1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to Crash Course, the podcast about business, political, and 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: social disruption and what we can learn from it. I'm 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: Tim O'Brien. Today's Crash Course. Black voters versus the twenty 4 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: twenty four election. When last we visited, we talked about 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: the central role Latina voters could play in the twenty 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: twenty four election. The same, of course, is true of 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: the black community. Joe Biden secured a victory in the 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: Democratic primary in twenty twenty after Representative Jim Clyburn through 9 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: his support and that of his black constituents in South 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: Carolina behind the candidate. Biden went on to take the 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: presidency away from Donald Trump, and the pair now seems 12 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: headed for a rematch. Black voters and young black voters 13 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: in particular, appear to be much less enthusiastic about Biden 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: these days. They're the most unenthusiastic they've been about a 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: Democratic president in decades. Multiple polls suggest as much. Some 16 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: of this is due to the Democratic Party deploying policy 17 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: drive bys during elections. Promises made are too frequently unkept. 18 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: Black voters, who represent more than twelve percent of total 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: eligible voters in the US, have come to expect it 20 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: Republicans have also intentionally thrown roadblocks in front of efforts 21 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: to mobilize the full power of the black vote. Think 22 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: jerry mandering, voter id laws, and the like. Most local 23 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: legislatures won't be addressing it anytime soon, and the Supreme 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: Court has empowered states to do as they please around 25 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: voting access. Joining us today is Nia Malika Henderson, a 26 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: political columnist for Bloomberg Opinion and a savant when it 27 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: comes to decoding the forces royaling the American political landscape. 28 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: That was Nia laughing at my description of her, because 29 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: she just doesn't apparently know the highest theme in which 30 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: I hold her. 31 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 2: This care will too. 32 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: By the end of this conversation, because she's a smarty Henia. 33 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 3: Hey there, I love that inagury deduction, and I've gotta 34 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 3: I'm gonna let my mom hear this. 35 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: I'll record it for her. Yeah, So let's just jump 36 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: into it, you know, in a very broad way. What's 37 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: at stake for black voters in this election. 38 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 3: Well, listen, I think if you think about the state 39 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 3: in which African Americans were living under a Trump presidency, 40 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: the sort of psychic toll, the emotional toll of living 41 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 3: in a country led by someone who really engages in 42 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 3: the kind of bigotry and race bating that he engaged in, 43 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 3: you know, in the lead up to his election, where 44 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 3: he was talking about Barack Obama and the whole Birtherism thing, 45 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 3: and just the rhetoric he employed throughout his presidency, calling 46 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 3: African nations shithold countries, and any number of incidents that 47 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 3: just showed, I think, to African Americans and listen to 48 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: other groups as well, sort of gave a feeling that 49 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 3: Black Americans were other that he was perfectly fine using 50 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 3: race and blackness as a kind of wedge issue. So 51 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 3: that's part of the conversation that I think African Americans 52 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 3: are having, and part of the conversations with somebody like 53 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 3: Jim Kleibern is having too, is he goes around to 54 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 3: African American communities, particularly in South Carolina, and talks to 55 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 3: them about white supremacy, about what it was like to 56 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 3: live in a country that was led by Donald Trump. 57 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 3: So that's sort of the sort of emotional tool that 58 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 3: I think was at play in Trump's administration and is 59 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 3: part of what I think people are calculating as they 60 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 3: think about who they're going to vote for moving forward. 61 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: Don't forget. Also, when he was calling majority black countries shitholes, 62 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: he was also waking up new names for countries in Africa, 63 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: like Nambia, which doesn't exist right, right, And he's never 64 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: been very good at like finding things on maps, but yeah, 65 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: but he was inventing, you know, African country's whole cloth, 66 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: which was yes, I don't think any press has done that. 67 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 3: I think that's right. And so you think about the 68 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 3: assaults on democracy, the assaults on freedom, whether it's the 69 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 3: literal assault on democracy that we saw on January sixth, 70 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: and just the continued undermining of institutions, and then issues 71 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 3: like abortion, which get it sort of freedom and liberty. 72 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 3: And so if you think about the way in which Biden, 73 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 3: some of his surrogates, somebody like Vice President Harris, is 74 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 3: trying to frame these issues to African American voters, it 75 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 3: is about white supremacy. It is about the economy, it 76 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 3: is about freedom, It is about this idea of do 77 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 3: you want to return to the days of living in 78 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 3: a country led by such an erratic And some people 79 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 3: would obviously say racist president. 80 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: Well, and we'll get into some of those issues, but 81 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: I am perplexed given that Trump is an overtly hostile 82 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: person to people of color, right, and he doesn't really 83 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: hide it, and he's also enabled other people to be 84 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: openly hostile. Our civic dialogue has degraded. It's translated into 85 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 1: pow to see positions that I don't think are in 86 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: the interests of communities of color. And yet all of 87 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: the kind of polling around turnout suggests that a lot 88 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: of black voters are thinking of just staying home, that 89 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: they're not going to turn out. So you would think 90 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: if Trump was that bleak of a prospect, that that 91 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: would translate into more enthusiasm for Biden. And there's quite 92 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: a bit. I think Iden got ninety two percent of 93 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: the black vote in twenty twenty, more or less, and 94 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: then Trump got eight percent, and it's still black voters 95 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: prefer the Democratic Party. I've got no doubt that Biden 96 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: will get a big majority of black voters again. But 97 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: it's really important, actually in swing states that black voters engage. 98 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: And there appears, I think, and I'm always a little 99 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: bit tentative with polls, right, but it appears that there's 100 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: this lack of enthusiasm, and I think that that could 101 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: actually have a destructive impact on the interests of black 102 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: voters if they don't turn out. So why is that, 103 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: Why is there lack of enthusiasm? 104 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 3: Well, listen, I think there was never a huge enthusiasm 105 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 3: for Biden, right, There was always an enthusiasm for kicking 106 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 3: Trump out of office. So we of course remember when 107 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 3: it was finally declared that there was a President Biden, 108 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 3: that he had won, there was dancing in the street, right. 109 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 3: I mean, it was like a dictator had fallen. People 110 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 3: were so kind of relieved to see him lose. And 111 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 3: so you think about the polls now, and I think 112 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 3: about Cornell Belcher, who's this great after American pollster. 113 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 2: I'm sure you're familiar with. 114 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 3: He is a polster, he does focus groups, but he's 115 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 3: also very mindful of the fact that the campaign has 116 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 3: just begun. Right. Campaigns are built to persuade voters, to 117 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 3: make them enthusiastic, to give them a binary choice, and 118 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 3: that is what's happening now. I talked to some folks 119 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 3: at the Biden campaign, and listen, they are very aware 120 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 3: of what the polls showed. 121 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: Now. 122 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 3: They're very aware of what you mentioned, which is that 123 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 3: historically it's been like sols to the polls. You know, 124 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 3: a couple of weeks before November, not a lot of 125 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 3: money put into GOTV efforts, And they're doing something very 126 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 3: differently this go around. They're putting a lot of money 127 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 3: in early and seeing those voters as voters they have 128 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: to persuade and mobilize, not just the voters who are 129 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 3: going to automatically show up. I will say this, I 130 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 3: do think that the polling and I hate to be 131 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 3: sort of a polling truther, but the polling has been 132 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 3: really off. 133 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 2: In terms of African American voters, and off for quite 134 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: a while. 135 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. Like, if you think about the lead up to 136 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 3: twenty twenty to twenty eighteen, there's all these like, oh 137 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 3: my gosh, Republicans are going to get twenty percent of 138 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 3: African American voters, and it just it hasn't really materialized. 139 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 3: I think there obviously has been a shift, very very minimally, 140 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 3: but it is not as much as the polls suggest. 141 00:07:55,840 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 3: But again, we talk about these swing states, places like Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, 142 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 3: those margins manager Georgia. Yeah, exactly all of this is 143 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 3: going to matter. But listen it's ramping up now. I'm 144 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 3: actually going to South Carolina in the lead up to 145 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,559 Speaker 3: the Democratic primary, where Biden, of course will win. Kamala 146 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 3: Harris will be there. She's going to an HBCU South 147 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 3: Carolina state in Orangeburg, and so it'll be interesting to 148 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 3: see what her message is to those voters in particular, right, 149 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 3: young educated African American voters who have lots of discontent 150 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 3: with Joe Biden. And again, they were never huge Joe 151 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: Biden fans, right, there were Obamocrats, right, There is no 152 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 3: parallel to that when it comes to Biden supporters. Older 153 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 3: members of the African American community love Biden. My mom 154 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 3: is one of those folks. She's eighty six, eighty five, 155 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 3: and she'll be pulling the lever for Joe Biden as 156 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 3: well all of her church friends. But then there is 157 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:02,599 Speaker 3: this other, younger, more working class population of African Americans 158 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 3: that have some you know, skepticism, and they're going to 159 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,359 Speaker 3: need to be convinced and mobilized. 160 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: And you know, you just invoked the secret weapon of 161 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: Barack Obama, right, which has not been activated yet by Democrats, 162 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: and you know, marching Barack Obama with his myriad gifts 163 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: as an orator and a truth teller and a very 164 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: unusually charismatic politician. In all those states, maybe he would 165 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: campaign with Taylor Swift, and you could just have like 166 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: this twin engine, like a jet engine of voter enthusiasm push. 167 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: So it'll be interesting to see how and when and 168 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: where Obama gets activated, because I can't imagine he won't be. 169 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: But I want to come back and even within the 170 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: flaw of the polls about the percentage of votes Republicans 171 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: might or might not get, that data point concerns me 172 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: less than turnout does. And I just want to turn 173 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: to this in a second, because I think of twenty sixteen, right, like, 174 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: obviously Obama turns out black voters like no candidate has 175 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: I think ever, at least since in the post World 176 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: War two era. And then in twenty sixteen, you know, 177 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: black voters did not really turn out for Hillary Clinton. 178 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: And you could pinpoint the states in which that created 179 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: tipping points Michigan, Wisconsin, et cetera, et cetera. I was 180 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: in both states in twenty twenty talking to black voters, 181 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: and one of the things that came up repeatedly in 182 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: conversations I had with them is you know, Hillary flew 183 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: in here at the last minute, like she didn't come 184 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: to Detroit until the last week of October or something 185 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: like that, and they all said, we just didn't feel 186 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: we felt taken for granted. And in fact, that's how 187 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: her campaign ruled. They thought they were going to flip Texas, 188 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 1: Georgia and Florida, and they didn't campaign in Michigan, Wisconsin, 189 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania. And I just you know, this is possibly 190 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: this election this year, the twenty twenty four election will 191 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 1: turn on a knife's edge in terms of pluralities, is 192 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: in a handful of states, and so I wonder less 193 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: about the total vote going to the Republicans and more 194 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: about just people showing up for Democrats. 195 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 3: I think it's a huge concern. Democrats obviously mindful of it. 196 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 3: And sort of add to that, you do have Republicans 197 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 3: campaigning for black. 198 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 2: Voters in a way that they haven't before. 199 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 3: I mean, some of it is sort of cynical, and 200 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 3: the ultimate goal is to have black voters stay home 201 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 3: not necessarily vote for Republican candidates, but you do have 202 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 3: some real efforts. I think it was Matt Gates, So 203 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 3: I hate to quote, but here I am said that, 204 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 3: you know, for every maybe college educated white person that 205 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 3: a Republican might lose, they would gain a jamal Or 206 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 3: I think you said. 207 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: Jose because he's such a sensitive person. 208 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, and this is true, right. I mean, there 209 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 3: is this resorting of the parties, right, and some of 210 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 3: this is along class lines and some of it is 211 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 3: along racial lines as well. Sort of the sorting, particularly 212 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 3: among Hispanics, is much more noticeable going from the Democratic 213 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 3: Party to the Republican Party. It isn't is noticeable yet 214 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 3: among African Americans, particularly African American working class men. But 215 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: that is what's going on. And to me, I mean 216 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 3: sort of the argument that you hear Donald Trump making 217 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 3: is one I think that is in some ways wrapped 218 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 3: up in his masculinity, right, in his strength. 219 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: He gave some speech recently where he was. 220 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 3: Like, you know, a country needs a strong man, and 221 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 3: I think he meant it in both ways, right, and 222 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 3: that does I think resonate with young men, particularly young 223 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 3: working class men, who have also been sort of told 224 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 3: that their masculinity is you know, under assault. That there's 225 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 3: sort of feminization. I mean, listen, if you watch ESPN, 226 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 3: there are all these commercials about this generation of men 227 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 3: having the lowest testosterone ever. I would know, but you know, 228 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 3: those are the kind of messages that I think could 229 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 3: resonate with any number of groups and lead either to 230 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 3: kind of low turnout among those groups who are Democrats, 231 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 3: or actually some of these groups that have traditionally been 232 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 3: voting for Democrats voting for Republicans, particularly Donald Trump, not 233 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 3: necessarily sort of down ballot, but just seeing in Donald 234 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 3: Trump somebody who they admire, the strength, the pretty wife, 235 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 3: the beautiful kids, whatever it is, and obviously a billionaire status, right, 236 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 3: I mean that is all. 237 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: Live in the dream exactly, dream, yeah, rolling like he 238 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: wants to jet like exactly. 239 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, I know you're a hip hop fan, tim, 240 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 3: and Donald Trump was hugely popular in hip hop in 241 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 3: the nineties and in two thousand, just as a symbol 242 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 3: of bling and success and sort of the lavish life. 243 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 3: And so some of that stuff still resonates. 244 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. Russell Simmons said to me once that he called 245 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: Trump the bling, bling white man. 246 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 247 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: And you know they were welcome at marl Lago and 248 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: they'd be in the steam room and Donald show up 249 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: with a tray of orange juice. In his red tie 250 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: and blue suit, even the steam room. That's not a 251 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: subject for our discussion today. Yeah, but you know, it 252 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: is interesting that that sector of the black community venerates them. 253 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: But I think it's because of celebrity and wealth. Right, 254 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: it's not really about politics, right, policy at all, But 255 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: it's this image, and I think that has a lot 256 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: of attraction with working class white voters too. 257 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 3: That's exactly right. I mean this kids to the personality, 258 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 3: the cult of personality built up around Donald Trump, which 259 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 3: has been so effective. You know, the idea that he's 260 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 3: a successful millionaire, a billionaire. Excuse me, he's not, even 261 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 3: though he probably is only just a millionaire. But listen, 262 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 3: you know this success of him and sort of the 263 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 3: lavishness and the gold toilets and the supermodel wife who 264 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 3: isn't really a supermodel, nor does she speak seven languages, 265 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 3: but never mind. 266 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: And she's an immigrant, by the way, which is point 267 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: out he married an immigrant. Yes, yes, and some of 268 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: them are nice people. But on this issue again of 269 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: turn out. You know, just in the statistics, black voters 270 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: about twelve percent of eligible voters in twenty twenty, they 271 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: maybe fourteen percent and twenty four white voters are about 272 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: sixty eight percent of eligible voters, but end up being 273 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: seventy five percent of the voters who cast balance. Those 274 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: numbers are always so fascinating to me because they speak 275 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: to people's sense of how their vote empowers them or not. 276 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: It sometimes pains me to see that the black community 277 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: doesn't have as much faith in the power of their 278 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: vote as clearly the white community does. I think we 279 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: know the reasons for some of those things, but it's 280 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: undoubtedly at work in this election too. 281 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 3: I think that's right. You think back to two thousand 282 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 3: and eight and all of the joy and pride among 283 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 3: African Americans that the country had elected a black man, 284 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 3: a black man named Barack who say Obama, And there 285 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 3: was a lot of hope, right. There was some just 286 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 3: silly hope about, you know, a post racial America, but 287 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 3: then there was real hope about conditions in black communities 288 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 3: being changed because of Obama being in office. And I 289 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 3: think you look around and that didn't really happen, right, 290 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 3: And even I think some of the discontent among say 291 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 3: thirty something black folks forty something black folks, there is 292 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 3: kind of looking back at Barack Obama with some disappointment, right, 293 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 3: that we put so much, African Americans will say into 294 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 3: having him in office, but what do we get in return? 295 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 2: Right? 296 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 3: And so then Hillary comes and obviously Trump gets in office, 297 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 3: and then Biden and there's obviously some discontent, specific discontent 298 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 3: right about promises not met, whether it's around voting rights 299 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 3: or student loans. So, you know, and now I think 300 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 3: a real sort of animating conversation for this group of voters, 301 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 3: young African Americans is what's going on with the Palestinians 302 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 3: and the idea. You know, Joe Biden has gone to 303 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 3: some events and there will be people and some of 304 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 3: these are African Americans who are standing upholding signs and 305 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 3: calling him genocide Joe. So this is a a real 306 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 3: kind of animating force and animating conversation that's going on, 307 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 3: and not in a good way for Joe Biden's re 308 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 3: election prospects among young African Americans. 309 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: On that note, I want to take a quick break 310 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: so we can hear from our sponsor, and then we 311 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: will come right back to this conversation. I'm back with 312 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: Nia Malika Henderson, a political columnist with Bloomberg Opinion. Nia, 313 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: we were just talking about black voters disappointment with Biden, 314 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: and I wanted to just dig into some of the 315 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: highlight policy issues, the things that are most important to 316 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: the black community, and from a policy perspective, the things 317 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: that are fueling some of their disappointment. Voting rights and 318 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: the enforcement of voting rights and the access to the 319 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: voting booth seems to me to be something well worth 320 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: focusing on in this But you can dissuade me if 321 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: it's not. 322 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 3: No, I think that's right. This is something that Joe 323 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 3: Biden campaigned on. This is something that people believed that 324 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 3: a needed to get done and could get done right, 325 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 3: particularly in the aftermath of George Floyd. Right, you remember 326 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 3: those sort of hidy days of the racial recogning and 327 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 3: this idea that the country and companies wanted to get 328 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 3: right in terms of race, and so what happened. 329 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 2: For police reform. 330 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 3: I think that's exactly right. And so there were conversations 331 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 3: around that. But one of the big hopes around that 332 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 3: was that there would be some sort of voting rights bill. 333 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 3: So there was one that went to senate, it past 334 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 3: the House and it failed, right, it failed. 335 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: And there was also the John L. 336 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 3: Lewis Voting yeah, there were two separate ones, right, and 337 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 3: ultimately failed because Democrats. Two Democrats in particular who I 338 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 3: don't think will be in the Senate going forward, Christen 339 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 3: Cinema and Joe Manchin. 340 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 2: They were too, they really democrats, right. 341 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, And so you know, there's an 342 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 3: idea that maybe they could scuttle the philibuster just for 343 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 3: this bill to pass, and it turns out that they 344 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 3: didn't want to do that. And of course we know 345 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 3: the philibuster has been used to scuttle lots of civil 346 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 3: rights legislation historically. That's sort of the point of it. Yes, 347 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 3: and so that history repeating itself. So sure, there's that 348 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 3: lack of movement on that. And listen, you're gonna hear 349 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 3: from Biden on this again, right, You're going to hear 350 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 3: from Kamala Harris on this again. I'm sure when there's 351 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 3: another anniversary of the Bloody Sunday in March, right, they'll 352 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 3: make a big deal about pushing for this and voting rights. 353 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 3: But the fact of the matter is it didn't get done. 354 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 3: Nothing really has been done on police reform. 355 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: Voting rights. Yeah, black community blame the Biden White House 356 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: for not getting legislation through a Senate that has repeatedly 357 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: torpedoed any legislation that would be helpful to Biden politically. 358 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: We're in the middle of this right now. In immigration, 359 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: a bipartisan tax bill didn't get through Chuck Grassley and 360 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: I owe Republicans said, yeah, might be a good bill, 361 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: but it would help Biden in the election. So reason 362 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: to do this? Yeah? Yeah? And and voting rights. Are 363 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: black voters seeing past the fact and maybe the answer 364 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: to this is obvious, but are they seeing past the 365 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: fact that this is something they do and should care 366 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: deeply about, and the fact that the White House might 367 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: be sort of handcuffed because they have a racalcia tren Congress. 368 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 3: Right, you know, listen, I think sure, I mean, I 369 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 3: think there is some recognition that there is a huge 370 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 3: roadblock in the Republican Party in terms of advancing any 371 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 3: number of you know, democratic causes, progressive causes. And that'll 372 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 3: be part of what Biden talks about, right, and Harris 373 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 3: talks about when they go before these audiences, when they 374 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 3: talk about abortion, for instance, the idea that they need 375 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 3: a more democratic House and democratic Senate, so send more 376 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 3: Democrats and he can get things done. But there is 377 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 3: I think, and this isn't specific to the Black community. 378 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 3: I think there is a sense among average voters that 379 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 3: presidents are sort of all powerful, right. It is the 380 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 3: office that most people are familiar with. They don't necessarily 381 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 3: pay attention to who their local congress person is or 382 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 3: their senators. But there is a sense, I think among 383 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 3: just average voters that presidents, through their power of persuasion 384 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 3: and we voted for you, that you should be able 385 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 3: to deliver on these issues, and if you don't, it 386 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 3: is demoralizing. It could be a failing on your part, 387 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 3: and it could mean that we stay home because I 388 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 3: haven't seen. 389 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 2: Any deliverables for giving you my vote. 390 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,479 Speaker 3: So you know, this is a conversation that is going 391 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 3: to have to be had in all sorts of ways, 392 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 3: sort of the traditional ways of campaigning, but then on 393 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 3: Facebook and TikTok and the Gram and all of those 394 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 3: social media platforms and the View and Charlemagne the God 395 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 3: places like that where we're African Americans, particularly young African Americans, 396 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 3: are very tuned into those sites and those folks. 397 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: He wrote a great column about Nikki Haley and her 398 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: effort to sort of I guess disappear slavery as a 399 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: factor in the Civil War. We are in the midst 400 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: of this, I think, literal whitewashing of African American history 401 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: and the Civil War perpetrated by the Republicans and the 402 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: right for political reasons, and white supremacy, white nationalism, racism, 403 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: and discrimination are also a paramount issue for the black community. 404 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: Do black voters see Biden in light of all of that, 405 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: acting as a you know, an agent of change and protection? 406 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 3: You know, listen, I'm just going to be blunt here. 407 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 3: Biden is eighty one. I think she isn't someone I 408 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 3: think that average Black people, average people right looked to 409 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 3: as a pillar of strength. He's older, and some of 410 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 3: that is literally his age, and some of that is 411 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 3: probably just the burdens of the presidency and grief, quite frankly, 412 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 3: because he's had so many losses in his life. I 413 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 3: definitely think to a certain segment of African Americans, older 414 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 3: African Americans, sort of the church going set of African Americans, 415 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 3: they see by not necessarily as a sort of protector, 416 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 3: but as a good, decent human being. And that sort 417 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,719 Speaker 3: of sounds, you know, not like high praise, but it 418 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 3: is high praise to just ordinary folks that he just 419 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: has a core goodness to him and a decency. You know, 420 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 3: there is a video that's circulating online now of him 421 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 3: comforting one of the families of one of the soldiers 422 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 3: that was just killed, and this was a black family 423 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,719 Speaker 3: in Georgia, I believe, And just the humanity and the 424 00:23:54,760 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 3: connection and the sense of heart and under standing in 425 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 3: empathy that he displays almost more than any politician I 426 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 3: can think of in recent history. It's almost pastoral. I 427 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 3: think that goes a long way with African Americans. It 428 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 3: isn't that he's going to sort of stand between Donald Trump, 429 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 3: stand between the racists and protect African Americans, but there 430 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 3: is a sense I think that African Americans do feel 431 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 3: like his heart is in the right place, that he 432 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 3: understands African Americans and that he's on the side of 433 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 3: African Americans. And he's trying to go to South Carolina 434 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 3: and say you had my back back in twenty twenty, 435 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,479 Speaker 3: and I'm going to have your back as well. So 436 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 3: I do think that goes a long way. And also 437 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 3: I think they're going to remind people that he was 438 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 3: Obama's vice president, right he was loyal to Obama. I 439 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 3: remember in twenty twenty hearing so many black people talk 440 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 3: about that, right, the idea that here he was the 441 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 3: right hand man to America's first black president, and it 442 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 3: was you were loyal to Obama. We're going to stand 443 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 3: by you and be loyal to you, Joe Biden. So 444 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 3: list before I came on with you today, I was thinking, 445 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 3: you know, maybe they should give some sort of joint 446 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 3: care of view in sixty minutes, right, it's sort. 447 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: Of a you know, I'm sure they will do something 448 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: or joint appearances. It's just I think that's a strength 449 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: they both can play to. And he was a model 450 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: vice president for Obama. You know, he filled the role 451 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: the way you'd want a vice president to fill it. 452 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: They I think developed a friendship unexpectedly during that presidency 453 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: because there was hostility in the beginning. You know, one 454 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: other sort of broad category, and I think of this 455 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: as you know, a democratic problem more generally and not 456 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: Biden specifically, but is you know the idea of broad 457 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: investment in black communities, whether it's education or infrastructure or 458 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: small business loans, healthcare, an array of different investments that 459 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: will make communities independent and thriving. And when I sometimes 460 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: think of this issue of promises broken or promises not kept, 461 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: it is the historical legacy of the Democrats that they 462 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: had tried to deliver some of those solutions to black communities. 463 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: And is that a thing that hangs over this as 464 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: well for the black community or do you think there's 465 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 1: other things that are front of mind for black. 466 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 3: Voters, meaning the failure to deliver or at least this 467 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 3: sort of effort to deliver. I think that's right. I 468 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 3: think that's yes. And this will also be a way 469 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 3: that I think Republicans will try to dissuade black people 470 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 3: from voting or actually have Black people vote for Republicans. 471 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 3: The idea that listen, you've been giving your votes to 472 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 3: Democrats for all these generations in many ways, and what 473 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 3: have they done. What do your schools look like, what 474 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 3: do your communities look like? There's still under investment in 475 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 3: education and infrastructure, And so I think, yes, that is 476 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 3: something that you hear. But then I think there's a 477 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 3: choice here, Right, Democrats say they want to do better, 478 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 3: Oftentimes they can't for any number of reasons. Often that 479 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 3: is Republicans being obstructionists, and then they're Republicans, right, who 480 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 3: don't even really have any ideas for improvement and investment 481 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 3: in these African American communities. What does Biden always say, 482 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 3: don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. 483 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 3: And so I think that's the argument they'll make. But 484 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 3: listen again, I think it goes back to some of 485 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 3: that discontent around Obama. There's so much hope invested in Obama, 486 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 3: so much hope invested in Joe Biden, and then when 487 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 3: you get down to it, materially, a lot of these 488 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 3: communities haven't changed, even though listen at, the unemployment rate 489 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 3: is record low among African Americans, child poverty is on 490 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 3: the decline, more investments in HBCUs, so they do have 491 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 3: something to talk about, and listen. I live in a 492 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 3: fairly diverse, working class ish area in Washington, DC. Yeah, 493 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 3: and sometimes I'm like, you know, I go into Marshalls 494 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 3: and Target. It's packed, right, It's packed with folks who 495 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,360 Speaker 3: are buying all sorts of things they don't need, particularly 496 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 3: from Marshalls. And I do think there is a sense 497 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 3: that and you see some of this in the consumer 498 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 3: confidence number, is that the economy is people are starting 499 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 3: to sort of feel it and that it's better than 500 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 3: they thought, and so those things I think will matter 501 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 3: as well. 502 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: All right, let's take another quick break right there, Nia, 503 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: and then we will come back and continue this very 504 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: interesting conversation. I'm back in having a great conversation with 505 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: Nia Malika Henderson, a political columnist with Bloomberg Opinion. We're 506 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: talking about black voters and the twenty twenty four election. 507 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about mobilizing. We've touched on it 508 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,479 Speaker 1: on and off. I was intrigued both by Ohio and 509 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: Virginia this year, where similar you know, there were differences, 510 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: but issues came up before voters around abortion, access to 511 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: reproductive healthcare, reproductive rights. Governors of both of those states 512 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: were trying to impose much more restrictive measures around abortion, 513 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: and black votevoters got busy and they really got activated 514 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: around that issue. And we're pivotal in both states and 515 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: not only turning back those policies, but in Virginia's case, 516 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: actually establishing a majority in the state legislature. Clearly people 517 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: were paying attention to the issue. Clearly people got around 518 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: those voters and made it happen. And it does offer 519 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: an example of what can be done at this microcosmic 520 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: local level with the right issue and the right organization, 521 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: and you get both great policy results and you get 522 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: a good political outcome if you're a Democrat. Is that 523 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: something that Democrats could mobilize nationally between now in November, 524 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: finding those themes and turning the voters out. 525 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. And obviously abortion is going to be a huge issue. 526 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 3: You have Kamala Harris taking the lead on that, framing 527 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 3: it as a matter of rights and freedom and equality. 528 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 3: And we've seen every time it's either sort of the 529 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 3: pro choice or pro life movement in these different states. 530 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 3: In some red states as you mentioned Ohio for instance, 531 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 3: the pro choice side has won. So you've got some 532 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 3: efforts by Democratic activists, women's rights activists trying to put 533 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 3: some of these ballot measures in states to galvanize voters. 534 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 3: You know, Democrats didn't want to talk about abortion for 535 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 3: years and years and years, and now they found their 536 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 3: voice on it. A lot of that has to do 537 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 3: with Kama Harris, as I mentioned, and just this idea, 538 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 3: you know, she gave a speech two weeks ago, this 539 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 3: idea that who do these people think they are right? 540 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 3: There's a kind of anger and righteous indignation. I think 541 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 3: that African Americans women in particular, feel this idea that 542 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 3: America now is less free because of the fall of 543 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 3: Row and some of these states that have very restrictive 544 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 3: abortion laws anti abortion laws, that America is less free 545 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 3: now than it was in the Roe v. Wade era. So, 546 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 3: you know, you look at that, and I think for 547 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 3: African Americans who have been on the front lines expanding rights, 548 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 3: this idea that you're going backwards in terms of the 549 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 3: kind of rights in Americans enjoy. It is an issue 550 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 3: that I think is going to come up a lot, 551 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 3: and it will be effective for Democrats to argue around that, 552 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 3: and I think it's going to be the centerpiece of 553 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 3: what Democrats do in terms of mobilizing voters. 554 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: You know, in the context of all that, I just 555 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: want to like briefly touch on your own journey, because 556 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: I find it both I'll embarrass you, but I find 557 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: it both admirable and inspiring. Your native of South Carolina. 558 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: You went to Duke, you graduated cum laude, You got 559 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: graduate degrees from Yale and Columbia, and then a string 560 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: of high profile journalism jobs Politico, The Washington Post, CNN, 561 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: and now you're stuck with me, and you wrote, I'll 562 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: embarrass you further by reading your own words to you. 563 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: But you wrote a beautiful column about Black History Month. 564 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: And you're also a mother, I should add, because that's 565 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: relevant to that. You know, you're a successful black woman, 566 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: you're a successful mother, you're a successful professional in a 567 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: world that can line up against that in so many 568 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: different ways. And you're writing about the relevancy and utility 569 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: of Black History Month, and you wrote across the country 570 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: at colleges and corporations, diversity and inclusion initiatives are being targeted, 571 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: as are black academics. Black books are among the most banned. 572 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: The post George Floyd racial reckoning faced a huge backlash 573 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: and never quite materialized for any sustained period of time. Sure, 574 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: there are now bandages that match the skin of black people. 575 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: Imagine that. And Auntchemima and Uncle Ben are no more. 576 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: But is that all? And then you go on in 577 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: this very poignant, beautifully written column to talk about, well, 578 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: you look at your daughter and you look at her 579 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: world compared to yours, and that there's things in her 580 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: world you didn't have growing up, and you had things 581 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: your mother didn't have, and you have some optimism baked 582 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: into that. I wonder do you think that that optimism 583 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: translates into the political process for enough Black voters these days. 584 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 3: That's an excellent question, listen. I think optimism is at 585 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 3: the core of the African American experience, right, this imagining 586 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 3: of a world that didn't exist and fighting for that world. 587 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,239 Speaker 3: You know, it's our heritage. I mean, I grew up 588 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 3: with parents who my father in particular, as a young man, 589 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 3: marched with doctor King. It wasn't you know, there were 590 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,239 Speaker 3: a series of marches around Bloody Sunday. I think there 591 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 3: were three up together. He was at the second one. 592 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 3: So on Martin Luther King Day, I was able to 593 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,239 Speaker 3: show my daughter a picture of her grandfather, who is 594 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 3: no longer with us, standing on the steps of Brown 595 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 3: Am Chapel with Martin Luther King sort of over his shoulder. 596 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 3: And I'm also, obviously, I'm a woman, I'm black. I'm 597 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 3: also a lesbian, right and so to see the trajectory 598 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 3: of the country go from being very hostile to same 599 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 3: sex marriage to myself being married to a woman and 600 00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 3: having a beautiful daughter, I am definitely somebody who I'm 601 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 3: a prisoner of hope for lack of a better phrase, 602 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 3: and sometimes I feel, you know, naive. After I wrote 603 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 3: that column, I was sort of thinking of my academic 604 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 3: friends that were like, Oh, they're going to read this 605 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 3: and be like, Oh, she's very naive. But in so 606 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 3: many ways, I kind of wrote that for my mom, 607 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 3: right somebody who she was born in nineteen thirty eight. 608 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 3: She was born in Chicago, saw the civil rights movement, 609 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 3: Women's rights movement, had four kids, and really tried to 610 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 3: create a black world right and black pride in her 611 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 3: kids and did it in the best way she could, 612 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 3: but she also wanted it for my friends and neighbors 613 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 3: who lived in houses nearby. And the black books she 614 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 3: had she would often go and read to kids at school. 615 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 3: And so now here I am very easily being able 616 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 3: to kind of cultivate a black life for my kid 617 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,919 Speaker 3: with black books and the Black History Museum, which she's 618 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 3: gone to a couple of times already, and black dolls 619 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 3: and black panther And it really is amazing to see 620 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 3: that that kind of journey just in my own life. 621 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 3: And partly I think we have to be optimistic to 622 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 3: honor people who have fought for where we are now 623 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 3: right to sort of discount the progress is to discount 624 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 3: the movement, discount the activists who pushed for this reality 625 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 3: we live in now. 626 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:19,720 Speaker 2: Listen. 627 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 3: Are things perfect? Absolutely not. Is there more work to 628 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 3: be done? Absolutely? But I myself can just say someone 629 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 3: who is closeted in college and in high school and 630 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 3: who's now living as an openly gay black woman and 631 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 3: working in what is really my dream job? 632 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 2: Tim, I think I told you that. 633 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: I'm so happy that it is. 634 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, this idea in kind of political discourse, 635 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 3: people often kind of think of African Americans as not 636 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 3: being patriotic, right, And often I see black people have 637 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 3: pushed this country to really live up to its ideals, right, 638 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 3: And so in that way, you know, politically, I think 639 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 3: if you're somebody like Joe Biden, you're the Dems, you're 640 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 3: trying to connect that struggle. 641 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 2: Right. 642 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 3: He goes to Mother Emmanuel as one of his first speeches, 643 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 3: where those nine African Americans were killed by white supremacists, 644 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 3: and talks about that history, talks about white supremacy, and 645 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 3: then talks about advancement too, and some of the deliverables 646 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 3: of his administration, and this idea that you know, just 647 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 3: the struggle continues. So listen, we'll see what African Americans 648 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 3: do in terms of coming out to vote. I will 649 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 3: also say this, I think every cycle Life covered it 650 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,839 Speaker 3: is the exact same story. Black voters. Are they going 651 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 3: to turn out based? I mean literally even Obama right, Obama, 652 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 3: by the time he was standing for reelection, had come 653 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 3: out for same sex marriage, and all these stories about 654 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 3: is this going to hamper his ability to get African 655 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 3: American voters to turn out for him? 656 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 2: Obviously it did not. 657 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 3: And so this is listen, if you go back every election, 658 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 3: there is this question, and we'll just see how it 659 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 3: turns out. 660 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: You mentioned Kamala he earlier. You mentioned Biden talking directly 661 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: to Black voters and the aspirations and dreams you've had 662 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: as a person. And I always think in these elections 663 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: about connecting hopes and dreams to the practical battle on 664 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: the streets of the hard work of winning votes. And 665 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: we could do a whole episode about Kamala Harris, and 666 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: I'm going to avoid that here because we'd go on 667 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: and on, but only in the context of whether or 668 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: not the Democratic Party is good at recruiting, training, and 669 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:32,359 Speaker 1: getting exposure for candidates of color, black candidates or any 670 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: candidate of color. And I think one of the mysteries 671 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: to me is I think the Republicans are very good 672 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: structurally at messaging, recruitment, and talent development. I think some 673 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: of the talents they develop have become a freak show, 674 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 1: but that's the direction they chose to do some of 675 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: their talent development. But is the Democratic Party structured in 676 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: a way now where it is recruiting bright prospects and 677 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,320 Speaker 1: getting them the training and exposure they need to be 678 00:37:58,360 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: great candidates. 679 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 3: Assuming you're meaning African American candidates, right, listen. I think 680 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 3: the big barrier to that is America. 681 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 1: Right. 682 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 3: It's sort of the anti blackness that is part of 683 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 3: our heritage as Americans. It is incredibly hard for an 684 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 3: African American mayor in Birmingham, Alabama or Tuskegee, Alabama to 685 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 3: go on and win that state statewide, right because of racism. 686 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 3: Quite frankly, there have been moments I remember post Obama, Gweneifel, 687 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 3: who I'm sure you knew, wrote a great book that 688 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 3: really was this idea that there were going to be 689 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 3: these other candidates in the wake of Obama that would 690 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,879 Speaker 3: reach heights in American politics. Kama Harris was one of them. 691 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,919 Speaker 3: I think check mark the prediction there was a good one. 692 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 3: But a lot of those folks in that book just 693 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 3: couldn't break through, right, breakthrough from going to Congress to 694 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 3: the House to the Senate, for instance, from a mayoral 695 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 3: position to a higher position. So I don't even know 696 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 3: that it's the Democratic Party's fault. I think the Democratic 697 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:13,240 Speaker 3: Party is faced with the reality that it's just hard 698 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 3: to break through these kind of barriers that limit black 699 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 3: aspiration in other areas. Do the same thing in the 700 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 3: political arena, you know. Now you think about the mayor 701 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 3: or the governor, I should say, of Maryland, Wes Moore, 702 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 3: can he go anywhere? Right beyond that? Is there a 703 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 3: next Obama? For instance? I think that's sort of at 704 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 3: the root of it, right Who is the next Obama? 705 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 3: I wrote a story years ago when I was at 706 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 3: the Washington Post, and the title is something like, who 707 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 3: is the next Obama? Nobody because of just the cynicism 708 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 3: I think around, how do you get a black candidate 709 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 3: who's able to be as gifted as somebody as Obama was, 710 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 3: who can resonate with white voters and black voters and 711 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 3: Latino voters listen. I would amend that now, and I 712 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 3: would say I think one of the most gifted black 713 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 3: politicians on the scene now is Raphael Warnock in Georgia, 714 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 3: the Senator of Georgia, who's able to do this amazing 715 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 3: thing which has become Senator of Georgia over and over again. 716 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 3: And so I think he has this real great combination 717 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 3: of just being able to relate to regular folks of 718 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 3: all stripes in Georgia and then the sort. 719 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 2: Of power of his oration. 720 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 3: He obviously has a background in divinity and preaching. 721 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: So we'll see in watching this election, this election cycle 722 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: this year, what are you learning that you didn't know before? 723 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: What has the big aha ben for you? 724 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 2: Thus far? 725 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 3: I am constantly amazed at how engaged voters are. I mean, 726 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 3: in some ways this sounds like a cliche, but I 727 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,399 Speaker 3: think voters are catching all on to the stakes, right, 728 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,840 Speaker 3: And I think part of that was what they saw 729 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen, right. And so you see this sort 730 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 3: of level of engagement with the candidates with policy in 731 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 3: a way that I think always surprises me. And talking 732 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 3: to voters. I did listen to a focus group of 733 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 3: Trump to Biden voters and they had been paying attention 734 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,280 Speaker 3: not only to the sort of gaffes of Donald Trump 735 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 3: or Joe Biden, but you know, kind of policy issues, right, 736 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 3: And so I think it's partly because people saw what 737 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 3: happened with Donald Trump. People saw what that meant for 738 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 3: foreign policy, for the Supreme Court, for any number of 739 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 3: policy issues, and so now they're engaged in a way 740 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 3: that they weren't before. I think the Georgia elections also 741 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 3: showed that. And so you know, when I hear people say, oh, 742 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 3: voters might stay home and they're not going to be enthused, 743 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 3: I tend to think they will be. Given the past 744 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 3: couple of elections that we've seen the past few cycles 745 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 3: post to twenty sixteen, you do see I think a 746 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 3: level of engagement and if not enthusiasm, but at least 747 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 3: a recognition that every vote counts, because we've seen many 748 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 3: elections where it's come down to the very very margins, 749 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,840 Speaker 3: and I think twenty twenty four is going to be 750 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 3: the exact same way. 751 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: We're out of time. Nia, thank you for joining me today. 752 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Tim, This was great. 753 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: Nia. Malika Henderson is a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion. You 754 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: can find her columns on the Bloomberg Opinion website and 755 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Terminal. You can also find her on Twitter 756 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 1: at Nia Malika h Here at crash Course, we believe 757 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 1: that collisions can be messy, impressive, challenging, surprising, and always instructive. 758 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 1: In today's crash Course, I learned that there might be 759 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: more hope for black turnout in the twenty twenty four 760 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 1: election than I previously believe. But I'm also a cynic, 761 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: so I'm going to adopt a weight and see attitude. 762 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 1: What did you learn? We'd love to hear from you. 763 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: You can tweet at the Bloomberg Opinion handle at Opinion 764 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: or me at Tim O'Brien using the hashtag Bloomberg Crash Course. 765 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 1: You can also subscribe to our show wherever you're listening 766 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,839 Speaker 1: right now and leave us a review. It helps more 767 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 1: people find the show. This episode was produced by the 768 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: indispensable and highly motivated Ana Mazarakis and me. Our supervising 769 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: producer is Magnus Hendrickson, and we had editing help from Sagebauman, 770 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:32,240 Speaker 1: Jeff Grocott, Mike Nizza, and Christine Benden. Bilard Blake Maples 771 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 1: is our sound engineering and our original theme song was 772 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: composed by Luis Gara. I'm Tim O'Brien. We'll be back 773 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: next week with another crash course.