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Speaker 1: M what's back, my listeners? You are because this is

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Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards, the podcast where we uh we talked

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Speaker 1: about the worst people in history and I make increasingly

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Speaker 1: stretch and uh terrible introductions because I just I'm losing it.

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Speaker 1: I'm losing my my everything here. But uh, you know

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Speaker 1: who's not losing his his his his person capacity. It's

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Speaker 1: Eli Oldsberg, our guest today, comedian, writer and host of

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Speaker 1: the Closure and pod is a Woman podcasts. Eli, are

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Speaker 1: you ready to learn some more about Kim Jong n?

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Speaker 1: I am, And you're right, I have it together, but

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Speaker 1: I'm hanging on by its threat. Just so the audience knows. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I threw out the threads long ago, and uh

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Speaker 1: let's just let just let's just get into this. In

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Speaker 1: March two ten, a South Korean navy vessel named the

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Speaker 1: Chionn sunk just a few miles south of North Korea's

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Speaker 1: nautical border. Forty six of the hundred and four South

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Speaker 1: Korean semen on board word were killed or possibly abducted.

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Speaker 1: Because the Chionan is believed by virtually everyone to have

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Speaker 1: been sunk from a torpedo by North Korean midget submarines,

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Speaker 1: possibly on the express orders of Kim Jong un, who

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Speaker 1: was at that point still just a leader in waiting.

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Speaker 1: For what it's worth, the North Korean government claims the

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Speaker 1: sinking was fabricated by pro Us conservative administration seeking to

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Speaker 1: incite a standoff between the two Koreas. Now, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to say exactly why North Korea would want the chion

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Speaker 1: And sunk. In subsequent years, Kim Jong un has continued

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Speaker 1: to deny any role in the attack and repeatedly refused

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Speaker 1: to apologize for it. So it may be as simple

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Speaker 1: as the fact that attacking the chion In gave him

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Speaker 1: something to rattle his saber about, an issue to loudly

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Speaker 1: deny complicity, and while also gaining respect and loyalty from

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Speaker 1: the navy for letting them sink their teeth into the

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Speaker 1: hated enemy. Whatever the truth of the sinking of the

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Speaker 1: chion And was masterminded by Kim Jong un, or at

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Speaker 1: least a plan he approved of, it wound up being

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Speaker 1: a very successful gamble. South Korea moderated its response to

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Speaker 1: the attack, and the North faced very little in the

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Speaker 1: way of consequences for the deaths of those men. People

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Speaker 1: have trouble understanding why dictatorships like North Korea would take

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Speaker 1: a risk like this, what they would have to gain

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Speaker 1: from kicking a hornet's nest. It's the same question people

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Speaker 1: ask when they see reports that the Assad regime has

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Speaker 1: gassed its own people. Why would they risk international sanctions

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Speaker 1: from using w m d S. Doesn't make more sense

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Speaker 1: for them to tow the line and not antagonize the

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Speaker 1: US and its allies. Well, the reality is that often

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Speaker 1: it does make sense to antagonize the U, S and

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Speaker 1: its allies, that often the gambles pay off. One could

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Speaker 1: make the same point about Hitler's quest to annex Czechoslovakia.

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Speaker 1: Many of his generals in fact, did, pointing out that

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Speaker 1: if it came to war, the Czech defenses would decimate

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Speaker 1: the still rebuilding German Wehrmacht, leaving them easy prey for

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Speaker 1: the French and the British. It seemed as if Hitler

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Speaker 1: had nothing to gain from pressing for the conquest of

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Speaker 1: Czecho Slovakia. But Hitler, like all dictators, was a gambling man.

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Speaker 1: So is Kim Jong Un, so is Bashar al Assad.

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Speaker 1: So are all dictators who wind up hanging onto power. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course, the gambles of dictators don't always work, said,

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Speaker 1: I'm who's saying gambled when he started kicking you in

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Speaker 1: weapons inspectors out of his country. He could have just

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Speaker 1: let them do their work and maybe managed to hang

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Speaker 1: onto power. But he gambled that he could stick a

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Speaker 1: thumb in the eye of his enemy, and their desire

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Speaker 1: to have would war would overwhelm their desire to punish him. Now,

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Speaker 1: Saddam was wrong, and it's also probable that nothing would

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Speaker 1: have stopped George W. Bush from invading Iraq. But Kim

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Speaker 1: Jong Una has so far been remarkably successful as a gambler.

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Speaker 1: He bet correctly on the chion in and he would

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Speaker 1: bet correctly many many more times in the years to come.

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Speaker 1: It's always interesting to me which of these guys like

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Speaker 1: because Kaddafi was another gambler, Like when he when the

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Speaker 1: civil war started against him and he started climbing that

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Speaker 1: he was going to wipe out the city of Benghazi

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Speaker 1: and kill all six hundred thousand people inside it just

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Speaker 1: bombed to the ground with his air force. That gamble backfired.

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Speaker 1: He got called on it, and he wound up killed

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Speaker 1: in the streets. Um. Yeah, but I think that often

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Speaker 1: tour it is like uh and also going back to

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Speaker 1: the previous episode we're talking about, like when it came

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Speaker 1: up about his you know, Kim's frame of reference. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is a kid from early on who

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Speaker 1: was critical of people and who was very uh you know,

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Speaker 1: very like in charge from the get go. Supposedly, how

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Speaker 1: much of that is probably anniversus. How much of that

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Speaker 1: is true is another story. But when you have those

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Speaker 1: frame of references, um, you're gonna double down until you

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Speaker 1: you meet your match or you you lose. And then

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Speaker 1: at that point, I think it really becomes like an

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Speaker 1: almost like in a like gambling addicts, where even if

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Speaker 1: you lose this round, it's trying to win the next

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Speaker 1: one to undo the losing. And then you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, Like it's it's it's it's momentum one way

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Speaker 1: or another. And it's the thing that Kim Jong un

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Speaker 1: will have as soon as he comes to power that

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Speaker 1: Kadafi and Saddam didn't have. For example, that I think

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Speaker 1: is a big reason why all of Kim Jong UN's

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Speaker 1: gambles have worked out a lot better than those other

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Speaker 1: dictators gambles did, is he has nukes and you have

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Speaker 1: that's like that's always having like a pair of aces

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Speaker 1: in your hand every time, like like, yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: just a little bit of extra assurance that your gambles,

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Speaker 1: no one's gonna call your bluff because you got those nukes.

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Speaker 1: Um so yeah Uh. As Kim Jong ill grew sicker

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Speaker 1: and sicker uh from the consequences of being a sixty

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Speaker 1: four year old man with a two million dollar a

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Speaker 1: year hennessy konyak habit, he carefully prepared the stage for

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Speaker 1: his son, increasingly shut up at public events together as

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Speaker 1: he'd done with his father. In the eighties, North Korean

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Speaker 1: propaganda mills began to spread stories of the young Jong

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Speaker 1: uns close relationship with his grandfather, even though the two

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Speaker 1: had probably never met. One famous parable is that Kim

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Speaker 1: il sung once asked Kim Jong un for an apple,

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Speaker 1: So Kim Jong un asked for a shovel so he

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Speaker 1: could dig up an apple tree and present it to

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Speaker 1: his grandfather. The message was that the North Korean people

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Speaker 1: should be prepared to go the extra new mile for

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Speaker 1: their new leader, just as he'd gone the extra mile

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Speaker 1: for Kim Il sung. Very subtle messaging here, now, to

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Speaker 1: say the least, Kim Jong UN's propaganda charm offensive had

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Speaker 1: begun with the military, but it quickly expanded to the

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Speaker 1: rest of society. According to the Great Successor quote, at

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Speaker 1: their compulsory weekly education sessions, people around the country were

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Speaker 1: having messages drilled into them about the incredible feats of

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Speaker 1: this young genius. They heard the one about firing a

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Speaker 1: gun when he was three years old, and the ones

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Speaker 1: about riding horses and driving cars at an age when

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Speaker 1: most kids are just learning their A. B. C's. It

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Speaker 1: was hard for people to believe these things. We just

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Speaker 1: laughed at them. It may have worked for kids, but

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Speaker 1: not for adults. Mr Kang, the drug dealer, told me,

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Speaker 1: but if you questioned it, you'd be killed. Some of

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Speaker 1: his efforts to sell the new leader pushed the boundaries

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Speaker 1: of credulity even in this totalitarian state. One officially sanctioned biography,

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Speaker 1: called The Childhood of the Beloved and Respected Leader Kim

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Speaker 1: Jong Un, claimed that he had perfect pitch, that he

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Speaker 1: could ride the wildest horses at age six, and that

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Speaker 1: when he was just nine, he was had twice beaten

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Speaker 1: a visiting European powerboat racing champion. The youngster had driven

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Speaker 1: at speeds of a hundred and twenty five miles an hour.

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Speaker 1: It said it was so unbelievable that the textbook was

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Speaker 1: recalled after whispered criticisms began circus letting that it distorted

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Speaker 1: and exaggerated the leader's early years. It was revised to

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Speaker 1: make it more credible. Wow, that's like, that's like playing

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Speaker 1: a game of telephone and then starting the game all

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Speaker 1: over again. Yeah, it's really interesting. But it's interesting that

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Speaker 1: they that they'll revise it. UM, which is going to

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Speaker 1: come up later. This guy is going to be a

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Speaker 1: little bit less actually dishonest to the people of North

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Speaker 1: Korea than his the private previous leaders have been. UM

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Speaker 1: a little bit teeny teeny bit. It's not a high bar.

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Speaker 1: So I do think it's worth talking about UM right

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Speaker 1: now sort of. How many of these crazy claims are

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Speaker 1: believed within North Korea? Um, because these are the stories

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Speaker 1: that most commonly make it out to the world media

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Speaker 1: about the Kims. Is all these crazy tales about like,

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Speaker 1: you know, how the like the you know, the lies

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Speaker 1: that are supposedly believed in North Korea about the Kims.

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Speaker 1: Uh And I found an article on a website called

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Speaker 1: North Korea News that was written by a former citizen

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Speaker 1: of the DPR a who fled home uh and included

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Speaker 1: interviews with several other like refugees from North Korea, and

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Speaker 1: this writer claims, quote, it is not wrong to say

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Speaker 1: they believe the propaganda before the death of Kim Il sung,

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Speaker 1: but the years of famine convinced many North Koreans that

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Speaker 1: their government could not be trusted anymore than you know,

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Speaker 1: most people trust governments. The article concluded, of people believe

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Speaker 1: what the government says, aren't quite sure what to believe,

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Speaker 1: and don't believe anything at all. So that's one dissident's

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Speaker 1: opinion on how many people buy the government lying on things, um,

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Speaker 1: which it makes sense. You know, if you've got twenty

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Speaker 1: percent who believe everything you say and back into the

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Speaker 1: hilt and fort who aren't willing to take a stance

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Speaker 1: one way or the other, than that forty percent who

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Speaker 1: realize that they're being lied to, aren't going to be

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Speaker 1: able to make anything happen. Yeah, they're already that they're

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Speaker 1: already in the minority. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Now. I would

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Speaker 1: also be remiss if I talked about North Korea's propaganda

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Speaker 1: and I didn't point out that the bullshit's pigott spews

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Speaker 1: both ways. The closed nature of North Korean society has

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Speaker 1: made it easier for the government to lie to its people,

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Speaker 1: but it's also made it easier for others to lie

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Speaker 1: about North Korea, since few people can come forward to

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Speaker 1: counter any falsehoods. I found one anecdote on a Christian

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Speaker 1: missionary news site called do the Word dot org that

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Speaker 1: I found deeply interesting. Now, this is from an article

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Speaker 1: written by a missionary who lived in South Korea with

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Speaker 1: his wife, and he's recalling a conversation he had with

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Speaker 1: another missionary. Quote. Miss Foley and I were in Korea

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Speaker 1: talking to a man doing North Korea human rights work

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Speaker 1: who shared with us the report of a tragic execution

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Speaker 1: in North Korea. A North Korean woman who had been

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Speaker 1: assisting a healthcare project of an international in GEO inside

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Speaker 1: North Korea. She was accused of being a spy and

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Speaker 1: after a rather summary investigation, executed. But here was the

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Speaker 1: tragedy that compounded that tragedy. The man said to us,

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Speaker 1: Americans want to hear stories about Bibles and people being

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Speaker 1: killed for having Bibles. I'm going to tell the American

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Speaker 1: media that she was killed for distributing Bibles. And so

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Speaker 1: he did, and so that's what American media reported. The

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Speaker 1: story was everywhere. It was completely untrue, a total fabrication.

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Speaker 1: The man who spoke to us wasn't even a Christian,

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Speaker 1: but in his mind he had accomplished his purpose punished

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Speaker 1: North Korea with bad press, even if the press was inaccurate.

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Speaker 1: His logic was this, if there was no Bible, there

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Speaker 1: would have been no news interest. If there had been

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Speaker 1: no news interest, the North Korea would have gotten away

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Speaker 1: with the killing of yet another innocent without any recrimination

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Speaker 1: at all. As it was, the outcry led to an

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Speaker 1: outpouring of donations to Christian NGOs doing North Korea work.

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Speaker 1: That's really interesting. That is really interesting. Yeah, it's funny.

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Speaker 1: I can't even like like hearing that. I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: almost had a lot of words for it because it's

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Speaker 1: so fascinating, Like it's just almost like a thing where

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Speaker 1: you're like, this is what else can you do with it?

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean, Like I'm already kind of

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Speaker 1: a little dumbounded. I'm like, well, yeah, yeah, totally. And

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Speaker 1: it's it's so like it's if you're if you're an

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Speaker 1: activist who hates the North Korean government, which is a

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Speaker 1: totally reasonable thing to hate um and you you see

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Speaker 1: it pass on to its third generation of ruler and

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Speaker 1: realize that, like, this ship is not dying out at all. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I I I can't even blame a guy in

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Speaker 1: that position for telling whatever lie he thinks will hurt

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Speaker 1: the regime, even though it just makes it a harder

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Speaker 1: for other people to like try and figure out what's

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Speaker 1: actually going on over there. I can feel the frustration. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And and and it just to kind of like almost

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Speaker 1: draw a parallel. It's like that there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: arguments happening here now in regards to how democrats approach

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Speaker 1: things and how how liberal and leftists approach things in

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Speaker 1: regards to like, well, you have to be above that,

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Speaker 1: and some people are like, no, you have to be

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Speaker 1: as fucking dirty as the other side is in order

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Speaker 1: to get it done. And that kind of seems like

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Speaker 1: it's obviously in a much more it's morphed a little

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Speaker 1: differently there, but it's kind of the same thing where

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Speaker 1: you're like, well, by any means necessary and at whatever cost,

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Speaker 1: and other people are like, well, no, you still have

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Speaker 1: a kind of sense of duty and ethics to this

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Speaker 1: whole thing. And I don't know and I don't. I

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Speaker 1: almost want to say the truth lies somewhere in the middle,

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Speaker 1: But at the same time to say that means that, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're kind of acknowledging it does have to be you

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Speaker 1: have to play dirty, and you know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what the answer would be there. Yeah, And I think

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Speaker 1: the frustrating thing is that the the only real answer

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Speaker 1: can be the truth is, uh, whatever works. So if

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Speaker 1: whatever succeeds, whatever is shown to have succeeded in the

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Speaker 1: long run, Uh, that's that's the truth. Um. And so

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Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to say, like, right now, is

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Speaker 1: that guy right to have lied or not? Well, it

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Speaker 1: looks like he was wrong to have lied because it

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Speaker 1: didn't help, um, but maybe like yeah, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: Like it's but what if it worked? You know, that

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Speaker 1: goes the other way where that that creates like eight

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Speaker 1: thousand arguments because like, well it worked, but at what cost?

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Speaker 1: And then some people are like, well, that's what you

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Speaker 1: had to do, what he had to do, So you

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Speaker 1: know it feels like it's ultimately like it can really

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Speaker 1: be a lose lose situation something like that. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is, like it's uh, it's oh messy. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's really fucked up. UM. So back

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Speaker 1: to Kim Jong un and his ailing father. UM. As

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Speaker 1: Kim Jong Ill got sicker and sicker and UH, it

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Speaker 1: began to become clear that death was imminent for him,

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Speaker 1: several actions were taken by the North Korean government to

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Speaker 1: very quickly prepare the way for Kim Jong il's air.

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Speaker 1: He started following his father on public inspections of military units.

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Speaker 1: His birth home was made a historical site. He was

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Speaker 1: made to assume leadership roles in the military and the

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Speaker 1: Communist Party and in the security UH divisions, and UH

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Speaker 1: he was made a for star general in two thousand ten.

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Speaker 1: So he's he's he's very quickly pushed up the ladder

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Speaker 1: much faster than his father had been because again, his

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Speaker 1: father's got like twenty years as the heir apparent and

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Speaker 1: he's really only got like three or so. UM. On

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Speaker 1: December seventeenth, two thousand eleven, Kim Jong Ill suffered a

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Speaker 1: catastrophic heart attack on his private train, probably driving around

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Speaker 1: to tell farmers had a farm better. His death was

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Speaker 1: officially announced two days later. Kim Jong un, for the

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Speaker 1: first time was addressed as the great successor to the

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Speaker 1: revolutionary cause. Now, two thousand eleven was a more optimistic

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Speaker 1: time and the rest of the world, the Arab spring

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Speaker 1: was still fresh, and it looked as if a surge

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Speaker 1: of democracy and freedom was in the process of overtaking

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Speaker 1: numerous dictatorships. Most international experts placed very little faith in

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Speaker 1: Jong UN's ability to hold power and maintain the rule

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Speaker 1: of the Kim's victor Chaw, who negotiated with North Korea

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Speaker 1: for the George W. Bush administration, were in an op

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Speaker 1: ed in The New York Times where he joyously predicted

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Speaker 1: the regime's collapse. The article was titled, well North Korea

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Speaker 1: become China's newest province. From the article, I love by

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Speaker 1: the way that he still calls it when when he

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Speaker 1: became the successor that the you know of the revolution?

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Speaker 1: What didn't the what revolution? It's always going on, man,

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Speaker 1: it's always a revolution in North Korea, baby, exactly. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's still that same thing where it's like it's like

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Speaker 1: that using the saying the democratic people, you know, of

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Speaker 1: the of the people for the people. Yeah, it's you

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Speaker 1: always want to associate yourself with something that's as lively

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Speaker 1: and exciting as a revolution because just being nobody. Nobody's

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Speaker 1: excited by being part of a government that just functions

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Speaker 1: like like what, well, you wanna you wanna, you wanna

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Speaker 1: you wanna just be care takeover and fucking uh Norway,

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Speaker 1: where the state pretty much works and things go about.

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Speaker 1: Find No, it's boring as hell. That's why nobody watches

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Speaker 1: No nobody. Nobody pays attention to Norway. Everybody pays attention

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Speaker 1: to America because we're a train wreck seven like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what people want to see. Yeah, surely feels like

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Speaker 1: at the moment, it's like a disaster where like everybody's

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Speaker 1: just gotten a huge car crash and then they're exchanging

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Speaker 1: insurance information and like a semi truck just comes along

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Speaker 1: and plows through that. Yeah, and that that semi truck

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Speaker 1: is driven by a seven year old Kim Jong on

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Speaker 1: a on a box yeah now and then and the

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Speaker 1: back cabs on fire. Yeah oh yeah, yeah forever on fire.

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Speaker 1: So yeah this uh, as soon as Kim Jong un

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Speaker 1: comes to power, um, like all these experts and pundits

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Speaker 1: start saying that, like the regime's about to fall. It

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Speaker 1: was unprecedented that Kim Il Sung passed on power to

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Speaker 1: his kid. There's no way it's going to happen for

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Speaker 1: three generations, um, Victor Chah wrote, Mr Kim's death could

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Speaker 1: not have come at a worse time for North Korea.

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Speaker 1: Economically broken, starving, and politically isolated. This dark kingdom was

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Speaker 1: in the midst of preparations to hand power over to

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Speaker 1: his not yet thirty year old son. The antested Kim

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Speaker 1: Jong Un, the great Successor, as he's been dubbed by

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Speaker 1: the state media, is surrounded by elders who are no

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Speaker 1: less sick than his father, in a military that chafed

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Speaker 1: his promotion to forced our general last year without having

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Speaker 1: served a day in the army. Such a system simply

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Speaker 1: cannot hold now as a general rule, when you have

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Speaker 1: people UH writing statements like this system simply cannot hold

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Speaker 1: about a system that is part of a foreign country

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Speaker 1: that we don't really know all that much about and

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Speaker 1: have great sources inside. You can assume they're talking out

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Speaker 1: of their ass a little bit, and Victor Chaw definitely was,

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Speaker 1: because all signs over the net last six years of

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Speaker 1: power for Kim Jong hun suggests that he has the

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Speaker 1: potential to be UH the most definitely a more successful

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Speaker 1: leader than his father ever was, and potentially even more

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Speaker 1: successful than his grandfather UM, which doesn't mean he's not

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Speaker 1: a terrible person. He absolutely is UM, But the initial

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Speaker 1: reactions to him in the world media were to make

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Speaker 1: fun of him as a bumbling, overweight simpleton Uh. In China,

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Speaker 1: he gained the nickname Kim Fatty the Third, and that

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Speaker 1: nickname spread faster than Chinese sensors could remove it from

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Speaker 1: their Internet. Reports began to surface in Western media that

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Speaker 1: he had murdered his girlfriend, who was a singer in

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Speaker 1: the North Korean Girl in a North Green Girl band.

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Speaker 1: The tabloids reported she'd been killed after he caught her

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Speaker 1: making lesbian pornography. Like most of the most lurid stories

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Speaker 1: of North Korea, this was complete bullshit. The supposedly murdered

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Speaker 1: woman later showed up just fine, clearly still in favor

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Speaker 1: with the regime, which is essentially the same thing that

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Speaker 1: happened with those negotiators for the nuclear summit. Right that's

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Speaker 1: become a trope. Yeah, That's also what I'm fascinated by,

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Speaker 1: because look like like K pop is having a moment

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Speaker 1: right now, more so in America than it ever has.

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Speaker 1: And I wonder what North Korean pop stars, what what

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Speaker 1: that kind of sounds like in comparison to South you know,

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Speaker 1: like K pop because K pop is referred to obviously

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Speaker 1: at South Korea. Yeah, and they've had there. There have

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Speaker 1: been some K pop acts that have performed in North

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Speaker 1: Korea altered versions of their songs in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years as part of sort of the mild reproach

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Speaker 1: MAA that's occurred between North and South Korea. M that's something. Yeah. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: when he initially came to power, Kim Jong UN's strategy

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Speaker 1: was to tie himself closely with his grandfather rather than

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Speaker 1: his market that's popular dad. This has been helped by

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Speaker 1: the fact that Jong Un bears a striking resemblance to

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Speaker 1: the old man, one that might have been enhanced through plastics,

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Speaker 1: Sir jury Uh. It's also equally possible that this, too,

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Speaker 1: is a lie, the Brookings Institute writes. Just a few

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Speaker 1: months after he became the leader of North Korea, on

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Speaker 1: the hundredth anniversary of his grandfather's birth, Kim delivered his

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Speaker 1: first public address as he invoked his grandfather's legacy. In

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Speaker 1: the lengthy twenty minute speech, he also affirmed his father's

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Speaker 1: military first policy, proclaiming that the days are gone forever

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Speaker 1: when our enemies could blackmail us with nuclear bombs. Yet,

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Speaker 1: even while endorsing his father's policy, he was making a

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Speaker 1: remarkable departure from his father's practice. For this was the

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Speaker 1: first time that North Koreans had heard their leader's voice

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Speaker 1: in a public speech since Kim ilsung's days. Kim Jong

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Speaker 1: ill shunned speaking in public during his almost twenty years

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Speaker 1: of rule. In fact, he only said like one sentence

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Speaker 1: and a mass public speech to his people. So right

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Speaker 1: out the gate, Kim Jong un is a very different

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Speaker 1: leader from his dad. Um spends a lot more time

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Speaker 1: in front of the people, does a lot more public speaking,

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Speaker 1: is a lot more hands on. Uh seems to be

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Speaker 1: a more functional guy in general. Now, Uh Kim Jong

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Speaker 1: un would continue to buck North Korean tradition and plow

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Speaker 1: his own path as the supreme ruler of the world's

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Speaker 1: most attack militarian state. On April twelve, the Korean Committee

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Speaker 1: of Space Technology launched load Star three, a brand new

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Speaker 1: observation satellite. The name was a reference to the Holy

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Speaker 1: star that supposedly bloomed in the sky when Kim Jong

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Speaker 1: ill was born. Despite its name, Load Star three only

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Speaker 1: stayed airborne for ninety seconds before crashing into the ocean. Now,

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Speaker 1: given what gets reported about North Korea, you might expect

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Speaker 1: the state propaganda to have denied any failure. Instead, they

403
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Speaker 1: leaned into it, admitting that load Star three had failed

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Speaker 1: to enter its preset orbit and announcing that their scientists

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Speaker 1: were looking into the failure. This marked the first time

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Speaker 1: that the North Korean regime openly copped to a mistake

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Speaker 1: of this magnitude. It started to appear as if North

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Speaker 1: Korea's new leader was trying to position himself as a

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Speaker 1: more reasonable, open minded ruler than his father or grandfather

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Speaker 1: had been. Now how true any of this is is debatable.

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Speaker 1: Vanity Fair spoke with Bill Richardson, former US Ambassador to

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Speaker 1: the UN and a guy who actually negotiated with North

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Speaker 1: Korean leaders in Pyongyang on several occasions. He generally is

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Speaker 1: seen as having decent connections inside North Korean leadership. In

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Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen, he said, so let me first

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Speaker 1: give you what others in North Korea have told me

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Speaker 1: about him. Number One, he frequently jokes with other officials

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Speaker 1: about not knowing anything that he is new and young,

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Speaker 1: and that he has no experience. He actually thinks that

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Speaker 1: is funny, So that is one. Number Two. He seems

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Speaker 1: to be insecure. However, he hears no one and he

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Speaker 1: does not like to be briefed about issues. That does

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Speaker 1: not mean he is not street smart or that he

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Speaker 1: is not skillful. Surmising the way he has replaced the people,

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Speaker 1: especially in the military, that he felt were not his people,

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Speaker 1: he has actually done that quite effectively and brought his

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Speaker 1: own people in or people he thinks are more loyal

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Speaker 1: to him. So wow, it's like one opinion. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that's also that sounds like somebody pushing thirty, like the

430
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: the you know what I mean, like anybody that's the

431
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, when I bought that up, I think, um

432
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 1: a little earlier, I had mentioned like I feel like

433
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 1: he because he's so young, like you know, he's gonna

434
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 1: be someone who's in hitting thirty. Which, by the way,

435
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,640
Speaker 1: when we're talking about earlier, like how all these things

436
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,919
Speaker 1: that could have affected him being the product of an

437
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 1: affair that his uncle and you know that them his

438
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: um uncle anunt fleeing and all those things. This is

439
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: when that ship starts getting actualized. Do you know what

440
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: I mean, like in terms of the your brain starts

441
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: processing those things and whatever whatever you're going to be

442
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: like as a result of that, is is coming coming

443
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 1: to now, Yeah, and that starts to come out in

444
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 1: Kim Jong un. And one of the things we see

445
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: from him is that he is um capable of forging

446
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: a new path from his ancestors and also capable of

447
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: at least presenting a more open appearance. But another thing

448
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 1: that he shows of his personality is that he is

449
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: capable of the same kind of brutality that has kept

450
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: his family in power for almost a century. He famously

451
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: had his uncle Jiang Song Tyke murdered, reportedly for not

452
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 1: standing up when Kim Jong un entered a meeting. One

453
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 1: witness later recalled his uncle kind of sat in his

454
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 1: seat and didn't really get up. He was very slow

455
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: to get up until the last minute, and then he

456
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,479
Speaker 1: didn't really do the full clap. On December of two

457
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: thousand thirteen, Jane was fired and arrested on state television.

458
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: He was not torn apart by ravenous dogs, as reported,

459
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 1: but he was executed, probably by firing squad. Kim Jong

460
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 1: Lun also had General Young Young Choll purged in two

461
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen after he fell asleep at a meeting where

462
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: Kim Jong lund was speaking. In this case, the execution

463
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 1: was as brutal as you'd expect based on the fake

464
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 1: news about the Kim family. General Chol was publicly shot

465
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 1: to death with anti aircraft cannons, which essentially would have

466
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: just yet disintegrated the guy. Yeah yeah, yeah, Oh my god,

467
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: look at someone who who eats up like a very

468
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: specific brand of B movie that has that kind of

469
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: ship to For that to be an actualized, non like

470
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: exaggeration without hyperbole is fucking bonkers. And it does sound

471
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 1: like the execution that you order if you're a kid

472
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: who's raised on Jean Claude Van Damn movies. Yeah yeah, yeah,

473
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. It's hard not to see a little bit

474
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: of a line there. If Kim Jong un was indeed

475
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: behind the sinking of the Chon. In the years since

476
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 1: two thousand tens seemed to have seen him double down

477
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: on his strategy of launching provocative attacks. Many of those

478
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: have occurred online. North Korea has long had a devoted

479
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: quadra of hackers attacking South Korean banks and TV stations,

480
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: but according to Brookings, quote. The state's hacking activities have

481
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: grown exponentially under Kim Jong Un. South Korea is hit

482
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 1: by about one point five million North Korean hacking attempts

483
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: every day. That's seventeen every second. According to Southern officials,

484
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: Pyongyang used cyber attacks to mount asymmetric warfare, the American

485
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: military commander in South Korea said at the end of

486
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen, North Korea provided a stunning illustration of

487
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: this theory, the first target with Sony Entertainment Revenge for

488
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: the film the Interview, which ended with a Kim Jong

489
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: Un character exploding in a fireball to a Katie Perry soundtrack.

490
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: Hacking is the country's strongest weapons, said another former student

491
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: in North Korea. It's called the secret war, he added.

492
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: American intelligence agencies say North Korea has a total of

493
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: more than one thousand cyber operatives living and working abroad

494
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,959
Speaker 1: where there is better access to the internet. Most are

495
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: in China, but somewhere in Russia and Malaysia. They have

496
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 1: one purpose to earn money for Kim Jong UN's regime. However,

497
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 1: they can malware, ransomware, spear fishing, sneaking into gambling and

498
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: gaming sites as long as they meet their targets. The

499
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: good ones can make a hundred thousand dollars a year,

500
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: ninety thousand for the regime, ten thousand for themselves. And

501
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: I'm curious, where were do you? Did you see the

502
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: interview in theaters when it had that small run? No,

503
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: you know, I torrented it, uh it once it got

504
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: like released onto the internet. Um, I did that whole thing.

505
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: So I remember I saw it at the Lost Polease three.

506
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 1: It was one of the few theaters that got it

507
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 1: in l a um and it was like so every

508
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: showing was sold out and and I remember that very well.

509
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: It was Christmas, Christmas Day it opened, and um, I

510
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: went on a whim and managed to get a ticket

511
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, great, okay, I'll watch it.

512
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: And it was such a It's been a while since

513
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 1: something's felt like because I remember it was there was

514
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: a thing that you're like, is there going to be

515
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: a consequence for me seeing a movie today? Um? You

516
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like that you couldn't help but

517
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: think that way kind of in the same way. Obviously,

518
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: the stakes were a little different, but I remember thinking, Um,

519
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,239
Speaker 1: you know, I remember after like nine eleven, they were

520
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,719
Speaker 1: like saying they're like, go shopping, go to the movies,

521
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: go live, you know, do the things that bring you pleasure,

522
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 1: but like like you know, double down on them. And

523
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: I remember the interview that was a thing that you're like,

524
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 1: go see the movie, don't let that strip your freedom.

525
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: Almost there was almost this like mentality towards that. Yeah,

526
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: and it was not a great movie. Yeah that's what

527
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: kind of Yeah, of course that that drives the whole

528
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: thing that you're like, well, even even on the level

529
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: of what those guys were delivering for the movie, you're like,

530
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: that's fine. Though, I will say, uh, if I remember correctly,

531
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 1: this was a few months ago. South Rogan was on

532
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: Fresh Air and and I had a lot to say

533
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 1: about it, and it was a pretty pretty and I

534
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: don't want to quote any of it because I'm really

535
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: my brain is kind of a little not remembering it

536
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: super well right now. But he was pretty articulated about

537
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: it and felt like, you know, had his had pretty

538
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: okay feelings about the whole thing. Like once it was

539
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: all said and done, well, we're gonna talk about the

540
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: interview a little bit more after this, uh, and we're

541
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: gonna talk about Kim Jong UN's nuclear ambitions after this. Um,

542
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: but I have to bring us into an ad pivot

543
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 1: right now because Sophie is not here to call them,

544
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: and I am very late on calling it this episode

545
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: because I I fall apart without Sophie to run this thing.

546
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: So that's a terrible ad segue, but I think that's

547
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: the best one to date, just admitting my incompetence and

548
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: throwing the dick pills. I wish, yeah, I wish more

549
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: podcasters will vulnerable. Vulnerable. Well, I'm bad at my job

550
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 1: by dick pills because erections are good. And that's it.

551
00:27:55,359 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: That's the ad fucking pivot. We're back, Okay, So we're

552
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: talking about the interview, which, UM, yeah, it's it was

553
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: an interesting provocation from North Korea because it's the first

554
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: time any state did anything like that, because there were

555
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: threats of violence. I remember they made claims about how

556
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: like if theater showed it, they would attack, there would

557
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: be attacks on the theaters that would be like nine

558
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: eleven in scale, which none of that happened, but they

559
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: did really funk with Sony's bottom line and throw a

560
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: lot of their internal emails and stuff onto the internet,

561
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: and it was kind of a preview of some of

562
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: what we'd see in the election with Russia and the

563
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: d n C leagues and stuff. Yeah, and it it.

564
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: What I remember about it specifically very well was that, like,

565
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: it is interesting that that threat about like going to

566
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: the movies it could have consequence or showing it at

567
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: a certain theater, and I remember it was the first

568
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: time that I was like, oh, we're actually more worried

569
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: about um like hacking and those kinds of attacks versus

570
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: um like a physical threat like that actually outweighed. I

571
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: remember that being somewhat the sentiment. And one of the

572
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,479
Speaker 1: things that's interesting to me if we're looking at how

573
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: Jong un is different from from Kim Jong il, is

574
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: you know, Kim Jong il had his own movie that

575
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: was arguably even more offensive from the perspective of the

576
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: North Korean state Team America, uh, where he's yeah, like, uh,

577
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: it's interesting that nothing was done about that. And maybe

578
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: it's just like the Internet was not as pervasive a

579
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: thing when that movie came out as it was when

580
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: the interview dropped. But I think it also might be

581
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: evidence that uh, you know, there weren't North Korea didn't

582
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: have nukes. Well, I'll also say in regards to Team America, Um,

583
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: it didn't. It didn't going into seeing it didn't ride

584
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: that same way of controversy. And they also um that

585
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: that movie isn't single minded in who it was going after.

586
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: It had so many people on their on their play

587
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: as as uh Trey Parker and Matt Stone are known

588
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: to do, which is that they go after anybody, you

589
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like to the point that they

590
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: literally had Isaac Hayes walked away from South Park because

591
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: they wouldn't even bend there, like, well, you're not the

592
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: exception here after going after scientology. So they were throwing

593
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: in everything and the kitchen sink in terms of who

594
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,479
Speaker 1: they went after h and So I think that was

595
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: the one advantage that they had, even though he is

596
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: the still the kind of the main villain and the

597
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: whole thing. But I mean, you know, they literally go

598
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: after everybody in that movie, even Michael Moore, who at

599
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: the time had just did um, Fahrenheit in Night eleven, Yeah,

600
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: Fahrenheit in and n eleven. Whereas the interview I think

601
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: came after this period where we were what in Obama's

602
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: second term, you know, he beat he beat he beat

603
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: Romney effortlessly. Um and uh. And Kim Jong un was

604
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: very new in power too. There was like this stuff

605
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: to prove too, Yeah, and and and not only that,

606
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: but he was just the sole focus in a way

607
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: that we weren't thinking about other people, you know, any

608
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: other movies that had come out at that point, like

609
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: Zero Dark thirty. These were things that we're looking back

610
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: on on victories, uh, in a certain way, whereas this,

611
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: you know, a movie like this is pure speculation. You know.

612
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: One thing I do remember about the movie that is

613
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: the scene where he goes out into the street and

614
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: it turns out it's all like a set, a constructed set.

615
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: And I do think about that and relate in relation

616
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: to everything you're talking about in terms of the stuff

617
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: you're reading off about how much of it is edited

618
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: versus real? Yeah, what if it's all just a huge veil? Yeah,

619
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: and it's uh. You know, I've heard from a couple

620
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: of North Korean dissidents who have written about sort of

621
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: our dissidence, even the wrong term, people who fled North Korea, Um,

622
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: who took offense to the interview in a way that

623
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: I don't think I've heard about them doing to Team America.

624
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: And I think part of that might be that kind

625
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: of the in addition to sort of like like it's

626
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: one thing to lampoon a dictator, um, and it's another

627
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: thing too kind of lampoon the idea of a revolution

628
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: against a dictation later and put a couple of white

629
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: guys from Hollywood at the center of that revolution. Um.

630
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: So I think that was something also that like some

631
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: people who some North Koreans or former North Korea, I

632
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: don't know like what terminology would invest, but some people

633
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: who grew up in North Korea and had to leave

634
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: because of the terrible government in that country reasons why

635
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: they too were offended with the interview, you know, even

636
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: though they have no no issue with wanting to fantasize

637
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: about Kim Jong un being blown up in a helicopter

638
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: or whatever. Um. Yeah. And yet I bet like I said,

639
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: and we obviously talked about this way back at the

640
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: beginning beginning of part one, which is that like I

641
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: bet this this guy watches whatever is out and you know,

642
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: whatever the big stuff, be it mc U stuff or

643
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: First Reformed or any you know, whatever movie, I bet

644
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: he takes all of that in with much more of

645
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: an open mind. I I would argue that that it's like,

646
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: because you're saying earlier on the consumption of Western art

647
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: and all of that, he must he must just have

648
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: a huge pile of just stuffy streams. Well, and it's

649
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: that's like one of the longest running dictator tropes because

650
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: Stalin loved Cowboy movies, um, and and Adolf Hitler loved

651
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,239
Speaker 1: American movies, and like one of the things that's like,

652
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of like another movie that we

653
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: that an American comedy star made about a dictator, Charlie

654
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: Chaplin's The Great Dictator um was very controversial at its time.

655
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: It kind of ended Chaplin's career or was a big

656
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: factor in Chaplain's career collapsing. He had to funded himself.

657
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: And um, we know Hitler watched it twice. We don't

658
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: know what he thought about it, but we know he

659
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: saw it twice. UM. So I would be very interested

660
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: if I almost want to know more what Kim Jong

661
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: un felt about Team America World Police. Um that I

662
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: want to know how he felt about the interview, just

663
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: because I feel like Team America has more artistic merit

664
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: to it, and I wonder if if even he could

665
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: lose himself and sort of like, oh, well, this is

666
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: some really cool puppets. This is like a neat they're

667
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: doing something interesting. Yeah, I would. I would that that's

668
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: a really good point, because again, I think part of

669
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: that is that there are so many other people that

670
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: get targeted in that movie and in terms of what

671
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: they go after and what they're commenting on that. I

672
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: wonder if he does look at it as like the

673
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: same way a celebrity attends their own roast. Yeah, so,

674
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: Kim Jong, un if if you listen to Behind the Bastards, uh,

675
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 1: drop us a line, let us know what you think

676
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: about Matt Stone and Trey Parker depicting your dad as

677
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: a singing puppet at Eli Olsburg. Let me know all

678
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: forward it if you whatever. You're he's on Twitter, right, yeah,

679
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 1: Kim Jong. Yeah he's a big Twitter guy. So um Yeah.

680
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: The what I do think the interview is illustrative of,

681
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: and a lot of coverage of Kim Jong and is

682
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: illustrative of it is just sort of how consistently underestimated

683
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 1: he's been um by a lot of world media. Uh.

684
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: He was familiously declared little Rocketman by our resident. A

685
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: New Yorker cover on January two, sixteen, showed him as

686
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: a fat baby playing with toy nuclear weapons and tanks. Um.

687
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: Especially early on in his reign, he was depicted as

688
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: like this idiot, fat child who had inherited an arsenal

689
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: and didn't really know what to do with the power

690
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: in his hands. Um. And I think that time has

691
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: proven all of those takes very wrong. Absolutely. I was

692
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: just thinking, as you're telling me all these things, I'm like, man,

693
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: every person involved in that, I bet on that day

694
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: got a real fucking pad on the back. And now

695
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: looking back at it, it's obviously it's a sign of

696
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: the times, but it's still like, holy sh it. Not

697
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: only were they off, but they were way yeah. Yeah.

698
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: Kim Jong un has carried out four of his nation's

699
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: six nuclear tests, including the largest in September two thousand seventeen,

700
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 1: where they detonated a hundred to one and fifty kilotone warhead,

701
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: roughly ten times the size of the bomb we dropped

702
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: on Hiroshima. Uh. He has tested ninety ballistic missiles, three

703
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: times as many as his father and grandfather combined. Under

704
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: his leadership, North Korea's arsenal has expanded to between twenty

705
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: and sixty nuclear weapons. His scientists to build I C

706
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: b ms that can theoretically reach the continental United States.

707
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: CIA analysts consider North Korea now to be the hardest

708
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: of hard targets, and much of that is due to

709
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: Kim Jong UN's incredibly successful military policies. According to the

710
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 1: Great Successor quote, nuclear weapons and missiles have been built

711
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: into lessons at school, with little children taught to have

712
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: pride in the programs and older ones taught about the

713
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: physics involved. An elementary school socialist ethics textbook published in

714
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: two thousands thirteen shows a man, a boy, and a

715
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: picture of an Unha three rocket. Is it true that

716
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 1: you gave joy to the respected leader? The child is

717
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,399
Speaker 1: asking his father, who appears to be an engineer. Kim

718
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: Jong Lun has lavished praise and luxuries on scientists of

719
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: all stripes since he became the States leader. Boundless is

720
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: Kim Jong UN's loving care for the scientists and technicians

721
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 1: who have played a big role in improving the people's

722
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: livelihood and beefing up the defense capabilities. State media reported

723
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: when the Great Successor visited Kim Chike University of Technology,

724
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:09,959
Speaker 1: the m I T of North Korea in two thousand

725
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: and thirteen. One of the most surprising images of Kim

726
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 1: Jong UN's tenure that they're not involved. Dennis Rodman came

727
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: after the ground test for a new rocket engine in

728
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: March two thousand seventeen. The respected Marshall and brown overcoat

729
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: and with a broad smile give a piggyback ride to

730
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: one of the key men involved in the project. The

731
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 1: clearly anguished rocket scientists who his decades his senior, bounced

732
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: around on Kim's back as other officers, all decked out

733
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: in all of green military uniforms, laughed and cheered. Yeah.

734
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 1: I always the Dennis Rodman thing. Uh, Like I remember

735
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: it and then I forget about it, and then I

736
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: remember it again, And every single time I hear it,

737
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: I literally chuckled myself. Yeah. Yeah, that that's in the

738
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: mix here too. Um. I love thinking about him giving

739
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: rocket scientists piggyback like it has its root in like

740
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 1: Korean wedding ceremonies, like the groom is supposed to like

741
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: put his bride on her back and carry him around.

742
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: So he's like almost like symbolizing his marriage to nuclear weaponry,

743
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 1: like the marriage of the regime to nuclear weapons. Totally

744
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: where he's like, and that ultimately serves as like a

745
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: thing where he's like, he's like, look at what a

746
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: fun guy we can be with with my nuclear family. Yeah, yeah,

747
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: it's it's so weird now. Under Kim Jong in, the

748
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: North Korean economy has also improved markedly, reaching estimated growth

749
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 1: of four to five percent per year, which is low

750
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: for the region, but substantially better than the country enjoyed

751
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 1: for virtually all of his father's tenure. Much of this

752
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: is because of reforms that Kim Jong un instituted, allowing

753
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: rudimentary markets to form or to be more accurate, allowing

754
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: the rudimentary markets that had formed already to not be

755
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: wiped out by state power. According to Andrei Lenkov, a

756
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: Russian North Korea expert, he decided to do what his

757
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: father was deadly afraid of doing. He allowed farmers to

758
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 1: keep part of the harvest. Farmers are not working now

759
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: as essentially slaves on a plantation. Technically the field is

760
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: still state property, but as a farming family, you can

761
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: register yourself as a production team and you will be

762
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: working on the same field for a few years in

763
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: a row. You keep of the harvest for yourself, and

764
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: this year, according to the first unconfirmed reports, it will

765
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 1: be between forty and that will go to the farmers,

766
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 1: so they are not slaves anymore, their sharecroppers. So yeah,

767
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: he's uh, like he's he's been involved in consistent reforms

768
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: and they seem to have been pretty successful as a

769
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: results oriented what what's weird is it with with you know,

770
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: when you look at like the the U. S economy

771
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: and and and other economies, it's obviously a combination of

772
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: of who's in office at that time, and then part

773
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: of it is is cycles obviously, and some of them

774
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: inherit the bad while others get to inherit the good

775
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: and call it their own. That doesn't seem to be

776
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: the case here because the families like the through line,

777
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: So whatever they're doing seems like they can they can

778
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 1: really not only brag about it, but in a way

779
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: that almost that can't come under scrutiny. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

780
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: that may be the case, um, and it's of course

781
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: made easier by the fact that they have so much

782
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: control that over outside. But also that's probably why he's

783
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: had to open things up somewhat, is that over the

784
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: last decade, North Korea has become a lot less closed.

785
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: They they've like because it's like the regime wasn't able

786
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: to stop much smuggling, like people have been getting in

787
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: DVDs and whatnot. They watch South Korean soap operas, they

788
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: watch American movies, they become aware of how the rest

789
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 1: of the world lives, and so they really kind of

790
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: like I think Kim Jong un had to knew that

791
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: he had to open things up to allow them to

792
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: gain some of the luxuries that they knew were out

793
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 1: there because the information the world just wasn't as closed anymore.

794
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: I wonder how much of how much of China he

795
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: uses as a reference point for that, because you know,

796
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: they allow art in, but it's very specific what goes

797
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: in and what goes out, and and how much of

798
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: it is you know, can be edited versus you know,

799
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: obviously the China's different cause they also have as they now,

800
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: there's funding coming from there but for for certain movies.

801
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: But and we're keeping box office in mind for them though,

802
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 1: But I wonder how much of that benefits North Korea

803
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: as well, not in terms of being in bed with China,

804
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: but what I mean is like how much of that

805
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: is mimicked yeah, and I couldn't tell you that, but

806
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: it does seem that the evidence suggests things are a

807
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 1: lot better in North Korea for the average people than

808
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: they were ten fifteen years ago, um ago, not that

809
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: long ago. I found a Vanity Fair quote and of

810
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair article I came across from Brian Myers, who's

811
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: a professor at South Korea's Dongso University. Uh. He has

812
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: defectors from the North visit his class and has been

813
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: doing this for years um to talk to his students,

814
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: But in recent years, you know, previously when he'd have

815
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: defectors in, they would talk about the unspeakable privation in

816
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: North Korea when they fled, and how rough it was

817
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: and how how many people were starving. But over the

818
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: last few years, the newer refugees who have it have

819
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: been more likely to describe the company as and these

820
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 1: are Brian's words, a cool place um where they would

821
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: have liked to remain if they hadn't been forced out

822
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: for one reason or another, usually due to government repression.

823
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: But like they described life as reasonably nice in the

824
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: place where they came from, and like we're more regretful

825
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: of having had to leave um So yeah, that's one

826
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: data point at least. Um. Now, speaking of data points, Eli, uh,

827
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: this is another AD pivot um, which I am just

828
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: I am just not on the fucking ball with the

829
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: AD pivots today. Um, I don't know. I mean ads,

830
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: ads are generated by data. Yeah, that's true. And data

831
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: is how they how they sell, how they hawk the stuff.

832
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I think it was a good segue. Yeah, Well,

833
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: contribute your data to these product producers and let's all

834
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: contribute to the glorious cycle that allows our our great leader,

835
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 1: which is the almighty dollar to Uh. I don't know

836
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: where this was going. Products. We're back, We're back, uh,

837
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: moving fast so that nobody notices how bad that last

838
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: AD plug was. So uh pro Kim Jong lun propaganda

839
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 1: has continued to be outwardly ludicrous during uh the later

840
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 1: year or the more recent years of his reign. Util Thus,

841
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: in fifteen, the Telegraphed published an article about a manual

842
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: that had leaked out of North from North Korean teachers,

843
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: ordering them to inform students that their new leader had

844
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: some spectacular talents. Quote. North Korean children are being taught

845
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 1: that Mr Kim is a skilled artist and a composer

846
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: of musical scores. While he was able to drive when

847
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: he was three. Mr Kim is also apparently a natural sailor.

848
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: At the age of nine, Kim Jong un raced the

849
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: chief executive of a foreign yacht company who was visiting

850
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: North Korea at the time, the books claim, adding that

851
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: he overcame the odds to claim victory. This is the

852
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 1: second rumor we've come across of him being really good

853
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: at racing yachts as a little kid. And it's also

854
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,879
Speaker 1: it's interesting the stuff that it's important because you see

855
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: the repetition in the different types of propaganda. He really

856
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 1: wants people to believe he can raise yachts and has

857
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: been doing so for a long time, and that he

858
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: was driving as a toddler. That's important, yea. And I

859
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 1: feel like the only one missing is that he flew

860
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: like a Harrier jet in you know what I mean? Like, well,

861
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: he actually is a pilot. He has a pilot's license.

862
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: He does fly things. Yeah, like like that's actually seems

863
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: to be real, Like he does fly planes and stuff. Um,

864
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 1: but he doesn't. He doesn't lie about having flown a

865
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 1: plane as a kid that I found, But he lies

866
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: about piloting a yacht for some reason, which like flying

867
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 1: a plane is impressive. That's a cool thing. If our

868
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: presidents and if if we had a president who could

869
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: fly a plane, that would be a thing they'd brag about.

870
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: Of course Bush bragged about it. Yeah, exactly. I was

871
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: just gonna say, it's like one of bushes a few

872
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: things where people were like, oh, yeah, well yeah, I

873
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: mean he did it so he could he could fly

874
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: that plane. Yeah, that ain't nothing. Yeah yeah, yeah, So

875
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: it's that's just so weird to me. And I don't know,

876
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, if you like, I don't even know

877
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: how much. One of the things I'd be really interested

878
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: to learn is how much input he actually has. Like

879
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: clearly if he wanted the propaganda to stop, he could,

880
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: but like does he approve it all or does he

881
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: just trust his propaganda people to put out whatever. And

882
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: they have kind of done like focus testing to be

883
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,919
Speaker 1: like the people are really soothed when they hear about

884
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: him driving a yacht at age three. That's that's a

885
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: good question. Here does this ship come from? Yeah? I

886
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: think well I don't. Yeah, I don't think he dreams

887
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: it up. I I can I can tell you. That's

888
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 1: where Trump serves as a reference point, because this is

889
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: a guy who literally will just on the flight say

890
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: something that is a complete crock of shit and about whatever.

891
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure at some point, let's let's put

892
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: it in his if he was like, yeah, you know,

893
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: I um, I flew a plane and then when I

894
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: got off the plane, I landed on a ship that

895
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: I actually steered back to home, we do I'll be like,

896
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: what a fucking liar? And and he has people doing

897
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: it for him. I do think there's an approval process.

898
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: That would be my guest. If it wasn't coming from people,

899
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: and he was just doing it like talking about it

900
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: on a podium in that same way, like pontificating in

901
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: this way, then I would say he's obviously not consulting

902
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: a team. But I think I think he has some

903
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 1: say in it. Somehow. He has to yeah, And that

904
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: must mean that it is really important to him that

905
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: people believe he was driving a truck at age three, ye,

906
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: because otherwise, if he had people just doing it without

907
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: any kind of saying it, like those those people who

908
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,399
Speaker 1: are making this up, they're they're one, they're playing without

909
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: a net and they're also putting themselves at a risk

910
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 1: for being killed because if they say something that makes

911
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: them look bad, he's gonna he's gonna have him killed.

912
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: And this is what's so interesting to me about trying

913
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: to psychoanalyze this guy from Afar and with his little

914
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: information as we really have about him, is you get

915
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: these these these snippets of his personality, Like you see

916
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: the result of his actual policies, which is pretty cold

917
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,839
Speaker 1: blooded and effective. He's been a very effective dictator. And

918
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 1: most of the sober analysis I've read about him recently,

919
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: people say he doesn't he doesn't seem to be crazy.

920
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: He seems to have a pretty reasonable understanding of the

921
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: geopolitical situation. Uh, he's been very smart with his gambles

922
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,240
Speaker 1: and they've mostly paid off for him. But you also

923
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: get these hints that he there are chunks of him

924
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: that never grew up that are still childish, like this

925
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: desire is a kid, Like this lying about driving a

926
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: truck at age three is like the kind of lie

927
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: a seven year old would tell in kindergarten. Um. I

928
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: think that goes back to the mythology thing that the

929
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: family has a crew line. Um. And and I think

930
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: if he were to x all that out, it would,

931
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 1: um it would almost be like writing off the nonsense

932
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: of of past, you know what I mean, Like like

933
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 1: there's this thing there that I think he that will

934
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: always be there. But I'm sure there's like a soft

935
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,919
Speaker 1: rollout of lessening it. Maybe Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's

936
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: really hard to say like it, Yeah, it's it's definitely.

937
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: Definitely I'll say it's it's less ridiculous than the stuff

938
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: you were hearing about his dad. So yeah, maybe it

939
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: has gotten milder, But there are like in terms of

940
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: like just trying to figure out what this guy's like personally. Um.

941
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,439
Speaker 1: One of the other data points we have is the

942
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen trip that Dennis Rodman, former Chicago bull

943
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: star and uh actor in the Perfect movie The Minis,

944
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: which you should really see if you haven't seen, And

945
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: just to tie it all together with this podcast, in

946
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: Double Team with John clad In Double Team with John

947
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: clad Van damn that's damn right, Van damn right. As

948
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, Um, so yeah, Rodman in two

949
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 1: thousand thirteen travel to North Korea with vice producer Jason

950
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: Mohika and a camera crew, all of whom apparently got

951
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: ship faced with Kim Jong un after like a series

952
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 1: of a big public press events. Now, unfortunately there's not

953
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: video footage of all of this because at a certain

954
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: point they weren't allowed to have their cameras on. But

955
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: the Great Successor has a pretty good rite up of

956
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: what happened when things went off the rails, and it paints,

957
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, it adds a little bit of extra

958
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 1: depth to our picture of Kim Jong un. So I'm

959
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 1: gonna read that exert now, Uh Mohika, who's the vice editor,

960
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: feeling emboldened by the shows you, which is like like

961
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 1: a type of liquor in that part of the world,

962
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: kind of vaguely analogous to like schnops, Maybe Uh invited

963
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 1: Kim Jong un to make the return journey to New York.

964
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: He then raised his glass, a tumbler of Johnny Walker

965
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: black that the waiters had been filling throughout the night

966
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: as if it were wine, and took a sip. All

967
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the young dictator was yelling and gesturing

968
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: at him. For a second, Mohico wondered if he'd committed

969
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 1: a grave error. Then the translator kicked in with a

970
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: bottoms up. It was a command performance. Mohica told me

971
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: the evil Dictator was demanding that I chugged my drink.

972
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:46,800
Speaker 1: So I chugged my drink. He was woozy, but he

973
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 1: still had the mic. He slurred, If things carry on

974
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: this way, I'll be naked by the end of the night.

975
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: Madame Choe had a look of complete disgust on her face,

976
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: but as the translator, she relaid the mark to Kim

977
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: Jong Un, who broke out into laughter. The Shows You

978
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: was working, Kim's face grew progressively to ear and a

979
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: smile grew broader, revealing the discolored teeth of a heavy smoker.

980
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,359
Speaker 1: Mohica estimated that The Great Successor had at least a

981
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: dozen shots of Shows You. Everyone was in the vice

982
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 1: producer's words, wasted. At one point, the Globe Trotters were

983
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: on stage hand in hand with the Morongbong band members. Later,

984
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: Rodman had the microphone and was singing My Way while

985
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: Barthelomy played the saxophone, leaning back with his eyes closed

986
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: like he was channeling Kenny g Rodman sent his sidekick

987
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: over to Mohica to tell him to tone down their

988
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,399
Speaker 1: raucous behavior. That's when Mohica realized how out of hand

989
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: things had become. You know, it's wild when an internationally

990
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 1: notorious bad boys telling you to cool it. Everything else

991
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: is hazy. If I was being my best journalist, I

992
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: would have stayed sober and committed everything to memory, said Mohica.

993
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: But we all got really caught up in the spirit

994
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: of the evening. After several hours, Kim Jong uns stood

995
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: up to give the final toast. He said that the

996
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: event had helped promote understanding between the peoples of the

997
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: two countries. So he's this guy who's capable of kind

998
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 1: of defintely navigating the takeover of power from his father

999
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 1: and like the content nuance of an unprecedented like chain

1000
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: of succession within a communist country, and also the kind

1001
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,760
Speaker 1: of guy who is going to get wasted with Dennis

1002
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,760
Speaker 1: Rodman when he comes in and like like like uh,

1003
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: clearly like aspects of him that didn't grow up in

1004
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: aspects of him that are very cunning, but like you

1005
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: get this like these flashes that he still has this

1006
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: like lack of impulse control in some ways that his

1007
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: dad did totally and again, and I hate to keep

1008
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: chalking it up to that, but that's age right there.

1009
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy didn't get to um, you know.

1010
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: I mean, look, at the end of the day, I

1011
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: do think even people of whatever stature, anybody who like

1012
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: comes from that type of privilege, is gonna wanna just

1013
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: fucking party like yeah, you know. And it's like the

1014
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: one thing people at that level can't do, which to

1015
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 1: be clear, as a champagne problem. They can't just be

1016
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: normal fucking people. They can't just go out and party

1017
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: and be seen partying and be seen being in any

1018
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: way shape or form sloppy, drunk, even buzzed. Yeah, and um,

1019
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 1: it's it's just interesting to me that that same guy

1020
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: is capable of the discipline, plan and planning that was

1021
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: necessary to uh. I mean, he really came off as

1022
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 1: the winner in the nuclear summit with our president, where

1023
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: he didn't give up anything we didn't get up end

1024
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: up getting a single real concession from North Korea and

1025
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: that and he got the thing that every generation of

1026
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: North Korean leader before him had failed to get, which

1027
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: was a direct meeting with the United States President. Um,

1028
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: which is the kind of legitimacy that the North Korean

1029
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: regime has always wanted. And I think from like their

1030
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 1: point of view, like if you're wondering, like why they're

1031
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: so like in terms of like why they're so married

1032
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,760
Speaker 1: to their nukes, Like number one, they see what happens

1033
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 1: to Saddam Hussein and Momar Kadafi who like give up

1034
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,839
Speaker 1: their nuclear programs and get murdered as a result of it.

1035
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: And they also see like, if you have nukes, you

1036
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: can get an American president to the table with you,

1037
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: and that brings you a kind of legitimacy that nothing

1038
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: else does. Um. And you know, it was not Kim

1039
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,879
Speaker 1: il sung who managed that. It was not Kim Jong

1040
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: il who managed that. It was Kim Jong n the

1041
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: little rocket man, the kid that like everybody made fun

1042
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: of when he took power. Um, which is I don't know,

1043
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,359
Speaker 1: that's really interesting to me. Like he comes across is

1044
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: maybe the most adept of his family, and which really

1045
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 1: says something because this is the period I think in

1046
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: in terms of all the cultural shifts we've had in

1047
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: the past since since that family first took hold, this

1048
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: is the one where um, and I'm talking about on

1049
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: a global level, for everybody in terms of any kind

1050
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: of career, anything you're doing, this is the period I

1051
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: feel like things are the most in freefall, and it's

1052
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 1: the hardest to adapt to things because you don't know

1053
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: what what's going to be the thing or what's the

1054
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,399
Speaker 1: right way to go about it. And yet it does

1055
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,720
Speaker 1: make you one here, like in that talking about gambling before,

1056
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: if it's just him rolling the dice every time, or

1057
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 1: if it's him with a specific instinct for this ship,

1058
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: like what is it? Because a lot of other people

1059
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: in so many different ways have failed in terms of careers,

1060
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: in terms of all these other things because of the

1061
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 1: paradigm shift of the last like ten to fifteen years

1062
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: has been so severe, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah,

1063
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,280
Speaker 1: and it it really has. And if if nothing else,

1064
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: like the message that you get from Kim Jong UN's

1065
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,760
Speaker 1: story is like, if you're going to be a dictator,

1066
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: you better have a couple of fucking nukes in your

1067
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: pocket because like that really smooths out your ability to

1068
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: handle the travails of the world. Oh totally. And and

1069
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 1: it is. And I guess in talking about all this

1070
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 1: stuff where we're saying we're like the past few years

1071
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: he's managed to adapt to these things. That obviously is

1072
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: the big uh, you know, the key the secret. Yeah,

1073
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: and he's you. As the years have gone on, there

1074
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: have been other things we can tell about him, you

1075
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 1: know from pictures. We know that he's gotten more and

1076
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 1: more obese, shall we say into this? In fourteen he

1077
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 1: was out of commission for six weeks and when he

1078
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 1: came back into the public eye, he was wearing a

1079
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: walking stick. The rumors that circulated widely in the news

1080
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 1: where that his addiction to rich Swiss mment tail cheese

1081
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: had made him so fat that his ankles had collapsed. Uh.

1082
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: More realistic and sober appraisals of things suggest that he

1083
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: probably just got gout better known as Paul Manafort's disease. UM.

1084
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: So kind of the end of this. The picture that

1085
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,280
Speaker 1: we're left with of Kim Jong un is a cunning,

1086
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: brutal and sometimes brilliant, generally balanced, insane dictator who knows

1087
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: how to sort of weigh practical repression of his people,

1088
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 1: um with enough freedom to maintain power and give them

1089
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: a sense of improvement and hope for the future. Um.

1090
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: But he's also a guy of strong appetites and little

1091
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: self control when it comes to desires of the flesh.

1092
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: And I can't claim to know the man but based

1093
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: on my reading, the most compelling picture I think I

1094
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: found of his personality was written out in a Vanity

1095
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: Fair article by Mark Bowden. Uh Mark notes, at age five,

1096
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: we are all the center of the universe. Everything our family, parents, home, neighborhood, school,

1097
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: country revolves around us. For most people, what follows is

1098
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,800
Speaker 1: a long process of dethronement. As his majesty, the child

1099
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 1: confronts the evermore obvious and humbling truth. Not so for Kim.

1100
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: His world at age five has turned out to be

1101
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 1: his world at age thirty or verily, very nearly so

1102
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 1: everyone does exist to serve him. The known world really

1103
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: is configured with him at his center. The most senior

1104
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: men in his kingdom have power because he wills it,

1105
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: and they smile and bow and scribble notes and moss

1106
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: and little notebooks whenever he dines to speak. Not only

1107
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 1: is he the one and only Kim jong Un, he's

1108
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: officially the only person who can carry the given name

1109
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 1: Jong Un. All other North Koreans with that name have

1110
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: had to change it. Multitude stand and cheer for the

1111
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: merest glimpse of him. Men and women and children weep

1112
00:56:55,640 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 1: for joy when he smiles and waves, so Yeah, that's

1113
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: what I got. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing more to like,

1114
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: it is a thing where I mean, I don't know.

1115
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: That's that. It's what I've been thinking about a lot. Actually,

1116
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:14,800
Speaker 1: for this entire coverage of all of this has been um,

1117
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: you know a lot of people talk about nature versus nurture.

1118
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: This is pure nurture, do you know what I mean?

1119
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: Like this guy has it doesn't matter what nature whatever,

1120
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: he's chemically bound to whatever, it is pure nurture. I

1121
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: think that has shaped him through and through a lot.

1122
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: If this kid hadn't been the son of a dictator,

1123
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: he would have been that kid that you like played

1124
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: PlayStation sports games with and like through the controller across

1125
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: the room when he lost. And then as he grew up,

1126
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 1: he either would have like become an in cell and

1127
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: joined the alt right, or he would have like gotten

1128
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 1: some sense smacked into him somewhere along the line and

1129
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 1: like grown up as a human being and like become

1130
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: a functioning member of society or become all of those

1131
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 1: tech dudes like IMRCI, even a merciless version of Well,

1132
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: a lot of guys are merciless, and he's would I

1133
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: would argue he would probably become an app developer that

1134
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: would shift everything for the better for his pockets and

1135
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 1: the worst for everyone else. Yeah, if he wound up

1136
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: having that kind of he is pretty mechanically inclined, so maybe,

1137
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: but you know, he's UM. I think one of the

1138
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: things that ought to be clear to everybody at this point,

1139
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: after seeing how he's taken advantage of the Trump years,

1140
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: is that he was made fun of pretty much roundly

1141
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: when he first came to power. But he's proven himself

1142
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: to be one of the most able people in global politics. Um,

1143
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 1: which is frustrating, and it's like not a fun note

1144
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: to end these It's way more fun when we can

1145
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: end them on like the you know, dying from self

1146
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 1: indulgence or being killed by their people or whatever. But like,

1147
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 1: he's in power, and he'll probably be in power for decades.

1148
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: He's only he's not even forty yet. Like, yeah, well,

1149
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: if if whenever his rain ends, if the if the

1150
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: pods still going, if climate change hasn't rendered a podcast obsolete,

1151
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: we should talk about it again. Yeah, we we can.

1152
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 1: We can finish his story either in a podcast or

1153
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 1: in what I'm sure will be the method of communication

1154
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: of the future, which is shouting into quant shells from

1155
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: underneath dead power lines. Uh, like the like the Tributors

1156
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 1: used to do. Yeah, like the Tributors of old. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Eli,

1157
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: you've got some plug doubles to plugged. Yes please at

1158
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: Eli Olesburg on all the socials, And you can listen

1159
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: to Closure of the Podcast That Never Ends on iTunes,

1160
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: Spotify or Every Year podcasts, and we talk about I

1161
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: just interview people in regards to certain events or situations

1162
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: in their lives or anything they want to talk about

1163
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 1: and if they found closure in it, much like we

1164
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 1: haven't found closure in the story. Uh. And yeah. You

1165
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 1: can also listen to Pot as a Woman, which I

1166
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: co host with Cresa Lee, and we do track by

1167
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: track breakdowns of Ariana Grande songs and whether our guests

1168
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: like them or not. And lastly, if you're in l A,

1169
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: please come to Performance Anxiety at the Pleasure Chest secondary

1170
00:59:56,360 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: Dave every month. Check out Performance Anxiety at the Treasured Chest.

1171
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: Check out Ellis Treasure pleasure Chest, pleasure Chest, pleasure Chest.

1172
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: Oh that's a way better name than treasure Chest. Uh.

1173
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:12,919
Speaker 1: Check out Eli's podcasts um and uh you know, uh

1174
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 1: check out this podcast on line Up Behind the bastards

1175
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: dot com. Find us on Twitter, at Instagram, and at

1176
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 1: bastards pod. Um. This is the episode that everybody wanted

1177
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 1: you need to do, and I'm sorry that it ends

1178
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: with no closure and that it's not nearly as funny

1179
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: as as you are all hoping for. But this is

1180
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 1: the best information I could bring you on the kims.

1181
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 1: So be careful what you fucking ask for, because sometimes

1182
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: it's just a bummer. Um, that's the episode. Buy a

1183
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: T shirt, ONTI public dot com. We're done. Go uh

1184
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: We'll build your own Nates. It's the only way to

1185
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: be saved.