1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: This is Latino USA, the radio journal of News and 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: Culture Latino USA. Latins Latino USA. I'm Maria Inojosa. We 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: bring you stories that are underreported but that mattered to you, 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: overlooked by the wrestler media, and while the country is 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: struggling to deal with these, we listen to the stories 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: of black and Latino Studio United Latino Front, a cultural 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: renaissance organizing at the forefront of the movement. I'm Maria Inojosa. Hey, 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: Latino USA, listener, Commestas aquilez bon show the Lost Archives. 9 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 2: You know that we're doing this episode about crying. 10 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: I know that we're doing an episode about crying from 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: Futuro Media and PRX. It's Latino USA. I'm Marie jo 12 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: Hoosa and today it's my podcast and I'll cry. 13 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 3: If I want to. 14 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: Joining me in this studio is producer Antonia Serejidro. 15 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 4: When I was an intern, I was having a really 16 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 4: hard day and I went into the bathroom and I 17 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 4: just cried, and to make myself feel better, I came 18 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 4: back out and I started to do these like calculations 19 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 4: of how many other Latinos were crying in New York 20 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 4: City at the same time as me. So what I 21 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 4: did is I went on the Wikipedia page, and according 22 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 4: to them, women cry between thirty and sixty four times 23 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 4: a year and men cry between six and seventeen times 24 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 4: a year. So there are two million Latinos living in 25 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 4: New York. And I did some kind of multiplication and division, 26 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 4: and I reached a number for what I thought the 27 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 4: number of other Latinos crying in New York City at 28 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 4: the same time as me was. And the number I 29 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 4: got was six hundred and forty six. 30 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: People, not six hundred and forty six thousand, six hundred 31 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: and forty six people. 32 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 4: Like other Latinos were crying at the exact same time 33 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 4: that I was crying. 34 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: I didn't know that you were a mathematical whiz, but okay. 35 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 2: I don't think I am. 36 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: I don't think you are either. 37 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 2: Then I kind of wondered. 38 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 4: I was like, well, I'm basing these numbers just based 39 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 4: off of like how many Latinos there are in New 40 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 4: York City. But what if Latinos cry at like a 41 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 4: way higher rate. I was like, then, how am I 42 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 4: even supposed to try to calculate this? And that's sort 43 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 4: of what spurred this curiosity in me. Which was like, 44 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 4: do Latinos cry more? Because it's sort of I think 45 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 4: the stereotype is that we do. 46 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: We're very known to be very dramatic, very emotional. I mean, 47 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: people immediately probably think of the telenovelas the close up 48 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: on the fake tier. You know that is just streaming 49 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: down at the exact right time. 50 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 4: It's funny that you say that, because for this story, 51 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 4: I interviewed Kaim Camille, who most people here in the 52 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 4: States probably know as Roquelo de la Vega from Jane 53 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 4: the Virgin, and I asked him about his experience with 54 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 4: crying on set, like. 55 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 5: I've worked with an actress once and she was like, 56 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 5: you know. The director I sort of, god, this is 57 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 5: I'm not making this up. The director was like, Okay, 58 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 5: on the second letter m of the word mama, I 59 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 5: want a tear from your left eye. Yeah, And I'm like, 60 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 5: what what Well nailed it on my second letter of 61 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 5: the word mama, a tear fell from her freaking left eye. 62 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,839 Speaker 5: And I was like so amazed. They had to cut 63 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 5: the scene because I was like, oh my god, you 64 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 5: did it, Hi, please stay on the scene. I'm like, 65 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 5: I'm sorry, man, this is this is this is like 66 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 5: like sending a rocket to the space. I mean, this 67 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 5: is like incredible. 68 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you have to be able to do that, Yeah, 69 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: especially if you're a Mexican soap opera star. 70 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 5: In Brazil, they call the Mexican novelas the Great Mexican 71 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 5: Tragedies because no one is happy. There's not one happy episode, 72 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 5: just the first one and the last one, everything in between. 73 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 4: Everybody cris There's even a meme that has become the 74 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 4: symbol of tears and that they didn't know that. You 75 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 4: know that sodaiam montendo meme. 76 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: The sorayam Montenegro mime. No I don't know it. 77 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 4: So Ita di Cantrel was this famous Mexican soap star 78 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 4: and she played this like villainous character, sodiam Montenado, and 79 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 4: for some reason, this like one steal of her, like 80 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 4: doing the one tear falling from her eye where it 81 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 4: looks really intense, and the caption underneath says cries in 82 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 4: Spanish became really popular. 83 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 6: You know. 84 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 4: It's like, oh right, it's like there's it's like there's 85 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 4: crying and then there's crying in Spanish. 86 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 2: It's like a totally other genre of crying. 87 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 4: So I asked Hymen about how he prepares her scenes 88 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 4: in which he has to cry. 89 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 5: One physical trick there is is that if you close 90 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 5: your eyes and you take three deep breaths, like really 91 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 5: slow in deep breaths one, two, three, and then on 92 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 5: the fourth deep breath, as you are inhaling, you open 93 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 5: your eye elites very slowly at the same time you're inhaling, 94 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 5: and then do not blink for for your life, do 95 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 5: not blink. And then you're there. And then and then 96 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 5: you have to add to that the emotion where you're 97 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 5: coming from the acting, that what do you want to 98 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 5: transmit to the audience. And you know it's a what 99 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 5: I mean, it's not it's not about having water in 100 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 5: your eyes. That's that that does nothing to the to 101 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 5: the heart or the emotion of the audience. That does nothing. 102 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 5: That that's just like a physical thing that your body 103 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 5: does to to lubricate your your eyeballs. I mean, you know, 104 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 5: if there are if there are no if there is 105 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 5: no emotion there, if there is no purpose, then there's 106 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 5: there's no context, there's there's no emotion to transmit. 107 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: So they didn't. 108 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 4: Novelas have been popular in Latin America for decades. The 109 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 4: first one actually came out in nineteen fifty nine. It 110 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 4: was called pril It was in Mexico. But since then 111 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 4: they didn't have just become like the fundamental thing you 112 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 4: watch on TV in most countries. In Latin America in 113 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 4: the sixties, there was a novela called Simplemented Maria, and 114 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 4: it was so popular that when the fictional media and 115 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 4: the show got married. In the show, ten thousand fans 116 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 4: showed up to the church to support her in her 117 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 4: fictional marriage. And to me, it's this emotional connection, the 118 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 4: emotion behind crying, that is what makes crying so interesting. 119 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 5: It is amazing, It is a commusciam Oh you express 120 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 5: the pressure cooker for your soul. Pressure cooker. 121 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's great, sounds so awkward. 122 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 5: Pressure cooker, cooker. The word cooker is the one that 123 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 5: is like getting me okay, yeah, I mean, crying is amazing, 124 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 5: is super comforting, and it's it's nice. 125 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 4: And so today we're going to explore this pressure cooker 126 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 4: for the soul and ask do Latinos cry more? What's 127 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 4: been the cultural or historical significance of crying in Latin 128 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 4: America versus here in the States. I had a really 129 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 4: hard time figuring out which to start this exploration. I 130 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 4: was feeling very lost, and so I conducted a highly 131 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 4: unscientific study to see. 132 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: Whether highly unscientific studies. 133 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 4: So I gathered a group of six Latinos, three big six, 134 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 4: a really great sample size, the really indicative sample size anyway. 135 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 6: Six Latinos, three Latino women, three Latino men, and then 136 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 6: I had six non Latinos, two white men, one Asian man, 137 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 6: two white women, and one black woman. And I sent 138 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 6: them the same survey every day for two weeks. And 139 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 6: I didn't tell them it was a survey about crying. 140 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 6: I told them it was a caffeine survey. So all 141 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 6: the questions were things like did you have caffeine today? 142 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 6: Was it in a tea form? Was it in a 143 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 6: coffee form? Like how energetic were you feeling? But the 144 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 6: last question was did you do any of these things today? 145 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 7: Laugh? 146 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 4: Cry, see what I did there, dance or call uh? 147 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 4: And I sent the email for two weeks. 148 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: I got back the. 149 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 4: Results every day, and today I finally tallied up who 150 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 4: cried more. And the results of this highland scientific. 151 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: Study, I'm filled with suspense. 152 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 2: Are really interesting. Do you have any guesses? 153 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 5: You know? 154 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: My immediate was obviously it's going to show that Latinos 155 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: and Latinas cry more. And then I'm like, don't be 156 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: so fast, wait a second. 157 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 4: So before we get into my results and find out 158 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 4: if money is correct, I think it's important that we 159 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 4: learned some history and find out where the stereotype even 160 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 4: came from before we can prove or disprove it. So 161 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 4: I reached out to perhaps the most pre eminent expert 162 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 4: of crying here in the US. 163 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 8: This is Tom Lutz. I'm the author of Crying, The 164 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 8: Natural and Cultural History of Tears. 165 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 2: So what is the earliest record of tears? 166 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 8: The earliest one I found, Yeah, the earliest one I 167 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 8: found was the clay Shard, a pottery shard in the 168 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 8: Sumerian Desert that tells the stories from the fourteenth century BC. 169 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 8: It tells the story of the death of Ball and 170 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 8: his sister Isis finds him dead and weeps over his body, 171 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 8: and those tears bring him back to life. So it's 172 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 8: a kind of classic story. 173 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 4: Pre Columbian groups like the Aztecs were known for crying, 174 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 4: specifically to reinforce requests, like when a provincial ruler would 175 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 4: ask the Aztec emperor for aid. Tears would have been 176 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 4: offered to the rain Godsla Loch in exchange for the 177 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 4: end of a drought. Anthropologists have found artifacts that depict 178 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 4: not just Aztec but also ink in God's weeping. But 179 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 4: as far as European culture goes, it seems the obsession 180 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 4: with crying, or at least its depiction, came a little later. 181 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 8: Painters had couldn't quite figure out how to do tears 182 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 8: for a while, so Hans Membling in the Renaissance is 183 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 8: the first one to really do good representations of tears 184 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 8: in painting. 185 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 4: While tears may have been having their heyday in Renaissance 186 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 4: paintings across the Atlantic, a legend, maybe the most iconic 187 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 4: crying legend, was being born in Mexico, Madia, What do 188 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 4: you think it was? 189 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: You're talking about Laona many s. 190 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 4: There's multiple versions of the legend of La Girone, but 191 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 4: one version goes as follows. There was a young woman 192 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 4: named Maria, great name, and Madia fell in love with 193 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 4: a nobleman and they had two kids together and they 194 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 4: were happy. But the problem was that their relationship was 195 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 4: not sanctioned by the church, and so Madia wanted to 196 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 4: marry This nobleman. But the nobleman's mother was like, no way, 197 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 4: and Madia was devastated and also enraged, and so she 198 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 4: did something horrible. 199 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: Oh no, no, you know what she did. It's a 200 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: terrible thing. She killed her children. 201 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 4: She drowned her two kids in the river and then 202 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 4: also drowned herself. And so now she's been doomed to 203 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 4: roam the earth going. 204 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 2: I' on this done me see. 205 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 3: Crying? 206 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, whaling. 207 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 4: So Ljodn as the whaling woman, and that is one 208 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 4: of the most well known legends in all of Mexico 209 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 4: and in many parts of Latin America. Okay, so this 210 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 4: all happened in the seventeenth century in Mexico and then 211 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 4: spread across into different Latin American countries. But in Europe 212 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 4: there was this big shift that just changed basically like 213 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 4: the way everything works in Europe, and it really had 214 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 4: a huge impact, particularly on the way people worked. 215 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 8: Only in the nineteenth century when we start to get 216 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 8: prohibitions of male crying, and that is I feel completely 217 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 8: related to the rise of the industrial workplace. That made 218 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 8: it very important for people to be able to get 219 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 8: through the day without having a lot of emotional friction. 220 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 8: And noise in the equation. 221 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 4: So you're saying, like, with the rise of machinery, people 222 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 4: were expected attack more like machines. 223 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 8: Sort of, that's that's not exactly the way I ever 224 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,599 Speaker 8: thought of it, but I like that. I think that 225 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 8: makes sense to me, which. 226 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 4: Leads me sort of to this theory that it's not 227 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 4: necessarily that Latinos cry more. It's just that at one 228 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 4: point Anglo Saxons were conditioned to cry less, or at 229 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 4: least less openly. These same socioeconomic changes just didn't happen 230 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 4: in the same way in Latin America. In Mexico, they 231 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 4: had their own revolution in the early nineteen hundreds, and 232 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 4: it was during that time that one of the most 233 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 4: recognized forms of Mexican music started to gain popularity. 234 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 9: Ran Yes. 235 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino U s A. We learn about 236 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: that magical crying spell that Ranchiras cast on weeping thicky 237 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: La drinkers, stay with us, Yes. 238 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 7: Still that. 239 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: Hey, we're back. Our producer Antoines Rahuido decided to call 240 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: up Adrian Florrido, who's a reporter for MPR's Code Switch. 241 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: She wants to ask him about Rancherras. 242 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 4: So, Adrian, you and I met for the first time 243 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 4: at a conference. Yeah, and I was telling you that 244 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 4: I was working on this kooky story about crying, and 245 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 4: immediately you were like, ah, that makes me think of 246 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 4: this essay that I read. So can you tell me 247 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 4: a little bit about the essay? 248 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 8: Yeah. 249 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 10: Well, one of my favorite writers on Latin America is 250 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 10: a woman, the journalist named Alma Guermo Prieto, who used 251 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 10: to write about Latin America for The New Yorker. She 252 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 10: wrote an essay. She starts the essay, Can I read 253 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 10: some of it for you? 254 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 4: Yeah? 255 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 256 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 10: Mexicans know that a party has been outstandingly successful if 257 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 10: at the end of it there are at least a 258 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 10: couple of clusters of law time or first time acquaintances 259 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 10: leaning on each other against a wall, sobbing helplessly. The 260 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 10: activities one normally associates with the party, flirting in conversation, 261 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 10: and even the kind of dancing that leads to an 262 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 10: abnesiac don in a strange bed, are considered here mere 263 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 10: preludes to our distractions from the ultimate goal, which is 264 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 10: weeping and the free, luxurious expression of pain. And a 265 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 10: casual observer of this ritual might conclude that the essential 266 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 10: Mexican fiend. The fiesta cannot happen without alcohol. Not so 267 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 10: it cannot happen without ranchera music. 268 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 2: I love that. What exactly is a rancheia song? 269 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 10: So rancea is it's like a traditional genre of Mexican 270 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 10: music which originated on them, like in the rural countryside 271 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 10: in Mexican ranchos, you know. And so they're just traditional 272 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 10: songs that are generally about like love or patriotism and 273 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 10: almost always about like pain or unrequited love or heartbreak. 274 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 2: So did you grow up listening to drounchda music? 275 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 10: Oh yeah, totally. I mean, like she's right like Mexican 276 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 10: parties and that way. And also like you can ask 277 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 10: any Mexican kid who grew up waking up on Saturday 278 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 10: and Sunday mornings doing like the Sunday cleaning and then 279 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 10: just the like my mom would like blast the vicenta 280 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 10: fit on this as we're like, you know, taking out 281 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 10: the trash and stuff. So you know, like danchetta music 282 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 10: is just like a part of the soundtrack of life. 283 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 7: You know. 284 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: You were telling me that you had heard of a 285 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 2: woman who had a similar experience to you growing up 286 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 2: where her parents would blast run chea music. 287 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 7: I am Biatris Garcia meats. I am forty three years 288 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 7: old and I live in San Antonio, Texas. 289 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 10: So Betris she goes by Bee usually. Both of her 290 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 10: parents are Mexican, and when she was little, they lived 291 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 10: in a working class neighborhood in San Antonio, but she 292 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 10: told me that her dad did really well for himself. 293 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 7: When I was thirteen, we moved to a neighborhood with 294 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 7: a golf course and a country club. 295 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 10: She ended up being surrounded by, you know, mostly mostly 296 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 10: white people, and Bethy's actually she actually described herself as 297 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 10: like able to pass her white herself, so she said 298 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 10: it was pretty easy for her to blend in. 299 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 7: And in my quest to fit in, I guess I 300 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 7: align myself with all the people that I was surrounded by, 301 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 7: and so was very disconnected from being a Garcia, if 302 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 7: you will. 303 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 10: She was like trying to blend in, trying to pretend 304 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 10: like she wasn't Mexican, and then like on Sunday mornings, 305 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 10: her parents are blasting me. 306 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 3: Sent there right. 307 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 10: She remembers the way that her parents and other members 308 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 10: of her family would get when they listened to this music, 309 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 10: like the emotional connection they would have with it. You know, 310 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 10: they'd have these like parties and after a few songs, 311 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 10: as the night wore on, like people had a few drinks, 312 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 10: like we were saying, and they'd be singing along and they'd 313 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 10: get like really emotional. But b she like she just 314 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 10: didn't she didn't get why this happened. 315 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 7: I hate to say this, but it was kind of embarrassing. 316 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 7: It's just so over the top. And you know, the 317 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 7: pop music that was popular at the time and the 318 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 7: music that we listened to when we were in school 319 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:26,719 Speaker 7: didn't feel that way. So it was was like like 320 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 7: theater almost and it was just was too much. 321 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 10: But be at this time, you know, it was listening 322 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 10: to like rock and pop up the mid to late eighties. 323 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 10: One of the singers that she really liked was Linda Ronstadt, 324 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 10: who you know, did a lot of like rock and 325 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 10: jazz and country. You're like, you're no good, You're no good, 326 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 10: you know or whatever? How does it go? 327 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 2: I don't know that song? 328 00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 10: Oh yeah, you do? You just I just am not 329 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 10: singing yet. So if you didn't know Antonia and be 330 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 10: like certainly did not know this, But Linda ron said, 331 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 10: is part of Mexican I. 332 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 7: Heard my father talking about Linda ronstatsare. 333 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 10: So this was Linda Ronstadt's album of ranchetta music, and 334 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 10: it was sort of like Rondstats coming out as as 335 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 10: a Mexican, right like you heyes, all thought I was 336 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 10: this cool like hit white girl actually a Mexican too. 337 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 7: And it piqued my interest and I sought it out. 338 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 7: I remember going and finding the CD and listening in secret, 339 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 7: and I loved the music so antonia. 340 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 10: This is this is an album concuna think about it 341 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 10: as an album that starts in like this really depressing 342 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 10: place with Ronstatt singing about this love who's left a 343 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 10: bitter pain in her life. 344 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 8: She goes. 345 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 10: She says, poor me, it would be better if this 346 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 10: life would just end because of that love. I've cried 347 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 10: tears of blood straight straight from my heart. 348 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,479 Speaker 2: I give it a Mardi Gadio mia. 349 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 3: Like more than that. 350 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 10: So here's the thing. Okay, Remember how b said that 351 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 10: when her family would listen to all these songs, she 352 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 10: never understood why they'd get so so emotional. Well, the 353 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,239 Speaker 10: thing about Linda Ronstats conci by the day was that 354 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 10: in the liner notes she had the Spanish lyrics, but 355 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 10: then she also had them translated in English, and so 356 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 10: Bee was following along as she was listening to these songs, 357 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 10: and she actually like could understand what ron Stett was 358 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 10: singing about right. 359 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 7: For the first time. That connection and the stories, the 360 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 7: the passion, it really it struck me deeply. It was 361 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 7: this idea of this, this is why people sing in 362 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 7: that manner, this is why it's over the top, this 363 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 7: is uh, it's real life. 364 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 10: So B says that gmciana's any by that planted this, 365 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 10: you know seed and it became her gateway, you know, 366 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 10: to to Dancheta music. But also did like sort of 367 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 10: start exploring her Mexican culture, her identity, her background, her 368 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 10: family's past. She went online and she started getting translations 369 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 10: for all these song lyrics. 370 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 2: So did she actually ever cry listening to Ron She. 371 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 10: Does, yeah, yeah, And she actually told me about about 372 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,239 Speaker 10: the very first time she went out with with her 373 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 10: friend to listen to ranchettas from from the jukebox at 374 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 10: the bar near near their college. 375 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 7: And as the night wore on, as the beers were 376 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 7: consumed and feeling this love for our culture, are people 377 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 7: for being Mexican, so be that's when the tears start flowing. 378 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 7: It's hard to describe tears feeling like like a release, 379 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 7: like like baptism via tears, if. 380 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 10: You will, since then you know, be says, She's cried 381 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 10: countless times listening to Das. She's gonna huge collection on 382 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,719 Speaker 10: her phone that she listens to in her car and 383 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 10: cries and cries and family parties. Now when her dad 384 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 10: puts on the ranchetas like he always has there in 385 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 10: her entire life. Now she gets up with him and 386 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 10: her uncle and they just like built them out together, 387 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 10: and b knows what she's singing about, right, Yeah, she 388 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 10: like finally knows. 389 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 2: Okay. 390 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 4: So the cultural power of tears is pretty undeniable. But 391 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 4: just because Latinos are like culturally obsessed with tears, does 392 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 4: that translate to literal tears? Are Latinos in fact crying more? 393 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 4: Or at least this random group of six Latinos I 394 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 4: tracked for two weeks. Before I give the results, I 395 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 4: just want to remind everyone that this is not a 396 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 4: scientific study. It's so unscientific that all the participants were 397 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 4: friends of friends. But the reason I did that was 398 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 4: because to me, this was less about gathering data and 399 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 4: more about being able to call someone up and have 400 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 4: an honest conversation about why they did or did not cry, 401 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 4: and also to tell them the truth that I was 402 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 4: not tracking their caffeine intake. So, without further ado the results, 403 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 4: Latinas by and far cried more than any other group. 404 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: So you were right, right, And I'm kind of like 405 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: a little sad about that too. 406 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 2: I don't I mean, I don't know if I was right. 407 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 4: It just it does it would mirror this idea that 408 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 4: Latinos cry more. Of the three Latinas who participated in 409 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 4: the survey, one did not cry at all, another cried 410 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 4: on four days, and the third woman cried eleven times 411 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 4: during two weeks. 412 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: Okay, how's it going. 413 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 11: It's going well, thank you. 414 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 4: And so I called up Joanna Floorties, a therapist in 415 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 4: Los Angeles, to talk to her about her experience during 416 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 4: the survey. I wasn't actually measuring your caffeine intake. Oh no, 417 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 4: I was measuring your crying habits. Yah. 418 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 11: Yeah, I thought that was an interesting thing to be on. 419 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 2: There, and you, in particular cried the most out of anyone. 420 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 11: I was going through. I'm going I was going through 421 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 11: a breakup. I'm sorry, it's okay, it's a lot, a 422 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 11: big deal. And then the other thing is I think 423 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 11: I'm really comfortable with crying. 424 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 12: Yeah. 425 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 11: I think it's like, uh, and it's a way to 426 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 11: manage your feelings and emotions. And for me, crying is 427 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 11: safe and I get it out of my system and 428 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 11: I process it and then I move on. 429 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, so you think, do you think it has more 430 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 4: to do with you being a therapist than with you 431 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 4: being Latina? 432 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 11: Yeah, well, I think it's a little bit of both. 433 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 11: I think as a Latina I emote more well. 434 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 4: Latinas were the ones that cried at the highest rates. 435 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 4: Not one of the Latino men cried during these two 436 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 4: weeks I measured interestingly. 437 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: You know, in my household, I saw my dad cry. 438 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 2: Once in your whole life. 439 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: Well, when he got older and had Alzheimer's then you know, 440 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: then he would cry. Yeah, but as a as a 441 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: grown man, only once. 442 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 9: I called it. 443 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 4: Bernesto Luca, a Peruvian man who lives in New York 444 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 4: City and works in advertising, To ask him why he 445 00:25:58,320 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 4: didn't cry. 446 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 12: I usually cry when it's like really really extreme, like 447 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 12: when somebody passes away, or when frustration is just like 448 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 12: impossible to handle. But yeah, I'm not that much of 449 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 12: a crier, I guess. 450 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 4: So the whole segment is I'm asking the question do 451 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 4: Latinos cry more? 452 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: And what would you? What do you think? 453 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 12: I don't know. I guess it depends on your upbringing. 454 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 12: And I guess also as boys, like we grew up 455 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 12: being told that we're not supposed to cry. You know, 456 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 12: you were told that learning yodang. So I guess it's 457 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 12: part of that. And I guess it it's also the 458 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 12: reason why when we drink we get so affectionate. It's 459 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 12: because we're like repressing those feelings and we need something 460 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 12: to like, you know, liberate us. 461 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 4: And so you grew up in Peru, Yes, And do 462 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 4: you feel, for instance, that there were different pressures there 463 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 4: than here. 464 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 12: Yes, certainly. I went to an old boys Catholic school, 465 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 12: and now that I look back, I kind of feel 466 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 12: bad for all the guys that later on came out 467 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 12: as gay because they told those soul sorts afforable things 468 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 12: about being gay. And I'm not sure, I mean, at 469 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 12: least not in New York. Boys grow up with that 470 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 12: kind of pressure about like the masculinity and stuff like. 471 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 4: That onto the nun nad knows who I surveyed. The 472 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 4: two white women cried a handful of times, and the 473 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 4: African American woman didn't cry at all. The Asian man 474 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 4: I surveyed didn't cry once during the two weeks. Well, 475 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 4: the two Caucasian ones did. Tommy McNamara, who was a 476 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 4: stand up comedian and also lives in New York City, 477 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 4: is the last person I spoke to to get some 478 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 4: more insight on the survey. Okay, so I have to 479 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 4: admit something to you, which is this wasn't a caffeine survey. 480 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 11: WHOA, I'm shocked. 481 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I no, what was it we were studying crying tears? 482 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 8: Oh? 483 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 13: Okay, did I cry? 484 00:27:59,520 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 3: You did? 485 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 13: I did once. I don't even remember what it was. 486 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 2: I think you cried more than once. 487 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 13: Oh no, it's been a tough year. Like maybe it 488 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 13: was the day I saw a lady bird or something, 489 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 13: or maybe there was like one day Christmas Eve where 490 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 13: I was like really stressed out about travel and I'd 491 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 13: like messed my family's Christmas Eve party because my flight 492 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 13: got delayed. So I was like, maybe that was it. 493 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 2: Do you remember crying? 494 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 13: I don't specifically, but I can see that happening. 495 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 3: You know what I mean? 496 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: So you don't feel like you cry often. 497 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 13: Actually, I if I had to guess, I would say 498 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 13: it was like two to three times a year. 499 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 2: Even though you cried like three times strength. 500 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 13: But that's also probably me protecting what I want, thinking 501 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 13: that I'm John Wayne. 502 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 2: The truth is, I'm not a scientist. I'm a journalist. 503 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 4: But there is one thing that scientists and journalists have 504 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 4: in common, and that's that we start our work. 505 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 2: We always start with a question. 506 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 4: And maybe the reason I'm not getting exact answers is 507 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 4: because I'm asking the wrong question. I started doing these 508 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 4: weird crying experiments because I was going through a hard 509 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 4: time and I wanted to feel better and I wanted 510 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 4: to feel comforted. And the truth is is that after 511 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 4: I cry, I do tend to feel better. And so 512 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 4: maybe the better question is why is that? Even Professor 513 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 4: Lutts told me that in the first example of crying 514 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 4: that he found, there is proof that crying is associated 515 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 4: with soothing. 516 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 8: And the shard reads she continued weeping, saving herself with tears, 517 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 8: drinking of them like wine, and that for me was 518 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 8: a kind of a real moment of revelation, because I thought, Wow, 519 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 8: this is the earliest tears we can find represented and 520 00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 8: they're already talking about tears not as simply more learning, 521 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 8: but tears as a form of pleasure of auto intoxication. 522 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 4: Before I did my fake caffeine survey, you and I 523 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 4: had started sort of like our own experiment a couple 524 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 4: of years back. 525 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: Right, And actually it was a particularly challenging and sad 526 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: year for me. Three of the people closest to me 527 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: we were actually dying. My father, my best friend Cecilia 528 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: of Iceman, who actually was your professor in college and 529 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: who introduced you to us, and my very best friend 530 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: cousin Maritire. So I was crying a lot that year. 531 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 4: Every time you cried, you would send me a voice memo, 532 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 4: and I just like, wonder if you remember that time 533 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 4: and what you remember of it? 534 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: Kind I'm getting all TV, I swear, Oh my god. 535 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 9: So this was one of the times when I have 536 00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 9: cried the most intensely. I'm gonna have to go to 537 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 9: Mexico immediately, and it's just the realization that he's really 538 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 9: I don't know, it is last days, weeks, months, months, 539 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 9: for sure. Tonight I had to cry with my whole family, 540 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 9: with my husband holding me, and then my daughter holded me. 541 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 9: It's like, oh God, it was so terrible and it 542 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 9: was so uncontrollable. It was like this all the time, 543 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 9: all the time. Whew, It's not like this all the time, 544 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 9: as you can see. What I've learned now is to 545 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 9: also stop it. 546 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 4: You know, we've been talking all this time about like 547 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 4: latinos cry all this time all the time. 548 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 2: That year was not normal. It was not a normal 549 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 2: year for you. 550 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 4: Like listening to the memos, it became really evident to 551 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 4: me that you were going through something. There is one 552 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 4: study that Professor Lutz told me about that I think 553 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 4: is really relevant to the experience that you had. 554 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 8: So if you think of any emotional experience as something 555 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 8: which takes us from homeostasis, our normal, steady state, gets 556 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 8: us all worked up so that where our heart rate 557 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 8: goes up, our our pulse goes up. Eventually, whatever that 558 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 8: emotional experience is, that it doesn't last forever. It goes up, 559 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 8: and then eventually it comes a bit back down and 560 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 8: we reach homeostasis again. And there are a number of 561 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 8: studies that tried to figure out when exactly tears start 562 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 8: in that process. The majority of them showed that the 563 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 8: tears start after the peak of that physiological experience, and 564 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 8: therefore kind of makes sense that we associate tears with 565 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 8: feeling better. 566 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: That's so scientific but so fascinating. 567 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 4: Well, I think that for you, crying was like you 568 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 4: trying to get back to normal. 569 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, I was not prepared for you to 570 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: be dropping like I kind of So basically what you're 571 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: saying is that me going into this you know, tearful 572 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: state that lasted months upon months upon months, was actually 573 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: me trying to get back to normal faster. 574 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 6: Yeah. 575 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 4: I really think that that is what happenednknk. 576 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: The kind of continual crying and the allowing myself to 577 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: cry was in a way a gift. I guess that 578 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: these three last loved ones of mine meet Papa Prima, Maritira, 579 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: my my cousin Maritire, and then my best friend Cecilia, 580 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: it was almost like they were like, we're gonna this 581 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: is gonna be really tough, but what it's going to 582 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: help you do is to get to the other side faster, 583 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: and you're gonna need that. I didn't want to be 584 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: in a perpetual state of mourning because it can go 585 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: on forever and it can really be, it can be 586 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: all encompassing. 587 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 4: Even if Latinos don't cry more than any other group, 588 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 4: which at this point is like who knows. I take 589 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 4: immense comfort in knowing that all of us, Latino or otherwise, 590 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 4: we have this ability to do this thing which could 591 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 4: seem crazy, like why do why does water fall out 592 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 4: of eyeballs? 593 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 2: That's like a. 594 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 4: Weird thing, but it has this power of letting us 595 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 4: know like, oh, you're going back to a place where 596 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 4: you will feel normal, and that in and of itself 597 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 4: is just such a comforting thought to me. 598 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 2: And thank you for going on this journey of tears 599 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 2: with me. 600 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: I feel like I've learned so much and I'm I'm 601 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,720 Speaker 1: okay with crying. I'm still okay with crying. I'm actually 602 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 1: better with crying now than maybe when we started, although 603 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: I'm really happy to not be crying a lot. 604 00:34:47,000 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 3: Thank you, Antoinia. 605 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Antonia se Lejuido. It was 606 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: edited by Nadia Raymond and mixed by Stephanie Lebau. Latino 607 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,720 Speaker 1: USA is produced by Andrea Loquez, Cruzado, Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, 608 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: Victoria Strada and Rinaldo Leanoz Junior, with help from Jordi 609 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: mar Marquez. Our senior engineer is Julia Caruso. For marketing 610 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: managers Luis Luna. Our theme music was composed by Zee Rubinos, 611 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: I'm your host and executive producer Marienno Jossan. Join us 612 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: again on the next episode. In the meantime, see you 613 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: on social media. Acuerdaemosill la brox jao. 614 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 14: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Annie 615 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 14: Casey Foundation, creates a brighter future for the nation's children 616 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 14: by strengthening families, building greater economic opportunity, and transforming communities, 617 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 14: and the Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the front 618 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 14: lines of social change worldwide. Funding for Latino USA's coverage 619 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 14: of a culture of Health is made possible in part 620 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,760 Speaker 14: by a grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. 621 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 3: Are you okay? 622 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 2: Am I okay?