1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Hi, it's Jorge and Daniel here. And this holiday season, 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: if you're looking for a gift for yourself, for a friend, 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: or for your your family, why not get him the 4 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: Gift of Answers about the Universe. To check out our 5 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: new book Frequently Asked Questions about the Universe, you can 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: find details at Universe f a Q dot com. Thanks 7 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: for supporting the podcast. Happy holidays everyone. Hey Daniel, what's 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: your favorite thing about going camping? Oh? There's so much 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: to love, you know, I really enjoy being out in nature. 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: I like taking a break from our urban routines. But 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: I guess mostly I love being out there under the 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: dark skies. I thought you would say s'mores, because you know, 13 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: you're smashing two kinds of candy together in your particle 14 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: physicist the confection collider. Yeah, that's also delicious. No, you're right, 15 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: I think you know, being out in the night sky 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: is amazing, right, sort of reminds you of all the 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: amazing stuff that's out there. Yeah, and it feels like 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: you kind of have to get further and further away 19 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,559 Speaker 1: from civilization to find those really good dark skies where 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: you can see thousands and thousands of stars. It's pretty gorgeous. 21 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 1: How about you, what's your favorite thing about camping other 22 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: than some'mores? I like sleeping in my own bed. What 23 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: you bring your own bed camping now, But when I 24 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: go camping, it really makes me appreciate sleeping in my 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: own bed, so, you know, overall and improves my quality 26 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: of life. I guess that puts us to sleep. I 27 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: am hor handmade cartoonists and the creator of PhD comics. Hi, 28 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor of 29 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: physics that you see Irvine, and I can no longer 30 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: sleep comfortably on the ground. You cannot, unlike your other 31 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: physicist ancestors. Unlike twenty year old Daniel, who's happy to 32 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: sleep on a concrete floor or the ground anywhere under 33 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: the stars, I could get a good night's sleep anywhere. 34 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: These days, I just need my own bed. What do 35 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: you do when you go camping? Then? I just don't 36 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: sleep very well, don't sleep at all camping. That's why 37 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: you stay up all night watching the stars. So it 38 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: all works out. There's no point going in the tent. 39 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: We're not getting any sleep anyway, so let's just stay 40 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: up and eat more. S'mores. It's more of them. But 41 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: then do you walk to your car and sleep in 42 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: your car? I just wait and sleep it all back 43 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: when I get home. But welcome to our podcast. Daniel 44 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: and Jorge explained the university production of My Heart Radio, 45 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: in which we feed you the delicious combination of knowledge 46 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: and confusion smushed together into an intellectual s'more. We dive 47 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: into the squishy heart of everything that humanity doesn't know 48 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: about this incredible universe. We find ourselves in how big 49 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 1: it is, where it ends, when it might end, how 50 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: it started, what it's all made out of, and what 51 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: it all means. We surround that with delicious layers of 52 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: chocolate and little bits of understanding that we have gleaned 53 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: in our centuries or millennia of probing this universe, and 54 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: explain all of it to you and especially hungry today, Daniel, 55 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: or are you just looking forward to Halloween? I'm thinking 56 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: about my next camping trip and how that's moore is 57 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: really going to get me through the night? And which 58 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: one is the confusion? Is it marshmallow or chocolate? And 59 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: which one is knowledge? I think confusion is definitely marshmallow, 60 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 1: because you know it gets pretty sticky. You can dive 61 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: into the heart of it and it just sort of 62 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: covers everything, and once you start asking questions, you feel like, wow, 63 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: we're maybe confused about everything, the same way that marshmallow 64 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: never really gets off anything. Once it's sticks to you, right, 65 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: and once it catches fire, it's all over. Might as 66 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: well throw the whole thing in the trash. I wish 67 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: the confusion was as delicious toasted as marshmallows are. And 68 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: what's the cracker is the cracker of funding? I guess 69 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: to hold it all together and squeeze things out. That's right, 70 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: Thank you funding agencies for being the Graham cracker in 71 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: this terribly, terribly tortured analogy. Let's put that analogy to rest. 72 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: Let's eat it up. But yeah, it is a big 73 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: and beautiful universe that's out there. There's a lot for 74 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: us to see and explore and learn from only if 75 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: we can see it. And that might be changing soon. 76 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: That's right. So much about the nature of the universe 77 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: comes just from information that has arrived here on Earth 78 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: from the cosmos. Those brave little photons that have been 79 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: flying through the universe for millions or sometimes billions of years, 80 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: have revealed to us the nature of things out there, 81 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: the grand scope of it all, the incredible majesty of 82 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: galaxies and galactic clusters and even the Big Bang. We 83 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: could learn none of that if we couldn't see out 84 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: there in the night sky. As we build better and 85 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: better telescopes and new kinds of ways to observe the 86 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: night sky, we learn more and more about this information 87 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,239 Speaker 1: that's washing over us, but only if we can still 88 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: see it. Yeah, it's pretty amazing to think that we've 89 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: learned so much just floating in this little rock in 90 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: one corner of the galaxy, which is in one corner 91 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: of the universe. You know, it's sort of like, you know, 92 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: learning about whole world by floating on a little raft 93 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: in the middle of the ocean, right, Like, how much 94 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: would you be able to piece together about how the 95 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: whole world works? Yeah, Or if you like lived in 96 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: a lighthouse and never left, but you had a bunch 97 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: of powerful telescopes and all you could do was buying 98 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: people and look out your windows. It's incredible, You're right, 99 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: how much we have learned about the nature of things 100 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: without going anywhere. Really. I mean, we sent a few 101 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: robots just around our neighborhood. But we have a pretty 102 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: good sense for the shape of the galaxy and even 103 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: much much larger objects without ever having been there ourselves, 104 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: of course, And all of that relies on being able 105 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: to see the night sky, the fact that the universe 106 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: is mostly transparent, and that information can travel all the 107 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: way through the cosmos and get to us. Yeah, you 108 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:46,679 Speaker 1: make it sound like science is some kind of stalker, 109 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: Like we're stalking the universe. Are we going to get 110 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: arrested by the cosmic police. I don't know how much 111 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: intellectual privacy rights the universe has, you know. I think 112 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: it's signed the terms of use, and so it basically 113 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: gave away all its rights, right, I mean it's it's 114 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: sitting out there naked basically, right. I mean, it's not 115 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: our fault that we can't look away, that's right. We're 116 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: deep inside of it. I mean it's swallowed us, and 117 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: so what can you expect, you know? Yeah, it's like 118 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: that movie Inner Space, you know, where they shrink down 119 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: and they're flying around inside that body. In this case, 120 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: I am Dennis plays. I guess somebody's got to have 121 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: a chin. But yeah, it is a pretty big and 122 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: wonderful universe, and it all depends on our view of it. 123 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: With without our view of it, we we will be 124 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: able to tell very little about the universe. Like if 125 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: our planet was covered in dense clouds, or if we 126 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: were in a far off corner of the galaxy with 127 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: nothing around us, we would be pretty ignorant about what's 128 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, we are pretty lucky that the universe 129 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: is mostly transparent, that we're not sitting inside of a 130 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: huge dust cloud, and that the solar wind, for example, 131 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: is mostly invisible, that that information mostly gets to us. 132 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: But you know what if it couldn't. And you know, 133 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: sometimes when you're standing outside and looking up at the stars, 134 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: you're excited because you see stars, but sometimes you see 135 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: something else, like maybe you see a plane go by, 136 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: or even more exciting, you see the space station go by, 137 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: or some really high up satellite flowed by. That also 138 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: feels exciting sometimes, Oh yeah, yeah, because you're seeing like 139 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: a bit of human technology. You're like, wow, look we 140 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: are out there in space. That's cool. But also there's 141 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: another side of that. Yeah, leave it to humans to 142 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: ruin everything basically as usual, even the night sky. We're 143 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: going to ruin that soon. That's right, because you know, 144 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: you look up at the nice sky, you see one 145 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: satellite go by, No big deal, right, Well, what if 146 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: there are two satellites, or ten satellites, or tens of 147 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: thousands of satellites, it might interfere with your ability to 148 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: see what's out there past our neighborhood, deep deep in 149 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: the universe to answer some of our basic questions. Yeah, 150 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: bad for science, but good for some fun nighttime viewing. 151 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: Then you make it sound pretty exciting to see a 152 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: whole bunch of shooting stars going on at the same time. 153 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: Sometimes when I'm out with my kids, they're more excited 154 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: to see satellites than to see stars, because you know, 155 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: the stars just sort of sit there, and the satellites 156 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: so look that one's moving or blinking, are doing something, 157 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: So I get it why they're more exciting. But you know, 158 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: the real deep mysteries in the universe, of course, are 159 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: contained in the light from stars and other crazy things. 160 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: And secretly you're hoping maybe that is the UFO that 161 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: we've been waiting for. That's right, I've been signaling them 162 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: desperately with my campfire. Why can't anybody see that? What 163 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: are you doing sending smoke? Signals to the aliens. But yeah, 164 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: it does seem to be an increasing problem, this idea 165 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: that there are more and more space man made space 166 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: objects out in the night sky. And so today on 167 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: the program, we'll be asking the question, how will starlink 168 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: affect astronomy? Wow, it seems like astronomy can be spoiled. 169 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: It can be spoiled. It's sort of delicate, and this 170 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: is something we went through years ago when we had 171 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: this invention of LED lights, which made lighting much brighter 172 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: and more efficient and cheaper. And then people started installing 173 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 1: LED light everywhere, and all of a sudden, there was 174 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: a lot more light pollution than there was before. And 175 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, if there's lights nearby, then it makes it 176 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: harder to observe the night sky. And astronomers spoke up 177 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, could we get some like shielding 178 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: on those lights or could we limit them to one frequency? 179 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: And we were able to adjust and to redesign those 180 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: lights so they mostly pointed down, they were mostly yellow 181 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,599 Speaker 1: instead of being broadbant and white, and we're able to 182 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: sort of save astronomy. But this isn't the first time that, 183 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: you know, consumer technology has sort of stumbled into the 184 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: otherwise pristine night sky and almost munged it up. Wow, 185 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: I didn't know that. So as humans are, civilization has 186 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: gone and brighter and brighter and at night. Oh yes, 187 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,079 Speaker 1: if you went back to the fifteen hundreds, for example, 188 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be that hard to find a dark night sky. 189 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: Like our cities are much much brighter than they were 190 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: hundreds of years ago or even a hundred years ago 191 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: or fifty years ago. And that just has to do 192 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: with access to power and the cheapness and the brightness 193 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: of our light sources. So this idea that Starlink might 194 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: affect astronomy star our link is some some sort of 195 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: satellite plan. Right when you think of a satellite, you 196 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: probably think of like a single object, you know, a 197 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: big piece of technology floating in space. But there's this 198 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: new idea to launch constellations of satellites that have hundreds, 199 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: sometimes even thousands of little parts that are floating out 200 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: there in space. And so this is sort of a 201 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 1: brand new idea and people are excited about for all 202 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: sorts of applications, but it has downsides, and astronomers are 203 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: very concerned that the night sky might just be filled 204 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: with satellites in the future, making it maybe impossible to 205 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 1: learn secrets of the universe. Oh man, it's like you're 206 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: blocking the view. Get out of the way exactly. This 207 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: is something that's for all humanity, that all humans have 208 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: enjoyed looking up at the night sky, and as we 209 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 1: develop our technology, we need to make sure that we're 210 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: appursing this in a sensible way, that we have like 211 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: regulations and rules in place so the individuals can't spoil 212 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: it for the whole species humans. This is why we 213 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: can't have nice things or no nice things either. But 214 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: we were wondering how many people out there and new 215 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: this idea of giant mega satellite constellations otherwise known as 216 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: starlink is one name for it, and so we're wondering 217 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: how many people knew about them and how they might 218 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: affect astronomy. So Daniel went out there into the internet 219 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 1: to ask people this question. So thanks to everybody who's 220 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 1: willing to participate. For those of you who have been 221 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 1: listening to the podcast for years but never phoned in, 222 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: please feel welcome. No pressure, of course, but we'd like 223 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: to hear your voice on the podcast, so please write 224 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: to me two questions at Daniel and Jorge dot Com. 225 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: Think about it for a second. What do you think 226 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: putting thousands of satellites up into this guy will do 227 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: to astronomy. Here's what people have to say. Most likely, 228 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: if they will pass in the field of view of 229 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: a telescope, people have to affect with something. I believe 230 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 1: that the Starlink project will affect astronomy by completely changing 231 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: our visual perspective on space. It's gonna add man made 232 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: light pollution, and we're going to need to remap what 233 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: we can visually see from Earth into outer space. Starlink 234 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: is a program from SpaceX to launch a lot of 235 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: Internet satellites, which I think we already know that it's 236 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: going to make it a lot. How it hired her 237 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: to study stars and stuff very poorly. I saw a 238 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: train of twenty nine Starling satellites the other night, and 239 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: I can't imagine if my telescope were aimed directly in 240 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: that line. I think there's a lot of worry, but 241 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: how many satellites they want to put up, and how 242 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: it totally tips of scales and terms of space to 243 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: breathe maybe a point where he never come back from. 244 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: Starlink has thousands of small satellites all giving off radio waves, 245 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: so they might interfere with ground based observations, perhaps creating 246 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: the need for more space telescopes. All right, not a 247 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: good outlook or for astronomy, that's right. But this is 248 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: something people are definitely aware of, right. This is not 249 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: a situation where people have no idea what we're talking about. 250 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: This has definitely been in the public conversation. Yeah. Interesting, Yeah, 251 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: nobody here said what is starlink? Which is honestly what 252 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: my answer would have been. It's kind of a new idea, 253 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: and I know it's been in the data a lot 254 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: because people like Elon Musk are into it or are 255 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: are applying for it in Amazon as well. So maybe 256 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: step us through this, Daniel, what is starlink and what 257 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: is a mega constellation of satellites? Starlink is an example 258 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: of mega constellations where instead of having one or two 259 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: or maybe even ten, like a small number of very specialized, 260 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: very expensive satellites, instead you mass produce a bunch of 261 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: smaller satellites so that it's cheaper, so you take advantage 262 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: of the economy of scale, and instead of having just 263 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: a few up there, you launched thousands or tens of thousands. 264 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: And one application of this is, for example, to provide 265 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: internet coverage. There are lots of place is in the world, 266 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: especially poor areas and rural areas, where it's just not 267 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: economically feasible or commercially attractive to run fiber optics or 268 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: even copper cables to all of the homes, and so 269 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: to get Internet coverage to those folks, it's attractive to 270 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: build a satellite Internet system where the information gets beam 271 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,479 Speaker 1: to space and then down to a dish on your house. Wow, 272 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: so you would be signing up for space Internet, not 273 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: just Internet, but like space Internet. Yes, space Internet exactly, 274 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: and just like you get satellite TV. But that's one direction, 275 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: all right, You're getting information beamed down to you from 276 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: a satellite. This is too directional. You download a picture 277 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: on Facebook and it goes to a satellite and down 278 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: to your house and you're at a comment on that picture. 279 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: He goes back up to the satellite and then back 280 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: down to your Internet service provider, and so this is 281 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: two way communication with a satellite in order to get Internet. Well, 282 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: so yourselfie would go out into space and back and 283 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: maybe back again. Right, it would bounce on Earth and space. 284 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: That's right, And it doesn't only just hit the satellite, right, 285 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: You're beam is sort of broad, so the satellite picks 286 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: it up, but it also goes past the satellite out 287 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: into deep space. So any selfie you said via satellite 288 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: internet is also going to the aliens. So think about that. 289 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: And next time you send a you know, racy photo 290 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: to your friends via satellite internet, you're speaking for the 291 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: whole human race there people, Yeah, yeah, yeah, please make 292 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: it look good. But I guess one question is, like, 293 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: you know, we have cell phone towers. Are you saying 294 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: like we don't have cellphone coverage everywhere? It sort of 295 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: seems like we have a lot of cellphone coverage. That's true, 296 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: We do have pretty good coverage at least in the 297 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: US in a lot of the Western world for cellphone towers. 298 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: This is sort of an alternative approach. I think there 299 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: are lots of places where we don't have coverage, and 300 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: so this would give you, you you know, internet access rather 301 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: than just cellular service. All right, So then and you 302 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: said there are small satellites. How small are we talking about? 303 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: Is it like LaunchBox size, like palm size? How big 304 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: are these satellites? I think they're about the size of 305 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: a bed, for example, like a mattress, but they're pretty small, 306 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: you know, they're like five pounds or kilos each. And 307 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: the idea is not just that you could mass produce them, 308 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: but that they could fly in low earth orbit. You know. 309 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: One issue with satellite internet is the latency. Most of 310 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: the satellite Internet systems that we have right now are 311 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: in geosynchronous orbit, So single satellite is really far up there, 312 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: but it sort of floats over the same patch of 313 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: Earth all the time, and so it's sort of like 314 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: always there in the sky above you. But they're far away. 315 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: Like geosynchronous orbit means you're like thirty five thousand kilometers 316 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: up there, and it takes a little while for the 317 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: light to go all the way up to the satellite 318 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: and back. If instead you have satellites in low earth orbit, 319 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: like five dred kilometers, would be much faster. But the 320 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: problem is that it's very complicated to have them be geosynchronous, 321 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: and so essentially what you need instead of having a 322 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: few satellites that are fixed, you need like a big 323 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: constellation of satellites so they can pass the signals back 324 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: and forth to each other. You have like a whole 325 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: network of satellites up there in space. So geosynchronous means 326 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: like it's always about the same spot on Earth all 327 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: the time. But with these, because they're lower in orbit, 328 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: they would be basically flying around all the time, that's right, 329 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: A single one would be passing over the Earth. They 330 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: do in orbit in around ninety minutes, and so if 331 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: you have like a ninety minute Internet session, you're not 332 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: always talking to the same satellite. You're getting passed from 333 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: satellite to satellite, And so to have full coverage, you 334 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: need a lot of these satellites. Also, each one, because 335 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: it's lower down, can't see as much of the Earth, 336 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: has like a smaller patch that it covers, so you 337 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 1: need more of them in order to cover the whole Earth. 338 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 1: And didn't know there was so big as big as mattress. 339 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: Does that mean that you would have a mattress ready 340 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: when you go space camping. I don't know how comfortable 341 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,479 Speaker 1: they are, but they good thing in space is they 342 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: don't need to be that comfortable. So this is like 343 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 1: a real thing, right, Like people are planning to make 344 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: these matre sized and thousands of these satellites and launched 345 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: them into space soon, right, Oh, it's a real thing. 346 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: It's already up there. They launched the first ones in 347 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, and so currently they have six hundred of 348 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: these satellites already up there, flying, delivering satellite Internet the 349 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: beta services available in a bunch of countries. But you know, 350 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: there are plans for a lot more, and we've already 351 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: seen some of the sort of negative effects of them, 352 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,479 Speaker 1: and people are worried about what happens if this goes big, 353 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: Like we have six satellites now, but Starlink is approved 354 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: to have twelve thousand satellites up there, and they plan 355 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: to go for thirty thousand satellites. And that's just one company, 356 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: right or like one conglomerate that's doing it there. Other 357 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: companies have other plans, that's right as usual. Jeff Bezos 358 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: has his own plan for an Amazon based one called 359 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: one Web. And so you know, people project that we 360 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: could have like a hundred thousand of these micro satellites 361 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: up in low Earth orbit by the end of the decade. 362 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: And people are wondering, like, what will the nights Guy 363 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: look like if it's filled with these satellites, Well, it 364 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: could look like a basically like a like a discord 365 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: like you're in a nightclub with all these lights moving, 366 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: flashing around everywhere exactly, and if you want to see 367 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: out past lower orbit, deep into the cosmos to learn 368 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: the secrets of nature, that could be a problem. Yike 369 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: might actually block astronomy and our search for answers in 370 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: the universe. So let's get into that. But first let's 371 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: take a quick break. All right, we're talking about mega 372 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: constellations of satellites, so humans as always have to ruin everything. 373 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: So we're gonna ruin the nights guy now, and we're 374 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: gonna put up all these thousands and thousands of satellites 375 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: out in low Earth orbit to give people better access 376 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: to the Internet. I guess it's it's sort of a 377 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: trade off here, right, That's right. You know, there are 378 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: definitely positives and with every technology there are unattended consequences. 379 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: But it is important to bring Internet access to everybody. 380 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: You know, there are lots of folks out there that 381 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: just cannot get reliable Internet, and it's important. It's a 382 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: part of being part of the modern world. And you know, 383 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: for safety issues if you're on the wilderness, to get 384 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: internet for rescue. So there's a lot of advantages to 385 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: having accessible Internet, Like if you're in the middle of 386 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: the ocean, that would be hard to have a zoom call, 387 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: that's right, or you know, order your Amazon Prime. You know, 388 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: I need some fresh water? Can you deliver it? Peace? 389 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: And then it gets deployed from a drone in space? 390 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: Is that the idea? Is that the ultimate goal? I'm 391 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: sure there's a commediate Amazon working on that exact thing. Yes, 392 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: So it's a big equity issues to give every human 393 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: sort of access to all of the knowledge and all 394 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,479 Speaker 1: of the data and all of the news that's happening 395 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: in the world right now, so that nobody gets left behind, 396 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: but unfortunately might have some negative consequences for science, specifically astronomy, 397 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: because astronomy we depends on looking at the night sky, 398 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: and so if there's a bunch of satellites flying in 399 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: front of you, it's going to be hard to do that. Yeah, 400 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: and we've already seen this happen astronomers seed satellites crossing 401 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 1: the path of their telescopes. We've always had satellites up there. 402 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: But if we're going to rapidly increase the number of satellites, 403 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: then it's going to become a bigger and bigger problem. 404 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: And so you see all these examples on the Internet 405 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: of beautiful satellite pictures of deep space, and then there's 406 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: just these like streaks of satellites in a straight line 407 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: going across it, spoiling the view. It's like photo bombing exactly, 408 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: satellite bombing the pictures. And these things can be much 409 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 1: more reflective than the other satellites because they're in lower 410 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 1: Earth orbit, right, so they're much closer. Does that make 411 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: them brighter or just you know, just more annoying. Yeah, 412 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: it makes them brighter, But mostly it's an issue of 413 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: the number these things are eventually going to outside all 414 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: the stars in the sky. Yeah, because I guess these 415 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: satellites they don't actually glow. It's not like they have 416 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,239 Speaker 1: a flash light pointed at the Earth. It's just that 417 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: they don't have any sort of like deacon or anything. 418 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: But we can see them because they're reflecting the light 419 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: from the sun. Things out in space. It's a little 420 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: counterintuitive struggle to stay cool right in space. It's very 421 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: important that you don't overheat, and like Frier electronics, and 422 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: you might think, oh, well space is super cold, right, 423 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: that's true, But also space is a vacuum, and vacuum 424 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: is an insulator. So it's actually harder sometimes to get 425 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: rid of your heat in space because you're not surrounded 426 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: by air that can suck that heat away, right than 427 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: no like wind in space to steal your heat, and 428 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: so you need to stay cold. And one way to 429 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: stay cold, so your electronics work is to be reflective 430 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: rather than absorptive. So they design these things to reflect 431 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: sunlight rather than absorb it, and so basically they act 432 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: almost like mirrors. You know, there's parts of these satellites 433 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: that are very reflective, and when the sun shines on them, 434 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: they light up just like the moon does. Interesting, is 435 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: that why you always see satellites and spacecraft sort of 436 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: like wrapped them an aluminum foil? Is that the reason? 437 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: That's one reason? Yeah, there's lots of reasons. You want 438 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: to protect it also from other kinds of radiation that 439 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: can be stopped by foil, but in general, you want 440 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: your stuff to be reflective in order to stay cool, 441 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: except for the solar panels. The solar panels are black 442 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: because you want them to absorb all the light. But 443 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: even like the other side of the solar panels tend 444 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: to be bright, so that they can reflect away in 445 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: the unwanted heat. I thought maybe just typer Worth technology 446 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: hadn't made it to satellites yet. But yeah, So the 447 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: main palmb is that they have to be reflecting, and 448 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: they reflect light, and that's going to pollute our view 449 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: of the universe. Yeah, and it's especially bad it's sort 450 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: of sunrise and sunset because of the angle of the satellites. 451 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: When the sun goes down and the satellites are sort 452 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: of just over the horizon, then the sun hits them 453 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: and goes right towards your eyes. And so in the deep, 454 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: deep part of the night, when our part of the 455 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: Earth is in shadow, it's not as bad a problem. 456 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: The sort of fewer of these satellites can sort of 457 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: see the sun and see where you are. But it's 458 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: very bad at twilight and also at dawn, which is 459 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: where a lot of really important observing happens. Interesting, but 460 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: couldn't they like, aren't solar panels dark. Couldn't they just 461 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: wrap them in solar panels and that would make them 462 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: both dark and you know, getting more more energy for 463 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: their operation. Solar panels are dark, absolutely, but you can't 464 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: have the whole thing wrapped in solar panels. You need 465 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: part of it have antennas, right, you need to be 466 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: able to communicate with it. And it's actually those antennas 467 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: that are the brightest parts of them that are really 468 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: the most reflective, that have these antenna arrays to communicate 469 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: with ground stations on Earth. That's the point of the satellite. 470 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: And then have these other little parabolic antennas so they 471 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: can talk to each other. And so they're just sort 472 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,360 Speaker 1: of functional parts of the satellite. You know, we'll talk 473 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: later about things they can do to mitigate the reflectivity 474 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: of these satellites, but you can't just have it all 475 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: be one big solar panel. Well, it sounds pretty serious. 476 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you said, as soon there will be as 477 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: many satellites are that there are visible stars in the 478 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: night sky, Like when you look out, most of the 479 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: things you'll see are satellites. Yeah, And I think people 480 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 1: will also be surprised to realize how few stars you 481 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,959 Speaker 1: can see in the night sky. When you look up 482 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: in the night sky, even in the darkest, darkest nights, 483 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: in the depths of the woods, you only really see 484 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: like five thousand, maybe ten thousand stars. It seems like 485 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: an overwhelming number it's really not that big. And then 486 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: when you go into the cities, really it's just down 487 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: to a few hundreds or even dozens. If you're in 488 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: a bright city or one in Los Angeles. Yes, yeah, 489 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: you can see any at all. And so at some point, 490 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: if we have thousands of satellites up there, then they 491 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: really are going to arrival the number of stars that 492 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: you can see. And it's all it's bad for people 493 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: who enjoy seeing the sky. It's bad for you know, 494 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: cultures for whom stars are an important part of their 495 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: storytelling or their history. But it's also really bad for 496 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: astronomers who are very, very sensitive to small amounts of light. 497 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: We have, for example, surveys that are scanning the sky 498 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: constantly looking for changes. What's changing in the night sky, 499 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: our stars getting brighter and dimmer, our scars disappearing is 500 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: a very important for understanding the dynamics of the universe, 501 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: and it's much harder to do if things are changing 502 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: because satellites are whizzing in front of you all of 503 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: the time. I guess is that mostly the problem is 504 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: the photo bombing. It's like the seeing things that you 505 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: think is the star but is not actually a star. 506 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 1: Is that the main problem or does it actually sort 507 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: of affect the measurement of regular stars. It's both. In 508 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: one hand, it blocks things, right, if there's a satellite there, 509 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: you can't see behind it, but also it affects the 510 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 1: rest of the image. Satellite imaging is very sensitive and 511 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 1: it's adaptive, and so if you have a very bright source, 512 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: it can sort of saturated. It changes the whole range. 513 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: It's like when you take a picture with your camera, 514 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: if something is back a lit if the sun is 515 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: behind you, then you really can't see the person. And 516 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: that's because your camera is adjusted because it wants to 517 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: get all the different range, the brightest and the darkest, 518 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: and so then the darkest things don't come out very well. 519 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: So it's sort of like if somebody is shining a 520 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: flashlight in your face right then you can't see the 521 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: night sky at all. And so that's a difficulty for 522 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: astronomical technology. And also astronomical images don't use sea moss 523 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: technology like in your phone, so I use something else 524 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: called a c c D, which is much more sensitive 525 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: to very small amounts of light. But it also has 526 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: a disadvantage in that you know all the pixels in 527 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: a row are sort of linked together. CCD stands for 528 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: charge couple device, and it reads it out by passing 529 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 1: the information down the line. The short first in the 530 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: story is if you overwhelm a single pixel, it can 531 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: cause blooming, which lights up an entire strip of pixels. 532 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: And so it doesn't just overwhelm the part of the 533 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: image you're in, it can also ruin the rest of 534 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: the image. Yeah, because you know, I was thinking, like, 535 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: if we know where all the satellites are, even if 536 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: there are in the thousands, you could still haven't been 537 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: a database so you can maybe account for them and 538 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: when you're doing astronomy. But you're saying, it's just like 539 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: it just causes general light pollution and it oversaturates all 540 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: of our sensors. Yeah, and they've done some studies, you know, 541 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: they're not just whining about it. The astronomy community has 542 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: gotten together a couple of times and put out these 543 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: careful reports analyzing the impact of these mega constellations, both 544 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: the ones we have now and the ones that are 545 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 1: planned in the future, and they anticipate that it could 546 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: ruin like thirty of all astronomical exposure. So that's like 547 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: a huge amount. Oh my God, that's huge. That's a 548 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: lot of science. That's a lot of science. Imagine that 549 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 1: you're some young astronomer and you've just gotten time on 550 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: a very important ground based telescope and it's ruined. You know, 551 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: you already have to gamble with the clouds, and now 552 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: you have to gamble with the clouds. And Elon Musk's 553 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: space toys and Jeff Bezis space mattresses. Yeah, it's not 554 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: just science that's being affected. I mean, more concerning is 555 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: that it might like affect the safety of the human race. Yeah, 556 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: we're talking about putting a lot of objects up there 557 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 1: in orbit, and we already have kind of a lot 558 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: of stuff out there. I mean, there are already like 559 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: four thousand or so satellites in low Earth orbit and 560 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: many more in other orbits. And not all of these 561 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: things are operational anymore, right, not like everything we build 562 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: works forever. So we have a whole episode about this. 563 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: It's called space junk, just like bits of rocket or 564 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: broken satellites that are just sort of floating out there 565 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: in space, cluttering things up. And there's a real danger 566 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: that if you get too many of these things, they 567 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: could just like crash into each other and fill space 568 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: with debris, making it like unpassable, right, and it's like 569 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: debris going at thirty per hour, right, Yeah, it's very 570 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: fast moving stuff. And because it's very fast moving, it 571 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: can lead to this sort of cascade effect, like two 572 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: things collide and they create like thousands or even tens 573 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: of thousands of high speed bits of debris which collide 574 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: with other things, and then pretty soon all of space 575 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: is just filled with garbage. It's like if one person 576 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: slams on their brakes on the freeway very high speed, 577 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: that causes an accident and then you can get like 578 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: a thousand car piloup. Right wow. Yeah. So if you 579 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: put like tens of thousands of satellites up there and 580 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: they all crashing into each other in a chain reaction, 581 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: then we could basically cover the whole earth in like junk, yeah, 582 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: and not just cover the earth like it's not such 583 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: a problem if they fall out of or But that's 584 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: actually okay because when they go into the atmosphere, they 585 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: tend to burn up and they don't hit the surface, 586 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: so it's not really a danger to humanity. But if 587 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: they're still floating up there, that's the real problem, because 588 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: if low Earth orbit is filled with junk. It makes 589 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: it impossible to send a rocket up there because it's 590 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: just gonna get pelted. Right, It's like we have a 591 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: four field that's the opposite direction that prevents us from leaving. 592 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: It's like we built a prison and trapped ourselves inside 593 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: of it. Wow, that would be so tragic and ironic 594 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: for the human race, it would be. And so you 595 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: need to be really careful. And currently there's a whole 596 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: office where people monitor satellite near missus and try to 597 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: get them to avoid each other, and they like fire 598 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: their rockets to move higher or lower out of each 599 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: other's way. But that gets exponentially more complicated as you 600 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: get more satellites. And so now we're talking about like 601 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand more satellites up there. It just seems 602 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: almost inevitable that something's going to go wrong. Yeah, well, 603 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: obviously the solution is to make them out of mattresses, 604 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: and not just the size of mattresses. And so then 605 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: they'll just bounce off each other. Well, let's just make 606 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: them out of marshmallows, right, because toasted, then the sun 607 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: is gonna, yeah, it's gonna start making them catch on fire. 608 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: Sun toasted space marshmallows. I mean, who doesn't want one 609 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: of those? Then you're on the camping trip. You just 610 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: hold out your cracker and marshmall those land right on it. Yeah, 611 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: there you go. If well, if they make it through 612 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: the atmosphere, and you know, I was joking about how 613 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: they burn up when they enter the atmosphere, and that's 614 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: good because they we don't want them to like hit 615 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: buildings or smash on people. But there's another factor there, 616 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: which is that these satellites have a bunch of heavy 617 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: metals in them. And so if you have a lot 618 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,719 Speaker 1: of them and they're burning up when they enter the atmosphere, 619 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: you're sort of polluting the upper atmosphere with a bunch 620 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: of heavy metals. And we don't really know what that means. 621 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: Like if you inject a huge amount of aluminum, even 622 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: in vapor form into the upper atmosphere, what happens. It's 623 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: like a geoengineering experiment. Well, it's like wrapping the Earth 624 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: in aluminum foil, yeah, or something else. Right, Like there's 625 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: this project where they injected the upper atmosphere with all 626 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: of these copper needles to see if it would change 627 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: the weather. And you know that didn't go very well, 628 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: and so who knows what would happen Even if you 629 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: managed to get like the broken satellites to de orbit, 630 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: to sort of fall into the atmosphere and burn up. 631 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: Then who knows what would happen if you pollute the 632 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: upper atmosphere with all this aluminum and other heavy metals. 633 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: It is the final frontier space for human pollution. It 634 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: might not just have our ability to travel into space safely, 635 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: but it might actually like affect our ability to see 636 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: things coming at us that might kill us. One of 637 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: the fields of astronomy that would be most dramatically affected 638 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,239 Speaker 1: are the people who look for near earth objects. So 639 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: if you are on the lookout for a rock that's 640 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: heading towards the Earth that might, for example, kill us all, 641 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: then you can only spot it when it reflects sunlight. Right, 642 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: these rocks are not glowing like stars, and so we 643 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: look for these things and we look for the right 644 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: moment when they shine their light at us. And sometimes 645 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: these things, if they're near the sun, are coming from 646 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: the direction of the sun, they can be very hard 647 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: to spot because of the sun, And so just after 648 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: the sun dips over the horizon, it's the best time 649 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: to see these things. But if space is filled with 650 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of reflective stuff which is also shining back 651 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: at you at the same moment, these twilight and dawn moments, 652 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: then we're basically mind in those directions, and it might 653 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: be impossible to see something coming at us. Wow. Yeah, 654 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: it'd be like a lot of noise, right, like false 655 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: nine when one calls or something like everyone called nine 656 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: and one to prank them, Then you might miss the 657 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: really important calls, right, yeah, exactly. Or it's like in 658 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: top Gun, you know, when every fighter jet is looking 659 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: to like come out of the sun because it's a 660 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: blind spot for the other pilots. That's our blind spot. 661 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: And so if we can no longer look near the sun, 662 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: then it becomes an even bigger blind spot. And that's 663 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: pretty dangerous, like super dangerous. Right. It might mean the 664 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: end of the human race if we don't catch that asteroid. 665 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: And I don't know how you feel about it, but 666 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: I think that's kind of a big deal. It's a 667 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: bigger deal, and it's more it's for sure, and it's 668 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: not just astronomers enjoying the night sky, and you know, 669 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: other cultures who use it for storytelling and avoiding all 670 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: of this pollution of the upper atmosphere. It's in general 671 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: just sort of brightening the night sky, even if you're 672 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: not like training a telescope on one particular spot to 673 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: see a galaxy. In general, it's just going to sort 674 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: of like bright in everything. So like the overall brightness 675 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: of the sky will go up, and that will make 676 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: it harder to see anything. You know. The reason that 677 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,240 Speaker 1: you see stars at night and not during the day. 678 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: They're there during the day, you just don't see them 679 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: because the sky is so bright. So imagine making the 680 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: whole nice guy a little bit brighter. Stars and galaxies 681 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: will literally disappear. I thought you were going to say 682 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: it's going to make it harder to sleep at night. 683 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: Let's mostly just stress and anxiety. You know, we don't 684 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: need satellites for that exactly. We got that covered already. Yeah, 685 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: and it's not just Elon Musk you said. Amazon also 686 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: has one called one Web as well, and there are 687 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: other folks. And one real problem is that there are 688 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: very few laws, Like there are no regulations limiting the 689 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 1: reflectivity of satellites, so there's nothing preventing anybody from launching 690 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: a bunch of these satellites and having them up there 691 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: and being super duper bright. Doesn't the Space Force get 692 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: involved at that point? You mean the Netflix show or 693 00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: the actual New Branch. I mean, like the actual Space 694 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: Force people. Yeah, I think they're too busy making the 695 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 1: uniforms look less like nazis. All right, well, let's get 696 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: into what we could do about this light pollution, this 697 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: magic constellation satellite crowding in the night sky. Is there 698 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: anything we can do about it to prevent it affecting 699 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: astronomy and our ability to see asteroids and our our 700 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: ability to really enjoy the beautiful universe that's out there 701 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: for us to see. So let's get into that. But 702 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:40,280 Speaker 1: first let's take another quick break. All right, we are 703 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: putting all the blame on billionaires today Jeff Bezos and 704 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 1: Elon Musk that they have plans to fill the sky 705 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 1: with thousands and thousands and thousands of mini satellites, which 706 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: might affect our ability to look out into the universe 707 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: and learn from it and also appreciate its beauty. That's right, 708 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: And astronomers have come to other and reached out to 709 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: these companies and try to describe to them the impact 710 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 1: and the importance of astronomy and preserving our dark skies. 711 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: So there's been a lot of discussions, and it's not 712 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: like these tech entrepreneurs are totally ignoring it. They understand, 713 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: they get it. Elon Musk said, quote, I am confident 714 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: that we will not cause any impact whatsoever in astronomical 715 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,320 Speaker 1: discoveries zero and will take corrective action if it's above zero. 716 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 1: That's not super comforting. Um. First of all, I don't 717 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: know if I take Elon Musk get this word and 718 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: say no, well, what if it's too late to take 719 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: corrective action? You know, like what if we feel space 720 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: with junk and then we can't do anything about Is 721 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: he going to personally go up there with a little 722 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: broom in it clean up his own mess? Yeah? Yeah, 723 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: clean up his own debris. I don't know, But at 724 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: least it's better than if you just shrugged it up 725 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: and ignored them. You know, making the right noises is 726 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: better than making the wrong noises. I guess, but you're right. 727 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: It's something we need to discuss now before space gets 728 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: very very filled with these constellations. Do you think it's 729 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: in his budget? Like you know, Oops, I was wrong. 730 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: Let's let's paint it, clean this up. As long as 731 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: it costs less than two billion, then yeah he can 732 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: afford it. You know. There you go. But they have 733 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: done some things. I mean they have been already responsive 734 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 1: and they're working to reduce the impact of all their 735 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: satellites on astronomy. The first thing they did was similar 736 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: to your idea, which is they just tried to make 737 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: these things darker. They're like, well, let's try to make 738 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: each satellite less reflective. So they introduced a new version 739 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: of their satellite called dark Sat, where they basically painted 740 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: it with this anti reflective coating. So these phased antenna 741 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: arraysed and the parts that communicate with the ground, instead 742 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: of being very reflective, they made them dark and very absorbedive. 743 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: Does that help? It helps a bit, I mean it 744 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: makes them about half as bright, which is good. The 745 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: problem is that then then the satellite doesn't really work 746 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 1: because it absorbs too much heat, and then it can't 747 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: really function as intended, and so it only half solves 748 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 1: the problem, but it sort of breaks the satellite from 749 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: the commercial aspect, so it wasn't really a work solution. 750 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: What else can they do? Well, then they have another idea, 751 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,760 Speaker 1: which is instead of painting it directly with an anti 752 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 1: reflective coating, they're putting like a visor on it, like 753 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 1: a shade, and so this has the same effect. It's 754 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: like a black shape, but it deploys and it's a 755 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: little bit distant from the antenna, so it's not actually 756 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,280 Speaker 1: like heating up the antenna itself, and it just blocks 757 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: the sunlight at the right moment, so it doesn't reflect 758 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: back onto the Earth like a little parasol. Yeah, like 759 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: a little parasol, or like that flap in your car. 760 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: You know that you can pull down to block the 761 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: sun and you put it back up when you don't 762 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 1: need it. So this is something that can deploy just 763 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: the right moment to avoid those reflections at dawn and 764 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: at dusk. Interesting, but would you point out at the 765 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: sun like to block the sun or would you point 766 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: it at the Earth so it doesn't you know, the 767 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: light doesn't go onto Earth. You position it between the 768 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: sun and the most reflective parts of the satellite, and 769 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,399 Speaker 1: then at such an angle that any sunlight that does 770 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 1: hit it goes off into space rather than down to Earth. 771 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: So basically redirects the sunlight so it doesn't bounce off 772 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: the sad light and down to Earth. It goes out 773 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: into space instead. But I imagine that's kind of expensive, right, 774 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: because then the satellite has to be actively like moving 775 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,879 Speaker 1: this visor, this blocker all the time and then cost energy. Yeah, 776 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: it costs energy, and it costs more money, but that 777 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 1: seems to be something they're willing to do. They're also 778 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: playing lots of games with the positioning of the satellite. 779 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: Like one of the most reflective parts of the satellite 780 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: is the solar array. So the satellite itself is like 781 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: you know, the size of a bed, it's like one 782 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: m by two ms. But then it has this solar 783 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: power array which is like ten meters long, and it's 784 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: very reflective. And so if that solar ray is positioned 785 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: in such a way that reflects back down to the Earth, 786 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: it's like incredibly bright. And so they've rearranged the sort 787 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: of the direction of the solar array so that it's 788 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 1: behind the satellite. It catches sun, but it's shielded from 789 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: the Earth by the satellite chassis itself, so that it 790 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 1: also improves the reflectivity. Interesting, and it couldn't be also 791 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 1: like maybe angle the satellite in certain times for certain 792 00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: ways so that it's less reflective, or with that inner 793 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: here with like pointing the intendant stuff, that's a great idea, 794 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: and that's what they're doing there, sort of trying to 795 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: angle the satellites so the sun comes on the knife's 796 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: edge rather than on the flat part of it, sort 797 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 1: of like on the narrow edge of the mattress, and 798 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,319 Speaker 1: that will also reduce the reflectivity, you know, and so 799 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,879 Speaker 1: they're doing what they can. One issue is that all 800 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 1: this so far is voluntary, you know, like regulations and 801 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: laws don't really keep up with technology, which can move 802 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: very very fast, especially when Elon Musk is involved. And 803 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 1: so the kind of thing that never really was a 804 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: problem that never really needed to be handled with legislation 805 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: and regulation, all of a sudden, we're like at the 806 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: mercy of these billionaires because we don't have sort of 807 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,879 Speaker 1: rules in place. Well, it's sort of like the open seas, right, 808 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: like nobody owns it and nobody is regulating it. I 809 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: don't actually know how that works. I think there are 810 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: laws about what happens on the international oceans, but I'm 811 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,359 Speaker 1: definitely not an expert. But you're right, it's a new 812 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: frontier of technology, and so our existing laws you know, 813 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: even if they do cover it, they didn't anticipate this, 814 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: and so they weren't really written for this. In mind, 815 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: people have built in assumptions. Surely nobody's gonna launch a 816 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: hundred thousand satellites when they wrote these laws decades ago. Well, 817 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,320 Speaker 1: obviously we need space rangers or you know, space cowboys 818 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: to put some order back into town up there. Yeah, 819 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: and order is important. Another thing we can do is 820 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: just know where these things are. If you're an astronomer 821 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: and you know where the satellites are and when they're coming, 822 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: you can try to plan your observations around it, and 823 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: you can remove them. You can subtract them from your images. 824 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: You don't have to play guessing games like well was 825 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: that a star that did this crazy thing? Or was 826 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: that star links satellite numbers seven thousand, four hundred forty two. Right. 827 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: If you can know these things very precisely, like you 828 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: could program it into your telescope to take pictures when 829 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,479 Speaker 1: it's when there aren't any satellites passing in that little 830 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: patches guy you're looking at. Yeah, and then also afterwards 831 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,760 Speaker 1: to subtract anything that happens to get in the way. 832 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: But this needs some coordination. You know, somebody has to 833 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,240 Speaker 1: like write the software and have a database and maintain 834 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: an updated and have it be accurate, very precise. And 835 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: who's gonna pay for that, right, So is that starlink 836 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:04,880 Speaker 1: is going to do that or the astronomer is going 837 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: to have to force their grad students to write this software. 838 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: It just needs some sort of organization. And we're at 839 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: this moment where like we've dipped our toes in the 840 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 1: Mega constellation and we're about to dump thousands and thousands more. 841 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: It's the kind of thing we need to figure out 842 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: before we make a big mistake. Yeah, I think there 843 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,400 Speaker 1: should also be like a space tax maybe, you know, 844 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: like tax all those billionaires for their satellites and then 845 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 1: use that money to fund space telescopes, you know, because 846 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 1: it seems like that's what astronomy is going towards, which is, 847 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,280 Speaker 1: you know, as we get more and more light pollution. 848 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,400 Speaker 1: First we went out to the top of mountains to 849 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: put telescopes, and now we're putting telescopes up in space 850 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 1: to get away from human light. And so maybe we'd 851 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 1: just haven't paid for more space telescopes. That sounds good 852 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,400 Speaker 1: to me. I'm always going to vote for more taxes 853 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 1: on billionaires to fund more science. Sign me up. But 854 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: you know, space telescopes are not always the answer, Like 855 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 1: there are advantages to space telescopes you're above the atmosphere, 856 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 1: light pollution, this kind of stuff, But there are also 857 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 1: a lot of advantages to ground based telescopes, Like you 858 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: can't build a thirty meter telescope in space because you 859 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: can't launch something that big, and it's harder to repair 860 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 1: and to swap out instruments. So there's always going to 861 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: be an important role for ground based astronomy, and we 862 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 1: should make sure that we don't munge that up. I 863 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: guess it's all just another sort of reminder of how 864 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: things change in the universe. You know, it's not just 865 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,359 Speaker 1: sort of changing at a cosmic scale, but we can 866 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,840 Speaker 1: very easily change our view of it and our access 867 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,840 Speaker 1: to all that knowledge in the universe. Like, you know, 868 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,600 Speaker 1: we have to be careful right when we do these 869 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: things we do, and as humans, we tend to assume 870 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: that things are static or infinite, you know, the way 871 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: we treat the ocean. We used to think the ocean 872 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 1: is like an infinite source of water and you could 873 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,239 Speaker 1: just dump stuff in it. And would just sort of 874 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 1: like float away and dilute forever. But now we know 875 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: that obviously it's not infinite, and you know, we filled 876 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: it with microplastics and garbage and it's a real problem. 877 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,040 Speaker 1: Or like the air, we thought there was plenty of 878 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,840 Speaker 1: air or atmosphere and now we're slowly clogging it up. Yeah, 879 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: and forests, you know, we have very little like Dean 880 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,719 Speaker 1: wild nature left for that reason, so we have to 881 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 1: be careful not to do the same things to space. 882 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,320 Speaker 1: While I'm a big believer in technology and space based 883 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,320 Speaker 1: technology and all that cool stuff, we have to be 884 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,399 Speaker 1: very careful and do this in a thoughtful way. Save 885 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,799 Speaker 1: the night sky. Should we start that movement? Daniel here 886 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,760 Speaker 1: on the podcast, are you going to be the spearhead 887 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:22,560 Speaker 1: for that? Keep dark skies dark, keep stars bright, right, 888 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:28,120 Speaker 1: keep space weird, keep camping fun, but somehow make it a 889 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,719 Speaker 1: a little more comfortable. Please. Yeah. Put some of those 890 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 1: matches sized satellites, you know, sprinkle them in the forest 891 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,160 Speaker 1: and then Daniel will always have a place to lay 892 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,879 Speaker 1: down on. All those smores do make me tired after 893 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: a long day of camping, all right, Well, the next 894 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,440 Speaker 1: time you look up at the nice sky and appreciate 895 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: the view because maybe some day soon what you'll be 896 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: seeing are faxed stars basically not real, actual exploding stars 897 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 1: out there in the universe. And let's hope that we 898 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: can learn as much as we can about the nature 899 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,320 Speaker 1: of the universe before we do change age of the 900 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,000 Speaker 1: night sky forever. Well, we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks 901 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: for joining us, See you next time. Thanks for listening, 902 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,239 Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge explained. The Universe is 903 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio or more podcast For 904 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 905 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.