WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: How Napster Worked 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.240 Welcome to tex Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:14.000 How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tex Stuff. 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.599 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.959 iHeart Radio and I love all things tech. And you 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:24.479 know what, guys, there was a time where I was 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:28.479 absolutely enthralled with pirates, but those were pirates on the 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.400 high seas. When I was in college, there was a 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:35.760 totally different type of piracy that was running rampant across 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.479 the networks, and that was the theft of intellectual property. 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:45.760 So today we're taking a classic look at how Napster worked. Now, 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:51.080 this episode originally published on April third, two thirteen. So 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.160 let's listen to this classic episode of tech Stuff. Napster 0:00:55.760 --> 0:01:00.240 and Napster's Um, it's got a bad rap. It's kind 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.200 of becomes synonymous with, at least the old Napster. The 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:08.160 original Napster becomes synonymous with things like piracy. Although in 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.280 the lawless days of the Internet when everyone just stole 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:16.080 from Lars Ulric, Yes, in fact, he ended up delivering 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:21.200 a lawsuit by hand too, so full of ire he was, Yes, 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:26.080 he took this. I think I don't know. I don't 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:29.920 know that I don't know that even a number of 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:34.160 Metallica can carry a sixty thousand page maybe by hand truck, 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:36.080 I'm not sure. I'm not sure by hand, but sure 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.640 series of CDs. Yeah. So anyway, let's talk about Napster 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.800 and what it was and what it is today, because 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:47.560 it's it's definitely changed quite a bit. So it's a 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.080 it's it's all about really it's all about music. It's 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.800 technically it's about file sharing, but those files are were 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.880 essentially music files MP three files. Napster limited itself to 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.480 MP three files. Lots whether peer to peer sharing networks used, 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.040 you know, you could you could get movies on there 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.760 are all kinds of stuff, games, everything, any kind of file. Well, 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.640 Napster was all about all about m P three's and 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:15.360 and you have to understand, like the the days when 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.760 we first start looking at this idea, that's way back 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:25.320 in the late nineties. Back then, music was not something 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.160 that you could easily get on the internet. And it 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.160 was first of all, anything that was on a web 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.760 page was MIDI based or whatever it was, or mod based. 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.840 It was just it was not anywhere close to CD quality. 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.399 We didn't have an iTunes store that kind of thing. Yeah, 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.000 there wasn't, you know, but there were people who they 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.200 were then did I just say completely, I just said 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:49.480 that when iTunes was founded, that's a different show. So anyway, 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.239 there's a whole you know. iTunes for a long time 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.320 was just a jukebox type of program where you would 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:59.440 manage the music that you already had. It wasn't a 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:01.640 store where you would buy new music. It was it 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.680 was a management system. So really, at this time, the 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:07.600 way you would get if you were someone who wanted 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.280 to get a music file, you would essentially have to 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.480 search around for someone who was hosting music files on 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.560 a website somewhere and then download them. And these these 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:21.080 websites were very much unreliable, and uh, this is what 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.320 got a certain guy thinking about different ways of going 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:27.640 about it. The guy's name was Shan Fanning. Yeah, and 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.640 as he got his first computer and very shortly after 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:35.520 that created napstairs. So that was yeah, it was within 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.480 two years he had gone from getting his first computer 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:43.280 to creating one of the most influential and notorious web 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.680 services and programs of all time. Yeah. He got his 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:52.240 computer from his uncle John Fanning, who ended up being Yeah, yeah, 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.520 he he provided the seed money for for Napster in 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.240 a couple of years. Yet he was also not just 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.000 interested in programming right off the bat, but also interesting 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.040 it an Internet Relay Chat i r S, which is, 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:06.120 you know, one of many different protocols that allow you 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:10.080 to communicate over the Internet and um in an instant 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.480 instant messages. Yeah, exactly as opposed to like email or 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:15.760 something along those lines. And he got interested in the 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:19.640 field of Internet security. And uh. He described to himself 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.039 at the time as a white hat, not a hacker. 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.599 So the idea being that he was interested in finding 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:29.400 ways to make internet security more robust, so in helping people, 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.320 not not stealing from people, right like not like he 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:34.640 might look at a system and say, oh, you have 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.600 a vulnerability here, you need to patch it, as opposed to, oh, 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:41.360 you have a vulnerability here, give me all your things. Um. 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.440 That was kind of his his at least that's what 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.160 he said, and I have no reason to doubt him. Um. 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:50.160 But he met virtually a fellow named Sean Parker online 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:52.400 in those days, and Sean Parker also becomes important in 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:57.520 the Napster story. So in ninety eight, he was starting 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:02.440 to think about this thing that music files. And by 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:04.880 the way, this kid is a teenager. I mean, you know, 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:06.640 if I'm using the word kid, it's not just because 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:08.320 I use that word for everybody. It's because he was 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.200 literally like seventeen to nineteen at the time. Yeah, he was. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:16.200 He was, well, that was when he was eighteen turning nineteen. Uh, 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:21.800 and he he was a freshman at Northeastern University in Boston, 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.760 and he knew that there were a lot of kids 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.279 his age really interested in music and they really wanted 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.240 to find more music. But again, it was really tricky 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.120 to find it online because these websites that would host files, 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:38.279 they wouldn't last very long. Maybe someone stops, stops monitoring 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.679 it or maintaining it and the links are all dead, 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.360 or because of high traffic, you know, everyone finds out 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.680 that this is where this one file is, everyone goes there, 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.840 and then it crashes the site. It was really really 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.960 tricky to find a way to reliably get those music files. 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.800 Also important to note in that was when the Digital 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.840 Millennium Copyright Act went into effect. Yes, very important. That's 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.599 a Congress enacted that and uh, that was that was 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:09.600 essentially Congress's way of saying, we understand that intellectual property 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.080 is important, that copyright is important, and that the Internet 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:16.080 age has dramatically changed how easy it is to distribute 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.160 material that is under copyright. So here are some rules 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.960 to guide how we can how we can legislate this 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.600 sort of stuff, and essentially criminalized the circumvention of any 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:30.120 kind of digital rights management right measures. It also, however, 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.880 created something called safe harbor, which was very important and 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.680 would become extremely important in Napster's case. Safe harbor is 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.799 a concept whereby it says, if your site or service 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:49.159 is not actively engaged in copyright infringement, but the users 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:53.080 are using your service in order to conduct copyright infringement, 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.920 you yourself are not at fault. You cannot be held 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.840 at fault for the behavior of your users because the 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.120 users are behaving however they want to behave. You're providing 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.680 a service. As long as your service is not actively 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:11.280 meant to circumvent copyright protection or to distribute copyright right 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.040 materials illegally, then you should be in the clear because 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.360 you cannot be held responsible for what other people do. 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.720 And that's an important concept. It's also one that ultimately 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.440 you could argue was not held up in the case 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:28.120 of naps. Yeah yeah, uh yeah. Other, while we're on 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.280 the subject, other concept that became important in this argument 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.080 was the Audio Home Recording Act of which said that 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.320 you are allowed to make unlimited copies essentially of any 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:39.480 CDs and cassettes that you own for personal use and 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.240 for your friends, as long as you're not receiving compensation. Right. 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:46.280 So again the idea being that if I own something, 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.600 I can make a copy of it. Usually it's considered 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.400 a copy for backup purposes. So for example, let's say 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.080 I own a c D and I want to be 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:57.280 able to make a second CD in case something happens 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:58.960 that first one, because I mean I bought that c 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.480 D I feel sets mine. Uh. And this this is 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:05.480 this is something ye, something that the music industry was 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.040 not so pleased about. I mean every industry. Whenever any 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.320 sort of uh invention has come up that allows people 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:17.520 to copy material some way, for instance, VCRs and DVRs, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.760 the various industries get very nervous about it because they're 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.440 afraid that well for multiple reasons, but one of the 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.160 reasons is they are afraid that that's going to impact sales. 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.320 That means that you're going to end up distributing stuff, 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:33.400 and then you cut out the person or entity that 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.240 is in charge of distributing that, and then they lose 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.200 the copyright and that you know, and that that paid 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:40.120 to make this thing happen essentially, and that they're going 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.240 to lose money. Yeah, it's a huge, huge thing. When 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.120 VCRs came out in the in the early eightiest, not 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:47.400 that I remember, But why are you looking at me, Lauren? 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:50.280 Is it only because I'm your co host? Or is 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.640 it because you actually know that I remember when VCRs 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.680 came out. I'm gonna smile on her face, tells me 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.040 the answer. All I need to know, folks, holl I 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.679 need to know anyway. Um. But yeah, so so that 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:07.960 that's kind of the state of digital copyright. So meanwhile, 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.440 Sean Fanning is saying, maybe there's a better way of 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.520 being able to find and get the music files that 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.680 you really want, and he starts to come up with 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:19.160 this idea where the idea would be to create a 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.920 centralized server and that server's job would be to search 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:27.400 for an index music files and uh, and the way 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.520 it would work is that you would subscribe to the service. UH, 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.680 you would essentially register yourself as a user with the service, 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.400 and then as a registered user, you would get a 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:39.560 folder that you would put on your hard drive, and 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.080 that folder would be a share double folder. Anything you 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:46.199 put in that folder could be seen by this service. 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.839 The server, the the centralized server could see whatever you 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:50.600 put in there. Now, in the case of Napster, we're 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.120 talking MP three files. So if you put if you 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.640 had MP three files already on your machine and you 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:57.960 put them in this folder, it would mean that those 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:02.280 would be discoverable by that centralized server. So someone else 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.600 who registers with it wasn't called Napster yet, But when 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.720 they register with the service and they search for a 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.199 particular music file and you happen to have that music 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:15.120 file in your folder, you're a link to. Essentially, your 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.920 machine would pop up and the server would facilitate a 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:23.280 connection between the person searching and your computer so that 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.160 the file transfer could complete. So, Lauren, let's let's use 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:30.079 We'll use ourselves as an example. Lauren. Let's say that 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:35.360 you've heard about this band called Common Rotation. All right. 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:39.560 Common Rotation fronted by Adam Bush, former actor in the 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.400 Buffy the Vampire Slayer series. Right, he was Warren nerd 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:46.760 of Doom So, Lauren, you've heard of common rotation, and 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.000 you're thinking, I really want to hear this one song 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.920 I've heard about that common Rotation does. It's called sit 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.720 Down before I Fall Down. But uh, you know, I 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.720 don't have access to a way of finding this this song. 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.600 Otherwise I go in to Napster. It turns out that 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.000 I Jonathan happened to have that song, and I have 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.240 it in the share folder for Napster. And when you 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.440 do the search, it put points a link towards my direction, 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:15.040 towards my computer. You hit the download button. My computer 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.160 uploads the file and your computer downloads the file, and 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.960 it's a direct transfer between the two computers. The centralized 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.160 server just acts as kind of a traffic monitor. Um. 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:28.000 And the cool thing about this is that when my 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.760 file gets to you, by default, it's going into your 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.400 share folder. You can change those settings, or you could 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:35.719 have changed those settings back in the day because the 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.160 service doesn't exist anymore, right, Or you can pull it 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.080 out of that share folder if you wanted to write, 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:42.960 but you you don't. You don't have to share everything 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.000 you get, but if you did, that would mean that 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.400 now there's another instance of that file that there's two locations, 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.800 so that if you can't if you have trouble accessing 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.319 the first location, or if out yeah, or if I'm 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.760 not even online, like if if my computer is off, 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.560 you cannot connect my computer. But if Lauren is on 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:01.560 and she still has that file on her folder, that 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:03.720 means person number three could come in and get the 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.040 file from Lauren. So every time that someone used Napster, 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.959 they were actually increasing its utility. So it was a 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.040 service that got stronger the more people used it, and 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.719 the more the larger the numbers joined, the more powerful 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.560 this service became, right right, and so so early Fanning 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.120 was was developing this this program and coding everything along 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.360 with Sean Parker. I think, yeah, And there's a story 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.760 that he did sixty straight hours of coding without sleep. 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.400 That sounds like one of those terrific Internet myths. Although 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.880 with you know, with energy drinks which were which were 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:38.760 new and the the red Bull was brand new and 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:40.920 they were downing them in cases they where they were. 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.480 But so they uploaded this beta to a website called 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.240 download dot com and and it it hit really big. 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.760 People were so excited about it. Yeah, it was very 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.920 quickly became clear that this this thing that they had 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.480 come up with was going really resonated, really because there 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.360 are a lot of people who are really interested in music, 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.320 and there's also there was also this rowing attitude of 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.560 if I like one song, but I don't like the 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.800 rest of the album, why should I the whole album 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:12.040 for one song? And the problem at that time was 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.520 that there was no real way to buy a song 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:19.800 by song unless the band had released specifically a single 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.240 CD right. Other than that, you were pretty much out 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.560 of luck. You had to buy the entire album. And 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.280 so that was why a lot of people were turning. 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.160 One of the reasons why a lot of people were 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.680 turning to piracy because it allowed them the freedom to 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.160 get what they wanted without getting all the other stuff. 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.720 And one of the big arguments people have put forward about, 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.400 you know, the piracy thing, is that if the music 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:44.520 industry had moved faster to make it more of a 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.720 accessible yeah, Yeah, If the music industry had been moving 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.640 ahead of the population at the time, or thinking ahead, 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:52.560 or even just looking at the Internet at that time, 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.760 which they really weren't, yeah, then they could have they 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.199 could have headed off the whole piracy issue to a 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.480 large extent. Like if you make it easy for people 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.960 to get your stuff, and then people will come and 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.600 pay for your stuff. If, however, it's way easier for 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.920 people to steal your stuff, don't be surprised when it 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.800 gets stolen. Yeah, I have I have ideas about HBOS content, 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.480 like like this cable cable television in general, and yeah, 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.240 that's one of those things where you know you'd be like, oh, HBO, go, 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.000 I'm gonna get that, and then you realize, wait a minute, 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.000 if I don't have the HBO subscription, I can. It's 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:28.800 only if I already have it. If I already have it, 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.360 why do I need anyway, it's a whole different show. 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.400 Hey guys, it's time for me to interrupt this classic 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.560 episode so that we can take a quick break to 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:49.800 thank our sponsor. So, so, back in back, so he 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.120 had this cool idea. His uncle John, who had gotten 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.800 him that first computer, gave him some seed money and 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.600 I think maybe facilitated an introduction to Eileen Richardson. Right, 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:00.400 And this is also around the time Sean Fanning has 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.720 decided to call it Napster, which was based off a 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:06.440 nickname he had in junior high school based on his hairstyle. Wow, 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.000 that's amazing. Yeah, that's just I was like, I have 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:10.600 to get this fact out there, and if I don't 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.240 say it now, it's not gonna happen. So Eileen Richardson 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.960 was a venture capitalist, une very funky one all you know, 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.600 all the punked out hair right right, all the reports 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:21.920 about her like, yeah, she goes to Amsterdam to listen 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.080 to bands and just got pink hair. It's really cool. Yeah, 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:28.080 but clearly she's hardcore. She she invested in the company 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:32.400 and signed on as the interim CEO. In exactly she 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:34.880 she was someone who had had a lot of experience 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.960 in investing in internet companies. And you know, keep in mind, 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.400 this is ninety nine, so we're still talking before the 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.680 big bubble crash. It's the heady days of the Internet, 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.760 when everyone's trying to figure out, like, there's this incredible resource, 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.320 how can we use it to our best advantage? And 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:51.880 she was one of those people who was right there 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.120 on the bleeding edge looking at the possibilities, and she 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:59.400 got really excited. She was very much a passionate music fan, 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.600 and so she was a music fan and a venture catalyst. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.160 Napster fell right into her wheelhouse, so she jumped in 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.520 she ended up making a very substantial investment, and then 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.000 like like you said, Lauren, she became the interim CEO. 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:20.160 By by September, there were forty registered Napster users um 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:22.200 and it was connecting a few hundred people at a 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.760 time at any given time. Right and by this time, 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.320 Sean Parker has gone from being an I r C 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.200 buddy to a real life buddy and is working with 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.640 Fanning on this project. Uh. And and it was also 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:38.400 right around the same time that the Recording Industry Association 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.120 of America also known as the r I double A, 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:46.240 which represents five of the major music labels like we're 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.960 talking like the Wind, the big big ones, the ones 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:54.400 that own everything else, essentially started to really tackle websites 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:58.840 that were hosting music files that were under copyright. So 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:03.080 the r I double A was actually actively seeking uh 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.960 these sites being taken down. Now keep in mind napsters 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.080 circumventing all this. It's no longer looking at websites that 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:12.000 are hosting files. It's looking directly at people's hard drives 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.600 where there's the shared folder. So well, our I double 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.480 A is going after all these websites. Napster's doing, you know, 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:22.000 business like Gangbusters. And when I say business, it's not 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.840 really business because they weren't making money. Yeah, they had 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.359 no revenue generating scheme at all. There was no way 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.840 for Napster to make money. It just that wasn't part 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.000 of what was going on. In fact, I'm not sure 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:39.520 there was ever really part of their their their original plan. Yeah, 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.879 Originally it was all just about sharing and that you know, 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.280 they knew that the service had value, but not in 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:49.040 a way that they could actually monetize. And although you know, 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.280 they were they were looking even in the early days, 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:55.000 they were looking at ways to to to get licenses 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.679 from various music labels where they be able to do 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.480 things like sell music files through naps Um, as well 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.439 as kind of you know, diffuse the growing problem of 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.160 the r I double a looking out for or even 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:11.600 later on, they were talking about, you know, trying to 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:15.439 find a way to count count these hits, count these 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.920 downloads and and tally them up and pay the recording 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.520 artists and the labels and all of that right for 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.360 the music. So you know, it's it's I think it's 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.720 really important to mention that because these these kids really 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:27.640 weren't out there going like we're going to steal all 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:29.959 the music right. In fact, they were just thinking like 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.199 this is a way to share stuff and it's a 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:34.960 tool for music discovery, which was a that was a 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:36.840 big deal too, was the idea, like it's it's getting 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.920 harder and harder to discover music. Radio stations might play 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:44.640 the same like yeahs technically obligated to pay this play 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.600 the same like forty tracks by their contracts. So that's so, 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.080 how do you discover new stuff If you don't have 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.400 the luxury of flying off to Amsterdam every few months 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:55.600 to listen to a band play, then how do you 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.080 discover new music If you're not you know, you may 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.240 not live in a city that has a vibe written 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.320 music community. It makes it really difficult. And so you know, 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.399 although the record industry was doing fine, its profits raised 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:10.600 eight for the previous year um by by the end 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.359 of the year UM the r I A filed a 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:16.880 lawsuit against Napster. Right right around that same time, Napster 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:21.520 hired its first non founding member named ali idar Uh 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.040 and then right a right, well that was going on. 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:28.439 R I Double A was really looking at Napster as 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:32.200 a true threat, like this was if the websites hosting 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.399 a few music files were bad. Napster was Darth Mader 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.240 coming out to kill all the Jedi, and so R 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.200 I double A really started to concentrate on him. In fact, 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:47.480 called Napster a giant online pirate bazaar. That's bizarre, b 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:52.399 a z A R not bizarre, strange, isn't strange um. 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.480 And so the thing was that as the R I 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.199 double A began to focus on Napster and all this 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:02.680 news broke about coming after Napster, that just made Napster's 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:06.320 profile go up even more, which means more people discovered 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:09.320 the service, which meant that it actually got more popular 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:13.000 than ever before. I Meanwhile, the R I double A 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:18.800 was specifically looking at charging Napster one hundred thousand dollars 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:23.200 for every copyrighted work that was infringed, which which is 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.080 a bunch, and that's a lot. And remember this is 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:30.080 a service that grows incredibly every time someone new joins in, 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.639 especially if that person has files on their computer that 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:38.000 wasn't already spread across the entire uh Napster landscape. So 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:39.920 if you know, if I join on and I happen 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:44.760 to have my Tibetan throat singing magical CD that nobody 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:46.720 else in the whole world owns, and it happens to 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.320 be on my computer. Then suddenly I am of more 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:52.959 value to Napster because there's new stuff that no one 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.760 had new else has yet. If I happen to have 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.439 Dave Matthew's greatest hits, there's a chance that was already 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.160 covered on Napster, I would think, so, um, I don't 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.680 have that album. By the way, I'm very proud of you. 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.600 I don't either. I'm not nothing. I'm not passing any judgment. 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:13.760 I'm just saying so, uh, yeah, that was fun. But yeah. 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:17.359 Here's something that Eileen Richardson specifically had to say about Napster, 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:19.600 and this comes from an interview she did with Salon 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:24.520 where this was after Metallica, after after Lars Alric himself, 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.560 it came by and dropped off this this huge lawsuit 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:29.400 because it wasn't just r I double A that came 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:33.919 after Napster. Individual labels and bands also came after Napster. 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:38.399 And uh and so she said, I think, and then 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:40.480 in brackets because this is not exactly what she said, 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:44.520 but Metallica and the recording industries actions are based on 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:47.479 a lack of knowledge and fear. When you're afraid of 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.920 something that you don't understand, you react, usually with the lawsuit. 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:54.640 But over time, and we see this absolutely every single day, 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.879 everybody's learning. We're learning about the music industry, they're learning 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:03.120 about the Internet. I'm confident that we'll get there together now. 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:06.480 As it turns out, her words were not quite prophetic. 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.760 She was giving a little too much credit, I think 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.359 to all sides on this issue. I don't mean to 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:17.080