1
00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,200
Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From House stuff

2
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:14,080
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm

3
00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:20,479
Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And Caroline. Would you characterize yourself

4
00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:25,480
Speaker 1: when you were a child as a tomboy? You know, Kristen,

5
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think I would have at

6
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,840
Speaker 1: the time, but I think it's because I didn't think

7
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,680
Speaker 1: about it. But now that I look back, I absolutely

8
00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,160
Speaker 1: was one because I played with the boys next door.

9
00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,519
Speaker 1: We we rough house, and we played with monster truck cars,

10
00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:42,920
Speaker 1: and we played out in the yard and in the mud.

11
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,680
Speaker 1: And there was one I'll go ahead and tell it.

12
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,760
Speaker 1: There was one particular afternoon in the Atlanta, Georgia's sun

13
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,120
Speaker 1: that was so hot, and the boys, who I had

14
00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,800
Speaker 1: grown up with since we were in diapers together, you know,

15
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,680
Speaker 1: they took their shirts off and I was like, keep

16
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,880
Speaker 1: in mind, I was very little, bowl but I was like,

17
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,160
Speaker 1: I'm hot. So I ran into my mommy and I

18
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,000
Speaker 1: was like, Mommy, can I take my shirt off too?

19
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,000
Speaker 1: And then Sally just let forth this sigh while she

20
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:14,440
Speaker 1: was folding laundry. I was like, alright, but just stay

21
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:19,240
Speaker 1: stay in in the play area. Good for you, Sally. Yeah,

22
00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,280
Speaker 1: she was like, whatever, I mean, I think the two

23
00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:23,959
Speaker 1: boys and I had seen each other naked from the

24
00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,160
Speaker 1: time we were babies anyway, So whatever. Well, here's a quick,

25
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 1: uh a checklist, a tomboy index, and we can see

26
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,520
Speaker 1: if you if you really fit into it. This is

27
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,080
Speaker 1: coming from a studied child. Tomboy is um an adult

28
00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:43,680
Speaker 1: androgeny by Sean Megan byrne A, Kathleen O'Neil, and Shirley Neederland,

29
00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:49,400
Speaker 1: and they developed a twelve item tomboy is um index,

30
00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,920
Speaker 1: which delighted me to no end because I'm just so

31
00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,280
Speaker 1: happy when academics do things like make tomboy indexes. So

32
00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:01,800
Speaker 1: here we go. Uh. Preferred shorts or jeans to dresses. Yeah, well,

33
00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,080
Speaker 1: I wasn't even split, but now in life I prefer

34
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,000
Speaker 1: pants and jeans. Preferred traditional boys toys over girls toys.

35
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:14,080
Speaker 1: I hadn't even split. Resembled a boy in appearance. I

36
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,040
Speaker 1: did rock a while I was a toddler. I had

37
00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:21,200
Speaker 1: a bowl cut, for sure. I wish you were a boy.

38
00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:27,120
Speaker 1: No prefer traditionally boys activities. Even even Split had girlfriends

39
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,120
Speaker 1: that were tom boys. Yeah, participated in traditionally male sports

40
00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,520
Speaker 1: with boys. I hate competition. And avoid sports at all costs.

41
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,400
Speaker 1: By the way, I wish this was a Cosmo quiz.

42
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,280
Speaker 1: I feel like Cosmo quiz right now you were? Were

43
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,480
Speaker 1: you loud or boisterous all the way? Forever? Did? The

44
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,960
Speaker 1: whole life? You couldn't even finish the question. So, yes,

45
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,880
Speaker 1: you were preferred playing with boys over girls. Yeah? Yeah,

46
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,600
Speaker 1: used traditionally girls toys in traditional boy activities like would

47
00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:01,160
Speaker 1: your Barbie have been driving a back for uck? No,

48
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 1: she did have an awesome jeep, though engaged in rough

49
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,760
Speaker 1: and tumble play. Yeah, I guess played with many different

50
00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:15,640
Speaker 1: peer groups. Sure, Caroline, i'd clear you a tomboy sweet? Uh,

51
00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,440
Speaker 1: how are you fair? How do I fare? Oh? I was?

52
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,800
Speaker 1: I was pretty pretty tomboyish when I was a kid.

53
00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,760
Speaker 1: I started out My mother initially dressed me in nothing

54
00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,920
Speaker 1: but dresses because I had hand me downs from two

55
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,679
Speaker 1: older sisters, and pretty much as soon as I could

56
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,400
Speaker 1: start dressing myself, um, I really preferred to wear like

57
00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:40,880
Speaker 1: soccer shorts and T shirts and i umbros. I rocked

58
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,800
Speaker 1: some umbroso and those were the hand me downs from

59
00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,200
Speaker 1: my my brother who was a soccer player. And I

60
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:52,440
Speaker 1: also distinctly remember playing basketball with said soccer playing brother

61
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,680
Speaker 1: and being like hold on, hold on, time out. I

62
00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 1: got a spit and it ain't like hawking a lugie

63
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,440
Speaker 1: and just waiting for his approval, to which he was

64
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,720
Speaker 1: like Chris and kod agree. Um. Although you know what

65
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,840
Speaker 1: it's it's useful to be able to talk a lugie.

66
00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,160
Speaker 1: Sometimes you need to do that. Um. And we are

67
00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 1: not alone by a long shot in our tomboy is um.

68
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,360
Speaker 1: It's it is interesting to to go through these studies

69
00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:29,200
Speaker 1: on girls and gender and tomboy is um and not

70
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,360
Speaker 1: only look at these, you know, things like the tomboy index,

71
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 1: which you know, the list is not that surprising. These

72
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,600
Speaker 1: are kind of traits that we would commonly associate with tomboys. UM.

73
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:42,320
Speaker 1: But also where the term even came from, because it

74
00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,480
Speaker 1: has quite a rich history. Yeah, I had I had

75
00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,920
Speaker 1: no idea. I had no idea that the word tom

76
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,000
Speaker 1: had so many meanings. But the etymology apparently one of

77
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:58,240
Speaker 1: the slang meetings for Tom's prostitute. Uh multiple connotations male

78
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:03,320
Speaker 1: sexual predators or Tom cat clowns, tom fools and lesbians,

79
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,440
Speaker 1: tommy girls. So so tom tom is very versatile and

80
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:12,520
Speaker 1: it's actually been around for a long time. The concept

81
00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,640
Speaker 1: originated in the sixteenth century, but it initially referred to

82
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:21,760
Speaker 1: rowdy gentlemen courtiers. Yeah. According to the Oxford English Dictionary,

83
00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:27,320
Speaker 1: tomboy first appeared in fifteen fifty three, applying to bad

84
00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:33,159
Speaker 1: boys who were prone to quote unquote whiskey ing, whisky skiing. Well,

85
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 1: the definition shifted in the fifteen seventies to girls and women.

86
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,039
Speaker 1: These were bold and immodest women, so not necessarily what

87
00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,400
Speaker 1: we think of now. The the definition of tomboy that

88
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 1: we think of now came to being in the late

89
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,919
Speaker 1: fifteen hundreds, early sixteen hundreds, when it's more of the

90
00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 1: you know, the the girl who plays with the boys,

91
00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,520
Speaker 1: et cetera. Yeah, a rough and tumble, boisterous woman. Um.

92
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,040
Speaker 1: And we found a book called The Unwritten History and

93
00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,640
Speaker 1: Hidden History of Tomboy is um in the United States

94
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 1: by Michelle and Abbott, and she traces this history of

95
00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:14,920
Speaker 1: tomboys and makes an interesting connection between the emergence more

96
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:21,040
Speaker 1: modern emergence of tomboys, not just among children, because first

97
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,480
Speaker 1: we have the outdoors pal and it's more of this, Uh,

98
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 1: it's only applied to kids, you know, like girls who

99
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,600
Speaker 1: kind of like scalp in to kill a mockingbird who

100
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,440
Speaker 1: are a little rough around the edges, and they like

101
00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,920
Speaker 1: playing and they're you know, scrappy little kids. And then

102
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:42,279
Speaker 1: it becomes translated to more of a womanly context. Yeah.

103
00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 1: She points out in her book the introduction in her

104
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,880
Speaker 1: book that there are certain views of tomboys, their icons

105
00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:54,200
Speaker 1: of feminist defiance, their symbols of juvenile delinquency, and precursors

106
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,960
Speaker 1: of sexual deviance. So there's like a very loaded meaning

107
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,599
Speaker 1: behind a tomboy. She writes, the tomboys disrupted the rigid

108
00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,760
Speaker 1: dichotomy separating good and bad female conduct that critics have

109
00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,120
Speaker 1: identified as a defining feature of Anglo American girlhood. Yeah,

110
00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:15,080
Speaker 1: and then it evolves into this almost positive challenge to

111
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:21,680
Speaker 1: gender roles and speaks a lot to the um, I

112
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:27,400
Speaker 1: guess the power of masculinity, like speaking at that time

113
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,640
Speaker 1: where masculinite was obviously more preferred than than femininity, whereas

114
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's soft, it's weak, and you know we're

115
00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,760
Speaker 1: very Victorian and fainting couches and all of that. Whereas

116
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,440
Speaker 1: men were men, they could do things, they could cut

117
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,360
Speaker 1: trees down. And I found it interesting that um that

118
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:51,880
Speaker 1: Abbott quotes Hemingway's Garden of Eden's character Catherine, when she

119
00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 1: this character cuts her hair and then says, you see,

120
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,960
Speaker 1: that's the surprise. I'm a girl, but I'm not a

121
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,360
Speaker 1: boy too, and I can do anything, anything and anything,

122
00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:06,080
Speaker 1: And that whole idea of UH embracing more of those

123
00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:11,920
Speaker 1: tomboy characteristics were powerful younger girls. Well. Abbott writes that

124
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,320
Speaker 1: tomboy is um is an antidote to the idea that

125
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 1: femininity has to equal frailty, like it did with the

126
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,960
Speaker 1: fainting couches, couches couches and swooning and wooing and whatnot.

127
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 1: She says that the whole idea of tomboy is um

128
00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 1: called for sensible clothing, physical exercise, and a wholesome diet.

129
00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,800
Speaker 1: And these girls were stronger than the Victorian ideal of

130
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,200
Speaker 1: the fainting lady. And then with the turn of the

131
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:42,120
Speaker 1: twentieth century, we have things starting to happen like women voting,

132
00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,040
Speaker 1: women are smoking, women are drinking, they're driving. There these

133
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,560
Speaker 1: major social, political, and economic changes that are happening with

134
00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,680
Speaker 1: alongside of that the emergence of this new woman. We

135
00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,040
Speaker 1: can think about the flapper UH women who were not

136
00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:02,200
Speaker 1: scared to challenge those fem and in ideals and uh.

137
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,080
Speaker 1: And we also have the emergence of of tomboy heroes.

138
00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,079
Speaker 1: For instance, Amelia Earhart had a biography written about her

139
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,640
Speaker 1: called the Kansas Tomboy, and it was once featured as

140
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 1: a prize in Cracker Jacks. And you mentioned Joe March

141
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,280
Speaker 1: and Little Women as the pre eminent tomboy in literature,

142
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,319
Speaker 1: but there there's a lot of these these tomboy figures

143
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,360
Speaker 1: that pop up around the same time. Little Women, for instance,

144
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,200
Speaker 1: was written in eighteen sixty eight, and then you have

145
00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,560
Speaker 1: the Gypsy Britton series which starts out in eighteen sixty six.

146
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,920
Speaker 1: It features the tomboy character. What Katie Did comes out

147
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,080
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy two. Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm three. I

148
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,000
Speaker 1: remember reading the caddy Wood Lawn series in five, and

149
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,160
Speaker 1: then we have Little House on the Prairie, which starts

150
00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,040
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty two. So in a very short amount

151
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:57,680
Speaker 1: of time, the tomboy has become a central literary figure,

152
00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,800
Speaker 1: especially for these new narrative that we're targeted specifically to

153
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,840
Speaker 1: a female audience, and you start having things like popular

154
00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:11,160
Speaker 1: songs and movies that we're all focused around these female tomboys.

155
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,160
Speaker 1: Well it's funny, okay. So these things are all over literature.

156
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:19,920
Speaker 1: These things, these these archetypes, these themes are all over literature, movies, culture.

157
00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:24,840
Speaker 1: I feel like this is a very common, positive, wonderful

158
00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,920
Speaker 1: thing to have tomboys. But I still feel like there's

159
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:32,600
Speaker 1: this view of them in some literature that's that's negative. Well, yes,

160
00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 1: and that's one thing that Michelle Inhabbitt writes about in

161
00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,640
Speaker 1: the Unwritten History of Tomboy is Um. She talks about

162
00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,160
Speaker 1: how a lot of times the there's a transformation that

163
00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,360
Speaker 1: tends to take place with a tomboy from you know,

164
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,200
Speaker 1: she she gets a bath and all of a sudden

165
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,080
Speaker 1: she gets the boy kind of like and she's all

166
00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,960
Speaker 1: that I was just gonna say them, um, And a

167
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:59,080
Speaker 1: lot of times the descriptors are of her being wild

168
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,320
Speaker 1: and untamed, and she's chestnut head and has dirt on

169
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,040
Speaker 1: the cheeks, and you know, there's always we're never really

170
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:12,960
Speaker 1: completely comfortable with the tomboy remaining the tomboy. The tomboy

171
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,240
Speaker 1: has to change. Need I bring up Alie Sheety, Bring

172
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,359
Speaker 1: up Ali Sheety, my number club, my number one doppelganger,

173
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,960
Speaker 1: bring her up. Go ahead. No, I was just gonna

174
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,920
Speaker 1: say it's the same thing in the breakfast club. I

175
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,840
Speaker 1: got into this whole I well, I would I would

176
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,120
Speaker 1: say debate with my roommate, but he just looked at

177
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,199
Speaker 1: me blankly as I railed about why do we need

178
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,760
Speaker 1: to give Alie Sheety a makeover and a headband? Well,

179
00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,800
Speaker 1: we should do an episode on on magical makeovers, because

180
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,320
Speaker 1: that's an entire thing in and of itself. Um. And

181
00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,600
Speaker 1: the interesting thing too about tom boys is that they

182
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 1: generally have a pal with them who remains static for

183
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,280
Speaker 1: the most part, and that is the sissy boy. Yeah.

184
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,240
Speaker 1: This is also illustrated in a lot of literature. There's

185
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,160
Speaker 1: Harper Leaves to Kill a Mockingbird that we brought up,

186
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,560
Speaker 1: Scout and Dill Willie Cather's Tommy, the Unsentimental Tommy, and

187
00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,360
Speaker 1: Jay Carson mccullur's The Member of the Wedding, which featured

188
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,080
Speaker 1: Frankie and John. And so it is interesting to read

189
00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,120
Speaker 1: about this relationship because you know, oh gosh, girl and

190
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,560
Speaker 1: boy hanging out together unsupervised, But it was this whole

191
00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,600
Speaker 1: thing with like gender norms when they were switched. When

192
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,800
Speaker 1: it's a tom boy and a sissy boy hanging out

193
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,079
Speaker 1: pre puberty. They're just kids. It's all innocent. It doesn't

194
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:39,880
Speaker 1: seem to really raise cultural general suspicion. Um Abbott writes

195
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:44,280
Speaker 1: that this is foreshadowing contemporary queer interpretations of tom boys

196
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,240
Speaker 1: as proto lesbians and sissies as proto gay men. Their

197
00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,800
Speaker 1: friendship does not contain an erotic charge, so like everybody's like, well,

198
00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,040
Speaker 1: they're different and weird, let them be friends. Yeah, And

199
00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,920
Speaker 1: it speaks so much to how we perceive of um

200
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,000
Speaker 1: gender at that early age, because tomboy, you know, a

201
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:10,040
Speaker 1: girl except taking on masculine characteristics is just a tomboy.

202
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,439
Speaker 1: That's no big deal. It's generally not tossed out as

203
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,280
Speaker 1: an insult. You might be a little bit uh, you know,

204
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,760
Speaker 1: a little bit of an outcast, but there's still plenty

205
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,839
Speaker 1: of people just like you now the sissy boy, though

206
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:26,000
Speaker 1: sissy obviously is an insult and um. Julia Grant, a researcher,

207
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:30,200
Speaker 1: also points out that the words cissy comes out of

208
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,839
Speaker 1: boy culture in the nineteenth century um and it was

209
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,080
Speaker 1: also used as a clinical term for sexual inversion. And

210
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,160
Speaker 1: all of this also is coinciding with the time when

211
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:47,920
Speaker 1: massive industrialization raises adults concerns over the loss of real men.

212
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,240
Speaker 1: Like when we were talking about in our summer camp podcast,

213
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,240
Speaker 1: the reason why summer camps wilderness camps uh began in

214
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,280
Speaker 1: the first place was to send boys out away from

215
00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,400
Speaker 1: their pampered city lives to make sure that they could

216
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,120
Speaker 1: still do things like chopping all those trees, right, And

217
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,840
Speaker 1: hence you now have the the sissy boy that everyone's

218
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,439
Speaker 1: concerned about because it's not okay for for boys to

219
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,800
Speaker 1: accept the more feminine traits. But one literary theme that

220
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:18,440
Speaker 1: comes up is the tomboy character working to masculine masculine

221
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,560
Speaker 1: eye there it is her sissy boy friend, but it

222
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,480
Speaker 1: doesn't work the other way around. So like you know

223
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,840
Speaker 1: this the sissy boys hanging out with a tomboy and

224
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 1: it rubs off on him and he's like, Oh, I'm

225
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,800
Speaker 1: gonna be a big strong man and marry a lady

226
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,960
Speaker 1: and we're all gonna be happy and everything. But it's

227
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,520
Speaker 1: I guess that's the maybe equivalent of the tomboy getting

228
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,240
Speaker 1: a bath and suddenly going to the prom. Yeah, yeah,

229
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,920
Speaker 1: because we wouldn't expect in these kind of rich generals,

230
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,880
Speaker 1: we wouldn't it would not be acceptable for a boy

231
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:53,640
Speaker 1: to pass along softness too. You know, a tougher girl,

232
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:58,280
Speaker 1: right unless she suddenly became interested in him in a

233
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,360
Speaker 1: likeli kind of way. Un when she started crushing on

234
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:02,840
Speaker 1: him and then she takes a bath and then they

235
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,400
Speaker 1: go to the bronx. Wait, wait, and then she takes

236
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,560
Speaker 1: a bath, puts on a headband and then they go

237
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,560
Speaker 1: that's where they from. But what about tom boys and

238
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,840
Speaker 1: sissy girls. Well, yeah, it's definitely not just for boys.

239
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,360
Speaker 1: And this was researchers Carrie Robinson and Kristin Davies. They

240
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,680
Speaker 1: said that the term sissy amplifies some characteristics that are

241
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,760
Speaker 1: perceived to be feminine and negative in both boys and girls.

242
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,920
Speaker 1: So for boys, as we talked about, it suggests homosexuality weakness.

243
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 1: For girls, however, it's associated with the type of undesirable femininity.

244
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 1: So you don't want to be called a sissy girl

245
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,280
Speaker 1: anymore than a boy wants to be called a sissy boy.

246
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,560
Speaker 1: And it's interesting they wrote about how the sissy girls

247
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,480
Speaker 1: desires and interests are in the relationship with the other

248
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,840
Speaker 1: girls and the women, so they are more interested in

249
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 1: pursuing those friendships with the tom boy because of adventure

250
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,400
Speaker 1: or bringing them out of their shell more or so

251
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:07,160
Speaker 1: then maybe crushing on Freddie Prince Jr. Now, these more

252
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,920
Speaker 1: negative views toward tomboy is um and that you know,

253
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 1: the attendant sissy boy or sissy girl have loosened in

254
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,200
Speaker 1: more recent times since it became, you know, part of

255
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,600
Speaker 1: our pop culture and part of just kind of an

256
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:30,120
Speaker 1: expected phase that a child might go through. UM. And

257
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,840
Speaker 1: Betsy Livonian Morgan at the University of Wisconsin in was

258
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 1: curious to see how there might be a generational shift

259
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,800
Speaker 1: in women's embrace of the term tomboy and whether or

260
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 1: not they engaged in tomboy like activities when they were kids.

261
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:54,160
Speaker 1: And so she talked to young female college students, their mothers,

262
00:16:54,280 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 1: and their grandmothers to do a generational comparison among tomboy

263
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,280
Speaker 1: attributes and behaviors. Yeah, I thought it was really interesting

264
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,520
Speaker 1: that the senior women were less likely to report having

265
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,560
Speaker 1: been a tomboy than the younger two generations. So as

266
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,160
Speaker 1: common as that whole theme was in literature, movies, culture

267
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 1: in general, etcetera, Um, they still were maybe applying prejudices

268
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,560
Speaker 1: to the term. And thought it was still that whole

269
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,240
Speaker 1: you know, that whole stereotype of the dirty girl or woman. UM.

270
00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,479
Speaker 1: But Morgan found out that tomboy is um does in

271
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,280
Speaker 1: fact appear to be a normal part of most women's

272
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:37,520
Speaker 1: child's childhoods. Sixty percent of the people that she surveyed

273
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,600
Speaker 1: over the three generations reported being tomboys during their childhood,

274
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,919
Speaker 1: and the average age that they reported starting to be

275
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,399
Speaker 1: a tomboy was five point eight years old, and the

276
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,680
Speaker 1: average age reported for ceasing the behavior growing up becoming

277
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,680
Speaker 1: a lady taking that bath and putting that head band

278
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:59,119
Speaker 1: on was twelve point six. Uh. Yeah, And and of

279
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,240
Speaker 1: course that's age that puberty tends to kick in. And

280
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,560
Speaker 1: I find that kind of said that we that we

281
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,880
Speaker 1: pack up you know, our talka trucks and put away

282
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,840
Speaker 1: our overalls and such. Once we start it's it's at

283
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,160
Speaker 1: the age when we start paying more attention to other

284
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:23,480
Speaker 1: people's perceptions of us. Obviously, uh, you know, sexual attractions

285
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 1: start to kick in, and we we become more more

286
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,439
Speaker 1: self aware of what we are presenting to Yeah, I

287
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,120
Speaker 1: mean nobody, I mean think of us. Now. We might

288
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,520
Speaker 1: not care what we appeared to be to other people.

289
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,840
Speaker 1: But when you're a thirteen year old and you're hitting puberty,

290
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,840
Speaker 1: and you're nervous and you're awkward and oh god, I

291
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:45,280
Speaker 1: just want people to like me, and I just want

292
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 1: that person over there to to like me and have

293
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 1: a crush on me. You do you pay attention more

294
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,760
Speaker 1: to like? Okay, well, what what do I have to

295
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,960
Speaker 1: do to not be weird? You gotta fit in, oh man.

296
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,399
Speaker 1: But there are so many upsides to tomboy is um

297
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 1: um And again, like like you mentioned it. In every

298
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 1: study that we found, a majority of the people that

299
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,880
Speaker 1: they talked to at some point said, yeah, I went

300
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 1: through some kind of tomboyish face. And even though this

301
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 1: is a little dated, according to in nineteen seventy study,

302
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 1: girls who performed tomboyish behavior has had a larger repertoire

303
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,920
Speaker 1: of activities and less gender bound preferences for the future,

304
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 1: understandably because I'm challenging those scripts from a young age,

305
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 1: so it seems normal to just do whatever. And according

306
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 1: to one studies, similarly, self described tomboys tend to embrace

307
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 1: boys and girls activities rather than they don't reject one

308
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:46,120
Speaker 1: or the other. They tend to blend it together and um.

309
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 1: More contemporary studies have looked a little bit deeper into

310
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:54,199
Speaker 1: the gender dynamics of tomboyism, whether it is related to

311
00:19:55,080 --> 00:20:00,040
Speaker 1: um adult homosexuality or androgeny down the road and and

312
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 1: how all of that plays. And it makes sense that

313
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,679
Speaker 1: we are taking a deeper look at the these early

314
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 1: childhood formative self labeling like you know, playing, you know,

315
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,679
Speaker 1: doing tomboyish types of things, and how it relates to

316
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 1: our gender identity down the road. Um, because we are

317
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 1: now more accepting of the fact that, uh, that we

318
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 1: we don't live in just like a binary system of

319
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,360
Speaker 1: you know, masculine feminine, male female blah blah blah, there

320
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 1: is room for for much more fluidity and scholars have

321
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 1: understandably looked into how the how tomboy might play into that.

322
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: For instance, there in two thousand eleven, there is a

323
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,880
Speaker 1: study publish in the Journal of Lesbian Studies called tomboy

324
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 1: as Protective identity, and they wanted to look at three

325
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 1: different components of how tomboy is a gendered social identity

326
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,159
Speaker 1: that can offer temporary detections to women and girls in

327
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 1: terms of, for instance, excusing masculine typed behavior and girls

328
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: and women because it is much more acceptable for girls

329
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 1: too to be a little more rough and tumble. Um.

330
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 1: It can also provide protection for lesbian girls and women

331
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,119
Speaker 1: who prefer not to divulge their sexual orientation, and this

332
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 1: is also pretty compelling. The tomboy identity can gain women

333
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: limited privileges to spaces for which masculinity is an unspoken requirement,

334
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,199
Speaker 1: and that was something that came up in another study

335
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: we found that was interviewing women who were pretty intense

336
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 1: tomboys when they were kids, and that came up a

337
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: lot in terms of saying, no, like calling myself a tomboy.

338
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 1: Being a tomboy gave me more access to It broadened

339
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: my world, allow me to do things I normally wouldn't

340
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: be able to do. Yeah. Well, um, Robinson and Davies

341
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: talked to a lot of women about, you know, their

342
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 1: past and what it was like being a tomboy, and

343
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: I did think it was interesting, Uh, just the different

344
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: kind of perceptions that people could have of tomboys and

345
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: how it could bring such shame to a child if

346
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,479
Speaker 1: that was outside of what their parents considered to be normal.

347
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,679
Speaker 1: For instance, Um, one woman was saying that as a child,

348
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: she you know, goes into the toy store and wants

349
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: to buy this toy gun, and her mom was totally

350
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: okay with it, was like, yeah, whatever you want it,

351
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: that's fine. But it was the shopkeeper who said, well,

352
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: that's not a girl's toy, and so she had this

353
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: That was the first time she had been shamed about

354
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: wanting a different type of toy than was normal for girls,

355
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: and so she just felt like she had that feeling

356
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: attached to tomboy is um from then on out. Yeah,

357
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 1: And even though these days in we are becoming more

358
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 1: aware and more accepting of children who might from a

359
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: very early age begin to identify self identify as transgender

360
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 1: and not feel okay in the body that they were

361
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 1: born in and want to, uh, you know, cross those

362
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: lines in those kinds of ways. But I think, especially

363
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: because we're talking about children, we still have a difficult time.

364
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: There's still something about tomboyish behavior that you know, still

365
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: challenges those old scripts that stick around, and people almost

366
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: get mad at the parents sometimes for like making or

367
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,439
Speaker 1: letting your child do something. And I mean not to

368
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 1: get all TMZ up in here, but like Shiloh Jolie Pitt,

369
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: for instance, cute cute kid prefers to wear more masculine

370
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: clothes and a masculine haircut, and I mean, people freak

371
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: out like what do you This is why kids are

372
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 1: weird nowadays, Like what are you doing to that child? Well,

373
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: and it's like the the the J Crew image in

374
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 1: the magazine of the kid having the boy having his

375
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: nails painted pink by his mom? How would you do that?

376
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: And that that is the thing I think that all

377
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: of these studies, in the research on tom Boys, I've

378
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,959
Speaker 1: only demonstrated that a it is perfectly normal and healthy

379
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: to allow kids. I mean this has been a very

380
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: like girl focused conversation obviously since we're talking about tom Boys,

381
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: but it is very healthy to to allow kids to

382
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: explore and to break those those barriers. I mean, I

383
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: have excellent memories of being a kid playing outside and

384
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: climbing trees and playing in the sandbox with boys and everything,

385
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: playing with my monster trucks. My mom even bought me

386
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: like a like a sports coop one of those yellow

387
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: plastic cars. I had the handles that you turned it with. Yeah,

388
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't brave enough to ride it down our steep driveway.

389
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: That's good probably, but I would drive it around sure. Yeah. No,

390
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: it's it's great too to give children the option to

391
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 1: just be themselves. Yeah, and just one last etymological fact.

392
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: Before tomboy became the accepted term for these rough and

393
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: tumble girls, tom boys were called Hoyden's, the term for

394
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: boisterous girls. So well that fell out of fashion, didn't it,

395
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: Considering I've never heard of it, Yeah, I think hoyden

396
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: does not have quite the ring to it, even though

397
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: things do a little strange when you think about tom

398
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: being slang for prostitute, evolved, evolved, indeed, now I just

399
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: think of freckles and overalls. So tom boys out there,

400
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 1: write us your letters, please, running hear all of your stories.

401
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: Mom's stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can

402
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: send them, or you can also message this on Facebook.

403
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: And now we've got a couple of listener letters to

404
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: share with you. Yeah, I have one from Brook. This

405
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: is about sweaty Jim creepers Kristen. She says, I managed

406
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: to Jim for about four years just outside of Louisville, Kentucky,

407
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: and encountered a wide variety of awkward interactions between gym members,

408
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: including lots of pickup attempts, adulterous sex affairs in the

409
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 1: tanning beds, and jealous spouses storming in to catch their

410
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: significant others quote unquote training with the mistress. The gym

411
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: is a and this isn't all caps scandalous, scandalous place.

412
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: I found that the only time I'm comfortable working out

413
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: in a gym anymore is in the middle of the

414
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: night when there is basically nobody around. Jeez, Brooke, that

415
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: sounds like a scary Jim. Indeed, Well, I've got one

416
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: here from Nari, and it's not about Jim's. It is

417
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: actually about our pro Laps podcast. But listen up, folks,

418
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: it's good news. She says. I'm twenty seven and I've

419
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: never been pregnant, So when I felt a lot of

420
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 1: pressure and put some pain in the girly parts, it

421
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: was definitely a little weird. This was just several weeks

422
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: after I listened to the pro Laps podcast, so I

423
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: thought I might be imagining things like a total hypochondriac

424
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: just because But because of you two, I knew how

425
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: to do this self examination. Because I'm familiar with my anatomy.

426
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: I realized that my serve BIXID dropped at least half

427
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: an inch, and I went straight to my guyn of collegist,

428
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: who was really glad. I caught it at such an

429
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: early stage. The Kegle exercises, which I also know the

430
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 1: details about because of your podcasts have put everything back

431
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: to where it should be. So long as I keep

432
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: doing them, I am so grateful to you. See enough

433
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: people were so grossed out about the prolaps podcast. But

434
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: you know what, the more you know, do do do do?

435
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: The more you know that you know, and the more

436
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: you know, that's great. I'm glad we could help. Yeah,

437
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: that made me very happy to hear. And if you

438
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: have any good news to share with us, you know

439
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: our address. It's mom Stuff at Discovery dot com. You

440
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 1: can also find us on Facebook. Like us while you're

441
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 1: at it, follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.

442
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: You can also follow us on Tumbler at stuff Mo'm

443
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: never told you dot tumbler dot com. And if you'd

444
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: like to get smarter this week, you should head over

445
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: to our website it's how stuff works dot com for

446
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Does it

447
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com s