WEBVTT - An Update on The McAfee Story 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.680 Hey guys, it's Jonathan. Before we get to today's episode, 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:05.920 some of you may have already guessed at this, or 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:08.920 you may follow Twitter or Facebook and have seen the 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:13.080 announcement we are going to scale back Tech Stuff to 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:16.480 once a week. We're just publishing once a week for 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.200 a few months at least. This is because we've got 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.239 a lot of stuff going on here at how Stuff works, 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:24.840 and honestly, in order for it to all the work, 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.800 we had to scale back in certain places. So we're 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:29.880 going to just do an episode a week. It will 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.839 still be every week. I'm still gonna be working on 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.360 this show. When the time has come to the point 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.000 where we're able to go back to two a week, 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:43.800 we will, So this is just temporary, nothing to panic about. 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:46.000 I still love the show, is still going to be 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:48.400 doing the show, but want you guys to be aware 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:50.839 of it. So if you are looking for new episodes 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.159 of Tech Stuff, they should be going up from this 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.680 point forward every Wednesday. So thank you guys so much 0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:04.040 for listening, and now on to today's episode, Get in 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:12.640 Tech Technology with Tech Stuff from Stuff Tacon. Hey there, everyone, 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:16.880 welcome to Tech Stuff. I am your host. Jonathan Strickland 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:19.080 is today, I've got a little listener mail that I 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:23.160 wanted to read. This listener mail goes Hey, Jonathan Kenny here, 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:27.720 longtime listener, first time emailer. First off, love the show 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:31.200 as a lifelong tech geek. I love hearing about cool tech, 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:35.360 historic hacks, interweb lore and all the topics you've covered, 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.880 both with Lauren and all your cool guest hosts. On 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.880 recent sign offs, you mentioned possible suggested suggested topics like 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.440 personalities in tech, and I remember how interesting your episode 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:50.080 with Chris was on John McAfee back in two thousand 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.920 and twelve. You've probably been following more recent events surrounding McAfee, 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:58.560 his controversial actions and his wacky sense of humor, and 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.120 I was wondering if an update to the original podcast 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.559 is on the cards. Anyways, keep up the good work, 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.880 you're interesting topics, and you are terrible pons, so bad 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:12.480 they're good. Greetings from Northern Ireland, Kenny, Kenny, thank you 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.720 so much. We are going to do an update on 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.680 Mr John McAfee now. In order to do this update, 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.880 I am going to play a part of the episode 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:26.280 that that Kenny was referring to with me and Chris Palette, 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:28.200 so that those who have not heard it, because it 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.639 goes all the way back to two thousand twelve, can 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:34.760 understand what we're talking about. Now. This is about twenty 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.280 minutes of an episode we did about McAfee and other 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:43.240 quote unquote eccentric personalities in technology. And after we listen 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.800 to that classic piece of tech stuff, I'll come back 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.080 and talk about some of the updates things that have 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:52.720 happened since we recorded that show. So enjoy this classic 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.040 piece of tech stuff lore about John McAfee, and I'll 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.520 be chatting with you again in just a few minutes. 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.160 You know, we've talked a lot about people who have 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.959 very strong personalities, people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:14.200 and um, you know, very very powerful personalities there. Uh. 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:16.640 They may be friendly, they may be you know, have 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:21.760 thorny anger management problems or whatever. But for the most part, 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.960 you know, you can see a pretty good picture of 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:28.680 the person involved. Um. And then there are other people 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:35.200 who you go, wait, what what Yeah, And we've had 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:36.960 a pretty big one of those towards the end of 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:42.560 there's a spectrum of of normal, right right, there's some 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.720 people who are further out on the edges of that spectrum. 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:47.960 I would say, people like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.000 are a little further out on that spectrum than others 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.200 because they are very they were both very driven. Of 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:57.120 course Steve Jobs unfortunately passed away, but both very driven 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:02.080 individuals who were passionate about their interests and UM, and 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:06.280 both reportedly had times when they were not the most 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.680 pleasant of people to be around. So so yeah, you've 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.120 got that whole spectrum thing. Well that we wanted to 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:14.720 talk today about some people who kind of fall outside 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.800 that spectrum to the point where you'd say, all right, 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:23.560 either this person has something seriously wrong going on with them, 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.400 or perhaps the things that are being reported about this 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:28.440 person are putting them in a really bad light. But 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.839 in any way, they are clearly they're they're in a 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.560 situation that is not normal, and they themselves may not 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:38.920 be what we would call normal. Um. And the first 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:40.280 one we wanted to talk about was the one who 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.240 was in the news recently is John McAfee. And McAfee 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.279 is a guy who's he's been known as being an 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:52.279 eccentric for uh for more than a decade UM. But 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.240 McAfee he was born in England and raised in Virginia. 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:59.000 He went to Roanoke College and got a degree in 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.919 mathematics from that college. UH he spent time as a 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.800 programmer for NASA's Institute for Space Studies. He worked for 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.440 a couple of big companies. He worked for UNIVAC, he 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:14.120 worked for Xerox, UH nine, joined the Computer Sciences Corporation, 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.800 and then he started working for Lockheed. And while he 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.400 was working for Lockheed, that's when he started to develop 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:26.599 the software that he has really become known for. In fact, 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:31.039 it shares his name, the McAfee anti virus software. While 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.440 at Lockheed, he was he became very interested in this 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:38.520 idea of detecting and removing computer viruses because they were 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:42.640 just really starting to blossom at that time. We're talking 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:48.039 about UM the late eighties, and you know, this is 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:52.800 before we really get into the eras of web. The 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.840 Web doesn't really exist yet, actually doesn't exist yet in 0:05:55.920 --> 0:06:00.880 the in the eighties UM and very few companies have 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:06.080 access to some of the other Internet functionalities like file 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.480 transfer protocols or email, although they do exist at this time. 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.560 But he was he could see that there was this 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:19.040 rise in computer viruses and that because computers followed directions, 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.720 there are ways of creating directions that make your computer 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.400 do things that you don't necessarily want it to do, 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:27.960 whether that's uh completely filling up a hard drive with 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:33.920 meaningless information and breaking it, or installing some sort of 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:40.080 of of uh trojan program that protects a nasty piece 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:45.120 of malware from being detected. He was very much dedicated 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.880 to creating software that would that would find that and 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:53.880 remove it. Now. UM, it's interesting to note a little 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:58.560 bit about his background and UM, I I read not 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:03.000 too long ago a piece from released by Wired called 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:08.839 John McAfee's Last Stand by Joshua Davis also have a 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.800 an e book available on Amazon that you can purchase. 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:13.360 I think it's ninety nine cents and I think it's 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:18.080 a I want to say it's thirteen chapter something like that. Yeah. Uh, 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.720 it's it's not a long long book, but it's it's 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.880 you know, more than an article. Because apparently this guy 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:29.679 from Wired was there for like six months yea. Um, 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.720 but yeah, he he had been um, you know, as 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.600 he was working for uh, you know, companies like omex 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.000 Um in the early nineteen eighties. I mean, he was 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:44.560 a pretty heavy drug user. Apparently I used cocaine, coeludes. Um, 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.200 you know, he he had been a pretty heavy drinker 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.640 before that, even in his college days. It looks like 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.880 um and apparently got to a point where he decided, 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:56.080 you know, that was it, he wasn't going to do 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.960 this anymore. And he really straightened up, um cleaned up. 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.320 And this was you know, this was before he really 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.880 got the idea to go in and do this himself, 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:07.360 to launch his own company, um so. And you know, 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:11.280 it's not that I necessarily want to smear mud on 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.040 John McAfee so much as I think it provides some 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.680 context for for the kinds of things that happened later 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.960 on in his life. Sure, and uh, he made some 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.120 interesting decisions with that software that he created. One of 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:28.440 those was that he decided upon the shareware distribution model, 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.000 which ended up being a very effective way for him 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.840 to get that software out there on the market. Um So. 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:40.040 In eighties seven he formed McAfee Associates, which was essentially 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:44.240 in charge of creating this MacAfee anti virus software. But 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.400 it wasn't that much longer. I mean, it was just 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.760 in ninety four when he resigned from the company, and 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:53.440 a couple of years later he sold his his stake 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:58.800 uh in the company entirely and just completely got away 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.560 from it. Um. At one point I hear that he 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:05.640 was valued at around a hundred million dollars. He himself 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:11.559 stated that due to the economic depression and downturn and 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.680 and all these other issues, that he was reduced too 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:19.080 closer to four million dollars uh after that was all over, 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:23.520 although more recently in two thousand twelve, he said that 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:27.679 that was probably not entirely accurate. He may he may 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.600 in fact have had a bit more than four million 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.400 dollars UM. And this is where we start getting into 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:38.760 some pretty strange stuff. Um. He one thing was that 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.880 he was really interested in this this concept of quorum sensing, 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:49.160 now uh quick. Quarum sensing, especially when it refers to bacteria, 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:54.320 is a way of that bacteria have of reacting in 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.560 a certain manner, and that manner is completely dependent upon 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.160 how much bacteria is present at at time. So in 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.560 other words, if you were to provide a stimulus to 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:07.840 these bacteria, they would provide a response that would be 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:13.880 based mostly upon how many other uh instances that bacteria 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:17.200 are present. So if there is X number or greater, 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:19.959 it will respond one way, But if it's fewer than 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:25.079 that it will respond a different way. And uh McAfee 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:26.640 said that he was doing this in order to try 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:32.440 and develop new anti biotics, antibacterial treatments, things that could 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:37.240 help humans, uh in a medicinal way. And he relocated 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:41.960 to two Belize, just in Central America, the only country 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.440 in Central America, by the way, for which English is 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.720 the official language, although from what I understand it is 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:51.680 not the most prevalent language spoken there. It is however, 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:56.120 the official one. Anyway, he moved to Belize, Um created 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:01.080 this lab in his home in a apparently a pretty 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:05.160 large compound there, but he has a lab at that compound. 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:09.800 That was from what he was saying, all about studying 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:14.680 this stuff to try and create better medicines, mostly medicines 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:16.199 that he was looking at. He was looking at a 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:23.040 lot of natural elements, things that were um found out 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.840 in rainforests, things like that as the key to these 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.440 sort of medicines. That's what he was claiming. Yeah, it 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:34.600 would seem that his his entrepreneurial spirit hasn't completely left 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.160 because he's he's done this. He's also even apparently tried 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:42.200 to come up with a a sport. Yes when he 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.480 was living out in the southwest. Now this is before 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:49.000 he moved to Belize. Um. Apparently, Um, I was listening 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:53.040 to a radio report from someone who had been uh 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.480 you know, who had met McAfee more than once, and 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:57.280 he said, yeah, I want you to come out here 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.120 and check out this new sport, apparently, narrow treking. You're 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.640 supposed to fly, I don't know, very very close to 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.080 the ground, um. Ideas, you fly very low to the 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:11.000 ground using some form of aircraft. It might even be 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.640 a hang glider with a motor attached to it. But 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.240 the idea is that you are flying close to the 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.600 ground so that you get that real sense of speed 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.840 and danger from being you know, just a very short 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:28.600 distance away from crashing to a potential terrible injury or death. 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.760 And in fact, McAfee was involved in a wrongful death 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:37.120 lawsuit that was the result of a person dying from 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:41.680 an arrow trekking accident. Um. So I mean this was 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.120 you know, he's known as a daredevil as well as 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.720 many other things, which will I guess we can kind 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.200 of segue into. Now this is gonna get really weird, folks, 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:52.319 because here here's the thing is that there are a 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.400 lot of different reports. There's what McAfee has said through 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.800 or we presume it's McAfee, through various blogs and Twitter 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.760 at count Twitter messages, things like that, there are things 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.160 that he has said, there are things that people who 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.679 know him have have said. There's things that journalists who 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:13.320 have investigated this have said, and honestly, we don't have 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.520 the whole story. But no matter who's telling the story, 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:22.000 it's weird. UM well known that the Belize police have 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.600 visited him on more than one occasion. Yes, they're their 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:31.520 gangs unit actually rated his house in April two thousand twelve, 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:36.040 the Gang Suppression Unit in Orange Walkdown, Belize. They rated 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:40.280 his home under suspicion that his laboratory was actually producing 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.200 crystal meth. That that was in fact what he was 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.720 interested in making and not UM medicine. And in fact 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.360 there are there are journalists, they're bloggers who have said that, 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:57.400 UM that that McAfee was very active in online discussion 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:01.760 forums that were dedicated to drug manufacturer like as an 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:06.520 illicit drugs or or recreational drugs UM. Although there is 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.800 a woman who um he talked into a job offer 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:14.240 to come down and work on UH medicinal drugs as well, 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:18.400 so that again, this is their conflicting report. So they 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.760 could be that these reports that he was the one 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.360 who was on these recreational drug sites, maybe that wasn't him, 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.840 you know, because they were using uh pseudonyms, I mean handles, 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:33.440 they weren't It wasn't just him there. But Gismoto published 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.640 a report that very much seemed to indicate that he 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.000 was one of the people on this recreational drug forum 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:44.440 talking about trying to perfect a typical kind of drug 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:50.600 that would, um well, supposed to enhance his his sexual 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:55.280 experiences as well as give a sense of euphoria and 0:14:55.400 --> 0:15:01.400 supposedly would create a very gradual and mel oh come 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:06.280 down afterward. So uh and and he the guy who 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.600 was posting under this name, posted a lot about this 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.280 particular kind of drug. Um Whether or not that was 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.720 John McAfee, however, is still a question. Now. One of 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:18.720 the things that people have said is that the drugs 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.760 that he was talking about often can create a sense 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:26.600 of paranoia in someone who's using those drugs. Now, again, 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:28.760 whether or not McFee was using those drugs is a 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.840 is a question that's left open. However, I think it's 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.360 safe to say that paranoia is something he has felt, 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:40.800 Yes he has. He has demonstrated, uh, paranoid tendencies. Now 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.160 again there's always that joke just because your paranoia doesn't 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.880 mean they're not out to get you. But we can't 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:48.760 really say that, but we can definitely say that he 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:52.480 has shown some some paranoid tendencies. One of those is 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.240 trying to evade the police. Now, as of the recording 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.640 of this podcast, which is at the end of November twelve, 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.640 he's still on the run from police and Belize. And 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:04.200 the reason why the police are interested in him is 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:09.720 that someone who lived near him, Gregory Vellant Fall, was 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:16.600 found shot dead a few several meters away from from 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:23.640 McAfee's property and um Fall and McAfee had a history 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:31.000 of some arguments, some some uh, some disagreements, one of 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:35.200 which was that Fall said that McAfee mcfee's dogs, but 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.480 I think McFee owned like eleven dogs, but that his 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:40.880 dogs were barking all the time and that was driving 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:44.120 Fall crazy. And uh. One of the other issues that 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.840 happened recently was that several of McAfee's dogs, I think 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:53.560 four of them died of poisoning. So the implication here 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:55.720 and again this is all unfolding, so we don't have 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.240 the full information, but the implication is that perhaps Fall 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.320 or someone that Fall knows, poisoned the dogs, and that 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.920 perhaps there was an act of retribution against Fall. So 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.600 when the news first broke, it sounded like McAfee was 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.840 not just a person of interest but a suspect. Since then, 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:15.400 the Belize police have said, no, he's not a suspect. 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.800 We just want to talk to him because we want 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:22.080 to find out who killed Fall. It's possible that perhaps 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:26.840 someone around McAfee killed Fall for McAfee, not necessarily on 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:31.320 McAfee's command, because, as it turns out, McAfee has seemingly 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.840 started to hang out with some pretty rough customers in Belize. Yep, 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:41.520 the photography that that accompanies the Wired book includes some 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:45.480 people with some very large guns. Yeah. The stories that 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.719 are essentially I'm sorry, I mean, there's a guns are 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.280 pretty heavily restricted in Belize too. So the story essentially 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:57.520 is that it sounds like McAfee has um formed relationships 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:02.440 with several of the drugs in Belize. Now, it may 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.399 be that he was doing this in an attempt to 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:10.840 get hold of materials for his legitimate medical you know, 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.879 research that could be the case, it would not be 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.840 necessarily the wisest move a person has ever made to 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.879 get involved with drug lords, but that's a possibility. Now 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:23.800 a lot of other people are saying, no, what's happening 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.239 is McAfee got involved with them so he could get 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.639 the ingredients he needed to make the recreational drugs that 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:35.240 he was interested in, which again we don't know, um so. Anyway, 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.280 it's possible that maybe one of these you know, gang 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.159 members that he hangs out with committed the murder and 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:43.840 it wasn't McAfee at all. So we don't know if 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:48.200 McAfee shot Fall, or if someone McAfee knows shot him, 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.920 or if it was just some random crime that seems 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:56.600 that seems the most unrealistic of the various possibilities, but 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.159 we don't know, um so. McAfee has been on the 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:04.280 run and has been posting, or at least there have 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.919 been blog post attributed to McAfee that have posted in 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.040 his absence that have made things sound even more strange, 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:16.719 for instance, that McAfee has been using elaborate disguises to 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.639 to hide in plain sight. Yes, he appeared as a 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:25.520 German um tourist basically using profanity and just shouting at 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:30.320 people randomly, or tried to uh disguise himself and hunch 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:32.159 over so that he didn't appear as tall as he 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:37.199 normally is, and uh spoken heavily accented English, trying to 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.880 sell trinkets to uh he said even or this person 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.639 said he even attempted to sell something to an Associated 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.879 Press reporter who didn't recognize him, a wooden dolphins. Yes, uh, 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.640 that the reporter suddenly had an urgent call to attend to. Yeah, 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.800 it's in the blog post McAfee assuming in his McAfee 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.199 claimed that he nearly sold one of these trinkets before 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:05.560 the p reporter was called away. Um. Now the police 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:07.560 police have been asking him to turn himself in so 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:09.960 that he can talk about whatever it is that happened 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.760 to fall, like who who could have possibly killed him, 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.800 and to clear his name. McAfee in turn, has said that, 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.080 or at least according to these reports and according to 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.800 people who know him who say they've talked to him, 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.119 says that he doesn't want to go into police custody 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.600 because he firmly believes that the police will kill him 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.360 once he's in their custody. Yeah, he um. He even 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.960 reacted to the that's the way he's on the run now. 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:36.640 Actually was because when the when the police showed up, 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:38.600 he thought they were coming to hassle him again. So 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:41.880 he here, that's what he says. Anyway, so he escaped 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:46.520 before they could catch him. Yeah, he um. So anyway, 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:48.639 he's saying that the police are definitely going to kill 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.560 him if they take him into custody. Uh. He's also 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:56.280 at one point apparently suggested that, uh that fall falls 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.280 death was really meant, was that there was a hit 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.120 gone wrong. It was meant to hit McAfee and instead 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.000 hit Fallum. That was one of the other possibilities I 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:09.120 heard a couple of weeks before we record this podcast. Um. 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:13.399 So it's these are these are definitely tendencies that we 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:18.200 would classify as paranoite. Um. And honestly, again we don't 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:21.280 know all the information. It maybe that perhaps McAfee is 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:26.000 a very eccentric but otherwise mostly innocent person. Now it's 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.960 true that his personal life also has some other complications. 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.440 Apparently he has several people living at that compound with him, 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:39.040 including several young women with whom he often has sexual relations, 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.800 and including one who is identified over and over as 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.840 a seventeen year old girlfriend. But then there are other women, uh, 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:51.199 and and at that compound as well, and so I 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:54.000 mean they're they're definitely. So it's kind of this weird, 0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:58.680 larger than life, odd David Lynch sort of story thing. 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:00.560 Like if if I saw the US in a film, 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:03.200 I would think the Coen Brothers made it. Yeah, it's 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:05.639 just it's just so weird when you think of somebody 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:11.040 who has gone down in history as coming up with 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:15.600 a very successful tech product. Um. You know, you you 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:17.600 don't typically think of that. You think of somebody like 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:22.240 Jobs or Gates or um, maybe Larry Ellison. Uh, you 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:24.520 know some some people who they've got lots of money, 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:29.200 they live a jet setter's lifestyle. Maybe maybe not um, 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:31.760 but you don't really typically think of you know, when 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:34.760 you hear something like, well, John McPhee is a person 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:42.040 of interest in this murder case, and really that's just strange. 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:51.080 All right, now you've heard the beginning of that story 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:55.080 and how crazy it God and believes. But now let's 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:57.919 talk about what's happened since we recorded that episode. We 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.560 recorded it back and I think November of two thousand 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:05.400 twelve and In fact, quite a lot happened after November 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:08.600 two thousand twelve, just to round out the year. So 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:12.119 we left off with McAfee on the run and in disguise, 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:15.840 occasionally updating his status through a blog. The Prime Minister 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:20.159 of Belize named Dean Barrow stated that McAfee was paranoid 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:25.000 and quote bonkers. In the quote, he said McAfee was 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:28.080 refusing to answer questions as a person of interest, and 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:32.080 said McAfee was unfairly portraying Belize as a corrupt nation. 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:34.840 So we have two very different stories going on here. 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:40.800 McAfee is claiming that the government of Belize is inherently 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:44.720 corrupt uh and that the police were not just out 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:48.680 to ask him a few questions, but we're possibly going 0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:52.280 to actually kill him. Meanwhile, you've got the Prime Minister 0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:56.080 of Belize saying this is not true. We're just investigating 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:59.960 the death of a person who was killed in beliefe 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:03.159 ease and all you want to do is ask some questions. 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:06.960 In fact, Dean Barrow said this is so high profile now, 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:13.359 it's so focused on in the media that it would 0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:18.160 be ridiculous for any harm to come to McAfee in Belize. 0:24:18.400 --> 0:24:22.919 Police custody. It would end up being proof that what 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:26.160 McAfee was saying was true, which doesn't make any sense 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:31.160 on the part of Belize. However, that being said, McAfee 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:32.720 was having none of it. He did not want to 0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:37.200 come back. On December five, two thousand and twelve, McAfee 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:41.159 was arrested by Guatemalan police, who tracked him to a 0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:45.679 posh Guatemala City neighborhood. They arrested him on the charge 0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:50.159 of entering Guatemala illegally. Now McAfee had sought asylum in 0:24:50.160 --> 0:24:54.320 Guatemala to avoid contact with the police force in Belize. 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:58.439 The police in Guatemala determined his location by a pretty 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:02.360 simple method. They looked the meta data on a photo 0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:06.200 uploaded to VICE. A group of VICE reporters were actually 0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:11.360 traveling with McAfee and documenting the whole experience, and they 0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:14.679 failed to strip the photo of metadata before they uploaded it, 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:19.240 so the photo actually included information on where the picture 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:21.320