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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast, and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and we are now one year out

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Speaker 1: from the twenty twenty four election.

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Speaker 2: We have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: The Washington Post Will Somer joins us to talk about

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Speaker 1: the madness sweeping through the Republican Party. Then we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to Josh from the et Injermentum newsletter about Trump and

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Speaker 1: Desanta's escalating jobs at one another. But first we have

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Speaker 1: the host of the Enemy's List, the Lincoln Project z

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Speaker 1: owned Rick Wilson. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Rick Wilson.

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Speaker 3: Mollie Jong Fast. I'm delighted to be with you as always,

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Speaker 3: I mean today from beautiful Savannah, Georgia, for my son's

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Speaker 3: wedding week.

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Speaker 1: This is a very remote little bit of interview. The

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Speaker 1: two of us are both in weird places. You're in Savannah,

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Speaker 1: Georgia for your son's wedding, which is the dream of

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Speaker 1: every parent.

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Speaker 3: Thank God.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he means you've done it.

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Speaker 3: After the children being wed, it is done. They are

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Speaker 3: awfully launched. They all have careers and and now I

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Speaker 3: await but the army of little Extra Wilson's to emerge

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Speaker 3: into the world.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and Rip Wilson ready to be a grandfather.

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Speaker 1: And I am in my mother's apartment cleaning it out.

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Speaker 2: Very heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: So, speaking of heartbreaking, I want to ask you a question.

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Speaker 1: I've been acting my friends on the Hill all morning. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Mike Johnson, Maggie, Mike Johnson. Is he very very stupid?

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Speaker 1: Or is he playing three dimensional chess? Or is he

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Speaker 1: eating the pieces? Discuss I have a belief.

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Speaker 3: That Mike Johnson is like the species of creature that

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Speaker 3: I discussed periodically called dumb smart guys. He is like

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Speaker 3: Tad Cruz. He is narrowly intelligent about a certain set

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Speaker 3: of things that he is very driven by religion. In

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Speaker 3: his case, it is his cult like dedication to a

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Speaker 3: small of evangelic anity, which I mean, look, I don't

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Speaker 3: speak for Jesus, of.

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Speaker 2: Course, yeah, I do get to be at.

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Speaker 3: Variance with some Well, he's one of the brethren. I

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Speaker 3: suspect that the narrow, pinched, fanatic, bizarro world version of

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Speaker 3: Christianity that Mike Johnson seems to represent is more interested

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Speaker 3: in telling those biddies to get back in the kitchen

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Speaker 3: and take those shoes off and have more babies than

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Speaker 3: the compassion of our Lord and Savior, if you take

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Speaker 3: my meanings.

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Speaker 1: But is he playing three dimensional chess when it comes

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Speaker 1: to he passed so bipartisan sport for this Israel aid package.

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Speaker 1: So instead of just passing the aid package the way

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Speaker 1: one would normally do it, he decides he's going to

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Speaker 1: add quote unquote pay for with the irs. Of course

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Speaker 1: these offsets offset nothing.

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Speaker 2: But what is going on?

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Speaker 3: He offsets the costs of the fourteen billion costs by

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Speaker 3: cutting the.

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Speaker 2: IRS, which adds the depicit.

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Speaker 3: Right, that cut will lead to a twenty three billion

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Speaker 3: dollar loss a tax collection from the wealthiest taxpayer. I

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Speaker 3: don't think it's three dimensional chess. I think it's actually

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Speaker 3: a pretty shallow kind of feed the maga bass play,

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Speaker 3: because you know, the first thing out there is this

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Speaker 3: chunk of red meat of cutting the IRS. Now, look,

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Speaker 3: I guess I missed the ball here on how it

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Speaker 3: is that you allow the hyper wealthiest tax cheats.

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Speaker 2: It's their donor base.

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Speaker 3: I missed how that was part of the freedom agenda.

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Speaker 3: They already are paying a significantly lower tax rate. You

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Speaker 3: and I are not exactly like your basic bitch ten

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Speaker 3: forty filers. We're not like in that category where.

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Speaker 2: We can do our taxes on the back of a postcard.

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Speaker 1: By the way, that was the one thing Trump ever

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Speaker 1: said where I was like, now this this I could

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Speaker 1: get interested in.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, there was never any follow up

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Speaker 2: on that.

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Speaker 3: Right, But here's the thing, the idea that he's going

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Speaker 3: to cut the irs. These are the specific programs thereafter

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Speaker 3: are for these tax scoff laws and tax sheets at

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Speaker 3: a very high level. And these we're talking about people

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Speaker 3: who owe tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.

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Speaker 2: Of taxes to people like Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: And I was just going to say, there are certain

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Speaker 3: people you might you might know them as America's favorite

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Speaker 3: first family of failed sons.

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Speaker 1: Ah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, these people deserve like a nineteen sixties TV show.

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Speaker 3: They really do, like My Three Spawn or something. There's awful.

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Speaker 1: Well, the problem is, like, you can't do a TV

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Speaker 1: show with no likable characters.

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Speaker 2: They'll be like, who should we root for in this?

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Speaker 2: And you're like, the American people, not really.

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Speaker 3: The meteors strike all of them.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but we mean that in a completely theoretical sense

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Speaker 1: and a spiritual sense, and not.

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Speaker 3: I mean actual medior plunging.

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Speaker 1: Now you don't anyway moving on to things they cannot

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Speaker 1: get us.

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Speaker 2: So where does this go? Right now?

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Speaker 1: The setup is a MAGA might need Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell,

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Speaker 1: I don't think you want to go against Mitchell O'Connell.

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Speaker 3: Listen, Mitch has lost a step or three. Mitch's old,

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Speaker 3: tired and not doing well. But let me tell you, Washington,

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Speaker 3: DC is littered with the bodies of the young and

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Speaker 3: the song who thought they would take on Mitch McConnell.

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Speaker 1: And went yeah, Paul Ryan, I mean that whole crew

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Speaker 1: has gone.

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Speaker 2: The young guns, no more guns, no more young. They're out.

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Speaker 3: They're now disarmed and elderly and in exile. I think

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Speaker 3: there's a real argument to be made here that McConnell,

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Speaker 3: as much as people find him uncomfortable, or they find

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Speaker 3: their ideological priors are completely different, or they blame him

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Speaker 3: for any number of things, if you look at Washington

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Speaker 3: right now, there is a moment where Mitch McConnell and

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Speaker 3: Chuck Schumer could actually form a ad hoc temporary.

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Speaker 2: De facto alliance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah alliance, And honestly, I think from what I've seen

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Speaker 3: even among Republicans in the last in the Senate. In

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Speaker 3: the last couple of weeks, the normy's in the Senate,

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Speaker 3: and it's a smaller number than it was, but there's

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Speaker 3: still a plurality of the caucus. Right they're about done

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Speaker 3: with the bullshit about they don't like Mike Johnson. In fact,

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Speaker 3: I heard from a chief of staff from one of

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Speaker 3: the most conservative, not a Maga senator, but an old

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Speaker 3: mainline conservative, who said, Mike Johnson is absolutely poisoned. He

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Speaker 3: is a bad guy. We're not going to play this game.

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Speaker 3: We're not going to be part of the stunt casting.

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Speaker 3: And in the Senate's internal business, they're growing number of

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Speaker 3: senators who are like, Okay, we're done with Tommy Tumberville's bullshit.

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Speaker 1: Which right now, let's talk about Tommy Tubravel. She was

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Speaker 1: a coach from Alabama.

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Speaker 3: He coached at Miami for a while too. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if you ever heard about Miami back then, but

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Speaker 3: there are rumors that Tommy enjoyed what was on the

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Speaker 3: ground at Miami back then, if you take my meaning.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to touch that innuendo, but we are

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Speaker 1: going to say that he is holding this up because

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Speaker 1: he does not want military members to be reimbursed for

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Speaker 1: travel for abortion.

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Speaker 3: Right, and so he is frozen the pro of hundreds

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Speaker 3: and hundreds and hundreds of members of.

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Speaker 2: The service for months and months and months.

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Speaker 3: We're approaching six or seven months now on it, including

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Speaker 3: the commandant of the Marine Corps, including the commander of

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Speaker 3: the third MA Marie Division, including the commanders that would

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Speaker 3: be taking a part in the current deployment in the

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Speaker 3: Mediterranean of two aircraft carrier battlegroups in the Mediterranean, and

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Speaker 3: including a Marine three star general who suffered a heart

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Speaker 3: attack because he's been working literally twenty hours a day

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Speaker 3: to do to do job of the commandant and the

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Speaker 3: job that he's currently assigned to.

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Speaker 1: And this three star general who had the heart attack

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Speaker 1: is currently in the hospital. It did serve to make

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Speaker 1: people like Alaska's Senator Dan Sullivan, and also we saw

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Speaker 1: a couple of other Republicans come out really hard against Tubervail,

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Speaker 1: all of them saying that this was really unfair and

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Speaker 1: he was punishing the military.

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Speaker 2: Yes, in a crazy way.

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Speaker 3: Correct, And I will say this as neat as I can.

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Speaker 3: Tommy Tubberville's agenda here is quite frankly in service only

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Speaker 3: to a group of people who are in his staff

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Speaker 3: that I'm sort of getting some terrain on this. Now.

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Speaker 3: There are a group of people in his staff who

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Speaker 3: are these young, hyper alt right types who are pushing

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Speaker 3: this agenda, and the abortion thing is an excuse for them,

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Speaker 3: not a reason. They want to cause chaos in the

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Speaker 3: US military. They are Bannonites, they're burn it down type,

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Speaker 3: and what they're doing is very deliberately ranted towards trying

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Speaker 3: to break the US chain of command because they have

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Speaker 3: a belief that the military is just chuck full of

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Speaker 3: these Marxist Soros activists and they're going to burn it

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Speaker 3: all down. It is crazy.

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Speaker 2: Now here's my question, is it his staffers?

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Speaker 1: Is this like a die Fi situation where the staff

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Speaker 1: is running the asylum? Because Tommy Tuberville seems like the

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Speaker 1: Louis Gohmert of the Senate.

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Speaker 2: He seems real dumb.

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Speaker 3: Tommy Tuberville is easily overcome by inanimate objects. Tommy Turberville

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Speaker 3: could not operate a coaster of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my think.

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Speaker 3: He is the guy who knows how to how to

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Speaker 3: coach sportball. But that is the limit of Tommy Tuberville's

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Speaker 3: knowledge experience, and he's been given a set of talking

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Speaker 3: points to go out and repeat this stuff about abortion tourism. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: no one is doing abortion tourism, Tommy, dummy. But look,

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Speaker 3: the people that are the most thrilled by this aren't

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Speaker 3: even the abortion people. People that are most thrilled by

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Speaker 3: this are the Chinese and the Iranians and the Russians.

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Speaker 3: Because he is recapping the American military is leaving our

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Speaker 3: troops without leadership in the field. This is now to

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Speaker 3: the point where Tommy Tuberville is a national security threat.

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Speaker 3: And unfortunately the people of Alabama, even though, by the way, everybody,

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Speaker 3: he does not live in Alabama. He lives in Florida.

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Speaker 3: Their joke about him being the third Senator from Florida

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Speaker 3: is actually real. He does not live in his home state.

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Speaker 1: What would be the play here? They're doing a couple

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Speaker 1: of the appointments, you know, on a voice so too yesterday,

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Speaker 1: I'm more today, I more this. You know, they're going

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Speaker 1: to do a bunch. But what's the play here? I mean,

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Speaker 1: is there a way to go?

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Speaker 2: I mean, could you change that?

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Speaker 1: You need sixty votes to change the center rules? I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you think there are nine Republicans who are willing

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Speaker 1: to go along with like Tuoburville must be stopped.

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Speaker 3: Well, from what I've told right now, there are six,

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Speaker 3: and I don't want to say their names because I

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Speaker 3: don't think that that helps the fight right now, and

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Speaker 3: I don't want any to be mobbed. I think there

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Speaker 3: are six. I think we're very close to adding enough

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Speaker 3: to get over the line. It is going to be

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Speaker 3: a big blood bath. I suspect that what's going to

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Speaker 3: have to happen is it's going to have to happen

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Speaker 3: while they're in session on the floor in a in

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Speaker 3: like a quick march order with a very closed kind

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Speaker 3: of rule, that that's all that it applies to, and

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Speaker 3: that they're going to bring it in, sweep the place clean,

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Speaker 3: and blow Tupperville away. But if the names of the

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Speaker 3: all of them were known ahead of time, Box would

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Speaker 3: start to drumbeat all that garbage.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back for Armena and just talk

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Speaker 1: about the House. The government is funded till November seventeenth.

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Speaker 1: This Israel aid package is already Schumer said it dies

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Speaker 1: in the Senate, right, it does in the Senate. Mitch

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Speaker 1: mcconnald doesn't like it. Biden said he's going to be

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Speaker 1: to it. So this goes nowhere. So now does Mike

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Speaker 1: Johnson now spend the next two weeks just hitting his

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Speaker 1: head against the wall, or do you think he tries

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Speaker 1: something bipartisan.

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Speaker 3: Look, Mike is under the same problematic rule that took

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Speaker 3: out Kevin, and he ends that if he crosses Gates

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Speaker 3: and the rest of the pro Russia pro Putin.

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Speaker 1: Coalition, the one person motioned to vakate MATC. Gates will

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Speaker 1: do it again.

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Speaker 3: Right, They'll vacate. They'll burn it all down again and

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Speaker 3: start the clock over. Here's the moment that I think

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Speaker 3: that Johnson's really going to be tested on. They don't

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Speaker 3: want a spending bill. As much as they claim they

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Speaker 3: don't want to do CRS, they also don't want to

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Speaker 3: do an actual budget because that puts them under the

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Speaker 3: spotlight and it shows exactly how much each of them is.

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Speaker 3: You know, I hate spending. And then they asked for Oh,

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Speaker 3: by the way, I need a bridge in my district.

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Speaker 3: I need this, I need that, I need this, I

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Speaker 3: need that. The problem with dedicating yourself to the forces

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Speaker 3: of chaos is that when the bill comes due, everybody's

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Speaker 3: looking around like who's going to take out the credit

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Speaker 3: card first? And the chaos monkeys? They want the restaurant

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Speaker 3: or to come in and stay. I'm calling the cops.

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Speaker 3: They want they want the blow up, they want the shit.

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Speaker 3: The idea of operating the government is anathema to the

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Speaker 3: radical edge of the Bannonite movement. They want to burn

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Speaker 3: it down. And so what would they love to do.

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Speaker 3: They'd love to burn it down, pass no aid for

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Speaker 3: anybody blame Joe Biden called Joe Biden an anti Semite

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Speaker 3: because he wouldn't do their specific bill. It's very predictable.

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Speaker 1: Molly, what's your money on a government shut down before

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Speaker 1: November of seventeenth.

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Speaker 3: Three to two odds?

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Speaker 2: Pretty good out, all right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think it would last a long time.

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Speaker 2: Because Republicans are going to be blamed for that.

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Speaker 3: Every time the government shutdown happens, the party in the

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Speaker 3: majority is blamed for it one hundred percent of the time.

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Speaker 3: And this particular shut down, and look, we know this

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Speaker 3: for a fact. Not one of these Republicans who bleme

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Speaker 3: eats about fiscal conservatism gives a good goddamn about the deficit.

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Speaker 3: They do not care. When they passed a one point

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Speaker 3: seven trillion dollar tax bill for Donald Trump. When you

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Speaker 3: did the analysis of it, it benefited about two hundred

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Speaker 3: super high net worth individuals and families in this country.

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Speaker 3: Majority of the benefit went to about two hundred individuals

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Speaker 3: and families and companies. So they don't really care about it.

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Speaker 3: But like back in my days as a Republican, when

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Speaker 3: we talked about fiscal responsibility, I actually thought we meant it.

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Speaker 3: We didn't. We meant the preservation of tax cuts for

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Speaker 3: a narrow sector of the economy. As a legitimate conservative,

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Speaker 3: not a fake like fake orgasm conservative, you know, if

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Speaker 3: you're going to have fiscal responsibility, it has to be

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Speaker 3: applied equally to everyone. So right now, the Trump tax

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Speaker 3: bill has expired. So the tiny trickle that helped the

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Speaker 3: middle class and the Trump tax bill it ages out.

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Speaker 3: It's gone. It disappears this year, So next year everybody's

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Speaker 3: taxes go up except for us super wealthiest. If they're

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Speaker 3: willing to shut down the government so that those things

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Speaker 3: can be preserved, that tells you everything about.

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Speaker 1: Just one last thing. Dessanda's lips. Is this more embarrassing

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Speaker 1: than Scott Walker's presidential run?

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Speaker 3: Discuss this makes Scott Walker's presidential run look like Ronald Reagan.

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Speaker 3: This so embarrassing and look, I wrote a piece about

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Speaker 3: this on my subset called little Boots. This will forever

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Speaker 3: be his brand, This will be the thing that he

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Speaker 3: is forever remembered by. Okay, this is like Ed Musky

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Speaker 3: crying in front of the press.

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Speaker 2: Is decaucus than the tank.

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Speaker 3: Is decaucus in the tank, and it makes decaucus in

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Speaker 3: the tank look like Churchill on the floor of Parliament

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Speaker 3: blasting the knos. It is so beyond the valley of

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Speaker 3: just embarrassing and horrible. And he will never live this down.

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Speaker 1: If you are working on this campaign and you had

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Speaker 1: a candidate who was wearing lifts, would you just never

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Speaker 1: have led.

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Speaker 2: Him wear lifts.

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Speaker 3: I would never have let him wear lifts. There was

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Speaker 3: some talk during the Bush and Gore race early on

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Speaker 3: of do you tell w to put on some higher

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Speaker 3: heeled shoes or whatever. Now w wore cowboy boots organically

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Speaker 3: as a fucking text.

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Speaker 2: You can see lived in Texas and he is about I.

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Speaker 3: Don't know, a Bush, about six foot, I guess. But

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Speaker 3: Gore was huge, course a big tall guy. And there's

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Speaker 3: this idea that like Al Gore was gonna be so

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Speaker 3: tall over him on the stage, and Bush himself was like,

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Speaker 3: get the fuck out of here, come on, And ironically

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Speaker 3: this idea that you had to make the stantus like

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Speaker 3: go from five to seven or five to eight or

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Speaker 3: five to night whatever the height Hea is to six

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Speaker 3: foot you know, like I'm five eleven okay, like every

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Speaker 3: day fucking profile in America and earlier Wilson fly too.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm an actual five to ten without fancy

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Speaker 3: high heel shoes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I love that you have to ment and mention this.

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Speaker 1: We are, by the way, the same height you and I. Well.

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Speaker 2: Sommer is a reporter at the Washington Post.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back too Fast Politics, my friend and yours potentially, Will.

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Speaker 4: Sommer, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 5: I think of you.

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Speaker 1: As the guy who knows what is happening in the

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Speaker 1: darkest corners of the Internet.

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Speaker 2: I want to start by.

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Speaker 5: Talking about a piece you just wrote because the.

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Speaker 1: Darkest corners of the Internet happened to dovetail with the

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Speaker 1: Republicans in the House discuss.

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Speaker 6: I wrote this piece during sort of the speakership chaos,

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Speaker 6: before Mike Johnson emerged as the victor, and just sort

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Speaker 6: of this is the story about how the right wing

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Speaker 6: media and the world of you know, whether it's Sean

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Speaker 6: Hannity's show on Fox or Steve Bannon's show, which I

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Speaker 6: believe is on Real America's Voice.

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Speaker 5: You know that, you know, Real America's Voice.

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Speaker 4: We all love that one.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, how they sort of contribute to the chaos because

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Speaker 6: it gives an outsized amount of power to this this

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Speaker 6: kind of Matt Gatsey and fringe in that they can

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Speaker 6: go on Steve Bannon's show and say, this random congressman

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Speaker 6: from Arkansas is not voting for Jim Jordan the way

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Speaker 6: we want, so you need to call his office and

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Speaker 6: pressure him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like this is trump is We saw

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Speaker 1: it like with death threats in twenty seventeen, twenty.

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Speaker 5: Sixteen, fifty and like, you know, you have to support

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Speaker 5: our guy.

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Speaker 1: We haven't seen like this kind of top down bullying

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Speaker 1: on like procedural votes before.

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Speaker 4: It's really weird.

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Speaker 6: I mean watching these shows and they would be it

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Speaker 6: would be like Patrick McHenry's holding up the vote to

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Speaker 6: get to the floor tonight and then you see and

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Speaker 6: you know it is not clear that there's a tie here,

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Speaker 6: but then all the amount of like threats and death

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Speaker 6: threats to Republican members of Congress and and their wives

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Speaker 6: who if they weren't voting for Jim Jordan.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's as far as I know.

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Speaker 6: I mean, it's unheard of, certainly since the modern era,

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Speaker 6: that the average sort of grassroots activist would be disinvolved

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Speaker 6: in whether the vote is going to the floor tonight

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Speaker 6: or tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: Right? Is this a sort of interest in governance? Are

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Speaker 1: these people more interested in the nuts and bolts of

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Speaker 1: the federal government? This cannot be.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's that. I don't think it's that

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Speaker 4: everyone got the Almanac of American.

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Speaker 6: Politics Christmas and now they're all fired up.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 6: I think it's that the speaker's race, like so many

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Speaker 6: other things, has been sort of subsumed into the rights

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Speaker 6: cultural war within itself. And because really, you know, someone

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Speaker 6: like Steve Scalise is not all that different from someone

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Speaker 6: like Jim Jordan ideologically, but you know, it's sort of

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Speaker 6: this attitude, and it's this idea that Jim Jordan was

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Speaker 6: willing to risk it all in a way that Steve

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Speaker 6: Scalise was not. And so you have someone like Steve

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Speaker 6: Bannon who really wants to I think feel that he

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Speaker 6: had his role in this process. So he riles up

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Speaker 6: what he calls the war room posse to go, you know,

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Speaker 6: deluge these congressmen with calls, and ultimately that's I did

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Speaker 6: succeed because they got this really far right wing guy

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Speaker 6: and Mike Johnson to be the speaker.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so Mike Johnson looks like Paul Ryan, but he

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Speaker 1: acts like Sydney Powell. And this is my takeaway. But

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Speaker 1: I feel like you've looked at him from a different angle.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to tell you my hot take and

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Speaker 1: then you're gonna.

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Speaker 5: Tell me why I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: Or perhaps I'm right, but I might get more out

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Speaker 1: of being wrong. This is a guy who was a

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Speaker 1: religious zealot Christian extremist, then in twenty twenty saw an

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Speaker 1: opportunity by writing this Amakus Brief to get involved or

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Speaker 1: trying to overturn the election for our man, not mine,

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Speaker 1: but his man, Donald Trump. Then has become a sort

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Speaker 1: of right wing media fever pitch.

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Speaker 5: Kind of guy. Is that what this is? Or is that?

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Speaker 5: Am I wrong?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: No, I mean I think that's more or less like

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Speaker 6: you're right on. This is a guy who was basically

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Speaker 6: a backbencher. Very few people were aware of this guy

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Speaker 6: who comes from a real like Christian nationalist background, a

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Speaker 6: lot of anti gay stuff in his past, a lot

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Speaker 6: of just this idea that you know, America is like

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Speaker 6: a very affirmatively Christian nation, that that is sort of

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Speaker 6: key to what it is to be American. And then

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Speaker 6: he emerges from you know, relative obscurity in twenty twenty

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Speaker 6: he sort of came up with what was sort of

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Speaker 6: the thinking man's election denial, right, And so, you know,

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Speaker 6: on one hand, you have someone like Sidney Powell or

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Speaker 6: Mike Lindell who's ranting and raving and saying, you know,

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Speaker 6: a supercomputer stole the election, or dominion did it. And

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Speaker 6: I believe Mike Johnson got a little bit of the

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Speaker 6: dominion stuff. But his idea was, well, what if we

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Speaker 6: say the election has to be overturned because certain states

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Speaker 6: changed their election laws in ways we don't like to allow,

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Speaker 6: you know, more male and voting perhaps or early voting.

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Speaker 6: People might notice this when Republican members of Congress who

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Speaker 6: are not like really on the fringe of the fringe,

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Speaker 6: when they're asked, do you think the election was stolen?

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Speaker 6: They'll say, well, I think there were a lot of

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Speaker 6: like weird voting law changes, and it's like, well, that's

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Speaker 6: not what anyone means by the election was stolen.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the laws changed, and.

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Speaker 2: You didn't like it.

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Speaker 6: You know, we're talking about like mail trucks full of

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Speaker 6: fake ballots rolling up and stuff like that. But in

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Speaker 6: this case, so yes, he sort of came up with

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Speaker 6: the polite version of trying to steal the election.

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Speaker 1: It is interesting because the election thing, the fac the

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Speaker 1: fake electors lying about the election, which has become the

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Speaker 1: Republican party line, and that really was something that was

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Speaker 1: dreamed up in the sort of fever swamp that you.

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Speaker 1: Sorry to tell you, I still consider you to be

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Speaker 1: a person who lives in I do.

443
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 4: I love it, Molly, I have a high tolerance for it.

444
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: Are you surprised at how well that lie took and

445
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 1: how much it sort of growned the mainstream or did

446
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 1: you sort of expect this?

447
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 6: I mean, honestly, yeah, I mean, even as someone who

448
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 6: has really been up at sort of the right of

449
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 6: the face of all this action, I mean every step

450
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 6: of the way, I've been surprised with how the Republican

451
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 6: Party has really allowed these conspiracy theories, including election denial.

452
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 6: It's really fester. I mean I remember on election night

453
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 6: when Trump got up and said, well, I didn't.

454
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 4: Lose and they stolen.

455
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,159
Speaker 6: I thought, oh geez, it's something that you could have

456
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 6: seen coming, but still felt like a real crossing the

457
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 6: rubicon moment. And then at each step as the GOP

458
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 6: really welcomed that in and now it's really you know,

459
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 6: the mainstream line. I mean, taking it back to Mike Johnson,

460
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 6: we saw that after his at the press conference where

461
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,479
Speaker 6: he was asked, you know, after he was selected as

462
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 6: their nominee, after he was asked, do you still think

463
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,360
Speaker 6: the election was stolen? I mean it's something they don't

464
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 6: really want to address because they know the base thinks

465
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 6: the election was stolen and Trump does. But they realized

466
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 6: that the average person thinks that's crazy. And so when

467
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 6: the reporter that, then everyone goes so shut up. You know, hey,

468
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 6: you know what a rude thing to bring up.

469
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was incredible, I have to say, because it

470
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 1: did feel like they have a problem, right, They have

471
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: this problem which is the thing that the base loves,

472
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: alienates and my instream voter.

473
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 6: Yeah exactly, And I mean that's something that you see

474
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 6: over and over is that I certainly saw on the

475
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 6: speaker's race, was this idea that the person the base

476
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,479
Speaker 6: wants who is just this like like someone like Jim Jordan,

477
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 6: who's you know, most famous for just like owning liberals

478
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 6: in his viral videos and hearings. That's not going to

479
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,439
Speaker 6: appeal to the average voter, but you know, they're kind

480
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 6: of locked in this thing. I mean, it's the same

481
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 6: thing we're seeing with Trump and and honestly, I think

482
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 6: the genius of getting Mike Johnson is that he's a

483
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 6: guy very few people even in the Republican Party knew about,

484
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 6: and that he has a very bland name, and so

485
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 6: I mean I think that it is sort of a

486
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 6: name that goes in and out of your head, and

487
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 6: so it makes it hard for people to think, you know,

488
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 6: a name like McCarthy's, scalies, even Jim Jordan is a

489
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 6: name that I think sticks with people more so it's

490
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 6: like a bit more of an enigma to the average voter.

491
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny because it's like I think about, you know,

492
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: just strategically, if I were a Democratic dread just which

493
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: I'm very much not, I would be nervous about Republicans

494
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: picking someone like a Tom Emer.

495
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 5: Or even as Steve Scalise.

496
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: It's very right wing, but like sort of affable and

497
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 1: likable and not too crazy. Even though in my heart

498
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 1: of hearts, I want them to pick someone like that

499
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: so government can work. It seems like it would help

500
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: them more in this election season to pick someone normal

501
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: who you could have out there on the step, seeming

502
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: like Republicans hadn't lost their goddamn minds. But they absolutely

503
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: did not have any interest in that person.

504
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 4: No, no, exactly.

505
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 6: I mean, like I said, I mean when I looked

506
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 6: at sites like the Gateway Pundit or when I watched

507
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 6: t Bannon show, I mean, there is a sense that,

508
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 6: you know, and this is how sort of the GOP's

509
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 6: activist fringe has managed to drive the party, you know,

510
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 6: at least since the Tea Party movement, is that they

511
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 6: just want it more and they're more intense, and you know,

512
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 6: the moderates end up as they did, you know, I mean,

513
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 6: this was this idea that with Jim Jordan and the

514
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 6: moderates were so concerned.

515
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,479
Speaker 4: Because they didn't want an election, deny or and all

516
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 4: this stuff.

517
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 6: And then you get Mike Johnson, who's one of the

518
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 6: architects of trying to steal the electure.

519
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 4: They go, okay, so let's talk for.

520
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: A minute about what happens on Steve Bannon's show. A

521
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: little bit obsessed with Steve Bannon Show because it is

522
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: I mean, I want you to explain to us, like

523
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 1: how many people watch it and why it seems to

524
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 1: be setting the agenda on some And again, I don't

525
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: want to say anything nice about Steve Bannon here, except

526
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to say one nice thing about Steve Bannon,

527
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: which is he's very smart. A lot of these people

528
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: are very stupid and who sort of fall into this

529
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 1: like a Sean Hannity, But this guy is actually quite smart,

530
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: which is why he's so dangerous discussed.

531
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, like, look, this is a guy who

532
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 6: certainly loves to participate in his own self mythologizing.

533
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 4: But you know, he is a very active player. I

534
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 4: mean he's in DC.

535
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 6: I think his studio is in Capitol Hill, so it's

536
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 6: very close by for members of Congress like Gates who

537
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 6: want to swing by. And I mean he was very

538
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 6: engaged during the Speaker's race and saying, you know, telling

539
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 6: the you know it's called war rooms.

540
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 4: You know, he has members of Congress.

541
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 6: He has sort of a rotating cast of sort of

542
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 6: like Trump administration leftovers who come on and are sort of,

543
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 6: you know, hawking their own things. One thing I think

544
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 6: is interesting about Bannon is he's a guy who's willing

545
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 6: to try to sort of make new issues on the right.

546
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 6: Like he was a big activist against transhumanism, so the

547
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 6: idea that you know, we're going to merge with robots,

548
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 6: and so he's been really like pushing that and it

549
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 6: may not still be the case, but on his website,

550
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 6: the big issues, it was used to say, election, pandemic,

551
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 6: and transhumanism.

552
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 4: He's really sort of a pioneer in these ideas.

553
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: Right, Matt Gates has emerged as the reason why Kevin

554
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: McCarthy is not the Speaker of the House anymore. What

555
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: do you think a Matt Gates' endgame is and why

556
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: do you think Matt Gates would so set on removing mcarthy.

557
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 6: It is interesting, I mean, you know, perhaps his endgame.

558
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 6: I mean there's talk that he wants to run for

559
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 6: a governor of Florida. He does seem to love getting

560
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 6: attention and power, like many politicians, I guess, I mean,

561
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 6: we all remember that, you know, he grew up in

562
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 6: the Truman show House where The Truman Show was filmed,

563
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 6: and so he's.

564
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 4: A quirky guy. I guess what I try to say.

565
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 6: But you know, I think there was like some personal

566
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 6: enmity in the fact that he just sort of wanted

567
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 6: a head because, as you said, I mean, it doesn't

568
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 6: really make a ton of sense to get rid of

569
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 6: Kevin McCarthy and then throw the GOP into chaos for

570
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 6: a month. But at the same time, he was also

571
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 6: you know, reportedly very mad that McCarthy had allowed this

572
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 6: ethics investigation into him, and so that he you know,

573
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 6: he wanted to take him out for that.

574
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 5: It is just incredible stuff.

575
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: There seems to be like a schism between Marjorie Taylor

576
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: Green and Lauren Bopert.

577
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well this is a very intense schism.

578
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, how did this happen?

579
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 3: Sure?

580
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 6: So, I mean, you know, you hate to see two

581
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 6: QAnon believers by.

582
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 5: It, just hate to see it.

583
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean you have.

584
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 6: Two women with sort of like outsize personalized as well.

585
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 6: I think this dates back to when McCarthy was first

586
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 6: getting elected as speaker, and I think Marjorie Taylor Green

587
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 6: seems to have figured, well, there's an advantage for me

588
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 6: in cutting a deal with McCarthy and being one of

589
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 6: his lieutenants rather than fighting him in something that he's.

590
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 4: Eventually going to win.

591
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 6: And Bobert chose the opposite side, teamed up with Matt Gates,

592
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 6: and then throughout we then see I believe my colleague,

593
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 6: my former colleague Zact Beatrizza at the Daily Beast had

594
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 6: some reporting. I mean, this got to the point that

595
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 6: they had an argument in the women's room one of

596
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 6: the restrooms at the Capitol where they were kind of,

597
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 6: you know, really getting intense with each other. And so,

598
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 6: I mean, this is like a very legit and ongoing feud,

599
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,239
Speaker 6: and I believe there were some tweets about it. I mean,

600
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 6: so it is interesting because you know, from the outside,

601
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 6: they you would think of them as very similar politically

602
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 6: and temperamentally. But I think Marjorie Taylor Green has proved

603
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 6: herself to be sort of a more adept political player

604
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 6: because we think about Lauren Bobert, she's kind of playing

605
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 6: second fiddle to Matt Gates and that whole crew. She's

606
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 6: kind of part of this crew that includes like Paul

607
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 6: Gosar and Louis Gohmer and all these characters. Martor Taylor

608
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 6: Green's kind of on her own path. And also, you know,

609
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 6: Marjorie Taylor Green does not have a video of herself

610
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 6: getting a little wild at beetlejuice, right, And so I

611
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 6: think that show some more wisdom as well, by the way.

612
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 5: A terrifying conversation that chows more wisdom.

613
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: But I do know what you're saying. I mean, it

614
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: does seem likely that Lauren Bobert is going to lose

615
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: her seat.

616
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, she barely got it last year twenty twenty two,

617
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 6: and she really only has added on more and more

618
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 6: scandal since then.

619
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 4: And so I mean, we'll have to see. I mean,

620
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 4: it's not looking great, I would.

621
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 5: Say, in the house.

622
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: Besides those two, you have this new speaker. Then you

623
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 1: have sort of the kind of ken Buck v. The

624
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 1: crazies talk about that dynamic because it seems like ken

625
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: Buck is the Mitt Romney of the House.

626
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.

627
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 6: I mean you have the situation where you have Ken

628
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 6: Buck and a few other members of Congress or Republicans

629
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 6: who just seem to be really fed up with it,

630
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 6: and you know, and like Mitt Romney Now ken Buck

631
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 6: says he won't run for reelection, right, and so I

632
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 6: think like Romney Buck appears to have realized, you know, geez,

633
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 6: like the crazies really are in control of this party

634
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 6: and it's not going to be fixed anytime soon.

635
00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 4: As just calling it quits.

636
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like there's a Maga crew in the

637
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: Senate that is Ted Cruz, jd Vance and sort of

638
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: are you seeing that and what does that look like?

639
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 3: Yeah?

640
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 6: Sure, I mean jd Vance, Josh Hawley, Right, I mean

641
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 6: in the case of Jady Vance, certainly he's sort of

642
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 6: the hero of what a lot of young Republican activists

643
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 6: call the new Right, which is to say, sort of

644
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 6: a proto fascist right, and that it is very focused on.

645
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 6: If you think about the difference between them and maybe

646
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 6: you know you're more traditional hard right Republican, is that

647
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 6: they feel, the young folks and jd Vance feel that

648
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 6: the previous set was did not crush their enemies enough.

649
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 6: And so that's why they love or loved Ron DeSantis

650
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 6: because they saw him as someone who, you know, I'm

651
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 6: gonna you know, strip Disney World down plank by plank

652
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 6: and stuff like that. But then you know, we've already

653
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 6: seen a lot of that movement implode, at least in

654
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 6: this collection cycle. I mean, Ron DeSantis did awfully. Nate Hawkman,

655
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 6: who is this young hero of the New Right, he

656
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 6: joined the DeSantis campaign and then got fired for making

657
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 6: the video with the Nazi symbolism.

658
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 4: You know, it's funny.

659
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: Because Nazi symbolism is not funny, and none of this

660
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: is funny, but it is also just so stupid.

661
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 5: It's amazing, it's.

662
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 6: So crazy, like why would you yeah, you know, let's

663
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 6: just put I mean, it's how Internet addled these guys are,

664
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 6: and how within their own universe they are that they're like, well,

665
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 6: why don't we just slip this Son and rad In

666
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 6: and we're gonna have kind of these liked Santi's stormtroopers marching.

667
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 4: Thought'll be fine. I don't think anyone will mind that.

668
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 6: And so that is sort of the movement that Jade

669
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 6: Vance has seen as this hero of that. These are

670
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 6: the people who call for an American Caesar, right, because

671
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 6: you can't if you say an American Hitler or American Mussolini,

672
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 6: people won't like that. But you can say, oh, I

673
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 6: like Caesarism, right, Yeah, Caesarism that's great.

674
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: I have sort of one last question for you, which

675
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: is the people who went on DeSantis World, because there

676
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: was a sort of schism, right people, A lot of

677
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: Trump people, not a lot, but some Trump people went

678
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: off to Santas World.

679
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 5: Can they come back to Trump World or is it

680
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 5: over for them?

681
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 6: I think it depends. I think it depends how aggressive

682
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 6: some of them were. I mean, you have people like

683
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 6: the guys on Twitter, like John Cardillo, dave Reeboy, these

684
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 6: kind of like bald musclemen, middle aged types in Florida,

685
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 6: these guys who just really like jousted with the sort

686
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 6: of the the Maga die hards that your Laura Lumer types.

687
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 6: You're like, these these people who I mean, they will

688
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 6: die for Trump. And that's what Dessanta's doesn't have, is

689
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 6: that he doesn't have these people who are willing to

690
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 6: just look like absolute buffoons for him. And so for

691
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,719
Speaker 6: those guys, I think it's I mean, I don't think

692
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 6: they're coming back to Trump Land. I think they have

693
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 6: to become never Trump guys, but not in like a

694
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 6: Lincoln project way, like like I don't know if there's

695
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 6: going to be the Dassanta's Project afterwards for those guys

696
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 6: so that they could like find a living because really

697
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 6: they're stuck. And so The New York Times had a

698
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 6: story recently about the Dssanta's efforts to sort of take

699
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 6: over the MAGA social media universe and just how badly

700
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 6: they imploded in this idea. I mean, you see the

701
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 6: tweets wear I can't remember exactly what. Just recently they

702
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 6: were like it's been X number days since Donald Trump

703
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 6: had a flub.

704
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 4: This is the new flub counter and it's like, oh, brother.

705
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 6: You know, it reminds you of when Christy was like

706
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 6: I call him Donald Duck and it's like, you know,

707
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 6: there were so many meetings about it, and it just dies.

708
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 5: I call him Donald Duck. Will sommer, always a delight.

709
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 5: We'll never call you Donald Duck.

710
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 3: Thank you.

711
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 4: That means a lot, Molly, thank you.

712
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: Josh is the editor of the Endermentum newsletter. Welcome to

713
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: Fast Politics et Indermentum. Whose real name is Josh, and

714
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: we're interviewing you today. I'm a subscriber and a fan.

715
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you. You've been really chronicling

716
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: this incredible Republican Is it a primary?

717
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 5: It feels like it's not even a primary.

718
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 7: No, not really. I haven't read it about it since.

719
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 7: Like I think August I wrote like a series on

720
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 7: DeSantis and I kind of officially said his bid was dead.

721
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 7: When I started, I titled it The Art of Losing,

722
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 7: and it was that was like back in June, and

723
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 7: by the time, like I wrote, like, I was like

724
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 7: a couple months into it, I was already like, this

725
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 7: is kind of over a pound of sick of this.

726
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 7: But I finished that I gave kind of like my

727
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 7: opinion on him of that series. But I haven't red

728
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,479
Speaker 7: I don't think I've read about the primary since then.

729
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 7: I think it's kind of settled. The Trump has wanted.

730
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 7: It's pretty embarrassing there's they're still going through with it.

731
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 7: But like I have that series and I did on it,

732
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 7: but everything else is kind of just looking Republicans more

733
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 7: generally after that.

734
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going to talk about that in a minute.

735
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: But I was talking to a friend of mine who's

736
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: a journalist, and he was saying straight news journalist, and

737
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: he was saying he has to go to Miami for

738
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: the debate, and I was like, oh my god, they

739
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: are still having Republican debate.

740
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, I saw like DeSantis responding to like some news

741
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 7: stuff the other day, and it's like, I forgot he's

742
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 7: still alive.

743
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really weird by the way he just fell

744
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: down that Scott Walker Hale right where it's just if

745
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: you're a completely uncharismatic person, you should not run for president.

746
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's part of it. I'm still thinking now,

747
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: like how.

748
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 7: To write a porst mortem for that campaign. If he

749
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 7: could have done anything differently that it could have had

750
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 7: a different result, because he was pulling very well in

751
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 7: the winter earlier this year, but that obviously completely fell apart.

752
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,919
Speaker 7: And it's strange looking back, like why that was even

753
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 7: the case back then, what people kind of saw from

754
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 7: him and what they expected him to be. I think

755
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 7: if he wanted to have a chance of like putting

756
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 7: in a decent showing he had to be a lot

757
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,439
Speaker 7: more anti Trump than he actually was. He really tried

758
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 7: to appeal to everybody, ended up just alienating everybody.

759
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: This is like the fundamental problem that a lot of

760
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: these Republicans had. It's like the primary numbers were like

761
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: Trump and everybody else. So if you were going to

762
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: be a never Trump candidate, right, you could be a

763
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 1: never Trump, not the way Mitt Romney is never Trump,

764
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: but the way Ken Buck is never Trump. Right, they're similar,

765
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: but you're going to in it. In twenty twenty, twenty nineteen,

766
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: Democrats basically.

767
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 5: Cleared the field.

768
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: They were like, Joe Biden may not be my first choice,

769
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 1: but he is a candidate.

770
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 5: That reads like a white guy who can win.

771
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, he had the best numbers. I was a Bernie

772
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 7: supporter back then, but like even then, I was kind

773
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 7: of like looking at the polling there as like making

774
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 7: a calculated risk because like Bernie and Biden always pulled

775
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 7: the best versus Trump. It was like they always led

776
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 7: by seven or eight points and Biden led by it

777
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 7: like a quite higher than him. So like for my

778
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 7: personal calculation, like, oh, I think that Bernie like will

779
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 7: be better president than him, So I'm willing to take

780
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 7: that risk of one or two percent because they're leading

781
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 7: by so much. But like I wasn't under any illusions

782
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 7: that Biden was the most wasn't the most electable at

783
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 7: the time, Like the calculation that that was the main

784
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 7: thing that Prayorg has, Like it made sense, like from

785
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 7: some perspectives.

786
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 5: He seemed the most electable to you.

787
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: He was probably.

788
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny because it's like, I mean, I just

789
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 1: was like, as a Jew, I was like, we're never

790
00:35:59,440 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: going to have.

791
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 5: A two president.

792
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 3: No, it's so sad.

793
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: It was like, I like Bernie a lot, but like

794
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: the idea that we would have someone who literally looks

795
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: like one of my relatives as president, like seemed impossible.

796
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 4: It was so cool.

797
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 7: He felt like like he had the accent of everything.

798
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 7: He kind of had the attitude.

799
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, I mean he's like Larry David. So the

800
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 5: calculus was like, this is the guy. He may not

801
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 5: be your first choice, but he can win.

802
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 1: I mean, why couldn't Republicans do that with a nicky

803
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: Haley or someone I mean, I'm not saying the.

804
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 7: Satus would have made the most sense to do that.

805
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 7: Disantus actually had an incredible twenty twenty two. I really like,

806
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 7: if people don't recognize me or know my stuff, really

807
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 7: my I first got attention because I was one of

808
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 7: the people who said that there was not going to

809
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 7: be a red wave in twenty twenty two. I said

810
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 7: that Democrats want a lot stronger position. It wasn't like

811
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 7: the toughest call to make. There were a lot of

812
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 7: like side twenty that way, but it was surprisingly uncommon

813
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 7: for people to say that, So I was very vocal

814
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 7: in that and that got me some attention, which is kind.

815
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 2: Of where I am now.

816
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 7: And I was very down on how all the looking

817
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 7: performed everywhere, but the satists did undeniablely well. Like running

818
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 7: by twenty points in Florida is impressive. He won like

819
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 7: Miami and Palm Beach County. That's like not like nothing,

820
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 7: that's really those are good numbers, and none of the

821
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 7: other candidates in the race really have that kind of record,

822
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 7: but they all kind of ran anyway. I think it

823
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 7: was a mix of like they genuinely saw this as

824
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 7: like one of their last chances of new too, something

825
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 7: they always planned to and just went threw it.

826
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 3: Out of muscle memory.

827
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 7: Are there just trying to get a position in Trump's cabinet,

828
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 7: which I think is the case for some of them.

829
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 7: I think definitely for vec although things have looked a

830
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 7: little dicier for him than they did like a couple

831
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 7: months ago, so he had to do the Santis had.

832
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 7: First off, if he was a good politician, he would

833
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 7: have been able to clear the field like that. It

834
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 7: would that's just a prerequisite, like you need to get

835
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 7: people out of the race to promise them whatever you

836
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 7: show them the reality. He's just not like good at

837
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 7: that nuts and bald stuff. He never really has been

838
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 7: if you look at like my series on him.

839
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: He wasn't connecting with the like back ben chief Florida

840
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: Congress people had he wanted to work that he could have,

841
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, had people at the governor's mansion.

842
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 5: I mean there just was. He was not good at

843
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 5: the vote whipping part of politics.

844
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, nuts and bald stuff, not like not even ideological,

845
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 7: just like basic competency things. The one story that always

846
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 7: sticks with me is when he flew up the DC

847
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 7: to meet with a bunch of these Republicans and representatives

848
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 7: from Florida because he was kind of having a cold

849
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 7: war of endorsements with Trump that he lost very decisively,

850
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 7: but this was in the early stages of that, and

851
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 7: he met with these like congressmen in this hotel for

852
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 7: several hours, and those people came out and they said,

853
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 7: we endorsed Trump. So we actively did like made them

854
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 7: go away from him from spending that effort. And it's

855
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 7: something you can see just across his entire career. The

856
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 7: more people see of him, the less they like him,

857
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 7: except in Florida. I guess they're just weird.

858
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: Some of what happened in Florida is that the Democratic

859
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: Party fell off a cliff and they ran a guy

860
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: who was probably a uniquely bad candidate. Right he had

861
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: been a Republican.

862
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 7: Yeah, Christ was pretty poor. Both the lives, they ran

863
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 7: pretty poor candidates. Gillum in twenty eighteen got a lot

864
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 7: of attention, but looking back on it, he was actually

865
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 7: under like FBI investigation during the campaign, which might not

866
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 7: have been ideal, and he's still only narrowly lost. Christ

867
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 7: was just very, very Poortus, like most incumbent governers across

868
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 7: the country were popular. Desantus wasn't unique by any means

869
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 7: of having a strong year last year. I think Whitmer

870
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 7: actually had better numbers than him relative to how the

871
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 7: country was leading. Yeah, but nobody really ever talks about

872
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 7: that because of the media is sexist and they hate Whitmer.

873
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that for a minute, because

874
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: this is like a peccadillo of mine. Obviously daughter of

875
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: a second wave feminists, Like this is something I think

876
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: about a lot. Why is it that women politicians here's Whitmer.

877
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: She reads, and again, I'm going to say something that

878
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 1: people are not going to like, but I think it's right.

879
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 5: She reads in the least feminine way.

880
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: She plays up her sort of ability to seem like

881
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: a quote unquote normal politician, if that makes sense.

882
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, like her fixed the damn roads, the kind of

883
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 7: a very kind of.

884
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: Masculine energy, very careful, almost was the victim of an

885
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: enormously scary violent crime, very fucking tough, tough, tough, tough,

886
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: and still really gets all of the sexism.

887
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 7: Yeah, people just generally don't take that seriously. But also

888
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 7: because she didn't know when to shift gears when it

889
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 7: benefited her. When Dobbs came out, she was really the

890
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 7: one politician in the country who did the most to

891
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 7: engineer that to her benefit. She campaigned relentlessly on abortion.

892
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 7: She defined her opponent as zone anti abortion extreamist. She

893
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 7: was like spearheading effort to get an abortion referendum on

894
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 7: the ballot at the same time as her So she

895
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 7: wasn't like afraid to run away from that issue. She

896
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 7: saw it as successful and she really did it like

897
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 7: more better than anybody else in the country. I think

898
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 7: across the entire state Michigan shifted blue compared to twenty twenty.

899
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 7: It wasn't just her. She carried everybody across the line

900
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 7: and obviously got her trifecta from it. So it was

901
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 7: a uniquely like just well managed state party campaign there

902
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 7: that I think got kind of overlooked because people just said, oh,

903
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 7: generally democrats did well, some Democrats did well, some did

904
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 7: better than others, and she was definitely in the higher

905
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 7: end of that.

906
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 5: It sounds like it was the opposite of New York State.

907
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, give me the TLDR on twenty twenty eight.

908
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't get nobody get mad at me,

909
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: but who do you see as strong? I read a

910
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: piece in one of those political magazines that was like,

911
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: she's twenty twenty eight. Did you see that candidates are

912
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: buying in case they can manage to get Who do

913
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: you like for twenty twenty eight? Oh?

914
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 7: Well, I wrote, like, I'm a list of this actually

915
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 7: most few one. I don't want to go through everything,

916
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 7: but I have on Whitmer as the highest there by far.

917
00:41:58,960 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 3: I think she's kind of.

918
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 7: In a cheer of her own. If you're like a

919
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 7: left winger, she's not really anything totally new from what

920
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 7: you've seen Democrats before. She's very much a mainstream liberal.

921
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 7: But like really any analysis of her like kind of

922
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 7: my take on it is that she's a liberal who

923
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 7: can definitively win, like in terms of a lifetidentity. Nobody

924
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 7: really has her track record. She has a history of

925
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 7: using the power that she got through her savvy electoral

926
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 7: sort of approach for like very positive legislative gains in

927
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 7: a very tough legislative environment. She has one seed majorities

928
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 7: in both of the state houses there and has been

929
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 7: able to repeal Right to Work I think, codify Obamacare.

930
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 7: I think she did that two days ago, codifi Roe v. Wade,

931
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 7: and Michigan just like a very tremendously productive year they've

932
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 7: had there. So I don't think really anybody else has

933
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,799
Speaker 7: the combination of executive experience and demonstrated political competency that

934
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 7: she has. Warnock, I think as a Georgian I've always

935
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 7: been a fan of him. I'm still surprised that he's one,

936
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 7: not like two, but basically four elections for Warnock. Yeah,

937
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 7: he's had to work so hard. I saw him like

938
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 7: at a rally one time, he looked so tired. I

939
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 7: told him he was going to win so and I

940
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 7: was right. So that was a fun little moment.

941
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 5: He has really had to work it though.

942
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,919
Speaker 1: Let me ask you, when you look at this sort

943
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: of speakership battle, were you surprised?

944
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 2: Tell me?

945
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like they just had a moment

946
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: where they like, we can't embarrass ourselves anymore.

947
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 5: We just have to pick whoever it is.

948
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, that was my most recent article. But US politics,

949
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 7: I call it just good old fashioned political failure. That

950
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 7: wasn't everybody wants to chalk it up like, oh, Washington's dysfunctional,

951
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 7: Washington can get anything done. That was beyond that and

952
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 7: all of these instances. You just have these kind of

953
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 7: cases of Republicans being really like just stupid beyond like

954
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 7: an ideological level. The conclusion I kind of came to

955
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 7: when I was writing about this and like finishing that

956
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 7: piece was we're used to Republicans being evil or bad,

957
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 7: like pushing evil and bad policies, and we can still

958
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 7: fear them because evil and bad people can be very

959
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 7: competent and savvy, right, But this new Republican Party isn't

960
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 7: like they're not just bad, but they're also dumb. So

961
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 7: it's not just their policies are bad. Their policies are

962
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 7: just stupid, and you believe in enough stupid policies, eventually

963
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 7: you just become stupid yourself, and you get to a

964
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 7: point where you're like Jim Jordan and you're like having

965
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,439
Speaker 7: your supporter send death threats to the people who won't

966
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 7: vote for you and blaming them for that, embarrassing yourself

967
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 7: on a national stage. Are you Steve Scalise and you're

968
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 7: at the apex of your career you can't even articulate

969
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 7: why you should be speaker? Are Tom Emmer and God

970
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 7: just hates you and you have to drop out after

971
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 7: four hours. It's not even like that they just believe

972
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 7: in bad things that they're not popular. They're just personally

973
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 7: stupid to the point where they can't even selfishly seek

974
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 7: power the way that they used to be able to.

975
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: We keep finding them sort of unable to deliver for

976
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 1: them besides their voters, for themselves.

977
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's the difference, because it used to be that

978
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 7: these guys could personally benefit from being in power. Now

979
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 7: they just can't really accomplish anything.

980
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is like the thing I think about a

981
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: lot is here we are. We have this guy. He

982
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to do the speaker job at all.

983
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: He's hired two people from Fox News to be in

984
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:14,879
Speaker 1: his team, right, he didn't hire like.

985
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 7: He's a total hicic dumb ass. I can say this

986
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 7: is a Southerner. He just like is really just one

987
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 7: of those stupid people that you see you are involved

988
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 7: in right wing politics?

989
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 5: Were this me?

990
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,919
Speaker 1: And I woke up one day and was like, holy shit,

991
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: I'm the Speaker of the House.

992
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 5: I'm completely unprepared for this job.

993
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: I have no idea who anyone is. I cannot whip votes.

994
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: Nobody knows who I am. I just met miss McConnell.

995
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 5: This is like America's worst anxiety dream.

996
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you just hire all of the smart people who

997
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: worked for McCarthy, who is also a moron? Like, wouldn't

998
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: you yeah, instead of pulling out people from Fox News.

999
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 5: I mean, what's the thinking here?

1000
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 7: I think the one thing with Mike Johnson that makes

1001
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 7: them particularly important here is that he genuinely believes in

1002
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 7: like God and thinks that like he's fulfilling some kind

1003
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 7: of large like he's a younger creationist. He thinks that

1004
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 7: the earth is six thousand years old. He genuinely believes

1005
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 7: in this stuff and what he wanted. He probably thought like, well,

1006
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 7: that's probably just because God is rewarding me for all

1007
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 7: the other stuff that I did before. So I imagine

1008
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 7: he has a tremendous level of confidence where he thinks

1009
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 7: he's being divinely rewarded for being a massive homophob for

1010
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 7: his entire life. And he's just thinking like, well, this

1011
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 7: is going well, why don't I just continue with what

1012
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 7: I'm doing. The thing is, what he was doing before

1013
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 7: was at a really low level, and when you're at

1014
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 7: this higher stage, you have to be very tactful in

1015
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 7: what you say and very like measured and strategic. So

1016
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 7: he's just going out there and singing like, oh yeah,

1017
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 7: Joe Biden, this guy who I'm gonna have to work

1018
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,959
Speaker 7: with for the next year. I think he's seen Aisle.

1019
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 7: He's just gonna personally insult him.

1020
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 5: Not brilliant.

1021
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'll pass the israel A that everybody sports. If

1022
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 7: you let us take money away from the irs so

1023
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 7: rich people cannot pay taxes, and then that gets revealed

1024
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 7: to cost more money than it'll save. It's just like

1025
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 7: a baseline level of incompetence there that makes you really

1026
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 7: realize why this guy was like a last its choice.

1027
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right. You think he's able to

1028
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: stick around just the Israel AID stuff.

1029
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 5: I think there are.

1030
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: People in the Senate who believe they can put together

1031
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,240
Speaker 1: a package and then bring it back to the House

1032
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: and get the bipartisan vote. I mean, are Republicans willing

1033
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: to die on this? Hell they love Israel?

1034
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't think so. The question will be I

1035
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,240
Speaker 7: think if it's going to be a combined Ukraine Israel

1036
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 7: package or if they're going to be split. And the

1037
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 7: Ukraine stuff is obviously like a lot more contentious in

1038
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 7: terms of passing than the Israel stuff is. The offsetting

1039
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 7: it is completely dead on arrival. It's politically unpopular. That's

1040
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 7: just a complete stunt and looks embarrassing.

1041
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's dead on arrival. So what was the

1042
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 5: point of doing that?

1043
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 7: He's just not It's like what I said, like these

1044
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 7: guys believe in dumb stuff, and at a certain point

1045
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 7: they just are kind of dumb themselves, like they live

1046
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 7: in an echoed chamber. They think that everybody thinks the

1047
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 7: way that they do, and they misinterpreted the reason why

1048
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 7: they wanted the past, and they think that just doing

1049
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 7: far right stunts is like going to get people interested.

1050
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 7: When Jim Jordan said, according to Politico that like he

1051
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 7: was trying to threaten least and he said America wants me,

1052
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 7: I think he sincerely thinks that America does want him, because,

1053
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,879
Speaker 7: like you think, these guys are looking at like what

1054
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 7: normal people think. They're just looking at like their supporters.

1055
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 7: They have a bunch of yes men around them. They're

1056
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 7: kind of atrophying into a party that would be one

1057
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 7: that you'd expect to be organized around Trump, which is

1058
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 7: just not very confident.

1059
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: Thank you, no moment, Wilson.

1060
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm here for all your fuckery needs.

1061
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 2: Do you have a moment of.

1062
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 3: You know, I have a moment of fuckery from Thursday

1063
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 3: watching Eric fail Son, absolutely the best bed for the

1064
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 3: Trump family, absolutely losed his mind and blow it on

1065
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 3: the stand. You had to know that in Donald Trump's head,

1066
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 3: like everything was validated at that moment about how shittingly

1067
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 3: he treats Eric, because Eric literally not have made a

1068
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 3: dumber set of statements in the course of that appearance.

1069
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 3: Although the secondary moment of fuckery that's coming is Avoka

1070
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 3: has to testify, He's gonna struggle with a set of

1071
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 3: feelings of betrayal, hatred, and arousal all at once.

1072
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: I have to say that the Evanka, she gets my

1073
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,720
Speaker 1: moment of rockery because she said she couldn't testify during

1074
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:23,760
Speaker 1: the school week.

1075
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 2: I have three children. They do go to school. But

1076
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 2: she moved to Miami is not very far from New York.

1077
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 2: That's like a two hour flight.

1078
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: You could theoretically, and you know, I don't know if

1079
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: you know this, but her father has a lot of

1080
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: real estate in New York. She could fly on his

1081
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: plane and be back for dinner the next night.

1082
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 3: I would be remis if I failed to mention that

1083
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 3: Evanka has an army of Nanny Cook's gardeners, drivers, health servants, ladies' maids,

1084
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 3: under butlers, butlers, the entire Downton abbey f constellation of

1085
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 3: household staff. And give me a break.

1086
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 1: We think that Ivanka does not need to take the

1087
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: school week from testifying.

1088
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, And if you think of Vodka is sitting

1089
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 3: at home with a little Kushner Sprague saying okay, honey,

1090
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 3: have you finished all your homework? No? They have some

1091
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 3: sort of staff or in house to deal with that.

1092
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 3: I for you. So that is our moment of cook right,

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Speaker 3: A glorious, glittering moment of trumpy and fuckery.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Rex, thank you, thank you. That's it for

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Speaker 1: this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

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00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,439
Speaker 1: and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes

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Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,

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Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

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Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.