1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man, the Myth, Legend, 4 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: our super producer, mister Max Williams. 5 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: I don't know that I will give it up for 6 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 2: the Man, the Myth or the Legend, as I've just 7 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: found out that he gives us the naughty finger every 8 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: time we start recording. You know who else has been 9 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: doing that historically, Guys, Paul McCartney anytime. 10 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 3: If you've seen over the many many years he's been a. 11 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: Public figure, there's all his footage of him and interviews 12 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: being asked an uncomfortable question and he. 13 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 3: Just kind of, yeah, does this what I'm doing is 14 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 3: a podcaw audio podcast. 15 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 2: He just sort of uses his middle finger to scratch 16 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 2: his nose or to you know, somehow innocuously gesture. But 17 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: it is a total thing that he's doing. 18 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 3: Max. 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: You are you, You are Noel Brown. And what you're doing, 20 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: since we are an audio podcast, is you are lightly 21 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: caressing your furrowed brow and parts of your cheeks with 22 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: your middle finger. 23 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 3: Are your right hand? Yeah? 24 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 2: Doing the McCartney that's what I Max doesn't doing the McCartney. 25 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 2: I'm not really mad at you, Max, by the way, 26 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: I could never stay mad at you. 27 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,960 Speaker 1: I am Ben Bullen and this is of course ridiculous history. 28 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: We are immensely excited folks, listeners, friends, countrymen to be 29 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: joined with a guy we've been talking about quite a 30 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: deal to uh for some time now. Noel, it's a J. 31 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: Jacobs aj Bahamas Jacobs. 32 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: Uh inexplicable n name that shall never be explicated. 33 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: The puzzler we call him here right. He has many names. 34 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: Bahamas the puzzler. 35 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 3: There's many hats. Is wearing one right now in Feetz. 36 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: He is also known as a prolific author. He has 37 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: a new book that we have just absolutely devoured. 38 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 3: A J. 39 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. 40 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 4: I am so delighted to be here. I can't even 41 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 4: tell you love your hat. Ben the track corn and 42 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 4: Noel has his own hat. It's more of a twenty 43 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 4: first century as opposed to an eighteenth century. But still 44 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 4: I appreciate I'm always the outlier. Yeah, but yeah, I 45 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 4: couldn't be more excited. And one of the highlights of 46 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 4: publishing this book is I threw a party in New 47 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 4: York a Constitution themed party at the oldest bar in 48 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 4: New York at Taverns, France's tavern and we all had 49 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 4: mydear uh and up came Ben and Nol from Atlanta 50 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 4: to enjoy some madeira and some musket fondling. 51 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 3: I got, we got, we got muskets. Selfies. That thing 52 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 3: was hefty. You carried that thing around. 53 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: You must have some pretty swoll upper body stuff going 54 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 2: on now because of that. 55 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 4: Well yeah, no, it is. It's ten pounds. I mean 56 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 4: it feels heavier, but it is ten pounds. So uh yeah, 57 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 4: I do consider myself quite manly. 58 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, that's. 59 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: So. The book is the Year of living Constitutionally, one 60 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: man's humble quest to follow the Constitution's original meaning. 61 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 3: Uh. 62 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: And you know, uh, Noel, Max and I have have 63 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: talked with you, like as you were creating and publishing 64 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: this book, because this is very much ridiculous history the Constitution. 65 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 3: Ah. 66 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: It's a relatively short document, right. 67 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 4: Right, yeah, just four I mean there are big pages, 68 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 4: but four pages. So and it is. It is the 69 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 4: second shortest constitution in the world after Monaco. Monaco doesn't 70 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 4: have much to say. 71 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: Monaco just said no taxes. 72 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 3: That's a micronation too. 73 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: I mean that would make sense that they would maybe 74 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 2: have a short constitution given the land mask. Yeah, man ale, 75 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: the whole of these United States, the entirety of our 76 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,799 Speaker 2: constitutional you know, concepts written on such a tiny document. 77 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: That really surprised me. I guess you can't see it, right, 78 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: Like if you go to Washington, d C. No, where's 79 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 2: it on display. It's in Philadelphia. 80 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 3: No, No, it is. 81 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 4: I actually visited it as part of the Adventures in 82 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 4: my book, and it's at the at the National Archives. 83 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 4: And it's very it's like a cathedral. It's low lighting, 84 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 4: have to you have to talk in whispers, so it is. 85 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 4: And it's in a titanium case. Are gone gas inside 86 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 4: so that it doesn't so it is treated. And of 87 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 4: course the tour guides are contractually required to make a 88 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 4: Nicholas Cage joke, like they say even Nicholas Cage could 89 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 4: not And they do take the Constitution and the Declaration 90 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 4: and they put them in an undisclosed location overnight, so 91 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 4: they do go. They're like whisked away and then they 92 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 4: come back in the morning. 93 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: Oh, so the heist is every night exactly. 94 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 3: There's there. You know, they're sort of like mitigating the 95 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 3: potential heist. 96 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 4: It's a government. 97 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 3: Nicolas Cages of the world just can't help themselves. You know. 98 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 2: They see a constitution, they got to steal it, you know, 99 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: or a. 100 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 3: Declaration of independence or whatever it might be. 101 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 2: The interesting thing to me about, uh, the Constitution is 102 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 2: this idea I guess we learned probably all learned about 103 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: in Civics class of like strict constructionism, you know, the 104 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: idea of adhering to the intent, to the original intent 105 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: of the founding fathers. And that's a big part of 106 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: what you're getting to the bottom of is what was 107 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 2: that intent and is it even something that is possible 108 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: to adhere to strictly so strictly you know, in this 109 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: our modern day exactly. 110 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 4: And that was sort of the motivation for writing the book, 111 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 4: is because first of all, I had never read the Constitution. 112 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 4: Apparently sixty percent of Americans have never read it from 113 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 4: start to finish, and I was in that sixty percent. 114 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 4: But I would read every day in the news all 115 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 4: these headlines about how much the Constitution is shaping our 116 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 4: lives more than ever, like every day, and where we 117 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 4: go to school, what we can carry, what we can 118 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 4: say what can do you with your body? So I 119 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 4: was like, let me try to understand the Constitution. And 120 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 4: as you know, the way I like to try to 121 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 4: understand things is to dive in, to live them, to 122 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 4: immerse myself, like I did. 123 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: That side to aj Jacob's fellow ridiculous historians also earlier 124 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: wrote a book called The Year of Living Biblically, which 125 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: was exactly a very inconvenient year at Southlake. 126 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 4: Yes, that was sort of the prequel to this, And yeah, 127 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 4: I had to follow that literally, which meant not just 128 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 4: the Ten Commandments, but I couldn't. 129 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: Show a weird fabric. 130 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 4: You couldn't wear two kinds of fabrics, so no polycotton. 131 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 4: You couldn't shave the corners of your beard, so I 132 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 4: had a beard bigger than both of yours combined. I 133 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 4: would say not to flex, but that was the fact. 134 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 4: So this one was sort of in the same line, 135 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 4: and I did. I tried to express my constitutional rights 136 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 4: using the technology and mindset of the founders, So that 137 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 4: meant carrying a musket in an eighteenth century musket around 138 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 4: the streets of New York. And I gave up social 139 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 4: media in favor of writing pamphlets with a quill and ink, 140 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 4: which I loved, which. 141 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 3: You passed out as party favorites. 142 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 2: That's your book event, And I actually snagged a few 143 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: little pots of this powdered ink, which I guess just 144 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: add water and then a very very period accurate quill, 145 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: which is literally a bird feather kind of sharpened to 146 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 2: a point at the end. Then they're perfectly hollow, so 147 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 2: it makes sense the ink just kind of pools up inside, 148 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: and then I guess you just dip it in just 149 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 2: like you see in the pictures. 150 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 4: Exactly, and goose quill is what they used back in 151 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 4: the Constitution. Although if you're super fancy, swan swan feathers 152 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 4: were sometimes preferred. 153 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: Swand feathers were like the good pins. 154 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 4: That was like, yeah, that was like if you were 155 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 4: like the Tiffany's. They also made bigger. They were if 156 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 4: you want to write, if you want to do the 157 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 4: jant John Hancock just like show. 158 00:08:55,280 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: How So, one thing that I think stood out to 159 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: all of us as fans of ridiculous history is that 160 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: there is a lot of ridiculous stuff about the Constitution 161 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: for such a foundational document. Aj As you explain in 162 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: depth in the book, it is kind of weird that 163 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: there are some errors. There are some like type of 164 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: graphical you. 165 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 4: Know, yeah, they're typos. 166 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 2: I mean we can't have spell check. I mean, let's 167 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: give them a little, you know, a little leeway. But 168 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 2: what kind are we talking like, not serious foundational errors, 169 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 2: maybe a little bit. 170 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 3: More misspellings and things like that, or how far does 171 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 3: it go? 172 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 4: Well, you're right, I do want to give them the 173 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 4: benefit of the doubt because some parts of the Constitution 174 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 4: are so inspiring and wonderful, and they really did. I 175 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 4: believe that in overall did good in establishing a more 176 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 4: democratic nation that we keep havef to fighting to make 177 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 4: more democrats. That's said. I ran it through grammarly at 178 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 4: software and grammarily found over six hundred errors. So grammarly 179 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 4: did not like it at all. No, and they were 180 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 4: a little overly strict. But here are some that were 181 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 4: clearly even back in the eighteenth century. First of all, 182 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 4: the state of Pennsylvania is spelled two different ways in 183 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 4: the same four pages, so that there's no excuse. It's 184 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 4: pe n n in one case and pe n s 185 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 4: in the other. There's also you know, the classic it 186 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 4: apostrophe s its problem, so there is an extraneous apostrophe 187 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 4: in one of the itzes, which I mean, can you 188 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 4: imagine if social if Ben Franklin had invented social media 189 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 4: in the eighteenth cent they would have been flak. They 190 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 4: just would have been trolled out. So, yes, it is 191 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 4: not a perfect document, which I think is fine and 192 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 4: I think is actually instructive because it shows it was 193 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 4: written by humans. They were very prescient and brilliant humans, 194 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 4: but they were humans, and they knew it was imperfect. 195 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 4: George Washington said after the two weeks after the Constitution, 196 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 4: he wrote a letter to his nephew and said, I 197 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 4: know it's an imperfect document, but you're going to improve 198 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 4: it your generation and the generations after. So I am 199 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 4: actually fine with it having some typos or quillos. I 200 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 4: guess it's not type. 201 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: Of So could we say then that George Washington himself 202 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: set a precedent for improving an imperfect document. Scalia would never. 203 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 4: Well, exactly, I mean I think that they all they 204 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 4: recognized more than some modern people, and they did build 205 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 4: in they built in a way a method to change it. 206 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 4: Article five, which is about amending the Constitution, which was 207 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 4: totally new. That was another new brilliant innovation. The problem 208 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 4: is they made it so hard to amend. It is 209 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 4: so they didn't realize how hard it would be to amend, 210 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 4: because they didn't see this rigid two party system coming. 211 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 4: And you need two thirds of the Congress and three 212 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 4: quarters of the state legislatures to sign off on an amendment. 213 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 4: You can't get two thirds of Congress to agree on 214 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 4: on the color of an apple. You can't get them. 215 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: We can't get a look aj Noel, Max and I 216 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: cannot agree when we're ordering pizza together. Interesting, you know 217 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: what I mean? 218 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: Well, that's why you have the whole half situation. I 219 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 2: think that's very key. That was our topics. Yeah, with 220 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 2: the online ordering, you can even do it in fourths, 221 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: you know whatever. I think it's a it's that's the 222 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 2: modern autems like, I don't know about that. 223 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: We have to take that to ridiculous history. Congress. 224 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 2: You know, you know one thing that occurs to me 225 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 2: too that has really become more and more apparent in 226 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 2: our current political climate is that, you know, with the 227 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 2: founding fathers having this idea in mind that oh, sure 228 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 2: people will be able to figure this out and get 229 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 2: along and agree to amendments. As they seem necessary. But 230 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: how much is based on this idea of a gentleman's agreement, 231 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: the idea of decorum? Right, No, sure, everyone will behave themselves, 232 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 2: it'll be fine. The president will totally step down if 233 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 2: you know, they lose an election. 234 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 3: That's what they do, you know. 235 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 2: And we realize now with certain individuals in power, we're 236 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: not going to get to political soap oxy here. 237 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 3: But all you gotta do is just be a be a. 238 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: Pill and just ignore that decorum, and then you realize 239 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: how little of this stuff is actually codified in real law. 240 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 4: Such a great point, absolutely, and they all figure. You know, 241 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 4: George Washington had many flaws, as we know, but he 242 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 4: also was considered this virtuous person who would step down 243 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,719 Speaker 4: after a couple of a couple of and would not 244 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 4: become a dictator or a tyrant. 245 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: And indeed rejected, rejected soft propositions for him to be 246 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: a king of Monarcha and em Burger right. 247 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 4: A lot of them wanted to call him his highness, 248 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 4: his excellency John Adams loved that stuff, and they made 249 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 4: fun of him, by the way, and called him John 250 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 4: Adams his rotundity, which is I think fat shaming. And 251 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 4: I don't have a prove not a fan. 252 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: That's like, that's like ethel read the unready, you know 253 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: like that we have we've talked about the weird styles 254 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: or hoterrifics, hoterifics that people get throughout history. The come on, man, 255 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: rotund that's just mean has. 256 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: Met He occupied the rotunda, you know he hung out there. 257 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 2: That positive original lobbyists like that. 258 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 4: They were a little nervous. Even then. There's a letter 259 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 4: that Thomas Jefferson wrote to James Madison after the Constitution 260 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 4: and he said, I am nervous because Thomas Jefferson wasn't there, 261 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 4: so he had a little fomo and he was saying, 262 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 4: I am quite nervous that we're going to get a 263 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 4: president who comes in and loses the election, the reelection 264 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 4: by a slim margin. He's going to cry foul and 265 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 4: claim that it was rigged and refused to leave and 266 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 4: try to get the States his supporters to rally behind him. 267 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 4: And I read that and I'm like, wow, that. 268 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 3: Is that might be Russian. 269 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: That comes to Thomas Jefferson famously kind of a pill. 270 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: He had a lot of huts, but he's the he's 271 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: the guy. If I recall correctly, who looked at the 272 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: Christian Bible and said, I have some notes. 273 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 4: He edited it, he really did. He took out all 274 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 4: the miracles. He took out he didn't want. He just 275 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 4: wanted it straight ahead, no walking on water. 276 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 3: A lot of slaves too, if I remember correctly. 277 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: He was quite and has a lot of descendants. 278 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 4: What's interesting is he knew he was a hippot. He 279 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 4: knew slavery was wrong, and that certainly doesn't make him better, 280 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 4: maybe it even makes him worse. But he was he 281 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 4: was well aware. But he said I'm too avaricious. He said, 282 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 4: I'm too. I'm too greedy and lazy to want to 283 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 4: give up my lifestyle in my own in my own life. 284 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, it led to horrible things for folks like 285 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: Sally Hemings right. Also, speaking of speaking of hypocrisy or 286 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: complicated origin stories and providence, one thing that I learned 287 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: from from your book was as a person, as one 288 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: of the forty percent, I read the Constitution as a kid, 289 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: and you're a good citizen. Indeed, I had okay parents. 290 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: I've found it. I found it strange. I never knew 291 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: this the Constitution. You know, of course, phrasing stuff like 292 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: freedom for all people quote unquote people. It is not vegan. 293 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: I had never thought about the idea of vegan constitutions. 294 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 4: Oh, it is very far from vegan. Yeah, back then 295 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 4: it was that was not something top of mind. So 296 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 4: the actual Constitution is not written on paper. It's written 297 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 4: on parchment, and true parchment is animal skin. They and 298 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 4: I actually went to the place where they the only 299 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 4: place left in America where they still make parchment for 300 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 4: commercial use. And it is smelly and. 301 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 3: Go it's like a leather almost, right, it's very. 302 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 4: Similar to a leather cut. Yeah, And they got and 303 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 4: they put it in a stew. They take the the 304 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,719 Speaker 4: Constitution's probably calf skin and they put it in a 305 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 4: stew made of all sorts of including urine. 306 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 3: Fun. 307 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, good for color, right, he had exactly like that's 308 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 4: where the yellow comes. 309 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 3: Not really, No time is what creates that. 310 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 4: There you go. 311 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 2: Mit, we already talked about the animal products in the 312 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 2: writing utensils of course, right, the ink itself. I didn't 313 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 2: even know this when I when I procured those pots 314 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 2: of powdered ink from your event, there's there's some animal 315 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 2: content and even the ink right. 316 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 4: Right, the ink is made from the nests nests of 317 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 4: wasp bags. So and they crush them up and that's 318 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 4: where they get the black ink. So, yeah, it was. 319 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 4: You know, that was the time. It was very it 320 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 4: was it was an agricultural country, so there was Yeah, 321 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 4: it was. So I don't even know if I'd count 322 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 4: that as his hypocrisy. I will say one thing that 323 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 4: I did find interestingly hypocritical, and I feel bad saying 324 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 4: it because Ben Franklin is my favorite founding father. Oh 325 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 4: you Wildwood, Yeah, and you've done some great episodes on him. 326 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 4: I love you said that you didn't like his spelling reform. 327 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 4: I'm actually I'm like, maybe we should try it. 328 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: You are you see Max beat me here? Uh aj? 329 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: Are you saying that you looked at Ben Franklin's wild 330 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: alphabet revisions, the part where he said some of these 331 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: letters are bullshit, and you you were on board. 332 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 4: I'm semi on board with. I mean, look at look 333 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 4: at how crazy American spelling is, and he was just 334 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 4: trying to reform it. The fact that g h o 335 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 4: U g h can be pronounced ten different ways calls 336 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 4: road through enough, like it's just crazy enough. 337 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 2: Enough, indeed enough already with the ridiculous spelling. Yeah, that's 338 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 2: a very good point. 339 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 3: I do think he's an interesting guy. But you you 340 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 3: were gonna make a point about it. 341 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 4: I was gonna give him just one little I just 342 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 4: wanted to needle him for one thing, which was he 343 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 4: arrived at the Constitutional Convention famously in a sedan chair, 344 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 4: which is one of those chairs carried by four people, 345 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 4: and the. 346 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, is that what? Probably? Yeah, yeah, a couple of names. 347 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 2: Palaquin maybe is like almost like a carriage version of 348 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 2: and got an enclosure, I believe, but there's yeah, but 349 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 2: that's incredible, that's very kingly well. 350 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 4: And it was carried by four prisoners for Philadelphia prisoners, 351 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 4: So that doesn't seem like if you're going to the 352 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 4: birth of freedom. Wow, maybe don't be carried in a sedan, 353 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 4: which he got the idea for Marie Antoinette because he 354 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 4: lived in France, and so so maybe that wasn't his 355 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 4: best moment, but forgive maybe. 356 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: Also Nola is correct. Palanquin is palanquin is covered. Is 357 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: a covered sedan chair. Basically it's a human propelled carriage. Basically, 358 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: yamens are the wheels prisoner labor. Oh my gosh, this 359 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: is the first time I've learned this. 360 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 3: I've never heard this before either. Age. 361 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 2: I think that's incredible. Uh, do you mind if we 362 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: pop back over to amendments really quick, because you know, 363 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 2: you mentioned how difficult, and you know, despite their best 364 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 2: intentions again hoping that folks would lean on decorum and 365 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 2: behave themselves and get along that they thought, well, surely 366 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 2: this is a reasonable enough mechanism for creating amendments. And 367 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 2: the whole point of the Constitution was that it was 368 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 2: a living document. It could change and mold to the times. 369 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,719 Speaker 2: So what was their barrier to amendments? What was the 370 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 2: how did they have it written in and what kind 371 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 2: of came of that in actual practice? 372 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 4: Well, they did want to make it too easy, because yeah, 373 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 4: you don't want to change it every other day. But 374 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 4: so they made it quite quite difficult with two thirds 375 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,879 Speaker 4: of Congress has to vote for it, and then it 376 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 4: goes to the state legislatures and you get you need 377 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 4: three quarters of the states to sign off of it. 378 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 4: There's another way to do it, but that's also difficult. 379 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 4: The point is we have had, thank God for amendments, 380 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 4: because some of them are you know, they gave women 381 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 4: the vote, They gave black people and Indigenous people to vote, 382 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 4: so they have been hugely crucial in making us a 383 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 4: better country. But as I said, it's hard. There hasn't 384 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 4: been a new one since nineteen ninety two. There have 385 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 4: been eleven thousand that have come to the floor of 386 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 4: the Congress, so that's like already they've gotten there, and 387 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 4: only twenty seven of those have made it. So that's 388 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 4: like a ninety nine point seventy four rejection rate, I think, 389 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 4: and some of them deserve to be rejected. There was 390 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 4: one in the early nineteen hundreds that said we should 391 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 4: change the name to the United from the United States 392 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 4: of America to United States of Earth because they thought 393 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 4: we're just going to take over the world, so let's 394 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 4: just change it now. 395 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's kind of cold war Cold war. 396 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 4: So I'm glad that one didn't go through, but some 397 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 4: of them now. And let me tell you, actually, let 398 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 4: me tell you quickly about two heroes that helped pass 399 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 4: two of two amendments. The first, I love this woman 400 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 4: who's an unsung hero of America feb Byrne. 401 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 3: She is. 402 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 4: This was the nineteenth Amendment, so this was when nineteen 403 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 4: twenty women were going to get the vote or not 404 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 4: get the vote suffrage suffrage exactly. And they they needed 405 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,239 Speaker 4: three quarters of the state's legislatures to say yes. So 406 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 4: they had all but one they need. It came down 407 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 4: to one. It came down to Tennessee. And not only that, 408 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 4: it came down to one vot vote in Tennessee because 409 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 4: it was deadlocked. So it had the same yes and nos. 410 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 4: And the one undecided guy was named Harry Byrne. So 411 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 4: he was a state legislature in Tennessee and he was 412 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 4: leaning against it. He was leaning saying no, we shouldn't 413 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 4: give women the vote. His mom, feb Byrne, wrote a 414 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 4: letter and stuck it in his suit, and the letter said, 415 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 4: be a good boy, be a good boy, and vote 416 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 4: for women, because that's what your mom wants to you 417 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 4: to do. He read the letter, he voted for the 418 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 4: nineteenth Amendment. 419 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 3: It passed. 420 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 4: Legend has it that the other legislators were so angry 421 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 4: at him and his mom that they chased him out 422 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 4: of the court of the House and he had to 423 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 4: run a jump from a window to escape them. That 424 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 4: I'm not sure it is true, but what is true 425 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 4: is his mom wrote this letter that changed American history. 426 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 4: So hooray huzzah. 427 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: For us, So say we all, it's strange how such 428 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: big results can hinge on such ostensibly tiny things. 429 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 4: A great yeah, be a good boy, be a good bye. 430 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 3: And he. 431 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 2: When I think about the idea of proposed amendments, you 432 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 2: know that outrageous number, and you've listed some ridiculous ones. 433 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 2: Some of the ones that have been proposed but never 434 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 2: approved are pretty common sense, like the idea of having 435 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 2: a balanced budget has never been approved. 436 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 4: Right, And also there are a ton that I would pass, 437 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 4: like just in a second. I mean, first of all, 438 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 4: two year two terms limit for a Senate and Congress 439 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 4: that's been proposed dozens of times and it gets shot 440 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 4: down just because it's so hard to pass. But yeah, 441 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 4: I mean, look at the I will say the word 442 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 4: senate means old like sen esence, senate. But they didn't 443 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 4: mean this old like they didn't think only Ben Franklin 444 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 4: lived to this age, and so they didn't they didn't 445 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 4: imagine the average age in the Constitutional Convention. I mean, 446 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 4: Madison was in his thirties, and I think Ben, I 447 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 4: mean Hamilton was twenty eight something like that. 448 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: Ah geez, all right, well we're doing okay, guys, we're 449 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: still doing stuff. 450 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 3: Fine, it's fine. 451 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 4: They did not have two hit podcasts. I will say, oh, 452 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 4: neither of neither of us. 453 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 3: Wasn't it wasn't the thing. 454 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 2: Yet they would have maybe I think, you know, I 455 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 2: was about to say earlier, you're talking about Ben Franklin 456 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 2: in social media. 457 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 3: That guy would have been wicked. 458 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 2: Oh wicked man destroyed us all sliced us right on 459 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 2: down the side. I am personally am going to cop 460 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 2: to still to this day, if not fully read the Constitution. 461 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 2: I want to just make clear a couple of the 462 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 2: things that I believe are defined in there, but I 463 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 2: want you to correct me if I'm wrong. Things like 464 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 2: term limits that you discussed it obviously maybe are least 465 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 2: something to be desired. But the qualifications for say, running 466 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 2: for presidents, that's in there, right, Yes, to some extent, 467 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 2: that's the thing, right, Like a lot of it's a 468 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 2: little meant to be vague, and now we're starting to 469 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: test the metal of what some of this stuff means. 470 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 2: Where it's like, you know, if you're a felon, you 471 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 2: can't vote, you're disenfranchised. But yet they didn't think to 472 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 2: put if you're a felon you can't run for presidents 473 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 2: because decorum, Because surely a felon would never be elevated 474 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 2: to the level where they'd be able to run for presidents. 475 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: Well, I think let's deferred a hero in this wind. 476 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: I believe that there are quote unquote qualifications, yet they 477 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: are exceedingly they're like doctor Seuss levels. 478 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 2: Well, there's a minimum age, naturalized citizen or whatever. 479 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: Right, Yes, when Arnold Schwartz, remember when some people wanted 480 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,719 Speaker 1: Arnold Schwarzenegger to be president. That was a It didn't 481 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,959 Speaker 1: ever make it to Congress, but there was a great 482 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: bit of political will, yeah, or a call, if you will, uh, 483 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: to to amend the constitution such that the terminator could 484 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: run for president. 485 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 2: Guys, can I just say to you, I think Arnold 486 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 2: saw whatever is is shortcomings. 487 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 3: Maybe he's a pretty good good politician. I think he's 488 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 3: got a level head, he's a good speaker. He clearly 489 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 3: cares about the. 490 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 2: People of California, you know, And I think he would 491 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 2: have extended that kind of love to the people of 492 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 2: the United States of Earth. 493 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 4: Hell, listen if he if he runs now, I would 494 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 4: not be upset. 495 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 3: Uh. 496 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, yeah, you're right. They left a lot 497 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 4: of it. Uh, as you said, as we said, it's 498 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 4: only four pages, so a lot of it is implied. 499 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 4: It is implied, and that's that's a huge part of 500 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,719 Speaker 4: the constitution, the unwritten constitution, the silent constitution. There there 501 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 4: are all sorts of names for it. But yeah, when 502 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 4: you don't write it out, that's a problem. On the 503 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 4: other hand, you having this vague language sometimes can be 504 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 4: super helpful. So for instance, let me give you an 505 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 4: example cruel and unusual punishment. Now they didn't say, here's 506 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 4: what's cruel and unusual, you know, like the thumbscrew, and 507 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 4: have a list of all of this, which is probably 508 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 4: good because back then, in the seventeen nineties, what was 509 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 4: cruel and unusual was very different. Flogging was fine. 510 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: That's the pillary. 511 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 4: Pillories, And I will say, as part of my adventure, 512 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 4: I decided to explore pillaries, so you can buy them 513 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 4: on Etsy. I bought a pillary. This is and this 514 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 4: is the wooden thing where you can put your hands 515 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 4: and stock gazing. The stock g exact and stocks actually 516 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 4: use feet as well, so the pillary is just the 517 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 4: hands in the head. So I learned that that was 518 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 4: still Yeah, both neither of them and they were. 519 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 2: Nat It was a holdover from like the Dark Ages, 520 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 2: right or from the medieval times. 521 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 4: But it was still used. John Jay, the first Justice 522 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 4: Supreme Court, he sentenced someone to an hour in the 523 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 4: pillory for spying and it was it was not fun 524 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 4: like it was. They would throw not just fruit, but 525 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 4: like poop at you, dead animals. Tickling. That was they 526 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 4: would tickle you, which just seems so. 527 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 3: Usual. 528 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 4: It just seems cruel and on. So I did buy one, 529 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 4: and the one they make pillar it was yes, and 530 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 4: it was more marketed towards like adult entertainment, I think, 531 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 4: than punishment. 532 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: Oh wait, wait, wait, pause, we hear the diplomacy there. 533 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 4: You hear that. I do not want to kink shame. 534 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 4: If that's what people enjoy, it's. 535 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 3: Not you don't got yeah. Yeah, but the idea of the. 536 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: Idea of cruel and unusual, it makes me imagine, uh, 537 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: it makes me imagine essentially a brainstorming session which the 538 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: Constitution kind of was, where someone someone's like, well, you 539 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: can punish people if they break these laws that we're writing. 540 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: And then someone said, yeah, but you should you know, 541 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: not be rude about it, or you shouldn't be cruel 542 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: about it, and then someone said what's the worst thing 543 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: that you could do to a person? And then some 544 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: and then they just pitched ideas for like twenty minutes, 545 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: and someone said, Okay, we'll just say cruel and unusual. 546 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: We have a lot of stuff to do today, so. 547 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 4: Exactly, yeah, make it shorthand they don't have time to 548 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 4: list it otherwise it will be eight thousand pages. And 549 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 4: by the way, the treadmill also a big cruel and 550 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 4: unusual punishment Like then, yeah. 551 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 2: That was in still is today, guys. 552 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 4: Self inflicted. I punish myself every day on the on 553 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 4: the treadmill. 554 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: Hold the phone, Wait, hold the quill. 555 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 3: Uh. 556 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 1: This is a two parter because we have so much 557 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: more stuff to explore. I am loving picking a j. 558 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: Bahamas Jacob's brain here. 559 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 3: Oh I know, I also love the idea of picking 560 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 3: a brain. 561 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 2: It's just whenever that expression has used, my mind immediately 562 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 2: turns to images of like poking at a live brain 563 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 2: in some sort of dish in a laboratory. 564 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 3: But that's not what we're doing. 565 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 2: AJ's brain is staying fully contained within his skull. And 566 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 2: we're really excited to continue this conversation about the year 567 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 2: of living constitutionally and all things ridiculous when it comes 568 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 2: to that that living documents m. 569 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: Four big pages, which. 570 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 3: That's in the space, very tiny text. 571 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: Which determined the course of history and indeed the future. 572 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: Big big thanks to mister Max Williams, our super producer. 573 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 3: Huge thanks to A. J. 574 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 2: Mohamas, Jacobs, Jonathan Strickland the quiz He's Jeff Cots, and 575 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 2: Christopher osiotis. 576 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 3: Here in spirit. 577 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: Big big thanks of course, also to Abe loues Ya. 578 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: Please check out the Puzzler, where in your faithful correspondence 579 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: may make a cameo or two spoiler. We do, but 580 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: I am so excited for part two of this. 581 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 3: Me too, and we will see you next time. Folks. 582 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 583 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.