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Speaker 1: Hi, This is newt Twenty twenty is going to be

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Speaker 1: one of the most extraordinary election years of our lifetime.

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Speaker 1: I want to invite you to join my Inner Circle

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Speaker 1: as we discuss each twist and turn in the presidential race.

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Speaker 1: Circle dot com slash podcast use the Code podcast at checkout.

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Speaker 1: Sign up today at Newtcenter Circle dot com slash podcast

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Speaker 1: and use the Code podcast Hurry this Offtway Spires February fourteenth.

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Speaker 1: On this episode of Newtswork, one of the most important

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Speaker 1: struggles on the planet is taking place right now between

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Speaker 1: the people of Hong Kong and the mainland communist Chinese

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Speaker 1: dictatorship led by General Secretary Jijianping. It has been twenty

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Speaker 1: two years since the July first nineteen ninety seven andover

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Speaker 1: of Hong Kong from Britain to Communist China. The system

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Speaker 1: worked moderately well in maintaining a balance of economic and

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Speaker 1: personal freedom next to a ttlitarian system. However, as the

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong government, working with Beijing, proposed an extradition bill

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Speaker 1: to send lawbreakers in Hong Kong to communist courts in China,

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Speaker 1: millions of Hong Kong citizens flooded the streets in protests.

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Speaker 1: The key test now is what General Secretary of Jijianping

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Speaker 1: is going to do about this direct confrontation between Hong

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Speaker 1: Kong's people in Beijing's military and police power. On this episode,

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Speaker 1: I'll explain why the protests are happening and why we

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Speaker 1: as Americans should care about the outcome. I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about what's going on in Hong Kong now

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Speaker 1: because I think that it is the biggest test of

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Speaker 1: the communist Chinese dictatorship since Tianamen Square in nineteen eighty nine.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I say that is that what you've

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Speaker 1: been watching on television is an outpouring of people. Remember,

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Speaker 1: the Chinese communists have been perfecting visual identification systems so

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Speaker 1: you can assume that if you're on one of these demonstrations,

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Speaker 1: the odds are pretty good. The police are taking your picture,

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Speaker 1: and if they decide to come back and crack down,

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Speaker 1: you can suddenly find yourself in real trouble. The dictatorship

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Speaker 1: on the mainland can be very tough and has had

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Speaker 1: people locked up. So this is not fun and games.

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Speaker 1: This is a real act of courage. And what's fascinating

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Speaker 1: me is the scale that it's built to the fact

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Speaker 1: that you and I are watching millions of people who

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Speaker 1: are standing up and saying they don't want to go

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Speaker 1: down a slippery path where the communist government, the dictatorship

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Speaker 1: on the mainland is able to have greater and greater control.

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Speaker 1: And I think this reflects on something very deep, and

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Speaker 1: the Chinese communist dictatorship style its court system in the end,

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Speaker 1: is very political. It's important to remember that the mainland

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Speaker 1: government is in fact defined by the Communist Party with

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Speaker 1: about ninety million Communist Party members, and that they permeate everything.

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Speaker 1: They permeate the courts, the police, the corporations, the universities,

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Speaker 1: the people in Hong Kong who had spent a long

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Speaker 1: time being governed by the British shoe of a totally

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Speaker 1: different approach, very parallel to ours, and that the rule

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Speaker 1: of law matters, individual dignity matters, the state has limits

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Speaker 1: on its power. All of those things had conditioned people

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Speaker 1: in Hong Kong to a belief in their own legitimate

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Speaker 1: authority and their own legitimate dignity, and they see all

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Speaker 1: this being threatened, and they're smart enough to understand that

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Speaker 1: it's a slippery slope. The immediate cause of the crisis

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Speaker 1: was a proposed bill that would allow the Chinese Communist

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Speaker 1: government to extradite people from Hong Kong to the mainland. Now,

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Speaker 1: the excuse for it was that a local teenager was

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Speaker 1: killed while she's vacation with her boyfriend in Taiwan. The boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: who's a Hong Kong resident, admits to the murder, but

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Speaker 1: authorities can't extradite him back to stand trial and they

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Speaker 1: have to prosecuting him for a lesser charge of money laundering.

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Speaker 1: So the government comes in using that particular outrageous case

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Speaker 1: as an excuse and says, you know what we need

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Speaker 1: to do is have an extradition law that, in an

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Speaker 1: orderly way, will let us get rid of bad people.

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Speaker 1: Let us get rid of criminals, violent criminals, and it

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Speaker 1: all sounds on the surface plazzible anyway. City So, well,

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Speaker 1: if that's what they're doing, why is there this huge outrage,

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Speaker 1: Why are these enormous demonstrations? And the reason is virtually

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Speaker 1: nobody in Hong Kong trust the dictatorship in Beijing, and

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Speaker 1: they all assume that once you start down the slope

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Speaker 1: this year, it might be only hardened criminals. Next year

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Speaker 1: it might be publishers and writers and public spokespersons. The

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Speaker 1: year after it might be people who belong to parties

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Speaker 1: that are not communist, And so they see it as

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the end of the freedom which has

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Speaker 1: made Hong Kong so unique. You and I have been

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Speaker 1: watching history, and we've been watching a moment in time

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Speaker 1: where we don't know how it's going to end. It

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Speaker 1: could be anywhere from a permanent change in the power

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Speaker 1: system with the people of Hong Kong having vastly more power,

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Speaker 1: or it could be the gradual coercion through a series

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Speaker 1: of steps by Beijing. Or it could be that Beijing

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Speaker 1: simply moves in and decides that it's going to do

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Speaker 1: whatever it has to in order to be able to

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Speaker 1: dominate and the truth is, we don't know which of

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Speaker 1: these outcomes is going to happen next. And that's why

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Speaker 1: I thought it was useful to put in context how

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong got to be there, what it's like, what

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Speaker 1: the fight's over, and what the options are in terms

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Speaker 1: of the central government and what they're looking at. And

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Speaker 1: remember this, if you are the Chinese communist dictatorship and

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Speaker 1: you're sitting in Beijing trying to run a country of

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Speaker 1: a billion, four hundred million people, you know the deal

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Speaker 1: you've cut, which is the people will give us the

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Speaker 1: right to run up to tolitarian state, but in return,

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Speaker 1: we are going to give them prosperity. I think it's

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Speaker 1: fair to say that there's general acceptance in communist China

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Speaker 1: that the deal has been I have a better life,

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Speaker 1: but that's a life controlled by the Communist Party. But

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Speaker 1: it's better than chaos. It's better than a disaster, it's

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Speaker 1: better than poverty. However, there are three places where there

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Speaker 1: are populations of Chinese descent that are both prosperous and free.

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Speaker 1: The one we're talking about today Hong Kong, which has

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Speaker 1: a unique relationship in that it is part of communist China,

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Speaker 1: but as they say, it's one country with two systems.

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Speaker 1: In the twenty two years since the British turned over

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Speaker 1: the city state to the Communist that I've actually remained

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Speaker 1: relatively more open, free, or more entrepreneurial and with greater rights.

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Speaker 1: The second, of course is Taiwan, which was occupied by

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Speaker 1: the Nationalists when they lost the Civil war on the

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Speaker 1: mainland and has grown steadily free or steadily more open,

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Speaker 1: and steadily more distant from the mainland. Taiwan has millions

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Speaker 1: of people. It's much bigger than Hong Kong. It has

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Speaker 1: millions of people now who are of Chinese descent but

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Speaker 1: are living in freedom, have a free press, have free elections,

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Speaker 1: and are also very very prosperous. And the third, of

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Speaker 1: course is Singapore, which is one of the most remarkable

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Speaker 1: city states of the world, enormously successful, and which had

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Speaker 1: for a very long time in Li Kuan Yu, one

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Speaker 1: of the wisest leaders in modern history, who really laid

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Speaker 1: the basis for a remarkably prosperous and safe country. So

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Speaker 1: if you're city in Beijing and you're trying to make

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Speaker 1: sure that the billion four million people you currently govern

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Speaker 1: don't get crazy ideas, you worry if they start seeing

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Speaker 1: too much freedom in Taiwan or Singapore or Hong Kong.

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Speaker 1: And you worry the most about Hong Kong because it

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Speaker 1: is basically right next to the mainland. People go back

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Speaker 1: and forth all of the time. There's a great deal

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Speaker 1: of news media, publishing, books and other things in Hong

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Speaker 1: Kong which reached back into China, and so there's a

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Speaker 1: great sensitivity and they've found themselves, I think, caught and

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Speaker 1: not certain what to do next. How discussed the history

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Speaker 1: of Hong Kong, including it's one hundred and fifty five

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Speaker 1: year of British colonization and now twenty two years of

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Speaker 1: being under communist Chinese rule. They struggle in the way

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Speaker 1: now between the people of Hong Kong and the communist

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Speaker 1: Chinese dictatorship in the mainland. It's fascinating in part because

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong has been so amazingly successful. This is a

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Speaker 1: tiny city state who has sixty one thousand dollars income

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Speaker 1: per capita as a population of seven million, four hundred thousand,

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Speaker 1: one of the most heavily popular places in the world,

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Speaker 1: and it is absolutely an extraordinary achievement of the human

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Speaker 1: spirit that with virtually no resources virtually no space, that

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Speaker 1: in fact they have built this remarkable trading, finance and

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Speaker 1: manufacturing center, and that they've evolved is Communist China evolved

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Speaker 1: and became more open. Hong Kong had to find new

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Speaker 1: ways of earning a living, new ways of being a

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Speaker 1: competitor worldwide, and they've absolutely done it. It's an astonishing place,

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Speaker 1: and it's a place of great diversity. Well about nine

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Speaker 1: at every ten people in Hong Kong or Chinese. They're

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Speaker 1: also Filipinos, they're Indonesians, they're Europeans. The remarkable blend of

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Speaker 1: people is illustrated in their religion. Twenty eight percent Buddhist

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Speaker 1: or Daoist, about seven percent Protestant, about five percent Catholic,

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Speaker 1: about four percent Muslim, about one and a half percent Hindu,

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Speaker 1: tiny number of Sikhs, and then people of no stated

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Speaker 1: religion about half the population. And they feel that they're

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Speaker 1: citizens of Hong Kong. They don't think that they're in

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Speaker 1: any way tied to the Chinese communist dictatorship. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the University of Hong Kong did a study in twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen and found that only thirty one percent of Hong

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Speaker 1: Kong residents are proud to be national citizens of China.

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Speaker 1: They don't identify their success, their freedom, and their future

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Speaker 1: with the Chinese communist dictatorship. They really see themselves as

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Speaker 1: part of a larger world and as people who make

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Speaker 1: a living by a remarkable level of entrepreneurial behavior. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, there have been a number of studies on

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Speaker 1: the Hong Kong very low tax system in which they

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Speaker 1: have really attracted entrepreneurs, attracted investments, and by allowing people

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Speaker 1: to keep the money they make, they have created a

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Speaker 1: center of wealth. There was an estimate that there are

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Speaker 1: more high value people in terms of income in Hong

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Speaker 1: Kong than in any other single city in the world.

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Speaker 1: That's how productive and that's how powerful it's been. Now.

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Speaker 1: This is also a historical anomaly. Hong Kong originally was

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Speaker 1: just some islands, and the British decided it was a

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Speaker 1: great port, and so part of the agreement that the

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Speaker 1: British made with the Imperial government back at the end

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Speaker 1: of the Opium Wars in the eighteen forties, they were

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Speaker 1: given rights to the island of Hong Kong. Later on

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Speaker 1: they acquired rights to an are in the mainland called Kowloon,

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Speaker 1: and for a very long period the British ran the

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Speaker 1: place no real regard for the Chinese government, whether it

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Speaker 1: was the nationalist Chinese or the communist Chinese or before

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Speaker 1: that the Empire. But they ran it as a colony.

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to remember this because there's a

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Speaker 1: certain amount of unfairness in saying, why can't they have

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Speaker 1: free elections like they didn't the British. No, that was

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Speaker 1: a colony. Now as a colony that had the rule

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Speaker 1: of law. It was a colony that people generally felt

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Speaker 1: was very fair. Its a colony that was very well policed,

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Speaker 1: but it nonetheless was not a free country. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: a place that had exercised a deep tradition of democracy.

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Speaker 1: This was a ninety nine year lease, and after a

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Speaker 1: long time the lease began to run out. And by

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Speaker 1: that time you had a much bigger, much more powerful

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Speaker 1: communist China, and you had Britain which had dropped dramatically

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Speaker 1: in military power and dropped dramatically in relative economic rank.

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Speaker 1: And so there was no possibility, no practical, realistic possibility,

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Speaker 1: that Britain could hold on to Hong Kong if the

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Speaker 1: Chinese communists wanted an agreement, and so they had a

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Speaker 1: long negotiation. I was actually Speaker of the House in

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong during the negotiating period, and the British worked

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Speaker 1: very hard to get a general agreement from the Chinese

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Speaker 1: Communist that they would in fact be willing to run

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Speaker 1: a rule of law system very close to what the

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Speaker 1: British had been doing, and that they would gradually bring

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Speaker 1: in some level of representative government. The way the Chinese

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Speaker 1: captured it, it was a pretty intelligent model was there

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Speaker 1: would be one country, but two systems. So from the

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Speaker 1: standpoint of Beijing, Hong Kong is Chinese, but it's Chinese

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Speaker 1: in a different way than the rest of China. Now,

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Speaker 1: pardon reaes in the Hong Kong was treated this way,

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Speaker 1: is that the dictatorship in Beijing was trying to send

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Speaker 1: a signal to Taiwan that they could rejoin mainland China,

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Speaker 1: and then you would have one country and you'd have

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Speaker 1: three systems. And that required that Taiwan decided that they

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Speaker 1: could trust Beijing to keep its word, So that a

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Speaker 1: pretty consistent bias in favor of occupying the system in

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Speaker 1: a fair way with the rule of law. With a

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Speaker 1: police force that had a long reputation for being incorruptible

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Speaker 1: and extraordinarily honest and professional. In that setting, Hong Kong

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Speaker 1: just transitioned from Great Britain to China and remained entrepreneurial.

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Speaker 1: I had a huge work ethic. People could rise rapidly

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Speaker 1: in economic wealth, and as China grew richer, a great

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Speaker 1: deal of that wealth came through Hong Kong in the

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Speaker 1: form of trade or in the form of finances or

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Speaker 1: insurance companies. And the result was that not only did

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong rise because of itself, but Hong Kong also

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Speaker 1: rose because of the general gradual rise of all of China.

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Speaker 1: So for a very period life has been exciting, it's

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Speaker 1: been positive, and yet there's been this continuous sense of

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Speaker 1: being worried about what will happen. And the fact is

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Speaker 1: nobody knew how it would evolve. Certainly after Tenement Square,

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Speaker 1: when the Chinese Communists decided they had to shoot people

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Speaker 1: and run over them with tanks, there was a sense

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Speaker 1: that there was a pretty rigid system politically and it

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to evolve towards any kind of real freedom

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Speaker 1: in the short run. But that didn't particularly carry over

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Speaker 1: to Hong Kong. In fact, Beijing, so recognized Hong Kong's

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Speaker 1: ability to be independent, that they were willing to have

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Speaker 1: people come to Hong Kong where they could talk about

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Speaker 1: tenement at the very time that in the communist Chinese

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Speaker 1: world they were erasing all the memories. So if you

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Speaker 1: looked at the history textbooks, if you looked at memoirs,

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Speaker 1: if you looked at a variety of other things, tenement

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Speaker 1: square never quite occurred in the historic pattern of communist China,

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Speaker 1: but there were people who were openly publicly talking about

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Speaker 1: it in Hong Kong. The Beijing dictatorship wasn't particularly happy

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Speaker 1: about it, but they gained certain very large advantages by

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Speaker 1: tolerating the way in which Hong Kong operated. First of all,

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong is a generator of enormous wealth, much of

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Speaker 1: which goes to China. The value of Chinese currency, the

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Speaker 1: value of Chinese investments, the very fact that a lot

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Speaker 1: of Chinese wealthy people put money into Hong Kong. All

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Speaker 1: of these things led Beijing to be very careful. They

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Speaker 1: didn't want to kill the goose that was laying the

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Speaker 1: golden egg. At the same time, they also recognized that

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Speaker 1: whatever the political, diplomatic and public relations hit had been

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Speaker 1: in dealing with Tenement Square. It'd be enormously bigger if

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Speaker 1: they did something to suppress descent in Hong Kong itself.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there was ever any serious thought about

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Speaker 1: using the military in Hong Kong the way they had

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Speaker 1: used the military in Beijing. And there's no evidence at

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Speaker 1: the moment at least that they are going to put

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Speaker 1: that scale of people in there. And I think they

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Speaker 1: have a pretty idea how horrible it would look on

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Speaker 1: television and how rapidly the rest of the world would

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Speaker 1: respond with enormous hostility if that's what they did. So

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Speaker 1: you had a situation building where you have, on the

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Speaker 1: one front, the people of Hong Kong aggressively and directly

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Speaker 1: taking on the establishment. And to understand that, in part,

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Speaker 1: you have to recognize that that establishment was really rigged

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Speaker 1: by the Chinese Communists. There are about twelve hundred people

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Speaker 1: who elect the Chief executive. Those people are almost overwhelmingly

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Speaker 1: biased in favor of Beijing. There's the general agreement that

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Speaker 1: the amount of pressure that Beijing can bring to bear

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Speaker 1: on the chief executives overwhelming, and in fact Lamb who's

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Speaker 1: the current Chief executive, couldn't survive for a full day

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Speaker 1: if Beijing wanted to kick her out. People on Hong

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Speaker 1: Kong know this, so they know she's really Beijing's puppet

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Speaker 1: running Hong Kong. She's not Hong Kong's choice running Hong Kong,

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Speaker 1: and that leads to a continuous frustration and a continuous

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Speaker 1: sense of wanting to change it now. Starting at the

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Speaker 1: end of the British period, there was a growing democracy movement.

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Speaker 1: They had never had full democracy into the British but

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Speaker 1: they thought now that they were changing over, maybe the

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Speaker 1: time had come to in fact have that kind of approach.

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Speaker 1: The tension between the evolution of Hong Kong as an

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Speaker 1: increasingly free environment and the continual effort of the Chinese

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Speaker 1: communist to bring it under a socialist communist dictatorial system

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Speaker 1: has been fascinating to watch. Ninety seven the British leaf,

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Speaker 1: the Chinese flag is raised and the British flag comes

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Speaker 1: down on July first, nineteen ninety seven. By two thousand

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Speaker 1: and three, there's an anti subversion law prohibiting quote any

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Speaker 1: act of treason, successions, sedition, or subversion against the Central

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Speaker 1: People's government or the theft of the state. So that

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Speaker 1: is actually focused on making them tolerate mainland communist Chinese dictatorship,

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Speaker 1: saying that you can go to jail for doing things

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Speaker 1: that the government in Beijing thinks are inappropriate, but at

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Speaker 1: the time they're still locked into the Hong Kong legal system.

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Speaker 1: While they tried to ban groups that there were unacceptable,

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Speaker 1: they could ban them in the mainland, but they weren't

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Speaker 1: doing a very good job of banning in Hong Kong.

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Speaker 1: So they kept looking for ways to change the attitude

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Speaker 1: of people in Hong Kong who were very skeptical of

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Speaker 1: dictatorship and very much in favor of a more open society.

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Speaker 1: By twenty and twelve, the government and desperation announced the

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Speaker 1: plan to require school children to take classes in Chinese patriotism,

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Speaker 1: by which of course they meant the communist dictatorship's patriotism

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Speaker 1: and there are huge mass student protests and they don't

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Speaker 1: require it. By twenty fourteen, as a pro democracy group

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Speaker 1: which actually sets up an an official referendum, setting up

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Speaker 1: three different options of how they want to directly elect

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Speaker 1: the head of the local government, Beijing says, no, we're

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Speaker 1: not going to have open nominations. In fact, the Chinese

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Speaker 1: Communist State News agency reports that candidates would be chosen

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Speaker 1: by a Chinese government committee before being put on the ballot,

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Speaker 1: So they're already narrowing down the range of choices, so

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Speaker 1: you can only pick up choice acceptable to Beijing. When

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Speaker 1: Beijing does reject the proposal for open nominations, they're student boycotts,

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Speaker 1: and all through twenty fourteen you have the police clashing

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Speaker 1: with pro democracy protesters, hitting them with pepper spray, shooting

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Speaker 1: tear gas, and up to eighty thousand people gathered to

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Speaker 1: protests in twenty fourteen. This was considered a substantial protest.

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Speaker 1: Eighty thousand people. We've just seen two million people in

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Speaker 1: the streets seeing see how the movement has grown over

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Speaker 1: the last five years. The Chinese Communist government's chief negotiator,

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Speaker 1: who is now the chief executive officer, Carrie Lamb, she's

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Speaker 1: negotiated as long as she can and they're not going

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Speaker 1: to negotiate anymore. By mid December, the leaders announced that

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Speaker 1: the boycotts are over. They've made their big push. They failed,

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Speaker 1: and you could have said at that point that that

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Speaker 1: was up to then the high water mark of the

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00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: struggle for democracy in Hong Kong. Even while the political

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Speaker 1: tension was intense. The economic integration continued to go on.

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Speaker 1: By some twenty eighteen, there's a high speed rail link

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Speaker 1: between Hong Kong and mainland China. There are huge quantities

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Speaker 1: of people going back and forth, and you can actually

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Speaker 1: clear Kimnist Chinese immigration inside the station in Hong Kong. However,

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Speaker 1: some of the opposition leaders start saying, wait a second,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to let the Chinese Commnist government clear

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Speaker 1: immigration in the Hong Kong train station, are you in

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Speaker 1: effects setting up a piece of territory that the Chinese

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Speaker 1: Kimnists will claim is theirs. And so the tension that

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Speaker 1: is very prickly sense of what is it that Beijing's

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Speaker 1: going to try to do next. By September of twenty

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Speaker 1: and eighteen, nonely had the open high speed rail link,

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Speaker 1: but Hong Kong bands the Hong Kong National Party, which

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Speaker 1: had advocated independence for the territory, and they argued that

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Speaker 1: it's a national security issue to have people advocating independence. Well, again,

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Speaker 1: if you think about it, this is a step away

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Speaker 1: from the original vision that they would prove you could

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Speaker 1: have two systems in one country. Because increasingly they're coercing

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Speaker 1: people in Hong Kong to basically accept Chinese communist definition

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Speaker 1: of the two systems, and that certainly sends a reminder

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Speaker 1: to Taiwan that maybe you ought to be a little

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Speaker 1: bit careful about how things are going on. They continue, however, economically,

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Speaker 1: to work more and more the direction of coming together.

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Speaker 1: By October twenty eighteen, China opens a bridge linking Hong

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Speaker 1: Kong and Macau to the mainland, and General Secretary of

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Speaker 1: Jijian Ping presides over the ceremony. So they're gradually having,

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Speaker 1: if you will, golden threads that economically unite Hong Kong

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Speaker 1: and communist China, while they're also slowly trying to crowd

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Speaker 1: out the kind of freedoms that have been integral to

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Speaker 1: living in Hong Kong. So that's what got us to

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Speaker 1: the stage where you had these huge demonstrations. You had

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Speaker 1: Carrie Lamb proposed something which clearly had been backed by Beijing,

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Speaker 1: and then she backed down, and we have to presume

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Speaker 1: that she had permission from Beijing to back down. That

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Speaker 1: they looked at a million people in the streets, decided

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Speaker 1: that there's just too big a crowd and that Hong

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Speaker 1: Kong is too open to television and news media. Therefore

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Speaker 1: they couldn't continue where they were going when they backed

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Speaker 1: down on the bill. Instead of people going home and

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Speaker 1: saying great, we won, the next day, there were twice

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Speaker 1: as many people in the street, two million rumer. This

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Speaker 1: is in a country in which the entire population is

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Speaker 1: about seven million, four hundred thousand, So you're talking about

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Speaker 1: almost thirty percent of the country turning out. And if

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Speaker 1: you take that same number for the US, think about

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Speaker 1: this number, you'll be in reals how staggering it is.

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Speaker 1: You'd have over one hundred million Americans in the street.

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Speaker 1: So in this very congested, very small city state, you

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Speaker 1: had a clear demonstration of massive popularity on behalf of

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Speaker 1: first repudiating the extradition bill and second, having won that fight,

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Speaker 1: now they were saying, okay, since we got her back down,

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Speaker 1: let's also fire, and they're demanding that Beijing allow her

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Speaker 1: to step down, and of course Beijing doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: do that, and that's why you're now in this very

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00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: interesting period of a test of will between millions of

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Speaker 1: people in Hong Kong and General Secretary of JJ and Ping. Next,

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Speaker 1: why we should all care as Americans about the outcome

404
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: of the Hong Kong protest. When Neville Chamberlain was contemplating

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Speaker 1: what was happening in Czechoslovakia nineteen thirty eight, and he's

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00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: trying desperately to avoid war, he described it as a

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00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: distant country about which we know a little, and of

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00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: course the result of that appeasement policy was World War two.

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Speaker 1: He was It turned out that that distant country about

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00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: which we know a little was in fact of the

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00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: symbolic breaking point that led Adolf Hitler to believe that

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Speaker 1: he could basically invade any place he wanted to and

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00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: Britain and France would tolerated. Well. Hong Kong is in

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Speaker 1: the same way a small city state, seven million, fo

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Speaker 1: undred thousand people. You could argue, what does it mattered

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Speaker 1: to us? And what it matters to us is really

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00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: about the Chinese communist dictatorship more than about Hong Kong.

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong, in a sense, is like the story of

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00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 1: the canary in the coal mine. In the old days,

420
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Speaker 1: they would keep canaries the coal mine because they were

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Speaker 1: very sensitive to gases, and if the canaries began to

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Speaker 1: get sick, they knew that they had a danger of

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Speaker 1: a gas explosion, and they would evacuate the coal mine. Well,

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong is the testing point for whether or not

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Speaker 1: General Secretary of Jiji and Ping is willing to allow

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Speaker 1: freedom to evolve, or whether, in fact, faced with the

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Speaker 1: risk of a billion, four hundred million people becoming inspired

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Speaker 1: by Hong Kong, he decides that he has to clamp

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00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: down and make the dictatorship even tougher, even more repressive,

430
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Speaker 1: and even more comprehensive. And I think that's why this

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Speaker 1: is a very very important turning point, and it will

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Speaker 1: be very interesting at the G twenty meeting when the

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Speaker 1: President and Jiping meet to see what's happened to the

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Speaker 1: Chinese communists wait and do nothing until after that meeting?

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Speaker 1: Do they act in advance? And also how do the

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Speaker 1: people of Hong Kong evolve? They've had a taste. Now

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Speaker 1: the street power works pushing to get the chief executive fired.

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Speaker 1: She is Beijing's choice. Beijing's not going to back down

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Speaker 1: very easily. And again, if you think like the leader

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Speaker 1: of a billion, forty million people, you don't necessarily want

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Speaker 1: the idea that if enough people go in the street,

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Speaker 1: you're going to do what they tell you. So this

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Speaker 1: is a very delicate and I think very important time

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Speaker 1: because it affects the largest country in the world. It

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Speaker 1: affects the whole question of whether China evolves in a

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Speaker 1: direction that they become more capable of us working with them,

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Speaker 1: or whether in fact, in the end they have to

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Speaker 1: use whatever level of force and is needed in order

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Speaker 1: to sustain the dictatorship and maintain the capacity to repress

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Speaker 1: their own people. I think of the next few months

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Speaker 1: are going to be very important, and I hope that

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Speaker 1: you get a feel about how remarkable Hong Kong is,

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Speaker 1: what a level of courage it took for two million people,

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Speaker 1: almost one out of every three citizens of Hong Kong,

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Speaker 1: to go to the streets, and the kind of historic

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00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: moment when you might in fact see a real step

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Speaker 1: in the direction of freedom, or you might find out

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Speaker 1: that once again repression is used to sustain the dictatorship.

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Speaker 1: I think it will have a big impact on our

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Speaker 1: lives on how we relate to communist China and how

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Speaker 1: the system evolves over the next ten or fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: You can read more about the protest in Hong Kong

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Speaker 1: and the relationship between Hong Kong and Communist China on

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Speaker 1: our show page at Newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced

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00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: by Westwood One. Our executive producer is Debbie Myers and

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00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: our producer is Garnsey Slump. Our editor is Robert Barowski,

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00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. Our guest booker is

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00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: Grace Davis. The art work for the show was created

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00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: by Steve Penley. The music was composed by Joey Salvian.

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00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: Special thanks the team at Gingwis sixty and Westwood Ones,

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00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: John Wardock, Tim Saban, and Robert Bathers. Please email me

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00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: with your comments at newt and newtsworld dot com. If

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00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple

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00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: podcast and both rate us with five stars and give

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00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about.

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00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: On the next episode of newts World, we're taking an

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00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: inside look at the spying business through the experiences of

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00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: three career CIA officers, a number of clear hardcases of

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00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: sp and I s that the Chinese have been involved

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00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: and has gone up dramatically, and I think it's an

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00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: evolution of where they are in terms of irrelative state power.

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Speaker 1: I'm Newt Gingrich and this as Newtsworld, the Westwood one

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00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: podcast network,