1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: We've got to change the way we view our neighbors. 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: Instead of seeing them as people in need, we've got 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: to start seeing them as people with resources, people with talents, 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: people with abilities, and that no one is so poor 5 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: in our community. No one is so poor that they 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: have nothing to contribute. Everybody has something to contribute in 7 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: the community. 8 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 9 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 10 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach an inner 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: City Memphis. And that last part, well, it actually led 12 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 2: to an oscar for a film about one of my teams. 13 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 2: It's called Undefeated. Guys, I believe are choose. Problems are 14 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy 15 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: people in nice suits using big words that nobody ever 16 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 2: uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army 17 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: of normal folks. Y'all. That's us, just you and me deciding, Hey, 18 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 2: you know what, maybe I can help. That's what Bob Lupton, 19 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 2: the voice you just heard, has done. Bob and his 20 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 2: family moved into inner city Atlanta, where he learned the 21 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: hard lessons that most of his charitable work was toxic. 22 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 2: This led him to radically change how he showed up 23 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 2: and to write the best selling book, Toxic Charity that's 24 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 2: rocked the world of millions of Americans, and his story 25 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 2: is likely going to rock yours because I'm gonna tell 26 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 2: you something, a rocked bond. You'll hear this right after 27 00:01:51,640 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: these brief messages from our general sponsors. Well, everybody, today, 28 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: we have for you a very unorthodox episode for two reasons. 29 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 2: One my guest is not with me, and two Alex 30 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,839 Speaker 2: hasn't done his job. So here's how that works. As 31 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: you guys know, every episode, we interview a normal person, 32 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: the dude you're about to be introduced to that we're 33 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 2: featuring today. In doing interviews anymore, I think he's had 34 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 2: as full of interviews. But he's a great guy and 35 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: his story's phenomenal. Giving the number of interviews he's done 36 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: at his age, he's aren't that right, But Alex just 37 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 2: loves this guy's story and message so much that he's 38 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 2: felt really compelled to bring it to our audience, our army, 39 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 2: and he loves it so much that we're about to 40 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 2: feature one of his talks and we'll comment on it 41 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 2: to be candid. I know a little bit about the 42 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 2: guy's story, but I have no idea what's coming in 43 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 2: this speech that we're going to listen to together and 44 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 2: comment on. And the second part I said, Alex has 45 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: given me zero prep. I think he wants me to 46 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: hear this for the first time, as you're listening to 47 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: it first time, so we can kind of have this 48 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: revealed to us together. Here's a little bit about Bob 49 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: Lovedon before we get into his talk. Bob has invested 50 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: over forty years of his life in inner city Atlanta. 51 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: In response to a call that he first felt while 52 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 2: serving in Vietnam. He left a budding business career to 53 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 2: work with delinquent urban youth. Bob and his wife, Peggy, 54 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: and their two sons sold their suburban home and moved 55 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: into the inner city, where they have lived and served 56 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: as neighbors among those in need. You talk about a 57 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: guy that burned the boat. Their life's work has been 58 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: rebuilding of urban neighborhoods where families can flourish and children 59 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: can grow into healthy adults. Bob is a Christian community 60 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 2: developer and entrepreneur who brings together communities of resources with 61 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 2: communities of need. Focused Community Strategies is the name of 62 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 2: an organization I think he founded, and through FCS Focused 63 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: Community Strategies, he has developed two mixed income subdivisions, organized 64 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: a multi racial congregation, started a number of businesses, created 65 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: housing for hundreds of families, and initiated a wide range 66 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: of human services in this community. He's the author of 67 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: several books, including the Widely Read which I actually owned 68 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 2: the book and haven't read it. I've opened it twice, 69 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 2: but now I have to the title. The book is 70 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 2: Toxic Charity, How churches and charities hurt those they help 71 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: and how to reverse it. Weeks of just the title 72 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: weeks of Turkey Person, and I have no idea if 73 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: that's really what it's about, but I will tell you 74 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: a friend, after hearing the Turkey person a story, bought 75 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,799 Speaker 2: me this book, So it's got to be at least 76 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 2: interwoven the kind folks at Nyzorene Compassionate Ministries. They've been 77 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: really kind. They've allowed us to feature Bob's talk to 78 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 2: their group on our podcast, and as we listen to 79 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: it together, we'll comment as we go. So Alex roll tape. Hey, 80 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 2: I've always wanted to say that I feel like a corrector. 81 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: We go sounds goodbody. 82 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: During that ten year period we had start did a 83 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: number of programs that I felt very good about. We've 84 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: got use of an old Presbyterian church that had closed 85 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: down and I got permission to set up our office 86 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: there and invite the community in for programs and worship, 87 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: and so we did. It started a good number of 88 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: what I felt very good about programs for our neighbors. 89 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: The one that created the most excitement was what we 90 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: called our adopt a Family program that was at Christmas 91 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: time and we would give the names of kids that 92 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: were not going to get anything for Christmas to carrying 93 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: people from around the city who would go shopping, and 94 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: then on Christmas Eve they would bring those toys to 95 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: the homes of the kids, and it created a lot 96 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: of excitement, as you can imagine. But the first year 97 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: that we were living in the neighborhood as neighbors, that 98 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: was really the first time I had the opportunity to 99 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: be in the homes of the recipient families when the 100 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: gift bearing families arrived, and I saw something that I 101 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: had just never noticed before. The kids, of course, they 102 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: were all exciteds like Santa Claus is coming. The moms 103 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: were gracious, little reserved, perhaps perhaps a little embarrassed. But 104 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: if there was a dad in a household, he just disappeared. 105 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: He went out the back door and it dawned. I mean, 106 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: what was happening was that these parents were being exposed 107 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: for their inability to provide in front of their kids, 108 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,119 Speaker 1: and the moms would endure that indignity for the sake 109 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: of the kids. But it was just more than a 110 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: father's sense of pride could handle. It was as though 111 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: his impotence was being exposed in front of his wife 112 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: and kids in his own living room, killing them. I 113 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: never saw that before, and it made me wonder, are 114 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: the other programs that we are doing, the clothes closet, 115 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: the food pantry. It made me wonder, is this same 116 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: kind of indignity going on in the way we are 117 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: doing our charity. I was reading everything I could get 118 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: my hands on. In those days, there wasn't a lot 119 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: of literature. John Perkins hadn't written his book yet, and 120 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: I came across one author by the name of Jacques 121 00:08:54,679 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: l Lewell. He's a French philosopher, theologian, and and this 122 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: quote jumped off the page at me a little said, almsgiving, 123 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: that's the old word for charity. Almsgiving is Mammon's perversion 124 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: of giving. It affirms the superiority of the giver, It 125 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: finds the recipient and demands gratitude. It humiliates him and 126 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: reduces him to a lower state than he had before. 127 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: Can you see why that hit me right in heart? 128 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: That one why we were there to diminish anybody, certainly 129 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: not to humiliate anybody. We were there to affirm, to encourage. 130 00:09:54,960 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: And it sent me on a search through everything we 131 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: were doing. The clothes closet that was, that was an 132 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: easy one to start up. You know, we don't wear 133 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: out our clothes in this culture except the man. They 134 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: tend to a little bit. We gathered in clothes from 135 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: folks around the city and we had plenty of room 136 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: in that in the old Presbyterian church, and so we 137 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: invited the community in. We said, these are the free 138 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: gifts of God's people. They've been freely given. Help yourself, 139 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: And it was it was a beautiful spirit of sharing 140 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: until we actually opened the doors, and then folks came 141 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: charging in and grabbing up as many handfuls as clothes 142 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: as they could carry out, and then I'd find a 143 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: clothes scattered around outside, no place to try them on, 144 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: and realized, whoa this is? This is not good stewardship. 145 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: So we hastily drew up some rules and posted them. 146 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: Limit the number of garments per visit, limit the number 147 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: of visits per month. Well that was like saying, let 148 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 1: the games begin. Can we get some clothes for our 149 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: kids that are in school? Well that's reasonable. Can we 150 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: get some clothes for my sick uncle who can't get 151 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: in here today? You just know where this is going. 152 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: In no time, we were acting like temple police, guarding 153 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: the resources of the kingdom against the very folks we 154 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: were there to serve among. It turned into an adversarial 155 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: relationship almost overnight. Then why we were there. We were 156 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 1: there to share, to share our lives, to share our resources, 157 00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: to share our friends, not become the words against neighbors. 158 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: Greed wasn't what we intended at all. The food pantry 159 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: was that was a hard one to get to get equitable. 160 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: Somebody would donate a couple dozen canned hams, which is 161 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: a very desired commodity. Well, we got fifty people standing 162 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: in line. How do you allocate those equitably, and somebody 163 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: gets canned corn and somebody else gets pickled beats. Well, 164 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: like o'luell said, the system demands gratitude. You expect folk 165 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: to say thank you, but just underneath the surface, you 166 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: just didn't know what the feelings were. 167 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first, 168 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 2: please consider signing up to join the Army at Normalfolks 169 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: dot us. By signing up, you'll receive a weekly email 170 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 2: with updates about the Army and short episode summaries in 171 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 2: case you happen to miss an episode or you prefer 172 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: reading about our incredible guests. Please sign up. The more numbers, 173 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 2: the more impact. We'll be right back. You know, when 174 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 2: I'm listening to Bob one of my first I can't 175 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 2: help but go back to after Undefeated was released and 176 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 2: before the Academy Awards, after it did so well, to 177 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 2: the south By Southwest Festival. We got invited to a 178 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 2: bunch of film festivals Toronto, New York, all of them, 179 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 2: and we were at the New York City Film Festival. 180 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: And this is only forty five days before the before 181 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 2: the Oscars, and we were just now starting to get 182 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 2: some Oscar buzz. And the way these film showings work 183 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 2: is they show the film, the audience watches film, and 184 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 2: then afterwards, those involved in the film come up on 185 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 2: stage and they go through a thirty or forty five 186 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 2: minute Q and a, and film showed. I'd done a 187 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 2: few ways, you know, after south By Southwest, I'd done 188 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: a few so I kind of knew what to expect. 189 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 2: And the questions were typically, you know, are you still 190 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 2: in touch with the boys where they now? How did 191 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: the team do the following season? How did you do 192 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: the following season? You know, how did you feel when 193 00:14:55,160 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 2: Montreal got a scholarship? Same really kind of questions. This 194 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 2: time was different, though, when when we got up and 195 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 2: we sat in the chairs up on stage and the 196 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 2: lights went up and the questions came, a woman in 197 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 2: the back stood up and asked this question, Coach Bill, 198 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 2: how do you respond to those of us who watch 199 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 2: this film and think of it as nothing but yet 200 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 2: another paternalistic trope? Alex, I didn't even know what heard. 201 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 2: I didn't I'm the guy that wants to answer every 202 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: question and really have honest discourse with people about everything, 203 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 2: and I was so naive. I didn't even understand I'd 204 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: never heard the word paternalistic or paternalism in my life 205 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 2: at that point, and I Paul, and I fear that 206 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 2: the pause means I admit to the people in the 207 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: audience that I was afraid to answer the question. I 208 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: wasn't the case at all. I didn't even understand the question. 209 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: I didn't even know what the words were. And Dan, 210 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: one of the directors, looked at TJ, the other director, 211 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 2: who those two guys are from la and they certainly 212 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: knew what the question was. And TJ began to answer 213 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 2: on my behalf, and he said some really kind things 214 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 2: about me. And as I, as I listened to the answer, 215 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 2: I started to understand what paternalism was. And sitting here 216 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: listening to Bob reminds me of that so much to 217 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: this day, that so much of what we do we 218 00:16:54,960 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 2: have to be very careful not to come off paternalistically. 219 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 2: And I mean, people will take what you have when 220 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 2: they're starving or they have nothing, But are they truly 221 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 2: appreciative of what you're doing, and are you doing it 222 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 2: for the right reasons or are you actually subjecting them 223 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: to paternalism? Are you actually they're taking it because they 224 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: need it? But you're embarrassing them and the work that 225 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: you're doing by the way you're approaching them. And I 226 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: think it's a fair question. I mean, have you ever 227 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 2: considered that, Alex. 228 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 3: Oh, Yeah, you're going to love everything Bob's about to share. 229 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 3: We're about to get much deeper into it, and I 230 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 3: think all the listeners are and you are going to 231 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 3: be excited about the solutions that he propose us to us. 232 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 3: So there are better ways we can do these things. 233 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, the paternalistic things are real deal. I've sometimes argued 234 00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 2: that government programs many I'm not want to sweep a 235 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 2: too broader brush, but many government programs are the epitome 236 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 2: of paternalism in that. And I really do think most 237 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 2: government programs to help the needy had a wholesome, real intent, 238 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: and either as happens in bureaucracies, they've morphed into something 239 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: they weren't originally intended or they've outlived their usefulness. But 240 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 2: because so many people depend on them, it makes them 241 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: very hard to change. But when somebody, when a person 242 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 2: in our world has to have what the government's doling 243 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: out just to sustain the basics of life, but if 244 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: they achieve a little bit of a higher level, they 245 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 2: lose that sustenance from the government, but ultimately by making more, 246 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 2: they get less because they're not high enough over the 247 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 2: line of sustenance to actually make enough to make up 248 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 2: for what they would have gotten from the government. So 249 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 2: it's better to just sit below the line, so they 250 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 2: get the government stuff, which ultimately keeps them from ever 251 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 2: trying to achieve their way out of a hole. And 252 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 2: to me, that's a very definition of journalism, which is 253 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 2: you stay where you are and I'll give you enough 254 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 2: to keep you basically basically sustained, but don't you dare 255 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 2: try to lift yourself out of it, because if you do, 256 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 2: I'll pull that back. And I don't think at all 257 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 2: that that was the intent. I don't mean to say 258 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: that that was the intent of many of our government 259 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: program but effectively that's exactly all the work. 260 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: I think. 261 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 3: What's interesting is, you know, we'll get into more here 262 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 3: with Bob is it's easy to dismiss the government programs 263 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 3: that like. The harder reflection is so many of our 264 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 3: charitable programs that a lot of us are giving money 265 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 3: to or doing the exact same thing, and they're treating 266 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 3: people as problems to be managed and not actually empowering 267 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 3: them to escape poverty. 268 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 2: I'll love it, let's continue. 269 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: It led to disingenuous kind of relationships rather than deep 270 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: and genuine relationships, not at all what we had in mind. 271 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: We had in mind building community, building trust, bearing one 272 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: another's burdens. Service projects. That's one that if you're in 273 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: a community of need, you're a desired commodity, because everybody's 274 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: into service these days. Churches, serly, youth groups, schools, businesses, 275 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: everybody is into service. And of course in the community 276 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: of need, there's an endless array of things that need 277 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: to be done. And so I planned hundreds of those 278 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: weekend and sometimes longer involvements, volunteers coming in to do 279 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: to do really wonderful things that we needed. They patched 280 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: the roofs of home bound seniors, They built handicapped ramps, 281 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: neighborhood playgrounds, actually built some new homes like the Habitat model. 282 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: A lot of really good volunteer activity that I felt 283 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: very good about until one day we were I was 284 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: sitting on my front porch with my neighbor, Virgil across 285 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: the street. I forget what we were talking about. It 286 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: was a Saturday morning, and down the street in front 287 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: of in front of my house came a fourteen passenger 288 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: church van and they got in front of the house 289 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: and there were kids in there and they were they 290 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 1: were waving. They had obviously come to do a service 291 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: project in our community. And Virgil said something that that 292 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: really took me off guard. He said, you know, I 293 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: just hated when those volunteers come down here. I said, really, 294 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: He said, I I thought you liked volunteers. Volunteers built 295 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: your house. He said, oh yeah, he said they do good. 296 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: But he said they he said, they insult in They 297 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: don't even know they're insulting. He told me about one 298 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: woman that she was volunteer in the community. She came 299 00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: into his house. 300 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 4: And was just going on and on about how neat 301 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 4: and clean his house was. They said, I know she 302 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 4: didn't mean anything by it, but he says, I know 303 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 4: it's behind that that she was surprised that a black 304 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 4: family in the inner city wasn't living. 305 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: In a hubble. And another woman that was raving about 306 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: how smart and well behaved his children were. He said, 307 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: he said, I know she didn't mean harm, but he says, 308 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: I know it's behind it that she was surprised that 309 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: my kids were different from the image that she has 310 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 1: of inner city black kids, that they're ignorant and rowdy. 311 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: He said, they had just insult you and they don't 312 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: even know it. Well, I'm going to tell you it 313 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: was a series of experiences like this that rocked my world. 314 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: I was there to do good and in fact was 315 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 1: ending up doing harm. I was spreading a kind of 316 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: toxin among my neighbors that I just had no awareness of. 317 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 318 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: So it really started me down a road of introspection, saying, 319 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: I need to find a way to somehow detoxify what 320 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: we're doing. I thought we were helping. I need to 321 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: figure out how to stop hurting people and really helping. 322 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: And when I really looked at my own motivations, I 323 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: certainly did enjoy being in the position of the giver 324 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: that was I wouldn't want to change places. And so 325 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 1: I confirmed what o'lewell said, demand's gratitude. I started to 326 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: see a pattern that kept repeating itself over and over 327 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: again in the way we were doing our charity. If 328 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: I would give somebody something one time, it always elicited appreciation, surprise, delight, 329 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: oh Jay, thank you so much. If I gave somebody 330 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: something twice, I noticed that it started to create a 331 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: little anticipation. Oh, I wonder if this is something he does. 332 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: I wonder if this is some kind of a program 333 00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 1: that he's going to start. If I gave somebody something 334 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: three times, it created an expectation. I know he does this. 335 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: I need to position myself so I'm in line for 336 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 1: the next installment that's coming, because there is an expectation 337 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: that this is going to continue. By the fourth time, 338 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: it's become an entitlement you owe me. I would like 339 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: a ham this Thanksgiving rather than a turkey Thank you. 340 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: I have a voice in this. This is a right. 341 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: And by the fifth time, it's just pure dependency. Can't stop. 342 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: Now we're counting on this, We're depending on this. I 343 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: saw that pattern repeating itself over and over again in 344 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: the way we were doing our charity, and I realized 345 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: that most of our charity was toxic. As We've got 346 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: to stop. We've got to we've got to find a 347 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: better way of serving. So the first thing I said 348 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: was we're cutting it out. 349 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 2: Wow, when you first saw that or heard that, what 350 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 2: was your response. 351 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 3: I mean, I've never heard anyone formulate it that before 352 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 3: in terms of the you give once, you give twice, 353 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 3: and how the nature. I think he actually might even 354 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 3: have one more level after this I'm remembering, but it's 355 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 3: almost like you almost like hate the person on the 356 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 3: sixth level or anyways, Yeah. 357 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 2: It kind of rings of familiarity can breed contempts. 358 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 3: Contempt, So that's the word I was looking for. 359 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of rings of And honestly, again, I 360 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 2: know we're talking about charity, but if you'll think about 361 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 2: the work we've tried to do socially as a social 362 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 2: construct within our government and our country, it's exactly what 363 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 2: he says. You end up creating dependency. And when you 364 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 2: create dependency, you strip the ability of the individual to 365 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 2: raise themselves up. So ultimately, through trying to do something nice, 366 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 2: if you approach it wrong, you cripple the very person 367 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 2: you seek to help. 368 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, maybe I'm being a broken record here, 369 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 3: but I think like the harder thing to think about 370 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 3: is like I think I'll get a new more but 371 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 3: like souit cansons, food pantries, you know, some of the 372 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 3: homeless shelters, I mean the same exact dynamics can happen there. 373 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 3: We're serving the same people over and over and over 374 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 3: and over and over again. They're not Actually their lives 375 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 3: aren't getting better in any way. You've done it that 376 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 3: many times, you're breeding dependency and contempt. 377 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 2: And neither is your life getting better in any way. 378 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 2: You've just become You can end up not doing it 379 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 2: because you really want to help, but now because you 380 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 2: just feel obliged, and that's also unhealthy. It's interesting, Okay, more. 381 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I mean there's other point too, of I 382 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 3: wouldn't want to switch who I am in this relationship. 383 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 3: That's where I know my intentions and motives are messed up, 384 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 3: Like I don't want to be the recipient. I like 385 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 3: having the power of being the giver. And you know, 386 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 3: I think a lot of us, you know, frankly feel 387 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 3: that way if we're honest with ourselves. 388 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 2: It's interesting. 389 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: And I realized that most of our charity was toxic. 390 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: Is we've got to stop. We've got to we've got 391 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: to find a better way of serving. So the first 392 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: thing I said was we're cutting it out. We're just 393 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: going to stop all these programs. And the only way 394 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: that we're gonna get of things out is when there 395 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: is a genuine emergency, and that's somebody gets burnt out 396 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: of their house or a calamity. A crisis then will 397 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: give but otherwise it's it's only in a time of crisis. 398 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: As soon as that word got out, the incidence of 399 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: crises skyrocketed. Everybody had a crisis. I said, no, wait 400 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: a second, Wait a second. There's a difference between what 401 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: is a real crisis and what is a function of 402 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: chronic need. A crisis that's when a calamity befalls somebody. 403 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: Chronic poverty is a matter of a series of decisions 404 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: that have been made. There's a difference. A crisis demands 405 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: an emergency intervention, no question about it. That's like when 406 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: an earthquake hits Haiti. That is a crisis, and so 407 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: we get in there with life saving medical supplies and 408 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: food and clothing and shelter, do anything that it takes 409 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: to stop the bleeding. That's the same thing in the States, 410 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: if a hurricane blows through or tornado or somebody's house 411 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: burns down, you get in there with emergency assistance. But 412 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: as soon as the bleeding has stopped, as soon as 413 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: all the medical supplies in the food have been distributed. 414 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: Now it's time to help folks start rebuilding. Now it's 415 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: shifts into chronic need. Rebuild their lives, rebuild their jobs, 416 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: rebuild their homes. That's development work. When you address a 417 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: crisis with a crisis intervention, lives are saved. It's absolutely 418 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: the right thing to do. On the other hand, if 419 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: you address a chronic need with a crisis intervention. 420 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 2: People are harmed. 421 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: Let me give you an example of that. Do you 422 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: remember it's been ten years ago now when Katrina hit 423 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: New Orleans. Remember that sat on television every night, Folks 424 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: stranded on the top of buildings. That was a crisis. 425 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: And as a nation, we responded emergency assistance and it 426 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: did save lives. Indeed it did. It was not very 427 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: well organized, as I recall, but it was the right response. 428 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: I was in New Orleans last fall. You know what's 429 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: going on in New Orleans today, ten years later. There 430 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: are convoys of carrying people that drive into New Orleans 431 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: loaded down with emergency supplies to minister to the victims Oftrina. 432 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: Get the victims of Katrina. We've created a whole victim 433 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: class of people who are dependent for their livelihoods on 434 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: the ongoing outpouring of compassionate giving, and we've created a 435 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: community of dependency. An example of how people are harmed 436 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: when you continue to operate on a crisis intervention when 437 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: within six months after Katrina that should have shifted shifted 438 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: to development, helping folks rebuild their lives, certainly not become 439 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: dependent on charity. Why do we do it Well, it's easier. 440 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: Touches the heart. Makes us feel really good when we 441 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: are convinced that we're really helping folks in need. It's 442 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: just that our charity has gone largely unexamined, haven't looked 443 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: deeper than the surface. So we said, we've got to 444 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 1: We've got to change your model. We've got to change 445 00:34:51,960 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: the way we go about it. The for thing, we said, 446 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: we've got to narrow our focus. We can't serve the 447 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: poor on the whole South side of Atlanta, No way 448 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 1: you can have any kind of personal relationships or accountability 449 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: in that. So we're narrowing it down to our immediate neighborhood. 450 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: That way, we have the opportunity to build relationships with folks. 451 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,919 Speaker 1: We get to know them on a personal level. They're 452 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: not objects of our charity programs. They're neighbors with names 453 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: and issues in their lives, not only needs, but also abilities. 454 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: And then we've got to change the way we view 455 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 1: our neighbors. Instead of seeing them as people in need, 456 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,439 Speaker 1: we've got to start seeing them as people with resources, 457 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: people with talents, people with abilities. 458 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 2: And that concludes one of our feature on Bob Lupton, 459 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 2: and you don't want to miss part two. It's now 460 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:07,320 Speaker 2: available to listen to. Together, guys, we can change this country, 461 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 2: but it starts with you. I'll see you in part two.