1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: This podcast discusses sexual assault. Please take care while listening. 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 2: He wanted us to think he was cool. He wanted 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 2: to be one of the kids. He wanted to fit in. 4 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 3: And it worked. 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 2: We were like, Oh, this guy is letting us get 6 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: away with pretending we're in this club and getting credit 7 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 2: for it. 8 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 3: That's awesome. Let's all do it. We're all president, let's go. 9 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: And we all thought it was super funny and it 10 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 2: was just kind of like. 11 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 3: A running joke. 12 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 2: So the idea of that carrying on for other reasons 13 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 2: is terrifying. 14 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, Episode four Damages. 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: In the summer of twenty twenty one, Jennifer texted our 16 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: show's production team there was news about Spencer's parole. Jennifer 17 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: was a car on location at work. 18 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 4: Well, you know, when I emailed Spence the other day, 19 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 4: he said that he was having his parole hearing today. 20 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 4: So I don't know. It's just really affected my whole 21 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 4: nervous system. Knowing that I may find out today that 22 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 4: he's getting out soon. 23 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 24 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 5: And I'm not really prepared. 25 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 6: For that yet. 26 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 7: What went through your mind? 27 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 4: I feel like he was just put in prison, and 28 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 4: now he's already getting out. It's hard because with him 29 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 4: in there, I felt safer. With him coming out, not 30 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 4: so much. 31 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Jack. 32 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 4: He got some time off of his sentence for good behavior. 33 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 4: He's been a teacher's aid and I'm sure he's been 34 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 4: leading Bible studies, and so he's already gotten several months 35 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 4: knocked off of his sentence and he was in front 36 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 4: of the parole board today. I don't know how it works, 37 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 4: but I mean, what if he gets out tomorrow? 38 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 8: You know, do you know if anybody gets to write 39 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 8: a letter to submit against the parole because I imagine 40 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 8: the victim of the sexual assault must be made. 41 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 4: Aware that he's up for a parole, right well, I 42 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 4: mean I think the victim has to be told when 43 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 4: he gets released. 44 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 3: How were you. 45 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: Approaching parole or was it just something that you get 46 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: to kind of kept at arm's length. 47 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 4: I kind of have been keeping it at arm's length. 48 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 4: I just don't want to think about it. I just 49 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 4: hate being this person on set. You know a couple 50 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 4: of people are like, you're kind of quiet today, Jennifer, 51 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 4: And you know, I don't want to be that mopey person. 52 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 5: I just I can't help it right now. 53 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 4: You know. 54 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 9: It's like when you get past heartache, you usually get 55 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 9: to move on, and I just feel like I'm going 56 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 9: to be starting. 57 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 6: Back over again for a little bit with him out 58 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 6: and knowing that he's out, getting. 59 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: Past the heartache and starting over. It's something that Jennifer 60 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: and the sexual assault victim had to do. Both described 61 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: shame as a big hurdle, even when you know you 62 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: aren't the guilty party. Jennifer would feel it when she 63 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: was out in public. 64 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 4: People are looking at me and kind of, oh, that's her. 65 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 3: I've gotten a lot of those looks before. 66 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 4: Oh your husband was the one, Oh you're her. 67 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: The sexual assault victim had her anonymity that didn't protect 68 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: her from shame. Just turning on the television after Spencer's 69 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: arrat revealed how some community members viewed her. 70 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 5: You don't always know what the truth is. 71 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 7: I mean, someone can say something about somebody just to 72 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 7: hurt their reputation, You don't know. 73 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 10: I would always want to know the history of this person, 74 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 10: make him complain as well. 75 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 5: You know, what kind of history do they have? Could 76 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 5: they provoke something like that? 77 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: Perhaps it's the reason the victim was fearful to come 78 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: forward sooner. After Spencer Heron was arrested, the victim never 79 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: heard from any school official. Not one person reached out 80 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: to ask how she was doing. Even with Spencer behind bars, 81 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: The victim had an uphill battle. Eventually, Jennifer would learn 82 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: how he abused his role as a teacher and mentor 83 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: and became a predator in the halls of Kill High School. 84 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 10: My name is Mike Rathie. I'm a lawyer in Atlanta 85 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 10: and I help people. 86 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: Mike's a civil attorney. The sexual assaul victim's parents reached 87 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,679 Speaker 1: out to him because they wanted to pursue a case 88 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: against Kill High School. 89 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 10: Most of our cases are people who are critically or 90 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 10: seriously injured, and a small percentage of our cases areeople who, 91 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 10: like this client, are victims of sexual assault in places 92 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 10: like hospitals, apartment complexes, hotels, and schools. 93 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: Mike and one of his colleagues went to meet the 94 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: victim and her parents at their home. 95 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 10: When we left my client's house, we started reading a 96 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 10: text message log that had been given to the police, 97 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 10: and there was a lot it was straight out of 98 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 10: to catch a predator reading this chat history as a 99 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 10: thirty something year old. I felt like I was Chris Hansen. 100 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 10: I can see the manipulation. I can see the terms 101 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 10: that are being used, the words that are being twisted, 102 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 10: and so on. This is one of those cases that 103 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 10: we left that house and said this is really fucked 104 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 10: up and we have to do something. I'm actually my 105 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 10: bloods boiling right now as I'm telling the story, because 106 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 10: I remember we left the house so angry, and I'm 107 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 10: still angry, maybe even angrier to this day. 108 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: As the sexual saw victim from Kel High School sought 109 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,799 Speaker 1: therapy and support for what happened to her, she began 110 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: to fully grasp how she had been manipulated abused. She 111 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 1: was angry, angry that Kell High School had never addressed 112 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: it in a meaningful way. Mike Graevey spent a lot 113 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: of time piecing together how it happened. It took him 114 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: down a path of investigating Kell High School's after school clubs. 115 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: The clubs were key to Spenser getting the victim alone 116 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: without raising suspicion. 117 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 10: The way it's supposed to work is that students are 118 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 10: supposed to get together and say we'd like to have 119 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 10: a club. We're really interested in this. They would then 120 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 10: go to a faculty member who probably has an interest 121 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 10: in the club or at least helped spur that interest, 122 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 10: and say, we really like you to be our leader 123 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 10: for this club. Would you please do that. There has 124 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 10: to be a certain number of signatures showing student involvement. 125 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 10: Parents have to agree that if this club was created, 126 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 10: then my. 127 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 5: Child would be allowed to participate in the club. 128 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 10: There's a budgeting component to it, and then there's administrator 129 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 10: approval and the faculty advisor has to submit a plan 130 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 10: of what is the goal the purpose of this plan, 131 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 10: how will we execute it? Then the administration is supposed 132 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 10: to formally approve or disapprove it. 133 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: Spencer had a history of sponsoring clubs, but some of 134 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: them were fake. 135 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: My name is Julia and co Charin was my high 136 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: school video productions teacher. I graduated from cal High School 137 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: in twenty ten. I had him for my junior year 138 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 2: and my senior year. 139 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 3: A lot of my. 140 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: Best friends had him freshman and sophomore too, so I 141 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: always knew of him and I wanted to be in 142 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: his class because it was a sought after program. It 143 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: was a cool class to be a part of. Even 144 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 2: when I didn't have him We would hang on his 145 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: classroom and in the edit rooms. 146 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 3: Everyone who had him loved him. 147 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 2: He was the fun class, the fun teacher, the fund program. 148 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: You got to be on the announcements, You got to 149 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 2: work on these cool projects and like kind of roam 150 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 2: the hallways and get some b roll while other kids are, 151 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 2: you know, sitting in their classes learning about history or math. 152 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 3: It didn't feel like a class. 153 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,679 Speaker 2: When I was a junior coach, heron started a fake 154 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 2: club and we all put it on our It wasn't 155 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 2: your resume, but we put you know, president of movie club. 156 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: It was called movie club, you know, on the chair 157 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: of movie club, which it was all a fake club. 158 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 2: I think we took like a picture together for it, 159 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: maybe in the yearbook. 160 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 10: I don't know. 161 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 3: I have to like it, but it wasn't really we 162 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 3: never met. It was like it was really fake, Like 163 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 3: it was pretend. 164 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 1: Why would a teacher make up a school club because 165 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: he wanted us to think he was cool. 166 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 3: He wanted to be one of the kids. He wanted 167 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 3: to fit in. 168 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 7: And it worked. 169 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 2: We were like, oh, this guy is letting us get 170 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: away with pretending we're in this club and getting credit 171 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: for it. 172 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 3: That's awesome, let's all do it. 173 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 2: We're all president, let's go, and we all thought it 174 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: was super. 175 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 3: Funny and it was just kind of like a running joke. 176 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 2: So the idea of that carrying on for other reasons 177 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:09,359 Speaker 2: is terrifying. 178 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen, Spencer's sponsor a drone club. It began 179 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: as a real club with real members and real meetings. 180 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: Students even had fundraisers, but they would sell T shirts 181 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: and videos so they could purchase a real drone. The 182 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: problem was the club never went through official channels. I 183 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: was never authorized. 184 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 10: If you have a club that doesn't go through this process, 185 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 10: then you don't have that oversight and you don't have 186 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 10: any of that guidance. You don't have the faculty member 187 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 10: answering or reporting to their administration. Instead, you have the 188 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 10: faculty member being able to do whatever it is that 189 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 10: he wants whenever he wants to, and that's what happened here. 190 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: Eventually, the drone club died out and stopped having meetings, 191 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: but Spencer continued to see one member of the club. 192 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 10: It continued to be a time and a place in 193 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 10: a school where a teacher had full access to some 194 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 10: place to take a student without the student having to 195 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 10: leave school grounds because typically when you leave school grounds, 196 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 10: you got to tell your parents where you're going. So 197 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 10: this teacher has a perfect opportunity to lure a student 198 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 10: into a place where they won't be caught and where 199 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 10: they can do whatever he wants to do. It wasn't 200 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 10: what she wanted to do, it was what he wanted to. 201 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: Do, and what he wanted to do was take advantage 202 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: of Mike's client. 203 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 10: If you remember when you were a kid, every once 204 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 10: in a while, an administrat would come in your classroom 205 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 10: and watch your teacher. That's the administration taking active role 206 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 10: to make sure that the teachers are doing their jobs, 207 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 10: that they're effectively conveying their message to students, that they're 208 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 10: disciplining students properly, that everything that's going on in the 209 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 10: classroom is the way it should. If you have a 210 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 10: club that doesn't go through this process, then you don't 211 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 10: have that oversight and you don't have any of that guidance. 212 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 10: You don't have the faculty member answering or reporting to 213 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 10: their administration. 214 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: Hell High School's administrators deny all knowledge of the drone club. 215 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: There was nothing to oversee because it didn't officially exist 216 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: as a school club. 217 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 10: He's flying a drone over the school at football games 218 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 10: to get drone shots for the drone club, which isn't 219 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 10: supposed to exist. So the skeptic in me says, the 220 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 10: school did know there was a club, they just didn't 221 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 10: give a crap. They knew there was a club, they 222 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 10: actively participated in the club, they benefited from the club, 223 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 10: they allowed the club, but they just didn't feel or 224 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 10: didn't care enough to go through the process of properly 225 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 10: authenticating it and then properly monitoring. 226 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 5: It and making sure that students weren't in danger. 227 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 1: Was it because Spencer Heron was a department head or 228 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: trusted faculty member. No one knows. Mike points out that 229 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: there's an administrator whose job it is to supervise after 230 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: school clubs, the. 231 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 5: Vice principal, Student Stoddard. 232 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 10: It's her job to authenticate clubs and to monitor them. 233 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 10: And when she's sitting in her office listening to the 234 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 10: PA system and it says there's a drone club meeting today, 235 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 10: or the drone club meeting is canceled, or if you'd 236 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 10: like to join the drone club, isn't she saying, what 237 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 10: the fuck is this drone club. 238 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 5: What is going on? We don't have a drone club. 239 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, Mike gets heated. 240 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 10: Think about all those students that had text message conversations 241 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 10: through the years with him. Think about all the parents 242 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 10: who probably knew, Oh, Spencer Heron's so nice. He texts 243 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 10: my daughter. He's talking to my daughter when they go 244 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 10: to college. You think those text messages stayed completely appropriate. 245 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: When Mike mentioned this to me, I felt a pit 246 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: in my stomach. Felt too similar to my conversation with Julia. 247 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 2: Him and I used to play Words with Friends together, 248 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: which seemed super innocent. 249 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 3: But you would message on the sidebar things like you 250 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 3: should come check out my new house. 251 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 2: There wasn't anything that I evertook as him hitting on 252 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 2: me until further down the road when the allegations came out. 253 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 2: As an eighteen year old somebody in their forties saying, 254 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,199 Speaker 2: come check out my new house. You're like, no, lame, 255 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 2: but I don't care about your house like I want 256 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,719 Speaker 2: to go out. He was kind of just old and 257 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 2: I had no interest in that. 258 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 3: But looking back, if I had. 259 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 2: Said, sure, I would love to see your house, there's 260 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 2: no doubt in my mind that there was potentially an 261 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 2: ulterior motive. There ry else would he want somebody eighteen 262 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 2: years old to come check out his new house. 263 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: Her whole friend group from his class, well, all of 264 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: them were contacted by Spencer after they graduated. 265 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 3: All of those girls, every single one of them. 266 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: He would message them, you know, let's get coffee, let's 267 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: get drinks. 268 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: Her one friend, Nicole, had a boyfriend and he didn't 269 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: like it at all. 270 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 2: Nicole's boyfriend actually told her to stop texting him because 271 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 2: he was like, this is your high school teacher. Why 272 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: is he asking you to go get drinks? You're eighteen. 273 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 2: We were all like, oh, it's just Coach Aaron. 274 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: All that being said, Julia was completely blindsided. The day 275 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: he was arrested, I was on. 276 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 2: The treadmill at the gym and his mugshot popped up 277 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: on the TV in front of me, and I almost 278 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 2: fell off of the treadmill, stopped breathing. 279 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 3: I had to stop the treadmill, and I was just 280 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 3: like in shock. It was terrible. 281 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: And then my phone was like ding ding ding ding ding. 282 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 2: You know, everyone from the class of twenty ten, all 283 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 2: these group messages, Oh my god, did you see this 284 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 2: about Coach Aron? 285 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 3: And everyone was in just such disbelief, you know, he 286 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 3: would send these texts. 287 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: It just two people potentially trying to meet at None 288 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 2: of my friends ever acted on it, so no one 289 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 2: really knew. So we knew it got a little bit weird, 290 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 2: but we weren't sure what to believe. Maybe some girl 291 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 2: had just potentially taken it too far, you know, no one 292 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: wanted to believe that he really did that. 293 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 10: I'm really pessimistic about what would have happened if my 294 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 10: client reported this without the proof that she had, would people. 295 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 5: Have believed her? 296 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 10: Would they have said, she's just a slut, She's just 297 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 10: somebody that went out and sought out her teacher and 298 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 10: slept with him, which is what people said anyway on 299 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 10: Facebook boards and messaging. 300 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 5: I mean, she had to deal with. 301 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: That victim blaming. There was plenty of it. The defendants 302 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: the administrators in this case, argue that the victim's claims 303 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: were barred by the doctrine of comparative negligence. It's a 304 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: legal term that means assigned blame to two or more 305 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: parties based on the degree of negligence each contributed to 306 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: the incident. According to that logic, the student shared in 307 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: the blame when the teacher sexually assaulted her. 308 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 10: When you have a teacher that treats you like an adult, 309 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 10: makes you feel special, breaks a rule for you, and 310 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 10: expects you to keep that in confidence, you're trusting each 311 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 10: other with secrets. He has to take a risk, and 312 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 10: to me, that was a small risk that he was 313 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 10: taking by saying, I'll do something bad. If you're willing 314 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 10: to let me do something bad, that's step one. Now 315 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 10: I'm going to do something worse. Are you still okay 316 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 10: with that? Now I'm going to do something really bad? 317 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 10: Are you okay with that? At that point, it's a 318 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 10: recipe for an inappropriate relationship, especially when you add an 319 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 10: authority figure with practice, it's an unfair fight. And if 320 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 10: an authority figure, especially a teacher, keeps doing bad things, 321 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 10: why are they bad? Maybe the student doesn't think they're 322 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 10: bad because now they've been normalized, because now that's just 323 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 10: what teachers and students do. 324 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: After Spencer was charged criminally, I left a lot of 325 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: students and parents of kel High School wondering she was. 326 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 2: A developmental stage in her life where you are still 327 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 2: growing and learning, and she was supposed to be able 328 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: to trust him, and it's unfair for any of this 329 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 2: to fall back on her. 330 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 3: She was only a girl. 331 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: She was manipulated, and he took advantage of a young 332 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 2: girl who was vulnerable and believed in somebody that she 333 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 2: was supposed to believe in. My parents were so thankful that, 334 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't me, but they almost felt a 335 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 2: little scared for themselves. It's like, you know, we trusted 336 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 2: this man around our daughter. You know, that's scary. 337 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: And one is also scary is how little information was 338 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: given to the community itself. 339 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 10: As far as I know, there hasn't been any investigative 340 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 10: report accessible to the public. There hasn't been any disclosures made, 341 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 10: there hasn't been anything. 342 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 5: It's almost like this just didn't happen. 343 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 10: And that's really really scary, because this certainly isn't the 344 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 10: only time. 345 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: I was curious about why the victims sued three school 346 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: administrators instead of the school itself. 347 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 10: So in Georgia, you can't sue the school. A weird 348 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 10: rule we have. You can't sue the school board. I 349 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 10: have to sue on behalf of my client administrator. So 350 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 10: I have to sue people. I have to sue the 351 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 10: supervisors or the authority in those positions. And I have 352 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 10: to prove that those individual people did things wrong. We 353 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 10: don't want to sue them, We want to sue the 354 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 10: entity because it's the entity that's protecting them. On the 355 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 10: legal side, this isn't a dispute about what happened in 356 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 10: any sense. Everyone knows what happened, when it happened, and 357 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 10: why it happened. The issue is does the law allow 358 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 10: my client to recover to get justice in the civil 359 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 10: justice system, And so far the. 360 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 5: Answer has been no. 361 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: Basically, the lost in court, but they are appealing. 362 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 10: Lawyers say this all the time about their cases. I'm 363 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 10: proud to have represented so and so when lose draw 364 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 10: I don't care. I'm just glad that she knows that 365 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 10: someone will stick up for her, because that's part of 366 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 10: the problem here. 367 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 5: In Georgia. To hold a. 368 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 10: Public servant, which includes teachers, responsible for something in their 369 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 10: job capacity, you have to show that there was a rule, 370 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 10: a capital R rule, and a capital R rule is 371 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 10: a rule that requires no discretion, thought or judgment. The 372 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 10: public servant must follow it, and if they don't follow 373 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 10: the rule, then they can be held accountable. And we 374 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 10: were able to show that. We were able to show 375 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 10: that there was a rule in terms of how these 376 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 10: clubs must be authorized and how they must be monitored. 377 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 10: We're able to show that that rule existed and that 378 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 10: that rule was violated. 379 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 5: Here's the problem. 380 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 10: What the judge said was, even though the rule was violated, 381 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 10: it's not a negligent violation of the rule. I am 382 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 10: still trying to figure out exactly what that means. The 383 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 10: way I interpret that is that the rule was violated, 384 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 10: but it's not a big deal. So the administrators poorly performed, 385 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 10: they didn't do what they were supposed to do, but 386 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 10: it doesn't rise to a breach of their duties. I 387 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 10: interpret that to mean they're the worst employees in the school, 388 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 10: but they. 389 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 5: Still aren't going to get fired. 390 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 10: I guess you know you have that really poor performer 391 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 10: in your office who barely gets by. 392 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: The court seem to agree with the school district's argument 393 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: that because some of the sexual conduct occurred outside the school, 394 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: they couldn't be held accountable. 395 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 10: We acknowledge the fact that there were physical acts done 396 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 10: outside of school grounds, but every single instance where there 397 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 10: was physical sexual conduct at school I believe is a 398 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 10: separate instance of harm. 399 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: One thing I couldn't wrap my head around was how 400 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: to calculate the damage. 401 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 10: The law in Georgia is that it's up to the 402 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 10: impartial conscience of the jury. Basically, twelve people are going 403 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 10: to sit around and. 404 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 5: Figure it out. 405 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 10: What do I think that the pain and suffering, the 406 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 10: physical violation, the embarrassment for my client who still lives 407 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 10: in the community. You know, those damages don't just stop. 408 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 10: That's got to be devastating. Her feelings weren't manipulated, and 409 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 10: her sense of reality and worth has drastically, drastically deteriorated. 410 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 10: And I don't know how anyone could possibly blame her. 411 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 10: And I'll ask a jury to think about the ways 412 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 10: that relationship affects a person and that self worth affects 413 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 10: someone and put a value on that. 414 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: But Mike will only be able to ask the jury 415 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: if the court grants their appeal. And, as it turns out, 416 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: in an interesting twist, the defendants also appealed on the 417 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: one point Mike's client prevailed. 418 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 10: They are fighting that violating a rule written in their own. 419 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 5: Policy and procedures and manuals. They're saying, we don't always 420 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 5: have to follow those rules. 421 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 10: Imagine if you're a parent in cop County and you 422 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 10: have the administration saying we have these rules, but we're 423 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,479 Speaker 10: going to go to the Supreme Court of Georgia and 424 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 10: say we don't really have to follow them. 425 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: It can't be easy for parents. Just a few weeks before, 426 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: we spoke with Mike Gravy, a teacher at another Cobb 427 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: County high school, Osborne High School, was arrested for having 428 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: sexual intercourse with a student in his office. That teacher 429 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: is in jail. I wanted us to get together because 430 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: I was just really curious, what were your thoughts after 431 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: hearing all of that. 432 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 4: My biggest thing is if we don't educate people, students, teachers, administrators, 433 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 4: if we don't educate them on what signs to look for, 434 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 4: then it's going to keep happening over and over and over. 435 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:54,239 Speaker 4: There is so much trust put into teachers. Instead of 436 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 4: sweeping it under the rug and acting like it didn't 437 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 4: happen and just moving on, we need to somehow bring 438 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 4: in that education into the schools and make people more 439 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 4: aware of what happens and how it happens. 440 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: I think that a lot of people have preconceived notions 441 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: about relationships between high school students and their teachers, and 442 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: they make assumptions. People really don't think about what it's 443 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: actually like. Your ex husband, Spencer, he's obviously well versed 444 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: in sex and relationships, and this girl, she had no 445 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: idea what she was doing. 446 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think back to when I was in high school. 447 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 4: You're at school, you're with someone that everybody is looking 448 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 4: up to and admiring, and then all of a sudden, 449 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 4: that person starts making you feel really good. 450 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, she is in the halls of high school wanting 451 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: to scream at the top of her alongs what she's experiencing. 452 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 7: She is so. 453 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: Alone in this because she can tell nobody. 454 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 4: It's so sad that this happens. 455 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: We all did research leading up to this interview, and 456 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: there was one study published by the Department of Education 457 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: that I think all of us were impacted by and 458 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: I kind of want to read it here. It says 459 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: that ten percent of school students will be victims of 460 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: some form of teacher sexual misconduct that can range from 461 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: sexual assault to inappropriate comments, exposure to pornography. Ten percent. 462 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: J that's millions of kids. It's insane. 463 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 4: I don't think you can just hold one person responsible. 464 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 4: I think it's got to be a big effort. 465 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: What did you think of the lawyer, Mike Rafie. 466 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 4: I understand that when it comes to lawsuits and all 467 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 4: of that, it's very tough. I appreciate what he's doing 468 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 4: because what happened here is so much bigger than people realize. 469 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: I was pretty taken it back that one of the 470 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: school administrator's offenses was comparative negligence, meaning that this student 471 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: was partially responsible. 472 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 4: For the administration. To use that term. Think about the 473 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 4: victim hearing that and how that feels that she's supposed 474 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 4: to take some of that responsibility on. That's not fair 475 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 4: and I think that sends an awful message out to 476 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 4: the community, to the victim, to everybody else. How dare 477 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 4: they try to victim blame and victim blame a child. 478 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: Earlier in this episode of Betrayal, we heard about the 479 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: possibility of Spencer being released on parole. Jennifer wrote to 480 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: Spencer and asked him to let her know what happened 481 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: at the parole hearing. A few weeks later, he emailed, I. 482 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 11: Have some disappointing news that I wanted to share with you. 483 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 11: I recently received a letter from the parole board stating 484 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 11: that my tentative parole month date has been rescinded. The 485 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 11: decision was made quote due to the welfare of society. 486 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,479 Speaker 11: This was very disturbing and upsetting. 487 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 5: To say the least. 488 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 11: The kids are doing okay with the news. Thank god 489 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 11: they are so strong. The parole Board does not have 490 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 11: to tell anyone anything, and they certainly don't have to 491 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 11: tell anyone why an inmate was denied. 492 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 5: Or delayed parole. 493 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: In the letter, he expressed frustration he had served sixty 494 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: five percent of his time and that's what his lawyer, 495 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: the judge and prosecutor agreed on, but he wasn't getting 496 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: out and know the reason. Maybe the truth was too 497 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: hard for him to consider. Turns out, the sexual assaul 498 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: victim wrote a letter to the prole board and hand 499 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: delivered it for self. She urged the board not to 500 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: release Spencer, saying that it wouldn't be good for the 501 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: welfare of society. On the next episode of Betrayal, a 502 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: woman explains to Jennifer how one text from Spencer heron 503 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: led to a torrid multi year affair. 504 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 7: I don't even remember what the initial start of the 505 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 7: conversation was, but then a comment was made about well 506 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 7: you're beautiful something to that extent, and that's kind of 507 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 7: where it started. Here's an attractive guy telling me I'm 508 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 7: gritty or feeling like, oh my god, what's happening. But 509 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 7: then at the same time, I didn't do anything to stop. 510 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: It, and the shocking behavior that she shares with Jennifer. 511 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 7: There was a very dominating side to him. I remember 512 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 7: a couple of times where you know, he would kind 513 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 7: of put his hands around my throat and push down. 514 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: If you'd like to reach out to the Betrayal team, 515 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: email us at Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. That's 516 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. Betrayal is a production 517 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in 518 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show was executive produced by 519 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me 520 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Kerry Hartman, also produced 521 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: by Ben Fetterman. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and 522 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: Jessica Crinchick. Special thanks to voice actor Todd Gans. Sound 523 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: editing and mixing done by Mount Taveccio. Betrayal's theme was 524 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: composed by Oliver Baines Music library provided by my Music. 525 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, 526 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.