WEBVTT - Damages | Jenifer's Story 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.360 This podcast discusses sexual assault. Please take care while listening. 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:07.960 He wanted us to think he was cool. He wanted 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:10.160 to be one of the kids. He wanted to fit in. 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:10.800 And it worked. 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:12.880 We were like, Oh, this guy is letting us get 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:15.720 away with pretending we're in this club and getting credit 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:16.079 for it. 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:20.800 That's awesome. Let's all do it. We're all president, let's go. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.720 And we all thought it was super funny and it 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:24.440 was just kind of like. 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:25.160 A running joke. 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:31.160 So the idea of that carrying on for other reasons 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:32.080 is terrifying. 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:48.200 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, Episode four Damages. 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.560 In the summer of twenty twenty one, Jennifer texted our 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:59.760 show's production team there was news about Spencer's parole. Jennifer 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:01.840 was a car on location at work. 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:04.760 Well, you know, when I emailed Spence the other day, 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:09.000 he said that he was having his parole hearing today. 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.479 So I don't know. It's just really affected my whole 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.600 nervous system. Knowing that I may find out today that 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:18.240 he's getting out soon. 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:19.520 Oh my god. 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:22.560 And I'm not really prepared. 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:22.880 For that yet. 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:24.520 What went through your mind? 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.960 I feel like he was just put in prison, and 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:33.600 now he's already getting out. It's hard because with him 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:39.480 in there, I felt safer. With him coming out, not 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:40.160 so much. 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:42.920 I'm sorry, Jack. 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.800 He got some time off of his sentence for good behavior. 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.200 He's been a teacher's aid and I'm sure he's been 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.680 leading Bible studies, and so he's already gotten several months 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.520 knocked off of his sentence and he was in front 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.240 of the parole board today. I don't know how it works, 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.280 but I mean, what if he gets out tomorrow? 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.919 You know, do you know if anybody gets to write 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:15.920 a letter to submit against the parole because I imagine 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.000 the victim of the sexual assault must be made. 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.360 Aware that he's up for a parole, right well, I 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:27.760 mean I think the victim has to be told when 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:28.720 he gets released. 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:30.720 How were you. 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.520 Approaching parole or was it just something that you get 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:35.200 to kind of kept at arm's length. 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:37.880 I kind of have been keeping it at arm's length. 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:43.640 I just don't want to think about it. I just 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.040 hate being this person on set. You know a couple 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.440 of people are like, you're kind of quiet today, Jennifer, 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:52.280 And you know, I don't want to be that mopey person. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:54.360 I just I can't help it right now. 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:56.960 You know. 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.799 It's like when you get past heartache, you usually get 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:07.800 to move on, and I just feel like I'm going 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:08.880 to be starting. 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:12.079 Back over again for a little bit with him out 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:18.919 and knowing that he's out, getting. 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:22.200 Past the heartache and starting over. It's something that Jennifer 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:26.440 and the sexual assault victim had to do. Both described 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:30.480 shame as a big hurdle, even when you know you 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:34.200 aren't the guilty party. Jennifer would feel it when she 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:35.640 was out in public. 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:41.200 People are looking at me and kind of, oh, that's her. 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.360 I've gotten a lot of those looks before. 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:52.120 Oh your husband was the one, Oh you're her. 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.200 The sexual assault victim had her anonymity that didn't protect 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.680 her from shame. Just turning on the television after Spencer's 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.440 arrat revealed how some community members viewed her. 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:04.480 You don't always know what the truth is. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.440 I mean, someone can say something about somebody just to 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:08.960 hurt their reputation, You don't know. 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:10.960 I would always want to know the history of this person, 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:12.160 make him complain as well. 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.240 You know, what kind of history do they have? Could 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:15.520 they provoke something like that? 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.600 Perhaps it's the reason the victim was fearful to come 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:23.240 forward sooner. After Spencer Heron was arrested, the victim never 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:27.240 heard from any school official. Not one person reached out 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:31.039 to ask how she was doing. Even with Spencer behind bars, 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:36.039 The victim had an uphill battle. Eventually, Jennifer would learn 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.800 how he abused his role as a teacher and mentor 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.680 and became a predator in the halls of Kill High School. 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.520 My name is Mike Rathie. I'm a lawyer in Atlanta 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:45.600 and I help people. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.520 Mike's a civil attorney. The sexual assaul victim's parents reached 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:51.679 out to him because they wanted to pursue a case 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:52.839 against Kill High School. 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.839 Most of our cases are people who are critically or 0:04:55.880 --> 0:05:00.480 seriously injured, and a small percentage of our cases areeople who, 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:05.039 like this client, are victims of sexual assault in places 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:09.840 like hospitals, apartment complexes, hotels, and schools. 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.960 Mike and one of his colleagues went to meet the 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:14.760 victim and her parents at their home. 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.880 When we left my client's house, we started reading a 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:21.000 text message log that had been given to the police, 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:25.039 and there was a lot it was straight out of 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:29.680 to catch a predator reading this chat history as a 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:32.400 thirty something year old. I felt like I was Chris Hansen. 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:37.480 I can see the manipulation. I can see the terms 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:39.799 that are being used, the words that are being twisted, 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.560 and so on. This is one of those cases that 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.760 we left that house and said this is really fucked 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:51.080 up and we have to do something. I'm actually my 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.159 bloods boiling right now as I'm telling the story, because 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.200 I remember we left the house so angry, and I'm 0:05:56.240 --> 0:06:01.360 still angry, maybe even angrier to this day. 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.720 As the sexual saw victim from Kel High School sought 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.799 therapy and support for what happened to her, she began 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:12.279 to fully grasp how she had been manipulated abused. She 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:16.160 was angry, angry that Kell High School had never addressed 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.640 it in a meaningful way. Mike Graevey spent a lot 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.520 of time piecing together how it happened. It took him 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:25.920 down a path of investigating Kell High School's after school clubs. 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:30.080 The clubs were key to Spenser getting the victim alone 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:31.760 without raising suspicion. 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:34.400 The way it's supposed to work is that students are 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.280 supposed to get together and say we'd like to have 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:40.320 a club. We're really interested in this. They would then 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.480 go to a faculty member who probably has an interest 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.640 in the club or at least helped spur that interest, 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.520 and say, we really like you to be our leader 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.640 for this club. Would you please do that. There has 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.000 to be a certain number of signatures showing student involvement. 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.040 Parents have to agree that if this club was created, 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:57.440 then my. 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.640 Child would be allowed to participate in the club. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.400 There's a budgeting component to it, and then there's administrator 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:08.440 approval and the faculty advisor has to submit a plan 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.600 of what is the goal the purpose of this plan, 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.960 how will we execute it? Then the administration is supposed 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:15.680 to formally approve or disapprove it. 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:19.880 Spencer had a history of sponsoring clubs, but some of 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:21.040 them were fake. 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:26.680 My name is Julia and co Charin was my high 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:31.120 school video productions teacher. I graduated from cal High School 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:35.520 in twenty ten. I had him for my junior year 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:36.480 and my senior year. 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:38.080 A lot of my. 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.640 Best friends had him freshman and sophomore too, so I 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:42.600 always knew of him and I wanted to be in 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.080 his class because it was a sought after program. It 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.720 was a cool class to be a part of. Even 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:49.640 when I didn't have him We would hang on his 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.200 classroom and in the edit rooms. 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:54.680 Everyone who had him loved him. 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:59.160 He was the fun class, the fun teacher, the fund program. 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:01.880 You got to be on the announcements, You got to 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.120 work on these cool projects and like kind of roam 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.840 the hallways and get some b roll while other kids are, 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.840 you know, sitting in their classes learning about history or math. 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.200 It didn't feel like a class. 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.679 When I was a junior coach, heron started a fake 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:22.920 club and we all put it on our It wasn't 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.520 your resume, but we put you know, president of movie club. 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.640 It was called movie club, you know, on the chair 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:33.000 of movie club, which it was all a fake club. 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:35.440 I think we took like a picture together for it, 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:36.360 maybe in the yearbook. 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:36.720 I don't know. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:38.360 I have to like it, but it wasn't really we 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.000 never met. It was like it was really fake, Like 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:41.760 it was pretend. 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.079 Why would a teacher make up a school club because 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:46.360 he wanted us to think he was cool. 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.439 He wanted to be one of the kids. He wanted 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:49.040 to fit in. 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:49.600 And it worked. 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.439 We were like, oh, this guy is letting us get 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.240 away with pretending we're in this club and getting credit 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:54.600 for it. 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.080 That's awesome, let's all do it. 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:00.080 We're all president, let's go, and we all thought it 0:08:59.920 --> 0:09:00.840 was super. 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:02.960 Funny and it was just kind of like a running joke. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:08.440 So the idea of that carrying on for other reasons 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:09.359 is terrifying. 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:21.800 In twenty fifteen, Spencer's sponsor a drone club. It began 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.720 as a real club with real members and real meetings. 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.040 Students even had fundraisers, but they would sell T shirts 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.560 and videos so they could purchase a real drone. The 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:35.920 problem was the club never went through official channels. I 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:37.120 was never authorized. 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.280 If you have a club that doesn't go through this process, 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.120 then you don't have that oversight and you don't have 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.920 any of that guidance. You don't have the faculty member 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.560 answering or reporting to their administration. Instead, you have the 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.199 faculty member being able to do whatever it is that 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:57.000 he wants whenever he wants to, and that's what happened here. 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.560 Eventually, the drone club died out and stopped having meetings, 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:05.080 but Spencer continued to see one member of the club. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.920 It continued to be a time and a place in 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.880 a school where a teacher had full access to some 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.680 place to take a student without the student having to 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:19.080 leave school grounds because typically when you leave school grounds, 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.000 you got to tell your parents where you're going. So 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.079 this teacher has a perfect opportunity to lure a student 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.840 into a place where they won't be caught and where 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.720 they can do whatever he wants to do. It wasn't 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.120 what she wanted to do, it was what he wanted to. 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.320 Do, and what he wanted to do was take advantage 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:36.200 of Mike's client. 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:38.800 If you remember when you were a kid, every once 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.000 in a while, an administrat would come in your classroom 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:44.960 and watch your teacher. That's the administration taking active role 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.320 to make sure that the teachers are doing their jobs, 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.720 that they're effectively conveying their message to students, that they're 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.760 disciplining students properly, that everything that's going on in the 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.240 classroom is the way it should. If you have a 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.200 club that doesn't go through this process, then you don't 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.160 have that oversight and you don't have any of that guidance. 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.880 You don't have the faculty member answering or reporting to 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:07.480 their administration. 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.520 Hell High School's administrators deny all knowledge of the drone club. 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.680 There was nothing to oversee because it didn't officially exist 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:16.600 as a school club. 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:21.200 He's flying a drone over the school at football games 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.839 to get drone shots for the drone club, which isn't 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:29.240 supposed to exist. So the skeptic in me says, the 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:31.280 school did know there was a club, they just didn't 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.679 give a crap. They knew there was a club, they 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.520 actively participated in the club, they benefited from the club, 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.280 they allowed the club, but they just didn't feel or 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:44.040 didn't care enough to go through the process of properly 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:47.120 authenticating it and then properly monitoring. 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.160 It and making sure that students weren't in danger. 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.079 Was it because Spencer Heron was a department head or 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:56.600 trusted faculty member. No one knows. Mike points out that 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.880 there's an administrator whose job it is to supervise after 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:01.200 school clubs, the. 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:02.640 Vice principal, Student Stoddard. 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.800 It's her job to authenticate clubs and to monitor them. 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.160 And when she's sitting in her office listening to the 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.480 PA system and it says there's a drone club meeting today, 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.480 or the drone club meeting is canceled, or if you'd 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.559 like to join the drone club, isn't she saying, what 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:18.920 the fuck is this drone club. 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.160 What is going on? We don't have a drone club. 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:24.760 Yeah, Mike gets heated. 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.960 Think about all those students that had text message conversations 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.360 through the years with him. Think about all the parents 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:34.040 who probably knew, Oh, Spencer Heron's so nice. He texts 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.640 my daughter. He's talking to my daughter when they go 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.480 to college. You think those text messages stayed completely appropriate. 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.400 When Mike mentioned this to me, I felt a pit 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:48.959 in my stomach. Felt too similar to my conversation with Julia. 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:51.680 Him and I used to play Words with Friends together, 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.400 which seemed super innocent. 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.840 But you would message on the sidebar things like you 0:12:57.840 --> 0:12:59.360 should come check out my new house. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.760 There wasn't anything that I evertook as him hitting on 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.560 me until further down the road when the allegations came out. 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.800 As an eighteen year old somebody in their forties saying, 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.199 come check out my new house. You're like, no, lame, 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.560 but I don't care about your house like I want 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:20.719 to go out. He was kind of just old and 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:22.560 I had no interest in that. 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.480 But looking back, if I had. 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.720 Said, sure, I would love to see your house, there's 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.760 no doubt in my mind that there was potentially an 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.960 ulterior motive. There ry else would he want somebody eighteen 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:37.960 years old to come check out his new house. 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.320 Her whole friend group from his class, well, all of 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.920 them were contacted by Spencer after they graduated. 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:47.560 All of those girls, every single one of them. 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.720 He would message them, you know, let's get coffee, let's 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:52.320 get drinks. 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.920 Her one friend, Nicole, had a boyfriend and he didn't 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:56.520 like it at all. 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:01.440 Nicole's boyfriend actually told her to stop texting him because 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.160 he was like, this is your high school teacher. Why 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.920 is he asking you to go get drinks? You're eighteen. 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:09.200 We were all like, oh, it's just Coach Aaron. 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.640 All that being said, Julia was completely blindsided. The day 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:15.640 he was arrested, I was on. 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.880 The treadmill at the gym and his mugshot popped up 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.920 on the TV in front of me, and I almost 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.760 fell off of the treadmill, stopped breathing. 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:26.360 I had to stop the treadmill, and I was just 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.120 like in shock. It was terrible. 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.320 And then my phone was like ding ding ding ding ding. 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.440 You know, everyone from the class of twenty ten, all 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:36.480 these group messages, Oh my god, did you see this 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:37.240 about Coach Aron? 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.520 And everyone was in just such disbelief, you know, he 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:41.800 would send these texts. 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.360 It just two people potentially trying to meet at None 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:48.120 of my friends ever acted on it, so no one 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:52.840 really knew. So we knew it got a little bit weird, 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.360 but we weren't sure what to believe. Maybe some girl 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.600 had just potentially taken it too far, you know, no one 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.200 wanted to believe that he really did that. 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.720 I'm really pessimistic about what would have happened if my 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:10.880 client reported this without the proof that she had, would people. 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:11.360 Have believed her? 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.920 Would they have said, she's just a slut, She's just 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:16.920 somebody that went out and sought out her teacher and 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.080 slept with him, which is what people said anyway on 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:20.480 Facebook boards and messaging. 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:21.680 I mean, she had to deal with. 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:26.120 That victim blaming. There was plenty of it. The defendants 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.600 the administrators in this case, argue that the victim's claims 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.160 were barred by the doctrine of comparative negligence. It's a 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.000 legal term that means assigned blame to two or more 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.360 parties based on the degree of negligence each contributed to 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:43.680 the incident. According to that logic, the student shared in 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.560 the blame when the teacher sexually assaulted her. 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.680 When you have a teacher that treats you like an adult, 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.120 makes you feel special, breaks a rule for you, and 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:58.880 expects you to keep that in confidence, you're trusting each 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:02.240 other with secrets. He has to take a risk, and 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:04.520 to me, that was a small risk that he was 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.920 taking by saying, I'll do something bad. If you're willing 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.960 to let me do something bad, that's step one. Now 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.560 I'm going to do something worse. Are you still okay 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:15.600 with that? Now I'm going to do something really bad? 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.680 Are you okay with that? At that point, it's a 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.840 recipe for an inappropriate relationship, especially when you add an 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:27.520 authority figure with practice, it's an unfair fight. And if 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.680 an authority figure, especially a teacher, keeps doing bad things, 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.960 why are they bad? Maybe the student doesn't think they're 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.640 bad because now they've been normalized, because now that's just 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.080 what teachers and students do. 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.680 After Spencer was charged criminally, I left a lot of 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.920 students and parents of kel High School wondering she was. 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.480 A developmental stage in her life where you are still 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:54.360 growing and learning, and she was supposed to be able 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:58.760 to trust him, and it's unfair for any of this 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:00.200 to fall back on her. 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:02.520 She was only a girl. 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:07.000 She was manipulated, and he took advantage of a young 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.320 girl who was vulnerable and believed in somebody that she 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:16.000 was supposed to believe in. My parents were so thankful that, 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.600 you know, it wasn't me, but they almost felt a 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.880 little scared for themselves. It's like, you know, we trusted 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:26.880 this man around our daughter. You know, that's scary. 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.000 And one is also scary is how little information was 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:32.720 given to the community itself. 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:36.920 As far as I know, there hasn't been any investigative 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:41.600 report accessible to the public. There hasn't been any disclosures made, 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:42.680 there hasn't been anything. 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.119 It's almost like this just didn't happen. 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:49.639 And that's really really scary, because this certainly isn't the 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:50.119 only time. 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.520 I was curious about why the victims sued three school 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:55.840 administrators instead of the school itself. 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:00.600 So in Georgia, you can't sue the school. A weird 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.560 rule we have. You can't sue the school board. I 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:05.840 have to sue on behalf of my client administrator. So 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.159 I have to sue people. I have to sue the 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.280 supervisors or the authority in those positions. And I have 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:15.439 to prove that those individual people did things wrong. We 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:17.199 don't want to sue them, We want to sue the 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:21.159 entity because it's the entity that's protecting them. On the 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.359 legal side, this isn't a dispute about what happened in 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:28.159 any sense. Everyone knows what happened, when it happened, and 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.040 why it happened. The issue is does the law allow 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:35.399 my client to recover to get justice in the civil 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:36.919 justice system, And so far the. 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:37.560 Answer has been no. 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:42.119 Basically, the lost in court, but they are appealing. 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.160 Lawyers say this all the time about their cases. I'm 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:49.200 proud to have represented so and so when lose draw 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:51.719 I don't care. I'm just glad that she knows that 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:53.919 someone will stick up for her, because that's part of 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:54.760 the problem here. 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.800 In Georgia. To hold a. 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:04.160 Public servant, which includes teachers, responsible for something in their 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.639 job capacity, you have to show that there was a rule, 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.280 a capital R rule, and a capital R rule is 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:15.000 a rule that requires no discretion, thought or judgment. The 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.760 public servant must follow it, and if they don't follow 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.200 the rule, then they can be held accountable. And we 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.359 were able to show that. We were able to show 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.600 that there was a rule in terms of how these 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.280 clubs must be authorized and how they must be monitored. 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.280 We're able to show that that rule existed and that 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:31.320 that rule was violated. 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:33.119 Here's the problem. 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.760 What the judge said was, even though the rule was violated, 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:43.320 it's not a negligent violation of the rule. I am 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.800 still trying to figure out exactly what that means. The 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.800 way I interpret that is that the rule was violated, 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:54.760 but it's not a big deal. So the administrators poorly performed, 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.000 they didn't do what they were supposed to do, but 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:00.199 it doesn't rise to a breach of their duties. I 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.800 interpret that to mean they're the worst employees in the school, 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:05.119 but they. 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.320 Still aren't going to get fired. 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.960 I guess you know you have that really poor performer 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:10.520 in your office who barely gets by. 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.919 The court seem to agree with the school district's argument 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:18.000 that because some of the sexual conduct occurred outside the school, 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:19.760 they couldn't be held accountable. 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.680 We acknowledge the fact that there were physical acts done 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:26.480 outside of school grounds, but every single instance where there 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:30.080 was physical sexual conduct at school I believe is a 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:40.040 separate instance of harm. 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:42.680 One thing I couldn't wrap my head around was how 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:44.160 to calculate the damage. 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:46.760