1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio, 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: and how the tech are you? You know, there are 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: a ton of stories that are just pouring out of 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: Twitter the company these days, thanks to Elon Musk cleaning 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: house and shaking things super hard so that you know, 8 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: all the spare change comes flying out of pockets. And 9 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: one of those stories is that Musk is reportedly interested 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: in bringing back the video sharing service Vine. He tweeted 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: out a poll asking if Twitter should bring back that 12 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: video platform, and Musk has a habit of creating polls 13 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: crafted to get high engagement, so at first it was 14 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: a little tricky to gauge whether this was an earnest 15 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:04,119 Speaker 1: indication that the dead product is headed toward a resurrection. 16 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: But Axios reports that sources within Twitter have been told 17 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: to get to work on a rebooted version of Vine, 18 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: with the goal of having it launched by year's end, 19 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: which is coming up pretty darn soon. So it's a 20 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: very aggressive timetable. But from what we hear inside Twitter, 21 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: that seems like that's kind of Musk's m O right now, 22 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: and I thought, you know what, in the meantime, how 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 1: about I talked about the previous incarnation of Vine, because 24 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: it really felt like Vine was a product ahead of 25 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: its time, one that at its height was extremely popular 26 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: and helped pave the way for TikTok later on, as 27 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: well as like Instagram reels and that kind of stuff. 28 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: So what is the story on Vine. Well, it all 29 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: began back in two thousand and twelve at a company 30 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: called jet Center. There were three colleagues at this company, 31 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: Tom Hoffman, Russ Yusuprov and Uh and Colin Kroll, and 32 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: they were working for this hotel booking travel site. Kroll 33 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 1: was the CTO. Hoffman was a developer, Yusupov was a designer, 34 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 1: and this company would later get acquired by trip Advisor 35 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: in two thousand thirteen. But by then these three guys 36 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: had moved on. They were all in their mid twenties 37 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: at this time in two thousand twelve, and they found 38 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: they had a common desire to create something of their own. 39 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: They all had had experience working at different companies and 40 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: they kind of wanted to make their own startup and 41 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: they were gravitating toward social networks and services, which in 42 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve was pretty much what everyone was interested 43 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: in tapping into. Moreover, while social media sites like Facebook 44 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: would let you share posts with your friends, and Twitter 45 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: would let you share what you were having for lunch 46 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: with friends and strange yours, and Instagram let you share photos, 47 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: no one had really landed on a good mobile app 48 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: to create, edit and share videos. You know, this was 49 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,839 Speaker 1: a pretty tricky time to do that because we were 50 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: not yet in a really mobile broadband era, so there 51 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: was some opportunity there for someone to go in and 52 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: create something that could really make a big splash. So 53 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: they decided they were going to create a smartphone video app, 54 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: an app made to create, edit and share videos. Uh. 55 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: And they wanted something beyond just a point and shoot approach, right. 56 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: They really wanted something where creators could make innovative videos. 57 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: They could actually do their video in a series of edits, 58 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: so they wouldn't have to just do one long take. 59 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: You can actually divide that up. And their approach was 60 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: pretty simple when they designed it. They would have a 61 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: record feature where you would hold your finger down on 62 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: the screen to record, and if you lifted your finger 63 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: off the screen, then the recording would pause and it 64 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: would be a cut, and then when you put your 65 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: finger down again, it would start recording again, so you 66 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: could create videos through a series of cuts. This way, 67 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: it was the simplest, most primitive type of in camera editing, 68 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: but it created an opportunity for really innovative people to 69 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: use the app to tell stories. In fact, there are 70 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: some truly uh phenomenal creators who use this very simple 71 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: approach to make really compelling or hilarious or inspiring videos. 72 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: In some cases now early on in the development process, 73 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: this is before they launched the app, they weren't really 74 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: thinking of a time limit for videos. They were just 75 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: letting you go for as long as you needed to go, 76 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: and then once you were done, you could share your 77 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: video with others. But since they were focusing on smartphones 78 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: and people were mostly sharing things like their friends who 79 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: were testing this, we're mostly sharing things that by texting 80 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: each other, limitations and bandwidth as well as storage meant 81 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: that they really had to start thinking about setting a 82 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: time limit or else the videos created would be so 83 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: large that uh it would gum up your phone to 84 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: try and send one to someone else, and it would 85 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: be a frustrating experience. So they decided, well, we need 86 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: to limit how long these videos can be for the 87 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: purposes of utility, and it had to be something that 88 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: could be share able. And you couldn't really just share 89 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: a ten minute long video instantly from one phone to another, 90 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: like like sending a photograph was simple, but sending a 91 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: long video was another matter. So they started to experiment 92 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: with different time limits. They ultimately decided to limit the 93 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: videos to around six seconds, six and a half something 94 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: like that. And that is a short amount of time, Like, 95 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: you can't do a whole lot in six seconds. You 96 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: can do more than you might think, but you know, 97 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: obviously it is a strict limit. This would be long 98 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: enough to send a quick video. You know, maybe you 99 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: want to wish someone a happy birthday, or you have 100 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 1: a corny dad joke that you want to use to 101 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: make your buddies cringe. That would be my way of 102 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: using it if I were to take advantage of Vine today. 103 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: But six seconds is really short. It would be really 104 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: easy to miss what's going on as you play a video. Right, 105 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: So let's say you get a video and you push play. 106 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: If it's only six seconds long, and you're fumbling for 107 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: earbuds or something, You've already missed the video by the 108 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: time you turn back to it. So the team made 109 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: another decision that would give Vine it's particular kind of 110 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: twist its character. They designed the app so that when 111 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: you opened the video, the video would automatically loop once 112 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: it reached its end, so go right back to the beginning. 113 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: So yeah, each video is just six or so seconds long, 114 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: but it will keep looping until you stop bit. The 115 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: app would allow users to also comment on posted videos, 116 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: so it created a more social experience rather than just 117 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: you know, sharing videos back and forth. That there was 118 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: a user generated content part of the response as well, 119 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: and that made a big difference. The three decided that 120 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: they would call the app Vine, and they founded their 121 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: company in the summer of two thousand and twelve. Now 122 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: they were still working on that app four months later 123 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: in October, but then they got an offer they couldn't 124 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: or at least didn't refuse, though at least one of 125 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: the founders said in subsequent times that he wishes they 126 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: had refused it. We'll get to that. And the offer 127 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: came from Drumroll Please Twitter, and the offer was for 128 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: a reported thirty million dollars, So you're looking at three 129 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: co founders. That's ten million apiece. Not bad, that's a 130 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: lot of check. Also a side note, while I was 131 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: researching this, actually came across a site that has a 132 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: really bad typo in it because that site claimed that 133 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: the sale was for thirty billion dollars. That is a 134 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: a big difference. I think if the offer had been 135 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: in the billions, the founders wouldn't have felt any regret 136 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: at all about selling out in two thousand twelve, I mean, 137 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: why would you. Anyway, Twitter was on a bit of 138 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: a tear back in two thousand and twelve. The company 139 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: had already acquired several other companies and products. They included 140 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: ones like Summifi, Posterous, Daisy, and rest Engine, among several others. 141 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: That's just for two thousand twelve. So Twitter was on 142 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: like this crazy growth streak and was in a boom period. 143 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: And it's kind of funny because while the company had 144 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: first started launching monetization strategies in twenty two years earlier, 145 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be until two thousand eighteen that Twitter would 146 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: post its first profitable quarter. So while they were generating revenue, 147 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: they were by no means profitable, and yet Twitter was 148 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: scooping up lots of other companies all along the way, 149 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: so that was kind of a crazy thing. In fact, 150 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: that's one of the elements that people point to a 151 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: Twitter saying that perhaps this is a company that has 152 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: a history of questionable management decisions. Uying at this point 153 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: was a jang Kee Unstable app that the three colleagues 154 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: had basically only really shared with their close friends, and 155 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: so they're close friends were acting as beta testers. They 156 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: were trying out the app, creating videos, sending them to 157 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: each other, and then giving feedback on what their experience 158 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: was like. And initially the app had some pretty interesting 159 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: limitations too. For example, at first the app only allowed 160 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: you to record with the back facing camera on an iPhone, 161 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: and you know, with your basic smartphone, the higher resolution 162 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: camera is on the back, so at least that means 163 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: you've got the better of the cameras as your camera 164 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: for your vines. But it also meant that if you 165 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: want to make a vine of yourself, like in selfie mode, 166 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: you would have to do it with the screen facing 167 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: away from you because only the back camera would work. 168 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: So it's really hard to tell if you had framed 169 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: the video up properly, and for a video with multiple cuts, 170 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 1: if you screwed up a later cut, like you get 171 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: your first cut, you know, your first, your first segment, 172 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: it's perfect. You start your second and something goes wrong, 173 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, whatever it may be, maybe you flubb a line, 174 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: maybe a light goes out, whatever it is, you would 175 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: have to go back to the beginning and start all 176 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: over again, or you would just have to live with 177 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: whatever the mistake was in the video and send it 178 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: out that way, you could not delete a single segment 179 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: and just redo that segment. You had to start from 180 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: the beginning. Twitter saw potential in this product. The acquisition 181 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: would bring the three Vine co founders over to Twitter itself. 182 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: There they would continue for a time working on the 183 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: app with the goal of launching it under the Twitter umbrella. 184 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: It also meant signing over the exclusive rights to their 185 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: creation to Twitter. So they took the deal, and uh, 186 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: like Lando Calrisian, some of them felt that that deal 187 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: was getting worse all the time. I'll explain more when 188 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: we come back from this quick break. So Twitter acquires 189 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: Vine in October two thousand twelve. Keep in mind the 190 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: app has not launched yet. People are starting to hear 191 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: about it because it had some buzz. I mean, Twitter 192 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: heard about it, but it was in a closed beta, 193 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: so it's not like it was in widespread distribution. What 194 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: followed Twitter's acquisition was three months of intense development and 195 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: in January. In fact, on January two thousand thirteen, the 196 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: Vine app would officially launch on the Apple App Store, 197 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: and it became popular fairly quickly. In fact, it hit 198 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: the top of Apple's charts by April. For the free 199 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: apps available on iOS, Android users would have to wait 200 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: until June second of two thousand thirteen, and Windows Phone, 201 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: which was still a thing back then, would get its 202 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: version in November two thousand thirteen. Now, the launch of 203 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 1: Vine gave birth to a really wild and weird era 204 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: of user creativity. Some vines were pretty straightforward. You might 205 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: get a sixth second clip of someone singing or playing 206 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: a song, for example, and that actually helped launch a 207 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: few careers in the music business. You had people who 208 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: got discovered because they had created a viral vine of 209 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: them singing some popular song. Other vines were comedy bits, 210 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: usually in bell with fun edits to emphasize an absurd punchline. 211 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 1: A few folks got really good at creating six second 212 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: long videos that used edit to editing these cuts to 213 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: create effects that would actually be impossible to pull off 214 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: in the real world. Like you might be running toward 215 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: a wall and then because of a cut, it looks 216 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: like you've just passed through the wall by magic right 217 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: just magically telepoint to the other side of the wall. 218 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: That was something that was possible if you were really 219 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: good at framing up your video and you had a 220 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: clever edit in there. A lot of these would take 221 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: a lot of trial and error to get just right, 222 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: to get the angle right, to get the timing right, 223 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: and the payoff was you would get these six second videos. 224 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: They're really awesome. I mean, six seconds isn't a long time, 225 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 1: but it also means it's not enough time to get bored. Right, 226 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: if you watch a vine that's a bad vine, don't worry, 227 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: it's over in six seconds and you can watch something else. 228 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: And the really good ones made you appreciate how much 229 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: work must have gone in to making just those six 230 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: seconds of entertainment. Now, creating a good vine took imagination, 231 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: it took skill, at least took some sort of demonstrable 232 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: talent on screen. There were some arguably very dumb videos 233 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: that became viral on Vine. Does anyone out there remember 234 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: the series of vines featuring comedian Will Sasso inexplicably spitting 235 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: up whole lemons. There was an entire string of them, 236 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: so a lot of ones that hit it big showed 237 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: incredible ingenuity. I don't know if the limit thing showed ingenuity, 238 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: It certainly showed absurdity, and I will admit that at 239 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: the time I thought they were hilarious. I actually rewatched 240 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: them in preparation for this episode, and as I rewatched them, 241 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: I thought boy passed Jonathan had a difference it's of 242 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: humor than current Jonathan does. Under Twitter's ownership, Vine got 243 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: some new features, so over to time the app evolved. Uh. 244 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: For example, eventually creators were able to put their content 245 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: into different categories so that it was easier to discover 246 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: their work. So instead of it just being a catch 247 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: all where you go to Vine and like all the 248 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: vines you're seeing are just random videos, you could explore 249 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: specific subcategories, so stuff like comedy. You know, all the 250 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: would be SNL writers could file their vines and comedy, 251 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: all the editing geniuses can make crazy effects and put 252 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: their work under the category of art and experimental that 253 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: kind of thing. They also had dedicated categories for things 254 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: like cats and then dogs, which I appreciate because you know, 255 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: if you're a if you're a dog person, you might 256 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: be just tired of all the cat videos online. You 257 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: just want to go straight to the puppies. Another big 258 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: update was the long awaited support for front facing cameras 259 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: that made it far easier to create selfie style videos, 260 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: so that did emerge Under Twitter's ownership of Vine. Twitter 261 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: also introduced a retweet like feature, in fact, it was 262 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: called revine, where users could post vines that they loved 263 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: to their own feeds and help boost the signal. They 264 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: could even post it to other platforms. At one point. 265 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: Vine also introduced a web based version, so you didn't 266 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: have to just use your smartphone too, you know, search 267 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: all the vines and watch them. You could actually do 268 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: it from your desktop computer. It also introduced a counter 269 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: that would register every single loop of a video, so 270 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: it was a loop counter, and that definitely helped with 271 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: engagement too, because I don't know about you, but if 272 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: I see that there's a video that has a huge 273 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: number of views under it, and I'm already kind of 274 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: interested in the topic. I'm more likely to click on 275 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: the video because the implication there is this video is 276 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: one that's worth watching. Look at how many people have 277 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: seen it. Now we all know that that's not necessarily 278 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: the case. Sometimes you watch one of those videos you think, 279 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: while this was garbage, but you know it's it's kind 280 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 1: of a natural inclination. You see something that's popular, you 281 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: get curious about it, so you check it out for yourself. 282 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: At its height, Vine saw two hundred million monthly active users. 283 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: It was a rousing success from that perspective, with brands 284 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: and celebrities jumping onto Vine in order to take advantage 285 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: of the apps reach, because obviously, anytime we have any 286 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 1: kind of communication tool that ends up being remotely successful, 287 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: you typically see people try and take advantage of it 288 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: in order to extend their own brand, whether that's a 289 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: company or a celebrity. I did not, despite the fact 290 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 1: that I arguably have a brand, something that's difficult for 291 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: me to reconcile on a day to day basis, I 292 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: never got into Vine. I mean I watched them, but 293 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: I never created them, uh, which probably explain pans my 294 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: limited reach anyway, it was also making brand new celebrities. 295 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: Not only were celebrities making use of Vine, Vine was 296 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: creating celebrities itself, like the Paul Brothers and a lot 297 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: of popular Vine creators went on to create even bigger 298 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: success in other venues from music to Twitch, to YouTube, etcetera. 299 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: As Vine was launching on Android, Facebook, the company, so 300 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: we would call it meta today, was doing what Facebook 301 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: does best. And by that I mean the company is 302 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: famous for either acquiring any competition out there that could 303 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 1: potentially pull eyeballs away from Facebook products, or it launches 304 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: its own version of whatever the popular thing is in 305 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,239 Speaker 1: an attempt to grab some of those eyeballs. So in 306 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: this case, Facebook, in the form of Instagram, introduced a 307 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: way to record short videos and then share them through Instagram. 308 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: So this became uh kind of a competitor to Vine. 309 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: In fact, a lot of people called it out as 310 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 1: a blatantly obvious attempt of Facebook trying to get in 311 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: on Vine's game. Now, this spurred of back and forth 312 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: kind of tug of war between Twitter slash Vine and 313 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: Facebook slash Instagram. Instagram initially allowed users to record videos 314 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: that were up to fifteen seconds long, so more than 315 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: twice the length of Vine. A little bit later, Instagram 316 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: increase that to a full sixty seconds, so you could 317 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: record an entire minute of video. Twitter slash Vine responded 318 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: by allowing a certain subset of creators, like some of 319 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: the more popular creators on the platform, to record videos 320 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: that were up to one hundred forty seconds long. And 321 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: you might say, well, that seems like an arbitrary number 322 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: of seconds, but then you need to remember that at 323 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: at that time, back in those days, Twitter had a 324 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: strict character limit of one forty This was before Twitter 325 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: stended that to to eight, so you can only post 326 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 1: Twitter messages that were up to a hundred forty characters long. 327 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: So it was kind of consistent, right, a hundred forty 328 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: characters videos could be a hundred forty seconds cute. Another 329 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,719 Speaker 1: competitor to Vine at this time was Snapchat. Snapchat had 330 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: actually launched before Hoffman, Yusupov, and Kroll got the idea 331 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: for Vine, so that had already been out. But Snapchat 332 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: started as a a photo sharing app where the photos 333 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: would disappear after a certain amount of time, and Snapchat 334 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: then introduced the ability to take videos of up to 335 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: ten seconds in length towards the end of two thousand twelve, 336 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: so still before Vine even launched. By two thousand fifteen, 337 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: Snapchat was adding other features to its video creation tools 338 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: to set it apart from Instagram and Vine, which created 339 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: more competition in the space. And I think there were 340 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,479 Speaker 1: two major factors that ultimately doomed Vine. One was that 341 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: while Twitter added some features to the app, the company 342 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: never really put full support behind Vine. They never made 343 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: it a leader in the video sharing space once competition 344 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: began to ramp up. You know, they enjoyed the number 345 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: one spot briefly, but they didn't do anything to hold 346 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: onto that, or they didn't do enough. I guess they 347 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: did do stuff, they just didn't do enough. But another 348 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: reason that it was doomed was because of something Twitter 349 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: had been struggling with since, which was finding an effective 350 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: way to monetize the product. Creators were starting to migrate 351 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: to other platforms, with some of them going to YouTube 352 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: where they could create longer videos and see direct benefits 353 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: from monetization. You know, Vine, the best way of of 354 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: really profiting from it was to leverage your popularity to 355 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: make money in some secondary way. You know, maybe you 356 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: get a sponsorship deal. Maybe someone discovers you, but you're 357 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: not really making money from Vine itself, and in late 358 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen, Twitter announced it would be shutting down 359 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: Vine in the coming months. Initially, Twitter would keep vines 360 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: available for people to search and to watch, but the 361 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: ability to upload new content would go away. Twitter did 362 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: attempt to resuscitate Vine in two thousand seventeen by integrating 363 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,959 Speaker 1: the features of Vine into Twitter. The company launched a 364 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: new app called Vine Camera, which would allow users to 365 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: create Vine style videos, but there was no longer a 366 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: Vine app that you would use to share those videos too, 367 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: so instead you essentially had two options. You could either 368 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: keep your videos on your your Vine cameras camera roll, 369 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: where I guess you could enjoy it yourself whenever you liked, 370 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: or you could share your new Vine style video on Twitter. 371 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: The Vine community died out pretty quickly. Creators had already 372 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: started to move to other platforms, and Twitter's lackluster support 373 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: really meant that there wasn't much there there. Twitter did 374 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: allow folks to continue to access an archive of Vine 375 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: videos until two thousand nineteen, and at that point Twitter 376 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 1: even shut down the archive, and Vine itself was dead. 377 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: There's some vines that that live on because people downloaded 378 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: them and then shared them to YouTube, but otherwise they're 379 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: lost to the the mists of time. We're gonna take 380 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: another quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about 381 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: what happened with the Vine co founders, as well as 382 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: a little bit about Twitter's plan to bring Vine back. 383 00:23:51,119 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: But first let's take a break. Okay, let's have a 384 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: quick rundown on what happened to vines three co founders. 385 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: And before I get into it, I do want to 386 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: give a trigger warning couple of them. Actually this story 387 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: includes tragedy. I will warn you again when I get there. 388 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: I'll save that for the third of the three co founders. 389 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 1: So first up is Dom Hoffman. Initially, he served as 390 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: the lead general manager for Vine while he was at Twitter, 391 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: but he made the decision to leave Twitter in two 392 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: thousand fourteen to go and work on another startup. For 393 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: several years, he teased something that he was calling v 394 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: two and in he announced Bite b y t E, 395 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: which was a short form video app that would let 396 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: folks create, edit, and share short, looped videos. Sounds familiar, 397 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: I bet Bite went into a closed beta in two 398 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen, it became an official app both on Google 399 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: and uh an Apple. At this point, whendows Phone was 400 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: bye bye in early a year later. In fact, almost 401 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: exactly a year after the app launched on Apple and Google, 402 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: another short form video app company called Clash acquired Bite. 403 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: Very curious about that. I didn't find a whole lot 404 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: of information about that because it didn't dig too deeply 405 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: into this part. But I do want to follow up 406 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: on that because I wonder what Dom Hoffman's thought process was, 407 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: because he had already gone through this before, where he 408 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: had sold Vine to Twitter, now Bite to Clash. Clash 409 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: and Bite would ultimately merge together. Initially it was an 410 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: app that was still called Clash, but later it got 411 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: rebranded into one called Huddles. Next up, we have russ Yusupov. 412 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: I think I might have said us of prov previously. 413 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: There is no r in his last name up, So 414 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: if I did do that, which I suspect I did, 415 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: my apologies. When Twitter announced it was shutting down Vine, 416 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:18,959 Speaker 1: Yusupov famously tweeted, don't sell your company, which that was 417 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: the person who expressed regret that I alluded to earlier 418 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: in this episode. Now at that point, Usupov had already 419 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: left Twitter himself. In late two thousand fifteen, Recode reported 420 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: that Yusupov was fired as part of widespread layoffs. So 421 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: it wasn't like he was fired for any specific reason, 422 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: but rather Twitter was downsizing and he was part of that. 423 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: But he then went on to co found a company 424 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: called Intermedia Labs. This company would launch an app called 425 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: h Q Trivia in the summer of two thousand seventeen. 426 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: I feel like I could do a full episode on 427 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: HQ Trivia because whole golly that story. If you're unfa 428 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: emilier with HQ Trivia, the way it worked was this, 429 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: you would use an app to tune into a live 430 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: trivia broadcast, so it was happening in real time. You 431 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: would join a crowd of however many other players as 432 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: you try and answer increasingly difficult trivia questions. I think 433 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: there were twelve per game, and if you made it 434 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: all the way through, then you got a share of 435 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: the cash prize for that contest. How much you got 436 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: depended upon not just the purse for the game, but 437 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: how many other people made it all the way through, right, 438 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: because he would just divide it up at that point 439 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: in early HQ Trivia shut down. This was in February 440 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: of investors refused to pour more money into it, and 441 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: without the money then there was no way to continue 442 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: supporting it, so it temporarily went down. The app had 443 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: seen a huge spike in popularity early on when it 444 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: launched in two thousand seventeen, but even a year later 445 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: that had dropped significantly. The viralty had worn out, it 446 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: had dropped and then plateaued to a much smaller user base, 447 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: and Yusupov was ultimately able to bring the game back 448 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: online in a slightly different incarnation after securing another deal, 449 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: but it's not really the same experience as it once 450 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: was now. Within that time frame of Yusupov leaving Twitter, 451 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: found co founding this company, the launch of HQ Trivia, 452 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: it's subsequent shutting down and then relaunch, there was scandal 453 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: and a tragedy that we have to talk about that 454 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: involves the third vine, co founder, Colin Crawl, And this 455 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: is the bit that has the trigger warnings associated with it, 456 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: a couple of them. They relate to sexual harassment and 457 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: the issue of drug overdose. So if you don't want 458 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: to hear any right totally understand. I just want to 459 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: give that trigger warning out before we get into it now. 460 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: Unlike Hoffman and Yusupov, or possibly Yusupov, Kroll didn't leave 461 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: Twitter on his own terms. It's possible that Yusupov also 462 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: was laid off. Recode reported that, but other reports say 463 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: Yusupov chose to leave Twitter once it became clear that 464 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: Vine was not going to get the support he felt 465 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: it needed. Either way, Kroll definitely did not leave Twitter 466 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: by choice. According to multiple news outlets, he was fired 467 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: from Twitter. Why was he fired, Well, the main reason, 468 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: according to all these sources is that he was just 469 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,719 Speaker 1: bad at his job. He had a bad management style, 470 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: so however he was managing people, was rubbing everyone the 471 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: wrong way. But on top of that, there were multiple 472 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: reports that he was making women at Twitter very uneasy, 473 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: that he was being creepy and creating a hostile work environment. 474 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: A lot of the language points at him engaging in 475 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: various forms of sexual harassment, although nothing goes so far 476 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: as to say that outright, at least nothing that I 477 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: came across, you know, maybe like third hand reports kind 478 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: of go there. But the stuff I saw that was 479 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: reporting directly upon his his leaving of Twitter. And you 480 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: know how this came up because it came up during 481 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: due diligence when companies investors were looking into intermediate labs. 482 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: That's where you start seeing these reports that he made 483 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: women uneasy. So again, at the very least, he made 484 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: a hostile work environment, and it was bad enough for 485 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: Twitter to give him his walking papers in two thousand 486 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: and fourteen. Again, whether that was because of the harassment 487 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: issue or if it was over because of bad management, 488 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: I don't know, Like what the the straw that broke 489 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: the camel's back, so to speak, I don't know what 490 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: that was. I will say it's pretty rare to read 491 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: about companies firing people for being bad managers. In Silicon Valley. 492 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: There are plenty of bad managers out there, and you 493 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,719 Speaker 1: don't hear about most of them getting fired. So this 494 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: was kind of an outlier. But Krall went on to 495 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: co found Intermedia Labs with russ Yusupov, so the two 496 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: of them made the company together. So he was also 497 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: involved with this company that launched HQ Trivia. In two 498 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen, Kroll and Yusupov got into a really nasty 499 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: battle for control of the company, Yusupov had been CEO, 500 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: and Kroll had reached a point where he was in 501 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: disagreement with the way Yusupov was was running the company. 502 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: HQ Trivia had already started to come down from its 503 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: viral hit from the year before, so again in ten 504 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: the was a very different picture than so things were 505 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: uncertain and the two co founders disagreed on the direction 506 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: that the company should take, and specifically on what to 507 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: do about HQ Trivia. Kroll then reportedly found a sympathetic 508 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: board member, and with that board member they were able 509 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: to force Yusupov to resign as CEO and Kroll took 510 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,479 Speaker 1: his place. So now Colin Kroll became CEO of Intermedia Labs. 511 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: An employee had actually filed a complaint against Kroll before 512 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: he became CEO, calling his management style aggressive, So this 513 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: didn't relate to, you know, sexual harassment claims, but it 514 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: did say that Kroll was not a good manager, which 515 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: again was what we had heard when he left Twitter. 516 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: But despite that hr filed report, the board approved Colin 517 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,479 Speaker 1: Crawl to move into the CEO position. This was September two, 518 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: eighteen three months later, he be dead on December seventeen, 519 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, news outlets reported that police had found 520 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: Colin Kroll unresponsive and dead inside his New York apartment 521 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: when they were called in to do a wellness check 522 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: on him. Found in his apartment was an envelope containing 523 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: white powder, which obviously led to suspicions that Kroll had 524 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: died from an overdose. Those suspicions were later confirmed when 525 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: the medical examiner revealed that traces of heroin, cocaine, and 526 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: fetnel were found in his system, among other things. In 527 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: the wake of Kroll's death, Yusupov came back to Intermedia 528 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: Labs and was reinstated as CEO. That whole story is 529 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: quite dramatic and will be part of a documentary that 530 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: I believe is slated to come out next year. So 531 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: we should see a whole documentary about HQ Trivia, I think, 532 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: is the way they're they're framing it. So they're probably 533 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: looking at, you know, how successful it was upon launch. 534 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 1: This really dramatic turn as two co founders turn against 535 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: each other, the subsequent tragic death of one of them, 536 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: and then the slow, agonizing fading of the of the 537 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: game over the following two years, so that's what's happened 538 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:28,439 Speaker 1: with Vine's co founders. As for Vine itself, Musk does 539 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: seem interested in bringing it back, and in a world 540 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: that already has TikTok in it as well as Snapchat, Instagram, 541 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: Reel's YouTube shorts. I really wonder if Vine could make 542 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: a comeback and carve out a place of its own. 543 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: I suspect the move is one of those that's seen 544 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: as necessary because of Twitter wants to attract more users 545 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: to the platform. It's got to do something in order 546 00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: to make that happen. If we're to believe the numerous 547 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: people who have said that they're leaving Twitter. Now that 548 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 1: Musk is in charge, the platform is going to require 549 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: all the help it can get. For the record, I 550 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: suspect that a ton of people who talk about leaving 551 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 1: are not actually going to leave, a significant fewer number 552 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 1: will actually leave the platform, But we'll have to wait 553 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: and see. As for myself, I am very rarely on Twitter. 554 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: I'm mostly just there to check the tech stuff hs 555 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: w handle to see if you've reached out, to give 556 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: me suggestions for future topics of episodes. And that's how 557 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: we end this episode, reminding you that if you do 558 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: want me to talk about something specific, One way is 559 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: to send me a message on Twitter. So if you're 560 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: on Twitter, if you're still there, if you haven't walked away, 561 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: then you can send a message to tech Stuff HSW 562 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: That's how you can get in touch with me. The 563 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: other way to get in touch is to download the 564 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, which is free to download and use. 565 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: You can navigate over to tech Stuff by putting tech 566 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: Stuff in the search field. It will pop on over 567 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: to the podcast page and there you'll see a little microphone. 568 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: If you click on that microphone, you can record a 569 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: message up to thirty seconds in length. Let me know 570 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: what you would like me to talk about in the future. 571 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: You can also let me know if you would like 572 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: me to include your message in a future episode. I 573 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: do not do that by default. I will only do 574 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: it if you tell me it's okay. So if you 575 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: would rather not have your voice heard on a future podcast, 576 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: that's totally fine. Just you know, don't tell me I 577 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: can use it and I won't. That's it. I hope 578 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: you are all well, and I hope you enjoyed this 579 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: look back on Vine and influential Flash in the Pan 580 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: app that may see it returns in the near future, 581 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: and I'll talk to you again really soon. Text Stuff 582 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: is an I heart Radio production. For more podcasts from 583 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 584 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: or where are you listen to your favorite shows?