1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Everybody, it's Bill Courtney with shop Talking number twenty seven. 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about something that really bothers me, 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: and it's called opponent or enemy. Yeah, that's what we're 4 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: going to do, and we're going to talk about it 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: a little bit historically too. Right after these brief messages 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: from our general sponsors, everybody, it's Bill Courtney Shop Talk 7 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: number twenty seven. Opponent or enemy. So when a football 8 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: game's over, regardless of how difficult the game has been, 9 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: how close it was, after the game, you will always 10 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: see members of opposing teams who just got through spending 11 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: three hours beating on each other or shake hands. Except 12 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: the time they brought you guys to the bus with 13 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: the cops. Well yeah, but that was different. So yeah, 14 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: but that was because the other team were crazy led 15 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: by crazy people. But ninety nine percent of the time 16 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: that's what you see. And the the reason is is 17 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: that you can go full contact against an opponent, but 18 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean they're your enemy. They're not your sworn enemy. 19 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: I'm reminded one time, when after President Obama was elected, 20 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: that Mitch McConnell said his number one goal, his number 21 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: one goal was to make sure Obama was a one 22 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: term president, and I get that politics is a full 23 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: contact sport, but I remember thinking to myself, your number 24 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: one goal goal, shouldn't your number one goal be to 25 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: pass laws and legislation that serves our country. I get 26 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: that as one of the leaders in the Republican Party, 27 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: you've got a big goal to make sure that there's 28 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: more Republicans in Congress and a Republican in the White 29 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: House rather than Democrats. That's just the way it works. 30 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: But your number one goal? Does that not transfer from 31 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: being a competitor to you know, like a dire enemy? 32 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: And what stage does that set? It really bothered me 33 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: when I heard that, and I think we can all 34 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: now look at the vitriol that goes on between Democrats 35 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: and Republicans and wonder what happened to our civility? And 36 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: is that not a fundamental breakdown of our civics. I'm 37 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: also reminded that Republicans people on the right of the 38 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: isle will Harold Ronald Reagan is probably one of the 39 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: best presidents that ever served, along with Lincoln and others, 40 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: of course, but that he was one of the best, 41 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: and largely I think that comes from on the hills 42 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: of a Carter administration that certainly had issues in the 43 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: Middle East, had issues with the Soviet Union at the time, 44 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: and had issues domestically with oil embargoes and nineteen percent 45 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: interest rates. We were kind of in bad shape, and 46 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: Reagan is largely given credit for, whether you agree with 47 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: trickle down economics or not, instituting trickle down economics at 48 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: the time, which did get us out of a pretty 49 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: deep economical within a month. In all of the Iran 50 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: hostage affair that went on for over a year and 51 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: a half under the Carter administration was ended, the hostages 52 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: came home, and maybe one of his biggest accomplishments, and 53 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: certainly his largest foreign affairs accomplishments, was the destruction of 54 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: Soviet Union and the wall separating East and West Germany 55 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: coming down in Germany once again becoming a united nation. 56 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: I guess there's all kinds of things Reagan did that 57 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: his detractors could argue against. But I think the things 58 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: I've outlined Reagan did accomplish, and he's heralded for that. 59 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: But what I think people oftentimes miss is that while 60 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: all this was going on, there was this guy named 61 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: Tip O'Neil who was a Democrat and he was a 62 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: Massachusetts Democrat, meaning that's a Democrat when you're a Massachusetts Democrat. 63 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: And he was running Congress. And these guys fought it 64 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: out on policy a lot, but you know what else 65 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: they did. They built a friendship after they'd hammered out 66 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: from eight to five all day long politically, they would 67 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: go to dinner with their wives. They would have rational 68 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: civil conversations. People also don't necessarily remember that Ronald Reagan, 69 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: a Republican president, actually raised taxes during his eight years, 70 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: acknowledging to Tip O'Neill that there needed to be a 71 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: little more revenue. And yes, he did cut fat, and 72 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: yes he did do a lot of things that fiscal 73 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: conservatives really wanted to have happened, but he also raised taxes. 74 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: He found common ground with Tip O'Neill, and Tip o'nill 75 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: found common ground with him. But since that relationship, it 76 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: just feels like there's been a year after year after 77 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: year degradation of the political process, and we have gone 78 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: from seeing one another from different political viewpoints, seeing one 79 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: another as opponents to enemies. I'll never forget when Hillary 80 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: Clinton called half of the country deplorables because they simply 81 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: didn't agree with her. They're deplorable. I it's not much 82 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: worse word to say about somebody else that you're deplorable. 83 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: So you know from So it's both sides. You've got 84 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: Hillary on one side, you've got Mitch on the other side, 85 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: and all of this nastiness going on. And is it 86 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: right that we look at each other as enemies? And 87 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: my argument would be that it's not opponent sure, Just 88 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: like football players do when they meet on a football 89 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: field on a Friday night or Saturday night or Sunday, 90 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: they literally beat on each other as hard as they 91 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: can to win, but when it's over, they can respect 92 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: each other and shake hands. And we got to have that. 93 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: So I want to read something to that was in 94 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: printed on September twenty fifth of twenty twenty four. It's 95 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: an Axios article and I just want to read the 96 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: top of it. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries has promised 97 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: Speaker Mike Johnson, now we got the leaders of the 98 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: Democrats versus the leaders of the Republicans in the House 99 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: Representatives that their relationship will be governed by two rules, 100 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: No lies and no smack talk. It's in old school 101 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: pledge that has helped the new leaders build trust and 102 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: a Congress in which it's in very short splot, especially 103 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: among Johnson's own leadership team. It's also the kind of 104 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: code that demands reciprocity if the tables are turned in 105 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: the new Congress, and as Jeffries attempting to lead with 106 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: a narrow majority, Jeffries has spoken glowingly about his working 107 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: relationship with Johnson at fundraisers around Washington. Multiple sources who 108 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: attended the events of sold Axios this that rapport is 109 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: better than the one Jeffries had a former Speaker Kevin McCarthy, 110 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: The sources said, helping along by partisan deals when Congress 111 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: has needed them most, that is so refreshing. So I 112 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: was actually in DC about three weeks ago, and I 113 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: can't tell you who, it just wouldn't be appropriate, but 114 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: I had a meeting with a senior official in the 115 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: Johnson staff and asked him about that article, and I said, 116 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: is that true? And he said absolutely, He said, Speaker 117 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: Johnson really appreciate sechems. Certainly they disagree on a lot 118 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: of policy, frankly, probably most policy, but they don't talk 119 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: crap about each other in the public. They don't try 120 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: to detegrade each other on a personal level. They keep 121 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: all of the arguments on a policy level, and they 122 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: do not lie to one another, and they show each 123 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: other's civility and respect. They fight it out on policy, 124 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: but they keep it on a level playing field personally 125 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: because they're both Americans. They're not enemies. They can be 126 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: opponents searching for the best solutions to serve us all, 127 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: but they're not going to destroy each other personally, because 128 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: ultimately that's not in the best service of our country. 129 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: That is heartening because I don't think we've seen much 130 00:09:54,480 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: of that in many, many years. So opponent or enemy, 131 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. Are you an opponent of a policy 132 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: or an enemy of the person speaking the policy. I 133 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: think we need to think about it. I think we 134 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: need to find our civility to reclaim our civics. I think, 135 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 1: for once in a long time, we see through Hakeem 136 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: Jeffries and Mike Johnson what true servant leadership is supposed 137 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: to look like. Certainly, I have my ideas and you 138 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: have your ideas, and we can hammer it out over 139 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: the ideas. But at the end of the day, I'm 140 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: your opponent. I'm not your enemy. I think it's a 141 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: great example of how things are supposed to work. And 142 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: for those of us who have been so frustrated with 143 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 1: what's going on in the political process and the narratives 144 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: that constantly come out of either side of the media 145 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: that pit us against one another, I think there's some 146 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: glimmer of hope when I read this Access article that 147 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: we can reclaim what has made us so strong in 148 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: the past, which is we're going to fight it out 149 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: on policy to find the best answers. But at the 150 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: end of the day, we're all Americans, and you're my opponent, 151 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: but you're not my enemy. So good for them and 152 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: good for us, because if we're actually going to be 153 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: a true army of normal folks, we're going to have 154 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: to march side by side, shoulder to shoulder with some 155 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: people who may not necessarily think, or vote or worship 156 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: just like you. But that does not make them your enemy. 157 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: You can still join arm in arm with that army 158 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: of people to change this country, and it starts with 159 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 1: people who approach that like Speaker Johnson at GEME Jeffries, 160 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: And to them, I say, good for you. You can 161 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: be an opponent without not being an enemy, and neither 162 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: of them make it deplorable. So that's shop Talk number 163 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: twenty seven. But first I want to say two things. One, 164 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: I really appreciate the letters we're getting on shop talk, 165 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: and Alex and I talk about all kinds of different 166 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: things to talk about on shop talk, but there's nothing 167 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: better than getting a note from you guys to say, hey, 168 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: you got an idea for shop talk, And if you'll 169 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 1: do that, I'll answer your email, and if I think 170 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: I've got anything to add, we'll have a shop talk 171 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: and if it's appropriate, we'll give you a shout out. 172 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: And if it's kind of one of those things need 173 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: to be under the radar, well you'll know who you 174 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: are when we talk about it. One last thing, guys, 175 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 1: we are hosting our second live interview. The first one 176 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: was with the Dancing ups Man. That went awesome, it 177 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: was fun. We're doing our second one in Memphis on 178 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: November seventh at Second Press Tea in Church. They've got 179 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: a nice haul for us to meet in and frankly 180 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: was free and they offered to host it. So that's 181 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: where we are. We can't even afford a bell, so 182 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: you can imagine what it's like to get a meeting space. 183 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: So Memphis. On November seventh, we are hosting Todd Komernicki. 184 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: Todd is the director of one of the best Christmas 185 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: movie has ever made elf. More seriously, he was the 186 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: writer of Sully, the movie about the plane that landed 187 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: in the Hudson to save everybody after it had a 188 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: bird strike. And now most recently he's a director of 189 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: some serious stuff. It's Angels Studio's upcoming film. Bon Hoffer 190 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:42,599 Speaker 1: Pastor spy assassin. Dietrich Bonhefer, who the movie's about, was 191 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: a German pastor who tried to rally the church in 192 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: Germany to stop Hitler. He was involved in Operation seven, 193 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: which was an operation to smuggle Jews into neutral Switzerland 194 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 1: to save their life, and ultimately he joined the famous 195 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: Valkyrie Valkyrie plot, which is the plot that was to 196 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: assassinate Hitler. He was caught. That plot was unsuccessful, and 197 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: Dietrich Bonheiffer was executed for his involvement in that plot 198 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: in a concentration camp alongside Jews that he fought to save. 199 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: He is one of the most epic examples of an 200 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: ordinary person who lived an extraordinary life of service all 201 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: the way to the point of depth. And so we're 202 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: going to get to explore this story and have the 203 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: guy who directed this movie Bonheffer Pastor Spy and Assassin 204 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: that's coming out soon, and you can join us. You 205 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: can join us live and you can be part of 206 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: the podcast because we're going to open up the audience 207 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: to questions so you can get inspired, meet incredible director, 208 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: and have a cool evening. November seventh, US second PRESSCA 209 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: in Church. You can r s v P for free 210 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: tickets at Bonhoffer director dot event bright dot com. That's 211 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: b O n H O E F f E R 212 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: director dot event bright dot com. So there you go. 213 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: Send me ideas, stop talk, come to the Bondheffer thing, 214 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: rate review us do all the stuff we constantly ask 215 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: you to do. Thanks to our producer, iron Light Laps. 216 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: I'm Bill Courtney. We'll see you next week.