had school or whatever, like damn, moms ain't here. Fuck,
Speaker 1: we ain't got no the lights ain't on. Damn. I
Speaker 1: just hope and just pray that it's gonna be at
Speaker 1: least a peanut butter sandwich or a syrup soundwich or
Speaker 1: you feel me though, I hope it's some spam in
Speaker 1: a like and you come home to not team your
Speaker 1: stomach started doing that, putting that hole on you, choking
Speaker 1: the shit out you, like, what the hold on? I
Speaker 1: can't I'm about to die. I gotta survive what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do. I'm a kid. Ain't nobody there ain't nobody
Speaker 1: to say, hey, look, hold on, fin the you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, make this wish sandwich? You fear me though,
Speaker 1: or whatever, And it's now I gotta go outside and
Speaker 1: get something to eat. How I don't know, But what
Speaker 1: I seen or what I heard, and that one home
Speaker 1: rey night leads you into a situation like this was
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I just wanted a piece of his
Speaker 1: chicken and he turned and I By the.
Speaker 5: Way, it's it's such a powerful thing to say.
Speaker 4: And most people in the world and everything about that,
Speaker 4: they think, why this guy do this?
Speaker 5: What happened here?
Speaker 2: They have no idea that.
Speaker 1: Board, right, and you looking at that paperwork. The paperwork
Speaker 1: ain't gonna say that. It's not gonna say that, this
Speaker 1: is why this kid was here and did what. He's
Speaker 1: not gonna say that. And then you're looking at that
Speaker 1: paper and I'm not saying you personally, but they get
Speaker 1: that paper and they look at that name and it's
Speaker 1: I throw that motherfucker. Or if they get that paper
Speaker 1: they look at that picture and they throw that motherfucker.
Speaker 1: Or they get that paperwork and they look at the
Speaker 1: black and white on it in this it won't say that.
Speaker 1: But how do we get to it? Explain that? And
Speaker 1: then from the ship that do really do be going
Speaker 1: on to who is a fucked up situation?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean you're right, I mean.
Speaker 3: The file I get is everything that happens after that, right,
Speaker 3: and I guess it's just that's the lesson you know
Speaker 3: you can It's it's not what happens, it's what you
Speaker 3: do with what happens that determine your fate in future.
Speaker 3: And it's it's everything that happened. It's the folks that
Speaker 3: will survive and thrive on the outside are folks that
Speaker 3: understand that I can't make up for the past. I'm
Speaker 3: not the worst thing I ever did. Just because you
Speaker 3: know I stole something doesn't mean I'm a thief, doesn't.
Speaker 2: Mean I am a thief.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: And those that go on a journey of discovery and
Speaker 3: they can demonstrate that, those are the folks that that's
Speaker 3: what I read, and that's the journey.
Speaker 2: That I want to support.
Speaker 3: And then the work beyond this conversation is the work
Speaker 3: about how do I see a different future?
Speaker 2: How do I these things? From the beginning, And I
Speaker 2: don't want.
Speaker 3: To even bore you with the bullshit politicking or politics
Speaker 3: of pre natal goddamn care or zero to three or
Speaker 3: early head start or childcare or high quality tutoring and
Speaker 3: mentorship and addressing learning disabilities and all the bullshit that
Speaker 3: is real. Where we got to begin at the beginning
Speaker 3: to address these cycles of violence, ignorance, and disease. But
Speaker 3: both of those things have to happen. But the thing
Speaker 3: we're trying to control for here is what we are
Speaker 3: responsible for while people are here. And this California modelman
Speaker 3: is taking the best ideas from around the rest of
Speaker 3: the world and across this country and bringing the bear
Speaker 3: and one of the coolest and most amazing things for me,
Speaker 3: that's revelatory. And I hope you appreciate this, Doug and
Speaker 3: Marshaun is we're actually in quite literally one of the
Speaker 3: great rehabilitation programs in American history. What San Quentin News
Speaker 3: is represented to inmates here for years and years and years,
Speaker 3: and the opportunity. I remember we were here just a
Speaker 3: few months ago and there was a kid who said,
Speaker 3: all is ever since he got into the system, his
Speaker 3: dream was to get into this room, he said, and
Speaker 3: I swear to God true story. We were sitting he
Speaker 3: was right behind me and he's sitting there and said,
Speaker 3: you know what I finally got here.
Speaker 2: I said, that's amazing. Goes.
Speaker 3: No, you know what was amazing is when I had
Speaker 3: my byline on San quent News and I said, that's
Speaker 3: amazing goes, no, no, you know it was really amazing,
Speaker 3: he says. When I called my mom and she got
Speaker 3: a copy of it, and she said the words I
Speaker 3: never heard her say in my life, true story, I'm
Speaker 3: proud of you. And he said that just it brought
Speaker 3: me it, just I'm proud of you.
Speaker 1: Do you know what what's crazy is Like I'm saying,
Speaker 1: like I've been up here to visit my pops and shit. Right,
Speaker 1: but as I started to like think about it, memories
Speaker 1: and shit like that ship that you know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to hold in here like I thought about it,
Speaker 1: I said, noam you know what, I've never heard my
Speaker 1: my pops tell my mother I love you. And then
Speaker 1: I can't even remember if he ever even told me
Speaker 1: some shit like that, you feel me, So it would
Speaker 1: be the little wins like you feel me when you
Speaker 1: get him, like you gotta stack them motherfuckers up? So
Speaker 1: is he here? No, it's not okay, say shit, I
Speaker 1: want to get that man out. What's having my boy?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: You feel me? But you're like that be a part
Speaker 1: of the like the healing process. Yeah, that's where it started,
Speaker 1: Like ooh shit, I felt something like what the fuck
Speaker 1: just happened. Oh that didn't feel right, but it felt good.
Speaker 1: Oh what the fuck is that?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Get that shit off me, typ hold on. But I
Speaker 1: liked it though a little bit. Let me try to
Speaker 1: figure out what's going on. So then those kind of programs, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean that that hit me in a different way
Speaker 3: because all of a sudden, I mean, that guy's on
Speaker 3: the path.
Speaker 5: And how old was he a recovery? He's a kid, bro,
Speaker 5: he was nineteen twenty and.
Speaker 3: He's yeah, he's a kid if he was twenty two three,
Speaker 3: I mean, the kid and he's gonna be here probably
Speaker 3: a couple of decades, or he may be here the
Speaker 3: rest of his goddamn life, may die here if he
Speaker 3: doesn't get his ship together. But he's on a different pathway,
Speaker 3: And there's power in those words. Man power in the
Speaker 3: wordst then what his mom never said to him and
Speaker 3: like and here he is sharing.
Speaker 2: It openly to a bunch of folks.
Speaker 3: Man, So it goes to your I mean what you
Speaker 3: just said about your pops, your mom, those things, it's
Speaker 3: a those are powerful, powerful words.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, that's how you going.
Speaker 2: We're going to death row.
Speaker 1: Let's go to death row.
Speaker 2: Wait a second, I'm coming round with that. Yeah, get
Speaker 2: get old.
Speaker 3: Get your ass over here, Jesus Christ litterally, my bucking
Speaker 3: little league guy.
Speaker 2: I told you, I told you it's good, all right? Yeah, absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 2: I woke up.
Speaker 1: That's the best thing I can do. Thanks.
Speaker 2: What so how what? How long you been here now?
Speaker 1: Two years now too? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And you were aware before.
Speaker 1: Season nough for two and a half years, and James
Speaker 1: sounds like three weeks.
Speaker 2: And then I was here before that for almost ten years. Jesus,
Speaker 2: So how much more time.
Speaker 1: Would I go back in FORO in? Two years?
Speaker 2: In two years?
Speaker 5: All right?
Speaker 2: So that's around the corner.
Speaker 7: And you're senior dougka Hey, tell Doug how we know
Speaker 7: each other?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah?
Speaker 5: Really well literally?
Speaker 8: Uh?
Speaker 2: Ten season twin city lit.
Speaker 3: Bro.
Speaker 4: Now, let me ask you a question. I'm telling you
Speaker 4: right now. He was a decent player, but you were
Speaker 4: much better than he was. I can tell right now.
Speaker 6: All right, Hey, he did all right till until he
Speaker 6: ran into Kirk Yaeling and broke his arm.
Speaker 7: Well there was that, See, Jesus, I mean a guy
Speaker 7: who remembers Kurt yealing, I'll feel the sacond based patient.
Speaker 1: Okay, Uh, he was actually one year ahead of men?
Speaker 4: Would you be could you have a chance keep going
Speaker 4: a plane.
Speaker 1: In high school and college? Yeah? The choices I made right?
Speaker 3: But but but when did you start making the crazy choices?
Speaker 1: Quick them? Baseball?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 3: So these I went from hanging out with guys like
Speaker 3: you and others, You're hanging out with guys.
Speaker 1: Like, hey, what do you want to do? Let's go
Speaker 1: get right and.
Speaker 5: What are you in here for?
Speaker 1: Btrike?
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, so you're not You're not getting out, You're
Speaker 4: you're right now.
Speaker 2: No, he's mean, he's coming up from eating right.
Speaker 1: Now twenty eight and Jesus, I got a five years
Speaker 1: now just for a prison Davor.
Speaker 4: Let me ask questions as the crew you have back
Speaker 4: in the day, the family are they do they?
Speaker 5: Are they involving you now you see him?
Speaker 2: Or is this your family here now?
Speaker 5: Or what's your family?
Speaker 1: Mainly here? My friends are here. I've been in throughout life,
Speaker 1: and I'll just struggle in here.
Speaker 3: Uh but no, because when I first felt there wasn't
Speaker 3: a lot of communications.
Speaker 1: The lines are so expensive at the time, and then
Speaker 1: everyone has their own life.
Speaker 6: You know, they're you know, they're in the mid twenties,
Speaker 6: they're trying to start a family in their careers, you know,
Speaker 6: and they're still trying to fun.
Speaker 3: He knows Hillary, you know Hillary, Okay, okay, crazy, that's crazy,
Speaker 3: little man.
Speaker 2: So it was the drugs that sort of left that.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, absolutely, you know, it was uh, you know,
Speaker 1: everything once I quit playing ball. And that's that's to
Speaker 1: tell these guys because now I'm coaching on the team.
Speaker 2: Oh you're coaching mentally? Is sitting there? You're looking You're
Speaker 2: played right there over the La Soul.
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, is it like you're like, oh
Speaker 4: my god, it played little right there and now I'm
Speaker 4: right here.
Speaker 1: Yes, everywhere I look. I have a memory. Yeah. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, yeah, it's knowing that I'm sober.
Speaker 1: You know, I went to school five. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: my house ten minutes.
Speaker 6: The house is about seven minutes.
Speaker 5: I appreciate you keep going.
Speaker 8: What was it a roundable red table around round table pizza?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was our team right on.
Speaker 1: Yeah that in the court Madero one in the court there.
Speaker 1: But I guess they put a bank there or something exactly.
Speaker 1: There's a bank there.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're getting old. Yeah, it's good to see you again.
Speaker 2: You guys get to go take care.
Speaker 7: Good you look, I mean, the only thing that the
Speaker 7: only way this thing works is you guys make it work, man,
Speaker 7: And the whole idea is I mean, honestly, I'm not exaggerating.
Speaker 7: If we can make what's about to be unveiled on
Speaker 7: the other side of that wall and just tenexting the programming,
Speaker 7: and if if we can see the results of that,
Speaker 7: then we're gonna spread it in every damn prison and
Speaker 7: it's a big goddamn deal.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's going to be picked up by
Speaker 1: other states?
Speaker 2: That's the whole idea because everything California does.
Speaker 6: Man, already, wait, thank you, thank you, appreciate it.
Speaker 8: I ain't gonna happen, but I appreciate you, Man, President,
Speaker 8: I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you for giving us hope. My name is just
Speaker 2: in my little thanks for everything you do. For appreciate man,
Speaker 2: Thank you. Uh, we got a lot of work to
Speaker 2: do here, bro.
Speaker 9: I've been here in my whole dull life, and I've
Speaker 9: never had this much hope.
Speaker 5: I love it in the future for us that's incarcerated people.
Speaker 2: So it's a lot of that.
Speaker 1: Comes from you and the work you do.
Speaker 8: Appreciate it, brother, that means a lot. Keep it up, brother,
Speaker 8: Keep it up, guys. I'm good brother.
Speaker 5: How you doing.
Speaker 2: You're blessed. I love that.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 2: That's a good attitude. Take care of man Ward.
Speaker 4: How many people were here at one time when this
Speaker 4: thing was fifty twenty years ago, in in death row.
Speaker 10: So we had close to seven hundred, believe seven hundred
Speaker 10: people on death row when I when I got here,
Speaker 10: we had uh we have five over five hundred on
Speaker 10: death row on death row and they've all been moved
Speaker 10: out since.
Speaker 4: Was that the biggest of any state, any state?
Speaker 1: I would say yes.
Speaker 6: I don't know though those data numbers for sure, but
Speaker 6: I would because as much as we have, you bro.
Speaker 4: And how many people, how many people on a year,
Speaker 4: on a year basis were put to death.
Speaker 6: The people's process is very wrong, so it wouldn't be yearly.
Speaker 6: It would actually be sometimes five.
Speaker 3: Years, five years, So Doug, over the course of just
Speaker 3: the last couple couple months, they've I mean not even
Speaker 3: just a couple of months, I mean over the course
Speaker 3: of the last couple of years, they've been decommissioning death
Speaker 3: row and doing a risk assessment for everybody aside who
Speaker 3: comes off.
Speaker 2: But this thing when we start it was completely fooled up.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And you know these are you can see these single cells.
Speaker 3: Anytime someone came out.
Speaker 2: Of the cell.
Speaker 3: You can see the cages that they came in right
Speaker 3: over here. We'll go to the yard and you can
Speaker 3: tell me how great that is.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you can appreciate the yard differently.
Speaker 5: Yes, Scott Peterson was here.
Speaker 1: We actually have another horse.
Speaker 6: Segregation was actually iron came up and honor that will
Speaker 6: get it. They were programmers, so they would actually it's
Speaker 6: another building on top and their yard was on top
Speaker 6: of that building, and they were considered.
Speaker 4: Honored, meaning like they were.
Speaker 6: They didn't have any disciplinary issues.
Speaker 2: Oh god, I gotta work your way up there. I
Speaker 2: think the most no bullshit.
Speaker 3: The first time I came in, the most alarming thing
Speaker 3: was not what is it behind you? It was just
Speaker 3: seeing people in these things, wow, and going what the
Speaker 3: hell is this? You know, it's like a I mean
Speaker 3: that's this is these by the way, these are all
Speaker 3: going right, they're all going yeah the outside.
Speaker 2: I yeah, we'll show these guys. You have me selling
Speaker 2: you guys want to go past each other?
Speaker 5: You go back, you're saying, you're saying there be two
Speaker 5: people in these.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's one person on top of person on bottom.
Speaker 2: So if we share this cell with somebody else, whenever
Speaker 2: I need to.
Speaker 6: Go to the back of the cell and we go
Speaker 6: back to back, so Gavin would put his chest up
Speaker 6: against the rack.
Speaker 2: I put my chest up against the wall, and we like,
Speaker 2: not back to back, going back to that way, that way,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, back to the bay.
Speaker 11: So it's just the size of the cells in the
Speaker 11: main in the part of the prison tent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the same size.
Speaker 12: Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2: You got another the buildings doesn't have that bar right
Speaker 2: there against the wall.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 5: These were all single cells, right, I mean from death row.
Speaker 12: Yes, they were all sulf Now you make someone have one, right,
Speaker 12: It's funny with me.
Speaker 5: If people were here.
Speaker 2: Till win one year, till a people once ago, weeks ago,
Speaker 2: they were just.
Speaker 6: Here literally, and some people went to another and two
Speaker 6: together and they ended up selling out to guess it.
Speaker 2: Okay, but I want to I want to show him
Speaker 2: some of them. Yeah, here's a more seeing Doug, go
Speaker 2: to the chapel.
Speaker 9: Yeah, please the chapel. Wow, chaplin right there. But I
Speaker 9: thought this was just this was just from death row. Yeah,
Speaker 9: we're just you know, looking up with the bomb wire
Speaker 9: and everything.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 11: Yeah, and they and they would Chap will be right
Speaker 11: there right, And this should be once twice a day,
Speaker 11: once a week, once a week, once a week, that's it.
Speaker 2: Once a week.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, and then you probably had your your most talkative
Speaker 3: and may was literally right there in the corner, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But yeah, if you want these these these cells when
Speaker 3: they're in the Wow, this is crazy. Yeah, no, it's uh,
Speaker 3: the first time I came in here, the most surreal thing, honestly,
Speaker 3: the most serial things. How many people recognize me, like
Speaker 3: almost without exception, and then when they heard your name
Speaker 3: and then just to hear your voices up top, you forget,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, being a mayor being out there
Speaker 2: in public. I mean, that's that's that's.
Speaker 1: Just it was to me.
Speaker 2: It was a sort of eery experience.
Speaker 4: And again, did the attorneys come in and eating these
Speaker 4: guys in here or is there another area where the
Speaker 4: attorneys come.
Speaker 1: In and they would go to our visiting area a
Speaker 1: visitor Yeah, but but so this all.
Speaker 3: At least for the interim, they're gonna take the these
Speaker 3: these out and then they're cleaning them in.
Speaker 2: You're in the rites feels all my cleaner, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Clean up, and the mills start bringing decompressing the general population,
Speaker 3: getting rid of some double bunks and bringing people in here.
Speaker 1: Oh, you've put prisoners back into here.
Speaker 12: We're gonna redo though, We're gonna, we're gonna if we
Speaker 12: want to change the image. You don't want to associate
Speaker 12: it with what it was. But the single cell is
Speaker 12: very important to a lot of these individuals because, like
Speaker 12: we were talking about, you know, there's some scenarios where
Speaker 12: you really can't choose it, you as.
Speaker 13: We have even these in the same size as the
Speaker 13: main block. Yes, right, two people in the additions all
Speaker 13: there's no business. They're all the same communits correct to
Speaker 13: swe no sweets.
Speaker 1: I mean there are some things we can do.
Speaker 2: I think you saw the larger ones down there.
Speaker 6: You know, we want to make kitchen ads and areas
Speaker 6: where they we'll get you know, microwaving through. We're gonna
Speaker 6: do different things to normalize.
Speaker 1: Good time there.
Speaker 2: We walked through there, so we're gonna just quickly show
Speaker 2: them into the yard.
Speaker 6: Yes, they've evolved a long time. They're currently called individual
Speaker 6: exercise guards. It's proper.
Speaker 1: But as you can see, it's pretty much just do so.
Speaker 3: For the condemned inmates that come here for their quote
Speaker 3: unquote exercise. But we're read of Marshall all this is
Speaker 3: gone and so we're gonna have this for program, for yard,
Speaker 3: for whatever else didn't move September DA.
Speaker 1: So you're gonna see, like, bro, you act like you
Speaker 1: on what's that home home renovation? Oh yeah, and this
Speaker 1: right here, this used to be my single cell incarcerated area.
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna tear it down. And I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put a something right here with a gauz
Speaker 1: z bo and ship like what you're talking about? Man,
Speaker 1: you need to kick his ass up out of here.
Speaker 1: You just walking around this motherfucker like a grown man
Speaker 1: at uh Disney World or something not Disney World.
Speaker 2: Brother, this I just for years we've been talking about this.
Speaker 2: It's finally happening. It's a big deal.
Speaker 1: So do you understand what it do to me? Like
Speaker 1: I'm not like you know, I watched Ship. I see
Speaker 1: Ship and then it it fucked with me.
Speaker 4: And just so.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, Like I don't want to
Speaker 1: keep getting reminded of that ship, Like get it. I
Speaker 1: get I get unless, but look, if we going there,
Speaker 1: me and you and the gloves, then I'll go in there.
Speaker 1: What's that? What the two of us don't mean the
Speaker 1: don't be in there with you for like forty five seconds,
Speaker 1: just me and you. You could lock the door, locked
Speaker 1: it on, give you the he is that clean?
Speaker 2: Just blackout?
Speaker 9: Damn damn grind And I wake up in Marine General Hospital.
Speaker 1: Like, no, we're gonna take you to We're gonna take
Speaker 1: you to Highland. We'll get to We'll get to the hospital.
Speaker 1: Christ full manice back down here right if you don't
Speaker 1: have to go, We're gonna you want to see the
Speaker 1: gas chamber and say, hell no, I really don't want
Speaker 1: to see that, sick ass. But who the fuck be stinking.
Speaker 8: Ship like, because it's important to understand it's not the
Speaker 8: barbaric nature of the past, So.
Speaker 1: Don't they want to write that motherfucker up right now?
Speaker 1: It's just my day that I'm here. I want to
Speaker 1: make sure that should work.
Speaker 3: It's on the outside.
Speaker 2: It's literally outside.
Speaker 1: You no my history, dude, ship, who would be making
Speaker 1: your mind even thinking? I just wonder if I just
Speaker 1: put somebody in this little place and just put on
Speaker 1: this gash in it and wonder what they would happen
Speaker 1: to him? Why would you want to do that?
Speaker 2: That's this is the ald Gaston, not when we did this.
Speaker 1: Decoration since decades.
Speaker 13: They would they would be in there and the family
Speaker 13: would be out here, and it's just the guys would
Speaker 13: come in here.
Speaker 5: They're saying it.
Speaker 1: That's some white people ship for sure.
Speaker 6: Why if we go outside, you can see the exhaust.
Speaker 3: At the the smost.
Speaker 5: History's history.
Speaker 2: Bro, No, what was the process.
Speaker 1: Today?
Speaker 2: Coming from a one other sections and somewhere.
Speaker 1: Else, they're not coming from this work.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a back there's a back way to come
Speaker 6: in here. So it's actually by at the end of
Speaker 6: the east block of North Block.
Speaker 1: There's access to here yet.
Speaker 2: So they were just walking down.
Speaker 9: It was like forty years ago.
Speaker 6: I think it was like the last time, so before
Speaker 6: my time. So I went actual problem because leaf injection
Speaker 6: came after, right, so that we have a leathal injection.
Speaker 6: They tried to clean it up.
Speaker 14: Try to clean it up, right, and that's been litigated
Speaker 14: because it's all the cocktails were so lenses used the
Speaker 14: victims family.
Speaker 1: Well, I got it.
Speaker 5: I gotta be honest.
Speaker 4: Gavin. I mean this right here was the weirdest part
Speaker 4: of the day man.
Speaker 5: Walking out of the gas chamber.
Speaker 4: In nineteen eighty, when I was sixteen, seventeen years old,
Speaker 4: this thing still existed. I mean, I got it's I
Speaker 4: got a weird, weird feel right now walking out of
Speaker 4: their mouth.
Speaker 3: And you should because there's dozens and dozens of people
Speaker 3: today that could be get condemned to death. And of
Speaker 3: course we're using more humane means now with leth injection,
Speaker 3: but that's just literally right next door. But the idea,
Speaker 3: the gas chamber, even leth injection, used to line people
Speaker 3: up and shoot them, hang people.
Speaker 1: So you know, there's a It don't sound a little
Speaker 1: bit strange, y'all that when y'all be talking about this,
Speaker 1: it's like the people y'all talk about, is they.
Speaker 2: Look like me disproportionate.
Speaker 1: Man, That ship is fucked up, Like that's y'all, that's.
Speaker 3: Because it's fucked moratorium, meaning I stopped it that.
Speaker 2: We would have been doing you'd have been reading about.
Speaker 2: There have been protests right outside these gates.
Speaker 3: We would quite literally put the ability to put a
Speaker 3: couple dozen or a dozen people to death.
Speaker 4: Just before this, we saw death row, which was death row,
Speaker 4: and for them to be in the cells that you
Speaker 4: couldn't even move.
Speaker 5: And then go into cages, I mean just to get
Speaker 5: to the yard.
Speaker 4: Unbelievable in terms of uh, you know, how they're living.
Speaker 5: So I applause, you for get rid of this.
Speaker 2: Well, it was the largest one in the largest one.
Speaker 3: And it's not just in America, in the entire Western hemisphere.
Speaker 3: We're one of the few countries on planet Earth, one
Speaker 3: of the few that still executes people. I mean the Yemen,
Speaker 3: in China, countries, the Western democracies have ended the death party.
Speaker 1: Nah, you know what I just thought about right now?
Speaker 1: Damn standing next to you talking like this and you say,
Speaker 1: certain shit is way bigger than just having a conversation.
Speaker 1: The motherfuckna take it and blow that shit way out
Speaker 1: of proportion. We probably should get to the point where
Speaker 1: we don't have none of that ship. I think the
Speaker 1: rehabilitation thing, we we probably need to take that shit
Speaker 1: a little bit further. We're helping then incarcerated just like that.
Speaker 1: They don't call them inmates, call them cacerated. But to
Speaker 1: help you feel me, because god, damn you think about
Speaker 1: you been saying that it's a lot now caught on
Speaker 1: to it. The humane that's it. We probably need to
Speaker 1: get more of that type of shit. Well.
Speaker 4: To hear your story, end up food in the house, Galvin,
Speaker 4: I didn't grow up that way, so you did. And
Speaker 4: and to think the choices you can make tend up
Speaker 4: in here. Life isn't fair and and the imbalances are
Speaker 4: are This is a perfect example of it.
Speaker 1: But the thing you get that it's not fair, right,
Speaker 1: But the thing is somebody implemented a system for it
Speaker 1: to be that particular way. It's just that I get
Speaker 1: the short end of the stick when it come to
Speaker 1: that shit.
Speaker 2: Is that this old fray society becomes how we behave.
Speaker 3: This has happened on our watch. This has happened on
Speaker 3: our watch. This is not someone else's problem. This is
Speaker 3: the world we have created. And so we all have
Speaker 3: some responsibility and some accountability.
Speaker 1: Yep. So when you go around for president, but I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, you gotta bring me with you. You
Speaker 1: can get you from the you feel me level talk
Speaker 1: about because we don't have your level. But then you're
Speaker 1: gonna need do you feel me level.
Speaker 10: Me?
Speaker 1: And who are we kind of talk on the level.
Speaker 2: President President about you gonna have you feel.
Speaker 1: Me speak to do you feel me? When you spoke
Speaker 1: to the you feel me? That's how I do want
Speaker 1: to say that like you as you feel mean.
Speaker 2: I want to say quick is this.
Speaker 4: I want to appreciate you because you are the new
Speaker 4: wave of this and you're not the wave that you
Speaker 4: see and you hear about whatnot where you know you're
Speaker 4: the guy in shawsh a redemption. You're these different You're
Speaker 4: doing the new way because that's what it's all about.
Speaker 4: So I appreciate this today. It was real and enlightening
Speaker 4: and scary.
Speaker 5: In the world.
Speaker 4: So I appreciate what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Because you were doing a ship. They wouldn't like, oh
Speaker 1: here it is Assholen ship. They were. It was for sure,
Speaker 1: it was different.
Speaker 4: They know you had the which is really cool to
Speaker 4: see man, because I was not expecting.
Speaker 2: But Doug, you know, also he is back.
Speaker 3: I mean the people that these folks have hurt as well.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is not about being soft on crime.
Speaker 3: This is not about absolving any responsibility.
Speaker 2: Quite the contrary.
Speaker 3: People make a mistake, they have to not only live
Speaker 3: with that, they have to pay the price for the
Speaker 3: mistake they made. But again the reality is tens of
Speaker 3: thousands of people are released every single year back into
Speaker 3: your neighborhood. Do you want them to come back angry,
Speaker 3: with a chip on their shoulder, less productive and constructive,
Speaker 3: more likely to commit a crime again, or take the
Speaker 3: time to humanize and address the underlying reasons why they're
Speaker 3: so broken in the first place. And that's the approach
Speaker 3: the war and sane and that's what this California model
Speaker 3: is about.
Speaker 4: Twenty thirty people I met today are more compassionate at
Speaker 4: a deeper heart than a lot of people I see
Speaker 4: every day walking the streets going to stores at the DM.
Speaker 4: I mean, it is real, these guys. It's they got it.
Speaker 4: And what you're doing ward works work.
Speaker 2: And what's so?
Speaker 3: I think you hear you've lived it in all the
Speaker 3: work you've done. But I keep experience every time I
Speaker 3: come back. The folks have said t X number of
Speaker 3: years ago. I had no hope, and so I acted accordingly.
Speaker 3: I didn't give a damn about myself, I didn't give
Speaker 3: a damn about my cellmate, I didn't give a damn.
Speaker 2: About the warden of the guards.
Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, you guys started giving us hope.
Speaker 1: That if we.
Speaker 3: Program, we do the right thing, if we're more empathetic,
Speaker 3: if we address the issues of the violence we did
Speaker 3: outside these gates, and then maybe we have a chance
Speaker 3: to get the hell out of here.
Speaker 2: And that mindset is pretty powerful, and I hope it's
Speaker 2: it's paying dividends for.
Speaker 3: All the extraordinary staff that you have and and the
Speaker 3: hard work these guards do every single day. And I
Speaker 3: made this point about the California We don't want to
Speaker 3: do this to the guards. We want to do it
Speaker 3: with the guards, but nor do we want to do
Speaker 3: it to the inmates. We want to get there there
Speaker 3: they're incarcerated. We want to get their council advice. And
Speaker 3: you've created these advisory committees that are inclusive not only
Speaker 3: people on the inside, but on the outside that have
Speaker 3: real experience, lived experience here at said Quentin.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that hope is safety for all of us.
Speaker 6: We walk in here and you feel the vibe. The
Speaker 6: vibe is kind of different. Right any given day you
Speaker 6: can walk in here, here a band playing, see a
Speaker 6: softball game going down. You know, we walked and talked
Speaker 6: and shook hands with a bunch of people that live
Speaker 6: and work here, right, and it wasn't this depressing feeling, right,
Speaker 6: So we're trying to make the best of what we got,
Speaker 6: but we got a lot more more to do as well.
Speaker 11: Well.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, thank you.
Speaker 6: I appreciate you, guy, it very much.
Speaker 1: Appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, sir, thank you, thank you. Appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Yes, sir, I'm still trying to figure out how y'all
Speaker 1: got the bank b