1 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 2: Max Chafkin, Stacey Vannismith. 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 3: How is your SpaceX stock doing? 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 2: Oh, Stacy, it's. First of all, I am a journalist. 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 4: I don't buy individual stocks, but as we've been talking about, 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 4: you know, many people in the market are exposed to 7 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 4: this stock, and oh boy, it's been a wild ride. 8 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 4: It's SpaceX was briefly like the fourth or fifth most 9 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 4: valuable company in the world. And the stock is down, 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 4: it's up, but yeah, the market has been wild. 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:42,919 Speaker 5: It's a hot market summer. This is Everybody's Business from 12 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 5: Bloomberg BusinessWeek. 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 3: I'm Stacy Vnicksmith. 14 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 2: And I'm Max Chaffin Stacy. 15 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 4: Today on the show, we're talking about the hot market 16 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 4: in all sorts of ways, eight dollars, ice creams, biohacking, 17 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 4: the World Cup. Stacy, we are summer maxing here on 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 4: Everybody's Business. 19 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 5: I've never felt so in tune with the culture. And 20 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 5: I will also pretend I never heard you say that. 21 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: At least I didn't say summer Moggan. 22 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 3: It is summer. 23 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 5: You spoke of summer maxing, and I don't feel like 24 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 5: summer maxing is something that you can really do without. 25 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 6: Ice cream, Well, I do it without ice cream, but 26 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 6: I recognize because I have small children, that ice cream 27 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 6: is an important component of happiness, well pretty much at 28 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 6: any time, but especially in the summer. 29 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 4: And I have to say, you've been talking about this. 30 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 4: Because you've been you wrote a story about it. It's 31 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 4: online now, it's in the New Business Week. But ice 32 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 4: cream has gotten super expensive, and we wanted to talk 33 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 4: about this, but we also wanted to kind of broaden 34 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 4: the conversation to inflation, to markets and so on. So 35 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 4: we brought in the guy we turned to when we 36 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 4: want to talk about inflation, our man David Popadopolis, Bloomberg editor, 37 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 4: as well as the former host. 38 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 2: Of Elon inc Rip David, Hello. 39 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: Max Stacy, how you guys doing good? 40 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 5: So, David, we wanted to bring you in for this 41 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 5: part of the show and then pivot to larger economic forces. 42 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 5: Because as I was reporting this ice cream story, which 43 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 5: the idea was born, because we were getting just like 44 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 5: an ice cream truck ice cream here in New York 45 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 5: and the cost totaled nine dollars. So we went on 46 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 5: a quest to see what was going on with ice 47 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 5: cream prices, and it turns out that global forces have 48 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 5: kind of converged onto the humble ice cream cone, between 49 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 5: food inflation, the price of fuel like the diesel that 50 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 5: runs the trucks going up, all the energy prices going 51 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 5: up from cold storage for ice cream. And so we 52 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 5: sent our producer Jasmine JT. Green and Miles J. Ferson 53 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 5: Horn out into the streets of New York to talk 54 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 5: with people about ice cream prices. 55 00:02:58,880 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: And what'd you get? 56 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 3: Year is what we got. 57 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: How much of this ice cream cost you? 58 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 7: Ten bucks? Ten dollars? I left a five dollars tip, 59 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 7: No three, No, no, there's twelve dollars. 60 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: It was about twelve dollars. 61 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 8: Oh my gosh, about ten eleven dollars, About ten eleven dollars, Yeah, 62 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 8: twelve dollars. 63 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: For each one, for each one. When you guys were younger, 64 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: you remember what the cost of ice cream was then. 65 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 7: I'm seventy six years old, it was probably about a quarter. 66 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: When I used to have it a couple of years ago, 67 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: it was only seven dollars. 68 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 8: Really a dollar fifty for three two years over fifty 69 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 8: three pzzels. It's about a quarter dollar nowadays, depending on 70 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 8: the franchise, because you know there is hagging. Dad there 71 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 8: is ven and Jerry's, but in a conventional ice cream 72 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 8: shop or parlor, it's maybe thirty peszels. It's about two 73 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 8: dollars and a half three dollars. 74 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: What do you think is contributing to this rising cough 75 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: of ice cream? 76 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 3: He meets the. 77 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 4: Rise and run in the area that stores need to 78 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 4: get a certain amount to cheap that space. 79 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: We definitely do believe inflation is kind of just it's 80 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 2: a stream at this point. 81 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 9: Yeah, I guess just maybe demand. I think a demand 82 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,799 Speaker 9: for like ice cream has gone up a lot, and 83 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 9: especially like things like gelato that are like trendy right now. 84 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: Is it still worth it? 85 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 7: It's worth it. 86 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 4: It's worth it. 87 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 7: If there's a plus to the high prices. It will 88 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 7: help people on a diet because you eat less or 89 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 7: share one instead of getting too. 90 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 2: Who are these people that get their own ice cream cone? 91 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 2: Is what I want to say? Oh, I always? 92 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 3: What do you have them brought to you? 93 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 2: Max? Max shares with his I share. I never. It's 94 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,559 Speaker 2: like one one serving for every two to three. 95 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 3: This is the nightmare. When you're a kid. 96 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 5: There's always the adult who's like, I'll have a bite 97 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 5: of your deserts and that is not don't do that 98 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 5: to your kids, get your own ice cream. 99 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 3: But ten bucks. What do you think of this, David, 100 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 3: listening to all this. 101 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: Well, I mean I think a bunch of things. First 102 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: of all, I think the guy who gets his ice 103 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: cream for thirty pesos or two and a half dollars, 104 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,359 Speaker 1: that's the place we got to go to. Yeah, I 105 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: mean that's clear to me. 106 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 10: But I. 107 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: Listening to these people, a couple of things come to mind, 108 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: you know. One of them that really jumps out to 109 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: me is and as your story does say, there is 110 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: currently ongoing ice cream inflation as we speak. That is 111 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: absolutely a thing. What's really messing with folks, even a. 112 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: Lot more is. 113 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: Overall sticker shock price level versus current inflation. I think 114 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: some of what they're feeling is the past five six 115 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: years in which inflation overall in this country, including for 116 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: ice cream, has been well over twenty percent, approaching thirty percent. 117 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 2: It just put us at different. 118 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: Price levels, a sticker price level that we have not 119 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: gotten used to and gotten comfortable with. I remember there 120 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 1: was once I really had it with a bag of 121 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: like some sort of bag of fancy nacho chips, and 122 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: it was one bag and it was eight dollars and 123 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 1: ninety nine cents, and I was just like, that's absolutely absurd. 124 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: I will say, like like that guy in there who said, 125 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: you know, he remembers paying ice cream And it was 126 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: a quarter in New York City on Lexington and fifty 127 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: seven to a not far from the office. We used 128 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: to get in the year two thousand and five, we 129 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: used to get great sandwiches, great chicken sandwiches. 130 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 2: For five dollars. 131 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: That seems absurd, right, that seems like five dollars for 132 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: great And some of that is just, Hey, we've been 133 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: through a great inflation surge and we all need to 134 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: get used. 135 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 4: To it, and it's gonna take time, all right, before 136 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 4: we get to chicken sandwiches and kind of in full 137 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 4: I just want to I just want to say there 138 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 4: is another factor we should acknowledge as quickly anyway, which 139 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 4: is that in a lot of categories, you have the 140 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 4: sort of background inflation that David's talking about, but you 141 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 4: also have this kind of luxuriization of various markets. And 142 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 4: that I think has happened for sure Stacey and ice Cream, right, 143 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 4: like a lot of these companies maybe partly in response 144 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 4: to inflation, maybe in response to just other factors have 145 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 4: sort of pushed. 146 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: Into the higher end. 147 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 4: There's more money at that top point of the k 148 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 4: which is then driving prices up further because there are 149 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 4: fewer kind of like budget ice cream options than there 150 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 4: were in the David Papadopolis five dollars sandwich era. 151 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, we did discover that, which is that ice cream 152 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 5: shops that tend to charge lower prices like Carvel and 153 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 5: Baskin Robbins have actually been closing shops and Dairy Queen, 154 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 5: whereas like the Van Lewins where Cone costs eight bucks, 155 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 5: and Jenny's and like Millis sort of premium shops have 156 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 5: been opening opening. And one of the things that seemed 157 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 5: to come up was that because things have become increasingly unaffordable, 158 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 5: ice cream has become kind of a small luxury experience. 159 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 3: So maybe you can't afford to take your family out. 160 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 5: To dinner or on a road trip right now, but 161 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 5: you can take them out to ice cream, so you 162 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 5: actually want a fancier ice cream so that it feels special. 163 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 5: That was something we heard a lot too. I'm wondering, David, 164 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 5: if you're hearing that in other parts of the economy, 165 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 5: you know. 166 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely feel like companies, you know, coming 167 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: out of the pandemic have very very much figured out 168 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: the way to play the inflation game and how to 169 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: in a world of rising prices, how to effectively jack 170 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: up their own prices as much as they can while 171 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: keeping volume going and keeping customers coming in. Absolutely pushing 172 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: them into more luxury products is a good way of 173 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: doing that. Now, no, this isn't the same thing you 174 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: were eating before, Max, Now it's like this new thing. 175 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 5: The last couple inflation reports, we have seen inflation outpacing wages, 176 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 5: which is a very big problem. But we have potentially 177 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 5: turned a corner here this week. The Straight of horn 178 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 5: Moves is apparently reopening, and a lot of the source 179 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 5: of inflation, especially recently this year, has been the closure 180 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 5: of the Straight of horn Moves and oil prices going 181 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 5: up so much, and of course that gets into everything 182 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 5: that is shipped, which is bathing. So are we potentially 183 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 5: going to see inflation come back down? And I mean, 184 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 5: if that's the thing dragging on the market right now, 185 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 5: are we potentially going to see that drag let up 186 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 5: and things really start to go. 187 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no doubt that as weil comes down, Inflation 188 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 1: will come down. I still don't think though, that anybody's 189 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: expectation is it brings it down enough to really get 190 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: you back to two percent target. Kevin worsh the new 191 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: chair at the Federal Reserve first press conference yesterday, he 192 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: was emphatic. He was emphatic that we at the Federal 193 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: Reserve have failed on inflation these past five years, and 194 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: we're going to fix it. And he just brought up 195 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: price stability again and again and. 196 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 3: Again Trump a little bit and. 197 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: Then again and again. You know, in the world of 198 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: central banking, there are hawks and doves. The hawks are about, 199 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: you know, driving down inflation and price stability. The doves 200 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: are about, you know, loose loose monetary policy, low interest rates, 201 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: create as many jobs as possible. Kevin war showed up 202 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: for his first press conference dressed as a hawk. 203 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 4: Trump has a view of the inflation situation that we 204 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 4: really need to I think we should hear and consider. 205 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 11: Well. 206 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 4: You can service to President about the latest inflation number 207 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 4: which came out this morning. Could that be a no? 208 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 2: I love it, you know what, I really love I 209 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 2: love the inflation. 210 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 11: You know what, because as soon as this war zone 211 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 11: where you know, I can say it now something he 212 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 11: didn't know. Do you know we've been taking out millions 213 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 11: of barrels of oil? Nobody knows it. You know, who 214 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 11: doesn't know about it? Iran until right now. 215 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 4: I think these are just words like I'm not sure 216 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 4: that we need to like really look too far in 217 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 4: But I think what he's saying is it's the point 218 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 4: Stacy just made a second ago. Inflation is maybe a 219 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 4: little high now, but it's about to come way down 220 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 4: when you can see, you know, it's gonna look so good, 221 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 4: more superlative. Definitely no need for warsh to raise rates. 222 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 4: That's that's kind of where where Trump's headed. 223 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: I think, well, no, that's absolutely what he's saying there, 224 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: and it's absolutely val like to a certain extent, it's valid. 225 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: Inflation will come down as oil comes down. But again 226 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: it's running right around four percent right now. 227 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 2: Max. 228 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: Because you make so much money and because you're such 229 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: a star here and you get fifteen and twenty percent, 230 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: you know, pay increase. 231 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 2: Now that it's on tape, it has to. 232 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: But to the rest of us, who are you know, 233 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: grinding along getting two percent bumps? 234 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 2: You know, pay raises a year. It matters. 235 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 3: Well, do you. 236 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 5: Think now that let's assume the straight ofform moose stays open, 237 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 5: are we about to see inflation potentially come way down? 238 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: I think there's no doubt that it's going to come down. 239 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: I was just looking at some research on this. Just 240 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: anytime oil comes off that much, and gasoline prices come 241 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: off that much, they have such a big both direct 242 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: effect and knock on effect. 243 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: It'll come down. 244 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: But again, will it come down enough stacy for that disenchanted, 245 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: frustrated worker to say, Hey, okay, I actually feel good 246 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: about this. That look inflation's heading in the right direction. 247 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna back the party in power. I don't know, 248 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I still think that, like you got 249 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 1: from your from your very extensive and terrific ice cream 250 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: price poll, there's a lot of frustration out there about 251 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 1: the cumulative toll of five years of inflation. The other 252 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: thing that's important to remember here is inflation. Getting inflation 253 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: to come down doesn't mean that prices overall go down. 254 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: It just means that they stop raising as rising as 255 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: much as they were before. And what people truly want, 256 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: what they truly want is that that bag of Doritos 257 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: goes from seven dollars back to five dollars and twenty five. 258 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: I want that chicken sandwich again for five dollars. I'm 259 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: not voting for no one until they get my chicken 260 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: sandwich back to five dollars. 261 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 3: A chicken sandwich in every pot. This is This is 262 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 3: David's voting issue exactly. 263 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: David, thank you for being here. 264 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 10: Thanks guys, everyone I know, or at least everyone I 265 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 10: think I know, is talking about about peptides. 266 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 2: These are possibly legal, possibly illegal. 267 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 4: Drugs that can do everything from help you lose weight. 268 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 3: Keeping your skin looking good and right. This is just 269 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 3: an exploding business. 270 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 2: And like half of this is illegal, half of it 271 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: is legal. 272 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 3: It's great. 273 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 10: Great. 274 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 4: There are all these kind of strange characters who are 275 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 4: who are trying to make this happen, including the secretary 276 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 4: of the Department Health Human Services. We have a treat 277 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 4: right now, which is that Amanda Mall, who has been 278 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 4: diving into this world meeting all the characters, is joining 279 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 4: us here now in the Everybody's Business Studio. 280 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 2: Amanda, thank you for being. 281 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 12: Here, Thank you so much for having me. 282 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 4: Can you just explain for people who have like not 283 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 4: missed parts of this discourse, like what is a peptide, Well. 284 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 12: A peptide is it's a short string of amino acids. 285 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 12: Everybody who writes about peptides describes them as a short 286 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 12: string of amino acids. And I've discovered over weeks of 287 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 12: research that's because there's no other way to do it 288 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 12: in a way that makes sense to anybody. Not that 289 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 12: that does, but they are basically molecules that have the 290 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 12: capacity to bind different receptors in your body to toggle 291 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 12: different bodily processes on and off. So like in the 292 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 12: case of GLP ones pe stands for peptide, they bind 293 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 12: to receptors that affect your metabolism. 294 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 4: And these are the way loss drugs that are often 295 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 4: called ozembic and go v it's on. 296 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 12: Zep bound, munjaro, et cetera, et cetera. So they are generally, 297 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 12: in the context that we're talking about them now, they 298 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 12: are generally injectable drugs that affect some sort of bodily process. 299 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 12: Something that was happening is that there was a lot 300 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 12: of telehealth platforms all of a sudden, because twenty twenty 301 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 12: there was some regulatory loosening around who could provide telehealth 302 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 12: across state lines and a lot of investors and entrepreneurs 303 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 12: in the healthcare space. We're looking to you know, found 304 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 12: new telehealth startups and find like white space in that 305 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 12: market which was suddenly sort of wide open. So you 306 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 12: had enormous consumer demand for a new type of drug, 307 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 12: and you had a lot of investors and entrepreneurs looking 308 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 12: to found new healthcare businesses. So you had sort of 309 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 12: a perfect marriage of those two things. And that is 310 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 12: really where the peptide craze sort of took off. It 311 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 12: was just with this one drug. So you've got these 312 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 12: telehealth companies who have cash paying customers who are looking 313 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 12: a lot of them for good deals because otherwise these 314 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 12: drugs are very expensive. Most of them list prices more 315 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 12: than one thousand dollars a month. So you've got a 316 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 12: group of people who already want to pay cash. You've 317 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 12: got an opportunity to legally sell them a version of 318 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 12: the drug that is, you know, in a lot of cases, 319 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 12: two hundred and fifty three hundred bucks a month versus 320 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 12: twelve hundred. So you get a real frenzy for glp 321 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,119 Speaker 12: ones there, and then people start looking for other peptides, 322 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 12: Like if glp ones can do all that, what else 323 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 12: is out there. 324 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was gonna say, because your story opens in 325 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 4: this very memorable way with a sort of gray market 326 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 4: lab just outside of Prague, and and this is a 327 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 4: company that has basically sprung up to test essentially gray 328 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 4: market peptide. So you buy some kind of off label 329 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 4: or maybe possibly illegal or whatever substance that you're going 330 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 4: to inject yourself, you send it to these guys in 331 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 4: in the Czech Republic or in Chechia, and they test that. 332 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 4: They say, yeah, it, it doesn't have any lead in 333 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 4: it or whatever. Right, I think that's what they're and 334 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 4: that it is what it's supposed to be. How do 335 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 4: we get from ozebic to that to this like world 336 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 4: of all of these kind of weird products that don't 337 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 4: necessarily have clinical results that no one even you know, 338 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 4: you can't even trust, that's maybe dangerous. 339 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 2: Like how do we bridge that divide? 340 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 3: Yeah? 341 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 12: Well, essentially, like there are people out there in this 342 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 12: sort of like somewhat shadowy, fringy world of like longevity 343 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 12: medicine or anti aging medicine who have been sort of 344 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 12: dabbling in these like alternate peptide rugs for a long time. 345 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 12: What these substances are is generally things that have been 346 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 12: developed by pharma company, some of them big name pharma companies, 347 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 12: some of them smaller outfits. Is sort of like investigational drugs, 348 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 12: as we think that this peptide, if if injected, might 349 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 12: help people who need more human growth hormones secreted by 350 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 12: their own bodies for some reason. 351 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 5: There's like also like there was a big regulatory change here, 352 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 5: which I think kind of it seems like was like 353 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 5: happening in the background which led to this, Like there 354 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 5: was the Biden administration era regulations and then to RFK junior, 355 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 5: and that seems like a pretty integral part of also 356 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 5: what was happening as the as the medicines are evolving. 357 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 12: So there has been for a really long time this 358 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 12: sort of like niche group of people online that are 359 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 12: that are like, you know, biohackers basically is what you 360 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 12: would call them now, who are are looking to like 361 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 12: fine tune everything about their bodily processes as much as 362 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 12: they can. They have a really high risk tolerance. They 363 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 12: are you know, human labrats basically for their own bodybuilders 364 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 12: are bodybuilders, Like bodybuilders have very high risk tolerance when 365 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 12: it comes to injecting unknown substances. So you get these 366 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 12: people who are like already in existence, and then you 367 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 12: have people who are like maybe slightly lower risk tolerance, 368 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 12: but who are really sort of dazzled by the by 369 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 12: the promise of GLP ones, who like are able to 370 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 12: get some of these off label, you know, the fifteen 371 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 12: pounds that they needed to lose to get absolutely shredded 372 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 12: just melts off of them, and they're like, what have 373 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 12: I been missing? 374 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: Where are the other peptides? 375 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 12: What else can I do that you get this like 376 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 12: sort of like conversion moment where they're like, let's inject 377 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 12: some stuff. And so you get these people, this like 378 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 12: newly large and growing group of people who go looking 379 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 12: for more peptides, and then you know, it starts making 380 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 12: the rounds and like the sort of Manisphere podcasts in 381 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 12: the biohacking Silicon Valley community, people who are like sort 382 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 12: of individualist health hackers really start to take up this 383 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 12: kind of stuff and they start finding it online. So 384 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 12: the administration sees this in twenty twenty three and goes, 385 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 12: we gotta do something about this. The first line of 386 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 12: enforcement about this is like a strongly worded letter from 387 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 12: the FDA. So if you've got a customer base and 388 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 12: some risk tolerance. This story is really just all about 389 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 12: risk tolerance all around. So the Biden administration goes, hold on, 390 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 12: none of y'all should be doing this. And what they 391 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 12: do is they take almost twenty of these compounds that 392 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 12: are popular in these circles and put them on what's 393 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 12: called the Category two list. So a lot of those 394 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 12: guys who had been taking you know, HGH secreting peptides, 395 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 12: who had been taking musculoskeletal healing peptides, and they get 396 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 12: into this sort of underworld of research use only chemicals. 397 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 12: Because it turns out that importing and selling active pharmaceutical 398 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 12: ingredients or what usually gets called API, is like, you know, 399 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 12: there are regulations covering it, but it's not nearly as 400 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 12: like proactively you can. 401 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 3: Just send this stuff around the world. 402 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:57,239 Speaker 2: I mean. 403 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 5: And now though it seems like the regulatory environment is 404 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 5: getting much friendlier. 405 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 12: Well, it's sort of up in the air because the 406 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 12: FDA still says, right now, all of this stuff is illegal. 407 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 2: You're all violating the law. Don't do this. 408 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 3: But RFK, but RFK RFK is very pro peptide. 409 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 12: RFK Junior has instructed the FDA to reconsider the regulatory 410 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 12: status of a bunch of these peptides that the Biden 411 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 12: administration had moved onto the band list. And what he 412 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 12: says is it's basically harm reduction if people are ordering 413 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 12: this powder from overseas and reconstituting it into a liquid 414 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 12: with like god knows what. So the argument basically is 415 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 12: that if we let compounding pharmacies, which are sterile, state regulated, 416 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 12: inspected licensed facilities, make this stuff, they make finished drugs. 417 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 2: I am very confused by the risk tolerance. I mean, 418 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 2: you're so right, it's all risk hoished, that's risks. 419 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, the risk profile of somebody who says that they 420 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 4: do not want to be vaccinated but also is interested 421 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 4: in these peptides. 422 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 2: I'm very confused by that. 423 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 12: I mean, when you put it like that, it doesn't 424 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 12: make a time of sense. But I would look at it, 425 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 12: look at it rather than as like sort of an 426 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 12: incoherent attitude towards scientific evidence, but like instead it's like 427 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 12: a coherent attitude toward authority. And like, to be clear, 428 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 12: the peptide thing has gone so far beyond like the 429 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 12: anti vacs, like fringy health people like it's becoming more 430 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 12: mainstream by the day, but for this group that like 431 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 12: really helps sort of like incubate this set of ideas 432 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 12: around this particular type of risk tolerance, the idea that 433 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 12: like vaccines or other types of commonly prescribed prescription medications 434 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 12: are something that the government and big pharma is doing 435 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 12: to you. It's top down, They're doing it to you 436 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 12: in order to turn a profit on you and your health. 437 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 12: So how promising are these drugs? 438 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 5: Like did you come away from this being like, GLP 439 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 5: ones are going to solve a lot of the health 440 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 5: issues we have, or did you come away saying this 441 00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 5: is potentially super dangerous. 442 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 2: I think it's both. 443 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 12: I think that like GLP ones do seem to be 444 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 12: miracle drugs, legal, safe, effective. BPC one five to seven 445 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 12: is something that like if you go online or if 446 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 12: you like find somebody in person, because I guarantee you, like, 447 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 12: if you're listening to this, you probably know somebody who 448 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 12: has injected BPC one five to seven. It has become 449 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 12: incredibly comment BPC It is a muscular skeletal healing agent 450 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 12: basically like and it's one of the ones that has 451 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 12: like basically no human testing on it. But then you 452 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 12: have like if you look at the mechanism of the drug, Yeah, 453 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 12: like it probably can do some of this stuff that 454 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 12: it's said to do, but like the mechanism also suggests 455 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 12: that it might speed the growth of tumors. And if 456 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 12: you're a person who has a tumor somewhere in your 457 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 12: body that you don't know about, and you get on 458 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 12: this for a few months, like what happens then, So 459 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 12: it is it is one of those things where it's 460 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 12: like peptides there, if you can get like a sort 461 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 12: of stable formulation and one that's well designed, it does 462 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 12: seem that like they can have like very real effects 463 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 12: physiologically on the human body. We know that because of 464 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 12: GLP one drugs, they have profound effects that other types 465 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 12: of medications have not been able to recreate in you know, 466 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 12: decades of scientific research and effort. But because none of 467 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 12: these drugs, or a lot of these drugs at least 468 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 12: have not been through the sort of rigorous testing that 469 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 12: GLP ones have been through, we just don't know what 470 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 12: all the other stuff that they might do could be. 471 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 12: So it's sort of like a caveat m tour situation 472 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 12: taken to like a logical extreme, it seems. 473 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 4: Like all this stuff could just break our current system 474 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 4: of valuating drugs. And I think, you know, some of 475 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 4: the people who are most enthusiastic about biohacking are the 476 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 4: people who want to basically get rid of the FDA 477 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 4: and just just say, well, a lot of people are 478 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 4: using it seems okay, there you go, and it seems 479 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 4: like that would represent an existential threat to the pharmaceutical 480 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 4: industry and maybe to. 481 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 2: Our entire way of like valuating drugs. 482 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 12: Also, to your point, like there is there is a 483 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 12: reason that that an enormous amount of very responsible, very 484 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 12: tightly regulated study has to be done before we just 485 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 12: unleash potentially very powerful and also very dangerous substances onto 486 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 12: the consumer public. So if you end up in a 487 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 12: situation where like you can basically do an end run 488 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 12: around those regulations by just like creating a lot of 489 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 12: hype and creating a lot of consumer demand, and you know, 490 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 12: just relying on a sort of like effeckless regulatory system 491 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 12: to say, okay, well, for harm reduction, we need the 492 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 12: public to have direct access to this, because otherwise they'll 493 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 12: just get it from China. Like that creates a lot 494 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 12: of perverse incentives for bad actors to just like promote 495 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 12: stuff on TikTok until until they get somebody to say, 496 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 12: all right, fine, this is so when you just. 497 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 2: Get to Rogan, yeah, like that's. 498 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 12: Trial right, Yeah, And that's like it's like you say 499 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 12: that in a way that is phrased it's a joke, 500 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 12: but like I don't think that that is necessarily a 501 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 12: joke at this point where it's like, if you can 502 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 12: just create enough hype around a product people are willing 503 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 12: to like risk their lives in very real ways in 504 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 12: order to use that product, then like maybe you just 505 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 12: don't have to run the clinical trials. Maybe that's just 506 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 12: an expensive thing that like doesn't maybe you can just 507 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 12: do things. 508 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 2: Amanda, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Stacy. 509 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 2: Underrated story Time, what do you have for us? 510 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 5: My underrated story is a little somber, which I know 511 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 5: is the purpose of the underrated stories is to be 512 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 5: not somber, so I apologize, but I think it's very relevant. 513 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 3: What it lacks in levity, it makes up for impertinence. 514 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,479 Speaker 4: I like it. Also, I don't agree the underrated story 515 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 4: is just it's a neutral thing. I think we can 516 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 4: be equal opportunity. I'm braced though for some bad for 517 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 4: some bad vibes. 518 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 3: Brace yourself for bad vibes. 519 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 5: So it's It was a study that came out from Zippercruiter, 520 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 5: which is a big jobs website, like a job search website, 521 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 5: and what they reported is that about a third of 522 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 5: workers now are working multiple jobs in some way to 523 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 5: kind of make ends meet, which is huge. 524 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 4: And you know, we've been hearing stories about this for 525 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 4: a long time, and you know, especially as as economy 526 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 4: has become unequal, how much bigger has this gotten? Like 527 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 4: what is a normal level of this and what where 528 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 4: are we today? 529 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 5: The Zippercrutter study did not have like a timeline, so 530 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 5: it may have been this way for a long time. 531 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 3: But I think what this made me think of, what 532 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 3: the third of workers. 533 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 5: Made me think of, was that recently, in the last 534 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 5: couple inflation reports, we've seen inflation pacing wage growth because 535 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 5: for a while, even though prices were rising, like on average, 536 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 5: wages were keeping up, so we weren't getting ahead, but 537 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 5: we weren't necessarily falling behind. 538 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 4: And now we are. 539 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 5: I think wages are rising around three percent, inflation's like 540 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 5: over four percent, and so it puts people in this 541 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 5: position where they can't afford things, and so I think 542 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 5: that is maybe part of what's going on. It's an 543 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 5: interesting portrait of the other part of the economy. I 544 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 5: feel like there's the SpaceX part of the economy that 545 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 5: we started the show with, which is just like outperforming 546 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 5: everything everybody thought creating it just enormous wealth, and then 547 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 5: there's this other part of the economy where there's just 548 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 5: a big like scrambling you know. 549 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's really it is bracing in certain places, 550 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 4: especially when you think about these SpaceX workers. You have 551 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 4: like a large number of billionaires producers to IPO, but 552 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 4: you also have a lot of kind of workers who, 553 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 4: whether because they own equity or just because of the 554 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 4: you know, the the general frothiness of the AI bubble, 555 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 4: are commanding just insane wages, you know, mid mid six 556 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 4: figure type situation. And then in stock options on top 557 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 4: of that, it's it's wild. Okay, So my story is 558 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 4: kind of related to this, Stacy, do you you know 559 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 4: that I am all in on the World Cup. I 560 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 4: am following it. I would never watch it at work, 561 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 4: mind you, but I am keeping a close eye, let's say, 562 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 4: on on the goings on and the biggest, the most 563 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 4: fun story so far in the World Cup is that 564 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 4: Cape Verdey, which is a tiny country island nation off 565 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 4: the coast of Western Africa, beat Spain zero zero in 566 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 4: a game of soccer. 567 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 2: I have a few. 568 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 3: Questions here zero zero. 569 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 5: I mean, I am not I am not the sportsman 570 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 5: that you are. Max, as has been well established, but 571 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 5: I always thought of zero zero as a tie. 572 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 2: It is a tie, but it would just such a big. 573 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 3: Upset relatively speaking of victory. 574 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 2: It is very much a moral victory. Huge. 575 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 4: The tie was a huge upset, and there have been 576 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 4: a lot of fun stories. So you know, I love 577 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 4: sort of geriatric athletes. There's a great older athlete on 578 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 4: the Cape Verde team. They're older means what forty I mean, 579 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:26,239 Speaker 4: So so there's a forty something goalkeeper. And then the thing, 580 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 4: the thing I actually wanted to talk to you about 581 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 4: is that one of the Cape Verde players, the way 582 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 4: he found his way on the Cape Verdey team was 583 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 4: via what I would say is the most important communication 584 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 4: platform of our time. 585 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 2: What is that in mail? The LinkedIn email service, The 586 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 2: way you get. 587 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 3: Really the way routed for the team on LinkedIn. 588 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 4: It is amazing yes, he is a cape Verde nationality, 589 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 4: but he was living in Ireland playing for an Irish 590 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 4: professional team. He got this LinkedIn message and he did 591 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 4: what I think most people do when they get a 592 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 4: link LinkedIn message, which is ignore it. But then he 593 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 4: got another LinkedIn message, you know, six months later. It 594 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 4: was in Portuguese. That was part of the reason he 595 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 4: ignored it, but then he chose to translate it and 596 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 4: he joined the cape Verde national football team and the 597 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 4: rest is history. They're making a Cinderella run, Stacy. If 598 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 4: the US doesn't go all the way I'm putting it all. 599 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 3: You're all in for cape Verade cape very day. 600 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 2: I love it. 601 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 3: I love this story. That is a beautiful underrated story. 602 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 2: I totally agree. 603 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 4: And I have to say before we leave this show, 604 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 4: I need to acknowledge an additional soccer related note from Kyle, 605 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,719 Speaker 4: a listener who wrote in with a quibble. 606 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:44,959 Speaker 3: What is Kyle's quibble? 607 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 2: Max Stacy And. 608 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 4: I'm hoping Randall Max Stacey, No, I love the podcast 609 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 4: was a little myth today listening to the conversation about 610 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 4: the World Cup and the popularity of soccer in the US, 611 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 4: specifically to comments about how soccer might be more popular 612 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 4: if the US team ever made us a round sixteen. 613 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 4: Kyle points out that we were talking about the men's 614 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 4: team and the men's team historically, as Kyle put it, colorfully, 615 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 4: suck in general. But the women's team has been incredible. 616 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 4: The women's team have won multiple World Cups. They are 617 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 4: true perennial contender, and Kyle says Randall, I hope you 618 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 4: can use some of that Bloomberg money and go to 619 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 4: Brazil next year to cover the World Cup and the 620 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 4: us WNT. That's the US women's national team. If you do, 621 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 4: let me know because we'll be there too, cheering on 622 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 4: our champions. I responded to Kyle that I will personally 623 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 4: approve Randall's expenses for the women's. 624 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 5: World We should have a whole everybody's business trip to 625 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 5: Brazil to properly report this. I can't believe I missed 626 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 5: this because this was a huge issue around equal pay, 627 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 5: which was a big deal when the women's team won 628 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 5: and they protested their salaries and they got a huge 629 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 5: salary bump because they were like, we're winning, We're filling seats. 630 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 5: And the excuse had always been that not as many 631 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 5: people were interested in soccer, but because the women's team 632 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 5: they have been such champions, they got a huge pay 633 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 5: bump and yes, that. 634 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 3: Is such a good note. Thank you, Kyle. This show 635 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 3: is produced by Jasmine JT. Green, Stacy Wong, and Miles J. Hersenhorn. 636 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 5: Magnus Henrickson is our supervising producer, Sam Rogic, Handle's engineering 637 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 5: and Dave Purcelf fact checks. Special thanks to Jeff Muscus, 638 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 5: Julia Rubin and Maria Lang. If you have a minute, 639 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 5: please rate and review the show. 640 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:36,719 Speaker 3: It means a lot to us. 641 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 5: And if you have a story that should be our business, 642 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 5: email us at Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net. That is 643 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 5: everybody with ans Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net. 644 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 3: Thank you for listening. We'll see you next week.