WEBVTT - Did 24-Hour Cable News Kill America? 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.960 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.720 Hey, and welcome to the last ad before the episode. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.919 I'm sorry, it's just that the first three shows of 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.000 our Canadian summer tour are right around the corner, and 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.919 we want to make sure everyone knows about them. We'll 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.599 be in Montreal and Ottawa for the first time ever 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:30.240 on June twenty fifth and twenty sixth. That's next Thursday 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.839 and Friday, and we're coming back to our beloved Toronto 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.240 on Saturday, June twenty seventh. You can go to stuff 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.279 youshould know dot com for tickets and info and if 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:42.680 you are able to make it, we'd love to see you. 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:45.840 Now here's the episode for real. 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.479 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.920 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, there's Chuck 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.360 and it's just two of us today. That's all right. 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:06.679 Jerry is a very busy person with loss on our plate. 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:07.960 We understand that. Fully. 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:09.319 It's right. 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:10.760 It's still stuff you should know. 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:13.520 That's right. It is still stuff you should know. And 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:18.880 today we are talking about cable news possibly ruining our country. 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:22.000 I don't know that there's much possibly about it. 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.360 Yeah, you know, I never really thought about it. I mean, 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.000 I think about our country being ruined a lot. Yeah, 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:31.800 but I you know, I never really thought a lot 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:34.560 about like what was the initial cause of stuff. But 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.880 it's hard to not make an argument that cable news 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.759 has been like twenty four hour, twenty four to seven 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.240 cable news coverage is what we're talking about. Yeah, is 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.200 that didn't make a real dent in things? 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:51.360 Yeah, for sure. And like there's study after study that 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:55.080 just shows all the negative effects it has, like ONLI 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:59.080 like a collective scale, on an individual scale, Like it's 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.040 just not good stuff. I looked all over. You can't 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.520 really find any positive like studies on it. They're like, yeah, 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.520 it's really good for this. I mean, I guess it 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:12.480 does make you feel alive to some degree, But I 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.280 think that's also kind of like trying to find the 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.720 good and mental cigarettes by saying they like make your 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.799 throat feel icy when you're smoking them. 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:23.560 Yeah, And you know, I think we're going to talk 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:25.360 about this a good place to start as sort of 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:29.639 a brief little look at the old days before cable 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.359 news was. You know, when you and I were growing up, 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:37.119 there were big the Big three CBS, NBC and ABC 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.560 News or you know the networks, and they had news 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.160 shows that came on at you know, in the evening 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.880 and then like six or six thirty and then eleven, 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.160 and that's where people got their national news, and it 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.679 was reported on in a way where they just sort 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.360 of said, here's what's going on in the world, here 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.200 are the facts of what's happening, and we all had 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.960 a shared reality of what was going on, and you 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:05.760 could kind of make up your own mind about it. 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.160 Yeah. Shared reality is a great way to put it. 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:10.960 And there has been lots of study about the importance 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.960 of that too. Right, So, like even if the people 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:18.120 who are watching the news didn't agree with other people 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.800 who are watching the news about, you know, what the 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:25.600 solution was to this problem, they were still thinking and 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.280 looking at the same problem, right, Right. That shared reality 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.320 was a set of facts that everyone agreed like, this 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:34.680 is what's going on, this is the problems that our 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:37.720 country's facing. And then you have like an argument in 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.600 the marketplace of ideas about you know, what's the best 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:44.560 solution and the best way to move forward? Right, Yeah, 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.320 And when you have that kind of thing people have, 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:51.360 it was called a sort of social, cultural, and political 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.640 glue that just kind of brought people together and very 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:58.920 importantly gave people a sense of a shared national identity, 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:02.440 like people were all Americans, right, everybody living in the 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:06.440 United States, We're all Americans. Even though we don't always agree, 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:10.000 we don't hate each other for being different. Necessarily we 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.560 are all at the end of the day, Americans. 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.880 Yeah, for sure. And at the center of that glue, well, 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.200 or maybe it was the glue, I guess, was that 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.039 shared reality of hey, we're all agreeing on the at 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:25.600 least the basic facts of what's going on. We did 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.400 an entire episode on the Fairness Doctrine. It was released 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.360 appropriately on July fourth, twenty nineteen, So if you want 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.320 to go listen like in depth about the fairness Doctrine, 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.039 you can, but just sort of a quick overview for 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.920 this purpose though, is the FCC here in the United States. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.120 The Federal Communications Commission was created in the early nineteen 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:49.039 thirties and their mandate was to quote encourage the larger 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.920 and more effective use of radio in the public interest. 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.560 And you know, radio was their jam early on, obviously 0:04:55.600 --> 0:05:00.240 before television and the fairness doctrine was conceived in the 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.080 radio days in the nineteen thirties and forties because there 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:06.000 were a bunch of one sided political editorials on the 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:10.000 radio at the time. So they said, hey, after World 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.960 War two pass, let's get together and at least decide 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.480 on a set of rules that all radio and eventually 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:17.240 TV stations need to adhere to. 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:19.640 Yeah, and a lot of it had to do with 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:23.080 the duty that broadcasters had to serve the public good. 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:26.720 That was the point of getting a broadcast license. Right. Yeah, 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:28.599 you made money selling ads and stuff like that, but 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:31.479 ultimately what the government wanted you to do was to 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.360 basically serve the public. And the way that you did 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:40.039 that was you devoted airtime to objective, non partisan coverage 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:44.680 of all issues. Right, you have to be fair. You 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.760 had to give other people who had a different point 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:51.440 of view a chance to get their coverage as well. 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:57.640 If somebody in particular was criticized by the station itself, 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:02.200 by the newscast, so it's an editorials, that person should 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:06.159 have ample opportunity to respond. And then this also was 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.560 part of our Presidential Debates episode. Yeah, part of fairness 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.240 doctrine was if you were a political candidate, you got 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.240 equal time to every other political candidate, like all political candidates, 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:19.839 had to get exactly the same amount of airtime over 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.239 the course of the race. 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.080 Yeah, so that was the fairness doctrine. It worked really 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.400 well for a long time. And then, you know, as 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.920 we detailed in the episode, in nineteen eighty Ronald Reagan 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.200 came around and said, let me quote Josh Clark of 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:37.440 the Future nuts to that, and so he said, yeah's, 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:39.760 you know, let's open it up to competition. If you're 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.159 a broadcaster, you should be able to compete in the 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.760 marketplace for viewers and just let the chips fall where 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.600 they may. And so in nineteen eighty seven, the FCC 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:54.520 stopped enforcing the fairness doctrine, and almost immediately radio was 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.960 the first place where we saw the big change. Talk radio, 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.960 especially in the AM dial, exploded, I think over a 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.040 thirty five year period between nineteen sixty and nineteen ninety five. 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.440 There they went from two talk radio stations in the 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:13.400 United States as in one followed by two to more 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.880 than eleven hundred and most of those, I think about 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:20.880 seventy percent of those radio stations were conservative. That just 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:25.000 exploded in conservative talk radio with people like you know, 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.760 the King of that whole movement Rush Limbaugh. 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.520 Yeah, so they stopped enforcing in nineteen eighty seven. He 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:33.280 went on the air for the first time in nineteen 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:38.720 eighty eight, and in about six years he had a 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:43.040 three hour show every day that was broadcast live across 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.240 the nation in six hundred and fifty stations and there 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.960 are twenty million people who tuned into it. Dittoheads, he 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.240 called them. And this was like he was the first 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:56.080 person to introduce the United States to the concept of 0:07:56.200 --> 0:08:00.320 just bashing the other party. Yeah, he was the guy 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:05.720 that just laid the groundwork for this, and as a result, 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.600 he kind of because he was so popular and because 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:12.520 it was so entertaining if you shared his political views, 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.960 he basically brought the GOP to heel, Like he was 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.840 the head of the GOP de facto. So much so 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.280 that when the GOP took over in nineteen ninety four, 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.440 took over Congress, they I saw it made him an 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:30.280 honorary member of that Congress because he was considered so 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.200 responsible for getting all of those Republicans elected. 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:35.280 Wow, I didn't know that was a thing. 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.440 I didn't either. I think they actually made it up 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:38.920 for him. 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:43.920 Uh right, honorary Congress member pretty much. So yeah, that 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:48.679 was a you know, TV took notice and later, as 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:50.440 we'll see, you know, we'll get to Fox News in 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.640 a little bit after we talk about the first one CNN, 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:54.720 but later Fox News would say like, hey, here's a 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:59.280 model of you know, kind of political commentary as entertainment 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.319 we can emulate, and like, people love this guy. He's 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.920 got twenty million listeners every day, and like, imagine the 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:07.680 kind of cash we can make if we brought that 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:14.360 model to television. But first was CNN. We just lost 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.199 one of my childhood heroes growing up, Ted Turner, very 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.719 recently he passed away, like less than two weeks ago 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.480 as we record this in real time, but Ted was 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.640 the founder of CNN, the very first twenty four hour 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.440 cable news channel, and that came around in nineteen eighty 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.560 after he had made a bunch of money inheriting and 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:39.720 then running his father's billboard advertising business, and he was like, 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.360 you know what, I think we could use a twenty 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.320 four hour news cable channel. And his literal quote was 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:49.800 to bring together in brotherhood, in kindness and friendship and 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.800 in peace the people of this nation and this world. 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:54.280 That was his vision. 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.000 Ted Turner was the real deal as far as founding CNN. 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:02.880 And this was bran New Like like you said, people 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.480 tuned in at six thirty and eleven PM, and that's 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:07.880 where you got your news. Now you could tune to 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:12.440 CNN and watch news twenty four hours a day. No 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.640 one had ever done anything like that ever, And it 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:17.920 took a little while to catch on because people were like, 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:20.800 it's not a lot to watch, or I'm watching the 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:22.800 same stuff over and over again. These people seem to 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.160 be trying really hard. And then the Challenger Space Shuttle 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.880 exploded in nineteen eighty six, and that is when CNN 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.160 showed why it was around. 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.400 Yeah, for sure. And can I just have a quick 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.600 aside about Ted Turner? Oh sure, because he was if 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.480 he grew up in Atlanta in the nineteen seventies and eighties, 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.319 he was you know, a good chance he might have 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.600 been your hero like he was mine, because not only 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:53.600 did he launch CNN, but more importantly to a kid 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:57.160 like me, he was the owner at one point of 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:00.199 both the Atlanta Braves and the Atlanta Hawks, and he 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.760 launched the superstation WTBS, which was a you know, that's 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.880 where I learned about what comedy was by watching stuff 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.680 like the Carol Burnett Show and old black and white 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.400 stuff like Illigan's Island and Andy Griffith and Green Acres. 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.320 And he was just this larger than life guy. He 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.559 won an America's Cup his philanthropy. He gave a billion 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.559 dollars in nineteen ninety seven, which was unheard of it 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:24.520 at the time for somebody to give that amount of 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:29.200 money to the UN to support humanitarian aid and global 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:32.840 health and the empowerment of women and developing countries. He 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:37.280 saved the American Bison. He's just an amazing dude. And 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.040 I was at a Willie Nelson concert at an outdoor 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.400 venue at Chastain Park in Atlanta in the nineties and 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:47.040 Ted came in a little late and it was like 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:50.560 you would have thought the ghost of Elvis had walked in. 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.600 There was a murmur, like an audible murmur in the crowd, 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.480 and people like pointing to the point where Willie Nelson was, 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.640 like what's going on? When he was singing and he 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.000 finished his song and he just went, oh, Ted's here, 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.120 And it was great. It was just like he was 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.480 a He basically was Atlanta. He owned that town in 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:11.040 the in the seventies and eighties. So yeah, very sad 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:12.960 when he passed. So I just wanted to give a 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:14.040 little quick tribute. 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:19.000 Yeah, and that's fitting too, because like his that journalistic 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.480 vision of like bringing everyone together through you know, global 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.840 coverage of all the issues facing us like that, Like 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:27.920 he was a true believer in that. It wasn't like 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.319 a cynical thing where he's like, I'm really just trying 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.720 to get a license to print money. I even saw 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:38.079 Fox News article or profile on him that they ran 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.400 recently after he died, and they were even speaking about 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.920 him like respectfully as far as his journalistic integrity goes. 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:50.120 So he really did. When he founded CNN, it really 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:52.760 was like for good reason. 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.520 Yeah, So it was you know, twenty four seven news. 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.400 No one had ever seen anything like that. That was 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:05.160 the first like reporting of news in progress when something broke. 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.760 It was the first time that they had the newsticker 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:13.320 at the bottom of a screen. You know. People liked CNN. 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.600 It wasn't like it was some huge, like mad success 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.000 right off the bat. But then when things started happening 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.600 in real time in the eighties, like the Space Shuttle 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:28.960 Challenger disaster, obviously, the Berlin Wall falling when little baby 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.240 Jessica was rescued in nineteen eighty seven, and then like 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:36.560 hugely impactful when the Gulf War started. CNN was there 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:40.320 for all of that stuff, like second by second reporting, 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.480 and no one had ever seen stuff like that before, 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:44.320 no like. 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.160 And they were highly criticized for some of their reporting. 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.640 They were allowed to stay in a rock and they 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:55.439 in some ways became a propaganda arm for Saddam Hussein accidentally, 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.120 but they still like showed what you were supposed to 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:03.520 do covering a war. And also CNN was largely responsible 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.160 for making the goal for the first live televised war 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.000 in history because they covered it that much. 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:12.880 Yeah, I remember sitting around watching it with my roommates 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.600 in college, like just coming home from after class and 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.120 like putting the war on. Yep, it was really weird. 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.080 It was always on because CNN was always on covering it. 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.400 Yeah, for sure. And you know, we all should also 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:28.800 point out that there would be a change at CNN 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.280 after Turner, and we'll get to that. But if you're 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:36.520 on the right side politically and you hate CNN, that 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.480 was not Ted Turner's vision to start a left leaning 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.240 media outlet. That was not what he was trying to 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.560 do at all. So I hope those words kind of 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:46.160 come through here. 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:51.640 Sure. Sure, So there was a kind of out of 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.960 the gate an issue that CNN faced, which was if 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.720 you're covering news, like, yeah, news happens pretty frequently, but 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:04.000 four hours of coverage can be overdoing it. So rather 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.800 than just saying the same reporting over and over and 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:12.000 over again, they brought in people analysts to talk about 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.440 to kind of unpack what that news meant, maybe make 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.760 predictions about how news was going to break, like which 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:20.640 way is Congress going to vote? You know, is the 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.600 President going to veto this? And that became like an 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.240 established part of twenty four hour news and from that 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.800 moment that those people started to come in, talking heads, 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:39.280 pundits like that laid the groundwork for opinion opinion based journalism. 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.720 Yeah, for sure. It was you know, after the Gulf 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.200 War in the mid nineties, when is when things really 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.800 started to change and started to lead to our current 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.400 kind of sad state of affairs with the news cycle. 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.240 And one of those things I kind of hinted at 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.600 was when Ted Turner left Scene and Time Warner brought 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.920 out CNN in nineteen ninety six, and they were the 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.880 ones responsible for saying, like, hey, I think if we 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.160 get a little more divisive here and we lean left 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.760 of center, we can get more ad revenue. And I 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.760 mean that's kind of the the sad thing about all 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:16.640 this stuff we're going to talk about moving forward. It 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.400 was it was all money driven, you know, right, Yes, 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:21.560 it was. It was all for and still is for 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.520 advertising dollars. And at the time you had two really 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:29.920 great political foils, and Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich on 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.800 the screen. Yeah, who two very much on the opposite 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:37.240 sides of the spectrum. Guys who you know, Clinton was 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:42.040 a good villain for for Republicans and then you know 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.200 later liberals as we would learn more stuff about him, right, 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.960 and Gingrich was on the other side. Man, just he 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:52.480 really is the guy like in entrenched in politics that 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:54.720 ushered in that real good versus evil thing. 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.760 Yeah, as in the Democrats are evil, were good, It's 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.479 up to us to save America. Before that, the existential 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:06.119 threats to the United States were external, namely the USSR. 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:10.120 After Ginkrich like Rose and took power of the GOP, 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:14.160 the threat was domestic. It was the Democrats that were 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.520 the threat to America as far as the GOP was concerned. 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:18.760 That was new. Yeah, that was new, and that was 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.320 the beginning of the end of bipartisanship, whereas now today, 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.880 if you defect and vote against your own party, you're 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.680 a trader to your party, you know, not that you're 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.680 doing what your constituents think you should do or voting 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.680 by your conscience. You're a trader. That's new, and that's 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:37.439 basically where it began. 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:40.479 Yeah, I mean, I remember being a kid, and I 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.280 wasn't involved in politics when I was younger, like very 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:45.359 into that kind of thing. But I remember hearing the 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:49.960 adults during election season, not my parents because they never 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.439 talked about any of that stuff, but just other people, like, 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.359 you know, we're gonna I'm gonna see which one of 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:58.199 these men speaks to me the most, and I'm going 0:17:58.280 --> 0:17:59.720 to make up my mind on who I think is 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.000 going to be the best leader. And it's just like, 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.760 I mean, I know they're technically or probably independence today, 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:09.000 but it's hard to imagine just that being a thing 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:09.959 today at all. You know. 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.760 It's I'm sure for people who didn't grow up in 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:19.359 times where that was possible, it's very hard to imagine Yeah. 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.920 Another thing that happened in the nineties, like we talked about, 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:26.800 Rush Limbaugh was enormous. Yeah. Fox News was another huge 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.880 thing that happened when it was founded in nineteen ninety six, 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:32.600 and we'll talk about that afterward. And then I have 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.320 a pet theory, Chuck, what did you think about this? 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:36.359 I had a dealing this with you. 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:38.600 Yeah, what do you think? 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:39.479 Uh? 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:41.760 Sure, I agree. 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.720 My theory is that the Real World premiered in nineteen 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.800 ninety two, and you might say, what does that have 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.320 to do with anything, Well, it exposed people to reality television, 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:54.160 which is not real. But this idea that you can 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.199 just be horrible to other people and that's like an 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:00.879 acceptable way to be. The groundwork for that was laid around. 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:05.040 And then yeah, so you put all those things together. 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:09.159 The mid nineties were a really bad beginning. The seed, 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:14.080 the evil dark seed that rotted the core in heart 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.560 of America out that started in the mid nineties. 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.119 That's right. It sounds like a great time for a 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.200 break because you mentioned something happening in nineteen ninety six, 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:54.320 and we'll talk about that right after this, all right, 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:57.320 So before we broke, you mentioned Fox News debuting in 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:02.200 nineteen ninety six. Fuck just very quickly about Roger Ales, 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:06.360 who helped launch Fox News. He was a Republican political 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.320 consultant for many, many years. He worked. He helped to 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:13.359 get Reagan Nixon, all the way back to Nixon George H. W. 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:17.840 Bush elected. He understood that TV was a very powerful 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.639 thing as far as shaping public opinion. By this point, 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.439 he had met Rush Limbaugh in nineteen ninety one and 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:26.760 for a little while produced a TV version of Limball's 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.280 show in the early nineties. But it was in nineteen 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:34.280 ninety six when in Ozzy named Rupert Murdoch, who had 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:38.240 previously given us The Simpsons with the Fox Broadcasting Company, 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:42.000 which he launched in nineteen eighty six, the Fox Company, 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.280 he said, you know what, we need our own news station. 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.399 Let's get Fox News on the airwaves, and Roger Ayles 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:51.320 you're going to be the guy to do it. 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.879 Yeah. He designed Fox News as we understand it today, 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.240 basically right out of the gate. And one thing to 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:00.840 understand about him being a political operative who worked on 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:04.120 the Nixon campaign. That sixty eight Nixon campaign was where 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.880 a guy named Kevin Phillips came up with what's called 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:11.000 the Southern strategy today, which was essentially the idea that 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.680 politics is about who hates who and then playing on 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.920 those prejudices to get people to vote essentially about other people. 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.800 It's where the culture war started. And Roger Ayles basically 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.360 took that the politics of who hates who and put 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:28.120 it on TV as a twenty four hour cable news network. 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:29.639 Yeah, in charge for it. 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:32.959 Yeah, that's another thing too that we'll see. Like they 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:35.399 have made tons and tons of cash, but they're in 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:39.080 a really big turning point right now because of how 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:40.520 they their business model. 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:44.399 Yeah, for sure. So in the beginning they had a claim, 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:46.560 you know, Ales and Murdoch that it was going to 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:50.119 be Fox News is going to be an a political channel. Quote, 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.840 we expect to do fine balanced journalism. But behind the 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:58.560 scenes they were like, hey, we think that most mainstream 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:00.840 news outlets have a liberal bias, so we're going to 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.520 come along and correct that with Fox News. And that 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:07.479 fair and balance motto that Fox News launched under Ales 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:10.560 was a It was a literal troll to liberal critics. 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.400 It was, you know, he knew it wasn't fair and balanced, 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:16.160 and so that was his way of poking the bear. 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.479 They I think in twenty seventeen when Ales was fired 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:25.000 and the very famous or infamous rather sexual harassment scandal. 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:27.800 That's when they got rid of the fair and balance 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:29.120 tag for good. 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:33.199 Yeah, and Roger Ales and Bill O'Reilly yeah, among others. 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.880 So Ales was out, but he had been you know, 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:42.560 he had governed this thing for twenty years and like 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.520 his his vision is still still there today. Like the 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:49.240 way that he shaped it is still Fox is essentially 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:51.360 still the same thing as it was from nineteen ninety six. 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.520 It was he perfected it right out of the box, essentially, 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.359 and it really started to kind of gain traction pretty 0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:03.840 quickly after it came along because Bill Clinton handed them 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:07.679 a beautiful gift in like a Robin's egg blue Tiffany's 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:10.840 box with a beautiful bow on it, and that is 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:13.560 called the Monica Lewinsky scandal. 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:15.960 Yeah. In that box was a cigar and a blue dress. 0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:17.520 Yeah. 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:20.840 Yeah, that was you know, yeah, there's no other way 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:22.359 to look at it than a gift. Because they were 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:25.560 able to run wild with that, and they saw ratings 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:29.800 jump by four hundred percent and we're like, wow, we 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:35.239 can literally print money now, this is amazing, you know, 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:37.120 not too far on the heels of that was the 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:39.840 contested two thousand election, of which we had a complete 0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:43.920 episode of bushby Gore, and then not too long after 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:46.760 that nine to eleven and then the subsequent war in Iraq. 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:50.159 So Fox News really got off to a strong start 0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:53.200 thanks to these sort of big media events. 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:57.080 Yes, for sure. And one other thing about the same 0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:01.120 stuff too, the two thousand election nine to eleven, Fox 0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:05.040 News was reporting this from the Republican viewpoint, all of 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:08.440 these things, like they were supporting George Bush, they weren't 0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:12.679 questioning whether we should invade a rock, like this was 0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:15.760 the angle that it was coming from. And all the 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:19.600 way back then, say around two thousand, like they were 0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:25.040 the only ones just overtly producing slanted news. The other 0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:29.440 cable news and broadcast news were still trying to essentially 0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:32.320 carry out the fairness doctrine to the best of their ability. 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:34.840 Yeah, so we should point that out. But Fox News 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:38.520 really jumped ahead and was, you know, beating CNN in 0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:40.600 the ratings for the first time by two thousand and two. 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:43.639 I think they command about seventy percent of the cable 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:47.400 news audience today, right, So they're they're kicking everyone's butt 0:24:47.440 --> 0:24:51.320 on that front, right, We need to talk about MSNBC, 0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:55.560 which we'll get to the name change to ms now later. 0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.400 We'll refer to them as MSNBC in this section because 0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:02.600 it's about when they launched, which was a few months 0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:07.560 before Fox News in nineteen ninety six. I never knew 0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:09.440 that it was ms was Microsoft. 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:11.879 I think I knew that. 0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:14.800 Yeah, it was launched as a partnership with Microsoft. So 0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:18.879 MSNBC was Microsoft NBC, and they were trying to get like, 0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:21.680 you know, this was the beginning of the tech movement. 0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:25.360 They were trying to get young, tech savvy audience members. 0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:28.879 They had like shows kind of tailored to that. There 0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:32.960 was one called The Site Site with Solidad O'Brien. It 0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:35.760 did not work out. And then after that they were like, 0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:37.560 all right, you know what we need to do This 0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:42.240 saturation coverage model that CNN launched that Fox News is 0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:46.560 crushing it. But they started out doing conservative news. 0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:50.600 Yeah, they were trying to basically take Fox on where 0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:55.960 it was on its own territory. Yeah, very surprisingly, Laura 0:25:56.160 --> 0:25:59.640 Ingram and Tucker Carlson both started at MSNBC. 0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:03.600 It's funny to think about now, right, And I. 0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:07.959 Think Tucker Carlson was the one who later convinced MSNBC 0:26:08.119 --> 0:26:11.600 executives to hire Rachel Maddow. Yeah, the same year that 0:26:11.680 --> 0:26:15.520 Tucker Carlson was hired. So like MSNBC was this kind 0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:19.240 of Petrie dish for all sorts of TV on air 0:26:19.560 --> 0:26:24.600 newsy personalities. Yeah, that would become huge later on. And again, 0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:26.520 like you were saying, it was because they were basically 0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:29.480 trying to take on Fox. And that's one thing to 0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:33.840 understand about MSNBC is the moment it pivoted from trying 0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:38.399 to be like the tech the tech news channel, to 0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:44.600 you know, opinion news. It was essentially just completely agnostic. 0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:46.919 It was up for whoever was going to pay the most, 0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:49.200 which is why they tried to take on Fox, because 0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:52.400 it was clear that Fox was making the most money, right, 0:26:52.600 --> 0:26:56.120 And then they found well, actually, if we present ourselves 0:26:56.160 --> 0:27:00.320 as the antidote to Fox, like the liberal Fox, then 0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:02.680 you know, we can probably make even more money. And 0:27:02.720 --> 0:27:03.960 they did, and that's what happened. 0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:06.640 Yeah, and that's they really hit it big. In two 0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:10.280 thousand and six, when Keith Oberman hit the airwaves, he 0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:13.160 had a show called Countdown. It was a primetime show 0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:16.760 and on Countdown one week he did a rant that 0:27:16.800 --> 0:27:20.639 he called a special commentary where he was criticizing the 0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:25.119 Bush administration's handling or mishandling rather a Hurricane Katrina. And 0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:27.640 MSNBC even at that time, we're like, no, man, that's 0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:30.040 a little much like you need to tone that down. 0:27:30.480 --> 0:27:33.600 But then the ratings were going through the roof. People 0:27:33.680 --> 0:27:36.080 loved it, and so they're like, oh, okay, well, I 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:40.440 guess that's the new way forward, and go Keith Oberman. 0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:40.639 Go. 0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:45.480 Yep. They unleashed the beast, and he just set the 0:27:45.480 --> 0:27:49.359 groundwork for everybody else. And that's exactly what they were doing. 0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:53.199 During prime time. They had talking heads who hosted their 0:27:53.240 --> 0:27:59.920 own show that were just like overtly dismissing other kind 0:27:59.920 --> 0:28:02.439 of trairie opinions and talking about how dumb that was, 0:28:02.560 --> 0:28:07.760 and you know, really just trying to destabilize the opposing 0:28:07.840 --> 0:28:11.320 party's ideas. Right, Yeah, so they're there. I mean, their 0:28:11.359 --> 0:28:15.640 primetime ratings just went through the roof. Apparently, I think 0:28:15.640 --> 0:28:17.960 it went up sixty percent from two thousand and seven 0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:19.960 to two thousand and eight when they started attacking the 0:28:20.080 --> 0:28:25.199 right and also when Obama was like a candidate and 0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:27.520 then you know, president, and it was this huge thing 0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:30.199 that apparently also boosted their ratings, and I saw the 0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:35.199 MSNBC traditionally has actually done better when they're promoting a 0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:38.480 Democrat who has who's in charge of the White House 0:28:38.600 --> 0:28:42.440 or in charge of Congress, then they are bashing the right. 0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:46.120 Fox tends to do the opposite. They do better when 0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:50.560 there's a Democrat in power and they bash them, they 0:28:50.560 --> 0:28:52.160 do better when they're out of power. 0:28:53.280 --> 0:28:56.240 Yeah, well, I mean that's something we should talk about quickly. 0:28:56.240 --> 0:28:58.120 I guess it was a paper in twenty twenty five 0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:02.440 from UC Boulder finance professor named Diego Garcia who analyze 0:29:02.480 --> 0:29:05.120 like who, like what these networks are talking about, who 0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:08.120 they're talking about, and like how are they talking about them? 0:29:08.440 --> 0:29:10.760 And they found like kind of supporting what you just 0:29:10.800 --> 0:29:14.320 said that MSNBC spent the majority of their time about 0:29:14.320 --> 0:29:17.760 sixty percent of their time talking about Republicans, Fox News 0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:21.520 about the same and reverse talking about Democrats and obviously 0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:25.360 both speaking very negatively about the others. And this also 0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:29.400 trickles down to CNBC in Bloomberg and then Fox Business 0:29:29.440 --> 0:29:34.160 on the right. And that outrage like attacking the opposite side, 0:29:34.240 --> 0:29:38.680 that outrage viewership they found really sold that you know, 0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:41.840 that goes by a lot of names like rage profiteering 0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:45.800 or you know, obviously just selling anger or angertainment. I'm 0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:46.960 not a big fan of that one. 0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:49.080 What about the anger industrial complex? 0:29:49.400 --> 0:29:51.959 Yeah that's pretty good. Sure, yeah, but they found out 0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:56.720 it sells listeners, which in turn sells ads and makes money. 0:29:56.760 --> 0:29:59.280 So they really all sort of are those too. At 0:29:59.280 --> 0:30:02.000 the very least down on that. CNN is still and 0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:06.720 this isn't just us opinionizing, if they're literal media watchdogs 0:30:06.720 --> 0:30:12.240 that you know, study and rate these channels, and CNN 0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:16.840 of the big three cable news networks, is ranked you know, 0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:20.120 slightly left of center compared to more left on NBC 0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:22.320 and obviously way more right for Box News. 0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:25.320 Right. And then also bear in mind CNN typically has 0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:30.600 the lowest ratings of MSNBC and CNN. Right. Yeah, yeah, 0:30:30.680 --> 0:30:35.480 because angertainment sorry, sells like really well. And the reason 0:30:35.520 --> 0:30:38.200 why is because you get a physical like pop from 0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:43.600 being angry, like it releases neurotransmitters that make you feel 0:30:43.640 --> 0:30:48.560 good and powerful and alive again. And then you start 0:30:48.600 --> 0:30:50.280 to come down and you want it again, so you 0:30:50.320 --> 0:30:52.760 go back, You stay tuned, you stay glued for more, 0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:55.920 and like you said, that's this divide in America has 0:30:56.120 --> 0:30:58.920 just come from people who are targeting the brains of 0:30:58.960 --> 0:31:02.520 people just sing that button over and over again to 0:31:02.640 --> 0:31:06.560 keep them on the same channel for money. That's it. 0:31:06.760 --> 0:31:09.160 That's it, That's all there is to it. Yeah. 0:31:09.200 --> 0:31:11.880 I was trying my best to find out any kind 0:31:11.920 --> 0:31:16.840 of study on or just statistics on how many hours 0:31:16.840 --> 0:31:21.280 a day loyal viewers of each of these channels like 0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:24.760 has it on? And I could only just go from 0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:29.760 what I anecdotally see, which is I know people on 0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:33.920 the right that in their house like have Fox News 0:31:34.000 --> 0:31:37.400 just on as Oh yeah, that's the background music. It's 0:31:37.440 --> 0:31:39.960 on all day long. When you're passing through the room, 0:31:40.000 --> 0:31:41.600 you can just pick up a tidbit here and there, 0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:45.120 not necessarily just sitting literally and watching it eyes glued 0:31:45.160 --> 0:31:48.080 forward the entire time. But it's just on. And I 0:31:48.120 --> 0:31:51.800 don't know anybody on the left that I know that 0:31:52.520 --> 0:31:56.520 has the TV literally constantly on their favorite cable news network. 0:31:56.560 --> 0:32:00.320 It's interesting, I do. It's typically CNN that'll have that'll 0:32:00.320 --> 0:32:01.040 be on all day. 0:32:01.400 --> 0:32:03.360 H see, I don't know anyone that does that. That's 0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:05.560 good to know that that happens, but yeah, it definitely does. 0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:10.120 It seems just to me it seems unhealthy and really 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:12.920 out there to only have that on all day long. 0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:14.480 It is no matter what side. 0:32:14.280 --> 0:32:17.640 You probably deeply unhealthy. It's bad for the person, it's 0:32:17.680 --> 0:32:20.560 bad for society to have that on all day long. 0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:24.000 Yeah, any channel or any television, Oh sure for that. 0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:28.160 Totally, totally. So there was a study also that we found. 0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:30.400 It was from twenty twenty five and they looked at 0:32:30.440 --> 0:32:32.959 it was in Nature magazine or Nature of the Journal. 0:32:33.920 --> 0:32:38.520 They looked at primetime shows from twenty twelve to twenty 0:32:38.560 --> 0:32:43.120 twenty two on Fox, MSNBC, and CNN to find out 0:32:43.160 --> 0:32:46.160 which were the most polarized. They found that over those 0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:51.000 ten years, Fox had the largest number of highly polarizing 0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:55.360 shows Sean Hannity, The O'Reilly Factor, Tucker Carls and Laura Ingram, 0:32:56.160 --> 0:33:02.280 but stnn's Cuomo Prime Time MSNBC's Deadline White House were 0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:06.240 the most polarizing shows across all three networks. Oh, interesting, 0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:09.440 there's something else to unpack their two Chuck, These are 0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:13.560 primetime shows. Yeah, that is a that's new as well. 0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:17.000 That means that people like this is where these these 0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:20.800 cable networks make like the bulk of their advertising revenue 0:33:20.920 --> 0:33:25.120 is prime time. That means that people left entertainment, They 0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:29.040 left cop shows, court shows, medical dramas, and moved over 0:33:29.160 --> 0:33:32.920 to news cable news. That's what they watch in primetime. 0:33:33.000 --> 0:33:37.920 Now that's just boring, But it's not though. It's like 0:33:38.160 --> 0:33:40.880 for me, like your your buttons are just pressed over 0:33:40.920 --> 0:33:41.760 and over and over. 0:33:41.960 --> 0:33:45.719 Yeah, you know, yeah for sure. Uh. You know. One 0:33:45.720 --> 0:33:47.720 thing we do need to point out though, because these 0:33:47.720 --> 0:33:51.520 are primetime shows that like it's changing the political landscape 0:33:51.520 --> 0:33:54.800 and how our country like thinks about our fellow citizens. 0:33:54.840 --> 0:33:57.800 So it's an important thing to address. Some of the 0:33:57.840 --> 0:34:01.760 stuff you see on Fox News is not based in truth. 0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:04.800 And that is not just my opinion as somebody who's 0:34:04.880 --> 0:34:08.160 clearly on the left side of things. You need only 0:34:08.239 --> 0:34:12.120 look at something like the eight one hundred million dollar 0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:15.440 like close to a billion dollar settlement to avoid a 0:34:15.600 --> 0:34:18.759 very public, highly anticipated trial where they were going to 0:34:18.800 --> 0:34:21.959 have to trot up, you know, Chucker Carlson and Sean 0:34:22.040 --> 0:34:24.480 Hannity and like put these people on the stand to 0:34:24.560 --> 0:34:29.400 talk about the literal lies they told about dominion voting systems. 0:34:29.840 --> 0:34:32.400 So that trial was coming up, and they're like, no, no, no, 0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:34.319 that would be really bad if we had to go 0:34:34.400 --> 0:34:37.400 up on the stand and admit under oath that we 0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:39.799 lied about all this stuff. So let's just settle for 0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:43.840 eight hundred million dollars and never even fully admit wrongdoing. 0:34:44.520 --> 0:34:46.920 Yeah, I mean it's not just that one, like the 0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:49.400 cover up, the idea that there was a cover up 0:34:49.400 --> 0:34:53.520 over Benghazi, conspiracy theories about the death of Seth Rich, 0:34:54.400 --> 0:34:57.960 the Birther conspiracy theory, all these things reported on lie 0:34:58.080 --> 0:35:03.640 that Donald Trump had the twenty twenty elections stolen from him. 0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:07.799 Like these things were reported right, not like, hey, this 0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:10.120 is what some people are saying, Like these were reported 0:35:10.680 --> 0:35:14.400 as fact, right, And so this is that part of 0:35:14.640 --> 0:35:18.120 the twisting or the separating of the shared reality that 0:35:18.320 --> 0:35:21.800 has like scholars concerned, just everyday people who know about 0:35:21.800 --> 0:35:27.799 this concerned, and like it's typically viewed from what I've 0:35:27.840 --> 0:35:31.759 seen as a false equivocation to say, well, MSNBC does 0:35:31.800 --> 0:35:36.320 that too. Nobody does it like Fox does. They just don't. 0:35:36.800 --> 0:35:40.760 That's just fact. But that's not to say it doesn't 0:35:40.800 --> 0:35:45.120 happen on other networks like MSNBC. One really stand out 0:35:45.200 --> 0:35:49.319 example is the Russia Gate episode with Rachel Maddow, who 0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:54.200 was covering the molar investigation. Is basically like here, it 0:35:54.239 --> 0:35:56.960 comes any moment, Now they're going to show that Trump 0:35:57.080 --> 0:36:00.000 is this puppet that's being directed by the Kremlin, and 0:36:00.239 --> 0:36:02.759 was really like so much so she got sued for 0:36:02.920 --> 0:36:07.400 sixty seven million dollars Reliable and she beat that, but 0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:10.360 you know, it was still it had legs like she 0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:15.080 was really really promoting this conspiracy theory. And yes it 0:36:15.120 --> 0:36:18.440 was tied to Robert Mueller's actual investigation and that actually 0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:21.800 was happening, but the leaps and bounds and like intimation 0:36:22.000 --> 0:36:24.800 she was making just went well beyond any kind of 0:36:24.880 --> 0:36:28.279 journalistic standard. And then there's one other thing Chuck too, 0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:32.120 that all three do, and that is essentially filtering what 0:36:32.320 --> 0:36:36.600 makes it on there? Right, So, like say CNN decides 0:36:36.640 --> 0:36:39.480 that they're not going to put some negative coverage of 0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:43.960 Barack Obama on and instead they're going to either just 0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:46.880 not cover that or they're going to cover positive coverage 0:36:46.920 --> 0:36:50.560 of him. Right, that's filtering. You're filtering news to help 0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:54.879 promote like a favored candidate. And when you're doing opinion journalism, 0:36:55.480 --> 0:36:58.000 you have a favorite candidate, you have a candidate that 0:36:58.040 --> 0:37:01.480 you hate, and your point is to teach your viewers 0:37:01.680 --> 0:37:05.880 to love that candidate or hate that candidate. That's just 0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:08.480 that arises from it naturally. 0:37:09.160 --> 0:37:11.600 Yeah, there was a study in twenty twenty three where 0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:16.439 they paid Fox News viewers, like conservative people. They paid 0:37:16.480 --> 0:37:18.640 them to watch CNN for a month for thirty days 0:37:18.680 --> 0:37:21.560 to see what effect that had on their political views. 0:37:22.160 --> 0:37:26.719 And what they found was they were seeing news that 0:37:26.960 --> 0:37:29.600 Fox News didn't even cover. That's part of that filtering. 0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:31.759 They were like, oh, well, we didn't know this was 0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:34.880 happening because Fox News just literally wouldn't cover it. Yeah, 0:37:34.920 --> 0:37:37.880 they filter out that stuff to fit a narrative. And 0:37:39.400 --> 0:37:44.320 I after the month, they had a slightly lower opinion 0:37:44.680 --> 0:37:49.280 of Donald Trump, these conservatives did, and a slightly higher opinion. 0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:51.040 And this was at the time in twenty twenty three 0:37:51.080 --> 0:37:53.440 when mail in balloting was a big deal, a slightly 0:37:53.480 --> 0:37:56.239 higher opinion of mail in ballots. But then they also 0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:59.200 said in the follow up it was like a short 0:37:59.239 --> 0:38:01.080 lived thing once they went back to Fox News, and 0:38:01.080 --> 0:38:03.000 you know, that stuff went away. But you know, this 0:38:03.120 --> 0:38:05.160 is something I see a lot when I'm I see 0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:07.560 a story or I'm like, well, here's a big factual 0:38:07.600 --> 0:38:10.920 thing that happened. That's a big black eye, and I 0:38:10.960 --> 0:38:13.719 will go see and a lot of times and this 0:38:13.800 --> 0:38:18.680 is online. Foxnews dot Com just literally just doesn't cover it, right, 0:38:18.880 --> 0:38:20.880 like at all. It's just not there, like it didn't happen. 0:38:21.200 --> 0:38:23.360 And if you're only getting your news from one source 0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:26.799 and you don't know that something is literally happening because 0:38:26.840 --> 0:38:29.920 it's not being covered, that's bad for democracy. 0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:33.120 For sure, you know, yeah, because you're you just yeah, 0:38:33.360 --> 0:38:36.280 you can't hold somebody accountable if you're not actually reporting 0:38:36.320 --> 0:38:39.399 on the bad stuff too. You know, should we take 0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:42.479 a break, Yeah, let's take a break, all right. 0:38:42.400 --> 0:39:14.560 We'll be right back, So, Chuck, we talked about opinion media. 0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:17.200 I've been calling opinion journalism, and I think that's actually 0:39:17.239 --> 0:39:20.959 a contradiction in terms. Yeah, so opinion media, like we said, 0:39:20.960 --> 0:39:23.839 it's just basically like putting somebody who's willing to say 0:39:23.920 --> 0:39:27.240 stuff about you know, they're fairly knowledgeable about a particular 0:39:27.280 --> 0:39:30.120 topic and they're going to say something and maybe it's 0:39:30.160 --> 0:39:34.480 even a controversial opinion. Like, that's opinion media. And it 0:39:34.560 --> 0:39:37.959 is so much cheaper than actual journalism, which is one 0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:41.440 reason why it's just such a huge prominent part of 0:39:41.480 --> 0:39:43.000 prime time on cable news. 0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:47.200 Yeah. Cheaper meaning inexpensive, not like a cheap shot just 0:39:47.200 --> 0:39:50.120 to clear that up. Like real journalism takes a lot 0:39:50.120 --> 0:39:53.880 of time, which gets expensive. You have to conduct interviews, 0:39:53.920 --> 0:39:55.600 and you have to research real data, and you have 0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:57.920 to fact check, and you have to cultivate your sources. 0:39:58.760 --> 0:40:01.719 If you just throw someone on who's like, hey, I'm 0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:03.920 mad about this thing, I'll go on TV and talk 0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:07.480 about it like I'm a famous quote unquote journalist, Like 0:40:07.560 --> 0:40:09.480 that's super cheap. All you have to do is kind 0:40:09.480 --> 0:40:11.799 of frame the bare bones of a story and then 0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:16.600 rant about it, and that negative negativity really sells. There 0:40:16.640 --> 0:40:20.279 was an analysis into twenty eleven where a researcher examine 0:40:20.800 --> 0:40:24.440 the primetime lineups of the two really big opposing sides, 0:40:24.480 --> 0:40:29.560 Fox News and MSNBC, and they were obviously ideologically opposed, 0:40:29.600 --> 0:40:33.239 but they were Fox News was as far as the 0:40:33.280 --> 0:40:35.720 tone and language they use, was ninety two percent negative, 0:40:36.120 --> 0:40:39.160 eight percent neutral, and zero percent positive. On the other side, 0:40:39.360 --> 0:40:42.719 MSNBC was ninety percent negative, five percent neutral, and five 0:40:42.760 --> 0:40:47.680 percent positive. And it's that cultivation of anger that in 0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:51.319 fear that very sadly, that's what drives the loyalty in 0:40:51.360 --> 0:40:52.680 the viewership these days. 0:40:52.600 --> 0:40:56.040 Exactly because again, the anger is an addictive thing and 0:40:56.080 --> 0:40:58.200 they know how to press those buttons. One of the 0:40:58.200 --> 0:41:01.080 ways they do press the buttons too. This is groundbreaking 0:41:01.120 --> 0:41:05.120 as far as journalism goes. They've helped us with this. 0:41:05.200 --> 0:41:06.759 And the way that he put it was they make 0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:10.120 you the viewer the protagonist. Yeah, so that means that 0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:14.319 this news that's happening, it's happening to you. The Democrats 0:41:14.360 --> 0:41:16.800 are doing this to you. They're trying to take money 0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:19.640 out of your pocket or vice versa. You know, the 0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:25.880 GOP is trying to drive this country into fascism and authoritarianism. Like, like, 0:41:26.040 --> 0:41:29.040 it's you that this is happening to Your family's going 0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:31.480 to get, you know, taken by in the middle of 0:41:31.560 --> 0:41:35.480 the night by the jack boots or something like that. Right, Yeah, 0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:40.840 So like that's new and that huts through like directly 0:41:40.880 --> 0:41:43.040 to the person. So if you're pressing someone's buttons to 0:41:43.080 --> 0:41:45.640 try to make them angry, talking to them directly and 0:41:45.640 --> 0:41:49.200 saying you are the victim, that will get things going 0:41:49.280 --> 0:41:52.239 pretty easily. That primes the old pump pretty well. 0:41:52.920 --> 0:41:56.560 Yeah for sure, you know. I mean, I think that's 0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:58.400 one of the saddest things about all this is the 0:41:58.440 --> 0:42:02.279 fact that that negative content is what sells, and that's 0:42:02.400 --> 0:42:04.960 just the reality of kind of where we are. But 0:42:05.040 --> 0:42:09.239 that has fueled a partisan gap that is like we've 0:42:09.360 --> 0:42:11.600 not seen at any other time in our history. And there, 0:42:11.920 --> 0:42:14.360 you know, it's always there's always been a Parson divides, 0:42:14.880 --> 0:42:17.160 but not like we have now. There was a Pew 0:42:17.400 --> 0:42:20.640 Research study on that Parson divide in nineteen ninety four, 0:42:21.040 --> 0:42:24.560 and this was before Fox News and MSNBC launched, because 0:42:24.560 --> 0:42:26.600 I think they launched in ninety six, like we said, 0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:29.799 but fewer at the time, fewer than twenty percent of 0:42:29.840 --> 0:42:34.560 either Republicans or Democrats view the opposing party as very unfavorable. 0:42:35.440 --> 0:42:39.160 By twenty seventeen, that number was forty five percent, so 0:42:39.200 --> 0:42:42.719 more than doubled. Also, that's from that same study. In 0:42:42.760 --> 0:42:47.040 nineteen ninety four, only sixty percent of Republicans identified themselves 0:42:47.480 --> 0:42:53.080 as quote more consistently conservative than the average Democrat. By 0:42:53.200 --> 0:42:57.360 twenty seventeen, that number had reached ninety five percent, and 0:42:57.400 --> 0:43:00.920 on the Democrat side, ninety seven percent identified as more 0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:05.920 consistently liberal than the average Republican, up from seventy percent 0:43:06.000 --> 0:43:10.520 in nineteen ninety four. So you know, they're both according 0:43:10.520 --> 0:43:12.680 to their mandates, they're both doing what they want to 0:43:12.719 --> 0:43:13.520 do very well. 0:43:14.080 --> 0:43:17.080 Yeah, I also saw to update it a little bit. 0:43:17.080 --> 0:43:21.520 In twenty twenty two, seventy two percent of GOP respondents 0:43:21.520 --> 0:43:25.879 said that Democrats were immoral, and sixty three percent said 0:43:25.880 --> 0:43:29.839 that of Democrats said that Republicans were immoral. Yeah, that 0:43:29.960 --> 0:43:33.880 is a character like attack. Yeah, not like you have 0:43:33.920 --> 0:43:36.120 stupid ideas or you're gonna, you know. 0:43:36.320 --> 0:43:37.680 Waste our country. 0:43:37.920 --> 0:43:42.759 Yeah, you are a bad person, your morals are compromised, 0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:45.560 maybe you don't even have any morals. That is a 0:43:45.960 --> 0:43:49.840 totally different level of attack. And we're talking about this 0:43:49.920 --> 0:43:54.920 American calling that American that because they believed something different politically, 0:43:55.280 --> 0:43:58.319 and all of this again is being fostered, supported and 0:43:58.440 --> 0:44:02.240 stoked by the for our cable news that different sides 0:44:02.560 --> 0:44:03.880 watch all the time. 0:44:04.280 --> 0:44:07.080 Yeah, it's not I mean I kind of thought before 0:44:07.120 --> 0:44:09.759 we looked into this stuff and the actual data that 0:44:09.880 --> 0:44:13.160 like online, you know, because things are so siloed online 0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:16.080 as far as the echo chamber goes. If you get 0:44:16.080 --> 0:44:21.319 your news from the internet or social media especially, but 0:44:21.400 --> 0:44:23.799 there was a study from University of Pennsylvania that found 0:44:23.840 --> 0:44:27.719 that cable TV news is way more divisive. Only four 0:44:27.760 --> 0:44:31.480 percent of Americans get their online news, so you know, 0:44:31.560 --> 0:44:34.200 social media or whatever. Online from predominantly left or right 0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:38.040 leaning sources, compared to seventeen percent of Americans that said 0:44:38.040 --> 0:44:40.800 they got fifty percent of more of their TV news 0:44:40.840 --> 0:44:44.600 from a very hard right or very hard left network. 0:44:44.840 --> 0:44:47.920 Yeah, and half watched Fox News. The other half watched 0:44:48.000 --> 0:44:49.400 MSNBC or CNN. 0:44:49.680 --> 0:44:50.720 Yep, right down the middle. 0:44:50.960 --> 0:44:54.600 Yeah. I mean. One of the other things too, is 0:44:54.600 --> 0:44:58.799 like Foxes gets criticized and criticized, and yes, they were innovators, pioneers. 0:44:59.280 --> 0:45:03.840 They completely change journalism and they do stuff that CNN 0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:06.840 and MSNBC don't do. But it just makes you wonder, 0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:10.440 like how different would things be today if CNN and 0:45:10.640 --> 0:45:15.799 MSNBC had just stuck to good journalism and just let 0:45:15.840 --> 0:45:18.760 Fox do their own thing. The fact that they entrenched 0:45:18.800 --> 0:45:20.960 and dug in on the other side because they wanted 0:45:20.960 --> 0:45:23.919 advertising dollars too, And there's a whole untapped market out 0:45:23.920 --> 0:45:27.239 there of liberals and left leaning people that aren't being 0:45:27.239 --> 0:45:32.279 spoken to if they had just kept their their journalistic integrity, 0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:34.520 Like what kind of Like I don't think we would 0:45:34.520 --> 0:45:35.720 be in this mess today. 0:45:36.640 --> 0:45:39.120 Yeah, I mean, you don't watch this stuff. To you, 0:45:39.239 --> 0:45:43.239 I haven't turned on a cable news network in I 0:45:43.280 --> 0:45:44.800 don't know since the early two thousands. 0:45:44.800 --> 0:45:49.040 Maybe I've definitely watched it much more recent than that, 0:45:49.080 --> 0:45:52.000 But I mean, I think once, once, once I realized, 0:45:52.000 --> 0:45:53.920 and I think this is typically the case for people, 0:45:54.120 --> 0:45:57.560 Like the point is to upset you and make you mad. 0:45:57.880 --> 0:45:59.799 That's what they're trying to do. That's the whole thing. 0:46:00.600 --> 0:46:02.759 It's tough not to resent that and just be like, 0:46:02.800 --> 0:46:04.440 I'm not subjecting myself to this. 0:46:04.840 --> 0:46:07.360 Yeah, I think for me was when you could really 0:46:07.760 --> 0:46:10.839 source your news, very specifically online is when that's when 0:46:10.840 --> 0:46:12.440 I fully like made that switch. 0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:19.080 Right, So, cable news is actually doing pretty good right now, 0:46:19.480 --> 0:46:24.480 even though cable as a whole is losing viewership. More 0:46:24.480 --> 0:46:28.680 and more people are cutting chords. I think, like more 0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:31.920 people are getting their news and information online, even though 0:46:31.960 --> 0:46:35.800 it's still smaller relative to the number of people who 0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:40.719 get their news from cable news. It's the proportions. The 0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:43.960 trends are shifting, and one of the reasons why is 0:46:44.040 --> 0:46:49.480 because cable news viewers are literally dying off. Right, for 0:46:49.520 --> 0:46:52.360 the most part, the median ages of CNN, Fox, and 0:46:52.480 --> 0:46:58.319 MSNBC viewers are sixty seven, sixty eight, and seventy one. Right, Yeah, 0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:01.600 those people aren't going to live for and as they 0:47:01.640 --> 0:47:05.600 as they start to pass away, there's not new people 0:47:05.640 --> 0:47:09.000 who are younger coming in behind them. That's not where 0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:11.399 younger people are going. First of all, they don't even 0:47:11.440 --> 0:47:14.160 have cable anymore. And secondly, if they do, they're not 0:47:14.239 --> 0:47:17.160 going to watch cable news necessarily. They're probably going to 0:47:17.200 --> 0:47:18.960 be online getting their news. 0:47:19.200 --> 0:47:22.640 Yeah, for sure. And you know, viewership is declining. Fox 0:47:22.719 --> 0:47:25.680 News is seeing has seen the most dramatic decline. They 0:47:25.719 --> 0:47:29.880 were down twenty one percent in total primetime viewership compared 0:47:29.880 --> 0:47:33.399 to the same weeks year over year February to well, 0:47:33.440 --> 0:47:36.440 February to February twenty five to twenty six, and then 0:47:37.040 --> 0:47:41.400 in twenty twenty five that is when MSNBC late I 0:47:41.400 --> 0:47:43.960 guess late last year is when they parted ways with 0:47:44.040 --> 0:47:47.960 their NBC News parent company, and that's when they relaunched 0:47:48.000 --> 0:47:54.120 is what is now ms now. Their viewership actually looks 0:47:54.120 --> 0:47:56.840 like that might have worked. They increased by fifteen percent 0:47:56.920 --> 0:47:59.960 year over year for the same timeframe, and CNN is 0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:02.600 the one that's really jumped up. They saw a forty 0:48:02.640 --> 0:48:05.200 six percent year of a year increase over that same period. 0:48:05.520 --> 0:48:07.680 Yea, And I think one reason why Fox is declining 0:48:07.719 --> 0:48:11.799 relative to ms now in CNN is because there's Newsmax 0:48:11.880 --> 0:48:14.560 News Nation one American news network. 0:48:14.400 --> 0:48:16.640 Right, three further outlets. 0:48:16.719 --> 0:48:19.200 Yeah right, they were like, you thought Fox was hard, right, 0:48:19.280 --> 0:48:22.799 watch this. Yeah, Fox suddenly seems centrist compared to those guys. 0:48:22.840 --> 0:48:27.560 So they're dragging a lot of people away from Fox News. 0:48:27.560 --> 0:48:29.240 I think that's a big problem for Fox. 0:48:29.640 --> 0:48:31.520 Yeah. They lost some of their stars too. You know 0:48:31.600 --> 0:48:34.719 when Tucker Carlson left, and obviously before that, what was 0:48:34.760 --> 0:48:38.760 his face, Bill O'Reilly was. Yeah, those were big losses 0:48:38.760 --> 0:48:39.800 for that network. 0:48:39.880 --> 0:48:43.640 For sure, and I think losing Roger Als two probably 0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:45.200 was a big deal for it too. 0:48:45.280 --> 0:48:45.800 Yeah. 0:48:45.920 --> 0:48:49.760 Good point. But also their whole their whole business model 0:48:49.800 --> 0:48:53.279 we were talking about earlier is in jeopardy because like 0:48:53.480 --> 0:48:57.160 they make money through advertisers, true, but their advertisers are 0:48:57.160 --> 0:48:59.880 from viewers, right, and so a fewer people are buying, 0:49:00.640 --> 0:49:04.839 they have fewer viewers. They also make money from subscriptions, right. 0:49:04.960 --> 0:49:07.400 So when you pay for your cable and you're like, 0:49:07.440 --> 0:49:10.000 I have to pay my cable bill to the cable company, 0:49:10.280 --> 0:49:13.120 you're actually not. You're paying the cable company a fraction 0:49:13.239 --> 0:49:15.640 of that. The rest is being divided up among all 0:49:15.640 --> 0:49:18.280 the cable channels who charge a fee to be included 0:49:18.320 --> 0:49:21.200 in this bundle. That's the wholesale business model. That's what 0:49:21.360 --> 0:49:27.200 cable news does, all cable channels do. That's with cable dying, 0:49:27.280 --> 0:49:29.200 they're not going to be able to do that anymore. 0:49:29.560 --> 0:49:31.960 Now They're going to have to be like, actually, we 0:49:32.000 --> 0:49:34.959 want to charge you directly like Netflix or Hulu does 0:49:35.200 --> 0:49:38.120 to get Fox we're going to be streaming online, right 0:49:38.200 --> 0:49:40.879 or to get CNN. Say, they're in the same jeopardy too, 0:49:42.200 --> 0:49:44.640 And that means people who are going to be like, wait, 0:49:44.719 --> 0:49:47.319 I got Fox News for free before. You didn't really 0:49:47.400 --> 0:49:49.040 because it was part of cable you were paying for, 0:49:49.560 --> 0:49:52.200 but to you it was free, and now Fox is 0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:55.879 asking you to pay, you know, twelve bucks a month 0:49:56.000 --> 0:49:57.920 or something like that to get it. Some people will 0:49:57.960 --> 0:50:00.800 do that, some people won't. So there really kind of 0:50:00.840 --> 0:50:04.759 worried about that, and not just Fox again, MSNBC and 0:50:04.800 --> 0:50:08.319 CNN are facing the same crisis, just apparently to a 0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:09.919 slightly lesser degree right now. 0:50:10.360 --> 0:50:12.279 Right but the writing's on the wall for everybody, and 0:50:12.320 --> 0:50:14.120 they're all trying to pivot a little bit to the 0:50:14.160 --> 0:50:19.680 more online model, even in little ways like CNN prioritizing 0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:24.640 vertical video podcast. You know, MSNBC has a lot of 0:50:24.880 --> 0:50:28.360 very popular podcasts. Rachel Maddow is at the center, you know, 0:50:28.400 --> 0:50:31.319 their world podcast wise. But those have found like big 0:50:31.360 --> 0:50:34.640 time audiences, so they're you know, they they know what's 0:50:34.680 --> 0:50:38.560 coming and they know that. I think three quarters of 0:50:38.560 --> 0:50:42.160 the baby boomer generation are going to be gone by 0:50:42.280 --> 0:50:44.480 the year twenty thirty seven, and that's a big chunk 0:50:44.520 --> 0:50:46.240 of all these audiences for sure. 0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:50.000 One last thing, something occurred to me while I was 0:50:50.040 --> 0:50:54.239 researching this chuck that there is a silver lining. There's 0:50:54.280 --> 0:50:59.640 a good thing to this huge partisan divide of one 0:50:59.680 --> 0:51:02.560 side versus the other that cable news has helped bring about, 0:51:03.680 --> 0:51:06.520 and that is that it is carved out a middle 0:51:07.160 --> 0:51:11.000 of people who are like, wow, Democrats and Republicans are 0:51:11.120 --> 0:51:14.440 terrible and they suck as both parties, which to me 0:51:14.520 --> 0:51:17.800 has opened like a room for a viable third party 0:51:17.880 --> 0:51:21.040 to start to develop, maybe multiple third parties start to 0:51:21.080 --> 0:51:23.879 develop and actually get rid of like the two party 0:51:23.920 --> 0:51:26.560 system might have shot itself in the foot by going 0:51:26.680 --> 0:51:31.480 so full on tribal. That's my hope. That's I'm hoping 0:51:31.520 --> 0:51:33.719 that at least that good comes out of this. 0:51:34.200 --> 0:51:36.680 Yeah, me too, because none of it's any good for 0:51:36.880 --> 0:51:38.239 our country, you know. 0:51:38.520 --> 0:51:43.359 It genuinely isn't. It genuinely isn't. And to our conservative, 0:51:43.400 --> 0:51:47.120 Republican right on the right listeners like this is not 0:51:47.200 --> 0:51:50.240 an attack on you or your beliefs, and us throwing 0:51:50.320 --> 0:51:52.960 Rachel Maddow into the mix was not just bait for 0:51:53.040 --> 0:51:56.160 the right to you left leaning listeners like she really 0:51:56.160 --> 0:51:59.719 did overdo Russiagate, Like we tried to do this as 0:52:00.120 --> 0:52:03.399 a and balanced as we possibly could, so please don't 0:52:03.440 --> 0:52:04.839 have taken it any other way. 0:52:05.440 --> 0:52:07.440 Yeah, we say, flush all three down the. 0:52:07.360 --> 0:52:10.280 Toilet, exactly, Chuck, exactly. 0:52:12.400 --> 0:52:15.399 Oh man, what a that's a fun episode. I enjoyed 0:52:15.440 --> 0:52:15.920 this one. 0:52:16.160 --> 0:52:18.799 Well, I'm glad you did, Chuck. I think you just 0:52:18.920 --> 0:52:21.120 accidentally walked right into listener mail. 0:52:21.120 --> 0:52:26.680 Then all right, I'm gonna call this a follow up 0:52:27.040 --> 0:52:30.640 about the Hindenburg episode. Hey, guys, just finished listening to 0:52:30.680 --> 0:52:33.160 the Hindenburg. Great stuff. One thing that really got me 0:52:33.239 --> 0:52:37.360 laughing was the Bend Dover comments. Magically, I have an 0:52:37.400 --> 0:52:40.680 adult friend whose name is Ben Dover. As you can imagine, 0:52:40.719 --> 0:52:42.919 he's a great guy. As I think anyone with names 0:52:42.920 --> 0:52:45.279 like that could be teased or made fun of. Turn 0:52:45.320 --> 0:52:47.560 Out to be amazing people usually, so shout out to 0:52:47.600 --> 0:52:49.719 all the Bendovers out there in the world, including my 0:52:49.800 --> 0:52:53.120 friend Nice, longtime listener, and I work as a wildlife biologist. 0:52:53.120 --> 0:52:55.240 In the first time, I was introduced to your shows 0:52:55.280 --> 0:52:57.919 during a long drive to get a California condor sick 0:52:57.960 --> 0:53:00.600 with lead poisoning from northern California back to the San 0:53:00.640 --> 0:53:05.560 Diego Zoo to keep habituating the bird. We drove many 0:53:05.640 --> 0:53:08.080 hours with the bird in a crate in the back 0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:10.920 of the suv and absolute silence into past time. My 0:53:11.040 --> 0:53:14.640 coworker and I shared one side of corded earbuds and 0:53:14.719 --> 0:53:18.759 alternated between our favorite podcasts. This is long before smartphones 0:53:19.120 --> 0:53:21.840 are an everyday occurrence and people could listen to whatever whenever. 0:53:22.200 --> 0:53:24.040 I'm now a mom and still find ourselves on long 0:53:24.120 --> 0:53:26.440 drives because we live in a pretty remote place. My 0:53:26.520 --> 0:53:31.320 family also listens and loves a podcast because its informational, interesting, 0:53:31.440 --> 0:53:33.040 and kid friendly, and we hope to make it to 0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:35.560 a live show the next time you're close by. Thanks 0:53:35.560 --> 0:53:37.799 for all you do and keeping us company over so 0:53:37.840 --> 0:53:40.360 many years and so many miles. That is from Katie. 0:53:40.880 --> 0:53:43.600 Oh thanks a lot, Katie. That was is it? Katie? 0:53:43.680 --> 0:53:45.960 Or kt Katie. 0:53:46.120 --> 0:53:49.959 Okay, thank you, Katie. That was a very cute little 0:53:49.960 --> 0:53:51.200 sketch that you made for us. 0:53:51.239 --> 0:53:51.439 There. 0:53:51.560 --> 0:53:53.640 I can just imagine you and your coworker each with 0:53:53.719 --> 0:53:54.280 the earbud. 0:53:54.560 --> 0:53:55.000 I love that. 0:53:55.840 --> 0:53:57.560 If you want to be like Katie and get in 0:53:57.600 --> 0:54:00.400 touch with us with a cute little anecdote, we love those. 0:54:00.880 --> 0:54:02.720 You can wrap it up, spank it on the bottom, 0:54:02.760 --> 0:54:09.160 and send it off to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. 0:54:09.320 --> 0:54:12.200 Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 0:54:12.280 --> 0:54:16.480 more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:54:16.600 --> 0:54:18.440 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.