WEBVTT - Why Are Chocolate Prices Going Up And Up And Up? 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:03.880 From Bloomberg News. I'm Jennifer's Abisaga and this is the 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:08.080 very first episode of the Next Africa Podcast, your weekly 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:15.319 dive into business stories from across the continent. I am 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.640 really excited to bring you this brand new podcast from money, 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:24.640 politics and economy, to technology and even fashion and sports. 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:28.600 Each week with one Bloomberg reporter or multiple, we're going 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:33.040 to be lifting the lid on the news driving Africa. 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.360 For our first episode, we're going to be talking about 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:42.680 one of my favorite topics and indulgences chocolate. Okay, delectly 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.960 doing chocolates and carols like creamy chocolate. Who is that 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:46.920 is enough? 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:55.520 Good Year? Anyone out a tast sensation rich, luxurious, unique. 0:00:54.320 --> 0:01:07.800 You're assessably smooth chocolate put the world on pause. It's 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.880 hard to find someone who is not a fan of chocolate. 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:13.760 We all love it in so many different forms, from 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.720 kit Kats to Mars or Cadburry, take your pick. But 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.280 everywhere we go, companies are increasing the cost of your 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:27.200 favorite chocolate bars and products. But what's the reason behind 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.760 it and what does it mean for the overall industry. 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.920 That's something we are going to talk about today on 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.760 the podcast with momby guitar. Hey, moobooy, how are you? 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:36.560 I'm good. 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.760 Hi. You are the best positioned person I think in 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:41.920 our newsroom to be speaking about this, because you're our 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.520 soft commodities reporter. Are you just eating all day? 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:49.680 I am not eating all day volvos. I don't think 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:50.680 i'd be standing here. 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.600 You know. We brought you on because what we've been 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.800 covering across Bloomberg platforms for the past few weeks is 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.600 just the skyrocketing price of Coco right now. I just 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:02.880 saw a banner that said logo for Coco. I feel 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:08.520 like everybody is logo for Coco right now because now 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:14.799 it's more expensor the likes of copper. Coco has exceeded 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.880 nine thousand dollars for the first time ever as global 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:23.000 supplies order just grip the market. Why are you stop 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.320 piling chocolate? Do you really think that it's going to 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:31.840 get that much worse out there? Are you surprised by 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:32.440 what we're saying? 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.120 No, I'm not surprised. And it almost feels like everywhere 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.800 I turn in this newsroom, everyone is asking me what's 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:43.639 happening to the price of Coco? But it's was expected. 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.760 Everyone you speak to the trader say we were going 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.640 to get here. But it's also fascinating the pace at 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:51.760 t Whitich we've gotten here. In just a span of 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.200 three months, prices have doubled. We started the year at 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:59.000 four thousand dollars a ton. It's a vertical rise. It 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.920 almost looks like a rocket launch. I think that's been 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.320 the most fascinating thing about the ratley in the cocoa market. 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:07.959 Let's just take a step back and try to contextualize 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.040 how we got here. As somebody who's been watching these 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.800 commodities for quite a while, where should we start. 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:18.359 We should start from West Africa. So in West Africa 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.079 we have every coast and Ghana. They are the biggest 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.800 producers of coco, and just West Africa alone accounts for 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:28.600 seventy five percent of global production of coco. So without 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.280 West Africa, we would basically not have coco or chocolate 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.320 in the world. The rest comes from Latin America, so 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.120 that accounts for about twenty five percent. And I was 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.680 in West Africa about three months ago. I think we 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.520 had started to see that there's a problem there, and 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.280 back then prices were not shooting as much as they 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.800 are right now, and as they went through the fields. 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.040 You could see fields that were flooded, that's because of rains. 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:54.440 You could see sick trees. We went to a farm 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:58.640 where half the plantation had sick trees that were infected 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:01.600 with either black pod or stall enshoot. So it's just 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.960 a perfect storm of things. We've had climate change, you 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.760 have diseases, and then the top that is farmers have 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:12.760 been paid poorly for the last forty years, and so 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.840 if you're not well paid, you don't invest back into 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.719 your farm. And we've had high inflation in the last 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.680 two years, so farmers have not been able to afford 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:26.279 fertilizers chemicals to tackle diseases. As you can imagine, lack 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.600 of investment on anything means that investment will not succeed. 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:35.520 So it's the lack of pay for farmers, diseases, climate 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.840 change just the perfect storm that the cocoa market needed 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:40.240 for us to have a deficit. 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.480 Is this a uniquely West African problem or is it 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.400 something that we are seeing in other parts of the world. 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.760 It's a uniquely West African problem because West Africa has 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.000 been the sole producer of cocoa, so they have many 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.440 trees and the problem is that some of those trees 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.039 are aging. As you know, as you get older, you 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:02.159 become less bread active, and so is that tree, even 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.320 cocoa tree. As the longer it takes it's in the farm, 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:08.920 the less productive it gets. So in Latin America we're 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:13.039 having them plant more neu trees. We have new plantations there, 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:16.640 so they're a bit more productive. I'd call them useful trees, 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.400 whereas in West Africa we have old trees. Because of that, 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.800 West Africa's production is falling and now the world is 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.440 going to have a third day of deficit. What that 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.400 means is that we're consuming more chocolate than we are 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:31.280 producing coco. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.679 I mean it is eating less chocolate. Really the solution 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:35.960 here for consumers. 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.520 I don't know if you're like me, but every time 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.719 I go to the supermarket and I go to the 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:45.160 chocolate aisle, I cover the market so I know what's coming, 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.159 I know why price is arising. But when I look 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:52.040 at that cost, I'm thinking to myself, do I buy carrots, 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:53.240 do I buy chocolate? 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:54.960 And what to do? 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.240 I'm assuming chocolate chocolate, But then the next day I'll 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.359 take carrots, which is much cheaper, so I'm having to 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.599 trade off and so that's a choice that consumers will 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.479 have to make. Companies will still have to buy Coco 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.600 to meet their products and to be able to supply 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.320 their consumers with their favorite chocolates. And I don't think 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.240 there's a way around it, as these costs will have 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:19.520 to be passed on to consumers. And we had the 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.320 Mondolist chairman and CEO speak on Bloomback TV the other 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:24.239 day about this. 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.200 Our input costs keeps from going up. Some are flats 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.240 are coming down, but Coco, sugar in fact also and 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:35.880 hazelnuts are the ones that are going quite high, and 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.360 they're important in our products. So we unfortunately have to 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:40.159 increase prices. 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:40.479 Again. 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:44.880 They say the QRE four high prices is high prices, 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.560 and you have to come to a point where these 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:52.600 high prices bring down demand significantly that prices come down, 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.680 so it will be less demand that will bring prices 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:00.440 back to the point of equilibrium. Otherwise, if we continue 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:03.400 to eat more chocolate, then prices continue to go up. 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.640 So maybe is this going to start eroding the bottom 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:09.920 line of some of these companies to the point where 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:15.480 they may even start rethinking how much exposure their portfolios 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:16.640 actually have to chocolate. 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:20.080 What the companies are trying to do fast is to 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:24.800 cut production costs. We've seen companies that have started laying 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:26.880 off some of their stuff that they think they can 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.800 do without because they're automating more. We've seen companies consider 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.280 closures or factories that they think are too expensive to run, 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.440 either because they've been there for too long and therefore 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.600 running them is a lot more expensive, so they'll consider 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:44.320 cutting production costs to where they can, and then in 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.000 the long run, they will try and push products that 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.360 have less cocoa in them, or try and push products 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.800 that do not cut into their bottom line to make 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.600 sure that they are still running. Some of these companies 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.240 don't just thrive on cocoa alone or on chocolate. They 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.040 have other products on their portfolio, so they might try 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.240 to push consumers to buy those cheaper products as they 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.400 wait for cocoa prices to come down. That's if they 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:12.200 will ever come down to levels that we've seen before. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.400 Well, and membe that's on the end of the supply chain. 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.840 Let's just start at the beginning with the actual cocoa farmers. 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.120 How is this all affecting them? Because you mentioned this 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:26.640 has been slow and steady getting to this point. But 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:28.520 where are they at right now? 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.280 I think farmers are looking at the rally, or they're 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:36.200 probably hearing about the rally in the prices and they're wondering, 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:39.040 when are we going to greap benefits of this. So 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:43.560 farmers in Cameroon, in Nigeria, in other parts of the 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:47.400 world that are more liberalized are realizing the benefits of 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:51.640 this rally. But farmers in Ivory Coast and Garner the 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.240 prices their asset by the government and they usually set 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.080 anyar in advance, so that means they've not seen the 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.880 benefits of this rally. Hearing that, there's more pressure on 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:06.000 the government to make sure that they start to push 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:09.800 on these prices to the farmers, that the prices for 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:12.120 farmers are raised. If they don't do that, then we 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:15.600 won't have more cocor growing in the farm. So it's 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:18.280 I think in the government's interests to make sure that 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:22.760 farmers are well remunerated and that this rally that is 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:27.960 meant to benefit the farmers does actually benefit the farmers. 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.840 Are we seeing any of the governments really take some 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.960 serious measures into consideration here to help with that. 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:39.360 It's not clear right now, because as I said, every 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:43.680 constant gunners sell forward, so they've already reached agreements with 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.720 exporters for this season and yeah, da advance, so there's 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.040 little wig room for them in this season, but they 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.960 can do that in the next season as they sell 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.719 forward for the next crop. So we might see more 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:01.040 changes maybe starting October when this is on starts, but 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.160 between now and October there's very little will go room 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:05.959 for the governments to work around. 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.240 Is there a risk of maybe doing too much, especially 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.200 because we don't really know where the price of cocoa 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:17.520 is going or is this needed for the farms across 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:18.600 Ivory Coast and Ghana. 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:22.400 I wouldn't say there's a risk of doing too much, 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.679 as not much has been done. So if you look 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.040 at the where the price is, farmer is earning less 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.600 than a sixth of where the price is, so there's 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:35.520 still room for us to close the gap between what 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.400 the price on the futures market is and what the 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:41.440 farmer gets. So I think that is where the industry 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:45.480 wants to get at and this was probably going to come. 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:49.040 I think there's just a lot that has been happening 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.800 for the sector and this is the point where they 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.480 have to realize that farmers need the money to grow 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:59.200 more and unless they're well remunerated, then you won't be 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.680 getting the cocoa, and then that's going to increase the 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.640 cost for you and you may probably lose your consumers. 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.360 So this is just one of the many challenges as 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.360 you mentioned that farmers are facing. I mean, what else 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.840 is sort of hitting the industry right now that is 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.600 having a significant impact on what's happening on the ground 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:18.520 at some of these farms. 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.920 I think the biggest one, apart from prices that is 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.800 keeping them awake, is what we call the EUDR, that's 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:30.200 European Deforestation Law. That law is going to change how 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.800 the coco market works, particularly in Europe. That law will 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:38.800 require every farmer, I mean, every trader, every important of coco, 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.720 whoever brings coco into the European Union to show that 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.120 that coco was not grown on deforested land. Now that's 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.960 a big ask for an important If you bring iner shipment, 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.480 you have to show that it was not grown on 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.160 land that was recently deforested. What does that mean? They 0:11:56.200 --> 0:12:00.200 have to have the GPS coordinates of every farm where 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:04.440 they source their cocoa. That's additional costs because these company 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:08.200 is from Cargill to e Comm to Teuton. All these 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.199 companies need to have boots on the ground and map 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.440 every farmer and make sure that that farmer is not 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:19.440 enforested land. So apart from the rising coco prices, they 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:22.640 have a regulation that will be implemented at the end 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.920 of this year that they have to follow that they 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.760 have to add THEA too, So most companies are concerned 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.400 us about cocoa prices, but they're also looking at the timeline. 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:36.440 They have to comply with the EUDR and make sure 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:40.920 that by December twenty ninth of December thirtieth that they 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.160 are able to trace every coco that they bring into 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:44.640 the EU. 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.360 How does that even work? I mean in rural parts 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.480 of Africa, I mean, how are you going to have 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.360 the coordinates and some of these details that the EU 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:54.120 is looking for. 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.040 First of all, the supply chain is just so complex. 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.560 The farmer and the trader, they're all like six intermediaries 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:05.160 between them, and so that coco is just constantly switching hands. 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.120 And then how are you going to tell a farmer 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.560 to map their land? They probably do not own a smartphone, 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:12.640 so it's going to be really the bad end of 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.360 the importer to do that. And trust me, if they 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.400 have to take on more costs, there is no way 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.280 they're going to absorb it into their own bottom line. 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.040 They'll probably make sure that the consumer pays for that, 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.640 but it's a huge ask for importers. Coco has been 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:32.559 blamed for driving deforestation in every cost and in Ghana. 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.360 To make sure that that doesn't happen. They want to 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:39.360 make sure that importers take responsibility of where the coco 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:40.959 is coming from. 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.840 And maybe just getting back to cocoa and what we've 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.439 seen over the past three months, when we think about 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.480 the end of the year, can you use your crystal 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.200 ball and give us your ideas or your outloock for 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.880 what you think, because there's some analysts who we've been 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.439 speaking to who think that we could see a crash soon. 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:00.400 What do you think? What's the trajectory here? 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.120 I wish I had the crystal ball to begin with, 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:09.800 but just looking at the market fundamentals, it's unlikely we'll 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:14.680 get a supply response to see production come out of nowhere. 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.800 It takes four or five years for a cockol tree 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.200 to start producing, So even if farmers went to the 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.280 field and planted coco right now, we won't see those 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.240 pods until after three to four years. That's when we'll 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.480 see that production. Prices may correct, they may come down 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.160 from the level we're seeing right now, but they won't 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.360 go back to the levels that we saw a year 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:40.200 ago or two years ago. Prices will still remain high 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:44.000 because it's about balancing supply and demand. We are heading 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.280 into the third year of deficit. Supply response will not 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.480 be there, so it's just a matter of finding that equilibrium, 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.880 and that equilibrium will still be higher prices, so consumers 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.760 have to get used to higher prices until when we 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.640 see the supply response from this kind trees, which is 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:04.800 not this year, not next year. So there's no relief 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:05.760 insight for now. 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.480 So Mumbi, it's the future of what's really happening right now. 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.200 Are we heading to a state where it's going to 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.040 be a luxury, will be a luxury for kids to 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:16.440 eat chocolate down the road? 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:21.200 Yes, but I think Europe, which is the largest consumer 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:25.320 of chocolate, will probably still consider it an essential item. 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.880 But for other parts of the world, maybe Asia or Africa, 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.320 that will remain a luxury. As we see these increases, 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.440 it will be out of reach for other people, maybe 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:41.480 in middle income areas, probably in the developing countries, but 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.680 I think for developed countries like Europe and the US, 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.960 chocolate will still be a nice street to have every 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.160 weekend of every once in a while. 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.520 All Right, thank you so much Mumby for this insight 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.440 into the cocoa industry and also all the soft commodities 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.920 that you're covering day and day out. We reallyppreciate having 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.560 you on the first pod. I think the big takeaway 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.800 here is that there's real challenges across the board in 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:11.680 the industry. It's really hitting farmers on the ground. Farmers 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.800 need the support, the financial support to be trickling to 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.240 their pockets in order to help support a lot of 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.200 the disease and the decay that we've been seeing on 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.080 a lot of these farms for the past few years. 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.480 But that needs to come in the form of government 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:29.080 stepping in to help with some of this regulation and 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:33.640 hopefully then the higher prices will at least even themselves out, 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.120 although I think some of us hope that they'll come 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.840 down a bit, so we'll have to wait and see 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.479 how that pans out, and also how the EU regulation 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:47.280 around deforestation really affects the industry more broadly, and whether 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.080 we're going to see some of these big chocolate makers, 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:54.080 these big companies taking a hit. But for me at 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.400 this time, I think I'm just going to focus on 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.200 stocking up on as much chocolate as I can while 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:07.120 the prices stay where they are. This program was produced 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:11.000 by Christopher Pitt and Leone Drago and you can hear 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.879 more stories like this one on the Next Africa podcast, 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:18.560 available every week wherever you usually get your podcasts. I'm 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.639 Jennifer Zabisagia. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:22.120 next time.