1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 2: You might have noticed that lately Mark Zuckerberg has been 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: going through a bit of a rebrand. The Meta CEO 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 2: has been sporting a new look, gold chains, grown out hair, 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 2: and custom black T shirts with Greek and Latin phrases. 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: He's appeared on so called Manisphere podcasts hosted by MAGA 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: friendly comedians like Theo Vonn and Joe Rogan. 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: Just I think a lot of a corporate world is 9 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: like pretty culturally neutered, And. 10 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 2: I just think that Suckerberg on rogan Show back in January, 11 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: talking about martial arts, bow hunting and what he sees 12 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,639 Speaker 2: as corporate America's backlash to masculinity, the. 13 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: Kind of masculine energy I think is good. Yeah, obviously, 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: you know society has plenty of that, but I think 15 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: corporate culture was really like trying to get away from it. 16 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg's newly conservative talking points. 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: I think having a culture that celebrates the aggression a 18 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: bit more has its own merits that are really positive. 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 2: And embrace of MAGA has led to changes at Meta too. 20 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: Since January, Meta has added Ultimate Fighting Championship CEO and 21 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 2: prominent Trump ally Dana White, to its board of directors. 22 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: It's also rolled back diversity efforts, weakend hate speech policies, 23 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 2: disbanded its civil rights team, and eliminated its outside fact 24 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: checking system. For outside observers, it's felt like a dramatic shift, 25 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: and according to Bloomberg Meta reporter Riley Griffin, it's felt 26 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: that way for some people inside Meta too. Zuckerberg declined 27 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: to be interviewed for the story, but Riley and our 28 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: colleague Bloomberg reporter Kurt Wagner have spoken to more than 29 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 2: thirty current and former Meta employeesout Zuckerberg's changing approach to politics, 30 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: plus a dozen government officials who engaged with Meta during 31 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: three presidential administrations. Many of their sources asked for anonymity 32 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: out of fear of retribution. Riley and Kurt learned that 33 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 2: these tensions came to a head at an internal meeting 34 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: of Meta's senior leadership in January. 35 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 3: Some of these senior leaders were frustrated. 36 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg faced questions about those policy changes and exactly what 37 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: he meant when he spoke about masculine energy on Joe 38 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: Rogan's podcast. 39 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 3: He acknowledged that maybe masculine was not the right use 40 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 3: of words but he said that corporate culture had become 41 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 3: less aggressive and should get a little bit more aggressive 42 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 3: and competitive. And as for the other questions about content, 43 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 3: policy changes and fact checking, he was unapologetic. He didn't 44 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 3: want to relitigate these decisions, and from everyone we speak 45 00:02:54,680 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 3: to that remains true. 46 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 2: I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from 47 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 2: Bloomberg News Today. On the show the political evolution of 48 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg, what he hopes to gain from getting closer 49 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 2: to Trump, what he has to show for it, and 50 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 2: how his MAGA leanings are already changing meta. Bloomberg's Riley 51 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: Griffin says that to understand Mark Zuckerberg's shift to the right, 52 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: you have to go back nearly two decades to the 53 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 2: Obama administration. 54 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 3: He and Obama would have dinners, they took calls with 55 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 3: each other. President Obama even participated in a Facebook town hall. 56 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 3: There was a light touch approach to technology, a lot 57 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 3: of optimism and very little regulation, and in the wake 58 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 3: of the twenty sixteen election, all that changed. 59 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: Facebook was thrust into the center of a global scandal 60 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 2: around the role the social network played in spreading political 61 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 2: misinformation and how it may have influenced the outcome of 62 00:03:59,280 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: the election. 63 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 3: In the immediate aftermath of the election, we saw Zuckerberg 64 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 3: experience shock and confusion around the outcome. He at the 65 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 3: time said that it was a crazy, quote unquote idea 66 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 3: that misinformation had influenced the election outcome. But we also 67 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 3: start to see the company make amends, if you will. 68 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 3: They shore up fact checking efforts, they focus on election integrity. 69 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 3: He also actually went on a nationwide tour he was 70 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 3: trying to understand the electorate. So it was a period 71 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 3: of processing but also the beginning of immense backlash for 72 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 3: a company that had until this time had a pretty 73 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: productive relationship to Washington and especially the Democratic Party. 74 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg appeared before Congress and said his company hadn't done 75 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 2: enough to prevent its platform from being used for harm. 76 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 4: And that goes for fake news, for foreign interference in elections, 77 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 4: and hate speech, as well as developers and data privacy. 78 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 4: We didn't take a broad enough view of our responsibility 79 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 4: and that was a big mistake, and it was my 80 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 4: mistake and I'm sorry. 81 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, his company tried to build inroads with the new administration. 82 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 2: Joel Kaplan, a former GOP strategist who's now Meta's chief 83 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 2: Global affairs officer was focused on ensuring Zuckerberg had connections 84 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 2: in Trump's orbit. Joel Kaplan had been discussing with Mark 85 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg the benefits of a Republican administration that was business 86 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: friendly and a conservative Supreme Court, and this strategy, folks 87 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: inside the company told me, came to be known as 88 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 2: the Clarence Thomas strategy. The idea here being that any 89 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: major existential threat to Facebook would ultimately rise to the 90 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 2: Supreme Court, and so the company didn't want to alienate 91 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 2: conservative justices who would be essentially making those key decisions. 92 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: But the criticism was still unrelenting, and it came from 93 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: all Sidesberg's apology tour didn't persuade Democrats that he could 94 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: be trusted to lead a social media empire that had 95 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 2: grown to have billions of users, and the content moderation 96 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 2: efforts he put in place after the twenty sixteen election 97 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 2: angered Trump and his allies, who increasingly complained about what 98 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: they saw as an anti conservative bias on Facebook. Then 99 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 2: came the pandemic. 100 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 3: I was actually a COVID reporter at the time, and 101 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 3: remember those early days when we were writing a lot 102 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 3: about misinformation, conspiracy, theories were really proliferating on the platform. 103 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 2: This was all happening in the months leading up to 104 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 2: the twenty twenty election, as unfounded concerns about election integrity 105 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 2: were swirling online. The Stop the Steel movement was already 106 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 2: cropping up, and the Biden campaign was really frustrated that 107 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: they felt Facebook wasn't taking that seriously. After Biden one, 108 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 2: the misinformation and division on Facebook just picked up steep. 109 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 3: And ultimately we saw January sixth emerge. 110 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: And within twenty four hours of rioters storming the capital, 111 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 2: Facebook took action. 112 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 5: For the first time ever. Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram suspended 113 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 5: President Trump's Twitter accounts yesterday and now Mark Zuckerberg is 114 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 5: staying in a post that quote, we believe the risks 115 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 5: of allowing the president to continue to use our service 116 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 5: during this period are simply too great. 117 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 2: Facebook felt it was taking a strong approach to countering 118 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 2: misinformation around the election and also around COVID and vaccines, 119 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: but it wasn't enough for Democrats. 120 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 3: Congressional probes ultimately revealed correspondence between the White House and 121 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 3: then Facebook that show there was a lot of skepticism 122 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 3: from the White House as to how effective that was 123 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 3: and whether they were being run around. In one email 124 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 3: from a White House staffer, the subject line was titled, 125 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 3: you are hiding the ball and speaking with a lot 126 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 3: of folks in Washington, including in the Biden administration, I've 127 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 3: learned that President Biden privately with his aides would call 128 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 3: Zuckerberg little towerp and he also used a term that 129 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 3: replaced the Z in Zuckerberg with an F. 130 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: A spokesperson for Biden's office declined to comment for the story. 131 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: Riley says these long simmering tensions reached a boiling point 132 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: in July of twenty twenty one. 133 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 3: What happened on that Friday afternoon as President Biden was 134 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 3: walking to board his helicopter to Camp David Was, a 135 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 3: reporter shouted a question and asked about mis information, and Biden, 136 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 3: you know, walked towards the reporter. 137 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 6: And said, we're killing people. 138 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 4: I mean it really, well, Look. 139 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: The only pandemic we have is among the unvaccinator and 140 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: that's and they're killing people. 141 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 3: They're killing people, And that kind of comment is not 142 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 3: a normal thing for a president to allege a major 143 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 3: US company is doing, but that was how the president felt. 144 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 3: It was a moment of candor and having that out 145 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 3: in the open was a big pr crisis for the company. 146 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 3: Many people pulled all nighters. They were in touch with 147 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 3: the White House. We've reviewed messages between Mark Zuckerberg and 148 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 3: Cheryl Sandberg and others at the company. They felt that 149 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 3: it was disingenuous, It didn't encompass the kind of work 150 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 3: that they'd been doing on COVID. It was one of 151 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 3: those moments where this tension really spilled into the public 152 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 3: and showed how bad things had gotten between the administration 153 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: and the company during this time. Did that one moment 154 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 3: help lead us to Zuckerberg's magnification today? My reporting suggests so. 155 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 3: It's an important moment. It's a pivotal moment, but it's 156 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 3: one of many moments you can look to that I 157 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 3: think create a snowball effect. According to the people we've 158 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 3: spoken with, have increasingly pushed Mark Zuckerberg in this direction. 159 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 2: By twenty twenty four, with Trump's third campaign in full swing, 160 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg dropped a big hint about his new political allegiances. 161 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: In July of that year, days after Trump survived an 162 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 2: assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania, Zuckerberg spoke with Bloomberg's Emily. 163 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 6: Chang, Yeah, I mean seeing Donald Trumpet get up after 164 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 6: getting shot in the face and pump his fist in 165 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 6: the air with the American flag is one of the 166 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 6: most badass things I've ever seen in my life. 167 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 2: After the break, Zuckerberg doubles down. Since Donald Trump's reelection, 168 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Meta reporter Riley Griffin says Mark Zuckerberg has put 169 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 2: a lot of effort into getting on the administration's good side. 170 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 2: Made a one million dollar donation to the Inauguration Fund. 171 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 2: The night Trump was sworn in, Zuckerberg co hosted a 172 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: black tie reception in the president's honor. In March, he 173 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 2: acquired a twenty three million dollar mansion steps away from 174 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: the Vice president's residence, and Riley says flight records for 175 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg's private jet show he's been making monthly trips to Washington. 176 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: Meta has said Zuckerberg has traveled to Washington to discuss 177 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 2: AI and American technology leadership, and Zuckerberg has said that 178 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 2: any American company should try to have a productive relationship 179 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 2: with whoever is running the government. Why is Zuckerberg doing 180 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: all this? Why align with Trump? What's in it for him? 181 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 3: This is the question we've posed to people for months now. 182 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 3: We wanted to understand that too, because Mark Zuckerberg is 183 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 3: a man who had supported diversity initiatives, who'd supported immigration reform, 184 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 3: election integrity. What was happening here in terms of in 185 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 3: about face. What we've learned learned from the dozens of 186 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 3: people we've spoken with is that Mark Zuckerberg is not 187 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 3: a man with one specific political ideology or very specific 188 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 3: values when it comes to politics or left or right. 189 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 3: What's emerged instead, Sarah is a portrait of a man 190 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 3: who is focused on self preservation and dominance and ensuring 191 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 3: his company is in the best position possible. 192 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 2: And there was potentially another influence at play from another 193 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: tech ceo who'd recently undergone a major political makeover. 194 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 3: Through our reporting and speaking with more than fifty people, 195 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 3: we've heard a term quite often, and this is Elon envy. 196 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 2: Many sources inside of Meta have described a kind of 197 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: envy that Mark Zuckerberg had for Elon Musk, feeling that 198 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 2: he had not faced the same kind of political scrutiny 199 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 2: that he was subject to, Feeling that he was able 200 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 2: to layoff employees from X without real consequence. Elon was 201 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 2: moving fast and breaking things and not suffering the same 202 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 2: kind of consequences that Mark Zuckerberg was feeling. And this 203 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 2: is when we see Zuckerberg move away from policies that 204 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 2: have infuriated Trump for years, like Meta's fact checking program. 205 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 2: Like we mentioned, Meta also broke up its civil rights 206 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 2: team and rolled back hate speech policies. 207 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 3: They rolled back diversity programs at Meta, also at the 208 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 3: Chan Zuckerberg initiative. They also reached a settlement, a twenty 209 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 3: five million dollar settlement with Trump over the removal and 210 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 3: suspension of him from the platforms in the wake of 211 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 3: January sixth. A lot of that money is going to 212 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 3: Trump's library. But I think the question stands do these 213 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 3: moves put him in the best position possible? 214 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: And that's a really good question, Rilly, and it's one 215 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 2: that I think a lot of people are wondering too, Like, 216 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 2: if he's making this big shift, what does he have 217 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 2: to show for it? 218 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 3: I would say, speaking with folks in the MAGA movement, 219 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: including one Trump advisor, there's still a lot of distrust 220 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 3: from MAGA, from people who have seen different postures towards 221 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: Trump over the years created a lot of distrust for 222 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 3: Mark Zuckerberg, and I think some people are still holding 223 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 3: on to that. Trump as well, has over the years 224 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 3: suggested Mark Zuckerberg is a bit two faced. He called 225 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 3: him an ass kisser many a time. 226 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: Riley says that so far from a policy perspective, there 227 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: isn't much evidence any of this is working out to 228 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg's advantage, at least not yet. Take Trump's stance on TikTok, 229 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 2: for instance, TikTok is a key competitor to Meta. 230 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 3: There have been questions about whether it would be allowed 231 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 3: to remain in the United States, so on that ground, 232 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 3: we haven't necessarily seen him act in a way that 233 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 3: would benefit Meta. 234 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: Meta is also currently facing an antitrust suit from the 235 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 2: Federal Trade Commission, which threatens to break up Zuckerberg's one 236 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: point six trillion dollar business by forcing him to split 237 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 2: off Instagram and WhatsApp. Mark Zuckerberg, in the weeks before 238 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 2: that trial lobbied essentially both the President, the administration, and 239 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 2: the FTC chair himself to try to reach a settlement 240 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 2: before it went to trial. 241 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 3: That didn't work. We saw Mark Zuckerberg take the stand 242 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 3: in April, and we will hopefully in coming weeks get 243 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: a better sense of the outcome, but that went despite 244 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 3: Mark Zuckerberg's please. 245 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 2: Even if Suckerberg's realignment hasn't won him political favors, Riley 246 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 2: says it has succeeded in opening up a channel to 247 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 2: the president. 248 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 3: This is something he'd lost over the Biden years and 249 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 3: has now regained. For example, Mark Zuckerberg met with Vice 250 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 3: President j d Vance in advance of an AI summit 251 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 3: in Paris, and when Jade Vance spoke before European leaders, 252 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 3: he really hammered home a lot of the ideas that 253 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 3: Mark Zuckerberg had presented to him just days prior. So 254 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 3: that's the kind of soft influence we're tracking, a White 255 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 3: House spokesperson said in an email. The Trump quote takes 256 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 3: meetings with many CEOs who are eager to participate in 257 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 3: the Trump economy. In the meantime, Riley says Meta's new 258 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 3: policies are having a clear impact on its platforms. I've 259 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 3: spoken with several activist groups and groups that represent transfolk women, 260 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 3: the LGBTQ community, more broadly, Jewish people, and again and again, 261 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 3: folks are trying to assess whether hate speech is on 262 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 3: the rise. One organization said they anticipate millions more, hundreds 263 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 3: of millions more pieces of content that would have otherwise 264 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 3: been removed to now remain on the platform due to 265 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 3: these policy shifts. 266 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 2: Even Meta's own independent oversight board, which was created to 267 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: weigh in on complicated content moderation decisions, was concerned by 268 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: how quickly the changes were made and announced. In late April, 269 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 2: it advised the company to assess and report on the 270 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 2: potential harm of the new policies. Meta said it would 271 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 2: respond to the recommendation within sixty days. In a statement 272 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 2: to Bloomberg, Meta said, quote, while we will still address 273 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 2: content that violates our policies, we are focused on reducing 274 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: mistakes and over enforcement of our rules unquote. 275 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 3: Is this how it always works. 276 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 2: When political tides turn that business leaders try to cozy 277 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 2: up to whoever they think is best positioned to help 278 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 2: their companies, whatever the stated values of that politician. What's 279 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:36,719 Speaker 2: different about Trump? 280 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 3: I think what's notable about Trump, and really what makes 281 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,239 Speaker 3: him different from Biden before him, is a willingness to 282 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 3: negotiate with people he formerly saw as an enemy. This 283 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 3: is a president who's been quite aggressive and on the 284 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 3: attack against Zuckerberg in the past, and now we see 285 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 3: a willingness to meet with him in mar A Lago 286 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 3: and in the West Wing. And so I think that 287 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 3: dealmaking that detaches itself from history is a part of 288 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 3: what makes Trump so notable. But we find that Zuckerberg 289 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 3: offers a pretty revealing test case for that kind of 290 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 3: negotiation strategy. This is a CEO who has gone well 291 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 3: beyond many of his peers in making overtures and comments 292 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,239 Speaker 3: in support of the President, calling him badass, you know, 293 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 3: on tape with us. So I think we still have 294 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 3: to wait and see what this looks like. 295 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 2: While this may all serve Zuckerberg and Meta while Trump's 296 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 2: in office, it raises serious questions about his longer term strategy. 297 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 3: In speaking with people familiar with the company and its 298 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 3: deliberations around It's Trump's strategy, we've learned that Meta is 299 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 3: working on a plan to try to gain Democrats' support 300 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 3: in the case that they win power in Washington, be 301 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 3: it a new administration or even in congressional races that 302 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 3: are upcoming. 303 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 2: But Riley says, given Zuckerberg's history, the Democratic Party might 304 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 2: be harder to win over if he tries to pivot 305 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 2: himself and his company again. Someday. 306 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 3: This is a guy who is always evolving and adapting 307 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 3: to the situation at hand, and I think we've found 308 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 3: it's no different when it comes to politics. 309 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. 310 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 2: To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access 311 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 2: to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg 312 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: dot com slash podcast offer. If you like this episode, 313 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 2: make sure to follow and review The Big Take wherever 314 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show. 315 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.