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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe Eisenthal and I'm Tracy Hallaway. Tracy, we're finally

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Speaker 1: doing it. We're finally recording the episode. The episode. Uh well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's definitely what everyone is talking about, isn't it. It's

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Speaker 1: the only story in financial markets right now. We've got

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Speaker 1: a million requests to do it. We're talking about game

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Speaker 1: Stop obviously. Yeah, where to even begin describing this. There's

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Speaker 1: a subreddit called Wall Street Bets. Yeah, and a bunch

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Speaker 1: of people on the subreddit decided to trade game Stop. Um.

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Speaker 1: There are a bunch of different theories about why they

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Speaker 1: looked at that particular stock, but what's happened since then

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Speaker 1: is that they've basically forced it to go up by

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Speaker 1: an astronomical amount. We've seen people on the other side

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Speaker 1: of that trade, notably a hedge fund called Melvin Capital

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Speaker 1: that had a big short position has suffered massive losses

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Speaker 1: and basically had to be thrown a lifeline by some

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Speaker 1: other hedge funds. And meanwhile, we've seen this phenomenon of

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Speaker 1: I guess social media fueled UH specific stock targeted trading,

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Speaker 1: this retail trading on mass We've seen that extend to

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Speaker 1: a lot of other stocks in the market, amc American

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Speaker 1: Airlines and Okay, there there's a lot going on right now.

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Speaker 1: I don't even think I did it justice. Let's just

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Speaker 1: say it's the craziest week I've seen in markets in

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Speaker 1: my entire career. Yeah, I think that's right, is it?

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Speaker 1: You know, we've we've both seen crashes at times in

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Speaker 1: our career, but crashes are familiar things. We there's they're common,

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Speaker 1: they happen. We have never really seen anything like this,

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Speaker 1: the perfect storm that's come together with hedge funds, Shore

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Speaker 1: being a stock, social media driving it to the moon,

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Speaker 1: and then the trade itsself becoming a meme driving it

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Speaker 1: even higher, causing all kinds of lawses hedge funds not

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Speaker 1: just covering their shorts but liquidating their winners to maintain

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Speaker 1: within their volatility parameters. The story is everything, and now

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Speaker 1: we're going to dig into it. Okay, I'm excited. There

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Speaker 1: is There's one big question which I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people are focused on at the moment, and that's

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Speaker 1: whether or not game stop and what's happening in a

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Speaker 1: lot of other meme stocks at the moment, whether that's

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Speaker 1: due to a structural weakness that reditors have basically identified

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Speaker 1: and we've spoken about it on all thoughts before, or

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Speaker 1: whether it's something more I don't know how to describe it,

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Speaker 1: cultural or fundamental. Whether people actually believe that game Stop

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Speaker 1: should be a by and the shares should be going

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Speaker 1: up as much. Yeah, totally wild, all right. I am

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Speaker 1: very excited because we are going to be speaking with

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Speaker 1: a participant in the game Stop trade, the big Long,

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Speaker 1: someone who has been bullish on the company for a

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Speaker 1: while long, you know, while everyone else was saying the

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Speaker 1: company he was dead, while everyone was saying this was

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Speaker 1: gonna be the next blockbuster and go out out of business.

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Speaker 1: Our guest today has been a believer for a while.

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Speaker 1: So we are going to We'll just get right into it,

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Speaker 1: no more through clearing. We're going to be speaking with

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Speaker 1: Rob Alsman. He is a retail investor, but he is

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Speaker 1: part of the crew that put together the website. Gm

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Speaker 1: E d D dot com. D D stands for due

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Speaker 1: Diligence g m E is the game Stop ticker where

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Speaker 1: they collect the bull case four game Stop. He's been

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Speaker 1: long game Stop for several years. He's starting when the

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Speaker 1: stock was in the teens, he watched you go down

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Speaker 1: stuck with it, and now finally the big long is

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Speaker 1: paying off, paid off massively beyond anyone's expectations. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about the trade. So Rod, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. Joe, Tracy's pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 1: Love the podcast. It's kind of mind blowing that I'm

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Speaker 1: on it with you right now. Well, it is kind

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Speaker 1: of mind blowing for us to be talking with a

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Speaker 1: participant in the game Stop trade. So let's start at

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Speaker 1: the very beginning. Uh, you know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: have been following this for the last week. As I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: you've been following it for a few years, a long

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Speaker 1: time game Stop ball. What attracted what's your background? How

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Speaker 1: did you get into investing and market and how did

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Speaker 1: you zero in on game stop specifically as a potential

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Speaker 1: for a big payoff. Yeah, Joe, let me go rewind

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Speaker 1: way back. I'm thirty one years old, so I've lived

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Speaker 1: through an undergrad the financial crisis, but even before the

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Speaker 1: financial crisis, I've always personally had an interest in markets

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Speaker 1: and investing, kind of a nerd. I bought indirectly through

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Speaker 1: my father as a custodian game Stop stocking around two

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Speaker 1: thousand and three or so as my first ever investment

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Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, and at the time it

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Speaker 1: was purely a fun schinov. I'm a kid who goes

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Speaker 1: in the mall and I see all these people, and

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Speaker 1: I love video games, and I see how many other

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Speaker 1: people seem to love video games, and great. I told

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Speaker 1: him to buy it, and it paid off because they

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Speaker 1: had a merger with that an acquisition with Electronics boutique

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Speaker 1: in two thous five. The stock did pretty well up

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Speaker 1: through you know, the financial crisis peak UM needed the

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Speaker 1: money for college though, and liquidated before the crash thereafter.

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Speaker 1: But bringing it up to today, what brought me into

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Speaker 1: the story again in seventeen was pursuit of value. It

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Speaker 1: was pursuit of what I perceived to be a mispriced

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Speaker 1: opportunity in the market. That is, UM certainly born more

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Speaker 1: fruit than I ever would have imagined. So you took

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Speaker 1: a fundamentals viewpoint on the stock from the beginning. Take

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Speaker 1: us back to when this trade idea first surfaced on

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Speaker 1: Wall Street. Bets like, how are people talking about it?

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Speaker 1: And what was the bowl case that got the whole

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Speaker 1: trade started. So Tracy, I'll answer your question, but I

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Speaker 1: want to be very clear that this There have been

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Speaker 1: plenty of long investors, myself just one loud voice among

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Speaker 1: them for a long time going back at this point.

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Speaker 1: Year's plural, obviously seventeen. But but let's fast forward. I

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Speaker 1: think one of the first big tipping points to me

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Speaker 1: in terms of seeing people into the trade was around

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Speaker 1: August of nineteen. So if we look, if we were

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Speaker 1: to look at the chart, and you would see a

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Speaker 1: massive decline in price that finally reached a crescendo or

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Speaker 1: troughed down. I'm trying to look at the chart, and

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Speaker 1: it's absurd right now with the current price action that

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Speaker 1: even notice it. But the price got down to around

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Speaker 1: four dollars at that time, and just given the going

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Speaker 1: forward operations, given what we knew, we knew that the

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Speaker 1: at that point, I believe it was public knowledge that

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Speaker 1: the disk drives would be present on the next generation

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Speaker 1: video gaming consoles, and to me, that was a huge deal.

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Speaker 1: Michael Burry had an interview with you know, your your

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Speaker 1: associate on Bloomer Opinion Desk, kim at in Barns at

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Speaker 1: the time, and I read that in addition to other

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Speaker 1: research I've been conducting and that to me, it was ironic. Actually,

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Speaker 1: a couple of days prior to his letter and the

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Speaker 1: interview and all of that being published in August, I

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Speaker 1: was actually on vacation in Hawaii with my girlfriend or

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Speaker 1: with our family. We were we were in Hawaii, and

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Speaker 1: I was buying January one call options on game Stop

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Speaker 1: because I saw this was so fundamentally mispriced and I

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Speaker 1: saw a clear, a very clear catalyst coming in the

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Speaker 1: fall holiday of So I was not the only one

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Speaker 1: in hindsight I found this out. But but let me

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Speaker 1: be clear, the Reddit Wall Street Bets furvor that's come

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Speaker 1: about that was not the end all be all, you know.

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to highlight the what I believe to be

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Speaker 1: the key trigger with Wall Street Bets was. This is

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Speaker 1: what I think is really interesting about this to me,

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Speaker 1: and why one of the aspects about why I love

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Speaker 1: this story because we talk a lot about this sort

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Speaker 1: of maniacal or maybe weaponized call options buying that's associated

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Speaker 1: with the Wall Street Bets community, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: on robin Hood the effect that has on the stock,

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Speaker 1: and we could talk about that more too, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's a really important angle. We've talked about some

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Speaker 1: other episodes. People should go back and listen to our

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Speaker 1: Ben Eifford episodes about the options mechanics. But I love

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Speaker 1: that in an era in which so many people talk

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Speaker 1: about the death of the value trade or the death

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Speaker 1: of value stocks, that for people like you, the other

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Speaker 1: guy who's big on Wall Street, bets who's uh Wall Street,

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Speaker 1: who's red a handle, I can't really say because it's

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Speaker 1: not safe for work, the Worry Kitty because he's on

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Speaker 1: YouTube and twit. Yeah, his Wall Street was read at one.

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Speaker 1: We can't say for you and him, like when you

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Speaker 1: go back and look at it, it was a classic

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Speaker 1: disciplined value idea, the likes of which one would expect

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Speaker 1: to see like at the Sown conference, put together by

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Speaker 1: like an old school hedge fund manager. And and that's

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Speaker 1: why I want to really highlight that it was so

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Speaker 1: much more than what's come to be fervor and the energy,

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Speaker 1: which we we need to talk about. I think it

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Speaker 1: is an unprecedented thing, but but I think it does

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Speaker 1: a disservice to folks like me, my my my friend,

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Speaker 1: Roaring Kitty, others who did a lot of work over

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Speaker 1: the years. And you know what, we took our licks

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Speaker 1: for a long time, because this stock truly was shorted

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Speaker 1: into oblivion when we think about the durable short interest

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Speaker 1: at the level that it was at, I mean the

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Speaker 1: price got below the net cash on its books for

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Speaker 1: a while, like this company was trading as if management

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Speaker 1: was on a mission to destroy it, even after all

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Speaker 1: of these things happened along the way, such as a

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Speaker 1: strategic review that led to them divesting their technology brands

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Speaker 1: business heading into twenty nine, team, the appointment of a

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Speaker 1: new management team taking some really really important s gen

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Speaker 1: a reduction actions given the game Stop had become a

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Speaker 1: very bloated physical footprint. So I think it's really unfair

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Speaker 1: and it does a disservice to us. I've been talking

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Speaker 1: about game Stop on different platforms over the years. Stocked

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Speaker 1: wits I joined in eighteen and started talking about it there.

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Speaker 1: I started talking about it on Seeking Alpha in nineteen.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not the only one I know. There are

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Speaker 1: plenty of others, and I'm going to do them a

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Speaker 1: disservice not calling them all out by name. But it

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Speaker 1: was a a loose communal effort of a lot of

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Speaker 1: folks who felt like this was a contrarian play. This

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Speaker 1: was a misunderstood, misprice security. That simply people weren't getting it.

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Speaker 1: And look, we we benefited from things happening along the way,

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Speaker 1: such as COVID. In fact, you know, I think game Stoff,

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Speaker 1: you could make a very strong argument was a beneficiary

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Speaker 1: of COVID, and Ryan Cohen opting in August to file

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Speaker 1: a thirteen D saying he was not the largest shareholder

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Speaker 1: with a nine percent stake. And obviously we can talk

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Speaker 1: about what happened from then to now with Ryan, but

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Speaker 1: I think those things were not part of the original thesis.

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Speaker 1: And of course we all know thesis update you have

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Speaker 1: to stay present, and I don't think the shorts ever

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Speaker 1: updated their thesis. I think that's the big thing. When

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Speaker 1: August came along and you saw this, you saw game

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Speaker 1: Stop survived COVID, You saw and Cohen was clearly interested.

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Speaker 1: This is not a person if you do your research

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Speaker 1: on the man that does things on a whim. He

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Speaker 1: had had, he had publicly noted he only held Apple

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Speaker 1: and well well Spargo stock, and now he had a

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Speaker 1: Game Stop to the mix. So that should tell you something, right,

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Speaker 1: what was it about Game Stop that captured people's imagination?

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned it's a contrarian play. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: a huge short interest, so the professionals are betting against it.

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Speaker 1: But for some reason, there's this group of individual retail

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Speaker 1: investors that see value in it, and you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of deal with it differently to a lot of other companies,

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Speaker 1: UM that you might say are undervalued. What was special

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Speaker 1: about Game Stopper or what happened to UH to spark

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Speaker 1: that sort of UM community or movement. I think you

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Speaker 1: have to highlight COVID and I would. I definitely would

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Speaker 1: highlight Roaring Kitty as the host if I'm sure you all.

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Speaker 1: I know I've seen his videos cited in a few places.

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Speaker 1: But to know the full story, you need to appreciate

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Speaker 1: that this guy and I don't even know his real name. UM.

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Speaker 1: I have spoken with him via d M, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I know he's a private person and I'm not trying

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Speaker 1: to pry into his life, and I don't think he

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Speaker 1: wants to look at He's obviously benefited greatly from this

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Speaker 1: personally and for the sake of his family. I know

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Speaker 1: he's probably um elated, mixed with emotions just like me.

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Speaker 1: But but in August July, in the summer of you know,

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Speaker 1: I discovered his uh YouTube channel, and you know, YouTube

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Speaker 1: has a chat function. So whereas in the past I

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Speaker 1: had maybe been you know, saying what I thought on

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Speaker 1: a stock Twits platform and it's a you know, one

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Speaker 1: comment and then other people have to sub comment on it,

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Speaker 1: so to speak, it was very easy for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people to just talk about what's going on, what

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Speaker 1: are we seeing. As new information came into the mix,

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Speaker 1: as Ryan Cohen filed each incremental thirteen d d A,

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Speaker 1: as you know, new investors like Senvest added positions, as

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Speaker 1: information about their their online sales came into play, and

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Speaker 1: we were able to have just open There's nothing collusive

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Speaker 1: about what our conversations where we were simply talking about

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Speaker 1: what we were seeing, and you know, it was helping

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Speaker 1: us to feel the conviction that yeah, we were up big.

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Speaker 1: We you know, the price had appreciated already when we

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Speaker 1: think about from August into November, it had gotten up

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Speaker 1: five x. But we were all looking forward, we were

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Speaker 1: all seeing, you know what, there is a huge upside

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Speaker 1: opportunity by what I would deem to be two different

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Speaker 1: separate options that were embedded in the equity. You had

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Speaker 1: the Ryan Cohen option, which to me has now been realized. Um,

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Speaker 1: at least it was a big factor. The Ryan Cohen

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Speaker 1: option to me was a further acceleration of the company

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Speaker 1: into the e commerce digital first space, which is largely

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Speaker 1: in line with what Sherman, the curren CEO and management

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Speaker 1: team had been articulating. But you know, you had a

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Speaker 1: proven winner in e commerce who can go up against

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Speaker 1: the biggest, the big who can execute a customer fanatical

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Speaker 1: operation and win an e commerce So that was one thing.

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Speaker 1: If he were not in the mix, this would not

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Speaker 1: be where it is today. The second option is simply

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Speaker 1: the short interest I mean, no one, no one can

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Speaker 1: call a short squeeze. If you look at my Twitter.

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Speaker 1: I've been citing data around it about what is you know,

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Speaker 1: Finnries's short interests that they've put out, Um, you know

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Speaker 1: Bi Monthly what you know his evor at Street Partner

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Speaker 1: has been saying about it. He's put out some great research,

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Speaker 1: He's been all over it this week in the past.

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Speaker 1: But to me, it was an embedded option that maybe

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Speaker 1: this pays off, but what is the value of the

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Speaker 1: prospect of there being a fundamental disconnect in the market

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Speaker 1: where there is a squeeze action and I think those

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Speaker 1: two things made it easier for those of us who

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Speaker 1: saw the full big picture to have conviction to diamond

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Speaker 1: hand in the parlance of Wall Street bets, and and

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Speaker 1: to hold through it and not you know, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: took off chips and I made mistakes tactically along the way,

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Speaker 1: but I am, you know, very fortuitous, and many others

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Speaker 1: are too because they I think I saw things that

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Speaker 1: you couldn't see just looking at a spreadsheet. Can I

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Speaker 1: ask a really simple business model question? You know the reason?

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned that the Shorts never updated their thesis,

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Speaker 1: which I think is really interesting, But why isn't physical

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Speaker 1: retailing of video games inherently dead or going the way

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Speaker 1: of Blockbuster? Because I think that's still probably the missing thing.

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Speaker 1: It's like, why does this business exist? What is the

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Speaker 1: nature of it that people keep getting wrong about that? Joe,

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Speaker 1: that is a great question, and that is the question

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Speaker 1: that I think is fundamentally disagreed on by the Longs

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Speaker 1: and Shorts in the stock. But if you would ask

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Speaker 1: along like me, I would say, we've seen it with

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Speaker 1: electric vehicles. Right when adoption curves come into play, people

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Speaker 1: think that the next big thing in this case let's

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Speaker 1: relate evies to digital downloads of video games, maybe a

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Speaker 1: little simple adoption. Curves are not an overnight thing, right,

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Speaker 1: It's not a light switch. Um, certain products and services

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Speaker 1: are faster than others, of course, but I viewed it

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Speaker 1: as given the fundamental landscape we have, what are the

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Speaker 1: different demand drivers for a physical video game product. Well,

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Speaker 1: game Stop is I believe the most seasonal company in

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Speaker 1: the entire market, as it relates to percent of revenue

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Speaker 1: being derived from fourth quarter. Holiday gifting is a massive

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Speaker 1: driver of game Stops business. And it's not just the

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Speaker 1: physical video games that are or digital video game codes

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Speaker 1: that are sold, but all the related goods they're sold,

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Speaker 1: you know as gift, holiday gifting. So gifting collectibility, I

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Speaker 1: think it's a big piece of it. I don't I'm

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Speaker 1: a gamer personally, I have downloaded a couple of games.

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Speaker 1: I personally prefer to have the collection and be able

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Speaker 1: to see my collection. I think a lot of people

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Speaker 1: feel that way. If you look at video game streamers,

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Speaker 1: you'll see a lot of them proudly, you know, portray

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Speaker 1: their collection of games, and they're different paraphernalia. I think

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Speaker 1: culturally that collectibility is a piece of it, You've got

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Speaker 1: the physical the infrastructure piece of it. I mean, not

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Speaker 1: everyone has access to high speed internet. And while a

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Speaker 1: lot of games now are released with you know, a

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Speaker 1: day one patch that requires you know, however, many gigabytes

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Speaker 1: of a download. Um. I think that there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of interesting things going on with this current generation. For example,

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Speaker 1: backwards compatibility. You can play PlayStation four discs on your

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Speaker 1: PlayStation five discs. And when you think about the value

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Speaker 1: that a consumer, especially think lower middle income consumers who

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Speaker 1: you know they're not they don't have access to the

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Speaker 1: best data plan, they may not have the discretionary income

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Speaker 1: to pay sixty dollars for a brand new game, and

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Speaker 1: they can pay ten, twenty, whatever it might be, they're

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Speaker 1: gonna get dozens of hours of entertainment value. Commingle that

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Speaker 1: with COVID and I know I'm getting a little away

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Speaker 1: from the physical verse digital there, but it's a great

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Speaker 1: stay at home entertainment option. And I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people when they become gamers, they stay gamers for life.

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Speaker 1: So it's a growth industry macro coming pulling myself back

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Speaker 1: to the physical verse digital, I think there's collectibility, there

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Speaker 1: is that whole gifting piece, and there's purely the ownership piece,

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Speaker 1: like some people just like to physically own something in

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Speaker 1: their hand, and even though maybe they couldn't even access

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Speaker 1: the game if the server went down, So it's not

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Speaker 1: quite different from owning a digital copy of it. There's that,

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Speaker 1: and and then the resaleability, of course, which really dovetails

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Speaker 1: with game Stop, the fact that you have a residual

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Speaker 1: on this product you purchased, and you bought this new

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Speaker 1: video game Call of Duty for sixty bucks. You decided

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Speaker 1: I don't want to play Call of Duty anymore, and

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Speaker 1: I can go and eat. I can sell it on

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Speaker 1: an eBay, Marcari wherever, you know, give it to a friend,

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Speaker 1: let them borrow it, or I can turn around and

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Speaker 1: trade it in a game stop. And if I'm a

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Speaker 1: pro member, I'm going to get more credit for it.

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Speaker 1: And it is a compelling value, I think. So when

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Speaker 1: you started looking into this and you started developing your

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Speaker 1: long thesis, what was your actual price target on the stock,

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Speaker 1: Like how far did you think it could go? So, Tracy,

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Speaker 1: that's a great question. Look, there's a fundamental price target.

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Speaker 1: And then clearly where we are today, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: on a moon mission. It seems if if you believe

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Speaker 1: the Wall Street bet crowd, but fun ndamentally, you know

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Speaker 1: the research we put out a gm e DD dot com.

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Speaker 1: We we purposefully put that out because after the appointment

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Speaker 1: of Ryan to the board, we felt like there was

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Speaker 1: going to be an incremental pr campaign on behalf of

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Speaker 1: the short side, and and there was sitch r Own

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Speaker 1: research came out and I think we need to talk

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Speaker 1: about that, but let me not get there right now.

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Speaker 1: But we wanted to put out what we believed. Again,

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Speaker 1: this is I'm disclaiming any beneficial ownership. I have a

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Speaker 1: few hundred shares left at this point. I'm a small fry.

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Speaker 1: I'm a kid from Long Island who's gotten wound up

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Speaker 1: in some crazy story here that that's going to get

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Speaker 1: written about for years, it seems. But you've got a

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Speaker 1: fundamental price that Ryan Cohen, like I mentioned earlier, as

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Speaker 1: an upside option, we laid out a clear path to

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Speaker 1: one sixty nine is a bolcase price target. You know,

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Speaker 1: half in jest but half in look. We just wanted

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Speaker 1: to point out and this was when the price was

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Speaker 1: thirty dollars to share that Ryan brings to the table

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Speaker 1: a lot of opportunity. You know, there's a digital advertising

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Speaker 1: business that I have done so much research, and so

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Speaker 1: many other people have to, but I caught onto them

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Speaker 1: testing digital advertising and embedding ads through a third party

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Speaker 1: marketing platform on their web properties before anyone else. I

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Speaker 1: have been ingesting information that I realized that their online

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Speaker 1: ordering platform processes order numbers sequentially. So when I made

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Speaker 1: that realization purely as a function of me being a consumer,

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Speaker 1: me placing a handful of orders over the summer during

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Speaker 1: COVID for video game products, noting, Wow, these numbers look

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Speaker 1: like they're going up in you know, in sequence, and

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Speaker 1: I realized you can actually back into their e commerce

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Speaker 1: for their U S web property order flow with these

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Speaker 1: order numbers. I started crowdsourcing that stuff. And I built

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Speaker 1: a financial model purely backing out US e commerce based

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Speaker 1: on estimates for the size of international based on the

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Speaker 1: mix of e commerce to total sales, to to derive

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Speaker 1: what is actually going on. I'm doing the dirty work

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Speaker 1: that I don't think people like the you know shorts

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Speaker 1: were doing. And I had a conversation, you know, I

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Speaker 1: had a Hedge fund reach out to me to ask

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Speaker 1: me about what I was doing, and they were largely

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Speaker 1: in line, and it was like, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: a pat on the back, This is the affirmation that

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Speaker 1: what you're doing is right and you're seeing things people

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Speaker 1: aren't seeing. So all of those things plus just the

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Speaker 1: cost function. You know, I talked about the store foot

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Speaker 1: print earlier. They had over I think seven thousand stores.

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Speaker 1: At one point they're down to fifth five thousand or

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Speaker 1: so International included their thirty three domestically. You know, I

403
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Speaker 1: keep seeing people in mainstream media reporting that they are

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Speaker 1: a mall based retailer, and yet they are Strip mall domestically.

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Speaker 1: So you know, how much due diligence are people doing

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Speaker 1: If they're making these assertions purely based on what is

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Speaker 1: you know, common knowledge, they're not actually digging into it.

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Speaker 1: I will, you know, I eventually want to like get

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Speaker 1: over to some of the more current dynamics, the social media, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: But I'm actually just like incredibly fascinated by the whole

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Speaker 1: fundamental angle. But first for listeners whom may not know,

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Speaker 1: and I say listeners, but that includes myself. Can you

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about Ryan Cohen, his background

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Speaker 1: and why his entry into the arena was for so

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Speaker 1: many people such a game changer. Yeah, Joe, That's that's

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Speaker 1: a huge question that I don't see enough people asking,

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Speaker 1: so I want to give it a hopefully ah adequate answer.

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Speaker 1: You know, Ryan Cohen, for those who are listening to

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Speaker 1: the pod and don't know, he was one of the

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Speaker 1: co founders of chewy dot com. What is chewy dot com?

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Speaker 1: Hopefully you know folks are aware their pet supply services

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Speaker 1: product provider an e commerce native. They basically went into

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Speaker 1: a market that you know, Amazon, pet Co, pet Smart,

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Speaker 1: all the other big players are already present in, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you have to start up trying to enter

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Speaker 1: an existing market. What did they have? Um? Ryan, from

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Speaker 1: all the reading I've done, is a maniacally focused on

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Speaker 1: the customer experience. He's just completely obsessed with delivering for customers.

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Speaker 1: I think if that Jeff Bezos kind of mantra of

430
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 1: if you are obsessing about your customers and delivering compelling

431
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: value for your customers, then you know, look, Jeff was

432
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 1: selling books, Ryan was selling dog food. But you can

433
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: apply that to anything. And I think that we the

434
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: folks who were long Game Stop, saw Ryan enter Game

435
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 1: Stop and think, well, it doesn't matter that he was

436
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,400
Speaker 1: successful in growing Chewy from a startup to selling at

437
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 1: three point three billion. Now the company's worth I think

438
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: more than ten x that there's some personal back story

439
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: I've read about Ryan with regards to the passing of

440
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: his father, the timing related to his decisions to make

441
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: the sale of Chewy. Uh. My belief personally is that

442
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: he desires a return to leading, whether it's a legacy

443
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,959
Speaker 1: company or startup, And clearly he's chosen game Stop, one

444
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: would think. And he clearly has a plan for game Stop.

445
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: You know, he laid out a plan in his November letter.

446
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: But even before that November letter to the board, I

447
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: think you saw some smatterings of an activist campaign that

448
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: was put out in Bloomberg and that was put out

449
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: in on a CNBC right up by another UM shareholder

450
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: activism related players. So it seemed like, if you were

451
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: looking closely, you had a guy who had succeeded in

452
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: e commerce, the company was already trying to shift towards

453
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: e commerce, and it just seemed to me like and

454
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: to others that if you combine the two, there's a

455
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: lot of synergy there and the math can make a

456
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 1: lot more sense for game Stop going forward to be

457
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: you know, compelling value driver for consumers in a more

458
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: digital world, and it can make sense for investors too.

459
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: So I want to get back to the social media

460
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 1: question and how all this went down on Wall Street Bets.

461
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: And I I take the point about the business model,

462
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: but I kind of feel like you could. You know,

463
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 1: you can have contrarian bets on a bunch of things,

464
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: and people can make a very convincing case for a

465
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: lot of different companies, but it's it's rare that it

466
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: takes off in the way that it has for gamestock.

467
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 1: So I really I want to dig into what happened

468
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: on Wall Street Bets and how did this become such

469
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 1: a big thing. So there's if we are going to

470
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: highlight one point, and I think this is absolutely the

471
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: most important point, is what cit your own research did.

472
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: So first off, let me let me confess I have

473
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: gone on Wall Street Bets. I've perused the platform. I

474
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: find it amusing, informative, entertaining, all of the above. Um

475
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: a little bit I feel a little bit unclean when

476
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 1: I walk away, but I typically walk away laughing. You know. There,

477
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: I think is this feeling of us versus that boneness

478
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: on Wall Street bets that's really come to the surface. Now. Um,

479
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: you know, we are these small, uninformed something. Some of

480
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: the people on that platform are really smart. We've got doctors,

481
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: lawyers lurking on that platform. You know. I'm sure fund

482
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: managers are lurking on that platform too, but the common yeah,

483
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: super impressive. Let me say why I think SIT's on

484
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: so important because this whole spirst them nous um. Citron

485
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: came out and said we're going to publish a research

486
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: report about why games stuff should be going to twenty dollars.

487
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 1: And this was when it had surged up to about

488
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: forty or so. I think when people on Wall Street

489
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: that saw that happen, you know, even though the stock

490
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: had already made a very significant run, it just felt

491
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: like another one of those the big guy is trying

492
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: to screw me type moments, and you know, it sent

493
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: the price down temporarily. I tweeted about it, and I

494
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: called it a strategic blunder. If if I have no evidence,

495
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: but if we were to believe that some of the

496
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: big short hedge funds contacted Citron, which again speculating that

497
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: that was a strategic blunder on their part to to

498
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: put out a message from a party that is despised

499
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: on the Wall Street Bets platform and knowing the amount

500
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: of energy. You know, I had a New York Times

501
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: reporter reaching out to me and he had made the

502
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: claim and I haven't validated it that the volume on

503
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: Wall Street Bets went up like ten x after the

504
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: Citrone event so related to game stop. So I think

505
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: that that is clearly the salient moment where everyone kind

506
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: of said, you know, if it this is us first

507
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: them yolo, you know, Diamond hand this thing to the

508
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: moon type of a thing. And people were already saying that,

509
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: but that was the really salient moment. And Tracy to

510
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: your point about some of the really complex maybe options stuff. Look,

511
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: I don't I'm not a Gamma Squeeze UM ficionado. I

512
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: don't know anything about that in details, so I don't

513
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: feel so comfortable try and delve into the mechanics of

514
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: it personally. You guys can explain it to me or

515
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: to the audience, but uh, you know the fact now

516
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: this week that we're seeing UM options market makers refusing

517
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: to write new contracts. And I saw that Robin Hood,

518
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: who if I am correct, routes their order flow through

519
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: citadel who just be ail to outmail them. Capital on

520
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: Monday is no longer even allowing people to open long

521
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: stock positions and game stop only allowing clothes outs. You

522
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: know it sure seems collusive to me on the other

523
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,479
Speaker 1: side of the trade. What's going on, Tracy? Uh? You know,

524
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: why don't you give us our your thirty second description

525
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: of what just for listeners of what the gamma squeeze? Sure? Um, so,

526
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: I guess I should start out by saying that we

527
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: are going to try to record a new episode on

528
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: this topic with someone who's been on before. That's been

529
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: effort from QVR Advisors. He's going to walk us through

530
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: it again, but in a nutshell. Basically, when retail traders

531
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: trade options, there's a market maker who makes that trade

532
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: actually happen. But the market maker isn't trying to take

533
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: a position on the stock. They're not trying to bet

534
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: against it. They want to stay neutral. So what they

535
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: do in order to stay neutral is they typically end

536
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: up buying the underlying stock as the price rises. So

537
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: the idea here is that if the price rises and

538
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: they might get closer to having to pay out on

539
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: the options contract, well they can sell the stock and

540
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: they can make up the difference that way. So what

541
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: tends to happen is as we've seen more retail investors

542
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: get into stock options courtesy of these no commission platforms

543
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: like robin Hood, we've seen this dynamic, it's called a

544
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: Gama squeeze happen a lot more where a lot of

545
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: retail options activity is forcing the share price of the

546
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: underlying stock to actually go up, and that kind of

547
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: leads to a self reinforcing cycle where the share price

548
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: can just go up and up and up and up

549
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: and it. You know, if you have a Gama squeeze

550
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: going alongside a short squeeze at the same time, well

551
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: you really can get to the moon. I guess yeah.

552
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: That was great. This is why I like being your

553
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: co host, Tracy, because we needed that. Rod rod Um,

554
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: I know you're like sitting aside the options mechanics, which

555
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: Tracy I've been explained very well there. What's your view

556
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: of that dimension of investing because okay, we talked about

557
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: the Wall Street beds angle, but the the use of

558
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: these new free tools, the ability for people to trade

559
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: on margin, to trade leverage, to buy options on their phone,

560
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: to sign up an account, in five minutes. What's your

561
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: sense of how important that dynamic is to this particular

562
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: trade in this particular Yeah, this particular mission to the moon. Yeah.

563
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: I had a friend yesterday telling me that his um,

564
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: his girlfriend, had never traded a security before until game stopped.

565
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: She had put twenty five dollars in and it turned

566
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: into a thousand. So I think there's a great example

567
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: right there. You know, I've seen I've had dozens of

568
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: people reach out to me personally and and most of

569
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: whom are small players, but you know, thanking me and

570
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: others for the work we've done over the years. And

571
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: it's it's been incredible. I mean, it's it's been an

572
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: emotional roller coaster, financial road coaster, but but it's truly democratized, Joe,

573
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: to your point, the ability for players to participate in something.

574
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: And look, it is a speculative position right now, it

575
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: is people buying it right now are not buying it

576
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: because the discounted future cash flows are gonna be commensurate

577
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: with a thirty forty whatever billion market cap are currently

578
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: at today, you know, given all known information. But but

579
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: that said, people know that there is a massive short position. Still,

580
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: I think the s three update was much lower than

581
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: it was yesterday, but there's still a massive short position.

582
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: So I think you could argue these people are purely

583
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: irrational and they're gambling, and yes, there are aspects of that,

584
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: and I would say COVID exacerbated because people have a

585
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: lot of discretionary income, some people, you know, we talked

586
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: about the k shape recovery. You guys have covered at length,

587
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: and the beneficiary is having all this excess discretionary incomes

588
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: who have may been able to tap into the financial

589
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: markets in a way that they weren't able to do previously.

590
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: They have some extra time if maybe they're working from home, whatever.

591
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: And look, yes it's risky because a lot of people are,

592
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: like you said, there's margin, there's over leveraging themselves. Well,

593
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: you know the big hedge funds over leveraging themselves, but

594
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: let me stick with the small guys for now. The

595
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: fact that these people are buying long calls and they're

596
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: zero days to expery like last Friday was mind blowing.

597
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: I I had written some sixty calls, so I law

598
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: eight hundred of my shares last Friday. But you know what,

599
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: I wasn't that mad about it because I knew that,

600
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: you know, some read it or along the way probably

601
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: just made life changing amount of money. But it is

602
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily, because look,

603
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,959
Speaker 1: if all market participants are aware of all the market mechanics,

604
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: then people presumably should be able to hedge appropriately. People

605
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: should be able to make strategic bets and or tactical

606
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: bets to to move appropriately big, big and small players.

607
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: But but yeah, there's the definitely the casino effect that

608
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: COVID has exacerbated, and that this democratization of you know,

609
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: zero commission options trading um has foster. Yeah, there's a

610
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: dormant at a hotel in New York that I'm friendly with,

611
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: and he DM me this week asking what options are

612
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: and should he be trading them? What'd you say? Yeah,

613
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: I don't want to get into it too much, I said.

614
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: I think I said, if you don't know what they are,

615
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: it's probably not a good idea to start trading them,

616
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: especially this week. But it's sort of your classic shoeshine

617
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: boy example, isn't it. It's weird that people are talking

618
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: about options so much. People are googling terms like short

619
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: squeeze and even Gama squeezed so much that you can

620
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: actually see the pickup on Google trends. What do you

621
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: think the company should do? In theory, it could do

622
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: something with this money, but I guess it's hands are

623
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: also maybe a little tied because of all the craziness

624
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: that led to it getting that money or the share

625
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: price going up so much. Yeah, Tracy, you're right, they

626
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: doing nothing to me is not an option. And I

627
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: do think there's a little bit of a feeling as

628
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: an investor of a sleep at the wheel, And that's

629
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: just my perception. I haven't had a conversation with investor

630
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: relations in the last couple of weeks. I did reach

631
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: out to them after the cod announcement and ask Eric

632
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: Sarney at Game Stuff, I are, hey, are we gonna

633
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: expect to hear from you guys before fourth quarter earnings?

634
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: And you know that it was you know, one of

635
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: those well for now, that's when you can expect to

636
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: hear most type responses. But you're right, it's the stocks

637
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: that they have a hundred million dollar at the money

638
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: shelf currently that they had um brought out in the

639
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: third quarter earnings release. Losing track of time in my mind,

640
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: but a month or so back, and I'm you know,

641
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: Jim Kramer, I think it was last weekend when the

642
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: price was in like the thirties, was pounding the desk

643
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: saying that that he called up management and was telling

644
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: them they need to issue stock. Well, it's up ten

645
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: x from there, so clearly they they must know something

646
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: or or maybe they're you know, maybe they're better traders

647
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: than you. I don't know, man, but I do think

648
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: it is an opportunity to recapitalize. And you know, as

649
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: an investor, no one likes dilution. But look at what

650
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: Tesla has done over the years. I think that if

651
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: you lay out a path forward, if you lay a

652
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: credible plan to deploy that capital in a productive way

653
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: for shareholders, you know, look, could have become some sort

654
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: of self reinforcing cycle that the price keeps going up.

655
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, Well, do they need cash? I've seen

656
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: I've seen because I've seen this discussion on Twitter about

657
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 1: the idea of raising more than I've seen other people

658
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: say No, they're like they're on track to be cash

659
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: flow positive, etcetera. Like what is the business right now

660
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: in terms of its sustainability stock aside? Yeah, look, they're

661
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 1: going to degenerate cash this quarter. They have a bond

662
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: maturing that they prepaid of sixty odd percent of that

663
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: matures in March, so they have another bond and then

664
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: a lot of people look at their balance sheet and

665
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: see these least obligations, which will those go away if

666
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: if they close the store. So there's a lot of

667
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,959
Speaker 1: misinformation or lack of understanding around what is truly debt

668
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: versus you know, what's a liability from just an accounting perspective.

669
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: So they don't really have a ton of long term

670
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 1: debt on their books, and they're in a position to

671
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: even take this crazy price action aside. They were in

672
00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: a position to um pay down the March bond with

673
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: you know, no need to tap capital markets. So you

674
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: could argue, look at the interest rates they were paying

675
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: on the debt, they're still junk rated. So is there

676
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: an opportunity for them to improve their credit worthiness by

677
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: raising some capital. You know, that's beyond my personal domain

678
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: of expertise, but I think it is an opportunity to

679
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: better position themselves. And you know, look, if they're trying

680
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: to shift to e commerce, they're gonna need to make

681
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: some investments. I have to think and whether it's the

682
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: digital channel, um, the web properties, whether they want to

683
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: make some incremental fulfillment investments. I don't know what the

684
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: right answer is off the top of my head, but

685
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: I have to imagine that there is opportunity for them

686
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: to invest in that this is a way for them

687
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: to tap a market in a in a much cheaper

688
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 1: way than what have been a few months ago from

689
00:36:45,400 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: a delution perspective. So obviously, okay, we get this idea.

690
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: There's the stock itself has become a meme. Everyone's into it.

691
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: Talk to us about the role that the Roaring Kitty

692
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: had in this, and you know, his video is like

693
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 1: he's very funny. It's also, like you, very smart and

694
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 1: very like understanding of the fundamental business. And so again

695
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: people might be put off by like or find his

696
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: name funny on Wall Street bets or the videos of

697
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: him dipping chicken tenders, but he's really knows his stuff.

698
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: And so talk to us about like the sort of

699
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: the new the new style guru who like really gets

700
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 1: the market but also knows how to connect with people,

701
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: and the importance of him specifically in your view of

702
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: catalyzing this action. It's it's difficult to say, but but

703
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: what you you said, Joe, I think has a lot

704
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: of legs to it. This idea that you can be smart,

705
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: you can be knowledgeable, you can to be relatable, you

706
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: can be a goofball, you can have a good time

707
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: and be a nice human being. And I would highlight

708
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: that about the guy. He's a decent human being. He's

709
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 1: a really nice person. If you ever watch his videos.

710
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 1: I've spent god knows how many hours over the summer

711
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 1: just being in there listening to the guy go off

712
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: for hours, and it's truly a community type feel for

713
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: those of us. It was a couple of dozen of

714
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: us at first. You know, the thing is unwieldy at

715
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: this point, there's there were thousands of people on his

716
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: last stream. But he revealed at Christmas that he was

717
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: the df V. He was the same person. No one

718
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: knew who df V was until his Christmas reveals, So

719
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: none of us realized when we were talking to Rar

720
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: and Kitty that he was the same person. So so

721
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: I think that's really important to highlight. It's not like

722
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: we knew realized guy. Yeah, that Joe, that's huge. None

723
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: of us and I've asked everyone, right, and you would think,

724
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: of all the players, I'd probably be the one that

725
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: no no, I had no clue and it was just

726
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: such an overwhelming thing. So just just to clear, there

727
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: is uh, there's this guy Roaring Kitty on Twitter and

728
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 1: YouTube makes the videos. There's also this account DFV stands

729
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: for deep Value. We can't say that the you know,

730
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 1: the middle one, but anyone knows what it is. People

731
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: did not realize that the guy on Wall Street Bets

732
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: with the profane name was also the guy on YouTube

733
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: doing the fun video. Correct, got it? Okay, keep going, Sorry,

734
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: I just wanted to that's I didn't realize that. Yeah,

735
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: I know a big part of the story, I think. Um,

736
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,439
Speaker 1: so you know, going back to like how impactful was he?

737
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: You know, we need to understanding that little nugget right there.

738
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: Think about what was it that you know, gave anybody

739
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: reason to follow him. You know, the guy made this

740
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 1: big trade in like I alluded to earlier twenty nineteen August,

741
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: completely independent of me. I never knew him until this

742
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: past summer. But like Dr Burry, we saw what we

743
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: believed to be a very mispriced security and we thought

744
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: that the timing made sense in terms of the catalysts

745
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: that we would see along the way. Like I said earlier,

746
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: no way to know what would happen with COVID and

747
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: Ryan Cohen. But he made a very highly convicted, highly

748
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: you could call it speculative, but it was reasoned bet

749
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: on a lot of out of the money call options.

750
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: He accumulated several thousand January one, it was like seven, ten, twelve, fifteen,

751
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: maybe seventeen and twenty dollar strikes, so he had put

752
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: I believe a hundred odd thousand dollars of you know,

753
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: he he noted um in his coming out video that

754
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: his family, you know that they rent at their house.

755
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,439
Speaker 1: They don't come from wealth. You know, he his wife's daughter.

756
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: They are not financially well to do so. Truly, it

757
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: was the embodiment of a Wall Street Petiolo play for him,

758
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: and he's been public about that now that he's kind

759
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: of come out on it, and I think people that

760
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 1: gives people something to coalesce around the guys for months,

761
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: for years, posted and on Reddit as df V, he

762
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: would purely post a screenshot of his position, and like me,

763
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: he was down huge at certain points. Stock got down

764
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: to two p seven intra day it closed at two eighty,

765
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: and it didn't cause us to be rattled in our

766
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: thesis necessarily. I mean, sure it hurt looking at our

767
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: positions in the valuation, but it's kind of like this

768
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: guy has the you know, the balls to see a

769
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: trade through, to have conviction, and I think that won

770
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: him a lot of admirers. And that's why I believe

771
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: a lot of the redditors are are so enamored with him,

772
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: and he's kind of like a deity to some of them.

773
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: But but they don't many of them don't understand the

774
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: full story. And I think that it's important to realize

775
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: this was a guy who came in. He made a

776
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: yolo type play in terms of the percent of his

777
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: portfolio who allocated. Personally. For me, it was similar. It

778
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: was a majority of my portfolio. Not something I recommend

779
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: anyone ever do, but I was that convicted in the

780
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: play that I did similar to him, UM haven't had

781
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: the same outsize games because my options were not so

782
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: deep out of the money, but it was reasoned. It

783
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: was conviction, just like the shorts conviction. They were fully

784
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 1: convicted in bankruptcy. They clearly had to believe that the

785
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: outcome was bank receiving the stock traded below three or

786
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: four dollars. When it traded below net cash, it didn't

787
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: strike me that the risk reward made sense to be

788
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: short at that point. But you know, who knows who

789
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: was driving on that side. Um. But for Roaring Kitty,

790
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: you know, just his consistency of delivering his position updates

791
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:23,959
Speaker 1: on Reddit, his alter ego roaring Kitty, excuse me on YouTube,

792
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: being just He'll greet everybody who enters the chat, asked

793
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: how they're doing, genuinely engaging conversation, just a nice human being,

794
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: and I think everyone that authenticity truly, you know, spoke

795
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: to everybody who was involved, and that's why you know

796
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: people are rooting for the guy. You've done a lot

797
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,720
Speaker 1: of analysis on the fundamental business model of game Stop.

798
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: We're talking a lot about all this market craziness, but

799
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: ultimately game stop share price is up. Um. I'm looking

800
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: at it right now. It was recently halted, but I

801
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: think we were over four hundred dollars per share, so

802
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: an astronomical jump. I mean, there's been three halts. I've

803
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: been trying to follow it a little bit while we've

804
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: been discussing this morning. You know, we started around nine thirty,

805
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: and they're at least three halts from what I've seen,

806
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: I see the highs at four eight three? Can it

807
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: go much higher? Could have double? Could have triple? It could?

808
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I just sold four shares at

809
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: fit full disclosure. Um, I've I've memified myself for all

810
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: of eternity, and I'm happy to be recorded saying as such,

811
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: because look, it's fun. That's the thing I think people

812
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: are missing. It is speculative. People are gambling right now.

813
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: If you're buying Game Stop at this price point, you

814
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: are buying because you believe it will keep going up,

815
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: just like you would assume any investor in any security

816
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: is doing. Um, there's different theses underpinning their reasons for

817
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: thinking the price will go up, But for now, they

818
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: may have a belief that there will continue to be

819
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 1: for some time more buyers than sellers, and as these

820
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: you know, major headge funds continue to liquidate, that there

821
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,240
Speaker 1: may be more forced buying. I don't know what everyone's

822
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: personal strategy is. I don't know how high it could

823
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: possibly go. It you know, hearing about these halts and

824
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: all these kind of shady things where you have the

825
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: brokerage is not even allowing people to enter alongsides of

826
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: the trade. I mean, I I think it's unleashing a

827
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: fervor uh child. I really put it well on CNBC.

828
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: It really feels like, you know, if the retail if

829
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: the small guy or girl gets screwed over or loses out,

830
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: you know, their s O L. But if the big

831
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: fund makes a mistake and doesn't manage their risk management

832
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: prudently and now they get trapped on the wrong side

833
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 1: of a trade, somehow they have the levels of power

834
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: that they can escape. And I think people are are

835
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: trading emotionally, and I can appreciate that. Last night when

836
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 1: I saw Wall Street bets go private and I saw

837
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: people discussing it, I saw I thinks in Thomas Paine

838
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: on a Fox Business a recording of The Gentleman, you know,

839
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 1: kind of pounding the table saying, you know, buy gamest

840
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: of like people aren't doing a discounted cash flow analysis

841
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: to buy games up at these levels and no one

842
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: is going to claim otherwise. But just like with Tesla,

843
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: I think that there's that piece of you know, investors,

844
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: if they just want to see the company succeed, what

845
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: how do you value that in your equation, GameStop is

846
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 1: a venerable brand. This is something I think people miss um.

847
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: I saw some market research a few months back. One

848
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 1: of my consorts in our group is a marketing UH

849
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: leader and you know, like many, he's opted to remain anonymous,

850
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: but he had shared some researchers showed game Stop was

851
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: behind Walmart, Amazon Dollar Stores and it was either fourth

852
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: or fifth on the list of holiday gifting destinations. And

853
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: this was across a broad sway that the population. This

854
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: was young folks all the way up to you know,

855
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: boomer plus. And if people have that brand presence, that

856
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: brand awareness, twenty plus million active Power Rewards members in

857
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: the last year, you have a brand that exists. You have, yes,

858
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: a legacy physical video gaming product that is in a

859
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: long term decline, but that many would argue is not

860
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 1: going away um even within the end of the decade.

861
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: In my opinion personally, that can pivot into the other

862
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: areas of a nearly two hundred billion dollar video gaming

863
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 1: tam Are there adjacencies beyond video gaming that they could

864
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: spread into. I don't know, so I haven't heard anything

865
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: from Ryan since he was added to the board. We

866
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: tried to lay out at bowl case in our g

867
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: M E. D D kind of incorporating what we've seen

868
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: from existing management and from Ryan, and I think that

869
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: there is an argument that Ryan could push the price

870
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: beyond where it is today, but there's not enough known

871
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: information to to you know, make an investment based solely

872
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: on that. So right now, yes, Tracy, it's absolutely speculative.

873
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,760
Speaker 1: I don't think it's unreasonable to think game Stop could

874
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: see prices like four hundred dollars in the future if

875
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,240
Speaker 1: Ryan is given you know, full rain, I would stand

876
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: by that comment. But again, I am not encouraging anyone

877
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: to you know, invest for long term value at fifty cents.

878
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: Let me you know, I actually wanted to get into this.

879
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: You mentioned the brand. You also mentioned that you're um

880
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: a gamer personally, and you know my understanding and totally

881
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, is that the gamer community

882
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: has long held a sort of love hate relationship with

883
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: the games With games up, could you a sort of

884
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: describe that relationship, but also be I imagine there's a

885
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: massive overlap between the redditors, Wall Street betters and gamers,

886
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: So how does that fit into the excitement for the

887
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 1: trade that whether it's love or hate. There's probably an

888
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: intimate familiarity with this company for many of the people

889
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 1: trading the stock. Yeah, Jo, that's a good point. I

890
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 1: mean I think I said love hate as you were

891
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: saying it's sorry. But I feel the same way, and

892
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: I think a lot of folks. Look, video gaming is

893
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: not um I mean, obviously it's growing like crazy, and

894
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: a lot of people, if you're younger, especially, we talked

895
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: about the democratic democratization of kind of investment with these

896
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: lack of commissions, ease of accessing options, trading and you know,

897
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 1: not encouraging trading derivative securities you don't fully understand. But

898
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: I think that that is a good point that a

899
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: lot of us grew up with game Stop, a lot

900
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: of us grew up with video games. We saw this company.

901
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: Maybe we're looking now back in hindsight and saying, yeah,

902
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 1: it was at four bucks, now it's at four but

903
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: like feeling like GameStop had, you know, the man's boot

904
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: on its neck, and this company was trying to be

905
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: dragged down by these big money to parties and interests.

906
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: So you've kind of got that contrarian like rage against

907
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: the machine type feel where people were like, you know,

908
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: it's screw it. I like this company too. Maybe I'll

909
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: have been always happy with how much they wanted to

910
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: give me for my old mad and trade in. But

911
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: I see that they're making progress. I like the things

912
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: that I'm hearing about this new guy being involved. Look,

913
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: they launched a new web app or io iOS and

914
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: android app at the end of September. They've upgraded the

915
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: web property, so I assume there are many new customers, right.

916
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: I said that twenty million active power Up members, and

917
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: last year in the K it was fifteen and change.

918
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: So clearly they've added a lot of new customers or

919
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: new old customers within the last year, especially in mid COVID. Again,

920
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: no one could have planned for that, but I think

921
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: people remember the brand. People have different emotional connections. Video

922
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: gaming is kind of Look, some people have these games

923
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 1: that they play for years. I got an Xbox Series

924
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: X and I've been playing Skyrim, which is a game

925
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: from like epic game from Bethesda, who Microsoft bought um

926
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: a couple of months back. But if people have a

927
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: very emotional connection with video games, I think they have

928
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: the social connection with video games, where whether it's over

929
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 1: the Xbox platform or PlayStation. You know, I know Game

930
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: Stop is trying to make themselves the social and cultural

931
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: hub of video gaming. That's part of their reboot strategy.

932
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: So you have all of these, uh you know, aspects

933
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: of it that that make it more than just a

934
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,399
Speaker 1: me sitting at home in isolation playing a video game.

935
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 1: I think that that cultural, that social piece is part

936
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: of that story that you're talking about with the love

937
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: hate you talking about how old Skyroom is. Um, that's

938
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: made me feel very very old all of a sudden. Um.

939
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: But I wanted to talk about this nostalgia element in

940
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: Game Stop because some of the other meme stocks that

941
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 1: we've seen go up recently. You know, we have a

942
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:22,359
Speaker 1: m C which operates movie theaters. We have Tutsie, Role, BlackBerry,

943
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 1: and a few others, and I think a lot of

944
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 1: people might associate that with, you know, growing up. Are

945
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: things that have happened in their past. I guess what's

946
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 1: your advice for seeking the next meme stock that goes up?

947
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: Is it to find something that a lot of people

948
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: identify with where there might be hidden value? Is it too?

949
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 1: I know you said you weren't big on the gamma

950
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: squeeze theory or dynamics, But is it to identify structural

951
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: weaknesses in the stock, like the amount of short interests

952
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: that's out there. What are you going to be looking for?

953
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 1: Assuming that you know, maybe you do this again. Let

954
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: me say one thing. I'll never again have a position

955
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: to constitute the majority of my personal portfolio. And I

956
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: hope other people consider more prudent portfolio management than i.

957
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 1: Um I've been a beneficiary of it in this case.

958
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm I'm contrarian by nature. I bought

959
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,240
Speaker 1: Game Stop in two seventeen as a deep value play,

960
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: so I'm not going to be chasing the next hot

961
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: big thing personally, And I don't begrudge anyone who follows

962
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: different online message boards or Twitter personalities and decides that

963
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: that's the way that they are going to play the game.

964
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: They're going to see what some big name has to

965
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: say that this is the stock they should buy and

966
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 1: and follow the crowd. And I'm not a crowd chaser,

967
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 1: but there's something to be said if the crowd is

968
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: big enough that that crowd can overwhelm even the largest

969
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: of hedge funds. So to identify the next opportunity, you know,

970
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: I'm I think I've made the point I'm looking at

971
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: the financials. I'm trying to look forward. I'm not gonna

972
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: worry about like you know, the game stops. Income statement

973
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: was trash for the last a couple of years, given

974
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: um acid impairments and goodwill write downs. So you need

975
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: to dig into things and understand what's truly happening. Appreciate

976
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: changes at the board end management level, because those are

977
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: you know. Look for my day job, I do corporate strategy.

978
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,800
Speaker 1: I get to interact with c suite and and you

979
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 1: kind of work on board decks and presentations, and you know,

980
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: if if you have the right people in place all

981
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: across the company, I think amazing things canna happen. So

982
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: it's not a simple answer, but you need to dig

983
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: in and understand what's going on. And until you do. Personally,

984
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: I don't feel comfortable investing unless I really understand what's

985
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: going on. Maybe that's why I'm so heavily in cash

986
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: now that I've sold out of game stuff. Just haven't

987
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: had time to dig into other things. But I think

988
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: that's that's my message is is you've got to do

989
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: the due diligence. You've got to do the work. You

990
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: can't you can I guess follow a Gama squeeze into

991
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: into the moon. But um, I don't think that that's

992
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 1: a long term successful strategy. How many hedge funds have

993
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: reached out to about joining them? Joining yeah, or having

994
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: you be a trainer portfolio man? I have, you know

995
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 1: one of the members of our little groups. So I

996
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: don't know, Joe, if you saw it, Tracy, I had

997
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: written Ryan. Um, I wrote to his lawyer, worked with

998
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: a shareholder activism lawyer, and and you know, I penned

999
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 1: the letter and he cleaned it up a little bit

1000
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 1: on behalf of four percent of shares outstanding. Again, I

1001
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 1: don't I'm not the beneficial owner of that. I don't

1002
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: have any control over what they do. I'm sure many

1003
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 1: of them have sold on this wild run. But after

1004
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,760
Speaker 1: he put the letter out to the board in November,

1005
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: we had this belief that Ryan offers absolutely the most

1006
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: upside value for game Stop, and we wanted Ryan to

1007
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: be more involved. And Ryan had made it clear I

1008
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 1: think from his third filings that he wanted to be

1009
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: more involved. So we we wrote him, you know, a

1010
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: love letter. We said, we love what you you said

1011
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: in in your letter to the board, we agree, we've

1012
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,240
Speaker 1: seen what's happened over the years, you know, with the

1013
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: strategic review and the refreshing of the board and with COVID,

1014
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 1: we agree that another strategic review makes sense given how

1015
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: fundamentally the business has changed over so we lent our support.

1016
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: We noted if there is a proxy event, you know,

1017
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: he'd have our our our swords, so to speak. And

1018
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: obviously they reached the settlement. So I have no idea

1019
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: if if what we advised him had any part in

1020
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: the negotiation, and I'd like to think it had a

1021
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 1: small part to play, but that is I think the

1022
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: best that are a small retail investor could ever do

1023
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,760
Speaker 1: is to say to you know, the other, the largest

1024
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 1: individual investor, you know, look we we see what you're

1025
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 1: doing and saying we agree with what you're doing and

1026
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 1: saying and you know, if there is a fight, look,

1027
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:43,240
Speaker 1: there was a there was a proxy fight last spring,

1028
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of us who have been

1029
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: in it for a long time, we're able to take

1030
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: our learnings and our experience being involved with the Hasta

1031
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: permit proxy fight in Spring to know how to position

1032
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: ourselves and perspectively profit off of another upcoming proxy so

1033
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 1: it's not like we, uh, we're just mad men following

1034
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: this guy into battle. We we we did our research.

1035
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: We wrote him, we said, you know, we're interested in

1036
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: the direction you're taking the company. And that's why when

1037
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: he joined the board with Alan A. Fall and Jim

1038
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 1: Group from Chewy and we put out this research saying

1039
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: why we saw a bowl case that would be you know,

1040
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 1: far higher than what the price was at the time.

1041
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:21,879
Speaker 1: If you're not getting offers from hedge funds, you can

1042
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: you can join our spack the odd thoughts back. We're

1043
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 1: gonna buy call options on Meme stocks with big shorts

1044
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:34,959
Speaker 1: on them, big short interest. That's our plan road any

1045
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: last quick thoughts things that we missed, don't you want

1046
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: to get across? Yeah, I would just say for me personally,

1047
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: and I think I speak for many of the folks

1048
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: who have been on this crazy ride, and it's been

1049
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: a it's an emotional roller coaster. It's been a life

1050
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: changing experience. Um, it's been really you know, power focus

1051
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: hearing how many people's lives have been changed for the better.

1052
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 1: So I'm just very thankful Rod. That was so great.

1053
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: We're so so happy that you came on. I love

1054
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 1: this story. I think it's when people listen to it,

1055
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 1: they'll realize it's much more interesting than they probably realized.

1056
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: Very cool. Thank you so much for coming out on

1057
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: odd lot. Thanks Rod, Thank you so much, Joe and Tracey.

1058
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 1: It really appreciate did it. Tracy? That is just that

1059
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: was the best story. You know, you said, this is

1060
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,399
Speaker 1: one of the um this might be the craziest week

1061
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: you've ever seen a market. That is hands down one

1062
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: of the best market stories ever period. There's a lot

1063
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: going on, that's for sure. I mean, I think Rod

1064
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 1: like laid out a very interesting story about how he

1065
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: first got involved in the stock I thought this idea

1066
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,359
Speaker 1: that you know, he had been to lots of walls

1067
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: when he was growing up and was a gamer and

1068
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 1: probably had good memories of Game Stop, or at least

1069
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: prominent memories of Game Stop. That's very interesting to me.

1070
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: I do think. I do think there's gonna be and

1071
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 1: clearly it worked out for him, right, Like I know,

1072
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: he didn't say exactly how much money he made, but

1073
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 1: he is very happy, obviously very emotional towards the end.

1074
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: There is this element of the democratization of finance. However,

1075
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: I do think we should talk more about the sheer

1076
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: sort of gamma short squeeze dynamics. I think we should

1077
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: talk maybe to someone who got in the stock just

1078
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 1: based on pure flows and just to jump on the bandwagon.

1079
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: We should definitely delve more into what exactly the endgame

1080
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: is here, because there might be some people who don't

1081
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 1: have as great an outcome. So I'm happy for Rod,

1082
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: I'm still slightly worried about some people who are in

1083
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: the trade and you know, if they get caught offside.

1084
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: Totally and completely agree on all that, I don't even

1085
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 1: have anything to add. I just really love it. It's

1086
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: a great story, and no, I do you know, I

1087
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,479
Speaker 1: do think the one thing is is like I love

1088
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: that this story actually really did originate with a value

1089
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: trade because there's so much talk the death of value,

1090
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 1: the death of value, and this is like it's sort

1091
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: of like maybe become the iconic trade of this bull market,

1092
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 1: and it's just such an old school like value thing.

1093
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 1: It's like the I said, you know, you read Roger Report.

1094
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,919
Speaker 1: People should go to gim E d D dot com

1095
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 1: to look at the original research. You watch the Roaring

1096
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: Kiddies videos and so on. It is like, you know,

1097
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: like a like an old Bill Ackman breakup value case

1098
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 1: where it's like really understanding the business, the likes of

1099
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: which does not fit the popular narrative of everything just

1100
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: being about like sort of growth and you know what's hip.

1101
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 1: It was like they understood the business, they made a

1102
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 1: call on it. They they had a view that the

1103
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: underlying business was worth more than the stock and they

1104
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: were got. And I'm going to debate you on this

1105
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 1: because I know Rod and Roaring Kitty did have a

1106
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: value thesis on this, but like, to me, this is

1107
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: a value play or some people had a value play

1108
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 1: and then it turned into something else. I think even

1109
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 1: the goals like can't argue that this level was justified

1110
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: and we'll talk more, yes, but I like that it

1111
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: started with that. Yeah, But you know what's interesting real

1112
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: quickly on that point, it's not like you know, you

1113
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 1: think of a lot of like value trades is like, oh,

1114
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: I see twenty five percent upside from here if you

1115
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 1: break it up. They did see the huge multiple in crystal.

1116
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: It wasn't just like you know, they did see that

1117
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: this good thing could rock it. It was not like

1118
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: this will be a marginal winner there beat that was

1119
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: going back watched the Rowing Kitty's video from August that

1120
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: it would go to the moon, and so like that's true.

1121
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: They kind of called it anyway. No, I I agree, Um,

1122
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: and it was great having Rot on the show to

1123
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: kind of remind everyone of the origins of game Stock.

1124
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,919
Speaker 1: But I also think he's right. You know, we're gonna

1125
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: be talking about this forever, and uh, you know, there's

1126
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: there's there's a chance that he's going to pop up

1127
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: in a lot of market history books going forward, all

1128
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: along with people like Roaring Kitty and Deep Fudging Value.

1129
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 1: All right, um, shall we leave it there. Let's leave

1130
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 1: it there. This has been another episode of the All

1131
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: Thoughts Podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me on

1132
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: Twitter at Tracy Alloway. And I'm Joe Wisenthal. You can

1133
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at The Stalwart. Follow our guest

1134
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: Rod Alsman on Twitter, He's at Rod Alsman, which is

1135
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: a l Z M, A N N. Check out his

1136
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: website g M E D D dot com. Also follow

1137
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 1: our producer Laura Carlson. She's at Laura M. Carlson. Follow

1138
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg head of podcast, Francesco Leavi at Francesca Today,

1139
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: and check out all of our podcasts at Bloomberg under

1140
01:00:51,600 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 1: the handle at podcasts. Thanks for listening to