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Speaker 1: Mm from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in

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Speaker 1: two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers

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Speaker 1: to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you

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Speaker 1: were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands

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Speaker 1: of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the

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Speaker 1: backs of diamond eyed school children who growing into hymnals

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Speaker 1: recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments

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Speaker 1: out of the windows of restored Alchemedo chariots. To keep

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Speaker 1: the warmth of their blood, be wise, be smart, being black,

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Speaker 1: Opal Brown courts bloodstone and prayer, be every form of

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Speaker 1: Jim se King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife,

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Speaker 1: wife told her daughter, and daughter told the as this is.

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Speaker 1: And the ancestors told me that you would come to

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Speaker 1: give wisdom. Thousands. They said you would come, Dropping Dropping Jim.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Dropping Gems podcast. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being here, Thank you for joining me, Thank

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Speaker 1: you for all the ratings and reviews and d m

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Speaker 1: s and all of the things. I'm your host, Debbie Brown.

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Speaker 1: This episode I have been looking forward to so much,

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Speaker 1: and I've been looking forward to specifically having a conversation

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Speaker 1: like this for so long. Today on the show, in

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Speaker 1: just a few moments, I will bring on our special guest,

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Speaker 1: the one and only actor, director humanitarian Nate Parker. And

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Speaker 1: there's an incredible film that is out and available now

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Speaker 1: called American Skin. I know a lot of you listening

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Speaker 1: have already seen this film. It's really taken the Internet

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Speaker 1: by storm. There are so many expansive conversations happening everywhere

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Speaker 1: within our own homes, at the barbershops, within our communities

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Speaker 1: around this film. And I had I first had the chance,

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Speaker 1: the opportunity, the gift of seeing this film about a

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Speaker 1: year ago. I screened it in Hollywood, and I just

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Speaker 1: remember so distinctly leaving that screening and just sitting in

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Speaker 1: the car and needing to breathe and needing to really

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Speaker 1: calm myself. It brought up so much, especially as a mother,

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Speaker 1: especially as a boy mom, and it really for me

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Speaker 1: further intensified the internal dialogue that I have with myself

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Speaker 1: about black mail, pain and all of the barriers that

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Speaker 1: black men in the world, men of color in the world,

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Speaker 1: um have in front of their own access to themselves

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Speaker 1: and their own ability to deeply experience their own love

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Speaker 1: and and something we speak to quite a bit on

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Speaker 1: this show. You know, we really get in the thick

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Speaker 1: of trauma, we get in the thick of our ability

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Speaker 1: to self heal and self love and self accept and

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Speaker 1: you know, so often I I'm in thought with myself

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Speaker 1: around the dynamic of our family structures and how to

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Speaker 1: for me, how to really create generational change and generational

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Speaker 1: impact through relaying the foundation of the way that we

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Speaker 1: feel about ourselves and starting that within our homes. And

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Speaker 1: it's something that I really intentionally do with my son,

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Speaker 1: and it's something that is probably the driving force of

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Speaker 1: my life. My utmost priority in my household is that

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Speaker 1: my son knows his own love. He will feel his

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Speaker 1: mother's love. Yes, I will engulf that baby all day,

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Speaker 1: but him feeling his own love and him knowing his

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Speaker 1: own worth of existence before gets into the world is

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Speaker 1: so important to me. So when I saw this breathtaking

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Speaker 1: film that really speaks to the complex layers of a

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Speaker 1: black man's ability or lack thereof, to a moat to feel,

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Speaker 1: to grieve, to be treated with reverence and respect, it

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Speaker 1: floored me. So without further ado, I'm really excited to

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Speaker 1: bring forward the special guest of Today, So welcoming to

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Speaker 1: the show, the incomparable Nate Parker. Nate Parker is a director, actor, screenwriter, producer, humanitarian.

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Speaker 1: He's focused much of his life and career on addressing

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Speaker 1: social injustice and creating content that addresses disparities from marginalized

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Speaker 1: communities around the world. He's known for his roles in

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Speaker 1: the Denzel Washington directed film The Great Debaters, The Spike

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Speaker 1: Lee Joint, Red Hook, Summer Beyond the Lights, and his

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Speaker 1: role as slave in Erectionist Leader not Turner in Birth

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Speaker 1: of a Nation, which he also directed. I had the

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Speaker 1: great pleasure of being able to become friends with Nate

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Speaker 1: over the last few years. And I don't even know

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Speaker 1: if you know this story, Nate, but I will never

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Speaker 1: forget the first time I saw the movie poster for

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Speaker 1: Birth of a Nation. It literally stopped me in my tracks,

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Speaker 1: like I felt it through my soul. And I remember

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Speaker 1: I was sitting I remember exactly where I was. I

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Speaker 1: was sitting in my living room. I was watching TV,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, the movie poster appeared on

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Speaker 1: screen and there was a commercial and I was like,

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Speaker 1: what the fun huh? And I was just blown away,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I have to see this film.

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Speaker 1: I have to see this film. And so I feel

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Speaker 1: like I was calling the film to me um and

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Speaker 1: it was really funny because I was, you know, we

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Speaker 1: have some mutual friends in the industry, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: you saw an advance screening. I need to see this.

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Speaker 1: I need an advance screening. And I was traveling. I

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Speaker 1: was at this symposium and I got a call. At

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Speaker 1: the time the radio station that I was at, I

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Speaker 1: was in l A, but I was working in Houston.

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Speaker 1: I got a phone call and they said, hey, we

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Speaker 1: want to send you to do the press junket to

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Speaker 1: cover Birth of a Nation and to go to Canada.

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Speaker 1: But you need to leave tonight. And I was in

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Speaker 1: the middle of this whole other thing. I was it

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Speaker 1: was like an eleven hour flight. It was insane, but

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Speaker 1: I just said, yep, I'm going, Yes, yep. So I

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Speaker 1: went to cold Toronto with my l A clothes. I

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Speaker 1: get there, I see the screener at night and I

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Speaker 1: just started bawling. I just started crying. And I remember

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Speaker 1: I walked outside and it was raining and I called

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Speaker 1: our friend Punch, and he and I stayed on the

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Speaker 1: phone for two hours and I walked in the rain

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Speaker 1: and we were just talking about the film and talking

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Speaker 1: about you and talking about the world. And then I

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Speaker 1: had the amazing opportunity um to connect with you and

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Speaker 1: meet you and you know, learn from you and see

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Speaker 1: your genius. So I'm so excited to have you on

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Speaker 1: this show. Oh my goodness, are you kidding? I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: miss this for anything. And I didn't know you left

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Speaker 1: that night before I know. We we met in Toronto

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Speaker 1: and Punch reached out to me, Who's Who's such a

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Speaker 1: great brother, uh, and he had such great things to

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Speaker 1: say about you and just connecting with you that day.

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Speaker 1: I remember it was like a rooftop um like restaurant

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Speaker 1: or something, and we talked for a long time. And

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Speaker 1: and it's crazy because you know, when you mentioned the

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Speaker 1: poster and you mentioned the film, you know, art that

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Speaker 1: is incendi area seems to get people's attention a lot

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Speaker 1: quicker and thin that are safe, So it felt like

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Speaker 1: the I'm so glad the poster was what it was

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Speaker 1: because it feels like the nature of it may have

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Speaker 1: even been responsible and been responsible for our connection. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And I think you know it would what really struck

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Speaker 1: me about that film, At least for me and my purview.

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Speaker 1: It was the first time I had seen something um

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Speaker 1: not just so bold, but it was like a reclaiming

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Speaker 1: of power. It was changing the dynamic of how we

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Speaker 1: viewed ourselves and how we told these stories. You know,

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Speaker 1: all all the films that were winning Oscars up until then,

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Speaker 1: they were the slave films. They were the films that

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Speaker 1: didn't have you know, much to them, or it was

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Speaker 1: all about liberation coming from an outside source. You know.

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Speaker 1: It was the first time that it really felt like

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Speaker 1: there was an unlocking of this inner well, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I credit this film as being such a catalyst

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Speaker 1: in in a beautiful subtle way for some of the

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Speaker 1: conversations and some of the uprisings that happened afterwards. It really,

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Speaker 1: I feel, with such a powerful reprogramming. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: saying that. You know, when I was doing my research

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Speaker 1: around Nat Turner, what I found in my research is

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Speaker 1: that this particular insurrection was responsible in many ways for

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Speaker 1: the Civil War. You know. There there there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of conversation around what to do with the slave problem.

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Speaker 1: You know, there was the issue of taxes, there was

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Speaker 1: the issue of property. There was the issue of preserving

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Speaker 1: the union. Um, but there was the issue of insurrection

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Speaker 1: in that Turner wasn't the only insurrectionists. There were plenty

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Speaker 1: of people who were volting. There were there were women

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Speaker 1: who were volting, were revolting by poisoning food. Uh, there

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Speaker 1: were There's so many, so much resistance that was happening

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Speaker 1: that is undocumented that you have to dig for because

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Speaker 1: it speaks to the stripping of humanity in ways that

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Speaker 1: it has never been done in the history of the world.

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Speaker 1: You know, people like to compare slavery to other forms

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Speaker 1: and different you know, time periods, of different generations and

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Speaker 1: different empires, but never has there been slavery like what

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Speaker 1: is what has taken place in the United States of America.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of that has perpetuated the brokenness,

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Speaker 1: uh that we that we are struggling through and the

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Speaker 1: trauma because we won't admit that we won't. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you gotta think think a bit like this. They literally

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Speaker 1: changed the laws in this country. So if someone was

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Speaker 1: born from uh, you know, a relationship of of not

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Speaker 1: we want to call it a relationship. If a slave

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Speaker 1: owner raped one of his his property, they changed it

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Speaker 1: so she would that that that child would take on

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Speaker 1: the lineage of the mother and not the father. It's

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Speaker 1: never been done in history. Why did they do that

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Speaker 1: so they can expand their property? Why because they stopped

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Speaker 1: the mid Atlantic try a slave trade. So these are

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Speaker 1: things that again without honest confrontation, without truth, they can't

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Speaker 1: be any healing. You know, we we want to we

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Speaker 1: talk about, you know, addressing trauma, but we really don't

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Speaker 1: want to talk about all of the infrastructure, the things

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Speaker 1: that have brought us to this place. And and so

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Speaker 1: with the film specifically, and a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: I do, I try to, you know, lay bare the

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Speaker 1: truth behind who we are and what we have been

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Speaker 1: as a nation. Yeah wow, Yeah, we're going to get

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Speaker 1: into the film in just a moment, but somewhere really

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Speaker 1: like to start. Is obviously very devastating year, But a

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Speaker 1: few things happened that I find to be the hidden

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Speaker 1: treasure of it all, which is really fully and more

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Speaker 1: deeply shedding light on specifically black mail pain um. And

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Speaker 1: you know, really the beginning of that for me was

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Speaker 1: when Kobe passed. Really, um, I think that energy lent

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Speaker 1: itself to an opening that hadn't happened yet, Right, like

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Speaker 1: we know the mail connection to sports, we know, um,

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Speaker 1: some of the ways that that has been such a

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Speaker 1: community builder for black men and also a space of

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Speaker 1: a mint celebration and and survival yeah yeah, and generational

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Speaker 1: growth and expansion. And you know, it's just such a

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Speaker 1: big piece of the male puzzle and the male psyche.

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Speaker 1: And so for that to happen in a hero to

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Speaker 1: be fallen in such a way, like an action figure,

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Speaker 1: really to be fallen in such a way, and it

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Speaker 1: a child involved in such a blow. So I say,

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Speaker 1: let to say, you know, it really felt like that

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Speaker 1: was um as tragic as it was almost a blessing

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Speaker 1: because I think it ripened in opening for the hearts

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Speaker 1: of men for what we were about to walk into,

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Speaker 1: which is the pandemic that changed everything, and also the

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Speaker 1: social injustice that changed really the scope of the conversations

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Speaker 1: we were having and the things that we're doing. George

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Speaker 1: Floyd being killed the way that he was, conversations around

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Speaker 1: black vulnerability started to happen. And you know, when you

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Speaker 1: think of yourself as a black man who was able

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Speaker 1: to rise in such an exquisite way and then able

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Speaker 1: to come in and be of service to the world,

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Speaker 1: with your creative genius and your creative fire. How did

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Speaker 1: you begin to cultivate that in yourself? Where did that

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Speaker 1: healing begin? Where did you come into a place of

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Speaker 1: being able to stand in your full being and tell

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Speaker 1: these stories? I think it's it's undoubtedly faith. Um. I

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Speaker 1: think that there there has to be acknowledgement of the

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Speaker 1: Creator and anything that we think that we're called to do.

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Speaker 1: Uh for me specifically anyway, um, because you know, just

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Speaker 1: as a human being, Um, the brokenness that you're inherit,

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Speaker 1: you know, the generational trauma that you're inherit. There's so

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Speaker 1: many things, and being a black man, being born in

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Speaker 1: this country, Uh, just waking up every day you're face,

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Speaker 1: You're carrying baggage. Just being born, you're carrying baggage. I

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Speaker 1: can't think of a time where I didn't know that

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Speaker 1: I was an underdog, just as a person with brown skin,

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Speaker 1: you know. And I think that when you're when you're

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Speaker 1: operating under that pretext, if you don't have mind, body

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Speaker 1: and spirit in order, uh, you may find yourself in

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Speaker 1: a situation of a perpetual depression. You know, because you'll

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Speaker 1: see you know, because you know, faith is believing in

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Speaker 1: the thing that is not seen right, the idea that yes,

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Speaker 1: I was born for a reason, I was created for

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Speaker 1: a reason. Yes that I believe there's a destiny before

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Speaker 1: in my life. Yes I believe that there were gifts

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Speaker 1: that have been given to me. Yes I believe by

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Speaker 1: stand on the shoulders of giants that have come before me. Now,

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Speaker 1: how will I pull out of me all the things

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Speaker 1: that can institutionalize that support and and and laser focus

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Speaker 1: it on something that can create a legacy for myself.

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Speaker 1: So I take that back to to faith is just

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Speaker 1: knowing that, like the Lord has put me in a

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Speaker 1: position one to do something that will will change the

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Speaker 1: order for my children, uh and my children's children. Um.

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Speaker 1: And he's giving me you know, and in some ways

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Speaker 1: a playbook, you know what I mean. I think that

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Speaker 1: the whole conversation around faith has become this weird and awkward,

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Speaker 1: um monetized, politicized thing. But we've often I feel like

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Speaker 1: we've forgotten the vertical relationship that we're supposed to have

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Speaker 1: with the Creator, you know what I mean? And as

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Speaker 1: as a Christian man, it's like, Okay, well, if I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna kind of step into this space, and what does

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Speaker 1: that mean for me, you know, what are my action

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Speaker 1: is going to be? How am I going to live

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Speaker 1: for other people? How am I gonna serve? I try

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Speaker 1: not to look at how I might have, you know,

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Speaker 1: pulled myself up and answer the call. But really, how

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Speaker 1: can I be a servant to those who I know

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Speaker 1: are being monologue marginalized? Why I know are constantly being

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Speaker 1: um uh pushed to the to the outside of society,

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Speaker 1: or or being told that their brokenness is their own fault,

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Speaker 1: or being told that there's their symptoms are not indicative

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Speaker 1: of a bigger sickness, but it's just indicative of their failures. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I think the more I lean into faith and service,

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Speaker 1: the more capable I am to stand up to adversity

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Speaker 1: and to push through uh anything that may feel like

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Speaker 1: an obstacle to get to what I think might be

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Speaker 1: you know, the destiny that is that has been put

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Speaker 1: before me. Something we really speak to a lot on

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Speaker 1: this show. UM that's a driving force in my life

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Speaker 1: is really declone de colonializing wellness, um, but also being

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Speaker 1: really clear about the colonial station that has taken place

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Speaker 1: within how we feel about ourselves, how we even seek help, right,

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Speaker 1: like the colonialization of therapy of mental health. Like as

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Speaker 1: these mental health conversations are being unpacked and we're really

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Speaker 1: trying to empower the bipop community to seek out these services.

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Speaker 1: It's so important because the piece of the piece of

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Speaker 1: the puzzle that is not spoken to in these haling

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Speaker 1: spaces is the complex post traumatic stress. So that is

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Speaker 1: everything else that lays as a burden on top of you,

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Speaker 1: aside from the spiritual curriculum you entered Earth for as

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Speaker 1: you are in your journey, as you are seeking God,

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Speaker 1: as you are seeking self. And you know what what

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Speaker 1: does that look like for you? You know, how do

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Speaker 1: you fill your cup? How do you refuel as a

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Speaker 1: black man in this world, specifically in these times, as

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Speaker 1: a father and as someone that knows they are called

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Speaker 1: to show up in service? Well, I think, you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of it has to do with you know, prayer,

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Speaker 1: A lot has to do with UM. So into the

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Speaker 1: things that I think are bigger than me. You know,

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Speaker 1: my children have five daughters, you know UM. And you

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Speaker 1: know I have my nephew that I adopted. And every

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Speaker 1: day I'm asking myself, you know, when I'm laying when

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Speaker 1: I'm you know, on my death bed, and I'm surrounded

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Speaker 1: by all the people that I've been connected to, What

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Speaker 1: will what will they think about me in my contribution?

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Speaker 1: You know because at that at that moment, all the fear,

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Speaker 1: all the anxiety, all the things that or obstacles when

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Speaker 1: when when you were living through the moment won't matter.

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Speaker 1: The only thing will matter if you have your receipts.

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Speaker 1: You know. I always found it interesting when people, you know,

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Speaker 1: we talked about which was a pivotal year for this country,

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Speaker 1: so many things happened, and talking to people who were

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Speaker 1: during that time and asking them what were you doing

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Speaker 1: in that time? It's funny because there's only one answer, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: like I was serving, I was serving the people. I

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Speaker 1: was in the streets, I was making noise and I

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Speaker 1: was raising hell. But the people that were doing nothing,

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Speaker 1: that is something they can't undo. So I think that

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Speaker 1: there's a tremendous responsibility that I think pushes me to

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Speaker 1: find and create space for myself to grow, Like you said,

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Speaker 1: to fill my cup. You know, it's like what am

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Speaker 1: I gonna do today? What am I gonna write today? Um?

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Speaker 1: You know, because I was making money won't be an

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Speaker 1: answer when your kids ask you what you were doing?

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Speaker 1: So um, you know, a lot of it has to

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Speaker 1: do with my children, you know, and as they grow up,

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Speaker 1: they're inheriting a world that they did not ask for.

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Speaker 1: You know something, my two year old, you know, we

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Speaker 1: had a conversation with me one time and she said

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Speaker 1: something along the lines of, you know, this is crazy

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Speaker 1: because I didn't ask to be here, you know, And

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Speaker 1: it wasn't in a way that was negative, but it

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Speaker 1: just stayed with like, man, like we bring people. We

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Speaker 1: bring children to this world, often selfishly because we want

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Speaker 1: a kid, or because we we want that in our lives,

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Speaker 1: or we've we've we've kind of mapped out this direction

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Speaker 1: we want to go, not recognizing that we're literally bringing

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Speaker 1: children into the world that and not asking to be

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Speaker 1: to be here, and then we're expecting them to be

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Speaker 1: able to operate in a way that is healthy. Uh

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Speaker 1: that a way is that in a way that's sustainable,

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Speaker 1: in a way that they will be able to hopefully, uh,

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Speaker 1: bring positivity and light to their children. But they're all assumptions, right,

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Speaker 1: They're all assumptions. It's like, Oh, they're gonna be are

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna kid, They're gonna grow up, They're gonna do

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Speaker 1: that the I'm gonna raise them, I'm gonna rear them,

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Speaker 1: but the end of the day where they're literally inheriting

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Speaker 1: the world that we're giving them. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know that's so interesting. And I think, UM, the

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Speaker 1: way I look at parenting, especially parenting a black children,

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Speaker 1: it you have to be so thoughtful, you have to

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Speaker 1: be so thoughtful in what type of foundation you want

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Speaker 1: to instill in them. Like for me, the leading force

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Speaker 1: of my motherhood is having a son that has access

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Speaker 1: to joy. I want my child to feel joyful and

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Speaker 1: enthusiastic about himself and about the world, you know. And

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Speaker 1: so when I think of like some of the fibers

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Speaker 1: of UM really recalibrating how we experience our children are

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Speaker 1: retraining ourselves into how we experience ourselves. You know, no

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Speaker 1: matter what's happening, my son will be greeted with authentic

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Speaker 1: joyfulness from me. And you know, the way our nights

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Speaker 1: and is all in service to prayer and affirmation. And

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Speaker 1: you know, even though kids don't know all the words,

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Speaker 1: it's like expanding their emotional language of what their feelings

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Speaker 1: are and how they experience themselves. So like with quests,

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Speaker 1: it's like, you know, every night, you are so loved,

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Speaker 1: you are worthy, And then kids hold onto the words,

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Speaker 1: you know, and he starts running around the house. I'm worthy,

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Speaker 1: I'm worthy, you know. But giving them access, you know,

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Speaker 1: for me, especially with black children, we teach them how

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Speaker 1: to feel about themselves. So we have to make sure

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Speaker 1: that that initial feeling that they walk out of the

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Speaker 1: door for the first time with entering this really complex, complicated,

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Speaker 1: deeply unfair world is a cultivation of love for themselves,

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Speaker 1: of seeing God in themselves. Definitely is what you said

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Speaker 1: is very very true. You said the word retraining, and

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Speaker 1: I think I think you're absolutely right. Uh So often

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Speaker 1: we forget that they're being programmed. Every time they they

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Speaker 1: they open their eyes, they're seeing something that is that

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Speaker 1: is planting a seed in their spirit. And I think

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Speaker 1: if we're not counter programming um, then then we are

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Speaker 1: positioning them to fail. Because everything that they will learn

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Speaker 1: about themselves from mainstream America, from and we can talk

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Speaker 1: about that, but everything that every image, every reflection they'll

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Speaker 1: see of themselves unfortunately teaches them about their inferiority, you know.

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Speaker 1: So it's like affirmation is critical and and and I

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Speaker 1: cannot stress the importance of what you said, because at

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Speaker 1: that young age, you know, it's interesting because it's like

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Speaker 1: I talked to someone and they said, um, sturing an

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Speaker 1: interview and they're all blurned together. But someone asked, you know,

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Speaker 1: when do you start talking to your kids about that?

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Speaker 1: You know, um? And it makes me think about, you know,

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Speaker 1: a few of my Jewish brothers and sisters and how

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Speaker 1: they say, you know, as soon as you, you know,

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Speaker 1: are old enough to comprehend, they're telling you about your history,

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Speaker 1: about your position in the world, your relationship with God.

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Speaker 1: And I'm very much in line with that. I think

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Speaker 1: that for better and for worst, they need to know.

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Speaker 1: You know. My my, my a ten year old daughter,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about race in a very real way,

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Speaker 1: you know, because she she will intersect with it very soon.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times, like when I first time I

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Speaker 1: was called you know, the N word. I didn't go

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Speaker 1: home and say mom and dad, you know I was

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Speaker 1: called and this is it was really even at the

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Speaker 1: young age it happened. I was and I'm from Virginia,

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Speaker 1: so it was very young, but it was really like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I felt the energy of that what is wrong with me?

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Speaker 1: That I would be called a name that would make

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Speaker 1: me feel so bad that I don't even really know

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Speaker 1: what it means, you know. So then when I got

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Speaker 1: around to tell him my mother, it was okay, let's

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Speaker 1: have that talk. But I wish i'd known earlier, you know,

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Speaker 1: so I could have met it with affirmation. You know,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't understood. You know, you don't understand ignorance in

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Speaker 1: a in a way way that is intentional when you're

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Speaker 1: you know, seven six, you don't really understand it. So

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Speaker 1: these conversations are critical to our survival. It's life. God, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so powerful, I asked um, a psychologist friend of mine, once,

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Speaker 1: I'm really fascinated by trauma and mechanisms for healing. Um

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Speaker 1: and I asked her, why is it that we each, inherently,

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Speaker 1: as children, interpret anything that happens to us that we

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Speaker 1: don't understand is being unworthy or somehow being less than

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Speaker 1: or somehow being not shame. Well, you know, it's interesting

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Speaker 1: the way that a child's developing brain operates is She

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Speaker 1: said this quote to me that shook me. She said,

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Speaker 1: a child must blame or it will go insane. Because

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Speaker 1: when you're a child, the only God you can tangibly

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Speaker 1: understand is your parents they are the extent of your

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Speaker 1: whole world and whatever access however their lives look whatever

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Speaker 1: they give you allowance to. And so if you were

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Speaker 1: to believe that something was perhaps wrong or unhealed about

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Speaker 1: your parents or about your immediate structure in the world,

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Speaker 1: you would be in a constant state of fight or flight.

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Speaker 1: As a child, you would die, you would have a

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Speaker 1: heart attack. As a kid, you could not be able

429
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: to take on the load without emotional language development, all

430
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: of the things that something is wrong with the world.

431
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: So you start training yourself to believe that something is

432
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: wrong with you, and then you layer and you layer

433
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: and you layer. Um And I think that's so indicative

434
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: of the black experience and some of the things that

435
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 1: you really so powerfully beautifully explore in your films. It's like,

436
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: what are all the other residues that existing aside from

437
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: this moment we're seeing on screen or happening with the characters.

438
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: M M. Yeah. There's a there's a great book called

439
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. If you get a chance, check

440
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: it out. It's about drum Joey de Gran and she

441
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: talks about that just how so much of the trauma

442
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: that we passed down to our children. Uh is not

443
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: It doesn't come from nowhere. It comes from very specific

444
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: programming for survival, you know. And she speaks about how

445
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,959
Speaker 1: oftentimes the way our our parents will talk to us

446
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: about you know, uh, when they're talking to other people,

447
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: you know, um, how's your how's your son doing, how's

448
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: your daughter doing? Man? He he just you know, he's

449
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: gonna figure it out who he's not. You know, Like

450
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: this's kind of like there's there we don't kind of

451
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: speak entitlement and privilege in to our kids. It's kind

452
00:25:55,280 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: of like m we we we oftentimes slide them then

453
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: don't know it, but it's something. But it's because it's

454
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: what was what happened to us, you know, you know,

455
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: and and and but we can't bring our parents because

456
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: that's not the route either. That's still the branch. We

457
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: go down to the root. Um And this book she

458
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 1: talks about how the plantation, you never knew if your

459
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: child would be taken away for their gifts, you know,

460
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: or you never knew that they would be taken by

461
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,959
Speaker 1: an overseer for their looks. Um, So there was this

462
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: constant uh, this this this blanket you're covering your children

463
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 1: with that to others, denegrated them so they would lose interest,

464
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: and it was done to protect them. And it's like, man,

465
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: you know, like even you know, beating your kids for

466
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: touching something at a store or getting too far away

467
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: from you, these are all things that the roots are

468
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: deeply set in plant the plantation, and so unpacking that

469
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 1: allows us to kind of open our open ourselves to

470
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: a new a of exploring relationships with our children. And

471
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: sometimes for me, it's meant allowing them to mess up,

472
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: allowing them to fail, allowing them to make messes, allowing

473
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: them to tear a store up, um, and being okay

474
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: with the fact that they're just learning the world and

475
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: the way the white kids do. Yeah, and and and

476
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 1: and and and I told this story once about being

477
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,199
Speaker 1: in a store with my mother, and uh I grew up.

478
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: My mom was like, stay close to me, single parent household.

479
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: You know, my dad passed away when I was young,

480
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: so she was like, stay very close to me, don't move,

481
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,479
Speaker 1: don't touch anything. Um. And I remember seeing this this

482
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: mother with her little white son walking down the aisle

483
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: and he had his hand out on the cereal aisle

484
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: and he was walking and all he was about ten

485
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: steps behind. All the cereal was just crashing on the floor,

486
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: all of it. It was just like it was fun

487
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: and funny and and I remember my heart to start

488
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: beating so fast because I thought to myself, he's gonna

489
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: get a beaten, like someone's gonna pick him up and

490
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: beat him. And within an inch of the like right,

491
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: my trauma and his mother, whatever she was doing, I

492
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: know she could hear, but she just turned around. I

493
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: didn't even look at the sea, and Graham was like,

494
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: come on, And I looked up at my mom, like,

495
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: will you beat that kid? Like so he needs to know.

496
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: But I was projecting, even as a child, my trauma

497
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: onto that kid and that experience. But now as now

498
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: as a as a parent, I have learned to you know,

499
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: chew the meats without the bones, you know what I mean,

500
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: and raise all things that I think we're helpful about

501
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: my upbringing in the way I was raised, and kind

502
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: of be okay with letting some of the other stuff

503
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: go and stopping the cycle, not because anyone was trying

504
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: to hurt me, but because those tapes, those old tapes

505
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: don't apply to me any more. I'm in control now,

506
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: this is this is my family. You know, this is

507
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: my this is my uh approach to parenting in a

508
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: way that is healthy and that inspires a certain level

509
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: of privilege and entire of it. Yeah, yeah, I want

510
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: my child to feel privileged. You run this thing, you

511
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: can have whatever yours. Yeah, that's so yeah, so much.

512
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: I think two of our you know, as we approach

513
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: breaking down the structure, the family structures that slavery gave us,

514
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: that still feel so prevalent in so many of our households.

515
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: Like to me, joy and pleasure are the road? Are

516
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: the road there? You know, like we tell our kids historically,

517
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: no for no reason, right, Like, oh I like this. No.

518
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: It's like almost like we are all taught to rehearse

519
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: tragedy constantly, always playing these loops of like the worst

520
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: case scenario. And you know, for me that reprogramming is like, okay,

521
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: but what's the best what's the best thing that could

522
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: happen in this not what's the worst thing. What is

523
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: the best way that we can stand in this moment

524
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: for the highest good of all concerned? Um? Yeah, so powerful, mate.

525
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the movie. Let's talk about the film

526
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: the most recent one. Oh my god, all right, American Skin.

527
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: American Skin follows a black Iraqi war Vett, who, after

528
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: being denied a fair trial following the shooting death of

529
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: his teenage son and only child by a white police officer,

530
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: desperately seeks justice and accountability for his son's death. It's

531
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: presented by Spike Lee. American Skin is written, directed by,

532
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: and starring Nate Parker. The film also stars at Murray Hardwick,

533
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: bo Nap, Theo Rossi, Shane, Paul McGhee, uh many many more,

534
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: Vanessa Bell Callaway And It's now playing in sellect theaters

535
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: and on old digital platforms. I bought it on a

536
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: few platforms. I bought it on my Amazon, on my Apple.

537
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm gonna have it everywhere I could watch it.

538
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: It's very very it's very interesting. Um. You know, we

539
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: don't have a marketing budget, you know, and it's a

540
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: small film, but man, the word of mouth has been

541
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: absolutely insane, the audience reaction, you know, it's it's it's

542
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: very interesting, you know, because we have you know, call

543
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: it a thirty rotten tomatoes from from you know, several

544
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: critics call it five of them. I don't know, um,

545
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: But then we have you know, a nineties six from

546
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: five thousand audience members, which is the highest score and

547
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: all of Ratten Tomatoes for any film for an audience

548
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: score future films. So uh, And it's interesting because you know,

549
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: I made this obviously for the people. You know, I

550
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: want our voices to be elevated in a way that

551
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: was unapologetic, and I wanted to make everyone who is

552
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: complicit in the way that not only we are killed,

553
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: but in the way that it is kind of pivoted

554
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: always into something that further traumatizes us. I wanted to

555
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: hold everyone accountable to that um and add to that

556
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: conversation away that was real and authentic. Yeah, you know

557
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: with those critics the way that I feel, it's like,

558
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: if you don't get it, that says more about you

559
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: than it does about the film. You know, if you're

560
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: not able to really because there's so many stories being told,

561
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: we're always confer it with whiteness, like as any any

562
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: person of color of any background. It's like every film

563
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: we ever saw was about whiteness, every democratic even once

564
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: about black people. You're like, when when is it okay

565
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: for us to tell our own stories and to be

566
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: honest without a white man over my back telling me

567
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: that to him it didn't feel true. You know, if

568
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: I had a dollar for every time I was making

569
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: a film and someone who didn't look like me would

570
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: read the script or would watch a scene or even

571
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: hear a dialogue about a scene and say, that doesn't

572
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: feel you know, realistic. M You know me, you know me,

573
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: know me like and I have zero tolerance, which is

574
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: why every project I go into, one of the things

575
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: I fight for so desperately is creative control. You know.

576
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: It's like people need to be able to tell their

577
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: stories without being inhibited. You know. It's like, if we're

578
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: telling a story about you know, the wonderful women have

579
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: been fighting for the right to vote in all differently,

580
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: there shouldn't be some man over their shoulder like, well,

581
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, and I think that we

582
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: have that's because that's not art. It becomes instantly propaganda,

583
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because it's not authentic to

584
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,239
Speaker 1: the people it's trying to serve um. And so you know,

585
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,719
Speaker 1: I'm very aware and intentional about making films that speak

586
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: to us in a way that is real, uh, in

587
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: a way that cannot be spun into into into some

588
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: type of peace that makes everyone feel good when they leave.

589
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: It's never my intention hold that thought. We are coming

590
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: right back. What inspired you to specifically right this film? Um?

591
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: And is there any significance to the name Lincoln Jefferson. Yeah,

592
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: well I answered the first questions in the second, but

593
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: there's tons of significance. Um. I was inspired to write

594
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: this film for for a reason. For for specific reason

595
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: is I got custody of my nephew from my sister,

596
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: beautiful young man. He was thirteen at the time I

597
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: got custody of him. He had come from the school

598
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: system that I was in, um years in Virginia Portsmoth, Virginia,

599
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: and he had come and tested you know. I went

600
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: and picked him up, and I asked him, Hey, you

601
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: know I'm gonna change your life. Um, but it's not

602
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: because you're better. You know, I'm putting you in a

603
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: position that you can better serve the people that you're

604
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: leaving once you have everything you need. Brought him to

605
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: be with me, put him in school, and he tested

606
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: into the fifth grade as an eighth grader, you know. Uh.

607
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: And that was not a slight on his intelligence. Was

608
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: a slight on the broken education system that we refused

609
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: to talk about right whenever, and I'm a digress for

610
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: a second. Whenever we're talking about the broken you know,

611
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: education system. Uh am, I getting myself in trouble. But

612
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say specifically with liberals, the conversation automatically spends

613
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: into yeah, this education system and in America is broken.

614
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 1: No no no, no, no no no no no. I'm talking

615
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: about for black kids. Let's be specific. Because if you

616
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: have the ability to put your kids in a in

617
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: a private school, whatever color you are, guess what, they're

618
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: gonna get a better education. You know, there's a massive

619
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: divide in education when it comes to the school that

620
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: is here in San Marino or whatever, in the school

621
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: that is in um, you know, off Bell Centro in

622
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: in South l A. And so I'm bringing him to

623
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: the school. Immediately I thought, man, like, what did I do?

624
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: He's already you know, he's gonna have a tough time

625
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: getting on these there are ninety people that look like him.

626
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: The school was like, give us a shot at him.

627
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: We're gonna, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna make sure

628
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: he catches up. And uh and he started to catch

629
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: up very quickly and was very much involved. It was

630
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: as if he was engaged in a different way. But

631
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 1: I realized very quickly two thousand and fourteen August, when

632
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: Michael Brown was killed and his body was bloated and

633
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: swelling on the hot pavement, uh, that I'd kind of

634
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: taken him out of the frying pan into the fire.

635
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: Because now, while he wasn't in a situation where he

636
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 1: was being miseducated, uh, he was in the situation we

637
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: had to ride his bike, you know, through white neighborhoods

638
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: um and he is a dark skinned, tall, beautiful black

639
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: man young man at the time. And so as we're

640
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: watching the news, he turns me and says, uncle, Nate,

641
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: what do I do if I get pulled over on

642
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: my bike? And you know, me being the the the fearless,

643
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: you know, actives, I said, you call me and I'll

644
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: straighten it out. I'll come there. And I was like, whoa,

645
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: don't call me, don't don't grab your phone. Um, you know,

646
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: just slow your bike down, you know, the second you

647
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: can look at the officer, look at him, get your

648
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: feet down, get your hands up, so it doesn't feel

649
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: like is anything happening that he can't see as he's

650
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: coming out, keep your eyes on him so you can

651
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: see your amanity, your bit, your baby face. And of

652
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,439
Speaker 1: course he's looking at me with bugged out eyes like

653
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? You know, like all of

654
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: a sudden, super strong uncle Uncle Nate has become this

655
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: this this coward you know uh. And it affected me.

656
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 1: I felt very ashamed that I didn't have an answer

657
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 1: for him, a real answer, you know, because what is

658
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: the answer, Because you can do everything right and still

659
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: get killed just on the strength. So that began my

660
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: journey into finding an answer. Now I've been to protests.

661
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: I was there, you know. I went to protests when

662
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: Eric Garner was killed and watched the ubers and the

663
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: cabs drive around the protesters. I was in Ferguson as

664
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: you know. Um, I've gone everywhere but I but I

665
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: went really demanding but not trying to break down the

666
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: psychology g around where we were falling short as a

667
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: as a community, you know, I mean, what is the divide?

668
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: Like why aren't we getting accountability? Why aren't why is?

669
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: Why do we often hear the conversation around police brutality appropriated,

670
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: but we're not hearing it actually turnover into action, that

671
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: is changing the narrative. Um. And that's where I started

672
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: to think, Wow, if I could if I could get

673
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: everyone in a room and kind of force our voices

674
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: to be heard in an or or else way, UM,

675
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: then we wouldn't have to be we wouldn't have to

676
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: be screaming and crying. But the only thing you see

677
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: on the news is you know, the tanks and the

678
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: gas and the riots. Um, and that kind of that

679
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: kind of inspired this kind of Sydney Lament, twelve angry

680
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: Men Dog Day Afternoon type vibe. You know, how do

681
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: I hold people hostage, enforce accountability and do it in

682
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: a way with imagery that people have never seen in

683
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 1: the history of cinema or in real life for that matter.

684
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: So so that was kind of how I approached it.

685
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: You know, it came it was inspired by my my

686
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: you know, my nephew son and um, and then kind

687
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: of grew into something that was you know, became a

688
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: feature and then we we just we just went and

689
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: shot it, you know. And and it's like anything else.

690
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: When you're raising money, Uh, it's always hard to go

691
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 1: to well intentioned white people to get money that will

692
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: inevitably create the type of equity that will maybe make

693
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: them feel like they've lost something. Um so, and it's tough,

694
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: you know, because you got to do it. You know,

695
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: I'm would be constantly begging for money from the very

696
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: people were trying to get to understand what's happening to

697
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: us and maybe you know, um so it got the

698
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,839
Speaker 1: money shot the film and uh and then you know

699
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: that before that, obviously we created this character. I created.

700
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: I created this character Lincoln Jefferson, and I named him

701
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: that really to point to what it means to be

702
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: a patriot within the context of not being considered a

703
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 1: human you know, um, being someone as a veteran who

704
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 1: went and for on foreign soil, for freedom that he

705
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: couldn't that his child could not enjoy because it was

706
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: taken from him, and doing it with a name that

707
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: to to to some people call up heroism Lincoln Jefferson,

708
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: but to people who have historical contexts, um calls up

709
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 1: more racist ideology and rhetoric. You know, we know Jefferson

710
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: had slaves, we know how you treated to slaves, we

711
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,479
Speaker 1: know how you treated his children. Um. We know about

712
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: Lincoln that yes, he signed the Emancipation Proclamation, but not

713
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: without uh deep prep and intense pressure from Frederick Douglas.

714
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: We know that he said with his own mouth that

715
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: he didn't believe that we were equal, and that there

716
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: was something that that made us inherently inferior, and that

717
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 1: we would always be inferior. Ah, these came, these words

718
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: came out of his mouth. But yet and still we

719
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: as a as a as a group of people, not

720
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: to not to You know, I know that that we are,

721
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: um not a monolith. But I speak when I when

722
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: I say black people in this context, I mean it

723
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: to be. We are like step children, you know, our

724
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: foster children were. We're so often we're so desperate to

725
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: be accepted by individuals that refuse, or by a society

726
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: that refuses to accept his refus refuses. They may give

727
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 1: us a job with their diversity initiutes where they don't

728
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: celebrate our differences. They don't, you know. Um. So, the

729
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: whole idea of Lincoln Jefferson as a name was to

730
00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: specifically call out the desperation we have of and being

731
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: accepted in a in a nation that refuses to accept

732
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: or acknowledge our humanity, and regardless of the sacrifices we make,

733
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: even and even with with us assuming their identity. That

734
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: makes sense. So, um, you know, anything that I do

735
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 1: is going to be specific. Uh. And and that name

736
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: was was very very specific, and there's more meaning to it.

737
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: And you know, as we talk more at different times,

738
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 1: we'll talk more about it. But that was on the surface,

739
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: that's what I That was my entry point to his name,

740
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: LORDA Mercy. You know, when I saw the film, it

741
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 1: gutted me. It really really gutted me. It was incredibly done,

742
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: it was powerful. Um. I wanted to run out the

743
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: house and you know, get any streets and do something. Um.

744
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: It was Yeah. The thing that really I think gutted

745
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: me was just the witnessing of this beautiful man's grief

746
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 1: and the witnessing of so many invalidated feelings, you know,

747
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: like in such a layered way, one the obvious black

748
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: in America. But you go off to Iraq, you are

749
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: literally a warrior, right and you are using your body,

750
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: literally your body and your life in service. You come

751
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 1: back and he came back to a feeling of defeatedness.

752
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: He came back to a feeling of not being able

753
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: to fully provide for his family, a feeling of you know,

754
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: being in a position going from a powerful leadership position

755
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: to now having to be minimized in so many different ways,

756
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: um or having to you know, speaking code or kind

757
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: of just like yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And then but

758
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: also you know the complex layers. He is a loving

759
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: father and expanse of open heart, wants to have an

760
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: expanse of open heart, but also has lived through so

761
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 1: much and that internal fight between opening and closing, opening

762
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: to love, closing, opening, closing, you know. Um, and then

763
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 1: for this experience to happen to him, um, and then

764
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: you know everyone will see when they see this movie. Um,

765
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: it just it just for me, really spoke to all

766
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: the ways that black men deserve to be loved and

767
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: healed and treated tenderly and treated with reverence. You know

768
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: that kind of that tenderness is just really missing, that

769
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: that place of holding space for blackmail pain, you know,

770
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: like even touch right, Like how often are people really

771
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: deeply hugged? How often are black men having like nourishing,

772
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: uplifting conversations that seep in you know? Yeah, And I

773
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: think I'm going to take it back to how we

774
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: opened this conversation. When and when you when you when

775
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: you said, you know Kobe and what he means what

776
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: he continues to mean to black men. UM as a

777
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: black man, he desperately loved his children, desperately loved his family.

778
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: He desperately loved his team. He led his teammates, he

779
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: spoke his truth. He had integrity, he had intelligence, he

780
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: spoke different languages. UM. He had work ethic. AH, he

781
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: had he had inner strength and outer strength. UM. He

782
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: led by example, like all the quality qualities you look

783
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: for in a black man, so many of those we

784
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: saw in him. And it's and it's not dissimilar to

785
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: Chadwick Boseman passing. You know, Um, black men, in my opinion,

786
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: are low hanging fruit in this country. You know, where

787
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: the where the We're the last to be loved, the

788
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: first to beat d And that happens because, in my opinion,

789
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: well it's real, I think, and I think it happens

790
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: because of our fractured relationship with the truth about how

791
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: this country started, you know, and the Willie Lynch letters

792
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 1: we talked about in great debaters. You know, they would

793
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: oftentimes take the strongest black man, the Kobe Bryant, the

794
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: Chadwick Boseman, uh, and they would tarn feather him and

795
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: then they would horse and quarter him and set the

796
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 1: remain remaining carcass on fire in front of everyone of

797
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: the other enslaved people to let them know just how

798
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: quickly their lives could could end, how quickly they could

799
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: be snuffed out. Uh. And if you look at the

800
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 1: prison industrial complex where so many of our strong, intelligent

801
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: black men are, it is a form of that prepared

802
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: actuated lunching. That's where we are. We are. Take the

803
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 1: father out of the household, take the strength from the community,

804
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: and you lock them up, and you throw away the key.

805
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: Uh and and you and and you destroy their psyche

806
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: and then let them out and then start whispering mental

807
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: illness out of context. You know, you you know what

808
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: I mean. So when when we talk about the black

809
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: men and how he is how he is treated in

810
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: this country, we can't forget about how it started, you know.

811
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: I mean, Jeez, On the plantation, a black man couldn't

812
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 1: ask for food. If they ran out of corn mill,

813
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: the black woman had to go to the house and

814
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 1: ask for it, and had oftentimes do whatever it took

815
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: to get the food to bring it back to the cabin.

816
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 1: Why because it was impossible for a black man to

817
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: speak in the president of a white man and not

818
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: offend him. Why because white men were completely insecure as

819
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: they should have been with respect to the manhood of

820
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: black men. It has not it's the same reason. Well,

821
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: it's like I always am blown away when I see

822
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: an image of like you know, I come from sports background.

823
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: How I am able to be in front of you

824
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: right at the beginning of my life when you see

825
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 1: twenty strong, huge black man, hollow around five ft two

826
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: white man telling them what they're going to be doing.

827
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: Or you'll see the owners in the NFL like that

828
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,399
Speaker 1: fig Yeah, I figured you appreciate that owner. You'll see

829
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: the owner back like this during the games making the

830
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: little calls and take him out, take him to get

831
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: him out of here. And you see the and you're

832
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,439
Speaker 1: seeing the bodies doing this, and these brothers are dying

833
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: at fifty four, all of them, you know what I mean.

834
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: So when we talk about the destruction and the and

835
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: the and the and the Kleenex like quality, you know

836
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: a way that we're thrown away. Of course worse, it's no,

837
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: it's no wonder. We are. We are guarded, and we

838
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: are fearful, and we are paranoid, and we are stressed

839
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 1: and we are mentally ill because this is our experience

840
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 1: every single day. So when you think about right and spiritually,

841
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: when you think about this man, Lincoln Jefferson, who did

842
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: everything right. He fought for this country. As you said,

843
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: he gave his body, came back broken, and a lot

844
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: of people missed that that was the reason why their

845
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: relationship didn't work with his with his wife, that he

846
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,959
Speaker 1: could not get it together, and it calls the straight

847
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: and But knowing the importance of raising a son, he said,

848
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: is it okay? You know that we share him what

849
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: I instilled, the thing in him, the things that need

850
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: to be instilled in him. In fact, I'm gonna make

851
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: sure he goes to the best school in in in

852
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,240
Speaker 1: the area. In fact, I'm going to scrub the toilets

853
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: of these very people that I know look down on me,

854
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: the children of those who you know, you get what

855
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: I'm saying, to do whatever I can to make sure

856
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: he have. He did everything right. Yeah, so many black

857
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: men are doing everything right and they turn on the

858
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: TV and all they see is oh the negative. You know,

859
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 1: whatever the spin needs to be to get the traction,

860
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: to get the This is our every day. So at

861
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: what where's the breaking point? At what point does the

862
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: black men say, you know, as as Dr King suggested,

863
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 1: you know, no Lincoln and Linkonian e Man's patient proclamation

864
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: can bring about the strength and liberation that a black

865
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: man and black woman need, they must reach inside of themselves.

866
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: At what point do we just reach inside of ourselves

867
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: and say, all right, bet enough is enough, My life

868
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. We're gonna get some justice. Because he was

869
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,720
Speaker 1: a good It wasn't. He wasn't some dude though smoking

870
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: We eve before he ran up in there, you know,

871
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: as white man on my shoulder may have, you know,

872
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 1: suggest he didn't. But you know what I mean, Like,

873
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: those are the kind of notes you get. What if

874
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: he's a really a street guy, and what if what

875
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 1: makes him redeeming is that it's just a good man

876
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: that loves his son and and and it's dealing with

877
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: the brokenness of rejection as a as a as a

878
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 1: as a patriot is no more more, no one more

879
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: patriot than he was. Um. But I wanted to tell

880
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: that story and do it in a way that anyone

881
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: could identify. All of us got children, all of us

882
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: love our children, you know what I mean? Like, but

883
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: can you identify with this man and the justice he

884
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: needs in the accountability that needs to take place, Because

885
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: I think if if you can identify with him, then

886
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: you have an entry put into the conversation and the discussion.

887
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: And if you identify with the discussion, then it will

888
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 1: stay with you. If it stays that you will spill

889
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: out into life, and it spills out into life, you'll

890
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: have conversations with the people in your life that don't

891
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: understand what Black Lives Matter is all about, what Brian

892
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,280
Speaker 1: Stevenson is talking about, what color of Change is trying

893
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,479
Speaker 1: to achieve. You get what I'm saying. So the whole

894
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: point of the of that whole movie is just abounce

895
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: pass towards the shot. All it is is a setup

896
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: for this type of conversation. If it takes me make

897
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: a movie for you to want to interview, interview me,

898
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: for this to go out to your audience then to

899
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 1: think about, like, man, let me see this film, then

900
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: to engage their white friends, or engage their police friends,

901
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:16,720
Speaker 1: have them watching have a real discussion about internal accountability

902
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: as well as external accountability, then so be it right? Yeah, yeah, quick, note,

903
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 1: you've actually been on my interview bucket list for four years.

904
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 1: So it wasn't just this film you were You've been

905
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 1: on my list, Um, but it's really just the way

906
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: you are in the world, you know, and your creative

907
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: brilliance and your faith. And UM, I'm glad for this

908
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: movie because it's been the best vehicle for me to

909
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: be able to get you in front of a mic. Um.

910
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: You know, I want to be respectful of your time.

911
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 1: I want, but I have a couple of things to

912
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: touch on. Um. So Americans spent American skin really speaks

913
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: to blackmail, pain, being invalidated by white supremacy, by patriarchy,

914
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: by injustice. And we know that not being seen by

915
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: the world that we live in is so profoundly harmful

916
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: to our own self image. So how do you love yourself?

917
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 1: Take away the service, I'm very clear, how actively you

918
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: are showing up for the world, you are showing up

919
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 1: for your family. How do you love you? That's a

920
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: tough one. I mean, I don't know. I don't think

921
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: about myself as often in that context. I think I

922
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: don't know what I am outside of service. If I'm

923
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: keeping it real, you know, Um, you know, from the

924
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: moment I will wake up to the moment I go

925
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: to sleep, I'm it's like a Rubik's cube, trying to

926
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 1: figure out how I can contribute UM to legacy. How

927
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 1: I cantin you know, to my children, to to your children,

928
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 1: to quest like, how can I use whatever power that

929
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: is in me to shift this whole thing? So when

930
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,439
Speaker 1: I'm gone, it will be, it will have I will

931
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: be I'll be able to say that I was here,

932
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: you know that that I didn't waste you know, you

933
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 1: know these functional hands in this functional mind. Um. You know,

934
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: maybe it seems like I'm being evasive. I'm not trying

935
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,720
Speaker 1: to be no, but I do think it's important to note,

936
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:23,240
Speaker 1: especially for listeners, there is also some trauma response woven

937
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 1: into that. You know, Um, we were not naturally taught

938
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: how to love ourselves just being alive on earth, regardless

939
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: of you know, demographic background. We're not taught to love

940
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: ourselves in any way. We're not taught to feel any

941
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 1: of our feelings in real time, and we are taught

942
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: to suppress constantly suppressing our own joy, suppressing pleasure, suppressing lightheartedness.

943
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: Everything feels like for our own protection, it has to

944
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: be outward projecting UM. And that's one of the reasons

945
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: I love meditation. But that's a whole another conversation. Well,

946
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 1: it's true, and we've talked about that before, and I

947
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: and I and I want to into to meditation and

948
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: want to do more that. It's funny because um, in

949
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: the new film that I'm doing, one of the things

950
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 1: I found in my research is um when people are

951
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,479
Speaker 1: in specifically in solider confinement, doing a phone about solidier

952
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 1: confinement and the inhumane aspects of that. But in my research,

953
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: one of the guys was saying, how when you are

954
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: in a place of of of being to humanized or

955
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: being marginalized, or there's a grave injustice happening, the only

956
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: way to survive is to have a mission, you know,

957
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 1: to to set your sight on something and sprint toward

958
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: it as fast as you possibly can. He said. It

959
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: passes the time but allows you to kind of dodge

960
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: traps of the enemy. Uh. And it really hit me

961
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: because I feel like it spoke to the prison of

962
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: being a black man in America, you know what I mean,

963
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: And how you can't go anywhere you want to go,

964
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: You can't open any door you want to open when

965
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 1: you want to open it. Oftentimes you do have to

966
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: deal with gatekeepers constantly and people who are not for

967
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: you constantly. I can remember even being, you know, in

968
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: college and thinking to myself, damn, like, you know, I

969
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: went to a p W I um, I didn't go

970
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 1: to BBC, a predominant white institution, and that feeling of like, dang,

971
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: Like every every single day I have to be able

972
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: to coach which and talk to white people, uh, and

973
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 1: teachers and professors and whatever. And white kids will never

974
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: know what it's like. They can go their whole time

975
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 1: and never have to talk to a Black person their

976
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: entire and the football team is the reason why this

977
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:38,319
Speaker 1: whole place is here. It was like I just all

978
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: these things. But when that brother said that about the

979
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 1: whole idea of finding a mission, I feel like so

980
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 1: many of us as black men, once we realized that

981
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: the game is fixed, we stopped thinking about ourselves. We

982
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 1: just think about who the game is hurting and how

983
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: to break the game. That's that's all I think about

984
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 1: all day long, Dead, I promise you all I think

985
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,240
Speaker 1: about all day long is how to break the game.

986
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 1: How do I subvert the game? How do I flip

987
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: this on his head so I don't have to feel

988
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: guilty when I die, or shame when I died that

989
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: I my kids inherited a system, you know, uh, systemically

990
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: racist and oppressive system that is going to beat them

991
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: like it beat me. How do I turn their pain

992
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: into a stick. So I do need to think more

993
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: about I mean, the things that give me George, just

994
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: being around my family, you know what I mean. Like

995
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:33,959
Speaker 1: people ask I remember when the pandemic and people were like, um,

996
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: you know, how are you How are you sheltering? I

997
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: was like, I've been sheltering since the nineties, Like this

998
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: is this is my style. I love being home, like

999
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: I'm a home body, Like wake up on Saturdays. Every

1000
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: Saturday's home improvement day. I'm painting, I'm fixing stucco um,

1001
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: building stuff, like I built a treehouse in the back.

1002
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 1: Like I'm all about home. But even that is service

1003
00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: to my to my to my wife and children, you

1004
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like, I've really got to think

1005
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: more about how to in the same way that breaking

1006
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 1: my kids out of that way of thinking about how

1007
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 1: the world is not for them. I think black men,

1008
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: if I can so boldly speak for black men some

1009
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: of us, I think that there should be some work

1010
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: maybe around experiencing joy separate from the the trauma, you know,

1011
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 1: giving yourself because I don't, I have a hard time give.

1012
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: I get guilty when I give myself a break, you know.

1013
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 1: I try to write films that don't speak to our circumstance,

1014
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 1: and those the only times I get writers because I'm like, damn,

1015
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: like I could be using this time too, And and

1016
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: that guilt is the it's the old programming and loops

1017
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: of the oppressor and of colonialization, you know, like I

1018
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: think about when I think of like my biggest, deepest

1019
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: dream for black men, um, it's that they are just

1020
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 1: really allowed to experience themselves as tender and soft sometimes,

1021
00:58:56,400 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: you know, it's the of the life, because well, the

1022
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: enemy is always looking to jump. I mean, like even

1023
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: like I'm getting something done to my house, you know,

1024
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: and I live in a decent neighborhood, and just even

1025
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: when you know, one of my neighbors said one of

1026
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 1: the most racist things to my nephew that you can imagine,

1027
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: and then I had to deal with that, you know,

1028
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 1: or like when people come to my house, like I

1029
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: had someone even asked me, like what do you do?

1030
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: And like how it looking at their house? Looking at

1031
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: my house, looking at that, I was looking at that,

1032
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: or just you know what I mean. It's like you're

1033
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: never ever ever free from the ignorance from the white supremacy.

1034
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: It's so pervasive that you always That's the thing that

1035
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: I think is so important, um, that we start to

1036
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: expand in our communities, is that when you have access

1037
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: to that like internal battery of love, it creates this

1038
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: almost galaxy in your chest inside of you. And so

1039
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 1: there's this it's almost like a liberation from your cells

1040
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 1: outward for the inside out. And so by cultivating that

1041
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: and spending a little more time with that space, it

1042
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: does well, it doesn't change the system, but it does

1043
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: change how we're able to show up for ourselves in

1044
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 1: the system, and how we're able to find other things

1045
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: to think about and prioritize. You know. Um, it's just

1046
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: when I when I look at it, right when I

1047
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: and keep in mind another one of our mutual friends,

1048
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 1: I have this conversation with him all the time, Charlemagne um,

1049
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: and I got him meditating. But um, you know, to me,

1050
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: that is the only way we actually create structural change

1051
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 1: within our family systems. That is the way we change

1052
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: generational trauma. That is the way we change our ancestral

1053
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: trauma is for us to radically love ourselves and not

1054
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: love ourselves and see our worth through service or through

1055
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 1: providing or through productivity, but love ourselves because we exist

1056
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 1: and we're worthy and regardless. H that's a journey. That's

1057
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 1: a journey, because I would, I would not Devil's advocate.

1058
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: But you're right, it's just sometimes I didn't say, but

1059
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: I said. It's just so I'm adding, I'm adding on

1060
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: it's just sometimes dangerous, uh, for me personally to step

1061
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: too far off the road. Um. You know when Jackie

1062
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,439
Speaker 1: Robins had a great quote, we said, a life only

1063
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 1: matters and the impact that has on others. You probably

1064
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't agree with that one, no, But well it depends

1065
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: on the definition of impact, right, Because I feel that

1066
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: I have impact on people through the way I love myself.

1067
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: And I think that the way that I love myself

1068
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: and the way that I allow myself to radiate my

1069
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: lessons and my love gives people permission to want the

1070
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: same for themselves. Just that planting of a seed, you

1071
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 1: know that. Yeah, yeah, it may look it makes sense,

1072
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 1: it makes sense, It makes sense. I love that I

1073
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 1: love that we'll get you the very optimistic, you know,

1074
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: and I don't even know if it's optimist. And the

1075
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 1: thing is, I just have an optimism that I will

1076
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 1: always be enough and I'll always keep going. I don't have.

1077
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 1: My optimism isn't placed in outside sources. But I try

1078
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 1: to just keep that little like inner oven burning for

1079
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 1: myself regardless of the significant challenges in my life and

1080
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 1: in this world. And it's funny for you. It's funny

1081
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 1: because that I feel like that is you know, that

1082
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 1: is everything that I teach my my my my children,

1083
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: my girls, you know, self love, self care, self love,

1084
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: self care. It's just as a black man. And like

1085
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: I said, we are not a monolist. I'm not speaking

1086
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: for everyone, but for me personally, it's sometimes hard living

1087
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 1: in this country. It feels like to reflect inward too

1088
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: too much is to forget what's happening outside. And I

1089
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: know that's not the case, but that is the journey.

1090
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: I think that's absolutely. Yeah, we're gonna what we're gonna

1091
01:02:55,880 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 1: say aside from yes, no, yeah, no, absolutely, And I

1092
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 1: think you know, the the amazing part about a healing

1093
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 1: journey and about whatever journeys we find ourselves on internally,

1094
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 1: we're on them for our whole life, right, So it's

1095
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 1: just like a constant practice of like I'm in pursuit

1096
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: of self mastery, but every day is me practicing that

1097
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 1: or attempting that. You know, But what you said is

1098
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 1: so accurate. But I think for everyone listening, especially the guys, um,

1099
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 1: you know, I would just really play the role of

1100
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: like observer, like just getting curious about ourselves and why

1101
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 1: we believe what we believe, but specifically why we relate

1102
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 1: to ourselves in whatever way we relate to ourselves. Just

1103
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 1: starting that dialogue of being curious and be like why

1104
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 1: do I talk to myself like that? Or when was

1105
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 1: the first time I started to feel that way about

1106
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 1: me or what I did or didn't deserve, you know not.

1107
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: And I mean, and I'm not saying in a way

1108
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 1: that's condescenting. I mean, it's like it's true, it's true,

1109
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: you know you And my internal monalogue is like this,

1110
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 1: all right, get up, all right, let's go get it alright, cool,

1111
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: all right, let's all right, let's do that. No problem,

1112
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: no problem at all, no problem, all right, Nate, Let's

1113
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 1: go Like it's literally like grit grit, grit, let's go.

1114
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 1: It's it's I've had very few conversations when I'm like, so,

1115
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 1: how do you feel it? You know, you know what?

1116
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 1: You know what I mean like, you know, yeah, you

1117
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 1: probably do it like this, since how you'd be like, hey, Nate,

1118
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 1: how are you feeling? Listen, bro, don't matter, get it,

1119
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: don't matter how you feel, go get it. But yeah,

1120
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 1: that's I think there's a lot of again, a lot

1121
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 1: of a lot of trauma um just in general. And uh,

1122
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 1: you know, even for your listeners as that you know,

1123
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 1: and and and I think it's it's healthy to be open.

1124
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 1: I think that's why I'm even having this conversation for

1125
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 1: all the for all the brothers that are that are

1126
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: listening specifically, I do believe that all this work isn't

1127
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 1: for nothing, you know what I mean that that we

1128
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 1: do want to see a place where our kids have

1129
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 1: a healthier environment. Uh, and they don't have to worry

1130
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 1: about being killed in the streets, or they don't worry

1131
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: about their brains their minds being killed in the schools.

1132
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 1: But you know, pursuing some some pursuing self love, I think,

1133
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: and maybe help us live longer, because black men live

1134
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: you know, our life expectfully is lower than everyone's. You know, um,

1135
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: when we talk about with COVID and pre existing conditions

1136
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 1: and you know, heart disease and diabetes and all the

1137
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 1: things that you know, just things that are just perpetuated

1138
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: by stress. It's stressful, dude. It is stressful being in

1139
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 1: this planet and recognizing that, you know, we are the

1140
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: wretched of the earth in the eyes of so many,

1141
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 1: but knowing at the root we are the original and

1142
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 1: we are strong. Do you get what I'm saying. It's

1143
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 1: the opposite when it comes to our capacity, But that's

1144
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 1: the journey. That's the journey. Uh. And it could be

1145
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 1: so worthy, um to for everyone to just look at

1146
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: you know, it's not sustainable to be at war with

1147
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 1: the world and at war with yourself, right, Like, that's

1148
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: not sustainable and that doesn't lend itself to really the

1149
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 1: freedom of the intergenerational trauma, the ancestral trauma that um

1150
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,919
Speaker 1: we have been waiting our whole lineage to get out

1151
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 1: of fighting. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. Okay,

1152
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 1: So Americans skin it is in all the places now. Um.

1153
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: I saw a beautiful video of Ditty crying after he

1154
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: saw this film. I saw Lebron tweeting it out and

1155
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 1: talking about how impactful. Like the way that this film

1156
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 1: has been received has been so powerful, so powerful. Um.

1157
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 1: And I feel like this film is just it's really

1158
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 1: being savored, you know, it is creating so much dialogue

1159
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,919
Speaker 1: within families, within communities. Um. And it's it's just it's

1160
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 1: it's so powerfully changing the narrative. That's the goal. Even

1161
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:06,959
Speaker 1: on the bottom of the poster says time to change

1162
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: the narrative. You know, like this is not acceptable anymore.

1163
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: You know. Dr King said we must be dissatisfied, like

1164
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: and every we must be dissatisfied. And what does it

1165
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 1: mean to look and field feel an act dissatisfied? You know,

1166
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 1: there needs to be pressured and needs to be resistance. Um.

1167
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 1: And the type of resistance that can't be ignored, you know.

1168
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: And I think the fact that we're in every barbershop

1169
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 1: right now, everyone's talking about in every barbershop, every beauty shop.

1170
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying on your job spot, on

1171
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 1: the basketball courts, on the football fields, because that's how

1172
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 1: we address subjugation. You know, we get into our little

1173
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 1: selves and we say how do we feel about this?

1174
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: Like if this is if we can, if we have

1175
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: to be honest about where we are right now then

1176
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 1: and what we saw this movie is true, then what

1177
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 1: is our part? Are we complicit and part of the problem?

1178
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 1: You know, are we a part of the solution? If

1179
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 1: we're part of the solution, what does that mean? Like,

1180
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: what does it mean to be a journalist who is

1181
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 1: part of the solution? You know, you do it every day,

1182
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 1: you know, the spiritual solution. You're you're you're you're kicking

1183
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:11,960
Speaker 1: them out every day. What what does it mean as

1184
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:15,520
Speaker 1: as an athlete to be a part of the solution.

1185
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 1: What does it mean as a as a writer, director, producer?

1186
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 1: What does it mean as a businessman businesswoman? What does

1187
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 1: it mean as a politician to be part of the solution?

1188
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:29,640
Speaker 1: As a parent? Boom, It's all we are at an

1189
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 1: impasse and I don't think you know, technology is a

1190
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 1: wrecking ball. It's taking things that would take a year

1191
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 1: to do before the type of mobilizing When you think

1192
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 1: about the mobilizing out of the bus boycott that took

1193
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 1: real work like that can be done. You know, if

1194
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 1: if if Rosa Parks had Facebook, or you know, if

1195
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 1: if Harriet had you know, what I mean Twitter, we'd

1196
01:08:54,560 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: be free. I'm gonna be there at three o'clock. Flash

1197
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 1: mob boom. Everyone gets the information to say time like

1198
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,480
Speaker 1: young people have it right now. They have the ability

1199
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,600
Speaker 1: to move and mobilize quickly. We saw what happened with

1200
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 1: reading in game. Stuff like technology can literally topple the Republic. Yeah, yeah,

1201
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: we so happened January six at the Capitol. We saw

1202
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 1: that they've been talking about that for how long over

1203
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 1: social media and in their own groups circles Like where

1204
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 1: we are right now from the standpoint of resistance for

1205
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 1: people that look like us, that are marginalized like us,

1206
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 1: and allies of our journey, there are things that can

1207
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 1: happen very quickly. So I hope that this film it's

1208
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 1: just it's not I'm not a savior. The film is

1209
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: not the answer, but I hope that it is a

1210
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 1: part of the conversation that leads us closer to the solution. Yeah.

1211
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 1: As we close out this show, Nate, Um, I like

1212
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 1: to leave our listeners with what I call soul work,

1213
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 1: and so um this will be a journaling prompt, but

1214
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,799
Speaker 1: I'd like to end fight you to answer this prompt

1215
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:05,760
Speaker 1: as our final moment. What do you wish that you

1216
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 1: were told or that you knew about yourself as a

1217
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:17,799
Speaker 1: black child? What do I I wish I was taught

1218
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: or told about history that started before slavery. Mm hmm.

1219
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 1: I came into it so late. And I think that's

1220
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 1: why I'm so desperate when it comes to our freedom,

1221
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: is because I feel like I wasted, you know, eighteen

1222
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 1: years of my life, uh, pursuing on a hamster wheel

1223
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 1: when it came to trying to figure out how to

1224
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:41,639
Speaker 1: be happy and how to be free. So I truly

1225
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 1: wish I had learned. It would have contextualized my religion.

1226
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: It would have contextualized my circumstances where I lived and

1227
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:52,800
Speaker 1: why I lived that way, to contextualize how it was

1228
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:56,880
Speaker 1: treated by teachers, how and how my classmate mates were

1229
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 1: treated by teachers. And I wouldn't have blamed, as you said,

1230
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 1: children blame. I wouldn't have blamed myself and us for

1231
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:09,120
Speaker 1: things that I knew had that had been done to us.

1232
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 1: You know, like when you speak, you speak as a queen.

1233
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:15,160
Speaker 1: You don't speak as an enslaved person, you know, like

1234
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 1: and anyone that's ever sat in front of you, here's

1235
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:19,680
Speaker 1: that right. And I think that that that is a

1236
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: connection to the ancestors. That is a context, you know.

1237
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 1: And the funny thing about time is that we were

1238
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 1: only enslaved for that long. That's it evolutionary scale and

1239
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:36,680
Speaker 1: and and civilization so to speak. Right, that's it and

1240
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 1: all the rest. We were top self. But no one

1241
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 1: teaches you that in this country. You know, the second

1242
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: you you know what it is to be to exist,

1243
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:52,439
Speaker 1: You're taught just to survive. Yeah, you know, so I

1244
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:56,639
Speaker 1: do wish that earlier on in life I was told

1245
01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 1: about the legacy of who we were as the original

1246
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,720
Speaker 1: man um. I think it would have impacted a lot

1247
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 1: of things. Yeah, that you're feeling of personal power had

1248
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 1: had nurturance to it, you know that there was that

1249
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 1: it had been done before that we're not reinventing the wheel.

1250
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 1: That we were not by barbarians, but the people who

1251
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,280
Speaker 1: had done that to us were the barbarians, you know

1252
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's like this is great wild where

1253
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 1: he says the United States is the only country to

1254
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:36,000
Speaker 1: go from barbarianism to decadence without civilization between. Ah yeah, yeah, yeah,

1255
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 1: this all this all the country went from barbarianism to decadence,

1256
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:43,759
Speaker 1: just like that and never had to deal with being civil. Yeah,

1257
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 1: this whole this whole country is built on like sociopathy,

1258
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, when the behavior doesn't meet actions. It's like

1259
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 1: we from its inception, there was this this bizarre, overgrandized

1260
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 1: claim that we were all equal and no one was

1261
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 1: except for white males. But it's yes, and now the constitution,

1262
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:07,680
Speaker 1: our Supreme Court is built to uphold the constitution of

1263
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 1: something real. For those people to sign that paper, those

1264
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 1: people sign that paper got everything that they wanted, everything, everything,

1265
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,800
Speaker 1: And we didn't sign that paper. Mhm. And I don't

1266
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 1: want to sign that paper. That's the thing we were

1267
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 1: about it. But that's the thing, at least figuratively, Yeah,

1268
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 1: of course, well mentally and emotionally and like yeah, the

1269
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:37,639
Speaker 1: way that we hold things within ourselves not going by that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't want your team to get mad at me. Um,

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01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 1: we could talk forever, We could the journal imprompt for

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01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:47,639
Speaker 1: everyone for this episode. Your soul work is just spend

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01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 1: some time today, really, um, just savoring in your own

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01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 1: mind of things that you wish you had been given

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01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:58,680
Speaker 1: access to as a young person, and how you can

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01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:03,320
Speaker 1: show up for yourself with that information more fully. Right now, Nate,

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01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:08,720
Speaker 1: you are a king, You are an incredible man. Um

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01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 1: you are seeing so clearly. I am so grateful for

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01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 1: your life. I am so grateful you exist. And how

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01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 1: lucky are we, How lucky are we to have you

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01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 1: and your creative genius and all your offerings to the world.

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01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 1: Really grateful for your time today, Thank you for creating

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01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:28,400
Speaker 1: space for us. You know we we we so often

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01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:31,280
Speaker 1: when it comes to this type of thing, we're kind

1285
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 1: of propped in front of people that don't look like

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01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:35,680
Speaker 1: us and kind of given the task of getting them

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01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:37,880
Speaker 1: to understand our experience. It always feels good to sit

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01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:40,439
Speaker 1: down with someone that that can connect with you on

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01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 1: the solar level because they are you, you know, so

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01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, appreciate your time always. Hey, find me

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01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:53,440
Speaker 1: on social Let's connect at deVie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram,

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01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 1: or go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And

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01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 1: if you're listening to the show on Apple podcast, please

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01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:06,760
Speaker 1: please please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe, and

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01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 1: send this episode to a friend. Dropping Jams is the

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01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio and Black Effect Network. It's

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01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 1: produced by Triple and Me. Debbie Brown. For more podcasts

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01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,

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01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:23,479
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.