1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello, 4 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. Our 5 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: compatriot are Better Third is on a bit of an adventure, 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: but he will return shortly Better Third, Crucial, Third, Crucial Third. 7 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: In the meantime, they call me Ben. We are joined 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: as always with out a super producer, Paul Mission Controlled deconds. 9 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that 10 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know a 11 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: little bit of true crime today, Matt, Yeah, very true 12 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: and very crime, yes, and very much ongoing. So long 13 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: time listeners will remember that back in the day we 14 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: had Alex Winter on this show. That's right, Do you 15 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: remember that? Well? Yeah, absolutely. It was one of my 16 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: favorite interviews we've ever done, one of the Bill and 17 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: Ted of the Bill and Ted's excellent adventure and what 18 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: was the other one? The Bogus Journey, Bogus Journey, Bogus 19 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: Journey featuring death. But he's not just some silly young 20 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: kid running through time and trying to finish papers for 21 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: a history class. No, that gentleman Alex Winter. He is 22 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: a documentarian and he has put out some great work. 23 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: One was on the Deep Web or the dark Net, 24 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: and that's what we interviewed him for. And this this 25 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: guy incredibly nice, very generous with his time. Pockets. I 26 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: think that's still my favorite part of the interview. Did 27 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: that make it onto the air, I don't know. I 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: think we may have cut that part. There was a 29 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: part in the interview just backstage off Mike. It was 30 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: probably off Mike because we're professionals now or were He 31 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: He said, hang on, guys, he's making a very good 32 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: point about something. He said, hold on, hold on, hold on. 33 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: I said what and then we heard ding in the background. 34 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: It's like I'm making hot pockets, like, don't eat him, 35 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: it's too hot yet. Just wait, wait for a second. Yeah, 36 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: the wait. It was the worst part. We really bonded. Yeah. 37 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: He did Deep Web, which was a fascinating exploration of 38 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: something that I think a lot of people get wrong 39 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: when they read about it in the news. But that 40 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: is far from his only film. He also released a 41 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: documentary recently on the Panama Papers. Yes, the Panama Papers. 42 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: This is a topic that we've done an episode on before. 43 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: In the past it was called money Mystery and Millionaires. 44 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,399 Speaker 1: Very it was a very illiterated phase for us, Yeah, 45 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: it was. But the Panama papers were It's a very 46 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: serious thing. It was a leak, largest leak in human history, 47 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: something around eleven point five million files from dating back 48 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: to the seventies to or so. That's two point six 49 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: terabytes of data detailing these secret financial relationships and attorney 50 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: client privileged information, the kind of stuff you would never 51 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: ordinarily see. Yeah, it was dealing. You're talking about shell 52 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: companies and offshore accounts and secret just money moving, almost 53 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: laundering almost in some cases it was definitely laundry. Yes. 54 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: So this this all comes from a law firm in 55 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: Panama called Massak Fonseka. Yep, that's that's the one. And 56 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: um so you might wonder, well, why why on earth 57 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: would someone at Massak Fonseka send out that much information. Well, 58 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: there was a person who was identified as John Doe. Uh. 59 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: They were given to a German newspaper by this anonymous 60 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: person and then there was a landslide, essentially, a very 61 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: secretive landslide of information and people investigating kind of in 62 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: the shadows because this seemed like very dangerous stuff to have. Indeed, 63 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: indeed it did, because this involves over two hundred thousand 64 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: different offshore entities. And this John Doe spoiler alert folks, 65 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: that's probably not this person's real name. Canna. You know, 66 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and say, I probably agree, Yeah, yeah, 67 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: I wouldn't ordinarily profile but this, this character, this John 68 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: Doe person said that they themselves feared for their lives 69 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: because the nature of the evidence, just the facts, the 70 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: information that's involved in this league. In some cases it 71 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: confirmed long suspected crimes. We know this person is maybe 72 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: doing something very white collar like tax avoidance, but we 73 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: can't we can't quite prove it, we can quite follow 74 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: the money due to different um, different countries, ways of 75 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: handling financial transactions. That's a big thing, yes, And and 76 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: these types of financial transactions a lot of times in 77 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: our minds, I think collectively, we think of this as 78 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: something that maybe a drug lord would participate in, maybe 79 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: somebody who is doing some kind of illegal activity that 80 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: needs to, like we said, launder money for some reason. 81 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: But what we found out in these Panama papers is 82 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: that these kinds of activities are just kind of par 83 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: for the course, for anyone who has enough money, yeah, 84 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: above a certain threshold, it is normalized to engage in 85 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: these sorts of practices. And in our previous episode, which 86 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: you absolutely should listen to if you haven't checked it 87 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: out yet, in our previous episode, we explore how the 88 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: German paper came to find the safest way to disseminate 89 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: and analyze this info. We also found just how many 90 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: people had been to your pointment, how many people had 91 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: been named. These financial movements through shell companies involved athletes, 92 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: involved bankers, involved criminals you know, as in like drug 93 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: cartel overlords and stuff. But it also involves politicians. British 94 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: Prime Minister David Cameron was implicated in this, and the 95 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: Icelandic Prime Minister sigmundrgonlug Son had to resign. I believe 96 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: he ultimately stepped down. Also a lot of these transactions 97 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: that we see moving money from one shell company to 98 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: another to get the best tax position. That stuff is legal. 99 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: It's a legal thing. Um, yeah, then what are you 100 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: gonna do about it? Right? I mean, it's just we're 101 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: the big players of the world and this is what 102 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: we're doing. If it's if it's proven to be tax avoidance, 103 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: then it's illegal. If it's just moving money around and 104 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: make sure it's safe in Switzerland somewhere or animal that's fine. Sure, 105 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: it's just gambling. And you know, Vegas baby, that's what 106 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: that's probably what people say. That's what they That's what 107 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: they all say in Panama. Vegas baby, That's what they 108 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: all say. That's what they all say in the country 109 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: of Panama. And I'll say, Vegas baby. Why is this 110 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: a big deal though? If these things are legal, if 111 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: it's just a depiction of a confidential, yet still legal 112 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: financial process, what gives where's the beef? Because not all 113 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: of it is legal? That's right, Yeah, yeah, multiple cases 114 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: that transactions indicate some pretty heavy stuff. Perhaps most importantly, 115 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: the Panama papers show the clear process through which these 116 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: sorts of financial crimes occur. It's possible using this information 117 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: to follow money from point A to B, to C 118 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: to Z and so on. That is in itself extraordinary. 119 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: So from a criminal perspective, this exposes a large industry 120 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: built entirely to hide money. Whether it's a legal form 121 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,679 Speaker 1: of tax avoidance, whether it's out and out fraud, whether 122 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: it's bribery disguised as a loan, which I thought was 123 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: interesting and and I think you're you're hitting the nail 124 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: on the head here, Ben. It's not even so much 125 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: about the players that are essentially the clients moving money. 126 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: It's about the system like the at Massa Fenseka that 127 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: was built to do this thing, the giant, I don't 128 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: know what we call it, the machine that ends up 129 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: processing everything. That's where that's that can be dangerous. Yeah, 130 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: that's that's what I'm thinking too. So for instance, let's 131 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: let's go with the an automobile analogy. All right, So 132 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: the people riding in the car, or are the people 133 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: named in these transactions gasoline or petrol or whatever, is 134 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: the money just get pumping in, Okay. And what the 135 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: Panama papers showed us was the engine. It took us 136 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: under the hood. And so we see how the money moves, 137 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: and we know it takes these people to certain places. Right, 138 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: And I don't want to overthink this comparison. Maybe the 139 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: passengers are the money. The engine is the machine that's 140 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: moving it to somewhere because the money is going places, right. Yeah. Okay, 141 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: then and you're you're you're spending money to do it. Yes, Okay, 142 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: that's right. So the the money is also the gas. Okay, 143 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: let's get a whiteboard. Paul, do we have a whiteboard? Wait? Wait, 144 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: Paul has been writing all of this down. He's just 145 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: been etching it into the wall. That's very helpful. We 146 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: are going to have to replace that to the Paul. 147 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: You know, it needs to be transparent. This terrible comparison 148 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: we've created should exist for all time. It wasn't that bad. 149 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: I thought it was great, but the release of these 150 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: papers was not great for the folks involved. It was 151 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: not all sunshine and rainbows on their end. No. Absolutely, 152 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: And you can kind of feel that Ben and I 153 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: are having fun in the studio and this is one 154 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: of those topics that is going to get very heavy. 155 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: We just I think that's something that Ben, you and 156 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: I do when we're talking about something that's pretty heavy. 157 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: Just give a little lightness to it, but prepare yourself. 158 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. This is a bit of the 159 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: I called it. I used to call it the MPR 160 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: story formula, but it's not not really MPR. It's more 161 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: programs that are on NPR, like the Moth or something. 162 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: So what you do is you start out with a 163 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: lighthearted statement or something very bold and one sentence got it, 164 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: and then you save the heavy stuff for the turn 165 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: at the end. And this is where we're approaching the 166 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: turn to our second half, folks, because when that German 167 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: paper student Deutsche is a Tongue, received the original leak 168 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: and they realized the size of the stuff they were 169 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: dealing with, they started, as you said, Matt, secretly asking 170 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: for help throughout the journalistic community, because we need multiple 171 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: sources to confirm this stuff is true. First off, that 172 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: we know this is even real. If so, how that's 173 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: a long, arduous, tedious process. And John Doe complicated it 174 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: because John John Doe, fearing for their life, had certain conditions. Yeah, 175 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: they could only or he could only communicate with them 176 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: and them back through encrypted channels, which is I would 177 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: say kind of standard for this kind of thing, is 178 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 1: very Edwards Snowden in a way, um, almost like digitally 179 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: putting your cell phone in the freezer. They could also 180 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: never meet face to face, so neither side would know 181 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: exactly I guess who they were talking to. Well, in 182 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: this case, I'm sure John Doe knew some of the 183 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: names of the journalists, um. And you could definitely see 184 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: through his actions, just how scared this John Doe was 185 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: about his actions and about the power that these papers held. 186 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: And as of today, we still know very very little 187 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 1: about this this individual or this group of people pretending 188 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: to be an individual. We simply know that they treated 189 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: this situation with enormous gravity, and we we still publicly 190 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: don't know their motivation for disseminating this this knowledge. But 191 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: as it turns out, John Doe, whoever he or she 192 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: or they may bee, was absolutely correct. This was indeed 193 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: a life or death situation. And the story continued after 194 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: we did our original episode. So what do we mean 195 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: when we say life or death? We'll tell you after 196 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. 197 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: We'd like to introduce you to Daphne Carora Galicia. She 198 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: was born August. She was Maltese journalist. She was an 199 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: author and an activist, and she was also a just 200 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: a prolific blogger. Um the she's basically the I know, 201 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: you could call her a classic trope of the uh 202 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: no excuses, I'm gonna tell truth to power investigative journalists, 203 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: essentially just functioning on her own and with organizations. But 204 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: definitely you could you could read you could read her 205 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: passion for that kind of stuff in her blog and 206 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: if you're interested in it right now you can, like 207 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: as we're talking about this, yeah, you can go over there. 208 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: Let me just pull it up really fast. The website 209 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 1: is Daphne d A p h n E Caruna c 210 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,839 Speaker 1: A r u A n A Galiza g A l 211 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: I z i A dot com and you can go 212 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: there right now and you can just see all of 213 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: these posts that she made, and like I said, you 214 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: can you can see her passion. And she spent decades 215 00:13:55,559 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: building her reputation in Malta and abroad, primarily for investigations 216 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: into what she saw as the corruption riddled government, society 217 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: and industry of Malta. She examined things like the link 218 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: between Malta's online gambling and organized crime, or something called 219 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: the citizenship by Investment scheme also known as golden visas. 220 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: And this, this one was an interesting one because this 221 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: happens in a ton of countries. This happens in the US, 222 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: This happens in the UK. If you pay a certain 223 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: amount of money, or you by paying, we mean in 224 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: some cases, if you invest in a company or something 225 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: at a certain amount of money, maybe a hundred thousand dollars, 226 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: probably probably more. I mean it sounds like it's a 227 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: good starting point, and then you get residency and eventually 228 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: you get citizenship. This is a legal thing. It's of course, 229 00:14:55,320 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: it's incredibly unfair. Most most citizenship requests that are granted 230 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: every year are not this. This is this is a 231 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: wealthy person's loophole. Yes, right, So the problem with a 232 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: happening in Malta is that because they remember the EU 233 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: UH there was concerned that they would they were essentially 234 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: selling passports to people who would be maybe unfriendly, unfriendly 235 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,359 Speaker 1: to the West. But because they had an EU passport, 236 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: they could do things like travel to the US without 237 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: a visa, and they could also launder some money as well, 238 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: because with citizenship comes certain rights. Yes, she was on 239 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: the trail of all kinds of money laundering throughout her career. Um, 240 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: and also you know, kind of some other standard things 241 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: like nepotism within government, within corporations, um, government corruption, which 242 00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: is an old standby, especially in Malta. Yeah, she was. 243 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: She was really speaking truth to power, and she paid 244 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: for it. Malta is not a large nation, that's right. 245 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: A lot of people know each other she was the 246 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: target of intimidation, lawsuits, threats of lawsuits for libel and 247 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: so on. For most of her career. She was rested 248 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: by the multi police force. Twice. Someone set the front 249 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: door of their house on fire, and that's that's really bad. 250 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: The worst one is that the the family dog, her 251 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: family's dog had its throat cut and it was laid 252 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: across her doorstep and then another dog got shot, I believe, 253 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: so there was a murder attempt on her life. In 254 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: two thousand and six, the house was set on fire 255 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: while the family was asleep inside. And according to her 256 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: son Matthew, these threats occurred on an almost daily basis, 257 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: So this is a very high stakes life. Every day, 258 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of people are following her blog Running Commentary, 259 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: and she's also a regular contributor and calumness for the 260 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: Sunday Times of Malta, the Malta Independent. And just to 261 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: point that out, what what Ben just said, they're the 262 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: Running Commentary. Is the name of the blog that we 263 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, Yes, yeah, yeah, the website is ww dot 264 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 1: dafne Carona Galizia dot com, but the name of it 265 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: is Running Commentary. So far we've painted the picture of 266 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: a fascinating journalist, right and the largest leak in human 267 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: history that we know of. How are they related other 268 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: than just accurate journalism. They're related because it turns out 269 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 1: that Galizia was the first person to learn about Panamanian 270 00:17:52,800 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: companies involved in various crimes by Maltese nationals and specifically politicians, 271 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: specifically politicians active politicians, politicians in power. And she had 272 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: put these pieces together before the Panama papers leaked. They 273 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: were transmitted to the German paper in they went public 274 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: in twenties sixteen. But she had figured out some aspects 275 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: of this, and the stuff she had figured out was 276 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: confirmed by these by by these Panama papers leaking. Yeah. 277 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: So back in February, seen she was talking about this guy, 278 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: Conrad Mizzy or Measy. He was a Multese government minister 279 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: and he had connections, or at least she's hinting that 280 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: he had connections to New Zealand and Panama. Two of 281 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: the places that we found in the Panama papers were 282 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: laundering money or at least involved in some of those things. 283 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: Um and then apparently uh he Mizzy revealed the trust 284 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: just two days after she started hinting at this stuff, 285 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: and he was claiming that, uh, it was meant to 286 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: manage his family's assets, which is one of like his 287 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: involvement with these things. And that is one very common 288 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: thing that we see. The very very wealthy a lot 289 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: of times have assets that are tied up in familial relations, inheritance, 290 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: things like that, massive amounts of money and they have 291 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: to be protected. And it's okay, all right, I was 292 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: just trying to be nice, Yeah, I get it. That 293 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: same month, though, in February, this journalist also revealed that 294 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: the Prime Minister's chief of staff a guy named Keith Shembre, 295 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: and the Prime Minister is Joseph Muskett at this time 296 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: owned they owned a similar trust in New Zealand, which 297 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: in turn held a Panamanian shell company. The leak confirmed 298 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 1: that Mizzy Conrad Mizzy owned a company called Herneville Incorporated, 299 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: and that Mizzy and this guy Sembri also opened another company, 300 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: Tilligate Incorporated. These companies were owned by the Orion Trust 301 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: New Zealand Limited, which are the same trustees of Mizzy 302 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: and Shimbree's New Zealand Trust and a couple of other things. Yeah, 303 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: so again, that sounds really confusing. Yeah, Basically, these guys 304 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: opened front companies or shell corporations, not necessarily front companies, 305 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: those are different things, but they're shell corporations that exist 306 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: in these other companies other countries. And that's what we 307 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: know for sure. That's what we know that has proven 308 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: that is true. And again Galicia was the person who 309 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: exposed this information in Malta, and she continued in twenty seventeen, 310 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: she alleged that another Panamanian company called a Grant was 311 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: owned by Michelle Muscott, the wife of the Prime Minister. 312 00:20:54,680 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: These allegations or what ostensibly compelled Muscott to call general 313 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: elections in and he still won. He still won the election. 314 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: The last blog post that Galizia leaves, the last sentence 315 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: of the last blog post that she would ever write, 316 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: says there are crooks everywhere you look. Now the situation 317 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: is desperate. Then on October it was the last time 318 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: Matthew Coruna Galiza saw his mother alive. This is this 319 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: is her son. She was out running errands. She was 320 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: just heading to the bank in her car, who was 321 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: a gray Peugeot eight. It's a type of vehicle. And um, 322 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: apparently a government minister had gotten the courts Uh, you know, 323 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: perhaps out of some kind of backlash. We I don't know, um, 324 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: but he had gotten the courts to freezer bank accounts, 325 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,959 Speaker 1: and you was intending to fight for access to her 326 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: funds because it's her money. Then her son, seemingly out 327 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: of nowhere, heard an explosion. He was only about eighty 328 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: meters away from where this explosion occurred, and according to Matthew, 329 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: he immediately knew, at least he felt at least that 330 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: this was a car bomb and it was meant for 331 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: his mother. Yes, which is it is something that sounds 332 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 1: like maybe a strange conclusion to jump to right away. 333 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: I imagine the imagine there had to have been some 334 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 1: outward Um, I don't want to say paranoia. I mean, 335 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: I'm sure it would man manifest from the outside as 336 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: as paranoia, but from the inside, it was just knowing 337 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 1: the truth of her situation. Maybe this was also not 338 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: the first time even that year that a car bomb 339 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: had been used as a tool of assassination. This was 340 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: the sixth time. That would have been five have more 341 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: car bombing attacks, uh, some with survivors from one in 342 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: January September October. Uh. Yeah, it was a messy, messy business. 343 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: What we're saying is he would have also already have 344 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: heard about something like a car bomb being used this way. 345 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: So he's standing there, this explosion occurs, He's only eighty 346 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: meters away. He starts running down the road. He's barefoot. 347 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: He's frantically calling his mother's cell phone. He heard a 348 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: car horn blazing, he smelled burning fuel, and then he 349 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: saw it. It was his mom's car. It was on 350 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 1: fire and it was just sitting there on fire in 351 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: a field of wildflowers. And he apparently saw pieces of 352 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: flesh laying on the ground, and he certainly feared the worst, 353 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: and he was right. And then Matthew um her Son 354 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: recounted this horrific scene in a social media post. In there, 355 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: you know, within that post, he's he's speaking to the 356 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: authorities in a negative manner, saying that they allowed for 357 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: this culture of impunity to fester and inside Malta, saying 358 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: that this guy Joseph Muscat, these other people that we've mentioned, uh, 359 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: Keith Schimbrie, Chris Cardona, Conrad Mizzy, even the Attorney General 360 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: Peter Gretsch, and basically this huge list of police commissioners. 361 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: He was saying all of these people took no action, 362 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: and they were he was saying that they were complicit 363 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: in her death. It's true that being a journalist is 364 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: globally speaking, a dangerous business. Dozens of journalists are murdered 365 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: every year around the world, and usually we're seeing that 366 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: happen in places that are war zones or spheres of conflict, 367 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: or countries with a weak rule of law or weak 368 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: protections for freedom of speech. This was a massive shock 369 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: to a lot of people in the West because the 370 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: European Union considers itself a haven for journalism in many ways, 371 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: so this felt blatant, public and grizzly. It was not 372 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: just meant to remove a person, much like polonium poisoning. 373 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 1: It was meant to send a message. And I'm making 374 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: the polonium reference not to say that this was a Russian, 375 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: a Russian manufactured hit, but just to say, you know, 376 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: there was visibility was meant to be part of it. 377 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: It was condemned in editorials from some of the most 378 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: widely followed, well respected news sources around the world. You know, 379 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: all the hits, The New York Times, CNN, Financial Times, 380 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: the Guardian, the Economists. I believe after her death and 381 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: International Consortium of Journalists launched the Daphne Project, which was 382 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: coordinated by Forbidden Stories. Forbidden Stories as a Paris based 383 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: organization dedicated to continuing the work of killed or imprisoned journalists. 384 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: Even Julian Assange weighed in. Yeah, he announced that he 385 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 1: was gonna pay twenty thousand euro reward essentially for any 386 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: information leading to the conviction of Coruna Galiza's killers. That's 387 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: a that's a huge deal that Julia Sanders would step 388 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: up and do that. Um Galiza's family then filed a 389 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: legal claim against the police force in Malta, and they 390 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: allege that the investigation or whatever investigation is occurring, has 391 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: not been independent or impartial because of connections between a 392 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: senior police investigator and a government minister. Because again all 393 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: those people she implicated and had things to say about there, 394 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: they have the potential to have influence within the the 395 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: law enforcement sphere and both were subjects of Coruna Gliza's 396 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 1: block exactly and where does this leave us now? So 397 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: the facts so far are that the pad Mop papers leak, 398 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: they confirm what a long time investigative journalist slash activist 399 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: has said in the country of Malta, and after numerous 400 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: attempts on her life, she dies. One of the murder 401 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: attempts works. So what what happens next will tell you 402 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsor. So fast forward. Ten 403 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: people were arrested in raids at dawn on December four 404 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: seen in relation to this murder investigation, which was at 405 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: the time quite controversial because the journalists around the world 406 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: and journalists support associations. The survivors of Galiza's death, they all, 407 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: they all are convinced that there is a cover up 408 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: a foot and you can't really blame them. Eventually, three 409 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: people were charged for the murder for committing the acts 410 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: of rigging a car bomb and detonating and his brother's 411 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: named George and Alfred di Giorgio and Vincent Muscott. Despite 412 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: all these protests in Malta and abroad, it appeared that 413 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 1: the government of the country was indeed factually was actually 414 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: dragging its feet in the investigation. The three suspects claimed 415 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: their arrest and searches violated their fundamental rights, which in 416 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: practice worked as a way of delay in the trial. 417 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: And now it leads us to the Panama Papers in 418 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: twenty nine because years after the leak, you have to 419 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: wonder how much this has actually changed the situation on 420 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,719 Speaker 1: the ground. It's something you and I talked about in 421 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: the first episode of The Papers. I mean, these things, 422 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: these things blow up, right, and this information is revealed, 423 00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: but those shell companies, except for a few agree to swinds, 424 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: are still around. Yeah. It definitely reminds me of the 425 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: financial crash of two thousand seven two thousand eight where 426 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: we we as a human people, saw the cracks in 427 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: the system and the blatant holes in the system and 428 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: the way the machine itself was rigged um and yet 429 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: nothing really changed. I think there there was one arrest 430 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: I could tell I know of, and maybe they're a 431 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: handful of arrests in that situation. And it's the same 432 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: with the Panama Papers. There was a man named Richard Gaffney. 433 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: He was He lived in Massachusetts. He was an accountant. 434 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: He was apprehended in two thousand eighteen in December. That 435 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: was the first The first arrest occurred from the Panama 436 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: Papers in the US in December. Uh. I mean there 437 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: have been there again, there have been a handful of 438 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: people who have gotten in various levels of trouble throughout 439 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: the world because of the Panama Paper, as some politicians 440 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: have stepped down at least in part due to the 441 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: Panama Papers coming out, or at least UM had to apologize. 442 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: I remember when David Cameron had this whole story. It 443 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: was the same thing with you know, this is my 444 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: family's money and it's just in a trust and we're 445 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: just moving it around Vegas. Baby. Yeah, there we go. 446 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: That's what that was what Cameron said, it's mostly his 447 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: black check money. Yeah. Well, but but the United States 448 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: is different from in Malta. Um, it's different from New Zealand. 449 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: It's different from in Panama where it's actually occurring. Um. 450 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: And in Malta there is a clear issue. Yes, we'll 451 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: put it simply. The people who are in charge of 452 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: investigating this murder are the people that Galizia was investigating 453 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: when she was alive, or they're closely affiliated with the 454 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: people that she accused of cover ups crime and even 455 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: thinks range into support a violent crime. It's like a 456 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: waterfall of paychecks. Basically, who signs your paycheck well and 457 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: goes all the way up, oh exact, turtles all the 458 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: way down. Yeah, and their terror all the way down. Perhaps, 459 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: and you can't blame people for saying there's something screwery 460 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: with his investigation. One I think when the Prime Minister 461 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: continued to pursue a libel case against against Galicia after 462 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: she was dead and said he would drop it if 463 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: everyone agreed that he that he's cool and he didn't 464 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: do anything right. Uh. And I'm laughing with a bitter 465 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: note here, because you see, at this point it's widely 466 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: agreed that these three men who are currently in custody 467 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: for this crime. Uh, it's widely agreed that they were 468 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: not the brains behind the operation. They are all they're 469 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: all slightly older, low level criminals, most mostly known for 470 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: their activity in the diesel smuggling business, which is a 471 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: big business at Malta. So who is at the top, 472 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: you know, someone who would be we were looking then 473 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: in that case, we're looking for someone who fits a 474 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: couple of descriptions or a couple of profiles. We're looking 475 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: for someone who has enough money or enough you know, 476 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: financial clout such that they would be a subject of 477 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: something in the Panama papers. They have to be shell 478 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: company rich, right, Probably not an elected official. It might 479 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: be a one step removed from elected officials. Sure, yeah, 480 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: it might be somebody who bought a passport, who knows 481 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: and travels internationally. But there's somehow involved in Altese business, 482 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: because otherwise Alicia wouldn't have run up against them, you 483 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: know what. A right, So it's someone who is probably 484 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: on international sphere, maybe in politics, but definitely closely related 485 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: to someone in politics. Let's say they at the very 486 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: least have an interest in Maltese governance, right, there were 487 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: some regulations, and they're not the type of person to 488 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: go out and rig a car bomb themselves. They probably 489 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: are quite possibly not to be unfair to this horrific 490 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: excuse for a person, but they probably don't know how 491 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: to rig a car bomb. I I would agree with that. 492 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: So the investigation and the cover up continues. We mentioned 493 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: earlier these three criminals had said their rights were violated. 494 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: As of February when we're recording this, it seems that 495 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: the trial may finally begin. That's right, begin, Yeah, and 496 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: and it's so it's good right that was seen when 497 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: they argued that their rights are being violated. Now, two 498 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: years later later, the investigations going on, the police are 499 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: actually trying to find more suspects connected with the murder, 500 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: so trying to go up that chain to see who 501 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,280 Speaker 1: actually ordered it. And this includes people who are suspected 502 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: to be linked with the commissioning. That's, like we said, 503 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: the not the putting together the bomb, but the commissioning 504 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: of the bomb. And uh. Foreign investigators have questioned the 505 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: reluctance of the multest police to kind of keep that 506 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: keep this trial going and make it happen um. And 507 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: they've also questioned the reluctance of them to proceed against 508 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 1: more suspects because that's where it could get really tricky 509 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: for for the police themselves. That's where you get a 510 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: little True Detective season one, right, following up the chain, 511 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: up the food chain of crime. Yeah, it's believed that 512 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: there may be between three and five other people who 513 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: have who are known to the police, are known to 514 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 1: law enforcement, but have not been publicly revealed. The argument 515 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: being that they're not slowing up the investigation on purpose, 516 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 1: they just need to gather more evidence at this point 517 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: against controversial thing. A lot of people don't believe the story. 518 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: A lot of European news outlets still follow the investigation 519 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: and the trial. There's an Italian daily paper called lah 520 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: Republica and it's been following a um. It's been barking 521 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: up a specific theory tree that may be of interest 522 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: to people who are familiar with this case or just 523 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: learning about it. The suspects in the murder, the diesel 524 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: fuel smugglers. It seems a very strange and specific type 525 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: of crime. They apparently, according to this paper, have a 526 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: connection with someone called Christian Cardona, Malta's current Minister of 527 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:15,280 Speaker 1: Economics Economy Minister. In the weeks leading up to Galicia's assassination, 528 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:20,399 Speaker 1: this guy, Christian Cardona, was spotted in a remote bar 529 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: on Malta twice with one of the guys who was 530 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: later charged with detonating the car bomb. Cardona responded calling 531 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: this report baseless, conjecture and outright fabrication. Officially, Kurt Ferrugia, 532 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: spokesperson for the Maltese government, stated, the government is confident 533 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: that anyone else responsible will be found and brought to justice. 534 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: We continue to support all efforts by the police and 535 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: investigating magistrate to find the truth. Malta is committed to 536 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: upholding human rights, freedom of speech, the protection of journalists, 537 00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: and the rule of law. Well, who doesn't agree it 538 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: sounds like great pr um, but you know Galizia's family 539 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: does not agree with this, I think fairly obviously. And 540 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: we know this because Matthew, her son uh was quoted 541 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: in The Atlantic who By the way, Matthew is a 542 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 1: Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. Pretty awesome. Apple did not fall 543 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: far from the tree there um. But he, Matthew and 544 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: his two brothers have been lobbying European lawmakers and like 545 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: all these international organizations, four months and months and months 546 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: trying to call attention to problems within the investigation itself. 547 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: So let's let's look at that quote. Matthew said, my 548 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: mother was assassinated for reporting on corruption in Malta. And 549 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 1: he also sent out a tweet on the anniversary of 550 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 1: her death. He said, the people who did it are 551 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 1: still free. They sit in parliament and on private jets. 552 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: It's this simple. Wow. Yeah, it's it's heavy hitting. The 553 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: investigation continue us, as does on some level the cover up. Absolutely. 554 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 1: Some people are a little more optimistic than others and 555 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: think that ultimately the brains behind the operation will be 556 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: named were brought to justice. But for many other people, unfortunately, 557 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: this is just another day in Malta. I know, not 558 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: to sound Chinatown about it. Well, and it's also another 559 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: day in the upper echelons of power and influence. That's true, 560 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: That is absolutely true. At this point, that's where the 561 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: story ends. For now. It continues, and hopefully one day 562 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: we can come back with an update showing that justice 563 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: was served. But for now, we want to hear from you. 564 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,279 Speaker 1: Why do you think these financial crimes and and these 565 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: sorts of assassinations come and go so quickly in the news. 566 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: Why do you think there's not more following up on 567 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,240 Speaker 1: the Panama papers here in the United States? Yeah? Please, 568 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: we we want to know those things. Do you think 569 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: it has something to do with the connection or maybe 570 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: a crossroad somewhere between politics and organized crime. We'd like 571 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: to hear from you. If you know anything, be very 572 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: careful about writing to us, but we would love to 573 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: hear it. Um. You know, if not, send it to 574 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: a journalist somewhere within your country, just do it carefully. Um. 575 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: If you want to find us on social media and 576 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: connect with us that way, we are at conspiracy stuff 577 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: in most places, at conspiracy stuff show on Instagram, then 578 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,359 Speaker 1: you have a personal Instagram. That's true, it is at 579 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: Ben Bowlen in a burst of unbridled creativity at Ben 580 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,479 Speaker 1: Bowlen h s W. No, it's at Ben Bowlen. Oh 581 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: that's awesome. I am not I have one, but you 582 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 1: will never find it right right, it's it's enormously difficult 583 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: to locate. You don't want to see it. It's just 584 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: pictures of my son and I. And if you don't 585 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: want to connect with us that way, you can find 586 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: our Facebook group. Yes, here's where it gets crazy, where 587 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: you can hang out with our favorite part of the show, 588 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: your fellow listeners. You. It's also a great spot to 589 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 1: pitch us and ideas for future topics, or to get 590 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: some feedback from other people about a weird thing you 591 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: saw in the news, because it's cool to crowdsource. That's 592 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: that kind of fact checking, you know what I mean. 593 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: And we have the greatest mods on the planet, and 594 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: we have some top notch mods. That's their MATTERI is 595 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: beyond compare. And let's say you're someone who says, yeah, 596 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: I've I've got something you need to know. I want 597 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: to tell you, but I'm more of an audio person. Well, 598 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 1: we have good news for you. You can call us directly. 599 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: We are one eight three s t d W y 600 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: t K. That's right, it's not that creepy. It's just 601 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: an acronym for stuff they don't want you to know, 602 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,879 Speaker 1: and it becomes numbers. When you type it in your phone, 603 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: you'll see okay, so leave us a message there. We 604 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 1: will listen to it and it might get on the 605 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: show if you make it weird enough. It's like, make 606 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:21,360 Speaker 1: it super weird. You're opening the door my friend s 607 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: creative with, is what I'm saying. Yeah, if none and 608 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: if none of that, fight bags your badgers, have no fear. 609 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,359 Speaker 1: We are still squarely in the world of email. You 610 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,359 Speaker 1: can write to us directly. We are conspiracy at how 611 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com.