1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to 2 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, 3 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: which you can find a link to in the show 4 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced 5 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right. 6 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: Enjoy the episode. Wilco's Jeff Tweety has written hundreds of 7 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: songs over his thirty year career. For some artists, that 8 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: would be an impossible feat, but Tweet's cracked his own 9 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: songwriting code and he's ready to share it. With Tweety's 10 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: work ethic, it's no surprise that eight months into the Pandemic, 11 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: he has a new solo album to share. This song, 12 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: Guess Again, is from his new project Love Is the King. 13 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: More surprising, though, is that he's found the time to 14 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: document the creative process behind his prodigious output, and a 15 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: book titled How to Write One Song, Tweety lays out 16 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: in his own workman like approach to songwriting. The book 17 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: reveals how he comes up with melodies, lyrics, and chords, 18 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: and even more importantly, how he finds the inspiration and 19 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 1: the time to write. Jeff Tweety spoke to Malcolm Gladwell 20 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: about his new book, explaining why he believes songwriting isn't 21 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: a mystical endeavor but something that can be honed with practice, 22 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: and at the end of the episode, he plays us 23 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,199 Speaker 1: through the writing of one of his new songs, step 24 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: by step. This is broken record liner notes for the 25 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Malcolm Gladwell with Jeff Tweety. 26 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: Can I start with this tantalizing little anecdote. You're telling 27 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: your book that when your dad got mad, he would 28 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: go into the basement and write poems. And all I 29 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: could think of is this is the Jeff Tweedy origin story? 30 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: Pretty much? I think so, Yeah, it was your father musical. 31 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:14,399 Speaker 1: My father was a frustrated entertainer. He got my mom 32 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: pregnant in high school and they dropped out and he 33 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: got a job on the railroad, and I think his 34 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: whole life, I think that he wished that he had 35 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: had an opportunity to be on stage somehow. But he 36 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: was not particularly musical, but he was entertaining, that's for sure. 37 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: But he aspired to be musically always. He liked to sing, 38 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: He drank a lot, and he got up at every 39 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: wedding and embarrassed us, terribly humiliated us in lots of cases. 40 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: But where's poems with any good? Yeah? I know my 41 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: dad was brilliant, you know, they weren't. I don't think 42 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: that they were good and like a Robert Frost way 43 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: or or but they might have been good in a 44 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: Jimmy Stewart kind of way or Ogden Nash maybe at 45 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: the high end of his aspirations. But you know, um, 46 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: he wouldn't have had any of those references other than 47 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: Jimmy Stewart. So but he did. You know, he made 48 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: un requited forays into indulging his musical side many times, 49 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: like he bought an organ from the mall that the 50 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: salesman claimed would teach him how to play, and he 51 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: would just sit there and watch the lights flash as 52 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: it would play itself, and drink a beer. It was. 53 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: I have a lot of memories of that. But the 54 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: poem he wrote, the poems when you said when he 55 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: was angry, Uh, that was my memory of them. Yeah, 56 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: and I sadly, you know, a couple of summers ago 57 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: when he passed away, we you know, we emptied out 58 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: the house, the house that I the only house i'd 59 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: ever lived in when, you know, like my parents bought 60 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: when my mom was pregnant with me, and I found 61 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: a lot of his homework from when he taught himself 62 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: or basically learned computing early on, uh, math homework and 63 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: stuff like that. But I didn't find any of the 64 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: notebooks that had any of the poems. So I suspect 65 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: that he just got it off his chest and then 66 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: threw him away, you know, Yeah, I just I just 67 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: love these kinds of generational parallels. It's almost like, you know, 68 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: if if if you were on the couch, I would say, 69 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: you're like tweety two points. No, you're like the do over, 70 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: the frustrated musician, who's who's writing these essentially lyrics sort, 71 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: and then you're you You You've come along and you've 72 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: turned it into an art. Well, yeah, I mean, there's 73 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: there are tons of parallels that I I mean, I 74 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: mean it's disturbing as you get older how much you 75 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: start to look like your parents, and I look like 76 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: exactly like my dad. And you know, I think he 77 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: suffered from a lot of the same mood disorders that 78 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: I've dealt with in my life. But he clumsily but somehow, 79 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, as far as employment goes, and far as 80 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: far as like not having worsening consequences, which would be 81 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: typical of alcoholism, he managed to medicate himself clumsily for 82 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: his entire life, you know, for anxiety. I'm sure he 83 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: had anxiety and depression. And yet and he did instinctively 84 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: seem to have turned to some of the same things 85 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: that have provided some solace for me that weren't unhealthy, 86 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 1: you know, like getting things off his chest. And you know, 87 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: I was indulged a lot, perhaps because I was a 88 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: do over. When did you write your first song? Do 89 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: you remember the first song I remember writing? And I'm 90 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 1: pretty sure that there were songs before this, But the 91 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: first song I remember writing was a song called Your 92 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: Little World, and it was about a girl and her 93 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: not having enough room in her world for me. And 94 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: how old you when you write it? It's maybe thirteen fourteen. 95 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: You don't remember it, do you? Your little World's much 96 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: too small? Oh, I ain't got no room at all. 97 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: It's so yeah, I was. I can remember. I could 98 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,239 Speaker 1: play it. Actually. One of the weird things is is that, uh, 99 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: this local musician who went by the name Joe Cammell 100 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: a band Joe Cammell in the Caucasians. They actually recorded 101 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: that song and and made a single out of it. 102 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: Really it is it exists, Yeah, yeah, is because I 103 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: was I was this kid that hung out with all 104 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: like at the record stores and hung out at the 105 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: you know, with around other musicians when I could get 106 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: near them, and I would always I write songs. And 107 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: this guy in this band, Joe Cambell, said hey, let 108 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: me hear one of your songs. And I went over 109 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: to his house and I played him this song. He said, oh, 110 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: that's great, I'm gonna record it. We're gonna like go 111 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: to record this song, and he did, It's fantastic. When 112 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: do you think you wrote your first good song? Well, 113 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: I honestly don't think that that one was terrible. I 114 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: think it's you know, it's it's not great, but it 115 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: was it was good enough for somebody else to want, 116 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: you know, see some potential in it. Um the first 117 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: song I liked that I wrote was probably screen Door 118 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: on the first um Uncle Tupelou record. You know, that's 119 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: the first one where I felt like I had said 120 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: something that felt true to me and that I didn't 121 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: necessarily have anybody else's song to convey that idea. I 122 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: always look at it like I'm trying to make songs 123 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: and a new song for me to sing that someone 124 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: hasn't already written. So that one was the first one 125 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: that felt like that, How old are you when you 126 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: write that song? Sixteen sixteen seventeen? Yeah, so pretty, it's funny. 127 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: I just I have heard musicians of various kinds answer 128 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: that question over the years, and there's a whole set 129 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: of them who, like, you know, ten years passed between 130 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: the first song they write and the first one they like. Yeah, 131 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: but you, you you have a much less um ambivalent 132 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: relationship to your early songwriting. One of the things I 133 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: feel like I've had some shame about in my life 134 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: is how shamelessly I love stuff that I make. And 135 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: I think, over time, I've really made peace with it 136 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: because I think that that's like kind of beautiful and 137 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: it's kind of one of the things that's allowed me 138 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: to grow. I don't I don't tend to keep liking 139 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: things that I've made. I tend to get pretty dissatisfied 140 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: with them over time. But when I initially even when 141 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: I figure out how to play something on the guitar 142 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: that someone else has done, I feel like I invented it. 143 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 1: I have this like, really you know, sort of delusional 144 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: relationship with the joy that I take from making something, 145 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: and I think that's that that really comes naturally. So 146 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: a lot of times, my favorite song is always the 147 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: one I'm working on. Almost invariably, I was like, Wow, 148 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: this is a this is really great, and it dissipates 149 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: over time. But but I've always felt like that, does 150 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: that make you a bad judge of your own song writing? 151 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: I think it does, and that's that's part of the 152 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: reason that I've had to learn a lot of different 153 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: ways to get out of the get my ego out 154 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: of the way, Like I allow things to just state 155 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: for a lot longer, or put them away and forget them, 156 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: forget about them so that I can come back to 157 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: them with a little bit more objectivity. But in general, 158 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,119 Speaker 1: I think it's just kind of the spirit of it 159 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: is what comes across a lot of times, and that 160 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: that that, in a lot of cases, is enough, because 161 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: you know, not every song has to be the greatest 162 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: song that's ever been written, but it's sure it helps 163 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: if you feel like it is at the moment in 164 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: the moment. You know, you describe in this lovely book 165 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: You've just done, how to write one song. Yeah, you 166 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:53,479 Speaker 1: describe a series of exercises songwriting exercises, and also describe 167 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 1: a kind of what a songwriting day should look like. 168 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: And I was curious before we go into that, how 169 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: long did you I mean, if that's the pattern of 170 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: song writing you practice, now, how long have you been 171 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 1: doing it that way? Did you always have this kind 172 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: of very structured way about writing music. No, I think 173 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: that I've as I've gotten older. I think one of 174 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: the things I've really had to learn how to do 175 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: is provide myself structure because I work in a profession 176 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: that doesn't have a lot of structure outside of touring, 177 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: which is extremely structured and routine. You know, but being 178 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: home has always been a little bit dangerous for me 179 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: in terms of my mental health. Though the routine has 180 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: been something I've had to learn and has helped me 181 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: a quite a bit. That being said, I don't remember 182 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: a time where I haven't felt like a kind of 183 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: a nagging sense all day that I should be making something, 184 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: or that I should be learning something, or I should 185 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: be reading something, or I should be listening to something 186 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: and that tends to provide a lot of momentum to 187 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: my days. This ugly feeling that I'm avoiding almost all 188 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: the time is that I don't want to get to 189 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: the end of the day and feel like I didn't 190 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: learn anything, or didn't didn't make something, or just didn't 191 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: participate in my life in the ways that I've found 192 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: to be the most enjoyable and helpful to me. You 193 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: described this ideal songwriting day. When was the last ideal 194 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: songwriting day you had and what did it look like. 195 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: It's been a while. I think the ideal day, the 196 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: last one I might have had, would have been during 197 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: the process of making the album I just really Loves 198 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: the King, where, you know, around eight o'clock at night 199 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: or something, I would have started working on a song 200 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: that I was thinking about recording. The next day, I 201 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: would have, you know, worked on it and played around 202 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: with it, maybe illuminated a little demo of it on 203 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 1: my phone until like maybe midnight, gone to sleep, woke up. 204 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: Probably would have finished the lyrics early in the morning 205 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: because that they tend to kind of un tangle themselves 206 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: in my sleep a lot of times, and I like 207 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: to I like to write even before I get out 208 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: of bed, you know, where I feel like I'm still 209 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: sort of you know, the judgment side of me is 210 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: still sleeping or something, you know, And I would have 211 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: gotten up and come to the studio, maybe worked on 212 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 1: that song for a little while in the studio, head lunch, 213 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: maybe taken a nap, would have gotten up from the nap, 214 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: finished the song, maybe invited my younger son over to 215 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: sing a harmony vocal on it. Common practice in that 216 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: moment when I'm asking someone else like Sammy to sing 217 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: on something would be to really focus on the lyrics 218 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: and make sure they're where I want them to be. 219 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: So I would have done some revisions on that, maybe 220 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: until around five or six, and have a rough mix 221 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: to take home and have some dinner and listen to 222 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: records generally until I get excited about trying to make 223 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: something to beat something I just heard, some sort of 224 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: like trying to activate some competitive side of my brain, 225 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: and then start the whole process over with maybe seeing 226 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: if I could, you know, come up with another song 227 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: for the next day. So, in your ideal world, is 228 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: it a song from start to finish in that one day, 229 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: or is it is it that you have little bits 230 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: and pieces already there that you're going back and finding 231 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: and playing with. I can do a song start to 232 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: finish in one day, but typically there are little pieces 233 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: of raw material that have been accumulated. Yeah. I think 234 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: one of the things I might do at eight o'clock, say, 235 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: the beginning of the day I just described, would be 236 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: to go through my phone and find a musical idea 237 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: that I'm excited by that I don't know. It just 238 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: catches me enough, unaware to start dreaming about it and 239 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: start like fantasizing about where it could go or what 240 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: it could sound like. Do you have your phone with 241 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: you right now? Can you play as a musical idea 242 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: of the phone? Sure? Let's see. Well this one sounds 243 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: a little bit maybe a little bit more finished than normal. 244 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: The tunnel at the end of the life, So that 245 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: is that Has that little bit been turned into a 246 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: song yet? Or is it just waiting? It's waiting, it's waiting. 247 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: I mean, there's and then there's stuff that's maybe I 248 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: don't even know what this is, just some chords I 249 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: thought were pretty, but yeah, there there there are dozens 250 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: or not dozens, there's probably literally hundreds of those things 251 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: in my phone. When they stack up a little bit, 252 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: I usually transfer some to the computer here at the loft, 253 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: so they're at least in a couple of places. Yeah, 254 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: so I'm vastly by this process. How long might some 255 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: a little bit linger on your phone or in your 256 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: archive before you use it? Is there stuff? And if 257 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: I if we went into that, you said sometimes you 258 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: download them on at the loft, how far back would 259 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: we have stuff there from ten years ago you've never used? Yeah, 260 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,719 Speaker 1: I mean probably there are. I used to do it 261 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: on cassettes and basically I used to just leave a 262 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: cassette in a dictaphone old style, like what you would 263 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: have Steno would have used, or someone in an all uh, 264 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, secretary pool, and I would just leave it 265 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: on the coffee table and until it filled up, and 266 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: then I'd put another cassette in. And there's there are 267 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: dozens of those cassettes. And like um on the Suki 268 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: ray album that I made under the name Tweetye, there's 269 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: a song on there that I finished after fourteen years. 270 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: I think it's called I'll Sing It. Was there a 271 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: little snippet of it that was the original stippet. It's 272 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: actually in the track I actually just played over the 273 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: cassette version. Yeah, yeah, and then and then I think 274 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: that ended up on the Summer Teeth box set that 275 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: we just put out because it was written around the 276 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: same time as Summer Teeth. Yeah, when you go back 277 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: and find a little snippet like that, do you remember 278 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: when you created the snippet or is that gone? It depends. 279 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: A lot of times I don't remember at all. I 280 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: have no recollection at all of a lot of times 281 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: I don't even remember the tuning, and I have to 282 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,239 Speaker 1: like sit and figure out because I use a lot 283 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: of different tunings, and I really hate it when I 284 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: don't bother to tune the guitar to a standard pitch 285 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: because then it makes it even harder to figure out 286 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: what tuning I'm in and stuff like that. So a 287 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: lot of times it's it's completely gone wherever it happened, 288 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: which is kind of I love it when that happens, 289 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: even though it can be frustrating trying to relearn it. 290 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: But then there are times where I absolutely have a 291 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: distinct memory of where I was and what was happening. 292 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: And a lot of times that's because there are other 293 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: ambient elements that made it made their way onto the recording. 294 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: I like, say, backstage and somebody and Wilco walks through 295 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: and says something, and I can I can viscerally feel 296 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: that that room and I'll know even what city it was. 297 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: In a lot of cases, sometimes when I'm doing it 298 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: in hotel rooms in Europe and you have the windows open. 299 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: Whenever we're fortunate enough to find a hotel that has 300 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: windows that open, you hear like people leading on at 301 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: the cafes or something like that. That's those are always 302 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: really kind of special recordings that a lot of times 303 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: mean a lot to me even without them being finished. Yeah. 304 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: We did an interview with Norah Jones while back now 305 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: and she was talking about how she did her song 306 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: Wintertime with You, and she was talking about this this 307 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: very process that she had some scraps, little bits and pieces, 308 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: and you had bits and pieces and you kind of 309 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: put it together to create a really beautiful song. Can 310 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: you can you because walk us through that that little 311 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: case study of this time with a twist with another 312 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: person involved, but doing seems like both of you were 313 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: doing doing the work of creativity in the same way. 314 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: Is that true? Yeah? I think that well, first of all, 315 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: Norah Jones doesn't need me to help her write a song, 316 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: for sure, But but we admire each other, so there's 317 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: a there's already a kind of a base level of 318 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: camaraderie or something, you know. But I haven't found many 319 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: people that I've worked with to have just wildly different 320 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: approaches to it. Everybody seems to have sort of the 321 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: core process is sort of similar. You basically start with 322 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: something that is nothing, you know, that feels but feels 323 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: like it could be something, and then you basically surrender 324 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: this idea that you can't you can't do that, you 325 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: can't make something out of nothing, and you do it. 326 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: And it's really the most important part is just letting 327 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 1: go of the idea that it can't happen. I think, 328 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: and with someone else it requires a lot of waiting 329 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: until you both have both people have to feel comfortable 330 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: and supported enough and trusting enough to kind of throw 331 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: out ideas until you know, a light bulb goes off 332 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: in two heads at once. It's a little bit more 333 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: foolproof in a way because you have that consensus of 334 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: universality for two people, as opposed to like just trying 335 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: to imagine that everybody will like something you like. We'll 336 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: be right back with more from Jeff Tweety. After the break, 337 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: We're back with more of Malcolm's conversation with Jeff Tweety. 338 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: You've done an unusual amount of collaboration with other artists 339 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: you write for, maybe Staples. You did those beautiful Mermaid 340 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: Avenue albums with Billy Bragg that I are among my favorites. 341 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: When you're writing with another person in mind, does it 342 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: change the way you write a song? Yeah, I think 343 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: it does. I honestly think that that is the thing 344 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: that I am most comfortable doing. I think it's the 345 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: thing I truly aspired to do more than almost any 346 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: other thing that I get to do. I always pictured 347 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: myself being a person that would write songs for other 348 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: people to sing, and Uncle Tupelo. I wanted my songs 349 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: to be sung by Jay because he had this magnificent, 350 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: like rich, authoritative voice, and I had this squeaky, you 351 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: know voice that I didn't feel like was quite my own, 352 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,959 Speaker 1: even at the time I was struggling to find it. 353 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: As much as I felt great when I sang, I 354 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: just loved the idea of writing the song more than 355 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: the idea of singing it. And I still think that 356 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 1: that's where my most natural abilities lie is in helping 357 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: somebody with another with their song, like working with Nora 358 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 1: or finding something for someone to sing like Mavis. I 359 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: don't look at it is like I'm putting words in 360 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 1: her mouth. I feel like I'm just kind of helping 361 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: find something that she feels comfortable singing that makes sense 362 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 1: for her to sing. Same thing with the Woody Guthrie lyrics. 363 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: That was even more along the lines of what I feel. 364 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: I have the strongest sense about it as being something 365 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: that comes naturally to me because those lyrics were sacrosanct. 366 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: You know, they're They're like you know, you're not gonna 367 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: you're not gonna mess with them. They're there. You don't 368 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 1: even need to worry about whether or not they're good enough. 369 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: They're important for people that don't know. There were all 370 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: these lyrics at Woody Guthrie left behind that the music 371 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: was never documented or he never really made any music 372 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: for There's all these archival lyrics and writing that we 373 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: took and made songs out of, and with those I 374 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: would just sit and read them over and over and 375 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: over again until the meter would emerge. And then next 376 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: there would be a melody that would emerge, and a 377 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: lot of cases with Woody Guthroe lyrics, you read it 378 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden a Carter Family song emerges, 379 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: because that's what he was actually writing his lyrics to 380 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,479 Speaker 1: was someone else's song. I did the same thing with 381 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: a bunch of lyrics for Bob Dylan that never came 382 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: out because I wasn't able to be a part of 383 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: that process for that record that they did a couple 384 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: of years ago where they had a bunch of lyrics 385 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: that Dylan had written. It's like Elvis Costello was a 386 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: part of it and some of the US mumfordness. But anyway, 387 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: t Bone had asked me if I could do it, 388 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: and I got all these lyrics, and then my wife 389 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: started treatment for cancer, so I couldn't go to LA 390 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: for the amount of time that they wanted me to. 391 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 1: But I did the same thing with those lyrics I wrote, 392 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: I wrote and recorded a whole record in a weekend. Like, 393 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: did you find it sort of freeing to not have 394 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: to do it in your own with you with your 395 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,719 Speaker 1: own voice in mind? Yeah? I think that I just 396 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: struggle with allowing myself to comment on certain things that 397 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: I don't feel like I have the authoritative weight to 398 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: weigh in on, for for in terms of like Mavis 399 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: or something like that, or the things that I feel 400 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: like Mavis has a voice of righteousness of some you know, 401 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: of some broader scope in a historical importance and place. 402 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: You know, there's just a weight to it that. Um, 403 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: I feel very privileged to have been able to write for. 404 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: But um, a lot of those things are are not 405 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: going to make as much sense coming out of my mouth. 406 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: It just doesn't feel right for what for a lot 407 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: of you know, social reasons. I think what's the right 408 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: word to describe your attitude towards your own voice? Are 409 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: you self conscious about it? No? I mean dot com 410 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: about Tupelo and how you preferred if No. I feel 411 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: like I've gotten way better as a singer, and I've 412 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: worked really hard to get better over a lot of time. 413 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: And I actually I enjoy my voice, my singing voice 414 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: quite a bit. I actually do like listening to myself 415 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: sing now when I find things that I want to 416 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: sing a lot of cases, i feel like I'm the 417 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: only person that could sing it the way I want 418 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: to hear it. But that doesn't mean that I'm oblivious 419 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: to the fact that my voice isn't technically great in 420 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: the you know, by the normal criteria of American idol 421 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: or the voice or you know, whatever, whatever you know. 422 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 1: But all my favorite singers are like that. Almost all 423 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: my favorite singers have non traditional voices that have become communicative. 424 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: You know. It's like it's like where they they trade 425 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: virtuosity or technique or whatever for sincerity or or or 426 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: sentiment and conviction. And I feel like I found that 427 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: in my voice over time, and I'm very, very proud 428 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: of the idea that I still work at getting better 429 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: and try and sing in tune, you know. But I'm 430 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: more I'm much more concerned with making the words feel 431 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: the way I want them to feel. My speaking voice, 432 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: on the other hand, is awful. I cannot. I will 433 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: never listen to the book that I just read or 434 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: this interview. I might listen to you do another interview 435 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: with someone else. But wait, so on this point in 436 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: the book, you talk about stealing, but you're being you're 437 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: being a little bit mischievous because you don't really mean stealing, 438 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: but you're talking about being open to influence essentially, So 439 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: give me an example of another artist whose work you 440 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 1: find lots of stuff to borrow from and be inspired by. 441 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: And I'm just curious, does it come from everywhere? Are 442 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: there predictable places where you go to find ideas well? 443 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: The thing I'm describing in the book is just based 444 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: on this belief that you can't really copyright a group 445 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: of chords. What I'm describing in the book is basically 446 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: me saying, well, I'm going to look for a song 447 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: that I think has a bunch of cool chords in it, 448 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:36,959 Speaker 1: and I'm going to learn how to play it, and 449 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: then I'm going to take it and make it into 450 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: something that no one would hear that song in it anymore. 451 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: But it's basically like just when you're a little bit stuck, 452 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,479 Speaker 1: just realizing that the world is full of these, you know, 453 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: sort of naturally occurring shapes that you can appropriate. You know, 454 00:28:54,800 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: I don't look at them as being particularly ownable by 455 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: by anybody, and especially if I don't, you know, sing 456 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: the same type of song or put the same type 457 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: of melody over it, or even have the same rhythm 458 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: or you know, there are many many ways to describe it. 459 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: But it's such a it's such a liberating thing to do, 460 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: to just go, oh, I'll just take these chords and 461 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: and and start there because I haven't been able to 462 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: come up with anything all day. That being said, there 463 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: are just tons and tons of artists, new and old, 464 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 1: every day of my life that I encounter, and to me, 465 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: you have to work to not encounter art that inspires you, 466 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: I think, and I think that that does overwhelm people. 467 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: I think sometimes some people do get to a certain 468 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: point where they want to hide from influence or hide 469 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: from the feeling that they're being challenged by other artists. 470 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: But I look at it like most of the time 471 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: I get that way too. I can, I can feel 472 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: overwhelmed sometimes, but more often than not, I feel really 473 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: invigorated by the fact that if I go looking, it 474 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: won't take me long at all define something that shows 475 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: me where the bar is that I should be aiming for. 476 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: What's an example of a song you listened to recently 477 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: that triggered all kinds of reactions and inspirations in you. 478 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: You know, Kate Kate Lebon writes a lot of music 479 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: that makes me feel that way. She's just the first 480 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: person that popped into my mind. She's an artist that 481 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: has this undeniable kate lebon about what she does, you know, 482 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: like we're and that's that's that's hard to find, you know. 483 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: I think there's she has a very specific angle that 484 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: she comes at what she does, and nobody else knows 485 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: that precise angle. I think the song um Meet the Man, 486 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: I wanted to Meet the Man. I think that's the 487 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: name of it's. I think it's the last song on 488 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: her most recent record. It has all of these twists 489 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: and turns that are unpredictable. And I don't know, when 490 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: you listen to that song, can you turn off the 491 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: part of your brain that wants to to kind of 492 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: learn from it, use it, employ it in some way, 493 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: and just enjoy it or do you Is that part 494 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: of the brain always on? Well, that is how I 495 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: enjoy it. I think that I think that is part 496 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: of how I enjoy it. I think I enjoy it 497 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: first and foremost the way I have enjoyed music since 498 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: I was a little kid, before I played any music 499 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: or wrote any music, I am just attracted to sound 500 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: and excited by records. And I don't think that that's 501 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: any different. But I don't feel burdened by the knowledge 502 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: that I have now, and I think it's it's just 503 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: adds this insight, like, oh wow, I can kind of 504 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: tell what Reaver is going on there. But that being said, 505 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: the things that I tend to enjoy the most are 506 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: the things that I have zero idea how they came 507 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: to be. Those are the things I listened to, you know, 508 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: like have more repeated listenings, tend to be like some 509 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: hip hop records and things that are outside of my 510 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: skill set, and and you know, and then there then 511 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: there are times where I crave comfort food, where I 512 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: just want to hear a simple country song played on 513 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: an acoustic guitar. And I have a very very firm 514 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: grasp on how that comes to be, but it doesn't 515 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,479 Speaker 1: diminish its importance in my life. You know, is there 516 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: an artist, a contemporary of yours whose career you would 517 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: have loved to have? No? I honestly, I've thought about 518 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: that a lot. I have moments where I have a 519 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: professional jealousy. I think it'd be impossible not to have 520 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: these moments, especially if you're somewhat competitive like I am. 521 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: I think it's like, whise everybody writing about this guy now, 522 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: I'd like, you know, like that, like I'm not ashamed 523 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: to admit I have, Like you know, it's it's it's 524 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: not the end of the world to admit you have 525 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: petty feelings, you know. But but but honestly, I don't 526 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: think so, because when I take a step back, the 527 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: prevailing emotion is gratitude. I mean, would this is nothing 528 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: like I would have been ever been able to imagine 529 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: for myself, you know, thirty years in from my first 530 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: time probably playing on a stage or you know, getting 531 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: in front of people. We'll be right back with more 532 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: from Jeff Tweety. We're back with the rest of Malcolm's 533 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: conversation with Jeff Tweety. It would be really fun if 534 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: we put together a bunch of the stuff we've been 535 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: talking about in a song, like is there a song 536 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: that you could break down, play and break down for us? 537 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: Will you talk about all the little pieces that brought 538 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: it together, how the song was created, the little bits 539 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: of influence if you remember them, is the one that's 540 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: that fresh in your remember that you could do that 541 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: a little mini masterclass. Let me think, I have a 542 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: guitar here, so that's the g cord I always play 543 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: when I pick up a guitar. It's inadvertence variant gweet, 544 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: it's pretty it's my grounding. Well, there's a song on 545 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: the new record called Opaline where um. I was writing 546 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: it this summer or this spring when there was so 547 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: much going on in the world, and our relationships with 548 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: our police departments were being investigated and talked about a lot. 549 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 1: So I'm not a person that's ever had that feeling. 550 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: I've never really been a fan of police because I've 551 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: always felt like police had a lot more to do 552 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: with um, their mentality, had a lot more to do 553 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: with the people that made fun of me in school 554 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: and were more jockey, and it's just a general atmosphere 555 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: around police that I've not enjoyed. But I've not had 556 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: this experience that a lot of minorities have had with 557 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: police in this country. And I'm aware of that, but 558 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: I was trying to put myself into that that headspace 559 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: of living with that fear. So those were those were 560 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: the lyrics that I was playing around with. Is like, 561 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: I hear the police outside my window. I can hear 562 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: them talking on their radios and uh yeah, police, that's 563 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: my window. I can hear them talking all the radios. 564 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: I keyed my head my pillow pray that they're gonna 565 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:22,479 Speaker 1: lea me alone. Um. So that's like just one little 566 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: chunk of the song that was a melody that I 567 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: had without any words. Did you write that chunk first? Yeah? 568 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: I did, And then I had a piece that was like, oh, 569 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't really have any lyrics, so I 570 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: was I. Um. We had a golden orb weave spider 571 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: weaver spider in our garden this spring that um I 572 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: named Opaline for some reason, just because it just seemed 573 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,800 Speaker 1: like a cool name. I had an aunt Opal and 574 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: so I just start singing to her, Oh, oh, belief, 575 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: make believe that you still lovely? Oh who believe? It's 576 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: hard to s reality when you got no love it all. 577 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: So that's just writing a country song that's just trying 578 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: to figure out a way to get to the line. 579 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: Reality is hard to see when you've got no love 580 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: at all. Because one of the things that has been 581 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: on my mind a lot these last few years, or 582 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, for a while now, is how do you 583 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: get to the point where reality doesn't matter? And it 584 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: obviously is very negotiable for a lot of people in 585 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: our information climate that we can shop for a reality 586 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: that we trust and believe, and there isn't a shared 587 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: consensus a lot of times, which is really maddening and 588 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,280 Speaker 1: strange to witness. We don't even have the same agreed 589 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: upon fictions anymore, you know. Like so it's it's really troubling. 590 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: And my theory is that must be a lot easier 591 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: to do when people have been isolated from a lot 592 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:38,320 Speaker 1: of their feelings of being cared for or having affection 593 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: and warmth in their life. So you have in a song, 594 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: you've got opening image of the kid in bed, head 595 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: under the pillow and hearing the cops outside and worrying, 596 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: and then you have opaline. Yeah, and then you also 597 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: have there's other other interesting element is it's very plainly 598 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,839 Speaker 1: a country song. But we're not in country territory, are 599 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: uh well, I mean country territory is pretty pretty vast 600 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,280 Speaker 1: in my opinion. It's it's it's to me where country 601 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 1: music fails is when it tries to adhere to the 602 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: tropes of country music and becomes like Civil War reenactment 603 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,280 Speaker 1: or something. It's, you know, it's not it's not about 604 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: what's happening. And this is this is a weird song 605 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: for me to pick, but I'm going to stick with 606 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,879 Speaker 1: it now because we're in it. But you know, this 607 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: is this is like a This is a little bit 608 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: of a pastiche to where I got all of these 609 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: elements to make sense to me and feel good to me. 610 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: There's a story that runs through it that feels apprehendable 611 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: to me, you know. So, so I had that, and 612 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: that's probably what I put in my phone first, aside 613 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: from the initial chord progression that I might have hummed over. 614 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: That was like the first document of this song. And 615 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: then um, I was out driving my car on a 616 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: toll road right after that, and there was a hearse 617 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:17,800 Speaker 1: on a toll road outside Chicago, and this literally literally happened. 618 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: And I went through a toll next to a to 619 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: a hearse, And as I went through the toll, I 620 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 1: looked back and the hearse was stuck at the toll 621 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: like it didn't have any money or whatever. But as 622 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: I kept driving, I kept looking in the rear view 623 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: mirror and it was it just kept not being let 624 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: through the toll, and I just felt like I'd been 625 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: hit over the head with one of the most striking 626 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: metaphors I'd ever encountered in the real world. You know, 627 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 1: like what is you know, what is purgatory? I don't know, 628 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: Like I was just just just one of the craziest things. 629 00:40:53,960 --> 00:41:00,240 Speaker 1: And so I actually wrote this in the car into 630 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: my phone or just voice memoed into my phone. There's 631 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: nothing worse than a hers driving slow, add on the 632 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: toe way, stopping at the tolls, no change, no easy pass, 633 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 1: what a way to go? There's nothing words than a 634 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: herse driving slow. Oh oh belief? You know? Then you 635 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: get back into the chest do why we don't question, 636 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: but you had the herse experience, and you had these 637 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: two little bits that you've already done. Why do you 638 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: think the herse experience belongs to this song or not 639 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: any number of other things that you have stashed away 640 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: for future reference. How do you know it belongs here? 641 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: It's just what was in my mind. So I don't 642 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: really think of things as accidents that I need to 643 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: really investigate. And it just it sang well to these 644 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,280 Speaker 1: this melody before I could even make a decision about 645 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: where it should go, do you know what I mean? 646 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 1: It's like that song was already in my mind. I'd 647 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: been working on it, so, um, those are the those 648 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: are the patterns that you walk around with when you 649 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,840 Speaker 1: have a song in your head. And that's one of 650 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: the reasons I enjoy having a song on my head 651 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: because then everything that happens to me is D D D, 652 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,320 Speaker 1: you know, like everything fits in that melody. It makes 653 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: them that makes some order out of the world. I 654 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 1: suppose you know, So those lyrics that you just sang 655 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: for me, is that exactly as you compose them in 656 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 1: the car? Would you fiddle with them later? No, that's 657 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 1: exactly as I composed them in the carner. And did 658 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: you compose them in the car like like off the 659 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,719 Speaker 1: cuff or did you were you playing within your mind 660 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: before you record it? I played with it in my 661 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: mind a little bit before I decided that I should 662 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 1: document it before I get home. Yeah, you know. And 663 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: again I'm sorry. Now I'm told I can't get over 664 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: the zac is so much fun? Do you pull over 665 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 1: or do you keep driving and you're singing into your phone? Well, 666 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: I mean not to get too technical, but I pressed 667 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,480 Speaker 1: a button on my phone that allowed me to record 668 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: it without having to take my eyes off the road. No, 669 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: I didn't mean I was suggesting you were an unsafe driver, 670 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 1: But I was suggesting, like does he. I was imagined 671 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: there was a scenario where you're so caught up in 672 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 1: this that you're like, I gotta focus, and you're like 673 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,359 Speaker 1: pull it into the you know, the ihop parking lot, 674 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,759 Speaker 1: and but no, no, you're just you're just driving me, 675 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: rolling down the road, singing this into your phone. Yeah. 676 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: I love also that you know nine of humanity seize 677 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: the hers. I thought it doesn't see the hers seize 678 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: the hers and doesn't immediately understand that the perfection of 679 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:14,600 Speaker 1: that metaphor. Well, I feel like you're attuned you. You 680 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 1: are attuned to these things. Thank you. I think we 681 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 1: all should be. I mean, we're like we're walking around 682 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,640 Speaker 1: and there's no there's no failed experiment if you're paying 683 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: attention to the world. I think we get tired. I 684 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: think we get overwhelmed, like I was saying before, with 685 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 1: like inspiration or influence and things like that. And you know, 686 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: we're not always receptive and we're not always we don't 687 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: always have the energy or a lot of us have 688 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,279 Speaker 1: a lot of concerns all the time about a lot 689 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: of other things that would require more mental energy than 690 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 1: we have, and that tends to crowd out a lot 691 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,560 Speaker 1: of you know, paying attention to the strangeness of the 692 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,399 Speaker 1: world or the you know. I don't feel like I'm 693 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 1: doing anything super unique in that guard. I just think 694 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,919 Speaker 1: that I am aware that my brain wants to make 695 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,239 Speaker 1: sense of stuff, and I give it an opportunity to 696 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 1: make sense of stuff, you know, or actively participate in 697 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: the fact that it does that. I think all of 698 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,439 Speaker 1: our brains do that. All of our brains would much 699 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 1: prefer to find some reason for something to be the 700 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 1: way it is, then for to try and accept and 701 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: understand ambiguity and randomness and and things like that. So 702 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:34,040 Speaker 1: we're designed to do that, and then sometimes it hits 703 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 1: you over the head because it is just too perfect 704 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:43,640 Speaker 1: and beautiful, like a hearse being stuck at a toll booth. Class. Well, 705 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,640 Speaker 1: you're not done, We're not done. Keep going. Well the thing, 706 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, So there's another verse or verse and the 707 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:56,839 Speaker 1: chorus versus a chorus. And then by that time I 708 00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: think I had already recorded it, and I recorded the 709 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 1: song without any lyrics. I didn't sing it. I just 710 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,959 Speaker 1: was just and then I envisioned this like um long 711 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:19,319 Speaker 1: outro guitar solo. So I needed another verse and I 712 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,359 Speaker 1: needed something that was going to set up a long 713 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:26,160 Speaker 1: guitar solo into a last chorus, And that was actually 714 00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: the hardest part because I wanted something that sort of 715 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:33,640 Speaker 1: tied those two pieces together a little bit, at least 716 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:39,520 Speaker 1: ambiently somehow. So I came up. I came up with 717 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of things that I actually changed over time, 718 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,320 Speaker 1: and I can't remember all the different changes because I 719 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,480 Speaker 1: only know. I only remember what I ended up on. 720 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: But it was i'd like to find out, Well, she 721 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:09,320 Speaker 1: had to go my heart wants or a heart can't control. 722 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 1: So I hang in the air. That's the light gets cold, 723 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: and I had in his shadows welcome home, and then 724 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,719 Speaker 1: it goes into the solo there. But to me it 725 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: was kind of like I had become the guy that 726 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,920 Speaker 1: was hiding from the cops. They got killed, they got 727 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,000 Speaker 1: murdered by cops, that ended up on the highway in 728 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 1: a hearse, not having the change even the money to 729 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 1: go through a toll, you know, comically dark even in 730 00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:02,920 Speaker 1: in uh my demise, still come completely just devoid of 731 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:07,360 Speaker 1: any luck whatsoever, you know, which is a country trope 732 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: in a way, you know, just like the beautiful loser 733 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:15,320 Speaker 1: um but still but still singing this is a theme 734 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,799 Speaker 1: on the record. Actually is still singing from beyond the 735 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: grave to this woman who basically took took everything away 736 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:28,760 Speaker 1: in his opinion or his feeling, but knowing basically saying, 737 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: I'm I'm still gonna be in that air that you breathe, 738 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,919 Speaker 1: I'm still gonna be. I can't have what I want, 739 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,120 Speaker 1: but I can still imagine that you are going to 740 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 1: think about me from time to time. And it's a 741 00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,640 Speaker 1: it's a sad, pathetic notion that a lot of a 742 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,960 Speaker 1: lot of weak men have and I've had in my life. 743 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:54,719 Speaker 1: And and is that, um, you'll miss me when I'm gone? 744 00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:03,520 Speaker 1: And uh, I think it's more often than not wishful thinking. Yeah, 745 00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,560 Speaker 1: where Jeff, you need to finish the song for us? 746 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 1: Oh well, there's just one more chorus. It's fun, It's 747 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:22,040 Speaker 1: so beautiful. Thank you. Oh, oh, believe me. Believe that 748 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 1: she still love me. Oh, belief. It's hard to seriality 749 00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:42,720 Speaker 1: when you've got no love it all. I love that. Hello, 750 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,799 Speaker 1: thank you, well, thank you, Jeff. I think that's a 751 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,160 Speaker 1: lovely way to wrap things up. Well, I appreciate it. 752 00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:57,040 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thanks to Jeff Tweedy for breaking 753 00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,560 Speaker 1: down a songwriting for us. You can hear all of 754 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 1: our favorite Jeff Tweety songs on my playlist at broken 755 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 1: record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our 756 00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken record Podcast. 757 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,600 Speaker 1: There you can find extended cuts of our new and 758 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,480 Speaker 1: old episodes. Broken Record is produced with helpful Leah Rose, 759 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:20,720 Speaker 1: Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler and his executive produced 760 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,800 Speaker 1: by Mia LaBelle. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin 761 00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,879 Speaker 1: Industries and if you like Broken Record, please remember to share, 762 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,960 Speaker 1: rate and review our show on your podcast. To have 763 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,440 Speaker 1: our theme musics by Kenny Beats, I'm justin Richmond Pace