WEBVTT - Bloomberg Intelligence: Nvidia Surges, Reddit U.S IPO 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:10.840 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:15.040 Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.079 Eastern on Apple Card playing Android Auto with the Bloomberg 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.440 Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.040 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:29.240 The story again today is Nvidio stock trading up on 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:31.520 the back of that really good earnings we had earlier 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:33.720 in the week, and obviously had that big surge yesterday, 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.080 but it's up a few percent here today. I'm looking 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.040 at this stock again, trailing twelve months, up over two 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.839 hundred and forty up sixty percent, just a year to 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.360 date two point zero two trillion dollars. Let's check in 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.920 with man Deep Singh. He's a senior technology analyst for 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.720 Bloomberg Intelligence and he knows all about this kind of stuff. So, 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:55.680 Man Deep, you know, I think we've broken down the quarter. 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:58.040 We know that business is good. We had gene Monster 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.800 on in the last hour for a couple segments there. 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:05.000 He remains uber uber bullish here and he says that 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:09.520 this AI is just below electricity in terms of how 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.720 it's going to impact our lives and well above the Internet. Man. 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.399 That's bullish. Do you have any sobering thoughts as it 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.920 relates to AI and in video Here I. 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.840 Concur with him. I think this is, you know, something 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:29.319 transformational multi year. The only thing that as an investor 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:33.200 you have to be cognizant of is clearly and video 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:38.800 is compounding, you know, at fifty percent, and because it's 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.679 a multi year trend, they can do that. What is 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:46.040 the price you pay for getting in this dock? And 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:50.240 what is a multiple that you know discounts for the 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.560 growth going far out beyond you know three to four quarters, 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.960 which I think they have great visibility on And so 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.600 that's where you know there there is always a price 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.960 for you know, even a high quality stock like in 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:10.320 VideA where the fundamentals are great, but it's not infinity. 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:14.880 And so that's the I think part where clearly you 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.959 know they're writing the momentum. It's it's great, I mean, 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.960 they had a blockbuster earning Siattra game, but it's we 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:22.960 know it's not forever. 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:24.760 And the price. 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.440 That's why we look at prices, multiples and you know, valuation, 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.240 and I think that's the part that market still is 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.120 figuring out what is the right multiple for stock like 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:34.799 in Video. 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.080 Mande, let's just come back for a second to what 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.320 in Video's technology actually is. It says here that they 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.280 dominate the market for graphics chips designed for complex computing 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:49.679 tasks needed to power AI applications. So in plain speak, 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:51.960 how does somebody like me make use of that? 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.280 Well, so think of you know, all the processing that 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:59.200 was done in the last thirty thirty five years. It 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:04.120 was used a CPU central processing unit, and CPU works 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.519 in a certain way in terms of the instructions you 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.920 pass through the processor, the way it does the processing, 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.800 and the way results are split out. That was the 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.440 same even with data centers, even though the CPU and 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.239 data centers is a lot more powerful within media because 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:24.360 they've focused on graphics and gaming related processing, that's a 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.959 different type of chip altogether. And now they've been able 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.760 to bring that to AI computation, which is all matrix space. 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:35.560 So we're talking about you know, vectors and matrix multiplication 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:39.720 and you know, billions of dimensions in terms of the 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.520 data that you're dealing with, and that's a very different 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.320 operation than what CPU is designed to handle. That's why 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.000 they've had such a great headstart because they've been doing 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.920 this for you know, twenty five plus years in terms 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.600 of that gaming processor that is being used for AI, 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.200 and that's why I think others are finding it hard 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.240 to catch up. But at the end of the day, 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.360 it's still a hardware company that makes chips, so it's 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.200 not a recurring revenue and that's something to be mindful 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.920 of that others are trying to build the capabilities that 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:12.280 they have. 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:15.840 All right, Mandy, let's switch gears a little bit. We've 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.400 i think beaten that one to death in Nvidia, but 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.640 certainly it's certainly worth talking about. But we've actually had 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.160 another piece of news that really caught my attention. Reddit 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:28.240 is looking to go public. They foiled their IPO. Can 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:30.280 you tell us, for those of us that don't use 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.719 Reddit exclusively, tell us kind of what Reddit is, kind 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.280 of what their business model is, and kind of how 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:37.920 you think this might be received by the market. 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.880 Yeah, so it's an online network. I mean, I would 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.039 lump it with the social media network companies, even though 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:50.280 it's more community based and interest based. And look, they've 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:54.200 got seventy three million daily active users. Think of you know, 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.480 all the large angled models. What are they trained on? 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.919 They're trained on user generated content and in reddits case, 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.400 it's all text content. The parallel that I have on 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:08.360 the video side is YouTube has a lot of user 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.719 generated video content, TikTok has a lot of user generated 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:16.560 video content. Reddit is your text repository for user generated content, 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.679 and that's what large angreid models are using to train 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.080 these models so that they can generate you know, right 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.200 kind of text because they have so much context from 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.440 these Reddit posts. I mean, we're talking about one billion 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.320 posts you know that Reddit generates in a year. So 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:37.080 clearly Reddit has the scale. They have created a niche 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:42.120 within this large social network community where Meta dominates with 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:46.640 three billion daily active users, but Reddit has seventy three million, 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.040 and these are pretty engaged users. I mean, the business 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.680 model isn't fleshed out because even though it's ads driven, 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.599 we're talking about a billion dollar run rate. And now 0:05:55.640 --> 0:06:00.440 they're opening another line data licensing that all these large 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:02.480 and A model companies are going to pay for. So 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.240 that's going to be probably a mid to high single 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.480 digit revenue contributors this year. I think that's the part 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.000 that's going to accelerate because you need to retrain these 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.760 models every few months, and Reddit is the best data 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:15.720 that you can train on. 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.760 So Reddit's really like a forum for a lot of 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.799 communities to gather. You know, they're like these different threads 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:25.320 on there, and people get like really hyped on different ideas. Obviously, 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.720 the meme stock rally really just originated so much from 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.039 these different Reddit communities. Can you just explain mandeep, like 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:37.960 where the value is going to come in generating you know, 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.680 investor you know value from some of these different threads. 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.240 I guess, like I'm just having a hard time imagining 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.240 where that value proposition comes from. 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:51.080 Yeah, so these threads are all user interaction, and that's 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.280 quite powerful. How do you train the machines to behave 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.960 like users? You train it on actual user data and 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:03.880 this is you know, communities coming together who share similar interests, 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.120 and that's what you use to train the machines. The 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.680 one problem I have found with Reddit's business model is 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.480 advertisers are leary of putting their ads on a platform 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:17.480 where there is hate or you know, other kind of 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:21.040 stuff because they are brand conscious. You know, they don't 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.880 want to show their ads next to something that is 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.520 paid or something like that. And that's where they haven't 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:29.960 had a lot of traction. I mean it sounds to 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.080 be very similar to Twitter. Twitter is a great platform 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.880 for engagement, but they haven't been able to monetize it 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:40.040 because of all these aspects. So brand safety is huge 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:42.440 that Reddit needs to solve for if they want to 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.040 scale on the ad side. But as I said before, 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.320 you know, on the data licensing side, this is the 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.920 data set that every foundational, large angrege model company wants 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.800 to train their models on. Because this is all user generated. 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:01.040 Content, it sounds like, I mean, you know, from an 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.880 advertising perspective, it's you know, it's Meta, it's you know, 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:09.680 it's Google, it's Amazon now maybe even you know some others. 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:11.600 But I mean, this is too small to be a 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:13.720 player in the advertising space. So in order for me 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.120 to buy this IPO, I have to buy off that 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.560 it's also a I guess AI play as well, don't I? 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.880 It absolutely is, and look, ads can be fixed. I mean, 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.480 I compare it to Pinterest. So Pinterest has got twenty 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.960 three million daily active users in the US. Reddit has 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:33.840 got thirty seven million daily active users in the US, 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.439 so it actually has higher daily active users question and 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.760 Pinterest is four times the size of Reddit in terms 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.480 of revenue run rate, So Pinterest is close to four billion, 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:46.880 Reddit is a billion. So in terms of runway, clearly, 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.800 you know, Reddit is under monetizing the engagement. But the 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.040 reason for that is advertisers still don't feel like spending 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.000 you know, five ten billion dollars on the platform because 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.800 of brand safety issues and all the type of post 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.600 or discussions they have on Reddit. So they need to 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.800 clean up that part. I'm sure the advertisers that you know, 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:11.360 they're advertising dollars of well spend, offer measurement, etc. But 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.640 this is fixable. I mean, we've seen Beta do so 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.320 much in terms of ad measurement and ad targeting and 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:19.439 look at what they have done this year. So clearly 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.199 there is a long runway for Reddit, and the data 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.000 licensing part has a lot of upside because of all 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:26.520 the generatord ai interests. 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:28.319 All right, Mandy, thanks so much for joining us. A 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.679 man deep seeing he's a senior technology analyst Bloomberg Intelligence 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.560 joining us via zoom there. So again, Reddit, it's interesting, 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:37.640 it's it's an ipo. We like to see more of 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:39.679 those hitting the market. It's a good signed for the market, 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:43.040 so the IPO buyers will be happy, and it's another 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.280 kind of social media play. But as Mandeep was saying, 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:47.960 it's got this AI angle to it as well. 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.199 I feel like every time we have a topic here 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:53.280 on the radio where we're talking about AI, I have 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.760 to ask, like, how is this like somebody like me 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.440 going to use these tools? Because, like, you know, we 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.400 talk about the impact, and sometimes it's hard to imagine 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.480 something that's really going to impact your life more than 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:06.320 the Internet or a cell phone, and like, is this 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.280 really accessible to the mass market? 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.079 Exactly so, But I mean you'd listen to every company 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.000 in s and P five hundred saying AI is can 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:14.400 to impact our business. You're going to go up to 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.720 a drive through and it's going to be a different experience, 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.160 of better experience thanks to the technology. And so we'll see, 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:21.200 you know, but that's clearly what we're a lot of 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:22.800 the bulls are banking on. 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:28.319 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.880 weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecard Play and Android 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.720 Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.920 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.000 just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:43.840 You know, I don't know what to do with this market, Moley, 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.160 Maybe I just is it just all in Nvidia all the. 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.839 Time, all teams like all Ta AI or nothing. 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.240 Al Tech exactly AI or nothing. But let's talk about 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.000 this market a more broad sense. Lauren Gilbert can help 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.319 us do that. She's a seat of wealth Wise Financial, 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.439 joining us via zoom from I believe Houston, Texas on 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.320 behalf of Houston, Texas. I'll call out WTI cud oil 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:05.480 is off about two percent today, seventy seven dollars. I 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.160 think that people in Houston care about that stuff. 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:08.800 I think they do a little bit. 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.240 Lauren, thanks much for joining us here. What do you 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.479 make of what we've experienced over the past few days, 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.160 in a few weeks as it relates to AI and 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:19.120 in Vidia and what it means for the tech space 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.680 and the market overall. I haven't seen anything like this 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:22.480 in a long time. 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.800 Right, Well, we are in the age of AI, which 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.679 is similar to the age of the Internet when it 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.360 came to be. Although this is going to transform really 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:37.200 every sector in every business, and so it is a 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.520 huge story. It is the catalyst of the market and 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.800 will continue to be in The good news from Nvidia 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:47.679 yesterday really was that it spread across the semiconductor space 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:52.360 as all of these different companies are looking to get 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.280 some market share. And so while we still don't know 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.760 who the winner is right now, certainly in Vidia has been, 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:02.000 but we like the whole space, so semiconductors and also 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.400 what it's going to do to other sectors as well, 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:06.000 So that is the catalyst. 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.240 How are you feeling right now about earnings in general? 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.040 Loreen, And I mean, obviously there's a lot of positives 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.320 to take from these AI stocks, but what about elsewhere? 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:18.040 Yeah, So with over eighty percent of the SMP having reported, 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:21.360 we're having a good earning season. We've clearly come out 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.880 of an earnings recession with year over year growth over 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:29.880 five percent. So we're in pretty good space there with earnings, 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:34.080 and we do see opportunities in other areas of the market. 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:37.840 Communications services is one that we like quite a bit 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.880 as well as healthcare is another sector that we like. 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.600 Just with inflation continuing to come down, and so the 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:48.160 story is that the backdrop is there with inflation coming down, 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.360 with the FED that's going to make a move sometime 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.320 this year. We're still holding on to the idea of 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.400 May maybe the first rate cut, even though probability has 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.480 come down to twenty one percent now for a May 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.400 rate cut, we still think, you know, it's sooner than 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:02.840 later with a rate cut, which is going to help 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:07.320 the many items, especially even housing and home builders for 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.120 the second half of the year. So we do see 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.560 a lot of optimism in areas of the market. 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.720 Laurie and I to see that you like preferred stock, 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.440 and we don't talk about preferred stock preferred stock market 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:22.040 opportunities with preferred stock. Why in some markets it's a 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:26.360 real advantageous vehicle. How do you think about preferred stock. 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.120 Yeah, the way that we're thinking about right now is 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:33.040 the yield is good and it helps us mitigate duration 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.720 risk on fixed income, and so it's a nice play 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.800 between the stock and the bond and looking at preferred 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.080 stock as a way to capture some yield and mitigate 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:43.560 some risk. 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.360 Well, how are you thinking about the broader fixed income 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.320 space right now? You know you just said that your 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.040 that is sooner rather than later for a FED rate cut, 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.679 which seems like is not what a lot of FED 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.000 officials are saying these days. 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.760 Right, And there's always what is being said and what 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:05.080 will ultimately be done. But you know, so having some 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:09.400 duration is good, but not extending too far. We're you know, 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.120 just right pretty close to the benchmark as far as 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.360 duration is concerned. On fixed income, we do like fixed income, 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.720 and we do think that fixed income is going to 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:22.360 be a good part of a portfolio this year as 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.480 we don't see necessarily a straight line in the equity markets, 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.600 and so having some fixed income there will be good 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.080 to moderate risk on the equity side. We're also looking 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.920 at the earning zeald on stocks right now is not 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.400 that attractive, you know, compared to ten year treasury, so 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.040 you know, looking at that idea. So once again, blended 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.680 portfolio we think is going to be a good story 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.080 this year. And of course, just depending on somebody's risk tolerance, 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.880 where will that blend be. But not being all equity 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.160 or not all fixed income, but having a blend, we 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.600 think it's going to be provide some some decent returns 0:14:58.600 --> 0:14:59.000 this year. 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.760 Hitherin you hear from your clients about their interest in 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:07.240 I guess alternatives, whether it's private equity, private credit, maybe 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.200 hedge funds. What's the interest level there and kind of 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:11.120 how do you steer them? 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:17.280 Yeah, we like alternative investments. We hold alternative investment in 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.240 the spaces you know, you've mentioned a number of them, 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.400 and there's liquid alternatives and there's non liquid alternatives, and 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:28.160 that's really the conversation to have with investors is you know, 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.800 how much liquidity do you need? And certainly what the 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.760 public markets offer us is liquidity, and that's important. And 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.800 then there are ways to drive more alpha, more excess 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:44.000 returns versus what might be expected, and that those are 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.240 some of those non liquid alternatives. So I think a 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.400 combination of both is important, and once again looking at 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.280 investors to see what kind of liquidity they actually need. 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:55.520 So it sounds like tech's a good place to be 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:56.120 right now. 0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:01.040 You've mentioned you also like some communications stocks. Where else 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:02.760 are you looking in terms of the industry breakdown? 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:08.240 Like I was mentioning in healthcare, we like biotech as well, 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:12.120 just because that is an area that as inflation wanes, 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.880 tends to be positive for that area of the market. 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:20.600 Those also tend to be oftentimes smaller companies, and while 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.360 we're still seeing a dominance of the large cap space, 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.120 we think there will be a reversal to that trend 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.400 this year and we'll see benefits from smaller cap companies 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.200 as rates start to come down. So that's another area 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:32.680 that we like. 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:34.640 All Right, Lurene, thank you so much for joining us. 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:36.200 Really appreciate getting a few minutes of your time with 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.920 Loreen Gilbert, CEO of wealth Wise Financial, joining us via 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:41.280 zoom from Houston, Texas. 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:47.120 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.920 weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple car Playing and 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.920 Broud Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:57.280 wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:16:57.760 --> 0:16:59.920 Or news coming out of Washington as it relates to 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.720 Ukraine in Russia, the US today unveils its biggest sankets 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:07.480 package on Russia since the war began. A drone maker 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.440 and a payment system company are among targets of penalties. 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:16.080 Secretary Yellens as Russia's economy is showing quote signs of weakness. 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.880 Let's break it down with Dan flat Lake, national security 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:23.120 reporter for Bloomberg News, joins is to via zoom from Washington, DC. Dan, 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.520 what's in this sanctions package? 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.639 Well, there's a lot of stuff in it. 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.080 We're talking about, you know, all told about six hundred 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.880 or so targets, but a lot of them aren't really 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.720 household names, so you're looking at primarily Russian companies with 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:44.600 or individuals no ties to the US financial system. But 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.040 they are getting shipments and they're getting some goods in 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.520 from third countries that are helping kind of keep the 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.040 war machine going. So the idea here is basically to 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:56.840 kind of ratchet up some pressure on the Russian economy, 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.760 kind of clamp down on some of the places where 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.199 things are still getting through, and then really kind of 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:07.240 you know, look forward to potentially some other measures that 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.840 may be taken, you know, in the next few months. 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.280 Dan tell us how effective, if at all, the sanctions 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.080 up to date have been, because you know, the IMF 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.800 and your story said that Russia's economy is actually on 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.840 track to grow almost three percent this year and it's 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.760 really seems to be holding up pretty well by and large. 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:28.280 Yeah, there's no question that, you know, as far as 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:29.560 the strategic goal of. 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.080 Getting putin to you know, give up the invasion and 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.440 withdraw from Ukraine, that obviously hasn't happened, and we're now 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.920 two years into this conflict. There have been some effects, 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.080 you know, on the Russian economy. Growth is a little 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.399 bit slower, at least it was initially. Now, as you mentioned, 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.160 the IMF projects that it will be close to two 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.080 point six or three pert, you know, up to three 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:54.560 percent this year. So it's it's blowing the economy, uh, 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.119 you know, not as much as the US would have hoped, 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.560 but it has forced Putin to sort of turn economy 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:05.119 into a wartime economy, to basically kind of turn his 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.680 entire manufacturing sector over to producing stuff for the war, 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:17.119 and the hope is obviously over. Of course, that doesn't 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.720 really help Ukraine now, and that's where we get into 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.200 some of the funding battles that are happening here in Congress. 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.199 Oh, thank you very much, Hey Dan. We had Deputy 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:30.480 US Treasury Secretary Wally Adayamo on Bloomberg Surveillance television this morning, 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:33.960 and Jonathan Farrow asked him about India because Indian India 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:35.960 has been one of those countries that it's kind of 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:39.679 been a little bit loose with its relationship with Russia. 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:43.080 How does the administration think about India and its placed 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:45.399 kind of geopolitics and how it may be interacting with 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:48.400 Russia maybe against some of these sanctions. 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.360 Yeah, it's a huge, huge problem some of our colleagues 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.280 from Bloomberg Economics have done a great analysis on sort 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.240 of the ten Lessons from the Russia Ukraine War that 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.480 was out yesterday, and you know, they look at sort 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.200 of the rise of this block of countries that are 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:08.760 really rivaling the US and its allies, not necessarily in 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.640 terms of size of economic weight or power in terms 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.760 of global GDP, but certainly as an alternative to the 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:18.919 US led kind of financial system. 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:21.400 And that's India, and that's China, and when it. 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:25.399 Comes to Russia, those countries are really keeping Russia propped 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:26.359 up to a large extent. 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:27.760 India is buying Russian. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:32.600 Oil, China is buying Russian oil, China is sending technology 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.080 and other goods onto Russia. Russia is also getting weapons 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.280 from Iran and North Korea and other places. So there's 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.960 kind of a whole rival faction that has cropped up 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.760 that is going to be very hard to counteract, especially 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:49.439 when you're talking about India, which is an ally the 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:51.120 US in so many other ways. 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.040 Yeah, Dan, you know, you and I had talked about 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.480 this a bit time ago last year. The idea of 0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:00.000 export controls is that what we're alluding to here, Like basically, 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.639 when you know, some of these countries that you know, 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:05.960 like India maybe in this case that aren't being directly 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.440 sanctioned by the US, but can still you know, kind 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.000 of work with Russia behind the scenes and help get 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.199 around these sanctions and maybe a bit more of an 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:15.040 indirect way. 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:18.280 Yeah, I mean, it's a really it's a huge issue 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:20.719 right now, just from a policy perspective. If you think 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:23.520 about sanctions and the history of sanctions, the way sanctions work, 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:25.760 they really leverage the financial system. 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.800 Which you know it works. It's technology, so you can 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:31.520 see payments moving through the system. 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:35.800 It's very easy for banks to know that they you know, 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:37.679 if they violate sanctions, they're going to get hit with 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:41.240 big fines. Export controls is a totally different game because 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:45.920 you're talking about boxes and microchips and things that are 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:49.960 moving through sometimes a more informal economy, and it's harder 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:52.320 to track that sort of thing. And I've talked to 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:54.159 folks in the last week or so that say, you know, 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.800 once that stuff hits Hong Kong, once it hits Turkey, 0:21:57.880 --> 0:21:59.600 or once it hits some of these certain countries, we 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:01.800 lose all all visibility of them. We don't really know 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:05.120 where it's going, so how do you stop that from happening. 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:07.800 It's just not as well developed as sanctions. 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.919 So Dan, we had Admiral Sturritis on earlier today, the 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:15.840 former NATO Supreme Commander, four star admiral retired US Navy. 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.240 He was saying, boy, they need the weapons now, the 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:23.879 Ukrainians now, And you know, it's really at a critical 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:27.600 time here. You get a feeling within DC that there's 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:29.800 a belief that that this is a critical time or 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:32.879 is this simply a political game at this point? 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:36.920 You know, it's a good question. It's hard to say exactly. 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:41.760 I think that there are some folks on Capitol Hill who. 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:42.960 Do feel the urgency. 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:47.959 Senator Schumer, the Senate majority leader, is in Kiev today 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:51.040 as we speak, visiting with Ukrainian leadership. 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:53.640 Republicans have gone as well. In the past. 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:56.639 Mitch McConnell has certainly been pushing for Ukraine a The 0:22:56.680 --> 0:23:00.520 Senate did pass a package that will provide Ukraine with 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:02.879 weapons and other financial support, but it's. 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:03.639 Stuck in the House. 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:07.040 And that's where it gets into a much stricier political 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.960 situation because you have the former President Donald Trump really 0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:16.119 pushing against this kind of package. You have some isolationists 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:17.959 in the Republican Party who say, you know, why are 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:20.320 we spending all this money in Europe when we should 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:22.880 be spending it on the southern border. There's a lot 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:25.520 of things that are happening there in an election year 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:28.879 that makes it very hard for something that ordinarily would 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:32.280 get you know, a majority support and really probably would 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:34.840 and put it on the floor of the House, makes 0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:36.120 it much harder to get done. 0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:38.560 So that's that's a real sticking point right now. 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:41.359 When we're talking about sanctions, though, Dan, is that something 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:43.920 that would be subject to the same kind of approval 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:47.480 process as Ukraine aimed, would be as going through Congress 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:48.440 in that same kind of way. 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:50.520 Well, I think this is one of the things. 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:52.880 One of the reasons why sanctions, the use of sanctions 0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:54.960 is up like one thousand percent over the last two 0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:57.919 decades or two and a half decades, is because you 0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:01.160 don't have to spend a ton of money to wield them, 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:02.879 don't necessarily need. 0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:03.679 Approval from Congress. 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:06.520 Every time you want to levy su sanctions, you do 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:10.159 you want to spend you know, fifty sixty seventy billion 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:13.560 dollars if you want to reinvigorate the Defense Industrial Base. 0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:15.560 If you want to do all these things that actually 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:19.800 matter on the battlefield, you need Congress, you need the 0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:23.200 purse strings, and you know, so that's a much harder sell. 0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:26.840 But sanctions, you know, I won't say they're easier to 0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:29.840 wield necessarily, but they are more efficient in the sense 0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:32.320 that the administration can do it on its own without 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:33.960 having to go to Congress for authorization. 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:36.680 All right, Dan, thanks so much for joining us. Really 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.520 appreciate getting your thoughts and analysis there. Dan Flatley, a 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:43.679 national security reporter for Bloomberg News, joining us via zoom 0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:45.800 from Washington, DC. 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:51.359 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 0:24:51.440 --> 0:24:54.960 weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and Android 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:57.760 Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen 0:24:57.880 --> 0:25:00.960 live on Amazon Alexa from our Flag New York station 0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:03.919 just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven th. 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:07.960 Our c SUEE conversation today. Kevin Butler Joints, and he's 0:25:07.960 --> 0:25:11.080 the CEA of Excellent ex C is a ticker to 0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:14.240 put into your Bloomberg terminal here at Utility Company. But 0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:15.680 I want you to tell us just start off, Calvin, 0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:17.800 thanks so much for joining us, but tell us about 0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:19.560 your company, what you guys are doing, and don't get 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:20.439 into kind of the meat of it. 0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:23.240 Absolutely, and good morning and thank you for having me so. 0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:27.840 Excellent is the largest transmission and distribution utility in the country. 0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:31.960 We have the privileged and responsibility to serve approximately ten 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:35.760 point five million customers across some of the most diverse 0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:38.720 and largest cities in the United States through our utilities 0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:42.520 Commonwealth Edison in Chicago, Baltimore Gas and Electric and of 0:25:42.560 --> 0:25:47.000 course Baltimore Pico out of Philadelphia, Pepco Holdings, which is 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:50.960 sitting in our nation's capital, VC del Marble Power and 0:25:51.000 --> 0:25:54.080 Light in Wilmington, Delaware, and Atlantic City Electric. So when 0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:58.240 you look at that scale and size, Excellent is positioned 0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:01.119 well to lead this energy transfer and that's who we 0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:02.720 are and how we show up for our customers. 0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:06.560 So you guys just had earnings a couple of days ago, right, Yeah, 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:09.400 So tell us about the latest quarters, some of the highlights, 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:12.040 and what you're looking forward to in the year or. 0:26:12.000 --> 0:26:12.520 So to come. 0:26:12.760 --> 0:26:15.760 No, thank you for asking, as Wednesday was a good day, 0:26:16.359 --> 0:26:19.840 and I say that because we beat our fourth quarter 0:26:19.880 --> 0:26:24.280 expectations and we exceeded expectations for the twenty twenty three, 0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:27.400 and I was just so proud of the team that 0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:30.000 we were able to deliver on our commitments that we 0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:33.159 made in twenty twenty three despite all the challenges, and 0:26:33.200 --> 0:26:35.960 when I say challenges, when you look at in Pennsylvania 0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:37.879 had one of the warmest winters that had in the 0:26:38.000 --> 0:26:42.199 last fifty years, and being a distribution company the gas 0:26:42.480 --> 0:26:45.280 company that we do there, we continue we overcame those 0:26:45.320 --> 0:26:48.960 headwinds and still met the number. And in addition to that, 0:26:49.560 --> 0:26:53.280 despite the challenges in our regulatory environment, because of our skill, 0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:56.280 we will continued to able to shift capital around our 0:26:56.320 --> 0:26:59.520 platform to invest in the things that are most important 0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:00.400 to our custos. 0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:01.639 So it was a good day, all right. 0:27:01.720 --> 0:27:04.240 My analyst of Bloomberg Intelligence that covers your stocks, she writes, 0:27:04.280 --> 0:27:07.800 since she says, ask them about Illinois, so talk about 0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:10.160 some regulatory headwinds. It seems like Illinois in the news 0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:12.000 and not always for the right reasons, but anyway, talks 0:27:12.000 --> 0:27:13.800 about doing business in Illinois. 0:27:14.040 --> 0:27:16.880 You know, KMET is the largest hutility in Illinois, having 0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:20.520 the privilege of serving Chicago, and your analyst is right on, 0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:23.960 Illinois is a difficult jurisdiction for us, right Now, we 0:27:24.080 --> 0:27:28.440 had a ruling on December fourteenth, and that ruling set 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:33.600 I think their efforts to decarbonize and to move forward 0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:37.679 on transportational electrification that they were on. But we are 0:27:37.720 --> 0:27:41.040 committed to working with all of our stakeholders, including the Commission, 0:27:41.080 --> 0:27:44.040 to get to where we have a shared vision to 0:27:44.080 --> 0:27:47.040 move Illinois forward. But it was it was a December 0:27:47.119 --> 0:27:49.520 fourteenth I remember it well. It was a tough day. 0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:53.160 But what you've seen now is we've reduced about one 0:27:53.240 --> 0:27:56.280 point four billion dollars in capital in Illinois. 0:27:56.280 --> 0:27:59.480 But more importantly because of this, this. 0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:03.639 Cost of decision, and what really hurts is that the 0:28:03.680 --> 0:28:07.640 sitence of Illinois, their transition to a clean energy stacking 0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:10.360 is going to slow down. And we had to lay 0:28:10.400 --> 0:28:15.120 off nine hundred contractors that's direct contractors, and impacted by 0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:19.520 that was roughly two thousand indirect jobs. Now that's just us, 0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:21.800 so you could imagine the other utilities, the other electric 0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:24.680 utilities and gas utilities had to do the exact same thing. 0:28:25.119 --> 0:28:29.080 But we have a path forward and we continue to 0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:32.080 work with the Commission to right. 0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:35.439 Size this and obviously you guys are looking to do 0:28:35.840 --> 0:28:38.440 you know, switch over to clean energy and other markets 0:28:38.480 --> 0:28:41.440 as well. So how does Illinois maybe give you a 0:28:41.440 --> 0:28:43.920 bit of a blueprint for how to approach these other markets. 0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:47.600 Well, I would tell you that the same day, although 0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:49.680 there was a bad outcome in Illinois, we had a 0:28:49.720 --> 0:28:52.760 solid outcome in Maryland exact same day. So it just 0:28:52.800 --> 0:28:54.600 goes to show you when you have a shared vision 0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:57.440 of how to get there. We don't expect the commissions 0:28:57.440 --> 0:28:59.800 to give us everything we're asking for, but if we 0:28:59.840 --> 0:29:03.160 have a shared vision and a mutual understand the mutual benefits, 0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:05.600 you can do it. And I always say, in my 0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:08.800 golf parlance, you know, Maryland, you know we hit it. 0:29:08.800 --> 0:29:12.200 It was a part, it wasn't a party, and we're 0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:14.720 working on that. So it is a shared vision across 0:29:14.720 --> 0:29:18.080 and each jurisdiction is different because you can imagine in 0:29:18.160 --> 0:29:21.200 Illinois they're saying we're going all electric sooner rather than later, 0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:25.480 Maryland doing the exact same thing. Pennsylvania we like our gas, 0:29:25.960 --> 0:29:28.080 you know, we're saying gas is going to be part 0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:30.600 of that portfolio in Pennsylvania, and it's up to us 0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:33.920 to understand what those jurisdictions want and determine how to 0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:35.440 get there with those mutual benefits. 0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:36.760 So that's how I was going to ask you, how 0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:39.400 do we to the extent that we move this economy 0:29:39.440 --> 0:29:43.240 to a more greener fashion, including on any energy grid. 0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:45.880 Who drives the bus? Is that you guys saying this 0:29:45.960 --> 0:29:48.240 is how we're going to invest our capital in our plant. 0:29:48.320 --> 0:29:50.640 Or is it more of the municipality saying we want 0:29:50.640 --> 0:29:52.200 to go this way, we want to stay gas, we 0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:54.040 want to go green, or is it kind of a 0:29:54.160 --> 0:29:55.040 I guess partnership. 0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:58.120 It has to be a partnership. So you know, by 0:29:58.200 --> 0:30:01.160 us not owning generation, what I can tell you is 0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:04.040 we are brought to the table more often than not 0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:07.320 now because they don't few I have a vested interest. 0:30:07.360 --> 0:30:10.680 By me not owning, no longer owning nuclear, wind or solar, 0:30:11.360 --> 0:30:14.280 my job is delivered to you. So once they understand 0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:16.920 that and really get it, I'm now a trusted partner. 0:30:17.160 --> 0:30:19.760 Now having said that, what I can tell them is 0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:23.160 that here's the cost to achieve what you're trying to achieve. 0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:26.440 Give you an example. In Maryland, we had a jurisdiction 0:30:26.480 --> 0:30:29.840 that wanted to go all electric, and we said, look, 0:30:30.040 --> 0:30:32.959 I'm an electric and gas I'm going to benefit. I 0:30:33.000 --> 0:30:35.280 can do that for you sooner rather than later. But 0:30:35.400 --> 0:30:37.960 this is what it's going to cost the average customer 0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:40.479 in your city if you do that. And when you 0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:42.600 put those costs in front of them, they're like, Okay, 0:30:42.680 --> 0:30:44.640 let's slow it down a little bit, let's be more 0:30:44.640 --> 0:30:47.520 pragmatic about it, and let's do a balanced approach. And 0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:48.440 that's what we're finding. 0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:50.000 Well, that's what I was going to come to you 0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:51.000 next about is that. 0:30:51.240 --> 0:30:52.880 I'm sure a lot of people would you know, if 0:30:52.880 --> 0:30:55.960 given the choice, would probably say, yeah, cleaner energy, let's 0:30:56.000 --> 0:30:56.200 do it. 0:30:56.240 --> 0:30:57.480 But then what does it cost? 0:30:57.640 --> 0:30:59.960 And so are you saying then that this is like 0:31:00.200 --> 0:31:02.480 is it markedly more expensive than gas? And is that 0:31:02.640 --> 0:31:05.479 just because it's a new technology it's going to take 0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:08.520 some time or even once it's further developed, this is 0:31:08.560 --> 0:31:11.160 still a more expensive energy alternative. 0:31:11.440 --> 0:31:13.320 It will be more cast you know, it will be 0:31:13.360 --> 0:31:16.960 more costly in the short run. Why because the infrastructure 0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:21.440 to handle when solar and increased renewables, you have to 0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:25.000 build this infrastructure to do that. So that substation that's 0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:27.840 in your right around the corner from your home, it's 0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:30.480 not equipped to handle that amount of load if you 0:31:30.520 --> 0:31:33.880 were to convert directly to electricity sooner rather than later, 0:31:34.280 --> 0:31:36.479 so you have to build up that infrastructure. But I 0:31:36.520 --> 0:31:39.920 do believe technology is going to catch up and balance 0:31:39.960 --> 0:31:44.280 out the costs. And my responsibility as the CEO is 0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:47.600 to ensure that this transition is done equably. Those of 0:31:47.680 --> 0:31:49.880 us who can afford it, you know, they're not going 0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:52.719 to miss a beat. But what about those communities that 0:31:53.000 --> 0:31:56.440 are struggling to pay their bill today? When you start 0:31:56.480 --> 0:31:59.360 going down this path quicker, they're going to be the 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:00.440 ones most impacted. 0:32:01.280 --> 0:32:06.120 How do you your company Excellent? Do you grow via acquisition? 0:32:06.160 --> 0:32:09.400 And if so, how do you think about acquisition related growth? 0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:11.920 Yes, so when you think of Excellent, Excellent was formed 0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:15.040 in two thousand with the combination of Commonwealth Edison out 0:32:15.040 --> 0:32:18.840 of Chicago and Pico out of Philadelphia. So Excellent formed 0:32:18.920 --> 0:32:23.720 via acquisition. In twenty twelve, we bought Constellation Energy, which 0:32:23.760 --> 0:32:26.960 was Baltimore Gas and Electric. In twenty sixteen we bought 0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:30.360 Pepco Holdings, which was Pepco, d C, del Marva and 0:32:30.400 --> 0:32:34.760 Atlantic City. So we're conglomeration. I think the industry will 0:32:34.760 --> 0:32:37.440 continue to move that way because scale matters when you 0:32:37.560 --> 0:32:41.320 go to costs and affordability. For us, at this point, 0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:44.800 that is not a priority because we're investing over thirty 0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:47.440 five billion dollars over the next few years. That has 0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:48.880 to be our priority right now. 0:32:48.960 --> 0:32:50.520 How do you think about it? I'm sorry, I'm just 0:32:50.560 --> 0:32:54.760 looking at the FA function, my financial analysis function, free 0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:57.760 cash flow. Is it all go to the dividend? And 0:32:57.880 --> 0:33:00.680 or do you say, yeah, you have a four percent 0:33:00.680 --> 0:33:02.280 dividend field a little bit high than a four percent 0:33:02.280 --> 0:33:04.840 dividend yield. How do you balance the dividend versus maybe 0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:06.240 using cash for acquisitions. 0:33:06.320 --> 0:33:08.760 Yeah, we have a rule of thumb that we try 0:33:08.760 --> 0:33:12.800 to target sixty percent dividend payout with earnings. So we 0:33:12.880 --> 0:33:16.440 target that and we look at issuing equity as well 0:33:16.560 --> 0:33:19.920 to our capital investment. Our equity plan is forty percent 0:33:20.520 --> 0:33:23.040 of our capital investment. That's what we rolled out on 0:33:23.080 --> 0:33:25.480 our earnings call. So we're going to issue about one 0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:28.520 point two billion dollars of equity over our LRP to 0:33:28.680 --> 0:33:31.680 fund that dually a long range plan. I'm sorry, Yes, 0:33:31.840 --> 0:33:34.680 So twenty twenty four through twenty twenty seven, we're going 0:33:34.720 --> 0:33:37.720 to invest thirty five billion, and that's about three point 0:33:37.760 --> 0:33:40.120 seven million in new capital, and we're going to fund 0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:43.360 that forty percent with new equity. So we balance that 0:33:43.960 --> 0:33:47.920 and also the earnings. You know, our debt ratio is 0:33:47.640 --> 0:33:50.320 on the lowest in the industry, our CFO to debts, 0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:52.520 So those are all the things we look to to 0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:53.960 fund opportunities. 0:33:54.120 --> 0:33:55.800 Yeah, it looks like you guys just had a bond 0:33:55.840 --> 0:34:00.000 offering earlier this week almost two billion dollars, so that helps, 0:34:00.320 --> 0:34:02.200 but that's mostly refinancing data. 0:34:02.280 --> 0:34:05.000 Looks like it was and it was the best spreads 0:34:05.040 --> 0:34:08.680 we've received in the past fifteen years. So people understand 0:34:08.680 --> 0:34:10.480 the value proposition of Excellon. 0:34:10.760 --> 0:34:13.560 Okay, real quick, thirty seconds. You're based in Chicago, right, Yes, 0:34:14.000 --> 0:34:14.719 Chicago today? 0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:19.400 How Chicago today? Chicago. It's a city that's struggling, like 0:34:19.440 --> 0:34:21.960 many urban cities. But I always tell people it's one 0:34:22.000 --> 0:34:27.120 of the greatest cities from June to October. But it is. 0:34:27.160 --> 0:34:29.920 It's a wonderful city and it's vibrant and that's that. 0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:31.600 And I tell you, you know, when we get to 0:34:31.640 --> 0:34:34.120 serve some of the best cities in the nation and 0:34:34.520 --> 0:34:35.920 we are community partner. 0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:38.120 So all right, Calvin, thank you so much for Jordan's 0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:40.520 really appreciate it. Calvin Butler, here's the CEO of Excellon. 0:34:41.200 --> 0:34:43.640 E XCA is a ticcker to put into your Bloomberg 0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:46.760 terminal there, joining us here in a Bloomberg Interactive broker studio. 0:34:46.800 --> 0:34:49.959 They recently reported some earnings. They were in the market, 0:34:49.960 --> 0:34:52.080 as Molly was saying, with a bond offering this week. 0:34:52.120 --> 0:34:55.120 So busy times for the good folks at Excellent based 0:34:55.160 --> 0:34:57.520 in Chicago, one of my all time favorite cities. 0:34:59.000 --> 0:35:02.920 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:06.520 weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and Android 0:35:06.520 --> 0:35:09.320 Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen 0:35:09.440 --> 0:35:12.520 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. 0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:16.600 Just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:19.440 So let's get the ethera wrong, Aanathan, because she is 0:35:19.480 --> 0:35:21.400 the media analyst and there's a lot going on in 0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:24.680 the media space. Warner Brothers Discoveries is one of those 0:35:24.680 --> 0:35:27.680 companies that was put together by Warner Brothers merger with 0:35:27.920 --> 0:35:32.200 Discovery Communications. Everybody felt like, Okay, now this company's got 0:35:32.600 --> 0:35:35.360 some scale, some size, and they could make that transition 0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:38.239 into streaming. Well, their latest results came out and it's 0:35:38.239 --> 0:35:40.960 just kind of confirming not so fast it stocks down 0:35:41.000 --> 0:35:44.399 eleven percent today, down twenty five percent year to date, 0:35:44.440 --> 0:35:47.400 down forty six percent on a trailing twelve month basis 0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:50.680 really really tough out there for the traditional media companies. KEITHA. 0:35:50.760 --> 0:35:53.840 Rong Anathan joins us. She's a media anols for Bloomberg Intelligence. ETHA. 0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:56.279 What you take away or what does the market not 0:35:56.520 --> 0:35:59.960 like about what they heard from their conference call? 0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:03.080 Yeah, really really tough, Paul. I mean it's it's lower 0:36:03.200 --> 0:36:06.799 earnings and you know, earnings pressure that's kind of dominating 0:36:06.840 --> 0:36:10.839 the whole narrative for Warner Brothers Discovery. So you know, 0:36:10.920 --> 0:36:14.720 their EBITDA for twenty twenty three came in way below guidance. 0:36:14.760 --> 0:36:16.719 They had guided to somewhere between ten and a half 0:36:16.800 --> 0:36:18.880 to eleven billion dollars in EBITDA. It actually came in 0:36:18.920 --> 0:36:21.560 at ten point two billion. And I think what's worse 0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:24.120 and what kind of really spooked investors was there was 0:36:24.200 --> 0:36:28.239 absolutely no guidance whatsoever for twenty twenty four, a kind 0:36:28.280 --> 0:36:31.040 of you know suggesting, I mean, consensus had twenty twenty 0:36:31.040 --> 0:36:32.799 four estimates at about ten and a half billion. I 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:35.239 think it's going to be way below ten billion. And 0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:36.840 if you just kind of look at the commentary for 0:36:37.000 --> 0:36:39.960 the TV networks business, remember more than fifty percent of 0:36:40.000 --> 0:36:42.680 their revenue comes from their TV networks business, you know, 0:36:42.719 --> 0:36:48.760 networks like TNTTBS. Again, advertising is really in the doll drums, 0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:52.439 So you know, nothing to really cheer about right now. 0:36:52.600 --> 0:36:55.160 How much of this GITA is really just coming out 0:36:55.160 --> 0:36:57.839 of those Hollywood strikes last year, just you know, it's 0:36:57.840 --> 0:36:59.560 going to take a little bit of time or there's 0:36:59.560 --> 0:37:02.279 really more of a longer term issue at play here. 0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:06.239 The Hollywood strikes, Molly definitely had a huge impact and 0:37:06.320 --> 0:37:09.719 they weighed that. Those strikes definitely weighed on ebitdah. So 0:37:09.719 --> 0:37:11.200 so the numbers that we kind of talked about, the 0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:13.759 ten point two billion versus eleven billion, a lot of 0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:16.480 that was from the Hollywood strikes. The flip side was 0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:19.760 the Hollywood strikes did have a positive effect on free 0:37:19.800 --> 0:37:22.800 cash flow, so you know, the free casual numbers of 0:37:22.880 --> 0:37:25.879 this company throughout were obviously huge. But again that's going 0:37:25.920 --> 0:37:29.000 to reverse once content production restarts. But I think you know, 0:37:29.080 --> 0:37:31.960 it's not just the content pipeline, right We're looking at 0:37:32.040 --> 0:37:35.719 a business model that is very, very challenged right now 0:37:35.760 --> 0:37:38.279 because of cord cutting. You know, you look at a 0:37:38.280 --> 0:37:41.319 PATV ecosystem that has lost about thirty percent of its 0:37:41.440 --> 0:37:45.480 base and that is really having some huge ramifications for 0:37:45.560 --> 0:37:48.200 this company. So, you know, we spoke about fifty percent 0:37:48.200 --> 0:37:50.920 of its revenue coming from the TV networks, ninety percent 0:37:50.960 --> 0:37:54.200 of its EBITDAH comes from that TV network's business. So 0:37:54.480 --> 0:37:57.600 we're seeing a steady ten to fifteen percent decline every 0:37:57.680 --> 0:38:01.040 year because of cord cutting, because of pressures, and that's 0:38:01.080 --> 0:38:02.360 not going to go away. 0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:05.719 All right, Keitha. We're looking waiting for the President. Biden 0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:08.200 is about to speak in Washington, DC, so we may 0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:12.040 have to cut away from that. So Keitha, say, we 0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:15.000 have President Bond walking up to the lectern, I believe, 0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:17.279 So we'll have to see how this plays up down 0:38:17.280 --> 0:38:20.719 in Washington, DC, some comments from the President, So we'll 0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:22.640 have to wait and see how that plays out. KEITHA, 0:38:22.719 --> 0:38:25.400 Real quick is a merger between Warner Brothers Discovery and 0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:28.680 Paramount something that could happen, should happen. It seems like 0:38:28.719 --> 0:38:32.320 two relatively weak companies, two relatively levered balance sheets. 0:38:33.080 --> 0:38:35.840 Yeah, Paul, I mean there is a lot of strategic rationale, 0:38:36.239 --> 0:38:38.560 you know, and Warner Brothers Discovery has been really good 0:38:38.560 --> 0:38:41.000 at extracting synergies. They got out almost four and a 0:38:41.040 --> 0:38:43.360 half five billion dollars from just that combination of Warner 0:38:43.400 --> 0:38:45.880 and Discovery, so they obviously could do that again with Paramount. 0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:48.080 The thing is, I just don't think the market has 0:38:48.200 --> 0:38:50.880 any appetite for more debt. I mean, we have Warner 0:38:50.920 --> 0:38:53.120 Brothers with forty five billion dollars in dead we have 0:38:53.160 --> 0:38:56.040 Paramount with about sixteen billion. I don't think investors will 0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:56.359 like it. 0:38:57.320 --> 0:38:58.120 And let's look at it. 0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:01.520 I mean, let the subscriber here looks like those actually 0:39:01.560 --> 0:39:05.040 came in above analyst estimates. But I mean, is that 0:39:05.280 --> 0:39:07.200 I feel like that's normally something that would drive a 0:39:07.200 --> 0:39:09.560 bit more optimism here. But Lake, you said, everything else 0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:12.520 across the board is just like really just so negative. 0:39:13.400 --> 0:39:16.360 Yeah, I mean streaming subscribers. Yes, that used to be 0:39:16.440 --> 0:39:19.200 a metric that investors used to kind of get excited about. 0:39:19.400 --> 0:39:22.719 Not any more. We're really looking more for profitability. And 0:39:22.760 --> 0:39:24.239 at the end of the day, yeah, they could add 0:39:24.239 --> 0:39:26.839 you know, a million, two million, even three million subscribers, 0:39:26.880 --> 0:39:29.040 but it's really not going to move the needle. I mean, yes, 0:39:29.120 --> 0:39:31.400 you have them at about ninety seven million subscribers for 0:39:31.440 --> 0:39:34.040 their max platform, but it's still a very far cry 0:39:34.120 --> 0:39:36.520 from Netflix, which has two hundred and sixty million from 0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:39.040 Amazon Prime, which again has maybe about two hundred million, 0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:40.719 from Disney, which has one hundred and fifty million. So 0:39:40.719 --> 0:39:43.360 they will always kind of be that tier two player. 0:39:44.560 --> 0:39:46.160 And so then it's going to come down to, Okay, 0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:48.879 what is their place going to be in this new 0:39:48.880 --> 0:39:51.279 streaming world? And we're still kind of uncertain about that. 0:39:52.040 --> 0:39:54.320 Hey, keith it Tom Keene asked me a good question 0:39:54.400 --> 0:39:57.719 this morning. He noted, reminded me that John Malone is 0:39:57.760 --> 0:40:01.279 a big, big owner of Warner Brothers Discovery, and he 0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:03.920 doesn't have a whole lot of patients. What do you 0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:07.040 think his intentions are with Warner Brothers Discovery? Is David 0:40:07.120 --> 0:40:09.880 Zaslov the CEO? Is his job in jeopardy? Do you 0:40:09.880 --> 0:40:12.640 expect John Malone to exert some pressure on this company 0:40:12.680 --> 0:40:15.360 to enhance shareholder value? How do you think that dynamic 0:40:15.440 --> 0:40:16.000 might play out? 0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:20.000 I think twenty twenty four Paul is definitely going to 0:40:20.040 --> 0:40:22.719 be a difficulty or for media all across the board. 0:40:22.760 --> 0:40:25.360 That's it. They do have certain things in place. So 0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:28.560 they do have this new Skinny sports app that they're 0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:31.239 working with both Disney and Fox that's going to come 0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:33.840 out in the fall. So you know, that's a positive. 0:40:34.000 --> 0:40:37.000 I really don't know what kind of impact it's going 0:40:37.000 --> 0:40:38.960 to have on earnings just yet, but they are definitely 0:40:38.960 --> 0:40:42.480 trying to hedge their bets. But going into twenty twenty five, 0:40:42.480 --> 0:40:44.920 I mean they're still talking about you know, streaming profitability 0:40:44.920 --> 0:40:48.040 and things like that. Again, I'm not sure whether it's 0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:52.000 enough to kind of offset the linear TV pressures. So 0:40:52.520 --> 0:40:55.279 I'm not sure what kind of pressure John Malone is 0:40:55.320 --> 0:40:57.640 going to be exerting on them. But I don't necessarily 0:40:57.640 --> 0:41:00.239 see anything major happening at least in twenty two twenty 0:41:00.280 --> 0:41:02.239 four from both an m and A perspective or from 0:41:02.239 --> 0:41:04.920 a financial perspective. Right now, it's all about you know, 0:41:05.120 --> 0:41:09.200 organic opportunities for WBT, So it's there's really no major 0:41:09.280 --> 0:41:11.120 catalyst as far as I can see. 0:41:11.360 --> 0:41:13.840 Yeah, Well, my good friend Laura Martin, she's meeting anost 0:41:13.880 --> 0:41:15.560 over and need him and company, and she's one of 0:41:15.600 --> 0:41:17.960 the top adamsts out there, a lot of experience. She's 0:41:18.040 --> 0:41:20.840 keeping her hold on this company. She says, you know, 0:41:20.840 --> 0:41:22.799 twenty twenty four is an investment year, not a free 0:41:22.800 --> 0:41:26.080 cash flow growth year, so she's waiting for revenue growth 0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:28.480 to come, which might be might be next year, So 0:41:28.640 --> 0:41:30.720 she's staying on the sidelines at least. 0:41:31.640 --> 0:41:34.360 You know, when I see an earnings report like this, Githa, 0:41:34.719 --> 0:41:37.400 when you see like something that's like free cash flow 0:41:37.520 --> 0:41:40.960 was like so overwhelmingly positive and everything else not so great, 0:41:41.040 --> 0:41:43.560 I feel like this is like case in point of 0:41:43.600 --> 0:41:47.160 like why bondholders and shareholders care about different things. So 0:41:47.320 --> 0:41:49.719 is there gonna is this maybe something where if you're 0:41:50.239 --> 0:41:52.719 a debt holder of Warner Bros. Discovery today, you're just like, 0:41:53.080 --> 0:41:55.799 praise be, They're gonna pray down, They're gonna pay down debt. 0:41:56.040 --> 0:41:58.400 This is a great deal leveraging story, or like you 0:41:58.440 --> 0:41:59.360 can't even take. 0:41:59.200 --> 0:42:00.000 That kind of an angle. 0:42:00.000 --> 0:42:02.680 Well, it is a good deal leveraging story, and they've 0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:04.399 done a great job. I mean, they paid down more 0:42:04.400 --> 0:42:07.879 than five billion dollars in debt Molley through twenty twenty three. 0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:10.480 But then you know, they had some pretty ambitious leverage targets. 0:42:10.520 --> 0:42:13.200 So we ended twenty twenty three at three three point 0:42:13.280 --> 0:42:15.400 nine x. You know, their goal was to get to 0:42:15.400 --> 0:42:17.800 a two and a half to three times leverage ratio 0:42:17.800 --> 0:42:19.840 by the end of twenty twenty four. They're obviously not 0:42:20.000 --> 0:42:22.200 going to get there. I think, you know the way 0:42:22.200 --> 0:42:24.080 that bondholders are going to look at. This is obviously 0:42:24.080 --> 0:42:26.640 the EBITDA guidance or the lack of guidance kind of 0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:29.800 speaks volumes at this point. You know, the earnings pressure 0:42:29.840 --> 0:42:32.359 is just tremendous right now for this company. I think 0:42:32.400 --> 0:42:35.200 once we get to below three times a leverage ratio, 0:42:35.320 --> 0:42:37.920 I think that's when the stock will really kind of 0:42:37.920 --> 0:42:39.879 start to work, both on the equity side as well 0:42:39.880 --> 0:42:41.160 as on the credit side. 0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:43.040 All Right, gith thanks so much for joining us. Well, 0:42:43.040 --> 0:42:45.480 we appreciate it. Eithan wrong Andothan. She covers all the 0:42:45.480 --> 0:42:49.520 media industry, all the companies there for Bloomberg Intelligence really 0:42:49.600 --> 0:42:51.359 leads our effort there, and we appreciate getting a few 0:42:51.360 --> 0:42:54.200 minutes over time, just a real time of transition in 0:42:54.239 --> 0:42:58.000 the media space here as the industry tries to transition 0:42:58.080 --> 0:43:00.600 from what was the traditional media model where you bundled 0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:02.680 everything up in a cable package and you paid your 0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:04.560 eighty year one hundred bucks a month and everybody made 0:43:04.560 --> 0:43:07.680 money all throughout the ecosystem. That was a very very 0:43:07.719 --> 0:43:11.040 good business for shareholders and for bondholders. Now let's transition 0:43:11.080 --> 0:43:15.120 to streaming. The economics are uncertain at best, and investors 0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:16.560 are just saying I'm going to wait on the sidelines 0:43:16.560 --> 0:43:17.239 before we get back. 0:43:17.480 --> 0:43:19.680 Well maybe you know, NASA shoot my own horn. 0:43:19.760 --> 0:43:21.480 But I did just get cable for the first time 0:43:21.520 --> 0:43:24.040 in my life really in my new apartment. It's part 0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:26.680 of our maintenance fees that we get a deal with RCN. 0:43:26.840 --> 0:43:29.160 So maybe I'll be helping them in why because you're 0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:34.280 a what spectrum cable just like millennial? Yeah that's the label. 0:43:34.360 --> 0:43:37.520 Yes, okay, so wow, I mean A'm millennial getting into 0:43:37.520 --> 0:43:40.480 the pad ecosyst that that is a It's a story 0:43:40.480 --> 0:43:41.200 in and of itself. 0:43:41.960 --> 0:43:46.480 This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on Apples, Spotify, 0:43:46.680 --> 0:43:49.600 and anywhere else you will get your podcasts. Listen live 0:43:49.680 --> 0:43:53.280 each weekday ten am to noon Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 0:43:53.400 --> 0:43:56.799 the iHeart Radio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. 0:43:56.920 --> 0:43:59.920 You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube 0:44:00.160 --> 0:44:01.839 and always on the Bloomberg Train.