Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories, Done done.
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up n sv podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm one of your hosts, Kara Klank and I'm Elisa Traeger.
Speaker 2: We talk SVU crime and we do not have celeb
Speaker 2: guests because we are in the strike in the horn
Speaker 2: of a union.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but we got a good one for you. Like always.
Speaker 2: The only thing I didn't do much this weekend, but
Speaker 2: I would like to share.
Speaker 4: I did see the movie Strays.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you wanted to see that so bad.
Speaker 4: I went alone.
Speaker 2: I went to see Strays at just in our Highland
Speaker 2: Park Theater, which is very old timy. It's cheap, it's teens.
Speaker 2: The screen is not good like it is pretty funny.
Speaker 1: It's floor it's sticky, like your feet stick to the floor.
Speaker 1: But I like going there because it reminds me of
Speaker 1: when I was in high school going to see movies exactly.
Speaker 4: And the prices are not and I like that.
Speaker 2: It's they seem like teens that care less than the
Speaker 2: teens that are at AMC or Regal, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. Yeah, they're more bad teens. Like they're just
Speaker 2: lounging on their phones on the counter. There is no
Speaker 2: boss overlords and there's no uniforms, so they're slutty and
Speaker 2: their boyfriends are visiting them.
Speaker 4: And I enjoy that, I really do.
Speaker 2: But I was embarrassed because there were teens behind me,
Speaker 2: and I think they were fooling around, but they were
Speaker 2: being loud and they kept getting louder. There's only like
Speaker 2: seven of us in the theater, and they just kept
Speaker 2: getting loud, and at one point they were so loud.
Speaker 2: But I felt so weird to try to tell someone
Speaker 2: to shut up during a talking dog, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 4: I know it's like I'm gonna miss the plot. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I just put into it.
Speaker 2: I was like, you gotta let the teens just talk
Speaker 2: as loudly as they want, because you you know, they
Speaker 2: have skateboards.
Speaker 4: I'm not messing with them.
Speaker 2: And for the dog movie, but it was funny, but
Speaker 2: I was the only one laughing. I actually I want
Speaker 2: to be in more packed theaters, like I was the
Speaker 2: only one laughing, or maybe I'm.
Speaker 4: Just a fool, but I wrote, you know, I enjoyed it.
Speaker 4: It was silly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well the teens are like not laughing because they're like,
Speaker 1: what if my friend doesn't think it's funny. I mean,
Speaker 1: or they're busy giving each other hand jobs or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but like, oh no.
Speaker 2: There were two orgasm noises that came from the back there.
Speaker 4: They were not behaving.
Speaker 2: And that's not a big theater, Like if you're hooking
Speaker 2: up at the AMC or something, you're you're a pot.
Speaker 4: You're in the back.
Speaker 2: You're like, so there's only like maybe twenty rows maybe
Speaker 2: like honey, what if I need to pee once?
Speaker 4: And I see everything? No I heard? I was I
Speaker 4: felt old for sure.
Speaker 1: You're making me think of the time where I was
Speaker 1: way younger than I am now.
Speaker 4: And I yelled at.
Speaker 1: A bunch of teens at the premiere, not the premiere
Speaker 1: the first Hunger Games movie. When I went to go
Speaker 1: see it, I was in the front fucking row. So
Speaker 1: I was so pissed because that movie is like, not
Speaker 1: the movie you want to be in.
Speaker 4: The front row? Four Like what movie do you want
Speaker 4: to be in the now? I'm just saying, like a
Speaker 4: movie that's more.
Speaker 1: Just like like I could see book Club in the
Speaker 1: top in the front row if I had to, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like there's not action sequences where
Speaker 1: your whole like body is like you can't even see
Speaker 1: what's going on because you're so close.
Speaker 4: And then these teens next to me were like, would
Speaker 4: not shut up, and I was.
Speaker 1: Like, be quiet if I'm in the front row, I'm
Speaker 1: not like not letting you ruin this for me.
Speaker 4: And that's the last time I remember yelling at a teen,
Speaker 4: So that was many years. Did they listen or did
Speaker 4: they tell you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they thought they were quiet after they were quiet
Speaker 1: after I told them I was nice.
Speaker 4: So I was like, can you guys just stop?
Speaker 1: And they were like yeah, okay.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The only movie I remember distinctly being really in the
Speaker 2: like front row was Pineapple Express.
Speaker 4: Okay, that so because I.
Speaker 2: Do love a lot of old timey shit, but I
Speaker 2: do like reserving seats. It's nice, Yes, it's you know,
Speaker 2: you can come a little later. You don't have to
Speaker 2: watch the pre like it really used to be such
Speaker 2: a race, and I like getting my time gifted back
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah that was Hunger Games was absolutely in a pre
Speaker 1: reserved seat. Time, because I was like, I've already bought
Speaker 1: my ticket, Like I didn't even consider that I could
Speaker 1: like get a refund and come another time. Like I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm here. I have to see Hunger Games.
Speaker 1: I have to see it in the worst way possible.
Speaker 1: So I saw it at a with my neck at
Speaker 1: a forty five degree or even steeper angle.
Speaker 4: But oh, you know what I've been wanting to.
Speaker 1: Do forever is shout out are We have a good
Speaker 1: friend named Amy Phillips who we've been on her We've
Speaker 1: been on her Patreon. She has a great patron about Bravo.
Speaker 1: She's like the woman that imitates all the housewives. Her
Speaker 1: therapist listens to our podcast and I just want to say, Hey,
Speaker 1: you're doing the Lord's work out there helping people with
Speaker 1: their minds. Thank you for listening. I told her we
Speaker 1: would give her therapist a shout.
Speaker 4: Out, and here I am doing it.
Speaker 1: And then, speaking of all things Bravo related, we Lisa
Speaker 1: and I are actually going to be guest hosting the
Speaker 1: daily show on Sirius XM called Reality Checked.
Speaker 4: It's on every day from one to.
Speaker 1: Two Pacific, so if you're on the East coast, that's
Speaker 1: four to five. So that's kind of like your drive
Speaker 1: timer when you're going to pick up kids from school
Speaker 1: or whatever. That's a great time, Sirius XM Radio Andy.
Speaker 1: It's called Reality Checked, and it's the week of September eighteenth,
Speaker 1: which is my birthday week. If you don't tune in,
Speaker 1: you're specifically not giving me a birthday gift. Eighteen nineteen,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, twenty two. We are going to be
Speaker 1: on every day for an hour.
Speaker 4: Talking about Bravo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really fucking excited, and we're gonna feel like
Speaker 2: real radio jockeys. You know, I'm gonna feel like Eddie
Speaker 2: and Jobo. I can't wait. Those are our boys in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Or for me, Elvis dray On from Z one hundred. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll just feel like we got a collar coming in.
Speaker 1: But ba ba boo, Like I can't wait for us
Speaker 1: to be fully zany shock jocks.
Speaker 2: I'm really I'm really fucking jazzed. And this actually reminded
Speaker 2: me of are we we went to dinner. We did
Speaker 2: go to dinner. We did see Mandy Moore and Hillary
Speaker 2: Duff at the same restaurant.
Speaker 4: Excuse me together together with men.
Speaker 2: That are just like a sketch artists drawing of a
Speaker 2: man like, no distinguishable characteristics, nothing, just blurs of a beard,
Speaker 2: Like you don't even look at these little torps.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you have Mandy Moore and Hillary Duff walking by you.
Speaker 1: You were like, I'll give you five million dollars to
Speaker 1: give me two physical descriptions of one of these men.
Speaker 4: I would be like, I would actually do it because
Speaker 4: brown hair and beard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I don't know the brown hair. I'd
Speaker 1: be like, I think, like, I don't. I was really
Speaker 1: I didn't even register their faces. It was full prosopagnosia
Speaker 1: face blindness, did not register them at all. I had
Speaker 1: only eyes for Mandy Moore and Hillary Duff, and it
Speaker 1: was amazing.
Speaker 2: It was amazing. I wish I was just so focused
Speaker 2: because we knew Hillary was there. Our friends saw like
Speaker 2: on the way to the bathroom, so that was confirmed.
Speaker 2: And I wish I wasn't so focused on Hillary Duff
Speaker 2: that I got.
Speaker 4: More into my eyes and brain of Mandy Moore.
Speaker 2: She's just like a tall blur to me that I liked, magnetic.
Speaker 2: You could tell why she's a star, But too quick, Oh,
Speaker 2: I'm actually looking at a gift bag right now. I
Speaker 2: went to the store Shorthand in our neighborhood. They have
Speaker 2: such good cards. Oh yeah, they have cards for things
Speaker 2: that no one else does. There's one about like congratulating
Speaker 2: someone on being sober and how hard it is to
Speaker 2: be sober. They have cards if your pet passes, they
Speaker 2: have like they just have such supportive cards that you
Speaker 2: don't see in other places.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're beautiful too, They're all just like such
Speaker 1: pretty cards a Shorthand.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just I'm obsessed with it. I didn't wait.
Speaker 2: So you got a message from someone a DM and
Speaker 2: they had a question for me.
Speaker 1: Yes, we got a message from a listener that really
Speaker 1: made me lol. I took a screenshot I sent it
Speaker 1: to Lisa that was just like, can someone explain why
Speaker 1: Lisa went to an evangelical college when she is the
Speaker 1: biggest jew around?
Speaker 4: Like, what's happening? How did this happen?
Speaker 1: You know, whether my word's not theirs, but how did
Speaker 1: Lisa end up at this midwestern evangelical college?
Speaker 2: And I was like, what a great question. We will address.
Speaker 2: It's so perfeit question. And I'm so excited to dive
Speaker 2: into this. So I went to Iowa State. That's where
Speaker 2: I went in the beginning. Do I regret wasting my
Speaker 2: family's money? Of course, I don't know why I went
Speaker 2: to the Iowa. It was to follow my passion advertising.
Speaker 2: So I arrive at Iwa State, I'm there for a
Speaker 2: year and a half and I drop out my second
Speaker 2: semester sophomore year.
Speaker 4: It just was not working out for me.
Speaker 2: There there were some arrests, and if you want to
Speaker 2: know more about the arrests, I did a show on
Speaker 2: Comedy Central called This Is Not Happening and it's on
Speaker 2: YouTube and I tell all my arrest stories and yeah,
Speaker 2: cool show. So after I dropped out, I went home
Speaker 2: and I wasn't really like allowed a break.
Speaker 4: I had to like, what's up next? What's going on?
Speaker 2: So I decided I want to work in the music business,
Speaker 2: and I went to Columbia College for a semester for
Speaker 2: music business. I am tone deaf and it is insane,
Speaker 2: and I was working at a hair salon. I was
Speaker 2: going to Columbia College and within a semester I knew
Speaker 2: this was not my path. And so there was a
Speaker 2: girl that was on a real world in my class.
Speaker 2: She was annoying. I kind of want a stalk her
Speaker 2: and find her. Ooh, that'll be a fun adventure for me.
Speaker 2: So then I decided I wanted to be a pe teacher,
Speaker 2: and I remembered my old pe teachers, a couple of them.
Speaker 2: And when old softball coach went to this place called
Speaker 2: North Park and it's in the city. It's on Foster
Speaker 2: and Kedzie in Chicago, and that's only like a twenty
Speaker 2: minute drive for my parents' house. So I just thought, okay, great,
Speaker 2: and they advertised it like it's a commuter school. So
Speaker 2: there's billboards everywhere of all different types of city kids
Speaker 2: hanging out. And it's a big issue because they they
Speaker 2: advertised like, oh, we're just a city college, come on down.
Speaker 2: And I thought it was gonna be like Leola, Notre
Speaker 2: Dame de Paul, like sure, it's religious, it's jesuit, but
Speaker 2: like not really. And then it was truly evangelical, no gay,
Speaker 2: no abortion, get married at nineteen, like brag about your
Speaker 2: fucking mission trips, like gross. It was I went and
Speaker 2: open minded, chill, and then I just kept having to
Speaker 2: write essays on gay issues like is jay marriage okay?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, this is so not an issue for me.
Speaker 2: You don't even know where I've worked and what I've done.
Speaker 2: Like I it's like, at that point, I had worked
Speaker 2: at hair Salon's as a team with just like drag
Speaker 2: queens and derby girls and like cool ass people, and
Speaker 2: then I was in this college so regressive, having to
Speaker 2: like talk about gay as if it was an issue
Speaker 2: that it just it was fuck Yeah. But I also
Speaker 2: regret it because within that mile of that college there's
Speaker 2: another college, Northeastern, and I just felt like it wasn't
Speaker 2: good enough for me.
Speaker 4: But it would have been. It's a four year college.
Speaker 2: It would have been so much cheaper, it would have
Speaker 2: been easier, It would have been amazing, but I wouldn't
Speaker 2: have met my best friend.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was gonna say Julia, So yeah.
Speaker 2: And then I switched to sociology because I found comedy
Speaker 2: at twenty one, and so I just switched to sociology.
Speaker 2: And I did like my little core girl group. I
Speaker 2: would say, like, we did have a great senior seminar.
Speaker 2: We did cool experiments and essays and like I loved
Speaker 2: the one professor I had who recently passed.
Speaker 4: Actually, and then so you stayed there for two more years?
Speaker 2: Well, I actually had one more semester with a few
Speaker 2: credits that I had to do because of all the
Speaker 2: transferring I did, like not everything transferred, and we're lucky
Speaker 2: that I had a friend and that worked there. Some
Speaker 2: things were shifted, some things were counted. So I surprised
Speaker 2: my parents with my graduation. So my sister told them
Speaker 2: that they were going to a Russian concert and then
Speaker 2: they just stopped at McDonald's and then I was in
Speaker 2: the McDonald's and my cap and gown ready for them.
Speaker 4: And then it was a surprise.
Speaker 2: And I knew my dad was in a good mood
Speaker 2: because we went to Ma Giano's and we got to
Speaker 2: get apps and desserts and I got like a mint
Speaker 2: a grasshopper dessert drink. Like I could tell he was
Speaker 2: really in a good mood when we went. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: love it. But they were so surprised. Yeah, so that
Speaker 2: was that's the long tail. Should I have gone to
Speaker 2: Northeast Stern? Should I have stayed in school? Like I
Speaker 2: tell the youth, don't waste your parents' money at our loans,
Speaker 2: Like it's really, I guess, do you want to go
Speaker 2: where you want to go in your teen? But it
Speaker 2: is not a regret, but I feel bad. I feel guilty.
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, I know that's life. You experience
Speaker 2: things to get where you are, but I do feel bad,
Speaker 2: like they work so hard. It took all their money
Speaker 2: for what we to take economics in Iowa. Like it's
Speaker 2: just it's insane. College is so fucked. But I hope
Speaker 2: all of you that have just started college or grad
Speaker 2: school or your kids have just started school are having
Speaker 2: an amazing September school year.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm like seeing friends that I have that
Speaker 1: are older drop their kids off at college. I know
Speaker 1: your sister's just dropping one of your nieces off at college.
Speaker 2: It's like, nuts, Yeah, I got them. I got her
Speaker 2: a card at Shorthand. I mean, they're not paying me
Speaker 2: for this, but I'm telling you, they just have like
Speaker 2: such thoughtful things, like I know you're having a hard time,
Speaker 2: but I'm here for you.
Speaker 4: Like what, like it's just so sweet. It's just so sweet.
Speaker 1: Do they have a card that says congratulations on your
Speaker 1: podcast going on tour? Because guess what, guys, we're going
Speaker 1: on tour. I'm not going to get into it too much.
Speaker 1: We're always plugging our tour. But tonight, as of the really, well,
Speaker 1: you gotta keep plugging.
Speaker 2: Because what happens is then someone goes, when are you here,
Speaker 2: and it's like, honey, we were there.
Speaker 4: A month ago. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: Stop fast forwarding, guys, you got to know when we're coming.
Speaker 1: Tonight we're in Atlanta, so this very evening that you're
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, if you're in Atlanta, come and
Speaker 1: come to our show alone. Everybody talking about how they
Speaker 1: need a friend to go. We've had so many people
Speaker 1: come to our shows alone. They meet friends. They'll stick
Speaker 1: you at a table with other people who came alone,
Speaker 1: or they'll stick you out a little group and you'll
Speaker 1: have fun. Everybody meets friends, they meet up again when
Speaker 1: we come back to town.
Speaker 4: It's great.
Speaker 1: And then tomorrow night we're in Charlotte, and then the
Speaker 1: next Thursday night we're in Raleigh.
Speaker 4: Please come see us. Guys.
Speaker 1: This is as south as we're going on this tour,
Speaker 1: so come and see us, and then check out That's
Speaker 1: Messed up live dot com for all of our other dates.
Speaker 4: One more little thing I'd like.
Speaker 1: To plug is that my husband is producing a scripted
Speaker 1: podcast for iHeartRadio and Imagine Entertainment. That's Ron Howartz company.
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to meet him on a zoom tomorrow we'll
Speaker 1: see what happens.
Speaker 4: I'll report back. And it's really funny.
Speaker 1: It's like a scripted, semi scripted, semi improvised podcast about
Speaker 1: the breakroom at a big box store like a Walmart,
Speaker 1: and we just talk about or we play all these
Speaker 1: different characters. I'm on it. It's called Employees Only. It's
Speaker 1: wherever you get podcasts. We are a bunch of characters,
Speaker 1: a bunch of funny stand up comedians, and we all
Speaker 1: are playing different characters and we just talk about.
Speaker 4: The news of the week.
Speaker 1: We have little relationships with each other. It's kind of
Speaker 1: just like a little fun sitcom. And the episodes are
Speaker 1: like twenty twenty five minutes long, so they're very easily
Speaker 1: digestible on a little errand. And I would love if
Speaker 1: you guys would listen give it a review. You know,
Speaker 1: it's over there on iHeartRadio, but also everywhere Apple, Spotify,
Speaker 1: all the places where podcasts live.
Speaker 4: So that's my relief on it. We're out there, we're hustling,
Speaker 4: we're out there.
Speaker 2: And if you're in New York, I'm doing Brooklyn October eleventh,
Speaker 2: a big bell House show that I'm.
Speaker 4: Excited about am I opening? Are you in town? I
Speaker 4: don't know if you're going to be leaving or not.
Speaker 2: No, I was gonna open you okay, fuck yeah, fuck yeah.
Speaker 1: This is so I'll be doing. I'll be doing a
Speaker 1: couple of minutes. Everybody come see. Yeah, and then I
Speaker 1: might add one more friend. Then this will be fun.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I figure as much I figured you'd like, because I'll
Speaker 1: just do like ten or something.
Speaker 2: Y'a'll have our pal host let me. I'll ask her
Speaker 2: before I.
Speaker 1: A yeah, no, and a couple of our mutuals are
Speaker 1: already coming, they told me. So let's get this episode started, baby, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've got a We've got this is a very god
Speaker 1: My friend that I was gonna ask to do the
Speaker 1: pod to open for me in Brooklyn is calling me
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 4: It's a sign it's happening.
Speaker 2: Hold on, I'm gonna answer you. We're starting the episode.
Speaker 2: I'm answering my friend. I've been ignoring her for days.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We're We've got an awesome episode for
Speaker 1: you guys. You know I'm podcasting girl. We are doing
Speaker 1: Born Psychopath. I'm so excited. And this is for all
Speaker 1: the shameless fans as well. This is a little baby
Speaker 1: Carl and he's grown and he is evil. Okay, wait,
Speaker 1: what does character like on that show? I've only ever
Speaker 1: seen that guy in this they're all trouble.
Speaker 2: Makers, like that show is a bunch of like trashy
Speaker 2: poor people in Chicago causing crimes in trouble.
Speaker 1: But does he talk like in this, like with a
Speaker 1: dull affect kind of or like he sounds like almost
Speaker 1: like a surfer Cali guy to me, even when he's
Speaker 1: doing this character.
Speaker 2: I remember he was like a young kid. I mean
Speaker 2: when it started, I think he was like a child child,
Speaker 2: and then he got bad and started. You know, that's
Speaker 2: what happens. They'll start as children and then they all
Speaker 2: be you know, get people pregnant or get pregnant, like
Speaker 2: the whole thing where you're.
Speaker 4: That's why I stopped watching it.
Speaker 2: Because Jeremy Allen White's character Lip got into college. He's
Speaker 2: like a secret genius. I was so happy for him.
Speaker 2: Then they fucked it up because of and I go,
Speaker 2: you know what, if you're not gonna let Lip go
Speaker 2: to college, I'm done watch.
Speaker 4: I'm mad. I gave up.
Speaker 2: I gave up after five seasons. I was like, I'm
Speaker 2: not fucking dealing with this. We can't have one little
Speaker 2: guy finished college. I'm done one little guy like and
Speaker 2: then they just made everyone in the into bad, bad,
Speaker 2: bad bad. But yeah, I don't know. I don't think
Speaker 2: he talk like this little Carl.
Speaker 4: I don't know. Whatever.
Speaker 2: We're starting out. We have a sassy babysitter. There's a
Speaker 2: nose piercing and a feather earring. Her hair is crispy,
Speaker 2: and the back we see some kids eating while she's
Speaker 2: on her phone wishing she had a better job. Her
Speaker 2: eyebrows are thin and she is smacking her gum so
Speaker 2: and in the at the table in the back, there's
Speaker 2: a little girl and boy and they're bickering like children do,
Speaker 2: and Irena is not having it, and she just like
Speaker 2: gives the girl more milk. The milk spills. Fuck, what's
Speaker 2: gonna happen? Everyone's running late. The mom comes in she
Speaker 2: has to go to work, and then she's like, and
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be late, and Irena goes, no, bitch, I
Speaker 2: have plans and I have concert tickets. And the dad
Speaker 2: comes in and then the mom goes to shower and
Speaker 2: the little girl sucks and is like, Irena is texting,
Speaker 2: so oh, no, one likes her, and then the dad
Speaker 2: is also also says he can't be home and if
Speaker 2: she can change her plans, and it's like, fuck.
Speaker 4: No, Yeah, she gave you her a vail.
Speaker 2: She cannot watch your dumb kids like I.
Speaker 1: But you know what I was actually I don't know
Speaker 1: what the situation is with Arena, but I was talking
Speaker 1: to my friend at camp over the weekend or the
Speaker 1: week or whatever about OH pairs. If you have oh
Speaker 1: pairs and your house, they have to work a certain
Speaker 1: amount of hours, so sometimes you have to not that
Speaker 1: this is fucked up. You should obviously let her go
Speaker 1: to the concert. But I didn't realize that, like there's
Speaker 1: like minimums where it's like you have to hit these hours.
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? How would anyone know? Like
Speaker 1: what do you what does that even mean?
Speaker 4: I don't know. They were just telling me. They're like, yeah,
Speaker 4: you have to hit these hours.
Speaker 1: So, like their kids are in school for the day,
Speaker 1: so they sometimes make them work on the weekends so
Speaker 1: that they get like their free time is like during
Speaker 1: the day, but then on the weekends they have to work.
Speaker 1: Right nights they have to work. So maybe they're just
Speaker 1: like sorry, girl, you gotta get your hours in. It
Speaker 1: makes up these out. It's not like I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't even think she's an no pair. I don't
Speaker 1: think she lives with them. I was just it was
Speaker 1: just came to my mind.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but Irena does not seem like an
Speaker 2: no pair. She is not teaching them any languages. She
Speaker 2: is really pissed to be there. I would say she
Speaker 2: is a woman after my own heart, Like she's not
Speaker 2: happy here. She came to this country. She's probably trying
Speaker 2: to get a visa going, and like she's figuring it out,
Speaker 2: like does this is not her passion. She's not hanging
Speaker 2: out from Ireland, you know, for an adventure. She is
Speaker 2: trying to get the fuck out of this job, to
Speaker 2: be honest, and these parents suck. I'm sorry. But he
Speaker 2: kisses the kids and he runs away as fast as possible,
Speaker 2: and the boy turns to his sister and goes Nobody
Speaker 2: likes a snitch, And I'm with him.
Speaker 4: I'm with him.
Speaker 2: And I was listening to a different podcast with like
Speaker 2: a friend of mine and she was as a teacher
Speaker 2: and as a caregiver.
Speaker 4: Don't you hate the snitches too?
Speaker 2: Like no snitch, no one that is a hattletail, Like,
Speaker 2: you're not winning the hearts of the adults.
Speaker 4: The adults now also think you're a loser.
Speaker 2: So shout out to les culchursays with greta title man, because.
Speaker 4: I agree with that. So the mom is walking out.
Speaker 2: The door with the girl and the boys like, I
Speaker 2: want dad to take me to school, and it's like,
Speaker 2: well he's gone, babe.
Speaker 4: He doesn't like you, like they all don't.
Speaker 2: Want to be with you. The sitter, your mom, your dad,
Speaker 2: they all don't like you at all. So finally he's like, fine,
Speaker 2: then mom will take me, and the little girl says, no,
Speaker 2: that's not fair.
Speaker 4: I want mom to take me.
Speaker 2: You know she took you yesterday, and he flips out
Speaker 2: nothing's ever fair, nothing has.
Speaker 4: Ever for him.
Speaker 2: So the mom is like fine, So they switch, so
Speaker 2: IRENA's gonna take the daughter and then Henry we find
Speaker 2: out as the boy, and the mom's gonna take him,
Speaker 2: and then we also find out what.
Speaker 1: Oh, no, I was just gonna say, do you know
Speaker 1: this actress Hope Davis?
Speaker 4: No, it's the mom. No, oh, I love to say
Speaker 4: something about her.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well people probably have seen her in Succession,
Speaker 1: which I don't watch.
Speaker 4: But she was just in a bunch of episodes of Succession,
Speaker 4: I guess.
Speaker 1: But I watched her in this wild, fucking weird show
Speaker 1: called Wayward Pines, and I really like her.
Speaker 4: I think she's a great actress. She's been in a
Speaker 4: lot of shit. I don't know.
Speaker 1: She feels like a I can't I can't think of
Speaker 1: like what other actress she reminds me of, but she
Speaker 1: feels like she works a lot. She's like in Perry
Speaker 1: Mason and like in all this kind of shit, like
Speaker 1: a lot of prestige television. But anyway, I was wondering
Speaker 1: if you knew her from anything because I remember her well.
Speaker 2: No, and I think her care. I mean, I feel
Speaker 2: bad for these people, I guess, but her care. I
Speaker 2: was just so annoyed at their family unit. I didn't
Speaker 2: look into them any further. I didn't even look at
Speaker 2: what Carl's doing today. I don't even know his real name.
Speaker 2: I keep calling him Carl, like I don't. I have
Speaker 2: no idea, I have no idea.
Speaker 1: Ethan Kotowski is this guy's name, okay, and is working
Speaker 1: up to let's see Ethan.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: His picture on his IMDb is fashion he Shameless one
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty four episodes and then he readid this,
Speaker 1: and then he has only had a couple of credits
Speaker 1: since then in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4: But he's got something coming out and coming up. I
Speaker 4: don't know. Yeah, actually it seems like he has. He
Speaker 4: doesn't have that many credits. Maybe he went to college.
Speaker 2: I mean, Shameless is ten or eleven seasons, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like, yeah, maybe it's maybe it's good
Speaker 2: to get a nice, healthy break so you don't end
Speaker 2: up like I don't even know.
Speaker 4: I'm not giving this simple.
Speaker 1: The IMDb says he started doing ads when he was
Speaker 1: four as a way for him and his mom to
Speaker 1: spend time together.
Speaker 4: Aa. That's cute. I love that. That is cute.
Speaker 1: But the mom's like, there's a great way we could
Speaker 1: spend time together where you make our family a lot
Speaker 1: of money come.
Speaker 2: Into this audition room. So anyways, this so this is
Speaker 2: what that's we got a little.
Speaker 4: Career corner moment, and now we're back.
Speaker 2: The nanny Irena is going to take Ruby, the daughter
Speaker 2: to school, and the mom is gonna take Henry to school,
Speaker 2: and that is what happened. And then right when Irena
Speaker 2: is gonna zip up the jacket, this little bitch has
Speaker 2: to pee and Irena is mad. She's like, what the fuck,
Speaker 2: I just put new tights on you, And the Mom's like, oh,
Speaker 2: come on, she always does this. So the Henry and
Speaker 2: Mom leave and IRENA's shaking her head and chewing her
Speaker 2: gum as she sends Ruby to the bathroom.
Speaker 4: But now we cut to Ruby.
Speaker 2: She's in a medical office and she's talking about how
Speaker 2: her head hurts and she has a bump and her
Speaker 2: tummy hurts, and when the doctor picks up the shirt,
Speaker 2: there is a huge bruise on her side, like giant,
Speaker 2: giant bruise. And we cut straight to Tomorrow, who is
Speaker 2: with his son, but the son doesn't know it. His
Speaker 2: name is Gil, so it's a nephew. It's uncle Lamarro.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of drama. Nothing's ever simple with Amorrow.
Speaker 2: And he's talking to his nephew's slash sons class about
Speaker 2: cop shit. So they ask if he's ever shot anybody.
Speaker 2: We know the answer and it is yes, and he
Speaker 2: will shoot a child. But here he goes, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: I've just pulled my weapon. That's it. But we know
Speaker 2: the truth, and he shows off his bulletproof vest and
Speaker 2: he like hits it like a little gorilla, and then
Speaker 2: it's ring ring. He's got to ditch the lecture and
Speaker 2: run back to work, and the nephew confirms that they're
Speaker 2: still going to go to the Rangers game tomorrow night.
Speaker 4: Plan is set. They will be watching hockey. Now.
Speaker 2: Tomorrow enters the precinct and Benson asks how his son is,
Speaker 2: and Tomorrow goes, well, he doesn't know he's my son,
Speaker 2: but yeah, he's fine. So they're at the doctor's office now,
Speaker 2: and the mom is there and the dad is coming
Speaker 2: in from Hartford, which is wild. Usually people live in
Speaker 2: Connecticut and come in for a job. So the fact
Speaker 2: that he lives in Manhattan and goes to Connecticut for work,
Speaker 2: I guess he's missing the traffic. He must be doing
Speaker 2: something in insurance because Hartford used to be the insurance
Speaker 2: capital of the country.
Speaker 1: Like the insurance companies are, yeah, yeah, like a lot
Speaker 1: of insurance companies are, like Base. It used to be
Speaker 1: like a big insurance city.
Speaker 4: And where do they all go now? I don't know.
Speaker 4: My insurance company's out of Texas.
Speaker 2: I think, well, we'll see what happens because you know,
Speaker 2: my niece will be starting at your university soon. I know.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, oh my gosh, I need to find out.
Speaker 4: I leave immediately.
Speaker 2: She we're in the time machine or whatever we're recording,
Speaker 2: who knows, but she is leaving like tomorrow for school.
Speaker 2: But what I like about that university is that they're
Speaker 2: getting ten days before classes start, so they ask for
Speaker 2: them to get there, and then classes don't start till
Speaker 2: after labor Day.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we did like a week, but ten days. It's great. Yeah,
Speaker 4: maybe it's just a week or but that made nice.
Speaker 4: That's really nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you get to like, yeah, you like meet people,
Speaker 1: you go to parties and stuff. But tell her that
Speaker 1: all the parties during that first week are kind of
Speaker 1: like week and then they get better.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, no one knows each other. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 4: not even the party on campus. Yeah, okay, cute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to text her and see what dor
Speaker 2: she's Oh my god, I'm not going to right now,
Speaker 2: I know. So, you know, she's holding an ice pack
Speaker 2: to her head and lying to Benson about how she
Speaker 2: just fell, and then she says that she was with
Speaker 2: the monster and what did the monster do? Benson asks,
Speaker 2: and the monster pushed her until to shut up, and
Speaker 2: Benson nods, and then we just have credit time, so
Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot going on. They're giving us
Speaker 2: a lot, and we don't know who is this monster.
Speaker 2: And also the monster was used, which is wild in
Speaker 2: the episode what was that one called intent with Kevin
Speaker 2: from Shameless? So both the Shameless episodes are calling characters monster.
Speaker 2: So that's something that I just realized right here in
Speaker 2: the moment Live. That's why you guys come here for
Speaker 2: this post.
Speaker 1: That's what you pay the big bucks for this kind
Speaker 1: of knowledge.
Speaker 2: So the mom is like, what the fuck? Why are
Speaker 2: the police here? We are good parents. We live on
Speaker 2: the Upper West Side, And Tomorrow's like, ellollo, okay, so
Speaker 2: tell us about your morning, and she recaps the morning
Speaker 2: and Benson is interrupting and the mom is like what happened?
Speaker 2: And she's like, why don't you tell us? And the
Speaker 2: mom is like, you know, I don't really know. I left,
Speaker 2: and Tomorrow asks why nobody wanted the nanny to take
Speaker 2: them to school and if there's any issues with the name,
Speaker 2: and the mom explains she is a new nanny and
Speaker 2: the kids just want their mom. It's but also she
Speaker 2: is illegal and does have communication issues. I fucking told
Speaker 2: you she's here for a visa baby, she's not, you know,
Speaker 2: learning English on her spare time, and so they're like,
Speaker 2: we need to talk to her. But she works for
Speaker 2: another family in the building during the day while these.
Speaker 4: Kids are at school.
Speaker 2: Then we find out Ruby, the daughter, she is having
Speaker 2: a lot of accidents, you know, peace situations, and we
Speaker 2: know from watching SVU if you pee a lot, you
Speaker 2: are being molested.
Speaker 1: So she.
Speaker 2: But the mom is crazy, and the mom goes, okay,
Speaker 2: but we're just gonna take her to piano lessons, and
Speaker 2: Henry has swim and Benson's like, you cannot take her
Speaker 2: to piano classes. She's clearly injured, she's clearly abused and traumatized.
Speaker 2: She doesn't have to fucking play piano today. I just
Speaker 2: hate these parents and it's really hard for me to
Speaker 2: have sympathy for them for this whole episode.
Speaker 4: But whatever, I hate the dad a lot. Oh, the
Speaker 4: dad is infuriating. I infuriating.
Speaker 2: So then Benson of course is like, cancel the lesson
Speaker 2: and someone needs to bring Henry here. So we're back
Speaker 2: with the feather earing illegal nanny, and Rollins is asking
Speaker 2: her question, while a baby sits in a chair trap toy,
Speaker 2: what are those called?
Speaker 1: I call it an office? Wait, you mean like where
Speaker 1: they stand up and they play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I like that. Yeah, the kids are in
Speaker 2: the office doing their paperwork. Yeah. Irena says that Ruby
Speaker 2: just fell down the stairs and she thought everything was fine,
Speaker 2: and they're like, wait, come again, and she's like, listen.
Speaker 4: The mom wents a shower, milk was spilled.
Speaker 2: I sent Ruby to get new tights, and while I
Speaker 2: went to the laundry room, I heard her crying. And
Speaker 2: they're like, so you didn't see her fall halfway down
Speaker 2: the stairs or anything. She goes no, But then they're
Speaker 2: questioning why she didn't tell the mother, and she goes,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: She said she was fine.
Speaker 2: Like why am I going to involve this shitty mom
Speaker 2: into all of this? So Rollins asks her where Henry
Speaker 2: was during all of this, and they say that he
Speaker 2: was just sitting eating waffles, smiling, and you shouldn't be
Speaker 2: smiling on your own. That's unless you see a cute puppy.
Speaker 2: If you're just sitting eating a waffle smiling.
Speaker 4: No independent smiling.
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no, no, no, something's wrong. I
Speaker 2: actually I was sitting out on a patio yesterday and
Speaker 2: these two dogs came up and I go, oh, we're
Speaker 2: about to get These are such cute little Pomeranians.
Speaker 4: And it's like she knew. She came up to us
Speaker 4: and did a little show.
Speaker 2: It's like so cool when you know that the puppy
Speaker 2: knows about its power. And then when the puppy walked away,
Speaker 2: it turned its head to be like bye girls, like
Speaker 2: it was a supermodel. Anyways, the mom walks in panicked, like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, what is going on? Why are the
Speaker 2: cops here? And this is the mom of this other
Speaker 2: child that she's babysitting in the building, And her apartment
Speaker 2: seems way shittier than the other families. So I think
Speaker 2: Henry and Ruby's parents are in the penthouse and then
Speaker 2: everyone else is just in like shitty apartments. It's so
Speaker 2: much different, total different tax brackets and Finn and Rollins
Speaker 2: and of course I know if I could live in
Speaker 2: an apartment like that in New York City, I would
Speaker 2: love it.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's just very stark difference. I would say.
Speaker 2: Finn and Rollins introduced themselves and the mom grabs her
Speaker 2: baby and is like, what the fuck, and they're just like,
Speaker 2: this is just a routine matter. But the mom turns
Speaker 2: and glares at their illegal nanny, and you know, the
Speaker 2: nanny is squirming uncomfortably.
Speaker 4: She'd like to stay in the country.
Speaker 2: And we're at the corkboard hour at the precinct and
Speaker 2: the photos of the family are up on it and
Speaker 2: they're just having a little brainstorming meeting. There's severe bruising
Speaker 2: and a cracked rib and a monster So those are
Speaker 2: the clues, and the records show a bunch of old bruises, fractures,
Speaker 2: four er visits in the last year. That's a concussion
Speaker 2: of finger pinched in a door, and two skull burns.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if skull burn in. That doesn't
Speaker 2: sound good. And then what do we know about the family?
Speaker 2: Daddy Craigan asks, and we have a marrow with all
Speaker 2: the scoop.
Speaker 4: She's a VP at AMX.
Speaker 2: Hello baby, I'm a customer and he's a systems engineer
Speaker 2: with Amtrak. Okay, so I don't know what he was
Speaker 2: doing in fucking Hartford. Then no, but he's a systems engineer.
Speaker 2: Maybe there was like he had to fix a train
Speaker 2: or something, and I would like to say this might
Speaker 2: be disgusting, but I love an Amtrak hot dog.
Speaker 4: I really do.
Speaker 2: Interesting if I get to have an Amtrak hot dog,
Speaker 2: I'm in a good mood, like I really I really
Speaker 2: enjoy that. And it is gross that you know that
Speaker 2: they're steamed and they're little wet, but they're perfectly wet
Speaker 2: in a in a sick way. So anyways, this couple's
Speaker 2: been married for fourteen years and Henry is ten years old.
Speaker 2: Irena is from Soviet Georgia, bitch, and she's been working
Speaker 2: for them for five months and that only accounts for
Speaker 2: one of the er visits, so that evidence bodes well
Speaker 2: for her, Like these injuries have been happening way before
Speaker 2: her and the other mothering.
Speaker 1: With like why is Arena does she split with another family?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because these kids go to school, and I think
Speaker 2: when the kids go to school, she goes to this
Speaker 2: other family during the day with the baby and then
Speaker 2: picks the kids up.
Speaker 4: So it's like a perfect kind of Okay.
Speaker 1: Because I was watching it, I was like, wait, why
Speaker 1: is there another mom?
Speaker 4: Like Okay, so I got it. Yeah, is that so
Speaker 4: shocking to you? No?
Speaker 2: I just didn't figure it out and was like wanted
Speaker 2: confirmation you're a fucking idiot. Okay, but so yeah, this
Speaker 2: other mom who's kind of poor has no issues with her.
Speaker 4: But also I am curious at everyone's job. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I love everything. I want to know everything about everybody.
Speaker 2: Craigan wants to talk to you know, cause I used
Speaker 2: to babysit in these areas.
Speaker 4: I babysit.
Speaker 2: I got to Columbia professors, so I'm really I'm on
Speaker 2: IRENA's side and all of this.
Speaker 4: I used to do.
Speaker 1: I used to Also, I was a babysitter on the
Speaker 1: Upper West, Upper East all over Yeah, oh god.
Speaker 2: The professor's apartments were so long and gorgeous and wooden
Speaker 2: and sexy, and their kids were all like I remember,
Speaker 2: these two kids did a breakdance competition in front of me,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, wow, you guys have no shame, Like
Speaker 2: you know, you're really loved in this household.
Speaker 1: Like well, think of lu Adela SEPs whose son breakdanced
Speaker 1: on national television and they kept it in a teacher
Speaker 1: who had had a teacher, a breakdancing teacher.
Speaker 2: You're totally right, I just like loved I loved these kids.
Speaker 2: The dad was an author and I read his books
Speaker 2: and they were good, like it did feel cool doing
Speaker 2: the professor's kid. And then the other Upper West Side
Speaker 2: story I have, it was like a smaller apartment a
Speaker 2: new family, but they were Orthodox Jews. But it's not
Speaker 2: like they could tell me you're watching Jews today, you know,
Speaker 2: as a backup nanny. So I had randoms and so
Speaker 2: I brought shrimp fried Rice's my lunch and they made
Speaker 2: me eat it outside in the hallway.
Speaker 4: So that's, oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like, why don't you give me a
Speaker 2: heads up if it's a kosher home. But also the
Speaker 2: chance of me bringing shrimp into this kosher home was
Speaker 2: pretty fucked up too.
Speaker 1: But my baby sat on the Upper West Side for
Speaker 1: a very well known director's daughter for her children, and
Speaker 1: their apartment was just a full floor overlooking Central Park,
Speaker 1: just the elevator opens, full floor, like huge, beautiful apartment.
Speaker 1: They were, They were cool, and she didn't work. She
Speaker 1: was just like my grandfather. My father is this massive director.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you off who it is.
Speaker 4: But okay, back to the episode.
Speaker 2: Back to the episode or babysitting memories are done.
Speaker 4: No, JK.
Speaker 2: I also babysat for a family up there. She taught
Speaker 2: music and piano at Colombia. Oh ooh, I know, but
Speaker 2: it's cool because the professors get those apartments.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like a college gives her to them. Yeah. I
Speaker 4: just think that's so cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my aunt used to rent one of her apartments
Speaker 1: on the Upper West to Columbia because they will pay
Speaker 1: anything for professors.
Speaker 4: It's so badass.
Speaker 2: Craigan wants to talk to the older brother, Henry, so
Speaker 2: they're like, let's talk to Henry and see what's up.
Speaker 4: Let's talk to neighbors. Teachers.
Speaker 2: Dorman like, we need to find out who the smile
Speaker 2: and who's hurting little Ruby. So we're at the child
Speaker 2: Advocacy Center where Henry's explaining what happened. He was just eating.
Speaker 2: He was just eating olives, no waffles. He's a child.
Speaker 4: It's breakfast.
Speaker 2: He was eating waffles and just before he heard Ruby yell.
Speaker 2: They ask where Irena was, and he looks down and
Speaker 2: says he doesn't think he should talk about it. And
Speaker 2: he says he went to the living room after he
Speaker 2: heard his sister yell and saw Irena at the top
Speaker 2: of the stairs, and Irena was trying to get Ruby's tights.
Speaker 2: On and Ruby was cranky, and he pauses and keeps
Speaker 2: looking down, and Benson's like, come on, you can tell us.
Speaker 2: And he's said that Irena made her mad face and
Speaker 2: then pushed her down the stairs. Ernest, you pushed me
Speaker 2: down the stairs. Okay, that's just her. Some death becomes
Speaker 2: her stands. Amara was like, I really really want to
Speaker 2: do live shows where we just watch other movies and
Speaker 2: we do Mystery Science three thousand theater. Would you guys come,
Speaker 2: Would you guys come instead of us recapping us to you,
Speaker 2: would you watch us recap movies?
Speaker 1: I don't know, I know what's funny. As I was
Speaker 1: just listening to Bitch sessh. I don't really listen anymore
Speaker 1: because they moved behind a paywall. But they released an
Speaker 1: episode where they talked about how the night before they
Speaker 1: had wanted to just watch a bunch of scenes of
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills, like the dinner party from Hell with the Psychic,
Speaker 1: like all this stuff, and they were four minutes into
Speaker 1: it and they kept getting shut down because they were
Speaker 1: streaming through YouTube, and YouTube could tell that they were
Speaker 1: showing copyrighted content, and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: we wanted to do that originally for our live shows,
Speaker 1: and we like someone was like, that's too too hard
Speaker 1: with copyright stuff, but it would be fun us watching.
Speaker 4: Well, because I used to do that.
Speaker 2: There used to be a show in Chicago Clued Once
Speaker 2: upon a Lifetime, Yeah, and we would like watch those movies.
Speaker 2: I watched the one with Tory Spelling that was a
Speaker 2: cheerleader or a killer dead or she was.
Speaker 1: The murder the one where that's called mother, May I
Speaker 1: Sleep with Danger?
Speaker 4: Is that? But she was a cheerleader in it right.
Speaker 1: Well, there's I don't know, I don't remember, but there's
Speaker 1: one where she has like a boyfriend who's like just
Speaker 1: increasingly becomes like abusive, and the mom is like, something's
Speaker 1: up with him, and she's like, mom, shut up, you
Speaker 1: just won't let me be in love. And like it's
Speaker 1: like the guy is psycho and like tries to kill her.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I can't have you, no one, can
Speaker 2: you know the Yush classic. Amaro's like you sure it
Speaker 2: wasn't an accident and he goes no, because Irena told
Speaker 2: Ruby to shut up and pushed her, and he says,
Speaker 2: saying shut up is not nice, and then he ran
Speaker 2: back to the table and Irena came in and got
Speaker 2: ice and she's like please, and he goes, please, don't
Speaker 2: tell my mom. My dad gets mad every time we
Speaker 2: have to change nanny's and pip Ackox is there, Hello,
Speaker 2: friend of the pod.
Speaker 4: Hi, Pips.
Speaker 2: So Craigan and her are watching the conversation and they
Speaker 2: believe that this is credible. This boy is credible, and
Speaker 2: we need to go get Irena and we don't need
Speaker 2: another bad nanny headline is what Pippa says. We go
Speaker 2: to the residence of Adam Burke, who's also a comedian
Speaker 2: in Chicago that I know, but hopefully not the same.
Speaker 4: And he's holding a fluffy Adam too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he's holding a fluffy little dog and his
Speaker 2: son Toby plays with Henry and then nanny walks him down.
Speaker 2: And then but when they ask about the nanny, he
Speaker 2: goes which one? They go through, so many nannies. And
Speaker 2: at this point little Toby walks into frame to complain
Speaker 2: about his Xbox not working, and the dad asked Toby
Speaker 2: if he knows the nanny's name, and he goes, yeah, Rina,
Speaker 2: she's always texting.
Speaker 4: We hate her, and it's like okay, And then.
Speaker 1: Upstairs you want your nanny to fucking text and not
Speaker 1: bother you, like, let you go do whatever.
Speaker 4: And like just text.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, she is on her phone all
Speaker 2: day and not watching the children. Right. But if you're
Speaker 2: the kid, Oh yes, I thought you meant the parents,
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, she's not texting them.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: If you're like a kid, aren't you just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: my nanny's fucking texting.
Speaker 4: Who cares? I don't know because some well.
Speaker 2: This episode is called born Psychopath, but I maybe set
Speaker 2: for boy, like if the boy, if the kids want
Speaker 2: attention from you, But also some kids are just tattletales
Speaker 2: and love rules, like I think we know a kid
Speaker 2: that would tell I think we know a kid who
Speaker 2: would not be happy if the.
Speaker 4: Race is not necessari sure you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It'd be like I mean I had a kid once, say,
Speaker 2: my mom says you eat too many bananas and you
Speaker 2: don't work hard in that Oh yes, you've told me that, And.
Speaker 4: It's like I'm watching your kids.
Speaker 2: I can't have one of your bananas, your piece of shit,
Speaker 2: they're twenty cents, Like, let me fucking have a banana.
Speaker 2: Your kids sucks? Okay, so.
Speaker 4: Is that merch?
Speaker 2: But I mean, if I've already said the story in
Speaker 2: the pod, who cares No? Like these kids, these two boys,
Speaker 2: they were assigned chores. And I never grew up with chores,
Speaker 2: like I think kids should just be free, so I
Speaker 2: would volunteer.
Speaker 4: I was like, you guys, go play, go have fun.
Speaker 2: I'll put the dishes away, and the older kid would go, no,
Speaker 2: that is my brother's chores. You can't do it, Like
Speaker 2: he would get mad that I was doing their chores,
Speaker 2: you know. Or if I said let's play outside or
Speaker 2: you could do it, they're like, we have to do
Speaker 2: our homework. Like they loved rules. It was weird, and
Speaker 2: they wouldn't share. They would sell toys to each other.
Speaker 2: And once you sold your toy or your sibling, you
Speaker 2: couldn't play with it anymore. These were fucked up. This
Speaker 2: was as that's a capitalist society, that's a capitalist household.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and they're like you had burn it.
Speaker 2: This kid begged for a guitar, got a guitar, and
Speaker 2: then when he would get in trouble, they would take
Speaker 2: the guitar away from him, and it's like that's stupid,
Speaker 2: Like that's an art you have to practice, like you
Speaker 2: need to teach a kid how to practice the guitar,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, you don't take it away from I
Speaker 2: just hated them. And at the end, the boys said,
Speaker 2: you're the worst babysitter we've ever had at the end
Speaker 2: of the school year, and I said, you're the worst
Speaker 2: kids I've ever baby sat. And he was taken aback
Speaker 2: and I go, yeah, I did not enjoy you guys
Speaker 2: at all. You said, bye, school's done, have fun with
Speaker 2: your fucked up parents in this fucked up apartment. And
Speaker 2: like they wouldn't even want to play outside. They'd be like,
Speaker 2: we're dehydrated. I'm like, you're disgusting. You're the future play outside?
Speaker 2: And how old are those kids now? Probably like eighteen, Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're definitely probably grown.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wonder where they are.
Speaker 1: Like I babysat kids in New York that are like
Speaker 1: fully in college now, Like it's crazy.
Speaker 2: I mean there's a couple kids where I really loved
Speaker 2: them and I wish I knew where they were. But
Speaker 2: these kids, I'm like, you're you're probably I can't.
Speaker 4: There are probably kids.
Speaker 2: Who are who don't believe in free lunch at school,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, why should my family have
Speaker 2: to pay for your bad lifestyle.
Speaker 4: I can't, but you can always tell.
Speaker 1: Like I rarely had a kid that was shitty, and
Speaker 1: I was like your parents rule. You know, like if
Speaker 1: I had a kid that was like had a behavior problem,
Speaker 1: it's because like their mom or their dad was like
Speaker 1: oozing like neuroses and was like so high strung or
Speaker 1: like something was up with the parents. You know, like
Speaker 1: I could always in my in my experience, absolutely you
Speaker 1: could tell.
Speaker 2: No, it is really wild to be in people's homes
Speaker 2: and they're just trusting you, and it's like you don't
Speaker 2: even know me.
Speaker 4: It's wild.
Speaker 2: I'm with your five year old or fore month, like
Speaker 2: what because I I ah, whatever.
Speaker 4: So I know.
Speaker 1: I met I baby stuff for this little girl who
Speaker 1: I loved so much, and her family was great, her
Speaker 1: parents were great. But I met them at a Starbucks
Speaker 1: and they were just like they just like let me
Speaker 1: pick up the baby. She was like nine months old,
Speaker 1: and they were just like, yeah, we can just tell
Speaker 1: the way you are with her like that you're good.
Speaker 1: So when can you start? And we were like okay.
Speaker 1: I was like okay, let's go. They found me on craigslist,
Speaker 1: like I got laid off of a job, and I
Speaker 1: just put myself on Craigslist and said, I'm a fucking
Speaker 1: summer camp counselor with a with CPR training and I'm
Speaker 1: one of six kids, and like come get me or whatever.
Speaker 4: And that's how I found them.
Speaker 1: And I met them at a Starbucks, picked up their
Speaker 1: baby and they were like, this is it, Kara.
Speaker 2: Did you hear about the case I think in the
Speaker 2: UK where a nurse was killing babies.
Speaker 1: My my Jared just told me about that. I haven't
Speaker 1: looked into it, but he said, like, glorify it's the
Speaker 1: nurse of death, but for killing babies.
Speaker 4: Like a neonatal nurse. What why? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean when when it was Jane Jane Krakowski doing it,
Speaker 1: we knew it was because her mother, uh you know,
Speaker 1: was never there for her.
Speaker 2: But yes, but when we like when it's older, yeah,
Speaker 2: when it's just not that humans are worth less than babies,
Speaker 2: like we're all important, but the baby thing makes it sicker.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Like, I you know, we covered a case
Speaker 2: where it was a VFW hospital, which is upsetting of course,
Speaker 2: but you're murdering babies and just thinking about these parents,
Speaker 2: it's just it's really upsetting.
Speaker 1: Horrible, Oh my god, do you know what I googled
Speaker 1: last night just because I was I was watching this
Speaker 1: episode and I was thinking of nanny's and like, kids,
Speaker 1: do you remember were you in New York in twenty twelve? No,
Speaker 1: that was way before your time, right, a few years before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this nanny killed these two kids like five blocks from
Speaker 1: where I lived, like on the Upper West Side. I
Speaker 1: remember talking to Michelle Collins about it. We were like
Speaker 1: beside ourselves, like it like shook the city because it
Speaker 1: was like this nanny just went fucking crazy and killed
Speaker 1: like a two year old and a six year old
Speaker 1: that she took care of. And the mom just came
Speaker 1: home and found with the third kid and found her
Speaker 1: two kids, like killed by the nanny. I mean, the
Speaker 1: woman is in life in life, in prison. But she
Speaker 1: tried to say that she heard voices and was having
Speaker 1: like a psychotic break, and then other psychiatrists were on
Speaker 1: the stand saying no, she didn't, like she was upset
Speaker 1: about her workload and her work schedule, very much like Arena,
Speaker 1: and she like went off. But it's just ugh, it's
Speaker 1: like the most horrible Well I get I don't know
Speaker 1: where this is. But while I was talking about this
Speaker 1: baby murder case. There was also like a woman who
Speaker 1: kept asking for a sea section and they wouldn't give
Speaker 1: it to her, and they decapitated her baby, and they
Speaker 1: wouldn't like them for four days. For four days, this
Speaker 1: couple didn't know their baby died. The doctors killed decapitated
Speaker 1: their child and did not tell the parents for four days.
Speaker 4: Oh what the fuck?
Speaker 2: So horrible, And I bet all these doctors nothing will
Speaker 2: happen to them, all these nothing will happen to them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they showed them the baby in a way
Speaker 1: that like didn't show that the baby was to get
Speaker 1: Like I think they like showed them the baby to
Speaker 1: be like okay, here's the baby. It's it didn't make it,
Speaker 1: but like didn't show them that the baby was like decapitated,
Speaker 1: like horrible, and she.
Speaker 2: Was begging for a sea they wouldn't give it to her.
Speaker 2: You killed their fucking baby. Like I just this is
Speaker 2: this episode's hard enough. And I don't know why I
Speaker 2: keep bringing up all these baby murderers, but like, oh fuck,
Speaker 2: fuck these doctors, and I wanna I want to keep
Speaker 2: close tabs on that case to find out what happens,
Speaker 2: because I these doctors are so protected.
Speaker 4: They're so protected.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've covered the cases about the molestation and the
Speaker 2: boards and that they just it's really upsetting. Listen, we
Speaker 2: got to get back to this episode. I'm so sorry
Speaker 2: all these dead baby aside. We're doing a lot of asides.
Speaker 2: We are, but we haven't seen each other in a
Speaker 2: really long time, so it's kind of we're.
Speaker 1: Just gonna get a jump on one this week, guys.
Speaker 1: Sorry about it up.
Speaker 2: Sarahs Benson is going through Ruby's room and finds the
Speaker 2: milk tights drying, and the mom is like, fuck, this
Speaker 2: is a nightmare. She had references in everything, and it's like,
Speaker 2: is anyone using references or are you all giving your
Speaker 2: best friend's phone number. I've never used a real reference,
Speaker 2: and my goddamn luck.
Speaker 1: Literally two minutes ago, when we took a minute break
Speaker 1: on this podcast, I texted a girl I've never met
Speaker 1: and said, are you free Saturday to watch my kids?
Speaker 1: Because because I got her from a trusted babysitter, she's
Speaker 1: a friend of her.
Speaker 4: So I'm like, where are you going on Saturday? I
Speaker 4: don't know.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get a babysitter and do something.
Speaker 2: Let's do something, So did you, so, Benson asked if
Speaker 2: she knew any of the references, and I thought about
Speaker 2: you immediately, She goes, nope, I found it on the
Speaker 2: mom groups on the internet.
Speaker 4: I thought about myself immediately.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And Benson's like, okay, well, can we get
Speaker 2: a hold of these people. So now we have the
Speaker 2: Dad and he's talking upstairs with Themorrow and he's going
Speaker 2: through a different room in the house, buzz buzz, and
Speaker 2: Daddy goes to answer the cell phone and Tomorrow sees
Speaker 2: something that catches his eye and it's a little babylock
Speaker 2: and then a brown box covered with rubber bands, and
Speaker 2: inside of it is a little bad boy kit, you know,
Speaker 2: a box of matches, but the red part and the
Speaker 2: stick part are separated, and the red part's in a
Speaker 2: separate altoid looking box. This is not good, I guess
Speaker 2: separating match pieces is a red flag. And Irena is
Speaker 2: in a cell bar cement room and she is stressed
Speaker 2: out and Finn is going at her while Roland's paces
Speaker 2: behind her and she's gripping her hair like what the fuck,
Speaker 2: and she's denying all of it, and she's saying and
Speaker 2: like I was in the laundry room.
Speaker 4: They go.
Speaker 2: Henry said that he saw you push Ruby down the stairs,
Speaker 2: and she goes. He said that to you, he is
Speaker 2: a mean little boy. Ruby calls him the monster ding
Speaker 2: ding ding ding. Okay, so now the monster thing is
Speaker 2: coming back, and Ruby's playing a keyboard right above the stairs,
Speaker 2: and this house looks so dangerous. So it's like glass
Speaker 2: banister vibe and this house is not kidproof at all.
Speaker 2: A picture just was circulating about Carol of Carol Radzivill's
Speaker 2: apartment in New York. That was just stairs coming out
Speaker 2: of the wall with no banister at all, and that
Speaker 2: was like Carol was wild for this one.
Speaker 4: It was reminding me so great wild.
Speaker 2: I want to be fully protected on any stairs. I
Speaker 2: want full protection walls. I want to be caved in.
Speaker 2: I want it soft, like I make it a nine
Speaker 2: closed slide that I can just go down.
Speaker 4: Like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't need fashion stairs. I don't need highly
Speaker 2: architectured stairs. I don't need glass.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 2: It's really bonkers to me, especially with kids. But Henry's
Speaker 2: watching her play the keyboard and he's playing video game,
Speaker 2: like a handheld video game thing, and the mom is
Speaker 2: which I'm thing of getting I want to get a twitch,
Speaker 2: a switch. I want to get a switch. I heard
Speaker 2: you can play, you know, like Mario on the plane.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: The mom is downstairs looking up, telling them it's almost bedtime,
Speaker 2: and Amaro walks in to join the mom and Benson
Speaker 2: and asks what games Henry and Ruby play together?
Speaker 4: Like Monster?
Speaker 2: And the mom goes, oh, yeah, sometimes, and then he
Speaker 2: pushes does he resent his little sister? And she's like, oh,
Speaker 2: big time. Even the school said something. But she asked
Speaker 2: if Henry did this and he said no, and he
Speaker 2: cried and he blamed, and Benson goes, but isn't your
Speaker 2: son a liar like all of the other injuries. He
Speaker 2: was home, wasn't he? And she's breathing more rushed and
Speaker 2: starts blabbering about the finger in the door incident, and
Speaker 2: Henry was in his room smiling, just like he was
Speaker 2: at the kitchen table. So Benson slowly goes, is it
Speaker 2: possible that Henry pushed her down the stairs? And the
Speaker 2: mom goes, oh god, I mean even if he did,
Speaker 2: he didn't mean to. He's just having a hard time,
Speaker 2: you know, like he doesn't remember that he can actually
Speaker 2: hurt people. And they look up and he's staring at
Speaker 2: them through the glass, looking like psycho as fucking hell, and.
Speaker 4: It is funny.
Speaker 2: It reminds me of Bart Simpson in the episode with
Speaker 2: the pool. I don't remember what it's called, but it is.
Speaker 2: I think it's the season premiere of season six. Okay,
Speaker 2: so now we gotta but I don't but I don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know. I'm not sure, but
Speaker 2: there's like a weird pool whatever.
Speaker 4: Bart looks creepy.
Speaker 2: So now we got to talk to him with a
Speaker 2: pair of present and he's a great little actor.
Speaker 4: He looks crazed as.
Speaker 2: Hell, but not answering Tomorrow and the mom is like,
Speaker 2: just tell him what happened with Ruby, and he's like,
Speaker 2: you think I'm a liar? And Tomorrow looks stunned and
Speaker 2: sighs and goes, well, maybe you were scared you'd get
Speaker 2: in trouble, but we know that you lied, and Henry
Speaker 2: clocks the camera goes, oh, you're recording this, and they
Speaker 2: go yeah, for sure, so you don't have to answer
Speaker 2: the same questions again and again. And he says that
Speaker 2: she stopped crying and it didn't hurt her, So what's
Speaker 2: the big deal.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I pushed her down the stairs.
Speaker 2: Shees fine, and his reasoning is she stopped crying when
Speaker 2: Irena came over, so it must have not hurt that much.
Speaker 2: And then we hear little Ruby's voice said, Henry spilled
Speaker 2: my milk and blamed me, and over his sociopath face.
Speaker 2: We follow the voice to a more cozy room where
Speaker 2: Benson is with Rollins and the dad, and she continues
Speaker 2: that Irena sent her upstairs to change her tights. When
Speaker 2: she came back, he was hiding and popped out, screamed
Speaker 2: boo really.
Speaker 4: Loud, and then pushed her.
Speaker 2: And the dad is like, well, maybe he was just
Speaker 2: playing monster, and Ruby's like, no, motherfucker, because this time
Speaker 2: he had his arm out. It was like in her face,
Speaker 2: so he like pushed her using her face. And it
Speaker 2: cuts to Henry and he's like, whatever, it wasn't that hard.
Speaker 2: It was just the jostle. And it's like, what child
Speaker 2: knows the word jostle. I'm just a jostel, Like, that's
Speaker 2: not a chill word. Amaro's like, why did you jostle
Speaker 2: at her? Because you were mad at Ruby? He goes, no,
Speaker 2: I just don't like her. In fact, I hate her,
Speaker 2: and the mom is like, Henry, don't say that, and
Speaker 2: he's like, what you want me to lie?
Speaker 4: And he says, I wasn't mad.
Speaker 2: It was an experiment and wanted to see if she
Speaker 2: would roll all the way down or stop, and she did.
Speaker 2: She rolled most of the way head over legs on
Speaker 2: an angle, so she hit the landing and stopped, and
Speaker 2: Tomorrow and the mom make eye contact like and Benson
Speaker 2: asked Ruby if he's hurt her before, and that is
Speaker 2: a yes. Ruby then wants to stop the conversation because
Speaker 2: she doesn't want him to be in trouble. So she
Speaker 2: really loves her brother and that is cute, but he
Speaker 2: is crazy.
Speaker 4: She also has a red.
Speaker 2: Little plastic bow headband that I am jealous of. And
Speaker 2: then the giraffe behind her in this giant like state
Speaker 2: funded room. It's like the from Fao Schwartz. How did
Speaker 2: the department afford that? Was it a toy drive? That
Speaker 2: is an expensive giraffe? I know that giraffe, Benson, I
Speaker 2: makeup also looks incredible. So Ruby and Tomorrow go to
Speaker 2: play with puzzles and Benson and the dad turned to
Speaker 2: talk and he says the school guidance counselor told the
Speaker 2: parents to leave the kids alone and let them handle
Speaker 2: it on their own and not intervene, because that means
Speaker 2: they would be rewarding Henry with attention for being bad. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess keep letting him beat the shit out of
Speaker 2: your fucking daughter. Benson explains, your kid is full of rage.
Speaker 2: So the dad says, I was full of rage as well,
Speaker 2: but then I got into trains and I was fine,
Speaker 2: and Henry just needs to find his thing. And it's
Speaker 2: like he did find his thing, and it's hurting your daughter.
Speaker 2: So we head to the school hopefully to try and
Speaker 2: you know, fire this guidance counselor who gave the advice
Speaker 2: to ignore it. She's a redhead with glasses with a
Speaker 2: patterned collar shirt and a vest, and she's like, like,
Speaker 2: she looks like she loves a renaissance fair, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. So she's like, oh, Henry definitely has issues.
Speaker 2: But she goes, it's not really straight cut, it's not OCD,
Speaker 2: it's not oppositional defiant disorder, it's not add and Rollins goes,
Speaker 2: are you a psychologist?
Speaker 4: She is not.
Speaker 2: She's in school to be one, but she does have
Speaker 2: a master's not good enough, and it's a school that's
Speaker 2: open minded, hippie dippy vibes, and Finn and Rollins are
Speaker 2: just not into it. They ask how Henry is doing
Speaker 2: in school, and she thinks some days like we turn
Speaker 2: a corner, but then he'll always just kind of throw
Speaker 2: a desk the next day. But she says that he's
Speaker 2: really smart and he's just testing us. Rollin slowly approaches
Speaker 2: closer and then sits down and leans very in and goes, okay, well,
Speaker 2: have you had him test it, like by a professional?
Speaker 2: And she says that the parents are worried about him
Speaker 2: being labeled he is physically.
Speaker 4: Abusing your daughter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like the Upper west Side Duggert family,
Speaker 2: Like you cannot ignore your son's issues because you're scared
Speaker 2: of for his future when he is physically assaulting your daughter.
Speaker 1: And I wonder if they would think the same if
Speaker 1: it was an older daughter of abusing a younger boy.
Speaker 4: I wonder if it's like gendered a little bit too.
Speaker 1: Like oh, he's just being a boy, you know, like
Speaker 1: let him do his thing.
Speaker 2: They're just fighting like siblings. No, I mean not to
Speaker 2: get to but yes, this is it. We always prioritize
Speaker 2: men's feelings, men's futures, men's career, men's reputation over the
Speaker 2: true safety of children, women girls all the time. Like
Speaker 2: it's really appalling, and this episode does such a great
Speaker 2: job of making me flip out with anger. But the
Speaker 2: school's only until fifth grade, and middle schools are so competitive,
Speaker 2: so they don't want him to be labeled with issues
Speaker 2: and not get into middle school. So they're just gonna
Speaker 2: let him throw their daughter down the stairs so Henry
Speaker 2: can get into a good school. Rollins asks about the
Speaker 2: meds and what meds, and they're like, we've tried all
Speaker 2: the meds.
Speaker 4: We can't find the right convo.
Speaker 2: And Finn asks if he has hurt kids in school,
Speaker 2: and she goes, yeah, of course, but he knows it's unacceptable.
Speaker 2: He is so smart, he's just bored, and they just
Speaker 2: keep finding loopholes for him.
Speaker 4: But he's violent.
Speaker 2: So now we have Pippa, who's always on the wrong
Speaker 2: side of history, no matter how much we love her.
Speaker 2: So she says, if this kid is that bad, there
Speaker 2: would be a paper trail, and there's not a paper trail,
Speaker 2: so there's nothing we can do, and Finn goes, oh,
Speaker 2: trust if he lived in the projects, there would be
Speaker 2: a fucking you know, he'd be in the system by now.
Speaker 1: Also, is the daughter's hospital record not a paper trail?
Speaker 1: Like sh doesn't give a bunch of VR visits, Like
Speaker 1: that's a paper trail.
Speaker 2: Amazing point, Kara, and so Rollins jumps in and she goes, oh,
Speaker 2: he has his guidance counselor snode and they're not testing
Speaker 2: him and just playing around with meds. And Amoro defends
Speaker 2: the parents for not doing anything. He's like, I mean,
Speaker 2: a diagnosis stays on your record, and Benson goes, whatever,
Speaker 2: I mean. Henry needs help, so we need to figure
Speaker 2: out a way to get him help. PIPA's like, okay,
Speaker 2: when you were there, how was it any signs of
Speaker 2: neglect abuse? And they say no, because there's organic food
Speaker 2: and the sun gets attention. So Pipa goes, great, so
Speaker 2: the home is the best place for Henry's not having it.
Speaker 2: She's like, because the home is neat, we should all
Speaker 2: pretend this was an accident. She acts out the straight
Speaker 2: arm move to Pipa and yells Ruby said he straight
Speaker 2: armed her. And she's like, what, we're gonna pick up
Speaker 2: every brig brother that hurts his sister. Yes, how about that?
Speaker 2: How about we finally protect young girls for once in
Speaker 2: their goddamn like history of the world. He's ten, she's five.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you know the We're gonna get three different
Speaker 2: versions of events like it is wild. I think we
Speaker 2: just love the actress so much, and we love Jessica,
Speaker 2: but Pipa does suck.
Speaker 1: Well, she's always on the wrong side. I think Pipa
Speaker 1: grows a little bit like later.
Speaker 4: She's just such.
Speaker 2: She's like a defense attorney working for the state. It's weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, somebody has to go against the squad, right,
Speaker 1: so that's like.
Speaker 2: What her But yeah, isn't it about protecting But I
Speaker 2: just don't understand why it's not about protecting Ruby and
Speaker 2: why it's protecting Henry.
Speaker 4: Oh for sure, for sure. Just in like the.
Speaker 1: Show Realm, I feel like her role is usually to
Speaker 1: be like, well, I don't know about that.
Speaker 2: And then they have to like go against her, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: she's like the beady Wong but opposite. So Daddy Greg
Speaker 2: Craigan walks in to stop the cat fight and he's like, Pipa,
Speaker 2: so we can't charge the kid, And she says I'm
Speaker 2: not going to and if you think a juvenile detention
Speaker 2: facility will help turn things around, And before she can finish,
Speaker 2: fin Ins rupts and is like, okay, they don't want
Speaker 2: him to have a record, but what if we tell
Speaker 2: them that the DA might let this slide if Henry
Speaker 2: sees a shrink And Pippa is down for that, and
Speaker 2: Benson nods as well. So that's what we're gonna do.
Speaker 2: But tomorrow has to run to go to the hockey game.
Speaker 2: He arrives at the home of his son's mother and
Speaker 2: she's like, shut up, you agree to be uncle Nick,
Speaker 2: my brother's friend.
Speaker 4: Deal with it.
Speaker 2: He's like, I know, but I hate lying to him
Speaker 2: and he has a half sister and I want him
Speaker 2: to know her. And she's like, what you want to
Speaker 2: just pop out of nowhere and tell him it's too much?
Speaker 4: And how will he?
Speaker 2: Like? How do we know you're not going to disappear again?
Speaker 2: And he goes, I'm not going anywhere, and then we
Speaker 2: have little Gil run down. He's in a jersey, he's
Speaker 2: so cute. He's like so excited to go to the game.
Speaker 2: Thanks for that storyline. We could care less. And now
Speaker 2: we're back to the Upper West Side, and the dad
Speaker 2: is pissed and is like a psychiatrist, Hell no, he
Speaker 2: doesn't want his kid to turn into a drug addicted robot.
Speaker 2: He'd rather him be a full blown serial killer. And
Speaker 2: then the wife is like, yeah, he gained weight, so
Speaker 2: we just don't want him on any medication. It's like
Speaker 2: your daughter had a broken finger. They're like, he was
Speaker 2: just puffy and blank, so we just don't want to
Speaker 2: do that. And he's like, you don't know him, and
Speaker 2: we do, so you need to leave, and the mom says,
Speaker 2: we have all the books on defiant kids. Benson now
Speaker 2: speaks very slowly and Rollins walks away because she is
Speaker 2: too stressed by these people. And Benson has to slowly
Speaker 2: and exaggeratedly let them know your daughter is not safe.
Speaker 2: They're like, don't worry, we locked up all the knives
Speaker 2: and she he'll never be alone with Ruby again, and
Speaker 2: Benson asks like, how can you be sure, and the
Speaker 2: mom says, she took a leave of absence for work
Speaker 2: and she will be present. Rollins goes, okay, well, I
Speaker 2: don't think the DA is going to let this slide then,
Speaker 2: and they're all like, well, she'll have to because my
Speaker 2: friend's a lawyer and said, if you bring up charges,
Speaker 2: we're going to sue the city for free. And he's
Speaker 2: so smug and Benson goes, you don't understand, and he goes, oh,
Speaker 2: I know, and the mom is like, we will take
Speaker 2: care of him. So the mom enters Henry's room and
Speaker 2: he asks are they gone yet? And she says yes,
Speaker 2: and he says I never want to see the cops
Speaker 2: here again, and she goes, well, that's all up to you, Henry.
Speaker 2: Don't be a little socio and then the cops won't
Speaker 2: be here. Your behavior sucks. Just use your words, and
Speaker 2: he says I'm sorry, mommy, and she's like, I know,
Speaker 2: my little innocent baby.
Speaker 4: Why don't you just go to sleep? He says, I'm
Speaker 4: not tired.
Speaker 2: He is saying he doesn't want to go to bed,
Speaker 2: and classic mom is like, well, you have to go
Speaker 2: to bed. So Henry takes a knife from under his
Speaker 2: pillow and says no, and the mom is stern and says,
Speaker 2: give me back the knife right now, puts her hand out.
Speaker 2: He cuts her hand and she deserves it and I
Speaker 2: don't feel bad for you. So the mom is bleeding
Speaker 2: and she takes the knife and runs off, and Henry's
Speaker 2: face gives no emotions. So she's at the hospital with
Speaker 2: her hand wrap. Benson runs in. The mong goes, it's
Speaker 2: my fault. I reached for the knife. Benson says, how
Speaker 2: did you even get here? This is not a police matter,
Speaker 2: and she's like, well, your neighbor's called really involved neighbors.
Speaker 2: This it's a whole. It looked like a penthouse. I
Speaker 2: don't even know how the neighbors. It was a really
Speaker 2: quiet cut, Like I don't that this is a plot
Speaker 2: hole for me. So she keeps saying she's fine, and
Speaker 2: Henry's upset he did it, and she's still being delusional.
Speaker 2: Rollin's and Daddy and Henry are in the kitchen and
Speaker 2: the dad is not feeling so smug anymore, are you?
Speaker 2: So they ask where he got the knife and he's like, Dad,
Speaker 2: I know where you keep the key, Like duh, I'm
Speaker 2: an evil mastermind. He then plays it like he's the
Speaker 2: victim and nobody listens to him and no one ever
Speaker 2: does what he wants, and Rollin says, I'm listening to you, Henry,
Speaker 2: and Henry goes it was her fault. The dad finally
Speaker 2: flips out on and it's full rage, and he goes,
Speaker 2: you were angry, you wanted to hurt her.
Speaker 4: Stop lying.
Speaker 2: He says no, it was her fault, and the dad
Speaker 2: isn't like in his screaming at the sun.
Speaker 4: He starts yelling back.
Speaker 2: The dad grips him and holds him, and Ruby walks
Speaker 2: in and goes, where's mommy, and Rollins is like, hey,
Speaker 2: while you go tuck your daughter back into bed and
Speaker 2: I'll stay here with your little demon son. And the
Speaker 2: dad is worried, and Rollin's goes, don't worry. I mean
Speaker 2: I am a cop and I do have a gun.
Speaker 2: So she turns to him and asks if he wants
Speaker 2: to talk, and you know, baby Henry, he just wants
Speaker 2: one thing. Can I hold your gun? And she goes,
Speaker 2: do you think that's a good idea? And he says
Speaker 2: I've never held a gun before, and then classic, you're
Speaker 2: really pretty. He stands up, walks to the fridge to
Speaker 2: get strawberries, and Rollins is sickened by this kid, and
Speaker 2: he eats the strawberries really slowly and creepily, and the
Speaker 2: mom is now spilling to Benson, I thought I could
Speaker 2: help him, and if I loved him and hugged him
Speaker 2: enough he would like me, but he's not, and he's
Speaker 2: getting worse and he's so broken and I can't fix him.
Speaker 2: And I tell him I love him, but he never
Speaker 2: says I love you back. And Benson's like, well, we
Speaker 2: can help your family and get Henry evaluated and give
Speaker 2: him treatment options. And the mom says, most days I
Speaker 2: just feel like I'm in combat.
Speaker 4: And it's like you could have admitted this days ago. Yeah.
Speaker 2: She says that he tells her, Mommy, you hate me,
Speaker 2: and she does hate him at times, and she feels
Speaker 2: bad that she hates her own son. And finally we
Speaker 2: get Beadi Wong flew in from Oklahome so Ori a little.
Speaker 4: Bit of a Long Hair. That song is copy written,
Speaker 4: Please don't sing that on the podcast. He's got like
Speaker 4: sort of long hair, doesn't he.
Speaker 2: He reminds me of Old Country for no Old Men,
Speaker 2: that haircut with Javier Gardak.
Speaker 4: What did I say, Old Country for old Men? I
Speaker 4: think something like that good movie, good movie.
Speaker 2: But so yeah, so Beatty Wong's here and he's you know,
Speaker 2: he's walking in to talk to Henry and they're sitting
Speaker 2: at a tiny table.
Speaker 4: They're gonna chat. Wong brings a bin.
Speaker 2: Of action figures, asks who his favorite is, and Henry
Speaker 2: loves all the villains and he loves how they kill everybody.
Speaker 2: And he is a violent killer. But he's also with
Speaker 2: toys and that's kind of wild, you know. So he
Speaker 2: starts like playing with action figures, which mostly looks like
Speaker 2: him banging them together, and Wong is kind of off
Speaker 2: put by it. And then Henry goes, well, now he's dead,
Speaker 2: he can't do anything, and I don't like him anymore.
Speaker 2: And Wong goes from dislike to oh, this boy is
Speaker 2: sick as fuck. And he's now talking to the squad
Speaker 2: and I and he says, I feel conflicted labeling a
Speaker 2: ten year old a psychopath. But he said he's only
Speaker 2: had a chill like that twice in his life, and
Speaker 2: that was with Death Row serial killers, and now with
Speaker 2: this little kid. And he doesn't have any emotions. He
Speaker 2: does not recognize them in other people. He has no empathy,
Speaker 2: and he's very manipulative. And you only see this with
Speaker 2: kids that come from abuse or neglect. But he's just
Speaker 2: wired wrong. So there's a place in Vermont, Okay, care Ah,
Speaker 2: we're gonna be in Vermont soom okay, so that so
Speaker 2: that served. I just can't wait. I want to have
Speaker 2: a maple creamy and I want to take a walk
Speaker 2: on the lake and I can't wait to walk that strip.
Speaker 4: I just love Vermont so oh much. Burlington is the
Speaker 4: bus Church Street. Maybe we're gonna be there, I know.
Speaker 2: I just it made me love maple because now I
Speaker 2: love maple donuts and everything.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, how cute.
Speaker 2: So my parents had their wedding anniversary and I postmated
Speaker 2: them or seamless or whatever, who cares.
Speaker 4: None of them are giving us money.
Speaker 2: I use the food delivery app to send them Molly's cupcakes,
Speaker 2: which are center filled delicious cupcakes, and then not knowing,
Speaker 2: my sister sent them pizza, sushi and coconut shrimp, like
Speaker 2: their favorite things. So I just love that the two
Speaker 2: sisters gave them savory and sweet and like knowing.
Speaker 4: Full yeah, a full Schmorgas board. I love that because
Speaker 4: you know, my dad wasn't gonna do anything romantic.
Speaker 1: So I sent my mom Jenny's ice cream for her birthday, like.
Speaker 4: Six pints, and she texted me and was like they're gone.
Speaker 1: After like a couple of days, they plowed through them.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if I've had Jenny's, but I
Speaker 2: know it's like the sexy, expensive one, so I would
Speaker 2: like to try it. Yeah, I've tried Van Lewin, but
Speaker 2: I've never tried Guess what, there's a Van Lewin moving
Speaker 2: into my hometown. Our little strip of stores on the
Speaker 2: main strip. We used to never have any chains.
Speaker 1: Duncan Donuts was the only chain we had, and now
Speaker 1: in Lewin Baby. But now we have Jay Crue, we
Speaker 1: have Polo, Ralf Lauren, we have tons of chains.
Speaker 2: The whole place has changed now. But a lot that
Speaker 2: you said, Lauren, Oh, Rolf Lauren.
Speaker 4: You really jazzed him up. Is he a Jew? Or
Speaker 4: is Armani a Jew? I forgot one of them is Jewish.
Speaker 2: Though I think Rolf Lauren might be Jewish. I don't
Speaker 2: think Harmani is. Yeah, you're right, yeah, Ralph Lauren, Ralph Lauren.
Speaker 2: Beatie Wong is just telling us that there is a
Speaker 2: place that services kids with this kind of diagnosis, and
Speaker 2: Wang is willing to talk to the parents about the program,
Speaker 2: and if they're against it, he just advises that they
Speaker 2: should get a safe room. So now we have Wangamorrow
Speaker 2: and Benson at this nice sess penthouse apartment and the
Speaker 2: data is annoyed. We already let you talk to him,
Speaker 2: leave us alone, And it's like, he cut your wife
Speaker 2: with a knife. I don't understand this, dad, I really don't.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to understand and I cannot understand.
Speaker 1: But I think that's kind of what they're setting up that, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to get into it in the
Speaker 1: real crime, but like there's kind of there. If there's
Speaker 1: not a abuse factor, then there's usually some kind of
Speaker 1: hereditary factor. And the fact that the dad like readily
Speaker 1: is like, oh yeah, I was filled with rage as
Speaker 1: a kid also, and the mom says it too.
Speaker 4: The mom's like, oh yeah, so was my husband.
Speaker 1: Like they're both rage little raged children, you know, Like
Speaker 1: I think they're setting it up that maybe the husband's
Speaker 1: not a full psychopath, but that his anger problems have
Speaker 1: sort of maybe engendered this in the child.
Speaker 4: But I don't know, you know what I say, lock
Speaker 4: his ass up to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's blaming them for his kid being worse,
Speaker 2: and the mom says, don't blame them, And the dad
Speaker 2: has some humanity and is like, I just don't want
Speaker 2: him to be alone in a cell, thinking we abandon him,
Speaker 2: and the mom is like, he's not afraid of us
Speaker 2: leaving him, Tom, He's not afraid of anything. And Wang
Speaker 2: has to break it down, like he will never grow
Speaker 2: out of this, he will never be cured, and the
Speaker 2: dad put his head in his hands and he's really
Speaker 2: sad and maybe now I have some sadness for him,
Speaker 2: but maybe he can learn to control his behavior, and
Speaker 2: sassy dad comes out again. You mean if he slams
Speaker 2: his sister's finger in the door, he won't get to
Speaker 2: play video games. Yeah, we've tried that, sir again smug,
Speaker 2: So it's like, I, you know, I'm back to hating him.
Speaker 2: But he makes this face that is a perfect acting choice.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you caught it, but he does
Speaker 2: this thing where I just love the way he goes Yeah,
Speaker 2: we've tried that and nods in this really smug, condescending
Speaker 2: way like a little kid.
Speaker 4: I just really enjoyed his acting here.
Speaker 2: And obviously just can't deal with all this, dude, And
Speaker 2: it's like, exactly, dude, none of the things are gonna work.
Speaker 2: You can't be mad when they want to lock him up,
Speaker 2: and also mad when they suggest other options, and we're saying,
Speaker 2: your kid is a monster, so what do you want.
Speaker 2: You should have done something to protect your daughter sooner,
Speaker 2: and Benson says, we're just trying to say that he
Speaker 2: needs more support than what you are able to provide,
Speaker 2: and the mom says, this is our mistake. We thought
Speaker 2: we could handle him and we can't, and we have
Speaker 2: to give this a try. Wong walks into the squad
Speaker 2: before his flight back to Oklahoma with some good news.
Speaker 2: The Vermont Place has a space for him and he
Speaker 2: can start next week, so they walk him out and
Speaker 2: then this gives a little time for Finn and Tomorrow
Speaker 2: to bond about being fathers. Tomorrow's annoyed, Cynthia won't let
Speaker 2: him know but he is the dad, and Finn reassures
Speaker 2: him and says he will have time for that, and
Speaker 2: Tomorrow goes, yeah, really, but well, I Gill doesn't have
Speaker 2: a family, and as bad as Henry has it like,
Speaker 2: he has this amazing family and I didn't have him
Speaker 2: for nine years. That's a lot of time. Do I
Speaker 2: have to wait till he's eighteen? And to me, this
Speaker 2: is a stretch. This isn't about you, and I don't
Speaker 2: think Gil is connected to Henry, and I don't know,
Speaker 2: I just I don't love this. Benson walks in and
Speaker 2: is on the phone and it's fucking Henry and he's
Speaker 2: worried about Ruby because there's a lot of smoke done done.
Speaker 2: The dad is at work, the mom is locked in
Speaker 2: the laundry room, and Benson starts running and we see
Speaker 2: a garbage can with a fire started with papers in it,
Speaker 2: and his little collection of matches. I'm sure we're involved
Speaker 2: in this. And Ruby's in her room right next to
Speaker 2: the fire, breathing in the smoke, and he's standing over
Speaker 2: her and she's coughing and he loves it. The smoke
Speaker 2: alarm is going crazy as he grins. Amaro's with the fireman,
Speaker 2: and then the doorman put it out.
Speaker 4: Is the scoop that we get.
Speaker 2: But the fire was deliberate, and the match heads confirmed that,
Speaker 2: like who did the fire? And then Ruby was tied
Speaker 2: to the fucking bed and the mom was locked in
Speaker 2: a room. Ruby's okay, thank goodness, but nobody can find Henry.
Speaker 4: Where the fuck did he go there?
Speaker 2: He did not leave on any of the cameras, so
Speaker 2: he is in the building, so they have to trap
Speaker 2: him they got to track him down and he's either
Speaker 2: in the playroom of the building or he has one
Speaker 2: friend named Toby so and what fucking sparked all this?
Speaker 2: And they told him about Vermont and he lost it,
Speaker 2: So that's what started it. There was a huge tantrum.
Speaker 2: The dad left for a work emergency. What is a
Speaker 2: bigger emergency than your sociopathic son flipping out about being
Speaker 2: sent away to a prison? Yeah, amtrack that work emergency?
Speaker 2: An Amtrak derailment?
Speaker 4: Delaware? Who cares? So the mom is hysterical.
Speaker 2: Obviously she stays with Ruby and as Benson runs to
Speaker 2: find him, she's like, be careful. Henry just doesn't understand.
Speaker 2: He does, he does understand he's a psychopath. So this
Speaker 2: episode shows the delusion and denial of mothering boys, and
Speaker 2: nobody cares about Ruby here at all. Again, this is
Speaker 2: the problem of egg.
Speaker 1: Do you think this mom is just like posting photos
Speaker 1: of her son setting a fire with like hashtag boy mom.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My thing is I hate when women are blamed for
Speaker 2: the actions of men. But then I do hate boy
Speaker 2: moms that caught all their sons and then make rapists
Speaker 2: out of them, and so like, I just don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't like blaming mothers or any women for men's mistakes,
Speaker 2: but it is like an issue where these moms are
Speaker 2: so obsessed with their sons and they're like, it's the
Speaker 2: evidence is he knows what he's doing. Yeah, you don't
Speaker 2: think he knows. He's been saving these matchheads for a while. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So whatever she is, this girl Ruby has been shoved, slammed, smoked,
Speaker 2: and it's still poor Henry, Poor Henry.
Speaker 4: We have this little child all marks the jamask skullburns.
Speaker 1: We don't even know what those are. This girl has skullburns,
Speaker 1: and we're like, is.
Speaker 4: Henry gonna be okay?
Speaker 2: This is a farce? Like is this a satire? I
Speaker 2: feel like I'm in an alternate universe. Finn and Amanda
Speaker 2: hit up Toby's place and the dad answers the door
Speaker 2: and he's like, what the fuck they're in Toby's room?
Speaker 2: Who cares? And so Rollins runs and the dad goes
Speaker 2: chill out. They're telling if there's no screaming, they're fine.
Speaker 2: So Finn is like, did you not hear the sirens?
Speaker 2: He goes, yeah, the doorman said everything was under control.
Speaker 2: Amanda enters Toby's room.
Speaker 4: Guess what.
Speaker 2: Nobody's there. We hear him in the closet. He is crying.
Speaker 2: He's tied up with a pillow case on his head
Speaker 2: like it's Abu grabe.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: So he's doing historical torture in the closet of this
Speaker 2: child's room. And the boy goes, he was hurting snowball,
Speaker 2: and so then they go and fuck they Snowball is
Speaker 2: drowned in the tub. We do not see it, but
Speaker 2: we see the leash. You see the leash tied to
Speaker 2: the faucet. The tub is overflowing, and fing goes, don't
Speaker 2: go in there. So Toby says that Henry threatened to
Speaker 2: shoot him with his dad's gun, and he goes, no,
Speaker 2: it's locked in my study in the safe. But Toby
Speaker 2: knows the condo, the combo. Toby knows the combo. He says,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. The dad hugs him. So they go to
Speaker 2: the building play place in this room. I used to
Speaker 2: spend a lot of babysitting days in the commutroom at
Speaker 2: the luxury building.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And he's holding a kid hostage in a tunnel tube
Speaker 2: toy and he's holding the kid with the fucking gun
Speaker 2: Amaro asks for thank god he didn't hurt Toby honestly.
Speaker 2: Tomorrow asks for the gun and it's like, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: Henry's not going to give you a gun. Bentson walks
Speaker 2: in from behind with the gun and I don't think
Speaker 2: Henry knows. I'm not really sure what's going down. His
Speaker 2: name is Sam, the little boy. He has developmental delays,
Speaker 2: Henry says, and I look. The mom's like he doesn't
Speaker 2: know what he's doing. But he's like, this kid has
Speaker 2: developmental distinct delays. I think a kid who won't really
Speaker 2: like yeah, yell that much.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And Tomorrow goes, why don't you just let him go
Speaker 2: and the big boys can chat. That does not work,
Speaker 2: and he's just trying to let him, like, make him
Speaker 2: let go of Sam.
Speaker 4: And they come out of the tunnel.
Speaker 2: There's a tunnel play place and Tomorrow snatches up Sam
Speaker 2: runs him to Benson. Henry points the gun at them
Speaker 2: and says, you stay. She goes and he's like, is
Speaker 2: my mom and dad mad at me? And Omarro says,
Speaker 2: they're upset, but we don't even know that because the
Speaker 2: dad had a work emergency, So you know, your kid's
Speaker 2: just setting fires to an apartment building and holding the
Speaker 2: past stitch with a gun.
Speaker 4: But what happened on the amtrak?
Speaker 2: So then Henry is like, I mean I called nine
Speaker 2: one one when the smoke got bad, and Tomorrow goes
Speaker 2: and that was a good job, you little psycho. And
Speaker 2: he wants Tomorrow's gone and starts screaming, you promise, you promise,
Speaker 2: give me the gun.
Speaker 4: And It's like, you.
Speaker 2: Already have a gun, why do you need another gun? Yeah,
Speaker 2: So they go back and forth. Amorrow is scared and
Speaker 2: Henry's like, I wonder what would happen if I shot
Speaker 2: you out of blood? Would your brains come out of
Speaker 2: your forehead? And Amorro says, fine, here, I'll show you
Speaker 2: my gun now. He empties the clip and then asks
Speaker 2: for Henry's gun, but instead he shoots Tomorrow. But remember
Speaker 2: the bullet proof vest from the cold open. He's pretty,
Speaker 2: so he pounces hold Henry down. He yells I'll kill him,
Speaker 2: I'll kill him, I'll kill him, and Henry has no
Speaker 2: emotion on his face.
Speaker 4: Should have picked Vermont, idiot.
Speaker 2: So anyways, Amorrow is shirtless and wounded at the hospital
Speaker 2: with Benson standing with him, happy he's alive.
Speaker 4: The vest is king.
Speaker 2: Benson is mad that the little gun Hot Potato game
Speaker 2: that they played, swapping the guns, and Tomorrow just goes,
Speaker 2: I wasn't about to shoot a fucking ten year old,
Speaker 2: okay if he's white, Okay.
Speaker 4: So Gil and.
Speaker 2: Cynthia run in and they're worried about him, and they're happy,
Speaker 2: and he intros them to Benson. It's all very sweet,
Speaker 2: and so Benson leaves to give them a moment, and
Speaker 2: Cynthia decides, honestly, Gil and you should have a Manda
Speaker 2: man talk, and so Benson and Cynthia go out for
Speaker 2: a cup of coffee. Gil and Tomorrow smile at each other.
Speaker 2: Now we're back to the parents of the Year watching
Speaker 2: through the glasses. Rollins talks to their evil son. He
Speaker 2: says he never even likes Snowball. He confesses to everything
Speaker 2: to tying Snowball, holding her down, putting Toby in a
Speaker 2: closet after he peede himself that he tied his sister
Speaker 2: to the bed to see if she'd melt from the
Speaker 2: inside out, but because of the smoke, he couldn't see.
Speaker 2: And Rollins is like, so's that one you called Benson,
Speaker 2: And he goes, yeah, and this is all her fault.
Speaker 2: She's the one that wanted to send me away. And
Speaker 2: the mom can't even listen to this anymore. And the
Speaker 2: dad goes, well, what happens now? And Benson and Pipa
Speaker 2: are there with Cragan and they break it down, like
Speaker 2: he tried to kill his sister and he shot a cop.
Speaker 2: He's not going home, and the mom is still like,
Speaker 2: but he's only ten years old. I can't, I can't,
Speaker 2: I can't. Pimpa explains he will be charged with juvenile
Speaker 2: delinquency and he will be sentenced to juvenile facility that
Speaker 2: will be secure as hell. The mom is like, wait,
Speaker 2: so he's gonna be locked away? And I mean, honestly,
Speaker 2: they need to take Ruby out of the home too.
Speaker 2: These are unfit parents and they should not have any children.
Speaker 2: They should have been on the child free train and
Speaker 2: I hate them. He tried to kill your daughter. Yes,
Speaker 2: he's going to be locked away, and Benson goes until
Speaker 2: he's eighteen, which honestly doesn't seem long enough. The parents cry,
Speaker 2: she wants to be the one to tell him this info,
Speaker 2: and they let him know, and you know, he puts
Speaker 2: on a baby innocent vibe, like I don't want to
Speaker 2: be there, and he's turning the blame on her and
Speaker 2: you said yes, and they're like, you shot a cop.
Speaker 2: And he then pleads with his dad, please don't let
Speaker 2: them take me away, and he hugs him and they
Speaker 2: all cry, and the dad says, I love you, and
Speaker 2: he cries and says I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I love you,
Speaker 2: and lets.
Speaker 4: His dad hug him.
Speaker 2: And then as the dad is cradling him, we see
Speaker 2: the other side of the hug and it's Henry who
Speaker 2: is not sorry at all. He just looks ahead with
Speaker 2: his dead, evil eyes, no tears, And that's Dick Wolf baby.
Speaker 4: Oof chilling, chilling, Oh boy, chilling, it's not chilling.
Speaker 2: Is We are on tour, so please don't forget before
Speaker 2: these commercial breaks to check out the link on our
Speaker 2: Instagram and see if we're coming to a city near you.
Speaker 1: And that's messed up Live Baby has all the that's
Speaker 1: messed uplive dot com has all the tickets, all the venues.
Speaker 4: Come see us. We're excited to see you.
Speaker 1: While we're coming to some cities we've never been to before,
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Burlington.
Speaker 4: And then we're most nervous for Boston. We are at
Speaker 4: the Wilburg.
Speaker 2: It is an iconic, giant venue, and we need you
Speaker 2: to bring your cousins. Yeah, bring like anybody honestly from Southee,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, bring Mark Wahlberg and then say, how
Speaker 2: do your mother for me?
Speaker 1: All right, we'll be right back. We're going to get
Speaker 1: into the true crime. Okay, we're back. So yeah, obviously
Speaker 1: true crime is a weird It's like it's like a
Speaker 1: true story kind of like this case is loosely based
Speaker 1: on the Beth Thomas case, which is not really even
Speaker 1: a case. It's In nineteen ninety a producer named Gabby
Speaker 1: Monet made a short documentary piece called Child of Rage,
Speaker 1: A Story of Abuse, which is the story of Beth Thomas.
Speaker 4: It was on HBO.
Speaker 1: It was part of the America Undercover series that they
Speaker 1: did at the time. So in this it's like a
Speaker 1: thirty minute doc right. So in this piece, a therapist
Speaker 1: named Ken Maggott interviews Beth, who at the time is
Speaker 1: six and a half years old.
Speaker 4: It is so sad and dark.
Speaker 1: It will be linked in our sources if you feel
Speaker 1: like watching it. But I did watch it for you
Speaker 1: to tell you about it, because but it was very
Speaker 1: sad and I watched it until the wee hours of
Speaker 1: the morning last night. So he starts off talking about
Speaker 1: she's really sweet and cute. She's got a little Southern accent,
Speaker 1: big eyes, She's very articulate, and like talks pretty clearly,
Speaker 1: and she tells the truth really like I mean, she
Speaker 1: doesn't really go I don't know, like she kind of
Speaker 1: answers most of his questions like pretty straightforward. And so
Speaker 1: Maggod asks her, are people afraid of you? And she says, yes,
Speaker 1: my brother's afraid of me because I hurt him so much.
Speaker 1: She explains how her parents lock her in her room
Speaker 1: at night so that she won't hurt John, her brother,
Speaker 1: or her parents. But if given the chance, she said,
Speaker 1: she would hurt her family at night when they can't
Speaker 1: see me, she says, and she would stab them with
Speaker 1: a knife. She's pretty unaffected when she talks. And then
Speaker 1: there's a crawl like at the beginning of the movie,
Speaker 1: after this little interview that explains that doctor Maggid works
Speaker 1: with kids who are so traumatized in early life that
Speaker 1: they can't bond with other people, They cannot love or
Speaker 1: accept love, They are without conscience, they can hurt or kill,
Speaker 1: even kill without remorse, and the film shows that victims
Speaker 1: can be helped, So stay with me. She admits to
Speaker 1: sticking pins in her brother and says she was trying
Speaker 1: to kill him because she was hurt so badly she
Speaker 1: doesn't want to be around people. She also wants to
Speaker 1: stick pins in mommy and daddy and have them die.
Speaker 4: So that's how this opens up. Then we go back.
Speaker 2: She doesn't seem like a liar, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: at least right being upfront, She's like, yeah, I want
Speaker 2: to kill everybody, and I'll put a needle in your eye.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. She's not being like, no, it was an accident.
Speaker 4: I was holding the pin and we were wrestling. Like.
Speaker 1: She's just like, yeah, I don't want people to be
Speaker 1: around me because I was hurt and ill, and I
Speaker 1: want to kill people.
Speaker 4: Beth's father then.
Speaker 2: She is caring, so she does know she wants to
Speaker 2: kill him, but she seems like she knows it's wrong
Speaker 2: or something like, I'm so curious.
Speaker 4: It's hard to say. It's hard to say. It's hard
Speaker 4: to say whether she knows it's wrong or not.
Speaker 1: But she knows that she was hurt and that that's
Speaker 1: what Maybe she's also speaking because she's had therapy before.
Speaker 1: Maybe she's like speaking regurgitating things people have told her.
Speaker 1: But essentially what happened was Beth's father she was adopted.
Speaker 1: So Beth's father, Tim was a minister of a small
Speaker 1: Methodist church in the South. Him and his wife Julie
Speaker 1: were married for twelve years unable to have their own children,
Speaker 1: so they look to adopt. So in February of nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty four, they get this call that two kids are
Speaker 1: available for adoption, siblings Beth who was nineteen months old
Speaker 1: and Jonathan, who was seven months old, And they were
Speaker 1: told these kids are normal and healthy.
Speaker 4: They thought, that.
Speaker 2: Seems like a dream, like to be able to adopt
Speaker 2: like children that young siblings together. I mean that like
Speaker 2: totally for someone that wants to adopt, that seems like
Speaker 2: such a kind of perfect Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And they said too, they were like, we thought it
Speaker 1: was a miracle, like we had out all these friends
Speaker 1: that had been on waiting lists for years and years,
Speaker 1: and here we were getting two kids, like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: And then the narrator goes their dream became a nightmare
Speaker 1: when they realized that Beth and Jonathan had severe emotional problems.
Speaker 1: The narrator is very datelining in this. They started to
Speaker 1: learn more and more about the kid's background. So the
Speaker 1: mother died when Beth was one and little Jonathan was
Speaker 1: just a new baby. Weirdly, there's some articles I read
Speaker 1: that said Beth thought that Jonathan, that the mother died
Speaker 1: in childbirth of Jonathan, and that's another reason why she
Speaker 1: resented him so badly, because he you know, But I
Speaker 1: was not able to find that in other places.
Speaker 4: So the mother passed away.
Speaker 1: I don't know how the father kept them, the biological father,
Speaker 1: and he was not a good person. He did not
Speaker 1: feed them properly, did not take care of them, and
Speaker 1: he severely physically and sexually abused Beth. And she was
Speaker 1: like a baby. So this is horrific.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if yeah, like I'm watching Ronie,
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've gotten to this part yet.
Speaker 4: But this is how Brynn was raised.
Speaker 2: Like she said she would be in a dirty diaper
Speaker 2: all day, no one fed her, she'd be left alone
Speaker 2: for days, and that.
Speaker 4: She was saved by her grandmother.
Speaker 2: But I mean, I knew that being like this young,
Speaker 2: that being touch like all these things matter, like having
Speaker 2: a baby with love really affects you, but it is
Speaker 2: also shocking that you can have this much damage done
Speaker 2: before you're even one, that your body remembers neglect in
Speaker 2: your brain.
Speaker 4: It just seems like, oh, I can figure this out.
Speaker 2: I have years of reprogramming, and it's like no, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm so curious to learn more about this. And well,
Speaker 2: not being held or being treated well as a baby
Speaker 2: can just fuck you forever.
Speaker 4: Yeah, scary, scary.
Speaker 1: So they said so basically like the father is telling like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess little Jonathan was in a diaper all day,
Speaker 1: like you're in all over his crib bottles with curdled
Speaker 1: milk in.
Speaker 4: The crib, like it was not a good situation. So
Speaker 4: they were.
Speaker 1: They were taken away from him obviously. But Beth has
Speaker 1: a recurring nightmare. She says about a man falling on
Speaker 1: her and hurting him, hurting her with a.
Speaker 4: Part of himself.
Speaker 1: So it's all very it's all there, and in the
Speaker 1: document in the documentary, they just ask this little six
Speaker 1: and a half year old about her birth father and
Speaker 1: she goes, yeah, he touched my vagina. Like she just
Speaker 1: is outwardly saying like using anatomically correct terms, like this
Speaker 1: is what happened. She said he wouldn't feed me, he
Speaker 1: wasn't nice to me. And THENY go, how old were
Speaker 1: you and she said I was one? And I'm like, normally,
Speaker 1: I didn't think you could remember things from that age. Like,
Speaker 1: my daughter's very articulate, but like if I ask her
Speaker 1: about something that happened when she was one, she doesn't remember,
Speaker 1: you know, and she's four. But I think maybe if
Speaker 1: it's a huge trauma, it's something that sticks in more.
Speaker 4: But I didn't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm sure we have listeners that like know more about
Speaker 1: child psychology and like when you start forming memories. But
Speaker 1: she has this nightmare where her dad hurts her. She
Speaker 1: draws a picture for the therapist of her dad hurting her.
Speaker 1: The documentary says that because of these early traumas, she
Speaker 1: never developed a conscience, and she never learned to love
Speaker 1: or trust anyone, and she also exhibited inappropriate sexual behavior,
Speaker 1: especially towards her brother. She admits in the interview to hitting, pinching,
Speaker 1: and squeezing her brother's genitals. Her adopted mother caught her
Speaker 1: molesting the brother, she says, and she said that Beth
Speaker 1: used to masturbate at inappropriate times and every single day,
Speaker 1: like all the time. She was like doing it constantly,
Speaker 1: like in parking lots like wherever. And her mother said
Speaker 1: she tried to tell her, like this is private, like
Speaker 1: you can you know, do this like in your bedroom,
Speaker 1: and she was unfazed and didn't like, had no emotion
Speaker 1: about it. So Beth also describes in this interview harming animals.
Speaker 1: She says she stuck some animals with pins, like dogs
Speaker 1: and cats and stuff, but she also killed a few
Speaker 1: baby birds that they had found in a nest. The
Speaker 1: mom came out and found that they were dead, and
Speaker 1: Beth like describes later how she squeezed them till they
Speaker 1: died basically or broke their necks. The parents were miserable,
Speaker 1: understande ley I guess, they said, like the little boy
Speaker 1: would cry every morning with a hurt stomach, and they
Speaker 1: thought maybe he had gastro intestinal issues, but really Beth
Speaker 1: was coming into his room and punching him in the stomach,
Speaker 1: much like the characters in this episode. And the mom
Speaker 1: started to notice small knives going missing in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: And then Beth is describing to her therapist how she
Speaker 1: took the knives and how she wanted to kill her
Speaker 1: family with them, and the mom is like telling a
Speaker 1: story too about how Beth would be like, what do
Speaker 1: those knives look like that are missing? Are they like
Speaker 1: the little ones with the green Like she was like
Speaker 1: almost saying it with a smile, because the mom was like,
Speaker 1: I know you have them, like I know you have
Speaker 1: these knives, because the daughter was like, you know, being
Speaker 1: a little bit manipulative about it. So at that point
Speaker 1: as well, she had tried to kill the little brother
Speaker 1: a few times, like she smashed his head against the
Speaker 1: cement concrete, and when she talks about it, she goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just couldn't stop, Like I couldn't do it. I
Speaker 1: was just hitting his head against the floor and it
Speaker 1: was made out of cement, and I couldn't stop. And
Speaker 1: the mom obviously broke it up before she could kill
Speaker 1: him or do horrible damage. But doctor Maggid suggests that
Speaker 1: Beth be separated from the family temporarily, so she is
Speaker 1: brought to a treatment facility with an expert on early
Speaker 1: attachment disorder or reactive attachment disorder is what they say
Speaker 1: in this documentary that she has, and she goes to
Speaker 1: work with a woman who's featured in the documentary named
Speaker 1: Connell Watkins, and we see footage of this woman and
Speaker 1: she explains, like, because a child like this is so unattached,
Speaker 1: they don't let anyone be the boss of them. So
Speaker 1: at this facility, the facility takes total control.
Speaker 4: The kids do not have control of anything.
Speaker 1: You have to want to go to the bathroom, you
Speaker 1: want to sip of water, anything you want to do,
Speaker 1: you have to ask for permission. And this, I guess
Speaker 1: creates some kind of bond. And then the children because
Speaker 1: a lot of these kids, they say, believe that they
Speaker 1: themselves are evil. A lot of them think they're bad kids,
Speaker 1: they're from the devil whatever. And so the woman's like,
Speaker 1: we have to transform how they feel in their minds.
Speaker 1: So she says, after they start to go along with
Speaker 1: the like asking for everything and being like really under
Speaker 1: their control, then they start to loosen it up a
Speaker 1: little bit and build trust and letting them have a
Speaker 1: little bit more freedom. And so they say in the
Speaker 1: documentary that Beth started to improve, like pretty quickly, she
Speaker 1: started to understand right from wrong, She started to respond
Speaker 1: to affection, was more outgoing. She ended up going to
Speaker 1: public school, going to church, singing in the choir. They
Speaker 1: show her in the documentary with a bird on her shoulder,
Speaker 1: so now she's playing with animals without murdering them. So
Speaker 1: they're explaining now she has a conscience and that she
Speaker 1: wants to heal because she has a family who loves her.
Speaker 1: And Beth herself talks in this documentary. She talks about
Speaker 1: the rage that she has inside of her that comes
Speaker 1: from her birth. That hurting her and it made her
Speaker 1: want to hurt people, and she says it hurt her
Speaker 1: the most because when she's hurting other people, she's hurting
Speaker 1: her good self. And she starts crying and it's like
Speaker 1: really heartbreaking, Like this documentary is so heartbreaking, So let
Speaker 1: me get into this a little bit more. The documentary
Speaker 1: labels her as having reactive Attachment disorder, a RAD diagnosis
Speaker 1: is given only to children with the most severe attachment issues,
Speaker 1: and these can develop when a child has been bounced
Speaker 1: around from home to home without any stability, which we
Speaker 1: see all the time in the foster care system. A
Speaker 1: child's hunger or hygienic needs are ignored for hours at
Speaker 1: a time, which happened to little Beth parents and caregivers
Speaker 1: are inconsistent with care or giving affection, or the child
Speaker 1: is left alone or not touched for hours or days
Speaker 1: at a time, which we've talked about other like orphanages.
Speaker 4: Where this happens.
Speaker 1: So now we see some of her recovery in the
Speaker 1: documentary and now and how life was with her adoptive parents,
Speaker 1: Tim and Julie. At some point after this, she is
Speaker 1: adopted by a woman named Nancy Thomas. And I don't
Speaker 1: really understand what's going on. I cannot find out when,
Speaker 1: but there are photos of Nancy at Beth's wedding, so
Speaker 1: they are really related to each other. But I don't
Speaker 1: know when this second adoption happens. And what's weird is
Speaker 1: that they say they called Jonathan Jonathan Thomas, So did
Speaker 1: they just coincidentally have the same last name or did
Speaker 1: she take Thomas as a birth name. Very confusing if
Speaker 1: you have any information. This was one of those things
Speaker 1: where a lot of the information was on websites like
Speaker 1: not the New York Times, not the Washington Posts, like
Speaker 1: kind of websites where it seems like a bunch of
Speaker 1: stuff is cobblet scaller. Most of the links on the
Speaker 1: Wikipedia page are dead, so a lot of the information
Speaker 1: I had to deep dive for. But this woman, Nancy Thomas,
Speaker 1: it was and is. I found her LinkedIn profile. A
Speaker 1: leading proponent of attachment therapy, which has also been called
Speaker 1: rage reduction therapy, the Evergreen model, holding time, compression therapy, rebirthing,
Speaker 1: or corrective attachment therapy, or coercive restraint therapy. It has
Speaker 1: a lot of different names. So here's the good news.
Speaker 1: Beth Thomas is a success story. She is a normal life.
Speaker 1: She is about my age, a little bit younger. She
Speaker 1: graduated college and nursing school, got married, is now an
Speaker 1: award winning registered nurse in flagsaff Arizona. She has co
Speaker 1: authored two books with Nancy about how she overcame reactive
Speaker 1: attachment disorder. One is called More Than a Thread of
Speaker 1: Hope and the other one is called Dandelion on My Pillow,
Speaker 1: Butcher Knife Beneath Scandalous. But I start reading, much like
Speaker 1: you with the parental alienation syndrome. I start reading about
Speaker 1: attachment therapy and I realized that it's considered a pseudoscience.
Speaker 4: I had no idea.
Speaker 1: I think in my mind, I was like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: like legit, right, is an attachment therapy like a thing,
Speaker 1: but I guess it's kind of considered not fully legit
Speaker 1: at all. And remember Connell Walkins, this therapist who helped
Speaker 1: Beth turn around at this facility and helped her recover
Speaker 1: with this attachment therapy.
Speaker 4: Oopsie oops.
Speaker 1: In two thousand, she was arrested and convicted of reckless
Speaker 1: child abuse leading to the death of a child. She
Speaker 1: and another woman killed a ten year old child while
Speaker 1: attempting to put them through rebirthing, which is.
Speaker 4: Ans for you.
Speaker 2: On this there's an sview where there was a therapy
Speaker 2: and they sat on her chest with a bunch of pilla.
Speaker 2: Like there's also like can do type ones, but this
Speaker 2: the squeezing of someone for therapy and then they die.
Speaker 4: It might be even the one with Margot Martindale. I
Speaker 4: don't remember.
Speaker 2: I think it is. I think it is. It's like
Speaker 2: little fanning it.
Speaker 1: It's a little fanning l so she there's video of it,
Speaker 1: which is so fucked up. Like obviously did not watch
Speaker 1: the video, but I read about the video and like
Speaker 1: in the video, this little girl, Candice Newmaker is like stop,
Speaker 1: I can't breathe. It's not working. It's not worthing stop.
Speaker 1: I want to die. I want to die, and they're like,
Speaker 1: go ahead and die. Then, like they are leaning. It's
Speaker 1: like multiple adults are on her, Like it was hundreds
Speaker 1: of pounds of weight, like on this little girl's body.
Speaker 4: So she did suffocate and die.
Speaker 1: And it turned out Watkins was not licensed as a therapist,
Speaker 1: so this whole story is very horrific. She got a
Speaker 1: sixteen year prison sentence but was paroled after eight years.
Speaker 1: And it's like, even though this kind of therapy seems
Speaker 1: to have greatly helped Beth, there have been several deaths
Speaker 1: of children related to attachment therapy and it's believed by
Speaker 1: many to be what Michael aaron A, PhD wrote in
Speaker 1: Psychology Today. He wrote, quote that it is the most
Speaker 1: recent in a long line of psychotherapy crazes promising to
Speaker 1: finally provide the magical solution to reliably heal suffering. So
Speaker 1: I understand people have deep seated trauma of things that
Speaker 1: happen to them and they think, oh, maybe this will work,
Speaker 1: you know, But I don't really have a time to
Speaker 1: do a full deep dive into this type of therapy.
Speaker 1: If you're I'm sure you guys will message me about it.
Speaker 1: But from what I'm reading, it sounds like it is
Speaker 1: not a reliable science. But then I think there's other
Speaker 1: Parts of what I was reading was that people like
Speaker 1: Nancy are like, nobody does rebirthing anymore. Attachment therapy is
Speaker 1: about X Y Z, and I'm sure there are parts
Speaker 1: of it that are completely valid and work because Beth
Speaker 1: Thomas is a success story and it worked for her.
Speaker 1: I don't think she ever got rebirth, no one was
Speaker 1: ever sitting on her. But so that's the story of
Speaker 1: Beth Thomas. I'm also extremely interested in just psychopaths in general,
Speaker 1: and child psychopaths. And I read this amazing article in
Speaker 1: The Atlantic, which it came.
Speaker 4: Out in It's crazy.
Speaker 2: I swore I read this when I lived in New York.
Speaker 2: When did this art? When did this article get written?
Speaker 2: Let me just look really quick. Sorry, No, I'm also
Speaker 2: wondering if it's like too early to even label Beth
Speaker 2: a success story, Like what if she's doing fucked up
Speaker 2: shit as a nurse, or what if she does snap
Speaker 2: one day and kill her husband.
Speaker 4: I don't know, Like, yes, there.
Speaker 2: Is there a way to prove this since the therapy
Speaker 2: is not even proven. Well, just for the best, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think she stopped trying to harm people physically and
Speaker 2: kill animals and stuff. So yeah, but why did she
Speaker 2: not stay with her original family? Did she continue to
Speaker 2: hurt her brother like she needed to be with this
Speaker 2: Nancy woman.
Speaker 4: Like there is just.
Speaker 2: A lot of questions that I still have of, yeah,
Speaker 2: how this works, because it's you can't change being a
Speaker 2: psycho or sociopath, right, Like that's what Beadie Wong said.
Speaker 4: There's no cure for this.
Speaker 1: Right, So I think in this documentar, I'm going to
Speaker 1: get into this right now, because I think a lot
Speaker 1: of times people are very reticent, like bed Wong's character,
Speaker 1: to label kids psychopaths. They're like, oh, they have a
Speaker 1: reactive attachment disorder. Sometimes it can be forms of autism,
Speaker 1: sometimes it can be other kind of behavioral disorders. And
Speaker 1: so they're very reticent to ever put that label on kids.
Speaker 4: And that's why he does it.
Speaker 1: And in the next episode two, there's a lot of like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would say, you know whatever
Speaker 1: when they were because they don't want to label children
Speaker 1: this way. So anyway, here's a little bit of information
Speaker 1: about child psychopaths. This article that came out in the
Speaker 1: Atlantic in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 4: I really thought it was earlier.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was republished, but it's called When Your Child
Speaker 1: Is a Psychopath. It's going to be in the show notes.
Speaker 1: But it's so fucking interesting. It follows like a bunch
Speaker 1: of cases of kids who are psychopaths or have been
Speaker 1: essentially deemed that how do we decide who is a psychopath?
Speaker 1: So there is a psychopathy checklist that is called the
Speaker 1: PCLR because it's been revised, so it's the Psychothapy Checklist.
Speaker 1: Dash are in the r is for the revision. They
Speaker 1: basically grade you on twenty items. Glibness and superficial charm,
Speaker 1: grandiose self, sense of self worth, need for stimulation or
Speaker 1: proneness to boredom, pathological lying, conning and manipulation, lack of
Speaker 1: remorse or guilt, shallow affect, callous lack of empathy, parasitic lifestyle,
Speaker 1: poor behavioral controls, promiscuous sexual behavior, early behavior problems, lack
Speaker 1: of realistic long term goals, impulsivity, irresponsibility, failure to accept
Speaker 1: responsibility for own actions, many short term marital relationships, juvenile delinquency,
Speaker 1: revocation of conditional release, and criminal versatility. So those are
Speaker 1: twenty points and they rate them on zero, one or two.
Speaker 1: Zero is not presenting, one is partial, and two is
Speaker 1: a reasonably good match. So the max score you can
Speaker 1: get is forty and thirty is the cutoff for psychopathy,
Speaker 1: So if you score a thirty or above, you're a
Speaker 1: psychopath according to this checklist. There is also a Psychopathy
Speaker 1: Checklist youth version. That's the PCLYV, which is an adaptation
Speaker 1: of the PCLR for thirteen to eighteen year olds. Then
Speaker 1: for even younger than that, there is the Anti Social
Speaker 1: Processed Screening Device APSD, which is an adaptation of the
Speaker 1: checklist that can be administered by parents or teachers for
Speaker 1: six to thirteen year olds. Because like obviously short term marriages,
Speaker 1: juvenile delinquency, could like revocation of release, there's a few
Speaker 1: of these things that don't apply to children because they
Speaker 1: don't have criminal records. Here are some interesting results of
Speaker 1: people who took the test based on cases that we
Speaker 1: have covered. Canadian serial killer Paul Bernardo and Carla Hamoca.
Speaker 1: They took the checklist test. Bernardo was evaluated at a
Speaker 1: thirty five, well within the psychopath. Hamoka five out of forty,
Speaker 1: so she was not a psychopath. She was just with
Speaker 1: a psychopath.
Speaker 2: Well, what's wild that you cover this episode or because
Speaker 2: while you're talking about Beth Thomas, that reminded me of
Speaker 2: Aria Grainer's character in Damaged and the Damaged episodes based
Speaker 2: on the you know, yeah, what is it?
Speaker 4: Not the Hollywood Killer, the Hotti.
Speaker 2: The Barbie and Ken killers, but Ken and Barbie killers
Speaker 2: is what they were called.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, but wonder people were.
Speaker 2: Really mad that she got out of prison and how
Speaker 2: much was she involved?
Speaker 4: So this is interesting to see that she's, you know,
Speaker 4: to be a.
Speaker 1: Psychopath and then like Ted Bundy thirty nine out of forty,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Jeffrey Dahmer twenty three out of forty.
Speaker 1: He doesn't even test into psychopath. John Wayne Gacy twenty
Speaker 1: seven out of forty. Brian David Mitchell, who was the
Speaker 1: guy who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart, thirty four out of forty.
Speaker 1: Gary Widray, the Green River killer who was married to
Speaker 1: a woman the entire time, who was like, he was
Speaker 1: a lovely husband and did nothing wrong to me ever,
Speaker 1: got a nineteen out of forty. He's the most prolific
Speaker 1: serial killer, I believe from the United States.
Speaker 4: He's killed hundreds of.
Speaker 1: People, Eileen Warnos thirty two out of forty. So she's
Speaker 1: with But Eileen Warnos is an example, so much trauma
Speaker 1: has happened to her.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 1: The Atlantic had this article, like I said, and in it,
Speaker 1: the author writes that quote researchers shy away from calling
Speaker 1: children's psychopaths. The term carries too much stigma and too
Speaker 1: much determinism. They prefer to describe these children's as having
Speaker 1: quote callous and unemotional traits end quote shorthand for a
Speaker 1: cluster of characteristics and behaviors, including a lack of empathy,
Speaker 1: remorse or guilt, shallow emotions, aggression and even cruelty, and
Speaker 1: a seeming indifference to punishment. Callous and unemotional children have
Speaker 1: no trouble hurting others to get what they want. If
Speaker 1: they do seem caring or empathetic, they're probably trying to
Speaker 1: manipulate you. End of quote. The article also states that
Speaker 1: more than fifty studies have found that kids with callous
Speaker 1: and emotional traits are more likely than other kids. One
Speaker 1: study says three times more likely to become criminals or
Speaker 1: display aggressive or psychopathic traits later in life. And so
Speaker 1: while adult psychopaths constitute only a tiny fraction of the
Speaker 1: general population. Studies suggests that they commit half of all
Speaker 1: violent crimes. So even though psychopaths are like it's a small,
Speaker 1: tiny percentage, half of the crimes are committed by them,
Speaker 1: which is nuts.
Speaker 4: Well that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So these others are just you know, cheating husbands
Speaker 2: and wives getting shot at.
Speaker 4: Yeah, or crimes of passion. Yeah, people have napping me
Speaker 4: read Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: The article talks about how there's nature and nurture to psychopathy.
Speaker 1: Some people become this way because of traumas and other
Speaker 1: things that we've discussed for others. It's quote highly hereditary,
Speaker 1: hardwired in the brain end quote, and no amount of
Speaker 1: parental love is going to change it or fix it.
Speaker 1: So honestly, I just want to like read this whole
Speaker 1: article out loud on the podcast. It's so interesting, but
Speaker 1: it's one of those very long ones that takes like
Speaker 1: a few subway rides to read, so I'll let you
Speaker 1: guys read it yourselves. It is in there, but just
Speaker 1: interesting plot points about how you determine a psychopath and
Speaker 1: how scary we are as a society, very hesitant to
Speaker 1: ever like label children that not a guest vusv is
Speaker 1: just like born psychopath.
Speaker 4: That's what's happening. Well, it's just really scary.
Speaker 2: And you know a lot of times, you know, as
Speaker 2: a child free person, I peruse the Instagram accounts and
Speaker 2: get in the comments and oftentimes the whole thing with parents,
Speaker 2: and I do bits about it. But it's like, if
Speaker 2: you don't have kids, you'll never understand unconditional love. Or
Speaker 2: it's like who's gonna take care of you when you're old?
Speaker 2: Or what about this? And it's the most beautiful thing,
Speaker 2: and it's like or your kid could be a born psychopath?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I just think that sometimes people are living in a
Speaker 2: dreamland when you decide to have children, where it's like
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have a kid and they're gonna be perfect,
Speaker 2: and then they're gonna take care of me when I'm
Speaker 2: older and we're gonna and it's like no, yeah, or
Speaker 2: your kid can like stab you?
Speaker 4: How about that? And are you ready for that?
Speaker 2: I just I find it when parents are trying to
Speaker 2: convince other people to have kids in these accounts and
Speaker 2: they come with such anger and it's like you never know,
Speaker 2: you never know, and you have I ready for every
Speaker 2: kind of way your child can be born.
Speaker 4: I'm interested, Yes, that's true, and I'm.
Speaker 1: Interested in how many of the children that are considered
Speaker 1: psychopaths or tending towards psychopathy, how many have a legitimate trauma,
Speaker 1: and how many are just born that way, because like
Speaker 1: in this article they talk about kids that just this
Speaker 1: is just how they are.
Speaker 4: But they also I've.
Speaker 1: Read this book called The Psychopath Test by Michael Ronson
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 4: I am very into this, as you can tell.
Speaker 1: But they like there's people there are grown adults that
Speaker 1: know that they're psychopaths and they have they since they
Speaker 1: had such a loving family that worked with them from
Speaker 1: a young age. They just figure out ways to like
Speaker 1: work to not channel their psychopathy into violence. Like there's way,
Speaker 1: Like I remember reading this story about this guy who
Speaker 1: was just like he heard a story where everybody was
Speaker 1: supposed to feel sad, and he was like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: just didn't feel sad. Like, you know, there's he doesn't
Speaker 1: always have to end up being like a killer. You're
Speaker 1: killing because violence is like something that you're prone to
Speaker 1: or you're lead you're you know, if you're kept away
Speaker 1: from violence. And really, like this guy was like, I
Speaker 1: live a totally normal life.
Speaker 4: I have a wife, I have a job.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I test onto this with the checklist, I
Speaker 1: test as a psychopath.
Speaker 4: Yes, but does he love his wife? I don't know,
Speaker 4: can you feel love?
Speaker 2: Or the two psychopaths just fucking who knows? Hopefully she's
Speaker 2: a psycho too. It just seems so scary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there will be obviously less psychopaths, the less
Speaker 1: that there are horrible people that are just traumatizing children
Speaker 1: at young ages as well, But that's for.
Speaker 2: Another talks of like narcissists that are in therapy, and
Speaker 2: they'll be like, as a narcissist, I do this and that,
Speaker 2: and this is how we do this and manipulate you
Speaker 2: to do this and just like aware of it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you need so much you need to have a
Speaker 2: fucking penthouse. That's what sucks about the parents in the episode.
Speaker 2: They had all the resources and chows not to do
Speaker 2: it for like superficial reasons. And if maybe they did
Speaker 2: intervene sooner, who knows.
Speaker 4: Hmm, I don't know. Well that's that.
Speaker 2: And isn't that psychopath book the tests isn't it uh
Speaker 2: like one in twenty people or is a psychopath or
Speaker 2: one in twenty five people.
Speaker 4: Is a sociopath or something.
Speaker 1: Oh maybe he talks about the difference between sociopaths and
Speaker 1: psychopath Oh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sociopath next door. That's what I think. I think
Speaker 4: their claim is like one in twenty or one in
Speaker 4: twenty five people are a socio. Wow, which seems scary.
Speaker 1: I google it like probably once every six months, the
Speaker 1: difference between a sociopath and a psychopath. It's like, I'll
Speaker 1: get it and then I'll just completely like not remember it.
Speaker 2: Oh to me, it's so seo and psycho or the same,
Speaker 2: except psychos act on it like a socio feels nothing,
Speaker 2: and so does a psychopath. But then a psychopath then
Speaker 2: murders and tortures.
Speaker 1: Hmm, but not necessarily because I read about this guy
Speaker 1: who's like, I'm a psychopath and I'm living a normal life.
Speaker 4: I don't know. Let's move on.
Speaker 1: To our post mortem since we will not be having
Speaker 1: a guest in solidarity for sag Aftra and the WGA.
Speaker 2: Yep, hey, a post mortem with no guest. We are
Speaker 2: genre bending here. That's messed up an SVU podcast.
Speaker 1: Basically, what did we learn from this episode.
Speaker 2: About that parents are bad? Not everyone should be allowed
Speaker 2: to procreate. I'm with China.
Speaker 4: Limit.
Speaker 2: You gotta limit, you gotta limit. I'm into four sterilizations.
Speaker 2: That's what I get one.
Speaker 4: You just get one shot.
Speaker 2: Honestly, No, if you're like these parents, you should not
Speaker 2: be allowed to have kids and pip a coocks come
Speaker 2: on just because they're rich. It's a nice house, like
Speaker 2: the Ruby's in danger. No one cared about Ruby. Nobody,
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 4: You know what I learned.
Speaker 2: Sexism is alive and real in your own fucking home.
Speaker 2: That's what I learned. This girl is being thrown down
Speaker 2: the stairs. She's being abused, she is injured, she has bruises,
Speaker 2: her head hurts, there's matches, and it's like, well, we
Speaker 2: don't want him to be labeled like it is.
Speaker 4: It is Bonker's watch this episode.
Speaker 2: How little the parents care about their daughter and how
Speaker 2: this son will cut this mom's cut her and she's
Speaker 2: like it's my fault.
Speaker 4: Please, he's fine, and it's like he just stabbed you.
Speaker 1: It's so funny because my sister and I talk about
Speaker 1: this all the time because she's a teacher and like
Speaker 1: parents now will always be like, well my kid didn't
Speaker 1: do anything, and like my parents, whenever the school called
Speaker 1: them immediately, we're on the side of the teachers. Like
Speaker 1: even if I was like, mom, though, that's not how
Speaker 1: it happened, she'd be like, don't care.
Speaker 4: The school called the teacher said this. I believe the teachers.
Speaker 1: Like that's how my parents always were, so like, I
Speaker 1: feel like it's such a big shift to this, like
Speaker 1: the to the more modern day of like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: know he's okay, I know he started a fire, but
Speaker 1: that he did not mean to do that, and he like,
Speaker 1: you know, just like excusing your kid's behavior and like
Speaker 1: always thinking that it's an out it's like an external
Speaker 1: excuse and not like that your kid's just like doing
Speaker 1: something bad.
Speaker 2: Well, and I know that you're lying because I know
Speaker 2: that you know you're kid is an asshole. Like this
Speaker 2: idea of like not my kid, it's like, you know
Speaker 2: it's your kid. Isn't that why you need a drink
Speaker 2: wine at night? Like, well, fine line to me.
Speaker 1: I feel like a little bit subtly they they were
Speaker 1: they were a little bit.
Speaker 4: Too subtle with the dad. I feel like the dad.
Speaker 1: Was the reason the mom was like doing so much hiding,
Speaker 1: because you could tell the mom was scared. She was
Speaker 1: like sometimes I do hate him, and then he slashed
Speaker 1: her with a fucking knife. Like and then when we go,
Speaker 1: you know, spoiler alert, we are covering the second half,
Speaker 1: and like the he gets his new wife fully on board,
Speaker 1: even though she's not.
Speaker 4: Like I think, we get a lot.
Speaker 1: We get a lot of the feeling that the dad
Speaker 1: is probably like, no, I won't label him, and this
Speaker 1: and that, and that the dad's more in the driver's
Speaker 1: seat of it, and the mom is just like what
Speaker 1: But maybe I'm just being an apology a Hope Davis apologist.
Speaker 2: No. Well, it's interesting because he kept saying that he
Speaker 2: has rage issues. Okay, so this was just a clip
Speaker 2: from a podcast on like YouTube shorts, so please do
Speaker 2: not you know this is in Bible.
Speaker 4: But where did that come from? Bible?
Speaker 2: The Kardashians. Oh my god, I kind of like it. It
Speaker 2: might be my new thing. So it was the first
Speaker 2: time I said it, and it made me feel rich.
Speaker 2: So I saw a clip where a professor was teaching
Speaker 2: about psychopaths and he was doing like brain wave testing
Speaker 2: with like they were going to test brain activity, but
Speaker 2: they needed a control group, so everyone in the class
Speaker 2: and then the professor did brain scans to have a
Speaker 2: control group, and then one brain was like, oh, this
Speaker 2: is a psychopath.
Speaker 4: Fuck. And then the professor.
Speaker 2: Checked who it was and it was him and he
Speaker 2: was a psychopath, and he was like, oh that makes sense.
Speaker 2: And he started kind of going through it and it
Speaker 2: is wild because he's never acted on it and he's
Speaker 2: not a killer and he didn't murder, and you have
Speaker 2: to be a psychopath, like you have to do you
Speaker 2: have to commit crime to considered a psychopath. But he
Speaker 2: said something like when people were at dinner talking, he
Speaker 2: would just wish they would all leave and die, and
Speaker 2: like he would think these things, but even the professor
Speaker 2: didn't put it together that he was a psycho.
Speaker 1: There are people like that in this will lead us
Speaker 1: right into our what would sister peg do? But there
Speaker 1: are people like that in the article that I talked
Speaker 1: about in the episode, like the guys that are like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I ended up taking this test and it turns out
Speaker 1: I'm a psychopath.
Speaker 4: But I've never done anything violent.
Speaker 1: And but I do recognize some of the thoughts I
Speaker 1: have are like someone will tell me a story and
Speaker 1: I'll be like I don't care. I don't have no
Speaker 1: empathy for that, Like the like there's there's nothing is
Speaker 1: making me feel anything about this story. And he figured
Speaker 1: out that he's on the psychopath scale. But not this
Speaker 1: article is really interesting. Let me let me get into it.
Speaker 1: So what would sester peg do?
Speaker 2: This way more good Taylor Swift news. Not only did
Speaker 2: she give bonuses to all her crew, you know, totaling
Speaker 2: fifty five million dollars, it's come out that she's been
Speaker 2: giving such giant donations at food pantries at every city
Speaker 2: she goes to that like in San Francisco, half a
Speaker 2: million people can eat a month for a year, Like
Speaker 2: half a million people per month for a year will
Speaker 2: be able to eat because of Taylor Swift's donations. These
Speaker 2: food banks say it's the biggest donations they've ever gotten
Speaker 2: from anyone or entity, but any ever.
Speaker 4: That's awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's always been my dream to be able to
Speaker 2: like hook up with shelters and stuff when I tour, but.
Speaker 4: Never never done it. Cool.
Speaker 2: I hope this inspires a lot of people. And then
Speaker 2: of course I read Beyonce has been doing this this
Speaker 2: whole time. Just no, it's you know, white supremacy always. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Beyonce is just not in the convo.
Speaker 4: It's it's wild. I just saw something on.
Speaker 2: Insta where it was just like everyone's just like Barbee
Speaker 2: Taylor feminism, and it's like, okay, is Beyonce not changing
Speaker 2: economies and making billions too? I just I don't get
Speaker 2: why how people don't see it, but whatever.
Speaker 1: And it is Virgo season, which means you've recently had
Speaker 1: a birthday. Beyonce's recently had a birthday. I'm having my
Speaker 1: birthday coming up. We're we're in our virgo.
Speaker 4: Season, baby, So Ludacris is a virgo.
Speaker 1: Okay, important, Michelle Visage, we have the same birthday.
Speaker 4: Well, Luda's SVU. That's why. Oh Yeahdvsage should be SVU.
Speaker 4: Let's get her on.
Speaker 2: But I could see, you know, if we're saying any anyone,
Speaker 2: I'll say Richard Gear.
Speaker 1: You know, we've definitely talked to other guests and been like,
Speaker 1: so you're a virgo.
Speaker 4: Okay, let's get into what would sister Peg do.
Speaker 1: This is our weekly segment where we point you guys
Speaker 1: to an article, a blog post, a charitable organization, something,
Speaker 1: a doc, something to give you more info about what
Speaker 1: we talked about. And I'm obviously pointing you today to
Speaker 1: the article that I can't stop talking about. I'm obsessed
Speaker 1: with it. It's from twenty seventeen. It's from the Atlantic
Speaker 1: and it's called When Your Child Is a Psychopath by
Speaker 1: Barbara Bradley Haggerty. I read this when it first came out.
Speaker 1: I'm planning to reread it. It's up in my bookmarks
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: It's an article that goes in depth on several cases
Speaker 1: of child psychopaths, and it explores the Mendota Juveniles Treatment
Speaker 1: Center in Madison, Wisconsin that is attempting to treat violent youths.
Speaker 1: And you can find the link to that in our
Speaker 1: show notes because I reference parts of it in the article.
Speaker 1: But you can also always find out what would Sister
Speaker 1: peg dos in our WWSPD highlights on our Instagram where
Speaker 1: we save them forever.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I really appreciate you saying that.
Speaker 2: And you did mention Madison. And is it trashy if
Speaker 2: we say we are coming back to Madison And next
Speaker 2: week's episode is post graduate Psychopath? Are you shocked or not?
Speaker 2: It is a two parter bang bang back and forth.
Speaker 2: Let's do this season twenty two, episode fourteen. Let's see
Speaker 2: how the Born Psychopath is doing post graduation.
Speaker 4: See you next week.
Speaker 2: Bye, guys, That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and.
Speaker 4: At glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cotner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
Speaker 1: and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and
Speaker 1: everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 4: Dut dun