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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature the show where we crack open

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Speaker 1: the brains of animals, humans and make a delicious omelet.

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Speaker 1: We'll discover our shared quirks with all of nature's creatures.

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Speaker 1: Today we're talking about mental health. Humans aren't the only

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Speaker 1: animals that suffer from mental distress. In fact, we may

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Speaker 1: be able to take lessons from animal welfare to heal ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Lest you think it's all in your head, we'll also

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Speaker 1: discuss how mental health affects physical health, right down to

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Speaker 1: the cellular level. I did a little digging because I

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Speaker 1: was curious, why does the word cuckoo mean insanity? What

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Speaker 1: does the title One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest have

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Speaker 1: to do with insane silence? So cuckoo is on a

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Speaker 1: monopeia of the call male cuckoo birds make, But why

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Speaker 1: is it synonymous with being crazy? The idea that cuckoo

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Speaker 1: birds are quote insane comes from the observation that they

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Speaker 1: make that one repetitive, silly call of cuckoo, but also

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Speaker 1: that the cuckoos lay their own eggs in the nests

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Speaker 1: of other birds. So cuckoo became synonymous with foolish than

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Speaker 1: with crazy. But cuckoos aren't crazy, as we've discussed on

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Speaker 1: the podcast before, they're actually really clever brewed parasites, meaning

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Speaker 1: they intentionally lay their eggs in the nests of unsuspecting

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Speaker 1: host families so that their own chicks will be carefully

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Speaker 1: fed and raised by a stranger, leaving the cuckoo free

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Speaker 1: to mate and lay more eggs elsewhere. So the title

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Speaker 1: one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest is factually incorrect. Cuckoos

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Speaker 1: don't have nests at all, So cuckoos being cuckoo has

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Speaker 1: been debunked. But is there actual mental illness amongst animals?

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Speaker 1: We can't sit them down on a couch and talk

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Speaker 1: to them like we're in a New Yorker cartoon, So

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Speaker 1: how do we understand what's going on inside their heads?

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Speaker 1: And do animals experience human emotional ailments such as depression

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Speaker 1: and midlife crisis? On today's episode will look at mental illness, captivity,

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Speaker 1: and midlife crisis in animals and humans. You may have

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Speaker 1: heard of o c D obsessive compulsive disorder. As we'll

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Speaker 1: discuss it's a lot more complicated than how the popular

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Speaker 1: media presents it is just being tidy or obsessively clean.

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Speaker 1: People with o c D must complete certain rituals, whether

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Speaker 1: it's handwashing, turning lights on and off, saying a mantra,

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Speaker 1: or checking of doors are locked and it's not their fault.

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Speaker 1: The brain literally starts skipping like a record. A recent

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Speaker 1: University of Michigan study found that O c D brains

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Speaker 1: get stuck in a quote loop of wrongness. Technically speaking,

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Speaker 1: there's a malfunction in this singular opercular network that is

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Speaker 1: a central part of the brain linked by nerve connections.

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Speaker 1: This is, generally speaking, the quality control area of the brain.

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Speaker 1: It checks for errors happening during a task and is

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Speaker 1: responsible for adjusting or stopping a behavior. What happens in

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Speaker 1: the brains of people with o c D is that

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Speaker 1: this coldly control area over detects errors and has a

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Speaker 1: less functional stop action neural network. So you're stuck in

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Speaker 1: a loop. You're stuck in a loop. You're stuck in

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Speaker 1: a sorry, You're stuck in a loop where you think

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Speaker 1: you may have made an error and you can't stop

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Speaker 1: trying to correct it. And as we'll see, humans aren't

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Speaker 1: the only ones trapped in the O c D carousel.

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Speaker 1: With me today is Hannah Michael's comedian writer, anthropology major

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Speaker 1: and koala over welcome Hannah, Hey, what's up? Coal is

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Speaker 1: are gross? And I like that, So why are the gross?

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Speaker 1: All our supials are gross? All our supials are disgusting.

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Speaker 1: They are an evolutionary pit stop. Then we should not

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Speaker 1: have evidence of but we do because Australia, and they're real,

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Speaker 1: real nasty, all of them. They have weird junk and

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Speaker 1: they do weird stuff with it and it offends, it's

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Speaker 1: offensive to everyone. And they let you they let you

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Speaker 1: hold koalas in Australia because really, yeah, they're they don't

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Speaker 1: have rules or laws in Australia. You can do what

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Speaker 1: you can murder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went to the

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Speaker 1: zoo where they let you hold it and they were like, no,

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Speaker 1: you have to cradle its but you have to cradle

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Speaker 1: its button. So there's like just a photo of me

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Speaker 1: lest in a koala. And then I found out they

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Speaker 1: all have chlamydia. It's a oh yeah, yeah, yeah they do.

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Speaker 1: Actually there is um chlamydia outbreaks amongst koalas. And it's

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Speaker 1: interesting this book I read about, it's called Zubiquity. She's

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Speaker 1: talking about like how maybe we can learn about the

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Speaker 1: spread of STDs and humans by studying koalas because they're

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Speaker 1: just a bunch of disease riddled Yeah they're gross, like up, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're they're They also poop a lot in their sleep,

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Speaker 1: Like they sleep a lot because the eucalyptus leave that

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Speaker 1: doesn't provide much. Yeah, it's toxic, really fibrous, not a

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Speaker 1: lot of nutrition, so it takes a lot of energy

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Speaker 1: and time to actually digest. So they're like sleeping and

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Speaker 1: pooping almost the whole day, so like up to twenty

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Speaker 1: two hours a day. Yeah. Yeah, so we're exactly like

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Speaker 1: you're living the dream. They kind of are. We also

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Speaker 1: feed our young out of a kloacas ah chloacas. So

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Speaker 1: I'm glad we're starting on this note. Chloaca is always

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Speaker 1: a strong opener. So I want to talk about O

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Speaker 1: c D, which is the acronym for obsessive compulsive disorder.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of been a part of the public discourse

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Speaker 1: in a way that's like not too accurate, not too good.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you've heard people say off hand like I'm

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Speaker 1: a neat freak, I'm so O c D. Yeah, or

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Speaker 1: like like I like to organize my socks. I'm o

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Speaker 1: c D. Um My best friend has O c D

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Speaker 1: and his apartment is disgusting. It's just a poster of

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Speaker 1: female trouble, single chair, no soap. Yeah, well so I

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Speaker 1: have O c D. I actually had it as a

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Speaker 1: kid mostly, and like I mean, if you've ever seen

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Speaker 1: my college dorm, which thank god nobody has, but it

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Speaker 1: was disgusting. They all are. It's true, but it's not.

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Speaker 1: It's like there's not an exception. You're not like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm O c D. And therefore there is an underwear

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Speaker 1: hanging from the ceiling fan like there is there always is. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of misconceptions about a c D.

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Speaker 1: First is that it's either like a minor quirk. Some

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Speaker 1: people think it's just like this sort of minor thing,

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Speaker 1: and then other like there's also sort of the monk

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Speaker 1: perception of it, where it's all consuming part of your personality,

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Speaker 1: and it's like the truth is sort of like on

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Speaker 1: a spectrum. So for some people it's not that big

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Speaker 1: of a deal. For others it can be really like

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Speaker 1: a huge nuisance because they can't really function that well.

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Speaker 1: It's so it's so strong. It's also I think there's

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Speaker 1: this misperception that people that have it are like delusional,

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Speaker 1: Like I know that when I turn off the stove

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Speaker 1: and then I check like five minutes later, I know

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Speaker 1: it's not like magically turned back on by like stove gremlins.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like it's it's almost like it's kind of

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Speaker 1: rewriting your memory where it's like, well, I think I

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Speaker 1: turned it off, but like did I? And you know,

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Speaker 1: because like when you do a kind of repetitive action,

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Speaker 1: I think most people have had that where you're like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: did I kind of lock the door and you sort

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Speaker 1: of forget You're not sure. It's like that, except like

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Speaker 1: it happens like ten times and you're like, I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: pretty sure the fifth time around that got locked. So

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting because it's caused by a dysfunction of

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Speaker 1: neural networks, as we're going to discuss uh soon. Um,

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Speaker 1: And it's it's not like this just like a little

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Speaker 1: thing that you can kind of ignore because compulsion is

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Speaker 1: really powerful. It's um, it's like a short circuiting of

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Speaker 1: the brain where it's like a record skipping on a turntable,

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Speaker 1: like you don't mean to play the first ten seconds

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Speaker 1: of Babo O'Riley over and over, but like the hardware

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Speaker 1: is malfunctioning, like there's dust on the record or the

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Speaker 1: needles messed up. I don't really actually know because I've

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Speaker 1: never owned a record player because I'm a terrible millennial

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Speaker 1: that's killing the records industry. So I want to take

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Speaker 1: you on an imagination journey to to think land. So

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Speaker 1: it's my favorite kind of journey because I'm scared to

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Speaker 1: drive it. I was like when I talked about like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of scared to find someone's like, oh, well

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Speaker 1: driving is way more dangerous, and I'm just like cool,

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Speaker 1: now I'm scared to drive. Yeah. Yeah. I love people

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Speaker 1: who think that they can logic you out of anxiety. No,

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Speaker 1: you can't. You can't because like all of the potential

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Speaker 1: solutions to the to the worry that you have, we've

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Speaker 1: already thought of, and then you can make a new

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Speaker 1: worry out of right. Right, we're problem wizards, right, Like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're more likely to be struck by lightning and you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, lightning. Um. So, as we approach a

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Speaker 1: future where gene therapy seems more plausible, there's kind of

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Speaker 1: some like upsetting possibilities, So like you could have a

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Speaker 1: doctor turn behaviors on or off depending on their desirability.

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Speaker 1: Like so like for certain mental illness, that would be

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Speaker 1: great because it's like there's a lot of suffering. Um.

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Speaker 1: But then it gets it's like gets into this uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: territory of like, well, do we want to get rid

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Speaker 1: of everything that's not just like totally neurotypical? Does art

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Speaker 1: die if we do that? Maybe? I don't know. Have

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Speaker 1: you seen Gattica? So the premise of that is like

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Speaker 1: your ability to do a job, your applicability to like

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Speaker 1: be an astronaut or something, is they look at your

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Speaker 1: genes and they're like, oh, you have the strong genes

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Speaker 1: of an astronaut, or you have like so I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen Getica, but I've seen a thousand parodies of Gaetica

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Speaker 1: basically yeah yeah, um. And and in the movie, it's

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Speaker 1: like the guy's like, oh, you know, I'm not genetically

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Speaker 1: fit to be an astronaut, but I really want to

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Speaker 1: do it. So he's got to like have fake skin

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Speaker 1: cells that he collects from this other guy and like, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, like get a bunch of yearine. I guess

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Speaker 1: for tests. It's been a long time since I remember

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Speaker 1: what bodily fluids he uses to check the system. But

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Speaker 1: I think, you know this concept of like we are

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Speaker 1: hitting upon this thing where it's like, as we start

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Speaker 1: to get to the point where we can turn things

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Speaker 1: on and off, like how far can that go? To

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Speaker 1: the point where it's like, oh, we're actually taking all

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Speaker 1: of the diversity out of the human brain. And but

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Speaker 1: then so typically we think about it like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll get rid of all of the sort of quirks

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Speaker 1: or mental abnormalities. But what if you could actually give

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Speaker 1: someone something, Say you could give someone O c D

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Speaker 1: so that they'd be a really good copy editor, or

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Speaker 1: like quality control, so it'd be like gatica and reverse.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I wish you could do that later in

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Speaker 1: life too, because I feel like a lot of adults

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Speaker 1: growing up with problems was very helpful informative, and now

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Speaker 1: it's destroying their lives, just hypothetically a lot of adults.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of interesting because I can't decide whether

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Speaker 1: it'd be worse if you would like give someone against

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Speaker 1: their will O c D or take it away against

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Speaker 1: their will. But unfortunately we do this to mice because

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Speaker 1: we always do stuff to mice. Oh yeah, we do.

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Speaker 1: So scientists knocked out gene and mice which caused them

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Speaker 1: to engage in O c D behaviors. It's actually got

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Speaker 1: a really catchy name. It's called sap app three um.

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Speaker 1: It's a protein that helps brain cells communicate, so it's

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Speaker 1: like really good for There's this part of the brain

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Speaker 1: called the cortex stri item that it's like this bundle

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Speaker 1: of brain cells that help regulate reward motivation, stimulus response,

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Speaker 1: and motor function. So when you don't have that protein,

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Speaker 1: it's like trying to run a car that isn't properly oiled.

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Speaker 1: So given how O c D functions, it's this like

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Speaker 1: inability to correctly process information and give a response. So

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Speaker 1: there's a bunch of things that you can have where

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Speaker 1: it's these like repetitive loop compulsions that are a result

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Speaker 1: of that reward system malfunctioning. So like you have handwashing,

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Speaker 1: checking intrusive thoughts. There's even like fear of authority, like

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Speaker 1: where you're like, oh, I have to pray to God

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Speaker 1: like ten times otherwise you know he'll smite me with lightning.

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Speaker 1: So for mice, like what what do you think that

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Speaker 1: would look like like they're not praying to mouse God

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Speaker 1: or washing their hands. I don't know, I guess maybe

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Speaker 1: checking their feet or even there's they know there's no

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Speaker 1: food or Yeah, I feel like these mice have very

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Speaker 1: limited habitats. I don't know, Sniffing their babies, eating their

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Speaker 1: babies they do, like they do that anyway. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: just like to eat their babies. I think that's just

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Speaker 1: a normal mouse thing, Like like they're watching their little

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Speaker 1: mice TV and just have a bowl of babies that

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Speaker 1: they eat, maybe like eating a tail that they know

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Speaker 1: is their tail, but they keep biting it. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: that's actually pretty close to what they do. They groom

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Speaker 1: their face um and like like they do this fur

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Speaker 1: grooming over and over again. Um, so they like start

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Speaker 1: to get these open sores. It's really it's actually really

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Speaker 1: kind of creepy looking because they like, I know, it's

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Speaker 1: really sad. They have like these big bald patches on

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Speaker 1: their face and on their bodies where they keep grooming.

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Speaker 1: So when these scientists altered that gene that regulates the

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Speaker 1: function of the cortex stri item, they started developing all

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Speaker 1: of these sores, all of these bald patches. Uh, they

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Speaker 1: showed more anxiety and unfamiliar environments. And when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, actually had a hamster that had this big

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Speaker 1: bald spot on its head. He looked like one of

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Speaker 1: his friends siskan monks, like you know how they like shaved.

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Speaker 1: Why did they? I don't know why they did that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: my guests solidarity with one bald monk like at that

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Speaker 1: isn't fucking years ago. He's like the head monk and

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Speaker 1: they're all like, oh, well, we've got to be like

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Speaker 1: Jerry or he's gonna feel sad. Yeah, yeah, no, that

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Speaker 1: has to be it because that is not a handsome

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Speaker 1: hairstyle and sorry, it's not a good look. So I

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Speaker 1: had no idea that my hamster maybe had a CD

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Speaker 1: or something. And dermatillomania is a kid that's basically what

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Speaker 1: that is. Oh really yeah, yeah, that that is very

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Speaker 1: closely linked actually, So like when you have that that

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Speaker 1: reward system where it's like you do an action that

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Speaker 1: fulfills some kind of needs, So like scratching something, because

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Speaker 1: we all like do some amount of skin picking. It's

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Speaker 1: it's a dermotil mania is skin picking, like where it's

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Speaker 1: like you scratch. Yeah, I still bite the hell out

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Speaker 1: of my fingers when I'm nervous and gross, which a

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Speaker 1: lot of people do. People did that, I just as

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Speaker 1: a kid. It was at the point where it was yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, that's because like that is sort of like

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Speaker 1: what the mice are doing. They're like scratching sort of uncontrollably,

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Speaker 1: like I'm itchy. They can't they can't stop because that

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Speaker 1: reward system is going like no, no, you need to

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Speaker 1: keep like like turning yourself into a Franciscan monk. So

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Speaker 1: I have mixed feelings on gene therapy. I mean, obviously

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Speaker 1: like bestowing mice with o c DS bad or giving

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Speaker 1: it to people, But you know, it's like at the

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Speaker 1: same time, it's like if you get rid of every

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Speaker 1: deviation from the norm, you won't get like you know,

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Speaker 1: Pabo pacasas and like um van go or sorry van

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Speaker 1: GoF um, who's like, you know, he had depression and

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Speaker 1: obviously him suffering isn't worth all of the beautiful art.

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Speaker 1: Well maybe I know. I don't know, but you know,

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Speaker 1: from a humanist perspective, it's not. But then again, like

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Speaker 1: you would, it seems like there's a lot of like

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Speaker 1: artistic nous to like having a non near typical brain. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but like, primarily, can we just stop giving my society?

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Speaker 1: I feel like if TV shows are right, they're going

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Speaker 1: to become like these super intelligent detectives and then like

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Speaker 1: the next thing, you know, they're gonna put all humans

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Speaker 1: in jail for their crimes against mice, and they're gonna

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Speaker 1: be all like quirky and be like, I don't have

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Speaker 1: time for interpersonal relationships. I'm the mouse detective. Even though

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't necessarily want to get rid of my o

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Speaker 1: c D, for many people it is a huge burden

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Speaker 1: or even debilitating. So what are the options. There's cognitive

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Speaker 1: behavioral therapy and medication, of course, but for people with

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Speaker 1: intractable o c D there are more drastic methods. Transcranial

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Speaker 1: magnetic stimulation is a method of targeting areas of the

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Speaker 1: brain suspected to be associated with o CP and stimulating

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Speaker 1: the neurons with repetitive magnetic puluss Another alternative treatment that

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Speaker 1: is very slowly being researched is ketamine, you know, special

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Speaker 1: K vitamin K K ways blind squid ketamine. It's been

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Speaker 1: shown to have a pretty striking effect in a case

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Speaker 1: study a person with severe debilitating O c D that

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Speaker 1: was resistant to other treatments was given ketamine. Almost immediately,

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Speaker 1: his O c D symptoms vanished, and this lasted for

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Speaker 1: two weeks after a controlled dose of the drug. Researchers

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Speaker 1: aren't even exactly sure why it works, so obviously they've

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Speaker 1: started giving ketamine a mice to try and get to

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Speaker 1: the bottom of it. These my studies suggest that a

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Speaker 1: chemical byproduct of breaking down kettamine in the body might

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Speaker 1: be responsible. Is called Oh boy, here we go, hydro

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Speaker 1: oxyen or ketamine. Nicely nailed it, and alone it has

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Speaker 1: none of the addictive properties that edamine has. A Bunch

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Speaker 1: of people with O c D right now are like, oh, yes, great,

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Speaker 1: give me the drug that won't get me high. Thanks

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Speaker 1: a lot, scientists, Hey, get out of that khole. We'll

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Speaker 1: be right back after a few quick messages. When someone

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Speaker 1: tells the story of an alien abduction, we may think

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Speaker 1: they're just cuckoo, but researchers at Harvard aren't so sure.

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Speaker 1: There's a study that compared the physiological reactions of people

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Speaker 1: calling alien abductions to those who are calling real traumatic

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Speaker 1: events such as car accidents or combat experiences. What they

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Speaker 1: found was surprising people claiming to have been abducted by

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Speaker 1: aliens are the same sorts of physiological reactions when we're

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Speaker 1: calling their abductions as those who are called real life traumas.

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Speaker 1: So are aliens real or are these real memories implanted

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Speaker 1: not by aliens but by our our own brains. As

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Speaker 1: we've discussed on a previous episode of the podcast, sleep

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Speaker 1: paralysis can make you believe you are being abducted by

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Speaker 1: aliens because you see sleep paralysis interrupts the normal sleep cycle,

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Speaker 1: causing hallucinations while half awake. So these waking nightmares actually

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Speaker 1: implant themselves as real memories that haunt the abductees for years. Later,

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Speaker 1: turns out, deep inside, we were the aliens all along.

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Speaker 1: So why are we so scared of alien abductions? I

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Speaker 1: understand why we're scared of aliens. Their gross and they

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Speaker 1: have tinnacles and brains on the outside and whatever, But

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Speaker 1: shouldn't we been more afraid of them just straight up

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Speaker 1: murdering us. The idea of getting beamed up into a

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Speaker 1: flying saucer, living amongst creatures that you can't communicate with

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Speaker 1: or understand is kind of uniquely scary, And I have

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Speaker 1: a theory for why we're so preoccupied with it. But

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Speaker 1: before we do that, we're going to have to take

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Speaker 1: a trip to the mat genation station and board the

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Speaker 1: brain train to do so. Imagine you're going about your

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Speaker 1: daily life when you feel a pain in your butt.

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Speaker 1: You turn around and try to see who your assailant is,

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Speaker 1: but your vision starts to swim and you fall unconscious.

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Speaker 1: You wake up in what looks like a comfortable living room.

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Speaker 1: You have a headache. Okay, that's where my being able

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Speaker 1: to relate to this has stopped. So you try to

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Speaker 1: lie down on the couch. It's really stiff and uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: and you kind of try to adjust from the pillows,

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Speaker 1: but it's like attached to the rest of the couch

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Speaker 1: and it's like plastic. You've got to open the door

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Speaker 1: to escape, but it's locked, and you try to open

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Speaker 1: a window to get some fresh air. And you noticed

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Speaker 1: that the scene outside is very sunny and still and calm,

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Speaker 1: and the clouds aren't moving, and like there's a bird

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Speaker 1: just like midair midflight, just totally stationary. So you run

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Speaker 1: over to the phone to try to call nine one one,

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Speaker 1: but the receiver won't budge. It's just like a big

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Speaker 1: lump of plastic and like all the numbers just spell

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Speaker 1: out like phone. The TV is has a picture painted

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Speaker 1: on into your horror. It's the fixed image of Jay Leno.

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Speaker 1: And so in a panick, you go to the bedroom,

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Speaker 1: which is surrounded in ceiling to floor windows, and outside

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Speaker 1: you see the faint, shifting shapes of unknown creatures eagerly

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Speaker 1: watching your every move. So I think there's a reason

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Speaker 1: that human zoos are a trope in science fiction. The

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Speaker 1: idea of being condemned to the rest of your life

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Speaker 1: to live in a small exhibit alone and trapped amongst

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Speaker 1: like alien creatures that can never relate to you or

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Speaker 1: know your needs for like food and sleep, is really terrifying.

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Speaker 1: Like they don't know your social needs. They have like

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Speaker 1: maybe like a person shaped like pillow. That's like, I

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Speaker 1: am Steve Spawns. You see the television last night. But

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Speaker 1: it's just you know, their aliens. They don't know what

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Speaker 1: you need. But here's the mind fuck. We've been the

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Speaker 1: aliens the whole time. What, Yeah, because we remember zoos

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Speaker 1: and how we put animals in them and to the

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Speaker 1: animals worthy aliens uck. Yeah, yeah, it's have you ever

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Speaker 1: been to the san Diego Zoo. Uh when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid. Yeah, it's it's huge. Um, that's not the

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Speaker 1: one where the elephants keep dying. Maybe I'm not sure. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like elephants are there, and I would assume

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Speaker 1: that they die at some point. I haven't heard of

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Speaker 1: their being like immortal elephants like we we we'd probably know,

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Speaker 1: we'd probably know. I mean, I don't think that there's

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Speaker 1: been a rash of elephants dying there, but maybe I

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Speaker 1: don't know. An elephant died at Sydney's Taranga Zoo died

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Speaker 1: from herpes. What Okay, Australian animals are just plagued with STDs. There,

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Speaker 1: there's Australian animals like must be just having unprotected well,

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Speaker 1: I guess all animals have unprotected sex. Huh, I'm smart.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. But Nobo's sword fight with their dicks,

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's but I don't know what you

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Speaker 1: can get from that after tech the attack and he

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Speaker 1: also dick. That's yeah, I mean, like I read this thing.

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Speaker 1: It's is the elephant at Sydney's Taranga Zoo had a

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Speaker 1: sudden and acute battle with herpes, which is not how

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Speaker 1: I thought herpies worked. I think it's how it works

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Speaker 1: in babies, so it's possibly and elephants. I guess some

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Speaker 1: the adult human immune system can handle herpes, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it says it was a young agean elephant, um,

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Speaker 1: so maybe was too young. Oh man, this was It

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Speaker 1: started out really funny about like sex or elephant STDs.

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Speaker 1: Now it's like elephant babies dying. You know, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry for starting you guys on this elephant death search. No,

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Speaker 1: that's okay that we need to know. But but at

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Speaker 1: this point I am a certain I have made up

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Speaker 1: that there is one zoo around the southern California area

402
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Speaker 1: with a bunch of elephant deaths. It's far too late.

403
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Speaker 1: They're gonna sue you that there's already like a herd

404
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,239
Speaker 1: of lawyers writing like giraffes and rhino is just like

405
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: stampeding towards going like Hannah. So I actually really like

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Speaker 1: the San Diego through They do make a lot of

407
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Speaker 1: efforts to do animal Enrichmond, and they, like you said,

408
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Speaker 1: they're really big, so they are able to make pretty

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Speaker 1: good environments for their animals. But I mean even at

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Speaker 1: zoos like that out where it's like they really care

411
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Speaker 1: about conservation, they really care about their animals, there can

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Speaker 1: still be issues of the animals mental welfare. Even if

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Speaker 1: like their health is perfectly fine, they have enough exercise,

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Speaker 1: they can still have these issues. So, like going back

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Speaker 1: to the human zoo example, you know, even if you're

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Speaker 1: like taken care of and you're given healthy meals every

417
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Speaker 1: day and your captors seem to love you, you're gonna

418
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Speaker 1: get really bored of your fake house. Uh, You're gonna like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, just like seeing to yourself, bounce walls,

420
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Speaker 1: pretend to read all the fake books, like pacing around,

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Speaker 1: which is what animals do in zoos, exactly what they

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Speaker 1: do in zoos, and sometimes the researchers have to go

423
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: mining in a big pile of stinky polar bear poop

424
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: to check on their mental state. So in zoos like

425
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: these repetitive behaviors it wouldn't be called O c D.

426
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: They call them stereotypees, which is defined as like a repetitive,

427
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: unvarying and apparently functionless behavior pattern. So polar bears in

428
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: captivity will engage in repetitive pacing behaviors. They can also

429
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: do like facial ticks over and over which I feel

430
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: like if I was looking at a polar bear who's

431
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: like pacing and like eye twitching, like that would be

432
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: really scary because they're already huge and my entire face

433
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: could like fit in their jaw easily, and if they're

434
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: just pacing and like twitching, going like, oh geez, day

435
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: number one thousand, uh man. But some brave researchers wanted

436
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of this, literally because it's

437
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: bear poop, so they looked at levels of fecal glutico

438
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: cortoid metabolites. Okay, so basically it means there's stressed use

439
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: in or poop. So they found that the polar bears

440
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: who spent more time pacing also showed higher levels of

441
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: stressed juice in their poop. So the researchers concluded that

442
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: quote variables associated with reduced pacing at zoos were enrichment

443
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: numbers of bears in the group and bears having a

444
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: view out of their exhibit, with a strong suggestion that

445
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: the existence of positive reinforcement training program may also be important.

446
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: So like basically having a view outside social interactions like

447
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: everything you don't have at a cubicle job, right, So

448
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: aside from these lifestyle changes, Like, what can you do

449
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: for the polar bears that have the stereotypies? You know,

450
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: it's too bad. We can't just give them some prozac,

451
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: or can we? We can? It's like a facetious question

452
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: because the science we're looking into medications that they could

453
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: give polar bears, and so tranquilizers are not really great

454
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: for calming them down because it just makes them sleepy,

455
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: but no less dressed out. They're just like, I'm tired

456
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: and on board. This is the worst. And so like

457
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: when they tried prozac, it actually showed some promise. So like,

458
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: there's this case study of female polar bear where she

459
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: had pacing behaviors, facial ticks, huffing and coughing, all of

460
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: the these stereotypes that the polar bears can exhibit. It

461
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: was because she had been separated from her parents, and

462
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: then the zookeepers, because most zoop keepers aren't monsters like,

463
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: they wanted to help her. They reunited her with her

464
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: parents to try to calm the behavior, and it stopped

465
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: for a while, and then it re emerged a couple

466
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: of months later, which it's kind of like the diathesis

467
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: stress model and psychology where it's like you have physiological

468
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: predisposition towards like O c D or in the polar

469
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: bears case, the stereotypes, and then you have UM the trigger,

470
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: which would be being separated. So even once they corrected

471
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: the separation anxiety, she still developed the disorder because it

472
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: already kind of triggered that that progression. So she suffered

473
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,959
Speaker 1: from that for twenty two years, and then researchers started

474
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,959
Speaker 1: treating her with prozac and eighty four days after starting medication,

475
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: the pacing behaviors stopped, which, yeah, it's it's crazy because

476
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: it's like even in the field of clinical psychology, that

477
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: would be an incredible that's a really good UM outcome.

478
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: So it was very surprising that this would be like

479
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: the outcome for polar bears that we don't know nearly

480
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: as much about in terms of their brain physiology. UM.

481
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: And remember those poor mice who were given O c

482
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: D and looked like scarface. They are also treated with

483
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: prozac and they stopped showing symptoms. So that's good. I mean,

484
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: like the scientists gave them those CD in the first place.

485
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: I feel like they don't deserve any like out of boys,

486
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: But you know, But then the question is like, oh,

487
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: was there o c D cured? It's kind of hard

488
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: to say because like the behavior stopped, but we don't

489
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: necessarily know, like if their emotional state went back to normal.

490
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: What's neat about the poop thing is that that's a

491
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: sort of more objective measure of like stress levels, because

492
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: it's like, we'll see how stressed out your poop is. Yeah,

493
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: and if you have terrified if my toilet told me

494
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: I was your toilets like, yeah, you've been looking intense lately,

495
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, I know, toilet, get your job, take my pop.

496
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: Just want just shut up and take my poop, willya?

497
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: So we're left with moral questions from this this poop study,

498
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: like our zoo is bad for large animals mental health,

499
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: and does that justify keeping them there even for conservation?

500
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like if you're willing to dig

501
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: into a big steaming pile of polar bear poop, like

502
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: you're probably doing things right. I think. So I wouldn't

503
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: if Yeah, it's it's a hero's work. It's an unsung

504
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: hero's work of just like just scooping that up, And

505
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: I mean I would hope they would have some like

506
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: safety things, but like what if you're just in there

507
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: with the bear like sorting through their poop, and then

508
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: the bears like go on, like what are you doing? Bro?

509
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: It's like, it's fine, it's private. You don't need to

510
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: know about it. Bear. I remember when I first got

511
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: my dog, and I started like, you know, you take

512
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: them on the walk and you clean up their poop.

513
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: Like the first time she saw me do that, she

514
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: gave me such a look, where are you putting that?

515
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: Why are you collecting it? Like she's is like, I

516
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: mean she wanted to eat it, is the thing, like

517
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: she would eat her own poop when she was I

518
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: was gonna say, what a snob your dog is? Usually

519
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: they just eat that. Oh no, they eat it. But

520
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: but she was like she looked offended, like like you're

521
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: taking my poops and just throwing them away. That's a

522
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: perfectly good turn. I've been having a lot of really

523
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: weird thoughts because some that ship happened to me, And

524
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: now I think weird is the best literally my therapist

525
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: diagnosis looking for someone new hi um. And it goes

526
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: back to this so much because I just I start

527
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: thinking about like scary sex scenarios and I started thinking, literally,

528
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: if aliens come to Earth, what do I do? The

529
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: first thing I do show them the pandas, ask isn't

530
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: it weird that we forced these pandas to fuck? And

531
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: if they say no, that's not weird, you run, Oh, yeah,

532
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: that's a really good litmus test, like because you know,

533
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: if we do that to pandas and aliens see that,

534
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: they might get ideas. Yeah, I'm sorry, that is weird

535
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: because like we are so obsessive about panda's sex lives.

536
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: It's like it's really grossive us. Yeah, it's like, oh,

537
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: you're not having enough sex pandas. It's like, could you

538
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: just like not do that? Like could you leave them alone?

539
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: Is it any of your business how sex the pandas

540
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: are having, Like maybe they don't feel like it, you know,

541
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: maybe they have a headache every night. It's just none

542
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: of your business. So I was interested in confinement since

543
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: it affects polar bears and presumably a lot of other

544
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: animals mental health so much whether it affects the mental

545
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: health of people, and intuitively, it just makes that being

546
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: in prison is going to affect your mental health. That's right.

547
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: But there's actually a study published in the American Journal

548
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: of Public Health that looked at the rates of self

549
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: harm amongst incarcerated people, and they found that it was

550
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: significantly linked to solitary confinement. And the numbers were pretty

551
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 1: like pretty crazy because it's like, so only seven percent

552
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: of the prison population were held in solitary and over

553
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 1: fifty percent of the these incidents of like self harm

554
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: or behaviors sort of like the polar bears would go

555
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: through or or the mice where it's like kind of right,

556
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: we're all linked to people who had been in solitary,

557
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: which is it's really upsetting to me that like also

558
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: just like that we seem to care more about like

559
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: zoo animals than like people in solitary confinement, which is

560
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: a really uncomfortable thing. But it's like, you know, I

561
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: feel like if we're willing to like sift through polar

562
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: bear poop, like we're gold miners, like like old forty

563
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: niners panning for gold, Like maybe we could put a

564
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: little more effort into looking into like prison reform, you know,

565
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: maybe I mean, considering that they can talk to us

566
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: instead of to us probably, yeah, I mean, they're human

567
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: people who can use their words, and they don't. We

568
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: don't need to communicate to them through poop, like like

569
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: polar bears can we That's true, It's like you know,

570
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: I mean these people are bored. Yeah, for some reason

571
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: that made me think of like a poop Luigi board,

572
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 1: just using one of those see through things. It's like, oh,

573
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:58,919
Speaker 1: now it's going towards like the rat poop. So that's

574
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: not how I pictured Quiji board. Yours is better. Did

575
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: you just picture like AUGI board made out of poop?

576
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: It's just like a Weiji board. But like I just

577
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: pictured the pointy wand is poop like like you just have.

578
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: You wouldn't really change the function of the Wegi like

579
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: you're so you're all seven of your girlfriends that you're

580
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: sleepovers are like touching them one poop and likes seeing

581
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: where the poop goes. This is a haunted a haunted turd. Yeah,

582
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: I can see that. I mean, you know, Hasbro look

583
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: into that. I feel like we need a story of

584
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: gory revenge to make up for all the sad polar

585
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: bear science. Binkie was a polar bear who lived at

586
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: the Alaska Zoo and Anchorage. Pinkie maybe the name you've

587
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: given undersized balding chihuahua, but he was over one thousand

588
00:37:54,560 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: pounds of concentrated muscular spite. When a tourist scaled two

589
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: safety fences in order to get the perfect photo of Binkie,

590
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: he grabbed her leg, snapped through her bone, and kept

591
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: her shoe as a souvenir for three days. There are

592
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: photos of Binkie holding his shoe trophy. Humans, when learning

593
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: about a bad decision another human has made, will often

594
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: attempt to replicate that bad decision. So teens decided to

595
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: go pool hopping in Binkie's private pond. Binkie did not

596
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: appreciate this and mauled one kid, who was lucky to

597
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: end up alive. The zoo was kind of cagy about

598
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: whether Binkie was the one who attacked the kid, but

599
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: he reportedly had blood around his muzzle and what I

600
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: can only assume was a smug ass bear grin following

601
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: the incident. He also a bit off a zookeeper's finger.

602
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,919
Speaker 1: Despite all this, the zoos still loved him. They said,

603
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 1: Binkie is quote independent and quote likes to play games

604
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: and is a very smart bear. No doubt, be Key

605
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: achieved celebrity dumb for his maulings. Binky merchandise was produced

606
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: with photos of him holding the tourist shoe and saying, quote,

607
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: send another tourist. This one got away. I'm not kidding.

608
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: This is a real shirt. People sent in letters supporting

609
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 1: Binkie's decision to chew on intruders, and unfortunately Binkie passed away.

610
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: In people left him flowers, but I don't really understand

611
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: why they didn't leave a wreath of shoes instead. So

612
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: hopefully Binkie is frolicking in heaven, ripping angels to shreds. Hey,

613
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,479
Speaker 1: spit that show out. We're gonna take a quick break

614
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: and we'll be right back after these messages. So is

615
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: it just confinement that can cause mental anguish or is

616
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: it loneliness as well? Could fomo fear of missing out

617
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: one day be a medical diagnosis? Loneliness and isolation feel terrible.

618
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: There's this pain in your stomach when you yearn for

619
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: other people, that lump in your wrote when you feel rejected,

620
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: the tight sensation in your chest when you're left on read.

621
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: It's all in your head, right, Well, it's possible that

622
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: your body can actually be damaged by social seclusion. So

623
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: parents are very intelligent social animals. You can tell this

624
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: because once I was at the fair and I asked

625
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: this guy if I could pet his parrot, and he

626
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: said yes, and then I pet it in it like

627
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: nearly bit my finger off. They have very powerful beaks

628
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 1: for like crushing nuts, and this one like just bit

629
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: a big chunk out of my finger, like I was

630
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: like pulling my hand away and painted. It's kind of

631
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: like doing this like laughing noise. Parrots worse than thinky,

632
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: like it's like get me a shoe. So other than

633
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: that sociopathic bird, most parents require social stimulation to remain

634
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: emotionally healthy. Um. So there's this really creepy study where

635
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: these searchress looked at socially isolated African gray parrots, which

636
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: they're one of the most intelligent social species of birds.

637
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: Like parrots are really intelligent, and then of parrots, African

638
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: grays are like super smart. They're like the Stephen Hawkings.

639
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: It's hot because you know hawks well, Stephen Hawking is

640
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: a physicist. His name also it is shared with Anyway,

641
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: the loneliness deeply affected these parrots right down to their DNA.

642
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna have to explain some stuff about DNA.

643
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,919
Speaker 1: It's gonna be really really exciting. Tell him, yours are

644
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: the caps at the end of our chromosomes, so you know,

645
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: like how yeah, like your your little like noodles that

646
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: are DNA, and like on the end of him like

647
00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: you have like an X or Y or both or um,

648
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: I'm got understand, I got my noodles, You've got you

649
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,879
Speaker 1: got your gene noodles. And then at the end of

650
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: these is like a chunk of DNA that's kind of

651
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: effectively junk, like it isn't actually used to build anything

652
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: in your body, but it's essential because when the chromosome

653
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: is being duplicated, there are these enzymes that do the duplication.

654
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: They can't travel all the way down to the ends

655
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: of the DNA because like think of sort of like

656
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: a jacket zipper, like you can't zip it all the

657
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: way down or like comes off and like flies into

658
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: the void and then your jackets broken. So the telomere

659
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: is kind of like you know that little thing at

660
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,280
Speaker 1: the end of your jacket that like stops the zipper.

661
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: It's like that where it's like this buffer that protects

662
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: all of the important parts of your chromosome. So the

663
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: enzyme that's duplicating. It doesn't cut it off right up

664
00:42:54,160 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: create hand part um. So uh, but every time it

665
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: goes through the duplication process, it's shortened because it does

666
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 1: cut off a little bit of that telomere. So that's

667
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: why it's like associated with aging because like once you

668
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: start cutting down that tell mere enough, then like you

669
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: start to cut out the essentials like make more blood. Um.

670
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 1: As you can tell, I'm very good at understanding genetics. Um. So,

671
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: this study of these these isolated African gray parents showed

672
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: that the telomeres are shortened by stress and loneliness. Um So,

673
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: the test subjects that were kept alone instead of in

674
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: pairs had shorter telomeres than the ones that had someone

675
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: to be with. So don't get mad at the researchers

676
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: because like they didn't like evily like be like we're

677
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: gonna put this parrot alone. They just took um data

678
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: from these aternarians that like, I guess when the vets

679
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: were looking at African gray parents, are like, oh is

680
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: it alone or in pairs? And then when they would

681
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 1: do routine checkups, they had blood samples. And so this

682
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: study took place in Austria and it's illegal in Austria

683
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: to house African gray parents alone, which I totally agree

684
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: with the sentiment of the law, but it's so crazy

685
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: that there's such a specific law. They're like there's an

686
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: a parent lobby there that's like looking after parents, feeling like, no,

687
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: you have to buy two, you can't have one parent.

688
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: But obviously it's very poorly enforced because they were able

689
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: to do the study. So the researchers just took like

690
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: the existing blood work from the Vets Office and found

691
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: that loneliness can actually shorten the parent's lifespan. So I

692
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: feel like we should start a parent tinder and do

693
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: a good for the nature. So it's not just parrots though,

694
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: because there's a study of people over the age of

695
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: fifty in the UK and they found that a combination

696
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: of feeling lonely and not having much contact with family

697
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: or friends can actually predict that they would have a

698
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: shorter lifespan. So maybe we should start a parrot tinder.

699
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: But for humans, So, can you actually die of a

700
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:38,399
Speaker 1: broken heart? This is a hypothetical question because because I'm

701
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: about to say yes, you can, um so broken heart

702
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: syndrome is a real thing. It's this really rare event

703
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: when like you have a sudden stress like learning a

704
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: loved one has died, actually causes this cardiac muscle malfunction

705
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: that can be fatal. Um. It also goes by another name.

706
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: Here we go, I can do this tackets subo cardio myopathy. UM,

707
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: damn you, thank you, thank you, thank you everybody. Um,

708
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: here's where it gets really interesting. So Barbara and Nadderson Herowitz,

709
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 1: who is a cardiologist here at U c l A.

710
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: I don't know why I said here. We're not at

711
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: U c l A right now, but it is, you

712
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 1: know over there, Yeah, it's in LA. So she made

713
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 1: the connection between broken heart syndrome and humans and something

714
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: called capture myopathy and animals. Uh So when a small

715
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: prey animal is captured, it can just like die of

716
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: cardiac or s. So like these researchers who are trying

717
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: to capture these birds wants to like put the little

718
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: bands and then like a lot of them would just die,

719
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: I know, And they're like, you know, they're not trying

720
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: to kill them. They're just like trying to give them

721
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: a little bracelets. But the birds just like gave up.

722
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: I guess they're just like no, we're done. So Naderson

723
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: Horowitz found that there's this clinical similarity between animal capture

724
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: myopathy and human broken heart syndrome. She was saying that

725
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: we could learn a lot about human medicine from animals

726
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: and vice versa. But like, personally, I'm just waiting for

727
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: them to be able to like implant a lion heart.

728
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: Uh it means so like because like they're not scared

729
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: of anything, so they'll never die of a heart attack, right, scientists? Sure, Yeah,

730
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,760
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I'm going with lobster heart here. Oh really,

731
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: why I think some species don't die unless they're like named.

732
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. Yeah, so they do actually have a

733
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 1: really long lifespan. Yeah, no, you're totally correct. You take

734
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: that lobster heart with confidence that that's a very good,

735
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 1: good choice. But then, like, I mean, would you start

736
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: like having the qualities of the animal, like just like

737
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 1: pinching people all the time. I did that already. It's

738
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: like you can like get a rubber band on your

739
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: fingers and like, oh no, I don't know what to

740
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: do already done, Oh this is an audio podcast. I

741
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: do have a rubber beating. Remind me to do something

742
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is right, and she's she's

743
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: left like her hands are functionally useless now because she's like,

744
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: I can't figure out these rubber bands. No, it's I

745
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: tried biting them and that's the end of the list.

746
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: You've tried waving your hands around very slowly and nothing works.

747
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: So in Denver was being plagued by a wig wearing menace.

748
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 1: The quote midlife crisis banded has been responsible for three

749
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: bank robberies. He's called the midlife crisis banded because he

750
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,760
Speaker 1: appears to be in his forties to fifties. His weapon

751
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 1: of choice and open umbrella, which makes me suspect you

752
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: might be the penguin or Mary Poppins's delinquent son. As

753
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: far as I know, he's still at large, although maybe

754
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 1: he's outgrown his midlife crisis banditry. Where the police right

755
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: to label this man is going through a midlife crisis?

756
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 1: Does such a thing even exist? Well, as we'll discuss,

757
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: we might find the answers lie with a ringutans who

758
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: seemed to experience a midlife crisis at their own. Now,

759
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that Denver deputized in a orangutan to

760
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: get inside the mind of a bandit dealing with a

761
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: midlife crisis. But wait, no, no, I'm totally suggesting that

762
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: get a grizzled, hard drinking orangutan detective to begrudgingly come

763
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: out of retirement so he can catch a bandit can

764
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 1: maybe make a few friends along the way. So, Hannah,

765
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: would you believe that the concept of a midlife crisis

766
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: is very contentious amongst psychologists, sociologists, and economists. Uh? Sure,

767
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: I thought it was in sink because like I went

768
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: to um, uh the seminar by uh this economist Andrew Oswald,

769
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: and he was talking about like like all of the

770
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: drama behind like his research into midlife crisis, and it

771
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 1: was it was really fine to me. How it's like

772
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: there's just a lot of like frustration and drama and

773
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: anger into the research into midlife crisis. Like, well, I

774
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: guess you know, that's a pretty lively topic for economists,

775
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: so their attempts being made to quantify the phenomenon it

776
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: kind of may seem silly, like they're gonna research are

777
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 1: you kidding? They quantified the hotness of servers, like they'll

778
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: do anything like the hotness of computer servers or no,

779
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: like like human wait waiters and waitresses. Oh, like when

780
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: they're hot, the economy is bad? What again, could be

781
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 1: makeing this up? No? No, no, no, no, you're not.

782
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 1: This sounds I'm this sounds correct. I feel like how

783
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: they're doing this. I don't know. I want to know

784
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: who proposed this and got funding? I mean, what fucking creep?

785
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean like like I feel like

786
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: it's like like the the motivation behind the studies, Like

787
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go to a bunch of restaurants and

788
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: check out hot waitresses. Um, that's incredible, man, Yeah, like

789
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: just like funded by the boob Inspectors Society or something,

790
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 1: is it? I wonder which way the causality is going, Hannah,

791
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: Like if it's that hot servers cause the economy to crash,

792
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: or when the economy is crashing, only hot servers get hired.

793
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say hot servers are gods. Okay, So like

794
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,240
Speaker 1: so like they can actually control knew it. I knew

795
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: hot people were behind the economy always. So how do

796
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 1: you quantify midlife crisis? Are you like, oh, the amount

797
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: of like penis enhancement drugs that you take or like

798
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: cool impractical cars? Um? So actual midlife crisis. Clinically speaking,

799
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: you would measure it through like higher rates of anxiety depression,

800
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: and but the main measure would be overall life satisfaction.

801
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: Um funk, I'm gonna die at sixty. So Andrew all

802
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: Oswald again, because I mean, it's of course an economist

803
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: would do this, like when are people the most sad?

804
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: Uh So he studied surveys of mental well being and

805
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: across many different countries, and he found this consistent dip

806
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: during midlife. And to be fair, this is a little

807
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: bit of a contentious finding. It's an effect that's only

808
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: found in moralists fluent countries, and there's been yet to

809
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 1: be a study that like definitively isolates what variables are

810
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: affecting the levels of mental wellness, and so it's kind

811
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: of a it's a study in progress. So I'm interested

812
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: if we can look to our animal cousins for answers.

813
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: And so during this talk about humans being sad, he

814
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: also brought up animals being sad and that really that

815
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: was really a seems like a fun guy. Yeah, he

816
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: he was very fun. I actually I talked to him

817
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: after the thing and like he's like, so, so, what

818
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: do you do. And I was like, oh, I'm a comedian,

819
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: and he like gave me this blank look and then

820
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: just turned away to talk to someone. To be fair,

821
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: that is better than tell me a joke. But right, right, no,

822
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: it's but I don't think he was being intentionally rude.

823
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: I think it was just like he was not expecting

824
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: bad answer because these were all like like economists, thing

825
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: like like maybe he thought I was like making fun

826
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 1: of him. It's like, no, no, no, no, it's it's I.

827
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 1: I take it very seriously. So he was saying that

828
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 1: the midlife crisis isn't just a human phenomenon. That there

829
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: are studies of chimpanzees and ringatans that the animal caretakers

830
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 1: report there being a dip in their perceived happiness around

831
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: the chimp's middle age. So there are a bunch of

832
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: really great personality measures that were used in the study

833
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: that the caretakers would report they're all really interesting, but

834
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 1: I'm just going to point out a few of my favorites. Um,

835
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 1: there's stingy, lazy, depressed, defiant, predictable, jealous, sensitive, stable, manipulative,

836
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: and clumsy. So it's like the worst version of the

837
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: seven form just all terrible. And I also really liked

838
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 1: the idea of like a caretaker being like this champ

839
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 1: is stingy. It's like it's uh so, it's a little

840
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: bit subjective as you can't imagine. Um. Oh. Another good

841
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: one though, is that the caretakers were being asked if

842
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 1: they felt like the animals are, we're reaching their goals,

843
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: and that makes me wonder, like what would be like

844
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: a chimpanzee or an orangutan's goal. I feel like instinctively,

845
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: it seems like they live pretty day to day like scratch,

846
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: but get nice insects and eat them. I mean there's

847
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: a hierarchy. Yeah, I guess. Just get to the top

848
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: of that and get a lot of food right for later,

849
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 1: become the cool rang a tan that everyone looks up to. Yeah,

850
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: get get others to to pick the bugs off your

851
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 1: button right right, like you do a skateboard flip, and

852
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: then every next thing, you know, everyone's picking bugs out

853
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: of your ass. Crack. Yeah. When I was in Costa Rica,

854
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: you could actually tell the Capuchin's, You could tell what

855
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:07,359
Speaker 1: their social ranking was by hony stars. They had all

856
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: their faces. Yeah. It started out cool, yeah, yeah, and

857
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: then it got real dark. Real quickly, so like I

858
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 1: would imagine that the ones that are less high up

859
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 1: on the hark you have a lot of scars because

860
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: they're like bullied. Ye. It's sort of like in like

861
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: monkeys can be such dicks. The snow monkeys, you know,

862
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 1: the really cute ones with the red faces and like

863
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: the big poofy for codes in the Japanese hot springs,

864
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 1: y uh, And they're adorable because they go into the

865
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: hot springs and they just like chill out, but they're

866
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 1: also really clicky and mean. They like yeah, yeah exactly.

867
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 1: Like they're just like Karen at your local spa, who's

868
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: like giving you judge looks, so like if you're not

869
00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 1: a socially accepted um snow monkey, they're like no, no,

870
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: you don't get to be in the hot springs, which

871
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 1: really sucks because it's very cold there. And like there's

872
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 1: I remember watching one of the probably in Attenborough one

873
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,800
Speaker 1: where it's like a video of like this like snow

874
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: monkey and her child like shivering in the cold. Well

875
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 1: all these like posh monkeys were like like laughing it

876
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: up in the hot springs society, Man, are we in

877
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: mirrors too? The monkeys are the monkeys mirrors of us,

878
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, m hm, I'm sorry. I don't provide

879
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: free pot with the podcast, Like you don't just get

880
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 1: to get weed, so it's a little unfair for me

881
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: to spring those questions on you. Now, that's okay. These

882
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: questions are the weed. They are the weed, that's true. Yeah,

883
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: just getting a little high on some some questions about

884
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: monkey society. Um, so why do we see this dip

885
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: in the happiness of rayantans and chimpanzees, So sort of

886
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: like with the human midlife crisis, there's not really a

887
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: scientific answer yet. But I asked my friend who she's

888
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: actually worked with orangutans, and I wanted to see, like

889
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: what she thought about this study. And she thinks that, um,

890
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: because it's focused on primates and captivity, it could be

891
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: an effect that isn't found in the wild, So like

892
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 1: there's something about the captivity that affects their happiness around midlife.

893
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: So this is just like wild speculation, but it's my podcast, damnit,

894
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: and I can speculate as much as I want. I

895
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: wonder if there's like this sense of boredom or like

896
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: a realization of like a routine, like because I feel

897
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: like this may be the case for human midlife, Like

898
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: you've settled down, you have a job that you kind

899
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 1: of at this point where you're like, oh, maybe I

900
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: can't really switch jobs and I can't switch families, and

901
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: so you're just sort of like you get this sense

902
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: of like, oh, like this is the routine, and I'm

903
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: going to be doing this like X amount of years

904
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: until I get really old. So you feel like this

905
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: absence of choice, which I think can be a really

906
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: like kind of a downer when you feel like, oh, man,

907
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: I you know, I've been an accountant for ten years.

908
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: This is just this is my life now. My resume

909
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 1: is all freelance comedy. Yeah. I feel like for most

910
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: people when they think about being stuck in in jobs,

911
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: they don't think like freelance comedy, well, they should be dying.

912
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:41,919
Speaker 1: It's like it's like that Gary Larson cartoon where the P. T. Barnum,

913
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: the kids of P. T. Barnum like escaped the circuits

914
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: to go become accountants. Yeah. Yeah, it's this is an

915
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: audio podcast, and that's a very visual gag, but I

916
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: want want you to imagine it like these two little

917
00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: rascally kids exiting the circus tant it's Ry Larson. There

918
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: probably cows. Oh yeah, there, I mean everyone's cows. That's

919
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 1: Gary Larson's brand. So there's actually like and this sort

920
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: of gets into I'm gonna try to end the podcast

921
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: on a much happier note, which is how do you

922
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 1: be happy? And how do orangutans be happy? So for humans,

923
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: there's some interesting ideas about how to become happier, and

924
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: one of them is the psychologist named Robert Holden who

925
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: hosts laughing workshops, which is just like a circle of

926
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 1: people laughing. So like it's literally like I've seen videos

927
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: of it, like people like sitting on the floor in

928
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 1: a circle or lying down. I've seen these you know

929
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: you have in me hope and now I just want

930
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 1: to hunt down this guy. So like he just says

931
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: like now laugh and they all laugh like a bunch

932
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: of terrifying you're telling me it there is a way

933
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 1: to be happy, and then you're telling me the thing

934
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: that we all used to measure our jobs is worthless.

935
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 1: Well no, So what's interesting is the I mean, the

936
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: clinic is a little more complicated than just like laugh

937
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 1: my robot um. They're also like told to remind themselves

938
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: of happy things in their lives and like this is

939
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 1: not so this to be clear, this is not like

940
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 1: for people with clinical depression. This is not like a

941
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 1: substitute for something like that. It's just people who are

942
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: maybe like dissatisfied in life but not depressed, and so

943
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 1: like they do cognitive things like you don't have to earn,

944
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 1: deserve or work for happiness. But researchers recorded brain activity

945
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: and participants before and after to the clinic, and they

946
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: found that after the participants actually did have activity in

947
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 1: the left prefrontal lobe, which more closely resembled that of

948
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: generally happy people. So people who wrote on a survey

949
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: like yeah, I'm fine, which it's crazy to me that

950
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: you can like like simulate it by pretending to laugh,

951
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: which again is maybe a dangerous thing to say as

952
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: a commedian, like we could automate the comedy. I mean,

953
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: they tried it, um and again, I'm making all these

954
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 1: things up. Why are you pausing to listen to me?

955
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think they tried it in Edinburgh

956
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 1: and they tried to make a computer tell jokes and

957
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 1: it was just really racist and sexist. Oh no, see

958
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 1: you say you're making this up, but you're not. I yeah,

959
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: there have been multiple attempts at like these AI algorithms

960
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 1: that always just turned in a Nazis. Like there was

961
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 1: a there was a yeah, the Twitter gu Yeah, there

962
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: was the Twitter bot the girl who what was her

963
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 1: name this talk about that was trying to impersonate a

964
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: teenage girl and then she just turned into full like

965
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 1: like saying Nazi slogans and really racist stuff. Smarter child

966
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 1: never became a Nazi. Smarter Child out stayed pure. Yeah.

967
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of robots turn evil, but it's

968
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 1: death to all humans, not like humans based on your race.

969
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: But if like the idea of like forcing laughter at

970
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: like in a group like your occultists doesn't appeal to you,

971
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: there are other ideas on how to be happy. So

972
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 1: Dan Gilbert is a Harvard psychologist who says we're really

973
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 1: bad that predicting, like what's going to make us happy?

974
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: We overestimate things that will make us happier, like elections,

975
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 1: although hang on, I have a small problem with that

976
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 1: because I think, like maybe for more minor elections where

977
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 1: you're like I kind of want this guy in, Like

978
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: maybe that's true, but I think ones where it's like

979
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 1: it really is important. It does have I mean, I

980
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: know that has an impact life. Yeah, I mean because

981
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:58,959
Speaker 1: like I feel like the study may have been done

982
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 1: in those wonderful pastimes when uh, when elections seemed more normal. Um,

983
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 1: but other things are like romances, promotions, moving to your

984
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 1: destination of choice, or even like winning the lottery, which

985
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 1: again small point. There's actually this interesting curve of like

986
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,440
Speaker 1: how money improves quality of life, and it's sort of

987
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 1: it shoots up obviously because like money is important to

988
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 1: be able to live and be comfortable. But then after

989
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: you know your first cool million, it kind of plateaus

990
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: because like, you know, there's not a lot of difference

991
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 1: between your first mega yacht and your second mega Like

992
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 1: I don't think a rich person is like you know,

993
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 1: I wasn't really feeling it, but like once I got

994
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: like my third Lamborghini, I really just was satisfied. It's

995
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: really happy. But a few things that I can actually predict,

996
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: like how happy you're going to be is one, like, um,

997
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 1: your last memory of an event will kind of color

998
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: your whole emotional response to it. So like if you

999
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: have a great vacation, but on the last day, like

1000
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 1: you pooped your pants, Like you're gonna think, Oh, that

1001
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 1: vacation sucked. I pooped my pants. That was the vacation

1002
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: to Hawaii where I pooped my pants, not the one

1003
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 1: where it's like because I've been reading my words. So like,

1004
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: even if you have like like of your vacation was fine,

1005
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 1: you snorkeled, you like you served, you know, all these

1006
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 1: fun things, but like that one percent was you pooping

1007
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 1: your pants, Like that's gonna taint your whole experience. And

1008
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 1: so some of the best predictors of overall human happiness is, uh,

1009
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: the amount of time spent with family and friends, which

1010
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 1: sounds really sappy, but it's also kind of corresponse to

1011
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 1: the studies we talked about earlier with like the African

1012
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:56,000
Speaker 1: Gray parents and study of people in the UK, where

1013
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, it doesn't it doesn't even have

1014
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 1: to be like a spouse, like being married or even

1015
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: having kids don't necessarily predict your happiness, but just like

1016
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 1: generally spending time with friends, people you care about, like

1017
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 1: or maybe plants. There's this study that shows that so

1018
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 1: seniors living in a nursing home we're given a plant

1019
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 1: to water, and those that weren't given the plant had

1020
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 1: like much higher rates of mortality than those that just

1021
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 1: were given like this plant to take care of in water.

1022
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 1: And it's an interesting thing because like the the ideas

1023
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: that maybe like having that control over your environment actually

1024
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: sort of improves your quality of life, and like an

1025
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: improvement in your quality of life will make you live

1026
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,919
Speaker 1: a little bit longer because you're like, you know, maybe

1027
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: have more motivation to get up and walk around. And

1028
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 1: but I don't think you can just like give an

1029
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: orangutan a plant, because like they're typically surrounded by plants,

1030
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 1: even in zoos, So how do you make them happy?

1031
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 1: I mean it is actually pretty similar to human happiness,

1032
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: like you need like enrichment, socializing control over their environment.

1033
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:08,760
Speaker 1: And I talked to my friend again who like worked

1034
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 1: with orientans, and she said, there's five categories of enrichment.

1035
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: There's social, cognitive, physical, and sensory, and then my favorite

1036
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:22,720
Speaker 1: one food. Uh so, like food is different from sensory.

1037
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: It is, well yeah, so like physic Yeah, so like

1038
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 1: sensory would be like you know how like kittycats like

1039
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 1: to scratch things, so that would be like they're getting

1040
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 1: this sensory feedback from scratching your couch up and then

1041
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 1: like the physical is actually like the physical habitat that

1042
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 1: they live in, so like the space, so like having

1043
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 1: having a place to like go and eat in private,

1044
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 1: you can do things like give them puzzles with food rewards,

1045
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 1: as actually at the San Diego Zoo kind of recently

1046
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 1: and I saw the girl has had these little like

1047
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 1: envelopes filled with I guess pumpkin seeds or some kind

1048
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: of food reward, and they're just like it's really kind

1049
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 1: of funny because like this huge really just like bussing

1050
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: with this little tiny owned block really long periods of time.

1051
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: They were just like so interested and they were getting

1052
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: tiny tiny pieces of food out of it. Like it

1053
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 1: just doesn't seem like it would be that like motivating,

1054
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:25,519
Speaker 1: but I guess it was interesting enough, and like there's

1055
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 1: like a little hole they had to like figure out.

1056
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 1: It wasn't the most complicated puzzle, but we gave them jobs. Yeah. Yeah,

1057
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 1: it's like you're a Maleman now, and it's like, yes,

1058
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: I am a Maleman. So also, this is really cute.

1059
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,840
Speaker 1: She was saying that like really social animals need to

1060
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: have a good relationship with their caretakers, so like with dolphins,

1061
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,839
Speaker 1: and sea lions if you're if you're training them. Before

1062
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:55,680
Speaker 1: they get trained, they're shown photos of different trainers and

1063
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: then the dolphins like boop their noses to the photo

1064
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:00,720
Speaker 1: of the person they want to work with, and then

1065
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 1: that's that's who they'll work with. Um. And then imagine

1066
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:10,639
Speaker 1: being an ugly trainer, like you're the last one picked

1067
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 1: by the dolphin and I don't know what dolphin standards are,

1068
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,640
Speaker 1: and then like that dolphin that gets stuck with you

1069
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: just kind of looks at you guys like, um, I

1070
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:26,559
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, maybe looking at these kind of

1071
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 1: like enrichment things that we do for animals might help people,

1072
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 1: like you know, maybe we should put our sandwiches inside

1073
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:39,560
Speaker 1: of a puzzle or like uh, but you know, more realistically,

1074
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 1: like the kind of like socialization stuff where it's like

1075
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:44,920
Speaker 1: with a lot of things, like you know, you just

1076
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:47,680
Speaker 1: kind of eat food regularly, but like I feel like,

1077
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: and you're you're the anthropology person, but like food seems

1078
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 1: like a very social thing. So so it's like we're

1079
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 1: sort of more in the fast food era of like

1080
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,759
Speaker 1: you shove a thing in your mouth while you're driving

1081
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:07,960
Speaker 1: to your six jobs. But like I think it's interesting

1082
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:11,960
Speaker 1: because I think maybe like part of like human enrichment

1083
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:15,760
Speaker 1: would like actually being making food and then having it

1084
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 1: be like a social experience. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I

1085
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:21,640
Speaker 1: mean we do that. We do that a lot. We

1086
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 1: have ceremonies around that, we have Oh wait, you were

1087
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:28,600
Speaker 1: saying Thanksgiving. Okay, Oh it's I don't know if that

1088
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 1: would be pro social though. Thanksgiving more of a combat arena.

1089
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:35,679
Speaker 1: I mean, but that's what most of our like meal

1090
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 1: gatherings are combat arenas. There are a lot of both,

1091
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 1: and that it's kind of enriching in no way, and

1092
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:46,840
Speaker 1: actually it's infuriating. Yeah, it's fucking I swear to God

1093
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 1: if Grandpa says anything about Israel. But that causes me

1094
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 1: to research to state solution issues. And yeah, it's a

1095
01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: form of enrichment, except like, like the puzzle is like

1096
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 1: how do I get out of this conversation with my

1097
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 1: uncle without like how do I get him to not

1098
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:12,680
Speaker 1: use the word Palestinian. Yes, it's not just human contact

1099
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 1: that helps make us happier. Animals have been scientifically proven

1100
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:20,600
Speaker 1: to improve moon and stress levels. A cute stress was

1101
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 1: reduced when study participants pet a soft, fuzzy rabbit versus

1102
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 1: when they pet a soft puzzy toy. Grooming and caring

1103
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 1: for horses can help with reducing the negative impacts of PTSD,

1104
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 1: and it's not just the fuzzy, cute animals that can

1105
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 1: help us. A study found that when elderly people were

1106
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:42,720
Speaker 1: given pet crickets, they reported feeling less depressed than a

1107
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 1: cricketless control group. I guess the key to happiness is

1108
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:52,559
Speaker 1: lots and lots of crickets. So how do you got

1109
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 1: anything to plug? I probably have shows, Okay, I will

1110
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 1: tweet it if I have a show, probably unless it's

1111
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 1: a bad show, in which case I won't do that.

1112
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 1: But please book me anyway. It's at Hannah Michael. So

1113
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 1: it's h A N A M I C h E

1114
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 1: L S. I know, I don't know, but it's it's

1115
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: a long story, awesome. And you don't have to apologize

1116
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 1: for your name named name. Gotta gotta use your lobster

1117
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 1: heart and just like put your name out there when

1118
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:29,679
Speaker 1: I slam this claw on the table, you accept that name.

1119
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:34,799
Speaker 1: So you can follow me on Twitter at Katie Golden

1120
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:38,559
Speaker 1: or I mean, I would also suggest very strongly following

1121
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 1: at pro bird writes my bird Twitter, where I'm definitely

1122
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 1: a human doing a bird and not a bird controlling

1123
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 1: a human puppet. Um, And you can follow us at

1124
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,840
Speaker 1: Creature feet Pod. That's not beat pot like, like, it's

1125
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 1: not about beat so it's like the shortened feature anyway,

1126
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 1: just just you can. You can probably find us on Twitter, Instagram,

1127
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 1: m on Facebook, and of course join us next Wednesday

1128
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:12,759
Speaker 1: for a more creature feature m hm