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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Danny and Samantha, and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I've never told to your protection of I heart radio

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Speaker 1: and how stuff works. So trigger warning right off the

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Speaker 1: bat for this one. Um, we're talking about bisexuality to day,

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Speaker 1: and along with that, we are going to talk about

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Speaker 1: some some aspects of sexual assaults, suicidality, mental health issues,

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Speaker 1: and domestic violence. Right and um, of course it's now

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Speaker 1: no longer Pride Month, but I'm going to go ahead

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Speaker 1: and celebrate Pride Year. Can we do that? There we go? Um,

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Speaker 1: so happy Pride Year everyone anyway, UM, just coming in.

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Speaker 1: So in our last episode on sexuality, I incorrectly stated

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Speaker 1: from a source the binary definition, which brought on several

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Speaker 1: reactions on both our emails of leave and our social

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Speaker 1: media and I wanted to make sure that we came

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Speaker 1: back and addressed it because I do not want to

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Speaker 1: be a part of the biphobic culture and I want

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Speaker 1: to celebrate everything that has to do with loving two people.

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Speaker 1: That's just kind of the end of statement. And I

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Speaker 1: was horrified. I was like, I don't, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I just did. Um. And of course we have

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Speaker 1: had in past hosts do episodes and they were very good.

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Speaker 1: They were very good, and I came and kind of

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Speaker 1: like kind of pounced on that in one sentence, and

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Speaker 1: so I was like, Annie, we gotta make it clear

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Speaker 1: that we want to make sure we educate because I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be part of the problem. And I

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Speaker 1: also want to say on air that I apologize for

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Speaker 1: the incorrect statement. Um. And so we came together, and

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Speaker 1: I've had so many different reactions, like I said on

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Speaker 1: social media, and UM, I wanted to make sure that

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Speaker 1: I got to talk to them. And with that I

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Speaker 1: didn't meet or actually, I'll say, meat is that meat

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Speaker 1: if I don't make a really long discussion about this

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Speaker 1: other day, because the meat feels kind of not real.

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Speaker 1: But I want to be like friends with everybody, Like

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Speaker 1: I've talked to you now and we've bonded over a

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Speaker 1: few things. So I was gonna say, I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's real. I just it also has an I think

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Speaker 1: it's dismissed. It sounds funny when I type thanks to

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Speaker 1: meet you, hemate you. UM, So I'll just say I

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Speaker 1: E met yes, um, several people that had responded to

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Speaker 1: that episode, and we have a few people that I

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Speaker 1: did talk with on this episode and we interviewed several

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Speaker 1: people who specialize in a specific field that includes the

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Speaker 1: LGBTQ community, as specifically to buy community. UM and so

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Speaker 1: from the very beginning, I want you to know this

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Speaker 1: is my man culpa to that statement. Yes and I, um,

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Speaker 1: I'm also sorry because I was bad co host. I

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Speaker 1: should have caught it and I didn't. Um and yeah,

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Speaker 1: just I apologize for any damage or confusion we've caused.

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Speaker 1: But there's already a lot out there. We don't want

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Speaker 1: to add to it. Um. So I'm really thrilled that

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Speaker 1: we have everyone that we got to talk to you

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Speaker 1: to day. Sometimes I'm always I'm amazed that people agreed

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Speaker 1: to talk to her. We were so cool, all right.

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Speaker 1: I think several of our episodes like can we be friends? Yes? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Um so yeah, this has been this episode has been

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Speaker 1: a long time coming. Um. We did touch on it

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Speaker 1: in the episode Bridget and I did on pan sexuality

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Speaker 1: and Kristin Caroline pasco host, they did an episode on it.

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Speaker 1: Um and yeah, we had so many good conversations. This

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Speaker 1: is going to be a two parter. Everybody was delightful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's too much. We couldn't say. I just couldn't say no,

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Speaker 1: I want to keep you and you and you keep

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Speaker 1: going and um. One of our interviewees, uh Dr TAngelo Roberts. UM,

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Speaker 1: she used a term that I've never heard before, called

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Speaker 1: me search and she's going to go into that later.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes I feel like I'm doing that on this show,

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Speaker 1: like right, oh, this is me, sir, because UM, for

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Speaker 1: people who don't know, for a long time, I did

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Speaker 1: identify as bisexual. UM, and now thanks to this podcast,

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Speaker 1: I believe I have arrived at by romantic a sexual.

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Speaker 1: So thanks to everybody who wrote in about it, really

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Speaker 1: appreciate you. Feel like being able to define it gives

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Speaker 1: you a little more I don't know what the word is.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel more complete or how do you feel

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Speaker 1: about defining to have an actual definition of it. I

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Speaker 1: feel more clarity around things that I have done in

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Speaker 1: my life and less confusion, and especially looking back around

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Speaker 1: conversations I had with friends when I was in high

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Speaker 1: school and college and everybody was so like into wanting

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Speaker 1: to have sex or having sex and I just was

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Speaker 1: pretending like going along with it and didn't feel it.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time I did experience some kind

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Speaker 1: of like attraction UM to multiple genders, so I couldn't

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Speaker 1: figure it out. I us and for anyone who's UM wondering.

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Speaker 1: For very brief definition, romantic attraction usually involves an emotional

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Speaker 1: and or physical attraction UM, which is often tied to

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Speaker 1: sexual attraction but not always sexual attraction is a desire

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Speaker 1: for sexual contact and sexual relationship, and some people feel both,

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Speaker 1: some people feel neither, Some people feel one or the other.

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Speaker 1: It might vary based on the person, It might vary

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Speaker 1: based on what phasier and in your life. UM, so

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Speaker 1: it is I feel mostly clarity and a story I

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Speaker 1: brought up in a lot of these interviews, and I

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Speaker 1: was asking questions is how a friend and I UM

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago were talking about how we

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Speaker 1: didn't know by was a thing when we were growing up,

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Speaker 1: and we were just confused that we liked both Molder

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Speaker 1: and Scully on the show The X Files, and almost

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Speaker 1: everyone we interviewed was like, yes, it made my nerd

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Speaker 1: heart grow ten sizes. UM. There just wasn't awareness around it,

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Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways that is still problem.

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Speaker 1: Right as I got older and I realized I was

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Speaker 1: attracted to more than one gender, I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: stay it out loud because I felt like I could

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Speaker 1: pass as straight, and then I had access to heterosexual privilege,

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Speaker 1: and I had no right saying that I was in

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Speaker 1: any way a part of the LGBTQ plus community. And

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Speaker 1: this is something I still struggle with, and I have

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Speaker 1: definitely just kind of been strugged off before as either

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Speaker 1: you're being experimental or one day you'll realize you're a

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Speaker 1: lesbian or something. Right, um And I'm not aloning that,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get into that more later as well. Um

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Speaker 1: And I will say when I was in high school,

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Speaker 1: I was I was well liked, but I was seeing

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Speaker 1: as weird. There were a lot of rumors about me.

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Speaker 1: Um So when I started displaying attraction to more than

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Speaker 1: one gender, people would sort of be like, well, that's

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Speaker 1: so Danny being Annie. She's a little strange. Um, she's

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Speaker 1: like that voice, she's that's because that's how they are

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Speaker 1: in my head that I like to remember them. She's

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Speaker 1: just looking for a thrill, she's just trying to be interesting.

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Speaker 1: And I did internalize a lot of that. Um So,

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Speaker 1: that is something that in my own honestly very limited

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Speaker 1: experience growing up in a small town, I did see.

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Speaker 1: So uh, but that's enough about never and us, thank you.

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Speaker 1: You can have a lot of ground to cover, right,

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Speaker 1: So let's get into our interviews and we'll start with

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Speaker 1: some intros and let them talk about some of the

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Speaker 1: badass stuff they're doing. Him. My name is Dr TAngelo Roberts.

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Speaker 1: I used she her her pronouns. I am an assistant

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Speaker 1: professor of Child Prink Psychology at Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo, Michigan. UM.

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Speaker 1: I have a background in child prink psychology. UM I

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Speaker 1: do research on LGBT population, specifically with bisexuality and LGBT

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Speaker 1: people of color, and clinical works similarly with LGBT population

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Speaker 1: and adolescence. So I'm Diana Adams and I have been

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Speaker 1: a bisexuality activist for years. I'm also an activist as

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Speaker 1: a polyamorous person. And I have a nonprofit of which

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Speaker 1: i'm executive director, Chosen Family Law Center, that supports people

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Speaker 1: who are LGBT q I as well as people who

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Speaker 1: are polyamorous and an alternative family structures such as platonic

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Speaker 1: co parenting. And I have a peak law firm UM

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Speaker 1: that serves private clients. UM based in New York City,

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Speaker 1: and I'm excited to be on to speak about some

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Speaker 1: of the issues of being bisexuality in the LGBTQ commit continuum.

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Speaker 1: I am Harry Greensmith. I am the senior Research analyst

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Speaker 1: of Political Research Associates, where I monitor the anti lgbt

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Speaker 1: Q I right here in the US and abroad. And

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Speaker 1: I'm also a volunteer because the attorney for bisexual and

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Speaker 1: tense sexual communities. So I have a personal label and

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Speaker 1: a community label. My personal label was queer because I

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Speaker 1: think UM identify and I've heard other folks identify UM

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Speaker 1: with using it as a way to say quickly to

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Speaker 1: someone I am not is this gender heterosexual person. You

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Speaker 1: may not know exactly how my queerness manifest but I'm

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Speaker 1: not assist straight person UM. And for me personally, queerness

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Speaker 1: as I struggle kind of to identify what exactly my

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Speaker 1: gender identity is UM, as I struggled to deal with

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Speaker 1: by phobia, internalized by phobia, Queer for me is a

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Speaker 1: way in my heart to maintain my connection to my

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Speaker 1: communities as my labels and my gender identity are influx UM.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, bisexual is my community label because

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Speaker 1: those are the people who I march with in pride.

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Speaker 1: Those are the people who whose pins I wear. Those

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Speaker 1: are my best the this you know, most important and

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Speaker 1: powerful relationships in the queer community at large, the people

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Speaker 1: who might share the most experiences with of buy invisibility

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Speaker 1: and virat er um from game, lesbian and straight people. UM.

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Speaker 1: And so I will always be the community that I'm

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Speaker 1: allied with. But I don't if I as a queer

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Speaker 1: person UM. And I use that to mean I'm not

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Speaker 1: straight and stiff. I am Tanya Israel. I'm a professor

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Speaker 1: of tombling, clinical and school psychology at the University of California,

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Speaker 1: Santa Barbara, and I UM do a lot of work

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Speaker 1: around bisexuality. I've been doing research on how to best

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Speaker 1: help LGBTQ people UM to thrive and with their potential. UM.

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Speaker 1: I've been doing that for over twenty years now, UM,

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Speaker 1: and the b part of it was a piece of it,

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Speaker 1: but it hadn't been so much the focus until uh

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Speaker 1: three years ago. I was reading this book about public

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Speaker 1: speaking and it was about how to give a TED talk,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, Oh, I know what I would

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Speaker 1: want to give a TED talk about. And so that

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Speaker 1: led me down this path of actually giving a talk

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Speaker 1: at TED x C L a on bisexuality and beyond.

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Speaker 1: I had the full you know concept that that I

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Speaker 1: was that I was sharing. And but then once I

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Speaker 1: did that and it was up on YouTube, it was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: now I am Tanya Israel International Expert on bisexuality. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So so suddenly, you know, people are asking me to

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Speaker 1: come and give talks and you know, do all these

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Speaker 1: things throughout bisexuality. I was like, this is great. I

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Speaker 1: love doing this. I you know, got invited to you know,

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Speaker 1: be part of a gathering of a bunch of researchers

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Speaker 1: about who are doing work on bisexual health. UM. I

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Speaker 1: got invited to um UH White House Bisexual Community Policy

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Speaker 1: Forum UM and there were two of those that happened

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Speaker 1: in the previous administration UM and UH and and then

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Speaker 1: recently I taught a course on bisexuality at UCSB and

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Speaker 1: so so it's just become much more of a focus

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Speaker 1: of what I'm doing, including my research, my teaching, my activism. UM.

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Speaker 1: When I started doing all of these things around bisexuality

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Speaker 1: all over the country, I was feeling in such by

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Speaker 1: community and then I was like, I have to bring

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Speaker 1: that back home. So then I I started a bisexual

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Speaker 1: discussion group in uh in Santa Barbara, where I live,

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Speaker 1: and that's been going on for a couple of years. Now.

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Speaker 1: I'm part of a statewide brant on lgbt Q mental

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Speaker 1: health where I'm specifically focusing on like supporting bisexual mental health.

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Speaker 1: So it's really exciting for me that I've been able

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Speaker 1: to uh to to do a lot more of this

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Speaker 1: because I feel like it's such an important um part

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Speaker 1: of the LGBTQ community, and also, by the way, I'm bisexual,

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Speaker 1: as well. We tend to assume people are the sexual

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Speaker 1: orientation depending on the sex of whatever partner they are with,

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Speaker 1: if they're gay or a straight or lesbian. One article

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Speaker 1: I found on medium described being by as being Schrodinger's cat,

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Speaker 1: appearing either straight or gay when observed, but being both

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Speaker 1: at once when unobserved. Tanya and she said, we could

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Speaker 1: call her that even though she's a doctor, and if

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Speaker 1: I was a doctor, i'd doctor all the time. I

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Speaker 1: like to turn this, I will not call you anything

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Speaker 1: about doctor. She has found an amazing way of dealing

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Speaker 1: with this head on. So you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: things for people who are bisexual is that you have

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Speaker 1: to come out constantly, because you know, there's not a

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Speaker 1: way that people can tell you by the gender of

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Speaker 1: your partner or your history or anything like that you're

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Speaker 1: bisexual specifically. So I have these business cards that say

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Speaker 1: um Tanya israel Um biracial age American, bisexual, Jewish, Buddhist feminist.

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Speaker 1: So I become like like a professional bisexual. I would say,

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Speaker 1: like I am out there everywhere that I am, like,

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Speaker 1: I am representing bisexuality really loudly and loudly because part

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Speaker 1: of it is I feel fine being allowed and found

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Speaker 1: bisexual and not everybody does, and so I feel like

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Speaker 1: that's fine. I'm happy to do this and be out

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Speaker 1: there for all of us. Um. I think that the

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Speaker 1: bisexual community is really diverse, and and I embrace like,

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Speaker 1: like the whole bisexual communities, people who are out, people

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Speaker 1: who aren't out, people who are you know, in relationship

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Speaker 1: with people of whatever gender, people who aren't in relationship,

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Speaker 1: people who don't want to be activists and don't even

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Speaker 1: want to you know, people to know, like like they're

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Speaker 1: all part of bisexual community. And I'm like, Okay, my

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Speaker 1: my role in all of this is to just be

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Speaker 1: like the joyful um you know out there bisexual person.

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Speaker 1: So now you've met our amazing panels, let's get started

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Speaker 1: with a baseline definition. Pretty much all of our interviewees

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Speaker 1: brought up the definition of Robin Oaks. Here's heron I

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Speaker 1: use um Robin Oakes's definition. Robin is a form mother

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Speaker 1: of the community. She has been an advocate for forty years.

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Speaker 1: She runs the Boston by Women's Network here in Boston

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Speaker 1: and is also um the editor of the By Women's Quarterly,

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Speaker 1: which is a quarterly newsletter that comes out the only

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Speaker 1: news letter in the world focused on by women and

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Speaker 1: I encourage everyone to submit. Robin defines bi sexuality as

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Speaker 1: having the potential to be attracted to people of more

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Speaker 1: than one gender. UM. Doesn't matter, the degree doesn't matter,

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Speaker 1: the intensity doesn't matter, the time frame UM. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter if the attraction is romantic or sexual, or aesthetic

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Speaker 1: or um other variations on attraction. UM. As long as

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Speaker 1: you have the potential to be attracted to people into

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Speaker 1: more than one gender, UM, you are. You can call

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Speaker 1: yourself bisexual. There you go. For some folks, there is

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Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety around the buy in bisexual that

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Speaker 1: it supports the gender binary and along with that, some

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Speaker 1: confusion around the difference between pen and by, like we

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Speaker 1: were talking about earlier, we asked our interviewees about this.

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Speaker 1: I got linked with you through Twitter because of my

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Speaker 1: miss misstep and miss speaking in the previous podcasts of sexuality,

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Speaker 1: which was obviously very outdated and very too like one

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Speaker 1: sided obviously, and you had reached out. It's saying, these

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Speaker 1: are the things that are incorrect, let's talk. And I

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Speaker 1: love that. And one of the things that we were

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Speaker 1: talking about you were kind of linking us to was

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Speaker 1: the fact that this is a misconception when I was

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Speaker 1: speaking about two genders, mainly because it obviously is bigger

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Speaker 1: than that. Also it was excluding let hands gender world

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Speaker 1: and people of community as well, and that was very

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Speaker 1: very telling. I was like, oh my goodness, she's right

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Speaker 1: and I want to know more about it. So if

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Speaker 1: you don't mind, can you speak to um what exactly

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Speaker 1: is the definition of bisexuality? And then just some of

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Speaker 1: the things all around that. Absolutely, and I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: you being willing to listen. I think these issues are

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Speaker 1: really complicated and the LGBTQ community is evolving really quickly,

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Speaker 1: which is exciting, but sometimes it can be hard for

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Speaker 1: people even in the community to keep up, so thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for being willing to listen. The current

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Speaker 1: definition of bisexuality for many people in the BUY community

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Speaker 1: is being sexually attracted and romantically attracted, not exclusively to

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Speaker 1: people of one gender. So allowing for the possibility of that,

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Speaker 1: the BUY is in binary being attracted to people UM

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Speaker 1: who are of your sexual gender and people of the

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Speaker 1: whole other set of potential sexism genders UM. And so

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Speaker 1: really it takes a way that male female binary UM

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Speaker 1: and allows attraction to people who are not just gender,

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Speaker 1: but people who are transgender as well. And that's an

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Speaker 1: identity and a definition which has evolved over time as

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Speaker 1: we've understood more and included an embrace the transgender community

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Speaker 1: more actively. And I think that it's really common in

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Speaker 1: the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender community for a lot of

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Speaker 1: emphasis to be placed on same sex couples, and both

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Speaker 1: bisexual community and transgender community can sometimes feel a bit

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Speaker 1: left out of some of the conversations about UM these issues,

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Speaker 1: which often mostly focus on lesbian or gay couples. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's really important that as by people we

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Speaker 1: have solidarity with transgender people and there are some people

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Speaker 1: who identify as pan sexual, and people talk sometimes about

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Speaker 1: the definition of bisexuality versus pan sexuality, and pan sexuality

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Speaker 1: is explicitly trying to make very clear in its wording

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Speaker 1: with with the prefix pan that it includes multiple potential genders,

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Speaker 1: which would include people who are transgender, people who are

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Speaker 1: intersex potentially, and it's I think intended to make that

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Speaker 1: very clear. But I think it's actually really important for

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Speaker 1: us to hang onto the word bisexual as well. I

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Speaker 1: support people in choosing whichever word makes the most sense

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Speaker 1: to them, but bisexual feels important to me because that's

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Speaker 1: our legal and medical designation, and we need to really

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Speaker 1: hang onto that. I mean, I'll start with like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there is the term by in the in the label bisexual. UM.

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Speaker 1: That's a very very like scientific term, right UM. And

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Speaker 1: that term and the definition that goes with that term

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Speaker 1: wasn't derived from the community, from bisexual community UM. And

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Speaker 1: so typically bisexual communities have definitions that they use. Don't

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Speaker 1: tend to like believe in like monolithic community. So I

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Speaker 1: don't think there's like one LGBT community or one bisexual community, UM.

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Speaker 1: But bisexual communities have definitions that they use to sort

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Speaker 1: of define the orientation. So it's like if someone were

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Speaker 1: to ask me how I identify my bisexuality, I usually

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Speaker 1: say that I'm attracted to similar and different genders, right,

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Speaker 1: So I identify as like a assist sim woman right,

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Speaker 1: So similar would be like any for me, any sim

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Speaker 1: expression from anyone that's similar, um and different Literally for

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Speaker 1: me is anything that's not a sim expression. So everything

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Speaker 1: else um so expression of masculinity, expressions of it, androgeny um.

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Speaker 1: And so that's sort of like how I identify it,

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Speaker 1: and for me that's been that's that's been inclusive of

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Speaker 1: a lot of things and a lot of people. Um,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily and definitely not dependent just on and like

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Speaker 1: biological sex or a science sex that worst, but more

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Speaker 1: so UM expression. But I've said some people hear me

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Speaker 1: when I say that definition and then say like, oh,

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Speaker 1: well you can. But I don't. I don't understand when,

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Speaker 1: especially among queer communities, I don't understand what it's ever

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Speaker 1: acceptable to identify someone for themselves as opposed to going

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Speaker 1: with that person's definition for themselves. But it seems like

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Speaker 1: with by places, with by people, it's okay, it's okay

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Speaker 1: to say how you're using this word is wrong. How

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Speaker 1: you're using this definition is wrong, and you need to

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Speaker 1: use something else. But outside of that, no one would

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Speaker 1: ever do that. No one would ever say, like your

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Speaker 1: definition of um, I don't know of trans or gender

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Speaker 1: queer or queer in general is wrong and you need

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Speaker 1: to use that. No one would ever ever do that.

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Speaker 1: It's however you identify as how you identify, and let's

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Speaker 1: just roll with it. But with by people it tends

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Speaker 1: to be a little bit different because they're all those

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Speaker 1: stereotypes and stigmas. So I had you heard this thing

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Speaker 1: about bisexuality, that the term is problematic because by means too.

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Speaker 1: So if you say you're bisexual, then does that mean

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Speaker 1: that you're attracted only to two genders and that there

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Speaker 1: are only two genders? And does that, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: reinforce this idea that gender is binary. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, I don't think gender is binary. I think

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Speaker 1: gender is really multidimensional and um and not dichotomous, you know,

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Speaker 1: so that there's lots, there's probably infinite genders. And so

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Speaker 1: I started questioning my use of this term bisexual, and

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Speaker 1: that's sort of what started me on this track board. Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: then what did I call myself because I, you know,

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Speaker 1: because I want to represent in some way that I

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Speaker 1: think that gender is non binary UM. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, I was really kind of connected to this

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Speaker 1: bisexual identity UM. And And here's something I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say about the bisexual identity because a live times

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Speaker 1: when people have this heat, they're like, oh, you know, bisexuality,

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Speaker 1: it's it's um. You know, it's it's like a conservative

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Speaker 1: thing because it's saying that gender is um is binary.

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Speaker 1: But really, when you think about the history of UM

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Speaker 1: people embracing that term bisexuality, particularly, I would say, like

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Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties when bisexual activism really started

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Speaker 1: to grow more, UM, it was a radical thing to

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Speaker 1: say that you could be attracted some more than one gender.

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Speaker 1: And it's you know, I think that this saying that

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Speaker 1: really is UM is a radical way of combating UM,

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Speaker 1: this idea of psychotomist gender, you know, binary gender. You know,

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Speaker 1: just saying the gender might not be the most important,

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Speaker 1: saying or genders aren't necessarily opposite, that you can actually

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Speaker 1: love more than one gender. I think it's radical. And

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Speaker 1: so oh I hated the idea of giving up these

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Speaker 1: kind of radical roots of the of of my bisexual identity. UM.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, I was like, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to do anything that that's not inclusive of people

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Speaker 1: with non binary gender because that's something that I, you know,

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Speaker 1: really UM want to support. So I started thinking about

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Speaker 1: it and realized that, you know, there's there's sometimes the

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Speaker 1: difference between how we how we understand gender and who

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Speaker 1: were attracted to so UM. So, I mean a lot

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Speaker 1: of people are only attracted to one gender, it seems,

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Speaker 1: and and it's funny how we don't say, well, if

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Speaker 1: you're heterosexual, lesbian, or gay, then you're reinforcing binary gender

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Speaker 1: because you're only attracted to one gender. Like how limiting

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Speaker 1: is that only being attracted to one gender? Like we're

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Speaker 1: not we're not sort of critiquing those other sexual orientations

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Speaker 1: in the same way that we're critiquing bisexuality. So I

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Speaker 1: was like, maybe we need a way to to describe

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Speaker 1: how we understand gender the different from how we describe

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Speaker 1: what our actual attractions are. UM. And so that sort

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Speaker 1: of led me in a conversation with with some of

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Speaker 1: my friends colleagues, UM, Roger Worthington and Rebecca for if

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Speaker 1: we're having this whole conversation about like what do we

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Speaker 1: do about this firm, you know, and they were sort

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Speaker 1: of providing the guides and Roger Woodland who said, well

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Speaker 1: what about you know, because I said I don't think

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Speaker 1: gender is just too I think it's more than two.

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Speaker 1: I think it's infinite, you know, and he's like, well,

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Speaker 1: then what about PI sexuality? And I would like PI sexuality.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly it. It's more than two. It's infinite. Although

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Speaker 1: all the mathematician people are gonna be like, it's not infinite,

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Speaker 1: it's irrational, and so that's a whole mathematic thing. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't think bisexual people are irrational. Um, but I

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Speaker 1: went away for us, so like represent, Okay, maybe PI

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Speaker 1: sexuality is a way of saying I think gender is

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Speaker 1: non binary, and then you can be PI sexual and

427
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: then also describe your own attractions and relationships in whatever

428
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: way you want. So you could be a PI sexual bisexual,

429
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: which I describe myself as. You could be a PI sexual,

430
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: um gay man. You could be a bisexual like non binary, um,

431
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: a sexual person like you could be like there's all

432
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: kinds of like different things that you could be. But

433
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: a way of saying here's how I understand gender, and

434
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: then a different way of saying, here's my attraction. I

435
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: think I want to I want to talk a little

436
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: bit about anomalogy UM because I think that behind somewhat

437
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: of the pen and buy controversy is this reliance upon

438
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: etymology UM to just decide the ability of a sexual orientation.

439
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: And I just want to highlight that for the absolute

440
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: it is that non monifexual people, people who have the

441
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: potential to be attracted to more than one gender, are

442
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: the only ones who are asked to justify the etymology

443
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: of the label that they use. UM. So what I

444
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: mean by that is by people are told all the time,

445
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: but by these do PAN means all you should be PAN.

446
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: It's more inclusive. It doesn't UM reify the gender binary,

447
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: to which I say, yeah, gay means happy, lesbian means

448
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: from an island in Greece, and straight means level and even.

449
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: But I don't ask you to prove that you're happy

450
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: all the time that you're from Greece. So please don't

451
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: demand that I stand behind the etymology of the label

452
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 1: that people commonly use. Right now, for folks who are

453
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: attracted to more than one gender, it's absolute nonsense. But

454
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: if we want to talk about a sexual orientation reaffying

455
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: the gender binary, how about we talk about straight and

456
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: gain lesbian people who are either attracted to the opposite

457
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: the quote unquote opposite gender or the quote unquote same gender.

458
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: If anyone is reaffying the gender binary, it's straight and

459
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: gain lesbian people. But we don't accuse them of that

460
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: because we know that's a specious accusation. So let's please

461
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: not accuse non mono sexual people of reifying the gender binary.

462
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: I know so many trams bisexual people who are making

463
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: sick of being told that they are reaffying the gender binary,

464
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: especially non binary by people. It's just both. Now that

465
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: we have some definitions and some etymology, it's time to

466
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: look at some numbers. That First, we're going to pause

467
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: for a quick break or word from our sponsor, and

468
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you, sponsor. So what do statistics tell

469
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: us about the bisexual community? Here's herein again. So one

470
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: of the reasons I think it's so important to focus

471
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: not on, you know, whether someone identifies as by or

472
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: pan um, but focuses on what the disparities are feasting

473
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: the larger non monosexual community. Is that non monosexual folks

474
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: comprise the majority non monosexual identified people, that is, people

475
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: who identify as bisexual. And then in some surveys, people

476
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: who identify as bisexual or pan sexual comprise the majority

477
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: of lesbian, gay and by folks, they comprise over half

478
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: of lesbian, gay bisexual people. And then when you look

479
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: at people who have had sexual contact with people of

480
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: more than one gender, you're now up to, you know,

481
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: a couple of times more than people who have had

482
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: sexual contacts with only a gender similar to theirs. And

483
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: then finally, when you look at people who have experienced

484
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: sexual attraction to people of more than one gender, now

485
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: you're up In some studies even to like half of

486
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: youth have said that they have the possibility of attraction

487
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: to more than one gender. So we are we, meaning

488
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: non mono sexual people, are you know, more than half

489
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: of lesbian, gay, bisexual identified people. And then when you

490
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: start talking about possibility for attraction, you're up to maybe

491
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: half of youth. So we are an enormous part and

492
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: in fact of the majority of the LGB community. And

493
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: I should add here that trans people can be straight, gay,

494
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: left being or by to some studies that show that

495
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: trans people are more more likely to identify as buyer pans.

496
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: But you know, we don't have any dedicated services or programs.

497
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: We have no funded national groups. We have very few

498
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: dedicated programs or departments at any of the LGBT organizations.

499
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: I can't think of actually any. We have no paid

500
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: staff at any of your organizations, any of the bi

501
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: community organizations that do exist. UM. There is an absolute

502
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: dirf of funding. UM. And that lack of support, support

503
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: of services, supportive program combined with the bias that bisexual

504
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: and pense sexual people faith from gay lesty and den

505
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: strate people. I mean, we have disparities in really distinct areas.

506
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: I will highlight a couple with here. We have distinct

507
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: health disparities, and the one that always bolt me over

508
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: is our mental health disparities. The Youth Risk Behavior Survey

509
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: is an annual survey administered in nearly every state and

510
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: has an optional module that asks sexual orientation and sexual

511
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: attraction and sexual behavior among girls and apologies for the

512
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: very gendered language, but that's the language used in the

513
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: third guy among girls who identified as bisexual. In states

514
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: the administered the optional module in twenty I believe sixteen

515
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: one third of bisexual identified girls had attempted suicide in

516
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: the past twelve months. One third. That is a very

517
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: big number. It is justin when you think of how

518
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: many girls identify as bisexual. You know, some data shows

519
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: it's like up to ten or twenty of girls and bisexual.

520
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: You're looking at a public health crisis. And then when

521
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: you add the fact that there are not dedicated mental

522
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: health services for by you, you're looking that a mental

523
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: health crisis that is only going to worsen when people

524
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: look around and try and find supportive communities and don't

525
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: find anything, and then maybe they access to their gender

526
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: sexuality alliance at their school and they only face by

527
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: phobia or pan phobia. The second statistical talk about is

528
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: our the levels of intimate partner violence that buy people

529
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: of face. BY people face such intense levels of domestic

530
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: partner and intimate partner and sexual violence. But again it

531
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: is a public health crisis. I believe that dos Indeed,

532
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: I think maybe sixty percent of BY women have faced

533
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: violence from an intimate partner and fort percent of BY

534
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: women and have been raped in their lifetime. Half one

535
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: in two BY women has been raped. There's an organization

536
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: called and I think it's called the Northwest Network of

537
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,720
Speaker 1: Intimate Partner Violence to the series of focus groups around

538
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: the country was by female survivors of violence and trans

539
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: and UH non binary UM and what they found from

540
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: these qualitative interviews with the survivors of violence female survivors

541
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: of violence is that the intimate partner violence faced by

542
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: by women does not conform sometimes to the cycle of

543
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: violence that service providers often looked to to help people

544
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: be safe. What they found instead was that instead of

545
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: there being like a ramping up of control that may

546
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: precede moments of physical violence, that often these survivors talked

547
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: about violence being preceded by a moment of coming out

548
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 1: as by or a partner realizing that their partner was bisexual,

549
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 1: and that being the flash point. And again they're not

550
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: being conversation about that, They're not being open conversations about

551
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: how biophobia leads to violence, about how biophobia can lead

552
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: to corrective rape, but how partners can view the partners

553
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: bisexuality to isolate them from their friends and family, to

554
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: control them, to say that, you know, to use it

555
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: as a weapon. UM. And given the the number of

556
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: women who identify as by Again, you have a public

557
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: health crisis. And then the finals that I'll mention is

558
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: economic insecurity UM and I think it's again of by

559
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: women UM live at or below. I think it's thirty

560
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year for a household UM. And you know,

561
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: together you have a picture of BY people who face

562
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: bias at work, who face bias at school, who are

563
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: being turned out by their family, of homeless you identify

564
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: as bisexual twenty percent. You have youth who are being

565
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: removed from their families by their parents, who are facing

566
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: violence in foster and adoptive placements, and who are turning

567
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: to the streets. Then when they look for supportive communities,

568
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: they don't find by supportive communities, they find m violence

569
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: with partners whom they may have to turn to for

570
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: housing or for food. You have a lack of economic security,

571
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: and you have isolation, erasure, and invisibility. And this is

572
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: not to say that BI folks aren't resilient. We have

573
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: an incredibly rising, beautiful community full of artists and musicians

574
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: and lawyers like myself and UM activists and advocates. But

575
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: what we also have is a crisis of erasier and

576
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: invisibility that is leading to directly to yes. So that

577
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: was very sobering for me. The lack of community and

578
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: the level of bias bisexuals face on all sides leads

579
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: to all sorts of negative outcomes. I'm I'm a data geek.

580
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: There's been some emerging research, um, you know from Dr Roberts,

581
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: who I extented you with and then uh with Brian

582
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: Dodge and Wendy Bostick. Um. But doctor Dodge has been

583
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 1: doing some incredible research and to buy it a thing

584
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: bisexual people and actually has developed a a metric to

585
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: measure it, and his emergent research is showing that by

586
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: people face intense levels of bias and erasure and discrimination

587
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: from gay, unless bean and straight people. They face quantitatively

588
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: slightly more discrimination from straight people, which is unsurprising just

589
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 1: given the fact that probably more gay and lesbian identified

590
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: people know a by person prarly for like proximities to

591
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: stake being in queer community um, whereas straight people may

592
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,479
Speaker 1: not know a by person or out by person, either

593
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: because out by people don't feel safe to be out

594
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: around a straight person or because they don't have a

595
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: one in their friend or family circle. More likely that

596
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: people don't feel safe to come out around them because

597
00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: we are everywhere. UM. But what Dr Dodges research has

598
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: shown is that bias and errature from gay and lesbian

599
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: people hurt by people so much more deeply. And I

600
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: believe that's because we are taught that we are supposed

601
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: to be part of the same community, right the queer community,

602
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 1: LGBTQ community. We're supposed to have community centers together and

603
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 1: do a pride together. And when you face bias within

604
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: our supposed community and being hurt out in San Francisco, UM,

605
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: I believe it was a by group, although I can

606
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: clarify that looked at the mental health of women moving

607
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: into the day area from rural for suburban areas around

608
00:39:55,480 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: the cities Oakland and sanmiss going Berkeley, UM and found

609
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: something really interesting and what you'll find this now unsurprising.

610
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: So both lesbians and by women in rural more rural

611
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: areas reported lower levels of UH mental health, well being,

612
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: mental well being. And when the lesbian women moved into

613
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: the city, what do you suspect their mental well being did?

614
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: We're staring at each other, like, who's going to answer this?

615
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: I would think that it had increased obviously with a

616
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: little more access for them specifically. Factually, yeah, they found community.

617
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,479
Speaker 1: More specifically, they found places with like minded people, people

618
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: who had similar life experiences. They found programs and services

619
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: that supported them um and that improved their their mental health.

620
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 1: What about the by women went down? I was gonna

621
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: say you that went down or stay the same in

622
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,479
Speaker 1: the sense of yeah, it went down, it went down,

623
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: and I suspect that it went down because of their

624
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: level of expectation and then disappointment. You're like, I'm gonna

625
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: move to the city. I'm gonna find people like me,

626
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to finally be supported. I'm gonna find mental

627
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 1: health services. I'm going to find a community group and

628
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: it's like a chat group and we can go to

629
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 1: dinner and then a there aren't those things, and then

630
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: be When you try and find community with other LGBTQ women,

631
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: you face bias intead and people say that you're not

632
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: queer enough to be part of their community. People interrogate

633
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: how many relationships you've had with people of specistic genders,

634
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: and it can have an incredibly negative impact on your

635
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: mental health. It turns out bisexual people's face a lot

636
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,479
Speaker 1: of challenges related to mental health. And so so I'll

637
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that, and then I can

638
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about why that is to in

639
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: terms of sexual orientation of you know, if you're looking

640
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: at lesbian, gay, bisexual, and by the way, when I

641
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: say bisexual, UM, you know, I sort of think about

642
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: that as the by plus category of UM all non

643
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: monosexual people. So people might identify as hand sexual, or

644
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: some people identify as queer UM or polysexual. There's a

645
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: lot of different terms that people are going to use, UM.

646
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: But so when I say bisexual, it's a little bit

647
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 1: sorcand but but I'm thinking of it very exclusively. Bisexual people,

648
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: UM are the most vulnerable sexual orientation in terms of

649
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 1: a lot of mental health issues. And some of these,

650
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 1: you know, very a little bit depending on what's gender

651
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: of the bisexual person you're talking about. But there are

652
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: things like suicidality and iety depressions, UM, you know, really

653
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: serious things um uh, alcohol and other drug use. You

654
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: know that there there are mental health UM diagnoses and

655
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: issues that bisexual people's faith more severely and more often

656
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: than other sexual orientations do. And people are sometimes surprised

657
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: to hear that because they say, well, but I thought

658
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: bisexual people like, uh, they've got heterosexual privilege, and so

659
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: you know they can pass and so and and it's

660
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: easier than being lessian or gay and so it's this

661
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: is why it's important that we like disaggregate the data,

662
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: that we pull out the data about the bisexual people

663
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: so we can really understand things, because it turns out

664
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: that a lot of the mental health vulnerabilities that we've

665
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: talked about applying to less being gained bisexual people, really

666
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: the bisexual people in those samples are are the ones

667
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: who are experienced, um, that pattern that we've been attributing

668
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: to all sexual minority people. Okay, so there there's a

669
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: couple of things that are unique stressors for bisexual people,

670
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: um that that aren't the same for lesbian and gay

671
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: people or heterosexual people. Um. But bisexuality people don't even

672
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: believe that it exists, you know that. That's a lot

673
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,959
Speaker 1: of times people will um say, oh, well, bisexuality, that's

674
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: really just you're on your way to being lesbian or gay,

675
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: or you're lying, or you're confused, or you don't understand.

676
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 1: There's lots of different ways of of erasing bisexuality and

677
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: saying it doesn't really exist, um, But but in truth,

678
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's true, like some people do identify as bisexual, um,

679
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: and then later identify as lesbian or gay, But some

680
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: people also identify as lesbian and gay and then later

681
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: identify as bisexual, or some people just identify as bisexual

682
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: from the start and say that way. So there's a

683
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: lot of variation in that that that, um, but that's

684
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: not a reason to um, to dismiss the existence of bisexuality.

685
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: The other thing is that, um, there's so little bisexual visibility,

686
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: both in media representations of bisexuality but also in communities,

687
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: you know, so we don't often see, um, you know,

688
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: Pride to coming up this weekend in a bunch of

689
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: cities that already happened in other places, and bisexuality does

690
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: you know, isn't that visible despite the fact that there

691
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: are more bisexual people than lesbians and gay men put together.

692
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: Like you would think that in the in the Pride parades,

693
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: over half the people in there should be bisexual and

694
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: we should be seeing like pink and blue and purple

695
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: all over the place during Pride, but that's not what happens.

696
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 1: And so so that visibility is really important for people

697
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: to feel like, you know, that that they feel legitimate,

698
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: that they feel like they can find their community, they

699
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: can see people like them, and that's important for for

700
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: mental health as well. And then that last thing is

701
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: just the feeling of community and and connection to other people. So, um,

702
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: it's great that there's you know, strong lesbian and gay

703
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: community and a lot of places that you know, decades

704
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: ago didn't exist, you know, fifty years ago before Stone Wall,

705
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: we didn't have that. So it's great that we have that.

706
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: But often lesbian and gay communities are not very welcoming

707
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: of bisexual people. And so there's there's a lot of

708
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: by people like hiding out in lesbian and gay communities,

709
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: you know, who don't feel like they can be open

710
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 1: about it. And then there are people who are bisexual

711
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,919
Speaker 1: who can keep saying that they're bisexual, but people keep

712
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 1: forgetting or dismissing it or not believing it or whatever.

713
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: So so it's really hard to feel um validated and

714
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: accepted and supported when when you don't have that. So

715
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that there's been some research on um

716
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: bisexual people and therapy and and so, and let me

717
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: talk about young bisexual women because there's there's a study

718
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: that came out in by Slanders um and and colleagues,

719
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: UM that that specifically about young bisexual women's perceptions of

720
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: their mental health and um, so and and women like

721
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: there's there's even a higher percentage of women who are

722
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: bisexual than than men who are and so it's it's

723
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: important for us to understand what's going on here, although

724
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: we really need representation of them too, so UM. But

725
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: but in this particular study, UM, they said, UM, the

726
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: women said that health care providers seem to not know

727
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: much about bisexuality, and they became exhausted from having to

728
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: explain their identity to other people and especially mental health providers,

729
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: and it just seemed like there weren't a lot of

730
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: by inclusive resources. So that's something important to know, is

731
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,879
Speaker 1: that that mental health providers are not meeting the needs

732
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: of bisexual people, like there's this there's this highly vulnerable population,

733
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: and that mental health providers like don't know how to

734
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: affirm and how to assist. So that's something important, UM

735
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: in terms of what we can actually do for bisexual people.

736
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: Like one thing is sometimes when mental health providers are

737
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,439
Speaker 1: trying to be affirming of lesbian and gay people, they

738
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,919
Speaker 1: sometimes forget about bisexuality. So I think that the first

739
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: thing is to remember that your clients might be bisexual.

740
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: So if they're talking about same gender attractions, then not

741
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: to assume that they're lesbian or gay and like helps

742
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: them along this path to an affirming lesbian or gay identity,

743
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: but really UM to hold a space for the complexity

744
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: of sexual orientation, whatever people end up doing with their

745
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: identities and whatnot, just trying to UM allow people to

746
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: UM to have that complexity of sexual orientations. One of

747
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: the things that I think is a really useful tool

748
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: in working with bisexual clients is the Client Sexual Orientation

749
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: Guide UM, because it's UM acknowledges that there's many dimensions

750
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: of sexual orientation. UM there's you know, sexual attraction, there's

751
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: sexual behavior, there's identity, there's who your community is. So

752
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,760
Speaker 1: there's all of these different things, and each of those

753
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: can really be thought about on a continuum, and they

754
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: can also be thought about in terms of where you

755
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: are now, where you've been in the past, and you

756
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: might have like where you see yourself in the future,

757
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: or maybe an ideal of where you'd like to be

758
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: with that. And the nice thing about that is that

759
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: it allows for there to be differences like people might say, Okay,

760
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: well I have you know, I fantasize about these kinds

761
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: of people, but you know, but I've only had relationships

762
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: with these kinds of people, and you know, and so

763
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: so those those things that might be seen as discrepancies

764
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 1: in in other situations can actually all be held in

765
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: one space and say, you know what, sexual orientation is

766
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: just really complex and um and we need to understand that.

767
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 1: So so I think that that that can be a

768
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: really helpful tool. We need to have visibility lesbians and

769
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 1: you know, gay men need to um, need to welcome

770
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: by sexual people. Not to think because that would be nice,

771
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 1: I'm saying, it's because there's a serious bits to not

772
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: doing it like we are. We are abandoning some of

773
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: the most vulnerable people in our community if we're not,

774
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: you know, stepping up and providing that support. A term

775
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: you've heard as use is mono sexism. We asked Dr Roberts,

776
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: who hasn't met President Obama, by the way, and she

777
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 1: has also done some research around mono sexism, to expound

778
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: on it. But before we get into that, we have

779
00:50:47,320 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: one more quick break forward from our sponsors, we're back,

780
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: thank you. Here's Dr Affords. So monosexism, Um, there's this

781
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: idea that you have monosexual orientations and those are individuals

782
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: that are just attracted to one sex or one general presentation. UM.

783
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: So people who are heterosexual are monosexual as well. UM. Similarly,

784
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: people who are lesbian or gay are MONOSEEXUA because there's

785
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: texis to multiple expressions just that one. UM. So that's

786
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: what mono sexual is. And then you have um non

787
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: monosexual identities, including bisexual including just like general player including

788
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: a sexual UM. And those are just individuals who are

789
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: attracted to more than one UM gender identity and or

790
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: sexual um sexual identity. So mono sexism then is like

791
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,879
Speaker 1: this idea that if you're are attracted to more than one,

792
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: that's wrong. You have to take a side. And so

793
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: it's theories that buy people get um interestingly enough from

794
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: both sides phone quote, and that straight people saying like, oh,

795
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: you're not straight enough because you still have this other attraction,

796
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 1: and was being engaged people saying the same thing, like

797
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: you're not gay enough because you still have this other attraction.

798
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: So model sextis images this idea that if you have

799
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:30,720
Speaker 1: this additional attraction, then there's gonna be some discrimination. Because

800
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: one of the reasons we wanted to speak with you

801
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: is UM, you wrote UM or you were part of

802
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: a paper between a gain in a straight place by

803
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: sexual individuals experiences with mono sexism. UM. Could you go

804
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: into the work that you did with that? Oh yeah,

805
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: so that's that. That was one of my academic babies,

806
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:59,240
Speaker 1: is I like to call it UM. So that initially

807
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: was my master's thesis when I was at the University

808
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: of Wisconsin, Madison, and part of that study, I collected

809
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: data on oh gosh UM over twelve hundred or so

810
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 1: UM bisexual identified people and I UM. It was like

811
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,879
Speaker 1: online survey, so I asked questions about their experiences with

812
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 1: discrimination UM, both from heterosexual people and from LGBC communities,

813
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: because I wanted to see UM based on my own experience,

814
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: whether or not there was a difference and like the

815
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: discrimination and unfortunate biphobia that by people get from both communities.

816
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: So I end up finding that there there was a

817
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,280
Speaker 1: difference in the amount of black phobia that by people

818
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: experienced from gay and straight communities, but realistically, like that

819
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 1: difference was so so, so so small. And I want

820
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: to say, like it's like you're in a room and

821
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,280
Speaker 1: you have two people yelling at you and one person

822
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,399
Speaker 1: like the straight group is yelling at you like two

823
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: decibel tires, then the gay group. They're both still yelling

824
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: at you. At some point you can barely tell the

825
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: difference between like the volume, but there is like a

826
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: statistically significant difference. So there was like a significant difference,

827
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: but there is still extreme about the Laoba experience UM

828
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: by bi sexual people from so Heterosexual and listening AG.

829
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: I personally have known UM other friends that I know

830
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: who are by who who are married to SIS men,

831
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, I'm by I'm part of the community.

832
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: I want to go to this like drag show or

833
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: I want to go to this Pride event, and they've

834
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,839
Speaker 1: been accosted at the event, like they've had people come up.

835
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: Like one of my really close friends, she says that

836
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 1: she has someone come up to her table and said,

837
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? You straight girl? And she's like,

838
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not a straight girl, Like this is

839
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,760
Speaker 1: my community too, So it really is just like feeling

840
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 1: like you don't belong UM. I've had individuals in my

841
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: life who were identified as some I'm sort of where, um,

842
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:23,320
Speaker 1: I want to challenge me on my definition of bisexuality

843
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 1: and like assuming that I sort of perpetuate the binary

844
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: and that I'm like anti trans, which is completely not

845
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 1: the issue at all, um. But it's more so like

846
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: they have this definition of bisexual in their heads, um

847
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 1: they've been taught or learned or heard from other other communities.

848
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: There aren't by communities, and so they aren't really listening

849
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: to definitions of bifexuality that come from by community, um.

850
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 1: And so there seems to be in this clash that's

851
00:55:55,280 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: there lately. Now, Like I said, it's a lot of

852
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: like I didn't know you were insert person who's perpetuating

853
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,919
Speaker 1: the binary and doesn't like trans people. And even if

854
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 1: I say, like that's not that's actually that's not how

855
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: I identify my sexual orientation, it doesn't matter. And so

856
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: that that's that that happened within a middlesecond at like

857
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 1: the first introduction to someone you know. And so if

858
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: that's sort of like your community level introduction that you're

859
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: trying to build communities, there can be you know, there

860
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: might be some some sticky situations with that, um for

861
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 1: people who might already have the negative image or negative

862
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: perception of life sexualities. Um and in the workplace because

863
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: people don't people don't talk about by anything, right, So

864
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 1: like you think like LGBT community for people forget that

865
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 1: like to be actually stands for something if you're at

866
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: an accepting workplace. UM, I still think coming out it's

867
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 1: by like that's sort of a second coming coming out

868
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: that you have to do it come out woman to

869
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 1: say like, hey, I'm not straight, and then everyone's like, okay,

870
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: you're lesbian or you're gay, and then you have to

871
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,919
Speaker 1: come up come out again and say I'm not either

872
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: those either, I'm bye um, and then there's either going

873
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 1: to be like blank stares or like internal gas or

874
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: for me, it's not just like Okay, I don't fit

875
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: in with this community. That stucks. I feel lonely. Um

876
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 1: Like that's one thing, and loneliness conferred depression and a

877
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 1: lot of mental health outcomes. But when you're looking specifically

878
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: at bisexual people compared to non bisexual queer quote unquote,

879
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: I thinkify people so lesbian, m gay, um, just other

880
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: non by people. They're like our distinct health separities. Like

881
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 1: bisexual people are have higher rates of over bixexual women

882
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: have higher rates of ovarian cancer. And it's purely because

883
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: doctors are hearing the sexual organization and not giving certain tests.

884
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: So if I'm a by, I'm a bise this woman,

885
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 1: and if I'm in a relationship with another UM with

886
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: a person who has a uterus, uh, and I tell

887
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: my doctor that I'm in a relationship with someone who

888
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 1: has a uterus and that's what my sex life is

889
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: for doctors will not give certain tests that they do

890
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: with women who are in relationship with people about penises,

891
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: and because of that is higher race of blevarian cancer,

892
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 1: which I think is absolutely ridiculous, Like there's no way

893
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: that my sexual orientation should have any correlation to hire

894
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: race of cancers because I'm not getting checks for things,

895
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, And it's just like some of the physical

896
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: health things. Anytime you're you're adding more minority identity is

897
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: just like the level of trauma is like exponential, Like

898
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a black bisexual woman, UM like this woman UM.

899
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: But still like so I'm you know, I experienced mysel

900
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: we experience racism, I experienced sexism, and I experienced the

901
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: intersection of all of those. Really really hard, you know, yeah,

902
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: because it's like you look at all of the statistics

903
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: comm of the research on the impact of racism and

904
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: the specifically own black people and everything out there says

905
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: that there's so I mean, yeah, there's a lot of

906
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 1: research that it's looking at, UM sort of help promote

907
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: of behaviors and resiliency. But if you're looking at the resources,

908
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: there's like from the negative impact in terms of like

909
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: physical health, looking at high blood pressure, looking at diabetes,

910
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: looking at sort of like this generational transmission of trauma,

911
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: and then you add to that the sexual orientation and

912
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: general identity peat from top to that, and you just

913
00:59:53,400 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 1: you have these really complex and layered systems of oppression UM.

914
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 1: And it's it's it's surprising that people I mean I

915
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: talked about I'm talking about this was my partner all

916
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: the time. My partner identifies digioner is non binary. So

917
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 1: we get a lot of bisexual non binary conversations and

918
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 1: a lot of times we're just like, how do we

919
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 1: get up in the boarding. I don't know, but we

920
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: have to, so we do it. I have personally encountered

921
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: a lot of misconceptions and bias around bisexuality, and I

922
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 1: made a quick list of just ones that I thought

923
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: of off the top of my head. The first one

924
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't exist, uh, the second one it's a phase.

925
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: And then also like you can't make up your mind.

926
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 1: You're greedy, you're trader, you're oppressed, homosexual, your insert mental

927
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: health problem here, You're overly sexual, always want sex, are aggressive,

928
01:00:56,720 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: are promiscuous, less oil less, monogamous, and these misconceptions have

929
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 1: a huge impact individual too systemic. We asked our interviewees

930
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: about all of these misconceptions and about bi phobia and

931
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: bi ray. Sure, so biphon them and internally by negative

932
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 1: really are really really similar. One is your sort of

933
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: like an external and one is an internal. So biphobia

934
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: would be all of the um negative interaction, uh, terrified

935
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: stigma that by people experienced from the non by people. UM.

936
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: So if I go out in community and say like, hey,

937
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 1: I'm by I have this partner, and someone says, oh,

938
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 1: your partner is massicuin beginning you're not allowed in this

939
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 1: um in our like prize celebration because we only want

940
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 1: gay people here. Like that's an example of how I

941
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: would experience by phobia and then internalized by negativity. Is

942
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 1: what happens when people sort of take all of that

943
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 1: negativity and they turn it in on themselves. And so

944
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 1: that would be me wondering like if I'm buying enough,

945
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: or um, maybe I am what these people say by

946
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,919
Speaker 1: people are maybe I am just sort of like untrustworthy

947
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 1: and sort of like questioning my phone models because the

948
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 1: voices of everyone else has kind of gotten game a

949
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 1: lot of the stigma. The types are ones that by

950
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 1: people are untrustworthy, they're shady. Um, they're always gonna leave

951
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: you for like the quote unquote other. Right, so like

952
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 1: the other gender expression or the other sects, they're always

953
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 1: going to just leave you for the other. Um, so

954
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: you can't trust them anyway. Um. And there's also this

955
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 1: really I just think disgusting sort of stereotypes that I

956
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 1: personally have heard and been told in my life that

957
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: by people, because there's multiple attractions, that by people are

958
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 1: the ones who are spreading HIV and AIDS among queer communities.

959
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: We're not We're not talking about like how queer people

960
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 1: don't really have a lot of conversations about safe for

961
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: sex anyway. We're not talking about any of that. We're

962
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 1: just looking for a scapegoat. You see you know this

963
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 1: age crisis, and you see like physical health disparities and

964
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: queer communities, and you're not attracted. You're not attributing it

965
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: to all of the issues that we have in terms

966
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: of just healthcare in this country. You want a scapegoat,

967
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 1: and I can I understand that, because it's something that's

968
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 1: really horrible that's happening, and everyone wants to attach it

969
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 1: to someone else, So you want a scapegoat. But I

970
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 1: don't think you know people who are also in that shuggle,

971
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 1: who are experiencing all of those same health disparities, who

972
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: are in the stick of it. I don't think that

973
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 1: we that we need to be the scapegoat. And bisexuality

974
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 1: is very stigmatized in many ways. Often in the lesbian

975
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: and a community. Sometimes bisexual people are thought of as

976
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 1: not having the courage to come out of the closet

977
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 1: all the way, or we're on we're on the way

978
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: to coming out, or confused, and many lesbian and gay

979
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: people don't want to date us or don't want to

980
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 1: engage with us because there's this thought that we're just

981
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 1: experimenting and don't really know what we want. And then

982
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 1: in the straight community, I think we're often perceived as

983
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: just being floody and once again just experimenting. And I

984
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: have been bisexual and aware of it and out about

985
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: it for twenty years. I'm not experimenting. I know who

986
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: I am, and I really am attracted to people of

987
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 1: multiple genders UM, and I think it's really useful for

988
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:41,040
Speaker 1: me as an attorney. I feel a strong identification with

989
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: the word bisexual because, as I said, that has legal

990
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 1: and political meaning, and so when we're trying to include

991
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: other classes of people in for example, UM, much of

992
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 1: the federal court litigation about same sex marriages UM sometimes

993
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 1: speaks about the possibility only of people being in same

994
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 1: sex couples or UM. It frames the debate about issues

995
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: such a same sex marriage around only having the option

996
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 1: to marry people who are same sex UM as opposed

997
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 1: to being bisexual and just choosing that. You know, this

998
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: is the person I love and I want to I'm

999
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: not under duress because I could potentially be married to

1000
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: a man, but I would rather marry a woman, as

1001
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 1: a bisexual woman perhaps UM. So I think sometimes in

1002
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: a lot of that debate, bisexuality is left out, and

1003
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 1: it's important for the legal continuity to be able to

1004
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 1: use the word that is going to continue on and

1005
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: I'm concerned about, you know, creating new words and identities

1006
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 1: over time, which I think may work socially and culturally,

1007
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 1: but in terms of legal activism, I feel like it's

1008
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: important to hang on to that stigmatized bisexual label and

1009
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 1: re embrace it. I think it's important that in these

1010
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: kinds of situations we recognize that having been in different

1011
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 1: sex relationships does not mean that you are not legitimately

1012
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: a queer person, that you're not legitimately a bisexual person

1013
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 1: if that's how you identify yourself, and that those people

1014
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: can face to us as much stigma. There's a massive

1015
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: rate of homelessness, UM and oppression among bisexual people, particularly

1016
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 1: young bisexual people, and it's the largest proportion of the

1017
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: LGBTQ community, and yet sometimes the least heard of. We

1018
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: sometimes call that bio rature because UM, many people feel

1019
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: like they don't have the right to fully claim the

1020
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: mantle of being an lgbt Q person UM, and yet

1021
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 1: we often face a lot of stigma in both the

1022
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 1: gay lesbian world as well as in um the straight world,

1023
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 1: and so I think it's really important for us to

1024
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 1: band together. And I feel particularly passionate about sharing my

1025
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 1: pride as a bisexual person because it took me a

1026
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 1: long time to get there, and I know that for

1027
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 1: a lot of people they still feel really stigmatized. I

1028
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 1: already shared this spatistic about how they're more bisexual people

1029
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 1: than lesbians and game I put together. Now that is

1030
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 1: shocking for a lot of people. Um, But there's this

1031
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 1: there's this other thing that that also surprising, um, which

1032
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 1: is the percented of bisexual people who are coupled, you know,

1033
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:21,960
Speaker 1: who are in relationships, who are in mixed gender relationships.

1034
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 1: And if you're bisexual and you know you could have

1035
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 1: a relationship with somebody of any gender, then then you're

1036
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: just more likely, like statistically, to end up in a

1037
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 1: relationship with somebody in another gender. It's just you know,

1038
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 1: so so it's not even necessarily like that people are

1039
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: trying to be positible. Okay, I'm not going to keep

1040
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 1: your insets. I'll tell you the ins that eighty four

1041
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 1: per cent of coupled bisexual people are in mixed gender relationship.

1042
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,920
Speaker 1: I think that's that's you know, when people think about

1043
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: bisexual people, when people think about any sexual minority, but

1044
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 1: even by sexual people. They're thinking about people who are

1045
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 1: connect it with bisexual community who are probably in the

1046
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 1: same gender relationship, like they've got a certain view of it.

1047
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:10,439
Speaker 1: So there are like the vast majority of bisexual people

1048
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 1: are in mixed general relationships and and so people might

1049
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 1: not recognize them as being a sexual minority person, let

1050
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 1: alone bisexual. So that's really important I think for people

1051
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 1: to understand who are like organizers and service providers that

1052
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 1: if you are only like reaching out to people through

1053
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:36,599
Speaker 1: LGBT networks and you know, um uh, same sex coupled

1054
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 1: kinds of things, then you are missing most bisexual people.

1055
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 1: So I'm always saying to people, if you want to

1056
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 1: reach bisexual people, like for our bisexual discussion group, we

1057
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 1: should advertise in the local paper, like in an online

1058
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 1: on on like calendar events. But I also recommend that

1059
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:56,759
Speaker 1: people like reach out through parenting groups and stuff, because

1060
01:08:57,120 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 1: bisexual people are more likely to be parents the lisians

1061
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 1: and gay men are so um so just when we

1062
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Speaker 1: think about how do we reach bisexual people, and also

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01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure that all those people

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01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:14,440
Speaker 1: who all those bisexual people who are in mixed general relationships,

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01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 1: like if you're listening to this. I want you to

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01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:21,600
Speaker 1: feel seen and known because you might feel really isolated.

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Speaker 1: And we want to say to anyone listening who does

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Speaker 1: feel isolated, you are not alone. Um. And that is

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Speaker 1: some advice. But we will have more because, as we said,

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Speaker 1: this is just part one, right, yes, stay tuned for

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01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 1: part two, where we dive more into biratire and by negativity,

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Speaker 1: personal experiences and Hikui who's bisexual Hiku also known as Biku.

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Speaker 1: I love this so much too and resources. In the meantime,

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Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you listeners. You can

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Speaker 1: email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart Media

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01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,679
Speaker 1: dot um. You can find us on Instagram at stuff Mom,

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Speaker 1: Never Told You and on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, Thank you to all of our

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Speaker 1: Interviewee you'll hear again, Yes you will. Thanks as always

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Speaker 1: to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks Andrew, and thanks

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01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:19,680
Speaker 1: to you for listening. Thank you, Steph. I'm Never Told

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01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 1: You's a protection of iharradias. How stuff works. For more

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01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 1: podcasts from Ihear Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,

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01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.