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Speaker 1: It could happen here is the podcast that This is

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Speaker 1: where we talk about things that are happening here. Generally

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Speaker 1: things fallen apart um, sometimes things getting put back together.

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Speaker 1: Today we have a story that I wasn't sure if

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Speaker 1: we were ever going to cover. Um. In brief, we're

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Speaker 1: going to be talking about a group called Black Hammer

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Speaker 1: that is, on its surface, a leftist anti colonial political organization. Um,

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Speaker 1: and a reality is more or less occult. Um. The

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Speaker 1: reason we're talking about them is that someone is now

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Speaker 1: dead connected with them. The story is interesting and messy

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Speaker 1: and says a lot about the way social media works

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Speaker 1: today and the way that the United States is essentially

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Speaker 1: like forty different cults in a trench coat. Um. So Uh,

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Speaker 1: today I'm here with James Stout and we are talking

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Speaker 1: with journalist W. F. Thomas. H Thomas. What do you?

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Speaker 1: What do you? What do you? What do you? How?

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Speaker 1: How are you doing today? Uh? Today is a day, Um.

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Speaker 1: This story is stuff is still coming out. About an

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Speaker 1: hour ago, charges were finally posted um for the cult leader. Um.

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Speaker 1: But that's further along. Yeah, the story. If you hear

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Speaker 1: chirping in the background, those are for live chickens. So

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Speaker 1: my apologies all little babies. I just got rabbits that

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Speaker 1: I have now living in my my chicken facility, and

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Speaker 1: they seem to be thriving. It's nice. I like having

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Speaker 1: little animals around all Right, So who are Black Hammer

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Speaker 1: and how did how did they get to the present position?

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Speaker 1: So I think we should probably start of like nineteen right,

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Speaker 1: is kind of when these these folks sort of start

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Speaker 1: to come on the scene. Yeah, Um, you know you

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Speaker 1: could take this story back a lot further. Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: do that. Um. So, sometime in the late eighties, Um

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Speaker 1: Augustus Romaine Jr. Was born. Um, this is the person

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Speaker 1: we're commonly known as Gazikazo. Um they used they then

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Speaker 1: pronouns who would go on to be the leader of

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Speaker 1: this group. Um. Cazo grew up in Stone Mountain outside

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Speaker 1: of Atlanta, UM and in the early had kind of

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Speaker 1: a lifestyle blogger YouTube thing going on. Um was a

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Speaker 1: self professed Cosmos biggest fan and generally seemed like they

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Speaker 1: were trying to get famous, Yeah, like in fluencers style famous. Right.

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Speaker 1: This was not at all political at this period. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And UM, that's gonna be kind of the red thread

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Speaker 1: through this story is Caso. I'm gonna refer to them

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Speaker 1: as CASO. I guess this remained junior. Um. Wanting to

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Speaker 1: be famous is kind of, unfortunately the main thing that

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Speaker 1: drives most of what has happened. UM. At some point,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the mid um Cardso took this turn

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Speaker 1: and started making more incendiary videos. UM. I don't have

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Speaker 1: them directly in front of me, so I don't want

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Speaker 1: to misquote them. UM, but kind of like going out

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Speaker 1: pushing this concept like white people are evil, going for

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Speaker 1: this very specific type of leftism, and um Ghazi Carso

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Speaker 1: gets taken taken under the wing of and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: mispronounce this name uh O'Malley yesh hella UM. And this

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Speaker 1: is a person who is leading a group in St. Petersburg,

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Speaker 1: Florida called the African People's Socialist Party UM and Africans

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Speaker 1: People Socialist Party. It was part of this larger thing

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Speaker 1: called the Huru Solidarity movement. I don't know if they're

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Speaker 1: still around, but you know their their ideology was their

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Speaker 1: world communism, African internationalism, that type of thing. And what

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Speaker 1: is let's talk a little bit about the word of Huru,

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Speaker 1: because that's something if you if you've ever been in

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Speaker 1: and around Proud Boys. First off, I'm sorry, it's not

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Speaker 1: a fun experience generally, but they like to shout at

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Speaker 1: huru UM, and I understand that that's kind of related

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Speaker 1: one way or they outed the other to this. Yeah, so, UM,

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Speaker 1: I don't have it directly in front of me what

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Speaker 1: or huru means. But you know the reason probably say

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Speaker 1: that is because of Gazi Cadzo. There are times several

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Speaker 1: times when Codso spoke made appearances with Gavin Mcinness, founder

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Speaker 1: of the Proud Boys, and Carso generally became and still

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Speaker 1: is treated as a loll cow UM kind of this

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Speaker 1: target for derision to poke at to see what is

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Speaker 1: this person doing which is still happening right now. Unfortunately, UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, Carzo rose through the ranks of this group

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Speaker 1: UM and then eventually found out that this is basically

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Speaker 1: a cult. The African People's Socialist Party UM had a

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Speaker 1: specific focus on membership from colonized people, people of color, UM.

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Speaker 1: But it turns out this was being steered entirely by

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Speaker 1: a group of white people. So it's out of the

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Speaker 1: ashes of this experience, this abusive experience UM, this Coli group, cause,

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Speaker 1: along with some other people leave this group and they

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Speaker 1: go onto for a Black Hammer in February of two

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Speaker 1: thousand nineteen, which the originally was the Black Hammer Organization UM.

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Speaker 1: And there's some really good write ups, especially read Voice

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Speaker 1: definitely recommend that and there are I think you broke

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Speaker 1: out for a second. So the title of that article

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Speaker 1: is the Devil Wears a Dashiki. It's like six seven parts,

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Speaker 1: but it's really good conference and that gets into a

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Speaker 1: lot of what's wry to get a lot of this

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Speaker 1: information from UM. And there were additionally, what would happen

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Speaker 1: to some of these people who founded this group Black

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Speaker 1: Hammer Organization who are also parts of the African People's

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Speaker 1: Socialist Party UM would disavow ghazi kads that would disabout

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Speaker 1: Black Hammer and have kind of their own statement about

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Speaker 1: here's what happened, you know, and which they say, Hey,

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Speaker 1: we never recovered from this experience in this traumatic group,

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Speaker 1: in this cult like group, and instead went on to

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Speaker 1: found this new one, and we're very you know, it

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Speaker 1: was kind of failed from the start to become this

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Speaker 1: other cult like group. So just to clarify on the

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Speaker 1: hurry thing that it comes from the African People's Socialist Party, right,

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Speaker 1: and then he's they have taken it and run with

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Speaker 1: it in the Black Hammer organization. So the African People's

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Speaker 1: Socialist Party was part of this umbrella or group called

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Speaker 1: the who Solidarity Movement. This group is still around if

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Speaker 1: you look at like the Channel five with Andrew Callahan

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Speaker 1: has a video where they go to this march for

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Speaker 1: reparations and that group is the WHU Solidarity Movement. Got it?

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Speaker 1: Okay if you're familiar with that. Yeah, yeah, so we

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Speaker 1: get this organization founded and kind of from what my

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Speaker 1: perusal of because I've also you can go to their website.

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Speaker 1: Black Hammer has like a news site. Um, they are

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Speaker 1: kind of building huh oh yeah, yeah, they're they're kind

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Speaker 1: of for now. Yeah. They bill themselves as like an

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Speaker 1: anti colonial organization that is specifically like, um, like one

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Speaker 1: of the things they do is they have like a

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Speaker 1: white people's auxiliary that like is for the purpose of

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Speaker 1: people paying reparations. Um. They have you know, they carried

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Speaker 1: out a couple of actual direct actions during including like

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Speaker 1: handing out masks and whatnot. Um. But for the most part,

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Speaker 1: they seem to exist primarily to drive attention to themselves

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Speaker 1: and thus donations via social media. And yeah, that that's

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Speaker 1: that's I think if you've, if you've personally interacted with

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Speaker 1: Blackhammer propaganda at all, it is probably because you've seen

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Speaker 1: someone on the internet talking about how Anne Frank Uh

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Speaker 1: is a Karen or something like that. Yeah, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about that. Yeah yeah. So, so I want to touch

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Speaker 1: on something real quick that you mentioned, you know, in

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Speaker 1: these comments from the people who found the organization, left

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Speaker 1: the organization, these were these are still true believers who

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Speaker 1: believe in this cause of de colonialization of African internationalism

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Speaker 1: and who do want to build a better world and

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Speaker 1: do good things. Um. You know, in talking with people

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Speaker 1: have survived the cold, it sounds like Causo probably never

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Speaker 1: was a true believer, but there weren't true believers around

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Speaker 1: Causo who believed in this cause. Um. And because about

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Speaker 1: we're able to be abused, to be profoundly abused by

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Speaker 1: Carso and the people working directly under Canso Casos behest

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Speaker 1: um So April twenty in a tweet I believe Uh,

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Speaker 1: Caso calls and Frank Becky follows up by how she's

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Speaker 1: a Karen, which one is a ridiculous statement, two is

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Speaker 1: entirely meant to cause this kind of uproar around that

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Speaker 1: you know, um, back at this time there was acceptance

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Speaker 1: of the Black Hammer organization in leftist circles, in that

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Speaker 1: kind of online communist community. Um, and there were people

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Speaker 1: who came out kind of like, oh no, let's hear

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Speaker 1: what they're saying about this, you know, talking about how victims.

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Speaker 1: You know, the term genocide was invented to describe the Holocaust,

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Speaker 1: but that term wasn't used to describe slavery that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing, which, to be clear, is not the conversation

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Speaker 1: that Caso was trying to have. That was not No,

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Speaker 1: and that is a worthwhile conversation to have, is like why,

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Speaker 1: you know, like why is that not? Why is the

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Speaker 1: the enslavement and like mass murder of a huge number

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Speaker 1: of African people not seen as an act of genocide?

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Speaker 1: Certainly a valid conversation to have, but also should not

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Speaker 1: at all intersect with Anne Frank or how we think

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Speaker 1: about the Holocaust. Yeah, and because we're living in health Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this fake you know, kind of propped up, not a

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Speaker 1: real discussion. It's meant to just piss people off. Is

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Speaker 1: back again? Oh good, what a great time. Yeah. Based

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Speaker 1: on documents that have come out that are purported to

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Speaker 1: be from internal Black Hammer documents. This is part of

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Speaker 1: their operations Storm of White Tears UM, which was seemingly

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Speaker 1: this and again I don't know for sure if these

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Speaker 1: documents are from them, but these documents that are purported

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Speaker 1: to be from Black Hammer UM lay out this strategy

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Speaker 1: to cause division too, kind of bring other groups down,

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Speaker 1: to elevate Black Hammer's own status by putting themselves as

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Speaker 1: the center of attention in all of this that is

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Speaker 1: happening UM, in this online fiasco UM. Because again, the

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Speaker 1: ideology is not the point. The attention is the point.

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Speaker 1: The control is the point. Along this way, there's there's

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Speaker 1: you know, there are a lot of allegations out there.

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Speaker 1: There are you know, for example, allegations that false, false

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Speaker 1: allegations of pedophilia and sexual assault were used against people

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Speaker 1: who left the group, people who spoke about against the group,

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Speaker 1: that they were recruiting people on tinder. Um. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: along the way, some more chapters form. UM. There's one

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Speaker 1: believe near Aurora, Colorado, or at least in Colorado. There's

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Speaker 1: a New York City one, and kind of the group

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Speaker 1: continues to rise as almost you know, you know, your

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Speaker 1: typical revolutionary communist cell that we have wait a few

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Speaker 1: of in the United States going on right now. Um,

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Speaker 1: they structure, they purport to structure themselves around the tenets

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Speaker 1: of democratic centralism as some of these other groups do. Um,

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Speaker 1: which to dump things down a lot, and there's probably

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Speaker 1: gonna be left is screaming at me right now. Um.

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Speaker 1: Was this idea from lenin where a group takes a

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Speaker 1: vote and then if that vote passes, they all agree

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Speaker 1: to go along with that platform with usually about fium

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Speaker 1: so that there's not kind of the splitting off of faction.

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Speaker 1: So it can lead to this very centralized and hierarchical

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Speaker 1: control structure. That's certainly what happened in Black Hammer. Um.

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Speaker 1: There are other democratic centrals groups that have been in

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Speaker 1: the news lately who use a similar strategy. UM. But

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Speaker 1: you know what this meant is it allowed God cause

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Speaker 1: it allowed Codso to run this group with an iron fist. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, on paper, there were there was a group

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Speaker 1: of people leading the group. Um, someone else was in

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Speaker 1: control of the money, but in fact it was Carso

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Speaker 1: controlling all of this. Um. They also had you know,

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Speaker 1: shared living spaces where members of different chapters of Black

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Speaker 1: Hammer lived Hammer houses. UM. And that's always going to end, well, yeah, don't. Generally,

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Speaker 1: it's a good rule not to go live with the

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Speaker 1: revolutionary cell you just joined. Yeah. If if you are

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Speaker 1: joining a political party and they want everyone to live

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Speaker 1: in the same space that is controlled by that political organization,

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Speaker 1: you may in fact be joining a cult. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: you know, there's there continues to be kind of trying

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Speaker 1: to get more attention. At one point, you know, Caso

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Speaker 1: starts beef with a local anti fascist crew in Colorado.

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Speaker 1: You know, another thing to mention about this group is

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of queer people in the group. You know,

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Speaker 1: Gauzi identifies as non binary. There are you know, several

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Speaker 1: many members who love people of the same sex. And

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that happens as Gauzi

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Speaker 1: is beefing with the local anti fascist crew is something

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Speaker 1: that people are probably thinking of when they hear the

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Speaker 1: name Gazzi Kozo. Is this bizarre video of Cazo running

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Speaker 1: around in joker makeup talking about white anarchists and anti fascists,

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Speaker 1: which the background is actually even more funked up than

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Speaker 1: you would I think, having just heard that, UM as

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Speaker 1: outline Red Voice goes into this specifically, UM there were

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Speaker 1: members of the group who were you know, practitioners of

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Speaker 1: Yoruba um, an African religion. Um. And one of them

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Speaker 1: was a trained Um I don't know the correct term,

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Speaker 1: so I'm just gonna say practitioner of this religion had

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Speaker 1: gone through an education process in that that took some time. Um.

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Speaker 1: And this video of Gazi running around and joker makeup

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Speaker 1: was Gazie's idea too. Channel the ddsume and my apologies

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Speaker 1: on mispronounced now which is a Guroba deity you know. Um.

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Speaker 1: And before this happened, apparently Gazi had brought this up

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Speaker 1: to the person and the person said that is extremely

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Speaker 1: disrespectful of my religion. Don't do that, and Gazi did

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Speaker 1: it anyway. Um. And this is you know, another one

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Speaker 1: of the things where this gets sent around all the time,

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Speaker 1: as you know, treating Black Hammer as a loll cow.

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Speaker 1: But you know, even as this was going on, there

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Speaker 1: was this abuse that was going on as well and

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Speaker 1: people being preyed upon by this group in black Ham

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Speaker 1: announces that they are planning to build Hammer City, which

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Speaker 1: is supposed to be this utopian settlement in the rockies. Um,

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Speaker 1: you look like you have something you want to say, Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean look there. It's a perfectly normal dream to

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Speaker 1: want to build a utopian settlement and the Rockies. There's

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Speaker 1: some downsides to that. One of them is that the

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Speaker 1: Rockies is actually a terrible place for a large number

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Speaker 1: of people to live. Um. And it this is why repeatedly,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, there's been a lot of utopian settlements

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Speaker 1: out in that part of the world, and they don't

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Speaker 1: tend to last very long or they turn into normal towns.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's it's always interesting when folks try, when

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Speaker 1: folks want to do a commune type situation, and then

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Speaker 1: they immediately go for a place like that, because like

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Speaker 1: the mountains is the hardest place to do it if

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Speaker 1: you want to have a self sufficient commune, like fucking Kansas,

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Speaker 1: you know, Arkansas, like somewhere where the soil is good

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Speaker 1: for growing stuff and you can get like a flat

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Speaker 1: track tract of land that can grow food as opposed

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Speaker 1: to high alpine elevations where very little is gone. Anyway, whatever,

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Speaker 1: this is compound talk, um. So yeah, there's there's If

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Speaker 1: there's one thing you take away from this episode, don't

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Speaker 1: build your compound in the Rockies. Don't build a compound

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Speaker 1: in the rockies. Look, Okay, that's all I got. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a message this podcast unless you have

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Speaker 1: the tenaceous unicorn ranch, which case go right ahead. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then you gotta think you know what they're doing,

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Speaker 1: which is raising alpaca as opposed to relying on like

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Speaker 1: growing crops, which makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: didn't actually see any advanced I was just looking at

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Speaker 1: their at the Hammer City website. If they just told

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Speaker 1: they just say sustainable farming, I can't see advanced plans

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Speaker 1: for press went any they did raise a hundred and

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Speaker 1: twelve thousand dollars so yeah, according to their website, they

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Speaker 1: raised dred and twelve thousand dollars so far. Okay, yeah, educated,

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Speaker 1: that's more on this project. Yeah, really interested to know

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Speaker 1: how much money they actually raised. Um, maybe it was

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Speaker 1: that much. The point is we don't really know because

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Speaker 1: there's no there was no kind of an open record

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Speaker 1: keeping within this group. Um. And it was Cazo who

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Speaker 1: was in control of the money. So the group found

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Speaker 1: land to buy, and they actually began the process of

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Speaker 1: a land deal in early they and and this is

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Speaker 1: some information now coming from a fantastic Colorado Sun article

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Speaker 1: about the whole Hammer City thing um that I also

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Speaker 1: recommend if someone wants to read more in depth about this. So,

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Speaker 1: as the land deal was in the process of going through,

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Speaker 1: a portion of the group moved out there. So about

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Speaker 1: two dozen people. This was. This wasn't you know, it

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Speaker 1: was remote, but it was it on top of a mountain.

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Speaker 1: This was in a subdivision that had parcels for sale,

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Speaker 1: which leads to some problems. And this this is a

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Speaker 1: subdivision with the homeowners association and strict limits on land

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Speaker 1: use as well. So they didn't have water rights for

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Speaker 1: one thing, Yeah, exactly, they didn't have water rights to

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Speaker 1: land um which I have not started compound, but I

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Speaker 1: imagine water rice is something you want to have figured

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Speaker 1: out if you if you just want to live on

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Speaker 1: a plot of land in the middle of nowhere, it

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Speaker 1: can be fine. If you want to grow crops, then yeah,

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Speaker 1: having the ability to irrigate said crops is kind of important. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So another thing at this time is black Hammer tends

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Speaker 1: to be a pretty heavily armed group. You know, the

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Speaker 1: group moved out to this land, they were camping out there,

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Speaker 1: basically squatting on the land that they did not own,

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Speaker 1: and brought their you know, armed security along with them. UM.

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Speaker 1: And we're also like blocking road access for residents of

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Speaker 1: the subdivision. UM. So they they had neighbors, you know

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Speaker 1: and UM. At one point this leads to an altercation

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Speaker 1: with a neighbor UM with three armed Black Hammer members UM.

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Speaker 1: And a neighbor driving in his car who you know,

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Speaker 1: according to this Colorado Sun article, gets out with an

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Speaker 1: unloaded shotgun and there's a standoff. This could have been

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Speaker 1: one of those things that went really bad. It went

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Speaker 1: about as good as you can hope a situation like

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Speaker 1: that can go where um, nobody got killed. UM. But

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Speaker 1: while this was happening, the member of Black Hammer who

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Speaker 1: was responsible for the land deal I forgot to sign

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Speaker 1: or didn't sign the paperwork on time. UM. And after

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Speaker 1: information comes out about the standoff, the land deal completely

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Speaker 1: falls through. There is no Hammers Toby that is going

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Speaker 1: to be built. UM. And cadso was maintaining in Black

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Speaker 1: Hammer as a whole, is maintaining a superactive social media

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Speaker 1: presence at this time as well. So you know. One

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Speaker 1: of the other things that gets brought out is like

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Speaker 1: this video of them talking about, oh, we built this

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Speaker 1: bridge on our land, which is kind of a bunch

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Speaker 1: of two I force across the ditch. Yeah. Are they

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Speaker 1: planning to buy um in invent as like an organization

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Speaker 1: or as cards? Are planning to by themselves? Just an

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Speaker 1: individual between know? They? This is actually something I did

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Speaker 1: some research on. UM. They did this fun thing. They

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Speaker 1: created a front group, a front organization to buy the

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Speaker 1: land nice which they called Hammerstone Industries Incorporated. Yeah, it's stealthy.

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Speaker 1: They one of the member, one of the prominent members,

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Speaker 1: was responsible for that. So power of Google. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: also found their bitcoin what what we were talking? And

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Speaker 1: it has never had any donations and remains empty. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god. Yeah, that has it gone well? Ah? So

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Speaker 1: after this land deal falls through, hammer City is not

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Speaker 1: being built. A lot of people get really fucking piste. Also,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like they shot through the real estate sign

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Speaker 1: on their way out of the Stuff division. So on

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Speaker 1: the seventeenth, when the group leaves hammer City. UM. So,

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Speaker 1: going back to what Robert mentioned earlier, UM, the group

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Speaker 1: took a very i'll say interesting approach when the COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen started UM, which is the belief that COVID nineteen

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Speaker 1: is real, that people should wear masks and be protected,

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Speaker 1: but that they should not take the vaccine, and that

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Speaker 1: fought Fauci was a liar, which comes out a bit later.

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Speaker 1: So we're doing for example, there's a there's a news

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Speaker 1: article and with the video of them doing mutual aid

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Speaker 1: distribution of masks and food in Colorado. So lots of

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Speaker 1: people are really fucking pissed. UM. When Hammer City falls through,

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Speaker 1: there's also been you know, these allegations that have been

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Speaker 1: coming up again and again. UM. And at this point,

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Speaker 1: several chapters break apart from Black Camera, UM, break away

359
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Speaker 1: from Caso and kind of go off and do their

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Speaker 1: own thing. UM. And Caso is left with this core

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Speaker 1: group of members UM kind of true believers and says,

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Speaker 1: fuck it, We're moving to Atlanta. So the group does

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Speaker 1: a marathon drive from Colorado to the southern suburbs of

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Speaker 1: Atlanta and outside of Atlantas where cause that grew up

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Speaker 1: on the east side, UM, from the northeast. UM. And

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Speaker 1: they they keep going. They rent a house where everyone

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Speaker 1: lives together, another one of their Hammer houses. I believe

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Speaker 1: that this time there is another active chapter that is

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Speaker 1: still connected with CADSO and the Carolinas as well. UM.

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Speaker 1: But you know this is a when prophecy fails moment

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Speaker 1: for Causo UM, and the people that are left behind

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Speaker 1: are these true believers UM and conser doesn't take this well,

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Speaker 1: It doesn't take the failure of this deal well, becomes

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Speaker 1: even more paranoid than they already were, more controlling and

375
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Speaker 1: more abusive than they already were. So there's the red

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Speaker 1: Voice gets into some of the really wild allegations that

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Speaker 1: come out at this time. Allegedly CAUSO has members sign

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Speaker 1: over um control of the bank accounts to them at gunpoint,

379
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Speaker 1: as people reveal personal information at gunpoint. And again these

380
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Speaker 1: are allegations. I'm not saying GODSA did this, UM that

381
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Speaker 1: we get some of these classic cult techniques coming out,

382
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Speaker 1: forcing people to sit and listen to CASO kind of preach,

383
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Speaker 1: having people constantly working, not getting enough to eat, um,

384
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Speaker 1: having you know, love bombing where God where Caso makes

385
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Speaker 1: you know, deep eye contract with the person, talks about

386
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Speaker 1: how important they are, how much they love them, and

387
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: the consumption of psychedelics as well. Cool, that's good. Yeah, yeah,

388
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Speaker 1: you love to hear that. Um. Yeah, just a bunch

389
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Speaker 1: of heavily armed people being cops for each other and

390
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: drugging each other in support of I don't know. Charismatics

391
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: seems like a weird word for Ghazi, but it must be, right, Like,

392
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Speaker 1: clearly it works on some people. Yeah, I think they

393
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: think they are charismatic, right, Like, I don't think it's

394
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Speaker 1: necessarily they are to be good to be charismatic. But no,

395
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Speaker 1: some people seem to be responding to their I don't know,

396
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Speaker 1: the way they present themselves. It's so I guess that's

397
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: always the way with cults, right that, Like, to the outside,

398
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: the cult leader is always an obvious cult leader, but

399
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Speaker 1: everybody's got different things they're vulnerable to, and for some

400
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 1: people that's well. And I also, I said, I think

401
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: a lot of it is they have like presented themselves

402
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: differently in different periods and them I think from what

403
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 1: I've been reading, it sounds like a decent chunk of

404
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: the folks who were kind of most deeply wrapped up

405
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: and it have been with it for a while, so

406
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: they've kind of followed along with Ghazi as they've you know. Yeah,

407
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: and this is a group that preyed upon young people,

408
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: preyed upon queer people, preyed upon on a housed people,

409
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: preyed upon people of color who are at the intersections

410
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: you know of oppression in our society, um and discreet.

411
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,959
Speaker 1: Like most cults, it offered them a cause, a purpose,

412
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: something to fight for, thing to do, friends roof over

413
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: their head even you know, um yep, which is a

414
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: huge part of it, right because if you if this,

415
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: if this place is not just your social circle but

416
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: also your safety net and like how you keep roof

417
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: over your head and how you stay fed and you

418
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 1: don't have close ties to family, or maybe your family

419
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: aren't people that you can trust. Like I mean again,

420
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: it's not a different story than you get in a

421
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: bunch of other cults, but like this is yeah, it's

422
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: it's it's a very frightening situation for those people to

423
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: wind up in. And of course one of the things

424
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: that is unfortunate is that so much of the stuff

425
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: that the Blackham Organization said and did is so absurd

426
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: that like it leads to this kind of mockery of

427
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: anybody who gets wrapped up in it and the people

428
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: who are very much victims of it, which I think

429
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: is also one of the things that makes it harder

430
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: to leave, right, is that siege mentel and inside that's

431
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: where the term collegnitive dissonance comes from specifically people, right,

432
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: you know, when when things that go according to plan

433
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: stick with this group and you know have already given

434
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: always so much of their time, so much of their lifesy,

435
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: of their connections, that they just roll with them. Yeah.

436
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: And then there's I'm just thinking back to a story

437
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: I wrote years ago where fortunate enough to interview someone

438
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: who's like an expert on these small cults, and they

439
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: had actually been a survivor of I think it was

440
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: a trotsky Ast cult, so they were very familiar and

441
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: they like, this group exhibits all those patterns, right, like

442
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: the charismatic leader that you mentioned, the use of their

443
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: own language, the control of their relationships and their contacts

444
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: inside and outside the group. Yeah, and then they mirror

445
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: this like very positive it's into like just look at

446
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: their aesthetics after you mentioned it that they're definitely sort

447
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: of seeking to mirror that Black Panther Party aesthetic, right,

448
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,239
Speaker 1: which is obviously something that has, for good reasons, very

449
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: positive associations for a lot of people. So I can

450
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: see they've constructed this very appealing package that. Yeah, and

451
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: now there's a body right now, a person has died. Connected,

452
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: let's get to the station. So yeah, let's talk about this.

453
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: So in Atlanta is where things get really wacky. Basically,

454
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: as is often the case with Atlanta, has is often

455
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: the case with this beautiful, beautiful city owned by Coca

456
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: Cola and home depot with with I have to admit

457
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: it as a Texan the best barbecue in the South,

458
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: that's true. Excellent Ethiopian food as well. I was sad

459
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: this weekend. Yeah, yeah, fucking amazing, fucking amazing ethiopen Ethiopian food. Yeah.

460
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: Big refugee population, that's besides the point. M So you know,

461
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: Causo has found themselves in this city without a ton

462
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: of money, um, and so needs to get more attention,

463
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: needs to appeal to more people. So this is when

464
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: Causo announces that Black Hammer is forming a coalition with

465
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: the Proud Boys, which is one of those things that

466
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: comes out and really since nationalized headlines, but doesn't actually happen.

467
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: What happens is cause of goes on a podcast with

468
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: Gavin McGinness and they talked about we have so much

469
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: in common and there's you know, a little toast evidence

470
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: of actual organizing or work together between the two groups.

471
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: But with this group like this, no, especially because Vin

472
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: doesn't organizing anymore, vol problems anymore? What was the podcast

473
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: they went on instead of interest? Daniel cut that and

474
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: add in the entire audio from b movie condensed into

475
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: a two second blast like we talked about. You know,

476
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: the group gets more attention to that. UM. They start

477
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: talking about how rate Trump is, how much do they

478
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: love Trump, how Fauci is evil, um. Because again, ideology

479
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: is not the point. The attention is. And this is

480
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: how you continue get attention by acting ridiculous, UM, by

481
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: asking Trump voters to donate money to you. UM. And

482
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: at this time they also begin an extremely aggressive fundraising

483
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: campaign in the city of Atlanta. So there's a park

484
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: in downtown Atlantic call Woodroff Park that has a huge

485
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: on housed population. Because our city is about at being

486
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: a city and it's it's just back but black Hammer

487
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: there there are other groups. There are other leftist groups

488
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: that do mutual aid that help people out in the park.

489
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: Black Hammer says, we're going to do this too, you know.

490
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: So they'll go there and have these sessions where they're

491
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: screaming into a megaphone about whatever, um, and you know,

492
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: handing out clothes and some food to unhoused people. UM,

493
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: and they also start setting there. The members of their

494
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: group pretty much every day of the week, two go

495
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: out into the city of Atlanta and ask people for

496
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: money on the streets UH in their matching branded Black

497
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: Hammer shirts and masks. A site to see and yeah.

498
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: So this is what they call their robin Hood campaign. UM.

499
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: They specifically target college campuses at Georgia State University and

500
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: Georgia Tech especially UM with the idea that college kids

501
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: have a lot of money to give away. It's not

502
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: a great idea, UM, but they do this aggressive fundraising

503
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: where they you know, follow people and if they don't

504
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: take no franswips. Oh, you don't care about homeless people,

505
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: you don't care about unhoused people. UM. You know, you

506
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: just have so much white privilege and really attacking people. UM.

507
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: Which is great when you're coming home, you're riding your

508
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: bike home and then you keep passing Black Hammer members

509
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: m outside of UH you know, on your commute home.

510
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: Not fun. Yeah, And they appear, you know, on the

511
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: belt Line, which is this kind of public green space

512
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: and shared walking space in Atlanta. UM. They do this

513
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: outside of concert venues. You know, I went to see

514
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: the Dead Kennedy's and as I was walking in the venue,

515
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: a Black Hammer guy asked me for money. I have

516
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 1: to explain to the guy in front of me handing

517
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: them five dollars, this is an anti Semitic cult. You

518
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 1: don't want to do that. And they they're also taking

519
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: in unhoused people. Um. You know, there's this video of

520
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: of one of the lieutenants saying, you know, we want

521
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: to get you, the unhoused people, to come fundraise for us.

522
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: You know, if you come fundraise for us, you can

523
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: keep half of it split and whoever fundraises the most

524
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: in this week gets to come live with us at

525
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: the Hammer House. So it's pretty funked up, you know.

526
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: Um there's a case where a professor at Georgia State University,

527
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: because the people the Black cant Remembers are out there

528
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: every day all day. Um, this is what they do,

529
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: this is their job, this is how the group makes money,

530
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: you know, calls them out and says, hey, stop asking

531
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: for money here. I know you're a cult. And a

532
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: member follows the professor in films her you know, and

533
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: specifically films her license plate and says, we got you.

534
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: For example, members are arrested for having a megaphone in

535
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: Woodruff Park and get some of their guns taken away

536
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: when the rest because they're in the park with a

537
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 1: bunch of guns, you just have guns out. Yeah. Yeah,

538
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 1: it's Georgia, which sometimes is cool when the Proud Boys

539
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 1: show up and anti fascists have guns, but it's not

540
00:35:48,239 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: not great when definitely, tracking following people who criticize you

541
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: and taking pictures of their license plate to try to

542
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: docks them online is not at all cult behavior. They

543
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: attack X members, They leak the addresses of the family

544
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 1: of X members and their social Security numbers as well

545
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: because they had them give them all this information at gunpoint.

546
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 1: They seem to get very close to encouraging people to

547
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: shoot cops. In a couple of pieces on their website

548
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: as well, they talked about killing white people a lot.

549
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: Eventually in Yeah, in two they have this rally outside

550
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: of the CNN Center and solidarity with the January six

551
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: political prisoners, um along going in Gauzy claims to find

552
00:36:54,840 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: have found Jesus and Black Camera will become a religious group,

553
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: you know. They they turned their Mutual Aid distribution into

554
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: what they're calling the Revolutionary Church, which of course is

555
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: filmed and live streamed. They have several live streams that

556
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: they do regularly throughout the week that are mandatory for

557
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:23,240
Speaker 1: members to attend. UM. You know, there there is corporal

558
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: punishment going on within the group of people living at

559
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: the house. UM. And and the people that they're picking

560
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: up off the street. It's not just adults, it's kids

561
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 1: as well, UM, cause of claims to have the sixteen

562
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: year old that they have adopted. UM and you know,

563
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: cause of post these videos of them giving the sixteen

564
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: year old guns and money and clothes to where um,

565
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: the kid gets taken into state custody. Um. Before the

566
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 1: current thing that we're talking about, UM, and this is

567
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: going to be important later on in the story. UM. Yeah.

568
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: So there are also these stories from members who have escaped,

569
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: who have to do these elaborate escape attempts to get

570
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: out because they're not allowed to leave, who have to

571
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: kind of run away in the middle of the night

572
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: with none of their stuff through a thunderstorm to get out.

573
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: So this is what we're dealing with. All right, everyone,

574
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: it's James here, and I just wanted to correct a

575
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: couple of things from the episode or add to them.

576
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: One of them was the date of that shooting, be

577
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: it murder or definitely suicide. That was the nine of July,

578
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: note of February, and so it happened about a week

579
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: ago at the time that you will hear this if

580
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: you hear this on the day that we put out. Secondly,

581
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: I also just wanted to give some context to the

582
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: word huru. It's Swahili word means freedom or independence. It

583
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: was used as part of a a backronym, which is

584
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: when and a group has a name with them, they

585
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: create an acronym that fits to that name. And the

586
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: word Huru was part of a backronym for a group

587
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: called the Mau Mau revolutionary anti colonial group who existed

588
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: in Kenya, and the word of Huru was used a

589
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: decent amoutneatic colonial struggles in Kenya. In the backronym. The

590
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: backronym is Mazoomdifrica Party or Huru let the foreigners go home,

591
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: Africa should be independent, will be independent. I suppose I

592
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: just wanted to give that context. And obviously it's been

593
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: appropriated now by by the Proud Boys, but that is

594
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: part of the etymology of the word. And then we

595
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: get to um what happened on February two. UM. You know,

596
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: this is an ongoing story, so the fact what we

597
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 1: know might be changing. But early in the morning, someone

598
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: calls and talks about being hell hostage by an organization,

599
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,479
Speaker 1: by a group. They don't give the address, but the

600
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: police are the authorities are able to track the number

601
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: to this house in Fayetteville suburb south of Atlanta. UM

602
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: and show up and they see someone is outside walking

603
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: a dog who runs away. That person gets arrested. UM,

604
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 1: that's a member of Black Hammer. They see someone kind

605
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: of waving from the garage seemingly in distress. UM, and

606
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: the police are able to get that person out. They

607
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: asked that the rest of people in the house come

608
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,760
Speaker 1: out as well. UM. About ten people come out and

609
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: one person remains inside. Now by about two pm, with

610
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: the use of an explosives ordinance, with the use of

611
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: an EO D a bomb robot UM, the police enter

612
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: the building. UM. The SWAT team goes in and they

613
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: find one person dead of a gunshot wound to the head,

614
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: which we at this current time we don't know the

615
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: full details on that might not ever, hopefully something comes out.

616
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: CASO is being held. You know. The group is kind

617
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: of like sitting around outside, not in handcuffs but being

618
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: held by the group. Um and Caso does what Caso

619
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: does and starts to live stream. So here's a clip

620
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 1: from this thirty minute live stream Facebook Live that Caso does.

621
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: Look because a lot of media girls. So this is

622
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 1: just going to build me up at the end of

623
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: the day. So thank you. So I think that no

624
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,479
Speaker 1: I am and anything like that, you're out of your mind.

625
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 1: M At the end of the day, they're still breaking

626
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: my body. I still run an amazing revolutionary party. Our

627
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: community is epping with us, and now all these news

628
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: channels are going to want to interview us, and we're

629
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: going to get to communicate about all the great work

630
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: that we are doing here. So this is great at

631
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: the end of the day. So my chickens coming home

632
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: to roost is more more media, more followers, more you know,

633
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: advancement of work, more movement, more greatness, and so be it, sweetheart.

634
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: Things like this have non stops. Movements are readers before,

635
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 1: so not even overcome. This is a great moment, right, comrade.

636
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: This is a great moment, a moment where no voices

637
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: will be amplified and our mission cards will be informed.

638
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: Well that's cool. I like that he clearly understands the

639
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: gravity of the loss of a human life. So I

640
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: will say this is probably before someone was dead. But

641
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 1: the point is that this is exactly what cards have wanted.

642
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: Was this attention. Yeah, they seem pumped. They seem pumped

643
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: and also like deranged. Yeah yeah yeah, that wasn't how

644
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 1: I envisioned them speaking at all. It's sort of very calming,

645
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: and they seem very very calm in that turn of voice. Yeah,

646
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 1: I mean calm, but like, I don't know, I see

647
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: an edge to him, but maybe that's a reading. Um,

648
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: So do we know more detail about like what happened

649
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 1: with that person who died. I don't want to mention

650
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: the name of the person. Um this place, this is

651
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: a minor too, right. This is so the person who

652
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: is killed, who's dead now, was not was not the

653
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: sixteen year old. The sixteen year old was already in

654
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: state custody weeks ago. I believe, Um, this is an

655
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: eight According to the what the group has said and

656
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: other survivors that I have spoken with, this is an

657
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 1: eighteen year old the group took in off of the street. Um,

658
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: there's a kid, you know who wanted to be a

659
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: rapper who had dreams, um who you know. According to

660
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: Black Cameras own media, they made this person their minister

661
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: of defense. That's a good job for an eighteen year

662
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: old who's dead now because of this group, potentially from

663
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: a self inflicted gunshot wound, which that is the case

664
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: came about because of Cooso putting that eighteen year old

665
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: in this situation. Yeah, so Dirty South Right Watch broke

666
00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: the news. They have a really good thread that I

667
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: also recommend about this happening. It seems like the local

668
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: news they started covering the story and the a M

669
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: when it was happening, but didn't quite make the connection.

670
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: There's there's one article it's out there from a local

671
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: news site that just interviews Gazzi Kozo, homeowner of the house. Yeah,

672
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: so that happens, one of the members of the group

673
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,800
Speaker 1: is immediately charged and booked. It's a really fucked up situation,

674
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: you know. There there's like an unhoused individual who that

675
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: who who other good activists were in touch with, who

676
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,439
Speaker 1: are at the house when this happened, because this person

677
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: had no other choice but it was live outside or

678
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:50,879
Speaker 1: go with black Hammer, who went through all of this happening, Um,

679
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,479
Speaker 1: and then it was still on how it was still

680
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: on housed. After all this happened, Canso was arrested and

681
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: booked Um. The charges didn't come out until about an

682
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 1: hour before we started recording. The charges are two accounts

683
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: of participation in streaking activity, two accounts of aggravated assault,

684
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: two accounts of kidnapping, two accounts of false imprisonment, two

685
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: accounts of conspiracy to commit a crime, and I want

686
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: to talk about this one one account of sodomy, which

687
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: in Georgia the sodomy law refers to non consensual oral

688
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: or anal sex or oral and anal sex performed with

689
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 1: the minor got you so one way or the other

690
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 1: that they're being accused of sexual assault. Yes, the other

691
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:47,240
Speaker 1: person arrested UM was charged with the same crimes, except

692
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: not sodomy, officer obstruction instead, presumably because they fled. And

693
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: that's where we're at. That's where we're at right now. Cool. Well,

694
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 1: that's rough. Yeah, it's it's a pretty bleak story. But

695
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: I don't know at this point. We will probably be

696
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: hearing more as this case blows up, and there's always

697
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 1: the chance that you know, the rights going to wind

698
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: up adopting it to try to, you know, make it

699
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: into a left wing bad kind of deal. So when

700
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: we have yeah, yeah, I mean, we'll see what kind

701
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: of legs it gets. But it's important to understand both

702
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: what's happening here because a person is dead and a

703
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: lot of people have been hurt, and also kind of

704
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: broadly the trends that are at play here. The way

705
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: like cult dynamics can intersect with radical politics, I think

706
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: is important for people to be aware of because this

707
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: kind of thing isn't going to get less common as

708
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: ship continues to unravel. Yeah, and if there's some takeaways,

709
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: if someone can leave this with, you know, a few

710
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 1: points that the people who were in this group, they

711
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: are victims in the situation. They were preyed upon by

712
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: this abusive person because they were in a vulnerable state. Um. Anyone.

713
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: This could happen to anyone who falls on hard times,

714
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: who has a bad enough day and then someone comes

715
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: in and offers them this that they say, yes, you know. Um.

716
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: The The other thing is to know about groups that

717
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: are out there before you get involved. Do your research,

718
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: listen to voices that might be critical of the group, UM,

719
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: and know what you're getting yourself into. There are other

720
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,240
Speaker 1: sensibly leftist groups out there who will not as abuse

721
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: of as Black Hammer Um have cases of abuse coming

722
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: out of them that gets covered up. Yeah, it might

723
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: be good for us just to just to suggested if folks,

724
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: you know, find themselves in a difficult situation on someone

725
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: they know is in is in one of these situations,

726
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 1: like maybe we can link to some resources and the

727
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 1: notes or something. Yeah, aren't. Yep, there's not. There's not

728
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: a whole lot of committed to me that I've been

729
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: trying to find. It's probably Stephen Hassan's book, which um

730
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: Sawan is also he's an expert in the field, but

731
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: he's also the guy who talked about how Tranny hit

732
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: No Mind Control porn was. He's got he's problematic. Yeah, well,

733
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: I mean part of the reason that this is such

734
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: a problem is that there's very little in terms of

735
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: good resources or good writing. One of the things that is, like,

736
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: there's good writing analyzing cults, very little of it will

737
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: give you much that's useful in terms of how to

738
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: get people out of cults. For a couple of reasons,

739
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: including the fact that as we talked about earlier. What

740
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:54,280
Speaker 1: makes people vulnerable. People aren't vulnerable to cults broadly usually,

741
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 1: I know there's there's a certain subset of people, but like,

742
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 1: as a general rule, people who get trapped in a

743
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: cult get trapped in a specific cult because it is

744
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: something that they are specifically vulnerable too. And so if

745
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: you don't, like, it's more or less a matter of like,

746
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 1: if you want to get someone out of a cult, um,

747
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 1: are you close with that person? Like, are they someone

748
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: that you know? Are they someone that you have a

749
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: deep relationship with? Because if so, like that relationship and

750
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: the care that you have for them is primarily the

751
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 1: thing that is most likely to eventually help them get out,

752
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: Which doesn't mean it's a magic bullet, but like there's

753
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: no reliable way to get people out of cults. Yeah,

754
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: I'm a I do. I do twelve step recovery stuff

755
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: um for different reasons. But the closest analogy that I

756
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 1: can think of is dealing with someone who's abusing drug

757
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: and alcohol in your life. You can't force anyone to stop,

758
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: you can't make anyone. When people talk about CULTI programming,

759
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: what that entails kidnapping someone and then putting them through

760
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: more abuse. So there is a magic bullet. Yeah, a

761
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: lot of extremity problematic ship gets offer to people who

762
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: understandably concerned for their friends and family members and just

763
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: want to help. The best time to get someone out

764
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: of a cult is before they join, is to raise

765
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 1: awareness about abuse in communities UM and share that information

766
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 1: and take these things seriously. I truly believe so much

767
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: of how this was able to happen is because people

768
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,800
Speaker 1: we're just laughing at them and didn't take it seriously

769
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: that this could get someone killed, that this was ruining lives.

770
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,479
Speaker 1: That's still happening. People are treating this as a joke,

771
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: not Yeah, And I think that's one of the things

772
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 1: if you're like I don't know a parent or or

773
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: somebody who otherwise works with their interfaces with there is

774
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 1: raising young people and you're trying to think about how

775
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: you can make them less vulnerable to this. It is

776
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: a mix of educating them about cults in not in

777
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: a way that's like laughing or mocking or talking about

778
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: how silly it is, but actually discussing the very real

779
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 1: reasons why people fall and for this stuff, because that's

780
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: that's the important one of the most important things it's

781
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: the same as COVID. Really, one of the most important

782
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: things for protecting yourself is not thinking that you're immune,

783
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 1: which is a natural thing. Most people who have fallen

784
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: into colts earlier in their life when they heard about

785
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: colts said well, that's stupid as hell. I would never

786
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 1: get trapped in something like that, and then they did.

787
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: And that's basically a hundred percent of Coat membership. You know, um,

788
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: because yeah, if there's if I can recommend some resources

789
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: for parents. Shannon fully Martinez, who is on Twitter, is

790
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: you know, was involved in extreme right skinhead stuff unless fitness,

791
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: committed her life to helping people leave extremist movements. The

792
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,760
Speaker 1: same things you know that are going to make someone

793
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 1: easily preyed upon by a COLT and by an extremist group.

794
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 1: Those are the same things. Um. Shannon has some good

795
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: resources out there. She has a Patreon as well. The

796
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: resources are available for free. Don't need to join on

797
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: her patreon. Awesome, Yeah, Shannon is awesome. UM. And other

798
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,760
Speaker 1: than that, you know, don't ye try to avoid falling

799
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: for a cult, um except for you know this podcast.

800
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: Keep listening to this podcast. Make it the center of

801
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: your life. Have no friends of the US for in

802
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 1: paras social relationships with us. Uh huh, Well we're the

803
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: only We're the only people you can trust. I think

804
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 1: that's clear. Yeah. Would you like to plug anything before

805
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: we carry you off here? Thomas, Yeah, I'm at Twitter

806
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: at w underscore f underscore, Thomas, don't be weird on Twitter. Um,

807
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: have empathy for the people around you. Almost gonna plug

808
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 1: HASHTA housed people because they know what best can help them. Yeah,

809
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 1: fucking provide people with options for housing so that they're

810
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 1: not Yeah, having a could be the best thing they

811
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:11,879
Speaker 1: can do. But yeah, yep, I'm not a happy note.

812
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Yeah, check in on your friends,

813
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: disbanding people when they're in difficult times. It could Happen

814
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. Or more

815
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool zone

816
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I

817
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

818
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated

819
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks

820
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: for listening.