1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to tex Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tex Stuff. 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and I love all things tech. And you 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: know what, guys, there was a time where I was 6 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: absolutely enthralled with pirates, but those were pirates on the 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: high seas. When I was in college, there was a 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: totally different type of piracy that was running rampant across 9 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: the networks, and that was the theft of intellectual property. 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: So today we're taking a classic look at how Napster worked. Now, 11 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: this episode originally published on April third, two thirteen. So 12 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: let's listen to this classic episode of tech Stuff. Napster 13 00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: and Napster's Um, it's got a bad rap. It's kind 14 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: of becomes synonymous with, at least the old Napster. The 15 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: original Napster becomes synonymous with things like piracy. Although in 16 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: the lawless days of the Internet when everyone just stole 17 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: from Lars Ulric, Yes, in fact, he ended up delivering 18 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: a lawsuit by hand too, so full of ire he was, Yes, 19 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: he took this. I think I don't know. I don't 20 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: know that I don't know that even a number of 21 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: Metallica can carry a sixty thousand page maybe by hand truck, 22 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I'm not sure by hand, but sure 23 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: series of CDs. Yeah. So anyway, let's talk about Napster 24 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: and what it was and what it is today, because 25 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: it's it's definitely changed quite a bit. So it's a 26 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: it's it's all about really it's all about music. It's 27 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: technically it's about file sharing, but those files are were 28 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: essentially music files MP three files. Napster limited itself to 29 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: MP three files. Lots whether peer to peer sharing networks used, 30 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: you know, you could you could get movies on there 31 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: are all kinds of stuff, games, everything, any kind of file. Well, 32 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: Napster was all about all about m P three's and 33 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: and you have to understand, like the the days when 34 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: we first start looking at this idea, that's way back 35 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: in the late nineties. Back then, music was not something 36 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: that you could easily get on the internet. And it 37 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: was first of all, anything that was on a web 38 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: page was MIDI based or whatever it was, or mod based. 39 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: It was just it was not anywhere close to CD quality. 40 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,399 Speaker 1: We didn't have an iTunes store that kind of thing. Yeah, 41 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: there wasn't, you know, but there were people who they 42 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: were then did I just say completely, I just said 43 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: that when iTunes was founded, that's a different show. So anyway, 44 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: there's a whole you know. iTunes for a long time 45 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: was just a jukebox type of program where you would 46 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: manage the music that you already had. It wasn't a 47 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: store where you would buy new music. It was it 48 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: was a management system. So really, at this time, the 49 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: way you would get if you were someone who wanted 50 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: to get a music file, you would essentially have to 51 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: search around for someone who was hosting music files on 52 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: a website somewhere and then download them. And these these 53 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: websites were very much unreliable, and uh, this is what 54 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: got a certain guy thinking about different ways of going 55 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: about it. The guy's name was Shan Fanning. Yeah, and 56 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: as he got his first computer and very shortly after 57 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: that created napstairs. So that was yeah, it was within 58 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: two years he had gone from getting his first computer 59 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: to creating one of the most influential and notorious web 60 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: services and programs of all time. Yeah. He got his 61 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: computer from his uncle John Fanning, who ended up being Yeah, yeah, 62 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: he he provided the seed money for for Napster in 63 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: a couple of years. Yet he was also not just 64 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: interested in programming right off the bat, but also interesting 65 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: it an Internet Relay Chat i r S, which is, 66 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: you know, one of many different protocols that allow you 67 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: to communicate over the Internet and um in an instant 68 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: instant messages. Yeah, exactly as opposed to like email or 69 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: something along those lines. And he got interested in the 70 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: field of Internet security. And uh. He described to himself 71 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: at the time as a white hat, not a hacker. 72 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: So the idea being that he was interested in finding 73 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: ways to make internet security more robust, so in helping people, 74 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: not not stealing from people, right like not like he 75 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: might look at a system and say, oh, you have 76 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: a vulnerability here, you need to patch it, as opposed to, oh, 77 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: you have a vulnerability here, give me all your things. Um. 78 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: That was kind of his his at least that's what 79 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: he said, and I have no reason to doubt him. Um. 80 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: But he met virtually a fellow named Sean Parker online 81 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: in those days, and Sean Parker also becomes important in 82 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: the Napster story. So in ninety eight, he was starting 83 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: to think about this thing that music files. And by 84 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: the way, this kid is a teenager. I mean, you know, 85 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: if I'm using the word kid, it's not just because 86 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: I use that word for everybody. It's because he was 87 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: literally like seventeen to nineteen at the time. Yeah, he was. 88 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: He was, well, that was when he was eighteen turning nineteen. Uh, 89 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: and he he was a freshman at Northeastern University in Boston, 90 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: and he knew that there were a lot of kids 91 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: his age really interested in music and they really wanted 92 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: to find more music. But again, it was really tricky 93 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: to find it online because these websites that would host files, 94 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: they wouldn't last very long. Maybe someone stops, stops monitoring 95 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,679 Speaker 1: it or maintaining it and the links are all dead, 96 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: or because of high traffic, you know, everyone finds out 97 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: that this is where this one file is, everyone goes there, 98 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: and then it crashes the site. It was really really 99 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: tricky to find a way to reliably get those music files. 100 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: Also important to note in that was when the Digital 101 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: Millennium Copyright Act went into effect. Yes, very important. That's 102 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: a Congress enacted that and uh, that was that was 103 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: essentially Congress's way of saying, we understand that intellectual property 104 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: is important, that copyright is important, and that the Internet 105 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: age has dramatically changed how easy it is to distribute 106 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: material that is under copyright. So here are some rules 107 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: to guide how we can how we can legislate this 108 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: sort of stuff, and essentially criminalized the circumvention of any 109 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: kind of digital rights management right measures. It also, however, 110 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: created something called safe harbor, which was very important and 111 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: would become extremely important in Napster's case. Safe harbor is 112 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,799 Speaker 1: a concept whereby it says, if your site or service 113 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: is not actively engaged in copyright infringement, but the users 114 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: are using your service in order to conduct copyright infringement, 115 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: you yourself are not at fault. You cannot be held 116 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: at fault for the behavior of your users because the 117 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: users are behaving however they want to behave. You're providing 118 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: a service. As long as your service is not actively 119 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: meant to circumvent copyright protection or to distribute copyright right 120 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: materials illegally, then you should be in the clear because 121 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: you cannot be held responsible for what other people do. 122 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: And that's an important concept. It's also one that ultimately 123 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: you could argue was not held up in the case 124 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: of naps. Yeah yeah, uh yeah. Other, while we're on 125 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: the subject, other concept that became important in this argument 126 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: was the Audio Home Recording Act of which said that 127 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: you are allowed to make unlimited copies essentially of any 128 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: CDs and cassettes that you own for personal use and 129 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: for your friends, as long as you're not receiving compensation. Right. 130 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: So again the idea being that if I own something, 131 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: I can make a copy of it. Usually it's considered 132 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: a copy for backup purposes. So for example, let's say 133 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: I own a c D and I want to be 134 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: able to make a second CD in case something happens 135 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: that first one, because I mean I bought that c 136 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: D I feel sets mine. Uh. And this this is 137 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: this is something ye, something that the music industry was 138 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: not so pleased about. I mean every industry. Whenever any 139 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: sort of uh invention has come up that allows people 140 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: to copy material some way, for instance, VCRs and DVRs, 141 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: the various industries get very nervous about it because they're 142 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: afraid that well for multiple reasons, but one of the 143 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: reasons is they are afraid that that's going to impact sales. 144 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: That means that you're going to end up distributing stuff, 145 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: and then you cut out the person or entity that 146 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: is in charge of distributing that, and then they lose 147 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: the copyright and that you know, and that that paid 148 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: to make this thing happen essentially, and that they're going 149 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: to lose money. Yeah, it's a huge, huge thing. When 150 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: VCRs came out in the in the early eightiest, not 151 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: that I remember, But why are you looking at me, Lauren? 152 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: Is it only because I'm your co host? Or is 153 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: it because you actually know that I remember when VCRs 154 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: came out. I'm gonna smile on her face, tells me 155 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: the answer. All I need to know, folks, holl I 156 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: need to know anyway. Um. But yeah, so so that 157 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: that's kind of the state of digital copyright. So meanwhile, 158 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: Sean Fanning is saying, maybe there's a better way of 159 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: being able to find and get the music files that 160 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: you really want, and he starts to come up with 161 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: this idea where the idea would be to create a 162 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: centralized server and that server's job would be to search 163 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: for an index music files and uh, and the way 164 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: it would work is that you would subscribe to the service. UH, 165 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: you would essentially register yourself as a user with the service, 166 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: and then as a registered user, you would get a 167 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: folder that you would put on your hard drive, and 168 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: that folder would be a share double folder. Anything you 169 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 1: put in that folder could be seen by this service. 170 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 1: The server, the the centralized server could see whatever you 171 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: put in there. Now, in the case of Napster, we're 172 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: talking MP three files. So if you put if you 173 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: had MP three files already on your machine and you 174 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: put them in this folder, it would mean that those 175 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: would be discoverable by that centralized server. So someone else 176 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: who registers with it wasn't called Napster yet, But when 177 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: they register with the service and they search for a 178 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: particular music file and you happen to have that music 179 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: file in your folder, you're a link to. Essentially, your 180 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: machine would pop up and the server would facilitate a 181 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: connection between the person searching and your computer so that 182 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: the file transfer could complete. So, Lauren, let's let's use 183 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 1: We'll use ourselves as an example. Lauren. Let's say that 184 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: you've heard about this band called Common Rotation. All right. 185 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: Common Rotation fronted by Adam Bush, former actor in the 186 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: Buffy the Vampire Slayer series. Right, he was Warren nerd 187 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: of Doom So, Lauren, you've heard of common rotation, and 188 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: you're thinking, I really want to hear this one song 189 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: I've heard about that common Rotation does. It's called sit 190 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: Down before I Fall Down. But uh, you know, I 191 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: don't have access to a way of finding this this song. 192 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: Otherwise I go in to Napster. It turns out that 193 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: I Jonathan happened to have that song, and I have 194 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: it in the share folder for Napster. And when you 195 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: do the search, it put points a link towards my direction, 196 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: towards my computer. You hit the download button. My computer 197 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: uploads the file and your computer downloads the file, and 198 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: it's a direct transfer between the two computers. The centralized 199 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: server just acts as kind of a traffic monitor. Um. 200 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: And the cool thing about this is that when my 201 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: file gets to you, by default, it's going into your 202 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: share folder. You can change those settings, or you could 203 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 1: have changed those settings back in the day because the 204 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: service doesn't exist anymore, right, Or you can pull it 205 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: out of that share folder if you wanted to write, 206 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: but you you don't. You don't have to share everything 207 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: you get, but if you did, that would mean that 208 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: now there's another instance of that file that there's two locations, 209 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: so that if you can't if you have trouble accessing 210 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 1: the first location, or if out yeah, or if I'm 211 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: not even online, like if if my computer is off, 212 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: you cannot connect my computer. But if Lauren is on 213 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: and she still has that file on her folder, that 214 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: means person number three could come in and get the 215 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: file from Lauren. So every time that someone used Napster, 216 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: they were actually increasing its utility. So it was a 217 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: service that got stronger the more people used it, and 218 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 1: the more the larger the numbers joined, the more powerful 219 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: this service became, right right, and so so early Fanning 220 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: was was developing this this program and coding everything along 221 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: with Sean Parker. I think, yeah, And there's a story 222 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: that he did sixty straight hours of coding without sleep. 223 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: That sounds like one of those terrific Internet myths. Although 224 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: with you know, with energy drinks which were which were 225 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: new and the the red Bull was brand new and 226 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: they were downing them in cases they where they were. 227 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: But so they uploaded this beta to a website called 228 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: download dot com and and it it hit really big. 229 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: People were so excited about it. Yeah, it was very 230 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: quickly became clear that this this thing that they had 231 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: come up with was going really resonated, really because there 232 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: are a lot of people who are really interested in music, 233 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: and there's also there was also this rowing attitude of 234 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: if I like one song, but I don't like the 235 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: rest of the album, why should I the whole album 236 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: for one song? And the problem at that time was 237 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: that there was no real way to buy a song 238 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: by song unless the band had released specifically a single 239 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: CD right. Other than that, you were pretty much out 240 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: of luck. You had to buy the entire album. And 241 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: so that was why a lot of people were turning. 242 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: One of the reasons why a lot of people were 243 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: turning to piracy because it allowed them the freedom to 244 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: get what they wanted without getting all the other stuff. 245 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: And one of the big arguments people have put forward about, 246 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: you know, the piracy thing, is that if the music 247 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: industry had moved faster to make it more of a 248 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: accessible yeah, Yeah, If the music industry had been moving 249 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: ahead of the population at the time, or thinking ahead, 250 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: or even just looking at the Internet at that time, 251 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: which they really weren't, yeah, then they could have they 252 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: could have headed off the whole piracy issue to a 253 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: large extent. Like if you make it easy for people 254 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: to get your stuff, and then people will come and 255 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: pay for your stuff. If, however, it's way easier for 256 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: people to steal your stuff, don't be surprised when it 257 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: gets stolen. Yeah, I have I have ideas about HBOS content, 258 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: like like this cable cable television in general, and yeah, 259 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: that's one of those things where you know you'd be like, oh, HBO, go, 260 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get that, and then you realize, wait a minute, 261 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: if I don't have the HBO subscription, I can. It's 262 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: only if I already have it. If I already have it, 263 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: why do I need anyway, it's a whole different show. 264 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's time for me to interrupt this classic 265 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: episode so that we can take a quick break to 266 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: thank our sponsor. So, so, back in back, so he 267 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: had this cool idea. His uncle John, who had gotten 268 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: him that first computer, gave him some seed money and 269 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: I think maybe facilitated an introduction to Eileen Richardson. Right, 270 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: And this is also around the time Sean Fanning has 271 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: decided to call it Napster, which was based off a 272 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: nickname he had in junior high school based on his hairstyle. Wow, 273 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: that's amazing. Yeah, that's just I was like, I have 274 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: to get this fact out there, and if I don't 275 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: say it now, it's not gonna happen. So Eileen Richardson 276 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: was a venture capitalist, une very funky one all you know, 277 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: all the punked out hair right right, all the reports 278 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: about her like, yeah, she goes to Amsterdam to listen 279 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: to bands and just got pink hair. It's really cool. Yeah, 280 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: but clearly she's hardcore. She she invested in the company 281 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: and signed on as the interim CEO. In exactly she 282 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: she was someone who had had a lot of experience 283 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: in investing in internet companies. And you know, keep in mind, 284 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: this is ninety nine, so we're still talking before the 285 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: big bubble crash. It's the heady days of the Internet, 286 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: when everyone's trying to figure out, like, there's this incredible resource, 287 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: how can we use it to our best advantage? And 288 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: she was one of those people who was right there 289 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: on the bleeding edge looking at the possibilities, and she 290 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: got really excited. She was very much a passionate music fan, 291 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: and so she was a music fan and a venture catalyst. 292 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: Napster fell right into her wheelhouse, so she jumped in 293 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: she ended up making a very substantial investment, and then 294 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: like like you said, Lauren, she became the interim CEO. 295 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: By by September, there were forty registered Napster users um 296 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: and it was connecting a few hundred people at a 297 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: time at any given time. Right and by this time, 298 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: Sean Parker has gone from being an I r C 299 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: buddy to a real life buddy and is working with 300 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: Fanning on this project. Uh. And and it was also 301 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: right around the same time that the Recording Industry Association 302 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: of America also known as the r I double A, 303 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: which represents five of the major music labels like we're 304 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: talking like the Wind, the big big ones, the ones 305 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: that own everything else, essentially started to really tackle websites 306 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: that were hosting music files that were under copyright. So 307 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: the r I double A was actually actively seeking uh 308 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: these sites being taken down. Now keep in mind napsters 309 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: circumventing all this. It's no longer looking at websites that 310 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: are hosting files. It's looking directly at people's hard drives 311 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: where there's the shared folder. So well, our I double 312 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: A is going after all these websites. Napster's doing, you know, 313 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: business like Gangbusters. And when I say business, it's not 314 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: really business because they weren't making money. Yeah, they had 315 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: no revenue generating scheme at all. There was no way 316 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: for Napster to make money. It just that wasn't part 317 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: of what was going on. In fact, I'm not sure 318 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: there was ever really part of their their their original plan. Yeah, 319 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: Originally it was all just about sharing and that you know, 320 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: they knew that the service had value, but not in 321 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: a way that they could actually monetize. And although you know, 322 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: they were they were looking even in the early days, 323 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: they were looking at ways to to to get licenses 324 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: from various music labels where they be able to do 325 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: things like sell music files through naps Um, as well 326 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: as kind of you know, diffuse the growing problem of 327 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: the r I double a looking out for or even 328 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: later on, they were talking about, you know, trying to 329 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: find a way to count count these hits, count these 330 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: downloads and and tally them up and pay the recording 331 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: artists and the labels and all of that right for 332 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 1: the music. So you know, it's it's I think it's 333 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: really important to mention that because these these kids really 334 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: weren't out there going like we're going to steal all 335 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 1: the music right. In fact, they were just thinking like 336 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,199 Speaker 1: this is a way to share stuff and it's a 337 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: tool for music discovery, which was a that was a 338 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: big deal too, was the idea, like it's it's getting 339 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: harder and harder to discover music. Radio stations might play 340 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: the same like yeahs technically obligated to pay this play 341 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: the same like forty tracks by their contracts. So that's so, 342 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: how do you discover new stuff If you don't have 343 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: the luxury of flying off to Amsterdam every few months 344 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: to listen to a band play, then how do you 345 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: discover new music If you're not you know, you may 346 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: not live in a city that has a vibe written 347 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: music community. It makes it really difficult. And so you know, 348 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: although the record industry was doing fine, its profits raised 349 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: eight for the previous year um by by the end 350 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: of the year UM the r I A filed a 351 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: lawsuit against Napster. Right right around that same time, Napster 352 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: hired its first non founding member named ali idar Uh 353 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: and then right a right, well that was going on. 354 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 1: R I Double A was really looking at Napster as 355 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: a true threat, like this was if the websites hosting 356 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: a few music files were bad. Napster was Darth Mader 357 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: coming out to kill all the Jedi, and so R 358 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: I double A really started to concentrate on him. In fact, 359 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: called Napster a giant online pirate bazaar. That's bizarre, b 360 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: a z A R not bizarre, strange, isn't strange um. 361 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: And so the thing was that as the R I 362 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 1: double A began to focus on Napster and all this 363 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: news broke about coming after Napster, that just made Napster's 364 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: profile go up even more, which means more people discovered 365 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: the service, which meant that it actually got more popular 366 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: than ever before. I Meanwhile, the R I double A 367 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: was specifically looking at charging Napster one hundred thousand dollars 368 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: for every copyrighted work that was infringed, which which is 369 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: a bunch, and that's a lot. And remember this is 370 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: a service that grows incredibly every time someone new joins in, 371 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: especially if that person has files on their computer that 372 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: wasn't already spread across the entire uh Napster landscape. So 373 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: if you know, if I join on and I happen 374 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: to have my Tibetan throat singing magical CD that nobody 375 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: else in the whole world owns, and it happens to 376 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: be on my computer. Then suddenly I am of more 377 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,959 Speaker 1: value to Napster because there's new stuff that no one 378 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: had new else has yet. If I happen to have 379 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: Dave Matthew's greatest hits, there's a chance that was already 380 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 1: covered on Napster, I would think, so, um, I don't 381 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: have that album. By the way, I'm very proud of you. 382 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: I don't either. I'm not nothing. I'm not passing any judgment. 383 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: I'm just saying so, uh, yeah, that was fun. But yeah. 384 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: Here's something that Eileen Richardson specifically had to say about Napster, 385 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: and this comes from an interview she did with Salon 386 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: where this was after Metallica, after after Lars Alric himself, 387 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: it came by and dropped off this this huge lawsuit 388 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: because it wasn't just r I double A that came 389 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: after Napster. Individual labels and bands also came after Napster. 390 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: And uh and so she said, I think, and then 391 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: in brackets because this is not exactly what she said, 392 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: but Metallica and the recording industries actions are based on 393 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,479 Speaker 1: a lack of knowledge and fear. When you're afraid of 394 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: something that you don't understand, you react, usually with the lawsuit. 395 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: But over time, and we see this absolutely every single day, 396 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: everybody's learning. We're learning about the music industry, they're learning 397 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: about the Internet. I'm confident that we'll get there together now. 398 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: As it turns out, her words were not quite prophetic. 399 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: She was giving a little too much credit, I think 400 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: to all sides on this issue. I don't mean to 401 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: paint our I double A as being this evil uh entity. 402 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: They were looking out for their interests in a very 403 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: very passionate way. I meanwhile, Mabster was looking out for 404 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: their interest in a very passionate way. I think that 405 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: everyone involved was being a little bit shortsighted about exactly 406 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,479 Speaker 1: what needed to happen. Yeah. No, but there is no 407 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: doubt that the music industry had not really figured out 408 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: the internet yet, in fact, because no one had a 409 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: music store that was really of any true utility at 410 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: this point. And so that's why when you have a 411 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: service that allows people to get what they want, they 412 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: go to it. Whether that's piracy service or if it's 413 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: one that's legitimate, doesn't matter. If you give the people 414 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: what they want, that's where they're gonna go. And the 415 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: music industry had not yet figured out how to give 416 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: the people what they wanted, and so that was the problem. 417 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: By the way, I still remember the days when I 418 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: would actually want to buy an album because I like 419 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: the album experience. But even at this point in the nineties, 420 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: I was one of these people. I was one of 421 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: the people saying I don't want to buy an entire album. 422 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: I just like this one song, and um, you know, 423 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 1: and I can't think of the last time besides like 424 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: a soundtrack to a musical because jazz hands, I can't 425 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: think of the last time I sat down and listened 426 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: to an album from start to finish. That's that's actually 427 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,479 Speaker 1: how I kind of usually do it myself. If if 428 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: I have like an artist well enough, I'll buy the 429 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 1: album and sit down and listen to it several times through. Actually, 430 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: but it's been a long time I've done that with 431 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: They might be giants, I've done that with them, But 432 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: it's Jonathan Colton but and Marian call but beyond like 433 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: a few artists, I just don't like fun No. I 434 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: I just went out and bought the one, the one 435 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: that everyone listens to. But anyway, getting back to to Napster, 436 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 1: and around two thousand and they secured around of funding 437 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: from Hummer Winbald which installed a man named Hank Berry 438 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: as the CEO of Napster again another interim CEO, So 439 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: hank Berry takes over for Eileen Richardson in two thousand 440 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: and His main concern was to try and resolve the 441 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 1: legal issues that had popped up between Napster and the 442 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: r I double A and other people on his management 443 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: team took over the day to day executive decisions of 444 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: keeping the company going. So really, uh, hank Berry was 445 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: just looking at the legal issues, not not how to 446 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: operate the company. Yeah, yeah, sure, but yeah, you know 447 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: it's when you've got people like Dr Dre talking directly 448 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: to you about lawsuits, then you start yeah. Well, and 449 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: there were some there were some artists who were coming 450 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: out in defense limp Biscuit Offspring. I think Chuck d was, Yes, 451 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: he was. He was also a big supporter of Napster. Um. Yeah, yeah, 452 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: that was so, so there were artists on either side 453 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: of the issue. Obviously. Two thousand was also when this 454 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: was another thing that got Napster a ton of publicity 455 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: when colleges started to ban napster. Yeah, something I think 456 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: that I read a figure that's something like colleges. It 457 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: was around the US. It was around in March of 458 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: two thousand. By March of two thousand, it was about 459 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: a hundred thirty universities, but more would join. Uh. And 460 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: it was also their biggest period of activity. They had 461 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: upwards of seventy million registered users, yeah, and around two 462 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: and a half million people connected at any one time. 463 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: So it was to keep in mind these servers could 464 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: only handle a certain number of connections. They had more 465 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: than one server, but in the early days, if you 466 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: wanted to use the service, you would connect to the server, 467 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: and then about up to around four thousand, nine hundred 468 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: and ninety nine other people could connect to that same 469 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: server at the same time. Uh. Some of the service 470 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 1: could handle larger loads than others, but you know, the 471 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: more you would put in there, the slower the whole 472 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: service would go. So you would you would be connected 473 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: to a server along with thousands of other people, which 474 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: meant that you were limited to whatever those other people 475 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: had in their share folders. Right, So not every music 476 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: file in the world is available at any given time. 477 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: It all depends upon who is connected to the service 478 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: at that moment. Uh. And originally each server was kind 479 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: of its own independent little world and independent on you know, 480 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 1: just when you signed in with what server you would 481 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: hit N and who else would be on there, you know. 482 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: But at this time they were running about a hundred 483 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: and forty servers, I think it's the estimate. And ultimately 484 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: whether their goal was was to link all the servers 485 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: together so that way, if I linked to server A 486 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: and Lauren linked to server B, they would we would 487 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: still be able to exchange files. Now, in the early days, 488 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: that was impossible. We would both need to be on 489 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: server A or both be on server B for that 490 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: to work. Uh So anyway, Uh, the universities and colleges 491 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: also began to notice that that uploads were the upload 492 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: spees were really dying on campus because people people were 493 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: using the service, and that I think I think that 494 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: by it might have been in two thousand one of January, 495 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: Indiana University noticed that up to of its network resources 496 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: were being used by Napster. Yeah. Yeah, And Oxford University 497 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: really suffered because here's the thing about Oxford University. They 498 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: had to pay for any data transferrals that were transatlantic, 499 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: So any files that were passing over the cables that 500 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: go underneath the ocean that connected the Europe to North 501 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: America charged per bite. Yeah, so they had to pay 502 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: per bite a certain amount per bite for that. So 503 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: people on the Oxford campus who were using Napster and 504 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 1: we're downloading files directly from computers in the USA, we're 505 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: really driving that up. Yeah. Yeah. They joked that it 506 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: would have been less expensive to have just bought the 507 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: students the CDs, right if if if the college had 508 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: gone out to the music store and just filled up 509 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: four hundred carts with CDs and brought it back to 510 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: the campus, it would have been less expensive. Um. Yeah. 511 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: And and so this was also around the time when uh, 512 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: this was mainly Eileen Richardson's influence here, where they were 513 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: looking at incorporating more social tools in Napster, things like 514 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: instant messenger chat rooms. Yeah, that that could old IRC 515 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: stuff that that they were also found out. Yeah. And 516 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: again this was an idea to kind of help users 517 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: discover new music and learn more about the stuff that 518 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: they're interested in. Uh. And so it was really becoming 519 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: a social platform at the same time as it was 520 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: under fire from the industry. Um, and so we're getting 521 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,199 Speaker 1: now to the point where we need to take a 522 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 1: quick break. But before I say that, I remember, even 523 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: at this point where Napster's going crazy with huge amounts 524 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: of traffic. Remember it, at this stage, it's the most 525 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: popular web service that has ever existed. It would be 526 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: dwarfed by things like Facebook in the future, but this, 527 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: this is before Facebook at the time, connecting you know, 528 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: a few million people simultaneously. That was a big deal. Yeah, 529 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: so so huge deal. Still not any way to generate revenue. 530 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: But let's take a quick break, all right, and now 531 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: let's get back to naps here. Alright, So, so two 532 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: thousand's coming gone. We're into two thousand and one, and 533 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: Napster receives an order to shut down. Uh, this is 534 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: an order court order to shut down its services because 535 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: the r I double A has said that napster is 536 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: complicit in copyright infringement suits. It's not just that it 537 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: is a service, it is actively helping people copyright. That's 538 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: essentially what it would have to be for it to 539 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: get around this whole d m C a safe harbor issue, 540 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: and that's a debatable thing. But the judge kind of 541 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: sided with the music industry. Uh. There was a stay 542 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: in the order to two days later. In fact, I 543 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: think a stay was enacted, right, so they didn't have 544 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: to shut down a media lee. However, not that much 545 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: longer they would get another order to shut down and 546 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: they actually would have to do it. Uh. And they 547 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: received right around the same time during that stay, they 548 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: received like sixty million dollars investment money from Burman Bertlesman, 549 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: of course, being a giant multimedia company that in fact 550 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: owned a bunch of the companies that were participating in 551 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: a lawsuit against Napster. Yeah, so you have to understand, Okay, 552 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: So Burlsman is this mega multimedia company based out of Germany, 553 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: all right, and it owns lots and lots of stuff, 554 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: lots of different divisions, and these different divisions don't necessarily 555 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: talk to each other. So one division sits there and 556 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: sees Napster and sees lots of potential in it as 557 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: turning it into a revenue generating service. Another division that 558 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with that first division is seeing 559 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,719 Speaker 1: Napster as the pirate that is killing its business and 560 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: it needs to go after it. Well, I think that really. 561 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it was extremely savvy of Burtlsman 562 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: to be investing in them at the time, because they 563 00:30:58,560 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: were looking at it and they were going, this is 564 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: potentially the future. This is how they if you know, 565 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: what they're doing right now is crappy for us. But 566 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: if people people are excited about music, and that's great, 567 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: I think, and if we can monetize that. I think 568 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: Bertlesman would argue that retroactively it was not a savvy 569 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: move at all. Okay, well sure, but but you know, 570 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: they saw that where the future was going. Unfortunately was 571 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: the wrong time to implement it, because it just turned 572 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: out that the the hornets Nest that had been stirred 573 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: up was so great as to totally derail any efforts 574 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: in turning Napster into a quote unquote legitimate revenue generator service. Right, yeah, Well, 575 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: they installed Conrad Hilbert's ass the new CEO, hank Berry 576 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: steps aside, and meanwhile, like just just as Conrad Hilber's 577 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: was taking over, hank Berry had just gone before Congress 578 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: and asked Congress to to form some sort of industry 579 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: wide license agreement for internet broadcast similar to what radio has, 580 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: and his His argument was that really we're just another 581 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: distribution platform just like radio, so really we should we 582 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: should have the same opportunity to license music the way 583 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: radio does. The problem with the problem with establishing a 584 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: license for every single file is that it's impossible to 585 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: do because take take a take a typical album, that 586 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: album might have multiple producers on it, and each producer 587 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,479 Speaker 1: has some level of ownership of the tracks that are 588 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: on that album. Then you have the artists and they 589 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 1: also have some ownership on the tracks on that album, 590 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: the composition and of actual performance. Right, So securing a 591 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: license from every single cop you know, like everyone who 592 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: owns part of that content, it's impossible, you know. He 593 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: was saying that for one album, you might have to 594 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: secure hundreds of licenses just to be able to have 595 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: that one album, and then you multiplay that across the 596 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of albums that have always existed in 597 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: the new ones that are coming out every year, and 598 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: you have an impossible situation. There's no way to legally 599 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: follow that rule. So what needs to happen is a 600 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: new legal way. He wasn't arguing, he wasn't arguing for 601 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: for piracy. He was just arguing for a new legal 602 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: means to license music, and that was getting really bogged 603 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: down in Congress. So then he ends up stepping aside 604 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: and uh and Conrad Hilbert takes over. Um. Conrad didn't 605 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: have a whole long time to operate Napster before it 606 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: got shut down. That was on June eleven, two thous one. 607 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: That's when Napster shut off its service. It still existed 608 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: as a corporate entity, and it started to really concentrate 609 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: on finding a way to create a legal music distribution service. 610 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: And I say legal with air quotes around it, because 611 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: Napster again would be arguing that what they did, they 612 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: were harbor, they were only connecting people to do illegal things, right, 613 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: and that that wasn't even the purpose of Napster. The 614 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: purpose of Napster was sharing music, and that that, you know, 615 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: it's the fact that people were using it to share 616 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: music illegally. That wasn't Napster's fault. And you can argue 617 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,959 Speaker 1: whether or not that's naive or sincere. That's not really 618 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: our place to do that. I mean, you could certainly, 619 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: you certainly could have used Napster in a perfectly legal 620 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: means if an artist had given full full permission, like 621 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: I want this, you can distribute this any way you like. 622 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: I have no I release all claim to it. Otherwise 623 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: I just want my music out there. Then it would 624 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 1: have been perfectly legal to to distribute that across napster. 625 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: It was the problem. The problem was there were people 626 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: doing that with stuff where that what they didn't have 627 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: that they have that permission. And now you could ask, 628 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: how is this different from taking my copy of a 629 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: CD that I've bought, making a copy and giving it 630 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: to law. Yeah, all I've done is just changed the 631 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: way that Lauren has has received that music. And is 632 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: it my fault that Lauren and maybe two point four 633 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: million people I don't know got that music check I 634 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: don't know. Um, so it got really complex. Yeah. Yeah. 635 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: So then the next note that I have is in 636 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: two thousand two when UM the you know, the company 637 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: was was still shuttered but but working um and they 638 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: entered into a beta test of a secure file trading 639 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: network that January. Yeah, and uh, and that was it 640 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: was something they were really seriously working on at the 641 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: same time as trying to figure out a way to 642 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: stave off the growing financial problems they were facing as 643 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: a result of these lawsuits. Yeah, yeah, they were so 644 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: serious that as a February Burtlesman just kind of offered 645 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: to buy the company I think for for like like 646 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: twenty million, like not not a whole lot, it was. 647 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: It was, yeah, in addition comparative. It was addition, in 648 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: addition to the money they had already invested into the company, 649 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: which was I think I could be, I could be. 650 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: You know, there are a lot of interesting reports on this, 651 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: so it's kind of hard to follow. It's a little 652 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: bit timmy wymy, but yeah, exactly whibbly wobbly. In May 653 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: two thousand two, Sean Fanning and Conrad Hilbert's both resigned. Right. 654 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: This was John Fanning, you know, kind of tried to 655 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: organize a coup. From the way that I read it, 656 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 1: he was he was trying to oust uh Hummer and 657 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 1: Hank Berry and all the venture capitalists and and there 658 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: was all of this in fighting within the company going on. 659 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: Fanning eventually filed a lawsuit to have Barry and Hummer 660 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: dismissed from the board of directors. Suit was thrown out 661 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: of court. But but but yeah, as of many things 662 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,439 Speaker 1: had gotten so bad that um that Sean Fanning he quits. Yeah. Yeah. 663 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,959 Speaker 1: And another interesting note is that Sean Fanning apparently never 664 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: drew more than just a regular like paycheck. Yeah yeah. 665 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: His paycheck was just it was like a middle of 666 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: the company type of paycheck. After after founding it, he 667 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: worked as he worked as a grant as a coder. Yeah. 668 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: In fact, he apparently started getting into trouble because he 669 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: was getting so many requests for interviews back when naps 670 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: Or was really in the news for all this this 671 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 1: legal battle stuff. He was getting so many requests for interviews, 672 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:10,320 Speaker 1: he wasn't able to meet his his coding uh responsibilities, 673 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,919 Speaker 1: and he started getting in trouble from his boss. Keeping 674 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: in mind, he's the guy who built the tool. Yeah, 675 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: he's the guy who kind of technically hired his boss. 676 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: So and now his boss is like, you kind of 677 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: need to um, you kinda need to get back to work, buddy. Yeah, 678 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: but but so so um Napster denied this sale to 679 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: Bertlesman and it kind of just sort of dies from there, 680 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: collapsed like a flawn in a cupboard and nice and 681 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: that it was trapped like a moth in a bath. 682 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 1: At that point, there were also the major labels were 683 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: trying to launch their own services. One of them was 684 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: called press Play, which was launched in I think around 685 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: two thousand two and it ended in two thousand three. 686 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,720 Speaker 1: Another one was called music Net, which was also a failure. 687 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: And the problem was that buying music from these services 688 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: was often more ble than what people thought it was worth. 689 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: Again it was not. It became easier to pirate music 690 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,760 Speaker 1: than it was to buy it, and if it's easier, 691 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: people will do it. And and other other companies like 692 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: a kaza and things like that were popping up. Yeah, 693 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: so so you had new Tela as well, you had 694 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: other file sharing uh services out there. They were picking 695 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: up where Napster had dropped off, and so there were 696 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: there were a lot of casualties in this whole rise 697 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: and fall of Napster. And you'll keep in mind this 698 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: is just two thousand two, and um, yeah, yeah, it happened. 699 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: I had no idea when we started doing this had 700 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 1: happened that fast. Because of such a huge name, right, 701 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,800 Speaker 1: you just expect that it had at least a decade 702 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: worth of life. And of course we'll get into what 703 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: Napster is now in just a minute. But besides the 704 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: fact that you had Fanning who never drew anything more 705 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: than just a regular salary. Eileen Richardson had a huge 706 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: career setback. Business Week ran an article that essentially said 707 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: that all of the legal problems were mainly due to 708 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: the way Richardson was running the company, which was not 709 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: entirely accurate. I'm not very fair to her how she 710 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,800 Speaker 1: was running the company and how she was marketing everything, 711 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: because she was she was very like like free love 712 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: about the music. And but yeah, apparently that that that 713 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: hit her pretty hard. And also the Bertelsman CEO, Thomas 714 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:24,880 Speaker 1: Milhoff was was replaced. He was replaced by another CEO 715 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,239 Speaker 1: when that Napster deal was went so sour, and plus 716 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,719 Speaker 1: the economy itself, but you had to really crumble because 717 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: keep in mind, this is post dot com crash, and 718 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: the ramifications of that are still unfolding in two thousand two. 719 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:44,439 Speaker 1: So you've got the the company just completely languishing. There's 720 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: there's very little of it left and ends up going 721 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 1: into Chapter eleven bankruptcy. And then there's a a bankruptcy 722 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: auction held in two thousand two. This is still happening 723 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,399 Speaker 1: like right after another, and a company called Rock CEO 724 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: purchases the assets of Napster in an auction in two 725 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: thousand two. They also that same company purchased that failed 726 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: music service called press Play in two thousand three, and 727 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,839 Speaker 1: so they decided to use the the kind of the 728 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,840 Speaker 1: cashet of Napster's name and the foundation of the press 729 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: Play service and combined them together to form Voltron. Except 730 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,280 Speaker 1: by Voltron, I mean a legal music service that everyone 731 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: knows the name of because everyone's heard the name Napster. Yes, 732 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: So they take some time to develop this, and the 733 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,879 Speaker 1: reason why it took so long is that they had 734 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: to establish those licenses that Napster never could get hold of. Now, Uh, 735 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: they had been Napster been trying to do that for 736 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: especially the last two years of its existence and and failed. 737 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: And so yeah, and meanwhile, companies like rhapsody Um, which 738 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: was another it wasn't a file sharing thing that it 739 00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: was a music music subscription plan. Yeah, we're starting text 740 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 1: you started to see some early examples of other music 741 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 1: subscription services. Uh, Rock CEO would take years to develop this. 742 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,839 Speaker 1: It would actually not be until two thousand and six. 743 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: So this is four years after they bought the assets 744 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: of Napster that they launched the free Napster service. They 745 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: place Chris go Rog as the chairman and CEO of Napster, 746 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: and in that time, what Napster did was it used 747 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: ads to support a free web based streaming experience. Now 748 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 1: you could stream any song that was in Napster's catalog 749 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 1: a maximum of three times. After that, you had to 750 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: either purchase the song or never listen to it again, 751 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: at least not on Napster. Yeah, you had to. You 752 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: had to purchase the song. Now. Nice thing about is 753 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 1: that you could purchase a DRM free version of the 754 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,439 Speaker 1: MP three of whatever song it was, so you didn't 755 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: have to worry about Okay, well you can buy this song, 756 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 1: but you can only play it on three machines and 757 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 1: after that that's it, because that was one of the 758 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: big problems of early DRM music is that you could 759 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: it would limit how many machines you could put it on. 760 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,319 Speaker 1: And you know, here's the thing about technology, folks. Our 761 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,240 Speaker 1: stuff gets out of date and we want to replace 762 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: it occasionally. So if you tell me that I can 763 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,279 Speaker 1: only load this on three machines, I'm like, well that's 764 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna last like five years. Yeah, then I 765 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 1: have to buy the song again. What's what's the deal. 766 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: And this is where you bring into questions like, all right, 767 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 1: do you you don't Obviously you don't own the song 768 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: because you didn't make it, but you you own the 769 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: opportunity to experience that song within the realm of a 770 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 1: specific kind of license licensed for home use. And then 771 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: your their argument might might be, well, I want to 772 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: use it at home, but none of the things I 773 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,399 Speaker 1: have will play it. Now. It's complicated. Uh and in fact, 774 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: we could probably do a full episode about that we've 775 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: talked about in previous ones. Well. Uh, So two thousand 776 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,760 Speaker 1: sicks they launch, Chris Gore is the chairman and CEO. 777 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: Uh and uh. They try to get it moving, but 778 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't really catch on. For one thing, at this point, 779 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 1: they're starting to to really come into a competition with iTunes. 780 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,879 Speaker 1: By now iTunes is really a thing. And so from 781 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:13,920 Speaker 1: two thousand and six to two thousand and ten that 782 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,200 Speaker 1: was Napster's existence. But in two thousand and ten, Gorg 783 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,840 Speaker 1: ends up stepping down and the president of Napster also 784 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: steps down, and best Buy purchases Napster. So the Napster CEO, 785 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: Christopher Allen, becomes the general manager of Napster. Because now 786 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: it's owned by best Buy. It's no longer a thing 787 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: that ROXYO has, and his reporting relationship is to a 788 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,799 Speaker 1: best Buy senior executive. So there's a new new sheriff 789 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 1: in town in a sense. And from two thousand and 790 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 1: ten to two thousand eleven it's run as a best 791 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,920 Speaker 1: Buy company. And in two thousand eleven, Rhapsody, which Lauren 792 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: mentioned just a minute ago, acquires Napster and folds it 793 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: into its own streaming music service. So now Rahapsty and 794 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 1: Napster are buddy buddy. Yeah. I think that I think 795 00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,400 Speaker 1: that Rapsody had been in close affiliation with best Buy 796 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 1: at the time. Anyway, I think that that was the 797 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 1: official service for the best Buy line of MP three 798 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: players back when that was a thing. Yeah, and uh 799 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 1: and and Napster still exists now. Granted, keep in mind 800 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 1: the Napster we're talking about now. Really it has very 801 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 1: little connection to the Napster that was in the first 802 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: half of this podcast. Yeah, it's a it's a purely 803 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: subscription service. Um. You can use it to download or 804 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: stream music UM two different devicesferent devices mobile. You know, 805 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: it's got a sleek looking interface. Yeah, and you can 806 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 1: listen to it like you if you have a compatible 807 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 1: home entertainment system, you can listen to it on that. 808 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,919 Speaker 1: You can listen to it on you know, like I said, 809 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: like a MP three players on the line of something 810 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,279 Speaker 1: like like Pandora or or Spotify. Although you have you 811 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: have far more control than you would on Pandora right right. 812 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: And when you subscribe to it, you um cut out 813 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: all the ads and all that fans right. In fact, 814 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:01,800 Speaker 1: you have to subscribe to it. You can have a 815 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 1: free fourteen day trials I recalled in the United States. 816 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,239 Speaker 1: I can't speak for everywhere in the world. In the 817 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 1: United States, the current subscription rate as of the recording 818 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,879 Speaker 1: of this podcast is nine dollars and cents per month. 819 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 1: And um and yeah, they have apps for Android iOS, BlackBerry, 820 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 1: Windows phone seven. Uh. They have extra features like tailored 821 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 1: playlists have been formed by various either you know, sometimes 822 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,680 Speaker 1: their bands or an artist or sometimes it's like a 823 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 1: like a music critic for a magazine will make a 824 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,239 Speaker 1: playlist and then they make it available on this so 825 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,879 Speaker 1: that way you can listen to the music that people 826 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: cooler than you are listening to. That, by the way, 827 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 1: for me, that's everybody. I'm not I'm not saying like 828 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,359 Speaker 1: you are cooler than I am. I know you knew 829 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: that already. I'm just let you know that I also 830 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,799 Speaker 1: know that. So that's especially music wise, I will let 831 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: myself into that category as well. Yeah, I mean that 832 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,479 Speaker 1: I was not aware of Neutral Milk Hotel until years 833 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: after they were a thing. That's that's the kind of 834 00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 1: guy I am. But I was. I was on board 835 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 1: with mom It and Sons before any of you folks 836 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 1: knew who they were. Besides, unless Mumford and Sons is 837 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, in which case they probably knew 838 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,680 Speaker 1: about it before I did, probably, But anyway, but yeah, 839 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: they also had the rapsy radio stations, so that's more 840 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,080 Speaker 1: like Pandora, you know. And they have their own kind 841 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,279 Speaker 1: of discovery algorithms as well, so that you can find 842 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: music that if you already like a certain kind of music, 843 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,200 Speaker 1: you can talk about. But it is interesting if you 844 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,560 Speaker 1: go back all the way back to the beginning days 845 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,120 Speaker 1: of Napster and you look at some of the things 846 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,759 Speaker 1: that Eileen Richardson said, it's the very basis for music 847 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,160 Speaker 1: discovery and things like Pandora. Yeah, the idea she actually 848 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,960 Speaker 1: says in that interview in Salon that if you like 849 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 1: a certain artist, you should be able to find other 850 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,800 Speaker 1: music that's similar to that artist, which is exactly what 851 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 1: Pandora is all about, that the Musical Genome project. So 852 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 1: it's interesting that she was looking ahead and she was 853 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: seeing a future that wouldn't really come to maturity for 854 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,000 Speaker 1: almost a decade. Yeah. I think in a lot of 855 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 1: ways Napster was was you know, it just was approaching 856 00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,920 Speaker 1: the industry in in an aggressively incorrect way. Um yeah, well, 857 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,919 Speaker 1: and and and the industry was reacting in a very 858 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,239 Speaker 1: uh like knee jerk way. So the combination of the 859 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 1: two meant that you were going to have nothing but 860 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,680 Speaker 1: a collision. But also, yeah, just the internet infrastructure was 861 00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,719 Speaker 1: not quite there yet to provide monetization for this kind 862 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,600 Speaker 1: of thing, and so you know, all of the ideas 863 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,839 Speaker 1: that they had were really sound and just But really, 864 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,080 Speaker 1: what I think it is is that the interesting thing 865 00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,080 Speaker 1: to me is that it really created the whole peer 866 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,200 Speaker 1: to peer approach. I mean, there were other peer to 867 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,560 Speaker 1: peer protocols that were coming into being right around the 868 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: same time as Napster, but Napster was the one that 869 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,600 Speaker 1: thrust it into the spotlight and you know, peer to 870 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,239 Speaker 1: peer is is is a completely legitimate way to get 871 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,759 Speaker 1: information from one computer to another computer. It doesn't have 872 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 1: to be for nefarious purposes or piracy or whatever. And 873 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: so I'm very thankful that Napster existed as a way 874 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,200 Speaker 1: to kind of get that as as an as as 875 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,879 Speaker 1: a thing. I mean, without it, we might have gone 876 00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,719 Speaker 1: a few more years before anyone really realized the potential 877 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,960 Speaker 1: for appear to pear transmissions. So that was something very 878 00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,800 Speaker 1: important in this whole Napster business. Alright, guys, that wraps 879 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: up this classic episode of tech Stuff. Hope you enjoyed it. 880 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,680 Speaker 1: And if you have any suggestions for future topics something 881 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: that I have not covered or maybe I need to revisit, 882 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,200 Speaker 1: let me know, send me a message on Facebook or Twitter. 883 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,280 Speaker 1: The handle we use at both of those is text 884 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,600 Speaker 1: stuff H s W. And I'll talk to you again 885 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:35,239 Speaker 1: really soon. Y. Text Stuff is a production of I 886 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,320 Speaker 1: Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my 887 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,000 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 888 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,160 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.