WEBVTT - The Rise and Fall of Vine 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.480 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:18.120 Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio, 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:21.280 and how the tech are you? You know, there are 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.120 a ton of stories that are just pouring out of 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:28.600 Twitter the company these days, thanks to Elon Musk cleaning 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:32.040 house and shaking things super hard so that you know, 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.280 all the spare change comes flying out of pockets. And 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:39.080 one of those stories is that Musk is reportedly interested 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:44.919 in bringing back the video sharing service Vine. He tweeted 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.400 out a poll asking if Twitter should bring back that 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:52.080 video platform, and Musk has a habit of creating polls 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:56.280 crafted to get high engagement, so at first it was 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.720 a little tricky to gauge whether this was an earnest 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:04.119 indication that the dead product is headed toward a resurrection. 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:08.240 But Axios reports that sources within Twitter have been told 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.680 to get to work on a rebooted version of Vine, 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.200 with the goal of having it launched by year's end, 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:16.920 which is coming up pretty darn soon. So it's a 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:21.720 very aggressive timetable. But from what we hear inside Twitter, 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.440 that seems like that's kind of Musk's m O right now, 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.320 and I thought, you know what, in the meantime, how 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:33.119 about I talked about the previous incarnation of Vine, because 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.240 it really felt like Vine was a product ahead of 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:40.319 its time, one that at its height was extremely popular 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:44.640 and helped pave the way for TikTok later on, as 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.360 well as like Instagram reels and that kind of stuff. 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:52.240 So what is the story on Vine. Well, it all 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.760 began back in two thousand and twelve at a company 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.760 called jet Center. There were three colleagues at this company, 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:05.560 Tom Hoffman, Russ Yusuprov and Uh and Colin Kroll, and 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.400 they were working for this hotel booking travel site. Kroll 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:14.239 was the CTO. Hoffman was a developer, Yusupov was a designer, 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.519 and this company would later get acquired by trip Advisor 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.960 in two thousand thirteen. But by then these three guys 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.360 had moved on. They were all in their mid twenties 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.160 at this time in two thousand twelve, and they found 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:32.360 they had a common desire to create something of their own. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.040 They all had had experience working at different companies and 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.120 they kind of wanted to make their own startup and 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:43.760 they were gravitating toward social networks and services, which in 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:46.440 two thousand twelve was pretty much what everyone was interested 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:51.680 in tapping into. Moreover, while social media sites like Facebook 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.720 would let you share posts with your friends, and Twitter 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.280 would let you share what you were having for lunch 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:03.200 with friends and strange yours, and Instagram let you share photos, 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.080 no one had really landed on a good mobile app 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:11.680 to create, edit and share videos. You know, this was 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.839 a pretty tricky time to do that because we were 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:22.160 not yet in a really mobile broadband era, so there 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.480 was some opportunity there for someone to go in and 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.320 create something that could really make a big splash. So 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:32.960 they decided they were going to create a smartphone video app, 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:38.880 an app made to create, edit and share videos. Uh. 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.960 And they wanted something beyond just a point and shoot approach, right. 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:47.520 They really wanted something where creators could make innovative videos. 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:52.000 They could actually do their video in a series of edits, 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:56.280 so they wouldn't have to just do one long take. 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.440 You can actually divide that up. And their approach was 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:03.240 pretty simple when they designed it. They would have a 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.480 record feature where you would hold your finger down on 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.440 the screen to record, and if you lifted your finger 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.120 off the screen, then the recording would pause and it 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.400 would be a cut, and then when you put your 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:17.800 finger down again, it would start recording again, so you 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.640 could create videos through a series of cuts. This way, 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.039 it was the simplest, most primitive type of in camera editing, 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.880 but it created an opportunity for really innovative people to 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.080 use the app to tell stories. In fact, there are 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:37.360 some truly uh phenomenal creators who use this very simple 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:44.279 approach to make really compelling or hilarious or inspiring videos. 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.440 In some cases now early on in the development process, 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:51.560 this is before they launched the app, they weren't really 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.200 thinking of a time limit for videos. They were just 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:56.160 letting you go for as long as you needed to go, 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:58.600 and then once you were done, you could share your 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.720 video with others. But since they were focusing on smartphones 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:06.080 and people were mostly sharing things like their friends who 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.839 were testing this, we're mostly sharing things that by texting 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:13.400 each other, limitations and bandwidth as well as storage meant 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:15.880 that they really had to start thinking about setting a 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:19.640 time limit or else the videos created would be so 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:24.080 large that uh it would gum up your phone to 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.240 try and send one to someone else, and it would 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.760 be a frustrating experience. So they decided, well, we need 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.080 to limit how long these videos can be for the 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.359 purposes of utility, and it had to be something that 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.480 could be share able. And you couldn't really just share 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.400 a ten minute long video instantly from one phone to another, 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.920 like like sending a photograph was simple, but sending a 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.880 long video was another matter. So they started to experiment 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:54.040 with different time limits. They ultimately decided to limit the 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.760 videos to around six seconds, six and a half something 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.560 like that. And that is a short amount of time, Like, 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:03.200 you can't do a whole lot in six seconds. You 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.960 can do more than you might think, but you know, 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.320 obviously it is a strict limit. This would be long 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:11.240 enough to send a quick video. You know, maybe you 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.640 want to wish someone a happy birthday, or you have 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:15.919 a corny dad joke that you want to use to 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.560 make your buddies cringe. That would be my way of 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.080 using it if I were to take advantage of Vine today. 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.400 But six seconds is really short. It would be really 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.360 easy to miss what's going on as you play a video. Right, 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:31.839 So let's say you get a video and you push play. 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.520 If it's only six seconds long, and you're fumbling for 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.080 earbuds or something, You've already missed the video by the 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.400 time you turn back to it. So the team made 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:43.039 another decision that would give Vine it's particular kind of 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:47.440 twist its character. They designed the app so that when 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:51.240 you opened the video, the video would automatically loop once 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.320 it reached its end, so go right back to the beginning. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.800 So yeah, each video is just six or so seconds long, 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.680 but it will keep looping until you stop bit. The 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:05.120 app would allow users to also comment on posted videos, 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.120 so it created a more social experience rather than just 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:11.880 you know, sharing videos back and forth. That there was 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:17.400 a user generated content part of the response as well, 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:21.560 and that made a big difference. The three decided that 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.400 they would call the app Vine, and they founded their 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.920 company in the summer of two thousand and twelve. Now 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.120 they were still working on that app four months later 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:35.280 in October, but then they got an offer they couldn't 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:38.640 or at least didn't refuse, though at least one of 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:43.080 the founders said in subsequent times that he wishes they 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.800 had refused it. We'll get to that. And the offer 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:51.680 came from Drumroll Please Twitter, and the offer was for 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:56.120 a reported thirty million dollars, So you're looking at three 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.480 co founders. That's ten million apiece. Not bad, that's a 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.000 lot of check. Also a side note, while I was 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:06.040 researching this, actually came across a site that has a 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.400 really bad typo in it because that site claimed that 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:13.720 the sale was for thirty billion dollars. That is a 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.600 a big difference. I think if the offer had been 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:20.120 in the billions, the founders wouldn't have felt any regret 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.640 at all about selling out in two thousand twelve, I mean, 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:26.320 why would you. Anyway, Twitter was on a bit of 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.040 a tear back in two thousand and twelve. The company 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:34.079 had already acquired several other companies and products. They included 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:40.840 ones like Summifi, Posterous, Daisy, and rest Engine, among several others. 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.360 That's just for two thousand twelve. So Twitter was on 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:47.920 like this crazy growth streak and was in a boom period. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.960 And it's kind of funny because while the company had 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:55.679 first started launching monetization strategies in twenty two years earlier, 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.439 it wouldn't be until two thousand eighteen that Twitter would 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:04.720 post its first profitable quarter. So while they were generating revenue, 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.560 they were by no means profitable, and yet Twitter was 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.280 scooping up lots of other companies all along the way, 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.880 so that was kind of a crazy thing. In fact, 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:17.959 that's one of the elements that people point to a 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.280 Twitter saying that perhaps this is a company that has 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:26.960 a history of questionable management decisions. Uying at this point 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:31.040 was a jang Kee Unstable app that the three colleagues 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.679 had basically only really shared with their close friends, and 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:37.679 so they're close friends were acting as beta testers. They 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.199 were trying out the app, creating videos, sending them to 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.600 each other, and then giving feedback on what their experience 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.760 was like. And initially the app had some pretty interesting 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:52.840 limitations too. For example, at first the app only allowed 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:56.240 you to record with the back facing camera on an iPhone, 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:00.440 and you know, with your basic smartphone, the higher resolution 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.200 camera is on the back, so at least that means 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:07.160 you've got the better of the cameras as your camera 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.600 for your vines. But it also meant that if you 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.800 want to make a vine of yourself, like in selfie mode, 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:14.960 you would have to do it with the screen facing 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.480 away from you because only the back camera would work. 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.120 So it's really hard to tell if you had framed 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:24.200 the video up properly, and for a video with multiple cuts, 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.719 if you screwed up a later cut, like you get 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.240 your first cut, you know, your first, your first segment, 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:34.480 it's perfect. You start your second and something goes wrong, 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:36.880 you know, whatever it may be, maybe you flubb a line, 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.960 maybe a light goes out, whatever it is, you would 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.000 have to go back to the beginning and start all 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.400 over again, or you would just have to live with 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.480 whatever the mistake was in the video and send it 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.120 out that way, you could not delete a single segment 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.880 and just redo that segment. You had to start from 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:58.800 the beginning. Twitter saw potential in this product. The acquisition 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.920 would bring the three Vine co founders over to Twitter itself. 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.760 There they would continue for a time working on the 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.800 app with the goal of launching it under the Twitter umbrella. 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.160 It also meant signing over the exclusive rights to their 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:17.680 creation to Twitter. So they took the deal, and uh, 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:20.960 like Lando Calrisian, some of them felt that that deal 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.240 was getting worse all the time. I'll explain more when 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:36.520 we come back from this quick break. So Twitter acquires 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.520 Vine in October two thousand twelve. Keep in mind the 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.679 app has not launched yet. People are starting to hear 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.560 about it because it had some buzz. I mean, Twitter 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.360 heard about it, but it was in a closed beta, 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.720 so it's not like it was in widespread distribution. What 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:58.120 followed Twitter's acquisition was three months of intense development and 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:03.240 in January. In fact, on January two thousand thirteen, the 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:07.040 Vine app would officially launch on the Apple App Store, 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:11.640 and it became popular fairly quickly. In fact, it hit 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.400 the top of Apple's charts by April. For the free 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:19.319 apps available on iOS, Android users would have to wait 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.320 until June second of two thousand thirteen, and Windows Phone, 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:27.240 which was still a thing back then, would get its 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:31.280 version in November two thousand thirteen. Now, the launch of 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:35.559 Vine gave birth to a really wild and weird era 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:40.319 of user creativity. Some vines were pretty straightforward. You might 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.640 get a sixth second clip of someone singing or playing 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.320 a song, for example, and that actually helped launch a 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.840 few careers in the music business. You had people who 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:54.240 got discovered because they had created a viral vine of 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.960 them singing some popular song. Other vines were comedy bits, 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:03.800 usually in bell with fun edits to emphasize an absurd punchline. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.439 A few folks got really good at creating six second 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:11.120 long videos that used edit to editing these cuts to 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.600 create effects that would actually be impossible to pull off 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.120 in the real world. Like you might be running toward 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.720 a wall and then because of a cut, it looks 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.080 like you've just passed through the wall by magic right 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.760 just magically telepoint to the other side of the wall. 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.559 That was something that was possible if you were really 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:32.960 good at framing up your video and you had a 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.559 clever edit in there. A lot of these would take 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:37.520 a lot of trial and error to get just right, 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:39.560 to get the angle right, to get the timing right, 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:44.160 and the payoff was you would get these six second videos. 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:49.360 They're really awesome. I mean, six seconds isn't a long time, 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:51.679 but it also means it's not enough time to get bored. Right, 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.040 if you watch a vine that's a bad vine, don't worry, 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.720 it's over in six seconds and you can watch something else. 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:01.360 And the really good ones made you appreciate how much 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.800 work must have gone in to making just those six 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.800 seconds of entertainment. Now, creating a good vine took imagination, 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.120 it took skill, at least took some sort of demonstrable 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:17.800 talent on screen. There were some arguably very dumb videos 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.960 that became viral on Vine. Does anyone out there remember 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:27.440 the series of vines featuring comedian Will Sasso inexplicably spitting 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:31.880 up whole lemons. There was an entire string of them, 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.680 so a lot of ones that hit it big showed 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.960 incredible ingenuity. I don't know if the limit thing showed ingenuity, 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.840 It certainly showed absurdity, and I will admit that at 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.760 the time I thought they were hilarious. I actually rewatched 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:48.760 them in preparation for this episode, and as I rewatched them, 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.560 I thought boy passed Jonathan had a difference it's of 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:57.440 humor than current Jonathan does. Under Twitter's ownership, Vine got 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:02.720 some new features, so over to time the app evolved. Uh. 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:07.320 For example, eventually creators were able to put their content 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:11.960 into different categories so that it was easier to discover 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:14.560 their work. So instead of it just being a catch 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.080 all where you go to Vine and like all the 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.440 vines you're seeing are just random videos, you could explore 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:25.320 specific subcategories, so stuff like comedy. You know, all the 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.560 would be SNL writers could file their vines and comedy, 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.760 all the editing geniuses can make crazy effects and put 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:37.040 their work under the category of art and experimental that 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.680 kind of thing. They also had dedicated categories for things 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:44.280 like cats and then dogs, which I appreciate because you know, 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.240 if you're a if you're a dog person, you might 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:49.640 be just tired of all the cat videos online. You 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.640 just want to go straight to the puppies. Another big 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:57.920 update was the long awaited support for front facing cameras 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.120 that made it far easier to create selfie style videos, 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:05.520 so that did emerge Under Twitter's ownership of Vine. Twitter 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.480 also introduced a retweet like feature, in fact, it was 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:14.440 called revine, where users could post vines that they loved 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.120 to their own feeds and help boost the signal. They 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.320 could even post it to other platforms. At one point. 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.840 Vine also introduced a web based version, so you didn't 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.400 have to just use your smartphone too, you know, search 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.400 all the vines and watch them. You could actually do 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:34.200 it from your desktop computer. It also introduced a counter 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.880 that would register every single loop of a video, so 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.920 it was a loop counter, and that definitely helped with 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:44.560 engagement too, because I don't know about you, but if 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.640 I see that there's a video that has a huge 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.720 number of views under it, and I'm already kind of 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:52.800 interested in the topic. I'm more likely to click on 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:57.240 the video because the implication there is this video is 0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:59.200 one that's worth watching. Look at how many people have 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.640 seen it. Now we all know that that's not necessarily 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.440 the case. Sometimes you watch one of those videos you think, 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:06.919 while this was garbage, but you know it's it's kind 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.199 of a natural inclination. You see something that's popular, you 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.720 get curious about it, so you check it out for yourself. 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:19.040 At its height, Vine saw two hundred million monthly active users. 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:24.520 It was a rousing success from that perspective, with brands 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.440 and celebrities jumping onto Vine in order to take advantage 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.600 of the apps reach, because obviously, anytime we have any 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:35.959 kind of communication tool that ends up being remotely successful, 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.679 you typically see people try and take advantage of it 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.080 in order to extend their own brand, whether that's a 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:47.600 company or a celebrity. I did not, despite the fact 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.919 that I arguably have a brand, something that's difficult for 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.840 me to reconcile on a day to day basis, I 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.000 never got into Vine. I mean I watched them, but 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.679 I never created them, uh, which probably explain pans my 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:05.040 limited reach anyway, it was also making brand new celebrities. 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.280 Not only were celebrities making use of Vine, Vine was 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:13.320 creating celebrities itself, like the Paul Brothers and a lot 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.720 of popular Vine creators went on to create even bigger 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:22.240 success in other venues from music to Twitch, to YouTube, etcetera. 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:27.600 As Vine was launching on Android, Facebook, the company, so 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:32.200 we would call it meta today, was doing what Facebook 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.119 does best. And by that I mean the company is 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:39.320 famous for either acquiring any competition out there that could 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:44.200 potentially pull eyeballs away from Facebook products, or it launches 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.199 its own version of whatever the popular thing is in 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.239 an attempt to grab some of those eyeballs. So in 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.639 this case, Facebook, in the form of Instagram, introduced a 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:58.280 way to record short videos and then share them through Instagram. 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.800 So this became uh kind of a competitor to Vine. 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:03.640 In fact, a lot of people called it out as 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:08.679 a blatantly obvious attempt of Facebook trying to get in 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.760 on Vine's game. Now, this spurred of back and forth 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:15.080 kind of tug of war between Twitter slash Vine and 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:20.800 Facebook slash Instagram. Instagram initially allowed users to record videos 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.280 that were up to fifteen seconds long, so more than 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:28.040 twice the length of Vine. A little bit later, Instagram 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.600 increase that to a full sixty seconds, so you could 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:35.920 record an entire minute of video. Twitter slash Vine responded 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.919 by allowing a certain subset of creators, like some of 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.760 the more popular creators on the platform, to record videos 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.879 that were up to one hundred forty seconds long. And 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:49.240 you might say, well, that seems like an arbitrary number 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.560 of seconds, but then you need to remember that at 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.800 at that time, back in those days, Twitter had a 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:59.480 strict character limit of one forty This was before Twitter 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.040 stended that to to eight, so you can only post 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.360 Twitter messages that were up to a hundred forty characters long. 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:10.320 So it was kind of consistent, right, a hundred forty 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:15.080 characters videos could be a hundred forty seconds cute. Another 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:18.719 competitor to Vine at this time was Snapchat. Snapchat had 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:23.240 actually launched before Hoffman, Yusupov, and Kroll got the idea 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:28.560 for Vine, so that had already been out. But Snapchat 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:32.560 started as a a photo sharing app where the photos 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:37.159 would disappear after a certain amount of time, and Snapchat 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.639 then introduced the ability to take videos of up to 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.320 ten seconds in length towards the end of two thousand twelve, 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.919 so still before Vine even launched. By two thousand fifteen, 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.960 Snapchat was adding other features to its video creation tools 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.879 to set it apart from Instagram and Vine, which created 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:56.560 more competition in the space. And I think there were 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:01.479 two major factors that ultimately doomed Vine. One was that 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:05.520 while Twitter added some features to the app, the company 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:09.920 never really put full support behind Vine. They never made 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.520 it a leader in the video sharing space once competition 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:17.320 began to ramp up. You know, they enjoyed the number 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.560 one spot briefly, but they didn't do anything to hold 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:23.240 onto that, or they didn't do enough. I guess they 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:26.600 did do stuff, they just didn't do enough. But another 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:30.480 reason that it was doomed was because of something Twitter 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.480 had been struggling with since, which was finding an effective 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:38.320 way to monetize the product. Creators were starting to migrate 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:41.000 to other platforms, with some of them going to YouTube 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.480 where they could create longer videos and see direct benefits 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:48.840 from monetization. You know, Vine, the best way of of 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:52.560 really profiting from it was to leverage your popularity to 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:57.040 make money in some secondary way. You know, maybe you 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:01.520 get a sponsorship deal. Maybe someone discovers you, but you're 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.960 not really making money from Vine itself, and in late 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.879 two thousand sixteen, Twitter announced it would be shutting down 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:12.160 Vine in the coming months. Initially, Twitter would keep vines 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.199 available for people to search and to watch, but the 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:20.520 ability to upload new content would go away. Twitter did 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:26.560 attempt to resuscitate Vine in two thousand seventeen by integrating 0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:31.959 the features of Vine into Twitter. The company launched a 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:35.320 new app called Vine Camera, which would allow users to 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.240 create Vine style videos, but there was no longer a 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.680 Vine app that you would use to share those videos too, 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.520 so instead you essentially had two options. You could either 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:49.280 keep your videos on your your Vine cameras camera roll, 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:53.000 where I guess you could enjoy it yourself whenever you liked, 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:57.919 or you could share your new Vine style video on Twitter. 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:02.600 The Vine community died out pretty quickly. Creators had already 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:07.200 started to move to other platforms, and Twitter's lackluster support 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:12.080 really meant that there wasn't much there there. Twitter did 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:15.119 allow folks to continue to access an archive of Vine 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:19.320 videos until two thousand nineteen, and at that point Twitter 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:23.400 even shut down the archive, and Vine itself was dead. 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:28.160 There's some vines that that live on because people downloaded 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:33.080 them and then shared them to YouTube, but otherwise they're 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:39.000 lost to the the mists of time. We're gonna take 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:41.760 another quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about 0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:45.760 what happened with the Vine co founders, as well as 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:50.639 a little bit about Twitter's plan to bring Vine back. 0:23:51.119 --> 0:24:04.720 But first let's take a break. Okay, let's have a 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:09.600 quick rundown on what happened to vines three co founders. 0:24:09.680 --> 0:24:11.840 And before I get into it, I do want to 0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:15.000 give a trigger warning couple of them. Actually this story 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:19.280 includes tragedy. I will warn you again when I get there. 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:22.840 I'll save that for the third of the three co founders. 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:27.440 So first up is Dom Hoffman. Initially, he served as 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:30.760 the lead general manager for Vine while he was at Twitter, 0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:34.119 but he made the decision to leave Twitter in two 0:24:34.160 --> 0:24:38.960 thousand fourteen to go and work on another startup. For 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:42.159 several years, he teased something that he was calling v 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:48.000 two and in he announced Bite b y t E, 0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:52.600 which was a short form video app that would let 0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:59.000 folks create, edit, and share short, looped videos. Sounds familiar, 0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:03.000 I bet Bite went into a closed beta in two 0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:07.000 thousand eighteen, it became an official app both on Google 0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:09.960 and uh an Apple. At this point, whendows Phone was 0:25:10.040 --> 0:25:14.680 bye bye in early a year later. In fact, almost 0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:19.240