WEBVTT - How Wildfires Work 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.560 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:16.400 from House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:21.439 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.439 right over there, and this is stuff you should not 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.200 That was my Shatner. I told you I worked with him, 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:33.199 I think on a podcast. Right. He was puffy and 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:36.479 stuff in a suit. He's nice though, right, he was 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:40.560 super nice. And heck I uh, every time I'm wearing 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:42.240 wear a suit, I'm puffy and stuff in a suit. 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:50.199 So I'm poured into my suits, poured in liquid. That's great. So, 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:55.920 and that's absolutely not true, by the way, Chuck. Yes, Um, 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:57.760 I have a couple of stories for you. I have 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:00.600 a specific story for you. But you have this too, right, 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:05.280 did I give you this? Okay? So? Um? In uh 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:10.199 two thousand two right, there is a guy who worked 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.039 for the Bureau of Indian Affairs and he was a 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:19.480 firefighter for them. Right, he went onto the Arizona Apache 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:26.839 Reservation and he started a wildfire intentionally. So he's an arsonist. Yes, 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.760 he's not an arsonist for fun or because he's crazy, 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.759 Um or what was it? Uh? He was curious, highly curious. 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:40.400 Remember that was a trade, that was trade curiosity setting fires. Um. 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:44.320 He wanted to work, right, Leonard greg Leonard greg was 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:50.080 his name. Um, he uh set this fire and unbeknownst 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:54.120 to him, at the same time you do. There's a woman, 0:01:54.800 --> 0:02:00.120 um who had run out of gas not too far away, right, um, 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.960 and she saw that there was a news helicopter covering 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.840 the fire that Leonard greg had just said. She didn't 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.520 know about either, but she didn't feel like walking, or 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:11.840 she felt like she couldn't walk, so she set a 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.040 fire to try to get the attention of the news 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.040 helicopter so it would come rescue her so she didn't 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:22.799 have to walk to go get gas. That's pretty amazingly awful. So, UM, 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:27.000 I guess her last name was chet is Key. Because 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:31.040 the Rodeo Fire, which is what they called the fire 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:37.560 that Leonard Gregg started, collided with the Chetisky fire, and um, 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:41.960 it was a conflagration. Ultimately four hundred and sixty seven 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:47.960 thousand acres burned, including four and it was the largest 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.680 fire in Arizona's history. And this is two thou So Greg, 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:53.520 I don't know what happened to the woman, but Greg 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.720 was found guilty of arson since the ten years in 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:00.080 order to pay twenty eight million dollars, which as an 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.600 occasional firefighter for the Bureau of Indian Affairs, I would 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.600 imagine he didn't have. Yeah, when that never happens. You 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.880 always see that, like their awards so and so this, 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.800 and they just don't pay. It's just like a symbolic award. 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.880 I guess you'll know you'll never make more than your 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.760 wages again kind of thing. Yeah, but what's crazy is 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.960 not just that this lady set this fire because she 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.400 wanted to get the attention of a news copter, or 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:28.240 that this guy set a fire because of a desire 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:32.080 to get work to put the fire out, but because 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.280 they're not the only people who have done stupid stuff 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.760 like this. They follow in a long, grand tradition of 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:43.440 people who have set wildfires for all sorts of different reasons, 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.320 and a lot of them to get work. Yeah, you 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.560 have a list here, And of course we're not we're 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:50.440 going to praise the firefighters, not like we're saying a 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:52.800 lot of these firefighters starting fires. But it does happen 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.600 more than you would think. I I imagine we'll probably 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.720 throw some more out later on. But first, chuckers, right, 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:06.200 let's get to wildfires, how they work, what affects them. 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.520 The fire triangle. Yeah, we should probably start with the 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:15.440 fire triangle because it relates to not just forest fires 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:20.359 or wildfires, but all fires. All fire, Josh requires three things. 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:25.839 Um fuel obviously to burn air, to get oxygen to 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.400 the fire, because we know that, we all knows, we 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.240 all know that makes the fire burn hotter and bigger. 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.320 And then the heat source to bring the fuel to 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.840 the ignition temperature to begin with. And they call that 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:42.160 the fire triangle. And the goal of a wild firefighter 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.440 and or I guess probably more so a wild firefighter 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.359 is to remove one of those three components from the 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.919 scene and that will give them a better chance of 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.160 extinguishing the fire. Yeah, if you can bring the temperature down, 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.000 or starve the fire of oxygen something or get rid 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.520 of the fuel, right, yeah, all three those things have 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.000 to exist. And the reason why, like if you look 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:06.719 at wood as a fuel would as it pertains to fire, 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:11.920 is just a um solid store of hydrocarbons that are 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.400 released when the wood is heated to the flash point, 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.919 to the flash point. Um, and those hydrocarbons at the 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:21.240 flash point bind with oxygen in the air and it 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:25.279 can busts thanks to the spark, thanks to the heat. Yeah, 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.600 and the flash point. Everything has a flash point. Apparently 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.640 everything will burst into flames at some point, like a 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.400 fahrenhyp four one is supposed to be the flash point 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:35.880 of books. Yes, right, yes, which is very cool. Title 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:40.919 woods flash point is um five hundred and seventy seventy 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:45.440 two degrees fahrenheit three D if you're into celsius, if 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:49.320 you're that kind of thing, and uh, that's when would 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.839 will burst into flames. Yes. Um. I've got a couple 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.600 of just quick stats here about five million acres of 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.160 woodland burn every year in the United States, and I 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:01.039 got a different set. It was one point two million. 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:03.599 But then I looked I saw that that stato. Yeah, 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:07.039 I looked at the past decade five point nine million, 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.360 five point to nine point three nine point eight eight 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.600 point six eight four or seven three and seven. So 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.440 that's about five So I trust that one. And that 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:18.400 is dude. In two thousand nine, I'm sorry, let's go 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.520 to two thousand and six. There were ninety six thousand, 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:26.800 three five fires, wildfires in the US. It's a lot 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.640 of wildfires, isn't it crazy? And what's crazy is that 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:34.000 four fits of those are started by human activity. Yeah, 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.640 a little more than four fasts And that's nuts. Like, 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.640 I mean, there's a whole thing called lightning season, right 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.440 that when combined with this, um, this type of weather 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.440 called fire weather, which is very very dry, maybe drought 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.720 like conditions, um during warm summer months when it's very 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.960 hot out. Um. And all it takes is like apparently 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:58.440 like a train wheel causing a spark off of off 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:00.880 of the rail into some tinder and then bam, you've 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:07.280 got a wildfire. Um. But even all those uh don't 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:10.840 account for more than a fifth of wildfires. The rest 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.520 are like people throwing cigarettes out or looking for work 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.480 as firefighters, or not putting out their fire when they're camping. Yes, 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:19.720 that's a big one to UM. I have another couple 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:23.280 of stats from FEMA. There are total there are a 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:28.520 hundred and seventies six thousand intentionally set outdoor fires every 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.040 year in the United States. And a lot of those 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.440 I think, uh, they're prescribed burns. Right. No, no, no, 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:40.160 that that's like people. Yeah, but it's uh only you 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:41.560 know a certain amount of those are wild I think 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:46.760 sixty three are outdoor fires vegetation fires. So the others 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:52.400 are like trash fires, rubbish fires. Yeah, exactly, all of 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:58.280 them make smoky the bear weep. Yeah. True. So, um, 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:02.240 there's fire weather, there's lightning season. Four fifths the fires 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.760 are started by humans, more than four fifths, he said. 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:09.920 We know about the fire triangle, right, So once combustion 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:14.720 is started from whatever the sources, there's a lot of factors. 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:21.000 Oh no, not necessarily. There's three large factors that combine too. 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.480 I guess give us an idea of what's going to 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.360 happen with this forest fire right now? Are these are these? 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:31.200 Fuel characteristics are like how facet will spread? No, it's fuel, weather, 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.400 and topography. Those are the big three. And then each 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.440 of those kind of has a few subcategories. But the 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.800 but fuel, the amount of the type of fuel, the 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.319 the type of weather that that's going on, like is 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.400 it fire weather is it not? And then topography the 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:50.000 lay of the land like if it's a lake, that's 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.480 not good topography for a forest fire. And I'm going 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.000 to use forest fire and wildfire interchangeably. I didn't see 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:57.800 anything that said that they're not one and the same. 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.160 Well they are today at least forest fire just kind 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.160 of rolls off the tongue a little more for me. Yeah, 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.720 my thick tongue. Law said wildfire, And I keep saying 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.360 wildflower to Jerry? Is it wildflower or wide fire? What 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.080 wide fire gonna go? Forest fire? It could be a 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:19.880 wide fires. Uh so fuel Uh, you need a fuel 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:24.040 obviously to get the wildfire burning. In what they call 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.440 the they call it a fuel load is the amount 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:31.640 and it's a measured amount of fuel available per unit 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:35.360 area and it's usually tons per acre. So they there 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.800 they can actually they're good enough to guestimate that like 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.320 the biomass of like all this dry grass. Yeah, like 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:41.839 they know, like, man, this is gonna be a bad 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:43.720 one because we've got to you know, I don't have 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.559 any numbers, but whatever fuel load in this area of 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:50.280 the Colorado National Forest. And what's interesting is is, um 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.760 you would think that the fuel load, if you do 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.679 it in weight, because it's tons per acre, right, that 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.559 depending on the type of fuel, like if it's grass, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.000 if it's lighter, that it's going to burn more quickly 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.000 because it has less of water. Yeah, right, true, because 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:09.440 that's a characteristic of the type of fuel, is how 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:11.840 how much moisture it has in it. Yeah, And the 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:16.360 density like twigs obviously will burn faster for two reasons. 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.880 One it's because there's it's not as densely packed, because 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:22.719 which will give it more oxygen. Yeah, there's less surface area. Yeah. 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.600 And the second is it's smaller and it dries out 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:27.760 more quickly. Yeah, it's not like drying a tree or 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:29.280 a log. Just's got to take a long time to 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.000 dry out. Right. And then the same goes for density 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.320 with like say tots of pine straw. Right, if it's 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.719 very densely packed, Um, it's going to retain moisture in 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.040 the middle, which makes it harder to burn. Anytime you've 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.400 ever set pine straw on fire, you know, kid, it 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.560 smokes a lot if you'd throw a big mess on 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.480 your fire, right. But if it's kind of spread out, 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.160 it's uh, it drives more easily and it lets more 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.680 oxygen in between it, which is another need for fuel. Yeah. 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:59.560 And the small fuel material they call flashy fuels and 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.520 were like four fingered, right, and on a chemical level, 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:07.640 they it varies on how long it takes these things 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:09.560 to ignite as well, beyond the fact that it's just 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:13.040 like more dense or bigger or more spread out. Right, 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.160 Like when I go camping, I will dry out camp 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:19.880 firewood beside the fire, and you can hear it, says, 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.319 you can see it. You can see the moisture sizzling 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.800 from the log and then you just inch it closer 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.560 and it'll just boom flash point. That's how it happens. Yeah. 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:33.280 Oh another thing, josh, Um, As the fire pushes forward, 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:35.880 it's what it's gonna be doing. Because there's so much 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.680 heat associated with it and smoke, it's gonna dry out 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:42.920 the stuff, the fuel in front of it. So by 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.160 the time it gets there potentially, I mean, that's why 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.960 wildfire happens. By the time it gets there, it's already 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.240 dry and right for the picking, and it's just gonna 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.280 keep burning and keep burning. There's nothing to stop it. Basically, 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.719 that's right. It feeds itself. Um something else that feeds it. 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.079 So that was fuel, right. Yeah. The second category or 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.760 of factor that really determines how wildfire is going to 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:09.120 go is um weather big time. And you know when 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.480 you think of weather, you think, I will you know, rain, snow, 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:14.720 if it's raining, then of course the wildfire is gonna 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:16.880 go out. They point that out in here too, But yeah, 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:22.200 I thought, okay, I thought, um, Kevin went to great, Yeah, 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.920 he definitely he dotted his eye on that one. He did, 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.079 because yes, obviously, if it's pouring down rain, it's going 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.280 to keep everything moist or if it's been raining for 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:35.000 a while, humidity helps big time. But the aspect of weather, 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.880 um that probably has more of an effect than any 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:43.679 is wind at So you've got wind outside of the fire, 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:45.760 which is going to push it along, push it in 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.360 one direction or another. Well, it's very unpredictable. That's one 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.240 of the things the winds, especially the dry Santa Anas 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.640 in California. It's already hot and dry wind. So it 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.440 might as well be fuel, right, Well, I guess it's 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:00.160 sort of his fuel well traditionally, but it doesn't. It's 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.320 not necessarily fuel. But it brings more oxygen to the 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:07.079 fuel too, exactly right, Um, So it pushes fire along. 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:12.120 It's an oxygen delivery system. Wind is um and it doesn't. 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.120 There's a guy who's interviewed in this article. His names 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:18.760 Dr Terry Clark at the National Center for Atmospheric research 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:23.840 and he's created this model called coupled fire atmospheric dynamics. 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.640 Pretty cool, and basically what he's doing is figuring out 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:31.079 how fire interacts with the surrounding atmosphere and vice versa, 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:33.360 because apparently they feed off of each other. Yeah, fire 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:37.080 can create its own weather system and weather pattern. Yes, 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.160 you just seen it before. Like in a really hot fire, 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.760 these little tornadoes come up. It's a firewhirl, right, Um, 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:47.320 those can be enormous. It's basically like the heat from 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:52.319 the fire creates a vortex, and the vortex is customarily horizontal, 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.160 but if something gets under it, it can stand upright 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.360 and it becomes a fire tornado that can throw the 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.840 whole logs. I can throw a burning tree like a mile. 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.120 It's a it's a it's a monster, and it can 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.800 throw it a mile into where there previously was no fire. 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:12.840 And that's why fire forest fires are so hard to fight. 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:14.560 One reason why they are because all of a sudden, 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.000 you're fighting it on one front and you've seen them 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.680 to leap from the tree tops and all of a sudden, dude, 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.080 it's on this side of the mountain now, right. It's 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.040 scary stuff, and treetops specifically by the way, that's a 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.520 that's a type of fire onto itself. It's that's that's 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.560 a crown fire, is what it's called. That's right. Um, 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.720 there's a these uh fire whirls, right, the fire tornadoes 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:39.560 they don't necessarily have to follow that. That um, that 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.880 process of starting out horizontally and standing up and then 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:47.760 moving like a tornado. There's another thing called a hairpin fireworld. 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:51.320 Is this the forward burst? This is amazing. Basically it's 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:56.360 like the fire develops so much I guess heat, it's 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.760 vortexas do it's vortices do that. It shoots forward like 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:03.640 a lamethrower and apparently, uh, these things are they get 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:08.200 up to like sixty six ft wide, right yeah, Um, 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.120 they can shoot three hundred plus feet at a hundred 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.840 miles an hour. It just all of a sudden, like 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.040 the fire just shot a hundred feet forward at a 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:19.520 hundred miles an hour and then in an instant, all 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.960 of a sudden, year fire is going in a if 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.560 not a different direction and additional direction. Right Because tracking 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.040 these things, predicting these things, it's we've figured out or 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.880 Dr Terry Clark has figured out, um that it's not 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.480 just the atmospheric conditions. It's the fire creating its own stuff, 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:39.200 its own wind, and just moving from both of these 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:42.520 and they call that spotting. If if they if it 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:46.600 tosses embers to another spot, they call that spotting. And 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.120 if it if it starts a fire obviously right. Um. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.880 And then temperature also is another factor. If it's warm 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.960 out hot, um, you know, obviously that's an extra sixty 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.360 hundred degrees that the temper that the sun doesn't have 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.240 to heat something up to. Yeah you know, yeah, you never. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.600 That's why they burned mostly or most hot and wild 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:10.080 during the day during the afternoon. Um. California. Like, I 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.080 had to get used to camping in California because in Georgia, 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.720 George is like a rainforest man. It's like there's never 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.440 any fire threat. No. Plus it's so muggy. Yeah, it 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.880 is so muggy all the time. There's no way you 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:23.440 couldn't start a fire if you want to. You can't 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.280 even strike a match outside right now. But uh, well, 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.960 I'm just used to camping with a great, big, awesome 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.000 camp fire. But once I headed west into like Colorado 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.400 and New Mexico and California, they have you know, every 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:38.680 state park. In national park, you go to a national forest, 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:42.400 says have signs that say you know, fire risk UM high, 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.440 no fires at all, or you have to apply for 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:49.840 a fire permit with the the camp camp rangers, camp 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.240 rangers forest rangers, and uh, I had to get used 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.760 to either sneaking my fire, which is not right and 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.480 risking fine, or not having one at all, which why 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.320 don't you just go apply for a permit? Well, sometimes 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:04.960 it was the fire risk was so high you're not 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.720 supposed to have one at all, And I would still 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:09.680 have one. And I probably shouldn't be saying that, but 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:12.679 I'm super super careful. I didn't when I when I 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:14.840 was living in the van for a little while. UM, 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.639 I camped on the northern rim of the Grand Canyon 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.560 and I started a fire, but I don't I didn't 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:23.359 see any signs that said no fire or anything, but 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.639 I wasn't. I could have totally missed it. Probably no 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:27.520 one said anything, though. Yeah, and you know what, I 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:29.760 was completely irresponsible for doing that. Just let me go 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.080 on record and say that it was not the right 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.760 thing to do, even though I was super careful, because 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:38.119 accidents happened and I could have easily been that jerk 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.280 that like didn't see the ember get away that started 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.439 a forest fire. So I want to say, I mean, 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:44.960 if you spark from a train's wheel can start a 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.159 forest fire, then yes, very easily a fire that you 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:52.040 started start a forest fire. That was very good, Chuck, 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:53.440 way to see o A. Well, I didn't want to 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.119 sound like I was bragging about it, like, oh, I 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.280 was super careful. So it was cool. This it was 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.920 not cool. There's this guy on um, yeah, I think 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:01.960 take your break. Okay. Do you ever watch Malcolm in 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.639 the Middle, Oh yeah, Um, there was this one. There 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.879 was this one scene um where the mom was telling 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.639 the dad he was he was saying that she was 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.320 giving him grief about the stories that he was telling 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.359 his kids, and he's like, they're cautionary tales, and she 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.920 goes cautionary tales doing him with It was so cool. 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.159 I enjoyed that show for a long time. But like 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.199 all shows when it's about kids, when they got a 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.520 little too old that you know, all of a sudden, 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.760 his voice is down. Well, he he cashed out, like 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.639 right about that time, he was like I'm out. Malcolm 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.640 himself he was like, I've I've got fifteen Porsches and 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.040 I'm very happy. I'm done. Well, yeah he went onto 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:46.080 this big movie career. Yeah, that's very sorry. I Cranston 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.119 though he's un't seen Breaking Bad, but it's supposed to 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:53.240 be amazing, all right. The last thing, Josh is typography. 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.680 That's what we talked about. A steep slope, it's gonna 0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:00.720 spread faster, usually spreads uphill, even though leave it to 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:05.080 Australia to do something weird. Dr Terry Clark says he 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:08.280 has a case study in Australia where the fire actually 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:12.280 burned down a sloped mountain, which is pretty unusual. Yes, 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.000 normally it burns up for a couple of reasons. The 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:21.320 ambient wind um usually blows uphill. Um the steeper the 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:25.000 slope the better because the fire, the smoke, in the heat, 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:29.000 and the well for the fire. As concerned, it's like, 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.520 give me a steep mountain, because the fire would be 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.560 standing almost upright then and the smoke and the heat 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.919 coming off the fire is um really drying out the 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.480 fuel load ahead. So most of the time they burned 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:44.480 upward up the mountain, and then they reached the crest 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:47.240 and they're like, I should have thought this through because 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.280 now I have to go down and I can't, which 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:52.000 is good for fighting the fire, not good for the fire. 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:58.159 Um they can besides burning all the vegetation, which is 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.080 can be really bad, h uh. It can lead to 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:05.879 things like erosion and mud slides later on because you 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:07.760 mess with the with the ground like that and it's 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.080 not stable like it once was. Yeah, I mean, like 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:13.359 the one of the roles that roots a root system 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:15.880 plays is holding the ground in place. And if you've 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.439 burned the tree and the roots system out, it's just 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:22.800 soil and the nice heavy rain comes and and that 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:28.160 very thing happened josh in storm King Mountain near Glenwood Springs, Colorado. 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:32.359 Two thousand acre forest burned and the underbrush burned on 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.000 the steep slopes, and two months later they got a 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:38.320 lot of heavy rain and it literally poured tons of 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:42.040 mud and rock onto a stretch of Interstate seventy like 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:46.080 engulfing cars, sweeping them into the Colorado River, all because 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:48.640 of the fire months months ago. And we've seen one 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:53.040 slides before. Remember Guatemala. Yeah, remember, like down the mountain 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.000 there was still that path. You could see the where 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.960 the path standing on this village where they never unearthed 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:01.920 the people and it's like people's kids were running around. Yeah, 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.359 it was so sad. Where we were standing was like 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.679 six ft higher than it once was, right, yeah, right, 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.160 six at least I would say that's awful. So, Chuck, 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:12.840 if you want to put out a fire, well, first 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:14.639 of all, they're beneficial, though we should say that at 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:18.240 times burning the underbrush of a forest can prevent a 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:23.159 larger fire later on, so they do have like prescribed burns, 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.160 like you were talking about, Chuck, I inadvertently started a 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:30.119 book club by mentioning again recently, have you noticed a 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:31.960 lot of people have been writing and saying like, thanks man, 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:35.920 I'm starting Yeah, and they're like, what about Yes, it's 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.159 another book that's a fake book though, oh is it? 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:41.040 It's yeah, that's the one where the guys like the 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.160 Chinese made it to South America or Mexico. So there's 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:48.920 about it. And I pilloried the guy. Okay, yeah, it's 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:53.680 very he has very shaky, shaky evidence. That's fascinating stuff. 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.520 But well have we not podcasted on that. Let's do 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:00.280 it all right. I've read that today and I was like, 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.199 why haven't we done this yet? We can totally do it. 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:04.280 I think it took a little while for me for 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:06.359 the bitterness to like leave my mouth like after I 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:08.720 wrote that one, because the guy was getting tons of 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:11.520 pressed at the time. But anyway, anyway, anyone who's read 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:16.200 knows that North America it was basically a managed forest, 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:18.480 and one of the ways that it was managed prior 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:23.080 to Columbus was through prescribed burns. Like it there. It 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:27.040 is very beneficially. It burns away the underbrush so you 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:30.640 have less potential for accidental fires. Right, Remember we talked 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:34.080 about recessions are kind of like that um and the 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:37.639 it gets rid of disease, provides nutrients in the soil 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:43.280 um awesome show after you'd like, you know, hit the 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:47.040