1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg Intelligence 2 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: with Alex Steel and Paul Sweeney. 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 2: The real app performance has been in US corporate high yield. 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 3: Are the companies lean enough? Have they trimmed all the facts? 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: The semiconductor business is a really cyclical business. 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: Breaking market headlines and corporate news from across the globe. 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 3: Do investors like the M and A that we've seen? 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 4: These are two. 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 2: Big time blue chip companies. 10 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 3: Window between the peak and cunt changing super fast. 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence with Alex Steele and Paul Sweeney on Bloomberg Radio. 12 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: On Today's Bloomberg Intelligence Show, we dig inside the big 13 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 2: business stories impacting Wall Street. 14 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 5: And the global markets. 15 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 2: Each and every week we provide in depth research and 16 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: data on some of the two thousand companies and one 17 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty industries. 18 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 5: Our analysts cover worldwide. 19 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: Today, we'll look at how one e commerce company is 20 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: being impacted by a US China trade war, Plus what's 21 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 2: guess why the retail giant Walmart forecasts a lower than 22 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: expected profit for the full year. But first we begin 23 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 2: with the auto sector. This week, shares a Rivian Automotive 24 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: tumbled after the company warning it's poised for a first 25 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: ever decline in electric vehicle deliveries in twenty twenty five. 26 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 2: For more on this and the EV sector, guest host 27 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: Emily Griffey when I were joined by Steven men Bloomberg 28 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: Intelligence Global Autos and Industrials research journalist. We first asked 29 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 2: Steve how the company is doing. 30 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 6: I think they execute it very well in the fourth 31 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 6: quarter and for the most part in twenty twenty four, 32 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 6: they actually had a gross profit in the fourth quarter, 33 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 6: first ever if you take out some of the non 34 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 6: cash items and if you take out credit, they still 35 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 6: broke even as they promised. But the only thing is 36 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 6: they've you know, they have huge operating leverage and improved costs, 37 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 6: but you know, they just can't get enough volume through 38 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 6: the plants to really benefit from the cost cutting initiatives. 39 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 7: And what do you attribute to that not being able 40 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 7: to to. 41 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 6: Do so, Yeah, you know, their guidance were were lower 42 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 6: than expected. Uh, there's some concerns about you know, Trump 43 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 6: Trump administration cutting the seventy five hundred EV tax credit 44 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 6: denting sales, so you know, and then the other thing 45 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 6: that you know they're planning to do is shut down 46 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 6: the plant for part of the fourth quarter to really 47 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 6: uh you know, bring to bring on the R two, 48 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 6: a smaller a smaller. 49 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 8: Mid sized vehicle next year. 50 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 6: So there's some kind of top line headwind that's impacting. 51 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 6: But then again, look, you know they've done a really 52 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 6: good job you step back, They've gonna done a really 53 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 6: good job in rationalizing their capacity, their costs. I think 54 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 6: it's just a matter of time that we're going to 55 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 6: see huge profit windfall for them when they get the 56 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 6: volume up. 57 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 2: So, Steve, what's the feeling in the in the EV 58 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: marketplace these days about where demand is is on a 59 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 2: global scale. 60 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 5: Here for EV's. 61 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 8: It's still strong. 62 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 6: Now we're actually predicting that EV sales will be up 63 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 6: single digits similar to last year. And then in twenty 64 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 6: twenty six, twenty twenty seven, I think that's when things 65 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 6: will improve. Like if the seventy five hundred dollars EV 66 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 6: tax credit goes away, there are a lot of new 67 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 6: affordable vehicles coming into the market, so I don't think 68 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 6: the consumer will need the seventy five hundred dollars. So 69 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 6: I think the man will improve, and I think we'll 70 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 6: have to wait until twenty twenty six and specifically Rivian. 71 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 8: We're very positive. 72 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 6: I think they are going to launch a new mid 73 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 6: sized vehicle that's gonna resonate well with the consumers. 74 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 7: What did you learn in Rivian's report about just how 75 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 7: the company is reacting to the prospect of terras. 76 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 6: It's something they can't control, obviously, but you know, I 77 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 6: think they were anticipating the seventy five hundred dollars going away. 78 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 6: They they don't expect that to continue forever, and that's 79 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 6: why they took that cost cutting initiative at the the 80 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 6: middle of last year and really reduce costs by more 81 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 6: than thirty percent, and that that will allow them to 82 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 6: actually have more flexibility on pricing. And the second thing 83 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 6: they're doing is they're you know, they understand what the 84 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 6: what the consumer wants, you know, they want a more 85 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 6: affordable vehicle, and that's why they're going to launch the 86 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,559 Speaker 6: R two in early twenty twenty six or late twenty 87 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 6: twenty five. 88 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 8: So they've anticipated that. 89 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: Steve, we can't talk to you without talking about Tesla. 90 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 2: You know, it's off about the fifteen percent year to date, 91 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: but it's you know, almost seventy five percent, little more 92 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: than seventy five percent or the trilliing twelve months. It's 93 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: kind of the typical volatility that we're I guess used 94 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: to with Tesla. 95 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 5: Here, what's the feeling out there today? 96 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: Is Elon Musk a net positive or or maybe even 97 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: a little bit of a net negative for this stock 98 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 2: right now? 99 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 6: I think I think the concern is really some of 100 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 6: the sales that's been pretty weak in the US and 101 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 6: as well as in Europe, and I think the rhetoric 102 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 6: and there's you know, there's news out there, there's surveys 103 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 6: out there saying that you know, Elon Musk is having 104 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 6: an impact, you know, his involvements with with Doge. But 105 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 6: at the end of the day, you know, if I 106 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 6: step back and look at you know, the product rollout, 107 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 6: the product rollouts that they're coming up with this year 108 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 6: with a new model why, I think that you know, 109 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 6: the model why rollout is having some impact on current 110 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 6: sales because customers are actually waiting for. 111 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 8: The new vehicle. 112 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 6: And also there's an affordable model also from Tesla coming 113 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 6: out later this year. I think, you know, it's gonna 114 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 6: be a you know, a slower year for Tesla in 115 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 6: terms of sales. But I think in the second half 116 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 6: and in the fourth quarter it will definitely pick back up. 117 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 6: There's already signs of, you know, strong demand for the 118 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 6: Model Y. If you look at China, they start delivering 119 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 6: the new Model Y and and you know, and consumers 120 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 6: are really liking that vehicle. 121 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 7: Right now, I have to ask about the cyber truck. Anecdotally, 122 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 7: I've seen this vehicle everywhere on the streets of New 123 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 7: York City. But I'm not sure if like I'm just 124 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 7: noticing it more, but what are the sales looking like 125 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 7: for the cyber truck. 126 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 6: The cyber truck is It's not going to be like 127 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 6: a high volume vehicle like the Model Wi or three. 128 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 6: It's still a niche market. I think it helps Tesla 129 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 6: build the brand as a high tech company. It doesn't 130 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 6: resonate with everyone, but it does resonate with a large 131 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 6: group of consumer that I do believe that Tesla has 132 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 6: the technology, the manufacturing technology and the vehicle technology. Autonomy 133 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 6: of technology are thanks to Steve Man, Bloomberg Intelligence, Global 134 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 6: autos and Industrials research analyst. We move next to the 135 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:09,239 Speaker 6: enterprise security software company sale Point Technologies. Toma Bravo backed 136 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 6: sale Point recently completed its initial public offering on the 137 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 6: NASDAQ sale Point Race one point three eight billion dollars 138 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 6: in its debut, and this marked the first major tech IPO. 139 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 5: Of the year. 140 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: For More, co host Alex Steele and guest host Norma 141 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: Linda were joined by Mark McLain, CEO of sale Point Technologies. 142 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 2: Mark's first asked whether sale Points IPO meshes well with 143 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 2: the company's long term vision. 144 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 9: Well, I think in general, we've tried to stay focused 145 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 9: as a business on building great business with our customers 146 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 9: and winning in the market. In some ways, what happens 147 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 9: in the financial ownership of the business matters a lot, 148 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,559 Speaker 9: but it doesn't actually affect our day to day lives, 149 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 9: if you will. In finding and securing customers and making 150 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 9: them successful, that's certainly always our focus. We do think though, 151 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 9: that the IPO gets us back out in the public. 152 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 10: Eye a little more. 153 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 9: The importance of what we do and what's called identity 154 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 9: security is raising an awareness and important to the large 155 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 9: companies all around the world that we typically serve, and 156 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 9: this will help with our visibility, it'll give us future 157 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 9: fuel to grow the business. We've had a great run 158 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 9: as a private company with Tomo Bravo. 159 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 10: Some folks know this. 160 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 9: We were public before and before that we were runed 161 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 9: by Toma Bravo. It's a little bit of an interesting 162 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 9: story of a PE backed IPO, same PE backed IPO again. 163 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 9: But all the while, our focus continues to be on 164 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 9: doing great things for our customers and helping them secure 165 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 9: their enterprises with identity Well. 166 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 11: Cyber threats have continued to increase. How does sale Points 167 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 11: stay ahead in identity security? 168 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 9: Yeah, what's happened in the world of cybersecurity. There's a 169 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 9: lot of shifting things in the landscape. A simple metaphor 170 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 9: that sometimes helps folks is that the. 171 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 10: Bad actors are the attackers. 172 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 9: Not so long ago, their metaphor was to break the 173 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 9: glass and grab the jewels and run. Quite often now, 174 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 9: and we've seen this in breach reports, they'll try to 175 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 9: sneak in the back of the jewelry store, poses an 176 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 9: employee and eventually try to quote clean out the jewelry store. 177 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 9: And that's because they've been able to impersonate, so to speak, 178 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 9: an employee, and that's a comp reized identity. What we 179 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 9: do is help businesses, typically mid to large enterprises around 180 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 9: the world, focus on understanding all the identities they have, 181 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 9: both human and non human, all the data they care 182 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 9: about protecting and making sure that at any point in time, 183 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 9: all of those connections are secure. It's a pretty complex 184 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 9: problem at scale. 185 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 3: Who are your competitors right now and how can you 186 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 3: help differentiate? 187 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 9: Yeah, the truth is we've got more I like to 188 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 9: call them PowerPoint competitors than real competitors. 189 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 10: I mean, there's folks that are. 190 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 9: Talking about this space quite a bit, but if you 191 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 9: look at what happens day to day when we're out 192 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 9: in the market, there's very few companies that are capable 193 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 9: of delivering the success at scale that we have. We're 194 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 9: fortunate to be in almost half of the Fortune five hundred, 195 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 9: about a quarter of the Fortune two thousand, and they're 196 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 9: generally throwing out older legacy products like from Oracle and IBM. 197 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 9: There really hasn't been a strong challenger to us in 198 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 9: this key space, and that's part of what I think 199 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 9: has gotten investors excited about our potential for long term, 200 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 9: durable growth. 201 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 11: So another thing that's been in conversation, I'm curious, how 202 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 11: are you all planning to address your debt load? 203 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 9: Well, you know, one of the key use of proceeds 204 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 9: will be to pay down a lot of the debt. 205 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 9: We actually had a little more debt about six months ago. 206 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 9: Our backers Home of Bravo chose to take some of 207 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 9: that debt out with equity before the IPO, and we'll 208 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 9: use the bulk of the proceeds from the IPO to 209 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 9: pay that debt down significantly, putting ourselves in what they 210 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 9: call it debt zero, meaning we'll have as as much 211 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 9: more cash as we have debt, which from a financial 212 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 9: profile standpoint makes investors really happy. 213 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 3: Why do you guys decide to do the IPO? 214 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 2: Now? 215 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 3: We were just talking about IPOs in general, and I 216 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 3: was talking about an LNG export that went public at 217 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: seemingly a great time and it didn't go so well. 218 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 3: So I wonder why strategically you guys chose right now. 219 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 9: Well, we've been watching markets as everyone has, and I 220 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 9: think we were really pleased with the progress of the business. 221 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 10: We went private about two and a half years ago. 222 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 9: As part of our S one finaling, we talked about 223 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 9: the fact that as of our third quarter last year, 224 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 9: we'd grown the business at thirty percent. We've been able 225 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 9: to deliver non gap margins of about fourteen percent, and 226 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 9: had a strong sense that durable growth we can, and 227 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 9: that was at scale. We're over an eight hundred million 228 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 9: dollars revenue business now and investors don't see a lot 229 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 9: of profiles of growth at scale with profit. And I 230 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 9: think our sense was that the markets were kind of hungry, 231 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 9: so to speak, for new issuances, particularly I think in 232 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 9: technology security has been considered a. 233 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 10: Really good market for a long time. 234 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 9: I think we looked like a company that would fit 235 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 9: many of their requests, so to speak, for a durable 236 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 9: growth company in the security space. 237 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 11: How are regulatory shifts driving demand for identity security solutions 238 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 11: as enterprises continue shifting to the cloud? How a sale 239 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 11: point evolving its offerings? 240 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 9: Well, it's interesting you mentioned that regulatory is indeed part 241 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 9: of the landscape we're addressing. Sometimes, you know, audits or 242 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 9: the threat of failed audits or not being able to 243 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 9: comply with regulations is a driver. But increasingly our space 244 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 9: is less about that. Not it hasn't moved away from that, 245 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 9: but it's less about that than truly securing their data. Again, 246 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 9: what's happened is this concern that data can be compromised 247 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 9: through this lens of identity, if a bad actor can somehow, 248 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,599 Speaker 9: you know, get in, break in, steal an identity, or 249 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,359 Speaker 9: in some way get access to data through those identities, 250 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 9: they can do a lot of damage. So that focus 251 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 9: on truly protecting the data is really more of an 252 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 9: issue today than just regulatory compliance. 253 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 3: What's it like attracting talent right now in the market, Well, i'd. 254 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 9: Attracting talent is never easy in a very competitive technology market. 255 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 9: I think we're very fortunate at sale Point. One of 256 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 9: the things that we pay a lot of attention to 257 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 9: is our culture and our values and how that shows up. 258 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 9: And as you probably are familiar, a glass Door runs 259 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 9: around and surveys the world and tries to understand how 260 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 9: companies are doing. We're super pleased they released those results recently. 261 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 9: We were number seventeen in the world, and if you 262 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 9: want to cut it by an interesting factor, we were 263 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 9: the highest ranked tech company with under five thousand employees 264 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 9: on glass Door. I think that speaks a lot about 265 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 9: the kind of culture and the values we live out 266 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 9: in our company. It attracts and retains very good talent, 267 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 9: and we're very fortunate. 268 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: Our thanks to Mark McClain, CEO of sale Point Technologies. 269 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 2: Coming up, we'll look at how banks are nancing for 270 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 2: the energy transition. 271 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:03,599 Speaker 5: You're listening to Bloomberg. 272 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 2: Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing in research and data on 273 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 2: two thousand companies and one hundred and thirty industries. You 274 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: can access Bloomberg Intelligence via Bigall the Terminal. 275 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 5: I'm Paul Sweeney. This is Bloomberg. 276 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live 277 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple Cocklay and Android 278 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 279 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 280 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 2: This week we focused on a Bloomberg Big Takes story 281 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: entitled tem News Rise was aided by Trump? Now he 282 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 2: poses a major threat. You can find it on Bloomberg 283 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: dot Com and The Terminal. The story looks at the 284 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 2: online marketplace Temu, operated by the Chinese e commerce company 285 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 2: p d D Holdings, and it talks about the obstacles 286 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 2: TU faces from US China trade war. 287 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 5: For more, guest hosts Matt Miller and I. 288 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 2: Were joined by Spencer Soper, Bloomberg News Technology and e 289 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 2: Commerce reporter First ass Spencer to tell us about Timu 290 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 2: and how it may be impacted by a China US 291 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 2: trade war. 292 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 4: Basically, this is an online marketplace full of discounts. It's 293 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 4: kind of like a dollar tree in your phone. You 294 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 4: can find all kinds of products. And the big differentiator 295 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 4: here is that they're just really really cheap in terms 296 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 4: of prices, oftentimes like half as much as say like 297 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 4: Amazon or Walmart, or even even less than that. It's, 298 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 4: you know, kind of sprang onto the scene in twenty 299 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 4: twenty two, and it really capitalized on this deminimous loophole, 300 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 4: which is basically a tariff loophole that originated in the 301 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 4: nineteen thirties, and it's it's mainly for like travelers coming 302 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 4: back with gifts and their suitcases and that sort of thing, 303 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 4: so they don't have to get bogged down and paying 304 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 4: tariffs and duties. But as e commerce emerged and cross 305 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 4: border e commerce emerged, it became a way to ship 306 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 4: products directly from like factories in China to shpe in 307 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 4: the US without paying tariffs and duties, which has helped 308 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 4: them beat some prices from US retailers. 309 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 12: I love the way your story starts out, which is 310 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 12: in a town that I'm not going to try and pronounce, 311 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 12: but a Chinese town that's twice the size of Chicago 312 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 12: with a lot of blade manufacturers. I actually looked on 313 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 12: the Timu dot com website and the first thing I 314 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 12: see is a sharp sword, a stainless steel sword for 315 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 12: four dollars and seventy five cents and a nail cliper. 316 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 4: Probably says that probably says more about you because of 317 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 4: their algorithm than it does about FEMO. 318 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 12: Well, I'm looking to be fair, I'm using the Bloomberg 319 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 12: Radio Studio computer. 320 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 5: I haven't logged on myself. 321 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 12: But if they also have a nail clipper manicure set 322 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 12: for a dollar eighty six which has twenty three different 323 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 12: tools in it, so what a price. But you talk 324 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 12: to a guy in China who has a clipper company, right, 325 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 12: and he said he saw an opportunity during COVID. He 326 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 12: used to manufacture and probably still does products for other brands, 327 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 12: but now he's selling direct to consumer with this. 328 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's the big thing is that the Chinese 329 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 4: factories are really looking to diversify on you know where 330 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 4: they sell, uh, and so this this factory in particular, Yeah, 331 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 4: they made a lot of these components that were used 332 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 4: in name brand raizors like Wall or Remington. Those sorts 333 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 4: of things, and then they realized, you know what, we 334 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 4: could actually sell direct to consumer, especially during the pandemic 335 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 4: when people were giving themselves haircuts at home and getting 336 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 4: pets and they need to give it, you know, groom 337 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 4: the pets. So it basically gave life to this uh uh, 338 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 4: you know, direct to consumer push for this company. And 339 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 4: they had tried Amazon and they found that team who 340 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 4: was just a lot a lot simpler for them in 341 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 4: the sense that they weren't, you know, fighting for every 342 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 4: sale on Amazon and paying for all the advertising and 343 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 4: you know, you you really have to run a sophisticated 344 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 4: business to sell on Amazon. And they found it a 345 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 4: lot easier on Temu and Sense where they could just 346 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 4: send the blades to Timu and tim who took care 347 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 4: of everything. 348 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 2: So what's the fate or the expected fate of this 349 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 2: international tax exemption, this loophole, this eight hundred dollars loophole, 350 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 2: because that seems a central strategy for TEAMU in terms 351 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 2: of undercutting Amazon and pretty much everybody else. 352 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 4: That's the million dollar question right now. I mean, it's 353 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 4: not the only Evantage team who has it's certainly one 354 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 4: of them, and it certainly helped them be a differentiator, 355 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 4: and we're still not exactly sure what's going to happen. 356 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 4: You know, Trump made this mandate to eliminate the loophole, 357 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 4: but then backpedaled on it. You know, they have to 358 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 4: figure out exactly how this is going to work. And 359 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 4: once we know exactly how it's going to work, then 360 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 4: businesses are going to look for potentially other loopholes or 361 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 4: that sort of thing. So all of this stuff is 362 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 4: still shaking out. The bottom line is you could see 363 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 4: consumers take some price increases, you could see factories taking 364 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 4: a little bit less to try to share in the pain, 365 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 4: retailers cutting their profit margin. So generally, when these kind 366 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 4: of things hit, it's not like a one size fits 367 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 4: all solution. We'll see this. We'll see the pain of 368 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 4: any of these tariffs supply differently, you know, throughout throughout 369 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 4: all the players, depending on the position of strength that 370 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 4: they're in. 371 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 12: I mean, in reporting on this story, Spencer, did you 372 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 12: note that many of Amazon's products are made in China 373 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 12: as well. In fact, when I look through Amazon for 374 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 12: any specific goods, I tend to notice a lot of 375 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 12: brand names that I've never heard of or can't pronounce. 376 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 12: A lot of times they are just a bunch of 377 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 12: consonants thrown together. 378 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 5: And those products are all made in China. 379 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 12: So Jeff Bezos or you know, the other shareholders he 380 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 12: only owns nine percent now, are also going to fall 381 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 12: victim to this tax if if it's enacted. 382 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. What the difference here is Misson wants to offer 383 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 4: you quick delivery. So oftentimes what you buy on Amazon 384 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 4: is already in a warehouse in the US, meaning it 385 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 4: was you know, put on a big cargo container shipped 386 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 4: into to a US port, and the value of that 387 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 4: cargo container was above this demnimous loophole, so they paid 388 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 4: the tariff on those goods. The difference here is it's 389 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 4: being you know, packed in China to be shipped directly 390 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 4: to you, in which case, uh, you know, that individual 391 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 4: item is coming in under this eight hundred dollars de 392 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 4: minimous threshold, in which case no tariff supply. So that's 393 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 4: the big that's the big differentiator. I mean, so much 394 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 4: stuff is made in China, whether you buy it in 395 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 4: a store, on Amazon or whatever. The the you know, 396 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 4: source of a lot of these goods is still the same. 397 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 4: It's just a matter of the of the you know 398 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 4: how how it navigates into the US, all right? 399 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 2: Thanks to Spenser Sober, Bloomberg News Technology and e Commerce Reporter. 400 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 5: Each week we look at research from Bloomberg n EF. 401 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 5: They're the team at. 402 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 2: Bloomberg that tracks and analyzes the energy transition from commodities 403 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 2: to power, transport, industries, buildings, and agricultural sectors. This week 404 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 2: we look at how banks are currently financing the energy 405 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 2: transition for more. We were joined by Trina White, Bloomberg 406 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 2: b n e F Sustainable finance analyst. First ask Trina 407 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 2: how she looks at banks and how they finance energy projects. 408 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 13: So I focus on what's called our energy supplied banking ratios, 409 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 13: and that's where we put bank financing for traditional energy supplies, 410 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 13: so for fossil fuels things like yeah, coal, oil and 411 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 13: gas into the context of what they're doing on sort 412 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 13: of the newer energy and the cleaner energy side, so 413 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 13: low carbon technologies like wind, solar, batteries, hydro, et cetera. 414 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 13: So we take and nuclear, Yes, nuclear, we would consider 415 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 13: it to be low carbon as well, and so that 416 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 13: would be in the numerator and then we put that 417 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 13: into the context of their continued support for fossil fuels 418 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 13: and the denominator. And we're looking at this across both 419 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 13: you know, a global average and then also for individual institutions, 420 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 13: and of course that differs significantly by individol bank and 421 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 13: the market that they're operating. 422 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 12: So tell me about the change in sentiment that we've seen. 423 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 12: Because last uh, in the last administration a few years ago, 424 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 12: when we were watching Senate hearings of any kind with 425 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 12: bank CEOs, the Democrats especially would gang up on these 426 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 12: bankers and say, how can you finance fossil fuels? You know, 427 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 12: almost as if it was somehow illegal to finance the 428 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 12: operations of oil and gas companies. Now, it seems with 429 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 12: this new administration like you're gonna see the exact opposite happen. 430 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 12: Right as we see banks pull back from for example, DEI. 431 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 12: There's a great story in the Bloemberg terminal about that. 432 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 12: I wonder if we're gonna see banks also pull back 433 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 12: on funding of solar and wind and other renewables. 434 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,959 Speaker 13: So when Wynn was boring, you know, in the opposite direction, 435 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 13: and it was you know, very favorable both here in 436 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 13: the US and internationally for banks to make these you know, 437 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 13: really strong commitments to climate. We saw these climate alliances 438 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 13: for financial institutions take off. So in twenty twenty one, 439 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,239 Speaker 13: we saw all the major banks sign up to the 440 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 13: Net Zero Banking Alliance and sign on to reduce their 441 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 13: emissions in line with one point five degrees their financed emissions. 442 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 13: We've actually now seen all of the major US banks, 443 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 13: Canadian banks, and a couple of other international banks pull 444 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 13: out of the Net Zero Banking Alliance in just the 445 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 13: past few months, and that's in direct response to the 446 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 13: sort of switch in political pressure. None of these banks 447 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 13: have actually you know, pulled back their internal commitments and 448 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 13: particularly their sustainable financing commitments. So while they may see 449 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 13: it very very difficult to decrease their financed emissions and 450 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 13: their support for fossil fuels when you know the administration 451 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 13: is pushing a drill baby, drill agenda, none of these 452 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 13: banks want to, you know, stop supporting what they still 453 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 13: of you as the future, which is these low carbon technologies. 454 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 13: And so if it is profitable, if the returns are there, 455 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 13: they're still going to be financing when they're still going 456 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 13: to be financing solar. But that key question remains here 457 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 13: in the US is you know, will the tax incentives 458 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 13: that made some of these projects profitable, Will they remain 459 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 13: in an administration that's not prioritizing it. 460 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 2: What banks are doing well, maybe which banks are kind 461 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 2: of lagging. 462 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 13: Yeah, So a lot of the banks in Europe have 463 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 13: really high ratios for all the reasons we might expect 464 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 13: a favorable policy environment for renewables. They're not oil and 465 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 13: gas exporting countries. So BNP Pariba had a ratio of 466 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 13: more than three times as much low carbon financing as 467 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 13: fossil fuels. That's actually up from one point four in 468 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 13: twenty twenty two, and so they've more than doubled their ratio, 469 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 13: and they did that primarily by shrinking their support for 470 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 13: fossil fuels. So they said, we're not underwriting bonds for 471 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 13: oil and gas expanders anymore. That is a pretty European 472 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 13: specific strategy. That's not going to work for a Canadian bank. 473 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 13: It's not going to work for a US bank. Among 474 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 13: the US players, the highest ratio is about one point 475 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 13: zero four. So Bank of America financed about equal parts 476 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 13: low carbon solutions and fossil fuels, and that's primarily in 477 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 13: part because of their long standing participation in the labeled 478 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 13: debt markets, so underwriting green bonds or green loans. 479 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 5: I wonder about specifically the finances to support a nuclear 480 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 5: kind of revitalization. 481 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 12: I always think it's an exciting story because of the 482 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 12: vast amount of power it could provide, But it seems 483 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 12: like a moonshot in terms of how much it would 484 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 12: cost to build actually build nuclear plants, and how long 485 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 12: it takes, how much regulation red tape. 486 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 8: There is around it. 487 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 5: I mean, we saw I think one plant open in. 488 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 13: Georgia and three Mile Island and three. 489 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 12: Miland is going to come back on, right, But it 490 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 12: just takes so much money and time to get these 491 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 12: things going. 492 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 13: Yeah, that's absolutely right. I mean it is, you know, 493 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 13: great that nuclear is sort of comparable in what it 494 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 13: can power to cold right baseload and sort of dispatchable 495 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 13: and and and cheap once it you know, once it's 496 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 13: actually generating, it's just bids into the market and about 497 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 13: zero but very very expensive upfront, very expensive, a lot 498 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 13: of political capital, a lot of time actually a lot 499 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 13: of the sort of intermittent renewables are much easier to build, 500 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 13: much much easier overall to build solar and wind. But 501 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 13: then we run into you know interconnection problems, so and 502 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 13: intermittency issues where you need you know, battery storage to 503 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 13: make up the gaps. So there's always straight offs to 504 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 13: different types of energy. I think nuclear would be fantastic, 505 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 13: but you know, wind and solar are probably what BDF 506 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 13: projects to be kind of the majority of this low 507 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 13: carbon solution. 508 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 2: Our thanks to Trina White, Bloomberg b n e F 509 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 2: Sustainable Finance analyst. Coming up on the program, a conversation 510 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 2: with the founder and CEO of Token Metrics. 511 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 5: On the crypto space. You're listening to. 512 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 2: Bloom Burg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing in research and 513 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 2: data on two thousand companies and one hundred and thirty industries. 514 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 2: You can access Bloomberg Intelligence via b I go on 515 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 2: the terminal. 516 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 5: I'm Paul Sweeney. This is Bloomberg. 517 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch the program 518 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: live weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android 519 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen 520 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. 521 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 522 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 2: Move next to the retail giant Walmart. This week Walmart 523 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 2: forecast a lower than expected profit for the full year. 524 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 2: This suggests that the uncertain economic environment is hitting even 525 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 2: the world's largest retailer. For more, guest hosts Emily Grafe 526 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 2: and I were joined by Emily Cohne, Bloomberg Consumer team Leader. 527 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 2: We first asked Emily for her take on the latest 528 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:52,719 Speaker 2: at Walmart. 529 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 14: This was a consistent guidance in line with what they 530 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 14: laid out last year for the full year as well, 531 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 14: but signaled that the you know, the world's largest retailer, Walmart, 532 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 14: isn't immune to the risks that are out there for 533 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 14: the broader economic environment. Granted, Walmart has historically given conservative 534 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 14: outlook to start the year off, but this definitely showed, 535 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 14: you know, and they they used the word uncertain. I 536 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 14: haven't checked, but a number of times on their analysts call. 537 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 14: That was sort of like the theme of the call. 538 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 7: What else did they say for this, I guess we 539 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 7: could call it, yeah, conservative or negative outlook? Did they 540 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 7: mention it's because consumers are pulling back, people are looking 541 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 7: for bargains. I guess, like, what did we learn about 542 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,719 Speaker 7: the consumer in this report? 543 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 14: Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't negative. It was it was 544 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 14: in line with what they offered last year three to 545 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 14: four percent growth. But I think, you know, and I 546 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 14: think that's taking into account near term investments. So they 547 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 14: mentioned things is like consumer trends and near term investments 548 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 14: like the cost of the acquisition of the smart TV 549 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,959 Speaker 14: maker Visio. We're still seeing those costs take a hit 550 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 14: on the bottom line. But yeah, they said they haven't 551 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 14: incorporated yet the risk of tariffs into their guidance. We 552 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 14: also saw US retail sales dip in January and core 553 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 14: inflation pick up, So I think those are those are 554 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 14: all things that are weighing on retailers, and Walmart certainly 555 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 14: isn't immune. 556 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 2: How about on the tariff front, I mean they uh 557 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 2: am looking at your bloombergers right up here, talk about tariffs. 558 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 2: Walmart imports food from Mexico and general merchandise products like 559 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 2: microwaves in China. What are they saying about tariffs? Is 560 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 2: that incorporated in their guidance. 561 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 14: They said they have not incorporated tariffs into their guidance before. 562 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 14: Tariffs aren't new for a company like Walmart. Obviously, we 563 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 14: saw import tariffs, you know, during the last Trump administration. 564 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 14: But they're doing what we've seen most companies do so 565 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 14: far this year, which is say it's uncertain, we're not 566 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 14: sure what's going to happen, and we're not incorporating tariffs 567 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 14: into our guidance yet. But yeah, I mean, food prices 568 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 14: were up for them. General merchandising prices I think came 569 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 14: down a little bit. 570 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 7: I actually learned something new about Walmart, and that's that 571 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 7: you can buy a pre owned Chanel bag through their website. 572 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 7: So I guess they're getting into online sales. They're beefing 573 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 7: up their digital operation to include items like collectibles and 574 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 7: pre owned Chanel bags. Wow, you think about that, I 575 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 7: mean luxury items at like a discount retailer. 576 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 8: Yeah. 577 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 14: So Walmart is still small compared to Amazon, but in 578 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 14: terms of e commerce, but that's an area where they're 579 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 14: just continuing to see huge growth and e commerce in 580 00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 14: their their marketplace. So that's that that is something that 581 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 14: you'll continue to hear them talk a lot about and 582 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 14: there's a ton of upside there. Pharmacy delivery was another 583 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 14: one that they shouted out. That's a new business for them. 584 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 14: So these newer businesses continue to grow a lot for Walmart, 585 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 14: and they would say there's still a big runway there 586 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 14: when it comes to competing with Amazon. 587 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 2: It's interesting comparable sales excluding fuel rose four point six 588 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 2: percent at US Walmart, Star Wars open at least a 589 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 2: year for the quarter into January thirty first. That's higher 590 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 2: than Wall Street had been anticipating. So it doesn't seem 591 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 2: like the consumer per se, at least in this quarter, 592 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 2: was a problem. 593 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 5: The consumer was still spending. 594 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 14: So an interesting thing about the growth this quarter and 595 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 14: actually last quarter as well, was that growth was mostly 596 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 14: coming from higher income households. So households that are earning 597 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 14: more than one hundred thousand dollars a year, not the 598 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 14: person you typically think of as your average Walmart shopper. 599 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 14: These are like wealthier people who are looking for deals, 600 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 14: looking for value. Maybe they're coming to Walmart for groceries 601 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 14: as oppost to whole foods this quarter because prices on 602 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 14: food are so high. So that's really where the growth 603 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 14: is still coming from, our wealthier shoppers. 604 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 7: Does that tell you then that the consumers maybe weaker 605 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 7: if these high income people are having to move down 606 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 7: the spectrum, It's. 607 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 14: Possible, and I think, you know, we are looking forward 608 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 14: to the rest of the big Pox results coming this quarter. 609 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 14: We're looking at home depot, we're looking at Target. I 610 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 14: think they will tell us a bigger picture view of 611 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 14: how the US consumer is doing. But yes, I have 612 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 14: the same question, where are those shoppers coming from? Who's 613 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 14: losing here? 614 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 2: Our Thanks to Emily Cohen, Bloomberg Consumer Team Leader. We 615 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 2: move next to the crypto space, and I was recently 616 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: joined by crypto expert Ian Balina, founder and CEO of 617 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 2: Token Metrics. We discussed the state of crypto at the 618 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 2: start of the new Trump administration in the US and 619 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: how artificial intelligence is transforming the industry. I first asked 620 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 2: Ian about how the crypto community views the Trump administration 621 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 2: and their current stance on crypto. 622 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 15: The new Trump administration being pro crypto, they've mentioned that 623 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 15: they anticipate having procrypto regulation within six months, so long term, 624 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 15: this is amazing for crypto. For the first time in 625 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 15: his history, cryptos running downhill, not uphill. But in the 626 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,719 Speaker 15: short term there has been a large correction in crypto 627 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 15: from different sectors, from AI to DeFi, but crypto hasn't 628 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 15: really taken off as people had anticipated. Trump entering office 629 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 15: has led to essentially buy the room has seldom news, 630 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 15: but long term this is bullsh for crypto long term. 631 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 5: Well, how about you. 632 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 2: You mentioned distributed finance AI crypto A lot of stuff 633 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 2: wrapped up in that. Where do you see or where 634 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 2: are you and your clients and your vests. Where do 635 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 2: you see the most opportunity here? 636 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 15: AI? AI still has the most opportunity. If you just 637 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,239 Speaker 15: take the total crypto mind share in the last one 638 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 15: year or so peaked at about seventy percent being fully AI. 639 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 8: What does that mean? 640 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 15: That means the attention, the awareness in the crypto space 641 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 15: was solely focused on AI sector AI projects, from products 642 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 15: like A sixteen Z to products like ARC and others. 643 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 15: People are seeing what's happening in just tech in general 644 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 15: with open AI, XAI and know these other competitors, and 645 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 15: that's leading into a rising tide loops all both kind 646 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 15: of mentality in crypto in the crypto AI space because 647 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 15: people see AI as the future. But why it's beautiful 648 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 15: in crypto Crypto and AI are marriage made in heaven 649 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 15: because in a digital world with digital AI agents, you 650 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 15: have Sam Altman saying that AI agents is the biggest 651 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 15: narrative in all of tech for this year. 652 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 5: So define what that is. AI agents basically. 653 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 15: Other AI is working together as a team of AIS. 654 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 15: These teams of AI is working together, how do you 655 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 15: trust each other? That's what crypto is about, cryptos built 656 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 15: on cryptography, having people online transact through different currencies without 657 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 15: having to trust each other. Applying that to AI agents 658 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 15: to me, is does naturally makes sense. 659 00:33:59,120 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 4: Well. 660 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 2: One of the areas that I a lot of folks 661 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 2: that maybe aren't as involved in AI, in crypto, in 662 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 2: some of these new technologies is does there need to 663 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 2: be regulation? 664 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 5: If so, how much and by hume, where are we there? 665 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 15: Yes, there's definitely does need to be regulation in the 666 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 15: cryptic space, also in the AI space as well, but 667 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 15: not to a level what it stops or restricts innovation, 668 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 15: right because AI, as mentioned by the administration, is essentially 669 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 15: a national security issue. China is basically just flying, but 670 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 15: it's by the by their pants, and we can really 671 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 15: allow the US to become backwards in terms of technology 672 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 15: with AI and the same thing with crypto. So I 673 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 15: don't think restriction that inhibits innovation makes sense. That's why 674 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 15: I think David Sachs the AI cryptos are was actually 675 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 15: a pointed to that role. Those two are tied together, 676 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 15: AI and cryptoi tie together because for America to stay 677 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 15: forward as a company, as a country in terms of 678 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 15: the economy and just technology and advancement, they have to innovate. 679 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 15: And for the last almost eight years in crypto, with 680 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 15: the SEC and other different regulators, they have forced US 681 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 15: entrepreneurs offshore, and now by the administration wanting to make 682 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,919 Speaker 15: crypto or rather make America the crypto capital of the world, 683 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 15: they have to basically be open for business and they 684 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 15: have to welcome innovation, not try to social offshore. 685 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 2: So one of the uncertainties I guess of the Biden 686 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 2: administration was who in fact would regulate some of these technologies, 687 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 2: particularly across the crypto space. Was a Gary Gensler at 688 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,240 Speaker 2: the SEC. Was the CFTC, the Commodities Futures Commission Commission? 689 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 5: Where are we going now? 690 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 10: Where where's where's the. 691 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 15: Wind taking us now? Who's going to regulate this thing? 692 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 15: So right now it looks like it's basically a team effort. 693 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 15: It's both does CFTC kind of taken the lead and 694 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 15: also the SEC as well, But regardless of who's taking 695 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 15: the lead, they all have to really understand crypto at 696 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 15: a deep level. They can be crypto a sayers, yes, 697 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 15: they are risking and crypto. Yes, scripture is not perfect, 698 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 15: it's not ideal, it's new to technology is still being polished. 699 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 15: But you have to kind of take a very optimistic 700 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 15: approach in terms of seeing the future and the possibilities 701 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 15: of crypto. 702 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 2: So, you know, Bloomberg News did a story a couple 703 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 2: of quarters ago when every single one of the S 704 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 2: and P five hundred companies mentioned AI in their quarterly 705 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 2: earnings release and comments that that's up from like, you know, 706 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 2: a handful a quarter or two before that. Where do 707 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 2: you see the real I guess applications of AI where 708 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 2: most of us going to see it day to day? 709 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 5: How are you guys thinking about that? 710 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 15: So, what we're seeing with our customers and even people 711 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 15: in the cry crypto space is AI is unlocking a 712 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 15: completely new user experience. So, for example, take defined centralized 713 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 15: finance and crypto space, whether yield optimization, whether it's trading agents, 714 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 15: different complexities that you basically had to be a crypto 715 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 15: expert or quant expert to leverage. You can now just 716 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 15: use AI to help manage all that for you. 717 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 10: What does that mean? 718 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 15: Let's say you want to do a flash loan which 719 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 15: is basically complicated. Where in crypto of borring money and 720 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 15: making the trade and paying it back all in real time, 721 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 15: all in one transaction, very hard to execute. But now 722 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,359 Speaker 15: with AI in the same way how Chad GPD has 723 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:33,240 Speaker 15: unlocked and given everybody pretty much a PhD on their computer, 724 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 15: you can now have that same PhD person doing all 725 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 15: kinds of innovations in the quipment space, from trading to 726 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 15: investing to rebouncing your portfolio. For example, I talking abouts 727 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 15: we're building trading agents to allow people to trade crypto 728 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 15: using AI in a passive way. So we're seeing this 729 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,839 Speaker 15: completely unlock different elements that the average person didn't really 730 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 15: tap into or have access to. 731 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 5: And it's early in the Trump administration. 732 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,720 Speaker 2: Hell I guess domestic are folks in the crypto space 733 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 2: that President Trump and his team will in fact deliver 734 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 2: on being, you know, a very positive force for crypto. 735 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 15: Very very optimistic, because if you just kind of zoom 736 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,799 Speaker 15: out and see the history of crypto, crypto has grown 737 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 15: to become a three trillion dollar asset class. We think 738 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 15: it can go to about eight to fourteen trillion by 739 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 15: twenty twenty six. But that entire time it's been basically 740 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 15: pushed down by an anti procrypto regulation. Right, and now 741 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 15: crypto finally has a seat at the table. From the 742 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 15: Crypto Ball to the Crypto Council to the AI Crypto Zar, 743 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 15: there's finally a pathway to crypto having a seat at 744 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 15: the table and to crypto becoming a much bigger asset 745 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 15: class o. 746 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 2: Thanks to Ian Balina, founder and CEO of Token Metrics. 747 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, 748 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each 749 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 1: weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 750 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. 751 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube 752 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: and always on the Bloomberg terminal.