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Speaker 1: Hi, you guys. Welcome back to Killer Thriller Docu Edition.

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Speaker 1: So today we are diving into a true crime investigation,

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Speaker 1: seriously unlike any other that I've seen, and one that

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Speaker 1: started not in a police department, but inside a high

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Speaker 1: school classroom. So when teacher Alex Campbell, my new hero,

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Speaker 1: introduced his students to the decades-old redhead murders, it was

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Speaker 1: supposed to be a lesson in sociology. Instead, his students

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Speaker 1: began digging into the case themselves, uncovering leads, examining evidence,

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Speaker 1: and ultimately developing a theory about who could be responsible

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Speaker 1: for the murders. Their investigation became the subject of the

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Speaker 1: documentary Murder 101, raising a fascinating question, can a group

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Speaker 1: of high school students uncover something that investigators have missed

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Speaker 1: for decades? Today, we are lucky enough to have Alex

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Speaker 1: Campbell himself join us to talk about how his classroom

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Speaker 1: investigation became a real-life cold case deep dive into and

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Speaker 1: what his students discovered, and whether they may have actually

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Speaker 1: identified a serial killer. Please welcome my hero, and soon

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Speaker 1: to be yours, Alex Campbell.

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Speaker 2: Hello.

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Speaker 1: Hi, Mr. Campbell.

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Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us today.

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Speaker 2: No problem. It's my pleasure. Sir, I was a couple

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Speaker 2: minutes late.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to apologize for anything. I was just

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Speaker 1: recording and telling our audience, our listeners, that you are

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Speaker 1: my hero. And I want to give you... the ultimate compliment.

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Speaker 1: So I upgraded my Hulu account to no commercials because

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Speaker 1: of you in this documentary.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's funny.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It's just, it's, it's so interesting for me because,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is what we do. We do, we

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Speaker 1: do true crime and this is, it didn't feel like

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Speaker 1: a true crime documentary per se. There's certainly that element

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Speaker 1: in it and the way that you all have made

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Speaker 1: such a difference, you know, in the lives of, uh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, the redhead murders and their families and, and

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Speaker 1: those victims, but also it just, it feels like a study.

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Speaker 2: In, um, I.

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Speaker 1: Don't know, high school kids, the beauty of that. You know,

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Speaker 1: when I was in high school, I was awkward and

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Speaker 1: insecure and I could see that in some of you know,

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Speaker 1: your students. And I think most kids have that sort

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Speaker 1: of started trying to figure themselves out and then watching

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Speaker 1: them because of you and your class blossom into these little,

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Speaker 1: besides being mini investigators, but just so much more mature

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Speaker 1: and sure of themselves. It was really beautiful. I loved it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was neat. And you know, it's something that

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Speaker 2: you kind of hope comes through. But, you know, you

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Speaker 2: never know if it will. And we hope that people

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Speaker 2: would see that aspect and enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: That's the aspect I enjoyed the most. And not because

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Speaker 1: it wasn't the redhead murders and what you all uncovered

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Speaker 1: was unbelievable. It really was. But just, you know what?

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of not teenagers anymore, but they were once. They're,

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Speaker 1: you know, 24 and 26 now. And just watching these

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Speaker 1: great kids and watching the way that you mentored them

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Speaker 1: and opened their eyes to, you know, empathy. And it

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Speaker 1: was just really, it's just, it's absolutely beautiful. I love, love,

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Speaker 1: loved it.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I appreciate all that. That was something that,

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Speaker 2: you know, we talked about with the production team and

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Speaker 2: we just hoped people would get it. You know, it's,

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Speaker 2: it's a little different than your normal true crime.

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Speaker 1: Well, only in, yes, in a lot of ways, but

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Speaker 1: in the sense that we got to know these kids and, right?

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Speaker 1: Separate from true crime. We got to know their lives. Sadly,

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Speaker 1: a lot of their lives have been affected by crime.

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Speaker 1: And that, you know, and watching their resilience is just

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Speaker 1: so inspiring. You know, and watching the way they all

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Speaker 1: were taking care of each other and becoming friends despite

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Speaker 1: the obstacles. You know, watching Crimson get adopted. I was

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Speaker 1: beside myself and I don't know, you know, watching Lacey

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Speaker 1: just sort of figure out what she needed to know

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Speaker 1: and the way she spoke of you. And when crimson

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Speaker 1: birthday cake, I mean the whole thing, it's just amazing. Amazing.

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Speaker 1: Really cool.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's what I love most about my job. And, uh,

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Speaker 2: I'm glad people got a little glimpse of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It seems like they got to see why I love

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Speaker 2: my job so much. And I'm glad, I'm glad that

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Speaker 2: it's resonating with people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it certainly is with me. Um, So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the part of it that is also fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Not my favorite part, but still really quite unbelievable. The

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Speaker 1: redhead murders. And I, I want to know before we

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Speaker 1: sort of dive in specifically. So is this, this what

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Speaker 1: you've started now and what has now become a documentary

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Speaker 1: that is going to blow up all around the world.

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Speaker 1: I would think that this is such an untapped resource, right?

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Speaker 1: Like high school kids looking for, purpose if they're interested

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Speaker 1: in this type of investigation and actually being of service

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Speaker 1: to the world of crime and investigation and all of that.

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Speaker 1: I would think that this is, to me, this is

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Speaker 1: just a brilliant idea.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's what I thought. If we talk

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Speaker 2: to investigators and they always had the same story, you know,

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Speaker 2: they have so many cases and usually there's not a

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Speaker 2: dedicated cold case anything. So they have all these current

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Speaker 2: cases and they're trying to squeeze a little bit of

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Speaker 2: work in on those if they ever get a chance.

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Speaker 2: And there's just not enough time and not enough resources

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Speaker 2: on their end. And then you have these students that

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Speaker 2: need like authentic work where they can practice what they're learning.

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Speaker 2: And I've got 30 of them in a class locked

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Speaker 2: up down here. Like, let's turn these kids loose and

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Speaker 2: look how much work they can get done. There's not

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Speaker 2: one of them. You know, there's 30 of them per class.

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Speaker 2: And if people would see them as that resource, you know,

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Speaker 2: that was the big thing is they need to learn

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Speaker 2: to understand, like, these students are a huge untapped resource.

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Speaker 2: The stuff that usually takes law enforcement so long, just

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Speaker 2: the getting documents, the going through documents, the putting cases together,

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Speaker 2: putting together timelines, those take hundreds or thousands of hours.

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Speaker 2: But I have students, we're down here 180 days a

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Speaker 2: year for an hour a day, and I've got 30

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Speaker 2: kids per day. Think about the thousands of hours we

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Speaker 2: can put into it. And it took a little while,

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Speaker 2: but it seems like we've gotten through to a few

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Speaker 2: agencies and we're actually, we've got a really powerful partnership

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Speaker 2: this year with a police agency working in case in

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Speaker 2: real time. So it's been good. And I hope other

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Speaker 2: people in other schools and, and around the country and

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Speaker 2: around the world, see what a like untapped potential is there.

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Speaker 2: If they could just learn to see the kids that way. And,

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Speaker 2: you know, you don't have to give them things. You're

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Speaker 2: not comfortable giving them, just give them the parts that you,

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Speaker 2: you could use their help on. Anything to them is

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Speaker 2: better than a textbook, you know, and anything they can

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Speaker 2: do to help you is something that you didn't have

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Speaker 2: to do and saves you time. So anyway, it's, it's

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Speaker 2: been good. Thank you for saying that. And I think

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Speaker 2: people are beginning to kind of think about it that way.

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Speaker 2: And I'm hearing it from people. So I hope to

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Speaker 2: see that happening in other places.

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Speaker 1: I think it's very easy to see. I was actually wondering,

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Speaker 1: so you mentioned you can give them as much as

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Speaker 1: you want to, but like, have you had any pushback

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Speaker 1: from parents? Not pushback. I can't imagine there would be

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Speaker 1: real pushback, but fear that like their kids would be

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Speaker 1: a little traumatized by some of the stories, you know,

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Speaker 1: by some of the details. No?

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Speaker 2: Never.

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Speaker 1: That's great.

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Speaker 2: It's a very common question. And it just seems like

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Speaker 2: they just get it. You know, it seems to me

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Speaker 2: that the people who don't have kids or maybe they're

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Speaker 2: older and haven't had kids at home in a long time,

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Speaker 2: they tend to worry about that. But as you can

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Speaker 2: see from that show, look how crime stories are affecting

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Speaker 2: so many of my students to pretend like they don't know.

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Speaker 2: about crime or incarcerated individuals or abuse or neglect or

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Speaker 2: addiction or whatever, like, is just really not in reality

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Speaker 2: with my students. And I think most people who have

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Speaker 2: kids that age actually appreciate the fact that there's a

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Speaker 2: class where they can learn about those things. And instead of, like,

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Speaker 2: they're going to learn about it in movies, right? The

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Speaker 2: kids are watching movies. They're listening to songs. They're on

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Speaker 2: social media. So they hear about it. They see it

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Speaker 2: all the time. But I think the reason it's better

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Speaker 2: to learn about it in my class is that we

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Speaker 2: learn about reality. You know, what you see on TV

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Speaker 2: is probably not going to be real. The way the

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Speaker 2: movie shows it is not going to be accurate. But

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Speaker 2: when we have family members and victims and police officers

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Speaker 2: and mental health counselors and all these people that we're

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Speaker 2: working with, the kids really get a real kind of

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Speaker 2: accurate understanding of these things. And it's not sensationalized. You know, it's,

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Speaker 2: it's handled with respect. And I think that kids really,

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Speaker 2: it really makes a lot of sense to them. And

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Speaker 2: the parents who are living with it, right, they're trying

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Speaker 2: to help their kids learn and figure these things out

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Speaker 2: and deal with this. It seems to me that they

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Speaker 2: just totally understand what's going on. They appreciate it. I've

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Speaker 2: even had parents say that it leads to so many

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Speaker 2: good conversations that they normally wouldn't get a chance to

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Speaker 2: have with their student about you know what can you

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Speaker 2: do to not be a victim this is why I

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Speaker 2: don't let you do this or that now you're starting

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Speaker 2: to understand why so it's it's really a it's it's

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Speaker 2: been great for me to try to help my students

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Speaker 2: process some of the things they're already living through And

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Speaker 2: I think most parents really appreciate the fact that there's

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Speaker 2: a class that deals with these things in reality and

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Speaker 2: kind of gives the kids like a real look.

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Speaker 1: Listen, yeah, sure. They're not babies. I mean, they are

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Speaker 1: in high school. So that when you wrapped the doc,

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Speaker 1: that was how long ago? A year ago?

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Speaker 2: So it wasn't spring of 26. It was spring of 25.

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Speaker 2: So there's been a school year and now we've started

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Speaker 2: another school year since.

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Speaker 1: All right. So where are we? What crimes have we

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Speaker 1: solved in that year? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So last, you kind of felt this at the end

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Speaker 2: of Murder 101, like Jerry Johns is most likely a

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Speaker 2: serial killer. We still need some work.

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Speaker 1: To be done. How many does it take?

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Speaker 2: Two, just two. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Just two.

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Speaker 2: I mean, thankfully, you know, Linda lived. If he had

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Speaker 2: choked her five more seconds, she probably wouldn't have lived,

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Speaker 2: and that would have been his second victim. But thankfully,

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Speaker 2: she did live. But I think the cops feel like

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Speaker 2: there's probably a couple more that they know of, and

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Speaker 2: who knows how many more, but But we also felt

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Speaker 2: like there were some other killers, right? We kind of

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Speaker 2: got that. Jerry Johns cannot be responsible for all of these.

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Speaker 2: So last year, my students actually wrote a book. They

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Speaker 2: wanted to see how many serial killers there were in

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Speaker 2: Tennessee in the 1980s. And our count was over 20,

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Speaker 2: just in Tennessee in the 1980s. But there were nine

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Speaker 2: that were highway serial killers. So they wrote a whole

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Speaker 2: book about just the highway serial killers of Tennessee in

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Speaker 2: the 1980s. And that was called Driven by Rage, Fueled

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Speaker 2: by Diesel. And we got a real publisher.

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Speaker 1: That's a good title.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, real publisher, not self-published, a real publisher that published it,

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Speaker 2: put it out there. And this was the cool part.

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Speaker 2: They had to help find victims that have not been

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Speaker 2: related to these killers yet. And when they reached out

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Speaker 2: to one law enforcement agency in Kentucky, they said that

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Speaker 2: they didn't even know that they had any activity that

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Speaker 2: related to a killer that was down here in Tennessee.

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Speaker 2: So they have now reopened a case, which they did

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Speaker 2: not even know about until my students told them. And

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Speaker 2: that's the case we're working in real time with the

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Speaker 2: police in Kentucky. There was a man who killed a

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Speaker 2: woman here and was executed for it. But his wife,

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Speaker 2: his first wife died suspiciously. The students did a lot

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Speaker 2: of work and convinced the cops that they definitely needed

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Speaker 2: to go back and look at this case again. It's

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Speaker 2: a 46 year old case. It was ruled an accident

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Speaker 2: at the time, but it is highly likely that this

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Speaker 2: guy killed his first wife and got away with it.

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Speaker 2: So we are working on that case this year. And

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Speaker 2: but like real time, I mean, I get an email.

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Speaker 1: He was he was executed because of the second murder.

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Speaker 2: This one they declared an accidental death. And you know,

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Speaker 2: when you file for divorce right before you die and

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Speaker 2: you're 20 and you die in a bathtub and there's

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Speaker 2: no water in the bathtub and there's no alcohol or

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Speaker 2: drugs in your system. And the daughter says, I mean,

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Speaker 2: what do they think she, she had thrown up and

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Speaker 2: because she had some, of the contents in her throat,

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Speaker 2: they ruled it as a choking. But why is a

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Speaker 2: 20 year old girl laying on her back in the tub,

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Speaker 2: throwing up when she just filed for divorce? The only

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Speaker 2: other person in the house is her husband and her

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Speaker 2: two tiny children. The whole thing seems suspicious, but once

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Speaker 2: they ruled it accidental death, they just, that was that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then they kept it for a while, but it's

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Speaker 2: an accident, so they got rid of the case. And

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Speaker 2: no law enforcement officer up there at the time had

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Speaker 2: ever even heard of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, then Mr. Campbell's kids came along.

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Speaker 2: That's what we have time to do, right? We have

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Speaker 2: time to go look at every single death in America

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Speaker 2: that we can get our hands on and say, are

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Speaker 2: these matching with any of these people? And that's just one.

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Speaker 2: We know that there are dozens, if not hundreds, of

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Speaker 2: more of those. That can be related to those nine

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Speaker 2: killers that my students looked at. But we just got

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Speaker 2: one law enforcement agency that was willing to listen. So

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Speaker 2: that's our work this year. And we started timelines. We

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Speaker 2: just had a wrapper. It's a very complicated case spanning

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Speaker 2: several states. So we're just getting our mind kind of

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Speaker 2: wrapped around that, teaching each other. And then we had

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Speaker 2: to do a whole section on statement analysis because all

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Speaker 2: these people are dead now. So all we have is

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Speaker 2: what was put in these reports. So we had to

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Speaker 2: learn how to analyze statements. And then the police are

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Speaker 2: trusting us to create a timeline.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So by next Thursday, we have to have a timeline

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Speaker 2: as complete as possible. The police chief will be down

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Speaker 2: here to check on our progress.

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Speaker 1: Crazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow. She does. The woman, the first wife has

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Speaker 2: one brother. That's all that's left. And he always felt

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Speaker 2: that it was suspicious. Yeah. And our goal is, is

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Speaker 2: to give him the truth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: If it's true that it was an accident, then that,

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Speaker 2: that that's that, but whatever the truth is, our goal

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Speaker 2: is by the end of the year.

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Speaker 1: I love that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I love that lesson that you all were teaching about

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Speaker 1: evidence and not trying to like, you have to sort of,

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Speaker 1: you have a piece, you don't try to make the

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Speaker 1: other pieces fit into the piece you have to adjust.

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Speaker 1: And that's, I think that's kind of a life lesson, right? Like,

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Speaker 1: Not too corny, but like, you know, you can't, you

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Speaker 1: can get stuck in something and you won't be able

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Speaker 1: to see the forest or the trees or whatever that

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Speaker 1: expression is.

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Speaker 2: We have a great investigator that always comes and works

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Speaker 2: with us at the beginning of the year. And I

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Speaker 2: have him do just a lesson on what does it

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Speaker 2: take to be a great investigator. And he always does

303
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Speaker 2: such a great job because he says the same thing

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Speaker 2: every year. He says, your job is not to solve cases.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's the jury's job, if you think about it.

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Speaker 2: the DA presents the cases, the jury listens to the

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Speaker 2: cases and they will determine whether they feel the person

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Speaker 2: is guilty or not. He said, an investigator just follows leads.

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Speaker 2: Your job is to look at a case and be

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Speaker 2: smart and think about what doesn't fit. What questions need

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Speaker 2: to be asked next? Where do I go here? Where

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Speaker 2: do I go there? And you just follow the leads.

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Speaker 2: You cannot predetermine. You just follow the leads. And that's

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Speaker 2: a great thing. We try to always do that. And it, um,

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Speaker 2: That's a good life lesson, too. You know, you just

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Speaker 2: look at whatever it is, whatever problem you have in life,

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Speaker 2: look at it and try to figure out, OK, where's

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Speaker 2: the problems? Where can I start? What can I do?

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Speaker 2: How do I get it to the next step and

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Speaker 2: just go from there?

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Speaker 1: Journey, not the destination. I could think of like a

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Speaker 1: million cliches for this. I have to ask you this

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Speaker 1: because the kids in the doc, they all seemed just

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Speaker 1: so motivated and just, they were just beautiful kids. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you got lucky that you got

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Speaker 1: those kids and then the doc started, if there were

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Speaker 1: some that didn't even, but how do you grade these children?

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Speaker 1: I mean, how do you, they're all to me watching,

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Speaker 1: they were perfect students in your class.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I get a lot of questions about that and

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Speaker 2: it can be hard, but for example, if you have

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Speaker 2: a PowerPoint presentation, that you're presenting, then there will be

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Speaker 2: some type of rubric. Your font has to be so big.

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Speaker 2: It can't be tiny little font, no more than so

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Speaker 2: many bullet points. Your pictures have to have good spacing.

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Speaker 2: Every slide should be like the same thing. Those type things.

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Speaker 2: When you're presenting, after we've done it a little while,

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Speaker 2: are you looking at the audience? Are you not reading

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Speaker 2: off the screen? Those are all things I grade them on, right?

340
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Speaker 2: It just depends on what we're doing. Like this timeline,

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Speaker 2: they have to learn how to put the date, put

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Speaker 2: the person who's doing the action first. They have to

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Speaker 2: say where they got it from. They have to use

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Speaker 2: the right words. They can't say that she left at

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Speaker 2: 8 o'clock. They have to say that the husband reported

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Speaker 2: that she left at 8 o'clock, right? Just trying to

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Speaker 2: be accurate, trying to figure out what's really being said. So, like,

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Speaker 2: they have little activities like that all the time. And

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Speaker 2: we do a few worksheets, by the way.

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Speaker 1: There are tests and everything.

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Speaker 2: We did five worksheets just last week trying to learn

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Speaker 2: how to do statement analysis.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So we are learning things. I don't have a textbook, obviously.

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Speaker 1: I don't doubt that. I don't doubt for one second

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Speaker 1: that you're learning things.

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Speaker 2: So it depends what we're doing. So it could be

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Speaker 2: a worksheet that I'm grading you. There's stuff you just

359
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Speaker 2: have to be present for. Like, were you present when

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Speaker 2: the investigator was here? Did you have three questions ready

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Speaker 2: for him? And if you had time, did you ask

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Speaker 2: those questions? Did you take some notes on what he said?

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Speaker 2: So there's always ways I can assess them.

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Speaker 1: I don't care if you don't give them a grade.

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Speaker 1: To me, I mean, what they're learning is invaluable, but

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Speaker 1: I'm just curious about it, because watching it, it didn't

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Speaker 1: feel like school. It felt like a club, which I

368
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Speaker 1: guess there are clubs in school. That makes sense, too.

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Speaker 1: But it just seems it I just I've lost the

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Speaker 1: whole part where they actually cared about the grade instead

371
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Speaker 1: of what they were learning and what they were doing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is the assessments are nontraditional.

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Speaker 2: You know, so we are learning all these things. Can

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Speaker 2: you put this in order? I mean, even the murder

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Speaker 2: board is a great, you know, you have this much

376
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Speaker 2: space on the board. You need to fill it up

377
00:20:15,580 --> 00:20:17,899
Speaker 2: with the most important things. You know, you have to

378
00:20:17,940 --> 00:20:22,500
Speaker 2: create a name, pick a picture, have 10 documents that support,

379
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 2: you know, telling her story. So that's all things. But like,

380
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,780
Speaker 2: it's really, so we're learning things, but it's the assessment, right?

381
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 2: The assessment is the presentation to the victim's brother. The

382
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Speaker 2: assessment is come up with some ideas, present them to

383
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Speaker 2: the TBI.

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Speaker 1: Well, do it and be disciplined. I mean, all of

385
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Speaker 1: this requires discipline, right? It's not just you have to

386
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Speaker 1: actually put these methods into practice. Okay, there are things

387
00:20:46,460 --> 00:20:48,140
Speaker 1: I have to know. How did you get the money

388
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Speaker 1: for the car wrap?

389
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Speaker 2: So community, we got some community support for that.

390
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Speaker 1: You got, how'd you get the money for the plane?

391
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Speaker 1: How'd you get all this money?

392
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Speaker 2: The plane is not as expensive as, actually a lot

393
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Speaker 2: of those things are not as expensive as you would think. Plus,

394
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,860
Speaker 2: we raise money. So, like, not everything makes it into

395
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 2: the documentary. Last year, we had to raise $ 2, 500 to

396
00:21:09,869 --> 00:21:14,270
Speaker 2: get those books printed. And we had bake sales. We

397
00:21:14,290 --> 00:21:18,570
Speaker 2: applied for grants. Some parents donated. We sold ads in

398
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Speaker 2: the book. We just do whatever. And then what they did,

399
00:21:22,350 --> 00:21:24,649
Speaker 2: for example, last year, was they set it up for

400
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:27,250
Speaker 2: all profits from the book go into an account that

401
00:21:27,290 --> 00:21:31,220
Speaker 2: fund future projects for sociology. So we have some good

402
00:21:31,260 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 2: community people who help us. I have $ 300 in classroom money.

403
00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 2: We apply for grants. We raise our own money, whatever

404
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:39,580
Speaker 2: we got to do.

405
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Speaker 1: Like you said, that car, that costs thousands.

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Speaker 2: That was a wrap. I think it was around $ 1, 200.

407
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Speaker 1: Okay. Now I don't really care. I'm just saying it's,

408
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Speaker 1: I'm just, I want to get to like how you

409
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Speaker 1: got all this done. Cause just watching it's pretty amazing.

410
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, we always just find a way and

411
00:21:53,550 --> 00:21:56,010
Speaker 2: that's here. That's my job, right? The job of the

412
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Speaker 2: students is to come up with all these great ideas.

413
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Speaker 2: And my job is to support them.

414
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

415
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Speaker 2: So I'm going to go find the money wherever I

416
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Speaker 2: have to.

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Speaker 1: That's cool.

418
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Speaker 2: But I got to say something. You thought our school

419
00:22:07,030 --> 00:22:09,630
Speaker 2: looked really nice. It looks good. But this is not

420
00:22:09,650 --> 00:22:11,990
Speaker 2: a wealthy school. It's not a wealthy community. It looks

421
00:22:12,030 --> 00:22:15,400
Speaker 2: good on camera. It does. We are not wealthy, but

422
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 2: we have a very giving, caring, and supportive community. And

423
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Speaker 2: it's like those shadow boxes. You know, I had those framed.

424
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Speaker 2: Those shadow boxes aren't cheap. You know, $ 30, $ 60 for

425
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Speaker 2: a nice glass. shadow box with all these things. I

426
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Speaker 2: put in for a grant over here with the bank,

427
00:22:34,180 --> 00:22:36,690
Speaker 2: a community serving community grant. They loved it. They helped

428
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Speaker 2: us with it. So that's what we do. And sometimes

429
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Speaker 2: the school helps out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't, getting to know your students and what

431
00:22:45,310 --> 00:22:47,050
Speaker 1: they've been through and you showed a lot of their

432
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Speaker 1: homes and these are not like, you know, ridiculously sprawling.

433
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Speaker 1: They live, they're living pretty simply. And so I was,

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Speaker 1: I guess I was just so impressed with, what you

435
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Speaker 1: all have been able to do. And I don't know

436
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: what kind of money is involved in making a school.

437
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:05,830
Speaker 1: And as you're saying, I guess not as much as

438
00:23:05,869 --> 00:23:07,379
Speaker 1: I would have thought, but you just have, that's the

439
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,070
Speaker 1: kind of community that it is, which I think is

440
00:23:09,390 --> 00:23:09,790
Speaker 1: so great.

441
00:23:10,350 --> 00:23:12,290
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, last year we published the book. It

442
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:16,250
Speaker 2: costs 2,500 bucks. We just raised that money ourselves. I mean,

443
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:19,410
Speaker 2: I had kids in the class who had culinary that

444
00:23:19,650 --> 00:23:22,370
Speaker 2: baked a bunch of cookies in culinary class and then

445
00:23:22,430 --> 00:23:24,310
Speaker 2: sold them at lunch and made $ 500. They sold for

446
00:23:24,369 --> 00:23:28,100
Speaker 2: three days and, But that's they care. You know, they

447
00:23:28,180 --> 00:23:31,619
Speaker 2: wanted to see that. And really, that's my job. I

448
00:23:31,859 --> 00:23:33,820
Speaker 2: think that is my job is to support the students.

449
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 2: If I'm not setting up lecturing every day, like what

450
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,869
Speaker 2: am I doing? Well, my job is to create a

451
00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:43,550
Speaker 2: learning experience for the students to just plug into. And

452
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:45,250
Speaker 2: if that means we've got to get a book published

453
00:23:45,290 --> 00:23:48,230
Speaker 2: or a car wrapped, like that's what we have to do. So,

454
00:23:48,430 --> 00:23:52,270
Speaker 2: you know, we figure out a way. We're resilient in Appalachia.

455
00:23:52,740 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, I could tell. So, all right. So you had

456
00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:59,429
Speaker 1: a lot of kids, obviously, that were that we focused on,

457
00:23:59,470 --> 00:24:01,469
Speaker 1: that you focused on. Were there kids that did not

458
00:24:01,510 --> 00:24:03,909
Speaker 1: want to be part of this? Was it hard to

459
00:24:03,950 --> 00:24:04,910
Speaker 1: get the kids involved?

460
00:24:05,770 --> 00:24:07,590
Speaker 2: Yes, we had 13 students in the class and you

461
00:24:07,609 --> 00:24:10,530
Speaker 2: probably saw them in various ways. They all agreed to

462
00:24:10,570 --> 00:24:12,880
Speaker 2: be part of it. But we were that was just

463
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 2: us production. You know, we talked about you can be

464
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:17,460
Speaker 2: in the class, but we don't have to be in

465
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:20,870
Speaker 2: your house, you know. some kids were like, Hey, that's fine.

466
00:24:20,910 --> 00:24:24,150
Speaker 2: Come into class, video me, see my work. But they just,

467
00:24:24,190 --> 00:24:26,270
Speaker 2: you know, they didn't want to have a camera.

468
00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:29,250
Speaker 1: But nobody said, no, I'm not. Cause I would think

469
00:24:29,290 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: there's going to be a certain level of, we'll call

470
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: it fame or, you know, these kids, I'm walking down

471
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,419
Speaker 1: the street, you know, I'm, I'm recognizing Lacey. Crimson is

472
00:24:39,460 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: not getting past me without me asking her for her autograph.

473
00:24:42,180 --> 00:24:45,190
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, all 13. That was a very small class.

474
00:24:45,250 --> 00:24:48,010
Speaker 2: It was really strange. I had, 28 year before I

475
00:24:48,050 --> 00:24:50,330
Speaker 2: had 13 that year. I had 32 last year. I've

476
00:24:50,350 --> 00:24:53,389
Speaker 2: got 32 this year. It was just a really small class,

477
00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:56,429
Speaker 2: which was strange for some reason. And all of them

478
00:24:56,450 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 2: were okay with it, but you can see that some

479
00:24:59,410 --> 00:25:02,020
Speaker 2: of them, um, you know, we're a little bit more

480
00:25:02,140 --> 00:25:04,500
Speaker 2: open to being filmed and stuff. And of course some

481
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: of them were more open, but that stuff gets cut

482
00:25:06,420 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 2: out too. You can only follow so many stories in

483
00:25:09,420 --> 00:25:12,460
Speaker 2: three hours, but everything was open to it. Yeah.

484
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: I want to know where they are now. Like now

485
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,500
Speaker 1: that it's, So some of them are still in school.

486
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if some of them are taking your

487
00:25:19,540 --> 00:25:24,860
Speaker 1: class again. But how have they reacted to the documentary

488
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: and seeing themselves up there? And like, I wish I

489
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,139
Speaker 1: would have loved to have just seen them see it.

490
00:25:31,540 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 2: It's been unusual. The sophomores I had are still here.

491
00:25:34,460 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 2: There's about four or five of those. Everybody else, you know,

492
00:25:37,270 --> 00:25:40,909
Speaker 2: juniors and seniors have graduated. But I don't really get

493
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:44,510
Speaker 2: to see them that much. After they graduate, I see

494
00:25:44,550 --> 00:25:47,500
Speaker 2: very little of them. There's maybe a couple that I

495
00:25:47,540 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 2: kind of stay in contact with a little bit here

496
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,109
Speaker 2: and there. But we did all get together as a community.

497
00:25:53,810 --> 00:25:56,790
Speaker 2: And we had like a public watch party on the

498
00:25:56,830 --> 00:26:00,990
Speaker 2: day that it came out. Amazon gave us a copy.

499
00:26:01,150 --> 00:26:02,909
Speaker 2: And so we used it. We played it in our

500
00:26:02,950 --> 00:26:07,140
Speaker 2: local theater. And we had like a red carpet event, food,

501
00:26:07,780 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: you know, tickets, like the whole thing. It was amazing.

502
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,580
Speaker 2: I got to see all my students again together. Who knows?

503
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 2: That might be the last time we're all together. But

504
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 2: we all got to watch episode one together with the community,

505
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,530
Speaker 2: with their parents, school teachers, you know, different people. And

506
00:26:24,570 --> 00:26:26,419
Speaker 2: it was really powerful. I think they're really proud of

507
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,490
Speaker 2: what they did. But I'll just tell you that kids

508
00:26:30,530 --> 00:26:34,670
Speaker 2: are different than us. They are literally videoing themselves, taking

509
00:26:34,730 --> 00:26:37,389
Speaker 2: pictures of themselves almost continuously.

510
00:26:37,410 --> 00:26:38,169
Speaker 1: Tell me about it.

511
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:41,250
Speaker 2: And they adapt to having a camera in their face

512
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:42,250
Speaker 2: very quickly.

513
00:26:42,270 --> 00:26:42,810
Speaker 1: Yeah.

514
00:26:43,109 --> 00:26:46,790
Speaker 2: Within a week, they were just like, you know, the

515
00:26:46,810 --> 00:26:49,869
Speaker 2: camera's right here and they're working and it doesn't even

516
00:26:49,910 --> 00:26:53,540
Speaker 2: phase them. So they adapted really quickly. I think they're

517
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 2: proud of what they did. Some of them didn't even

518
00:26:55,660 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 2: watch the next two episodes for weeks because they're kids.

519
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 2: They have busy lives. It blows me away, but it's true.

520
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,419
Speaker 2: One girl said, I hadn't even had a chance to

521
00:27:04,460 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: watch the third episode yet. And it had been several weeks.

522
00:27:08,340 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 2: That's crazy. But they're proud. I really do. That's something

523
00:27:12,140 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 2: that you never know. Like when they're making a documentary,

524
00:27:14,060 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: they just film for like 10 months. And you don't

525
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,980
Speaker 2: know what makes it in and what doesn't. What's the

526
00:27:20,020 --> 00:27:23,060
Speaker 2: storyline going to be? If you think about true crime,

527
00:27:23,140 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 2: normally they already have somebody in jail or somebody's already

528
00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: been convicted. And then you just go back and tell

529
00:27:30,100 --> 00:27:31,659
Speaker 2: the story. So you know what the story is and

530
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,090
Speaker 2: you know where it ends. But we actually filmed this

531
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,510
Speaker 2: in real time. You know, and would we have somebody

532
00:27:37,570 --> 00:27:39,050
Speaker 2: in jail? We didn't know.

533
00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:42,409
Speaker 1: Yeah, but but you know what, Mr. Campbell, this is

534
00:27:42,490 --> 00:27:46,210
Speaker 1: not this is it's not just and I know because

535
00:27:46,260 --> 00:27:48,430
Speaker 1: I do a lot of this. This is not just

536
00:27:48,490 --> 00:27:51,460
Speaker 1: a true crime story. This is a story about these

537
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,460
Speaker 1: amazing kids and this amazing teacher. And even if not,

538
00:27:54,540 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: you're not a fan of true crime. You know, I

539
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,940
Speaker 1: think this is in my mind, this is more than that.

540
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,900
Speaker 1: I don't even know how it's being represented. It's just

541
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,500
Speaker 1: a true crime story. You know, that's how it feels

542
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:05,900
Speaker 1: to me.

543
00:28:06,460 --> 00:28:09,290
Speaker 2: When we talked about it as a production team, you know,

544
00:28:09,310 --> 00:28:14,770
Speaker 2: I told them that I wanted the teaching profession, school,

545
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:17,950
Speaker 2: our young people, all that to be represented, not just

546
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:20,570
Speaker 2: the true crime. And we had to be very victim forward.

547
00:28:20,690 --> 00:28:23,129
Speaker 2: And they were totally on board. They got it. But

548
00:28:23,150 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 2: when they got here and they met the students and

549
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,820
Speaker 2: lived here and got in the community, I think really

550
00:28:28,859 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: the story that came out to them was that this

551
00:28:32,340 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 2: is a coming of age story.

552
00:28:34,140 --> 00:28:34,300
Speaker 1: Yeah.

553
00:28:35,220 --> 00:28:38,510
Speaker 2: It's just that students are learning about their world and

554
00:28:38,550 --> 00:28:42,990
Speaker 2: the adult world through true crime in the classroom. So

555
00:28:43,030 --> 00:28:45,530
Speaker 2: it really is following the students as they learn to

556
00:28:45,550 --> 00:28:48,570
Speaker 2: kind of take their place in the adult world. And

557
00:28:48,590 --> 00:28:50,610
Speaker 2: they learn that through true crime.

558
00:28:50,810 --> 00:28:53,510
Speaker 1: It's also about relationships. It's also about you. It's also

559
00:28:53,550 --> 00:28:57,380
Speaker 1: about teachers that actually give a shit. And, you know,

560
00:28:57,460 --> 00:28:59,580
Speaker 1: it's that and what a difference that can make. What

561
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,730
Speaker 1: was what was the young kid? Man who said at graduation,

562
00:29:02,790 --> 00:29:05,330
Speaker 1: he's like, Mr. Campbell's the reason I am who I am.

563
00:29:05,870 --> 00:29:08,450
Speaker 2: As Andrew Barnett.

564
00:29:08,850 --> 00:29:10,970
Speaker 1: He almost died. That was just so sweet.

565
00:29:11,150 --> 00:29:16,190
Speaker 2: That's very powerful. That's why you're a teacher. Most people

566
00:29:16,210 --> 00:29:17,330
Speaker 2: think I'm here just for the money.

567
00:29:17,870 --> 00:29:18,530
Speaker 1: Yeah.

568
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:22,630
Speaker 2: But, you know, having those relationships with students is amazing.

569
00:29:22,890 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: And I see it every year. Yeah, I see it

570
00:29:25,660 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 2: and I love it. And people say, gosh, I don't

571
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,980
Speaker 2: know how you do it. You lock yourself in a

572
00:29:29,020 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: room with 900 teenagers. But I love my job. I

573
00:29:32,130 --> 00:29:33,959
Speaker 2: really do. Yeah, there's bad parts to it, but I

574
00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:36,100
Speaker 2: love it. And the part I love is the kids.

575
00:29:37,140 --> 00:29:39,710
Speaker 2: And people never get to see it, but in this documentary,

576
00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:41,260
Speaker 2: I hope that people did get to see that.

577
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: I think there's a very fine line. And I don't,

578
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:45,620
Speaker 1: I'm not a teacher. You tell me if I'm wrong

579
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,340
Speaker 1: between though, being a teacher and being a friend, being

580
00:29:49,380 --> 00:29:52,930
Speaker 1: a mentor, all those lines, you know, probably get crossed.

581
00:29:53,030 --> 00:29:56,550
Speaker 1: I thought you did such a beautiful job of teaching

582
00:29:56,570 --> 00:30:00,450
Speaker 1: these kids, but still being an authority figure and, making

583
00:30:00,490 --> 00:30:03,770
Speaker 1: them laugh, being goofy, you know, making fun of them.

584
00:30:03,790 --> 00:30:06,630
Speaker 1: They're making fun of you, but still knowing that you're

585
00:30:06,650 --> 00:30:10,830
Speaker 1: in charge. And I think that's probably, maybe that's come

586
00:30:10,910 --> 00:30:13,850
Speaker 1: from experience. I don't know. Maybe some people never learned that,

587
00:30:14,150 --> 00:30:16,260
Speaker 1: but I thought that you were, you were really good

588
00:30:16,300 --> 00:30:16,670
Speaker 1: at that.

589
00:30:17,130 --> 00:30:19,340
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate it. They edited out when I yelled

590
00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 2: at the kids. I start off very strict. Every student

591
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,500
Speaker 2: will tell you because I, We have to have a

592
00:30:29,580 --> 00:30:32,580
Speaker 2: structure within which to work because you can tell that

593
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,220
Speaker 2: a project like that could get out of control very quickly.

594
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: So I start with a lot of structure and everybody

595
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: knows I am in charge. But once they begin to

596
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,180
Speaker 2: show that they can do the work, that they can

597
00:30:45,220 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: be mature, I begin to lighten the reins that I have.

598
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,660
Speaker 2: But they have to show me that first. And so

599
00:30:52,780 --> 00:30:55,130
Speaker 2: they learn that trust is a two-way street. And I

600
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:56,950
Speaker 2: always tell them, I'll let you do a lot of

601
00:30:56,990 --> 00:30:59,670
Speaker 2: crazy junk. You just have to show me that you

602
00:30:59,690 --> 00:31:01,390
Speaker 2: can handle it and you can still learn and do

603
00:31:01,430 --> 00:31:04,930
Speaker 2: what's expected of you. So it's hard to believe we've

604
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:08,650
Speaker 2: been here five weeks already. But my class, my sociology

605
00:31:08,670 --> 00:31:10,430
Speaker 2: class is still learning that. I had to yell at

606
00:31:10,450 --> 00:31:13,620
Speaker 2: them real bad today. They just weren't working up to

607
00:31:13,650 --> 00:31:17,020
Speaker 2: the standard. But they will. You know, it was better

608
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,260
Speaker 2: at the end than it was at the beginning. We'll learn.

609
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: They'll grow.

610
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:21,820
Speaker 1: Are you still doing this? Do you still tape? Are

611
00:31:21,860 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: you still I mean, is it is there going to

612
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: be maybe in 102?

613
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,850
Speaker 2: We haven't heard anything back from Amazon. But I will

614
00:31:29,870 --> 00:31:32,450
Speaker 2: tell you, this thing that we're doing with the police

615
00:31:32,490 --> 00:31:37,770
Speaker 2: in Kentucky is so awesome. It's three steps above what

616
00:31:37,810 --> 00:31:41,130
Speaker 2: we did with the TBI. We weren't working an investigation

617
00:31:41,250 --> 00:31:43,510
Speaker 2: with them. You know, they came and asked us for

618
00:31:43,550 --> 00:31:46,260
Speaker 2: some help, and we helped them with something. But they

619
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: weren't sharing information and us going back and forth. This

620
00:31:49,780 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 2: is like on a whole other level. And I just

621
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,860
Speaker 2: felt it was so special that Andrew has actually gone

622
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,190
Speaker 2: into business as a filmographer. Really?

623
00:31:58,650 --> 00:32:01,650
Speaker 1: Yes. He's the kid with the camera. Yes.

624
00:32:02,540 --> 00:32:06,300
Speaker 2: And so he has come back and recorded a day.

625
00:32:07,060 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: He's going to record like some big days this semester

626
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,940
Speaker 2: because he asked me what was in the class. And

627
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,620
Speaker 2: I told him and he said, I don't know. I

628
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 2: just feel this is going to be awesome. By the end,

629
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,140
Speaker 2: it's going to be awesome. I mean, if this happens,

630
00:32:22,340 --> 00:32:25,090
Speaker 2: my students will have found another serial killer that no

631
00:32:25,140 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 2: one else knew existed. And for him to have a

632
00:32:28,140 --> 00:32:30,100
Speaker 2: chance to be on the ground floor and kind of

633
00:32:30,140 --> 00:32:33,110
Speaker 2: follow a little bit of that. So we're doing we're

634
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,300
Speaker 2: doing a little documentation. He said, if nobody wants it,

635
00:32:35,450 --> 00:32:37,970
Speaker 2: I'll put it out on Facebook. You know, I'll do

636
00:32:38,090 --> 00:32:40,770
Speaker 2: something with it. But I just wanted to have have

637
00:32:40,810 --> 00:32:43,610
Speaker 2: it documented because here's the thing. Like, you never know

638
00:32:43,650 --> 00:32:47,510
Speaker 2: what's going to happen with the project. So I just

639
00:32:47,550 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 2: know it's cool. I know there's a real problem there.

640
00:32:50,650 --> 00:32:52,300
Speaker 2: I know the kids kind of found this. I know

641
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: the cops trust them and we're working together. And I

642
00:32:55,700 --> 00:32:57,850
Speaker 2: just know there's a brother up there that needs to

643
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,390
Speaker 2: know something before he dies. And I'm just trusting that

644
00:33:01,430 --> 00:33:04,250
Speaker 2: something big is going to happen. So we're filming it

645
00:33:04,270 --> 00:33:05,610
Speaker 2: just in case something big does.

646
00:33:20,060 --> 00:33:22,660
Speaker 1: I was wondering at one point whether the cops ever

647
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,420
Speaker 1: gave you, ever sort of pushed back, like, Listen, we'll

648
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: play this game with you, but we're talking about kids.

649
00:33:27,460 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: They can't really help it. Was there a learning curve there?

650
00:33:32,260 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: That was an eight-year learning curve. What you saw in

651
00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: Murder 101 was them not wanting to engage with the

652
00:33:38,220 --> 00:33:42,750
Speaker 2: students for eight years. And then finally, the production team

653
00:33:42,850 --> 00:33:46,470
Speaker 2: helped me actually get a hold of the detective. The TBI,

654
00:33:46,510 --> 00:33:49,170
Speaker 2: you cannot call any detectives. You can't email any detectives.

655
00:33:49,510 --> 00:33:52,410
Speaker 2: You only get one number for the main office. You

656
00:33:52,450 --> 00:33:55,670
Speaker 2: don't talk to anybody. So he really didn't know what

657
00:33:55,710 --> 00:33:57,910
Speaker 2: we were doing. He had never heard. I mean, he

658
00:33:57,950 --> 00:34:00,590
Speaker 2: saw like a news article, but he didn't really understand.

659
00:34:01,650 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 2: But when I was finally able to speak with him,

660
00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: I said, all I want you to do is come

661
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,339
Speaker 2: in and listen to my students present. That's all I want.

662
00:34:09,060 --> 00:34:11,380
Speaker 2: He listened to him present the first day and said, oh,

663
00:34:12,340 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 2: my gosh, like you guys have done such good work

664
00:34:15,180 --> 00:34:18,090
Speaker 2: and you're so invested. He said, I want to come

665
00:34:18,140 --> 00:34:21,270
Speaker 2: tell you about a little bit more about a case.

666
00:34:21,930 --> 00:34:24,180
Speaker 2: And I think you can help me. And that's all

667
00:34:24,219 --> 00:34:26,380
Speaker 2: I wanted for eight years was for them to see

668
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: the work of the kids. And they would understand we're

669
00:34:28,700 --> 00:34:31,230
Speaker 2: not here to get headlines. We're not trying to sensationalize.

670
00:34:31,570 --> 00:34:34,569
Speaker 2: We're not asking the TBI to give us like secret information.

671
00:34:35,150 --> 00:34:36,509
Speaker 2: I just want you to see the kids can do

672
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:39,410
Speaker 2: amazing work, find out where you could use some help

673
00:34:39,870 --> 00:34:42,529
Speaker 2: and like, let's give them something meaningful to do. And

674
00:34:42,570 --> 00:34:44,970
Speaker 2: if they give you nothing, then who cares? The case

675
00:34:45,010 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: is no worse off. And they hopefully learned a few

676
00:34:47,660 --> 00:34:50,870
Speaker 2: skills that they give you something helpful and Look how

677
00:34:50,910 --> 00:34:51,870
Speaker 2: much it can actually.

678
00:34:51,670 --> 00:34:54,250
Speaker 1: Help the case. That is free labor right there.

679
00:34:54,870 --> 00:34:55,770
Speaker 2: That's what I'm trying to tell them.

680
00:34:56,219 --> 00:34:56,430
Speaker 1: Yeah.

681
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 2: You know, they had gotten very little information out about

682
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 2: the Tracy Walker case. And 24 million people saw it

683
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:04,259
Speaker 2: or read it.

684
00:35:04,260 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe that.

685
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: In three weeks. Like, why didn't you use these kids

686
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:08,779
Speaker 2: eight years ago?

687
00:35:08,910 --> 00:35:10,169
Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't get over that.

688
00:35:10,410 --> 00:35:13,650
Speaker 2: They needed to learn that. And I've had other classes

689
00:35:13,670 --> 00:35:15,589
Speaker 2: that could do equal work, you know.

690
00:35:15,730 --> 00:35:16,049
Speaker 1: I bet.

691
00:35:16,890 --> 00:35:19,980
Speaker 2: But they just weren't given the chance because– The police

692
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,820
Speaker 2: really didn't understand because I'll just say that different police

693
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,470
Speaker 2: agencies have different philosophies of how to work cases. And

694
00:35:29,590 --> 00:35:32,570
Speaker 2: some are more community-oriented than others. And some are easier

695
00:35:32,590 --> 00:35:34,390
Speaker 2: to get a hold of than others. But once we

696
00:35:34,410 --> 00:35:35,630
Speaker 2: were able to get a hold of the right people,

697
00:35:35,710 --> 00:35:38,910
Speaker 2: I think they really understood. And that was really great,

698
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:41,750
Speaker 2: what we did. We know that the cops are getting

699
00:35:41,770 --> 00:35:44,010
Speaker 2: a lot of tips for the Tracy Walker case. Mm-hmm.

700
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,469
Speaker 2: And I'm still holding out hope that her brother can

701
00:35:46,530 --> 00:35:49,049
Speaker 2: find out exactly who's responsible for her death.

702
00:35:49,110 --> 00:35:49,310
Speaker 1: I am too.

703
00:35:49,510 --> 00:35:52,350
Speaker 2: I am too. I believe, no, they don't tell me,

704
00:35:52,969 --> 00:35:55,270
Speaker 2: but they're getting a lot of hints and tips. I

705
00:35:55,310 --> 00:35:57,930
Speaker 2: know that, I know that is occurring. They got a

706
00:35:57,969 --> 00:36:00,660
Speaker 2: bunch back in May of two years ago. And I

707
00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: know they've gotten a bunch since murder 101 came out.

708
00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:06,540
Speaker 2: We just hope they're getting the right ones that can

709
00:36:06,620 --> 00:36:08,940
Speaker 2: let them put it together as like a solid case.

710
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,630
Speaker 2: So they could present that as like a case closed and,

711
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: I'm hoping that happens. I'm hoping it happens.

712
00:36:15,140 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: So am I. I thought it was the most amazing

713
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:22,980
Speaker 1: thing to see her brother talking to your kids, their reaction.

714
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know that kids in high school

715
00:36:25,820 --> 00:36:28,060
Speaker 1: get that chance that often to really be, not just

716
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:31,700
Speaker 1: like they're already in it, they're emotionally invested from what

717
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:38,140
Speaker 1: I've seen. And then to have this poor victim's brother

718
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,390
Speaker 1: whose life has been, you know, not easy losing a

719
00:36:42,430 --> 00:36:45,430
Speaker 1: sister like that, but yeah. Talk about like, just, I

720
00:36:45,450 --> 00:36:47,870
Speaker 1: don't know, real life lessons and empathy and all of it.

721
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:51,489
Speaker 1: I have questions for you. A couple of silly ones,

722
00:36:51,530 --> 00:36:53,980
Speaker 1: but I have to know. So too bad. How's the

723
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:54,580
Speaker 1: log cabin?

724
00:36:56,060 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 2: It's good. We finally got our gutters on a couple

725
00:37:00,100 --> 00:37:03,219
Speaker 2: of months ago. When you build it yourself, you build

726
00:37:03,260 --> 00:37:05,330
Speaker 2: it slow. You do what you can do.

727
00:37:05,550 --> 00:37:07,970
Speaker 1: See, that was so, I don't know who your cinematographer

728
00:37:08,010 --> 00:37:10,350
Speaker 1: was or who says, We're going to make him carry

729
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:14,430
Speaker 1: these big rocks that I don't even know. They don't

730
00:37:14,489 --> 00:37:17,730
Speaker 1: seem like I would not want to lift those up

731
00:37:17,770 --> 00:37:19,549
Speaker 1: and put them in a pile. And they showed you

732
00:37:19,570 --> 00:37:22,030
Speaker 1: doing that, and I thought that was kind of fabulous.

733
00:37:22,570 --> 00:37:25,100
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I've got two teenage boys, and we

734
00:37:25,180 --> 00:37:27,219
Speaker 2: lifted all those logs by ourselves. Some of them weighed

735
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,900
Speaker 2: over 1,000 pounds. And we literally cut down all the

736
00:37:30,940 --> 00:37:35,549
Speaker 2: trees ourselves, moved everything ourselves. We got very little extra

737
00:37:35,590 --> 00:37:37,330
Speaker 2: help from anybody. We didn't really have a lot of money.

738
00:37:37,780 --> 00:37:40,450
Speaker 1: I don't think that also maybe you didn't want any help.

739
00:37:40,530 --> 00:37:41,610
Speaker 1: Like I'm just guessing.

740
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:44,430
Speaker 2: I love history and I love to learn and I've

741
00:37:44,450 --> 00:37:46,469
Speaker 2: tried to always continue to learn. It's, it's probably the

742
00:37:46,510 --> 00:37:49,689
Speaker 2: greatest learning experience in my life was building a home,

743
00:37:49,850 --> 00:37:52,450
Speaker 2: you know, took years and years of planning and work.

744
00:37:52,989 --> 00:37:55,450
Speaker 2: So there is an enjoyment. I love to figure out problems.

745
00:37:55,989 --> 00:37:58,650
Speaker 2: I'm a very physical kind of person. I did it

746
00:37:58,690 --> 00:38:01,930
Speaker 2: with my family. It was, it was cool. So the

747
00:38:01,950 --> 00:38:04,710
Speaker 2: cabin's great. Log cabin living is wonderful.

748
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,660
Speaker 1: Were those your two kids at the end of the documentary?

749
00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:07,980
Speaker 2: Yes.

750
00:38:08,420 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: Two young men, I think.

751
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 2: They're now 18 and 20. Two boys. Yes. Yes. And

752
00:38:15,180 --> 00:38:19,930
Speaker 2: so one of them graduated college in May, and he

753
00:38:19,969 --> 00:38:22,430
Speaker 2: went back for one semester to get another degree. And

754
00:38:22,450 --> 00:38:27,730
Speaker 2: then my 18-year-old graduates in December. Congratulations. I'll have them

755
00:38:27,770 --> 00:38:31,110
Speaker 2: all the way through. We homeschooled them, actually, because I

756
00:38:31,150 --> 00:38:32,890
Speaker 2: wanted to do crazy junk with them all the time.

757
00:38:33,810 --> 00:38:38,310
Speaker 2: And we built a house. So they're getting through school

758
00:38:38,330 --> 00:38:40,970
Speaker 2: pretty early. And but all that's been fun.

759
00:38:41,489 --> 00:38:43,109
Speaker 1: How does your sweet wife feel about all this?

760
00:38:47,070 --> 00:38:50,730
Speaker 2: At first, she didn't love the they follow her around

761
00:38:50,770 --> 00:38:54,009
Speaker 2: for days and she did everything she does. I mean,

762
00:38:54,030 --> 00:38:57,230
Speaker 2: she made the best homemade banana pudding and, you know,

763
00:38:57,290 --> 00:39:00,790
Speaker 2: sweet tea, which, you know, next for the gods. Of course,

764
00:39:00,810 --> 00:39:03,710
Speaker 2: she did all this stuff that she does. And she

765
00:39:03,730 --> 00:39:07,710
Speaker 2: ended up like on the ride lawnmower and she didn't

766
00:39:07,730 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: really like it, but I'm telling you, people have reacted

767
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: so well to that.

768
00:39:12,060 --> 00:39:13,300
Speaker 1: I thought it was so great.

769
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: People love it. And people come up and say, I

770
00:39:16,020 --> 00:39:17,620
Speaker 2: love that. I love the scene.

771
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,030
Speaker 1: Yeah. She's cool. I love it.

772
00:39:20,060 --> 00:39:23,250
Speaker 2: And to put up with me and my crazy things,

773
00:39:23,469 --> 00:39:24,089
Speaker 2: she has to be.

774
00:39:24,090 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: Very, together since high school.

775
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,100
Speaker 2: Actually. Yes. We were prom king and queen. We were Mr.

776
00:39:30,140 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 2: And Mrs. Of our high school. And so, yeah, she's

777
00:39:34,060 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: put up with me a very, very long time.

778
00:39:36,620 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

779
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:38,700
Speaker 2: She's the unsung hero.

780
00:39:39,390 --> 00:39:40,689
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, I love that.

781
00:39:40,969 --> 00:39:41,569
Speaker 2: Yeah.

782
00:39:41,770 --> 00:39:44,410
Speaker 1: Well, you are the song hero. We really appreciate you

783
00:39:44,430 --> 00:39:47,469
Speaker 1: a lot. And I love the documentary and I'm so

784
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:50,299
Speaker 1: happy for you for the school, for these kids. It's

785
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:50,980
Speaker 1: pretty incredible.

786
00:39:52,060 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 2: It is. And the other thing we talked about was

787
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,060
Speaker 2: almost everybody that worked on the project, their family was

788
00:39:59,160 --> 00:39:59,860
Speaker 2: in education.

789
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:00,940
Speaker 1: Really?

790
00:40:01,380 --> 00:40:06,430
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Stacey Lee, she was a director. Her mom

791
00:40:06,450 --> 00:40:12,470
Speaker 2: is a teacher. The videographer, his dad, he just retired

792
00:40:12,489 --> 00:40:15,170
Speaker 2: as a principal. His mom is retiring soon as a teacher.

793
00:40:17,489 --> 00:40:20,030
Speaker 2: Even the producers, like John Watts, his sister is a teacher.

794
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 2: So they all wanted to show school for what it

795
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 2: really is. They didn't want the campy, like kids hate school,

796
00:40:28,300 --> 00:40:30,930
Speaker 2: kids cut school, they get in trouble all the time.

797
00:40:31,489 --> 00:40:33,210
Speaker 2: They wanted to show up for what it really was.

798
00:40:34,170 --> 00:40:36,270
Speaker 2: And I thought they did a great job of that.

799
00:40:36,969 --> 00:40:40,270
Speaker 2: And what we always thought was, yes, we want tips.

800
00:40:40,330 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 2: We want to help the Walker family and many others.

801
00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:46,379
Speaker 2: But we hope it does something for education. We hope.

802
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: that teachers, parents, students, lawmakers, whoever, says our students can

803
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: do better than just like some worksheets and some bold words.

804
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,609
Speaker 2: We need to let them be part of the adult world,

805
00:41:00,170 --> 00:41:05,450
Speaker 2: experience real trouble, real problems, real struggle to try to

806
00:41:05,489 --> 00:41:08,830
Speaker 2: solve these things, make sense of and practice what they're

807
00:41:08,850 --> 00:41:12,190
Speaker 2: learning in school. And so I'm hoping, I have heard

808
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:15,030
Speaker 2: from a lot of people, but I'm hoping like something

809
00:41:15,110 --> 00:41:19,339
Speaker 2: very real comes out of this where I don't want

810
00:41:19,390 --> 00:41:22,550
Speaker 2: my class to be special. I want every single kid

811
00:41:22,610 --> 00:41:26,589
Speaker 2: in every single class to get some type of experience

812
00:41:27,130 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 2: with applying what they're learning and helping others through that.

813
00:41:30,700 --> 00:41:34,060
Speaker 2: That should happen in every classroom. That should be non-negotiable

814
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 2: in my personal opinion. And I hope it's helping move

815
00:41:37,300 --> 00:41:38,370
Speaker 2: the needle in that direction.

816
00:41:39,340 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: Well, my daughter is getting her master's right now in

817
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,819
Speaker 1: early childhood education. Not the same thing exactly, but who knows?

818
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,259
Speaker 1: I'm going to have her watch and maybe she'll change

819
00:41:48,300 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: her mind and decide she wants to teach high schoolers

820
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,020
Speaker 1: and actually show us that high schoolers are people too. Yeah.

821
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,090
Speaker 2: I even have a manuscript that I'm hopefully going to

822
00:41:58,110 --> 00:42:00,730
Speaker 2: be published soon about using true crime in the classroom

823
00:42:00,750 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 2: because I've had so many questions about how to do it.

824
00:42:04,210 --> 00:42:06,029
Speaker 2: But like there's even, you just got to think about

825
00:42:06,050 --> 00:42:07,610
Speaker 2: how you do it. There's stuff for middle school kids,

826
00:42:07,690 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 2: elementary school kids, high school and college, you just got

827
00:42:10,380 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 2: to think about the way you're doing it and the

828
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,660
Speaker 2: way they get kids involved. I mean, elementary school kids

829
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 2: can do a, how to be safe online. You know, that,

830
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 2: that's like a true crime project. If all they do

831
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,210
Speaker 2: is come up with 10 rules about how to be

832
00:42:22,250 --> 00:42:26,049
Speaker 2: safe with strangers, they're actually thinking about those same things.

833
00:42:26,070 --> 00:42:28,950
Speaker 2: They're trying to solve a problem. They're trying to help people.

834
00:42:29,350 --> 00:42:30,969
Speaker 2: In this case, it might be them and their little

835
00:42:31,010 --> 00:42:34,009
Speaker 2: fellow students. But I mean, I think anybody, and it

836
00:42:34,030 --> 00:42:36,339
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be crime. Like a lot of my

837
00:42:36,380 --> 00:42:40,890
Speaker 2: classes don't do crime. Um, But everybody should be allowed

838
00:42:40,910 --> 00:42:44,210
Speaker 2: to do a project that has meaning and find, you know,

839
00:42:44,410 --> 00:42:47,029
Speaker 2: what they're good at and how they can contribute. And

840
00:42:47,070 --> 00:42:49,009
Speaker 2: I hope it leads that way. And I always leave

841
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:53,049
Speaker 2: every interview with this. When we started this, which will

842
00:42:53,070 --> 00:42:56,930
Speaker 2: be now in the spring, nine years ago, so almost

843
00:42:57,010 --> 00:42:59,570
Speaker 2: a decade, I asked the students what they wanted to

844
00:42:59,610 --> 00:43:01,819
Speaker 2: get out of it. You know, do you think you're

845
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,460
Speaker 2: going to have all the redhead murders solved by the

846
00:43:03,500 --> 00:43:06,540
Speaker 2: end of the semester? You know, what are we really

847
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: trying to do? And the students, of course, understood that

848
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,720
Speaker 2: probably would not happen. And what they said they wanted

849
00:43:13,780 --> 00:43:19,850
Speaker 2: was just one family to get the name back. Only

850
00:43:19,950 --> 00:43:22,730
Speaker 2: one of the six had a name when we started.

851
00:43:23,130 --> 00:43:23,970
Speaker 1: That's so crazy.

852
00:43:24,450 --> 00:43:26,390
Speaker 2: So just to be identified, just to help them get

853
00:43:26,430 --> 00:43:28,950
Speaker 2: a name back, much less figure out who did it

854
00:43:29,090 --> 00:43:32,489
Speaker 2: and let them have that kind of closure. And they said, Mr. Campbell,

855
00:43:32,510 --> 00:43:34,330
Speaker 2: we just got to make it aware to people. That's

856
00:43:34,410 --> 00:43:37,110
Speaker 2: what we're going to hold ourselves accountable for. So I

857
00:43:37,130 --> 00:43:39,470
Speaker 2: didn't grade them on if they solved it or identified anybody.

858
00:43:40,350 --> 00:43:42,450
Speaker 2: It was, you know, are we going to create this

859
00:43:43,090 --> 00:43:45,259
Speaker 2: profile of a killer? Are we going to have this

860
00:43:46,219 --> 00:43:48,779
Speaker 2: big press conference and get the word out? Are we

861
00:43:48,820 --> 00:43:51,020
Speaker 2: going to send stuff out to the media? That's what

862
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,500
Speaker 2: I graded them on. And that's all they wanted. They

863
00:43:53,540 --> 00:43:55,780
Speaker 2: wanted the word to get out because you can't solve

864
00:43:55,820 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: cold cases without keeping the attention on them. So you

865
00:44:00,780 --> 00:44:04,460
Speaker 2: are actually the culmination of my students' dream. They wanted

866
00:44:04,540 --> 00:44:07,710
Speaker 2: people to hear about it. and keep the word going.

867
00:44:08,250 --> 00:44:10,350
Speaker 2: So thank you for wanting to hear about it. Thank

868
00:44:10,370 --> 00:44:11,590
Speaker 2: you for honoring their wishes.

869
00:44:12,090 --> 00:44:14,870
Speaker 1: It's my honor and pleasure, honestly. And I think you're

870
00:44:15,290 --> 00:44:17,850
Speaker 1: going to be a very busy man. When did it drop?

871
00:44:19,130 --> 00:44:22,250
Speaker 2: July the 10th, 13th, something like that.

872
00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:24,690
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure you have been busy and you're going

873
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:25,270
Speaker 1: to be busy.

874
00:44:25,690 --> 00:44:27,610
Speaker 2: It's been a little overwhelming, but I haven't had a

875
00:44:27,630 --> 00:44:30,410
Speaker 2: call from the Secretary of Education or anything yet. I'm

876
00:44:31,210 --> 00:44:37,129
Speaker 2: hoping for big That's what I want. So but thank

877
00:44:37,150 --> 00:44:39,570
Speaker 2: you for keeping the word going and getting it out there.

878
00:44:40,510 --> 00:44:42,870
Speaker 2: This is how the cases will get solved. So thank you.

879
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:44,750
Speaker 2: And holding up the good work of my students.

880
00:44:45,489 --> 00:44:48,370
Speaker 1: Good for you. Really, really happy for you. Proud of

881
00:44:48,450 --> 00:44:48,780
Speaker 1: all of you.

882
00:44:49,230 --> 00:44:51,609
Speaker 2: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. It's been a real

883
00:44:51,630 --> 00:44:52,730
Speaker 2: pleasure getting to speak with you.

884
00:44:53,170 --> 00:44:54,010
Speaker 1: Thank you, Mr. Campbell.